Foregone Conclusion - SLC Expansion Discussion [Archive]

TexasTerror

September 29th, 2010, 02:16 PM

SLC Commissioner Tom Burnett in Dan McCarney's blog (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/09/with-invitations-seeming-like.html#comments)... "Quite honestly, and this is just my personal opinion, but them going to the WAC is a foregone conclusion. It's a 'when,' not an 'if.'"

While we can debate whether or not the WAC sticks together long enough to bring those schools in with the help of the Realignment News and Reports (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?69748-Realignment-News-amp-Reports/) thread or the 8 Schools Making Presentation to WAC: TXST, UTSA, Montana in Mix (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?74701-8-Schools-Making-Presentation-to-WAC-TXST-UTSA-Montana-in-Mix/) thread... the big issue right now is the future of the Southland Conference.

If TXST and UTSA leave as expected, the make-up of the conference includes (for football) Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, Northwestern State, McNeese State, Central Arkansas, Nicholls and Southeastern Louisiana.

That could change to some degree in light of the Louisiana schools facing more budget problems (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?58721-Louisiana-schools-facing-more-budget-problems/) to the tune of 35 percent cuts next year, but let's put those aside.

Where should the SLC look for expansion?

We have already discussed whether or not the Southland is open to inviting Texas Southern and Prairie View (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?75265-SLC-Open-to-Inviting-Texas-Southern-Prairie-View/), but are those options realistic?

Is Tarleton State ready for a move?

Want me to throw out a Incarnate Word to Division I (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?48454-Incarnate-Word-to-Division-I) move? What other schools could possibly be in the discussion?

Do you even look to the school(s) left behind in the whole future of the Great West Conference (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?73441-Future-of-Great-West-Conference-as-Football-League) situation?

Cat79

September 29th, 2010, 03:35 PM

MaximumBobcat

September 29th, 2010, 03:39 PM

With recent reports of Tarelton State maybe not looking at going FCS...

Some good options would be Delta State, TAMU-Kingsville, and West Texas A&M.

LouiseBFree

September 29th, 2010, 03:56 PM

Why cant the Southland be a 10-team conference?

Appfan_in_CAAland

September 29th, 2010, 04:38 PM

Didn't West Texas A&M used to be a I-A school back in the 80s?

TexasTerror

September 29th, 2010, 05:23 PM

Why cant the Southland be a 10-team conference?

The issue is that we want nine football teams for eight games - four home, four away. I think that's ideal. I'd love if the SLC became a 10 football, 12 all-sports league.

Some good options would be Delta State, TAMU-Kingsville, and West Texas A&M.

Delta State's budget is around $4M and change - they would need to come up with another $3-4M. Not sure they can double their budget overnight...

El Gato

September 29th, 2010, 05:25 PM

If any of these Texas School move up to Div I, how would that affect recruiting amongst the Texas schools. Especially if TAMUK goes Div I, they are 3 hours South of SA, and they would cut into the South Texas recruiting pool.

rufus

September 29th, 2010, 05:53 PM

Didn't West Texas A&M used to be a I-A school back in the 80s?

1978-1980

WestCoastAggie

September 29th, 2010, 06:10 PM

Abilene Christian & Prairie View should be considered as serious options for SLC Expansion.

superman7515

September 29th, 2010, 06:26 PM

TexasTerror

September 29th, 2010, 07:45 PM

lionsrking2

September 29th, 2010, 08:47 PM

lionsrking2

September 29th, 2010, 08:55 PM

Would have to bridge Alabama to Louisiana with Mississippi, I'd think. All the Gulf South schools are game based on their situation with the league.

As far as geography goes, Livingston, AL isn't all that far from the SLC footprint, especially with Texas State and UTSA out of the mix...yes, it would be an outlier, and not ideal, but it's only 240 or so miles from Hammond, 290 from Thibodaux, 340 from Natchitoches and 400 from Conway and Lake Charles...SFA and Sam would have major hikes, but there are worse in some conferences around the country.

chrisattsu

September 29th, 2010, 08:57 PM

I don't know which LSC schools are ready to make the move.

The conference will shed the Northern Division (made of mostly Oklahoma Schools) which is what many of the members have wanted. The Texas schools held a considerable advantage over the Oklahoma schools in facilities, budgets, and overall wins. Now that they have gotten a smaller footprint you have to wonder if any of them would want to leave. Especially if it takes nearly a decade to reclassify and become playoff eligible.

Other than that, the West Texas group likes to play each other. Geographically and culturally Canyon, Abilene, San Angelo, and Wichita Falls fit together. Whenever this topic is brought up, people from these four schools quickly shoot it down. Their like brothers who love playing for bragging rights. They have little interest in the playing the Louisiana schools.

West Texas - Their football rebirth in 2005 has made them a jewel within the conference. They have a bigger stadium than most of the Southland and they tend to be finish in the top-5 nationally for attendance. They have committed to an increase in athletic fees and have plans for new athletic facilities. The thing that keeps them out of the SLC is their distance from the rest of the league. They are located just outside of Amarillo in the Texas panhandle. Huntsville is 550 miles away and Hammond is 900.

Abilene Christian- Strong Football, Track/Field, and other sports. Small enrollment, still a long drive from the current SLC footprint

Tarleton- Several deep NCAA basketball appearances, solid football program. Located 1 hour southwest of Dallas-Fort Worth. They were on the radar after the last expansion. They have spent the last few years improving the campus and a ten year master plan which includes a new arena, a pair of diamonds, tennis facility, and stadium renovations. That being said, a new president has come in and rumor has it that he is less interested moving to FCS.

Texas A&M-Kingsville (Formerly Texas A&I) - Great football tradition. SLC size stadium, and former rival to the Texas SLC schools. Geographically they are a better fit for the SLC (located 40 minutes south of Corpus). The budget has proved to be a problem, and the Javelinas have been reluctant to move up.

TAM-Commerce (Former East Texas State) - 1 hour east of Dallas. Geographically they are the best fit, and could be fine rivals for SHSU and SFA. Their enrollment is somewhere over 10 or 11,000 students. Maybe they are ready.

Incarnate Word- Is playing their first season in the Lone Star Conference. They were looking at the SLC as a last resort (if the LSC bid did not come). It would be a smart move if the SLC wants to stay in San Antonio. Their facilities would need to be improved.

Texas Woman's University - In Denton (just north of DFW) may be looking for a new home. Maybe the LSC tries to make a manditory football rule or TWU takes the opportunity to jump with the recent changes to the league. 14,000 students.

I just don't see Angelo State, Eastern New Mexico, and Midwestern State moving up at this point.

If the Louisiana schools are in trouble, could we see them trying to cut costs and leaving the league? If so, would the SLC look at bringing in a group of LSC schools like WT, ACU, TSU, and TAMK?

TBirdz

September 29th, 2010, 09:42 PM

mikebigg

September 30th, 2010, 12:18 AM

Seems that the Southland isn't really interested in Prairie View...

lionsrking2

September 30th, 2010, 01:44 AM

This article hints that there has possibly been some discussion between SUU and the Southland. (towards the bottom of the article...)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2010-09-23-2365768434_x.htm

No offense to Southern Utah, but I have hard time believing the SLC has any interest...it's simply too far away, and would guarantee a plane flight every other year for all of our members...with budgets the way they are now, we're not flying anywhere unless we're getting a guarantee.

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 06:14 AM

Southern Utah..

Southern Utah head coach Ed Lamb sounded upbeat when asked about the Great West shake-up. He said the Big Sky and Southland Conference are two possibilities.

Wonder what the SLC schools think of having the Thunderbirds as an affiliate member for football. Would most of the SLC schools think to themselves that they typically take a flight every year and by playing SUU every other year, they'd schedule accordingly where they'd take an OOC flight in years when they play SUU at home?

I have no problem bringing SUU in as an affiliate member based on that.

msusig

September 30th, 2010, 09:03 AM

Southern Utah..

Wonder what the SLC schools think of having the Thunderbirds as an affiliate member for football. Would most of the SLC schools think to themselves that they typically take a flight every year and by playing SUU every other year, they'd schedule accordingly where they'd take an OOC flight in years when they play SUU at home?

I have no problem bringing SUU in as an affiliate member based on that.

I would rather take West Texas A&M than SUU. SUU is just too far away. The SLC should expand into either West or North Texas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Alabama, or another Arkansas university. Let SUU go to another conference like the Big Sky or go independent.

3rd Coast Tiger

September 30th, 2010, 12:41 PM

Seems that the Southland isn't really interested in Prairie View...

With Texas State and UTSA looking to into a bigger house, the SWAC should pick up Sam and SFA.

