Patriot League Predictions - Week 8

[Pard4Life]

I take carney's absence as a sign he has evaporated into thin air like a liberated spirit. What curse? Anyhow, I'm curious what others have to say about this big week.

Lehigh at Bucknell
Colgate at Holy Cross
Fordham at Lafayette

Discuss...

[Pard4Life]

SE2 said Bucknell was classified as a winnable game in a very depressed tone. Bucknell had trouble with Gtown, who Lehigh pounded. However can BU take advantage of a depressing week and long trip by Lehigh? Is triple option enough?

[Pard94]

Carney indicated he was going to be out of pocket until tomorrow. I am going to wait on my predictions until he puts his regular thread up. I don't believe in curses but I am somewhat supersitious. xnodx

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh at Bucknell. Engineers too much for Bucknell's defense.

Colgate at Holy Cross: Crusaders too much for Colgate's defense.

Fordham at Lafayette: By two touchdowns.

Meanwhile, Georgetown is on bye and trying to figure out how it dropped so quickly to the bottom three of the entire Sagarin ratings (ahead of Morehead State and Campbell). But it got its first rushing TD last week, so that's a slight improvement.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh at Bucknell. Engineers too much for Bucknell's defense.

Colgate at Holy Cross: Crusaders too much for Colgate's defense.

Fordham at Lafayette: By two touchdowns.

Meanwhile, Georgetown is on bye and trying to figure out how it dropped so quickly to the bottom three of the entire Sagarin ratings (ahead of Morehead State and Campbell). But it got its first rushing TD last week, so that's a slight improvement.

It is too bad Georgetown has a bye this week. As bad luck may have it, I'm going to be in DC this weekend and instead will be seeing Howard. As a Patriot fan, going to MSF is high on my list of priorities and this would have been a golden opportunity to go. xsmhx

[RichH2]

Lehigh over BU, 14-0 no offensive TDs INT return and punt return I betcha xnodx

Gate over HC only way to stop Dom is not let him on the field. Lots of 10minute drives for Gate and 2:30 minute drives by HC. 38-28. Dom gets 4TDS and 300 yds but HC cannot stop Gate runs

Lafayette too balanced for FU and D certainly too good. Give Skelton 350 yds passing 3TDs ,4 ints. FU as yet has no D

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm picking today because I usually pick on Mondays. If there's a new thread, I can handle re-posting

Went 3-2 last week, 26-12 on the year

Lehigh at Bucknell Lehigh This game will be a struggle, though in what sense of the word I'm not completely sure. I'll take Lehigh, mostly because I think they have enough talent to overcome the Bison, though it's a lukewarm prediction. Whatever

Colgate at Holy Cross Colgate Like I was going to pick anything else. Colgate has gotten some tests in the last couple of weeks and faced a few questions about their ability. But, they have the kind of ground game that can potentially neutralize the quick-strike offense. Most importantly, the Raiders have experience winning big games, and winning in tough spots. That experience carries the day in Worcester

Fordham at Lafayette Lafayette Fordham has the firepower to cause the top teams in the League fits, but I'm hard-pressed to believe their defense is good enough to do enough except maybe keep games close. The Leopards are on a mission, and they have much bigger fish to fry in the coming weeks

[FUrams7]

Lehigh over Bucknell 16-10
HC in a nailbiter over Colgate 24-23 home field helps HC--
Fordham over Lafayette 33-27 Lafayette is good, but Fordham's O is firing on all cyclinders

--look for the PL title will become a 4 team fight to the finish line .. gate, HC, lafayette and Fordham

[R.A.]

Holy Cross

[carney2]

Thanks, P4L for leaping into the breach.

LEHIGH at BUCKNELL
Lehigh The Toilet Bowl. Bungling-Incompetence vs. Cannot-Fog-A-Mirror. I'm picking the 'neers, but if there is a God; if there is justice; both will lose.

Colgate at Holy Cross
Holy Cross What the faithful on both sides have been trumpeting as the game of the year in the Patriot League is now beginning to look like a battle for second place. Colgate is the most unimpressive 7-0 team in this observer's memory. Cross, on the other hand, continues doing what it does, and doing it well. 'gate will score and will chew up some clock, but this will no longer be competitive by the 4th quarter.


Fordham at Lafayette
Lafayette Lafayette's turn to worry about whether this is the week that Fordham emerges from its coma. The Rams have shown recent signs of resuscitation, but no matter. They have run smack into the proverbial unstoppable force that is 2009's version of destiny's darling.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks, P4L for leaping into the breach.

LEHIGH at BUCKNELL
Lehigh The Toilet Bowl. Bungling-Incompetence vs. Cannot-Fog-A-Mirror. I'm picking the home team, but if there is a God; if there is justice; both will lose.

If you're picking the home team, you're picking Ken_Z's pride and joy, not us.

[carney2]

If you're picking the home team, you're picking Ken_Z's pride and joy, not us.

Oops. Consider it corrected.

[carney2]

Carney indicated he was going to be out of pocket until tomorrow. I am going to wait on my predictions until he puts his regular thread up. I don't believe in curses but I am somewhat supersitious. xnodx

No "regular thread." This is it.

[jimbo65]

Lehigh over the Bison. If not, they really have cratered

HC over Colgate on the hope that FU till has a chance for title.

Rams over Pards. Pards are not Cornell but five passing tds & one rushing td for Skelton plus 400 + yds passing look good. Also the D played well. Shame on us for diminishing the homecoming.

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh over the Bison. If not, they really have cratered

HC over Colgate on the hope that FU till has a chance for title.

Rams over Pards. Pards are not Cornell but five passing tds & one rushing td for Skelton plus 400 + yds passing look good. Also the D played well. Shame on us for diminishing the homecoming.

Lafayette is better than we were last year. Is Fordham better than last year?? Probably not. Do you recall the score of the Lafayette Fordham game in the Bronx last year...

Just keep picking against the Pards

[letsgopards04]

Now that carney has weighed in it feels like a Monday.

Lehigh at Bucknell - Lehigh wins 3-0 in 6 OT. The end zone doesn't see the light of day.

