Big East Expansion

[Starship]

Why not add WM and Delaware to the Big East or ACC Expansion scenarios

[WestCoastAggie]

Hey Starship!

Welcome to the Board.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not add WM and Delaware to the Big East or ACC Expansion scenarios

William & Mary does not have the football stadium to go Big East, so that's a non-starter. Delaware has the pigskin, but not the basketball program - and even then it would take a while for Delaware to get up to snuff.

[JSU02]

Why doesn't the BigEast just go ahead and split? It really drives me crazy that they can't see it would be in the best interest of both factions in the long run to just part ways nows ARGH!

[nwFL Griz]

Why doesn't the BigEast just go ahead and split? It really drives me crazy that they can't see it would be in the best interest of both factions in the long run to just part ways nows ARGH!

Couldn't agree more. They are gonna end up killing themselves, until they deal with this.

[Tim James]

To me Army and Navy are natural fits but I never figured out if the Big East has no interest in them or if they have no interest in joining.

[WestCoastAggie]

I thought Army & Navy liked being independents?

[Cocky]

Why not add Eastern Kentucky, Eastern Washington, East Carolina, Eastern Illinois, East Tennessee, and Eastern Michigan?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

According to an ESPN.com article Temple remains in the mix. We're not a primary target but we're legitimately in the conversion with about 5 or 6 schools.

[DFW HOYA]

Why doesn't the BigEast just go ahead and split? It really drives me crazy that they can't see it would be in the best interest of both factions in the long run to just part ways nows ARGH!

No interest. Better to stay with Syr and UConn than join the NIT League with St. John's and DePaul.

[ericsaid]

ECU and UCF are the best fits for football. No one is up to par in the country to jump right into the Big East in basketball.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

IMO there needs to be another Midwestern BBall only conference to help break up the BE. If 'Nova does not accept ECU and Temple are the best options imo. Buffalo should get some consideration too. A flagship SUNY school SHOULD be in a BCS league.

I'd go with Marquette, Butler, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton and DePaul. This would be a great hoops league.

BE Hoops- UCONN, Georgetown, Syracuse, Providence, Villanova, St. John's, Rutgers, Pitt, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, West Virginia, South Florida, ECU and Temple

BE Football- WVU, UCONN, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, USF, Temple, ECU, Cincy and Louisville

[Dane96]

ECU and UCF are the best fits for football. No one is up to par in the country to jump right into the Big East in basketball.

Memphis, TCU and UCF all fit that bill.

Memphis hoops is...well Memphis. TCU is always solid and would be no worse than around 12 in the league. UCF has one of the brightest young mid-major squad futures out there. They started a crapload of youngins over the last two seasons who are ready to breakout. They wouldn't be too bad in a couple of years....and their facility is awesome.

[Dane96]

IMO there needs to be another Midwestern BBall only conference to help break up the BE. If 'Nova does not accept ECU and Temple are the best options imo. Buffalo should get some consideration too. A flagship SUNY school SHOULD be in a BCS league.

I'd go with Marquette, Butler, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, St. Louis, Xavier, Dayton and DePaul. This would be a great hoops league.

BE Hoops- UCONN, Georgetown, Syracuse, Providence, Villanova, St. John's, Rutgers, Pitt, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, West Virginia, South Florida, ECU and Temple

BE Football- WVU, UCONN, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, USF, Temple, ECU, Cincy and Louisville

A flagship SUNY? What are you smoking. None of the SUNY's are BEAST material...in any way, shape or form.

[Bogus Megapardus]

To me Army and Navy are natural fits but I never figured out if the Big East has no interest in them or if they have no interest in joining.

Pretty easy - the Academies prefer an independent football schedule where they can travel the country to play in a variety of places where servicemen are stationed and where military recruits are likely to be found in numbers. A consideration that no other college has is that the schedule has to serve the interests of the Department of Defense.

For other sports the Academies are full members of the Patriot League. This provides appropriate competition for Cadets and Midshipmen whose daily routine is very rigorous, and it limits travel. Patriot schools generally field many more sports than required by the NCAA, consistent with the breadth of offerings at the academies. Other than in lacrosse and wrestling, the Academies would not be competitive with fully-funded Big East schools in other sports.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

A flagship SUNY? What are you smoking. None of the SUNY's are BEAST material...in any way, shape or form.

Buffalo is darn good school with a large enrollment. They're also located in a fairly large metro area. They have reasonable footballs facilities and their bball arena is a lot like the RAC at Rutgers. The problem is they haven't been very good in anything. Neither has UCF. Success aside i believe UB works.

[superman7515]

Delaware is adding a 54,000 square foot basketball practice facility which is actually larger than the ones just built for a lot of BCS schools, 20% larger than the one built by Texas in 2008, twice the size being built for Iowa State (http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10700&KEY=&ATCLID=3761589), and the same size as the one at LSU (http://www.lsureveille.com/sports/basketball-practice-facility-has-grand-opening-1.2341353).

http://www.facilities.udel.edu/Default.aspx?pageid=154

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Delaware is adding a 54,000 square foot basketball practice facility which is actually larger than the ones just built for a lot of BCS schools, 20% larger than the one built by Texas in 2008, twice the size being built for Iowa State (http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10700&KEY=&ATCLID=3761589), and the same size as the one at LSU (http://www.lsureveille.com/sports/basketball-practice-facility-has-grand-opening-1.2341353).

http://www.facilities.udel.edu/Default.aspx?pageid=154


Problem is the games aren't played in a practice facility. Delaware would have to expand their Arena by at least 3k to be taken seriously.

[superman7515]

BTW: In no way saying Delaware should go or be in the conversation, just holding out hope that this will help basketball become relevant here.

[Sec310]

The reason why the BE doesn't split, is simple. Nobody wants to start a conference without an AQ for HOOPS. Of course, the basketball schools would want to keep the AQ. So, there would never be a Big East that plays all sports, including football.

I like the idea of an all Mid West hoops conference. It would be like the Metro Conference of the 80's & 90's.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not add Eastern Kentucky, Eastern Washington, East Carolina, Eastern Illinois, East Tennessee, and Eastern Michigan?

xlolx

[Dane96]

Buffalo is darn good school with a large enrollment. They're also located in a fairly large metro area. They have reasonable footballs facilities and their bball arena is a lot like the RAC at Rutgers. The problem is they haven't been very good in anything. Neither has UCF. Success aside i believe UB works.

As a former scholarship athlete at Buffalo (I transfered to Albany)...I know quite a bit about them. They have ZERO fan support...and the city is one of the quickest dying cities in America. It is one of the major reasons people believe the Bills will relocate on the owner's death. The football facilities are being DOWNGRADED (they are taking out an entire end) to get them well below 30k.

UCF has a ridiculous baseball team...a very very good basketball team...a major media market...awesome facilities...a decent football program...etc...etc. Oh, and its easy to fly to and in one of America's fastest growing metropolis'

[Dane96]

The reason why the BE doesn't split, is simple. Nobody wants to start a conference without an AQ for HOOPS. Of course, the basketball schools would want to keep the AQ. So, there would never be a Big East that plays all sports, including football.

I like the idea of an all Mid West hoops conference. It would be like the Metro Conference of the 80's & 90's.

DING DING...we have a winner. I think that is the "backdoor" stuff that is happening. There must be some talk with the NCAA about this.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

William & Mary does not have the football stadium to go Big East, so that's a non-starter. Delaware has the pigskin, but not the basketball program - and even then it would take a while for Delaware to get up to snuff.

Delaware's basketball program certainly needs work, but thankfully basketball programs tend to respond well, and quickly, to the infusion of gobs of money. Hiring a decent men's bball coach, imrpoving the Bob, and improving the training facilities would do wonders for UD's basketball situation. Delaware has plenty of cash to do it right, the administration and athletic department just need to get together and decide to do it.

[Go...gate]

As a former scholarship athlete at Buffalo (I transfered to Albany)...I know quite a bit about them. They have ZERO fan support...and the city is one of the quickest dying cities in America. It is one of the major reasons people believe the Bills will relocate on the owner's death. The football facilities are being DOWNGRADED (they are taking out an entire end) to get them well below 30k.

