FCS Super Conference - how would it compare with FBS?

[caribbeanhen]

I was curious to see how the top ten 1AA teams if lumped together in a hypothetical Super Conference would fare against the so called big boys. Using Saragin, the top 10 simple average would be 69.7, so it would be mathmatically better than Mountain West, WAC, Conf USA, MID - American, Sun belt - so no surprises, I was hopeful the AA conference would be better than the Big 10, but just fell a little short. Anyway, Nova is ranked #37, W&M # 49, Montana - #64 and Appy # 72



1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 81.00 81.40 ( 1) 12
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.32 78.24 ( 2) 10
3 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.34 76.26 ( 3) 12
4 BIG EAST (A) = 76.25 76.22 ( 4) 8
5 BIG 12 (A) = 74.69 75.12 ( 5) 12
6 BIG TEN (A) = 72.46 72.83 ( 6) 11
7 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 69.81 68.43 ( 8) 3
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 68.35 69.22 ( 7) 9
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 66.35 66.74 ( 9) 9
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 64.83 64.69 ( 10) 12
11 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 60.74 60.87 ( 11) 13
12 COLONIAL (AA)= 58.98 58.99 ( 12) 12
13 SUN BELT (A) = 57.49 57.53 ( 13) 9
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 54.43 54.27 ( 15) 9
15 SOUTHERN (AA)= 54.21 54.94 ( 14) 9
16 GREAT WEST (AA)= 52.49 52.58 ( 16) 5
17 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 52.24 52.01 ( 17) 9
18 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 46.68 46.45 ( 18) 8
19 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 45.04 44.15 ( 20) 7
20 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 44.74 45.33 ( 19) 8
21 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 43.49 43.58 ( 21) 7
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.51 42.40 ( 22) 9

[WVAPPmountaineer]

There is no question in my mind that the top teams on our level would compete in most conferences - APP, Richmond, W&M, Vill would be right in the middle of the sorry ACC, if not higher - Delaware, JMU and GSU in previous years -

[AppAlum2003]

Saragin is ridiculous... up until last week, Elon was still ranked above ASU - even after losing to them.

[Redbird Ray]

It's time for the CAA to move as a conference to FBS. If you think about it, every other region in the country has their non-BCS FBS league such as:

MAC- Midwest/Rust Belt

CUSA/Sun Belt- Southeast/Texas

MWC/WAC- West/West Coast

Still no east coast league though. I think that's part of the CAA's strength. They are the defacto east coast non BCS league (recruiting similar caliber regional athletes as the WAC, MAC, CUSA), but playing in FCS.

It looks like 4 or 5 schools could already make the jump, and I'm sure Buffalo, Temple and a few others would leave their conferences to join.

[paul1978]

It's time for the CAA to move as a conference to FBS. If you think about it, every other region in the country has their non-BCS FBS league such as:

MAC- Midwest/Rust Belt

CUSA/Sun Belt- Southeast/Texas

MWC/WAC- West/West Coast

Still no east coast league though. I think that's part of the CAA's strength. They are the defacto east coast non BCS league (recruiting similar caliber regional athletes as the WAC, MAC, CUSA), but playing in FCS.

It looks like 4 or 5 schools could already make the jump, and I'm sure Buffalo, Temple and a few others would leave their conferences to join.

How many CAA schools met the attendance requirement of a minimum average of 15,000 people in attendance every other year? xchinscratchx

[Gil Dobie]

There is no question in my mind that the top teams on our level would compete in most conferences - APP, Richmond, W&M, Vill would be right in the middle of the sorry ACC, if not higher - Delaware, JMU and GSU in previous years -

Top FCS schools would finish middle of the pack, if not higher in the Big Ten this year.

[DFW HOYA]

It's time for the CAA to move as a conference to FBS.

The only current CAA schools that meet the I-A attendance threshold are App State, Delaware, and JMU (just barely).

[WVAPPmountaineer]

The only current CAA schools that meet the I-A attendance threshold are App State, Delaware, and JMU (just barely).

Please don't refer to APP as a CAA school xsmiley_wix

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Top FCS schools would finish middle of the pack, if not higher in the Big Ten this year.

We've already witnessed OUR BEST beating their best ----

[SpiderSafety75]

Um...that wasn't exactly an example of 'beating the Big 10's best.' A nice win, but let's not get carried away.

[caribbeanhen]

The only current CAA schools that meet the I-A attendance threshold are App State, Delaware, and JMU (just barely).

add Montana to that attendance list

[LeadBolt]

It's time for the CAA to move as a conference to FBS. If you think about it, every other region in the country has their non-BCS FBS league such as:

MAC- Midwest/Rust Belt

CUSA/Sun Belt- Southeast/Texas

MWC/WAC- West/West Coast

Still no east coast league though. I think that's part of the CAA's strength. They are the defacto east coast non BCS league (recruiting similar caliber regional athletes as the WAC, MAC, CUSA), but playing in FCS.

It looks like 4 or 5 schools could already make the jump, and I'm sure Buffalo, Temple and a few others would leave their conferences to join.

I attended W&M pre I-AA, I have seen how this works and it is not particularly pretty. I was there at the end of the Lou Holtz era, when we were almost competitive with the larger schools. With an UG enrollment of 5,800 and pretty good academic requirements, it is hard to compete in I-A (congratulations to WFU for doing so).

Playing VT, UVA, UMD, WVU, etc. with a small stadium, small almuni base, and small budget was a bummer. If memory serves me correctly we held a 4th qtr. lead in all 11 games and finished 5-6 in 1971, when we went to the Tangerine Bowl.

Just didn't have enough horse power to hang in with the big boys, and that is who we played outside of Sou. Con. Once heard Holtz say he couldn't get enough quality players to stock both O and D for a full game.

It is more fun to be able to go to the playoffs every few years and have 7-4, 8-3, 9-2 teams than 2-9, 3-8, and 4-7 teams (which we still have some years in FCS).

My advice to you is to build up your own program and there by build up FCS, rather than chasing out the stronger teams and dragging it down!

[nwFL Griz]

There is no question in my mind that the top teams on our level would compete in most conferences - APP, Richmond, W&M, Vill would be right in the middle of the sorry ACC, if not higher - Delaware, JMU and GSU in previous years -

I'm sorry, this is a ridiculous statement. The difference in top FCS teams and middle of the pack ACC teams is the depth. While middle ACC teams (MD, NCSU, Wake) don't always perform well in single games against FCS teams, week-in and week-out would be too much for FCS teams. App, Richmond, Vill (as they are now) would be bottom-feeders in the ACC. Not saying they couldn't compete over time, but as they are now, it wouldn't be cute. Matter-of-fact, I believe if Richmond and Duke would play again right now, Duke would win this game.

Enjoy single game success against FBS teams, but don't get an over-inflated opinion of how FCS teams would fare in FBS conferences, especially in BCS conferences.

[DFW HOYA]

Enjoy single game success against FBS teams, but don't get an over-inflated opinion of how FCS teams would fare in FBS conferences, especially in BCS conferences.

Agreed. Look at how Western Kentucky has fared of late in week to week competition.

An open question would be whether this conference is created solely with I-AA upstarts or include existing I-A schools like Temple and Buffalo, which affects competitive levels as well.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I'm sorry, this is a ridiculous statement. The difference in top FCS teams and middle of the pack ACC teams is the depth. While middle ACC teams (MD, NCSU, Wake) don't always perform well in single games against FCS teams, week-in and week-out would be too much for FCS teams. App, Richmond, Vill (as they are now) would be bottom-feeders in the ACC. Not saying they couldn't compete over time, but as they are now, it wouldn't be cute. Matter-of-fact, I believe if Richmond and Duke would play again right now, Duke would win this game.

