Ivy and Patriot Teams As Potential OOC Opponents

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

In another thread that I'm choosing to leave in its dormant status, opinions were offered about the potential availability of Ivy and Patriot teams as OOC games for A-10/CAA teams. This led me to do a little research into UNH Football History beyond games with in-state Ivy rival Dartmouth.

For the three other Ivy schools located in New England:

Harvard (about 1 hour 15 minutes from Durham) has played UNH 7 times with the last game in 1939.
Brown (which is just over 2 hours from Durham) has played UNH 15 times with the last game in 1931
Yale (about 3 hours 20 minutes from Durham) has played UNH once in 1935.


For the four other Ivy schools located outside New England:

Cornell has played UNH once in 1922.
Columbia, Princeton and Penn have never played UNH in football.


Moving on to the Patriot:

Colgate has played UNH four times with the last game in 1990. (Obviously, I didn't include the playoff game in 2005.)
Bucknell has played UNH four times with the last game in 1985.
Lafayette has played UNH six times with the last game in 1987.
Lehigh has played UNH eleven times with the last game in 1996.
Holy Cross (all of 95 miles and 1:40 from Durham) has played UNH eleven times with the last game in 1984.
Fordham and Georgetown have never played UNH in football.


I'm curious if the other A-10/CAA schools have a similar track record? Without seeing their interaction, I come to the conclusion that Ivyies aren't going to be open to games in the future either unless there are some radical changes in their philosophy. Other than regional/rivalry games like UNH-Dartmouth, URI-Brown, Northeastern-Harvard, UMass-Harvard, Hofstra-Columbia, Villanova-Penn, etc., I don't think any AD has Ivy OOC games in their back pocket.

UNH playing Lehigh in PA in the 1975 D-II playoffs seemed to open the door for future games. Playing at least one game against Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate or Bucknell soon became the norm in UNH scheduling until 1996. Just before the Yankee Conference expanded in 1986 by adding Delaware and Richmond, UNH played Lehigh, Lafayette AND Bucknell in 1983 and 1984. While 1997 was the start of A-10 administration, it still was an eight game league season just like the prior Yankee years. I don't know why PL teams, especially Lehigh, dropped off the schedule at this point? Just curious, when did the Patriot League get started? And when did they start that sceduling link to the Ivyies?

For about a decade and a half, UNH seemed to have solid interaction with the PL schools. But it is now a complete decade without any games except for the Colgate playoff game last Fall. Colgate is in the middle of a four game series with UMass which hopefully will always be spot on their schedule for someone from the A-10/CAA. But in general it is this 10 year hiatus that developed my no confidence opinion about future scheduling. Even though they aren't the nearest PL school, Colgate is the one I view as most likely to develop a series with UNH. We were once all sports conference partners in the NAC (North Atlantic Conference) and we still play in many sports.

Anticipating the most obvious question I expect from posters, I have my own theory why UNH hasn't played the Patriot school in ridiculously close proximity -- Holy Cross. Go back to 1984. IIRC, Holy Cross was undefeated at through seven or eight games and they were really building up their end of the season matchup with Boston College as a battle of undefeated teams. To the old timers at Holy Cross, they view themselves as BC's equal so to them BC-HC was a grudge match of Yale-Harvard and Lehigh-Lafayette proportions. And, aren't we in the Doug Flutie years at BC? Well, the Wildcats had other ideas!! And yours truly had a very enjoyable day at Fitton Field with his 14 year old cousin watching the Wildcats score a late TD to prevail 14-13!! UNH has never been on a Holy Cross football schedule again. I don't think they downgraded their program immediately after that season! And UNH didn't add games with Delaware and Richmond until 1986. But at some point, the Crusaders did downgrade and to be frank Holy Cross never liked losing to any State U. folks from Durham (or Amherst, Storrs or Kingston for that matter)!!

Back to the point of the discussion, is there anything in the history of other A-10/CAA schools or in the Patriot scheduling philosophies that point toward addition OOC games being feasible?

[DFW HOYA]

Back to the point of the discussion, is there anything in the history of other A-10/CAA schools or in the Patriot scheduling philosophies that point toward addition OOC games being feasible?

Georgetown is often the odd team out in these discussions, owing to its unusual migration through its football ranks (going from major college to club team, then to D-II, then to D-III, then to the MAAC, now PL). It has never played the Yankee schools and has met only two of the other six (Hofstra, Towson) in the past 50 years.

I know Georgetown has discussed games with A-10/CAA teams but it goes nowhere. Washington DC ought to be a great recruiting opportunity for these schools, esp. Richmond, W&M, and Villanova, but I think some of these coaches look down on scheduling GU. The fact that Villanova can arrange a home and home with Bucknell but not consider Georgetown, a natural rival, is evidence of this attitude.

Almost every year, it seems, Sports Network takes Georgetown to task for its disparate collection of non-conference games--VMI, St. Francis, Butler, Florida Int'l., Stony Brook, Marist, etc.--when the fact is that, in some cases, this is all they can get. There are no local I-AA teams besides Howard and they're not going to give up a HBCU classic game to play cross town. Ivy games were a priority under the previous coach but in some cases it takes 10 years to get on a Penn or Yale schedule, in the meantime, you work with the cards you've got.

