Patriot League AQ

[Grabholdofyosef]

I have been looking at a lot of the what if scenarios for the different conferences and the Patriot league caught my eye. It looks like if Lehigh wins out and Lafayette beats Colgate, Lehigh would tie for the best conference record and if head to head is the top tiebreaker, Lehigh would win the AQ with wins over Holy Cross and Lafayette. However, they would have a 5-6 record. Would they still go to the playoffs with a sub-.500 record and without 7 wins if they won the AQ? Is there some other rule in place to prevent this?

I know there is a lot that would have to happen for this scenario to play out, but I thought it was interesting that the Patriot League champion could habe a sub-.500 overall record and make the playoffs. Has somthing like this ever happend before in any confernce?

[UNHWildCats]

yes. 7 Div I wins is for at-large bids.

[Franks Tanks]

I have been looking at a lot of the what if scenarios for the different conferences and the Patriot league caught my eye. It looks like if Lehigh wins out and Lafayette beats Colgate, Lehigh would tie for the best conference record and if head to head is the top tiebreaker, Lehigh would win the AQ with wins over Holy Cross and Lafayette. However, they would have a 5-6 record. Would they still go to the playoffs with a sub-.500 record and without 7 wins if they won the AQ? Is there some other rule in place to prevent this?

I know there is a lot that would have to happen for this scenario to play out, but I thought it was interesting that the Patriot League champion could habe a sub-.500 overall record and make the playoffs. Has somthing like this ever happend before in any confernce?

Lehigh has two wins over a dreadful Bucknell and Georgetown. They have virtually no chance at winning out with Holy Cross, Fordham, and Lafayette still on the slate.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lafayette and Montana State, among others, have won their conferences at 6-5 and gone to the playoffs, but I don't believe a 5-6 team has ever won their conference and made the playoffs.

[Franks Tanks]

Lafayette and Montana State, among others, have won their conferences at 6-5 and gone to the playoffs, but I don't believe a 5-6 team has ever won their conference and made the playoffs.

The 94 Leopards won the PL with a 5-6 record, but this was before the PL auto-bid.

[Pard94]

I have been looking at a lot of the what if scenarios for the different conferences and the Patriot league caught my eye. It looks like if Lehigh wins out and Lafayette beats Colgate, Lehigh would tie for the best conference record and if head to head is the top tiebreaker, Lehigh would win the AQ with wins over Holy Cross and Lafayette. However, they would have a 5-6 record. Would they still go to the playoffs with a sub-.500 record and without 7 wins if they won the AQ? Is there some other rule in place to prevent this?

I know there is a lot that would have to happen for this scenario to play out, but I thought it was interesting that the Patriot League champion could habe a sub-.500 overall record and make the playoffs. Has somthing like this ever happend before in any confernce?

I could walk around my office this morning and put together a co-ed football squad whose chances of winning the league would only be slightly worse than Lehigh's.

[blueballs]

That's why they call it the "automatic qualifier..."xrulesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

I could walk around my office this morning and put together a co-ed football squad whose chances of winning the league would only be slightly worse than Lehigh's.

LOL - I just had a vision of Lehigh's D-line chanting, "One Mississippi, Two Mississippi . . . " then getting pancaked by Doris in payroll.

[Pards Rule]

The 94 Leopards won the PL with a 5-6 record, but this was before the PL auto-bid.

Yep - they started out 0-6 and then swept Patriot League with a stunning upset of Lehigh in the final game, 54-20!

[Pard94]

LOL - I just had a vision of Lehigh's D-line chanting, "One Mississippi, Two Mississippi . . . " then getting pancaked by Doris in payroll.

Doris is a beast! Don't mess with Doris.

[siuham]

Lehigh has two wins over a dreadful Bucknell and Georgetown. They have virtually no chance at winning out with Holy Cross, Fordham, and Lafayette still on the slate.

He was asking what if, not the chances of it actually occurring.

Down boy.