Colgate at Holy Cross - Could be for all the marbles. I think the Raiders keep Randolph off the field long enough to win.

Fordham at Lafayette - Lafayette is just rolling along and I don't think the Rams can muster a complete effort to stop the 'Pards on Homecoming.

[letsgopards04]

Lehigh over the Bison. If not, they really have cratered

HC over Colgate on the hope that FU till has a chance for title.

Rams over Pards. Pards are not Cornell but five passing tds & one rushing td for Skelton plus 400 + yds passing look good. Also the D played well. Shame on us for diminishing the homecoming.

Skelton will not be on his feet long enough to throw that many yards. Shame on us for spoiling your leave from the Bronx.

[Fordham]

Carney indicated he was going to be out of pocket until tomorrow. I am going to wait on my predictions until he puts his regular thread up. I don't believe in curses but I am somewhat supersitious. xnodx
No "regular thread." This is it.

xhurrayx

[SoCalAg]

Home field advantage will be just enough for HC to overcome it awful defense.

HC - 38
'Gate - 35

[Pard94]

Well alright Carney. I think you're messing with the regular weekly mojo by not putting up your thread. That's your perogative I guess. That being the case, here are my picks.

Bucknell beats Lehigh - 2-0 - If there was a way Bucknell could win 1-0 I'd go with that.

Holy Cross beats Colgate - 31-14 - Sombody's getting exposed this week.

Lafayette beats Fordham - 28-10 - It's Homecoming. Lafayette's defense last week was freakin scary against a team that is supposed to be the best the Ivy League has. That was the kind of game that changes a team for the better and they were already good to begin with.

[65 Pard]

Bucknell by 3 points over LU
HC over Gate by 10
LC over Fordham by 10 in a high scoring game.

[ColgateTD]

32-6 on the season....xnodx

'Gate over HC - Red Raiders grind out another win coming from behind, despite what Carney thinks.

Engineers over Bisons - this one could go extra innings and be called due to the American League post-midnight rule.

Marquis de Lafayette over Rams - Too much D for Skelton and Co. + it's homecoming.

[jimbo65]

Skelton will not be on his feet long enough to throw that many yards. Shame on us for spoiling your leave from the Bronx.
When we depart from the Bronx, the proper word is parole rather than "leave. xsmiley_wix

[Pard4Life]

When we depart from the Bronx, the proper word is parole rather than "leave. xsmiley_wix

Ha, it's not that bad in the Bronx!

[Pard4Life]

All right...

Bucknell 13, Lehigh 10... and you thought the Yale game was bad... I can't see Lehigh being ready to play emotionally after last weekend. Bucknell is a .500 club itching to finally beat these Hawks and avenge the thievery of their TD song.

Lafayette 31, Fordham 27... we still have trouble with mobile QBs and spread passing attacks, but our D-line play and questionable Rams D should be enough for the Pards to win.

Colgate 27, Holy Cross 24... pure toss-up, but 1) Colgate has shown a very worrying trend lately of poor games vs 'bad' teams... an HC win by 14+ would surprise but not shock. 2) HC still has questionable D and Gate is balanced enough to exploit any weakness... Gate runs like the same six plays but they do it well 3) Biddle makes adjustments very well 4) they ALWAYS seem to pull through or have the chips fall their way... Gate is like the freakin Yankees!

[HoyaMetanoia]

No "Bye Over Georgetown" joke yet? I thought that one was a given this week.

[Ivytalk]

Bucknell 4, Lehigh 2 : in a battle of safeties, the Trojans beat the Naturalambs

Holy Cross 27, Colgate 24: Randolph pulls it out at home, then sticks it in again at post-game party

Lafayette 24, Fordham 13: the Pard D-line makes John Skelton look more like Red Skelton

[carney2]

No "Bye Over Georgetown" joke yet? I thought that one was a given this week.

Fear of DFW.

[jimbo65]

Ha, it's not that bad in the Bronx!

If you are driving to the game, I suggest you remove any fancy hubcaps from
your vehicle. Thats how we fund road trips. xlolx

[CrusaderBob]

I thought it was how you were funding FB scholarships! xsmiley_wix

[Pards Rule]

^^^ Ouch - good one!!!

[Go...gate]

If you are driving to the game, I suggest you remove any fancy hubcaps from
your vehicle. Thats how we fund road trips. xlolx

You Rams need to get the word out about the Italian restaurants not far from the campus. Very good food.

[Go...gate]

I thought it was how you were funding FB scholarships! xsmiley_wix

xlolx

[Fordham]

I thought it was how you were funding FB scholarships! xsmiley_wix

HA! xlolx

actually we were going to swipe the budget money from our women's programs but we thought stealing hubcaps put us on firmer legal ground. xrotatehx:p


You Rams need to get the word out about the Italian restaurants not far from the campus. Very good food.
agreed ... those Arthur Ave. food options are really tremendous.

[Go...gate]

[QUOTE=Fordham;1440755]HA! xlolx

actually we were going to swipe the budget money from our women's programs but we thought stealing hubcaps put us on firmer legal ground. xrotatehx:p

Gotta love those bullet-proof opinion letters from Ivytalk!! xnodxxlolx

[RichH2]

As this is a prediction thread, the consensus seems to be there may be some sort of schollies and Fordham has the best funding plan and the best Itlalian bakeries xbowx

[TheValleyRaider]

These prediction threads have become quite the wandering adventures recently, haven't they? xlolx

[RichH2]

At least this thread has the advantage of some humor, theMaroon Council thread is , after digesting the good news a repetition of all the speculation we've posted a thousand times.

[ngineer]

I picking Colgate to slip by 'the Cross' 28-27 by clock domination and 'containing' Dominique.

Fordham has shown signs of coming out of their cocoon, but not sure if it will be a moth or butterfly...Laffy with more balance survives a scare, 31-28.

Huge game for Lehigh to see what kind of resiliency they have after on putrid offensive performance last week. I 'believe' the kids will be rejuvenated by being on the road and believing in themselves. Defense has been stifling, and will get good field position for the O. Lehigh still sees daylight at Christy Mattewson, 20-7.

Georgetown doesn't know whether to buy or sell.