Enjoy single game success against FBS teams, but don't get an over-inflated opinion of how FCS teams would fare in FBS conferences, especially in BCS conferences.

I stand by my post - if APP played ECU now with Armanti - if, if , if - W&M DID beat UVA who beat UNC who beat Miami - Richmond DID beat Duke who beat NC State who beat UNC who beat ECU ---- APP continually beat WF so WF stopped playing them - I could go on forever but I won't

Let's see Northern Iowa had Iowa beaten - the same IOWA in the BCS bowl = My statement to you is to not undersell teams and programs who are winners ----

[GoneTribal]

I think we're starting to miss the point of the thread here though. Of course there are issues with FCS competing against BCS teams. BUT, if you take the top 10 I-AA teams each year, and compare to all FBS, I would guess it consistently is better than all the non-BCS conferences (or very very close to the top), which these numbers suggest.

Essentially, if you made a superFCSconference, you would only have to worry about one-off games against BCS, b/c you would have your conference schedule to worry about, so it isn't unrealistic to think the winner of the FCS super could take out a few BCS and teams and have a great year among the "big boys"

[Grrrrriz]

I stand by my post - if APP played ECU now with Armanti - if, if , if - W&M DID beat UVA who beat UNC who beat Miami - Richmond DID beat Duke who beat NC State who beat UNC who beat ECU ---- APP continually beat WF so WF stopped playing them - I could go on forever but I won't

Let's see Northern Iowa had Iowa beaten - the same IOWA in the BCS bowl = My statement to you is to not undersell teams and programs who are winners ----

Your logic is totally ridiculous. In 2007 App got beat by Wofford, does that mean Wofford could have beat Michigan? The same goes for UNI, sure they came close to beating Iowa, but they got beat by SIU and SDSU. Does this mean that SIU and SDSU would beat Iowa? No way. You may do fine for a singular game, and the top level talent between FCS and FBS isn't that much different, but the BCS has much more depth. If App was in the ACC they would finish with 2-3 wins tops for the first 5 years.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Your logic is totally ridiculous. In 2007 App got beat by Wofford, does that mean Wofford could have beat Michigan? The same goes for UNI, sure they came close to beating Iowa, but they got beat by SIU and SDSU. Does this mean that SIU and SDSU would beat Iowa? No way. You may do fine for a singular game, and the top level talent between FCS and FBS isn't that much different, but the BCS has much more depth. If App was in the ACC they would finish with 2-3 wins tops for the first 5 years.

Look, as a coach for 20 years I personally don't apply the we beat you - you beat them theory - I was only stating how stupid it was for him to point out - If Duke played Richmond now - Duke would win - You play the game that Saturday and then move onto the next one - End of story!!!!

I am surprised as you seem to be a Griz fan that you don't think your team could compete and be at least middle of the pack in many FBS conferences????

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Look, as a coach for 20 years I personally don't apply the we beat you - you beat them theory - I was only stating how stupid it was for him to point out - If Duke played Richmond now - Duke would win - You play the game that Saturday and then move onto the next one - End of story!!!!

I am surprised as you seem to be a Griz fan that you don't think your team could compete and be at least middle of the pack in many FBS conferences????

And remember half of the games would be played at Wash-Griz or The Rock or in the Panther Dome or .................................................. .............

[caribbeanhen]

I e-mailed this yahoo writer to see if he would be interested to rank FCS teams into his weekly ratings. As you can, see he was not.

From: Michael Huguenin <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, October 21, 2009 7:12:18 PM
Subject: RE: top 120

"Again, it’s not called the “top 120.” It’s a ranking of the 120 teams that play fbs football.

There are numerous fcs polls, and jeff sagarin produces a computer program that ranks all the schools."

[nwFL Griz]

Look, as a coach for 20 years I personally don't apply the we beat you - you beat them theory - I was only stating how stupid it was for him to point out - If Duke played Richmond now - Duke would win - You play the game that Saturday and then move onto the next one - End of story!!!!

I am surprised as you seem to be a Griz fan that you don't think your team could compete and be at least middle of the pack in many FBS conferences????


It was stupid of me to point out that a rematch of two teams wouldn't go the same way the first time? How is that stupid? The fact is Richmond capitalized on a Duke team that was underprepared, and likely overconfident. Yes, you play the game and move on, but to suggest single game victories somehow equates to long term success (like alot of you seem to do) is completely illogical.

BTW, I am a Montana fan (and have been for as long as I can remember), and while I enjoy the success they enjoy on this level, I have great doubts about the level of success they would enjoy in any of the FBS conferences. WKU is a great example of this. Decent success at this level, now a bottom feeder in FBS.

[JMUNJ08]

And remember half of the games would be played at Wash-Griz or The Rock or in the Panther Dome or .................................................. .............

Home field is huge but won't make up the glaring difference with FBS & FCS.

85-63 schollies. Thats the difference. Their names are big at our level but recruiting nationally like the big schools do will take some time. You see a lot of teams stick with the big guys early in games only to get pummeled by size & depth as the games wear on.

Appy/Griz/JMU etc could win some games but won't be bowl eligible for a few years until they get those 22 extra schollies put to use. Plus, who really cares if you're bowl eligible but cannot win the NC....

[Husky4Life]

Depth is the current problem. These teams would go from 63-85 scholarships, however the recruiting battles would change. Instead of recruiting against top FCS & bad FBS teams to stay competitive, you'd have to recruit agains BCS schools, which would make things a lot more difficult.

[Husky4Life]

Marshall is the only school I can think of that did well in it's first year. I mean having Randy Moss & Chad Pennington helps a little though right?

[Appinator]

Home field is huge but won't make up the glaring difference with FBS & FCS.

85-63 schollies. Thats the difference. Their names are big at our level but recruiting nationally like the big schools do will take some time. You see a lot of teams stick with the big guys early in games only to get pummeled by size & depth as the games wear on.

Appy/Griz/JMU etc could win some games but won't be bowl eligible for a few years until they get those 22 extra schollies put to use. Plus, who really cares if you're bowl eligible but cannot win the NC....

This is the big difference between the two.

With everyone saying that "as of right now" we would be in the upper half of the ACC, we are really stretching the truth. If college football were a video game and we could turn the "Injuries" and "Fatigue" options off, then that might be the case. However, the subs that can rotate in and out, not starter tallent, is really what pushes most close FBS-FCS games into the FBS school's favor.

I am totally happy and contempt to stay right where we are. Let the ACC get ridiculed on a weekly basis, and have the sports yodelers jump with joy when we upset them. If we became another WKU/Marshall/Troy, I would hate it.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Home field is huge but won't make up the glaring difference with FBS & FCS.

85-63 schollies. Thats the difference. Their names are big at our level but recruiting nationally like the big schools do will take some time. You see a lot of teams stick with the big guys early in games only to get pummeled by size & depth as the games wear on.

Appy/Griz/JMU etc could win some games but won't be bowl eligible for a few years until they get those 22 extra schollies put to use. Plus, who really cares if you're bowl eligible but cannot win the NC....

Look, I've been around a long time and I know all the facts - I'm just saying anyone who would with absolute certainty write the top FCS teams off without a chance is - let me be more politically correct - exposing some lapses of mental prowess ----

[JMUNJ08]

Look, I've been around a long time and I know all the facts - I'm just saying anyone who would with absolute certainty write the top FCS teams off without a chance is - let me be more politically correct - exposing some lapses of mental prowess ----

So you're saying I need a padded room?xeyebrowx

MAC/Sunbelt/WAC(minus Boise)/C-USA - a top FCS could be competitive until the injuries started to mount. I refuse to believe any BCS league that FCS powerhouse would last the whole season.