Retro

September 30th, 2010, 12:53 PM

SLC has a rule in place that you have to be a full member including all sports to be accepted, thus why UTSA is gone likely... That, plus if you consider the other sports, too costly to go to SUU for lesser sports... Not going to happen.

The SLC shouldn't add any schools, especially lower div ones, unless they already have a good foundation in academics and athletics, including a strong financial record and decent attendance record in football or other sports if bigger than football. The SLC will remain stagnate if it only looks at lesser schools or divisions to stay afloat.. I'd rather merge with another conference or go FBS and combine with a sun belt / conf usa type to grow reasonably.

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 01:03 PM

Write-up by Matt Peloquin of College Sports Info regarding the changes in the Southland that may need to be explored...

http://news.collegesportsinfo.com/2010/09/southland-conference-expansiontime-to.html

Expansion candidates include UALR, Oral Roberts, HBU, UTPA, Delta State, Tarleton State, North Alabama, Abilene Christian, West Texas A&M, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Midwestern State, Jacksonville State, Southern Utah (football)

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 01:08 PM

SLC has a rule in place that you have to be a full member including all sports to be accepted, thus why UTSA is gone likely... That, plus if you consider the other sports, too costly to go to SUU for lesser sports... Not going to happen.

If the SLC really wants to get up to nine football schools without going to Division II - Southern Utah is an option. I understand the issue with affiliate membership, but it may be worth it in the minds of some of the power brokers.

The SLC shouldn't add any schools, especially lower div ones, unless they already have a good foundation in academics and athletics, including a strong financial record and decent attendance record in football or other sports if bigger than football. The SLC will remain stagnate if it only looks at lesser schools or divisions to stay afloat.. I'd rather merge with another conference or go FBS and combine with a sun belt / conf usa type to grow reasonably.

The SLC may not have a choice based on some of the things happening in Louisiana with the financial implications. A few schools in the SLC are barely holding on to the back of the bus and with the 35 percent cuts coming, may have to be let loose to choose another direction, whether it the Div II Gulf South or following the path of Centenary, New Orleans down to non-scholarship play.

Retro

September 30th, 2010, 01:32 PM

They do have a choice and bringing in lower div teams isn't going to solve finiancal problems. They'd better look at a long term solution and increase competition levels to draw fan interest.. Plus, i'd rather the SLC lose the AQ than save it by bringing in what is basically no-name teams to most fans that will not create anymore interest. It's time for the SLC and Burnett to swallow their pride and consider some more profitable moves while maintaining quality competition... If it means a new conf, FBS or no SLC, so be it, but pulling in D-II and lower level SWAC teams ain't gonna help.

msusig

September 30th, 2010, 01:44 PM

3rd Coast Tiger

September 30th, 2010, 01:48 PM

centexguy

September 30th, 2010, 02:04 PM

I just read an article from bleacherreport.com "Building a Better WAC: Stabilizing the WAC Long Term Using FCS Upgrades" that puts UTSA, Texas State, Lamar, and Sam Houston as full members into the WAC. Plus UTA & TAMU-CC as non-football members. If that happens, I seriously think McNeese should start looking to move up too.

Now I'm reading the Big East is considering adding TCU. This is getting crazy.

I predict in 5 years the WAC will be the "new southwest conference" and wouldn't be surprised if a few more SLC schools joined the party. I think we are beginning to see the end of the SLC as we know it.

Retro

September 30th, 2010, 02:45 PM

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 03:01 PM

That's why it's not a good fit, the swac and most of it's teams are paralyzed by it's past.

I'd be interested to see how well an HBCU could do a PWC conference. Tennessee State has done pretty well for themselves in quite a few sports. Texas is a different beast with the SLC schools being in a much different situation than the OVC schools. Not sure how much geography plays into it, but the SWAC schools have not been as competitive against their regional counterparts as the MEAC schools have against theirs.

3rd Coast Tiger

September 30th, 2010, 03:02 PM

That's why it's not a good fit, the swac and most of it's teams are paralyzed by it's past.

You are looking at this from a different perspective than what I am conveying...

I'm not saying we have been and will always be a conference made up only of HBCUs; what I'm saying is we've seen the Great Depression, World Wars, the Vietnam Conflict, Oil Crisis, Iran Contra Affairs, Desert Storm, you name it but we do not make movements due to a year or two of economic turbulence.

You mentioned something to the effect that a "low level SWAC programs is not what the SLC needs" so in essence would a "high level" SWAC program fit better? Apparently not since you said we are paralyzed with our past. Which one is it?

3rd Coast Tiger

September 30th, 2010, 03:05 PM

I'd be interested to see how well an HBCU could do a PWC conference. Tennessee State has done pretty well for themselves in quite a few sports. Texas is a different beast with the SLC schools being in a much different situation than the OVC schools. Not sure how much geography plays into it, but the SWAC schools have not been as competitive against their regional counterparts as the MEAC schools have against theirs.

The difference between the SLC and SWAC are the skill set of the defensive/offensive linemen as well as how coaches can make adjustments. Nothing to do with a budget, a band, fans sitting in their seats or standing around the concourse.

darell1976

September 30th, 2010, 03:05 PM

If the SLC really wants to get up to nine football schools without going to Division II - Southern Utah is an option. I understand the issue with affiliate membership, but it may be worth it in the minds of some of the power brokers.

The SLC may not have a choice based on some of the things happening in Louisiana with the financial implications. A few schools in the SLC are barely holding on to the back of the bus and with the 35 percent cuts coming, may have to be let loose to choose another direction, whether it the Div II Gulf South or following the path of Centenary, New Orleans down to non-scholarship play.

If UND is picked to join the Big Sky SUU could be a very attractive choice since they and South Dakota will be without a home, but if SUU goes to the Big Sky maybe UND and USD could look at the SLC for a home unless the MVFC calls them.

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 03:08 PM

The difference between the SLC and SWAC are the skill set of the defensive/offensive linemen as well as how coaches can make adjustments. Nothing to do with a budget, a band, fans sitting in their seats or standing around the concourse.

In sports not called football - there are budget differences.

I have a hard time believing that many of the SWAC schools fund their baseball, softball, tennis, soccer and volleyball programs at the same level as that of the SLC schools. There are even funding disparities in the SLC as for example, Nicholls does not fund their sports at the same level with coaches needing to raise money on an annual basis to get to that number (or close to it).

When you have schools with budgets under $6M in the SWAC or in the case of Valley, $3.3M and schools in the SLC who have budgets of $10-20M, budget very much comes into play... especially outside of the bell cow that is football.

If UND is picked to join the Big Sky SUU could be a very attractive choice since they and South Dakota will be without a home, but if SUU goes to the Big Sky maybe UND and USD could look at the SLC for a home unless the MVFC calls them.

I'm sure both schools would reach out to the SLC...

Just do not see the SLC taking two of them because schools would probably prefer to limit flights to once a year and if you have a flight in-conference each year, you are going to make it tough to schedule the OOC games, when buses are needed.

lionsrking2

September 30th, 2010, 03:13 PM

If UND is picked to join the Big Sky SUU could be a very attractive choice since they and South Dakota will be without a home, but if SUU goes to the Big Sky maybe UND and USD could look at the SLC for a home unless the MVFC calls them.

If the Southland were to add a school, or schools, well outside the footprint, which would require plane flights for current members, I'd rather add a UND or USD than Southern Utah.

Retro

September 30th, 2010, 03:49 PM

You are looking at this from a different perspective than what I am conveying...

I'm not saying we have been and will always be a conference made up only of HBCUs; what I'm saying is we've seen the Great Depression, World Wars, the Vietnam Conflict, Oil Crisis, Iran Contra Affairs, Desert Storm, you name it but we do not make movements due to a year or two of economic turbulence.

You mentioned something to the effect that a "low level SWAC programs is not what the SLC needs" so in essence would a "high level" SWAC program fit better? Apparently not since you said we are paralyzed with our past. Which one is it?

Outside of Louisiana Teams like Grambling and Southern and maybe Jackson state because of it's market, the rest of swac doesn't have the support at home or road to make a positive difference in the SLC in any sport financially... Even with those teams, once the newness wears off, how long with their fans come out since it's not a rare event anymore?

As far as your past, the most of the swac teams hold on with a death grip to their traditonal games and rivalries, which has hampered your ability to not only schedule more OOC games, but limit your possibilities to put a team in the playoffs each year for exposure, regardless of the financial gain in the playoffs vs another game be it the bayou classic or other post-season venture... For the SLC teams and most other FCS teams, the players and coaches want to win a championship at the national level as that is what we play for. That is what you as a player, coach, fan, alumni will remember, not how much you got paid to be in the state fair classic or whatever.. That's not to say those things can't still happen..

