Lehigh at Colgate - Game Thread

[TheValleyRaider]

We're less than 2 1/2 hours from kickoff at the welcome sight of Andy Kerr Stadium in Hamilton, NY

Lehigh Mountain Hawks, 2-5 (2-0)
at
Colgate Raiders, 7-1 (2-1)

Last Time Out
Lehigh - W 35-16 at Bucknell
Colgate - L 42-28 at Holy Cross

Coaches
Lehigh - Andy Coen, 4th Season, 18-22
Colgate - Dick Biddle, 14th Season, 111-50

All-Time Series: Colgate 26-19-2
Streak: Colgate, 2 Wins
Last Meeting: Colgate 34-33 in Bethlehem

Media Links from GoColgateRaiders.com:

Audio from TeamLine:
http://www.teamline.cc/teampage?teamcode=2007

Live Stats from SideArm Stats:
http://www.sidearmstats.com/colgate/football/

Video from Colgate All-Access:
http://www.gocolgateraiders.com/showcase/#liveevents

Next Weekend
Lehigh vs Holy Cross
Colgate at Lafayette

Let's Go 'Gate!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just got this tweet from Lehighsports.com: Football: Currently sustained winds at 27 MPH out of the NNW at Andy Kerr Stadium, gusting over 40 mph. It's cloudy here at the moment, warm.

Going to be a fun one. Wet and windy, but fun.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Almost kickoff. This really should be a pretty interesting game especially with the weather conditions. Go Hawks!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Umm, they're deffinitely having some technical difficulties in Hamilton.

[TheValleyRaider]

Umm, they're deffinitely having some technical difficulties in Hamilton.

How can you tell, nothing's started yet xconfusedx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Has the game started with the broadcast being on a delay?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...aaaaaaaaaaaaaand here comes the rain. Pouring now. Wow. Wind blowing it sideways.

From the game, from Lehigh Sports. Are you ready for some mud?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Game starts at 1PM.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How can you tell, nothing's started yet xconfusedx

I thought kickoff was scheduled for 12:35/40.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Game starts at 1PM.

ok

[TheValleyRaider]

No changes to the starting lineup for Colgate according to Game Notes

-Nate Eachus is currently 18th in Colgate history with 1,532 rushing yards, 208 yards from 17th
-Jordan McCord is 138 rushing yards from becoming the 28th player in school history to break the 1,000 yard mark for his career

[LawDutch]

Is this game on Time Warner?

[TheValleyRaider]

Is this game on Time Warner?

I think so. I think it's the Lehigh broadcast being played on TW26, though if you're not in CNY you probably won't get it

Well, just the regular TimeWarner production

[TheValleyRaider]

Video is up and the opening kickoff is next! :)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

WMFZ 69 has a problem, not showing the game yet. Had to swtich to FCS Atlantic, which is.

[LeopardFan04]

Is the game on WFMZ? Mine is showing some other football show right now...

[LeopardFan04]

WMFZ 69 has a problem, not showing the game yet. Had to swtich to FCS Atlantic, which is.


Gotcha...I'll keep flipping back during LC/BU commercials to check...

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate wins the toss and chooses to recieve

Randazza's kick is apparently a touchback. 1st and 10 Raiders at the 20

Lehigh 0
Colgate 0
15:00 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate can only manage a 3 and out to start the game. Lawler in to punt. The kick goes into the wind, and hangs up, fair caught at the Colgate 45. 1st and 10 Hawks

0-0
14:05 1st

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Good start for the Lehigh "D". Offense in very good field position.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate defense comes up big after Lehigh had 1st and Goal. 34 yard attempt is up and GOOD

3-0 Lehigh
11:04 1st

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Peery 35 yard FG... First Career FG... GOOD! LU 3 CU 0

[LeopardFan04]

It was just joined in progress on WFMZ...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh drives stalls, ends up with 3 points. Scoring in the redzone has been a huge problem all year.

3-0 Lehigh 11:04 1Q

[TheValleyRaider]

Rendazza's kickoff is returned to the 20. 1st and 10 Raiders

3-0 Lehigh
10:57 1st

First play, Sullivan takes off, but he FUMBLES! Lehigh recovers at the 30. 1st and 10 Hawks

3-0 Lehigh
10:49 1st

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh recovers a fumble at the Colgate 30! They need to score a TD!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Looks like the game is back on WFMZ.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

TD on 3rd-and-10! Craig Zurn, off a soft floater on the left side!

XP Good!

Lehigh 10, Colgate 0!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Lehigh!!! Great job by the oline and Clark!!

10-0 Lehigh 8:05 1Q

[TheValleyRaider]

Clark finds his man Zurn, TOUCHDOWN. PAT is up and GOOD, Lehigh off to a big start

10-0 Lehigh
8:05 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Rendazza's kick is out of the endzone again. Touchback, ball to the 20. 1st and 10 Raiders

10-0 Lehigh
8:05 1st

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Colgate on a 46 yard pass

10-7 Lehigh, 5:32 1Q

[TheValleyRaider]

Sullivan finds Schademan open over the middle, and he's in! 46 yards for the TOUCHDOWN! Colborne's PAT is up and GOOD!

10-7 Lehigh
5:32 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Kickoff from Colborne is held in the wind, taken at the 27, returned to the 37. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

10-7 Lehigh
5:26 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh gets some yards into Colgate territory, but the defense holds. Lehigh pooch punts, and it's downed inside the 10. 1st and 10 Raiders

10-7 Lehigh
3:18 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

McCord gets some tough runs to move Colgate away from their end zone a bit. Lehigh takes a TimeOut with 2nd down coming

10-7 Lehigh
1:24 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate moves the ball to midfield as the clock expires

Lehigh 10
Colgate 7
End 1st

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Colgate looks like they're starting to get their running legs going. Lehigh should start to worry some at this point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh "D" "off balance". 3rd-and-2, Colgate inside the 10. Lehigh "D" needs to adjust.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh "D" holds, now 4th and 1...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

McCord gets it. 1st and goal.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate drives inside the 10, and it'll be 4th and 2. Biddle decides to go for it, and McCord gets it down to the 6, 1st down Raiders! The drive continues

10-7 Lehigh
11:30 1st

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Colgate!