[nwFL Griz]

Look, I've been around a long time and I know all the facts - I'm just saying anyone who would with absolute certainty write the top FCS teams off without a chance is - let me be more politically correct - exposing some lapses of mental prowess ----

I'm not saying absolute certainty...but just this side of it. In a one-off game, all bets are off, cause, you know, any given saturday. But if you are talking a full conference schedule, as the teams are right now....there's just no way.

A little data for you to chew on. Since 1999 (since that is as far back as I felt like going), here are the records of a few of the top FCS teams vs. FBS competition.

Montana 4-4 (don't get too excited, that includes being 4-1 against Idaho)

JMU 0-6

App St 2-10

Richmond 3-8

Villanova 3-6

W&M 1-10

And aside from the ASU-Mich game, the wins were over teams at the bottom of their conferences. So what about these numbers give you any kind of thought that an upper-level FCS team could compete week-in and week-out in an FBS conference?

And I'm the one exposing lapses of mental prowess? xeyebrowx

[WVAPPmountaineer]

I'm not saying absolute certainty...but just this side of it. In a one-off game, all bets are off, cause, you know, any given saturday. But if you are talking a full conference schedule, as the teams are right now....there's just no way.

A little data for you to chew on. Since 1999 (since that is as far back as I felt like going), here are the records of a few of the top FCS teams vs. FBS competition.

Montana 4-4 (don't get too excited, that includes being 4-1 against Idaho)

JMU 0-6

App St 2-10

Richmond 3-8

Villanova 3-6

W&M 1-10

And aside from the ASU-Mich game, the wins were over teams at the bottom of their conferences. So what about these numbers give you any kind of thought that an upper-level FCS team could compete week-in and week-out in an FBS conference?

And I'm the one exposing lapses of mental prowess? xeyebrowx

If you look a little further that you will find many games between the two divisions have been decided by 3 points or less and other 7 or less - APP had Auburn beaten at Auburn a few years ago until the last play of the game - Again I'm not saying they would be in the top half of the conference just that they would be competitive - PLUS, remember all of these were AWAY games for the FCS teams - You can't convince me that if Indiana or Minnesota or NC State or UConn or Colorado or Miss State or Washington State came to Wash-Griz one or more of them wouldn't leave with a L ? - I know some would leave Boone with one ---- I'll stick with that ----

Also are you a Miami basketball fan? ----

[nwFL Griz]

Also are you a Miami basketball fan? ----

Not really. I follow them, but in addition to Montana, Syracuse is my basketball team.

[Jackman]

The only current CAA schools that meet the I-A attendance threshold are App State, Delaware, and JMU (just barely).

Old Dominion met it. App isn't CAA. UMass averaged about 3000 below the requirement these last 4 years, but you don't have to meet that average until 3+ years AFTER moving to FBS, and even then there are a series of 'second chance' periods. One game against a well-supported FBS program on a neutral field every 2-3 years pretty much takes care of it, unless you can't even manage 8000 attendance at your other home games that year.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Not really. I follow them, but in addition to Montana, Syracuse is my basketball team.

Coach Haith is a long-time friend - great man ----

[Jackman]

1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 81.00 81.40 ( 1) 12
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.32 78.24 ( 2) 10
3 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.34 76.26 ( 3) 12
4 BIG EAST (A) = 76.25 76.22 ( 4) 8
5 BIG 12 (A) = 74.69 75.12 ( 5) 12
6 BIG TEN (A) = 72.46 72.83 ( 6) 11
7 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 69.81 68.43 ( 8) 3
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 68.35 69.22 ( 7) 9
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 66.35 66.74 ( 9) 9
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 64.83 64.69 ( 10) 12
11 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 60.74 60.87 ( 11) 13
12 COLONIAL (AA)= 58.98 58.99 ( 12) 12
13 SUN BELT (A) = 57.49 57.53 ( 13) 9
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 54.43 54.27 ( 15) 9
15 SOUTHERN (AA)= 54.21 54.94 ( 14) 9
16 GREAT WEST (AA)= 52.49 52.58 ( 16) 5
17 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 52.24 52.01 ( 17) 9
18 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 46.68 46.45 ( 18) 8
19 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 45.04 44.15 ( 20) 7
20 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 44.74 45.33 ( 19) 8
21 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 43.49 43.58 ( 21) 7
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.51 42.40 ( 22) 9

Unrelated to the current discussion, but losing Northeastern and Hofstra pushes the CAA ahead of the MAC in this rating system, up to 60.95 in simple average and 61.39 in central mean (if I'm calculating that correctly).

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Unrelated to the current discussion, but losing Northeastern and Hofstra pushes the CAA ahead of the MAC in this rating system, up to 60.95 in simple average and 61.39 in central mean (if I'm calculating that correctly).

With that being taken into consideration I think the CAA is better than the MAC ----

[SpiderSafety75]

I played at UR when we were Div 1 - my recollections are the same as the W&M'er. We'd lose our first 3-5 games when playing outside the SC and then 'really start the season' with the SC slate. The only exception was my second year when UR went 6-0 to start the season and beat WF and West Virginia and was nationally ranked for 2 glorious weeks before losing to NE Louisiana and then ECU - but that was one season, the only time in my 5 years (redshirt medical) we beat someone outside the SC who was a current BCS team. As has been posited, depth is the big issue.

App, JMU, and Montana have the kind of size and facility capability that coulde put them in the big league if they wanted to be, and ODU could join that group. They have to decide if they want to be big fish in the smaller pond or hope for an occasional 6-5 season.

I was at that Duke game, though - I think UR beats them 6 or 7 times out of 10 this season. I know Duke got better, but I really thought UR had better personnel.

[nwFL Griz]

Coach Haith is a long-time friend - great man ----

He is a great man, and I think he is doing a great job!

[LeadBolt]

I was curious to see how the top ten 1AA teams if lumped together in a hypothetical Super Conference would fare against the so called big boys. Using Saragin, the top 10 simple average would be 69.7, so it would be mathmatically better than Mountain West, WAC, Conf USA, MID - American, Sun belt - so no surprises, I was hopeful the AA conference would be better than the Big 10, but just fell a little short. Anyway, Nova is ranked #37, W&M # 49, Montana - #64 and Appy # 72



1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 81.00 81.40 ( 1) 12
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.32 78.24 ( 2) 10
3 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.34 76.26 ( 3) 12
4 BIG EAST (A) = 76.25 76.22 ( 4) 8
5 BIG 12 (A) = 74.69 75.12 ( 5) 12
6 BIG TEN (A) = 72.46 72.83 ( 6) 11
7 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 69.81 68.43 ( 8) 3
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 68.35 69.22 ( 7) 9
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 66.35 66.74 ( 9) 9
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 64.83 64.69 ( 10) 12
11 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 60.74 60.87 ( 11) 13
12 COLONIAL (AA)= 58.98 58.99 ( 12) 12
13 SUN BELT (A) = 57.49 57.53 ( 13) 9
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 54.43 54.27 ( 15) 9
15 SOUTHERN (AA)= 54.21 54.94 ( 14) 9
16 GREAT WEST (AA)= 52.49 52.58 ( 16) 5
17 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 52.24 52.01 ( 17) 9
18 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 46.68 46.45 ( 18) 8
19 PATRIOT LEAGUE (AA)= 45.04 44.15 ( 20) 7
20 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 44.74 45.33 ( 19) 8
21 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 43.49 43.58 ( 21) 7
22 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 41.51 42.40 ( 22) 9

Again, depth is the problem, as many have said.

On another note, it would appear that maybe MAC and SunBelt conferences ought to be (AA). There is a big jump from #11 to # 10 on this list.... xeyebrowx

[ASU-Superman]

I wouldn't want to make a jump from the FCS and give up the incredible playoff atmosphere.

[caribbeanhen]

remember W Kentucky...they were 0-12 this year, what were they thinking?

