Seeds?

[THE HERD]

How often has a team gotten seeded that did not win thier conference or has it ever happened? Just got me thinking with the UNI/Bison game this weekend, say whoever loses this game than runs the table, but is second in the conference. Is there still a chance of getting that 5th seed? UNI would be 9-2 with losses only to Iowa ST. and NDSU or NDSU would be 10-1 with only loss to N. Iowa. Couple of pretty good resumes I would say for a seed. Still a lot of season to go and who knows what happens, but just something to bs about. Another question to the people who have been in the FCS much longer than us Bison fans: Has a second place team in a conference ever gotten the seed with the first place team getting an at large??

[Go Apps]

Yes two teams from a conference have claimed top seeds - very possible - will be harder for UNI if they lose but definitely possible if NDSU loses.

[Reign of Terrier]

EWU last year? or did they share it with Montana State?

[bojeta]

EWU last year? or did they share it with Montana State?

They were co-champs

[PaladinFan]

How often has a team gotten seeded that did not win thier conference or has it ever happened? Just got me thinking with the UNI/Bison game this weekend, say whoever loses this game than runs the table, but is second in the conference. Is there still a chance of getting that 5th seed? UNI would be 9-2 with losses only to Iowa ST. and NDSU or NDSU would be 10-1 with only loss to N. Iowa. Couple of pretty good resumes I would say for a seed. Still a lot of season to go and who knows what happens, but just something to bs about. Another question to the people who have been in the FCS much longer than us Bison fans: Has a second place team in a conference ever gotten the seed with the first place team getting an at large??

It isn't often.

Take 2005. You can make a (very) strong argument that the national title game was played in Boone in the semi finals between Furman and App State. Furman was 9-2 with a win over App State. App was 8-3 with losses to LSU, Kansas, and Furman. App got the #2 seed and Furman was not seeded in favor of Hampton (who was 11-0, but played in a weak conference and promptly got bounced in the first round by four touchdowns).

Frankly, if 2005 didn't scream for Furman getting a seed (even despite not winning the conference) it may well never happen. But, there again, the rules have changed, so who knows what they will do now.

[asknoquarter21]

You would have to assume that Maine doesn't win out.

SHSU essentially has locked up a seed based on their remaining schedule.

I could see a scenerio something like this:

#1 NDSU
#2 Montana State
#3 Sam Houston State
#4 Appalachian State (assuming ASU wins out)
#5 Georgia Southern/UNI (assuming GSU wins out after losing to ASU)

Of course Maine would be in this discussion, As would Lehigh if they won out.

[blueballs]

You would have to assume that Maine doesn't win out.

SHSU essentially has locked up a seed based on their remaining schedule.

I could see a scenerio something like this:

#1 NDSU
#2 Montana State
#3 Sam Houston State
#4 Appalachian State (assuming ASU wins out)
#5 Georgia Southern/UNI (assuming GSU wins out after losing to ASU)

Of course Maine would be in this discussion, As would Lehigh if they won out.

GSU won't win out after defeating App this coming weekend... they play at Tuscaloosa on 11/19.

[blueballs]

Seems like I remember GSU and Furman being seeded 2 & 3 in 2001...

[UIWWildthing]

You would have to assume that Maine doesn't win out.

SHSU essentially has locked up a seed based on their remaining schedule.

I could see a scenerio something like this:

#1 NDSU
#2 Montana State
#3 Sam Houston State
#4 Appalachian State (assuming ASU wins out)
#5 Georgia Southern/UNI (assuming GSU wins out after losing to ASU)

Of course Maine would be in this discussion, As would Lehigh if they won out.

If Towson won out, would they be in the picture for a seed as well?

[UNH Fanboi]

How often has a team gotten seeded that did not win thier conference or has it ever happened? Just got me thinking with the UNI/Bison game this weekend, say whoever loses this game than runs the table, but is second in the conference. Is there still a chance of getting that 5th seed? UNI would be 9-2 with losses only to Iowa ST. and NDSU or NDSU would be 10-1 with only loss to N. Iowa. Couple of pretty good resumes I would say for a seed. Still a lot of season to go and who knows what happens, but just something to bs about. Another question to the people who have been in the FCS much longer than us Bison fans: Has a second place team in a conference ever gotten the seed with the first place team getting an at large??

The CAA has gotten two seeds several times. Also, in 2008 UNI got seeded over SIU even though SIU technically won the conference.

[achrist70]

In 2008 UNI and SIU both finished 7-1 in the MVFC with SIU taking the auto-bid with the head to head, but UNI got the 3 seed and SIU was left un-seeded.

