AGS Preseason Poll 2011

[AGSPoll]

1 Eastern Washington Eagles 1182 (35)
2 Georgia Southern Eagles 1088 (6)
3 William & Mary Tribe 1081 (4)
4 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1059 (3)
5 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 978
6 Montana State Bobcats 884
7 Wofford Terriers 830
8 North Dakota State Bison 749
9 Northern Iowa Panthers 731
10 New Hampshire Wildcats 703
11 Jacksonville State Gamecocks 633
12 Montana Grizzlies 526
13 Villanova Wildcats 513 (1)
14 Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 496
15 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 429
16 Richmond Spiders 375
17 James Madison Dukes 365
18 Chattanooga Mocs 363
19 Liberty Flames 309
20 Cal Poly Mustangs 244
21 South Carolina State Bulldogs 230
22 Southeast Missouri State Redhawks 188
23 Southern Illinois Salukis 187
24 Central Arkansas Bears 163
25 Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 127


Other Receiving Votes:

McNeese State Cowboys 125, Pennsylvania Quakers 114, Western Illinois Leathernecks 100, Southern Utah Thunderbirds 98, Indiana State Sycamores 60, Eastern Kentucky Colonels 57, Old Dominion Monarchs 47, Florida A&M Rattlers 45, Harvard Crimson 44, South Dakota State Jackrabbits 41, Furman Paladins 33, Robert Morris Colonials 27, Jacksonville Dolphins 26, Murray State Racers 22, Weber State Wildcats 19, Elon Phoenix 19

[TexasTerror]

Turnout was a bit low, but registration is still open through til August, yea? I am sure we can get those numbers up...

As far as the Southland teams, I think SFA and UCA were a bit on the overrated side. UCA may be in the top three of the league, but I have them at No. 4 behind some combination of McNeese, N'western St and SHSU...

[BEAR]

Turnout was a bit low, but registration is still open through til August, yea? I am sure we can get those numbers up...

As far as the Southland teams, I think SFA and UCA were a bit on the overrated side. UCA may be in the top three of the league, but I have them at No. 4 behind some combination of McNeese, N'western St and SHSU...

Looks like SHSU is ranked correctly though. Not ranked and shouldn't be. Just my opinion. McNeese will yet again be the gold standard of the league.

[Cocky]

If we are the fourth place team in the OVC then the conference is stronger than ever. Hard to believe JSU wasnt in the top 25.

[WestCoastAggie]

If we are the fourth place team in the OVC then the conference is stronger than ever. Hard to believe JSU wasnt in the top 25.

That's easier to believe than Jacksonville State not even in the top 25. Did people get them confused with Jackson State and Jacksonville, again?

And do not sleep on FAMU and their QB.

[Saint3333]

Nova gets a first place vote? Who's screening these rankings? Their losses remind me of Richmond last year. It will be very difficult for them to make the playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That's easier to believe than Jacksonville State not even in the top 25. Did people get them confused with Jackson State and Jacksonville, again?

And do not sleep on FAMU and their QB.

Jacksonville St. should be in there and I'm looking into what happened because they are on almost every ballot so there much be some problem with the spreadsheet recognizing JSU and not tabulating it correctly.

Thanks for pointing that out and I'll get back to you guys when I have an answer and repost the results.

[JSUBison]

I'll admit I got sidetracked this weekend and didn't vote. That is unacceptable and it will not happen again. xasswhipx

But having said that, I think overall the poll looks pretty good. Other than Jacksonville State needing to be in there.

[TexasTerror]

Looks like SHSU is ranked correctly though. Not ranked and shouldn't be. Just my opinion. McNeese will yet again be the gold standard of the league.

I am not being bias in the least bit since SHSU finished 5-2 in SLC play and just three points shy (in an OT loss on a neutral field to SFA) of being SLC champions. Their QB and RB were both underclassmen and the team does not lose much offensively.

SHSU has UCA and NWST at home with toughest league game at McNeese. Very favorable schedule and they tend to lose games to Pokes at home or away. Even have dangerous Nicholls at home. If SHSU can defend home field and pick up a win in Hammond, they'll be fine.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I found the problem on Jax St. and am in the process of fixing it. Will have this updated soon.

I had them as Gamecock in the ballots and the validation was looking for Gamecocks.xlolx

What a dummy.

[WestCoastAggie]

This is why they should be called the fighting chickens.

xlolx

[Milktruck74]

If we are the fourth place team in the OVC then the conference is stronger than ever. Hard to believe JSU wasnt in the top 25.

You got points from me....I don't think you should be top five, but I fully expected to see a solid 16-20. I cant be the only idiot out there that thinks you guys have a pretty solid team. Shoot on PreSeason Polls, you should crack the top twenty on Name recognition and program history.

[NDSUFREAK]

Bring on football season!!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Where's Penn?

[Cocky]

I wouldnt put us top 5 either. Same storyline good talent not so great coaching. JSU wins games on raw talent, the players are as good as thier high school coach made them.

[DJKyR0]

OK, who had UND on any poll?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Where's Penn?

Oh Christ. Let me go check on that one too.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Where's Penn?

Similar problem. I had them as Penn Quackers on the input side but had it as Pennsylvania Quakers on the other side.

I'm going to go through each team and check it for comparison on both sheets but those are the two I remember needing to fix rom a previous time.

If you see anything else let me know.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Nova gets a first place vote? Who's screening these rankings? Their losses remind me of Richmond last year. It will be very difficult for them to make the playoffs.

You're exactly right but I think it's even worse for 2011 villanova. At least we returned 3 all Americans on defense!

[darell1976]

OK, who had UND on any poll?

I would like to thank the 25 people who voted for North Dakota!!! (I was actually not one of them).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I would like to thank the 25 people who voted for North Dakota!!! (I was actually not one of them).

One voter contacted me that he had accidentally chosen UND when he meant the position to go to NDSU so it changed slightly.

[darell1976]

One voter contacted me that he had accidentally chosen UND when he meant the position to go to NDSU so it changed slightly.

Must not be a fan from around this area.xlolxxlolx

Come on week 1!!!!!!!!!

[Tribal]

Bethune-Cookman will play a FBS team (won't count against them when they lose) and SC State. That's it. Look for them to climb up the poll each week when the higher-ranked teams lose to considerably more difficult opponents. Same for Liberty. CAA, SoCon and BSC teams have to play at least 5 exceptional teams every season. What's the chance of GSU, ASU, W&M, UD, UR, JMU, UNH, EWU, Mont, Mont St, Nova, NDSU, or UND sweeping their conference opponents? B-C could very well lose just one game (U of Miami) and sneak into the top 3 by season's end. I'm not holding this against B-C; they have to play their conference foes. I just hope Hampton shows up this season.

[darell1976]

Bethune-Cookman will play a FBS team (won't count against them when they lose) and SC State. That's it. Look for them to climb up the poll each week when the higher-ranked teams lose to considerably more difficult opponents. Same for Liberty. CAA, SoCon and BSC teams have to play at least 5 exceptional teams every season. What's the chance of GSU, ASU, W&M, UD, UR, JMU, UNH, EWU, Mont, Mont St, Nova, NDSU, or UND sweeping their conference opponents? B-C could very well lose just one game (U of Miami) and sneak into the top 3 by season's end. I'm not holding this against B-C; they have to play their conference foes. I just hope Hampton shows up this season.

UND hosts Cal Poly and South Dakota...2 teams we beat at home in 2009, we are at SUU and UC Davis. We usually play SUU close and so it may come down to the UC Davis game whether we sweep the GWFC or not IMO.

[GoAgs72]

Somehow Cal Poly gets ranked here every year, regardless of their record, when fully equivalent teams like Southern Utah, Sac State and UC Davis don't. I guess the secret is beating Montana?

[superman7515]

Bethune-Cookman will play a FBS team (won't count against them when they lose) and SC State. That's it. Look for them to climb up the poll each week when the higher-ranked teams lose to considerably more difficult opponents. Same for Liberty. CAA, SoCon and BSC teams have to play at least 5 exceptional teams every season. What's the chance of GSU, ASU, W&M, UD, UR, JMU, UNH, EWU, Mont, Mont St, Nova, NDSU, or UND sweeping their conference opponents? B-C could very well lose just one game (U of Miami) and sneak into the top 3 by season's end. I'm not holding this against B-C; they have to play their conference foes. I just hope Hampton shows up this season.

South Carolina State and Florida A&M won't be pushovers for Bethune-Cookman this season, nor were they last year for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if North Carolina A&T and/or Norfolk State catch one of the three off-guard either. Delaware State, Howard, Morgan State, and Savannah State you can pretty much write off today.