Clearly, the SWAC's goals are to maintain itself in it's current form and not improve the product on the field on the national scene so much as making money (which is important), but the ultimate goal of a football program or any sport is to be the best you can be againest your peers at your level, not just your conference...

Today's economic picture is much different that year's past and especially wars you mentioned because it's now a global economy the U.S. battles againest and the way schools are funding will never go back to the way it was before.. More schools will likely be privately funded with endowments and boosters down the road than with any state funding and only the well organized will survive... In about 5 years, i predict no state funding for athletics in Louisiana and likely the same in many other states.

TexasTerror

September 30th, 2010, 06:22 PM

SLC Commish Burnett on expansion...

On where the Southland Conference goes without Texas State and UTSA: "There are a ton of options, one of which is to stay where we are with a 10-member conference with eight playing football. Losing these two members doesn't put our conference into survival mode. It puts us into a mode where we can enhance our conference any number of ways, whether it be expansion or staying put. We don't ever want to lose anybody, but we've had a lot of membership change in our history and always adapt to it."

http://smdrcatscradle.blogspot.com/2010/09/college-athletics-conversation-with.html

kperk014

September 30th, 2010, 06:27 PM

Southern Utah.

Isn't that where Tysson Poots plays?

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 07:26 AM

Don't want HBU. Independent and no football, plus no track record of success at the Div I level... only private school that I am open to in the region is Oral Roberts.

"If we were to lose two members, (we could be) a 10-member conference with eight of those members playing football," Burnett said. "Or we could perhaps look outside of our conference to see if there's anyone out there who might enhance our membership moving forward.

"By no means of losing two members would we be in a panic mode where we rush to do something for the sake of doing it."

Houston Baptist is one program that could eventually find itself on the SLC's radar. The Huskies, a non-football program, are in their final year of their four-year probationary period for attainting full Division I status since returning to the NCAA after a 17-year stint in the NAIA.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/7230283.html

JaxSinfonian

October 4th, 2010, 08:10 AM

How about West Alabama? Currently #15 in D2, finished #19 last year. Games carried on television on WTOK and ESPN Radio 104.9. Excellent baseball program as well. It isn't in Texas, which is over-crowded as it is, and adds Alabama to the SLC footprint.

Would have to bridge Alabama to Louisiana with Mississippi, I'd think.

Expansion candidates include UALR, Oral Roberts, HBU, UTPA, Delta State, Tarleton State, North Alabama, Abilene Christian, West Texas A&M, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Midwestern State, Jacksonville State, Southern Utah (football)

It's fascinating to see the Southland-Alabama talk in this thread. I wonder how many of you know your pre-2003 Southland Conference history? I only mention this because none of you have, though you may very well be aware of it (It amuses me that the author of the article TT linked to appeared not to know any of it). What used to be called the Southland Football League included Troy until they moved to I-A in 2001 and Jacksonville State until the move to the OVC in 2003. Both teams were football-only members, with other sports competing in the Atlantic Sun. There was no "Mississippi bridge," as TT termed it, and the setup proved to be pretty awkward. Travel costs were killing Jax State, and it didn't help that we were competing in a pretty tough conference with the worst coaching staff in the program's history and a budget that hadn't changed much since the move from DII.

A move up for West Alabama is out of the question for now, I think. That school faces big financial challenges, as does that region of the state (yes, even more than the rest of Alabama). Meanwhile, I don't think North Alabama will be looking west. It looks pretty clear they'll be moving up, but I think the school and community are pretty concerned about cost. Geographically, they are ideally suited for the OVC, and I'll bet the OVC is more than happy to take them. For as long as Jax State is in the league, both schools would love to have a traditional rival back on the schedule.

As for Jax State going back to the Southland, forget it. Our administration wants all sports in one conference, and even if we don't go to FBS there's no way that conference will be the Southland unless its footprint somehow changes significantly. I wish the Southland and its teams well, but I don't think their future lies in Alabama.

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 08:24 AM

What used to be called the Southland Football League included Troy until they moved to I-A in 2001 and Jacksonville State until the move to the OVC in 2003. Both teams were football-only members, with other sports competing in the Atlantic Sun. There was no "Mississippi bridge," as TT termed it, and the setup proved to be pretty awkward. Travel costs were killing Jax State, and it didn't help that we were competing in a pretty tough conference with the worst coaching staff in the program's history and a budget that hadn't changed much since the move from DII.

Those were affiliate members and not all sport members. Much of us are aware of the history, but the SLC has changed its by-laws where affiliate members are out. Just do not see there being any Alabama members in for all sports.

Troy kicked too much tail in our conference anyway. Don't want anyone from Alabama doing so again! ;)

mikebigg

October 4th, 2010, 09:36 AM

Retro....

You can be rest assured that a low level, mid level, high level program from the SWAC will NOT be joining the SLC.

The SWAC has been existing since 1920. We have seen the glory days; we have seen the not so glory days and will continue to press onward.

As we've always done...

Personally, I think the SWAC needs to gear our attention to becoming an FBS conference. I can say that now (as opposed to a few months ago) since everyone else is talking FBS. Question: Will the new "FBS" conferences seek to retain the playoff system?

mikebigg

October 4th, 2010, 09:38 AM

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 11:09 AM

Personally, I think the SWAC needs to gear our attention to becoming an FBS conference. I can say that now (as opposed to a few months ago) since everyone else is talking FBS. Question: Will the new "FBS" conferences seek to retain the playoff system?

How does a league with the lowest budgets of any football conference at the Division I level make the move from FCS to FBS? The schools in the SWAC would either need to come up with increased enrollment and/or increased student fees and/or some major corporate support.

Your schools in some cases - especially in light of cuts at Grambling and Southern - would need to add female sports. It helps that the SWAC schools do not fully fund all their sports now, but would need to do a little more funding to meet Title IX complacency.

mikebigg

October 4th, 2010, 11:49 AM

How does a league with the lowest budgets of any football conference at the Division I level make the move from FCS to FBS? The schools in the SWAC would either need to come up with increased enrollment and/or increased student fees and/or some major corporate support.

Your schools in some cases - especially in light of cuts at Grambling and Southern - would need to add female sports. It helps that the SWAC schools do not fully fund all their sports now, but would need to do a little more funding to meet Title IX complacency.

It's not yours to worry about "how"... we got this.

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 12:12 PM

It's not yours to worry about "how"... we got this.

It would be very puzzling for any one in the country if the SWAC were to elevate to FBS. The most poorly funded athletic departments in the country, skipping above many others to reach the 'zenith' of college football?

Athletics is not all about football. Your football program could conceivably be FBS while your other programs could still mirror their legitimate Div II/NAIA existence (as Division I in name only based on results, history of success, etc).

3rd Coast Tiger

October 4th, 2010, 12:33 PM

The most poorly funded athletic departments in the country, skipping above many others to reach the 'zenith' of college football?

I"m not saying that I am for or against moving the SWAC to FBS classification but I would like a simple "yes" or "no" answer without a "but" or "however" please... Has Louisiana-Monroe, Alabama-Birmingham reached the "zenith" of college football?

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 12:50 PM

I"m not saying that I am for or against moving the SWAC to FBS classification but I would like a simple "yes" or "no" answer without a "but" or "however" please... Has Louisiana-Monroe, Alabama-Birmingham reached the "zenith" of college football?

Those programs compete at the FBS level, considered the 'zenith' or 'golden egg' of college football. Each has their moments, though are considered also-rans for all intensive purposes, just like I would say the SWAC is at the FCS level...

ULM may be a possible SLC add-on. Their budget is not great by FBS standards and is only lowering. Can't compete in much of their offerings...

3rd Coast Tiger

October 4th, 2010, 12:54 PM

Those programs compete at the FBS level, considered the 'zenith' or 'golden egg' of college football. Each has their moments, though are considered also-rans for all intensive purposes, just like I would say the SWAC is at the FCS level...

ULM may be a possible SLC add-on. Their budget is not great by FBS standards and is only lowering. Can't compete in much of their offerings...

Can't follow directions... xnonono2x

Sec310

October 4th, 2010, 01:35 PM

Those were affiliate members and not all sport members. Much of us are aware of the history, but the SLC has changed its by-laws where affiliate members are out. Just do not see there being any Alabama members in for all sports.

Troy kicked too much tail in our conference anyway. Don't want anyone from Alabama doing so again! ;)

But the point is, the SLC changed their by-laws once before, they of course could change the by-laws again. I never thought the Big Sky would allow affiliate members, but they added two members.

If Montana goes to the WAC, Southern Utah should be a slam dunk into the Big Sky. So the SLC won't have to worry about traveling to SUU.

Of the 2, I believe it's 2, SLC members who do not have football, are any of them seriously talking about adding football?

