FBS/FCS Conference Realignment - Where will it all shake out?

[LUHawker]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more discourse on this board given the techtonic plate shifting occurring as we speak in the world of college football. The Football factories are taking their ball and pots of money and forcing a separation of the wheat from the chaf.

It appears that we could be looking at some sort of 3-tier Division I structure with 4 Mega Conferences in the upper tier, non-FBS conferences and maybe some move-ups from I-AA to the second tier and then the Poor Man's third tier.

Nova, after nearly climbing the mountain to the Big East, gets stiff-armed by Pitt, which unapologetically and promptly bolts to the ACC. The Big East is in shambles and Nova has already been told "no thanks" by the ACC. Schools that have been considering a move up, like JMU, App St. and a couple of others now have more urgency and impetus to do so.

UMass thought they made a great move, but that is looking questionable at this point. Montana not moving up, also looks short-sighted.

Questions abound, but what do schools like Delaware do? Can and would the CAA move up as a conference? And if so, to what are they moving?

The impact on FCS football is hard to predict at this point, but will be far-reaching.

And what about the Patriot League, which is still dithering around about getting schollies, or the Ivy League which is self-isolated and could be more irrelevant.

Interesting times.

[bkrownd]

UMass thought they made a great move, but that is looking questionable at this point. Montana not moving up, also looks short-sighted.


Why? The MAC isn't going anywhere, and its place in the pecking order isn't changing. If anything UMass has a better chance of eventually finding a better home among the eastern teams that have been "left behind".

[Ronbo]

With Missouri and A&M to the SEC, and the Texas and Oklahoma schools to the PAC 16. The Big 12 will likely take Boise State, Air Force, TCU and BYU. The MWC might offer Utah State and Montana invites. Much better fit for the Griz than the WAC.

[bojeta]

No reason for the FCS conferences to do anything. They're sounder financially than many FBS programs and, as an example, the Big Sky looks better than ever with the addition of Cal Poly, Davis, Southern Utah and North Dakota. Scheduling will be much easier and costs will be kept under control.
The BCS is a self-fulfilling theory. By theory I mean that they would argue "these are the best teams" and then set it up so that only those teams are allowed to play for the big prize. The big money folks in the BCS knew long ago that consolidating control of the major bowl games and fixing the conferences so that talent would be attracted to the teams that would be in the bowl games would lead to truly strong programs. They just never factored into the equation sharing any of the wealth generated with either the schools or the NCAA. The four super conferences are NOTHING but uncompensated NFL talent holding facilities. They benefit very few at the expense of what used to be COLLEGE football. They are the equivalent of the Russians and East Germans pretending to be amateurs in the old Olympic structure. This is one of the reasons I truly prefer FCS to FBS and especially BCS football. The FCS actually takes into account things like.... school pride, academic endeavor and futures beyond football!!! Imagine that!

[dgtw]

Why? The MAC isn't going anywhere, and its place in the pecking order isn't changing. If anything UMass has a better chance of eventually finding a better home among the eastern teams that have been "left behind".

Well, the only ones the MAC can peck are in the Sun Belt. ;)


Seriously, I agree UMass is better off where they are. They at least have a stable home. If the Big East survives in some form, I could see UMass being invited just to get their numbers up.

[bonarae]

No reason for the FCS conferences to do anything. They're sounder financially than many FBS programs and, as an example, the Big Sky looks better than ever with the addition of Cal Poly, Davis, Southern Utah and North Dakota. Scheduling will be much easier and costs will be kept under control.
The BCS is a self-fulfilling theory. By theory I mean that they would argue "these are the best teams" and then set it up so that only those teams are allowed to play for the big prize. The big money folks in the BCS knew long ago that consolidating control of the major bowl games and fixing the conferences so that talent would be attracted to the teams that would be in the bowl games would lead to truly strong programs. They just never factored into the equation sharing any of the wealth generated with either the schools or the NCAA. The four super conferences are NOTHING but uncompensated NFL talent holding facilities. They benefit very few at the expense of what used to be COLLEGE football. They are the equivalent of the Russians and East Germans pretending to be amateurs in the old Olympic structure. This is one of the reasons I truly prefer FCS to FBS and especially BCS football. The FCS actually takes into account things like.... school pride, academic endeavor and futures beyond football!!! Imagine that!

Agree! If this really happens, we are going to be left out of the race... xbawlingx

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Obviously, the Super Conference members will need to be decided before we know how things will trickle down to the have-nots. With perhaps 4 Super Conferences at 16 teams each (64), will the Big East/Big 12 leftovers be able to salvage BCS status and form one more Super Conference and, if so, will the PAC, BIG, SEC, and ACC let them play?

Let's check the math - There are currently 67 BCS schools (66 from Conferences plus Notre Dame) with TCU scheduled to make 68 next year. With a 64 teams system - W.Va, Baylor, Rutgers, and TCU are likely left out. Those four plus the non-AQ Conferences with Navy, Army, BYU, UMass, South Alabama, Texas St. is 54 teams.

We'll either have those 54 or 38 (If another 16 Team Super Conference is formed) to be a foundation for building the Second Tier. Now enter "strong" FCS Schools (fan support and interest in adding 22 schollies) including the start-ups in major markets like Ga St. and Charlotte. Montana, Montana St., Liberty, Old Dominion, Delaware, JMU, Youngstown, NDSU, UNI, Jax St., McNeese, App St., Ga Southern. These schools may figure in to filling holes in existing conferences or additions to new conferences with existing FBS schools. Other schools could certainly be included like Chattanooga, Citadel, W&M, SFA, Coastal, SDSU, etc.

That second tier will probably have the same relevance the Non-AQ schools now have. The new FCS will probably be just like it is with some movement to bolster conferences that lose teams.

Now for wishful thinking. There seems to be a consensus building that some type of playoff will emerge from the new structure. That playoff could expand to include At-large bid opportunities to non-AQ conferences. Taking a page from basketball, we could even see an NIT type tournament with the next 16 to 24 teams in lieu of a Bowl structure.

[rufus]

The CAA commissioner seems to think change could be coming to the conference very soon.


Yeager thinks the CAA and several other conferences could be involved in the “second wave” of changes after things settle within the BCS conferences.
...

When asked how quickly change might come, Yeager said it might not be long.

“I think it could move real rapidly,” he said. “Unfortunately, once other moves start to transpire, the pace picks up tremendously. Everyone’s kind of revved up to see what the next move may be and kind of waiting to figure out when they’re in the game.”

I think when coupled with today's statement from JMU's AD that a move to FBS is "very likely" in the next 18-24 months, it's reasonable to think that there's going to be a shake up in the CAA. The question is, if JMU, ODU, Delaware, etc. move up, what FCS schools does the CAA add for football?

http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=205274606

[jmufan]

I'm not sure about Delaware moving up, they seem way too content of being in the FCS. Interesting times for sure.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Agree! If this really happens, we are going to be left out of the race... xbawlingx

Harvard hasn't been in the race since 1956. The Ivy and the Patriot are going to plod along luxuriatingly, as they always have. Besides, the NCAA can't really do much to the Ivy and Patriot schools; after all we were the ones who started the club to begin with in 1906 and are charter members.

[superman7515]

I'm not sure about Delaware moving up, they seem way too content of being in the FCS. Interesting times for sure.

I agree. The apathetic fanbase and short-sighted administration are content at being the biggest fish in as small a bowl as they can get away with.

[Reign of Terrier]

The CAA commissioner seems to think change could be coming to the conference very soon.



I think when coupled with today's statement from JMU's AD that a move to FBS is "very likely" in the next 18-24 months, it's reasonable to think that there's going to be a shake up in the CAA. The question is, if JMU, ODU, Delaware, etc. move up, what FCS schools does the CAA add for football?

http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8500&ATCLID=205274606
W&M and Richmond go to Socon IMO

[alvinkayak6]

Has anyone been watching ESPN cover expansion recently?

Over and over again, you hear people saying, "There is no one in charge of college football," to the point where they are saying it almost reflexively.

Yet, ESPN has an entire segment called "Blueprint for Change" with a bunch of different college leaders. It's almost like the psychological phenomenon known as "spontaneous denial".

The reality is .... the closest thing we have to anyone in charge is ESPN. They have 500 million dollars worth of advertisement locked into 5 BCS games over 4 years. They have the strongest vested interest and the largest audience to project their companies philosophies overtly or subliminally.

I'm telling you ... this isn't your grandma's ESPN. This is the Brave Wide World of Disney.xshhhx

[Bogus Megapardus]

The reality is .... the closest thing we have to anyone in charge is ESPN.

xnodx

[gasoutherneagle]

Obviously, the Super Conference members will need to be decided before we know how things will trickle down to the have-nots. With perhaps 4 Super Conferences at 16 teams each (64), will the Big East/Big 12 leftovers be able to salvage BCS status and form one more Super Conference and, if so, will the PAC, BIG, SEC, and ACC let them play?