[carney2]

Huge game for Lehigh

Is this what it's come to, n - "huge games;" Armagedon against Georgetown and Bucknell? If so, it's a new high in low.

[Fordham]

Guys - I agree on the "good to see some humor around here" sentiments and disagree that we have shown any meaningful signs of lifeas of yet. Our D has not shown an ability to stop anyone and I expect a non-stop, jam it down our throat, rushing attack that we have not shown an ability to stop.

We certainly have a chance, that Jim Carey-Dumb-and-Dumber sort of way, but until we show the ability to stop a good team, I think we're in trouble.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is this what it's come to, n - "huge games;" Armagedon against Georgetown and Bucknell? If so, it's a new high in low.

Huge because if we can't score three offensive touchdowns against Bucknell, how on Earth can we expect to actually beat Colgate, Holy Cross, "that school in Easton"? I'd also throw Fordham in that mix, too - that Ram offense the last couple of weeks really scares me.

Lehigh is in a weird spot since we're one loss away from a losing season, have looked awful on offense against the Ivies, Villanova and CCSU - but still are technically in the PL title hunt. If - a huge if - Lehigh can somehow make a "2004 Red Sox Down 3-0 Against the Yankees" sort of offensive comeback, they could in theory make a run at this thing. I'm not saying it will happen or anything, but it's still too early to throw the whole thing away. Incredibly.

When you're 1-5 and still can win the league, every game is "huge".

[Go...gate]

Guys - I agree on the "good to see some humor around here" sentiments and disagree that we have shown any meaningful signs of lifeas of yet. Our D has not shown an ability to stop anyone and I expect a non-stop, jam it down our throat, rushing attack that we have not shown an ability to stop.

We certainly have a chance, that Jim Carey-Dumb-and-Dumber sort of way, but until we show the ability to stop a good team, I think we're in trouble.

Perhaps, but you guys have a lot of potential on offense, which means if Skelton is hot and your opposition cannot keep up, they will be in trouble. You certainly showed some dangerous offensive players against us.

[carney2]

Here is a very interesting comparison of Randolph vs. Skelton for this year. Be aware that there may be a few stats in here from "mop up" guys, but most of this is from these two.

Passing Yds. - HC 1,964, F 1,940

Completions-Attempts-Int - HC 163-249--6, F 133-221-6

Completion % - HC 65.5%, F 60.2%

TDs by Passing - HC 18, F 15

Not a heckuva lot of difference.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Lehigh 7 at Bucknell 8. xconfusedx To the home team goes the spoiled, errr, I mean the spoils.
Colgate 28 at Holy Cross 31. xsmiley_wix Home field proves to be the difference in a great game, .....
Fordham 7 at Lafayette 35. xthumbsupx 'Pards keep on keeping on, ....

[jimbo65]

Fordham 7 at Lafayette 35. xthumbsupx 'Pards keep on keeping on, ....
There must be controlled substances in the water up there.
Pards may put up 35 but Rams will have multiple tds, multiple as in 3-5.

[Pards Rule]

Lehigh 7 at Bucknell 8. xconfusedx To the home team goes the spoiled, errr, I mean the spoils.
Colgate 28 at Holy Cross 31. xsmiley_wix Home field proves to be the difference in a great game, .....
Fordham 7 at Lafayette 35. xthumbsupx 'Pards keep on keeping on, ....

WOW - VT Wildcatter - you have become a big Pard fan xthumbsupx

[Fordham]

There must be controlled substances in the water up there.
Pards may put up 35 but Rams will have multiple tds, multiple as in 3-5. I hope you're right but a downpour certainly favors the running game and neutralizes our passing game a bit.

[Pard4Life]

I think Tavani's game plan will be to keep the ball out of Skeltons hands by controlling the game clock... ie running the ball. Mo White would get 200 yards this game if we did not hav Morrow-Coon-Rudolph too. My guess is that this is how Gate held the Rams to 12 points.

[Fordham]

I think Tavani's game plan will be to keep the ball out of Skeltons hands by controlling the game clock... ie running the ball. Mo White would get 200 yards this game if we did not hav Morrow-Coon-Rudolph too. My guess is that this is how Gate held the Rams to 12 points.
Put me down as seriously concerned about what your rushing and time of poss totals are on Saturday.

What's the Pard rushing record for a game, both for a team and individually?

[Pard4Life]

Put me down as seriously concerned about what your rushing and time of poss totals are on Saturday.

What's the Pard rushing record for a game, both for a team and individually?

Hmm... not sure about team record but individual record should belong to Erik Marsh, I think in the 270s vs Lehigh in 1994. Don't worry we won't get close to that.

[ngineer]

Is this what it's come to, n - "huge games;" Armagedon against Georgetown and Bucknell? If so, it's a new high in low.

Apologize for late response, but I'm just 'recovering' from the revelrie in Philly this a.m.:D It is 'huge' because a loss to a perceived 'middling' PL opponent will have major effect down the road. A solid win and there can still be hope that the season can be salvaged.

[jimbo65]

I think Tavani's game plan will be to keep the ball out of Skeltons hands by controlling the game clock... ie running the ball. Mo White would get 200 yards this game if we did not hav Morrow-Coon-Rudolph too. My guess is that this is how Gate held the Rams to 12 points.
Gate held the Rams to 19 or 21 points (assuming two or none on the last play). The refs held the Rams to 13. I do not personally know whether time had ended but that was a bogus way to end the game and FU should refuse to allow those refs to officiate at any additional games we are in. The ultimate home job, or so it seems.

[LUHawker]

Apologize for late response, but I'm just 'recovering' from the revelrie in Philly this a.m.:D It is 'huge' because a loss to a perceived 'middling' PL opponent will have major effect down the road. A solid win and there can still be hope that the season can be salvaged.

SALVAGED!! Are you kidding? This season is an absolute train wreck. The Lehigh offense isn't suddenly going to materialize. There have been plenty of opportunities for the offense to evidence itself, but that hasn't and isn't likely to happen. Doesn't mean LU can't win a couple of more games, but PLEASE, let's stop kidding ourselves, that Lehigh realistically has a shot at winning the PL and salvaging the season. No offensive progress has been made mid-way through the season, so to expect a miraculous turnaround is foolhearty.