UCF has a ridiculous baseball team...a very very good basketball team...a major media market...awesome facilities...a decent football program...etc...etc. Oh, and its easy to fly to and in one of America's fastest growing metropolis'

That stadium was only built in 1991. Are they taking out the seats on the scoreboard side?

[Dane96]

That stadium was only built in 1991. Are they taking out the seats on the scoreboard side?

North Side...yes...the side of the scoreboard. I was one of the first recruits after they revamped Alumni Arena...and finished the original "new" UB Stadium, which only at 16k at the time. I was there for a month in 1992...before I left to go to Albany.

They will lose about 5,000 or so seats...going down to 24,000 seats. NOT A CHANCE AT BIG EAST QUALITY.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Why not add Eastern Kentucky, Eastern Washington, East Carolina, Eastern Illinois, East Tennessee, and Eastern Michigan?

If you add six easts, does it make an even Bigger East?

[JSU02]

The reason why the BE doesn't split, is simple. Nobody wants to start a conference without an AQ for HOOPS. Of course, the basketball schools would want to keep the AQ. So, there would never be a Big East that plays all sports, including football.

I like the idea of an all Mid West hoops conference. It would be like the Metro Conference of the 80's & 90's.

Thats a moot point. If the footballs schools broke away they would still get at least 4 at large bids anyway. Its not a legitimate issue.

[Wmbgskip]

It's not just hoops - it's all of the other sports like lacrosse, baseball, field hockey, soccers - when you have an autobid being given out every year, even teams with terrible records can still say "all we need is to get lucky for a weekend, and we're NCAA-bound." When that safety net gets taken away, coaches get very very nervous, and when coaches are nervous, ADs and presidents are nervous.

--Skip

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

North Side...yes...the side of the scoreboard. I was one of the first recruits after they revamped Alumni Arena...and finished the original "new" UB Stadium, which only at 16k at the time. I was there for a month in 1992...before I left to go to Albany.

They will lose about 5,000 or so seats...going down to 24,000 seats. NOT A CHANCE AT BIG EAST QUALITY.

There's really no beed for any MAC school to have 30k seats. Temple is currently leading the MAC attendance with a whopping 23k average. MAC schools don't travel at all and it's hard to generate local interest when Akron and WMU are coming to town. I don't doubt for a second that if UB were playing Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UCONN etc, their attendance worries would take care of itself.

Also, how does UCF have a "very, very good" bball program? They've made the tourney 4 times in their history and have 10 winning seasons and 10 losing ones. Very, very good? Really?

[Dane96]

There's really no beed for any MAC school to have 30k seats. Temple is currently leading the MAC attendance with a whopping 23k average. MAC schools don't travel at all and it's hard to generate local interest when Akron and WMU are coming to town. I don't doubt for a second that if UB were playing Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UCONN etc, their attendance worries would take care of itself.

Also, how does UCF have a "very, very good" bball program? They've made the tourney 4 times in their history and have 10 winning seasons and 10 losing ones. Very, very good? Really?

Ummmmm...UCF has a new building, new coaching staff...fresh new players that came on strong last season...and are on their way to success in a non-too shabby league. They have more going for it than many of the programs (aside from Temple) mentioned.

http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/facilities/ucf-facilities.html

The facilities, are Big East.

[Dane96]

Apparently, the Big East agrees with me....

...another poster just noted that ESPN has just reported that the BE has stated the top choice is 'Nova...and if not, then they will go to TCU and UCF as two teams added.

[NovaWildcat]

Here we go again.

1. The Big East doesn't want Temple. Been there, done that.

2. Start the Villanova doesn't get support blah blah blah...the ball is in our court and that is that.

3. Delaware? William & Mary? A good football team doesn't = BCS potential.

4. The basketball schools want to stay attached to the football schools. Obvious reasons (money, TV deals, exposure). Anyone that didn't would just drop out. They wont be the catalyst in any move. The football schools DO have incentive to keep some of the basketball schools if the can find football-only schools + Villanova. The bball schools are in major markets (NY/MSG, Chicago, Philly, DC). You don't just kill your exposure like that. There's a reason that TCU is getting invited - MARKET!

5. The Big East football schools are also not getting invites (at least in the near future) to the bigger conferences, like some thought. Thus, additional incentive to bring on Nova, TCU, ect...

[TheValleyRaider]

I have to believe this is directed at Villanova first and foremost, but expanding to 10, I would guess TCU is the headliner. This, of course, is from a TCU perspective, but the TCU offers a portion of the DFW/Texas market for both TV and Football recruiting, and a Top 10 Football program. I know it's the Big East, and basketball is more important here than other BCS conferences, but Football is still driving this bus xtwocentsx

[msusig]

Why wouldn't the Big East go after another CAA school besides Villanova. It seems that the CAA has plenty of schools to pick from that are just as attractive that have the enrollment to move up to the FBS. Why not UMASS, New Hampshire, or Georgia State? Houston and TCU make no sense because of travel distance. The Big East will become the new WAC if they try to pick up those schools. Even UCF isn't all that impressive. ECU and Memphis make the most sense.

The Big East needs to get to 12 teams and here is an option:
1. East Carolina
2. Memphis
3. A CAA School
4. UCF

Even then I don't know if that will help the case of the Big East being a top tier BCS conference.

[Dane96]

Why wouldn't the Big East go after another CAA school besides Villanova. It seems that the CAA has plenty of schools to pick from that are just as attractive that have the enrollment to move up to the FBS. Why not UMASS, New Hampshire, or Georgia State? Houston and TCU make no sense because of travel distance. The Big East will become the new WAC if they try to pick up those schools. Even UCF isn't all that impressive. ECU and Memphis make the most sense.

The Big East needs to get to 12 teams and here is an option:
1. East Carolina
2. Memphis
3. A CAA School
4. UCF

Even then I don't know if that will help the case of the Big East being a top tier BCS conference.

UNH and UMASS don't have the money...Georgia State is a non-starter; they are not going to try to gain the Atlanta market that is cornered by GTech and UGA.

[TokyoGriz]

Nova is movin up for sure IMO. They would be out of their minds not to if the chance comes.

Hopefully it works better than last time however.

[houtexan]

Article in the Houston Chronicle - could a University of Houston / TCU add be in play?: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/7276103.html

"
Texas two-step

A TCU-UH parlay would expand the Big East TV footprint, offer recruiting inroads to two of the most talent-rich cities in the country and provide convenient travel partners. What regard do former C-USA members Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida have for UH? When those schools were in C-USA, UH had barely gotten its athletic program off life support.
UCF has the nation's third-largest enrollment and would fortify the Big East's presence in talent-rich Florida. UCF also has a head start in facilities, what with UH trying to raise $160 million to build a new football stadium and to refurbish Hofheinz Pavilion. But how would courting UCF play 100 miles up the road in Tampa, where the Bulls of USF have been trying to carve out an identity?"

[NovaWildcat]

As confirmed by ESPN, among others - the Big East RIGHT NOW is looking to expand to 10 teams.

They want Villanova and TCU.

As some of you seem to forget or not know, all existing members must approve a new team. Nova is a no brainer because it's already in conference and takes no "expansion." TCU fits the mold because it fits the SCHOOL PROFILE of half of the existing Big East schools (the small, catholic schools) and it's in a major television market (Dallas/FtW) like many other schools.

If the BE were to expand to 12, the next schools to fall in line would be UCF and Houston. Natural traveling partners for USF/TCU.

[NovaWildcat]

Nova is movin up for sure IMO. They would be out of their minds not to if the chance comes.

Hopefully it works better than last time however.

Out of their minds is an understatement. This is an absolute no brainer. If we don't join we're basically creating our own expulsion from MAJOR college sports. And all of the benefits (academic) that come along with it (increased admissions, more alumni giving, bigger national name..).

Unfortunately, this is far from a sure-thing. A lot of current people at Villanova don't want to overhaul the school to make this move...and unfortunately our President (Fr. Peter Donahue) is probably one of those people.

[Cocky]

Why do you not take Memphis and the Fed Ex money? I would bet Fred would even agree to an advertising deal to go along with the offered money.

[henfan]

Out of their minds is an understatement. This is an absolute no brainer. If we don't join we're basically creating our own expulsion from MAJOR college sports. And all of the benefits (academic) that come along with it (increased admissions, more alumni giving, bigger national name..).