Let's check the math - There are currently 67 BCS schools (66 from Conferences plus Notre Dame) with TCU scheduled to make 68 next year. With a 64 teams system - W.Va, Baylor, Rutgers, and TCU are likely left out. Those four plus the non-AQ Conferences with Navy, Army, BYU, UMass, South Alabama, Texas St. is 54 teams.

We'll either have those 54 or 38 (If another 16 Team Super Conference is formed) to be a foundation for building the Second Tier. Now enter "strong" FCS Schools (fan support and interest in adding 22 schollies) including the start-ups in major markets like Ga St. and Charlotte. Montana, Montana St., Liberty, Old Dominion, Delaware, JMU, Youngstown, NDSU, UNI, Jax St., McNeese, App St., Ga Southern. These schools may figure in to filling holes in existing conferences or additions to new conferences with existing FBS schools. Other schools could certainly be included like Chattanooga, Citadel, W&M, SFA, Coastal, SDSU, etc.

That second tier will probably have the same relevance the Non-AQ schools now have. The new FCS will probably be just like it is with some movement to bolster conferences that lose teams.

Now for wishful thinking. There seems to be a consensus building that some type of playoff will emerge from the new structure. That playoff could expand to include At-large bid opportunities to non-AQ conferences. Taking a page from basketball, we could even see an NIT type tournament with the next 16 to 24 teams in lieu of a Bowl structure.

MAN, I've got a B A D feeling that under current Athletic Dept. leadership: this grand opportunity to sell the program to BCS conferences will wither on the vine while we sit on the sideline holding our privates. Appy is gonna leave and we get stuck with the P R I V A T E S... wondering woulda, coulda, shoulda!

[Spiderbone]

xnodx

for true, true dat.....

The CAA in basketball has been looking for some cred for years outside of GMU's and VCU's runs to the final four. This might be a time when those schools in the CAA (because of the BASKETBALL aspect) look to merge with the BIG EAST and finally get that credibility........and in time bring Football in the loop. The interesting anomaly is Richmond (which obviously I am partial to), which plays in the A-10 in every other sport but football, where (if i remember correctly) the other schools are full CAA in all sports. Richmond will NOT go up to the next level IMHO, it just doesn't make sense for a private school with 3000+/- enrollment. Stranger things have happened though. If the CAA is gutted, Richmond will be forced into either the Patriot league or the Southern conference as the CAA would be effectively dead. I don't think Richmond will do that because that would actually be a step DOWN in terms of basketball (on that note our football teams have been good recently, but basketball has always been the go to Sort on campus). On the other hand If the Big East raids the A-10 like some are expecting to bring back its basketball focus, Richmond MAY be forced to go into the Big East all sports (with football ending up like Duke in the ACC, Vandy in the SEC or Rice out west.)

Frankly, in spite of all of that above I hope it all stays exactly the same OR (dreaming) plays out like this.....

The whole CAA moves up together and adds some or all of the schools remaining in the Big East and possibly some from the Southern conference to form, if you will a large Division I conference. I think the CAA in this respect has even more bargaining power than the Big East as it could be the savior in a sense to the Big East and keep it regional and solvent. I don't see why this couldn't happen if everything else just stayed the same except the name

[JmuSkinsfan]

Honestly ... a lot of those lower-tiered FBS teams are struggling to break even ... I wouldn't be surprised if there became the Super BCS (64 teams) and the rest ... a combination of lower-tiered FBS and upper-tiered FCS schools ... but having the FCS number of scholarships ... 63 ... to save money.

[veinup]

kinda wish UM had moved up. still love the hell outta the BSC though.. can't wait for the new members!

[Spiderbone]

Harvard hasn't been in the race since 1956. The Ivy and the Patriot are going to plod along luxuriatingly, as they always have. Besides, the NCAA can't really do much to the Ivy and Patriot schools; after all we were the ones who started the club to begin with in 1906 and are charter members.

With that in mind I say "screw the FBS and all of us stay exactly where we are". We are better off with what we have in the FCS today that any time in the past. If JMU, Appy, Villanova or GSU think that they are going to move up to the FBS and make any waves they are delusional. The will be in the same boat with all of the leftovers in the FBS now, no shot at BIG football and comparative competition (that they have now in the FCS) as those leftovers get less and less of the pie. Oh yeah and no chance EVER at a national championship, no chance at playoffs and no chance to make an impact in the shadow of the 64 team PROFESSIONAL COLLEGE FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

[Spiderbone]

Honestly ... a lot of those lower-tiered FBS teams are struggling to break even ... I wouldn't be surprised if there became the Super BCS (64 teams) and the rest ... a combination of lower-tiered FBS and upper-tiered FCS schools ... but having the FCS number of scholarships ... 63 ... to save money.

I think you hit the nail on the head. All of the teams that aren't in with the 64 will essentially be NON-BCS....ie not eligible for the BCS championship, and as far as everyone else is concerned NOT Division I Football.

[TheBisonator]

If NDSU winds back up in the same division as Minnesota State-Moorhead and Minot State, I will barf for days.

[NHwildEcat]

You guys here that UNH is going to the SEC? No!?! Yeah me neither...

At this point there is so much going on that it is actually overshadowing the current season and that is sad really. I don't know what is going to happen, all I know is that UNH will not be players in any of this sorta talk and I just hope that we can continue to play the teams I have grown to love to play against!

[Bogus Megapardus]

You guys here that UNH is going to the SEC? No!?! Yeah me neither...

At this point there is so much going on that it is actually overshadowing the current season and that is sad really. I don't know what is going to happen, all I know is that UNH will not be players in any of this sorta talk and I just hope that we can continue to play the teams I have grown to love to play against!

You could learn to love us, too, NHwildEcat! xlovex

[Pard4Life]

Just watching ESPN... reports out of the Big East meeting in NYC tonight have the BE considering adding Army, Navy, Air Force as members. The Patriot League would be dead. We would have to merge with another league. Georgetown football would be in the Pioneer.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just watching ESPN... reports out of the Big East meeting in NYC tonight have the BE considering adding Army, Navy, Air Force as members. The Patriot League would be dead. We would have to merge with another league. Georgetown football would be in the Pioneer.

I hope that's not the "big news" that Reinhard was talking about. Besides, Army and Navy can't even beat Lafayette in basketball. How are they going to compete in the Big East?

But you're right - if Army and Navy leave the Patriot, we're sunk.

[NHwildEcat]

I hope that's not the "big news" that Reinhard was talking about. Besides, Army and Navy can't even beat Lafayette in basketball. How are they going to compete in the Big East?

But you're right - if Army and Navy leave the Patriot, we're sunk.

Enter UNH & Maine once the rest of the CAA moves past us...

[Bogus Megapardus]

Enter UNH & Maine once the rest of the CAA moves past us...

Hey, if it means games as exciting as the Lehigh-UNH overtime game, why not? Fans got their money's worth at that one.

[Pard4Life]

I am reading, from old news ie last spring, it would be football only. Isn't it forbidden to have your school join a league for one sport if the new league sponsors all sports? But then again Army joined and left CUSA during the PL era for football so maybe I am jumping a bit here...

[Bogus Megapardus]

The national media seem to assume - and are in fact reporting - that Army and Navy may simply pick up and join the Big East (in football) any time they want.

The PL by-laws read as follows:

"If a regular member institution sponsors a sport for which the League conducts a championship or regular in-season competition, the member institution must participate in the League competition unless an exemption from participation has been approved in advance by a majority of the Council of Presidents. The following criteria for an exemption shall apply . . .

(3) The institution will not align its program with another Division I conference . . . . "

Army and Navy have such "exemptions," but the quoted language would seem to prohibit them from joining the Big East (or any other conference) for football (they can be Independents, of course). Perhaps the writers/ESPN folks should be reading the Lafayette Message Board!

[DFW HOYA]

Just watching ESPN... reports out of the Big East meeting in NYC tonight have the BE considering adding Army, Navy, Air Force as members. The Patriot League would be dead. We would have to merge with another league. Georgetown football would be in the Pioneer.

You're quick with the Pioneer, huh? No one wants this.

In reality, the PL presidents would simply amend the bylaws to give the academies football-only privileges in the BE (they don't want to move all sports anyway) about the same time it discontinues the I-AA league after Colgate accepted a football-only offer from the CAA.

[alvinkayak6]

Nobody wants it. But what other choices are there? The PFL has stability now with new teams starting football all the time. Mercer and Stetson are joining the league. I've heard rumors on here about Houston-Baptist, Detroit, Mercy (spelling?), Kennesaw State, and others. The PFL could be a 16 team league with an autobid and a ton of good bball schools. Is it really THAT bad? Okay...maybe it is.

[alvinkayak6]

Just watching ESPN... reports out of the Big East meeting in NYC tonight have the BE considering adding Army, Navy, Air Force as members. The Patriot League would be dead. We would have to merge with another league. Georgetown football would be in the Pioneer.