[Strommer10]

I can see MSU & SHSU getting one, assuming they win out. The remaining 3 seeds will be between GSU, App St., UNI, & NDSU. 3 of those 4 will get a seed. It's hard to tell the order right now with a lot of football left to be played. It will clear up a bit after #1 @ #5 and #2 @ #3 this weekend.

[Pitz]

I have a feeling we won't see it this year unless Lehigh or SHSU stumbles down the stretch. If Montana St. and Georgia Southern (sans Alabama game) win out, I bet we'll see:

#1 NDSU/UNI Winner
#2 Georgia Southern
#3 Montana St.
#4 Sam Houston St.
#5 Lehigh

[dunbar]

If Maine beats Towson, they'll probably win out, mostly because of the one-dimensionality of New Hampshire. With that, the Bears will finish 10-1, 8-0 in the CAA, outright CAA champion, and the only loss to Pitt. That alone would result with at least a four seed.

[asknoquarter21]

I could also see a number of other scenerios involving two teams from the same conference being seeded. That is just the first that popped in my head.

I think the MVC or the Socon could do it.

If GSU beats ASU and loses to Wofford and Alabama the same scenerio might happen with Wofford and GSU although I see it as more unlikely.

I think with Towson and Maine playing each other the CAA doesn't get two seeds unless JMU could sneak in at #5 with some late season losses and Towson or Maine winning out.

[asknoquarter21]

I have a feeling we won't see it this year unless Lehigh or SHSU stumbles down the stretch. If Montana St. and Georgia Southern (sans Alabama game) win out, I bet we'll see:

#1 NDSU/UNI Winner
#2 Georgia Southern
#3 Montana St.
#4 Sam Houston St.
#5 Lehigh

Personally I think a 1 loss NDSU team should be seeded over Lehigh, but that might be just me

[asknoquarter21]

If Maine beats Towson, they'll probably win out, mostly because of the one-dimensionality of New Hampshire. With that, the Bears will finish 10-1, 8-0 in the CAA, outright CAA champion, and the only loss to Pitt. That alone would result with at least a four seed.

Maine or Towson winning out should get them a seed.

[NHwildEcat]

If Maine beats Towson, they'll probably win out, mostly because of the one-dimensionality of New Hampshire. With that, the Bears will finish 10-1, 8-0 in the CAA, outright CAA champion, and the only loss to Pitt. That alone would result with at least a four seed.

I agree, if Maine beats Towson and UNH they will have a seed. If not then they are getting screwed!

Likewise, I don't see Towson getting a seed because I am pretty confident UNH will beat them, no matter what Maine does. I also thin UNH can beat Maine as they have gotten better on the defensive side of the ball over the course of the season.

[Pitz]

Personally I think a 1 loss NDSU team should be seeded over Lehigh, but that might be just me

I agree, but the committee often seems to overvalue teams from the Patriot League.

[NHwildEcat]

Should the winner of the CAA get a seeding automatically? Under this I am assuming that neither Towson or Maine wins out and captures the league crown.

[Mountain Panther]

In 2008 UNI and SIU both finished 7-1 in the MVFC with SIU taking the auto-bid with the head to head, but UNI got the 3 seed and SIU was left un-seeded.

I'm sure quality of host facilities had something to do with that.

[asknoquarter21]

Should the winner of the CAA get a seeding automatically? Under this I am assuming that neither Towson or Maine wins out and captures the league crown.

I don't know that, I think it will come down to who and who they are against. A one loss Maine team might not beat out a one loss GSU team.

[mainejeff]

I don't know that, I think it will come down to who and who they are against. A one loss Maine team might not beat out a one loss GSU team.

Why not???.......who has the stronger schedule? Who's "Tusculum" and what division are they?

[BisonFan02]

Personally I think a 1 loss NDSU team should be seeded over Lehigh, but that might be just me

This. No way a 1 loss NDSU team misses a seed over Lehigh.

[UNHFootballAlum]

if UNH wins out do they deserve a seed? They would have beaten 6 ranked (at the time they played them) teams. Lehigh, UMASS, Richmond, Towson, JMU, and Maine

[NHwildEcat]

Why not???.......who has the stronger schedule? Who's "Tusculum" and what division are they?

The scenario I was trying to play out would be both UNH and Maine beating Towson and setting up the last game of the season as the game to decide the conference champion. Of course if Maine wins out it would be them. But if they win all but the UNH game and UNH wins out then it is a title for UNH. Would UNH have any shot at the #5 then? They would have won 2 of their final 4 against the very two teams mentioned as candidates for a seed.

[Twentysix]

Whats your attendance like? Is it like 5000? Probably not.

