Could NCAA Lacrosse Championship Format Work for FCS?

[Anovafan]

So I am watching the lacrosse tournament and would love to know how much the tournament makes for the NCAA and/or school participants. They have all of the playoff games on some form of TV, ESPNU and finals on ESPN. They have regional sites for the first two rounds, I think, and then the final 4 in a pro stadium. The finals in Baltimore got close to 40K fans one year. The stands have been pretty full for the first and second round games. Obviously the regional sites negate home field advantage, but a few sites happen to be host participants if they make the tournament like Princeton did.

So my question is, would this format work for FCS? I could easily see Montana or ASU hosting a double header and drawing really well.

[TexasTerror]

My two biggest questions...

1) How many facilities can handle a doubleheader? Namely from a field perspective, but this is open to interpretation.

2) Lacrosse is more of a 'regionalized' sport to begin with (let's be honest, it's mostly east of the Mississippi with those few schools in what - Colorado?). How do you successfully regionalize FCS football?

[NHwildEcat]

I agree with TT above, that the field may be an issue with a possible doubleheader. The way to stop that from being an issue would be to play on an unnatural surface. Then, you would have the issue of teams and locker rooms. So it would seem to be difficult as far as proper game play.

Plus, I don't think a lot of people would be too happy about losing the home field advantage they may receive currently. Teams that have amazing seasons have earned that home field.

The reason lacrosse benefits from their format is that they don't have to have teams travel on multiple weekends, as they can play days with back to back games. So that reason alone, makes it more fitting for their sport as opposed to FCS.

[UAalum72]

Lacrosse first round was on campus of eight seeds, keeping the home field for one round, then the quarterfinals are at two sites.

Locker rooms could be accomodated by playing a day-night DH (noon and 7 pm), but the championship would still have to be in its own week.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Here's the attendance figures and you'll see many 40K+ figures in the recent championships.

http://www.laxpower.com/common/NCAA-Attendance.php

While FCS can't have it's semi-finals and finals during one weekend like lacrosse, we could bundle the D-II and D-III championships into our one weekend. Part of what makes the Lacrosse event so successful is that it is a three day event with five games played. FCS could have a two day event with anywhere from two to four games played. You could have the D-II and D-III championship one day followed by the FCS championship game. You could add an all star game to make a doubleheader on day two. If D-II and D-III aren't interested, you could have the all star game and the championship game over two days. FWIW, I'm pretty sure an all-star game a few years ago with Ricky Santos, David Ball and Corey Graham playing probably would have got me to Chattanooga despite UNH not playing for the NC.

Personally, I think multiple games makes it easier for people not associated with the championship game participants to justify the expense, travel and time away from home. Others have have expressed that they want no association with the lower divisions, but that doesn't bother me. I'd enjoy watching their championship games, often watch them on TV and I think the D-I difference can be emphasized enough for our FCS game. Let's celebrate NCAA Football that crowns a champion on the field!

To me what's ironic about MLax is that they don't draw great numbers during the season. And look at Maryland, they played their first round game this year in their old football stadium with multiple large bare spots on the field rather than use their new stadium. But they've created an incredible "lacrosse celebration" weekend by bundling all their championship games. And yes, most lacrosse fans are in the Northeast, but no way are there more lacrosse fans than football fans even in the Northeast!!

For almost a decade now, the NCAA Frozen Four has been sold out in advance via a lottery like the basketball tournament has. It's held in large NHL venues and this year even went to a football stadium (Ford Field) and set an attendance record at 37K+ for the championship game. Look at those LAX figures for the past six years. And the only reason the numbers went down last year was people didn't like being out in the boondocks of Foxborough compared to being in Philly and Baltimore (public transportation, hotels within walking distance, restaurants and bars near by, easier access from the highways, etc.). There's a common thread to these two "niche" sports -- their championships are held in top level professional venues and they have developed a fan base that attends regardless of "their team" playing.

[Redbird Ray]

I like the home-field advantage that can come with an FCS playoff game. And in agreement with other points on regionality, FCS football has a broader geography than Lacrosse. The lacrosse format would provide too much unnecesary travel.

[Anovafan]

I certainly like the home field advantage, but I like filled stadiums and television revenue better. Maybe you could keep home field campus sites for the first round and then have regional sites in FCS hotbeds for the next round double-headers? A day night double header? I think the travel costs would be about the same as it is now and if you have sold out stadiums that would make up for the difference. It just seems like the NCAA is doing a better job figuring things out for lax than it does for FCS.