[Franks Tanks]

Can we please stop talking about Lehigh winning the league. I watched Lehigh-Colgate on Saturday because I wouldnt get the Lafayette game online and the Lehigh broadcast team talked the whole time about how they were still undefeated in the league etc. Even after the loss the whole post game show was about how Lehigh can still win the league. Please stop. Yes it is possible, but its also possible that a meteor can fall out of the sky and kill me but I dont spend my days worrying about it.

Lehigh has two victories and they have come over the two worst teams in the PL. Lehigh will not be favored in any of their 3 remaining games. They may pull an upset to finish with 3 wins, but thats about as far as it goes.

[Franks Tanks]

He was asking what if, not the chances of it actually occurring.

Down boy.

See above. I have heard this over and over. Not worth talking about Lehigh winning the PL-- wont happen.

[Pard94]

Can we please stop talking about Lehigh winning the league. I watched Lehigh-Colgate on Saturday because I wouldnt get the Lafayette game online and the Lehigh broadcast team talked the whole time about how they were still undefeated in the league etc. Even after the loss the whole post game show was about how Lehigh can still win the league. Please stop. Yes it is possible, but its also possible that a meteor can fall out of the sky and kill me but I dont spend my days worrying about it.

Lehigh has two victories and they have come over the two worst teams in the PL. Lehigh will not be favored in any of their 3 remaining games. They may pull an upset to finish with 3 wins, but thats about as far as it goes.

I for one am hoping that Lehigh wins the league. If they don't it apparently means the entire league is down and you know me...I'm always thinking about the good of the league first and foremost.
xnodx

[CFBfan]

See above. I have heard this over and over. Not worth talking about Lehigh winning the PL-- wont happen.

seems as though the Lafayette faithful are perpetuating this and giving it a life of it's own NOT the Lehigh fans!!

[Pard4Life]

I for one am hoping that Lehigh wins the league. If they don't it apparently means the entire league is down and you know me...I'm always thinking about the good of the league first and foremost.
xnodx

Since when did LFN start posting under Pard94? You need to choose a better password 94.

[Pard4Life]

seems as though the Lafayette faithful are perpetuating this and giving it a life of it's own NOT the Lehigh fans!!

Not true; I'm told that wfmz69 is hyping Lehigh beyond reason on the local sports news and highlights. They don't even mention the Pards.

[Pard4Life]

What are the rules if Colgate, HC, and the Pards all finish 5-1?

OOC and then a vote? I'm afraid that HC would easily win the vote.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What are the rules if Colgate, HC, and the Pards all finish 5-1?

OOC and then a vote? I'm afraid that HC would easily win the vote.

http://www.patriotleague.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/081308aad.html

Common opponents, then AD Committee vote.

[RichH2]

I know someone looked it up, the tiebreaker if all finish at 5-1. I will try to find it. It is in PL rules.

Why are we limiting the PL to 2, with a 3 way tie how about 2 at large bids. If the upsets continue next week as this past one it would not be inconceivable.xsmiley_wix

I will now set the eggtimer for the NEC guys to jump on mexnodx

[Franks Tanks]

Not true; I'm told that wfmz69 is hyping Lehigh beyond reason on the local sports news and highlights. They don't even mention the Pards.

You are correct. I live in the valley, and there is actuallty a bit of a buzz about the Leopards. People at work stopping me to talk about the team etc., but the local media is still talking up Lehigh. I understand they want to keep people interested, and they have a vested interest as they televise the games, but its quite egregious at this point.

[Franks Tanks]

I know someone looked it up, the tiebreaker if all finish at 5-1. I will try to find it. It is in PL rules.

Why are we limiting the PL to 2, with a 3 way tie how about 2 at large bids. If the upsets continue next week as this past one it would not be inconceivable.xsmiley_wix

I will now set the eggtimer for the NEC guys to jump on mexnodx

Albany lost to CCSU so at least Danefan will be quiet for a while. :)

CCSU's OOC wins are over Columbia and Lehigh-- two wins that look less impressive every week.

[RichH2]

While I realize it is a pipe dream, it is not out of the realm of possibility. Figure CAA for 4. rest of at large bids are a political crapshoot. Course if Lehigh wins outxwhistlex, all is right with the world againxlolx

real question who brought up LU winning out and what were they drinking?xeekx

[Pard94]

seems as though the Lafayette faithful are perpetuating this and giving it a life of it's own NOT the Lehigh fans!!