Hyperbole bullshxt alert. There is absolutely no evidence that would suggest that VU is under any threat to be expelled from the Big East if they decide for whatever reason not to reclassify their FB program, just as Georgetown, Marquette and the other Big East schools without FBS programs are not going to be expelled.

As for the increased financial benefits, again, sorry, bullshxt alert. On which studies do you base your comments? There's little if any empirical proof demonstrating that big time athletics increases admissions and more alumni giving, unless you're speaking exclusively of money being directed to ADs. Sports finances feed sports programs exclusively; sports programs do not feed general funds.
http://www.knightfoundation.org/news/press_room/knight_press_releases/detail.dot?id=135945
http://www.themonkeycage.org/2008/05/the_dismal_economics_of_bigtim.html

Obviously, I do agree that a successful big time FB program may provide some national marketing advantage. But how much value though does a competitively unsuccessful FB program add?

[Sycamore51]

Depaul and Maquette need to leave the Big East and join the MVC. They can compete better, they are mid-west basketball schools, and it is a mid-west basketball conference. Fill those two spots with UCF, Temple, and Nova (football) and eveything makes sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Memphis needs to be Big East. It just makes too much sense with Louisville already in the conference and their need for FB.

UCF too, to give Big East FB teams a trip to Florida every year and to create a USF/UCF rivalry.

[Sycamore51]

Memphis needs to be Big East. It just makes too much sense with Louisville already in the conference and their need for FB.

UCF too, to give Big East FB teams a trip to Florida every year and to create a USF/UCF rivalry.

I wouldn't mind Memphis, just because I hate them almost as much as UK, Ball State, and Butler, but it is a terrible institution. Other than basketball, and that is dropping back down, they have terrible sports. The Liberty Bowl is a terrible venue, but FedEx is nice. I'd much rather have Temple over Memphis. UCF is a must though if you add.

[TheValleyRaider]

TCU fits the mold because it fits the SCHOOL PROFILE of half of the existing Big East schools (the small, catholic schools) and it's in a major television market (Dallas/FtW) like many other schools.

A bit of clarification here. TCU is not religiously affiliated (Catholic or otherwise), so if that's what the BE is looking for, then TCU would be out of the picture. I don't think that's really the case though, and the school has more than enough going for it to make it an attractive option

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A bit of clarification here. TCU is not religiously affiliated (Catholic or otherwise), so if that's what the BE is looking for, then TCU would be out of the picture. I don't think that's really the case though, and the school has more than enough going for it to make it an attractive option

Except geography. I know what you mean by "attractive" - meaning, "recruiting", "TV contracts", and all that crap. But the definition of attractive has changed.

I can't believe Jim Boeheim is thrilled about potentially flying to Texas for league games.

[DFW HOYA]

A bit of clarification here. TCU is not religiously affiliated (Catholic or otherwise), so if that's what the BE is looking for, then TCU would be out of the picture.

You may want to check the "C" in TCU.

http://www.tcu.edu/96.asp

[henfan]

Except geography. I know what you mean by "attractive" - meaning, "recruiting", "TV contracts", and all that crap. But the definition of attractive has changed.

I can't believe Jim Boeheim is thrilled about potentially flying to Texas for league games.

Can't imagine that flying to the east coast from Texas and back holds a special attraction for the dozen plus other coaches of TCU's non-revenue Olympic sports programs. This is a completely cynical move by the BEC.

[Collegefootballfan]

The perfect solution would be the addition of Georgetown.
It has more going for it then any other school in the Big East now.
The problem with Nova's move up has been expressed in numerous posts.
The major problem with Georgetown and its a big one,
Is the total lack of support for the program.
In a perfect world there is no reason why Georgetown cannot be what Boston College
was in the Big East.
Same traditions, perfect location, rich alumni, In D.C, would be the major college
football team in a football crazed city, It has all the basic foundations Boston College
used to build a well rounded and successful D1 team in an area dominated by the pro's.
The difference was that B.C. was dedicated to making the program happen.
The school from the administration to the athletic department and alumni and students
all supported the program.
I am sure that Georgetown could do the same. Its only needs a focus, a plan
and the desire to make it happen. For those who doubt it just look down the road
from Georgetown and Look what is happening at Old Dominion , An think
what could be done at Georgetown.

[Dane96]

Been under a rock lately? GTown doesnt have the desire or finances.

[Collegefootballfan]

That's the whole point,
You mean to tell me that there is not one person related to Georgetown that has
not seen the potential that a successful football program could add to the school.
With this negative attitude the Basketball program would never have achieved
the success it has.
Maybe I do live under a rock .
But If you look at the school and the location , the tradition, and alumni you do have
the potential for a successful program.
Again Georgetown has the same foundations B.C has but the only thing that is missing
is that B.C. once again as noted in a earlier post had the determination to follow a plan
that got it to where it is today.
Instead you have Georgetown current situation , a program that has great kids, that
give 100% every week . That play in facilities that are fair at best.
Frustrated parents and students and alumni . Wondering why nothing is getting
done. It really is a shame that with all the potential the school has that it puts up
with the current situation. Georgetown is a great university that should be supported
and funded and if supported could have what B.C. has.
A great D 1 football program .

[Dane96]

Ummm no.

BC had land...BC had a ton of money...BC had a big gift to build the initial stadium.

None of that exists at GTown.

[TheValleyRaider]

Except geography. I know what you mean by "attractive" - meaning, "recruiting", "TV contracts", and all that crap. But the definition of attractive has changed.

I can't believe Jim Boeheim is thrilled about potentially flying to Texas for league games.

Like anything else, this is about football. More eyes watching the Big East, more locations to recruit for football, improving the conference footprint and bringing in a current Top 10 program. This is about money, and even in the Big East, football brings more money to the table


You may want to check the "C" in TCU.

http://www.tcu.edu/96.asp

The affiliation with the Disciples has diminished drastically in recent years. The administration itself is secular, and the University has been de-emphasizing the "Christian" aspect of their name, referring to the school as TCU whenever possible. It is certainly not comparable to the relationship between Church and School in most of the Big East's programs

That all being said, it's a red herring. The religious affiliation of TCU or Big East members (such as it is) will not play a significant role in the decision-making here xtwocentsx

[Collegefootballfan]

B.C, also had a plan and a athletic dept added by a president that was determined
to keep B.C, in D 1 football. Up until the 70's B.C, was playing regional
rivalries with the one or two big national powers. I can still remember how everyone
was excited to hear about them playing national power Texas at the old
then new Schaefer Stadium.
In the early 70's they stilled played Holy Cross.
Then the Flutie years came along and that is when the program really took off.
Charter member of the Big East then the movement to the ACC.
If Boston College didn't have a plan and a dedication to follow it ,
To go out and contact alumni and donors to support the plan
Then Boston College would be in Georgetown position.
Boston College always knew for the college to grow to where it is today,
athletic and football would play a major role.
It was still only about 20 years ago that B.C, was still mostly a local
commuter school and not the national institution it is today.
As for the stadium they have played in the same area on campus for most of the
time the stadium only started to be improved along with the rest of the new
buildings on campus after the football team and Flutie brought all the attention.
Again Georgetown has all the same traditions and base B.C. had and the
only difference is that there is no leadership or dedication to make it happen
Sad but true

[TheMinuteman]

UNH and UMASS don't have the money...Georgia State is a non-starter; they are not going to try to gain the Atlanta market that is cornered by GTech and UGA.

Umass does have the Money dean of the college of business spoke in my class about moving up to FBS in my class the other week

[Redbird Ray]

If Villanova does end up playing Big East football, I think they should play their games at Citizens Bank Ballpark. I don't know why, but I love it when football games are played at baseball stadiums.

Can Nova play at Franklin Field or does Penn own the rights to that thing? Ideally, I would like to see Nova get a new stadium similar to UConn's (doesn't have to be on-campus, I suppose).

Exciting time to be a Nova fan though!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If Villanova does end up playing Big East football, I think they should play their games at Citizens Bank Ballpark. I don't know why, but I love it when football games are played at baseball stadiums.

Can Nova play at Franklin Field or does Penn own the rights to that thing? Ideally, I would like to see Nova get a new stadium similar to UConn's (doesn't have to be on-campus, I suppose).