[GunsAndGuitars]

I wouldn't want to make a jump from the FCS and give up the incredible playoff atmosphere.

The drama of playoffs are enough for me to want to stay FCS.

[Wildcat80]

I'm not saying absolute certainty...but just this side of it. In a one-off game, all bets are off, cause, you know, any given saturday. But if you are talking a full conference schedule, as the teams are right now....there's just no way.

A little data for you to chew on. Since 1999 (since that is as far back as I felt like going), here are the records of a few of the top FCS teams vs. FBS competition.

Montana 4-4 (don't get too excited, that includes being 4-1 against Idaho)

JMU 0-6

App St 2-10

Richmond 3-8

Villanova 3-6

W&M 1-10

And aside from the ASU-Mich game, the wins were over teams at the bottom of their conferences. So what about these numbers give you any kind of thought that an upper-level FCS team could compete week-in and week-out in an FBS conference?

And I'm the one exposing lapses of mental prowess? xeyebrowx

Interesting but you are right very mediocre. Now if you want impressive...New Hampshire is 5 & 0 over FBS the last 5 years. Rutgers, Northwestern, Marshall, Army, & Ball State. Very Nice. Of course we open 2010 at Pitt so we will be challenenged...gotta hope they play like they can just show up & win. xthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupx

[Achilles Return]

add Montana to that attendance list

And GSU, even still.

[JMU Newbill]

Know what the difference between FBS and FCS is? Talent (and 20 or so scholarships). Choose your top 10 FCS teams, match them up against middle tier FBS teams over a 11 game schedule, and all 10 of those FCS teams would have a losing record over the course of a season. Sorry!

[caribbeanhen]

Know what the difference between FBS and FCS is? Talent (and 20 or so scholarships). Choose your top 10 FCS teams, match them up against middle tier FBS teams over a 11 game schedule, and all 10 of those FCS teams would have a losing record over the course of a season. Sorry!

let me get back to you on this, define middle tier please

[The Moody1]

Um...that wasn't exactly an example of 'beating the Big 10's best.' A nice win, but let's not get carried away.

The 2007 Michigan team finished in second place in the Big 10 and beat Florida in their bowl game. People try to come across like the 2007 Michigan team was some sort of door mat.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

The 2007 Michigan team finished in second place in the Big 10 and beat Florida in their bowl game. People try to come across like the 2007 Michigan team was some sort of door mat.

And I believe there were 11 players on that Michigan team who are now in the NFL - just a bunch of nobodys Lloyd Carr picked up on the street corner - It is amazing to me how so many try to blow that game off as no big deal ----

[DSUrocks07]

let me get back to you on this, define middle tier please

http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings

I would say all those 5-8 win teams as middle-tier

Use the Pac-10 and WAC for example

Arizona
Stanford
Nevada
Fresno
Idaho
Hawaii
USC
Cal
Washington
UCLA

How would a Montana fare in this stretch of games?

[DSUrocks07]

So how many national championships would this "Super Conference" win at the FBS-level?

Could they compete? Yes. Could they be bowl eligible? Yes. But to think that an FCS team could just waltz into a FBS conference and win the league title is laughable.

[Mountaineer#96]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings

I would say all those 5-8 win teams as middle-tier

Use the Pac-10 and WAC for example

Arizona
Stanford
Nevada
Fresno
Idaho
Hawaii
USC
Cal
Washington
UCLA

How would a Montana fare in this stretch of games?

3-7 or 4-6

Take into mind they would get home games against half of these guys....you know what that means.........

LOTS OF NOISE IN WA-GRIZ!!!!!xrulesxxcoffeexxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxnod xxlolx

[DSUrocks07]

3-7 or 4-6

Take into mind they would get home games against half of these guys....you know what that means.........

LOTS OF NOISE IN WA-GRIZ!!!!!xrulesxxcoffeexxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxnod xxlolx

string together a few of those 3-7 or 4-6 seasons and then see how "LOUD" WA-Griz will be xlolx

Trying to recruit directly against the BCS and FBS schools is a lot different than just the FCS schools. And you could say goodbye to transfers as well. Any transfers to another FBS-level program would have to sit for a year. xrulesx

[GannonFan]

The 2007 Michigan team finished in second place in the Big 10 and beat Florida in their bowl game. People try to come across like the 2007 Michigan team was some sort of door mat.


And I believe there were 11 players on that Michigan team who are now in the NFL - just a bunch of nobodys Lloyd Carr picked up on the street corner - It is amazing to me how so many try to blow that game off as no big deal ----

Well, where Michigan was at the start of the year and where they ended does go to show you what can change during the season. Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, and much more than the Appy St game showed that. And even more importantly, Michigan was in no ways prepared or equipped to play the type of spread offense that Appy St played. The best evidence for that was what happened the week after the Appy St game - Oregon came into the same stadium and played the same kind of offense and they completely annihilated Michigan (39-7) - and Oregon ended up losing 4 games that year and only played in the Sun Bowl.

The win as fantastic for Appy St and probably one of the best FCS/FBS wins ever, but let's not hide the fact that Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, especially against that kind of offense.

[DSUrocks07]

Well, where Michigan was at the start of the year and where they ended does go to show you what can change during the season. Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, and much more than the Appy St game showed that. And even more importantly, Michigan was in no ways prepared or equipped to play the type of spread offense that Appy St played. The best evidence for that was what happened the week after the Appy St game - Oregon came into the same stadium and played the same kind of offense and they completely annihilated Michigan (39-7) - and Oregon ended up losing 4 games that year and only played in the Sun Bowl.

The win as fantastic for Appy St and probably one of the best FCS/FBS wins ever, but let's not hide the fact that Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, especially against that kind of offense.

You do realize that your punching a hole in the argument for Boise State right? xlolx

Any Given Saturday is the key term here, but you can't truly believe that playing teams of that caliber week in and week out would net positive results.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Well, where Michigan was at the start of the year and where they ended does go to show you what can change during the season. Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, and much more than the Appy St game showed that. And even more importantly, Michigan was in no ways prepared or equipped to play the type of spread offense that Appy St played. The best evidence for that was what happened the week after the Appy St game - Oregon came into the same stadium and played the same kind of offense and they completely annihilated Michigan (39-7) - and Oregon ended up losing 4 games that year and only played in the Sun Bowl.

The win as fantastic for Appy St and probably one of the best FCS/FBS wins ever, but let's not hide the fact that Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, especially against that kind of offense.

Sorry my friend but you are wrong - they had 4 seniors come back to win the national championship (all would have been and eventually were top draft picks) - You are correct that they weren't prepared for APP - but those guys came back to win THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - Their dream ended the first weekend of the season - I was there and here are the headlines from that Sunday's Ann Arbor paper ---- Front Page -
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?
and the front page of the sports section -
ONE AND DONE

Now you tell me how a team comes back from that? - You of course are selling Oregon short as they climbed all the way to #2 in the nation before losing their QB Dennis Dixon for the season - Losing Dixon is the equivilant of APP losing Armanti last year ----

[caribbeanhen]

Could they compete? Yes. Could they be bowl eligible? Yes. But to think that an FCS team could just waltz into a FBS conference and win the league title is laughable.

DSU, did somebody actually say this?

[Skjellyfetti]

Well, where Michigan was at the start of the year and where they ended does go to show you what can change during the season. Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, and much more than the Appy St game showed that. And even more importantly, Michigan was in no ways prepared or equipped to play the type of spread offense that Appy St played. The best evidence for that was what happened the week after the Appy St game - Oregon came into the same stadium and played the same kind of offense and they completely annihilated Michigan (39-7) - and Oregon ended up losing 4 games that year and only played in the Sun Bowl.

The win as fantastic for Appy St and probably one of the best FCS/FBS wins ever, but let's not hide the fact that Michigan wasn't all that good at the start of the year, especially against that kind of offense.