That's because Lafayette fans have a better grip on reality (among other things).

[CFBfan]

You are correct. I live in the valley, and there is actuallty a bit of a buzz about the Leopards. People at work stopping me to talk about the team etc., but the local media is still talking up Lehigh. I understand they want to keep people interested, and they have a vested interest as they televise the games, but its quite egregious at this point.

Got it! I have watched both (LU LC) this year and Lafayette is by FAR the better team, and that is from a very unbiased person, so if the Pards aren't getting their due credit the "shout on"!

[carney2]

I for one am hoping that Lehigh wins the league. If they don't it apparently means the entire league is down and you know me...I'm always thinking about the good of the league first and foremost.
xnodx

There's a Nobel Prize in this for you.

[Pard94]

There's a Nobel Prize in this for you.

People have won it for less. xsmiley_wix

[carney2]

Not true; I'm told that wfmz69 is hyping Lehigh beyond reason on the local sports news and highlights. They don't even mention the Pards.

In the Lehigh Valley Lehigh is the home team. Lafayette is from "out there somewhere."

[RichH2]

It is the Lehigh Valley after all, if you can get it changed to the Lafayette Valley then maybe Ch.69 will pay attention to the Pardsxwhistlex

It is surprising that LU gets so much more attention. Given Pards season, it would really make more senseto follow you guys. Besides I am sick of the same quotes every week from Coen. Leeme see some gems from Tavani xnodx

[Doc QB]

That's because Lafayette fans have a better grip on reality (among other things).

I think what 'Pard fans grab on their own time is material best suited for those other internet sites...

Let's keep this to football and the reality that HC, Colgate, and the Pards are best in conf...and I was not impressed with the 'Gate. HC and Pards get my playoff vote for best representative.

[rcny46]

Doris is a beast! Don't mess with Doris.


Just "slightly" off topic,but I never realized you lived in Weare.That's only a stone's throw from my neck of the woods.Best of luck to LC the rest of the way.

[Pard94]

Just "slightly" off topic,but I never realized you lived in Weare.That's only a stone's throw from my neck of the woods.Best of luck to LC the rest of the way.

Indeed I do. God's Country as they say. Thanks for the well-wishes. Our final three games are nothing short of a meat grinder. That being said, I am hoping that we make it to the post season and end up playing the Wildcats in lovely Durham. I would be there with my leopard-spotted bells on!

Best of luck to UNH as well. A quality FCS program right in the proverbial back yard.

[RichH2]

We do agree on at least that, New Hampshire is the real God's country . Would love to return again to the Ossippee area.

[Pard4Life]

Indeed I do. God's Country as they say. Thanks for the well-wishes. Our final three games are nothing short of a meat grinder. That being said, I am hoping that we make it to the post season and end up playing the Wildcats in lovely Durham. I would be there with my leopard-spotted bells on!

Best of luck to UNH as well. A quality FCS program right in the proverbial back yard.

I pray we don't end up in Durham... that would be a brutal trek.

[Pard94]

We do agree on at least that, New Hampshire is the real God's country . Would love to return again to the Ossippee area.

You come back to NH and I will buy you a welcome back hard cider...just to show there are no hard feelings.

[Pard94]

I pray we don't end up in Durham... that would be a brutal trek.

Nahh...it's only about 45 minutes. 101 East to 125 to 155. Pretty drive too!

[RichH2]

Thanks.They still sell the gallons of hard cider in the glass bottles? My Dad used to pick up the cider at the mill over in Framingham in a metal milk can and then bottle them at home. State stopped that as unsanitary , couldn't even bring our own . Had to buy the bottles then they would fill them. Last time I went thru in 97 the cider came in plastic jugs, not the same somehow.

[Pards Rule]

You come back to NH and I will buy you a welcome back hard cider...just to show there are no hard feelings.