Honestly, the news flies out so fast, it's hard to keep up. I think the nail in the coffin was The Longhorn Network, which didn't sit well in Aggieland. Nebraska was a huge moving stone, but ESPN/TLN did it in.

[SumItUp]

After tonight's vote, the Pac-12 is sticking to 12 schools.

http://newsok.com/article/3606182

[alvinkayak6]

Oh wow.....that comes as a huge surprise to me. Texas to the ACC?

[alvinkayak6]

Maybe Berkeley, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, UCLA, and ASU were afraid of moving 4 steps down the football ladder behind Oklahoma, Texas, TTU, and Oklahoma State.

[alvinkayak6]

Yah, this throws a huge wrench in the Oklahoma Sooners plans. Maybe they look to the SEC now. I think it's crazy, but then again, look at how UT and OU get along (or rather don't get along) with their conferencemates.

[Pard4Life]

You're quick with the Pioneer, huh? No one wants this.

In reality, the PL presidents would simply amend the bylaws to give the academies football-only privileges in the BE (they don't want to move all sports anyway) about the same time it discontinues the I-AA league after Colgate accepted a football-only offer from the CAA.

Maybe an exemption would not come so fast... wouldnt Army and Navy have access to much more revenue from the new TV contract? Or because of their special status, maybe it doesn't matter?

[Pard4Life]

Oh wow.....that comes as a huge surprise to me. Texas to the ACC?

Nobody wants Texas... not even the Big 12... the Longhorn network is a real albatross since it is a money printing machine for Texas. They don't want to share revenue. Who wants that deal? They win I lose? Or they win we lose?

This is all ESPN's fault... well really, the Big10 network's fault. Well... it's really George Stienbrenner and the Yankees' fault.

[fc97]

the fbs leftovers will be forced with what remains of the current fcs. no differentiation to be made between anything else. an akron to app to gardner-webb is nothing but second rate compared to the 4 or 5 super conferences and they will be and the second tier as a whole..

it is about money. if you can afford 63 scholarships, you can afford more with creative athletics. pretty much, that would show the way to an alliance with southern, ohio valley, southland, big sky, colonial, mac, sun belt, conference usa, missouri valley and maybe the meac with the common goal and the ones shown to afford it but are purposely left out of the big programs bucket.

you'll see some movement of school wanting to be in the better conference as the big sky, colonial and southern won't be tops anymore, schools like app, gsu, odu, georgia state, uncc, jacksonville state will start jockying for position in other conferences. this will still cause all sorts of movement.

that then leaves the question of what would be done the northeast conference, patriot, ivy, pioneer and swac schools that are either not funding programs, not funding full scholarship programs or and not participating with the greater vision of everyone else.

[AppMan]

After last night's meeting the BE is putting on a happy face and enforcing the conference's 27 month notice agreement holding on to Syracuse and Pit until the 2014-15 academic year. Rutgers and Uconn are still a very attractive plum for the ACC. Think there are more moves to come.

[NHwildEcat]

Hey, if it means games as exciting as the Lehigh-UNH overtime game, why not? Fans got their money's worth at that one.

That was a great game. I guess I could make that drive down every other year if it ever comes down to it...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This week, I was hoping to work on a series of postings hyping up the matchup of two (or maybe even three) Payton Award possibilities. Now, I'm going to have to make calls and emails to the Patriot League office, West Point and Annapolis, to see if the Patriot League will survive.

All this and Asa Chapman, too. Since when did I start writing about everything except what's happening on the field? xslapfightx xpissedx

[DFW HOYA]

This week, I was hoping to work on a series of postings hyping up the matchup of two (or maybe even three) Payton Award possibilities. Now, I'm going to have to make calls and emails to the Patriot League office, West Point and Annapolis, to see if the Patriot League will survive.

From an ESPN article on the subject, the salient issue for the PL:

"To receive an automatic bid, a conference must meet several requirements: It must be composed of at least seven members that offer men's and women's basketball, and there must be continuity in membership, meaning that seven of the members must have played together for at least eight years."

If USMA and USNA join for football only, the PL is secure. I've read nothing that suggest the academies are trying to move all its programs, many of which would be at a severe disadvantage.

I would be very interested in reading anything you could uncover over Paul Reinhard's comments, however.

[Franks Tanks]

From an ESPN article on the subject, the salient issue for the PL:

"To receive an automatic bid, a conference must meet several requirements: It must be composed of at least seven members that offer men's and women's basketball, and there must be continuity in membership, meaning that seven of the members must have played together for at least eight years."

If USMA and USNA join for football only, the PL is secure. I've read nothing that suggest the academies are trying to move all its programs, many of which would be at a severe disadvantage.

I would be very interested in reading anything you could uncover over Paul Reinhard's comments, however.

Army and Navy barely compete in PL basketball. Every kid goes for free, and they recruit more players than regualr schoalrships schools can. Moving basketball, and other sports, out of the PL would be a terrible decision for the academies.

[superman7515]

West Virginia is staying in the Big East after both the SEC and ACC turned them down...

CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32130111)


With the uncertainty of the future of the Big East, it's no secret several schools are seeking conference membership elsewhere. West Virginia, however, appears like it will remain in the league as Big East sources told CBSSports.com that the Mountaineers will not be accepted into either the Atlantic Coast Conference or Southeastern Conference.

WVU had enquired with both leagues, but WVU officials told representatives of the Big East those overtures had been denied and they were remaining in the Big East.

[Franks Tanks]

West Virginia is staying in the Big East after both the SEC and ACC turned them down...

CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/32130111)

It looks like the Big 12 and Big East will continue on, and add a few schools. As of right now anyway.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It looks like the Big 12 and Big East will continue on, and add a few schools. As of right now anyway.

Temple and UMass? If that indeed happens, UMass' move looks like a stroke of genius.

[superman7515]

Temple and UMass? If that indeed happens, UMass' move looks like a stroke of genius.

They're saying all or some combination of Army, Navy, East Carolina, and Central Florida.

[alvinkayak6]

Thanks, superman. You are good at this reporting thing. I like

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's still my understanding that the Patriot League by-laws do not allow Army and Navy to participate in FBS football other than as independents. They may not belong to another football conference, despite what the Disney Corporation might assume at the moment.

The academies might well seek and gain an exception for this at a meeting of the Patriot League presidents, but they are not free simply to join Big East football. I highly doubt that the Academy Commandants will just thumb their noses at the PL and do whatever they choose, even though ESPN seems to think that "would be OK."

[DFW HOYA]

It's still my understanding that the Patriot League by-laws do not allow Army and Navy to participate in FBS football other than as independents. They may not belong to another football conference, despite what the national press might assume at the moment. The academies might well seek and gain an exception for this at a meeting of the Patriot League presidents, but they are not free simply to join Big East football.

Well then, the PL has a choice: amend the bylaws and let the academies play Big East ball, or hold true to their bylaws and send the academies away, eliminating the NCAA autobid and rendering the six team conference defunct. In any other conference, the decision would be obvious.

[alvinkayak6]

Oh, wow. If that's true, megapardus, then the FCS is clearly relevant in this whole picture!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well then, the PL has a choice: amend the bylaws and let the academies play Big East ball, or hold true to their bylaws and send the academies away, eliminating the NCAA autobid and rendering the six team conference defunct. In any other conference, the decision would be obvious.


I'm sure that the PL presidents would allow it - but I'm also certain that one or more of the PL presidents might have some constructive input about the issue as well. It's just annoying to have the Disney Corporation simply to assume that the Patriot League does not exist, or that Army and Navy may disregard their current conference obligations at the behest of Big Media.

[Reign of Terrier]

Air Force wouldn't go to the Big East. If I was the Big East/12 I would look to CUSA for teams. UCF, Memphis, East Carolina, SMU, and Houston all offer $$$ and are very competitive teams nowadays. If the Big 12 tries to stabilize look for them to look at maybe SMU, Houston, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, maybe even UTEP or TCU form the Big East. I would bet now that Pitt and Syracuse are gone that the Big East would look at a bunch of those CUSA teams for sure

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh, wow. If that's true, megapardus, then the FCS is clearly relevant in this whole picture!

Even the silly little Patriot League. Imagine that.

[Smitty]

Air Force wouldn't go to the Big East. If I was the Big East/12 I would look to CUSA for teams. UCF, Memphis, East Carolina, SMU, and Houston all offer $$$ and are very competitive teams nowadays. If the Big 12 tries to stabilize look for them to look at maybe SMU, Houston, Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, maybe even UTEP or TCU form the Big East. I would bet now that Pitt and Syracuse are gone that the Big East would look at a bunch of those CUSA teams for sure

Then the CUSA and Mountain West merge into one suck fest and the world ends in Dec 2012 making all of this irrelevant.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm sure that the PL presidents would allow it - but I'm also certain that one or more of the PL presidents might have some constructive input about the issue as well. It's just annoying to have the Disney Corporation simply to assume that the Patriot League does not exist, or that Army and Navy may disregard their current conference obligations at the behest of Big Media.