Joe Sterrett has two choices and Andy Coen has one. Joe's choice is to give Andy a 1-yr extension but with stipulations like hiring a new OC. Andy's choice will only happen if Joe gives him a choice first and if Joe decides to offer Andy another year, then Andy will either have to punt Trey Brown or go down with the ship. Either way, Trey Brown must go and I think there is good reason to expect Andy to be gone as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SALVAGED!! Are you kidding? This season is an absolute train wreck. The Lehigh offense isn't suddenly going to materialize. There have been plenty of opportunities for the offense to evidence itself, but that hasn't and isn't likely to happen. Doesn't mean LU can't win a couple of more games, but PLEASE, let's stop kidding ourselves, that Lehigh realistically has a shot at winning the PL and salvaging the season. No offensive progress has been made mid-way through the season, so to expect a miraculous turnaround is foolhearty.

Joe Sterrett has two choices and Andy Coen has one. Joe's choice is to give Andy a 1-yr extension but with stipulations like hiring a new OC. Andy's choice will only happen if Joe gives him a choice first and if Joe decides to offer Andy another year, then Andy will either have to punt Trey Brown or go down with the ship. Either way, Trey Brown must go and I think there is good reason to expect Andy to be gone as well.

Sharks sure are circling around Brown, and quotes like this from the Yale post-game press conference can't help:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/press-roundup-lehigh-0-yale-7.html


“We knew when they were in shotgun that they were going to be throwing downfield, and I think our D-line was licking their chops because they wanted to get sacks,” senior LB Paul Rice said. “They came up big in a few crucial points.”

I watched some of the Yale game again (bravely, I might add) and I noticed that there were actually times when the running game got going and there was some positive forward motion with Barket, Walker and (until he got hurt) Colvin. Lum's scramble on a broken play also was a great running play - but then in an effort to "balance" we'd then throw on 1st down - in the shotgun.

If I'm the OC, why not run it 14 straight times to start the game vs. Bucknell? Force teams to go eight in the box and then use play-action to try to hit wide-open receivers. I'm all for "balance" when things are working, but when things aren't, why not just go to the well to build confidence?

As hard as it is to believe, the season still is salvageable, but it will take a lot more shown on offense, obviously, to compete. I see the Bucknell game as a chance for Lehigh to demonstrate that they can, because they certainly didn't compete against Yale.

[RichH2]

Depressing that Coen even now cannot or will not come up with an explanation for O dissolution. Lost wrs but still had Zurn and got Artrim back so inexperience not complete answer. All he has to say is O not synchronized but doesnot know why. I cannot fathom the whys here and have given up trying. Fix it or go. No other options

[ngineer]

Depressing that Coen even now cannot or will not come up with an explanation for O dissolution. Lost wrs but still had Zurn and got Artrim back so inexperience not complete answer. All he has to say is O not synchronized but doesnot know why. I cannot fathom the whys here and have given up trying. Fix it or go. No other options

Maybe that's the answer...the 'option'...yeah, riiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhtt.xrolleyesx

[carney2]

Put me down as seriously concerned about what your rushing and time of poss totals are on Saturday.

What's the Pard rushing record for a game, both for a team and individually?

This has not been a stereotypical Frank Tavani team. They are averaging 128.7 rushing yards per game this year compared to around 175 in each of the last two years. By the standards that we are used to this has been Air Lafayette. The 238 passing yds. per game doesn't come close to what Skelton is doing of course, but we are thrilled that Frank and his offensive coordinator Mickey Fein have put aside their leather helmets.

I assume that you are facetiously asking about the Lafayette rushing record by way of stating that the Fordham rushing "D" has problems and (tongue in cheek) it could be broken on Saturday. Anyway,

single game, individual: 296, Nick Kowgios vs. Princeton, 1982

single game, team: 528 vs. Lehigh, 1943

With the triple play of a questionable Fordham defense, and the need to keep the ball away from Skelton and company, and a 100% chance of rain, a 200+++ yd. rushing day does not appear out of the question.

Oh yeah, P4L, Erik Marsh's best was 251 vs. Lehigh in 1992, tied for number 4 on the all time list.

[Keenan]

Lehigh 9 Bucknell 12 - No TD's in this contest

Colgate 7 Holy Cross 31 - Not even going to be a game. HC shows the nation how lucky Gate has been this season and what a soft schedule they have played thus far.

Fordham 14 at Lafayette 28 - Can Laffy win this league? Next couple of weeks will tell the story

[Tunkmaster]

Gate held the Rams to 19 or 21 points (assuming two or none on the last play). The refs held the Rams to 13. I do not personally know whether time had ended but that was a bogus way to end the game and FU should refuse to allow those refs to officiate at any additional games we are in. The ultimate home job, or so it seems.

The league assigns the officials, not the home team. Having seen several replays, the Rams did not get their last play off in time. I feel for the Rams' fans, sorta, but you lost legit.

[Fordham]

The league assigns the officials, not the home team. Having seen several replays, the Rams did not get their last play off in time. I feel for the Rams' fans, sorta, but you lost legit.

xconfusedx where's the link to the replay?

[Pards Rule]

LC 34 FU 24

[Pard94]

I've never been more thrilled to see a 100% chaince of rain in my life. As much as I have enjoyed watching Air Lafayette this year there is no doubt we have a considerable edge if this turns into a slog in the driving rain.

I'd love to see the 4 headed tailback monster turn in a good old fashioned Tavani style, punch you in the face kind of game.

Better yet, if ever there was a situation where perhaps a strong dose of Wildcat might be in order...this is it! This defense is highly suspect. We need to take advantage of that.

By the way...if we lose this game I may just fling myself off of my roof. I should probably alert the wife and make sure our affairs are in order.

I'm wicked nervous as we say up here in New England.

[Fordham]

... here's to pards being flung from rooftops tomorrow!

[Fordham]

This has not been a stereotypical Frank Tavani team. They are averaging 128.7 rushing yards per game this year compared to around 175 in each of the last two years. By the standards that we are used to this has been Air Lafayette. The 238 passing yds. per game doesn't come close to what Skelton is doing of course, but we are thrilled that Frank and his offensive coordinator Mickey Fein have put aside their leather helmets.