When fans scratch their head this fall and ask "why is Georgetown playing Charleston Southern?" it's likely because the A-10/CAA isn't calling.

[Husky Alum]

Now, Northeastern was principally a D-II program until the early 1970s, so our stats may not be as deep as UNH's, but since we were an independent for many years, playing these schools couldn't have been THAT difficult. Here's what I came up with

NU vs. the Ivy League

Harvard (it's across the river), last played 2004 (7 games in series)
Cornell, played once in 1989.

NU has never played the rest of the Ivy league, which is funny since Brown, Yale, and Dartmouth are no further than 2 hours from NU.

Turning to the Patriot

Holy Cross - NU will play this year. Last played in 1989 (4 games in series).
Bucknell - Last played in 1985 (4 games overall).
Fordham - Played in 2002 (NCAA Playoffs).
Lehigh - 10 times played, last time in 1992.
Lafayette - played twice, last time in 1998.
Colgate - Played 3 times, last time in 1995.

NU has never played Georgetown.

Have Georgetown call NU - let's try and do a home and home!

[Cocky]

I'm sure No IVYs or PL have played us in regular season. They don't want to associate with us lowly Southern people.

[ngineer]

I'm sure No IVYs or PL have played us in regular season. They don't want to associate with us lowly Southern people.

But we did have a little get-together in 1977!:D

[Cocky]

But we did have a little get-together in 1977!:D

I hated the outcome. Maybe we will get another chance someday.

[ngineer]

In another thread that I'm choosing to leave in its dormant status, opinions were offered about the potential availability of Ivy and Patriot teams as OOC games for A-10/CAA teams. This led me to do a little research into UNH Football History beyond games with in-state Ivy rival Dartmouth.

For the three other Ivy schools located in New England:

Harvard (about 1 hour 15 minutes from Durham) has played UNH 7 times with the last game in 1939.
Brown (which is just over 2 hours from Durham) has played UNH 15 times with the last game in 1931
Yale (about 3 hours 20 minutes from Durham) has played UNH once in 1935.


For the four other Ivy schools located outside New England:

Cornell has played UNH once in 1922.
Columbia, Princeton and Penn have never played UNH in football.


Moving on to the Patriot:

Colgate has played UNH four times with the last game in 1990. (Obviously, I didn't include the playoff game in 2005.)
Bucknell has played UNH four times with the last game in 1985.
Lafayette has played UNH six times with the last game in 1987.
Lehigh has played UNH eleven times with the last game in 1996.
Holy Cross (all of 95 miles and 1:40 from Durham) has played UNH eleven times with the last game in 1984.
Fordham and Georgetown have never played UNH in football.


I'm curious if the other A-10/CAA schools have a similar track record? Without seeing their interaction, I come to the conclusion that Ivyies aren't going to be open to games in the future either unless there are some radical changes in their philosophy. Other than regional/rivalry games like UNH-Dartmouth, URI-Brown, Northeastern-Harvard, UMass-Harvard, Hofstra-Columbia, Villanova-Penn, etc., I don't think any AD has Ivy OOC games in their back pocket.

UNH playing Lehigh in PA in the 1975 D-II playoffs seemed to open the door for future games. Playing at least one game against Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate or Bucknell soon became the norm in UNH scheduling until 1996. Just before the Yankee Conference expanded in 1986 by adding Delaware and Richmond, UNH played Lehigh, Lafayette AND Bucknell in 1983 and 1984. While 1997 was the start of A-10 administration, it still was an eight game league season just like the prior Yankee years. I don't know why PL teams, especially Lehigh, dropped off the schedule at this point? Just curious, when did the Patriot League get started? And when did they start that sceduling link to the Ivyies?

For about a decade and a half, UNH seemed to have solid interaction with the PL schools. But it is now a complete decade without any games except for the Colgate playoff game last Fall. Colgate is in the middle of a four game series with UMass which hopefully will always be spot on their schedule for someone from the A-10/CAA. But in general it is this 10 year hiatus that developed my no confidence opinion about future scheduling. Even though they aren't the nearest PL school, Colgate is the one I view as most likely to develop a series with UNH. We were once all sports conference partners in the NAC (North Atlantic Conference) and we still play in many sports.

Anticipating the most obvious question I expect from posters, I have my own theory why UNH hasn't played the Patriot school in ridiculously close proximity -- Holy Cross. Go back to 1984. IIRC, Holy Cross was undefeated at through seven or eight games and they were really building up their end of the season matchup with Boston College as a battle of undefeated teams. To the old timers at Holy Cross, they view themselves as BC's equal so to them BC-HC was a grudge match of Yale-Harvard and Lehigh-Lafayette proportions. And, aren't we in the Doug Flutie years at BC? Well, the Wildcats had other ideas!! And yours truly had a very enjoyable day at Fitton Field with his 14 year old cousin watching the Wildcats score a late TD to prevail 14-13!! UNH has never been on a Holy Cross football schedule again. I don't think they downgraded their program immediately after that season! And UNH didn't add games with Delaware and Richmond until 1986. But at some point, the Crusaders did downgrade and to be frank Holy Cross never liked losing to any State U. folks from Durham (or Amherst, Storrs or Kingston for that matter)!!

Back to the point of the discussion, is there anything in the history of other A-10/CAA schools or in the Patriot scheduling philosophies that point toward addition OOC games being feasible?