[NHwildEcat]

Bethune-Cookman will play a FBS team (won't count against them when they lose) and SC State. That's it. Look for them to climb up the poll each week when the higher-ranked teams lose to considerably more difficult opponents. Same for Liberty. CAA, SoCon and BSC teams have to play at least 5 exceptional teams every season. What's the chance of GSU, ASU, W&M, UD, UR, JMU, UNH, EWU, Mont, Mont St, Nova, NDSU, or UND sweeping their conference opponents? B-C could very well lose just one game (U of Miami) and sneak into the top 3 by season's end. I'm not holding this against B-C; they have to play their conference foes. I just hope Hampton shows up this season.

If they do what you say then sure they will rise in the poll, however its more likely to be top 10 and not top 3! No matter their record, they will never be a top 3 team, if you put them in the SoCon or CAA they would not even be a top 3 in that conference...losing to difficult opponents is more worthy then beating cupcakes in your own conference.

[Tribe4SF]

Would love to hear the thinking from the voter who had Villanova #1. They obviously are not well informed about the Wildcats status heading into preseason. If you're going to vote a team #1, you should be able to identify their strengths.

[NDSUFREAK]

Must not be a fan from around this area.xlolxxlolx

Come on week 1!!!!!!!!!

boy I would say. that is a definite no-no here! and how hard is it to mess up NDSU and UND? How many people mess up montana and montana state? I don't get it.

[T-Dog]

I'm registered but refused to vote on a poll 3 months before the season starts. I'll only vote once games are played.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm registered but refused to vote on a poll 3 months before the season starts. I'll only vote once games are played.

I'm in the same boat as you TDog in that I don't put a lot of stock in them but I voted anyway because it does give something to discuss to be more knowledgeable about some of the teams being missed or under ranked.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm in the same boat as you TDog in that I don't put a lot of stock in them but I voted anyway because it does give something to discuss to be more knowledgeable about some of the teams being missed or under ranked.

I consider myself a very knowlegable fan and even i struggled to fill out my bracket. It's very difficult to gather info on enough FCS teams to put together a top notch preseason poll imo.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I have a question about the Ivies and SWAC. Why should they even be considered for the ballot when they do not participate in playoffs or schedule a variety of OOC opponents? I recognize there are good football teams in both conferences, but if they choose to be exclusive, does that give a voter grounds to consider them excluded?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I have a question about the Ivies and SWAC. Why should they even be considered for the ballot when they do not participate in playoffs or schedule a variety of OOC opponents? I recognize there are good football teams in both conferences, but if they choose to be exclusive, does that give a voter grounds to consider them excluded?

Because it's about the Top 25 teams in the country.

[FCS Go!]

Cliff,

The poll is supposed to be about who are the best teams in FCS, not "who plays well with others". Regardless it's usually not an issue :).

[JSU02]

I have a question about the Ivies and SWAC. Why should they even be considered for the ballot when they do not participate in playoffs or schedule a variety of OOC opponents? I recognize there are good football teams in both conferences, but if they choose to be exclusive, does that give a voter grounds to consider them excluded?

If the only reason to have polls was for playoff selection, then I would agree. But they are basically just a ranking of who people consider the best teams to be each season. Exclusive scheduling by some conferences does make it harder to compare those schools to others, and if a poll participant wishes to exclude a team for that reason, then they can certainly do that.

[HailSzczur]

Would love to hear the thinking from the voter who had Villanova #1. They obviously are not well informed about the Wildcats status heading into preseason. If you're going to vote a team #1, you should be able to identify their strengths.

I wouldn't be looking for too indepth of a reasoning behind that one....its just plain dumb

[JMUNJ08]

Got caught up in the busy holiday weekend and didn't turn on my comp! Will be back when the season starts! Was one of those voters who did not miss a week last year so hope for a repeat this year (minus the EARLY preseason poll)

[Tribal]

If they do what you say then sure they will rise in the poll, however its more likely to be top 10 and not top 3! No matter their record, they will never be a top 3 team, if you put them in the SoCon or CAA they would not even be a top 3 in that conference...losing to difficult opponents is more worthy then beating cupcakes in your own conference.

I may not remember this correctly but I recall B-C breaking the top 5 last season. I know SC State was up there, too.

[Skjellyfetti]

I have a question about the Ivies and SWAC. Why should they even be considered for the ballot when they do not participate in playoffs or schedule a variety of OOC opponents? I recognize there are good football teams in both conferences, but if they choose to be exclusive, does that give a voter grounds to consider them excluded?

I don't include them in my poll for that reason.

[FCS Go!]

There are 5 teams I had on my ballot that didn't make the top 25 but only two of the five are in the "others recieving votes" listing. Anyone else notice something similar?

[TheDancinMonarch]

ODU with enough votes (none from me) for 32nd place. Jeez fellows why don't you put some pressure on us? We are in enough trouble as it is.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

WHY?

[Tribe4SF]

There are 5 teams I had on my ballot that didn't make the top 25 but only two of the five are in the "others recieving votes" listing. Anyone else notice something similar?

Yes. I had four rated who were not in top 25, and three of them do not appear in others receiving votes.

[Poly's Brutality]

Somehow Cal Poly gets ranked here every year, regardless of their record, when fully equivalent teams like Southern Utah, Sac State and UC Davis don't. I guess the secret is beating Montana?

A number of factors are considered. "Fully equivalent" is a matter of opinion. Certainly "good wins" helps. Your somewhat fortunate win in the last game last year was not enough for "full equivalence" this year, apparently.... xoopsx Having said that, ... - don't do that again. Should be a good one this year. "By Grabthar's hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged!"? xnodx

[WrenFGun]

I may not remember this correctly but I recall B-C breaking the top 5 last season. I know SC State was up there, too.

Hopefully voters will FINALLY learn that the MEAC is inflated constantly. It is brutal that they continue to be ranked where they are.

[WrenFGun]

1 Eastern Washington Eagles 1182 (35)
2 Georgia Southern Eagles 1088 (6)
3 William & Mary Tribe 1081 (4)
4 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1059 (3)
5 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 978
6 Montana State Bobcats 884
7 Wofford Terriers 830
8 North Dakota State Bison 749
9 Northern Iowa Panthers 731
10 New Hampshire Wildcats 703
11 Jacksonville State Gamecocks 633
12 Montana Grizzlies 526
13 Villanova Wildcats 513 (1)
14 Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 496
15 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 429
16 Richmond Spiders 375
17 James Madison Dukes 365
18 Chattanooga Mocs 363
19 Liberty Flames 309
20 Cal Poly Mustangs 244
21 South Carolina State Bulldogs 230
22 Southeast Missouri State Redhawks 188
23 Southern Illinois Salukis 187
24 Central Arkansas Bears 163
25 Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 127


Other Receiving Votes:

McNeese State Cowboys 125, Pennsylvania Quakers 114, Western Illinois Leathernecks 100, Southern Utah Thunderbirds 98, Indiana State Sycamores 60, Eastern Kentucky Colonels 57, Old Dominion Monarchs 47, Florida A&M Rattlers 45, Harvard Crimson 44, South Dakota State Jackrabbits 41, Furman Paladins 33, Robert Morris Colonials 27, Jacksonville Dolphins 26, Murray State Racers 22, Weber State Wildcats 19, Elon Phoenix 19

Not a lot of Delaware posters left on this board, but I'll be the first to say it; they are grossly overrated. I do not know how you rank this team 5th overall without Pat Devlin. Whoever replaces Devlin is a significant downgrade, and I think it would be foolish to think that AP is going to have the year he did last year without Devlin in there. It is no longer Devlin setting up AP; AP needs to setup the UD offense.

I think the defense can still be great, but it strikes me as risky.

Alternatively, IMO, Richmond is low. I'm sure they're losing a bit of talent, but they were incredible last year given how injured they were. I expect them to me much improved.

I think UNH is pretty much appropriately ranked where they are here, though they seem to generate minimal buzz as per the norm. Kevin Decker is an upgrade on RJ Toman at QB, and they return both Peters and Setian at RB, and are loaded at TE. They need to see what is left at WR besides Joey Orlando, and what they have at DB/S, but there is, as usual, a very solid squad here.

[Gil Dobie]

boy I would say. that is a definite no-no here! and how hard is it to mess up NDSU and UND? How many people mess up montana and montana state? I don't get it.

