FCS Playoff Expansion to 24???

[GeauxLions94]

Link (http://64.246.64.33/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4425955)

Sure is better than playing in Boise in late December in the Idaho Famous Baked Potato Bowl xrolleyesx


"The playoffs are our subdivision's biggest asset," Viverito said. "Success in the playoffs is the primary goal of ours every season. Expansion to 20 teams was a very important step to giving more of our teams that opportunity. There's still more deserving teams that deserve that opportunity to play in the postseason. It's certainly our league goal to work for continuing bracket expansion."

"Playoffs are exciting, it just creates that atmosphere on campus that you want with your football program," Southern Illinois coach Dale Lennon said. "It's a fun thing to be a part of, so if you can make more opportunities, I think all the better."

[eagle07]

Hmm, it will inevitably happen, just "when" as the article says.... mmmmm baked potato bowl.......

[mocman1990]

I go back and forth on the 24 team playoff idea. While it might dilute the quality of the event a little bit, it is still, by percentage, a very small amount of the overall pool that gets to go to the playoffs.

How many FCS playoff eligible team are there (just wondering what percentage make it)? I keep with SoCon football and some OVC since I am in Tennessee, but I don't keep up enough with FCS overall to know which conference send teams and which don't (I am sure with the knowledge of this board, someone will have the number immediately at hand).

[mocman1990]

And, of course, many coaches (though not all) should like the idea. Playoff berth = job security.

Just like FBS bowl game = job security and making the NCAA tournament in basketball = job security.

And for most coaches, it also mean contract bonuses (I assume most coaches have a contract clause for a bonus when they make the playoff, win a title, etc)

[henfan]

Still waiting for the NCAA to simply cancel the regular season in favor of a single elimination tournament. Everybody makes the playoffs and the losers go home with juiceboxes.xthumbsupx

[LetsGoNova]

What expanding the playoffs does is reduces the penalty for playing a FBS game OOC. That additional loss, often taken on for financial reasons, has kept many a deserving team out of the playoffs. This opens the door for more 7-4 teams from strong conferences to get in, which is good, IMO.

[DFW HOYA]

You would need 12 conferences to justify a 24 team playoff in the eyes of the NCAA.

[GaSouthern]

I really hope they don't expand the playoffs anymore.

[NHwildEcat]

Another expansion would only mean an easier way into the tourney for UNH...let's keep that streak going!

[danefan]

Yup. Need to have at least 50% AQs.

More likely to get to 22 as the next step, adding just the PFL and one AQ.

[eagle07]

We would have less validation in our complaints about 2 MEAC teams getting invites if there was a field of 24 ;)

[apaladin]

What expanding the playoffs does is reduces the penalty for playing a FBS game OOC. That additional loss, often taken on for financial reasons, has kept many a deserving team out of the playoffs. This opens the door for more 7-4 teams from strong conferences to get in, which is good, IMO.

Not really, the committee has said FBS losses do not hurt playoff chances, they pretty much ignore them. Remember a few years ago ASU had 2 bad FBS losses and got a #2 seed.

[TexasTerror]

Ugh... do we have to take on the Pioneer?


The PFL would gain an automatic qualifier if the playoff field increases to 22 teams. Coaches across the FCS, though, generally support a 24-team field, which would add the PFL champ and three more at-large qualifiers.

Even if we hit 24 teams without giving out another AQ - the Pioneer would still struggle to make it in.

[Professor Chaos]

You would need 12 conferences to justify a 24 team playoff in the eyes of the NCAA.


Yup. Need to have at least 50% AQs.

More likely to get to 22 as the next step, adding just the PFL and one AQ.

The NCAA rule is you have to have at least 50% at large bids in a postseason tournament. Hence the NCAA men's basketball tournament having 31 AQs and 37 at larges. So they could easily expand to 24 without even giving the PFL an autobid although you would assume they would if that were to be the case.

[danefan]

The NCAA rule is you have to have at least 50% at large bids in a postseason tournament. Hence the NCAA men's basketball tournament having 31 AQs and 37 at larges. So they could easily expand to 24 without even giving the PFL an autobid although you would assume they would if that were to be the case.

That is the NCAA rule, but football follows "guidance" that the field is going to be 50-50. I believe that restriction is within the championship committee handbook.

[superman7515]

That is the NCAA rule, but football follows "guidance" that the field is going to be 50-50. I believe that restriction is within the championship committee handbook.

It is not.


for the Division I Football Championship at least 50 percent of the bracket shall be reserved for atlarge selections, and no more than 50 percent of the bracket shall be available for automatic qualification of eligible conferences.