Exciting time to be a Nova fan though!

Villanova would likely be able to play at Franklin Field. Temple played 2-3 games a year there while in the BE. The problem is while the stadium is "cool" it won't attract recruits. It's in serious need of renovations. Citizens Bank would be a pretty good option but the odds would seem pretty low imo.

There is absolutely no way Villanova could afford to build their own stadium in SEPA. It's a private school with a modest endowment.

The whole "where will 'Nova play" so interesting because there is no great solution. It will have to be a compromise of some sort.

[NovaWildcat]

henfan, I'm not suggesting that Villanova will get kicked out of the big east. I'm saying the conference will split and the catholic league will dwindle into a glorified A10. The TV $$$ wont be there, and without that, you'll severely handicapped.

No one wants Memphis in the Big East because their football is beyond garbage, and besides a down-hill headed basketball team, they have nothing. Terrible academic school as well.

PPL park is the destination for Villanova if a move is made. There is no reason to discuss any other stadium because its not going to happen. Yes whatever its tiny, who cares, we dont so leave the issue alone.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown?!?!? Wow. That hardly merits a response. They spend nothing on athletics...besides basketball, their programs are incredibly underfunded. They do not do well in the Big East in anything besides basketball. Nova on the other hand has several high-profile sports.

Do your homework.

2009 Athletic Expenses:
Georgetown: $28,970,368
Villanova: $25,672,044

http://www.bbstate.com/info/schools-budget

2009-10 NCAA tournament sport participants:
Georgetown (10): Men's basketball, women's basketball, men's cross country, women's cross country, men's golf, women's soccer, women's indoor track, women's lacrosse, men's outdoor track, women's outdoor track.
Villanova (7): Football, men's basketball, men's cross country, women's cross country, women's soccer, women's indoor track, women's outdoor track.

[NovaWildcat]

I stand corrected. Man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Georgetown still didn't get an invite so I don't know why that poster is wasting his breath.

[superman7515]

Much like UNC-W, Drexel, VCU, George Mason... all of the non-football playing schools have an open invitation to join the Big East in football. They made specific overtures to Villanova, but if Marquette decided tomorrow they were going to start football, they would be allowed to play football in the Big East. Beano Cook and another ESPN commentator whose name escapes me at the moment have talked about this several times since the summer. If Georgetown doesn't go, that's because they chose not to. There's an open invite, they just weren't specifically asked like Villanova was.

[Redbird Ray]

If Marquette ever gets major college football, they will have sellout crowds every week. Milwaukee is one of the most underrated sports cities in the country and Cheeseheads love football more than beer and sausage.

UW-Madison has a monopoly on their hands in the sense that they are the only team in the entire state when it comes to D1 football. Another major team in Cheddarland wouldn't hurt them at all. Wonder how the NCAA would feel about having Marquette games played at Miller Park though?

I doubt any Big East private school not named Villanova gets a serious offer like this anytime soon though. That said, if these smaller private schools can eventually find a way to start up a football program, I wouldn't mind seeing more of these schools play FCS football.

[Sec310]

I thought Franklin Field was torn down. I know the Vet was torn down, but for some reason I remember reading that Franklin Field was torn down.

[superman7515]

No. It wasn't.

[Dane96]

Umass does have the Money dean of the college of business spoke in my class about moving up to FBS in my class the other week

UMASS does not have the money.

They absolutely 100% do not have the 200mm + dollars it will take to get the program off the ground without State help, a request of the State that was rejected as recently as 5 months ago. They have to build roads, expand/build stadium and facilities...etc. The scholarships are not the issue.

[heath]

Villanova football,just like their basketball program will join the BE and do well even with the modest facilites on campus. The basketball team plays all of their BIG games in Philly,so its natural to think the football team would also use the bigger venue at Philly to get the so-called 15,000 average attendance needed.(though not enforced).Temple,Marshall and ECU would then give the 12 teams you need, unless thinking about raiding the ACC and getting Maryland or BC.

[Dane96]

B.C, also had a plan and a athletic dept added by a president that was determined
to keep B.C, in D 1 football. Up until the 70's B.C, was playing regional
rivalries with the one or two big national powers. I can still remember how everyone
was excited to hear about them playing national power Texas at the old
then new Schaefer Stadium.
In the early 70's they stilled played Holy Cross.
Then the Flutie years came along and that is when the program really took off.
Charter member of the Big East then the movement to the ACC.
If Boston College didn't have a plan and a dedication to follow it ,
To go out and contact alumni and donors to support the plan
Then Boston College would be in Georgetown position.
Boston College always knew for the college to grow to where it is today,
athletic and football would play a major role.
It was still only about 20 years ago that B.C, was still mostly a local
commuter school and not the national institution it is today.
As for the stadium they have played in the same area on campus for most of the
time the stadium only started to be improved along with the rest of the new
buildings on campus after the football team and Flutie brought all the attention.
Again Georgetown has all the same traditions and base B.C. had and the
only difference is that there is no leadership or dedication to make it happen
Sad but true

None of this is news to me. You are still missing the point; Georgetown does not have money to move up...in fact the school is reported to have financial issues stemming from the medical school (maybe DFW can confirm this?) They can't even finish plans for the multi-purpose field They don't have the land to build a stadium...though maybe they share with the Redskins.

Fact is...there is more than planning required; If they can't raise money for other things...why football?

[UAalum72]

I thought Franklin Field was torn down. I know the Vet was torn down, but for some reason I remember reading that Franklin Field was torn down.
Maybe you read Franklin Field SHOULD be torn down.

102,00-seat Municipal/JFK Stadium, home of the Army/Navy game, was torn down in 1992 on the site of the Wells Fargo/formerly Wachovia Center.


15681

The Spectrum closed last year and will be torn down in the future.

[AppMan]

UCF & Villanova to the Big East, ASU to CUSA. The Wildcats will draw very well once they get into the the league. Look what happened at UConn once they became a member. They didn't draw flies in 1-aa. There will be Nova fans coming out of the woodwork once the move is announced.

[bkrownd]

If Marquette ever gets major college football, they will have sellout crowds every week.

Hehe - Wisconsin-Whitewater needs more victims to beat up on.

[henfan]

The Wildcats will draw very well once they get into the the league. Look what happened at UConn once they became a member. They didn't draw flies in 1-aa. There will be Nova fans coming out of the woodwork once the move is announced.

BEC FB didn't work for Temple and they are a school with a much larger alumni base and have a campus actually located IN the city of Philadelphia.

If VU were THE state university as UConn is and if the state constructed a 45K-seat stadium for them as CT did for the Huskies, it might be a more apt comparison. VU has none of those advantages and, to top it off, has a history of poor attendance at the I-A level.

[Go...gate]

UMass does have the money. The Dean of the College of Business spoke in my class about moving up to FBS in my class the other week.

Other than Delaware moving up, this always made the most sense to me.

[NovaWildcat]

BEC FB didn't work for Temple and they are a school with a much larger alumni base and have a campus actually located IN the city of Philadelphia.

If VU were THE state university as UConn is and if the state constructed a 45K-seat stadium for them as CT did for the Huskies, it might be a more apt comparison. VU has none of those advantages and, to top it off, has a history of poor attendance at the I-A level.

Look at Temple basketball. They don't draw at all and they've had some good teams (top 25 last year). The issue isn't Philadelphians going to see football...it's Philadelphians dont want to see TEMPLE.

And as we've been over in numerous threads here, Temple football was so atrocious that they were KICKED OUT of the Big East. We're talking significantly under .500 for a sustained period of time. No one wants to see that crap.

Henfan, take your Villanova hatred somewhere else. Lets not go over the same old songs again.

[Dane96]

This...is why UMASS won't be FBS for a long while barring an epic change by the legislature:

"UConn has flourished thanks to the $1.1 billion the state of Connecticut has poured into new classrooms, labs, dorms, and other facilities at its flagship campus in Storrs in the past 15 years, with another billion in the pipeline. In the same period, UMass Amherst received only $145.3 million from the state for buildings, university officials said.

Between 1995 and 2007, UConn received, on average, $4,245 per student each year from its state for capital projects, while UMass Amherst received $325 per student, according to the most recent comparison produced by UMass. State funding for UMass’s operating budget has dropped over the past decade, while state funding for UConn has risen."