Interesting topic. The Patriot League started as the Colonial Conference in 1986 and with that began scheduling in the future with an "Ivy" connection. Yes, Lehigh and UNH had some excellent games during a ten year stretch that began with the D-II playoffs at Taylor Stadium. With the Ivy connection beginning in the 1990's wherein each PL team plays usually 3 Ivy schools a year, that leaves only two other OOC's. With the A-10 expansion, it makes it very tight scheduling. IF it can be done, Lehigh prefers to play Delaware due to long time rivalry going back 60+ years, and has tried starting a regular 'relationship' with Villanova due to local geography. That would be my take on why there has been no further competition between UNH and Lehigh recently.

[colgate13]

Colgate is in the middle of a four game series with UMass which hopefully will always be spot on their schedule for someone from the A-10/CAA.

Following UMass is a tilt with Towson, who could be really good that year. After that, I think there is at least always one A-10 team on the sked. This 4 year series (plus one bonus game!) with Umass was the longest run I've seen in a while. We've done Richmond, Maine, Nova recently.


Even though they aren't the nearest PL school, Colgate is the one I view as most likely to develop a series with UNH. We were once all sports conference partners in the NAC (North Atlantic Conference) and we still play in many sports.

Not to mention your AD's connection to Colgate. I think it's just a matter of not enough games to go around! I will say selfishly though I'm glad that we've added a SoCon series coming up and we have our I-A game against Buffalo again. Those games are important for us.

[carney2]

Not only an interesting, but a very complicated topic. I doubt if anyone has the real skinny here, so I will add my two cents' worth - none of it supported by a chapter and verse that I can quote:

First, as someone has already pointed out, the current Patriot League began as the Colonial Conference and has a strong Ivy connection. Myth has it that the Colonial Conference was actually nudged into existence by the Ivy League so that they would have someone to play in football. True or not? I don't know. Anyway, additonal rumor is that the original agreement was that each team would reserve 3 slots on its out of conference schedule (the Ivy League's full allotment) for teams from the other conference. Some schools have apparently taken this pretty seriously over the years (Lafayette and Columbia come to mind) while others (most?) began to drift in the mid-nineties. Still, I'm betting the Ivy League and the Patriot League have more of an interlocking schedule than any two I-AA conferences in the country. I'm also betting that whenever an AD from either conference has an open football date to fill, the first place he looks is the other conference.

Second - and I'm sure that the Colgate and Lehigh afficionados will reject this out of hand - in my opinion the Patriot League has had an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the "big kids" of I-AA - the A-10, SoCon, Gateway, to name a few. I know that in 2004 when Lafayette drew Delaware in the first round of the I-AA playoffs most of the Pards that I know considered it a no brainer trip to the woodshed. This didn't occur in 2005, but only because not many of my Pard friends know anything about the SoCon. "Appalachian State? Where's that? Where?!!!" was pretty much the reaction that I encountered. Still, the locals gave the eventual I-AA champ all they could handle deep into the 4th quarter. Only now does the thought break through the haze that maybe - just maybe - the top level of the Patriot League can play with these scholarship schools.

Add to my second point above the Arthur Rothkopf school of athletics which says that scheduling these scholarship schools (on a regular basis) is too much "emphasis on athletics," and you have a dangerous mix.

The Ivies are snobs. They are like the cool kids/in crowd at your high school who would not be seen even talking to anyone below a certain level of "cool." (It would, after all, be unforgiveable if anyone got the impression that this low life breathes the same air as Mr. Wonderful.) There is no one with quite the status of the Ivies, don't you know. They are the intellectual, cultural and financial aristocracy - and, they invented the game. To be seen mixing freely and regularly with the hoi polloi of state university rabble would be beneath one's dignity. "The Patriot League at least makes some low level pretense of academic standards, and they do, after all, provide an invaluable service as 'safety schools' for many of our applicants." Again, in my opinion, this attitude trickles down to the athletic department as well as the philosophy and anthropology departments and the Hahvahd Club in Manhattan. Football scheduling is part of who they are.

I could go on - and I may in another post. This rambling excretion of bile is enough for now.

[DFW HOYA]

Anyway, additonal rumor is that the original agreement was that each team would reserve 3 slots on its out of conference schedule (the Ivy League's full allotment) for teams from the other conference. Some schools have apparently taken this pretty seriously over the years (Lafayette and Columbia come to mind) while others (most?) began to drift in the mid-nineties. Still, I'm betting the Ivy League and the Patriot League have more of an interlocking schedule than any two I-AA conferences in the country. I'm also betting that whenever an AD from either conference has an open football date to fill, the first place he looks is the other conference.

In the core of the PL, maybe, but associate members have often been found out of the loop. Towson usually got no more than one Ivy a year during its visit in the league, while Georgetown got one Ivy game among its first 20 non-conference games, and that was only because Towson was leaving and gave up a date with Cornell. Fordham fans are openly grousing about the fact that they're down to just one Ivy game and had to add Monmouth and Marist this season, asking where all the Ivies went.