I had trouble with Delaware and Delaware St xlolx

[GaSouthern]

For GSU to make the playoffs with their schedule they are gonna need to play like the number 2 team in the nation, no room for errors. Alabama and a D-II on the schedule is a bad idea but we are stuck with it, just got to de-throne App state from the SoCon championship to make sure we get a bid to be safe, and we are playing in boone, this looks scary.

[89Hen]

Turnout was a bit low
Memorial Day weekend.

[darell1976]

I had trouble with Delaware and Delaware St xlolx

To be honest...I did too.xsmiley_wix

[GaSouthern]

Blue hens are one of the all time FCS great teams, State has not done anything of any value in the playoffs.

[GannonFan]

Not a lot of Delaware posters left on this board, but I'll be the first to say it; they are grossly overrated. I do not know how you rank this team 5th overall without Pat Devlin. Whoever replaces Devlin is a significant downgrade, and I think it would be foolish to think that AP is going to have the year he did last year without Devlin in there. It is no longer Devlin setting up AP; AP needs to setup the UD offense.

I think the defense can still be great, but it strikes me as risky.

Alternatively, IMO, Richmond is low. I'm sure they're losing a bit of talent, but they were incredible last year given how injured they were. I expect them to me much improved.

I think UNH is pretty much appropriately ranked where they are here, though they seem to generate minimal buzz as per the norm. Kevin Decker is an upgrade on RJ Toman at QB, and they return both Peters and Setian at RB, and are loaded at TE. They need to see what is left at WR besides Joey Orlando, and what they have at DB/S, but there is, as usual, a very solid squad here.

Not many UD posters here? Really?

As for UD, sure there'll be a downgrade at QB after having to replace Devlin, but it's not like we're going with a complete unknown either. Sasek is going to be the starter and he's already 2-0 as a de facto starter (one easy win over Duquesne, and then a pretty gutsy win over JMU, at JMU, after Devlin got hurt on the first play of the game - heck, Sasek even marched the Hens down the field late in the 4th, with some pretty nice scrambles, to set up the winning FG - and JMU had a pretty highly rated defense last year).

As for AP, remember, UD ran the ball about 60% of the time last year - AP was setting up Devlin a lot. And UD returns 4/5 of the best OL in the CAA last year, and the guy they don't return was generally considered the weakest of the bunch. Sasek doesn't have to be great for the UD offense to be very good.

Defensively is where the Hens could be in trouble as they replace all 4 starters in the backfield. The transfer from Maryland (Hunter) is the real deal, so that's one spot that seems to be fine, but the other 3 spots are all question marks until we see what the season brings. But there is plenty of guys returning from the front 7 so it shouldn't be too bad.

UD should be an easy playoff team this year. Maybe not national title contending, but should be a playoff team nonetheless.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Not a lot of Delaware posters left on this board, but I'll be the first to say it; they are grossly overrated. I do not know how you rank this team 5th overall without Pat Devlin. Whoever replaces Devlin is a significant downgrade, and I think it would be foolish to think that AP is going to have the year he did last year without Devlin in there. It is no longer Devlin setting up AP; AP needs to setup the UD offense.

I think the defense can still be great, but it strikes me as risky.

Alternatively, IMO, Richmond is low. I'm sure they're losing a bit of talent, but they were incredible last year given how injured they were. I expect them to me much improved.

I think UNH is pretty much appropriately ranked where they are here, though they seem to generate minimal buzz as per the norm. Kevin Decker is an upgrade on RJ Toman at QB, and they return both Peters and Setian at RB, and are loaded at TE. They need to see what is left at WR besides Joey Orlando, and what they have at DB/S, but there is, as usual, a very solid squad here.

You could be right on Delaware, but can you justify any of the teams below them that should be above them? I don't think I could. I do think all of GannonFan's points are valid but wouldn't be surprised to see AP have a 'sophomore slump' sans Devlin.

I think Richmond is too much of a wildcard to say if they are too high or low. Unfortunately, we probably won't know what type of wildcard they are until UNH comes down here on 9/24.

[Milktruck74]

I'm registered but refused to vote on a poll 3 months before the season starts. I'll only vote once games are played.

I realize that after the top 5 teams it is a craps shoot, but consider voting in the preseason poll an opportunity for the moderators to work out all the kinks in the system.

[RichH2]

Well, I admit I am waiting a bit to vote until I read a bit more on various teams, However a preseason poll is just that a guess. More importantly it is a fun project for the June July doldrums.

[Redbirdz]

Cocky, what are you talking about, not being in the top 25? Looks like we are No. 11.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Cocky, what are you talking about, not being in the top 25? Looks like we are No. 11.

There was a problem and it was corrected after he posted.

[cpalum]

Somehow Cal Poly gets ranked here every year, regardless of their record, when fully equivalent teams like Southern Utah, Sac State and UC Davis don't. I guess the secret is beating Montana?

I don't think it is quite fair to say "regardless of their record" Poly has played one of the tougher schedules in the country over the past few years and they have come up with some big wins.....The Montana win last year certainly did not hurt. I think they have deserved their ranking and in fact (yes I am biased) I think they will finish the season better than #20 in the country this year. However, I agree that Sac, UCD and especially SUU should be making appearances in the preseason polls.

[Anovafan]

I didn't even see this poll coming around, did a reminder email go out?

I surely hope the person who voted Nova #1 clicked it by error. Nova will be lucky to have a winning season this year. The 3 year run is over and it is now time to rebuild with a very young team.

[DG Cowboy]

Ursus,

When it is just getting out of the 40's in Montana today, I think you have an excuse for typos. You may need some original recipe Dr. Peppers.

I'm feeling pretty good about McNeese this year, unlike last summer, but I think I'll lay low until we do something good on the field.

[chattownmocs]

Not eligible but here is the way it should be IMO

1. Eastern Washington
2. William and Mary
3. Montana State
4. North Dakota State
5. New Hampshire
6. Chattanooga
7. Northern Iowa
8. Jacksonville State
9. Deleware
10. App State
11. Montana
12. Wofford
13. Richmond
14. Georgia Southern
15. Liberty
16. James Madison
17. Lehigh
18. Cal Poly
19. Southeast Missouri State
20. Elon
21. Villanova
22. Stephen F. Austin
23. Mcneese State
24. Penn
25. Furman

[Apphole]

Scoff! at your SoCon predictions. You would think since it's your own conference you would know more. Guess not. Rankings aside, any half way rational hierarchy would put Chatty behind GSU and App. And not only that you put GSU at 14?! This is by far the worst list I've seen yet. Even for a homer who no one takes seriously anymore.

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Scoff! at your SoCon predictions. You would think since it's your own conference you would know more. Guess not. Rankings aside, any half way rational hierarchy would put Chatty behind GSU and App. And not only that you put GSU at 14?! This is by far the worst list I've seen yet. Even for a homer who no one takes seriously anymore.

Seriously. How does GSU end up at 14 after making it the semi-finals in year 1 of a new offense with a new coach? We are returning all but one starters. We are w/o a doubt in the top 4.

And App. St. below William and Mary and Montana St.? App would CRUSH both of those teams. App should be around 5 or 6.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Scoff! at your SoCon predictions. You would think since it's your own conference you would know more. Guess not. Rankings aside, any half way rational hierarchy would put Chatty behind GSU and App. And not only that you put GSU at 14?! This is by far the worst list I've seen yet. Even for a homer who no one takes seriously anymore.

This is just a heads up for this thread and the FCS Discussion area in general...do not pull any bad feelings or dealings with each other from the smack threads and the other boards over to this one please.

By "please" there I mean absolutely do not do it.

That is not smack (too much) but it will be there shortly so stop that right now where it is at please.

See above for what I mean by "please".

[eaglesrback]

Not eligible but here is the way it should be IMO

1. Eastern Washington
2. William and Mary
3. Montana State
4. North Dakota State
5. New Hampshire
6. Chattanooga
7. Northern Iowa
8. Jacksonville State
9. Deleware
10. App State
11. Montana
12. Wofford
13. Richmond
14. Georgia Southern
15. Liberty
16. James Madison
17. Lehigh
18. Cal Poly
19. Southeast Missouri State
20. Elon
21. Villanova
22. Stephen F. Austin
23. Mcneese State
24. Penn
25. Furman

Please, put down the crack pipe for your own good.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Seriously. How does GSU end up at 14 after making it the semi-finals in year 1 of a new offense with a new coach? We are returning all but one starters. We are w/o a doubt in the top 4.

And App. St. below William and Mary and Montana St.? App would CRUSH both of those teams. App should be around 5 or 6.