Yeah, they had a huge weakness for defending the spread... but, we were built to take advantage of that and we did... I don't see how you can discredit our win because they had a weakness we exploited.

We've put up a lot of points on a lot of teams the last few years. Any other victories that need to be discredited because our opponent couldn't defend the spread?

[DSUrocks07]

Sorry my friend but you are wrong - they had 4 seniors come back to win the national championship (all would have been and eventually were top draft picks) - You are correct that they weren't prepared for APP - but those guys came back to win THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - Their dream ended the first weekend of the season - I was there and here are the headlines from that Sunday's Ann Arbor paper ---- Front Page -
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?
and the front page of the sports section -
ONE AND DONE

Now you tell me how a team comes back from that? - You of course are selling Oregon short as they climbed all the way to #2 in the nation before losing their QB Dennis Dixon for the season - Losing Dixon is the equivilant of APP losing Armanti last year ----

That actually goes along with his point that its a long way from Day 1 to the last day of the season in college football. Oh and those 4 returning seniors played on offense. Jake Long, Chad Henne, Mario Manningham, Mike Hart. The offense put up 32 points in that game, AND put them in a position to win the game. But its was the defense and special teams that let them down.

[DSUrocks07]

DSU, did somebody actually say this?

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1490093&postcount=2

[caribbeanhen]

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1490093&postcount=2

he didn't say they were would be wining FBS titles,

[Grrrrriz]

Sorry my friend but you are wrong - they had 4 seniors come back to win the national championship (all would have been and eventually were top draft picks) - You are correct that they weren't prepared for APP - but those guys came back to win THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP - Their dream ended the first weekend of the season - I was there and here are the headlines from that Sunday's Ann Arbor paper ---- Front Page -
WHAT JUST HAPPENED?
and the front page of the sports section -
ONE AND DONE

Now you tell me how a team comes back from that? - You of course are selling Oregon short as they climbed all the way to #2 in the nation before losing their QB Dennis Dixon for the season - Losing Dixon is the equivilant of APP losing Armanti last year ----

You guys are also forgetting that you lost to Wofford just a short while after that huge Michigan victory, and Wofford is no Michigan. The Michigan victory was great, but had you played them later in the season I don't think you would have beaten them. I would say, had you played them 10 times, you would have won 2 maybe 3.

[DSUrocks07]

he didn't say they were would be wining FBS titles,

I took the "if not higher" part as in, competing for FBS titles

[caribbeanhen]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/standings

I would say all those 5-8 win teams as middle-tier

Use the Pac-10 and WAC for example

Arizona
Stanford
Nevada
Fresno
Idaho
Hawaii
USC
Cal
Washington
UCLA

How would a Montana fare in this stretch of games?

I would say your middle tier is leaning toward upper middle

middle tier rating on the poll that started this (Saragin) is about 70 so compared with 69.7 average of the hypothetical conference, it's a dead heat, the FCS super conference would be smack dab in the middle of the 120 FBS teams, so 6-5 for Montana

[WVAPPmountaineer]

You guys are also forgetting that you lost to Wofford just a short while after that huge Michigan victory, and Wofford is no Michigan. The Michigan victory was great, but had you played them later in the season I don't think you would have beaten them. I would say, had you played them 10 times, you would have won 2 maybe 3.

Sorry friend - but nobody really cares what you think about playing them 10 times - we played them once, in front 110,000 with their 11 NFL players (and probably a few more graduating this year) AND BEAT THEM ---- END OF STORY

Your point about Wofford makes my point about Oregon without Dixon - Armanti missed 3 weeks after the Michigan game - tried to play against Wofford - got hurt again and missed 2 1/2 more games - And who won the National Championship that year????

[longtimemocfan]

How many CAA schools met the attendance requirement of a minimum average of 15,000 people in attendance every other year? xchinscratchx

How many FBS schools actually average 15,000 a game ? You will be surprised at how many don't. Mainly schools in The Mac,Sunbelt, C- USA and WAC.

[JMU Newbill]

ASU beat Michigan once. It was a great win, no doubt. But it was 1 win. Crazy things happen in sports. No one can speak in certainties on this, but everyone outside of ASU would agree on a few points...

1) If ASU played Michigan 10 times that year, ASU goes 1-9 (0-10 more often than not).
2) If ASU played in the Big 10, they win no more than 2 games in the conference in any given year (2-6 conf), and no more than 4 games overall (4-8 at best)... maybe schedule an FCS team each year.

Now....
3) Replace ASU with any of the top tier FCS teams, start back over at point #1.


Go ahead, negative rep me all you want... JMO.

[LeadBolt]

To answer the original question in one word - Occasionally

[WVAPPmountaineer]

ASU beat Michigan once. It was a great win, no doubt. But it was 1 win. Crazy things happen in sports. No one can speak in certainties on this, but everyone outside of ASU would agree on a few points...

1) If ASU played Michigan 10 times that year, ASU goes 1-9 (0-10 more often than not).
2) If ASU played in the Big 10, they win no more than 2 games in the conference in any given year (2-6 conf), and no more than 4 games overall (4-8 at best)... maybe schedule an FCS team each year.

Now....
3) Replace ASU with any of the top tier FCS teams, start back over at point #1.


Go ahead, negative rep me all you want... JMO.

Yeah - IF, IF, IF ---- and if APP played JMU 10 times, JMU would win one - Wait a minute - THAT IS NOT CONJECTURE - IT IS FACT :D

[JMU Newbill]

Yeah - IF, IF, IF ---- and if APP played JMU 10 times, JMU would win one - Wait a minute - THAT IS NOT CONJECTURE - IT IS FACT :D


Awww... disgruntled ASU fan couldn't stick to the point of the thread for more than 5 minutes??? Keep taking shots at JMU, I don't care. Your record against us is duly noted. xwhistlex

I also made sure to include the thought that every FCS team (that includes JMU) would share a similar fate in an FBS conference such as the big 10. But still, I guess every group of fans has their "streamer throwers" or people that have to take shots and/or get into a "my ___ is bigger than yours" contest.

Love the double standards. xcoffeex

[SpiderSafety75]

Oh brother. I can't believe you guys actually think that somehow ASU was really on some sort of par with Michigan because ASU beat them - once. As pointed out, they were terrible defensively at the beginning of the year, not just in the ASU game. This doesn't discount the win, it was one of the best all-time, if not THE best...but when UR beat Georgia Tech to make it into the Sweet Sixteen in the 80's, I don't think any of their fans thought that they would have been a 'middle of the road ACC team' if playing those guys twice a week. :)

[JMUNJ08]

Yeah - IF, IF, IF ---- and if APP played JMU 10 times, JMU would win one - Wait a minute - THAT IS NOT CONJECTURE - IT IS FACT :D

No yellow font please it hurts the eyesxcoffeex

I don't recall the JMU vs ASU plot on this thread. The big 10 isn't the best conference but an FCS team would take some time to compete there.

[Skjellyfetti]

I can't believe you guys actually think that somehow ASU was really on some sort of par with Michigan because ASU beat them - once

Yeah, I know it's absolutely ridiculous to think you're on some sort of par with a team you beat. Just ridiculous. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Not only were we on par with Michigan in 2007... we were better than them.

People can make the argument that App would have won only 3/10, 2/10, 1/10, 0/10 (yes, someone said that xlolx). The fact is we played them once that season. We beat them 1 out of 1. Anything else is just guesswork and opinion.

[Grrrrriz]

Yeah, I know it's absolutely ridiculous to think you're on some sort of par with a team you beat. Just ridiculous. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Not only were we on par with Michigan in 2007... we were better than them.

People can make the argument that App would have won only 3/10, 2/10, 1/10, 0/10 (yes, someone said that xlolx). The fact is we played them once that season. We beat them 1 out of 1. Anything else is just guesswork and opinion.