To be fair, Georgetown's situation looks to improve in 2007, with home and away series with Penn and Yale. An ideal situation would be to rotate Ivy-PL games annually over a four year period so that all eight schools of each league play each other at least once over a student's four years, but the H-Y-P group would probably have none of that, much less the L-L-C (Laf, Leh, and Colg)

[blukeys]

Not only an interesting, but a very complicated topic. I doubt if anyone has the real skinny here,



Without a doubt a complicated subject when tied up with History. Everyone has an historic story. The 2 Pl teams that UD had a solid and long term relationship with (Lehigh and Lafayette) decided to head in a different direction after the break up of the Old MAC. Lafayette was the first with no games after the 70's. The Lafayette admin saw UD as too interested in athletics and went in another direction that deemphasized football. (Wrong decision in my view.) Lehigh and UD continued to play as OOC until UD went to Yankee Conference and MAX scholarships and Lehigh Joined up with the Colonial.

During the 90's The Patriot League pretty much saw the Ivies as their OOC teams and appeared uninterested in scheduling outside of that. IN the last few years, It is pretty obvious that the Patriot League no longer sees the Ivies as their sole OOC partner and have scheduled quite a few regular season games with A-10 opponents. I view this as a direct result of the PL becoming involved in the playoffs.

The Ice has been broken and I see more of these games in the future. This may put some pressure on the Ivies to schedule OOC ouside of the PL as they will have to look elsewhere for OOC (Although the 10 game Ivy schedule insulates them somewhat from OOC scheduling concerns.

UNH will, in my view, be an attractive opponent for PL teams. The Ivies are more problematic especially if they keep their 10 game requirement. As for Dartmouth, who would appear to be a natural Opponent for UNH, I believe they will continue to pretend that UNH doesn't exist. Considering the state of both football programs, that is Dartmouth's best move. ;) ;) ;)

[colgate13]

Myth has it that the Colonial Conference was actually nudged into existence by the Ivy League so that they would have someone to play in football. True or not? I don't know.

True.


Anyway, additonal rumor is that the original agreement was that each team would reserve 3 slots on its out of conference schedule (the Ivy League's full allotment) for teams from the other conference.

Urban Legend.


Still, I'm betting the Ivy League and the Patriot League have more of an interlocking schedule than any two I-AA conferences in the country. I'm also betting that whenever an AD from either conference has an open football date to fill, the first place he looks is the other conference.

Absolutely. But I think that's largely for two reasons: history and geography.


Second - and I'm sure that the Colgate and Lehigh afficionados will reject this out of hand - in my opinion the Patriot League has had an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the "big kids" of I-AA - the A-10, SoCon, Gateway, to name a few.

Yea, probably. We need some more playoff wins and not just close losses to move us further along.

[colgate13]

During the 90's The Patriot League pretty much saw the Ivies as their OOC teams and appeared uninterested in scheduling outside of that. IN the last few years, It is pretty obvious that the Patriot League no longer sees the Ivies as their sole OOC partner and have scheduled quite a few regular season games with A-10 opponents. I view this as a direct result of the PL becoming involved in the playoffs.

The Ice has been broken and I see more of these games in the future. This may put some pressure on the Ivies to schedule OOC ouside of the PL as they will have to look elsewhere for OOC (Although the 10 game Ivy schedule insulates them somewhat from OOC scheduling concerns.
Absolutely this is a result of the playoff ban being lifted in '97. We've had some success and see there's more to I-AA than the same old same old now that we're part of the larger association. Colgate seems to have dropped a regular Ivy in favour of an A-10, SoCon or I-A game now. It's just awful tough to drop any more, when one is our rival Cornell, one is historic opponent Princeton, and the other is usually Dartmouth (a school we overlap with a lot).


UNH will, in my view, be an attractive opponent for PL teams.
I agree. The real question though seems to be which PL will have an opening first. There are 12 of you, and only 7 of us. Last year 6 of us had A-10 games (Georgetown the exception). Unless schools double up on the A-10 (which I don't know if I've seen that yet...), 5 are left out in the cold, especially with home and homes.

[Pard4Life]

Colgate 13 is on the money carney, the PL was formed so that the Ivies would have somebody else to play in football. Sadly it instills the notion that we are Ivy junior.

The only reason Lafayette played Richmond was due to a scheduling vacancy due to Towson's departure, leaving us with one more OOC game. It turns out that we had trouble finding opponents, and it happened to be that Richmond had an open slot the same weekend as us in 2004. So, we made dates.. and a home and home, presumably due to an open week in 2005 as well.

Outside of that 'accident' we do not play any A-10 teams. They are not even on the future schedule.. which I am very dissappointed. I like playing the Ivies.. even though we never beat anyone aside from Columbia... since it's good football and historic. But, I think we need to drop an Ivy game... add an A10, SoCon once in awhile, maybe even Gatway.. keep the MAAC/NEC game.. and the PL slate. Perfect schedule in my mind. On a side note I think we are the only PL team that plays H-Y-P next year. We always play H-P, but Yale is rare.. only 7 times ever I think.

And back to the A10-PL non-existent games.. Villanova is equally close to Lehigh as Lafayette. The last time we played Villanova.... before the Great Depression.. 1923 or something like that. Delaware we faced often due to the old conference.. but Richmond rarely.. first time since the 1920s, William and Mary I think only less than half a dozen... same with URI, UMass... James Madison we played consistently in the 1980s.. same with UNH. The others, I'm not sure.