Lehigh's offense better go down and respond or this might be the end of the line.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

TD Simonds, nice pass from Sullivan to Simonds in pitch-and-catch on right side. XP good

CU 14, LU 10, early 2nd

[TheValleyRaider]

Sullivan rolls out, Simonds, TOUCHDOWN!! Colborne's PAT is up and GOOD!!

14-10 Colgate
11:06 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Colborne's kickoff is deep and out of the back of the end zone, touchback. Ball to the 20, 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

14-10 Colgate
11:06 2nd

[van]

Lehigh offense is in trouble, Clark looks like he did early in the year. Can't find the open recevier, continues to throw into coverage when he does have someone open.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh better stop Colgate on this drive or it's lights out.

[TheValleyRaider]

Defense does a good job, 3 and out for Lehigh. The kick rolls out of bounds at the Colgate 43. 1st and 10 Raiders

14-10 Colgate
9:37 2nd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Colgate! Well there's always Lafayette. This one might get ugly.

[TheValleyRaider]

Sullivan, with time, downfield for Simonds, YES! TOUCHDOWN!!! 48 yards for the score! PAT is up and GOOD!!!

21-10 Colgate
8:26 2nd

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Simonds wide open on play action. TD Colgate, XP good

Colgate 21 Lehigh 10 mid-2nd

Lehigh needs to score here. Period.

[TheValleyRaider]

Kickoff from Colborne is taken just at the goalline by Kennedy, and he gets a nice return up to the 34. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

21-10 Colgate
8:18 2nd

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another 3-and-out. Wait! Fake punt! Direct snap to Cohen, they get the 1st down!

[TheValleyRaider]

Defense does it again, Lehigh goes 3 and out. The punt is a FAKE, run by Cohen and he picks up the first down to midfield. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks, the drive continues

21-10 Colgate
5:47 2nd

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh has a 2nd and 4 upcoming, and they'll take the 2nd TimeOut to talk it over

21-10 Colgate
5:00 2nd

[RichH2]

Getting very ugly, Clark shaky again, wrs getting open he is not seeing them

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate, with the aid of a penalty, forces the punt. The kick hits at the 22, rolls out of bounds at the 14. 1st and 10 Raiders

21-10 Colgate
1:23 2nd

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate picks up 6 yards on a pair of runs, Lehigh takes their last TimeOut

21-10 Colgate
0:35 2nd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Getting very ugly, Clark shaky again, wrs getting open he is not seeing them

He has no pocket presence. He doesn't know when to get rid of the ball or check down to other wr's. Although given the QB development over the last few years it's really hard to put the blame on him.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate runs on 3rd down, which will let the clock expire

Lehigh 10
Colgate 21
Halftime

[TheValleyRaider]

Good first half overall for Colgate. Didn't get down on themselves after a poor start and have since taken control of the game for the timebeing. Offense is doing a good job with the run game, really just McCord today. Eachus has no carries today, and has only been in as a blocking back for a few plays. Very interesting, hopefully he's not hurt again

Defense has looked strong overall. Lehigh has gotten some traction with the run game, if they stick with it they could make this game interesting. Nice to see them getting pressure on the QB, which they couldn't remotely do against Dom and HC

[TheValleyRaider]

Getting set for the 2nd half. Colgate will be kicking off

Colborne's kick is into the wind, returned out to the 32. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

21-10 Colgate
14:51 3rd

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh only goes 3 and out. The punt is fielded by Simonds inside the 30, returned to the 29. 1st and 10 Raiders

21-10 Colgate
13:44 3rd

[TheValleyRaider]

4th down coming for Colgate at the 24, and Sullivan's pass is knocked away, TURNOVER ON DOWNS. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

21-10 Colgate
8:21 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Lehigh!! Flynn on a 44 yard td reception! If nothing else that was a nice route and pass.

Now let's see what the defense can do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mr. No Pocket Presence just connected on a 45 yard TD Pass! Beautiful streak to Flynn and they're not going to get 'im!

XP Good!

WE HAVE A GAME!!!!!!

Colgate 21 Lehigh 17, mid-3rd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Mr. No Pocket Presence just connected on a 45 yard TD Pass! Beautiful streak to Flynn and they're not going to get 'im!

XP Good!

WE HAVE A GAME!!!!!!

Colgate 21 Lehigh 17, mid-3rd

That was good protection and Flynn was the primary receiver on that play.

[TheValleyRaider]

Big pass from Clark, 45 yards for the TOUCHDOWN to Flynn. PAT is up and GOOD, this one got close in a hurry

21-17 Colgate
4:45 3rd

[TheValleyRaider]

Good gravy my broadcast is way behind yours xeekx

[van]

Owl is correct, I could have thrown that pass.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh first down at the Colgate 29. C'mmon guys! I thought they were done but they've shown a lot of fight here.

[van]

Short punt and great return by fearless Cribbs. Hope Colgate does not wake up on offense.

[van]

Clark % not great, but he is taking care of the ball. We would have a better record if we did that every week.

[TheValleyRaider]

Switching to radio only because the video keeps stopping, and it's about 5 minutes behind

[TheValleyRaider]

3rd down coming deep in Colgate territory, Lehigh takes their 1st TimeOut

21-17 Colgate
Late 3rd

[van]

Lehigh broadcast is free today!

[TheValleyRaider]

Ball knocked away on a 3rd down pass, 25 yard FG attempt coming. The kick is up and GOOD

21-20 Colgate
1:04 3rd

[Lehigh Football Nation]

29 yard FG GOOD, Colgate 21 Lehigh 20, late 3rd!