Now this one right here is a good example of how to ask without getting it to head to the smack forum.

[ASUMountaineer]

Interesting, I had a few teams ranked that aren't in the poll. I think ASU is a bit high, I have the Mountaineers sixth. My top five were:

Eastern Washington
Georgia Southern
William and Mary
Montana State
Delaware

A preseason poll isn't worth much, but it is fun.

[sikolec]

Fun poll and looks pretty close to what I had. I did notice at least one team on my poll that isn't even in Others Receiving votes section...

Thanks for doing this.

[chattownmocs]

Seriously. How does GSU end up at 14 after making it the semi-finals in year 1 of a new offense with a new coach? We are returning all but one starters. We are w/o a doubt in the top 4.

And App. St. below William and Mary and Montana St.? App would CRUSH both of those teams. App should be around 5 or 6.

Yeah they made it to the semifinals, but in my opinion their regular season body of work didn't even merit a playoff spot. I thought I was doing them a favor by giving them a number 14 ranking. Sure they had a "great" win against ASU. If you can call it that. ASU is a program on the decline and was ripe for the picking last year. That wasn't the ASU from a few years ago. Other than that game GSU's regular season resume was awfully weak. You can say they showed they deserved it by the way they played in the postseason, but whos to say a number of teams who didnt make it couldnt have made a similar run? I expect them to be a little better than last year, and that is why I am ranking them at 14. So bring on the arguments that they were won of the top 4 teams because they made it to the semifinals. I'll counter with their 5 losses.

[GlassOnion]

Yeah they made it to the semifinals, but in my opinion their regular season body of work didn't even merit a playoff spot. I thought I was doing them a favor by giving them a number 14 ranking. Sure they had a "great" win against ASU. If you can call it that. ASU is a program on the decline and was ripe for the picking last year. That wasn't the ASU from a few years ago. Other than that game GSU's regular season resume was awfully weak. You can say they showed they deserved it by the way they played in the postseason, but whos to say a number of teams who didnt make it couldnt have made a similar run? I expect them to be a little better than last year, and that is why I am ranking them at 14. So bring on the arguments that they were won of the top 4 teams because they made it to the semifinals. I'll counter with their 5 losses.

If thats the way you want to play it, Chattanooga was 6-5, ABSOLUTELY did not deserve a playoff spot, lost to App at home(even though its on the decline,) with NO notable wins, and you saw fit to rank them #6.

Georgia Southern made it to 10-5, beat App at home, beat 3 teams in the playoffs, and return all but 1 starter, All with a new offense, and coaching staff, and you rank them 14?

Does that seem fair and objective to you?

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

Yeah they made it to the semifinals, but in my opinion their regular season body of work didn't even merit a playoff spot. I thought I was doing them a favor by giving them a number 14 ranking. Sure they had a "great" win against ASU. If you can call it that. ASU is a program on the decline and was ripe for the picking last year. That wasn't the ASU from a few years ago. Other than that game GSU's regular season resume was awfully weak. You can say they showed they deserved it by the way they played in the postseason, but whos to say a number of teams who didnt make it couldnt have made a similar run? I expect them to be a little better than last year, and that is why I am ranking them at 14. So bring on the arguments that they were won of the top 4 teams because they made it to the semifinals. I'll counter with their 5 losses.GSU had 4 losses goig into the playoffs, 1 was to a FBS bowl team, and all occurred early in the season during the first year of a new head coach's tenure, in the midst of learning a new system.
GSU improved in every week of the season last year. That's the mark of a good team, and one that was developing on the fly under a new coach. Not sure if you watched any of the playoffs last year, but those who did have no doubt that at the end of the season GSU was one of the top 4 teams in the nation. We plowed through the playoffs, and those 3 wins were by no means flukes. what you saw was a well-coached team, starting to believe in itself and the system, and peaking at the right time.
In terms of 2011, there is no reason to believe that the upward trend that we saw throughout last season will not continue. We have literally everybody coming back, some nice recruits, and another year under our belt in Monken's system.
The beauty of the playoff system is that the results are not debatable. GSU didn't make it into the top 4 through some subjective BS poll. GSU did it by fighting their way through 3 tough teams, and winning 2 very difficult road games in the playoffs. Semi-final in a playoff system means you are one of the top 4 teams. It as decided on the field. Therefore, there is no debate.
Lastly, 7 wins i a 20 in field is a legitimate playoff resume, especially when you consider that we beat the #1 team in the nation.

[bjtheflamesfan]

here is my ballot as it was submitted:

1: Eastern Washington Eagles
2: Appalachian State Mountaineers
3: Georgia Southern Eagles
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: William & Mary Tribe
7: North Dakota State Bison
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Wofford Terriers
11: South Carolina State Bulldogs
12: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
13: James Madison Dukes
14: Liberty Flames
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: Jacksonville State Gamecock
17: UMass Minutemen
18: Furman Paladins
19: Penn Quakers
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Western Illinois Leathernecks
24: Jacksonville Dolphins
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I had four teams that did not make teh top 25 but they all made it in ORV

[Apphole]

Ok other than the fact that we stopped winning the National Championship every year, how exactly are we in decline? We've won the last 6 conference championships, our attendance rises every year (excluding the monsoon 09 season) and our facilities have gone from one of the best 4 years ago, to the best, with more additions to come. I can see a discernable decline in the team over the past 4 years, but only because winning a national championship 6 years in a row is unrealistic (although I'm sure chattanoogamocs will predict UTC to pull this off in the coming years.). Saying our program is in decline is ridiculous. We are a rising FBS program not a declining FCS program. You were probably singing the same tune at halftime last year during our first game post-AE. Look how that game turned out.

[LeadBolt]

Seriously. How does GSU end up at 14 after making it the semi-finals in year 1 of a new offense with a new coach? We are returning all but one starters. We are w/o a doubt in the top 4.

And App. St. below William and Mary and Montana St.? App would CRUSH both of those teams. App should be around 5 or 6.

I would enjoy the opportunity to test your hypothesis with regard to W&M and App. State. I believe that it would be a great game and that neither team would "crush" the other. Common opponents last year were GSU, which beat W&M by 15 and App. State by 7 and Villanova which W&M beat by 7 and Villanova beat App State by 18. It would seem that which ever team was up on that given Saturday might win. That being said, I expect W&M will be somewhat stronger this year than last. I'm not sure about App. State.

[Tribe4SF]

here is my ballot as it was submitted:

1: Eastern Washington Eagles
2: Appalachian State Mountaineers
3: Georgia Southern Eagles
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: William & Mary Tribe
7: North Dakota State Bison
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Wofford Terriers
11: South Carolina State Bulldogs
12: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
13: James Madison Dukes
14: Liberty Flames
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: Jacksonville State Gamecock
17: UMass Minutemen
18: Furman Paladins
19: Penn Quakers
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Western Illinois Leathernecks
24: Jacksonville Dolphins
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I had four teams that did not make teh top 25 but they all made it in ORV

Simple oversight that New Hampshire does not appear?

[chattownmocs]

If thats the way you want to play it, Chattanooga was 6-5, ABSOLUTELY did not deserve a playoff spot, lost to App at home(even though its on the decline,) with NO notable wins, and you saw fit to rank them #6.

Georgia Southern made it to 10-5, beat App at home, beat 3 teams in the playoffs, and return all but 1 starter, All with a new offense, and coaching staff, and you rank them 14?

Does that seem fair and objective to you?

If Georgia Southern wasnt notable then why are you areguing that they should be ranked higher? BTW, don't they run the triple option? What makes you so sure that they are going to be so much more advanced offensively this year? It is what it is. I don't think Georgia Southern held any of their offense back a year ago.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Simple oversight that New Hampshire does not appear?

Was going to ask the same question

[sikolec]

here is my ballot as it was submitted:

1: Eastern Washington Eagles
2: Appalachian State Mountaineers
3: Georgia Southern Eagles
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: William & Mary Tribe
7: North Dakota State Bison
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Wofford Terriers
11: South Carolina State Bulldogs
12: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
13: James Madison Dukes
14: Liberty Flames
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: Jacksonville State Gamecock
17: UMass Minutemen
18: Furman Paladins
19: Penn Quakers
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Western Illinois Leathernecks
24: Jacksonville Dolphins
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I had four teams that did not make teh top 25 but they all made it in ORV

Where is UMass in ORV? Perhaps I am just blind. I also had them in my top 25 (that was the one team that I stated did not appear in the top 25 or others receiving votes)...