As a side note, NCAA BB and FBS bowls are played on neutral sites. I'm not sure about other sports, but I think NCAA baseball and softball also play most of their tournament on neutral sites.

As a final side note, man that Stony Brook stadium looked great on TV yesterday filled to capacity. What a perfect FCS stadium.

[Redbird Ray]

That Stony Brook stadium did look awesome yesterday. Perfect size for FCS, and if they ever move up, it will be a cool looking low-level FBS stadium as well. It seems like it will expand easily.

[UNH Fanboi]

The Lacrosse tournament does so well because it is the highest level of lacrosse played and therefore can draw in general lacrosse fans who aren't following a particular team. FCS is second tier, and December and January are filled with higher level football games for people to watch if they're just general football fans. People are blasted with football non-stop from August to February, and the FCS tournament is nothing special to most people. Lacrosse is hardly ever on TV, so if you are a lacrosse fan, watching it on TV is much more novel. Also, it's cold as **** in most of the country during December and January, which makes it a lot harder to put asses in the stands without a personal connection to the teams.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I certainly like the home field advantage, but I like filled stadiums and television revenue better. Maybe you could keep home field campus sites for the first round and then have regional sites in FCS hotbeds for the next round double-headers? A day night double header? I think the travel costs would be about the same as it is now and if you have sold out stadiums that would make up for the difference. It just seems like the NCAA is doing a better job figuring things out for lax than it does for FCS.

As a side note, NCAA BB and FBS bowls are played on neutral sites. I'm not sure about other sports, but I think NCAA baseball and softball also play most of their tournament on neutral sites.

As a final side note, man that Stony Brook stadium looked great on TV yesterday filled to capacity. What a perfect FCS stadium.

I didn't follow lacrosse much before they moved their championship to Baltimore in 2003. So, I don't know what the driving force was to migrate their championship game to an NFL Stadium. Pretty good attendance run for the prior ten years at Rutgers and Maryland, but not sold out football stadiums at either site. Turned out to be a great move by the NCAA. Also resulted in thousands and thousands of additional fans at the D-II and D-III championships. They not only created a money maker, but also an event that I think is now their second largest in revenue.

FWIW, I don't think it is unfair to question whether the NCAA is doing as much to promote their football championships as they do in ice hockey, lacrosse, baseball and softball. xtwocentsx

Pretty sure NCAA Baseball and Softball early rounds are played at one of the participating teams. Their final rounds are played at Omaha and Oklahoma City respectively IIRC.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The Lacrosse tournament does so well because it is the highest level of lacrosse played and therefore can draw in general lacrosse fans who aren't following a particular team. FCS is second tier, and December and January are filled with higher level football games for people to watch if they're just general football fans. People are blasted with football non-stop from August to February, and the FCS tournament is nothing special to most people. Lacrosse is hardly ever on TV, so if you are a lacrosse fan, watching it on TV is much more novel. Also, it's cold as **** in most of the country during December and January, which makes it a lot harder to put asses in the stands without a personal connection to the teams.


Still, aren't there only about 60 schools playing D-I Lacrosse? How many D-II and D-III schools play lacrosse? And it isn't like the majority of high schools in the Northeast play lacrosse either. They're doing one heck of a job of drawing general lacrosse fans from that cross section! But you know what, I've considered attending because it is an event in a major league venue in a big city. I still maintain that making our championship game an EVENT at a great location would enhance the FCS Championship game.

I guess you don't get ESPNU or CBS College Sports (the old CSTV) because every Saturday this Spring there were up to seven lacrosse games to watch. It seemed like ESPNU had a minimum of three games on every Saturday.

[danefan]

I certainly like the home field advantage, but I like filled stadiums and television revenue better. Maybe you could keep home field campus sites for the first round and then have regional sites in FCS hotbeds for the next round double-headers? A day night double header? I think the travel costs would be about the same as it is now and if you have sold out stadiums that would make up for the difference. It just seems like the NCAA is doing a better job figuring things out for lax than it does for FCS.

As a side note, NCAA BB and FBS bowls are played on neutral sites. I'm not sure about other sports, but I think NCAA baseball and softball also play most of their tournament on neutral sites.

As a final side note, man that Stony Brook stadium looked great on TV yesterday filled to capacity. What a perfect FCS stadium.

Agreed on all accounts.