In closing... an A10 each year.. one less Ivy, keep the NEC/MAAC game.

[JoltinJoe]

Fordham fans are openly grousing about the fact that they're down to just one Ivy game and had to add Monmouth and Marist this season, asking where all the Ivies went.



This year's Fordham schedule is atrocious but the one Ivy game seems to be an anomoly for perhaps the next two seasons. The Yale and Brown series renew in 2008.

Also, the Monmouth season-opener is a late fill-in game. URI asked out of that game to take on UConn. But URI is also on future schedules so hopefully the Monmouth game is one-time thing.

[TexasTerror]

The Texas SLC schools have had similar issues with the nearby Texas SWAC schools. Granted this will change this year when Texas Southern plays Texas State-San Marcos in the "Battle of TSUs", but unfortunately, Texas Southern and Prairie View A&M (both about an hour from SHSU) have not played the Kats in years.

You'd think these two programs would play us and like your situation, it is aggravating that you have these I-AA foes nearby that would be fiscally a good move, but have not for whichever reasons, play you. Seems like a smart call for those schools to play you guys in Durham and I'm sure you'd return the favor.

[carney2]

(1) I like playing the Ivies.. even though we never beat anyone aside from Columbia.
(2) In closing... an A10 each year.. one less Ivy, keep the NEC/MAAC game.

Re: (1) - This had better be the year, or Tavani's halo gets a lot of tarnish.

Re: (2) - Amen!

[justballn21]

Just an interesting sidenote.....we had UNH on our schedule during last spring and the game was cancelled when we arrived for summer camp and replaced by another team (I think Sacred Heart). I'm not sure why but I would love to play UNH. I hear their stadium is electric and it would be an honor to go head to head with one of the elite programs of I-AA.

[ngineer]

Hey we have a Crusader checkin' in...We need a few more of your purple people around here!:D

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Just an interesting sidenote.....we had UNH on our schedule during last spring and the game was cancelled when we arrived for summer camp and replaced by another team (I think Sacred Heart). I'm not sure why but I would love to play UNH. I hear their stadium is electric and it would be an honor to go head to head with one of the elite programs of I-AA.

I too had heard that Holy Cross was on the UNH schedule last year, but also never heard why it didn't happen. It would have been a much better game than Iona for UNH or Sacred Heart for HC.

BTW, either you forgot to insert the sarcasm emoticon or somebody is yanking your chain. "Electric" is not a description used when describing venerable, old Cowell Stadium! xlolx You must be confusing it with the Tub down in Newark, DE where you recently played. ;) I don't know what attendance is like these days, but Fitton Field is a larger venue than any in the A-10 except for Delaware. My memory from 1984 is a very large crowd because I recall sitting in the small, South end zone bleachers.

JMHO, but a natural for Holy Cross to upgrade their schedule would be to play at least one of the local A-10 schools (UNH, Northeastern, UMass or URI). Those are practically day of the game bus trips!! :eek: Do those even exist any more?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UNH will, in my view, be an attractive opponent for PL teams. The Ivies are more problematic especially if they keep their 10 game requirement. As for Dartmouth, who would appear to be a natural Opponent for UNH, I believe they will continue to pretend that UNH doesn't exist. Considering the state of both football programs, that is Dartmouth's best move. ;) ;) ;)

Hey Blu, don't be giving the Big Green any ideas!! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Actually, Dartmouth has not won a game in this series since 1976. They played again, home and home in 1979 and 1980, then from 1985-87, in 1990 and in 1992. They didn't appear on the schedule again until 2000 after three losing seasons for UNH. Prior to that, UNH hadn't had a losing season since 1982. Let's just say there was speculation that Dartmouth agreed to re-start the series because UNH was now losing.

I don't know how long this contract runs, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dartmouth ended the series again because they just don't like losing to the common folk down the road at ol' State U. Heaven forbid they use the game as an incentive to improve! All Dartmouth-UNH matchups get significant coverage by the statewide media (Concord and Manchester newspapers and the Manchester TV station). Dropping the football series wouldn't be good PR in the state, but we all know how much an Ivy cares about what the average citizen thinks. :rolleyes:

Dartmouth has already killed an excellent basketball event in Manchester's Verizon Arena. They had a tripleheader with NH colleges (Plymouth State vs. Keene State (D-III), Southern NH University vs. St. Anselms (D-II and both Manchester schools) and UNH vs. Dartmouth. The first event despite a nasty snow storm had decent attendance and the event had promise. But year two when Dartmouth had the home game vs. UNH, they wouldn't play it on a nuetral site (like UNH did the prior year) and effectively killed the promising NH Hoop Festival.

But to be fair, much has been done in the past five years to enhance this in-state rivalry. They've created a trophy for the annual ice hockey match held on neutral ice at the Verizon Center. (Dartmouth can't pull that superiority routine when ice hockey is involved nor turn down proceeds from the 9K attendance!!) Pretty good rivalries have developed in women's sports which has helped too.