[chattownmocs]

Ok other than the fact that we stopped winning the National Championship every year, how exactly are we in decline? We've won the last 6 conference championships, our attendance rises every year (excluding the monsoon 09 season) and our facilities have gone from one of the best 4 years ago, to the best, with more additions to come. I can see a discernable decline in the team over the past 4 years, but only because winning a national championship 6 years in a row is unrealistic (although I'm sure chattanoogamocs will predict UTC to pull this off in the coming years.). Saying our program is in decline is ridiculous. We are a rising FBS program not a declining FCS program. You were probably singing the same tune at halftime last year during our first game post-AE. Look how that game turned out.

Your teams are getting weaker year by year. Thats how I can say it is in decline. You are not an FBS program. You are an FCS program.

[chattownmocs]

GSU had 4 losses goig into the playoffs, 1 was to a FBS bowl team, and all occurred early in the season during the first year of a new head coach's tenure, in the midst of learning a new system.
GSU improved in every week of the season last year. That's the mark of a good team, and one that was developing on the fly under a new coach. Not sure if you watched any of the playoffs last year, but those who did have no doubt that at the end of the season GSU was one of the top 4 teams in the nation. We plowed through the playoffs, and those 3 wins were by no means flukes. what you saw was a well-coached team, starting to believe in itself and the system, and peaking at the right time.
In terms of 2011, there is no reason to believe that the upward trend that we saw throughout last season will not continue. We have literally everybody coming back, some nice recruits, and another year under our belt in Monken's system.
The beauty of the playoff system is that the results are not debatable. GSU didn't make it into the top 4 through some subjective BS poll. GSU did it by fighting their way through 3 tough teams, and winning 2 very difficult road games in the playoffs. Semi-final in a playoff system means you are one of the top 4 teams. It as decided on the field. Therefore, there is no debate.
Lastly, 7 wins i a 20 in field is a legitimate playoff resume, especially when you consider that we beat the #1 team in the nation.

But the flaw of a watered down playoff system is that the regular season becomes less important. A hot team with favorable match ups can do some serious damage. There is nothing beautiful about a 20-team playoff system. It is every bit as fraudulent as the FBS system. As a matter of fact in the FBS at least an underserving team cannot get to a semifinal and parlay that into a number 2 ranking the next year. An 8 team playoff is more than enough.

[GlassOnion]

If Georgia Southern wasnt notable then why are you areguing that they should be ranked higher? BTW, don't they run the triple option? What makes you so sure that they are going to be so much more advanced offensively this year? It is what it is. I don't think Georgia Southern held any of their offense back a year ago.

No, YOU said GSU wasnt notable when you said they should never have been in the playoffs, therefore GSU's win against ASU was the only notable win. You cant have it both ways.

GSU in the first year back to the triple option made it to the semi's, with limited playcalling, players their coach never recruited, and lack of depth. They return 21 starters, and a great defense. That is why they deserve to be ranked higher. They beat 4 playoff teams (5 if you count the two games against Wofford, the same Wofford that completely dis-assembled the Mocs 45-14 and shut them out of the playoffs in the final week), Chattanooga beat one, that one not deserving of being in the playoffs according to you.

You ranking the Mocs more than twice as high is ludicrous. Way to show zero objectivity.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Simple oversight that New Hampshire does not appear?


yes...oversight on my part...Id probably slot them about 8 and shift everyone down one

[eaglemachine]

If Georgia Southern wasnt notable then why are you areguing that they should be ranked higher? BTW, don't they run the triple option? What makes you so sure that they are going to be so much more advanced offensively this year? It is what it is. I don't think Georgia Southern held any of their offense back a year ago.

Keep thinking that. The spring game had some new formations. We ran a very limited playbook in our first year back to the TO. Also, do not forget you play us in Paulson this year. Good luck coming out with a win.

[Saint3333]

I would enjoy the opportunity to test your hypothesis with regard to W&M and App. State. I believe that it would be a great game and that neither team would "crush" the other. Common opponents last year were GSU, which beat W&M by 15 and App. State by 7 and Villanova which W&M beat by 7 and Villanova beat App State by 18. It would seem that which ever team was up on that given Saturday might win. That being said, I expect W&M will be somewhat stronger this year than last. I'm not sure about App. State.

I agree neither would "crush" the other. However GSU won in OT and was #4 playing for Nova when you beat them?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Keep thinking that. The spring game had some new formations. We ran a very limited playbook in year one.

I think most people would have thought you did with it being the first year last year. Anybody that thinks they have that figured out from last year is gonna be in for a long day when it rolls around.

[LegalGaSouthernEagle]

But the flaw of a watered down playoff system is that the regular season becomes less important. A hot team with favorable match ups can do some serious damage. There is nothing beautiful about a 20-team playoff system. It is every bit as fraudulent as the FBS system. As a matter of fact in the FBS at least an underserving team cannot get to a semifinal and parlay that into a number 2 ranking the next year. An 8 team playoff is more than enough.At least try to make sense. Please.
'The flaw of a playoff system is that it makes the reg season less important? No kidding, captain redundant. It's not a flaw. Playoffs, by their very nature as the mechanism for crowing a champion, are specifically desiged to be more important that the regular season.
I'll tell you what is really fraudulent. Not the playoff system, but your disengenuous railing against the coventional wisdom that GSU isn't preseason top 5.
If chatt makes the exact same run that GSU did last year and came into 2011 under the same circumstances in which GSU finds themseles, then you would be making the exact opposite argument that you are now.

[mvemjsunpx]

here is my ballot as it was submitted:

1: Eastern Washington Eagles
2: Appalachian State Mountaineers
3: Georgia Southern Eagles
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: William & Mary Tribe
7: North Dakota State Bison
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Wofford Terriers
11: South Carolina State Bulldogs
12: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
13: James Madison Dukes
14: Liberty Flames
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: Jacksonville State Gamecock
17: UMass Minutemen
18: Furman Paladins
19: Penn Quakers
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Western Illinois Leathernecks
24: Jacksonville Dolphins
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I had four teams that did not make teh top 25 but they all made it in ORV


Wow, I guess I didn't put the Griz higher than everyone else (I also had them fifth).


I'm surprised Sac State didn't even make the ORV. I had them 12th.

[superman7515]

How many votes do you need to have to be in the ORV? I just notice a lot of people saying http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_J-I-q7p7WVE/SXiLeTSe6XI/AAAAAAAAC2Q/cbc8VthI0ZU/S220/iVotedForKodos.gif but that school isn't listed in the ORV.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How many votes do you need to have to be in the ORV? I just notice a lot of people saying http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_J-I-q7p7WVE/SXiLeTSe6XI/AAAAAAAAC2Q/cbc8VthI0ZU/S220/iVotedForKodos.gif but that school isn't listed in the ORV.

I've said it a couple times but maybe not on this thread yet. UMass may be a name recognition problem as I haven't went through that yet. I also didn't go through the other ones that have been discussed other than Jax St. and one other that I ain't remembering right now. I'll check each one and verify it though in a couple of days.

I also didn't put all of the ORV in the list...which I could have but didn't know how deep to go.

Got some new system issues but I will get them worked out soon. If you feel like pm'ing me any specific names it would be appreciated.xnodx

[bjtheflamesfan]

I've said it a couple times but maybe not on this thread yet. UMass may be a name recognition problem as I haven't went through that yet. I also didn't go through the other ones that have been discussed other than Jax St. and one other that I ain't remembering right now. I'll check each one and verify it though in a couple of days.

I also didn't put all of the ORV in the list...which I could have but didn't know how deep to go.

Got some new system issues but I will get them worked out soon. If you feel like pm'ing me any specific names it would be appreciated.xnodx

I think the last couple years it was a minimum of 5 votes to be included in ORV

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think the last couple years it was a minimum of 5 votes to be included in ORV

Good to know, thanks HL. The Poll committee group is a pretty sharp bunch so I'll leave the debating to them and do what they say on it.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh 15?? Ha ok, they are not even the best in the PL this year.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh 15?? Ha ok, they are not even the best in the PL this year.

LOL, disgruntled Pard fan. Way to state your case.

[StorminASU]

Yeah they made it to the semifinals, but in my opinion their regular season body of work didn't even merit a playoff spot. I thought I was doing them a favor by giving them a number 14 ranking. Sure they had a "great" win against ASU. If you can call it that. ASU is a program on the decline and was ripe for the picking last year. That wasn't the ASU from a few years ago. Other than that game GSU's regular season resume was awfully weak. You can say they showed they deserved it by the way they played in the postseason, but whos to say a number of teams who didnt make it couldnt have made a similar run? I expect them to be a little better than last year, and that is why I am ranking them at 14. So bring on the arguments that they were won of the top 4 teams because they made it to the semifinals. I'll counter with their 5 losses.