Come on, Bogus, football has always been separate for the Academies from PL football. After all, they're FBS independents now, and have always ever been. I understand your point, but since the PL presidents have always given them an exeception, why would they stop now? Especially when, as was pointed out by DFW, if they hold to principle there, in essence, won't be any League?

[alvinkayak6]

Bonus, I'm going to add you as a friend! Good work!

Edit: you / your

[alvinkayak6]

Then the CUSA and Mountain West merge into one suck fest and the world ends in Dec 2012 making all of this irrelevant.

Do they play football on Planet X?xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Come on, Bogus, football has always been separate for the Academies from PL football. After all, they're FBS independents now, and have always ever been. I understand your point, but since the PL presidents have always given them an exeception, why would they stop now? Especially when, as was pointed out by DFW, if they hold to principle there, in essence, won't be any League?

I'm sure they'd get the exemption. What irritates me is how ESPN and its pals disregard even the need for it. Why not report that the Commandants of the Service Academies will have to "petition for an exemption at a meeting of the Patriot League Council of Presidents?" Why disregard the PL as a complete irrelevance, just because it's not on the Disney Corp. radar?

[alvinkayak6]

Bogus, preach it, brother! Disney ruined something that started as a beautiful entrepreneurial experiment. Do people care enough about sports to have 24/7 news coverage. It evolved into reality TV, corporate back-patting, sensationalism, conflict-driven reporting, good-looking people, propaganda, and general Disney cross-promotion. The sad thing is that the lines of news reporting (which constitutes about 30 minutes of the day) are blurred with their corporate editorialism, which confuses audiences. They don't even realize that people are being told what to say based upon ESPN's interests.

[alvinkayak6]

^^^ Best example of said cross-promotion was live commentators talking about Desperate Housewives premier just seconds before announcing 3rd down call. #Notevenjoking

[superman7515]

It's still my understanding that the Patriot League by-laws do not allow Army and Navy to participate in FBS football other than as independents. They may not belong to another football conference, despite what the Disney Corporation might assume at the moment.

The academies might well seek and gain an exception for this at a meeting of the Patriot League presidents, but they are not free simply to join Big East football. I highly doubt that the Academy Commandants will just thumb their noses at the PL and do whatever they choose, even though ESPN seems to think that "would be OK."

The Big East reportedly had Navy convinced to go in as an all-sports member, BUT once Syracuse and Pitt left, Navy has backed off some.

[superman7515]

After all, they're FBS independents now, and have always ever been.

Army wasn't.

[Franks Tanks]

The Big East reportedly had Navy convinced to go in as an all-sports member, BUT once Syracuse and Pitt left, Navy has backed off some.

Really, Navy playing BE basketball?

I think the BE would love to dump schools like DePaul and Seton Hall, and are not interested in adding schools that don't win PL championships in basketball on a regular basis.

[Pard4Life]

Maybe BE inclusion for football is a good thing in that we all get a cut of the BCS money and TV revenue. Any ideas on how Army/Navy deals contribute to PL revenue dispersal? LFN I'm looking your way...

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maybe BE inclusion for football is a good thing in that we all get a cut of the BCS money and TV revenue. Any ideas on how Army/Navy deals contribute to PL revenue dispersal? LFN I'm looking your way...

Like I said, the Academies are going to have to run all of this by the PL presidents before they can do anything . . .

[Franks Tanks]

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/big_east_will_look_to_add_navy.html

Star-Ledger reporting Air Force and Navy may join the BE as football only members. Army is very reluctant to do so. No matter what happens with the service academy football programs, there appears to be no talk of them joining the BE in any sport other than football.

I love service academy football, and I think this will be a big mistake.

[Bogus Megapardus]

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/big_east_will_look_to_add_navy.html

I love service academy football, and I think this will be a big mistake.

So do I, and I cannot fathom how Big East football will benefit either of them.

[Pard4Life]

Agreed but Air Force conference affiliation has seemed to work fine.

[Franks Tanks]

So do I, and I cannot fathom how Big East football will benefit either of them.

Rutgers fans are pissed, and I agree with them. Rutgers is still pretty medicore, but they are really making an effort to get better.

Fans of the decent BE football teams like WVU and UCONN must also be quite upset.

[Franks Tanks]

Agreed but Air Force conference affiliation has seemed to work fine.

Very true. Navy may be able to make it work if they continue to get great coaching. However, it wasn't all that long ago that Navy was going 1-10 or 2-9 every year. It seems to me that they will contend at times in the BE, but will lose their unique ability to play a national schedule.

[Pard4Life]

Rutgers and UConn should go to the ACC... the new Big East is going to be a joke and nothing but a step above the MAC or CUSA... if you are a recruit do you want to play for any of these schools, against these teams? Especially if a BCS bid is not retained.

Of course Rutgers can come back to its roots and fight for the cannon once again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/big_east_will_look_to_add_navy.html

Star-Ledger reporting Air Force and Navy may join the BE as football only members. Army is very reluctant to do so. No matter what happens with the service academy football programs, there appears to be no talk of them joining the BE in any sport other than football.

I love service academy football, and I think this will be a big mistake.


The Big East's first move to re-invent itself will be to try to add Navy and Air Force as football-playing members only -- with the hope Army will then join -- with Temple or Villanova as options as well, according to two college officials.

Interesting.

[Seawolf97]

Interesting.

The NY Post reported tonight Navy is in . Not sure if it would all sports or just football. I cant see Navy playing basketball against some of the remaining BE schools without a major overhaul.

[DFW HOYA]

Of course Rutgers can come back to its roots and fight for the cannon once again.

William Dowling was tilting at that windmill for years.

"Dowling suggested Rutgers move to the Patriot League, where football scholarships and redshirting are not allowed. The Patriot League echoes the Rutgers 1000's sentiments on athletics, believing sports are only a small piece of the overall educational experience. Athletics are not emphasized heavily nor entirely ignored. Athletes in the Patriot League must be representative of the other students in their schools. Each university reports all of its athletes' academic information to the conference before the athletes are allowed to compete.

"We view athletics as an important part of education," Patriot League executive director Carolyn Schile Femovich said. "In no way will we compromise academic integrity for athletics."

Rutgers would hardly fit in the Patriot League, though. All of the league's members are small and, with the exception of the U.S. Naval and U.S. Military academies, private universities. Rutgers is the public state university of New Jersey. It has an enrollment of more than 26,000 at its main campus. The school is so large it's broken up into four smaller campuses across New Brunswick and Piscataway, N.J.

Femovich said no one from Rutgers has ever talked to her about joining the Patriot League, and it's doubtful RU would gain admission if it applied."

http://www.dailyorange.com/2.8655/rutgers-1000-fights-big-spending-as-focus-drifts-from-academics-1.1240226

[Seawolf97]

William Dowling was tilting at that windmill for years.

"Dowling suggested Rutgers move to the Patriot League, where football scholarships and redshirting are not allowed. The Patriot League echoes the Rutgers 1000's sentiments on athletics, believing sports are only a small piece of the overall educational experience. Athletics are not emphasized heavily nor entirely ignored. Athletes in the Patriot League must be representative of the other students in their schools. Each university reports all of its athletes' academic information to the conference before the athletes are allowed to compete.

"We view athletics as an important part of education," Patriot League executive director Carolyn Schile Femovich said. "In no way will we compromise academic integrity for athletics."

Rutgers would hardly fit in the Patriot League, though. All of the league's members are small and, with the exception of the U.S. Naval and U.S. Military academies, private universities. Rutgers is the public state university of New Jersey. It has an enrollment of more than 26,000 at its main campus. The school is so large it's broken up into four smaller campuses across New Brunswick and Piscataway, N.J.

Femovich said no one from Rutgers has ever talked to her about joining the Patriot League, and it's doubtful RU would gain admission if it applied."

http://www.dailyorange.com/2.8655/rutgers-1000-fights-big-spending-as-focus-drifts-from-academics-1.1240226

Rutgers would be more than a nice add on to any conference. They are much too big and establised as a BCS school to move to FCS at this stage of the game. I think they are a prime target for either the Big 10 or the ACC with their New York presence.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The NY Post reported tonight Navy is in . Not sure if it would all sports or just football. I cant see Navy playing basketball against some of the remaining BE schools without a major overhaul.


How would that work - Navy joining the Big East in all sports? The press hasn't noticed yet, but the Midshipman actually DO have an existing all-sports conference affiliation - one that they have been in for 20 years. I haven't heard that Navy was the least bit dissatisfied with it, either.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Rutgers would hardly fit in the Patriot League, though. All of the league's members are small and, with the exception of the U.S. Naval and U.S. Military academies, private universities.