Come on Lehigh!

[van]

Well I spoke too soon, Clark makes poor decision and almost tosses his first INT of the day, Colgate defender drops ball. Whew! FG good, 21-20 and just a little over a quarter to play.

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh broadcast is free today!

Awesome. Thanks xthumbsupx

Kickoff from Lehigh is returned to the 32. 1st and 10 Raiders

21-20 Colgate
0:57 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh gets 3

21-20 Colgate 1:04 3Q

I believe Coen is 1-13 in games decided by 10 points or less. These close games have just been a nightmere. Maybe a little holloween mojo changes that.

[TheValleyRaider]

Good run from McCord to set up a 3rd and 2 at the 40 as the clock expires

Lehigh 20
Colgate 21
End 3rd

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh gets 3

21-20 Colgate 1:04 3Q

I believe Coen is 1-13 in games decided by 10 points or less. These close games have just been a nightmere. Maybe a little holloween mojo changes that.

Holy cow, I hope you're right. Lidge, do your stuff!!!

[van]

Can the D stop Colgate 3 times in a row?

[hawkineer]

Can the D stop Colgate 3 times in a row?

Nope!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Great drive by Colgate. That was a thing of beauty. Colgate's FG unit must be really bad. Botched snap on the XP

27-20 Colgate

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate drive stalls, 4th and 5 at the 20. Sullivan to throw, fade to Simonds, TOUCHDOWN!!!! Botched snap on the PAT, NO GOOD

28-20 Colgate
11:19 4th

[van]

Well, at least they missed the PAT and we have a chance to tie!

[TheValleyRaider]

Colborne's kickoff taken at the 9 by Kennedy, returned to the 32. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

28-20 Colgate
11:11 4th

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate defense comes up with the midfield stop, Lehigh will punt. High kick, bounces, downed by Lehigh at the 25. 1st and 10 Raiders

27-20 Colgate
8:55 4th

[van]

Defense looks worn out now, game maybe over.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh has to stop them on this 3rd and 9.

[van]

We've seen that play out all year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

OOOOHH So close to the INT. Colgate will punt - can Cribbs make something happen??????

[van]

D steps up, great stop!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Big 3rd down stop. Can Lehigh's offense finally put together meaningful drive?

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate stalls at midfield. Lawler will have to punt it away, but with the wind. The kick is taken by Cribbs at the 18, returned to the 30. 1st and 10 Mountain Hawks

27-20 Colgate
5:35 4th

[van]

One last chance for the offense!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There were 2 Lehigh guys to block #7 for Colgate and no one touched him.

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh facing 4th and 12 at midfield. They take TimeOut #1 to make a decision

27-20 Colgate
2:18 4th

[van]

Yeah, and Drwal was wide open on the prior play when Clark threw the ball at his feet.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Owell unless Colgate scores here it will be yet another 10 point or less loss for Lehigh. Just amazing.....

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh lines up to make a play. Clark throws, too high! Incomplete, TURNOVER ON DOWNS! 1st and 10 Raiders at the Lehigh 49!

27-20 Colgate
2:10 4th

[TheValleyRaider]

Lehigh takes their last TimeOut, 2nd down coming

27-20 Colgate
2:04 4th

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

First down game over....

Well the 3rd losing season for Coen in 4 years. Hopefully this whole thing is blown up after the year.

[hawkineer]

Yeah! A moral victory. After watching this, it appears that HC is the class of the league

[RichH2]

Some real good throws by Clark but more misses. This week wrs getting open doesn't see some misses others. had Drwal wide open bad throw. Last pass overthrew

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate just kneels it out, another win for the Raiders!

Lehigh 20
Colgate 27
Final

[RichH2]

Another loss by a TD or less to add to his resume

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This game was lost in the 2nd quarter when the "D" gave up those three scores in a row. Three blown coverages on big plays. But, credit to Colgate. Simonds is an NFL player. Sullivan is a damned good QB. And Colgate does what Colgate does well.

That pass defense by Idah tp end the game was an NFL play, simply awesome.

Again, congrats to Colgate.

[LUEngr28]

Need to clean out the LU coaching staff top to bottom. Where's the mental toughness that this program is noted for? We owe it to the kids that are here and those that intend to come to move on from the Coen era. Sterrett, your move.

[ngineer]

Another 'winnable' game down the drain. Colgate deserved to win because they made WAY fewer mistakes. The secondary--especially Kennedy and Veniero were wretched today. Between getting burnt, blowing coverage or lousy tackling. The inability to score TDs when inside Colgate's 10 was also a killer. The last drive--We moved the ball 25 yards with runs, then on first and 10 at CU 45 we drop back for a deep pass and get sacked! WTF. Several times we had all three wr's running deep and no one breaking off across the middle. Clark under pressure had no one to throw to. Overall, not very good tackling..McCord is a strong runner and kept his feet churning.
I am friggin tiired of losing by one score. The talent is there, but we're missing toughness quotient. Lots of 'execution' problems, which to me means either lack of preparation or lack of focus.
It's been 23 years since Lehigh had three straight losing seasons (1984-86) when the Engineers went 5-6 each season. We have to run the table to finish 5-6, now. Will be very interesting to see how this effects the team, mentally, with Holy Cross coming to town next week. The only thing I'm looking forward to for next week are the clams.xsmhx

[RichH2]

Gate is no doubt a better team than we are . Now. mental toughness ,as noted by 28, is lacking.
poor pass coverage in 2nd period partially us and more Gate ability. Boils down to not knowing how to win.
Getting sick of looking back last 3 years and counting close losses, now 4 more for this year.

[ngineer]

Gate is no doubt a better team than we are . Now. mental toughness ,as noted by 28, is lacking.
poor pass coverage in 2nd period partially us and more Gate ability. Boils down to not knowing how to win.
Getting sick of looking back last 3 years and counting close losses, now 4 more for this year.