No it isn't. You also lost some games that year. And you won the National Championship. So were the teams that you lost to better teams than the eventual National Champions? Logic would dictate, no, if you win the NC, you are the best team in the FCS....but you did lose a couple games...those games are called flukes, you would usually win, but you didn't. Same with Michigan they would usually beat you, but that day they didn't. Doesn't mean you guys are on the same level as Michigan.

[Grrrrriz]

Sorry friend - but nobody really cares what you think about playing them 10 times - we played them once, in front 110,000 with their 11 NFL players (and probably a few more graduating this year) AND BEAT THEM ---- END OF STORY

Your point about Wofford makes my point about Oregon without Dixon - Armanti missed 3 weeks after the Michigan game - tried to play against Wofford - got hurt again and missed 2 1/2 more games - And who won the National Championship that year????

No, my point about you guys beating Michigan once, does not make you the better team (which is your argument). If that is the case, then Wofford was a better team than you that year, and by proxy better than Michigan. Pretty ridiculous don't you think?

[Skjellyfetti]

No it isn't. You also lost some games that year. And you won the National Championship. So were the teams that you lost to better teams than the eventual National Champions? Logic would dictate, no, if you win the NC, you are the best team in the FCS....but you did lose a couple games...those games are called flukes, you would usually win, but you didn't. Same with Michigan they would usually beat you, but that day they didn't. Doesn't mean you guys are on the same level as Michigan.

So, you'll be ok with me saying App is better than Montana even if Montana beats us on Saturday? You'll have no problem with me saying Montana got lucky and App is clearly the better team... Montana isn't on par with App State? You'd have no problem with that? Yeah, right.

We plays games for a reason... to decide these arguments of "who is better." If Montana wins they will be superior to Appalachian. If Appalachin wins they will be superior to Montana. Any fan coming on this message board saying the other team got lucky and their team is better... even though they lost... would be ridiculed. They'd be making the same argument you and others are makeing about App-Michigan. WE BEAT THEM. End of story.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

No, my point about you guys beating Michigan once, does not make you the better team (which is your argument). If that is the case, then Wofford was a better team than you that year, and by proxy better than Michigan. Pretty ridiculous don't you think?

Yeah - that is pretty ridiculous especially since I never said we were a better team than Michigan and would have won the Big 10 - I said we played them once, at their place with 110,000 fans, with their 11+ NFL players and we beat them - PLAIN AND SIMPLE ---- to say, well if you had played them 10 teams you would have lost the other 9 is just as ridiculous - Who knows???? - you don't, I don't, Grizzz doesn't - so cut out the what if crap ----

My original argument included APP and JMU and Montana and other top tier FCS teams (so I'm not just tooting the ASU horn) and that is I do honestly feel they would be at least in the middle of the pack of all the non-BCS FBS conferences and would on occasion be mid-tier in most major conferences other than the SEC

Look, ECU was lucky to beat APP this year 29-24 and to use the IF, IF, IFs everyone else is using - IF there had been 1 more minute in that game, ASU would have won - IF, Armanti is not on the sidelines in a sweatsuit but actually playing APP would have won - And ECU is THE CONFERENCE USA CHAMPION ----
But the fact is APP lost the game - if we had played 10 times crap - who cares? we didn't and we won't ----

Personally, I am sticking up for all top FCS teams - I think many of you are underselling the tradition of winning these programs have - not to mention half of the games at our ACTUAL HOME STADIUMS ----

[JMUNJ08]

I am at a loss with all this bickering why JMU fans have a bad rap?

"FCS Super Conference - how would it compare with FBS?" is the thread title.

App St. beat Michigan 1 game 1 day. You CANNOT tell me that they would have went on to have a better season than Michigan with their FBS schedule could you?

Start a new thread if you want to toot your own horn.

[JMUNJ08]

So, you'll be ok with me saying App is better than Montana even if Montana beats us on Saturday? You'll have no problem with me saying Montana got lucky and App is clearly the better team... Montana isn't on par with App State? You'd have no problem with that? Yeah, right.

We plays games for a reason... to decide these arguments of "who is better." If Montana wins they will be superior to Appalachian. If Appalachin wins they will be superior to Montana. Any fan coming on this message board saying the other team got lucky and their team is better... even though they lost... would be ridiculed. They'd be making the same argument you and others are makeing about App-Michigan. WE BEAT THEM. End of story.

So that means:
Nova > UR, UNH, W&M
W&M > UNH
UNH > Nova?????
UR > W&M

Maybe the better team THAT day is a simpler way to put it as shown by the CAA this year. Otherwise
Nova > UNH > McNeese > ASU
The score for Nova/ASU? about 45 - 16 if I got the game scores correct & divide by 3 (Don't want to go solely on margin of victory:)

[WVAPPmountaineer]

OK - let's try to make this easy - here is my quote - AGREE or DISAGREE ----

My original argument included APP and JMU and Montana and other top tier FCS teams (so I'm not just tooting the ASU horn) and that is I do honestly feel they would be at least in the middle of the pack of all the non-BCS FBS conferences and would on occasion be mid-tier in most major conferences other than the SEC

[DSUrocks07]

There is no question in my mind that the top teams on our level would compete in most conferences - APP, Richmond, W&M, Vill would be right in the middle of the sorry ACC, if not higher - Delaware, JMU and GSU in previous years -

qft

[soccerguy315]

Yeah, I know it's absolutely ridiculous to think you're on some sort of par with a team you beat. Just ridiculous. xlolxxlolxxlolx

Not only were we on par with Michigan in 2007... we were better than them.

People can make the argument that App would have won only 3/10, 2/10, 1/10, 0/10 (yes, someone said that xlolx). The fact is we played them once that season. We beat them 1 out of 1. Anything else is just guesswork and opinion.

Is the USA a better soccer team than Spain?

[Grrrrriz]

So, you'll be ok with me saying App is better than Montana even if Montana beats us on Saturday? You'll have no problem with me saying Montana got lucky and App is clearly the better team... Montana isn't on par with App State? You'd have no problem with that? Yeah, right.

We plays games for a reason... to decide these arguments of "who is better." If Montana wins they will be superior to Appalachian. If Appalachin wins they will be superior to Montana. Any fan coming on this message board saying the other team got lucky and their team is better... even though they lost... would be ridiculed. They'd be making the same argument you and others are makeing about App-Michigan. WE BEAT THEM. End of story.

Alright, then answer this: SINCE YOU GOT BEAT BY WOFFORD THAT YEAR, WAS WOFFORD BETTER?

Perhaps if Montana beat App or vise versa, it would be a fluke, but when it comes to the semi-finals, your argument doesn't hold water.

[ThompsonThe]

Michigan was #5 in the country when Appalachian beat them, so they were considered the Big 10's best.

[Grrrrriz]

Alright, then answer this: SINCE YOU GOT BEAT BY WOFFORD THAT YEAR, WAS WOFFORD BETTER?

Perhaps if Montana beat App or vise versa, it would be a fluke, but when it comes to the semi-finals, your argument doesn't hold water.

As well, by your logic...Mcneese is a better team than you this year. That is your logic, not mine.

[SpiderSafety75]

And the majority of posters are disagreeing with you. The top-tier programs in the FCS would be probably be in the lower third of those conferences, and closer to the bottom of the power conferences. Was UR as good as Duke this year? Yes. Were they a lot better? No. How did Duke do? Was JMU as good as Maryland? Close. And how did Maryland do this year?

The wins against the big boys are great. But they ARE the big boys - and App, Montana, Richmond, et al, are not. It's pretty much that simple.