Even the SBU one. xbawlingx

[andy7171]

So I am watching the lacrosse tournament and would love to know how much the tournament makes for the NCAA and/or school participants. They have all of the playoff games on some form of TV, ESPNU and finals on ESPN. They have regional sites for the first two rounds, I think, and then the final 4 in a pro stadium. The finals in Baltimore got close to 40K fans one year. The stands have been pretty full for the first and second round games. Obviously the regional sites negate home field advantage, but a few sites happen to be host participants if they make the tournament like Princeton did.

So my question is, would this format work for FCS? I could easily see Montana or ASU hosting a double header and drawing really well.

Last time it was in Baltimore, there were over 52,000. Didn't hurt Hopkins was in it. Duke or UVa will be in the final game, expect a very large crowd, as both teams are flush with baltimore HS grads.

[blukeys]

Still, aren't there only about 60 schools playing D-I Lacrosse? How many D-II and D-III schools play lacrosse? And it isn't like the majority of high schools in the Northeast play lacrosse either. They're doing one heck of a job of drawing general lacrosse fans from that cross section! But you know what, I've considered attending because it is an event in a major league venue in a big city. I still maintain that making our championship game an EVENT at a great location would enhance the FCS Championship game.

I guess you don't get ESPNU or CBS College Sports (the old CSTV) because every Saturday this Spring there were up to seven lacrosse games to watch. It seemed like ESPNU had a minimum of three games on every Saturday.

Jim, Lacrosse is probably the fastest growing sport in Delaware over the last 10 years and that includes the girls' teams. Lacrosse is clearly regional which explains why you can get good crowds at either a Baltimore or Philly Pro sports venue. (Both Philly and Baltimore venues have easy access to I-95 so Long Island and New York fans can get there in autos.)

The D-2 and D-3 teams come from the same areas. So Salisbury University fans can see a D-3 championship by driving 3 hours to either Philly or Baltimore.

This is not the case in NCAA football. The East has the most number of quality teams in FCS but that is not the case in D-2. D-3 is dominated by midwest teams.

Lacrosse is a unique case but needs to be watched. Lacrosse grows wherever people get a chance to see it.

[andy7171]

Still, aren't there only about 60 schools playing D-I Lacrosse? How many D-II and D-III schools play lacrosse? And it isn't like the majority of high schools in the Northeast play lacrosse either. They're doing one heck of a job of drawing general lacrosse fans from that cross section! But you know what, I've considered attending because it is an event in a major league venue in a big city. I still maintain that making our championship game an EVENT at a great location would enhance the FCS Championship game.

I guess you don't get ESPNU or CBS College Sports (the old CSTV) because every Saturday this Spring there were up to seven lacrosse games to watch. It seemed like ESPNU had a minimum of three games on every Saturday.

All the high schools here in Maryland have boys and girls teams. Heck, my 7 year old is playing in her 3rd year!

I agree with blukeys that it's the fast growing game, more so on the womens side because it offsets titleIX worrys. ODU and JMU both have womens team and no mens programs.

...fingers crossed! :)

[NHwildEcat]

All the high schools here in Maryland have boys and girls teams. Heck, my 7 year old is playing in her 3rd year!

I agree with blukeys that it's the fast growing game, more so on the womens side because it offsets titleIX worrys. ODU and JMU both have womens team and no mens programs.

...fingers crossed! :)

Same story with UNH. I don't see it happening for UNH anytime soon though, even though it would be a sport that could generate more revenue then say soccer.

[Seawolf97]

That Stony Brook stadium did look awesome yesterday. Perfect size for FCS, and if they ever move up, it will be a cool looking low-level FBS stadium as well. It seems like it will expand easily.

Actually what you saw was phase 1 completed in 2002. The stadium was designed for growth-phase 2 would go 15k and the final phase if ever would go to just under 21k. Who knows if we will ever get there. For Lax Quarter finals you saw on TV -attendance was 10,024 including standees. All we need is more State Money!

[Catsfan2]

Another reason the lacrosse tournament draws so well is that it is generally a big sport in more prestigious schools with large and wealthy alumni fan bases. Of the 16 teams in the DI tournament this year, only 1 school (Hofstra) is not a Tier I institution.

[aceinthehole]

Same story with UNH. I don't see it happening for UNH anytime soon though, even though it would be a sport that could generate more revenue then say soccer.

Same at CCSU and UConn - WLax, but no men's team.

[flea]

Been shown here for the playoffs I might watch the final