I agree Colgate is the better team, right now. But, to take the topic from another thread...If you placed Biddle with Lehigh's team, who do you think wins not only this game, but several others this year? Coen is a very nice guy, but his constant 'mantra' of lack of execution falls hollow by now. There is a reason the execution is lacking, and it's not talent. I don't see these guys improving, i.e. being 'coached up'. As I've said before, our QBs seem to regress. We don't have a QB coach. Despite Clark's better numbers, he had some very lousy passes today that were mechanics than weather...several open receives with balls thrown either too low or too high, which if were on the money were either TDs or big gains.

[RichH2]

On Clark, Yup, kid is lost again. Any player should improve each year . Our qbs do not.

Biddle our HC , we win 90% of those close games rather than 1 for 13 or 14. I've lost count

[Digby]

If the team wins two more games, one must wonder if there will just be some staff changes instead of wholesale change. There are still quite a few alumni who care only about the last game. The Yale debacle cannot be forgotten.

[bulldog10jw]

The Yale debacle cannot be forgotten.

I certainly haven't forgotten it. ;)

[RichH2]

Why just recall one debacle, we have lots of them over the last 4 years

[Digby]

The biggest debacle, an extended bamboozlement, was when fans sought the ouster of Lembo.
I kind of like 9 wins per year. Maybe I am missing the big picture or something?

[RichH2]

Aw come on Digby. True ,fans and alumni frustration built up towards end of Pete's time at LU. Dont blame him for leaving. But do not forget frustration was real. Too many times came right to the playofss and he startedcoaching not to lose rather than to win. He was also a HC in training better at it than Andy and likely he hired better staff. The expectations were for playoffs and Championship run. We were winning PL every year. Pete could not do it., maybe no one can at LU. Disappointed expectations. Hardest issue to fight. Coen came in ,recall, with "We are going for Natl Championship"
He said that because that was the reason he was hired to improve on what Kein and Pete had built.
He hasn't and does not appear able to even win PL.

[RichH2]

Aw come on Digby. True ,fans and alumni frustration built up towards end of Pete's time at LU. Dont blame him for leaving. But do not forget frustration was real. Too many times came right to the playoffs and he started coaching not to lose rather than to win. He was also a HC in training, better at it than Andy, and likely he hired better staff. The expectations were for playoffs and Championship run. We were winning PL every year. Pete could not do it., maybe no one can at LU. Disappointed expectations. Hardest issue to fight. Coen came in ,recall, with "We are going for Natl Championship"
He said that because that was the reason he was hired to improve on what Kevin and Pete had built.
He hasn't and does not appear able to even win PL.

[Digby]

I think a bigger issue was some people did not find him personable which could not have been true because he brought in great players.
He would have left by now anyway. I expect to see him at a 1A school sooner or later, maybe Temple if Golden moves on or a service academy. There is a lesson though and that is if your team is winning the league and/or getting to the playoffs do not fight it.
Those were great days and some people became unrealistic and spoiled.
One step forward: Fans are not blaming ``the whole league stinks'' with every loss.

[RichH2]

As one of the guilty ones, it is indeed more realistic that we suck than the entire PL has gone down the toilet. That said it is still true as to the rest of FCS, other than Ivies, we are becoming irrelevant

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The fact remains that the league's only quality OOC wins this year have been against Harvard and Penn. While Colgate, HC and Laf are good teams, they're nowhere near the top 16 teams in the country, and when one (or two) of those three face them in the playoffs they'll see that.

It's not sour grapes. It's an objective look at the OOC of the league.

[Ivytalk]

Gosh, Lehigh has some anger issues this year!xsmiley_wix

[seenalot]

This year......? When LU isnt wining the PL sucks - when they are ... we are as strong as any league in the country and their not getting seeded is a travesty against God and all reasonable senses. You grow sadly used to it, but its has its humorous aspects.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This year......? When LU isnt wining the PL sucks - when they are ... we are as strong as any league in the country and their not getting seeded is a travesty against God and all reasonable senses. You grow sadly used to it, but its has its humorous aspects.

The fact is it has nothing really to do with Lehigh. The league is not very good on a national level right now. I think the recent playoff performances shows that. Maybe HC or Lafayete changes that but i think it would be very hard to find someone willing to put money on it.

The only thing i will say is Lehigh did bring a lot of attention to the PL during their time. I think the level off support they get when they're good helps. They were able to attract a couple home games and i think the overall perception nationally was Lehigh was a little different then the rest of the league. I think they pre-season rankings and not dropping in the polls like a rock after losses showed that from an outsiders perspective.

[Pard94]

Gosh, Lehigh has some anger issues this year!xsmiley_wix

Bingo! Sour grapes abound. Nevermind the league has three tems that could concieveably win a playoff game. Nevermind that there will very likely be 3 teams in the Top 25 next week. Nevermind that we we bested the Ivy League this year for the first time in a long time. Nevermind that there are two pro-quality QB's in the league for the first time...ever. If Lehigh is not in the discussion than the discussion is not worth having. The league must be down. Much easier to comprehend than the obvious fact that the Chicken Hawks program is in a bit of a tailspin. It get's very old.

[RichH2]

not far off the mark seenalot, even if a tad overstated. as a group we have a tendency to never believe the good times , as we have had sooo many bad ones, decades in fact. So we overreact to bad years. I am one of the guilty ones as I've seen first hand how easy it is to become bad, as we are now, and how long and hard it is to be good again.

I admit to a touch of Chicken Little watching Lehigh self destruct repeatedly the past 3 years. Pards, Gate and Cross the quality now in PL. My point is not that these teams are bad. They and the rest of the PL are not as competitve as we were as a conference in 2003 and earlier. I hope that we do well in the playoffs every year, whether LU in it or not. Last yr was tough. Randolph gives us the PL's best shot at a win for the 1st time in a while. It would be greta to have a run.
no randolph next year.