"In this economic environment, I don’t see any governor or legislator willing to roll the dice on a $100 million bet on’’ the Football Bowl Subdivision, Karam said. “You hear alumni saying they’d love to do it, but when you do a survey on the checks people are willing to write to support it, they don’t match up.’’

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Look at Temple basketball. They don't draw at all and they've had some good teams (top 25 last year). The issue isn't Philadelphians going to see football...it's Philadelphians dont want to see TEMPLE.

And as we've been over in numerous threads here, Temple football was so atrocious that they were KICKED OUT of the Big East. We're talking significantly under .500 for a sustained period of time. No one wants to see that crap.

Henfan, take your Villanova hatred somewhere else. Lets not go over the same old songs again.

Temple was certainly bad, and that likely had something to do with their attendance woes. Villanova on the other hand has been successful at the FCS level, but still routinely fails to fill the current small stadium. I don't think the question is whether Villanova could be competitive in BE football, based on their FCS record I think that they certainly could, but whether or not the added expense of FBS play would be offset by increased attendance. Finding a 30,000+ seat stadium is only half the battle if less than 10,000 people on average still show up to see the games.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Look at Temple basketball. They don't draw at all and they've had some good teams (top 25 last year). The issue isn't Philadelphians going to see football...it's Philadelphians dont want to see TEMPLE.

And as we've been over in numerous threads here, Temple football was so atrocious that they were KICKED OUT of the Big East. We're talking significantly under .500 for a sustained period of time. No one wants to see that crap.

Henfan, take your Villanova hatred somewhere else. Lets not go over the same old songs again.

To say we don't draw at all is not an accurate statement. I believe we averaged 7,200 last season which for the A10 is pretty good. You're not going to get the casual philly fan to come up to north broad to see GWU, SBU or Duquense. Those are the games that kill our attendance. For games against Kansas, Villanova, Xavier, Dayton, St. Joe's, La Salle etc. we do just fine.

Villanova's attendance has taken off with their success. But, when they were mediocre in the late 90's early 2000's they were by no means knocking it dead. There's a reason why Villanova does not move all their home games to the Wells Fargo Center. Even a great 'Nova team would struggle to get 8-9k for games Seton Hall, USF, Rutgers etc. That's why 'Nova continues to play those games at the 6500 seat ski lodge. Otherwise financially speaking it doesn't make any sense to short change themselves. UCONN is in the same situation with the XL Center and Gampel.

The Philly college sports market is not an easy sell no matter who you are. What it boils down to is Philly is absolutely a pro sports town first. There's a ceiling for all the Philly schools.

Temple football absolutely deserved to get the boot from the BE, we were terrible. One of the problems at Temple is how diverse the student bodys is and its commuter school roots. There's still a large number of students and alums that do not care about college athletics. That's slowly changing. With that said, compared to our peers in the MAC Temple is leading the conference in attendance. Compared to their peers in the CAA i believe 'Nova is 5th or 6th.

Were you at the Temple-Villanova game this year? If you were you had to be dissapointed by the Villanova turnout. The students outnumbered the fans/alums 2-1. Heck, i was dissapointed at Temple's attendance for the UCONN game. It's not just a Villanova or Temple thing. It's a Philly college sports thing.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

UCF ... to the Big East, ASU to CUSA.

This is the best idea in this whole thread ... as long as the other BE school isn't ECU, which I don't expect them to be.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the "pro sports" argument gets tired upon review.

Seattle is a pro sports town and Univ of Washington draws fine.
San Francisco supports two I-A schools.
LA may not be an NFL town, but USC and UCLA each draw very well.
Denver supports the Broncos and the Buffs.
Dallas-Ft. Worth supports three different I-A teams and they combine to average about 70,000.
The Steelers and Pitt get along attendance-wise.
The Redskins and the Terps play 5 miles apart and both fill their stadiums.

Bottom line, if a team wins consistently, they can draw the big city crowds. Too often, teams in Philadelphia, Buffalo, and New Orleans haven't.

[NovaWildcat]

Again, Villanova fans just wont pay to see us play FCS football - no matter how good we are. We compete at the highest level in every facest of the University, and that doesn't hold true for football. Some of us diehards don't care about that, but the general population does.

To be disappointed by the Villanova turnout at the VU/Temple game is outrageous. We've had arguments about how many were on each side, but the fact of the matter was that was Temple's highest attended game of the season BY FAR. I don't have the #'s in front of me but I don't think that's very close.

Temple basketball attendance last year was not good considering that they were ranked most of the year. You either didn't go to games or don't frequent the Cherry & White board on Rivals, because there were complaints all around about the attendance. They filled for us and #1 Kansas, and maybe Xavier. No one else.

Speaking of Nova basketball playing in Philly since you so kindly brought it up - we play DELAWARE at the Wells Fargo Center this year. Blue Hen fans care to chime in about the power that is your program? Or the amount of fans you'll bring? And you know what, all Villanova fans are OK with our decisions to play in the "SKI LODGE" because we love our packed house - and if you've ever been there its a mad house with the student section right on the court. We have a pretty good situation set up between Philly and the Pavilion. Georgetown Hoya fans can speak first hand how much it sucks to play in a half filled NBA arena against lower level BE team and non-conference foes. Unless you're Kentucky or Kansas, I'd say our situation is pretty enviable.

While I would agree with you that the Philly college market IS a tough sell - Temple doesn't seem to be the standard to go by because of a consistent difficulty to attract fans in and of itself.

As for filling a 30k stadium right away - it wont need to happen (and admittedly, couldn't). We're going to start out in PPL in Chester which is 18.5k. We'll fill that. The stadium has expansion plans for the near future with Villanova in mind. It eventually can go up to 30k. Baby steps. As long as our program is "Acceptable" that's ok with the Villanova community. Just no more FCS and no BE split - DISCLAIMER: those aren't my feelings, but by and large Villanova as a whole.

[BearsCountry]

UW-Madison has a monopoly on their hands in the sense that they are the only team in the entire state when it comes to D1 football. Another major team in Cheddarland wouldn't hurt them at all. Wonder how the NCAA would feel about having Marquette games played at Miller Park though?

Brewers won't allow football at Miller Park.

[NovaWildcat]

Yesterday's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/02/AR2010110203168.html

"The 6,500-seat Pavilion is always jammed to the rafters and their handful of games in South Philadelphia draw in one game what the regular tenant, the Philadelphia 76ers, need at least two to match. The Sixers averaged 14,224 fans last season at the Wells Fargo Center while Villanova played to a near-capacity crowd average of 19,001 fans in its six dates in South Philly last year. That number is bumped to seven this season, eight if Tuesday night's exhibition is counted."

"And it's no longer just the Big East heavyweights booked as the opponent to draw a crowd - Delaware and St. John's are on the Wells Fargo Center schedule this year. The Wildcats boast of their "Nova Nation" and it looks more like a continent when dressed in blue at the WFC."

"These days, buying a ticket at Temple is as easy as simply showing up. The Owls have one of the most apathetic fan bases of any Top 25 program and routinely fall well short of selling out their newer, nicer arena just a few miles away in North Philadelphia. The Owls, though, are affected by playing in the Atlantic 10."

Trash our football attendance all you want. Don't touch basketball. Through our basketball program, we've built a strong fan base. The hope is that this carries over to football. Maybe it will, maybe it wont. But there's a chance. Just because Temple failed miserably doesn't mean we will too.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think the "pro sports" argument gets tired upon review.

Seattle is a pro sports town and Univ of Washington draws fine.
San Francisco supports two I-A schools.
LA may not be an NFL town, but USC and UCLA each draw very well.
Denver supports the Broncos and the Buffs.
Dallas-Ft. Worth supports three different I-A teams and they combine to average about 70,000.
The Steelers and Pitt get along attendance-wise.
The Redskins and the Terps play 5 miles apart and both fill their stadiums.

Bottom line, if a team wins conssitently, they'll draw the big city crowds. Too often, teams in Philadelphia, Buffalo, and New Orleans haven't.

It seems to be much more of an issue in the Northeast.