I assume that you are facetiously asking about the Lafayette rushing record by way of stating that the Fordham rushing "D" has problems and (tongue in cheek) it could be broken on Saturday. Anyway,

single game, individual: 296, Nick Kowgios vs. Princeton, 1982

single game, team: 528 vs. Lehigh, 1943

With the triple play of a questionable Fordham defense, and the need to keep the ball away from Skelton and company, and a 100% chance of rain, a 200+++ yd. rushing day does not appear out of the question.

Oh yeah, P4L, Erik Marsh's best was 251 vs. Lehigh in 1992, tied for number 4 on the all time list.
unfortunately it was a serious question. I don't expect those #'s above to get challenged tomorrow but would not be surprised to see 250+ on the ground for Lafayette as a team tomorrow.

I'll be looking for how sharp Skelton comes out in this weather as well as whether or not we're able to generate turnovers. If he's sharp and we start getting turnovers, we can make a game of it.

If it's shove-the-ball down our throats right down the field, it could be a very long afternoon for the beloved Rams as our D will tire quickly.

[Pard94]

... here's to pards being flung from rooftops tomorrow!

If I do end up flinging myself off of the roof...I hereby leave my 1992 Patriot League Championship ring...to Carney. I think he's the only one I know who would actually wear it.
xnodx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If I do end up flinging myself off of the roof...I hereby leave my 1992 Patriot League Championship ring...to Carney. I think he's the only one I know who would actually wear it.
xnodx

You're not giving it to me? I'd have a nice ceremony for it - including a bonfire and everything. xsmiley_wix xpeacex

[Pard94]

You're not giving it to me? I'd have a nice ceremony for it - including a bonfire and everything. xsmiley_wix xpeacex

No bonfire needed...it would disintegrate into dust at your very touch. xlolx

[the last indian]

Pard's championship ring is probably very valuable. After all there aren't very many of them around.

[Franks Tanks]

Pard's championship ring is probably very valuable. After all there aren't very many of them around.

6 PL championships (some shared)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

4-1 last week 27-10 overall

Lafayette 31 Fordham 20: Every time i pick against the 'Pards they make me look like fool so this week i'll go with the spotted kittens. I just think they're the more balanced team. Fordham hasn't beaten anyone of note to really make me think they can win this game

Colgate 24 Holy Cross 17: I'll go with Biddle in Co. to pull out a tough game in what should be sloppy conditions in MA. Randolph's legacy is sealed. He goes down as a great QB that never won anything.

Lehigh 21 Bucknell 7: I'm a little surprised a lot of people are picking Bucknell. Both teams stink but the Bison have been worse against comparable competition. Lehigh's defense is really good and i'll think they'll feast on the option in the rain. Bucknell hasn't beaten Lehigh since '97 which was also played in a rainstorm.

[Pard94]

6 PL championships (some shared)

That's a shot at...who? Me? Lafayette? Patriot League? Whatever...the fact that I have to ask renders it a pretty lame shot.

[Fordham]

Pard's championship ring is probably very valuable. After all there aren't very many of them around.

xconfusedx

1988
1992
1994
2004
2005
2006

[Pard94]

4-1 last week 27-10 overall

Lafayette 31 Fordham 20: Every time i pick against the 'Pards they make me look like fool so this week i'll go with the spotted kittens. I just think they're the more balanced team. Fordham hasn't beaten anyone of note to really make me think they can win this game

Colgate 24 Holy Cross 17: I'll go with Biddle in Co. to pull out a tough game in what should be sloppy conditions in MA. Randolph's legacy is sealed. He goes down as a great QB that never won anything.

Lehigh 21 Bucknell 7: I'm a little surprised a lot of people are picking Bucknell. Both teams stink but the Bison have been worse against comparable competition. Lehigh's defense is really good and i'll think they'll feast on the option in the rain. Bucknell hasn't beaten Lehigh since '97 which was also played in a rainstorm.

Could you please reverse your pick and choose Fordham to win? Please?

[RichH2]

Ok, FU will win.xnonono2x 94 , Skelton may get his 300 yds and some TDs but I have no doubt your D will suck up lots of sacks and some InTs. You would have to bring in Trey brown as your OC to lose xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

That's a shot at...who? Me? Lafayette? Patriot League? Whatever...the fact that I have to ask renders it a pretty lame shot.

I took it as a shot to Lafayette's percieved lack of PL championships. 6 isnt tops in the league, but its not too shabby.

[Pard94]

I took it as a shot to Lafayette's percieved lack of PL championships. 6 isnt tops in the league, but its not too shabby.

Well...he's either talking about me (in which case he's right...I own the only PL ring issued to me), Lafayette (in which case he's dumb as you and others have aptly pointed out) or the PL (in which case he hates his own league). Regardless...I rest my case...it was a lame attempt. I thought a Colgate guy could come up with better. Hence my confusion.

[carney2]

...if we lose this game I may just fling myself off of my roof. I should probably alert the wife and make sure our affairs are in order.

I'm wicked nervous as we say up here in New England.

This what you call role reversal. 94 is "wicked nervous," while I, noted curmudgeon and naysayer, am confident - not cocky, just confident. This team has brought that heretofore unknown aspect of my personality and emotional makeup to the surface. I have gone from hope to an expectation that they will run the table. Whodathunk you'd hear that from me first?!?

As for the flinging oneself from the roof thing, any chance I can get a video?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Sportsbook lines as of 10-23-2009 @ 2:30PM:

Princeton at Harvard

Princeton +18½
Harvard -18½


Brown at Cornell

Brown -6½
Cornell +6½


Colgate at Holy Cross

Colgate +4
Holy Cross -4


Fordham at Lafayette

Fordham +12½
Lafayette -12½


Lehigh at Bucknell

Lehigh -5
Bucknell +5


Columbia at Dartmouth

Columbia -11
Dartmouth +11


Yale at Pennsylvania

Yale +7½
Pennsylvania -7½

[carney2]

Randolph's legacy is sealed. He goes down as a great QB that never won anything.

Probably true, but this isn't the game that will seal his fate.