[hawkineer]

This year......? When LU isnt wining the PL sucks - when they are ... we are as strong as any league in the country and their not getting seeded is a travesty against God and all reasonable senses. You grow sadly used to it, but its has its humorous aspects.
How about a history lesson? When LU was winning the P.L., they were also making hay in the playoffs going 3 and 2 in the first round from in '98-'01 and in '04. FACT During the same period, Fordham defeated Northeastern in the first round ('02) and Colgate made it to the N.C. game ('03). FACT Once LU stopped winning the P.L., the league has performed poorly in the playoffs. FACT

It has nothing to do with who is winning the league, it has to do with the FACT the league just isn't as good. The league rep hasn't won a first round playoff game since 2003. FACT At least in 2004, both Lehigh and Laugheyette performed well. FACT In 2005, Colgate lost by 34. In 2006, Laugheyette lost by 21. In 2007, Fordham lost by 14. In 2008, Colgate lost by 27. FACT

So don't let the facts get in the way of your argument xsmhx

[RichH2]

Gee 94, I know you like to jump on Lehigh every chance you get. Cant speak for others but as I just posted , I admit a bit of Chicken Little syndrome. That said, we all root for PL to win in playoffs. good for all of us. I will root for 1 and hopefully 2 teams this year. The issue is not how bad Lehigh is, we are, ( and I will bitch about that to my heart's content) rather where will PL be next yr and the yr after with or w/o merit aid.Is it OK in your mind ,to just win the PL and get clobbered in the Playoffs ala last year. You and others seem to lump together our complaints about how bad we are with the separate and distinct issue of whether the PL will be able to compete nationally OOC and playoffs and not just have the best of our Conference ,Pards, Gate and HC beat up on the Ivies.

[Pard94]

How about a history lesson? When LU was winning the P.L., they were also making hay in the playoffs going 3 and 2 in the first round from in '98-'01 and in '04. FACT During the same period, Fordham defeated Northeastern in the first round ('02) and Colgate made it to the N.C. game ('03). FACT Once LU stopped winning the P.L., the league has performed poorly in the playoffs. FACT

It has nothing to do with who is winning the league, it has to do with the FACT the league just isn't as good. The league rep hasn't won a first round playoff game since 2003. FACT At least in 2004, both Lehigh and Laugheyette performed well. FACT In 2005, Colgate lost by 34. In 2006, Laugheyette lost by 21. In 2007, Fordham lost by 14. In 2008, Colgate lost by 27. FACT

So don't let the facts get in the way of your argument xsmhx

Great...live in the past it's all you've got. Cling to the glory days. FACT Everything I mentioned were FACTS as well. FACT this argument doesn't happen today if Lehigh wins. FACT if Lehigh pulled out the miracle run and won the rest of the league games this argument never happens. In FACT I would bet that the argument would be how Lehigh had a miraculous season in a very tough PL. Of course that's not a FACT rather just a strong suspiscion. FACT When losers (that would be Lehigh) make efforts to diminish the efforts of winners (HC, Colgate and Laughyette) it really doesn't matter what FACTS you bring up becuase you just sound like a bunch of whining sore losers. And you know what that is? It's a FACT.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Great...live in the past it's all you've got. Cling to the glory days. FACT Everything I mentioned were FACTS as well. FACT this argument doesn't happen today if Lehigh wins. FACT if Lehigh pulled out the miracle run and won the rest of the league games this argument never happens. In FACT I would bet that the argument would be how Lehigh had a miraculous season in a very tough PL. Of course that's not a FACT rather just a strong suspiscion. FACT When losers (that would be Lehigh) make efforts to diminish the efforts of winners (HC, Colgate and Laughyette) it really doesn't matter what FACTS you bring up becuase you just sound like a bunch of whining sore losers. And you know what that is? It's a FACT.

Your comment subjective FACT
Prior comments objective FACT

A drunken public defender would win this arugement...

[Pard94]

Gee 94, I know you like to jump on Lehigh every chance you get. Cant speak for others but as I just posted , I admit a bit of Chicken Little syndrome. That said, we all root for PL to win in playoffs. good for all of us. I will root for 1 and hopefully 2 teams this year. The issue is not how bad Lehigh is, we are, ( and I will bitch about that to my heart's content) rather where will PL be next yr and the yr after with or w/o merit aid.Is it OK in your mind ,to just win the PL and get clobbered in the Playoffs ala last year. You and others seem to lump together our complaints about how bad we are with the separate and distinct issue of whether the PL will be able to compete nationally OOC and playoffs and not just have the best of our Conference ,Pards, Gate and HC beat up on the Ivies.

Rich, kudos to you for being among the few Lehigh supporters not taking the easy way out and dimissnishing the rest of the league in order to somehow deflect attention away from Lehigh's poor effort this year. Lafayette is having a hell of year s is Holy Cross and Colgate. TO site here and say yeah but they aren't as good as the Lehigh team from 1991 or whatever is just sour grapes.

[Pard94]

Your comment subjective FACT
Prior comments objective FACT

Well here is an objective fact for you. Lehigh is bad. I mean really bad. You can look it up.

[hawkineer]

Well here is an objective fact for you. Lehigh is bad. I mean really bad. You can look it up.

Let me understand your argument again. "Lehigh is bad. I mean really bad." But Colgate is really, really good. 27-20 in Hamilton xrolleyesx Huh?

[ngineer]

Hey, be careful, we're living for 145 now...;)

[RichH2]

94

we know that we are bad but Hawkineer is correct about subjective as opposed to objective facts. If a PL team wins a playoff game this yearand no direspect to either gate or Pards but Cross appears to have the best chance with Randolph, then you also have an objective fact.