Hey, the Middle Three Conference, which existed from the 1930s through the 1970s, is a direct ancestor of the Patriot League! Rutgers, Lehigh and Lafayette played every year. Blood is thicker than water, I say.

I always admired that Rutgers 1000 guy. The University really launched a character assassination against him, too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How would that work - Navy joining the Big East in all sports? The press hasn't noticed yet, but the Midshipman actually DO have an existing all-sports conference affiliation - one that they have been in for 20 years. I haven't heard that Navy was the least bit dissatisfied with it, either.

I have verified that the talk of Big East conference membership for Navy in this matter is football-only. Keeping my fingers crossed that there will be a lot more to come about this - Friday.

[superman7515]

East Carolina was often referenced as a reason that App State would be interested in C-USA. How does this affect their interest?

East Carolina Applies To Big East (http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/22/1507857/east-carolina-applies-to-big-east.html)


GREENVILLE -- East Carolina has sent a letter of application to join the Big East.

In a joint statement Wednesday, Chancellor Steve Ballard and athletic director Terry Holland said the school will "maintain a proactive approach" in dealing with uncertainty about conference realignment.

The school sent its application Tuesday and it arrived at the Big East offices Wednesday, athletic department spokesman Tom McClellan said.

East Carolina's interest in the Big East has simmered in the background in recent years, though the announced departures of Pittsburgh and Syracuse from the Big East to the ACC might finally open the door for such a move....

[TheRevSFA]

What does ECU actually bring to the BE?

[appfan2008]

What does ECU actually bring to the BE?

farm land and nothing else...

[fc97]

farm land and nothing else...

east carolina brings the three metropolitan areas of north carolina to the big east. east carolina would take a hit in competition for their other good program, baseball. if the big east wants better mid atlantic exposure then east carolina would be a good choice.

the big east is about to turn into the new conference usa.

[The Moody1]

East Carolina was often referenced as a reason that App State would be interested in C-USA. How does this affect their interest?

East Carolina Applies To Big East (http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/09/22/1507857/east-carolina-applies-to-big-east.html)


East Carolina has already been denied by the Big East.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/big_east_will_look_to_add_navy.html


"Though East Carolina, Houston and Memphis have been the other Conference USA schools mentioned in connection with the Big East — East Carolina sent a letter of application this week — they were rejected as options during Tuesday’s meeting."

[superman7515]

Strange that they would make a public statement Wednesday and their application would arrive Wednesday if they were already denied Tuesday.

[The Moody1]

I thought it was a little strange as well. It looks like they got about as much consideration as App would if they applied to the ACC.

[bostonspider]

I think that Rutgers would just fit in perfectly in the PL. Can you imagine the crowds for RU-Georgetown in Rutgers Stadium

http://blog.pennlive.com/lvsports/2007/08/rutgersstadium.JPG

[StorminASU]

http://www.rockmnation.com/2011/9/19/2436901/portraits-of-conference-realignment

I can't remember if I saw this on this site or not, but it bears repeating if I did. This is hilarious

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I thought it was a little strange as well. It looks like they got about as much consideration as App would if they applied to the ACC.

Which should tell all small market schools that the "highest level" of classification has a lot more to do with what kind of TV Ratings can be generated and very little to do with the quality of the product a school puts on the field. East Carolina is my perfect example for FCS schools wanting to move up. ECU has a respectable football program with good attendance and donor support (we've had a few people at Ga Southern with previous affiliation at ECU) but they're in nowhere Greenville, NC in the shadow of NC State.

Still, they're better off than any FCS Directional U and it should be noted that ECU chose to be a 1-A Independent for 18 years instead of classifying as 1-AA in 1978 like their SoCon brethren. ECU has @ 14,000 donors and average nearly 50,000 in football attendance with a $26 million athletics budget. Enrollment is @25-26K.

ECU will never be one of the "Big Boys" (nor should they be), but I'd like to see my Georgia Southern get to at least their level and that's good enough for me.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think that Rutgers would just fit in perfectly in the PL. Can you imagine the crowds for RU-Georgetown in Rutgers Stadium


Until quite recently, Rutgers had a very FCS-like facility. In fact, it resembled Lafayette's Fisher Field in some respects:

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/BigEast/Rutgers/interior2.jpg


And until 1994, it was a decidedly Patriot League-like facility:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5849/rutgers.jpg

Sort of like Lehigh's present Goodman Stadium. Just right for those "Middle Three" contests.

[Go...gate]

Just watching ESPN... reports out of the Big East meeting in NYC tonight have the BE considering adding Army, Navy, Air Force as members. The Patriot League would be dead. We would have to merge with another league. Georgetown football would be in the Pioneer.

Just saw this. Ouch.

[DFW HOYA]

Until quite recently, Rutgers had a very FCS-like facility. In fact, it resembled Lafayette's Fisher Field in some respects:


Well, there were days when WVU's Mountaineer Field could have passed for Taylor Stadium, too:

http://images.scripts.wvu.edu/ecards/fullsize/oldmntrfld_20050531104710.jpg

The difference: these schools stepped up. The PL schools stepped aside.

[Go...gate]

I'm sure they'd get the exemption. What irritates me is how ESPN and its pals disregard even the need for it. Why not report that the Commandants of the Service Academies will have to "petition for an exemption at a meeting of the Patriot League Council of Presidents?" Why disregard the PL as a complete irrelevance, just because it's not on the Disney Corp. radar?

Because they probably know what we know - that the PL COP's will kick the can down the road, like they do with everything.

[Go...gate]

Well, there were days when WVU's Mountaineer Field could have passed for Taylor Stadium, too:

http://images.scripts.wvu.edu/ecards/fullsize/oldmntrfld_20050531104710.jpg

The difference: these schools stepped up. The PL schools stepped aside.

We didn't step aside. We're not state schools like RU and WVU. And it took RU YEARS to persuade the NJ legislature to provide some funding for the upgrade of Rutgers Stadium. In fact, if you look closely, there is a cadre of RU people who never wanted the Big East, but wanted to continue the University's historic relationships with the Ivy and Patriot League schools which comprised the bulk of RU's opponents in ALL sports for over 110 years.

[Go...gate]

Until quite recently, Rutgers had a very FCS-like facility. In fact, it resembled Lafayette's Fisher Field in some respects:

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/BigEast/Rutgers/interior2.jpg


And until 1994, it was a decidedly Patriot League-like facility:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5849/rutgers.jpg

Sort of like Lehigh's present Goodman Stadium. Just right for those "Middle Three" contests.

Right. Rutgers Stadium opened in 1938, when Rutgers was still a private school. The lower photo is of the first generation stadium from about 1984, when the official capacity was 23,000, and the upper photo from about 1995, when the Stadium was first remodeled to seat 41,500. In a natural ravine across the Raritan River in Piscataway, it was a great place to watch college football on a fall day. I saw a lot of games there with my brother and late father, including the 1969 College Football Centennial Game, which drew an overflow crowd of nearly 30,000 to the ballpark and national ABC-TV coverage.

[URMite]

How would that work - Navy joining the Big East in all sports? The press hasn't noticed yet, but the Midshipman actually DO have an existing all-sports conference affiliation - one that they have been in for 20 years. I haven't heard that Navy was the least bit dissatisfied with it, either.

Have they been gone from the CAA that long? My how time files...

[URMite]

East Carolina has already been denied by the Big East.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/09/big_east_will_look_to_add_navy.html


"Though East Carolina, Houston and Memphis have been the other Conference USA schools mentioned in connection with the Big East — East Carolina sent a letter of application this week — they were rejected as options during Tuesday’s meeting."

I heard that this is ECU's 27th application to the Big East, is that right?

[alvinkayak6]

The ACC: When it rains, it pours. Applications all the way from Villanova to Texas.

"Hi, my name is Villanova. Please let me explain why my little school -20k stadium team should be chosen over Texas, which makes 130 million $ per year."

[Pard4Life]

We didn't step aside. We're not state schools like RU and WVU. And it took RU YEARS to persuade the NJ legislature to provide some funding for the upgrade of Rutgers Stadium. In fact, if you look closely, there is a cadre of RU people who never wanted the Big East, but wanted to continue the University's historic relationships with the Ivy and Patriot League schools which comprised the bulk of RU's opponents in ALL sports for over 110 years.

The upgrade to FCS football and becoming a state school destroyed Rutgers. It use to be very reputable with many high quality academic departments. The evidence is in the Lafayette alumni building... a row of pennants of Ivy and PL schools from the 1950s includes Rutgers... shocking.

[Twentysix]

PL merges with bigsouth or nec or PFL?

[Bogus Megapardus]

The upgrade to FCS football and becoming a state school destroyed Rutgers. It use to be very reputable with many high quality academic departments. The evidence is in the Lafayette alumni building... a row of pennants of Ivy and PL schools from the 1950s includes Rutgers... shocking.