[dgtw]

Are the Ivy and SWAC considered to have autobids, even though they don't use them?

[bojeta]

What expanding the playoffs does is reduces the penalty for playing a FBS game OOC. That additional loss, often taken on for financial reasons, has kept many a deserving team out of the playoffs. This opens the door for more 7-4 teams from strong conferences to get in, which is good, IMO.

I agree with this completely!! I'm definitely in favor of expanding to 24 teams. I also feel the FCS committee needs to emphasize and publicize the second round games as the Bowl games they are. A team that wins the second round is actually a bowl winner and even if they don't go all the way to Frisco and win the big one, they deserve that bowl recognition. It helps motivate players, creates fan base and publicizes FCS in general.

[TheValleyRaider]

Are the Ivy and SWAC considered to have autobids, even though they don't use them?

Nope. There's a finite amount of auto-bids available (10), and each year conferences must apply for them. Were the SWAC and Ivy to apply for a bid and get it, they would be taking an autobid from another conference

Neither conference shows signs of having any desire to do so in the near future, so if the conversation is about expanding the playoffs, the Pioneer is only other league out there

[Dane96]

You would need 12 conferences to justify a 24 team playoff in the eyes of the NCAA.

My reading of the rule says at least half of the teams need to come from automatic berths. That is different than saying you can only have 24 berths if there are 12 leagues.

[superman7515]

My reading of the rule says at least half of the teams need to come from automatic berths. That is different than saying you can only have 24 berths if there are 12 leagues.

Again, that is not what the rule says at all...


for the Division I Football Championship at least 50 percent of the bracket shall be reserved for atlarge selections, and no more than 50 percent of the bracket shall be available for automatic qualification of eligible conferences.

It says NO MORE than 50% of the bracket can come from auto-qualifiers and AT LEAST 50% has to be at-large, but nowhere does it say AT LEAST half must come from auto-qualifiers.

[dgtw]

Before last year there were 16 playoff teams. Did only eight leagues have autos then? Which leagues were new in 2010? With the Great West folding, wouldn't that open a spot for the Pioneer?

[UAalum72]

Big South and Northeast were new for 2010. The Great West has not had an autobid (didn't have the six teams needed to be eligible)

[frozennorth]

Imo if you can't win your conference, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs. Aka no at large bids. I'm in favor of a 4-8 team playoff. Of course $ > integrity.

[crossfire07]

Are the Ivy and SWAC considered to have autobids, even though they don't use them?

Both conferences chose not to participate in the playoffs. The Ivy league is centered on education. This article from a few years back describes one persons view as to why the SWAC doesn't.

"The SWAC would far prefer to engage comparable talent from their own conference or a lower division for a money-making venture than to forfeit it for an unknown result in playoff competition. To Duer Sharp and his constituents, it likely that their success is never measured by their national standing, but by their regional drawing power and its ability to draw national funding opportunities. But until the parity in the SWAC rises to a point of money-making and attention-turning throughout its ranks, the playoffs will rightly be exchanged for payoffs."

http://www.hbcudigest.com/why-the-swac-will-never-play-in-the-fcs-playoffs/

[Tod]

Imo if you can't win your conference, you don't deserve to be in the playoffs. Aka no at large bids. I'm in favor of a 4-8 team playoff. Of course $ > integrity.

That's not integrity. Do you really think that a champion from a weaker conference is more deserving than a second place, 9-2 CAA team? It makes no sense to be in a 13 team Big Sky Conference if only one team can go to the playoffs. Under your plan, you'd see every conference break up into six team conferences (at least if they could) to ensure a better chance to make the playoffs.

Same with BBall. Can the Big Sky champions knock off the second place Big East team? Of course not (the vast, vast majority of the time). So who's more deserving?

[Tribal]

I really hope they don't expand the playoffs anymore.

I wished they hadn't expanded it last year. Didn't work so well for my Tribe.

[whoanellie]

haa when your sitting @ 4th place in the SoCon you will be chirping for those extra berths
I really hope they don't expand the playoffs anymore.

[frozennorth]

That's not integrity. Do you really think that a champion from a weaker conference is more deserving than a second place, 9-2 CAA team? It makes no sense to be in a 13 team Big Sky Conference if only one team can go to the playoffs. Under your plan, you'd see every conference break up into six team conferences (at least if they could) to ensure a better chance to make the playoffs.