If the Pards get the AQ can I sleep in your barn 94? I'm not doing an up and back in one day! Yes I have been to NH more than a few times and have excellent memory of being in Manchester the night the Sox won the 7th game vs. the Yanks in 2004. Still pissed I never "met" the Old Man before his demise in May 2003. I really think a trip up there over Thanksgiving weekend would be fine! But first - Colgate, HC & Lehigh.

[Pard94]

If the Pards get the AQ can I sleep in your barn 94? I'm not doing an up and back in one day! Yes I have been to NH more than a few times and have excellent memory of being in Manchester the night the Sox won the 7th game vs. the Yanks in 2004. Still pissed I never "met" the Old Man before his demise in May 2003. I really think a trip up there over Thanksgiving weekend would be fine! But first - Colgate, HC & Lehigh.

Thanksgiving is the absolute best time for a visit to NH. The foliage is long gone but there are few states in the union that feel more "Thankgivingey" than NH. Sleeeping in the barn would be awful cold though.

[aceinthehole]

Albany lost to CCSU so at least Danefan will be quiet for a while. :)

CCSU's OOC wins are over Columbia and Lehigh-- two wins that look less impressive every week.

And Lafayette's OOC wins are all Ivy wins - not very impressive either. xcoffeex

[Franks Tanks]

And Lafayette's OOC wins are all Ivy wins - not very impressive either. xcoffeex

Harvard and Penn are much better than Lehigh and Columbia. Harvard beat Lehigh and will probably win the Ivy league again. They are 5-2.

A Fordham team that is currently winless in the PL destroyed a Bryant team that you barely beat. Give it up. Your resume is not better than Holy Cross or Lafayette's at this point.

[aceinthehole]

Harvard and Penn are much better than Lehigh and Columbia. Harvard beat Lehigh and will probably win the Ivy league again. They are 5-2.

A Fordham team that [lost to Columbia] is currently winless in the PL destroyed a Bryant team that you barely beat. Give it up. Your resume is not better than Holy Cross or Lafayette's at this point.

So its OK for PL teams to prop up their schedule based on conference and Ivy foes, right?

And don't worry, Lehigh still has a chance to ruin someone's season in the PL, and I'm just waiting xwhistlex

[Franks Tanks]

So its OK for PL teams to prop up their schedule based on conference and Ivy foes, right?

And don't worry, Lehigh still has a chance to ruin someone's season in the PL, and I'm just waiting xwhistlex

Fordham 35 Bryant 7

CCSU 24 Bryant 23

Yes Fordham lost to Columbia-- they lost to everyone else in the PL as well..whats your point. I know
CCSU beat Albany-- do any of the other teams you beat have a winning record?

Also your agruement is laughable. You constanly moan that the Ivies and the PL is overrated, but you try to point to wins over two of the worst teams in those conferences as quality wins. Makes no sense.

Also if you beat a quality Ivy or Patriot league team it would be a different conversation. If you beat Colgate or Harvard or Brown or Penn, then I would listen to what you are saying.

Have fun playing Butler or Dayton in the gridiron classic.

[aceinthehole]

Don't take my word for it, just look at the numbers ... the ranking and SOS of the top teams in the PL and NEC are nearly the same.

SAGARIN SCHEDL
211. Albany (44.09)
214. Lafayette (43.42)
218. CCSU (42.96)
224. Holy Cross (41.01)
228. Colgate (39.80)

SAGARIN RATING
141. Lafayette (56.19)
150. Holy Cross (54.54)
155. CCSU (53.94)
157. Albany (52.98)
163. Colgate (51.43)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc09.htm

[Go...gate]

Nahh...it's only about 45 minutes. 101 East to 125 to 155. Pretty drive too!

Damn nice part of the world up there....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Since you're a numbers guy ace:

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/11/02/11-2-2009-gridiron-power-index-gpi-richm-1?blog=5

9. Patriot League (52.57)
25. Holy Cross (23.38)
26T. Lafayette (25.25)
39T. Colgate (33.25)
72. Fordham (55.75)
90. Lehigh (66.50)
110. Bucknell (78.63)
121. Georgetown (85.25)

13. Northeast Conference (65.99)
43. Central Conn (35.50)
48T. Albany NY (40.00)
83. Monmouth NJ (62.63)
88. Bryant (64.63)
89. Wagner (66.38)
112. St Francis PA (79.88)
113. Robert Morris (80.38)
115. Duquesne (81.50)
118. Sacred Heart (83.00)

According to the GPI, our fourth-place team would wax almost 80% of your conference... xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Don't take my word for it, just look at the numbers ... the ranking and SOS of the top teams in the PL and NEC are nearly the same.