The Pl has not won in the playoffs nor even come close since 2003. It would have been no different had lehigh appeared in any of them. The coincidence of LU slide into the abyss and the PL's increasing lack of competitiveness in the playoffs is in hindsight, I admit, just that a coincidence. Colored our perceptions no doubt, certainly mine . But reality does intrude and that is that the PL has slid not because lehigh did but because of the oft posted reasons we have all discussed pertaining to scholarships.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

94

we know that we are bad but Hawkineer is correct about subjective as opposed to objective facts. If a PL team wins a playoff game this yearand no direspect to either gate or Pards but Cross appears to have the best chance with Randolph, then you also have an objective fact.

The Pl has not won in the playoffs nor even come close since 2003. It would have been no different had lehigh appeared in any of them. The coincidence of LU slide into the abyss and the PL's increasing lack of competitiveness in the playoffs is in hindsight, I admit, just that a coincidence. Colored our perceptions no doubt, certainly mine . But reality does intrude and that is that the PL has slid not because lehigh did but because of the oft posted reasons we have all discussed pertaining to scholarships.

Lehigh is actually a very good example of the PL's slide. Almost all of their wins in the last the last 4 years have come in league play. Why have they struggled so bad in OOC play but remained compeitive in league play? There is a reason for that.

[RichH2]

Perhaps Owl but I would put most of that on Coen's ability to lose close games and we seem to have more of those OOC. Seriously Lehigh may be emblematic but that example will mean nothing to an idealogue like 94. The more pertinent facts are not how bad we have done OOC but how poorly PL has done in the playoffs.

[Pard94]

Let me understand your argument again. "Lehigh is bad. I mean really bad." But Colgate is really, really good. 27-20 in Hamilton xrolleyesx Huh?

Ummm...no. I never said Colgate was really, really good. I'm a Lafayette supporter (Pard 94 should have been a clue). I think Colgate is overrated. I think HC is really really good and Lafayette is at least really good. I KNOW, however, Lehigh is really really bad.

[RichH2]

94,

your letting your inner hatred for lehigh diminish your position. I know it makes you all warm and cuddly to keep repeating that LU is bad. Doh, we know that. You are now the only one talking about it. the rest of these posts deal with the PL' s current and future in FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/lehigh-20-colgate-27-final.html

My recap is likely to be the only one this weekend, as the Morning Call didn't send anyone up to the game and the Express-Times was unlikely to either.

[Pard94]

94,

your letting your inner hatred for lehigh diminish your position. I know it makes you all warm and cuddly to keep repeating that LU is bad. Doh, we know that. You are now the only one talking about it. the rest of these posts deal with the PL' s current and future in FCS.

Well I'll excuse myself from this thread and let you guys tackle the weighty issues. Somehow we winners will try to muddle through. Let us know what you decide and whether or not we should be pleased with our respective performances.

[RichH2]

xconfusedx

94,

Ok , HUH? Guess you'll have to start your own LEHIGH IS BAD thread and you can just keep posting on it.

Seriously enjoy the season. Hopefully we'll be back next year.But the point of these last posts was not to diminish your year or anyone else's but to look at what happens next. we have little this year, except our anticipated win over LC;), so we might as well look to see how the PL stacks up for playoffs, which brings up the last 6 years.

[Sader87]

What hurts the PL a bit in the play-offs is that they have to take on the CAA teams (usually amoungst the best in the country) right away....just sayin'.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What hurts the PL a bit in the play-offs is that they have to take on the CAA teams (usually amoungst the best in the country) right away....just sayin'.

That was the case in the past as well but with much better success.

I think there was a 6 year stretch when the PL champ beat the A10/CAA champ 4 times.

[Sader87]

A cop-out perhaps but I think (for whatever reason...more 1-A transfers,good kids going there right away etc.) the CAA schools, collectively, have gotten stronger in the last 5 years or so.

[RichH2]

No, 87 that is part of it surely, lots of D-I transfers but they were getting some back then also. Major part is CAA is on a roll like SoCon was for a bunch of years and Montana earlier. Top shools are feeding off one another lots of good recruits and some transfers and lots of confidence. So , tough for us we are next door to toughest conference in CAA but that is the way of it. We will never be able to reach the level they are at now and for the last couple of years but they are the ones along with NEC and Ivy that we have to compete with. If we cant by whatever means, schollie ,bigger squads, luck etc., then back to being The Ivy Lite League, around solely for the convenience of IL

[ngineer]

94

we know that we are bad but Hawkineer is correct about subjective as opposed to objective facts. If a PL team wins a playoff game this yearand no direspect to either gate or Pards but Cross appears to have the best chance with Randolph, then you also have an objective fact.

The Pl has not won in the playoffs nor even come close since 2003. It would have been no different had lehigh appeared in any of them. The coincidence of LU slide into the abyss and the PL's increasing lack of competitiveness in the playoffs is in hindsight, I admit, just that a coincidence. Colored our perceptions no doubt, certainly mine . But reality does intrude and that is that the PL has slid not because lehigh did but because of the oft posted reasons we have all discussed pertaining to scholarships.

Ahem...Let us not forget the valiant 7 play goal line stand at the one yard line against NC to be JMU....That was 2004. My long term memory is what is keeping me warm right now, because my short term memory is giving me the the heebie-geevies...xsmhx

[Pards Rule]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/lehigh-20-colgate-27-final.html

My recap is likely to be the only one this weekend, as the Morning Call didn't send anyone up to the game and the Express-Times was unlikely to either.

LFN, you've got to be kidding me! Are things that bad for the Morning Call and the Express-Times that they couldnt sent some scribe up to Hamilton in a car? WTF!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Perhaps the dilemma can be resolved creatively. The Patriot League makes its own rules, and can designate whichever team it chooses as its AQ, correct? Why must that be the winningest team? Each year, following the regular schedule in which the teams play one another, the League simply can designate Lehigh as its champion, regardless of the Engineers' record. History shows, after all, that Lehigh stands the best chance of post-season success.