[mainejeff]

if UNH wins out do they deserve a seed? They would have beaten 6 ranked (at the time they played them) teams. Lehigh, UMASS, Richmond, Towson, JMU, and Maine

Yes.

[mainejeff]

Whats your attendance like? Is it like 5000? Probably not.

I guess that Montana is getting a seed then.

[van]

Can't remember a Patriot team ever getting a seed, but then my memory isn't what it used to be.

[NHwildEcat]

Whats your attendance like? Is it like 5000? Probably not.

It's more like 7,500 and when it gets cold it will be less and less. But we have hosted games before so that cannot be the only item to go on. 9-2 and CAA champs is worth a seed. If Nova was able to get seeds and they have worse attendance issues then us, we woudl desrve it under this scenario.

[van]

Attendance is not a factor in seeding, the best 5 teams (per the committee) get seeds and a home game if they post the minimum bid (I think $30K in round 2).

[NHwildEcat]

Attendance is not a factor in seeding, the best 5 teams (per the committee) get seeds and a home game if they post the minimum bid (I think $30K in round 2).

Yes, the bidding. That is what would kill UNH. There is no money in this state, let alone the athletics department.

[mainejeff]

What I'm wondering is how the CAA has turned into the NEC all of a sudden??? Me thinks if you replaced Maine, Towson, and ODU with "Delaware, JMU, and W&M".........this anti-CAA talk would take a bit of a turn.;););)..........

[mainejeff]

Attendance is not a factor in seeding, the best 5 teams (per the committee) get seeds and a home game if they post the minimum bid (I think $30K in round 2).

Thank-you!!!

Some of these dopes on here are acting as if they've changed it up all of a sudden..........

[Engineer86]

What I'm wondering is how the CAA has turned into the NEC all of a sudden??? Me thinks if you replaced Maine, Towson, and ODU with "Delaware, JMU, and W&M".........this anti-CAA talk would take a bit of a turn.;););)..........

Absolutely it would, but isn't it clear that reputation and where you start the season plays a roll in every poll. Just be thankful you get to decide it on the field. BTW, I don't know if it is really anti CAA as much as just a lack of respect for a one year showing. Do it again next year and you will see a big change because you start with your name in the mix.

[Tod]

What I'm wondering is how the CAA has turned into the NEC all of a sudden??? Me thinks if you replaced Maine, Towson, and ODU with "Delaware, JMU, and W&M".........this anti-CAA talk would take a bit of a turn.;););)..........

So odd to see what's happening in the CAA this year! Go Maine!!!

Also, Montana will win out, beating MSU in the Brawl, finish 9-2 with one of the losses to Tennessee, and get the #5 seed.

:D:D:D

[bjtheflamesfan]

I think if Maine wins out they could make a very good case for the top overall seed. Theyll be 8-0 in probably the toughest conference in America at this level and have wins over 4 ranked teams and an FBS transitional (UMass).

If they do that Id say itll pan out like this:

1. Maine
2. Georgia Southern
3. UNI/NDSU winner
4. Sam Houston State
5. UNI/NDSU loser

[LUHawker]

I agree, but the committee often seems to overvalue teams from the Patriot League.

"overvalue"???

What alternative playoff universe have you been paying attention to?

The PL rep hasn't hosted a game since 1994 and almost every year since then, the PL team has been shipped off to one of the top CAA teams. Last year was a rare exception when Lehigh had to go to UNI (and won). The prior two years, the PL reps got sent to Nova for the first round. Previous to that, Fordham and Lafayette got sent to UMass and in '05 Lafayette had to go to Boone.

The committee clearly does not do the PL champ any favors.

[mainejeff]

Absolutely it would, but isn't it clear that reputation and where you start the season plays a roll in every poll. Just be thankful you get to decide it on the field. BTW, I don't know if it is really anti CAA as much as just a lack of respect for a one year showing. Do it again next year and you will see a big change because you start with your name in the mix.

WTF are you talking about? I'm talking playoff seedings/selections......isn't that what this thread is about??? I don't think that Maine has to win NEXT season to get a playoff bid/good seed this season.

Dope.

[asumike83]

"overvalue"???

What alternative playoff universe have you been paying attention to?

The PL rep hasn't hosted a game since 1994 and almost every year since then, the PL team has been shipped off to one of the top CAA teams. Last year was a rare exception when Lehigh had to go to UNI (and won). The prior two years, the PL reps got sent to Nova for the first round. Previous to that, Fordham and Lafayette got sent to UMass and in '05 Lafayette had to go to Boone.

The committee clearly does not do the PL champ any favors.