[carney2]

Princeton at Harvard

Princeton +18½
Harvard -18½


Brown at Cornell

Brown -6½
Cornell +6½


Colgate at Holy Cross

Colgate +4
Holy Cross -4


Fordham at Lafayette

Fordham +12½
Lafayette -12½


Lehigh at Bucknell

Lehigh -5
Bucknell +5


Columbia at Dartmouth

Columbia -11
Dartmouth +11


Yale at Pennsylvania

Yale +7½
Pennsylvania -7½

Cross and the Squawks will cover. Lafayette will not.

[Pards Rule]

Thats why I have them at 10 :) Going to watch another streaming video of it tomorrow on Long Beach Island!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At 24-14, my record has been horrible this year, including a 2-3 "lowlight" last week where I missed LU, LC, and Fordham. Hopefully, this week will see things turn around for me.

Sources:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/game-preview-lehigh-at-bucknell.html

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/10/23/the-csn-way-playoff-shoe-ins?blog=5

Lehigh at Bucknell. It looks to be a bad-weather game, one where the defenses rule the afternoon and the team that makes fewer mistakes will win. Last week, Lehigh's defense ruled but still lost the game on special teams and anemic offense. Will the offense pull it together enough to get the win?

I think they will. It won't be a pretty game. But Lehigh should have enough in the tank to win this game and give the fans some hope going into Halloween weekend.

Lehigh 24, Bucknell 9

Fordham at Lafayette. While Colgate and Holy Cross have gotten the Top 25 love this year from the Patriot League, quietly 5-1 Lafayette has been making an impression. After linebacker Michael Schmidlein helped demolish Harvard 31-18 this weekend at Harvard - making them “Ivy League Champions” after sweeping the Ivy league for the first time in recent memory - they welcome Fordham and the high-octane offense led by quarterback John Skelton to Easton. The hungry Leopards will feast on the Rams, and maybe re-enter the Top 25 as a result.

Schmiddle of the Defense 30, Skeltons In the Closet 16

No. 17 Colgate at No. 22 Holy Cross. It’s not the Patriot League championship game - Lafayette has plenty to say about that - but this is the game that will separate the men from the boys, and both Holy Cross head coach Tom Gilmore and Colgate head coach Dick Biddle know it. Undefeated Colgate boasts the No. 1-rated rushing offense in the nation, with a stable of running backs like Nate Eachus and Jordan McCord, while the Crusaders’ Dominic Randolph boasts the No. 2-rated passing offense in all of FCS. Two powerful offenses, and two very different styles: and once again, playoff hopes on the line -last year, Colgate’s 29-28 win over Holy Cross gave them the Patriot League title. Coach Gilmore has been using this loss to motivate his troops this here - in fact, it may be a large reason why Randolph chose to return for his fifth year - and I think the emotion, and the home crowd, gives this one to the running back Matt Bellomo and the Cross as they take another step towards that elusive title.

Cross Crosses Colgate 30, Biddle Bit By Matt Bellomo 24

Wish I could get to Worcester to watch that Cross game, that one could be a classic. Instead I'll be in DC, wishing Georgetown wasn't playing "Bye".

[ngineer]

It will be interesting to see how many file into Christy Matthewson to watch Lehigh and Bucknell. Most years, Lehigh brings a good contingent that exceeds Bucknell's followers. This year with Lehigh's woes and woeful weather, I'll be shocked if there are 2,000 in attendance.xsmhx

[LeopardBall10]

It'll be interesting to see the attendance numbers overall. For the last 5 seasons or so the league leader in attendance per game has been whoever holds the Laf-Lehigh game. I can't imagine the 'neers putting up any kind of numbers this year

[Franks Tanks]

It'll be interesting to see the attendance numbers overall. For the last 5 seasons or so the league leader in attendance per game has been whoever holds the Laf-Lehigh game. I can't imagine the 'neers putting up any kind of numbers this year

Unfortunanly an expected big Pard crowd tomorrow will be severly hurt by some terrible weather. Given our record and homecoming if the weather would've cooperated I think we could have expected 10-11k---oh well guess I will bring my raincoat for tomorrow.

[Franks Tanks]

It will be interesting to see how many file into Christy Matthewson to watch Lehigh and Bucknell. Most years, Lehigh brings a good contingent that exceeds Bucknell's followers. This year with Lehigh's woes and woeful weather, I'll be shocked if there are 2,000 in attendance.xsmhx

2,000 will be a win.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Weighing the Sportsbook lines against the weatherman's outlook, can any team in the northeast really win by two scores Saturday afternoon? In the case of "my" two teams, I fear that the Tigers might well fall to the Crimson by such a margin. And after last week's impressive go, I shall not wager against the Pards for the remainder of the season, no matter what. I am firmly aboard the bandwagon. Three yards and a cloud of well-hydrated polyethylene fiber will carry the day.

[Go...gate]

Bucknell 20, Lehigh 16

Colgate 27, Holy Cross 25

Lafayette 24, Fordham 13

[ngineer]

The Lehigh-Bucknell rivalry is now into its 75th meeting, closing in on the 77 games with Rutgers, that basically ended in 1977. The Bison and Engineers/Mountain Hawks have meet every year since 1950, second only the Lafayette in terms of consecutive games played. Not having beaten Lehigh since 1996, The Bison are expected to be skyhigh realizing that this year may be the best shot they have had in many years to win. I still think Lehigh will pull this out, primarily because of the great defense they have been playing, but the history here is interesting. Series currently in favor of Lehigh, 41-29-3, which means that until he current streak, the series was tied at 29-29-3.

[CrusaderBob]

Getting these in just under the wire.

3 - 2 Last Week
27 - 11 on the season.

Lehigh - Though the postings will be more entertaining if they lose

Lafayette - After picking Harvard lLast week I said fear not 'Pard fans because I had picked 1 Lafayette game correctly all year - it's was actually two (Georgetown & Columbia). Trying to make it 3!

Holy Cross - Rain will be light in Central Mass this afternoon. And though not great, the defense is improved over last year and we'll get at least one 3rd down stop this year - which was the issue in the second half (and all we needed for the win) last year. That and home field will be enough in another tight one.