The other teams in the League will benefit from this arrangement. Objectively, of course, only Lehigh can win the League title because only the Engineers have garnered sufficient national attention and respect over past decades as is befitting that title. But this arrangement will actually increase the chances of an at-large bid for the other Patriot League teams. Imagine the morale boost when each of the other teams in the League can claim, each and every season, year after year, that it soundly defeated the League champion. This certainly should help each institutions coaches' poll and GPI rankings.

In my years on College Hill, I couldn't imagine anyone but Lehigh as the titleholder; I took comfort in knowing that the rest of the nation felt as I did - just as we all do today. Oh and . . . uh . . . best of luck in the 145th on November 21st, guys. May the best team win. Not that it matters, of course . . . .

[Pard94]

Perhaps the dilemma can be resolved creatively. The Patriot League makes its own rules, and can designate whichever team it chooses as its AQ, correct? Why must that be the winningest team? Each year, following the regular schedule in which the teams play one another, the League simply can designate Lehigh as its champion, regardless of the Engineers' record. History shows, after all, that Lehigh stands the best chance of post-season success.

The other teams in the League will benefit from this arrangement. Objectively, of course, only Lehigh can will the League title because only the Engineers have garnered sufficient national attention and respect over past decades as is befitting that title. But this arrangement will actually increase the chances of an at-large bid for the other Patriot League teams. Imagine the morale boost when each of the other teams in the League can claim, each and every season, year after year, that it soundly defeated the League champion. This certainly should help each institutions coaches' poll and GPI rankings.

In my years on College Hill, I couldn't imagine anyone but Lehigh as the titleholder; I took comfort in knowing that the rest of the nation felt as I did - just as we all do today. Oh and . . . uh . . . best of luck in the 145th on November 21st, guys. May the best team win. Not that it matters, of course . . . .

I wouldn't worry too much about it Bogus. Lehigh will correct this little anomoly known as the Coen era in the offseasson. Once they chose the best coach from the thousands of applicants banging on Lehigh's door the Mountain Hawks will return to their rightful position of PL dominance and FCS relevance and the league will be fixed. No more downward slide for the PL once that happens. Look out CAA!! The real challenge is successfully petitioning the NCAA not to count these last 3 years. We should all start writing letters now.

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolxxlolx
Bogus
Very good shot, great with my coffee this morning.

[Bogus Megapardus]

xlolxxlolxxlolx
Bogus
Very good shot, great with my coffee this morning.

All in good humor, of course, H2. I hope you know that.

[Digby]

Set Lehigh as the sole champion for the last 10 years to enforce the case that the PL has been overlooked and payback is due. That also puts Coen and Lembo into the true pantheon of Mountain Men. Lembo is already there though.

[RichH2]

ngineer, xoopsx a senior moment to put in wrong year, the brain locks seem to come and go as they wont. Ah well, back to 94. Actually looking forward to his next anti-Lehigh tirade. He's off Fordham and back on us. While he has a point about Lehigh fans' tunnel vision as to our performance and the PL status. His refusal to distinquish between the issues is disingenuous I guess. Gives him more to gloat about.

Thinking about starting a pool whether Andy can arrange 3 more losses this year by less than a TD. His futility in close games has to be some kind of record.xrolleyesx

[Pard94]

ngineer, xoopsx a senior moment to put in wrong year, the brain locks seem to come and go as they wont. Ah well, back to 94. Actually looking forward to his next anti-Lehigh tirade. He's off Fordham and back on us. While he has a point about Lehigh fans' tunnel vision as to our performance and the PL status. His refusal to distinquish between the issues is disingenuous I guess. Gives him more to gloat about.

Thinking about starting a pool whether Andy can arrange 3 more losses this year by less than a TD. His futility in close games has to be some kind of record.xrolleyesx

Don't fool yourself. I'm never off of Lehigh. The Chicken Hawks are perpetually in my crosshairs. Especially when you fish splash around in the barrell so noisily...easy pickens!xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

xeyebrowx gosh, I was getting concerned that you had left us for a new targets.

[Pard94]

xeyebrowx gosh, I was getting concerned that you had left us for a new targets.

Nahh...Fordham is my light work. I use them to tune up for The Rivalry.

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolx

Ok , Guess I'll get out my Rickles-Mahr Thesaurus of Insults. Start reading upfor the Game.xwhistlex

[carney2]

94

we know that we are bad but Hawkineer is correct about subjective as opposed to objective facts.

Rich, n, owl, what is wrong with you people?!! Every year the trap is set and every year you leap in and fasten the noose around your own necks. Haven't you figured this out yet? 94 is our skirmish line, our point man for the annual Pot Pie and Scrapple Classic. Oh, he warms up through the season by smacking me around and picking the occasional meaningless sideline fight with someone like Fordham, but it's you he lives for. Anyway, he's begun throwing you some rope. I'm sure you will hang yourselves.

[RichH2]

Too true xnonono2x, but it is a genetic problem I fearxviolinx. Only known cure is to beat you guys in 3 weeks xthumbsupx. It will quiet the symptoms. A quandry for many is the punishment for winning THE GAME is the possibility of Andy getting a new contract.xbangx.

[ngineer]

Perhaps the dilemma can be resolved creatively. The Patriot League makes its own rules, and can designate whichever team it chooses as its AQ, correct? Why must that be the winningest team? Each year, following the regular schedule in which the teams play one another, the League simply can designate Lehigh as its champion, regardless of the Engineers' record. History shows, after all, that Lehigh stands the best chance of post-season success.

The other teams in the League will benefit from this arrangement. Objectively, of course, only Lehigh can win the League title because only the Engineers have garnered sufficient national attention and respect over past decades as is befitting that title. But this arrangement will actually increase the chances of an at-large bid for the other Patriot League teams. Imagine the morale boost when each of the other teams in the League can claim, each and every season, year after year, that it soundly defeated the League champion. This certainly should help each institutions coaches' poll and GPI rankings.