Not so shocking at all. Rutgers absolutely was a peer in all respects - considered that way by all. Now, of course, it's a freakin' slum. And that's really sad.



Well, there were days when WVU's Mountaineer Field could have passed for Taylor Stadium, too.

I remember the last game there as a young'un. Before the "downgrade" to Goodman, of course . . .



http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8743/taylor1972400.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

PL merges with bigsouth or nec or PFL?

PL prexies would sooner fall on their swords. We commenced life as a pet project of the Ivy, and they all seem to want to keep it that way.

[Twentysix]

Your conference are all whores.

I love you lafayette.

You let an irrelivant by choice, ivy. Pull your chocker caller around like you are a little slave girl.

[Go...gate]

The upgrade to FCS football and becoming a state school destroyed Rutgers. It use to be very reputable with many high quality academic departments. The evidence is in the Lafayette alumni building... a row of pennants of Ivy and PL schools from the 1950s includes Rutgers... shocking.

In the 1950s, Rutgers was definitely considered one of the peers of the Ivy, and not merely on the football field. A Rutgers degree was a mark of distinction. "The heights", in Highland Park, NJ, across the river from New Brunswick, was where many RU faculty lived and considered an exclusive, "academic" enclave.

[Reign of Terrier]

ECU is the biggest college in NC, I've heard

[superman7515]

Your conference are all whores.

I love you lafayette.

You let an irrelivant by choice, ivy. Pull your chocker caller around like you are a little slave girl.

Wow. Apparently there is no essay requirement to get into North Dakota State.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Your conference are all whores.

I love you lafayette.

You let an irrelivant by choice, ivy. Pull your chocker caller around like you are a little slave girl.

More accurately, an irrelevant Ivy League needed even less relevant competition, so on the Sixth Day it created us out of whole cloth. We weren't doing anything else critically important at the moment, so it seemed like a good idea.

Keep in mind that we're tiny, private schools with long histories of doing the same thing over and over, with calculable outcomes. The "choker" always has been firmly in the grasp of our alumni and donors. While we aren't required to respond to the agenda of state governance, we have much different, invariably greater, strictures to which we all must comport.

Our donors and trustees, for reasons best known to them and expressed to few (as is their prerogative), have determined that we are not to offer football scholarships and that we ought to limit (for the most part) our competition to places most familiar. It was a chore even agree to participate in the post-season (which at one time was self-prohibited).

We're not North Dakota State and never will be. We had the wonderful opportunity to travel there and to try our fortunes. We returned unsuccessful and defeated (but certainly not wounded, nor worse for the experience). Every year a few young people from North Dakota actually will travel east to attend one of our schools; most will attend NDSU, as you are well aware. But the few that do travel here do so by choice. Do you belittle their decision? I certainly don't take issue with the thousands who enroll in Fargo each year. They get an affordable, high-quality education.

And one more thing - we invented college football to begin with. So we have that going for us, which is nice.

[ASUMountaineer]

ECU is the biggest college in NC, I've heard

I'm pretty sure that title goes to NC State, unless of course you heard it from a Pirate fan. xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Bogus Megapardus;1680375]Not so shocking at all. Rutgers absolutely was a peer in all respects - considered that way by all. Now, of course, it's a freakin' slum. And that's really sad.

I don't think it is THAT bad.

[DFW HOYA]

In the 1950s, Rutgers was definitely considered one of the peers of the Ivy, and not merely on the football field. A Rutgers degree was a mark of distinction. "The heights", in Highland Park, NJ, across the river from New Brunswick, was where many RU faculty lived and considered an exclusive, "academic" enclave.

And the Fordham folks will tell you of a time when it was the leading Catholic college in America, that Boston College was a commuter school for kids who couldn't go to Holy Cross, or that Georgetown was a Washington version of St. Joe's. Times change, and Rutgers isn't an Ivy peer by any measure today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And the Fordham folks will tell you of a time when it was the leading Catholic college in America, that Boston College was a commuter school for kids who couldn't go to Holy Cross, or that Georgetown was a Washington version of St. Joe's. Times change, and Rutgers isn't an Ivy peer by any measure today.

And Holy Cross coulda been in . . . oh, never mind.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We're not North Dakota State and never will be. We had the wonderful opportunity to travel there and to try our fortunes. We returned unsuccessful and defeated (but certainly not wounded, nor worse for the experience). Every year a few young people from North Dakota actually will travel east to attend one of our schools; most will attend NDSU, as you are well aware. But the few that do travel here do so by choice. Do you belittle their decision? I certainly don't take issue with the thousands who enroll in Fargo each year. They get an affordable, high-quality education.

Even MplsBison?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Even MplsBison?

And to think - all this time I thought she was Lehigh grad.

[RichH2]

xrotatehxxnodx
And to think - all this time I thought she was Lehigh grad.


:D:):D:):D:):D

Great line. Needed the laugh after a lousy day. Thanks

[Go...gate]

And the Fordham folks will tell you of a time when it was the leading Catholic college in America, that Boston College was a commuter school for kids who couldn't go to Holy Cross, or that Georgetown was a Washington version of St. Joe's. Times change, and Rutgers isn't an Ivy peer by any measure today.

The only difference is that Rutgers was a Colonial College, older and better established than any of the schools you have listed, and schools like FU and BC were not even considered in its class.

[Franks Tanks]

The only difference is that Rutgers was a Colonial College, older and better established than any of the schools you have listed, and schools like FU and BC were not even considered in its class.

NJ really messed up when they designated Rutgers their land grant institution. They ruined Rutgers, and ended up with a clunky flagship university with fragmented campuses. They should've created the University of New Jersey in a location that could physically handle the students and expansion.

Rutgers could've easily been like William & Mary. A public colonial college with high standards and about 7-10k undergrads. In contrast to Sader 87, there are Rutgers alums sitting around saying "We could've been in the Patriot League".

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=Bogus Megapardus;1680375]Not so shocking at all. Rutgers absolutely was a peer in all respects - considered that way by all. Now, of course, it's a freakin' slum. And that's really sad.

I don't think it is THAT bad.

Well if you don't consider Socialist Realist, Brutalist architecture and concrete inhabitied by the "best" of New Jersey a slum, I don't know what is...

[superman7515]

Well if you don't consider Socialist Realist, Brutalist architecture and concrete inhabitied by the "best" of New Jersey a slum, I don't know what is...

I thought that was Trenton State Prison?

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;1680511]

Well if you don't consider Socialist Realist, Brutalist architecture and concrete inhabitied by the "best" of New Jersey a slum, I don't know what is...

The old campus on College Avenue is very nice, though. The facilities at Cook College are also good and there are some fine buildings on the Busch Campus (though Hill Center and the Busch campus dormitories are exactly the Socialist, Brutalist architecture you describe). The old Douglass College campus on George Street is also nice.

RU's chapel is really something special, too.

[Go...gate]

NJ really messed up when they designated Rutgers their land grant institution. They ruined Rutgers, and ended up with a clunky flagship university with fragmented campuses. They should've created the University of New Jersey in a location that could physically handle the students and expansion.

Rutgers could've easily been like William & Mary. A public colonial college with high standards and about 7-10k undergrads. In contrast to Sader 87, there are Rutgers alums sitting around saying "We could've been in the Patriot League".

Indeed there are - more than you think, especially the old grads who liked playing Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate, Delaware, Fordham and Army. That ship has sailed, though. I just hope Rutgers finds a niche in which its teams can thrive.

[superman7515]

Indeed there are - more than you think, especially the old grads who liked playing Princeton, Columbia, Cornell, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate, Delaware, Fordham and Army. That ship has sailed, though. I just hope Rutgers finds a niche in which its teams can thrive.

31 times, many home and away in Newark & New Brunswick, by the early 1970's.... But no more. Instead they play MEAC teams like Howard, Norfolk State, and Morgan State.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well if you don't consider Socialist Realist, Brutalist architecture and concrete inhabitied by the "best" of New Jersey a slum, I don't know what is...


I thought that was Trenton State Prison?

It's like GDR Stalingotik mass-construction, but without the quality and attention to detail. Completely befitting of the Ostpolitik mindset of the day. Much of this happened during the reich of the beloved comrade, Mason Gross.


NJ really messed up when they designated Rutgers their land grant institution. They ruined Rutgers, and ended up with a clunky flagship university with fragmented campuses.

Cook College was the state's land-grant since the Morrill Act of 1862, just like MIT and Cornell. Rutgers College was not a land-grant, and was never a state college. It's the 1956 decision to wave the state's politically-coerced, wholesale takeover in the face of Sen. Joe McCarthy and his ilk that foreshadowed the downfall of the once-proud institution. When the labor unions and corrupt officials got their hands on it, the long, slow decline began.

[Go...gate]

It's like GDR Stalingotik mass-construction, but without the quality and attention to detail. Completely befitting of the Ostpolitik mindset of the day. Much of this happened during the reich of the beloved comrade, Mason Gross.