TexasTerror

October 4th, 2010, 01:47 PM

But the point is, the SLC changed their by-laws once before, they of course could change the by-laws again. I never thought the Big Sky would allow affiliate members, but they added two members.

Same goes for any league...

Of the 2, I believe it's 2, SLC members who do not have football, are any of them seriously talking about adding football?

TAMU-CC and UT-Arlington are not discussing football. I'm surprised that UT-Arlington has not brought it up again, but that's the case...

TexasTerror

October 7th, 2010, 07:32 PM

Conversation on the McNeese board about their future and whether or not they stick around...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/geauxcowboys/messages/?msg=11601.1

Sec310

October 8th, 2010, 04:11 AM

Same goes for any league...

..

That's the point. Since any conference can change their by-laws, maybe the SLC, changes their by-laws and allows for football only membership or all sports with no football, membership.

TexasTerror

October 8th, 2010, 07:36 AM

That's the point. Since any conference can change their by-laws, maybe the SLC, changes their by-laws and allows for football only membership or all sports with no football, membership.

I do not think the SLC would allow any current or new member to participate in all sports with the exception of their football program. It was a problem when ULM was in the league and the members came together to prevent UTSA from being able to do something similar.

Sec310

October 8th, 2010, 01:27 PM

I do not think the SLC would allow any current or new member to participate in all sports with the exception of their football program. It was a problem when ULM was in the league and the members came together to prevent UTSA from being able to do something similar.

Thanks for missing the point, again. Who cares what happened with ULM, that's almost ancient history. The changing face of college conferences, may dicate the SLC changes it's by laws.

TexasTerror

October 8th, 2010, 01:43 PM

Thanks for missing the point, again. Who cares what happened with ULM, that's almost ancient history. The changing face of college conferences, may dicate the SLC changes it's by laws.

I understand what you are saying, that by-laws can be changed - but the 'power brokers' in the league are adamantly against this happening. They just changed the by-law and they would need to be REALLY desperate (see the WAC) to make something like that happen.

ULM may be ancient history, but the rule change ahead of UTSA duplicating ULM's effort is not.

Panther88

October 8th, 2010, 07:48 PM

http://www.pvamu.edu/images/Announcements/Athletics/PV_birdseye_view.jpg

This will be the hotly discussed topic this upcoming week. A&M Board of Reg are 100% behind it. We're pushing dirt Spr'12. :)

BTW...

"That being said, as I think we’ve all seen in recent months, change can come at a moment’s notice. Our presidents (SLC COP) will continue to act in the best interest of the Southland, and we’ll have to wait and see what the coming months and years hold for our league and the rest of Division I."

El Gato

October 8th, 2010, 07:50 PM

They just changed the by-law and they would need to be REALLY desperate (see the WAC) to make something like that happen.

xhurrayx
Man, if I could just see your facial expression when you wrote this. A smirk and I'm sure a tone of sarcasm in your voice as well. Maybe an eye roll. Really there was no need to add the bolded words, but any little shot you can take at those of us moving up you gleefully jump at the opportunity.

And you wonder why nobody likes you.

Nice looking stadium there Panthers.

Panther88

October 8th, 2010, 08:19 PM

Nice looking stadium there Panthers.

Over 8 yrs in the making. We completed (past tense 2009) our soil.... let me shut up. :) Too many eyes in here. :)

Thanks for the well wishes. If we had a 15K+ enrollment like you guys, we'd have done this quite a while ago.

SFA 71

October 8th, 2010, 11:08 PM

http://www.pvamu.edu/images/Announcements/Athletics/PV_birdseye_view.jpg
BTW...

It's pretty but I don't think I want to sit in the top deck down at the end on the left side, those supports look awfully far apart. Maybe it's just the rendering?

txst80

October 9th, 2010, 01:27 AM

That is a great looking stadium PV fans. If anybody needs a new stadium its prairie view. Blackshear is one terrible stadium from what I hear, never been there though.

El Gato

October 9th, 2010, 09:17 AM

TexasTerror

October 9th, 2010, 09:39 AM

Why don't we ever schedule these guys, they travel well right? Or any other SWAC team besides Texas Southern?

Which by the way, what happened with that again, TSU? I mean why couldn't we schedule them anymore?

SWAC teams only have two out of conference opportunities due to the nine-game mandate.

TSU had two 'guarantee' situations - game at UConn and what was originally a 'Classic' against Tuskegee, that was later called off and moved to Mobile. They get far greater 'returns' from such games than being bought to play at TXST.

When TSU gets their own football stadium and a much better revenue generator at that, they'll more likely be more open to home-and-home with other programs, though - perhaps not.

PVAMU had SHSU on the slate a few years ago before bailing on us without forewarning. In fact, SHSU admin learned from a message board post of the PVAMU schedule by yours truly questioning what was going on. SHSU called PVAMU and never heard back. Lame! Not sure if SHSU got anything back from the Panthers bailing on the contract...

El Gato

October 9th, 2010, 10:33 AM

SWAC teams only have two out of conference opportunities due to the nine-game mandate.

TSU had two 'guarantee' situations - game at UConn and what was originally a 'Classic' against Tuskegee, that was later called off and moved to Mobile. They get far greater 'returns' from such games than being bought to play at TXST.

When TSU gets their own football stadium and a much better revenue generator at that, they'll more likely be more open to home-and-home with other programs, though - perhaps not.

PVAMU had SHSU on the slate a few years ago before bailing on us without forewarning. In fact, SHSU admin learned from a message board post of the PVAMU schedule by yours truly questioning what was going on. SHSU called PVAMU and never heard back. Lame! Not sure if SHSU got anything back from the Panthers bailing on the contract...

ok. I remeber that PVA&M thing with SHSU. I guess it wouldn't be wise to schedule a game then if there is a possibility they pull out. Was SHSU ever able to find a replacement on the schedule?

TexasTerror

October 9th, 2010, 10:36 AM

ok. I remeber that PVA&M thing with SHSU. I guess it wouldn't be wise to schedule a game then if there is a possibility they pull out. Was SHSU ever able to find a replacement on the schedule?

We added a sub-Div I team.

Our AD has said that moving forward, we will not schedule non-Div I teams. He actually said that prior to PVAMU backing out on us. So far, so good. We had three FCS OOC opponents (Gardner-Webb, Western Illinois and Lamar) plus an FBS (Baylor).

Next year, we have an FBS game and a home game against Western Illinois. Have not announced additional OOC game with the eight SLC games (four home, three away, one neutral).

katstrapper

October 9th, 2010, 10:51 AM

Seems that the Southland isn't really interested in Prairie View...

I wouldnt be interested either. I dont think they would be a good fit for Southland. Give me W. Texas A&M, A&M-Kingsville, Angelo State, Tarleton State or any school from the LSC for that matter. The LSC has 4 teams in the Top 10 in DII football right now. (#4 Abilene Christian, #7 W. Tx A&M, #8 Midwestern Univ, #10 Tx A&M-Kingsville). This is where I would be looking for expansion, THE LONE STAR CONFERENCE.

Panther88

October 9th, 2010, 11:15 AM

Why don't we ever schedule these guys, they travel well right? Or any other SWAC team besides Texas Southern?

Which by the way, what happened with that again, TSU? I mean why couldn't we schedule them anymore?

$$$$$$$ from FBSers lately. :) That's the bottomline. And that's why we kicked SHSU to the curb after they thought they were running the show on what athletic venue our home game should've been in for our end of the "away" bargain regarding the home-away-home deal.

SHSU left an outty for the contract due to hurricane Rita, we took it, and easily and eagerly replaced them w/ FBS New Mexico State and haven't looked @ them since, and from all indications, we're not interested in them because they *quote* "bring nothing to the table for us."[/b] *unquote* ;) lol teee-heee-heee-hee-hee. In all factuality, it would certainly be nice, in the short term, to schedule either of SFA, SHSU, or TxSt and the positivity of savings logistically, $$$$$, and regionally (distance) one cannot help but note. However, w/ the sudden interest in our desire to play @ least one FBS squad coupled w/ the current SWAC 9-game mandate, I think it would be hard to get either of the local 3 FCSers on the sched for a home-and-home deal. :)

I have my AD's # programmed and I speak w/ him and others associated w/ our fball program often. :) So, I'm not like others here spewing "internet geek rhetoric and geek opinion." :D xlolx

TexasTerror

October 10th, 2010, 12:54 PM

SFA AD...

People are asking me about the future of the Southland Conference, especially since both Texas State and UT-San Antonio have made formal presentations for membership with the Western Athletic Conference. The WAC is an FBS (Football Bowl Subdivision) conference and it's been no secret that both schools want to play football at that level.

I expect both to receive invitations and both to accept. Most of the conference membership expects this to happen, too. We just don't know when. Both schools think this is the best course for them and I wish them well.