If we're a program on the decline and we beat you, where does that leave Chatty? Chatty gets to travel to Boone and GSU this year too, so good luck with that ranking...you're gonna need it.

[Apphole]

Good thing for him we aren't on the decline.

[LUHawker]

Lehigh 15?? Ha ok, they are not even the best in the PL this year.

Would seriously like to know which team you think is best in PL for 2011? I am open to hearing other points of view, but I think LU has best case. Eachus makes Colgate a threat, but I am not sure that that puts them above LU. Lehigh has some holes on the O-line to fill, which could create some early season bumps, but a solid returning QB, a very good receiving corp and an improving backfield should give LU some firepower on O. The defense should be very solid again this year. Special teams is a concern.

Also last year, LU entered the season with a new QB, a new OC and a lot of unproven players on offense. Much different scenario this year. #15 sounds about right to me.

[chattownmocs]

If we're a program on the decline and we beat you, where does that leave Chatty? Chatty gets to travel to Boone and GSU this year too, so good luck with that ranking...you're gonna need it.

It means that the paths of the 2 programs are about to intersect.

[Cleets]

Ah... the Pre-Season
full of hopes and dreams

(the back and forth banter is priceless btw)

[BEAR]

Does playing FBS schools influence the rankings or poll voting? If a team plays 2 FBS teams in one year and is good enough to win one..or even luckier to win 2..how does that influence the polls and rankings? xeyebrowx

[Cleets]

Does playing FBS schools influence the rankings or poll voting? If a team plays 2 FBS teams in one year and is good enough to win one..or even luckier to win 2..how does that influence the polls and rankings? xeyebrowx

On a side note:
I once read a post by 89hen (who's been doing this for a long time) say that losses to FBS schools are still losses and even close game FBS loses should never elevate a FCS school...

I know that does not answer your question but I always found that interesting
Perhaps 89hen can elaborate

[89Hen]

On a side note:
I once read a post by 89hen (who's been doing this for a long time) say that losses to FBS schools are still losses and even close game FBS loses should never elevate a FCS school...

I know that does not answer your question but I always found that interesting
Perhaps 89hen can elaborate
Sounds like something I'd say. Beating a I-A certainly should elevate a team, but I can't see a case where a loss, even a close one, should elevate a team. I'd say most of the time, a loss to a I-A will keep the losing team pretty much in their same spot in the poll for me.

If you beat one and lose to one, the net effect is up IMO.

[GlassOnion]

It means that the paths of the 2 programs are about to intersect.

If it is what you say, that intersection isnt located in Boone, NC.

I just find it funny that it only took two 6-5 seasons for you to get a big head. Obviously Chattanooga is well on its way to a NC. xrolleyesx

[RabidRabbit]

Only 6-8% FCS>FBS in any given season. So a win, especially over an BCS conference team provides a strong boost for this poster. Beating a consistent bottom 10 team does not. I'll note that the bottom FBS programs aren't bringing in top FCS teams, instead opting for more likely wins.

NDSU nearly pulled off two FBS wins two seasons in a row. Winning over the west champ of the MAC and a 1 pt loss to a bad MN team, NDSU was well up in my poll those years.

[ngineer]

Sorry I missed this as well due to the weekend and other distractions. I do agree, though, that the only value this provides is for us to talk about something. It's very much a 'Seinfeldian' exercise.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Only 6-8% FCS>FBS in any given season. So a win, especially over an BCS conference team provides a strong boost for this poster. Beating a consistent bottom 10 team does not. I'll note that the bottom FBS programs aren't bringing in top FCS teams, instead opting for more likely wins.

NDSU nearly pulled off two FBS wins two seasons in a row. Winning over the west champ of the MAC and a 1 pt loss to a bad MN team, NDSU was well up in my poll those years.

I gave them somewhat of a bump but I really wasnt going to rocket them up the poll if they got two FBS wins because of teh quality of opponent (regardless of conference) I dont think I gave Liberty a huge bump when they beat Ball State last year even

[JmuSkinsfan]

Not many UD posters here? Really?

As for UD, sure there'll be a downgrade at QB after having to replace Devlin, but it's not like we're going with a complete unknown either. Sasek is going to be the starter and he's already 2-0 as a de facto starter (one easy win over Duquesne, and then a pretty gutsy win over JMU, at JMU, after Devlin got hurt on the first play of the game - heck, Sasek even marched the Hens down the field late in the 4th, with some pretty nice scrambles, to set up the winning FG - and JMU had a pretty highly rated defense last year).

As for AP, remember, UD ran the ball about 60% of the time last year - AP was setting up Devlin a lot. And UD returns 4/5 of the best OL in the CAA last year, and the guy they don't return was generally considered the weakest of the bunch. Sasek doesn't have to be great for the UD offense to be very good.

Defensively is where the Hens could be in trouble as they replace all 4 starters in the backfield. The transfer from Maryland (Hunter) is the real deal, so that's one spot that seems to be fine, but the other 3 spots are all question marks until we see what the season brings. But there is plenty of guys returning from the front 7 so it shouldn't be too bad.

UD should be an easy playoff team this year. Maybe not national title contending, but should be a playoff team nonetheless.

Right, but you still managed to score just 13 points. That late-game drive was about all UD managed in that game ... JMUs inept offense lost that game way more than UDs offense won it.

[Humble Steward]

If they do what you say then sure they will rise in the poll, however its more likely to be top 10 and not top 3! No matter their record, they will never be a top 3 team, if you put them in the SoCon or CAA they would not even be a top 3 in that conference...losing to difficult opponents is more worthy then beating cupcakes in your own conference.

Give B-CU some time, we are getting there. We finally understand what it takes to build a solid program. You guys beat us fair and square last season, but we were hampered some without an effective QB. We have a quality coaching staff and are recruiting some sound players to fit in our system. You will know in the first 4 games whether or not B-CU will be a contender or pretender this season. Luckily we have several home games against our MEAC foes (South Carolina St., Hampton, Morgan St., etc.) and eight games in Florida. Our biggest hole to fill will be at QB (Matt Johnson). If we are successful in our offense this season, this should be another good one. Just reaching the playoffs is not the goal, but finally winning is the key. Good Luck guys, I don't know about you but I'm ready for the season to begin.

[SpeedkingATL]

I would enjoy the opportunity to test your hypothesis with regard to W&M and App. State. I believe that it would be a great game and that neither team would "crush" the other. Common opponents last year were GSU, which beat W&M by 15 and App. State by 7 and Villanova which W&M beat by 7 and Villanova beat App State by 18. It would seem that which ever team was up on that given Saturday might win. That being said, I expect W&M will be somewhat stronger this year than last. I'm not sure about App. State.

Would love to see William & Mary come to The Rock. I would expect a tough, tight game like most of the CAA games we've played over the last 6 years. Would love to have a chance to get a little of the Nova game out of my memory with a better showing against W&M. (Nova was maybe the worst App performance at The Rock since the playoff loss to Maine years ago) App will be pretty good this year; we just don't know how good yet. The SoCon will be the best it's been in years and maybe as deep as its ever been this year.

[89Hen]

Right, but you still managed to score just 13 points. That late-game drive was about all UD managed in that game ... JMUs inept offense lost that game way more than UDs offense won it.

FWIW, JMU only gave up 20+ points in three games last year and it was Sasek's first action against a CAA defense (he started against Duquesne, but only attempted 9 passes all game). Will he be as good as Devlin out of the box? Probably not. By mid season? Could be. Devlin was no Flacco.

[GannonFan]

Right, but you still managed to score just 13 points. That late-game drive was about all UD managed in that game ... JMUs inept offense lost that game way more than UDs offense won it.

Actually, it was two 4th quarter scoring drives that Sasek engineered to win that game. And the last one UD got with just under 7 minutes to go in the game and gave the ball back, with the lead, to JMU with 3 seconds on the clock. Not bad for a kid who didn't practice with the 1st team all week and only got into the game when the starter took a shot on the 1st or second play from scrimmage.

[JmuSkinsfan]

Actually, it was two 4th quarter scoring drives that Sasek engineered to win that game. And the last one UD got with just under 7 minutes to go in the game and gave the ball back, with the lead, to JMU with 3 seconds on the clock. Not bad for a kid who didn't practice with the 1st team all week and only got into the game when the starter took a shot on the 1st or second play from scrimmage.