Same with BBall. Can the Big Sky champions knock off the second place Big East team? Of course not (the vast, vast majority of the time). So who's more deserving?no they can't which is why in my ideal world, you have an 8 team basketball tournament, and 4 team fcs and fbs tournies. If big sky champions (or whoever) can't compete with other conferences, why are they even there?

$$$$$

[NHwildEcat]

no they can't which is why in my ideal world, you have an 8 team basketball tournament, and 4 team fcs and fbs tournies. If big sky champions (or whoever) can't compete with other conferences, why are they even there?

$$$$$

Sure $$$ play a role in all decisions made...everywhere for everything, BUT they (Big Sky or otherwise) are there because its about competition. If schools followed your thoughts then there would only be maybe 40 schools in all of the FCS and the rest would simply drop down to D2? Or get rid of their programs? I am sorry, but I think you miss the whole point of athletic competition. Sure some schools cannot win...blah, blah, blah. But they deserve the right to walk onto the field and play...you forget that college sports are for students to have a chance to continue their athletic success, its not all about winning it all for every team every year.

Only allowing conference winners...(and in your point of view- from relevant conferences) into a tournament would mean there would only be 4 entrants into the FCS playoffs, which is simply not as enjoyable for anybody. No one wants only three playoffs games total to decide a champion...we want to see a team come out and grind out wins for 4 weeks in a row, until one team is left standing. That is how we got such a fabulous game this past year for the title.

[appfan2008]

I think we were good at a symetrical 16 teams 20 is still growing on me but 24 is just too high of a percentage of eligible teams in my opinion...

[Gil Dobie]

I like the 20 team playoff for the simple biased reason that NDSU made the playoff and won 2 games, including beating a seeded team. Had the system been at 16, NDSU would have sat at home and there would be nothing for the EWU fans on another site to jabber about during the offseason. ;)

[spdram]

Probably the better question when looking at percentage would be to ask, what percentage of FCS teams, that participate in the playoff system, are being chosen for the playoffs? But with that said 24 doesn't bother me, there are more schools joining our level of play. Now if we can make the playoffs something that truly makes money for the schools then we would have something. In addition, I think fewer schools would be considering a jump to the FBS level to play in the Toilet Bowl of the year.

[dgtw]

Someone mentioned in another thread there are 125 FCS teams this year. If you toss out the Ivy and SWAC, you are down to 107 teams. I'm not sure if that original number includes transitional teams like South Alabama or Georgia State. But that gives us a little under 20% of teams in FCS making the playoffs. That's a lower percentage than make professional playoffs in any of the major sports.

[bluehenbillk]

Everybody knew that once it jumped from 16 to 20, that the jump to 24 was inevitable. It's a great thing for the CAA, going to make a 7-4 season an automatic bid basically.....

[darell1976]

So whats the most amount of teams to be in the playoffs from one conference??

[Saint3333]

There's still more deserving teams that deserve that opportunity to play in the postseason.

If the purpose is the crown a champion NO THERE AREN'T. If the goal is to be little league and give everyone a trophy sure go ahead. 100% against 20 teams and I knew within 4 years we'd be at 24. There are only 75 teams that participate in the playoffs. That means 33% would make the playoffs. There is no money in the playoffs, it costs teams money, don't sale that $ argument here unless the NCAA is actually going to fund this, which we all know they won't. What a load of crap.

[superman7515]

So whats the most amount of teams to be in the playoffs from one conference??

They could select an entire conference to be in the playoffs if they wanted to.


2. There is no limit to the number of teams the committee may select from one
conference;

[dgtw]

If the purpose is the crown a champion NO THERE AREN'T. If the goal is to be little league and give everyone a trophy sure go ahead. 100% against 20 teams and I knew within 4 years we'd be at 24. There are only 75 teams that participate in the playoffs. That means 33% would make the playoffs. There is no money in the playoffs, it costs teams money, don't sale that $ argument here unless the NCAA is actually going to fund this, which we all know they won't. What a load of crap.

Would you rather be in the FBS, where every gets to go to a bowl game if they can win six games?

[TwoFeathers]

I vote no. If you're #21 on the list, are you really going to be upset that you didn't make the playoffs anyway?

[AshevilleApp2]

They could select an entire conference to be in the playoffs if they wanted to.

I think he asked which conference has gotten the most teams into the playoffs in a given season to date. My guess is that it's the CAA , but I don't know for sure.

[Professor Chaos]

I vote no. If you're #21 on the list, are you really going to be upset that you didn't make the playoffs anyway?
Yup. And when they expand to 24, #25 on the list is going to be enraged they didn't make it. It's the same deal as the NCAA basketball tournament, no matter how many teams they include (short of everyone) there will always be "snubs".