As for SFA, I've pretty much stated our position on this blog earlier, which goes along with a statement from Big Sky Conference commissioner Doug Fullerton, who was quoted this week about schools wanting to move to FBS and the future of FCS football where we play.

http://sfajacks.cstv.com/ot/hill_blog.html

El Gato

October 10th, 2010, 03:10 PM

El Gato

October 10th, 2010, 03:11 PM

Both schools think this is the best course for them and I wish them well.

Is he saying that he doesn't think we are making the best move? Or am I reading to much into that?

houtexan

October 10th, 2010, 05:31 PM

Is he saying that he doesn't think we are making the best move? Or am I reading to much into that?
I think you're reading too much into it. I think he's simply saying that all schools in or out of the SLC will make their decisions on what is best for their university. Nothing more, nothing less.

TexasTerror

October 10th, 2010, 05:59 PM

Is he saying that he doesn't think we are making the best move? Or am I reading to much into that?

I do not think there's much to read out of it. It's been known for a long time that TXST and more recently, UTSA, want out of the SLC. Everyone in the league feels that this is their only option at this time (Burnett said so himself - about this being their only open door right now) and the forthcomign moves are no surprise to anyone - since they can not afford to pass up this opportunity.

I agree with that. There are some great teams in the LSC, but I thought none of those guys were intrested.

None of those other schools have come out and made it known they are interested in Division I per master plans (i.e. Tarleton State), etc. I'm still interested to know what the SLC schools think about adding a private school to their rivals.

TexasTerror

October 11th, 2010, 09:51 AM

More SWAC to SLC talk thanks to Deriso... check it out!

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?76213-Will-turmoil-in-the-Southland-Conference-lead-to-changes-in-the-SWAC&p=1566540#post1566540

houtexan

October 11th, 2010, 11:06 AM

. I'm still interested to know what the SLC schools think about adding a private school to their rivals.

I for one would still like to see HBU added and ACU. One football, one non-football. Brings in the Houston market. HBU has had some success in baseball and basketball while participating at the NAIA level prior to their current transition period back to Div I. I also think they are prime candidate for future expansion of football since they are a private instition. ACU is rocking in football this year and has better attendance than quite a few of the SLC schools. Not sure ACU is interested in transitioning to DIV I.

TexasTerror

October 11th, 2010, 11:09 AM

I for one would still like to see HBU added and ACU. One football, one non-football. Brings in the Houston market. HBU has had some success in baseball and basketball while participating at the NAIA level prior to their current transition period back to Div I. I also think they are prime candidate for future expansion of football since they are a private instition. ACU is rocking in football this year and has better attendance than quite a few of the SLC schools. Not sure ACU is interested in transitioning to DIV I.

HBU needs to upgrade their baseball and basketball facilities IMO. If they fast-track that, I do not have a problem bringing them in.

While football is not on their radar, it would be nice if they added M/W tennis. Losing UTSA also loses a men's tennis member and the SLC already has one affiliate there. Another women's tennis program would be great for the league...

Let's also remember that Abilene Christian is a FORMER Southland member!

houtexan

October 11th, 2010, 03:30 PM

Let's also remember that Abilene Christian is a FORMER Southland member!

When was ACU ever in the Southland? I thought they'd been in the Lone Star Conference continuously since 1973. Are you referring to the old LSC days when SHSU and SFA were in the LSC?

DG Cowboy

October 11th, 2010, 04:24 PM

I believe it was 1963-72. Then they went LSC.

I think if SUU wanted to go SLC, we should take them. They have been a willing schedule partner with many SLC teams when it was hard to get games.

LouiseBFree

October 11th, 2010, 05:13 PM

When was ACU ever in the Southland? I thought they'd been in the Lone Star Conference continuously since 1973. Are you referring to the old LSC days when SHSU and SFA were in the LSC?

ACU was a charter member of the Southland along with Lamar Tech.

TexasTerror

October 11th, 2010, 05:30 PM

Thanks to the two that provided the info on Abliene Christian's previous stay in the SLC...

I think if SUU wanted to go SLC, we should take them. They have been a willing schedule partner with many SLC teams when it was hard to get games.

Southern Utah as an affiliate member is something to think about. I wonder if the Big Sky is trying to limit their involvement to football-only or if they are trying to bring them in for all sports. Guess it depends on what happens in the next few weeks, months...

houtexan

October 11th, 2010, 06:05 PM

ACU was a charter member of the Southland along with Lamar Tech.
Thanks. I thought we were talking more recent (ie. when LU went on it's venture to the American South and Sun Belt Conferences then back to the Southland). I was aware of the original charter days (thus my 1973 comment). I just though TT was referring to something more recent that would actually have an impact today. Not sure how ACU being a charter member of the Southland has anything to do with them rejoining today if they wished to make the move from DII to DI.

TexasTerror

October 11th, 2010, 06:09 PM

Thanks. I thought we were talking more recent (ie. when LU went on it's venture to the American South and Sun Belt Conferences then back to the Southland). I was aware of the original charter days (thus my 1973 comment). I just though TT was referring to something more recent that would actually have an impact today. Not sure how ACU being a charter member of the Southland has anything to do with them rejoining today if they wished to make the move from DII to DI.

Would have to check the by-laws... but some conferences do have special things in place for charter members. Of course, that charter member may have had to stay in the conference.

Either way, don't think it matters - Abilene Christian would be an interesting addition, as would any private school.

TexasTerror

October 29th, 2010, 06:54 PM

With UTSA and TXST even closer to the door... time to re-visit this subject.

We need to be really smart, if we are going to expand. Need to bring in a school that has a healthy financial outlook, that is ready and willing to compete at the Division I level. It is critical to not bring in a school that will just be 'getting by' and will not add to the league's merit in football, basketball, baseball, etc.

superman7515

October 29th, 2010, 08:49 PM

Arkansas Tech seems like a pretty well-rounded program, they only compete in ten sports though. Basketball is 2x NAIA National Champions, now at Divsion 2 they are top 5 in Div 2 history winning %. Football has 19 conference championships, men's basketball has 12, baseball has 8, softball has 2 (only started play in 2003), golf has 11, and volleyball has 8. Thone Stadium, their football stadium, is under-sized but has HUGE room for expansion.

Arkansas Tech Athletics (http://athletics.atu.edu/fball.htm)

I like their basketball facility, Tucker Coliseum, although at 3500 seating it's a bit small for D1...

http://athletics.atu.edu/facilities/tucker-coliseum.jpg

Their football offices look better than ours at Delaware...

http://athletics.atu.edu/facilities/hull-building-1.jpg

txst80

October 29th, 2010, 09:21 PM

My mom went to Arkansas Tech...

TexasTerror

October 29th, 2010, 09:25 PM

The Wonder Boys and the Golden Sun?

I guess that'll get the SLC some attention, like the GameDay mention of the BLUE HOSE! :)

rexreed

October 29th, 2010, 11:14 PM

Abilene Christian & Prairie View should be considered as serious options for SLC Expansion.
I suspect it would be difficult to lure the last original member of the SWAC to the SLC.

TexasFan

October 30th, 2010, 12:19 PM

TexasTerror

October 30th, 2010, 12:41 PM

Why do you think the SLC has to add members to replace the WAC departees? A 10 team league is just fine and I don't think there is any reason to get into a hurry to add members for the sake of getting back to 12. Only three times in the 50 year history of the league have their been 12 members.

It will mean the end of divisional play and back to round robin formats especially in basketball but that is no problem. Having eight football schools is where the league is currently and Lamar coming in will replace TX State.

Moving up a Div II team is going to be tougher in the future since they will have to have a sponsoring Division I conference AND there will be a buy-in required, reportedly up to 1.3 million. Don't see too many DII's willing to make this commitment.

My biggest concern is football.

We need EVERY league team to have eight SLC games. Doing so will help with scheduling, because if we have four OOC games, look for some of the schools to play three FBS (or guarantee) games. That's not ideal in the league's efforts to get multiple teams into the playoffs.

Baseball may be a lesser issue. Would like to see home-and-home between pre-determined rivals to make up for one of the two series.

Sec310

October 31st, 2010, 12:46 AM

My biggest concern is football.

We need EVERY league team to have eight SLC games. Doing so will help with scheduling, because if we have four OOC games, look for some of the schools to play three FBS (or guarantee) games. That's not ideal in the league's efforts to get multiple teams into the playoffs.

Baseball may be a lesser issue. Would like to see home-and-home between pre-determined rivals to make up for one of the two series.

The SLC could have two very attractive, non football options, in UALR and ORU. (I'm betting the Sun Belt goes the CUSA route; requiring all schools to play football. Thus goodbye UALR.) But that would mean 12 teams, 4 without football and none of those four looking to add football, in the Southland.