I honestly do not follow the PL enough to have an educated opinion on how they are treated by the committee but Lehigh did host JMU in '04. Both teams had 9-2 regular season records.

[BlueHen86]

"overvalue"???

What alternative playoff universe have you been paying attention to?

The PL rep hasn't hosted a game since 1994 and almost every year since then, the PL team has been shipped off to one of the top CAA teams. Last year was a rare exception when Lehigh had to go to UNI (and won). The prior two years, the PL reps got sent to Nova for the first round. Previous to that, Fordham and Lafayette got sent to UMass and in '05 Lafayette had to go to Boone.

The committee clearly does not do the PL champ any favors.

Didn't Lehigh host JMU in 2004? I agree with your point on the PL, the committee does you no favors.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Didn't Lehigh host JMU in 2004? I agree with your point on the PL, the committee does you no favors.

Teams the PL representative(s) have faced since 1997. No conference in the country has faced a road like this, none!

1997
Colgate @ #1 seed Villanova, L 28-49

1998
Lehigh @ #3 Richmond, W 24-23
@ Umass, L 21-27 National Champ, Lehigh had 4 downs from the 10 yard line to win at the end
Colgate @ GSU, L 28-49 National Runner-up

1999
Lehigh @ Hostra L 15-27
Colgate @ Illinois State L 13-56

2000
Lehigh @ Western Illinois W 37-7
@ Delaware L 22-47

2001
Lehigh hosts Hofstra W 27-24, first time a PL hosted
@ Furman L 17-34 Furman national runner-up

2002
Fordham @ Northeastern W 29-24
@ Villanova L 10-24

2003
#4 seed Colgate hosts Umass, W 19-7
hosts Western Illinois, W 28-27
@ FAU, W 36-24, declined to host
Title game vs Delaware 0-40

2004
Lehigh hosts JMU, L 13-14, JMU National Champ
Lafayette @ Delaware, L 14-28

2005
Colgate @ UNH L 21-55
Lafayette @ App State, L 23-34, App State National Champ

2006
Lafayette @ Umass, L, 14-35, Umass National Runner-up

2007
Fordham @ Umass L 35-49

2008
Colgate @ Villanova, L 28-55

2009
Holy Cross @ Villanova, L 28-38, Villanova National Champ

2010
Lehigh @ UNI, W 14-7
@ Delaware L, 20-42, UD National Runner-up

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Can't remember a Patriot team ever getting a seed, but then my memory isn't what it used to be.

Colgate was the #4 seed in 2003. They could have hosted FAU in the semi's but declined.

[Squealofthepig]

Colgate was the #4 seed in 2003. They could have hosted FAU in the semi's but declined.

And Colgate reached the NC game that year, for anyone not paying attention.

I would say if Lehigh wins out they really should get a seed. Their only loss would be in OT to a playoff-caliber CAA team. They won all the games they were supposed to, AND only lost to a really good UNH team - what more could they do?

[Pitz]

"overvalue"???

What alternative playoff universe have you been paying attention to?

The PL rep hasn't hosted a game since 1994 and almost every year since then, the PL team has been shipped off to one of the top CAA teams. Last year was a rare exception when Lehigh had to go to UNI (and won). The prior two years, the PL reps got sent to Nova for the first round. Previous to that, Fordham and Lafayette got sent to UMass and in '05 Lafayette had to go to Boone.

The committee clearly does not do the PL champ any favors.

Playing away games against CAA teams has nothing do with the committee's valuation of Patriot League teams. It's simply geographic pairing and home games to seeds or highest bidder.

I'll concede that I misspoke with by using "often." Upon looking back, I see it was only 2004 and 2005 when the PL got controversial at-large bids. I suppose no PL teams in the quarterfinals since 2003 has since swayed perceptions.

Seeded or not, I think we can all agree that not many teams would want to face Lehigh in their first playoff game this year.

[CopperCat]

So odd to see what's happening in the CAA this year! Go Maine!!!

Also, Montana will win out, beating MSU in the Brawl, finish 9-2 with one of the losses to Tennessee, and get the #5 seed.

:D:D:D

A bit early for this, but I'll take that bet. What's your wager?

[MSUBobcat]

I would say if Lehigh wins out they really should get a seed. Their only loss would be in OT to a playoff-caliber CAA team. They won all the games they were supposed to, AND only lost to a really good UNH team - what more could they do?

I disagree with this, conditionally. I don't feel Lehigh controls their own destiny in regards to a seed. The following are hypothetical, but entirely possible, scenarios:
SoCon - If GSU wins out (not counting 'Bama), wins SoCon, only loss is to SEC powerhouse.