In my years on College Hill, I couldn't imagine anyone but Lehigh as the titleholder; I took comfort in knowing that the rest of the nation felt as I did - just as we all do today. Oh and . . . uh . . . best of luck in the 145th on November 21st, guys. May the best team win. Not that it matters, of course . . . .

The best team always wins on that day!;)

[ngineer]

Too true xnonono2x, but it is a genetic problem I fearxviolinx. Only known cure is to beat you guys in 3 weeks xthumbsupx. It will quiet the symptoms. A quandry for many is the punishment for winning THE GAME is the possibility of Andy getting a new contract.xbangx.

Nah, I think Andy has to run the table to keep either his job, or at least Brown's. Losses to HC and FU and a win over LC I don't think would save...unless we change our nickname, AGAIN, to the Lehigh Horseshoes or the Lehigh Handgrenades!! (where 'close' is only good )

[carney2]

The best team always wins on that day!;)

Not so. The ChickenSquawks have won 63 and tied 5, so the best team has been cheated or canoodled on 68 separate occasions. The gods are fickle.

[RichH2]

xrotatehx the Lehigh University Handgrenades , has a certain je ne sais quoi about it.

I think Brown and some of the other offense coaches are gone no matter what. The liklihood is we finish 3-8. Sterrett may give him another year with an older squad.

Admit to mixed emotions with HC, I want him to finally get his funtion to put these players in a position to win. right now seems to be stuck in neutral. I really dont need to see him state in newspaper that we need to win one of these close games. He sounds like us bitching on the AGS board. BUT he is the HC it is up to him to do it. To still be confused by these games does not instill any great confidence in me that he has progressed any more than the team has over the last 4 years.

[ColgateTD]

xlolx

Have enjoyed reading this thread. The love/hate between LC and LU is great fun. Congrats to all for your posts. Helps me to understand THE GAME better and what's at stake....xcoolx

TVR - great account of the game. Raiders could well have lost yesterday. In my mind LU looked good in spots, but needs more consistency. It is possible they could provide problems for their final PL opponents, but very iffy...

No mention of the part the wind and rain played in the game. Turf field does even things out however.

[RichH2]

xhurrayx

It is an annual show. We have been planning to take it on tour but we have found it hard to get the Home to allow the Pard faithful out unescorted.xnodx

Yes Lehigh's main feature is that we are consistently inconsistent. I wonder if that is the same as being incontinent?xchinscratchx

[TheValleyRaider]

No mention of the part the wind and rain played in the game. Turf field does even things out however.

The wind certainly did. Going towards the north end zone seemed to be much more productive for both teams, and particularly for the Hawks' kicking game. They pinned us deep more than once, while punts going the other direction wound up pretty awful

[Go...gate]

Rich, n, owl, what is wrong with you people?!! Every year the trap is set and every year you leap in and fasten the noose around your own necks. Haven't you figured this out yet? 94 is our skirmish line, our point man for the annual Pot Pie and Scrapple Classic. Oh, he warms up through the season by smacking me around and picking the occasional meaningless sideline fight with someone like Fordham, but it's you he lives for. Anyway, he's begun throwing you some rope. I'm sure you will hang yourselves.

xconfusedx

[carney2]

xconfusedx

Auslanders! We have to lead them by the nose. Sometimes I'm amazed that they can even dress themselves.

Pot pie and scrapple are staples of Pennsylvania Dutch cuisine.

Scrapple is typically made of hog offal, such as the head, heart, liver, and other scraps, which are boiled with any bones attached (often the entire head), to make a broth. Fans of scrapple sometimes boast that scrapple contains everything from a pig except the "oink."

A pot pie is a type of baked savory pie with a bottom and top completely encased by flaky crusts and baked inside a pie tin to support its shape. Meat such as chicken or beef is the primary ingredient instead of fruit.

In this case I have assigned a regionally poignant alternate name to THE Game. I have, quite frankly, not fallen in love - or even like - with LFN's "The Rivalry." Yuk!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Meat such as Mountain Hawk is the primary ingredient instead of fruit.


Fixed.

[RichH2]

Hunters and bakers are known to wear leopard skin aprons as the pussies are soeasy to catch xnodx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hunters and bakers are known to wear leopard skin aprons as the pussies are soeasy to catch xnodx

xnonox

[Bogus Megapardus]

Once upon a time, a Leopard boy and a Mountain Hawk girl secretly got together and decided to make nice to one another, defying all tradition and rules of intercollegiate rivalry - and this is what they got:



http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/285/leopardhawk2.jpg



Let that be a lesson to you all.


* * * * * * * *

[carney2]

Hunters and bakers are known to wear leopard skin aprons as the pussies are soeasy to catch xnodx

It is a well known fact that the only Leopards ever caught were Pards in siesta after feasting on ChickenSquawk. This is a seasonal event. The next known day to catch a gorged and digesting Leopard is Sunday, November 22, 2009. Each of these Leopards will have a huge smile on his face.

[RichH2]

xlolxxlolxxlolx

Carney and Bogus nice comebacks.

Bogus is that photo from the Family album. Handsome bird.xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Auslanders! We have to lead them by the nose. Sometimes I'm amazed that they can even dress themselves.

Pot pie and scrapple are staples of Pennsylvania Dutch cuisine.

Scrapple is typically made of hog offal, such as the head, heart, liver, and other scraps, which are boiled with any bones attached (often the entire head), to make a broth. Fans of scrapple sometimes boast that scrapple contains everything from a pig except the "oink."

A pot pie is a type of baked savory pie with a bottom and top completely encased by flaky crusts and baked inside a pie tin to support its shape. Meat such as chicken or beef is the primary ingredient instead of fruit.

In this case I have assigned a regionally poignant alternate name to THE Game. I have, quite frankly, not fallen in love - or even like - with LFN's "The Rivalry." Yuk!

I know what they are - I like pot pie, not so much scrapple - I just never heard the game called by that title!