But what football schools can the SLC add?

As we have seen, conferences need to be proactive. They can't sit still and assume schools will stay.

TexasTerror

October 31st, 2010, 07:44 AM

The SLC could have two very attractive, non football options, in UALR and ORU. (I'm betting the Sun Belt goes the CUSA route; requiring all schools to play football. Thus goodbye UALR.) But that would mean 12 teams, 4 without football and none of those four looking to add football, in the Southland.

But what football schools can the SLC add?

As we have seen, conferences need to be proactive. They can't sit still and assume schools will stay.

I'd love for the SLC to bring UALR and Oral Roberts in.

Oral Roberts is in a league where they have no 'easy' trips by any means. The Summit is going to have a more and more 'Midwest' slant and the league's instability is in question since USD is bailing (likely) and Southern Utah is gone (though guess you could replace with Utah Valley). We'll see what the Summit does.

UALR is only out if the SBC forces the issue - which does not seem like they will.

Football schools are only coming from Div II at this point...

UCABEARS75

November 1st, 2010, 10:14 AM

No brainer....ULM. (Ark St. and ULL would be nice also but their egos would not fit through the conference office door).

Sly Fox

November 1st, 2010, 10:39 AM

Perhaps my memory is slipping, but didn't the Islanders promise to begin the process of starting up football as part of their entrance into the SLC? Wouldn't that solve a great deal of problems? It would also be a big blow to the Javelinas' grip on South Texas talent.

DG Cowboy

November 1st, 2010, 11:13 AM

Certainly, Corpus could support a team at TAMU-CC. With Lamar ready, and possibly waiting for CC, I'd not be in a hurry to add. If Sam, SFA, and Lamar are a few years away from leaving as TX ST and UTSA are doing, I'm good with what we have. There is a history, as University of Corpus Christi had a program for years. Lamar has a very fine start-up model. Don't know about a stadium for Corpus, however.

Seat16Demon

November 1st, 2010, 11:42 AM

ULM and Ark St. won't "lower" themselves to return to the SLC. They both has forgotten where they came from and what made them great programs way back when.

Sly Fox

November 1st, 2010, 12:00 PM

Buc Stadium would be adequate for a startup in Corpus. But frankly the city could probably work with the university and CCISD to build a new facility. With all of the baseball facilities in that town, it is time that football saw some love. Obviously there is no room on the island. So I'm not sure where they could find prime spot for a stadium .... the bayfront doesn't seem to offer many options except on flood prone North Beach.

UCABEARS75

November 1st, 2010, 03:42 PM

ULM and Ark St. won't "lower" themselves to return to the SLC. They both has forgotten where they came from and what made them great programs way back when.

Oh trust me, I know. Just saying.....

Maybe ULM will come to their senses soon.

TexasTerror

November 5th, 2010, 11:39 AM

The SLC seems pretty stead-fast that they are in a pretty good position with the impending moves of UTSA and TXST...

I guess the question becomes whether or not to expand past 10 institutions... one Louisiana-based message board poster on their school's forum said that the two TX schools leaving puts more power in the hands of the La. schools.

They eluded to the SLC basketball tournament being moved east of the Sabine and a major hand in future expansion decisions. Not sure there will be many options and that having a major hand in expansion decisions, won't make a difference. The basketball tournament could come into play - but is anyone going to offer better than Katy?

rexreed

November 5th, 2010, 09:08 PM

They could move the bbal tourney back to shreveport, then absolutely NO ONE will go to any of the games just like before.

PurpleOut

November 5th, 2010, 11:00 PM

Nobody comes to the bball tourny anyway. The turnout we got last year is the best it will ever get. Sam has a big fan base in Houston and SFA showed up fairly well, although they have ALWAYS scheduled our Spring Break on tourny week/weekend. Alway drove me nuts.

I'm still a fan of the home games for the tourny. Watching every mid major championship game on ESPN is awesome for one reason, having it in front of a home crowd. Not 3,000 people at a neutral site. I had a blast traveling watching SFA in the tourny as a student. Just my opinion.

Sec310

November 7th, 2010, 01:11 AM

I'd love for the SLC to bring UALR and Oral Roberts in.

UALR is only out if the SBC forces the issue - which does not seem like they will.

Football schools are only coming from Div II at this point...

This is just my opinion. But I believe the SBC is working to get rid of UALR. They will soon be an all football conference. Look at what the SBC has done recently. They basically kicked out Denver, because they didn't sponsor enough SBC sports. It would be a stretch to see the SBC change their by-laws to include all members must have a FCS football team. It's not like the FCS football members will be outvoted.

BearsCountry

November 7th, 2010, 01:38 AM

I'm still a fan of the home games for the tourny. Watching every mid major championship game on ESPN is awesome for one reason, having it in front of a home crowd. Not 3,000 people at a neutral site. I had a blast traveling watching SFA in the tourny as a student. Just my opinion.

I prefer 20,000 at neutral site for the championship. :)

TexasTerror

November 7th, 2010, 07:09 AM

This is just my opinion. But I believe the SBC is working to get rid of UALR. They will soon be an all football conference. Look at what the SBC has done recently. They basically kicked out Denver, because they didn't sponsor enough SBC sports. It would be a stretch to see the SBC change their by-laws to include all members must have a FCS football team. It's not like the FCS football members will be outvoted.

Let's be honest... they were going to let Denver stick around until they found a league. They put in the rules to boot them - but they just were not going to budge on it, unless they had to for any reason. We'll see... would love if UALR came to the Southland. A perfect travel partner for UCA!

Catatonic

November 11th, 2010, 09:28 AM

I wouldnt be interested either. I dont think they would be a good fit for Southland. Give me W. Texas A&M, A&M-Kingsville, Angelo State, Tarleton State or any school from the LSC for that matter. The LSC has 4 teams in the Top 10 in DII football right now. (#4 Abilene Christian, #7 W. Tx A&M, #8 Midwestern Univ, #10 Tx A&M-Kingsville). This is where I would be looking for expansion, THE LONE STAR CONFERENCE.

FYI, Athletic Budgets for Lone Star Conference Members.

Abilene Christian 7.5 million
Incarnate Word 6.4 million
Tarleton St 5.4 million
TAMU-Commerce 4.6 million
West Texas A&M 4.6 million
TAMU-Kingsville 4.4 million
Angelo St 4.3 million
Eastern New Mexico 3.5 million
Midwestern St 3.3 million
Cameron 2 million

In terms of competitiveness....

Top tier teams in the LSC have been competitive vs Southland Conference teams, even with the substantial difference in scholarship athletes between d2 and FCS. The last FCS team Abilene Christian played was Texas State in 2007. Score ACU 45-Texas State 27. I believe Texas State was a middle of the conference team that year....not sure how ACU would have done against a top tier FCS team.

I cannot speak for other schools, but Abilene Christian supporters are mixed about the thought of moving to FCS. Cons: It would wreak havoc on traditional rivalries with other schools in West Texas (unless one or two rival schools moved with us); It would require funding additional scholarships in virtually every sport during a time of fiscal uncertainty; ACU is very competitive in D2 athletics and it is unclear how well we would do week-in-week-out against top-tier FCS competition; the financial problems of the Louisiana schools are cause for concern about the future stability of the Southland Conference. There is some concern that ACU could leave a stable conference to join a conference whose future is less certain. On the other hand: The ACU football coach and several influential alums relish the idea of stepping up in competition. There is a strong possibility that ACU will lose its football coach to a FCS program without a commitment from our administration to move up. We have a large endowment for a school of our size and a growing enrollment. A successful FCS program would increase interest in enrollment and help us continue to grow endowment through contributions from satisfied alums...

Whatever the outcome, these are interesting times for college athletics and the landscape will certainly change.

TexasTerror

November 12th, 2010, 12:20 PM

From the Corpus Christi Caller...

But Burnett added that expansion might not be on the table, even at the presidents’ confab in January.

“I would be surprised right now that we would do anything on expansion in January,” Burnett said. “That could change, but there might be some sentiment to move forward as 10-team conference. We won’t add members for the sake of adding members. There’s always a curiosity at all meetings as to who is out there for us.”

In a March interview with the Caller-Times, Burnett said, if the league were to expand, it would require football for new members.