I'm not saying the kid was inept! Just saying he wasn't necessarily a star in the making. Granted, JMU had an amazing defense last year (what a waste) and it should be just as good if not better this year ... but I would have been a lot more impressed if he had come in and put up more points. I remember he scrambled a lot on broke plays which was very frustrating to watch as a JMU fan ... but you have to consider that JMU had also prepared all week for Devlin. I don't remember if Devlin was mobile or not but he was mainly a pocket passer ... and I don't think JMU changed their gameplan much after he left the game and a lot of those scrambles were on broken plays where most of the JMU secondary had dropped back leaving holes in the defense to scramble 10+ yards (If i remember correctly).

[bojeta]

Sounds like something I'd say. Beating a I-A certainly should elevate a team, but I can't see a case where a loss, even a close one, should elevate a team. I'd say most of the time, a loss to a I-A will keep the losing team pretty much in their same spot in the poll for me.

If you beat one and lose to one, the net effect is up IMO.

After Cal Poly ran all over bowl bound Wisconsin in `08 only to lose in double overtime due to FIVE missed kicks!!!!! They remained ranked #3 Only example I can site from memory.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Sounds like something I'd say. Beating a I-A certainly should elevate a team, but I can't see a case where a loss, even a close one, should elevate a team. I'd say most of the time, a loss to a I-A will keep the losing team pretty much in their same spot in the poll for me.

If you beat one and lose to one, the net effect is up IMO.

I can't agree with that at all. For example, if an FCS team loses by 1 to a ranked FBS, I would definitely move them up, because 99.99 times out of 100, a ranked FBS is going to be much better than any FCS.

[89Hen]

After Cal Poly ran all over bowl bound Wisconsin in `08 only to lose in double overtime due to FIVE missed kicks!!!!! They remained ranked #3 Only example I can site from memory.

But didn't move up to #2.

[89Hen]

I can't agree with that at all. For example, if an FCS team loses by 1 to a ranked FBS, I would definitely move them up, because 99.99 times out of 100, a ranked FBS is going to be much better than any FCS.

To each his own. This is just my opinion on the matter. I've never moved a team up with a loss (that is to say leapfrogged a team that won).

[GaSouthern]

With GSU barely making the playoffs last year I think being in the 10-15 range sounds better.

[RichH2]

Perhaps "uber" seinfeldian a more apt title for this thread .But it is a great way to pass the time til August

[professor8315]

Bethune-Cookman will play a FBS team (won't count against them when they lose) and SC State. That's it. Look for them to climb up the poll each week when the higher-ranked teams lose to considerably more difficult opponents. Same for Liberty. CAA, SoCon and BSC teams have to play at least 5 exceptional teams every season. What's the chance of GSU, ASU, W&M, UD, UR, JMU, UNH, EWU, Mont, Mont St, Nova, NDSU, or UND sweeping their conference opponents? B-C could very well lose just one game (U of Miami) and sneak into the top 3 by season's end. I'm not holding this against B-C; they have to play their conference foes. I just hope Hampton shows up this season.

B-C is not as strong of a team as you think that they are. B-C first four games in 2011 is nothing like thier fisrt four of 2010. It's very possible that they will be 0-4 heading in the first week of October.

[seantaylor]

This barely making the playoffs thing is straight garbage. Guess what, Green Bay BARELY made the playoffs. Anyone want to say they weren't the best team in the NFL and aren't going to be big favorites to win it all again?

[LeadBolt]

This barely making the playoffs thing is straight garbage. Guess what, Green Bay BARELY made the playoffs. Anyone want to say they weren't the best team in the NFL and aren't going to be big favorites to win it all again?

So you're saying you think EWU is the big favorite to win it all again

[bojeta]

But didn't move up to #2.

No, stayed at #3 as I recall. I'd have to go back to be 100% certain there wasn't movement upwards. I know they never got past #3

[gasoutherneagle]

Because it's about the Top 25 teams in the country.

REALLY!?! That wasn't the case for Auburn when they went 11-0 on probation. If you CHOSE not to participate, TOUGH CRAP, you're out, moving on!

[Humble Steward]

B-C is not as strong of a team as you think that they are. B-C first four games in 2011 is nothing like thier fisrt four of 2010. It's very possible that they will be 0-4 heading in the first week of October.

LOL, we are all entitled to our opionion. Look for the defense to be more sound this year. Sorry, I mean the offense. Wait no it will definitely be special teams. Why bother, we are already 0-4 and the season hasn't started.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

To each his own. This is just my opinion on the matter. I've never moved a team up with a loss (that is to say leapfrogged a team that won).

But I bet you have moved up a team after beating a D-II, probably a CAA team, even if no other team above them lost. xcoffeex

Me, I would move up a team if they barely lost to a ranked or a close to being ranked FBS/BCS team, even if a team just above them beat a D-II, unless the D-II was absolutely thrashed by like 40+ points.

Quality of opponent and the score matter a big deal to me when deciding rankings, not just wins and losses. Road vs. Away factor in as well.

[Gil Dobie]

But I bet you have moved up a team after beating a D-II, probably a CAA team, even if no other team above them lost. xcoffeex

Me, I would move up a team if they barely lost to a ranked or a close to being ranked FBS/BCS team, even if a team just above them beat a D-II, unless the D-II was absolutely thrashed by like 40+ points.

Quality of opponent and the score matter a big deal to me when deciding rankings, not just wins and losses. Road vs. Away factor in as well.

I'm with 89Hen, I don't reward a team for losing. I also don't leapfrog very often unless it's a win over #1 or a good FBS team.

[UNH72Plus]

There has to be some accounting for strength of schedule. B-C's record last year (10-2) included only one quality win, SCS. The combined records of the nine teams they beat was 25-63 (not counting Edward Waters, a club football team). In their two losses to FAMU and UNH they were out scored 47-83!

[Humble Steward]

There has to be some accounting for strength of schedule. B-C's record last year (10-2) included only one quality win, SCS. The combined records of the nine teams they beat was 25-63 (not counting Edward Waters, a club football team). In their two losses to FAMU and UNH they were out scored 47-83!

Unfortunately in the two losses we did not have our starting QB, who was critical in our success last season. In fact against FAMU, we had two injured QB's(Loss 38 - 27). If you are going to put out stats, be fair and tell the whole story. I agree that our strength of schedule was average at best last year, but I think it's a little better this year.

[89Hen]

But I bet you have moved up a team after beating a D-II, probably a CAA team, even if no other team above them lost. xcoffeex

And you'd lose that bet.

[bjtheflamesfan]

For me I generally do move teams up if they have beaten a sub D-I team but only if teams above them lost. I had a system I used for my first year or so voting that I will probably have to bring back for this season. I move a team up only proportionate to the number of teams above them that lost (so if say South Carolina State was 14 last week, won this week and 3 teams above them in the rankings lost, they would move up to no higher than 11 in my new ballot). If they lost to a ranked FCS team, if the team was ranked below them they would move down proportionate to half the difference between their rankings coming into the game. Let's say (for argument's sake) Appalachian State (who was #2 in my preseason poll) lost to Furman (who we will say is #19 because I forgot to slot New Hampshire into my poll). the difference in their rankings is 17 so Id drop them 9 spots in my next ballot (half of 17 is 8.5 so I round up). If the team is ranked above them, I move them down either 3-5 spots or proportionate to 25 percent of the final margin (whichever is less). To use another example, let's say Bethune-Cookman lost to SCSU...42-7. they would move down 3-5 spots because 25 percent of the final margin (35 points) is greater. If they lost to an unranked team Id drop them either 10 spots or twice the margin of victory for the unranked team whichever is greater as long as it does not drop them completely out of the top 25.

[GaSouthern]

If SC State played in the SoCon last year they would have finished in the bottom 3.

[TwoFeathers]

Nova gets a first place vote? Who's screening these rankings? Their losses remind me of Richmond last year. It will be very difficult for them to make the playoffs.

Somebody must have bumped their head and thought it was 2010...

[TwoFeathers]

Seriously. How does GSU end up at 14 after making it the semi-finals in year 1 of a new offense with a new coach? We are returning all but one starters. We are w/o a doubt in the top 4.

And App. St. below William and Mary and Montana St.? App would CRUSH both of those teams. App should be around 5 or 6.

"Crush"??? Did you see the playoffs last year, with a better App State team???

[TwoFeathers]

Please, put down the crack pipe for your own good.

There's been alot of one-hit-wonders. GSU came out of nowhere last year, and could be an injury or two away from nowhere again (Brent Russell, Jaybo). Same as any other team. Just saying...