By my count there are 89 teams currently in the 10 autobid conferences that are playoff eligible (didn't count Texas State) and 13 teams in the GWC and Pioneer who are also playoff elgible. Next year when UND and USD will both join autobid leagues that will make 104 playoff eligible teams. 24 out of 104 (23%) isn't excessive to me. The top 8 teams, who are the true contenders, won't notice anthing different except the fact that they'll have an off week over Thanksgiving rather than hosting a lightly attended playoff game during a holiday weekend.

24 is a good number IMO, but let's leave it at that.

[darell1976]

Yup. And when they expand to 24, #25 on the list is going to be enraged they didn't make it. It's the same deal as the NCAA basketball tournament, no matter how many teams they include (short of everyone) there will always be "snubs".

By my count there are 89 teams currently in the 10 autobid conferences that are playoff eligible (didn't count Texas State) and 13 teams in the GWC and Pioneer who are also playoff elgible. Next year when UND and USD will both join autobid leagues that will make 104 playoff eligible teams. 24 out of 104 (23%) isn't excessive to me. The top 8 teams, who are the true contenders, won't notice anthing different except the fact that they'll have an off week after Thanksgiving rather than hosting a lightly attended playoff game during a holiday weekend.

24 is a good number IMO, but let's leave it at that.

Compare that to the NCAA Basketball tourny out of 345 (give or take a couple not eligible) 68 make it thats 20%

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I just don't see any cogent argument against this expansion. The playoffs already span 5 Saturdays, what difference does it make adding a couple of games to a round that already exists? Because some playoff purists have a totally arbitrary number about what is too big? Go ahead and expand the playoffs again. Might as well if it is going to last 5 rounds anyways.

[bluehenbillk]

So whats the most amount of teams to be in the playoffs from one conference??

The CAA landed 6 in a 16-team field before, I think that's the highest from one league.

[AshevilleApp2]

The CAA landed 6 in a 16-team field before, I think that's the highest from one league.

And there you have it!

[Saint3333]

Would you rather be in the FBS, where every gets to go to a bowl game if they can win six games?

The post season in the FBS isn't as good as the post season at the FCS level, there is no debate about that.

Expanding the playoffs cheapens the "accomplishment" and 16 teams were enough to crown a champion. It is hypocritical to look down upon the bowl games while wanting to expand the playoffs.

[RabidRabbit]

Are the Ivy and SWAC considered to have autobids, even though they don't use them?

They could have them upon request. The SWAC would have to skip the East/West title game, and the SU/GSU game would hae to be played before the selection announcement. So far, neither league has changed it mind.

[DetroitFlyer]

The post season in the FBS isn't as good as the post season at the FCS level, there is no debate about that.

Expanding the playoffs cheapens the "accomplishment" and 16 teams were enough to crown a champion. It is hypocritical to look down upon the bowl games while wanting to expand the playoffs.

Well, I am just going to have to disagree.... MILLIONS of folks across the country watch the FBS bowl games. Virtually no one watches the FCS playoffs.... Yeah, it must really be something terrible.... I guess folks just like to watch terrible things on TV. Who knew? Glad there is "no debate" on this issue....

[NHwildEcat]

Well, I am just going to have to disagree.... MILLIONS of folks across the country watch the FBS bowl games. Virtually no one watches the FCS playoffs.... Yeah, it must really be something terrible.... I guess folks just like to watch terrible things on TV. Who knew? Glad there is "no debate" on this issue....

So you like the Meineke Car Care Bowl and the Papa Johns.com Bowl? Some bowl games are quite entertaining...but they accomplish nothing. There is no real national champion...2 teams get picked by a machine and they are the only teams with a shot at a title? Right. FCS playoffs arent watched because they are not the higher profiled schools...simple as that.

[Professor Chaos]

The post season in the FBS isn't as good as the post season at the FCS level, there is no debate about that.

Expanding the playoffs cheapens the "accomplishment" and 16 teams were enough to crown a champion. It is hypocritical to look down upon the bowl games while wanting to expand the playoffs.
It's also hypocritical to knock the BCS way of crowning a national champion while at the same time saying that there shouldn't be an expanded playoff field in the FCS because it cheapens a team's regular season accomplishments. BCS apologists use the same argument saying how playoffs "cheapen" the regular season but I don't think it holds water in that scenario or this one. Any program worth their salt isn't satisfied with making the 20 (or 24) team playoff field, it's winning in the playoffs that is the judge of a successful or unsuccessful season. Last year two teams that could've easily been left out of a 16 team field (Georgia Southern and NDSU) made some pretty good waves in the playoffs. If there are 24 quality teams out there, and I think there is most years, I have no qualms about having that many teams make the playoffs and it allows more fans in FCS football to experience the enjoyment of playoff football.