If that holds, it eliminates potential candidates such as Texas-Pan American, which lost out on expansion in 2006 when A&M-Corpus Christi and Central Arkansas joined the Southland, as well Houston Baptist, which is avidly seeking Division I affiliation.

http://www.caller.com/news/2010/nov/11/utsa-texas-state-defect-from-southland/

Catatonic

November 16th, 2010, 05:53 PM

Abilene Christian to Discuss the future of Athletics. T

A friend just forwarded me this notice:

"This Friday, November 19, from 12:00-1:00 we will be having a Faculty Meeting for all faculty .... The purpose of the meeting will be to allow Jared Mosley, Director of Athletics, to make a presentation on the advantages and disadvantages of ACU's participation in NCAA Division 1, II (our current division), and III and to consider options for the future of ACU's athletic program. Jared's presentation will take about 25 minutes, and then there will be time for questions, with responses from Jared and President Schubert."

Several of the coaches have been lobbying for a move to FCS. I suspect their efforts have given this effort some traction.

TexasTerror

November 16th, 2010, 10:14 PM

I would take ACU over Houston Baptist or UT-Pan Am in a heartbeat!

Sec310

November 17th, 2010, 03:02 AM

TexasTerror

November 17th, 2010, 07:37 AM

This is all just posturing by the Southland. Unless you're the WAC, you can't look desperate searching for new members. Also, it is very early after the defections and the Southland hasn't been able to get together and work out a plan for possible future expansion. The Southland doesn't need members right after the two schools leave in 2012. They can afford to be selective.

I agree - the SLC is not in 'survival mode' like the WAC. No SLC institution is leaving for the next 3-5 years since Lamar, SHSU and SFA all have to get their houses in order before they look at a move to FBS.

The Houston Baptist fans seem to think because of the moratorium, they are a shoo-in. Why? We can be selective and we can deal with a school in transition because we're not forced to add anyone! And let's think here - the only non-football schools that would really get the SLC interested are Oral Roberts and UALR.

08LionBacker

November 17th, 2010, 12:56 PM

here's to betting that when the southland does add 2 schools they will have football. this way they protect themselves from future defections.

TexasTerror

November 17th, 2010, 02:56 PM

here's to betting that when the southland does add 2 schools they will have football. this way they protect themselves from future defections.

Would love to see that happen - just hope that the schools added are the right fit with at least one of them in Texas! :)

Catatonic

November 18th, 2010, 08:22 AM

I know in advance that this is a sensitive question. Please do not shoot the messenger.

All the talk in this thread has been about SLC expansion by inviting other FCS schools or D2 schools that want to move up. What about the reverse?

Given that several SLC schools are leaving to join the WAC and that other SLC schools are considering a move to the FBS level, is there any possibility of one or more of the remaining schools, many of whom have had their budgets slashed, moving down to a strong D2 conference such as the Gulf South or Lone Star? Just asking.....

TexasTerror

November 18th, 2010, 09:13 AM

Given that several SLC schools are leaving to join the WAC and that other SLC schools are considering a move to the FBS level, is there any possibility of one or more of the remaining schools, many of whom have had their budgets slashed, moving down to a strong D2 conference such as the Gulf South or Lone Star? Just asking.....

I am not sure what to expect from Div I schools moving to Div II from the SLC.

The issue is that there's more than enough money that can be made at the Div I level to substantiate not making the move down to Div II. If any schools are going to move down, it would be to the Div III level - since scholarships do cost a pretty penny and you can go on the super cheap. Outside of football, the scholarship differences between Div I and Div II are very minimal.

SHSU and Lamar are a few years from even looking at FBS... they've taken a peek, but they have quite a bit to do.

The thought that the SLC is less stable than the Lone Star Conference is a misconception, considering in the new LSC - there are less teams, with a few that would jump at the chance to move Div I, IMO.

Catatonic

November 18th, 2010, 09:40 AM

I am not sure what to expect from Div I schools moving to Div II from the SLC.

The issue is that there's more than enough money that can be made at the Div I level to substantiate not making the move down to Div II. If any schools are going to move down, it would be to the Div III level - since scholarships do cost a pretty penny and you can go on the super cheap. Outside of football, the scholarship differences between Div I and Div II are very minimal.

SHSU and Lamar are a few years from even looking at FBS... they've taken a peek, but they have quite a bit to do.

The thought that the SLC is less stable than the Lone Star Conference is a misconception, considering in the new LSC - there are less teams, with a few that would jump at the chance to move Div I, IMO.

Thanks for the information about SHSU and Lamar.

For the moment at least, the LSC is a stronger conference without the Oklahoma schools than with them. None of the Oklahoma schools funded scholarships up to the D2 limit, which created a huge imbalance in the league. There are nine remaining schools which offer football and the LSC would like to add one or two additional members but is in no hurry to do so.

Now,if you are right and several LSC schools jump at the opportunity to move to the SLC, the future of the LSC becomes much more cloudy. I think the schools most likely to consider a move are Texas A&M-Commerce and Incarnate Word. Per my earlier post, ACU might also look at this option. Tarelton has flirted with the idea but seems less inclined now than previously. Texas A&M Kingsville and WTAMU appear content. I doubt Midwestern has the money to even think about a move. I have no idea about Angelo State.

Another factor that could hurt the LSC is that Eastern New Mexico is rumored to be shopping for a less competitive D2 Conference. Their defection would create a problem for the remaining schools to complete a football schedule with OOC games.

TexasTerror

November 18th, 2010, 10:22 AM

Catatonic

November 18th, 2010, 10:42 AM

What's the status of Tarleton State and why would they be less inclined now to make the move to the Football Championship Subdivision? Thought they were the school that had expressed the greatest interest in making such a move...

All I know is what I have read on message boards, but for what it is worth....Tarleton has a new president who prefers to remain in D2 and the economic situation is not as good as a couple of years ago when Tarleton was making noises about moving up.

brocal

November 24th, 2010, 12:20 PM

Hearing some rumblings that Texas A&M-Commerce (formerly East Texas State) may have some interest in moving up to the SLC.

TexasTerror

November 24th, 2010, 02:09 PM

Hearing some rumblings that Texas A&M-Commerce (formerly East Texas State) may have some interest in moving up to the SLC.

I've heard them too - but they need to add the ball and bat sports!

chazg

November 24th, 2010, 05:14 PM

ACU i believe is looking at moving up.

Catatonic

November 25th, 2010, 05:34 AM

ACU i believe is looking at moving up.

Might be a slight overstatement to say ACU is committed to moving up but it is very accurate to say ACU is looking at moving up and leaning that direction.

The ACU president and AD met recently with faculty to discuss the challenges and opportunities of moving up, moving down, or remaining at the D2 level. The AD clearly favored moving up. He focused on three areas--academics, economics and athletics.

* Academics. NCAA minimum academic standards are higher for FCS than for D2.
* Economics. The average budget for the Southland Conference is manageable for ACU, with part of the additional cost offset by new streams of revenue (corporate sponsorships, the amounts paid by FBS schools for home games vs FCS opponents in basketball and football and so forth). He also emphasized that ACU's facilities meet or exceed facilities at many Southland Conference schools, so no upgrades will be necessary.
* Athletics. We offer the number of sports required by the Southland Conference. ACU has always had a dominant D2 track program and has been to the D2 playoffs in football for five consecutive years (The Wildcats are currently ranked second nationally). ACU has enjoyed some success vs FCS opponents in track and football. There is no reason to believe we remain competitive after moving up.

The board is scheduled to hear the same presentation soon.

The AD emphasized that the presentation was based on an awareness of the shifting landscape in college athletics and our desire to be prepared to make adjustments as they present themselves rather than an invitation to join the Southland or any other FCS conference at this time.

brocal

November 27th, 2010, 09:37 PM

I've heard them too - but they need to add the ball and bat sports!

Already done...Softball is currently playing club and will be fully funded and running next season (2012), and baseball is a year or so behind that.

smallcollegefbfan

November 27th, 2010, 09:45 PM

Texas A & M Kingsville, West Texas A & M, Midwestern State. Angelo State, Abilene Christian, Tarleton State, from the DII Lone Star
North Alabama, Delta State from DII
North Dakota, South Dakota & Southern Utah from FCS Great West

I can tell you right now that WTAMU, ACU, UNA, DSU, and Kingsville would be making a HUGE mistake if they move up. The reason I say that is because most of their top players every year are transfers who those schools would not take a chance on in D1 due to some huge baggage or their grades would not allow them to play in FCS. I could see the move up being tougher on them than it was on NDSU after they lost that loaded group of seniors their last year in transition. ACU has a great coach and so does WTAMU but if you look at their top players I would say 85 percent of them would not qualify in D1 or at least would be passed up if they move up because of the greater gamble at the D1 level.

UNA would probably be the biggest mistake. They take 25-50 transfers every year. Bowden is going to always be a playoff team every year while in D2 because he brings in so many D1 transfers but as they have done the last two years they don't go too deep in the playoffs because there is such a huge turnover and not enough time to build true team chemistry with them.