I recall when each Ivy had a big rivalry game (UNH-Dartmouth, URI-Brown, UConn-Yale, UMass-Harvard, Cornell-Colgate, Princeton-Rutgers, Penn-Lehigh, Columbia-not sure (Lafayette or Fordham?????)) on the last Saturday in September. I went to a few of the UConn-Yale games just to party with UConn grads I worked with. There would be 35K at the Yale Bowl, only topped by their games with Harvard. I-AA football would be the loser if any more of these games die off. :twocents:

[blukeys]

JMHO, but a natural for Holy Cross to upgrade their schedule would be to play at least one of the local A-10 schools (UNH, Northeastern, UMass or URI). Those are practically day of the game bus trips!! :eek: Do those even exist any more?

Not really. It has little to do with distance and more to do with a team's routine the day before the game. Most coaches would prefer to practice at the facility the day before the game. The players get the feel of the environment and conditions and the coaches get to see how the players perform in those conditions. Items such as the types of cleats can vary from locale to locale and can't be evaluated till you get there.

Nonetheless, It makes a lot of sense for the PL, Ivy, and A-10 teams in New England to make a concerted effort to schedule each other to save on travel costs and the reestablishment of local rivalries.

Good Luck getting Dartmouth on the phone!!!!!!:D :D :D :D

[Husky Alum]

JMHO, but a natural for Holy Cross to upgrade their schedule would be to play at least one of the local A-10 schools (UNH, Northeastern, UMass or URI). Those are practically day of the game bus trips!! :eek: Do those even exist any more?

The Crusaders host Northeastern on September 9. The return is I believe in 2008. I don't know when/if HC ever played NU in Boston. You can come up from CT and be an Honorary Husky!

When HC went non scholarship and NU started being competitive under Barry Gallup in the 1990s, HC decided not to play us any more. They thumped us like a drum in the late 1980s.

UNHAlum, you mean UConn and Yale actually PLAYED football? I just remember tailgating, and thinkging the game was just a ruse to get UConn fans to pay to park at Yale. ;)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The Crusaders host Northeastern on September 9. The return is I believe in 2008. I don't know when/if HC ever played NU in Boston. You can come up from CT and be an Honorary Husky!

If I'm not working or attending the UNH game, I would have no problem being a Husky fan when you line up against the Crusaders. After all, they are UCH Lite! ;) xlolx xlolx


When HC went non scholarship and NU started being competitive under Barry Gallup in the 1990s, HC decided not to play us any more. They thumped us like a drum in the late 1980s.

Wow, I never would have guessed that!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


UNHAlum, you mean UConn and Yale actually PLAYED football? I just remember tailgating, and thinkging the game was just a ruse to get UConn fans to pay to park at Yale. ;)

Yeah, it was only the tailgating that got me to attend. And yes, Yale definitely stuck it to the "poor taxpaying public" with the ticket and parking prices!! xlolx xlolx xlolx BTW, in typical Ivy fashion, IIRC Yale ended this series once UConn started to dominate, long before they went I-A.

[ngineer]

I hated the outcome. Maybe we will get another chance someday.

Would love to make that road trip--especially in early September!

[ngineer]

Hey Blu, don't be giving the Big Green any ideas!! xlolx xlolx xlolx

Actually, Dartmouth has not won a game in this series since 1976. They played again, home and home in 1979 and 1980, then from 1985-87, in 1990 and in 1992. They didn't appear on the schedule again until 2000 after three losing seasons for UNH. Prior to that, UNH hadn't had a losing season since 1982. Let's just say there was speculation that Dartmouth agreed to re-start the series because UNH was now losing.

I don't know how long this contract runs, but it wouldn't surprise me if Dartmouth ended the series again because they just don't like losing to the common folk down the road at ol' State U. Heaven forbid they use the game as an incentive to improve! All Dartmouth-UNH matchups get significant coverage by the statewide media (Concord and Manchester newspapers and the Manchester TV station). Dropping the football series wouldn't be good PR in the state, but we all know how much an Ivy cares about what the average citizen thinks. :rolleyes:

Dartmouth has already killed an excellent basketball event in Manchester's Verizon Arena. They had a tripleheader with NH colleges (Plymouth State vs. Keene State (D-III), Southern NH University vs. St. Anselms (D-II and both Manchester schools) and UNH vs. Dartmouth. The first event despite a nasty snow storm had decent attendance and the event had promise. But year two when Dartmouth had the home game vs. UNH, they wouldn't play it on a nuetral site (like UNH did the prior year) and effectively killed the promising NH Hoop Festival.

But to be fair, much has been done in the past five years to enhance this in-state rivalry. They've created a trophy for the annual ice hockey match held on neutral ice at the Verizon Center. (Dartmouth can't pull that superiority routine when ice hockey is involved nor turn down proceeds from the 9K attendance!!) Pretty good rivalries have developed in women's sports which has helped too.

I recall when each Ivy had a big rivalry game (UNH-Dartmouth, URI-Brown, UConn-Yale, UMass-Harvard, Cornell-Colgate, Princeton-Rutgers, Penn-Lehigh, Columbia-not sure (Lafayette or Fordham?????)) on the last Saturday in September. I went to a few of the UConn-Yale games just to party with UConn grads I worked with. There would be 35K at the Yale Bowl, only topped by their games with Harvard. I-AA football would be the loser if any more of these games die off. :twocents:

Sad to see that end the other year...Penn called it off after adding Villanova their schedule. Bagnoli didn't want to have to face them and us back to back each year. Since then we've been playing Harvard, Yale, and Princeton more frequently. Princeton only an hour away, and the Harvard and Yale games have been spirited--but there was a real 'edge' to the Penn game...:(

[Pard4Life]

Hey we have a Crusader checkin' in...We need a few more of your purple people around here!:D

When I saw a 'sader post, my eyes popped out of my head.. welcome aboard 'sader!