Cook College was the state's land-grant since the Morrill Act of 1862, just like MIT and Cornell. Rutgers College was not a land-grant, and was never a state college. It's the 1956 decision to wave the state's politically-coerced, wholesale takeover in the face of Sen. Joe McCarthy and his ilk that foreshadowed the downfall of the once-proud institution. When the labor unions and corrupt officials got their hands on it, the long, slow decline began.

Absolutely correct.

[Go...gate]

Historically, Columbia began as "The King's College" and Rutgers as "The Queen's College", with Princeton (then known as the "College of New Jersey" in a settlement known as "Prince Town") a close peer. Right up the road to the north, respectively was "Kings Town", now known as Kingston, and to the south was the Presbyterian settlement known as "Maidenhead", now called Lawrenceville.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Historically, Columbia began as "The King's College" and Rutgers as "The Queen's College", with Princeton (then known as the "College of New Jersey" in a settlement known as "Prince Town") a close peer. Right up the road to the north, respectively was "Kings Town", now known as Kingston, and to the south was the Presbyterian settlement known as "Maidenhead", now called Lawrenceville.

Pretty haughty stuff. Lafayette actually had its origins in "The Manual Labor Academy at Germantown" in 1829. See, we've always been more down-to-earth. xcoolx

[alvinkayak6]

Go....gate, was that in an attempt to mirror or copy Oxford/Cambridge as they ahve a number of schools that use Kings college, queens, and other names of the sort

[TheBisonator]

Pretty haughty stuff. Lafayette actually had its origins in "The Manual Labor Academy at Germantown" in 1829. See, we've always been more down-to-earth. xcoolx

Oh yeah?? Well North Dakota Agricultural College was originally a place to teach the sons of farmers how to work the various farm machinery...

OK, I'll shut up now.

[alvinkayak6]

Oh yeah?? Well North Dakota Agricultural College was originally a place to teach the sons of farmers how to work the various farm machinery...

OK, I'll shut up now.

It's why people in the Dakotas have jobs, while nobdy in Ohio has one.

[MorgantonAPPAlum]

http://www.rockmnation.com/2011/9/19/2436901/portraits-of-conference-realignment

I can't remember if I saw this on this site or not, but it bears repeating if I did. This is hilarious

Oh man-that is one of the funniest things I've seen about this whole mess.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh yeah?? Well North Dakota Agricultural College was originally a place to teach the sons of farmers how to work the various farm machinery...


That was what the Morrill Act was designed to support. It still does. All land grant institutions support agriculturally-related fields of science. Believe it or not, we still have quite a bit of agriculture and livestock in New Jersey. People rely on the Rutgers Agricultural Extension all the time. Farm mechanics at NDSU evolved into much more sophisticated things, of course - but what could be more essential to the residents at the time than learning to bleed a diesel fuel system or repair a leaking hydraulic valve seal? Those things evolved into what is now a complete school of engineering and architecture at NDSU.

And as to "The Manual Labor Academy at Germantown," that's precisely why Lafayette now is a full-bore hard science and engineering institution and not just one big, flighty, overblown sociology lecture. It grew up, but it didn't really change its essential character.

[Pard4Life]

Historically, Columbia began as "The King's College" and Rutgers as "The Queen's College", with Princeton (then known as the "College of New Jersey" in a settlement known as "Prince Town") a close peer. Right up the road to the north, respectively was "Kings Town", now known as Kingston, and to the south was the Presbyterian settlement known as "Maidenhead", now called Lawrenceville.

The College of New Jersey was actually founded in Newark, NJ before moving to Prince town after a decade or so.

And Lehigh's origins derive from Asa Packer being a little whiny b----- when he realized Lafayette wasn't his religion... guess all schools retain some form of their origional identity today.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Although they did not meet on the football field until 1884, an anecdote from David Bishop Skillman's history of Lafayette College reveals that bad blood existed between the two places even before Lehigh was founded. When Asa Packer first moved to Mauch Chunk (now Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania) as an uneducated carpenter, he joined the congregation of a local Presbyterian Church following his family's footsteps. However, he did not fit in well with the other more straight-laced members of the congregation, and so left and joined an Episcopalian congregation that welcomed him.

One day, after Asa Packer had risen into affluence and before he founded Lehigh University, Ario Pardee, a coal baron from Hazleton, approached Judge Packer in connection with the addition of an engineering wing to Lafayette College. While eager at first in the proposition, Judge Packer's enthusiasm turned sour when Pardee mentioned that the school would be under the control of the Presbyterian Church. Judge Packer let him know that he would have nothing to do with any school run by the Presbyterians."

[Pard4Life]

Wow... an illogical and uniformed opinion by Packer based on little reason and much emotion leads to the founding of Lehigh... the school continues these traditions in the present day.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Wow... an illogical and uniformed opinion by Packer based on little reason and much emotion leads to the founding of Lehigh... the school continues these traditions in the present day.

Packer wasn't a fan of the Blue Hose either, I hear.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"When Asa Packer first moved to Mauch Chunk (now Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania) as an uneducated carpenter..."

We're more down-to-earth than you guys! :P


All land grant institutions support agriculturally-related fields of science. Believe it or not, we still have quite a bit of agriculture and livestock in New Jersey. People rely on the Rutgers Agricultural Extension all the time.

Rutgers' agricultural college is, I believe, still one of the best nationally. They've been on the forefront of biotech well before it was call biotech, and there are a multitude of "bio tech/food tech" companies fairly close to the campus. The industrial tomato variety known as "Rutgers" (for its portability, and resistance to rotting) came from cross-breeding tomato varieties at the college, and is now, I believe, a mainstay of "big, industrial food" today.

Rutgers is still a damned great school to go to, criticisms here nonwithstanding. Like anywhere, it depends what your field of expertise is. In engineering, Rutgers I believe is still close to Lehigh and Penn State in terms of Top 10 recognition. Their law department is pretty extensive. And their ag college is pretty good, too. It's not at the same level as, say, Cornell, but it's still in the top echelon, IMO, of schools nationally.

They're not a football school, though.

[LUHawker]

We're more down-to-earth than you guys! :P



Rutgers' agricultural college is, I believe, still one of the best nationally. They've been on the forefront of biotech well before it was call biotech, and there are a multitude of "bio tech/food tech" companies fairly close to the campus. The industrial tomato variety known as "Rutgers" (for its portability, and resistance to rotting) came from cross-breeding tomato varieties at the college, and is now, I believe, a mainstay of "big, industrial food" today.

Rutgers is still a damned great school to go to, criticisms here nonwithstanding. Like anywhere, it depends what your field of expertise is. In engineering, Rutgers I believe is still close to Lehigh and Penn State in terms of Top 10 recognition. Their law department is pretty extensive. And their ag college is pretty good, too. It's not at the same level as, say, Cornell, but it's still in the top echelon, IMO, of schools nationally.

They're not a football school, though.

LFN has to espouse these niceties about Rutgers, lest he get himself in hot water with the Mrs.xlovex

[DFW HOYA]

That was what the Morrill Act was designed to support. It still does. All land grant institutions support agriculturally-related fields of science.

Even this one, although it's a bit of a stretch.

http://www.udc.edu/aes/land_grant.htm

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN has to espouse these niceties about Rutgers, lest he get himself in hot water with the Mrs.xlovex

Damned straight! xlolx

[Twentysix]

Wow. Apparently there is no essay requirement to get into North Dakota State.

Up for 31 hours at the time of that post lmao. At the time of my admission the essay portion of the ACT was required :P. Not an admissions essay however.

[superman7515]

Baltimore Sun - Navy considers possible football move to Big East (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-09-22/sports/bs-sp-navy-big-east-0923-20110922_1_ad-gladchuk-john-marinatto-navy-athletic-director)


Navy athletic director Chet Gladchuk has worked at schools in big conferences, such as Syracuse, and has spent the past decade helping bring the football program in Annapolis back to national prominence as one of the few independents remaining in the country.

As much as Gladchuk sees "a lot of panic, a lot of shuffling and a lot of speculation" among conferences such as the Big East, he says that Navy is in a "safe harbor" when it comes to television deals and bowl contracts as well as scheduling big-name opponents for the next eight years.

But in an interview Thursday, Gladchuk said he can see the day when the Midshipmen set sail for a new destination — the Big East.

Though Gladchuk said that Navy hasn't been offered a spot to replace either Syracuse or Pittsburgh, the schools that announced Sunday they were leaving the Big East for the Atlantic Coast Conference, the likelihood seems strong that one will be tendered in the near future.

"We've had very legitimate discussions with the Big East regarding the possibility of membership," Gladchuk said.....

[Franks Tanks]

Even this one, although it's a bit of a stretch.

http://www.udc.edu/aes/land_grant.htm

I hear they were a key cog in getting Michelle Obama's Whitehouse garden up and running.