Don't mistake what I'm saying for talent because I can guarantee you that if you took the all-league team from ACU and WTAMU's league they would throttle just about every FCS team and give some FBS teams a run for their money. That Lone Star Conference is among the D2 leaders in putting players in the NFL and if you watch their games they have a lot of speed in that league. Their first year in FCS would be interesting because I could see them beating some high ranked FCS teams, if given the chance, in their first few years as they add scholarships and still have several of those transfers that were suppose to be in the SEC or Big 12. I can promise you guys they have talent in that league. There are probably 4 or 5 future draft picks in that conference right now and is a lot more than four or five current FCS leagues have at the moment.

TexasTerror

January 20th, 2011, 02:23 PM

Article re: Friday's meetings...

It isn't on any particular radar, but the Southland Conference is holding important meetings beginning Friday.

The SLC's university presidents will gather in Dallas to discuss several issues.

The one item that will get the most attention is expansion or conference realignment.

http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20110119/OPINION01/110119366?p=all&tc=pgall

Sly Fox

January 20th, 2011, 03:54 PM

You have to wonder how much leverage the league gas on A&M-CC since they already granted them admission. That 10-year window of a year ago sounds way too long today under current circumstances.

superman7515

January 22nd, 2011, 11:26 AM

Texas Terror, clear out some room in your inbox.

TexasTerror

January 22nd, 2011, 12:27 PM

Texas Terror, clear out some room in your inbox.

Done - apologize about that. ;)

TexasTerror

February 5th, 2011, 07:18 AM

Latest talk on different forums have both SHSU and Lamar accepting a WAC invite in the next two months... thoughts?

If SHSU and Lamar were to leave, the SLC would look like this...

Football: SFA, UCA, NWST, SLU, Nicholls, McNeese
All Sports: UT-Arlington, A&M-CC

That would be a bad situation for the conference, who could easily snatch up non-football Houston Baptist and UT-Pan American - but the issue is more related to football. They would need to add D2 programs - most likely - and there also is the possibility that the bottom falls out for some Louisiana schools.

slycat

February 5th, 2011, 01:43 PM

lionsrking2

February 5th, 2011, 09:19 PM

TexasTerror

February 6th, 2011, 08:07 AM

I just don't see SHSU going to the WAC. They did the feasibility and said no. I understand that if Lamar goes they are in a tough spot because then the two schools in their system are up. Plus the WAC is pretty desperate. But I've felt that Texas St was always on the edge of being able to support an FBS program and just don't see how SHSU could. They would have to do a lot of upgrades to the football stadium like Texas St did.

That's the issue. We do not want to go to the WAC, per the SHSU President. She has eyes elsewhere, for when we are ready to move up to FBS. Unfortuantely, we may not have a choice. We can not sit and watch as two other TSUS schools make the move to FBS and we sit lame duck.

Our budget will already exceed ULM, who is making FBS work - ailbeit struggling - and a few other FBS schools. I do not think it would take long to increase revenues in a manner that would surpass at least one, if not two or three of the current FBS cellar dwellers in the WAC (see La Tech, NMSU and Idaho).

Is there a push from students and alumni at SHSU for a move up like Texas St had?

TXST kept pushing and getting denied. It was only when the WAC got desperate did TXST, UTSA get fortunate enough to join a 'league of convienence'.

As for Lamar, they had talked about a move up from the start. Not sure they have the funds either but think they could do it because of how new the program is. I would hope they would expand their stadium because its pretty high schoolish like Texas Sts was.

I do not think Lamar has the consistent reccuring revenue. They say they have folks in the community to step up, but it needs to be endowed and banked on to be in the budget every year, instead of a one-time gift...

Sam Houston isn't going to the WAC a bit more than they are to the moon...the WAC might not exist by this time next year anyway.

You are right...

Of course, I can see a few schools going the 'opposite' direction before SHSU were to make the jump. With the heavy reliance on general fund support by Louisiana schools, the forthcoming budget cliff postponed by Jindal, could really raise problems for athletic departments in the state, who are already grossly underfunded and in some cases, presenting a clear inability to compete at the D1 level.

superman7515

February 6th, 2011, 08:54 AM

That would be a bad situation for the conference, who could easily snatch up non-football Houston Baptist and UT-Pan American - but the issue is more related to football. They would need to add D2 programs - most likely - and there also is the possibility that the bottom falls out for some Louisiana schools.

Where would they look in D2? They'd need to add schools, as obviously a 6 team football conference is very problematic for scheduling. But with the fee to move up to D1 going to over $1 million and the economy being what it is, how many D2 schools can really afford that to join an FCS league?

TexasTerror

February 6th, 2011, 10:28 AM

Where would they look in D2? They'd need to add schools, as obviously a 6 team football conference is very problematic for scheduling. But with the fee to move up to D1 going to over $1 million and the economy being what it is, how many D2 schools can really afford that to join an FCS league?

I am becoming more and more under the impression that there are minimal options in Div II...

North Alabama would look to the Southland, if the Ohio Valley did not work out. But, I do not think UNA leaves Div II at this time. The students are not necessarily feeling the urge to see their student fees go from $12 a semester to upwards of $150 a semester. Hard to do when so many are your non-traditional students having to keep jobs in line with going to school.

This is another reason that SHSU's hand may be forced. May be better to not be as competitive, but in a stable league. If Lamar and SHSU leave without any FCS or D2 football options readily available, the SLC is far from stable.

Sly Fox

February 7th, 2011, 09:39 AM

As a fan of a Big South school, I don't see why desperation is needed to find more football-playing members. Six teams offers up flexibility for out-of-conference paydays and keeping rivalries alive (it is hard to imagine the Battle of the Piney Woods going anywhere). Just put the heat on A&M-CC to get their program up & running and possibly add a "marriage of convenience" (a la Stony Brook to Big South) and the league will be fine. With an auto bid in place, you don't need a 9-game league slate.

Speaking of SFA, they have to be in a bit of panic right now at the possibility of being the last one standing of their traditional rivals in the SLC.

JoshUCA

February 7th, 2011, 12:42 PM

xrotatehx All of this speculation and what-if crap is giving me a headache.
So TT, if the SLC falls apart because SHSU AND Lamar leave, where does that leave UCA? We can't stay in a defunct conference and expect to remain competitive. We are more geographically compatible with the OVC, but competitively speaking I would hope we could get into the MVFC. Our men's soccer team is already an affiliate member of the MVC...not that that really matters.
Hopefully we won't have to worry about this for a long long time, but it always nice to think ahead! xnodx

TexasTerror

February 7th, 2011, 03:12 PM

xrotatehx All of this speculation and what-if crap is giving me a headache.

Me too, but fun to discuss!

So TT, if the SLC falls apart because SHSU AND Lamar leave, where does that leave UCA? We can't stay in a defunct conference and expect to remain competitive. We are more geographically compatible with the OVC, but competitively speaking I would hope we could get into the MVFC. Our men's soccer team is already an affiliate member of the MVC...not that that really matters. Hopefully we won't have to worry about this for a long long time, but it always nice to think ahead! xnodx

No telling! Perhaps UCA drops back down to Div II and runs all over those schools in the Arkansas, Oklahoma league! ;)

chrisattsu

February 8th, 2011, 12:58 PM

Me too, but fun to discuss!

No telling! Perhaps UCA drops back down to Div II and runs all over those schools in the Arkansas, Oklahoma league! ;)

The Suey-Sooner Conference
Arklahoma League

TexasTerror

March 31st, 2011, 06:18 PM

Abilene Christian has addressed Division I once more...

"Our stance on the Division I talks are exactly where they have been," Mosely said. "There's ongoing conversations, and we're taking a look at all options, but there's not been any decisions made or any projected decisions made, certainly no guarantees, as we go through this hiring process.

"There's just as much of a chance that we'll remain Division II forever. We've got to hire a coach where we're at right now, and I certainly feel coach McCasland gives us a great opportunity to quickly vault our program to the level we desire."

Unless ACU wanted to go Division I as an independent, the Wildcats must be invited into a Division I conference, and Mosely said no such offer has been made.

"There's been zero conversation with any conference or from any conference," he said.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/mar/30/abilene-christian-university-denies-any-move-to/

TexasTerror

April 12th, 2011, 05:33 PM

Was reading the HBU boards and they are under the impression that the Southland Conference has given them a list of things they need to accomplish in order to get an invitation.

The HBU fans really believe that their impression in the Houston market is a big deal for the league, which I contend gets much bigger attention from Sam Houston State, Stephen F. Austin and Lamar - all schools with large alumni bases in the city and of course, football - which is further bolstered by the addition of the Battle of the Piney Woods game in Reliant Stadium.

Thoughts?

I still think the emphasis needs to be on adding at least one football school before the SLC looks towards non-football. It may need two football schools if further changes were to occur...