[Go...gate]

Crusader Bob, congrats. Randolph and the man in Royal Purple are a fine ballclub.

[Bogus Megapardus]

2,000 will be a win.

6,288

[JoltinJoe]

Is there a team in the Patriot League who gets screwed more frequently than Fordham? I've held my tongue about it for a long time, but the hell with it. Its blatant. Its intentional.

I want out of this league. We cannot get a fair shake.

[TheValleyRaider]

Is there a team in the Patriot League who gets screwed more frequently than Fordham? I've held my tongue about it for a long time, but the hell with it. Its blatant. Its intentional.

I want out of this league. We cannot get a fair shake.

Did something happen in the Lafayette game? xconfusedx

[JoltinJoe]

Did something happen in the Lafayette game? xconfusedx

I would rather not talk about it.

Go Yankees.

[CrusaderBob]

Crusader Bob, congrats. Randolph and the man in Royal Purple are a fine ballclub.

Thank you, Go...gate. It was a well played game. Difference last year vs. this. HC got a few defensive stops. Colgate not enough.

Good luck the rest of the way!

[TheValleyRaider]

I would rather not talk about it.

Go Yankees.

Fair enough

Go Yankees xthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Is there a team in the Patriot League who gets screwed more frequently than Fordham? I've held my tongue about it for a long time, but the hell with it. Its blatant. Its intentional.

I want out of this league. We cannot get a fair shake.

C'mon, Jolter. You can't say something like that and not discuss. What the Hell happened in Easton?

[RichH2]

They lost a close game!

[JoltinJoe]

C'mon, Jolter. You can't say something like that and not discuss. What the Hell happened in Easton?

The usual lame penalty call for a non-existent personal foul, right after a huge defensive play, which caused a 20-yard swing on yardage and gave them a first down near midfield with just over 2 minutes to play. The type of BS personal foul call which the PL officials always flag us for late in a close game.

We finished at the nine as time lapsed. Really could have used those 20 years and 30 seconds.

I hope we get out of this league. I'm finished with this biased officiating.

[Franks Tanks]

Did something happen in the Lafayette game? xconfusedx

Nothing happened. A personal fould was called late in the game that was questionable but it in no wat decided the game.

[Pard94]

Did something happen in the Lafayette game? xconfusedx

Joe's pis*ed becuase in the fourth quarter one of the Fordham d-backs involved in a pile up tackle gave the Lafayette RB an extra push after the whistle blew. It was the kind of hit that didn't even make the RB fall down but it was after the whistle and it it was four feet from the ref's face. An iffy call I suppose but I reiterate...it was after the whistle and right in front of the ref. In other words a stupid play in a the kind of game you can't make any stupid plays in. It should be some consolation that the same ref allowed a Fordham special teamer to down the ball on the Lafayette 6 inch line on a punt despite his heels being clearly on the line (the replay was crystal clear). It was a terrible call that backed the Leopards up to their own goal line and ended up in a 3 and out and gave the Rams excellent field position that ended up in a score for them. The refs didn't win this one for Lafayette...the Leopards did.

As for Joe's burning desire to get out of the league....good riddance I say. Fordham has been a ungrateful, holier than thou member of the league since they kind of sort of joined years ago. Don't let the door hit you...

[RichH2]

Joe ,
Homer calls are a royal pain. Not just a PL issue however. FU kid definitely pushed the LC player well after the whistle. The call was not wrong just unfortunate.

[JoltinJoe]

Joe's pis*ed becuase in the fourth quarter one of the Fordham d-backs involved in a pile up tackle gave the Lafayette RB an extra push after the whistle blew. It was the kind of hit that didn't even make the RB fall down but it was after the whistle and it it was four feet from the ref's face. An iffy call I suppose but I reiterate...it was after the whistle and right in front of the ref. In other words a stupid play in a the kind of game you can't make any stupid plays in. It should be some consolation that the same ref allowed a Fordham special teamer to down the ball on the Lafayette 6 inch line on a punt despite his heels being clearly on the line (the replay was crystal clear). It was a terrible call that backed the Leopards up to their own goal line and ended up in a 3 and out and gave the Rams excellent field position that ended up in a score for them. The refs didn't win this one for Lafayette...the Leopards did.

As for Joe's burning desire to get out of the league....good riddance I say. Fordham has been a ungrateful, holier than thou member of the league since they kind of sort of joined years ago. Don't let the door hit you...

Actually, in the college game, you can have both feet squarely in the endzone, and as long as you stop the ball before it breaks the plane of the endzone, the ball will be marked at its location. College rule is different than the NFL rule. Ball location is all that matters in the college game. So the refs got that one right.

There is no way that the personal foul call had any legitimacy. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

[JoltinJoe]

Joe ,
Homer calls are a royal pain. Not just a PL issue however. FU kid definitely pushed the LC player well after the whistle. The call was not wrong just unfortunate.

The number of ticky-tack personal foul calls that have gone against us in close games, both home and away, against PL opponents over the years is far too numerous to pass off as "unfortunate."

Our kids get pushed after the whistle all the time. We never get a call like that, and especially not in a close game.

[Franks Tanks]

The number of ticky-tack personal foul calls that have gone against us in close games, both home and away, against PL opponents over the years is far too numerous to pass off as "unfortunate."

Our kids get pushed after the whistle all the time. We never get a call like that, and especially not in a close game.

I agree that the refs should let the kids play. However, your PL conspiracy theory is laughable. Every time Fordam loses some call by an official who is biased againt Fordham is the reason.

[Pard94]

Actually, in the college game, you can have both feet squarely in the endzone, and as long as you stop the ball before it breaks the plane of the endzone, the ball will be marked at its location. College rule is different than the NFL rule. Ball location is all that matters in the college game. So the refs got that one right.

There is no way that the personal foul call had any legitimacy. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

OK. You're right. Fordham is the victim of well orchestrated plot of corruption designed to assure they rarely ever exceed mediocrity in football. Damn. You found out. We're busted everybody. Call the NCAA.

Duh.

[Pard94]

The number of ticky-tack personal foul calls that have gone against us in close games, both home and away, against PL opponents over the years is far too numerous to pass off as "unfortunate."