Pitt does not set the world on fire in regards to football. Hoops does very well, football is at best OK.
There's a reason why Folsom Field has 50k seats. Even so they don't fill them anymore. What do they average for hoops? 6-7k?
San Fran supports two college teams is true. What you failed to mention is Stanford has a 40k seat stadium now because there was no need for the 80k seat old one. Their bball arena seats 7k.
The comment about Maryland is funny. The Terps are having a terrible year attendance wise. Just last week was the smallest crowd in the Friedgen era. Plus how many seats does Byrd have? 50k? Why is that?
How's Rutgers doing these days? BC?

Here's an article that was in the Washington Post two days ago regarding Marylands attendance trouble. Obviously you're completely out of the loop being in DFW.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/terrapins-insider/2010/11/if_maryland_wins_the_acc_will.html

[superman7515]

Not to mention that since we're talking about sports towns and it's the Washington Redskins, not the Landover Redskins, you should be comparing the NFL leading 88,638 in attendance at Redskins games to the 88+ in attendance at Georgetown games....

Maybe Ravens/Terps would be a more appropriate comparison.

[Sec310]

Yesterday's Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/02/AR2010110203168.html

Trash our football attendance all you want. Don't touch basketball. Through our basketball program, we've built a strong fan base. The hope is that this carries over to football. Maybe it will, maybe it wont. But there's a chance. Just because Temple failed miserably doesn't mean we will too.

But your basketball program is still a douchebag program for being scared to play in the Big 5. Then Rollo did a "Fresh Prince" and ran, scared, out of Philly.

[NovaWildcat]

But your basketball program is still a douchebag program for being scared to play in the Big 5. Then Rollo did a "Fresh Prince" and ran, scared, out of Philly.

I don't see other Big East teams agreeing to a set schedule of Ivy/mid-major opponents every year.
It's enough that we lock ourselves into garbage like Penn & LaSalle every year, we don't need to play our own home games in the Palestra. If you haven't noticed, Temple does the same thing, too.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

To be disappointed by the Villanova turnout at the VU/Temple game is outrageous. We've had arguments about how many were on each side, but the fact of the matter was that was Temple's highest attended game of the season BY FAR. I don't have the #'s in front of me but I don't think that's very close.

Temple basketball attendance last year was not good considering that they were ranked most of the year. You either didn't go to games or don't frequent the Cherry & White board on Rivals, because there were complaints all around about the attendance. They filled for us and #1 Kansas, and maybe Xavier. No one else.

Speaking of Nova basketball playing in Philly since you so kindly brought it up - we play DELAWARE at the Wells Fargo Center this year. Blue Hen fans care to chime in about the power that is your program? Or the amount of fans you'll bring? And you know what, all Villanova fans are OK with our decisions to play in the "SKI LODGE" because we love our packed house - and if you've ever been there its a mad house with the student section right on the court. We have a pretty good situation set up between Philly and the Pavilion. Georgetown Hoya fans can speak first hand how much it sucks to play in a half filled NBA arena against lower level BE team and non-conference foes. Unless you're Kentucky or Kansas, I'd say our situation is pretty enviable.

While I would agree with you that the Philly college market IS a tough sell - Temple doesn't seem to be the standard to go by because of a consistent difficulty to attract fans in and of itself.

As for filling a 30k stadium right away - it wont need to happen (and admittedly, couldn't). We're going to start out in PPL in Chester which is 18.5k. We'll fill that. The stadium has expansion plans for the near future with Villanova in mind. It eventually can go up to 30k. Baby steps. As long as our program is "Acceptable" that's ok with the Villanova community. Just no more FCS and no BE split - DISCLAIMER: those aren't my feelings, but by and large Villanova as a whole.

I'll be interested to see how Villanova does against Delaware and St. John's at the Wells Fargo Center. That will be a good barometer. Temple's home games against Seton Hall and Georgetown will be our litmus tests.

I'm always on the Cherry and White board, TUowl06 is my name on there, so i know whats going on. I'm an active supporter of TU athletics. In fact i'm going out to Ohio this weekend for the Kent State game.

Our attendance should be better relative to our success but it's not terrible. It's decent and compared to our peers in the A10, pretty good. If we can get 6-7k for a weeknight ho-hum A10 game that's not too bad. Obviously, for those games you'll easily be able to get a ticket at the door.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Speaking of Nova basketball playing in Philly since you so kindly brought it up - we play DELAWARE at the Wells Fargo Center this year. Blue Hen fans care to chime in about the power that is your program? Or the amount of fans you'll bring? And you know what, all Villanova fans are OK with our decisions to play in the "SKI LODGE" because we love our packed house - and if you've ever been there its a mad house with the student section right on the court.


In all fairness, no one is speaking ill of Villanova's basketball program. Villanova has a winning tradition in basketball, and has proven they can bring the fans in. As far as football goes, UD fills a 20,000 seat stadium regularly in the same league 45 minutes away from Villanova. Villanova struggles to come close to half of that number, despite fielding a high quality team.

You may be right in that VU students would like to see the football team play the teams they recognize from the basketball program, and that could help attendance. Personally, I think moving to the BE while there is an offer on the table makes sense for 'Nova, but I don't know if I share your confidence that you will immediately fill PPL.

[DFW HOYA]

Not to mention that since we're talking about sports towns and it's the Washington Redskins, not the Landover Redskins, you should be comparing the NFL leading 88,638 in attendance at Redskins games to the 88+ in attendance at Georgetown games....
Maybe Ravens/Terps would be a more appropriate comparison.

FedEx Field is Exit 17 on the Capital Beltway, UMd. is Exit 23...practically neighbors. Maryland is drawing 37,880 a game with a home schedule that includes welterweights such as Morgan State, FIU, Duke, and Wake Forest...not a lot of traveling fans from Ft. Lauderdale for a game.

Georgetown's attendance is 2,538 a game for a 2,400 seat field with less than 100 surface parking spaces available. What should the realistic attendance be in your view?

[NovaWildcat]

I'll be interested to see how Villanova does against Delaware and St. John's at the Wells Fargo Center. That will be a good barometer. Temple's home games against Seton Hall and Georgetown will be our lithmus tests.

I'm always on the Cherry and White board, TUowl06 is my name on there, so i know whats going on. I'm an active supporter of TU athletics. In fact i'm going out to Ohio this weekend for the Kent State game.

Our attendance should be better relative to our success but it's not terrible. It's decent and compared to our peers in the A10, pretty good. If we can get 6-7k for a weeknight ho-hum A10 game that's not too bad. Obviously, for those games you'll easily be able to get a ticket at the door.

Spot on, don't disagree with a thing there.

In general, attendance is largely based on who you play week to week. We wish it weren't the case and that fans would support the team whether we play Towson or Rutgers, but unfortunately that's not the case.

For the record - I read Cherry & White as well (mostly during basketball season) because I like to see how Temple is doing. I'd say most Villanova fans pull for Temple to do well because their success (in both sports) is good for us.

As to the confidence in filling PPL at 18.5k - I think that you're going to see a lot of alumni come out of the woodwork IF a move is made. I really get the sense that the checkbooks will come out if it happens, in my opinion.

[Sec310]

I don't see other Big East teams agreeing to a set schedule of Ivy/mid-major opponents every year.
It's enough that we lock ourselves into garbage like Penn & LaSalle every year, we don't need to play our own home games in the Palestra. If you haven't noticed, Temple does the same thing, too.

But it was Nova, under Rollie, who started the break down of the Big 5.

Other than G-Town and maybe St. John's. how many other BE schools have 3-6 D1 schools in the city/general area? And none of them have a tradition like the Big 5.

[Dane96]

It seems to be much more of an issue in the Northeast.

Pitt does not set the world on fire in regards to football. Hoops does very well, football is at best OK.
There's a reason why Folsom Field has 50k seats. Even so they don't fill them anymore. What do they average for hoops? 6-7k?
San Fran supports two college teams is true. What you failed to mention is Stanford has a 40k seat stadium now because there was no need for the 80k seat old one. Their bball arena seats 7k.
The comment about Maryland is funny. The Terps are having a terrible year attendance wise. Just last week was the smallest crowd in the Friedgen era. Plus how many seats does Byrd have? 50k? Why is that?
How's Rutgers doing these days? BC?