[TwoFeathers]

Yeah they made it to the semifinals, but in my opinion their regular season body of work didn't even merit a playoff spot. I thought I was doing them a favor by giving them a number 14 ranking. Sure they had a "great" win against ASU. If you can call it that. ASU is a program on the decline and was ripe for the picking last year. That wasn't the ASU from a few years ago. Other than that game GSU's regular season resume was awfully weak. You can say they showed they deserved it by the way they played in the postseason, but whos to say a number of teams who didnt make it couldnt have made a similar run? I expect them to be a little better than last year, and that is why I am ranking them at 14. So bring on the arguments that they were won of the top 4 teams because they made it to the semifinals. I'll counter with their 5 losses.

You are right, they barely made the playoffs, but they did beat 3 good teams on the road to get to the semi's. They peaked at the right time. Just need to capitalize on that momentum, and not revert to the early season debacle from last year.

[Twentysix]

Unfortunately in the two losses we did not have our starting QB, who was critical in our success last season. In fact against FAMU, we had two injured QB's(Loss 38 - 27). If you are going to put out stats, be fair and tell the whole story. I agree that our strength of schedule was average at best last year, but I think it's a little better this year.


Originally Posted by UNH72Plus
There has to be some accounting for strength of schedule. B-C's record last year (10-2) included only one quality win, SCS. The combined records of the nine teams they beat was 25-63 (not counting Edward Waters, a club football team). In their two losses to FAMU and UNH they were out scored 47-83!


How can "club team(NAIA?)" and average strength of schedule be in the same conversation?

[TwoFeathers]

here is my ballot as it was submitted:

1: Eastern Washington Eagles
2: Appalachian State Mountaineers
3: Georgia Southern Eagles
4: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
5: Montana Grizzlies
6: William & Mary Tribe
7: North Dakota State Bison
8: Montana State Bobcats
9: Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
10: Wofford Terriers
11: South Carolina State Bulldogs
12: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
13: James Madison Dukes
14: Liberty Flames
15: Northern Iowa Panthers
16: Jacksonville State Gamecock
17: UMass Minutemen
18: Furman Paladins
19: Penn Quakers
20: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
21: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
22: Cal Poly Mustangs
23: Western Illinois Leathernecks
24: Jacksonville Dolphins
25: Chattanooga Mocs

I had four teams that did not make teh top 25 but they all made it in ORV

UD over W&M... not this year.

[TwoFeathers]

Simple oversight that New Hampshire does not appear?

Agreed...

[TwoFeathers]

But the flaw of a watered down playoff system is that the regular season becomes less important. A hot team with favorable match ups can do some serious damage. There is nothing beautiful about a 20-team playoff system. It is every bit as fraudulent as the FBS system. As a matter of fact in the FBS at least an underserving team cannot get to a semifinal and parlay that into a number 2 ranking the next year. An 8 team playoff is more than enough.

Hate to say it, but I may agree with Chattownmocs. GSU squeaked into the playoffs, then had a Cinderella run. That will be hard to replicate again. But I have eaten my own shoes before ;)

[UNH Fanboi]

I thought 16 was ideal. 8 teams is most definitely not enough. With over 120 teams and very little inter-conference play during the regular season, how do you fairly and objectively pick 8 teams? You can't.

My biggest gripe with the 20-team playoff is that it makes the playoffs asymmetrical and makes the subjective seeding process even more important. But adding two extra at-larges does not detract from the meaningfulness of the post-season at all. It makes a 7-4 team from the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky or MVFC slightly more of lock, but teams still cannot coast through the regular season. Even with 20 teams this year, we had some pretty good teams left on the sidelines.

[LakesBison]

not 1 vote for Sam Houston State last year? and William and Mary at #3 ?

oh boy, what a mess.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

not 1 vote for Sam Houston State last year? and William and Mary at #3 ?

oh boy, what a mess.

There were votes for SHSU they just fell outside of the top 40 and didn't get listed. I guess you are expecting predictions to be exact science? Good to know cuz I'll pull your ballot and compare it to the final standings and will expect that it matches very, very close to what finally happens.

[BisonFan02]

There were votes for SHSU they just fell outside of the top 40 and didn't get listed. I guess you are expecting predictions to be exact science? Good to know cuz I'll pull your ballot and compare it to the final standings and will expect that it matches very, very close to what finally happens.

This should be good.....

[BisonHype!]

Looks like SHSU is ranked correctly though. Not ranked and shouldn't be. Just my opinion. McNeese will yet again be the gold standard of the league.

LAWLZ. Someone looks foolish in this post. Sorry, I just thought this was funny.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This should be good.....

Indeed.xlolx

[darell1976]

One voter contacted me that he had accidentally chosen UND when he meant the position to go to NDSU so it changed slightly.


I have a feeling we may see more of this for the upcoming season. Get ready for another half dozen threads on this subject.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I have a feeling we may see more of this for the upcoming season. Get ready for another half dozen threads on this subject.

The process on that is all refined. If a voter chooses UND then it lights up and we go through to see if they have already voted for NDSU and if they haven't they are emailed on it, pm'd, etc.

Same thing happens for Del. St., Jackson's, Southdaks, and so on.

That is one reason people better be able to check their email, or pm's on Sunday nights so they don't get ejected for not replying to the correction request.

[darell1976]

The process on that is all refined. If a voter chooses UND then it lights up and we go through to see if they have already voted for NDSU and if they haven't they are emailed on it, pm'd, etc.

Same thing happens for Del. St., Jackson's, Southdaks, and so on.

That is one reason people better be able to check their email, or pm's on Sunday nights so they don't get ejected for not replying to the correction request.

Now that UND is getting better and was ranked last year they should get more and more votes as the team does well...if NDSU stumbles you could have a #15 NDSU and #16 UND in the polls. That should make for interesting talk.

[BEAR]

There were votes for SHSU they just fell outside of the top 40 and didn't get listed. I guess you are expecting predictions to be exact science? Good to know cuz I'll pull your ballot and compare it to the final standings and will expect that it matches very, very close to what finally happens.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s320x320/314262_10150863606559261_1951184248_n.jpg

[DFW HOYA]

I have a feeling we may see more of this for the upcoming season. Get ready for another half dozen threads on this subject.

Perhaps they could be consolidated within this thread.

[BEAR]

As far as the Southland teams, I think SFA and UCA were a bit on the overrated side. UCA may be in the top three of the league, but I have them at No. 4 behind some combination of McNeese, N'western St and SHSU...

Looks like this prediction was as close as mine. xlolx

I was sure McNeese was going to do damage in the SLC but they couldn't get their talented crap together. This year I think will be different. SHSU, then the Cowboys, then it's a tossup.

[LakesBison]

Smartest post Urses has ever had! thank you!


The process on that is all refined. If a voter chooses UND then it lights up and we go through to see if they have already voted for NDSU and if they haven't they are emailed on it, pm'd, etc.

Same thing happens for Del. St., Jackson's, Southdaks, and so on.

That is one reason people better be able to check their email, or pm's on Sunday nights so they don't get ejected for not replying to the correction request.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Smartest post Urses has ever had! thank you!

That post was made yesterday but the process was put in place about week 2 or 3 last year so it has been around for a long time already and was the reason I often told those making claims that UND was getting NDSU's votes were wrong. I guarantede you there are dozens of posters that can attest to the fact that they chose incorrectly and we got in touch with them and they verified or asked for a change which was done.

Just wanted to fill in the back story so you were not running under the illusion that any of the claims you were making last year on the matter had any substance to them.

[darell1976]

That post was made yesterday but the process was put in place about week 2 or 3 last year so it has been around for a long time already and was the reason I often told those making claims that UND was getting NDSU's votes were wrong. I guarantede you there are dozens of posters that can attest to the fact that they chose incorrectly and we got in touch with them and they verified or asked for a change which was done.

Just wanted to fill in the back story so you were not running under the illusion that any of the claims you were making last year on the matter had any substance to them.

So UND being ranked around mid to late season was legit and not stealing votes from NDSU.

[LakesBison]

yea, there are always delusional posters that put their own team in the top 25 when they shouldnt even sniff the top 25. i agree urses.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

yea, there are always delusional posters that put their own team in the top 25 when they shouldnt even sniff the top 25. i agree urses.

I'm sure it happens sometimes, I'm sure it happened with NDSU on occasions when they weren't deserving a few years back. The UND votes do not come from just the UND voters so enough with that. It is not the case. It's a faulty premise you are working with so drop it.