BSC - 'Cats win out, win the Big Sky, only loss is to FBS Utah
MVFC - assuming whoever wins this weekend wins out, NDSU/UNI get a seed; NDSU - wins MVFC, no losses, win over FBS Minn; UNI - wins MVFC, only loss to FBS Iowa State by 1.

CAA - Maine/Towson - if both win every game but the head to head... if Maine wins - win CAA, only loss is FBS Pitt; if Towson wins, win CAA, only loss to FBS Maryland; this would also mean both beat UNH, making Lehigh's loss all the more damaging

SL - SHSU wins out, winning the SL, no losses, win over FBS NM

In addition to those 5 scenarios, I could see NDSU getting a seed if they lose to UNI then win out, given that their only loss of the year was to another seeded team, especially if Lehigh's UNH OT loss is diluted by Maine and/or Towson beating UNH

IMO, Lehigh needs some help, along with running the table, to get a seed at this point. I can easily see the 4 power conference champs getting a seed, and potentially either SHSU or a 1-loss NDSU team.

[Go Apps]

You would have to assume that Maine doesn't win out.

SHSU essentially has locked up a seed based on their remaining schedule.

I could see a scenerio something like this:

#1 NDSU
#2 Montana State
#3 Sam Houston State
#4 Appalachian State (assuming ASU wins out)
#5 Georgia Southern/UNI (assuming GSU wins out after losing to ASU)

Of course Maine would be in this discussion, As would Lehigh if they won out.

I think the following would occur

#1 NDSU (assuming they win out)
#2 Appalachian State (assuming ASU wins out)
#3 Maine
#4 Montana State
#5 Sam Houston State
Georgia Southern and UNI would be in the discussion - if Maine, Mont St, Sam Houst lose I think GSU and UNI fall into place but rest assured the CAA will get a seed...Montana could win out and grab a seed as well this will all boil down to the GPI - that will be the biggest factor..right now that is in the favor of

GSU
NDSU
UNI
Montana State
Wofford

[Go Apps]

I think if Maine wins out they could make a very good case for the top overall seed. Theyll be 8-0 in probably the toughest conference in America at this level and have wins over 4 ranked teams and an FBS transitional (UMass).

If they do that Id say itll pan out like this:

1. Maine
2. Georgia Southern
3. UNI/NDSU winner
4. Sam Houston State
5. UNI/NDSU loser

The CAA can no longer say they are the toughest conference, say 3rd best this year - the GPI will push them down but they win out and yes they get a seed

[UNHFootballAlum]

I disagree with this, conditionally. I don't feel Lehigh controls their own destiny in regards to a seed. The following are hypothetical, but entirely possible, scenarios:
SoCon - If GSU wins out (not counting 'Bama), wins SoCon, only loss is to SEC powerhouse.


BSC - 'Cats win out, win the Big Sky, only loss is to FBS Utah
MVFC - assuming whoever wins this weekend wins out, NDSU/UNI get a seed; NDSU - wins MVFC, no losses, win over FBS Minn; UNI - wins MVFC, only loss to FBS Iowa State by 1.

CAA - Maine/Towson - if both win every game but the head to head... if Maine wins - win CAA, only loss is FBS Pitt; if Towson wins, win CAA, only loss to FBS Maryland; this would also mean both beat UNH, making Lehigh's loss all the more damaging

SL - SHSU wins out, winning the SL, no losses, win over FBS NM

In addition to those 5 scenarios, I could see NDSU getting a seed if they lose to UNI then win out, given that their only loss of the year was to another seeded team, especially if Lehigh's UNH OT loss is diluted by Maine and/or Towson beating UNH

IMO, Lehigh needs some help, along with running the table, to get a seed at this point. I can easily see the 4 power conference champs getting a seed, and potentially either SHSU or a 1-loss NDSU team.

If UNH runs the table they should be seeded as they would beaten 6 ranked teams

[MSUBobcat]

If UNH runs the table they should be seeded as they would beaten 6 ranked teams

Agreed. IMO, the SoCon, MVFC, CAA and BSC champs would all likely get a seed unless they all beat up on each other and finish w/ 2 or more conference losses. Throw in some one loss teams from these conferences (e.g. NDSU/UNI) and an undefeated SHSU and Lehigh can win out and still not get a seed. They need the teams ahead of them to fall before the regular season ends.

[nmatsen]

If UNI were to lose by a close margin to NDSU (and NDSU win out 11-0) and finish 9-2 I believe (not even being a homer) that to keep them un-seeded would be a travesty.

A one point loss on the road to a big XII school
A close loss to the number one team in the country on the road. (GSU is not going to beat Bama and NDSU will jump them if they beat UNI).