[gophoenix]

I really wish Elon would schedule some of the Patriot or Ivy teams. I think it'd be really cool to play some of the teams that we haven't played in 80 years.

[Go...gate]

According to Tony Maruca, a Princeton administrator who was also involved with the Ivy League, there was a formal de facto interlocking schedule arrangement with the Colonial/Patriot League beginning in 1986. Carmen Cozza of Yale openly derided it (no great surprise, given the fact that he was the coach of what was still a strong Yale program that still played some I-A's as a I-AA team) and was powerful enough to flout it from time to time, but he was ultimately compelled to follow and it remained in place at least into the late 1990's. The agreement is now more one of convenience, but clearly the Ivy-PL remain each other's most-played OOC opponent.

[ngineer]

According to Tony Maruca, a Princeton administrator who was also involved with the Ivy League, there was a formal de facto interlocking schedule arrangement with the Colonial/Patriot League beginning in 1986. Carmen Cozza of Yale openly derided it (no great surprise, given the fact that he was the coach of what was still a strong Yale program that still played some I-A's as a I-AA team) and was powerful enough to flout it from time to time, but he was ultimately compelled to follow and it remained in place at least into the late 1990's. The agreement is now more one of convenience, but clearly the Ivy-PL remain each other's most-played OOC opponent.

Yes, there were also discussions about a separate championship game between the Ivy and, then, Colonial, now PL Champion to be played after Thanksgiving (weekend after or first weekend in December to double up with Army/Navy). Nothing materialized and eventually PL got an auto-bid to the NCAA.

[colgate13]

My bad I guess. I was really looking at this from a current scheduling standpoint as well as being clouded by the fact that Colgate has always had at least 3 Ivys on the schedule.

Currently, there is no way you could say that such an agreement is in place. Our Georgetown and Fordham friends can attest to that.

[Go...gate]

You're right on these days, 13 - there has been nothing "on paper" for the last several seasons.

[LBPop]

Currently, there is no way you could say that such an agreement is in place. Our Georgetown and Fordham friends can attest to that.

My perspective is that of only a two-year fan of Georgetown football, but recent schedules clearly show an attempt to add Ivys to the OOC schedule. My sense is that this was a priority of the previous coaching staff and AD. I can tell you that during recruiting, the staff was quick to mention and emphasize the inclusion of Ivy League opponents on future schedules. That is quite likely due to the fact that Georgetown would frequently find itself in competition with the Ivy League. They could then say, "At Georgetown you can play against the Ivys, but also compete for the playoffs and get at least one more game each season".

Personally, I would love to see the Hoyas add an A-10 team or two. There are some excellent potential geographic rivalries (Towson and Richmond would be day trips while even Delaware and Villanova could be as well). Initially, it would be a case of "Watch what you wish for" as Georgetown might be overmatched, but that's the only way to get better.

[Go...gate]

That's how Fordham built up in the early years after moving to I-AA - they played Villanova, Hofstra, Richmond, and while some of the games were not pretty, I think it toughened the kids and lifted the sights of the program a bit.

[OL FU]

I realize this was about the CAA/A-10, but the thread is interesting so I looked up Furman and tried to eliminate playoff games.

I could not find where Furman ever played an Ivy School in FBall.
Current Patriot Fball members -

Bucknell first game 1933 last game 1938 Furman lost all 4
Georgetown played in 1924 Furman won that one
Lehigh first played 1965 played twice during the regular season. Furman 2-0 and we played during the 2001 playoffs.

It would be great to play an Ivy and of course the Patriot scheduling starts again in 2008:hurray:

[LBPop]

Georgetown played in 1924 Furman won that one


And the Hoyas have been itching for a rematch for more than 80 years! ;)

[OL FU]

And the Hoyas have been itching for a rematch for more than 80 years! ;)

Right after we get one against Bucknell:eek:

Maybe you should just give us that one. :smiley_wi :o

[ngineer]

Right after we get one against Bucknell:eek:

Maybe you should just give us that one. :smiley_wi :o

The Bison were a real power back in the mid-30's. They were one of the two original teams to play in the Orange Bowl..:read:

[Pard4Life]

You're right on these days, 13 - there has been nothing "on paper" for the last several seasons.

It seems that Lafayette and Lehigh are the only PL teams that have Ivys heavily interwoven into the schedule. I know the rest of the league plays Ivys, but only on average two, maybe three it seems.

If it wasn't for Columbia jumping ship, our entire OOC in 2006 would be against Ivy teams. Now only if we added Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth to our schedule we would be eligible for the Ivy title this year :rolleyes:

I don't know Lehigh off the top of my head right now, but they usually consist of playing Harvard, Yale, Princeton, sometimes UPenn.

Colgate pairs with Cornell, Princeton, Dartmouth.

Holy Cross with Harvard... Dartmouth at times?

Bucknell with UPenn, Columbia.

Fordham.. Columbia

G'town.. no real pattern yet

It seems like Brown is the team who avoids this PL-Ivy axis.