Here's an article that was in the Washington Post two days ago regarding Marylands attendance trouble. Obviously you're completely out of the loop being in DFW.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/terrapins-insider/2010/11/if_maryland_wins_the_acc_will.html


Folsom Field only seats 50k because of its location...it really can't be expanded. They count actual fannies in seats...but seats sold are sold out.

That said, they have been averaging around 49-50k asses in a seat for a while now (3,000 actual attendees shy of physical body sell-outs). You also forget that Colorado State is about 45 minutes up the highway from Denver. So, they are supporting not one...but TWO FBS college teams....not to mention that other school about 1hr and 45 minutes south....Air Force. You also forget that CU has gone down the tubes with HAWKINS as head coach. With the Pac-Ten invite...the school has already asked Coors for a sizeable financial sum that would allow them to expand Folsom via moving other facilities.

And yeah, my sister and brother-in-law have been season ticket holders for 5 years...and were on a wait list prior to that.

Stanford reduced the size on the rebuild...not only because they didnt fill 80,000 seats (many schools couldnt do that) but because of prohibitive costs.

As for Maryland (where my sister graduated from)...they are terrible...so why would fans show up. They are just waiting for Ralph to be long-gone (though I like the guy, his teams have faltered and the attendance has suffered). When Byrd is packed...it's a tough place to play.

Rutgers is doing well attendance wise...and they suck...and Boston has NEVER EVER supported BC, BU, NU, Harvard, etc. the way they should. This is the one city that truly is ONLY A PRO city.

[NovaWildcat]

But it was Nova, under Rollie, who started the break down of the Big 5.

Other than G-Town and maybe St. John's. how many other BE schools have 3-6 D1 schools in the city/general area? And none of them have a tradition like the Big 5.

Seton Hall, Rutgers, DePaul all have a ton of schools around them as well.

In fact, there was an article on ESPN yesterday that mentioned the possible formation of the "The Chicago 5" as new DU head coach Oliver Purnell called-it. The difference was that they would only play one, maybe two city-rival each year.

Again, no BE (or major conference school for that matter) is obliged to play AT teams like LaSalle, Penn every other year. Sure there is "tradition" - but that didn't stop Nebraska from leaving the B12 or BC from leaving the BE. Douchebags, too?

Lets stay on topic.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Again, no BE (or major conference school for that matter) is obliged to play AT teams like LaSalle, Penn every other year. Sure there is "tradition" - but that didn't stop Nebraska from leaving the B12 or BC from leaving the BE. Douchebags, too?

Lets stay on topic.

Yes. xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's enough that we lock ourselves into garbage like Penn & LaSalle

I always enjoy when a poster refers to another college, its teams and its fans as "garbage." Especially when the poster writes from such a position of such knowledge and authority.

[NovaWildcat]

I always enjoy when a poster refers to another college, its teams and its fans as "garbage." Especially when the poster writes from such a position of such knowledge and authority.

My apologies, let me clarify - their basketball teams are very weak and provide us with no benefit. They aren't good "rivalries." The fact that we agree to play them EVERY YEAR, and at their place once every two years is enough on our end.

Garbage was too harsh of a phrase.

[Sec310]

Seton Hall, Rutgers, DePaul all have a ton of schools around them as well.

In fact, there was an article on ESPN yesterday that mentioned the possible formation of the "The Chicago 5" as new DU head coach Oliver Purnell called-it. The difference was that they would only play one, maybe two city-rival each year.

Again, no BE (or major conference school for that matter) is obliged to play AT teams like LaSalle, Penn every other year. Sure there is "tradition" - but that didn't stop Nebraska from leaving the B12 or BC from leaving the BE. Douchebags, too?

Lets stay on topic.

I was staying on topic. Anytime douchebags and Nova are mentioned, it's on topic.

You're right about DePaul, but I keep forgetting they are in the BE. Plus those douchebags woud never play Loyola, the only school in Chicago that has won a NCAA title.

But, while Seton Hall and Rutgers are in the NYC area, they aren't exactly close.

[NovaWildcat]

I was staying on topic. Anytime douchebags and Nova are mentioned, it's on topic.

You're right about DePaul, but I keep forgetting they are in the BE. Plus those douchebags woud never play Loyola, the only school in Chicago that has won a NCAA title.

But, while Seton Hall and Rutgers are in the NYC area, they aren't exactly close.

DI basketball schools in NJ:
Farleigh Dickinson, Princeton, St. Peter's, Monmouth, Rider & NJIT.

New Jersey isn't exactly a big state.

So we're douchebags because we outgrew a fictitious league, yet still agree to play in it. Got it. What high-standing University do you root for?

[VUCats02]

None of this says anything we already don't know, but the president sent out a letter including updates on what villanova is trying to accomplish and about their strategic plan forward. The letter includes many things but in the middle of it is a little update on the football situation. Just thought I'd share it even though it doesn't say a whole lot.

"Coach Talley’s team is again enjoying a successful season. They are ranked #3 in the nation and have played well in defense of the national championship they won last year. Despite the stellar performance of the team, much of the football conversation on campus and among our alumni is focused on whether or not Villanova will join the Big East as a football member. As you know, the University is a member of the conference for all other varsity sports. Joining the Big East as a football member would require the program to move from the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) to the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS). This would represent a significant change for the University and its Athletics Department. At the request of the Board of Trustees, we are in the process of evaluating all aspects of making – or not making – such a change to our football program. This is a comprehensive and thorough process that requires a great deal of analysis and discussion. Part of the process will include an opportunity for students, faculty and staff to provide thoughts and input. A series of Football Conversations will be announced shortly and I encourage you to attend. We are also examining ways to receive alumni input.

I urge everyone to keep on open mind during this evaluation. Whatever decision we make must be the right one for the University both now and into the future. Despite media speculation, this process is still ongoing and we expect it to continue into early 2011. We are in constant communication with the Big East conference and they are both aware and supportive of our timeline for making this important decision."

Anything to make of this? In my opinion, there's a little bit of a pessimistic tone to this, but it's hard to make out anything for sure.

[Go...gate]

I don't see other Big East teams agreeing to a set schedule of Ivy/mid-major opponents every year.
It's enough that we lock ourselves into garbage like Penn & LaSalle every year, we don't need to play our own home games in the Palestra. If you haven't noticed, Temple does the same thing, too.

Penn and LaSalle "garbage"? Dream on. Moreover, you guys brought down the Big Five, not Temple.

[Go...gate]

DI basketball schools in NJ:
Farleigh Dickinson, Princeton, St. Peter's, Monmouth, Rider & NJIT.

New Jersey isn't exactly a big state.

So we're douchebags because we outgrew a fictitious league, yet still agree to play in it. Got it. What high-standing University do you root for?

That is such a crock it is not funny.

[Sec310]

That is such a crock it is not funny.

For about five years after the Nova went to the Big East, Nova still played a full Big 5. Then CHICKEN Rollie, "Fresh Princed" out of the Big Five. Such a meatball, Rollie and such douchebags Nova fans.

[VUCats02]

hahaha lots of hatred for nova and their fans going on here. These comments are very amusing. It's better for us to be hated than for people to have no emotion at all towards us. "Hatred" towards a team is why people watch them. That's why the yankees and lakers get the highest ratings in the MLB and NBA. It's why Notre Dame has its own tv contract - hatred. So just keep hating and bashing nova and their fans. If you hate a team, you follow them and tune into their games and they gain popularity, so keep the hate comin! :-)

[NovaWildcat]

Ficticious league. Counts for nothing.
Our fans don't care about the other Philly schools. There is no rivalry. We LIKE Temple. LaSalle, Penn mean nothing to us. St. Joe's? We could care less about them, but they hate us anyway. Our players don't care about playing them. It's not like we're RECRUITING the same players. It's not even a level playing field. In an ideal world, we'd play Temple every year (because they remain competitive) and play the other 3 occasionally. The funny thing is, the third best team in Philly isn't even in the "Big 5."

But that's such a crock.

And yet we still play it! I don't know what "Sec" is referring to that we ran away. We just decided to play our HOME games at HOME. We still play the games. How many other Ivies play a home game against a Top 10 school every other year?