Players are bigger and faster and better trained than they were when I played 30-plus years ago, but I played enough alumni games into my 30's and have kept close enough tabs on the game to know that our 'old Divsion 1' teams of the seventies were probably better than UR's championship team, and we were middle-of-the-pack and seldom beat a current BCS team.

The situations are similar, actually...even then, along with ECU and W&M, we were then a 'big fish in the small pond' that was the Southern Conference (ASU joined when I was a junior when Davidson dropped out). We lost most out-of-conference games (in those days, not many teams scheduled the total cupcakes like they do now. We were as close to cupcakes as teams would go, and UR didn't schedule anyone out-of-conference that was an automatic win.) I'm afraid the situation would be similar today. If it weren't, wouldn't ASU and others build bigger places and move up?

And those comments about 'they'd have to play at our place'? That's only worth a field goal. I don't think that would change things all that much. No one who's played 2 games at Ohio Stadium, for example, is going to be intimidated playing at ASU or Montana.

I-AA/FCS is the best thing to happen to schools like UR. Maybe not for JMU and ASU, but they can always move up (actually, I don't understand why they don't, especially ASU.)

I'd agree that a 'super conference' of FCS teams would fit just under all the BCS conferences according to the computer rankings, but that's a moot point, because if those 'super conference teams' were playing each other every week, they'd be hard-pressed to come up with the same sort of numbers!

[Grrrrriz]

And the majority of posters are disagreeing with you. The top-tier programs in the FCS would be probably be in the lower third of those conferences, and closer to the bottom of the power conferences. Was UR as good as Duke this year? Yes. Were they a lot better? No. How did Duke do? Was JMU as good as Maryland? Close. And how did Maryland do this year?

The wins against the big boys are great. But they ARE the big boys - and App, Montana, Richmond, et al, are not. It's pretty much that simple.

Players are bigger and faster and better trained than they were when I played 30-plus years ago, but I played enough alumni games into my 30's and have kept close enough tabs on the game to know that our 'old Divsion 1' teams of the seventies were probably better than UR's championship team, and we were middle-of-the-pack and seldom beat a current BCS team.

The situations are similar, actually...even then, along with ECU and W&M, we were then a 'big fish in the small pond' that was the Southern Conference (ASU joined when I was a junior when Davidson dropped out). We lost most out-of-conference games (in those days, not many teams scheduled the total cupcakes like they do now. We were as close to cupcakes as teams would go, and UR didn't schedule anyone out-of-conference that was an automatic win.) I'm afraid the situation would be similar today. If it weren't, wouldn't ASU and others build bigger places and move up?

And those comments about 'they'd have to play at our place'? That's only worth a field goal. I don't think that would change things all that much. No one who's played 2 games at Ohio Stadium, for example, is going to be intimidated playing at ASU or Montana.

I-AA/FBS is the best thing to happen to schools like UR. Maybe not for JMU and ASU, but they can always move up (actually, I don't understand why they don't, especially ASU.)

I'd agree that a 'super conference' of FCS teams would fit just under all the BCS conferences according to the computer rankings, but that's a moot point, because if those 'super conference teams' were playing each other every week, they'd be hard-pressed to come up with the same sort of numbers!

Good post.

[rfeng]

It's time for the CAA to move as a conference to FBS. If you think about it, every other region in the country has their non-BCS FBS league such as:

MAC- Midwest/Rust Belt

CUSA/Sun Belt- Southeast/Texas

MWC/WAC- West/West Coast

Still no east coast league though. I think that's part of the CAA's strength. They are the defacto east coast non BCS league (recruiting similar caliber regional athletes as the WAC, MAC, CUSA), but playing in FCS.

It looks like 4 or 5 schools could already make the jump, and I'm sure Buffalo, Temple and a few others would leave their conferences to join.I agree and would like to see a FBS for half the CAA teams and would expect half the teams in the CAA to remain at the FCS level.
I would like to see both managed by the CAA. They could use a new name for the FBS conference and manage both. Another advantage is to keep the basketball teams together. With FBS teams the Basketball Programs would see the added benefit of signing more skilled better players. Bringing UMass in as an all-sports member and Temple back would see the BB conference pass the A-10.

Another big advantage - facilities and scholarships could be increased incrementally with a spending cap.

[ThompsonThe]

If anyone is going to put together an FCS Super Conference, why not just go FBS instead? Just take the additional 22 scholarships so that you can compete with any FBS school. Additional revenue would pay for it.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

"I-AA/FBS is the best thing to happen to schools like UR. Maybe not for JMU and ASU, but they can always move up (actually, I don't understand why they don't, especially ASU.)"

It all depends on the conference in my mind - I have no desire to join some no-name FBS conference and play LA-Lafayette and Arkansas ST and North Texas and then if we had a really good year we would get to go to Tiddy Toilet Bowl Cleaner Bowl in Jackson, MS ----

I truly love the play-offs and all the excitement and the rivalries we are building with Richmond and JMU and McNeese and Montana plus the yearly group of SoCon teams ----

[wideright82]

hey did you guys hear App State beat Michigan at the Big House when they were ranked #5?




Just thought I'd let all of you know because I just learned about it about an hour ago and thought it was pretty indicative of how an FCS team would have performed in the Big 10 in 2007.

[SpiderSafety75]

That works for me, too, until the fans of the smaller schools have to listen to the 'fan base', 'stadium' and 'attendance' stuff (I use this term politely :)) from the 'bigger' FCS schools. :)

BTW, the Tiddy Toilet Bowl Cleaner Bowl was cancelled this year when Notre Dame and Michigan turned down their invitations.

[rfeng]

I would rather watch a higher level of play every week and there is no doubt the Sun Belt teams have better players across the board than any CAA team. The Sun Belt teams do award 85 scholarships and are building depth each year. Since the argument is how would a FCS team do vs a FBS team, my observation is any team in the CAA would have a losing record against any team in the Sun Belt if they played each other 12 times. (excluding Western Kentucky who is just making the jump to FBS)

[Tribe07]

I agree and would like to see a FBS for half the CAA teams and would expect half the teams in the CAA to remain at the FCS level.
I would like to see both managed by the CAA. They could use a new name for the FBS conference and manage both. Another advantage is to keep the basketball teams together. With FBS teams the Basketball Programs would see the added benefit of signing more skilled better players. Bringing UMass in as an all-sports member and Temple back would see the BB conference pass the A-10.

Another big advantage - facilities and scholarships could be increased incrementally with a spending cap.

William & Mary will never go FBS, and neither will the vast majority of CAA schools. The only teams who arguably should consider that leap are frankly, Montana and Appalachian State, IMHO.

[rfeng]

I am not sure how many of the current CAA teams would change, but soome would. With spending limits UMass would. Albany would probably join the CAA and hasn't Georgia State already stated they want to become a FBS program? How many CAA teams already have FBS facilities? I don't think we would have very much trouble finding 8 teams to play under the CAA Banner. There are many programs who would like to play at the FBS level and could do so if they could continue using their existing facilities and control their spending.

[ThompsonThe]

hey did you guys hear App State beat Michigan at the Big House when they were ranked #5?




Just thought I'd let all of you know because I just learned about it about an hour ago and thought it was pretty indicative of how an FCS team would have performed in the Big 10 in 2007.

I appreciate knowing that. So Appalachian beat Michigan....wow....must have missed that.

[ThompsonThe]

It always seemed that JMU wanted to go FBS, and that Delaware wasn't too far from wanting to go FBS.

[ChooChoo]

I am not sure how many of the current CAA teams would change, but soome would. With spending limits UMass would. Albany would probably join the CAA and hasn't Georgia State already stated they want to become a FBS program? How many CAA teams already have FBS facilities? I don't think we would have very much trouble finding 8 teams to play under the CAA Banner. There are many programs who would like to play at the FBS level and could do so if they could continue using their existing facilities and control their spending.
Here's what I'd do:
The CAA trades 4 of their teams to the A10 for 6 of theirs.
OUT
Northeastern
Hofstra
Drexel
UNCW

IN
UMass
URI
Fordham
Temple
Richmond
Charlotte

The A10 could send UNCW to the BigSouth and add Butler and I think they'd be just fine and happy with the deal.