Lafayette definetely needs to drop our Ivys down to three, sometimes four, and play some other teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Keep in mind that Brown/URI (The Governor's Cup) and Dartmouth/UNH (Granite Trophy) use up one valuable Iv OOC game a year. Dartmouth/UNH was resumed only just recently, but the Governor's Cup has been going on for a very long time.

It's also worthy of note that Fordham in the past 6 years has played Brown, and Brown has also played Towson (when they were PL) and now Georgetown in 2006, so I wouldn't say they were "ducking" the PL. Similarly, Dartmouth has played Colgate and Holy Cross every year for the past 6 years (except 2001).

[Fordham]

That's how Fordham built up in the early years after moving to I-AA - they played Villanova, Hofstra, Richmond, and while some of the games were not pretty, I think it toughened the kids and lifted the sights of the program a bit.

Although I long for the days in the early 90's when our OOC was Hofstra, Harvard, Princeton, Brown, 'Nova, etc., I don't know you could say that it helped us out overall. Our program only turned the corner when we had the right guy at the helm and to the extent that Clawson was able to influence the skid, he always preferred to go the mid-major route overall. Wins are wins was the philosophy and the ones against conference opponents were the ones that mattered. Anything that made you hurt or weary in between playing your conference foes was only a negative.

Not saying I like the philosophy but it's the one followed by the only coach to really do anything at Fordham since we became a Playoff Conference team.


It seems that Lafayette and Lehigh are the only PL teams that have Ivys heavily interwoven into the schedule. I know the rest of the league plays Ivys, but only on average two, maybe three it seems.

...

Fordham.. Columbia

...

It seems like Brown is the team who avoids this PL-Ivy axis.

Brown has actually been on our skid the past few years and they're due back on in '08. It seems that we're the closest thing to some side action that Brown gets in the PL.

[Fordham]

It seems that Lafayette and Lehigh are the only PL teams that have Ivys heavily interwoven into the schedule. I know the rest of the league plays Ivys, but only on average two, maybe three it seems.

If it wasn't for Columbia jumping ship, our entire OOC in 2006 would be against Ivy teams. Now only if we added Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth to our schedule we would be eligible for the Ivy title this year :rolleyes:

I don't know Lehigh off the top of my head right now, but they usually consist of playing Harvard, Yale, Princeton, sometimes UPenn.

Colgate pairs with Cornell, Princeton, Dartmouth.

Holy Cross with Harvard... Dartmouth at times?

Bucknell with UPenn, Columbia.

Fordham.. Columbia

G'town.. no real pattern yet

It seems like Brown is the team who avoids this PL-Ivy axis.

Lafayette definetely needs to drop our Ivys down to three, sometimes four, and play some other teams.


I was surprised to see HC have 3 Ivies and an A10 opponent in their OOC. That's a nice schedule imo.

Day Date Opponent Location TV Outcome/Time
Sat 09/02/06 Georgetown * Washington, D.C. TBA
Sat 09/09/06 Northeastern Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 09/16/06 Harvard Cambridge, Mass. TBA
Sat 09/23/06 Marist Poughkeepsie, N.Y. TBA
Sat 09/30/06 Fordham *(Homecoming) Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 10/07/06 Brown Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 10/14/06 Dartmouth Hanover, N.H. TBA
Sat 10/21/06 Lafayette * Easton, Pa. TBA
Sat 10/28/06 Lehigh *
(Family Weekend) Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 11/04/06 Bucknell * Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 11/11/06 Colgate * Hamilton, N.Y. TBA



* Patriot League games
Home games, shaded in gray, played at Fitton Field

[Pard4Life]

Brown has actually been on our skid the past few years and they're due back on in '08. It seems that we're the closest thing to some side action that Brown gets in the PL.

I was pretty sure that Fordham was missing a second Ivy, but I didn't think that it was Brown. I think G'town plays Brown this year, so Brown is coming back into the mix more than just one game per year.

[Pard4Life]

I was surprised to see HC have 3 Ivies and an A10 opponent in their OOC. That's a nice schedule imo.

Day Date Opponent Location TV Outcome/Time
Sat 09/02/06 Georgetown * Washington, D.C. TBA
Sat 09/09/06 Northeastern Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 09/16/06 Harvard Cambridge, Mass. TBA
Sat 09/23/06 Marist Poughkeepsie, N.Y. TBA
Sat 09/30/06 Fordham *(Homecoming) Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 10/07/06 Brown Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 10/14/06 Dartmouth Hanover, N.H. TBA
Sat 10/21/06 Lafayette * Easton, Pa. TBA
Sat 10/28/06 Lehigh *
(Family Weekend) Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 11/04/06 Bucknell * Worcester, Mass. TBA
Sat 11/11/06 Colgate * Hamilton, N.Y. TBA



* Patriot League games
Home games, shaded in gray, played at Fitton Field

Yes this is a very nice schedule. This is the exact format I wish to see Lafayette adopt... the six conference games, an A-10, three Ivy games, and a MAAC/NEC game, fourth Ivy game if the schedule allows 12 games.

[LBPop]

I think G'town plays Brown this year, so Brown is coming back into the mix more than just one game per year.

Yep, second year in a row for Brown--plus they go to Columbia. Then in 2007 the Hoyas get Penn, Yale and Cornell. There's also one open date...any other Ivys out there. ;)