SAGARIN SCHEDL
211. Albany (44.09)
214. Lafayette (43.42)
218. CCSU (42.96)
224. Holy Cross (41.01)
228. Colgate (39.80)

SAGARIN RATING
141. Lafayette (56.19)
150. Holy Cross (54.54)
155. CCSU (53.94)
157. Albany (52.98)
163. Colgate (51.43)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc09.htm

Ok-- well Lafayette still has to play Holy Cross and Colgate so that will improve the SOS for all 3 teams. CCSU and Albany have some of the worst teams in FCS left on their respective schedules so it will change quite a bit over the last 3 weeks I suspect.

[aceinthehole]

Since you're a numbers guy ace:

According to the GPI, our fourth-place team would wax almost 80% of your conference... xlolx

Clearly you are not.

Fordham's "score" of 55.75 is well withing range of Monmouth (62.63), Bryant (64.63), and Wagner (66.38). And I don't know this term "wax" which you so brazenly used; it's not supported by any facts I can see.

Furthermore, we are comparing specific teams to each other. The fact remains unchanged that there is nearly no difference in the resumes of the 5 teams I cited in my previous post.

You PL guys can cry all you like, but everyone else here has already figured out that the top teams of the NEC have moved well past any casual conversation with the best the PL has to offer.

Since the 2005 season, Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are a combined 7-4 vs PL opponents. :)

NEC-3 vs. PL
3-1 vs Fordham
2-1 vs Lehigh
2-2 vs Colgate

(In those 5 year, each one of these teams won the PL conference at least once)

[Franks Tanks]

Clearly you are not.

Fordham's "score" of 55.75 is well withing range of Monmouth (62.63), Bryant (64.63), and Wagner (66.38). And I don't know this term "wax" which you so brazenly used; it's not supported by any facts I can see.

Furthermore, we are comparing specific teams to each other. The fact remains unchanged that there is nearly no difference in the resumes of the 5 teams I cited in my previous post.

You PL guys can cry all you like, but everyone else here has already figured out that the top teams of the NEC have moved well past any casual conversation with the best the PL has to offer.

Since the 2005 season, Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are a combined 7-3 vs PL opponents. :)

NEC-3 vs. PL
3-1 vs Fordham
2-1 vs Lehigh
2-1 vs Colgate

(In those 5 year, each one of these teams won the PL conference at least once)


Well past??? That is ridicilious.

CCSU beat Albany, two Ivy and PL cellar dwellers and a bunch of lower teir NEC teams.

You can make the arguement that the top teams in the NEC and the top of the PL is simialr, but well past--c'mon..you have no logical points to support this.

In case you didnt notice Colgate BEAT Monmouth this year. Colgate already lost to Holy Cross so Colgate wont be winning the PL championship this year either. (most likely)

[joecooll6]

The NEC vs. Patriot League debate is a strange one to me. There are so many other teams that are in the hunt for the last two at large bids, comparing PL teams with NEC teams leaves a lot of the equation out.

[joecooll6]

Fordham 35 Bryant 7

CCSU 24 Bryant 23

Yes Fordham lost to Columbia-- they lost to everyone else in the PL as well..whats your point. I know
CCSU beat Albany-- do any of the other teams you beat have a winning record?

Also your agruement is laughable. You constanly moan that the Ivies and the PL is overrated, but you try to point to wins over two of the worst teams in those conferences as quality wins. Makes no sense.

Also if you beat a quality Ivy or Patriot league team it would be a different conversation. If you beat Colgate or Harvard or Brown or Penn, then I would listen to what you are saying.

Have fun playing Butler or Dayton in the gridiron classic.