[Franks Tanks]

Baltimore Sun - Navy considers possible football move to Big East (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-09-22/sports/bs-sp-navy-big-east-0923-20110922_1_ad-gladchuk-john-marinatto-navy-athletic-director)

I forgot that Army and Navy have a deal with CBS sports. Virtually all of their games are televised nationally on the CBS sports channel. They also probaby get a nice chunk of change for the Army-Navy game. They would probably have to share that revenue if they join a conferece. I wonder if the Big East bowl money will exceed the revenue from their current deals. Naturally one has to wonder if the new revamped Big East will even be able to keep their BCS autobid, which was hanging by a thread before Pitt and Cuse left.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I forgot that Army and Navy have a deal with CBS sports. Virtually all of their games are televised nationally on the CBS sports channel. I wonder if the Big East bowl money will exceed the revenue from that deal. Naturally one has to wonder if the new revamped Big East will even be able to keep their BCS autobid, which was hanging by a thread before Pitt ancdCuse left.

Keep in mind that the Patriot CBS Sports deal is expanding as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Naturally one has to wonder if the new revamped Big East will even be able to keep their BCS autobid, which was hanging by a thread before Pitt and Cuse left.

IMO...

With just Navy being adding for football only, the Big East holding onto its BCS bid is debatable.

With Navy AND Air Force, I think it would definitely remain.

With Army, Navy AND Air Force, I feel it would be a mortal lock that the Big East holds onto it. Folks forget the draw that the Service Academies have in the bowl world. Heck, there's even an "Armed Forces Bowl" where it's almost a guarantee that a Service Academy will qualify each year.

[Go...gate]

Go....gate, was that in an attempt to mirror or copy Oxford/Cambridge as they have a number of schools that use Kings college, queens, and other names of the sort

It was. Definitely some homage to the British Crown there, as well as a lot of the Colonial Communites in NJ at that time. In fact, Perth Amboy, about ten miles from New Brunswick, was the Capital of the New Jersey Colony for many years, and legislators met at Perth Amboy's Proprietary House. William Franklin, Ben's black sheep son and a Tory, ran a good chunk of NJ from Perth Amboy (which was a wealthy mercantile center in those days and sent many of its sons to - you guessed it - Rutgers.)

I love NJ history - lots of crooks and rascals, but lots of great stuff, too.

[Go...gate]

The College of New Jersey was actually founded in Newark, NJ before moving to Prince town after a decade or so.

And Lehigh's origins derive from Asa Packer being a little whiny b----- when he realized Lafayette wasn't his religion... guess all schools retain some form of their origional identity today.

Yes, indeed. The school did not actually locate in Prince Town until about 1757, eleven years after its 1746 founding.

People easily forget how important a city Newark, NJ was for so many years.

[SoCon48]

W&M and Richmond go to Socon IMO

They've already been there and left years ago.

[Franks Tanks]

IMO...

With just Navy being adding for football only, the Big East holding onto its BCS bid is debatable.

With Navy AND Air Force, I think it would definitely remain.

With Army, Navy AND Air Force, I feel it would be a mortal lock that the Big East holds onto it. Folks forget the draw that the Service Academies have in the bowl world. Heck, there's even an "Armed Forces Bowl" where it's almost a guarantee that a Service Academy will qualify each year.

Under the current very specific rules (which I can't find at the moment) a conference must have a given number of teams ranked, and maintain a certain average ranking over a number of years to be considered for an automatic BCS bid.

[alvinkayak6]

Under the current very specific rules (which I can't find at the moment) a conference must have a given number of teams ranked, and maintain a certain average ranking over a number of years to be considered for an automatic BCS bid.

Everything points to a future where there are 24 playoff teams and autobids for Pioneer and maybe even Ivy. That would be a cool play in game. Jacksonville "University" vs. Yale.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Everything points to a future where there are 24 playoff teams and autobids for Pioneer and maybe even Ivy. That would be a cool play in game. Jacksonville "University" vs. Yale.

xsmhxxsmhxxsmhx

Not happening. Ivy always has been eligible for an auto-bid, since day one. In fact, Ivy is eligible to be classified as 1-A. Its step down to 1-AA was entirely voluntary. The league simply has a policy prohibiting post-season play, and it is not going to change that policy. In fact, the league isn't even going to explain it, except in the most vague terms - as is its prerogative, I suppose.

Ivy fan interest is centered around two "championships" - whoever wins the league title, and whoever wins the Harvard/Yale game. Winning one or the other is considered the pinnacle of football success behind the Ivy wall. It has never sought or needed any more than that. It's not as if Ivy needs to get its name out there . . . .

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2011/09/friday-water-cooler-realignment-aggedon.html

Realignment-Aggedon. It's not about football. It's - surprise! - about money, and how best to gorge on it.

That's why the Big East will limp along with new members, it's why megaconferences won't ever happen, and it's why UConn won't be moving to the ACC anytime soon.

[OL FU]

xsmhxxsmhxxsmhx

Not happening. Ivy always has been eligible for an auto-bid, since day one. In fact, Ivy is eligible to be classified as 1-A. Its step down to 1-AA was entirely voluntary. The league simply has a policy prohibiting post-season play, and it is not going to change that policy. In fact, the league isn't even going to explain it, except in the most vague terms - as is its prerogative, I suppose.

Ivy fan interest is centered around two "championships" - whoever wins the league title, and whoever wins the Harvard/Yale game. Winning one or the other is considered the pinnacle of football success behind the Ivy wall. It has never sought or needed any more than that. It's not as if Ivy needs to get its name out there . . . .

This isn't an argument because I honestly don't know. It is a question. I thought the reason the NCAA stepped the Ivies down was the number of scholarships (or lack thereof)?

[Franks Tanks]

This isn't an argument because I honestly don't know. It is a question. I thought the reason the NCAA stepped the Ivies down was the number of scholarships (or lack thereof)?

I think it had to do with the attendance issue. At the time a few Ivies met the attendance criteria to remain I-A, but others did not. The decided as a league to move to I-AA instead of fighting the NCAAto remain I-A.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not sure if Temple has formally applied to the BE. They're are linked reports on the TU board from reliable sources that suggest we have. The school has not made anything official.

Pic from the Temple-PSU game, we're getting there. The Linc wasn't taken over by PSU fans. Games against WVU, Rutgers and Cincy would absolutely draw if we keep improving.

http://www.owlsports.com/images/2011/9/20/rp_primary_Panorama_Rough_Draft_01.jpg

[OL FU]

I think it had to do with the attendance issue. At the time a few Ivies met the attendance criteria to remain I-A, but others did not. The decided as a league to move to I-AA instead of fighting the NCAAto remain I-A.

gotcha.

[91Niner]

ECU is the biggest college in NC, I've heard

NC State - ~33,000+
UNC Chapel Hill - ~31,000+
ECU - 26,000+
UNC Charlotte - 25,000+

[alvinkayak6]

Too bad the Owls didnt give a hoot in the 4th quarter. They had the Nittany Lions hiding in trees. Would have been an incredible result.

[alvinkayak6]

Bogus,

Good point about the Ivy not needing any sort of national validation. Would hate to see Harvard lose to Apprentice SCHOOL. LOL

I have heard rumblins from coaches tho. Some coaches want playoffs for Ivy Football. I bet players want it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogus,

Good point about the Ivy not needing any sort of national validation. Would hate to see Harvard lose to Apprentice SCHOOL. LOL

I have heard rumblins from coaches tho. Some coaches want playoffs for Ivy Football. I bet players want it.

Players want it, but they knew what they were getting into to begin with. Most of them could have played anywhere they wanted with a full ride.

[49RFootballNow]

Not sure of the validity of this, as it is a local broadcaster; but it "appears" ECU may have a football-only membership in the Big East on the table:


In the meantime, the conference will continue to recruit new schools. It appears that East Carolina, Navy and Air Force will come aboard but nothing is official yet.

http://www.whas11.com/sports/university-of-louisville-sports/Future-of-Big-East-Conference-still-uncertain-130452258.html

[Pard4Life]

Not sure if Temple has formally applied to the BE. They're are linked reports on the TU board from reliable sources that suggest we have. The school has not made anything official.

Pic from the Temple-PSU game, we're getting there. The Linc wasn't taken over by PSU fans. Games against WVU, Rutgers and Cincy would absolutely draw if we keep improving.

http://www.owlsports.com/images/2011/9/20/rp_primary_Panorama_Rough_Draft_01.jpg

The stadium was still half empty at the start of the third quarter.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple went into College Park and destroyed the Terps 38-7. All this program needs is a chance!

[dgtw]

Not sure of the validity of this, as it is a local broadcaster; but it "appears" ECU may have a football-only membership in the Big East on the table:



http://www.whas11.com/sports/university-of-louisville-sports/Future-of-Big-East-Conference-still-uncertain-130452258.html

I don't see CUSA letting ECU stay as a non-football member.