CAA would then have 14 teams under their all-sports umbrella:
UMass, URI, Fordham, Temple, Delaware, Towson, GMU
JMU, Richmond, VCU, W&M, ODU, Charlotte, Georgia St.

Under the conference hierarchy you'd have 2 FB leagues, the CAA for teams going the FBS route and the Yankee Conference for the schools remaining FCS.
The CAA (9):
UMass
Temple
Delaware
JMU
ODU
Georgia St.
Charlotte to come
Army and Navy as affiliates.

Yankee (8):
Maine
UNH
URI
Fordham
Villanova
Towson
Richmond
W&M
This would give the best of both worlds for members with the desire to move up because you could keep AQ status, maintain rivalries, and provide opportunies for FB expansion for schools like GMU, VCU, and hopefully Charlotte.

[JMU Newbill]

OK .... lets start over and I'll try to make this more clear.


WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ALL MIGHTY AND POWERFUL ASU....


an FCS superconference would not compete against any of the middle to upper tier FBS conferences.

Is that plain enough?

Is that logical (outrageous) enough to appease the ASU fans?

[Mountaineer#96]

OK .... lets start over and I'll try to make this more clear.


WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ALL MIGHTY AND POWERFUL ASU....


an FCS superconference would not compete against any of the middle to upper tier FBS conferences.

Is that plain enough?

Is that logical (outrageous) enough to appease the ASU fans?

Nope......xnodx

[rfeng]

I think that (post 95) is a good start. Discussion among the Athletic Directors with the formation in 2011 gives the CAA time to organize and schedule.
Year 1 - Additional funding will come from scheduling a 12'th game against a FBS team for $$$$. ($400K)
Year 2 - Additional funding - add an bowl game against the Sun Belt 3'rd place team and play it at the Sun Belt School or at Army or Navy.
Year 3 - Additional funding - add an bowl game against the CUSA and play it at the CUSA School or at Army or Navy.
Add 4-5 scholarships each year. Keep incremental costs down.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

OK .... lets start over and I'll try to make this more clear.


WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ALL MIGHTY AND POWERFUL ASU....


an FCS superconference would not compete against any of the middle to upper tier FBS conferences.

Is that plain enough?

Is that logical (outrageous) enough to appease the ASU fans?


Again you are confusing just ASU fans and fans of FCS - I pull for every FCS when they play the FBS - and I think you are underselling our best programs but hey that's your opinion - no problems with me ----

[SpiderFan]

It was stupid of me to point out that a rematch of two teams wouldn't go the same way the first time? How is that stupid? The fact is Richmond capitalized on a Duke team that was underprepared, and likely overconfident. Yes, you play the game and move on, but to suggest single game victories somehow equates to long term success (like alot of you seem to do) is completely illogical.

Are you serious?! How could Duke have been underprepared--they were prepping all summer and that's a fact. I don't think they do win that game today. Why would they be overconfident?! Several of their players were there 2 years ago when we beat them...excuse me, shut them out.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

Are you serious?! How could Duke have been underprepared--they were prepping all summer and that's a fact. I don't think they do win that game today. Why would they be overconfident?! Several of their players were there 2 years ago when we beat them...excuse me, shut them out.

Dam Right!!!!

[Grrrrriz]

Are you serious?! How could Duke have been underprepared--they were prepping all summer and that's a fact. I don't think they do win that game today. Why would they be overconfident?! Several of their players were there 2 years ago when we beat them...excuse me, shut them out.

His point is still valid regardless of how you did against Duke. Duke is a bottom feeder. Duke sucks. I just wish they were as bad at basketball.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

His point is still valid regardless of how you did against Duke. Duke is a bottom feeder. Duke sucks. I just wish they were as bad at basketball.

Actually not this year - Duke finished 3-5 in the ACC tied with Wake Forest and ahead of NC State, Virginia and Maryland ----

[JMUNJ08]

Actually not this year - Duke finished 3-5 in the ACC tied with Wake Forest and ahead of NC State, Virginia and Maryland ----

The sun shines on an a** every once in a whilexwhistlex

[WVAPPmountaineer]

The sun shines on an a** every once in a whilexwhistlex

Plus the ACC basically sucks in football ---- Duke is actually getting better, some of the others have seen their best days at least for the next few years ----

[CollegeSportsInfo]

The only FBS school that makes clear sense to me is Montana. They'd be solid in the WAC or MWC. But would they finish in the top 5 in the Pac 10? Likely not.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Today, the House of Representatives passed a bill which, if enacted into law, would forbid promotion of a college football "national champion" unless that designation was earned through a playoff system. Big money will oppose it and it probably won't get enacted.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091209/D9CFVTR01.html

BUT . . . were the FBS to devise a playoff system to placate lawmakers (even, perhaps, excluding BCS schools), what will become of the FCS playoffs? Would not the FBS playoff winner become the "only" Division 1 champion? For that matter, would there even be an FCS, now that the basis for distinguishing between the two has disappeared? I feel badly for the non-FBS schools that are not in the BCS, but maybe it's best just to keep things the way they are.

[holycrossC]

add Montana to that attendance list

I thought Montana puts 25000 in the seats on Saturdays?

[nwFL Griz]

Today, the House of Representatives passed a bill which, if enacted into law, would forbid promotion of a college football "national champion" unless that designation was earned through a playoff system. Big money will oppose it and it probably won't get enacted.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091209/D9CFVTR01.html

BUT . . . were the FBS to devise a playoff system to placate lawmakers (even, perhaps, excluding BCS schools), what will become of the FCS playoffs? Would not the FBS playoff winner become the "only" Division 1 champion? For that matter, would there even be an FCS, now that the basis for distinguishing between the two has disappeared? I feel badly for the non-FBS schools that are not in the BCS, but maybe it's best just to keep things the way they are.

No, it's not best to just keep things the way they are. The only thing that would need to change is the name, back to 1-A and 1-AA or I-A and I-AA (however you like it). The difference always has been number of scholarships permitted, the playoff thing has always just been a bonus in my book.

[tribe_pride]

Today, the House of Representatives passed a bill which, if enacted into law, would forbid promotion of a college football "national champion" unless that designation was earned through a playoff system. Big money will oppose it and it probably won't get enacted.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091209/D9CFVTR01.html

BUT . . . were the FBS to devise a playoff system to placate lawmakers (even, perhaps, excluding BCS schools), what will become of the FCS playoffs? Would not the FBS playoff winner become the "only" Division 1 champion? For that matter, would there even be an FCS, now that the basis for distinguishing between the two has disappeared? I feel badly for the non-FBS schools that are not in the BCS, but maybe it's best just to keep things the way they are.

The full House didn't vote on it - it was just a subcommittee. That said, you are right that it will never become law (probably never get voted on in front of the full House).

It's best for the government to stay out of this mess. It's a mess but the government needs to stay out of that. They are not even forcing a playoff but just using the word "National Champion." That bill is a waste of everyone's time including mine because I am now responding to you.

[caribbeanhen]

how the mighty CAA has fallen - Towson, Maine, and ODU...xsmhxxsmhxxsmhx

Good luck to you in the playoffs

and UNH..... This year is your opportunity to win it all so don't choke xlolx

[LehighU11]

Today, let us celebrate the largest defeat in Penn State football's history to...none other than Lehigh 106-0 wayyyy back on 11/11/1889 http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2010/6/28/651622/penn-state-history-the-lehigh

[nwFL Griz]

Holy old thread, Batman!!