[Go...gate]

hahaha lots of hatred for nova and their fans going on here. These comments are very amusing. It's better for us to be hated than for people to have no emotion at all towards us. "Hatred" towards a team is why people watch them. That's why the yankees and lakers get the highest ratings in the MLB and NBA. It's why Notre Dame has its own tv contract - hatred. So just keep hating and bashing nova and their fans. If you hate a team, you follow them and tune into their games and they gain popularity, so keep the hate comin! :-)

You really think you are in Notre Dame's league as an athletic or academic institution?

[NovaWildcat]

You really think you are in Notre Dame's league as an athletic or academic institution?

Is that what VUCats02 said? Don't think so.

[Sec310]

Listen junior, Chicken Rollie, went from playing the full Big 5, mostly because he was LOSING to Penn, LaSalle, St. Joe's, and Temple, to playing the little sisters of the poor. Chicken Rollie's record in the Big 5 wasn't that great. This was mid to late 80's, when you were wearing diapers. He used the excuse "We have such a tough Big East schedule" we can't play in the Big 5.

Look, it's got nothing to do with hating Nova. I respect Nova, but call a spade a spade, Nova was the one who was scared of the Big 5 and they "Fresh Princed" it out, though instead of going to Beverly Hills,, Rollie went to Vegas.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Ficticious league. Counts for nothing.
Our fans don't care about the other Philly schools. There is no rivalry. We LIKE Temple. LaSalle, Penn mean nothing to us. St. Joe's? We could care less about them, but they hate us anyway. Our players don't care about playing them. It's not like we're RECRUITING the same players. It's not even a level playing field. In an ideal world, we'd play Temple every year (because they remain competitive) and play the other 3 occasionally. The funny thing is, the third best team in Philly isn't even in the "Big 5."

But that's such a crock.

And yet we still play it! I don't know what "Sec" is referring to that we ran away. We just decided to play our HOME games at HOME. We still play the games. How many other Ivies play a home game against a Top 10 school every other year?

Who do you consider the third best Philly basketball program, Drexel?

[VUCats02]

You really think you are in Notre Dame's league as an athletic or academic institution?

I didn't say this at all. I don't compare who's better when it comes to colleges athletically or academically. I'm on this board to talk football. All I was saying was that keep the hate towards 'Nova coming. If everyone (non-nova fans) liked nova football and only had good things to say about them, then nova football wouldn't be very good. If Nova football had a losing record for the past ten years, nobody would hate them. That's why for the past decade, if you are an Eagles, Cowboys, or Giants fan, you don't hate the Redskins because they have been the least relevant team. However, All Eagles fans hate the Giants and Cowboys, all Giants fans hate the Eagles and Cowboys, etc.

As long as your program is successful and wins a lot of games, then somehow, no matter what, people will find a way to hate the program - so I'm just taking all of these Nova-Bashing comments and embracing them! :-P

[laserm2r]

For Villanova to even get a sniff of playing in PPL Park, the Philadelphia Union soccer club owners are going to have to convice the team's supporters group, the Sons of Ben, to allow 'Nova to play there.

Trust me, the soccer fans want no part of sharing their home field with a football team. Not to mention all of the logistics and extra wear and tear on the field and the building.

That will be a high hurdle to climb, and I don't just don't see it happening.

[superman7515]

They just had an interview with Tom Veit a few weeks ago saying that they hadn't had anything but preliminary discussions with Villanova months ago and nothing since then and that it was far from a done deal. To add to that, Tom Veit just stepped down as president of the Philadelphia Union, which means they'd be starting all the discussions from the very beginning with a new club president to convince. Not only that, but there is already a contract signed with the Philadelphia Independence for them to start play there next year. Everyone has been saying the two is the limit for The Linc, so I have to wonder if that won't be the same for PPL Park. Not saying it can't happen, but three teams playing on the field at the same time may give PPL Park pause. All we can do is speculate, wait, and see.

[NovaWildcat]

PPL Park is owned by the county. They also operate the facility and have their own managers, president and whatnot.

It is not the decision of the Philadelphia Union whether or not Villanova plays there.

[superman7515]

You're right... and wrong...


Q. Can you explain, for people who don't know, who owns PPL Park and whether, if it's not the Union, that entity would have any say in what would happen?

A. The stadium itself is handled by the authority within Delaware County. We have a lease right to handle running the building. So we always talk to our partners about everything, in regards to doing that. But we haven't even gotten to that level yet.

Q. If the Delaware County authorities said they wanted it to happen, given Villanova's relative proximity on Interstate 476, what would you say?

A. We'd say what we've been saying. We're a soccer facility first and we're open to making anything work. If we can make it work with the primary mission of the building, we'll do it. If we can't, then we can't.

Q. If your fans say they don't want it, how much would that matter?

A. That would matter.

[TwoFeathers]

Why not add WM and Delaware to the Big East or ACC Expansion scenarios

W&M doesn't want to move up .... and attendance is maybe 1/5 of FBS requirements.

[Dane96]

?

You average almost 12,000 fans. The attendance requirement is 15,000 (though it is hardly enforced). I have no doubt you would get more than that if you were FBS. You dont have attendance issues...but I still dont think W&M is moving up...EVER.

[Aviator]

Two points:

1. I didn't know that it was the official policy of W&M not to move up. Could you cite this someplace?

2. Since W&M attendance is between 10 to 12,000, it would take a mandatory 50 to 60,000 to be a BE member? Do I have that right? You did say it was at 1/5 of the requirement ... right?

[Dane96]

One...I said it was my opinion.

Two...that seems to be the opinion of many W&M fans

Three...the reasons are numerous, including stadium size.

Four...there is no official minimum Big East stadium size, though Nippert is the smallest at 36k...and they are looking to expand. In the end, my guess is they end up playing games at the Bengals home field. The next smallest stadium is Rentschler Field at 40k.

Five...the NCAA goes on attendance (or is supposed to), and that...in my opinion wouldn't be a problem at W&M since FBS would get you up to the 15,000 mark.

That said, it is likely a 40,000 seat stadium would be the best thing to move up...and I am not sure where W&M would build it or get the funds to do so.

The most important thing of this whole concept: W&M isn't on the BE mind...at all. And yes, I have inside sources to cite that.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Most of the discussion on the 'Nova board that suggests the Villanova administraion is against a move to the BE.

http://villanova.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=562&tid=138443187&mid=138443187&sid=1000&style=2

[NovaWildcat]

Most of the discussion on the 'Nova board that suggests the Villanova administraion is against a move to the BE.

http://villanova.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=562&tid=138443187&mid=138443187&sid=1000&style=2

Paid board has the same sentiment. It's fairly well-known that our President and many key administrators are very hesitant about this move. As an aside those free boards have a real "anything goes" mentality - so while you will have some informative stuff on there, it's also littered with garbage.

[Go...gate]

I get a kick out of the one poster who says if Villanova does not go to the BE, they should quit funding scholarships and join the Patriot League. All this while the PL wrestles with the scholarship issue.

[henfan]

Many of those VU posters remind me of spoiled brats. "If I don't get what I want, I'm going to hold my breath!"

For Pete's sake, get out and support your very successful D-I football team and don't worry so much about labels and issues over which you have no control. Life's too short.

[Go...gate]

Many of those VU posters remind me of spoiled brats. "If I don't get what I want, I'm going to hold my breath!"

For Pete's sake, get out and support your very successful D-I football team and don't worry so much about labels and issues over which you have no control. Life's too short.

Amen.

[Sec310]

Many of those VU posters remind me of spoiled brats. "If I don't get what I want, I'm going to hold my breath!"

For Pete's sake, get out and support your very successful D-I football team and don't worry so much about labels and issues over which you have no control. Life's too short.

Is it any wonder, why Nova fans are douchebags? Unlike other schools, they brought back football in a relatively short time, 4-5 years, unlike some CA schools that are getting close to 20 years since their football programs were dropped. Nova is closer to going to the Big East, than those CA schools are to bringing back football. But they can't see, a school the size of Nova, is MAYBE playing in the right division for their program. G-Town doesn't have delusions of grandeur for their football program.

[VUCats02]

So out of the thousands and thousands of 'Nova fans in the country, you guys are judging "nova fans in general" as douchebags because of a couple posters on a message board? Any they contribute to how much of the total Villanova fan population? a fraction of 1%??? Hmm....