Dont forget the mighty Drake Bulldogs have a say in this as well!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

The NEC vs. Patriot League debate is a strange one to me. There are so many other teams that are in the hunt for the last two at large bids, comparing PL teams with NEC teams leaves a lot of the equation out.

Thank you!!!!

[Franks Tanks]

The NEC vs. Patriot League debate is a strange one to me. There are so many other teams that are in the hunt for the last two at large bids, comparing PL teams with NEC teams leaves a lot of the equation out.

I am not debating this to prove who should get an at large bid--that is a different discussion

[Go...gate]

The NEC vs. Patriot League debate is a strange one to me. There are so many other teams that are in the hunt for the last two at large bids, comparing PL teams with NEC teams leaves a lot of the equation out.

This all becomes moot next year, anyway. The PL earned its autobid, has proved (on the field of play) that it deserves the autobid on numerous occasions, and still deserves it. The NEC gets its chance in 2010. Why bitch and whine at us?

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Like I thought.. all the mod's here have hidden agenda's and make up infractions against members whom they don't like. You're all a bunch of f u c king cowards. All you're doing is causing everyone to go over to CHAMPIONSHIPSUBDIVISION.COM and never come back to this pathetic site. It is truly amazing that so many immature cowards subjectively moderate this place without any accountability or repercussions for their actions. Go **** yourselves **** stains!!!

[joecooll6]

I think every conference that wants to, regardless of quality, deserves to send its champion to the playoffs via an auto bid. That includes the Patriot League, NEC and even the Pioneer League. However, you have to earn an at large bid if you don't get an auto bid. For the auto bid, you are being compared only to the teams in your conference, for an at large bid, you are being compared to teams all across the country, and you have to prove you belong in the conversation.

Do I think the NEC, Big South, and Pio League should have an auto bid? Yes. But none of them do this year, so they have to earn it by being compared to the rest of the country.

[Pard94]

Damn nice part of the world up there....

Thanks Gate. We like it! Ask me again in February though when the 4 feet of snow on the ground shows no sign of melting. Of course, I'm talking to a Colgate guy so I don't need to tell you about never ending snow.

[Pard94]

Clearly you are not.

Fordham's "score" of 55.75 is well withing range of Monmouth (62.63), Bryant (64.63), and Wagner (66.38). And I don't know this term "wax" which you so brazenly used; it's not supported by any facts I can see.

Furthermore, we are comparing specific teams to each other. The fact remains unchanged that there is nearly no difference in the resumes of the 5 teams I cited in my previous post.

You PL guys can cry all you like, but everyone else here has already figured out that the top teams of the NEC have moved well past any casual conversation with the best the PL has to offer.

Since the 2005 season, Albany, CCSU, and Monmouth are a combined 7-4 vs PL opponents. :)

NEC-3 vs. PL
3-1 vs Fordham
2-1 vs Lehigh
2-2 vs Colgate

(In those 5 year, each one of these teams won the PL conference at least once)

What's the saying...there are three kinds of lies. Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics. I don't know whose league is better or how each NEC team would stack up against each PL team. I'll tell you this though. I think the NEC supporters on this board have taken the crown away from the PL as League with the Biggest Inferiority Complex. Why else would these guys stumble into every PL based thread and espouse their supposed superiority unsolicited. Fact of the matter is we have the autobid...NEC doesn't. Next year they'll have an autobid at which point they can stop yapping. I think we all look forward to that day if for that reason alone.

[LU73]

I think every conference that wants to, regardless of quality, deserves to send its champion to the playoffs via an auto bid. That includes the Patriot League, NEC and even the Pioneer League. However, you have to earn an at large bid if you don't get an auto bid. For the auto bid, you are being compared only to the teams in your conference, for an at large bid, you are being compared to teams all across the country, and you have to prove you belong in the conversation.

Do I think the NEC, Big South, and Pio League should have an auto bid? Yes. But none of them do this year, so they have to earn it by being compared to the rest of the country.

I agree. The goal of the playoffs need not seek "the best 16 teams in the country". All leagues of the required size should have a representative. The remaining at large selections are compared to all teams across the country. This process will give all teams an opportunity and will include the team capable of advancing through the playoffs and emerging as national champion.