Our kids get pushed after the whistle all the time. We never get a call like that, and especially not in a close game.

I know I have the secret letter somewhere in my files but I don't want to dig it out right now. Can you remind me again we the rest of the PL is plotting against Fordham? Thanks.

[DFW HOYA]

I know I have the secret letter somewhere in my files but I don't want to dig it out right now. Can you remind me again we the rest of the PL is plotting against Fordham? Thanks.

The new league-wide AI hurts Fordham's previous ability to recruit under the bands of the other schools.

[JoltinJoe]

I agree that the refs should let the kids play. However, your PL conspiracy theory is laughable. Every time Fordam loses some call by an official who is biased againt Fordham is the reason.

Where did I say this call cost us the game? What I said is that it was a lame call, with no basis, late in the game, which impacted on the outcome.

And these types of calls go us against us all the time in PL games. What are we supposed to think? Laugh all you want. I really don't care. You guys are comparing this call, late in the game, with some prior call by the same ref which went against Lafayette -- and it turns out that you guys don't even know the applicable rule. Now that's what is truly laughable.

[Pard94]

The new league-wide AI hurts Fordham's previous ability to recruit under the bands of the other schools.

Oh right. Thanks Hoya. I think there was also something in there about Knights Templar and the New World Order as well. Today we hold down Fordham...tomorrow...the world!

[Go...gate]

Joe's pis*ed becuase in the fourth quarter one of the Fordham d-backs involved in a pile up tackle gave the Lafayette RB an extra push after the whistle blew. It was the kind of hit that didn't even make the RB fall down but it was after the whistle and it it was four feet from the ref's face. An iffy call I suppose but I reiterate...it was after the whistle and right in front of the ref. In other words a stupid play in a the kind of game you can't make any stupid plays in. It should be some consolation that the same ref allowed a Fordham special teamer to down the ball on the Lafayette 6 inch line on a punt despite his heels being clearly on the line (the replay was crystal clear). It was a terrible call that backed the Leopards up to their own goal line and ended up in a 3 and out and gave the Rams excellent field position that ended up in a score for them. The refs didn't win this one for Lafayette...the Leopards did.

As for Joe's burning desire to get out of the league....good riddance I say. Fordham has been a ungrateful, holier than thou member of the league since they kind of sort of joined years ago. Don't let the door hit you...

Come on, no need for this. Everybody cool off.

[carney2]

Did something happen in the Lafayette game? xconfusedx

With about 2:30 to go and Fordham just having scored to close to 26-21, Lafayette had the ball and ran Maurice White for no gain on their own 29 after receiving the kick. White was pushed back but never went down. Fordham DB James Crockett was the last guy to have White, and after the whistle gave him an extra shove. It was a harmless thing, really, and I agree with Joe, should not have been called. The result was a Lafayette 1st down, moving the ball to the Lafayette 44.

Fordham played a great game and things did not go as anyone on this board predicted. The Fordham defense put up a real battle, perhaps showing a glaring Lafayette weakness in its offensive line. Fordham had very few of the big plays that they are known for. Credit the Lafayette defense for a superb 60 minutes. The difference was the Lafayette receivers, particular sophomore Mitchell Bennett who had a great game. A nail biter down to the wire. Anyone from here on who looks at Fordham's record and expects an easy time of it is in for a shock.

[Pard94]

Where did I say this call cost us the game? What I said is that it was a lame call, with no basis, late in the game, which impacted on the outcome.

And these types of calls go us against us all the time in PL games. What are we supposed to think? Laugh all you want. I really don't care. You guys are comparing this call, late in the game, with some prior call by the same ref which went against Lafayette -- and it turns out that you guys don't even know the applicable rule. Now that's what is truly laughable.

So the Ram who actually pushed the Leopard after the whistle and in front of the ref...he's the victim right?

[RichH2]

Well Joe, I am not too into conspiracy theories, but if thats your thing WOW you'll have a great time next year when we really will be after you guysxsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

With about 2:30 to go and Fordham just having scored to close to 26-21, Lafayette had the ball and ran Maurice White for no gain on their own 29 after receiving the kick. White was pushed back but never went down. Fordham DB James Crockett was the last guy to have White, and after the whistle gave him an extra shove. It was a harmless thing, really, and I agree with Joe, should not have been called. The result was a Lafayette 1st down, moving the ball to the Lafayette 44.

Fordham played a great game and things did not go as anyone on this board predicted. The Fordham defense put up a real battle, perhaps showing a glaring Lafayette weakness in its offensive line. Fordham had very few of the big plays that they are known for. Credit the Lafayette defense for a superb 60 minutes. The difference was the Lafayette receivers, particular sophomore Mitchell Bennett who had a great game. A nail biter down to the wire. Anyone from here on who looks at Fordham's record and expects an easy time of it is in for a shock.

What happened against Colgate was unfortunate - I did not see it live, so I'll take Joe's word for it, as he is a reliable poster on both the VoyForums and AGS board, and his word is damned good - but stuff like this happens all over. I watch the Penn State - Michigan game and it would have been worse than 35-10 but the refs also gave the Wolverines a couple of friendly calls.

[Pard94]

Come on, no need for this. Everybody cool off.

Please. I'm not the one coming in here cr*aping on the league. This is just the latest flare up from certain Fordham supporters as to why the PL sucks and they are somehow better than the league (despite years and years of evidence to the contarary). If they want to leave so bad make it happen and leave already.

[Pard94]

What happened against Colgate was unfortunate - I did not see it live, so I'll take Joe's word for it, as he is a reliable poster on both the VoyForums and AGS board, and his word is damned good - but stuff like this happens all over. I watch the Penn State - Michigan game and it would have been worse than 35-10 but the refs also gave the Wolverines a couple of friendly calls.

So you're going with the conspiracy theory because Joe says so. OK. Joe, what's your take on the Kennedy assassination?

Incidentally I am one of the original members of this board. I don't post as much as Joe but then again I rarely have contributions as creative as Joe's to make.

[JoltinJoe]

So the Ram who actually pushed the Leopard after the whistle and in front of the ref...he's the victim right?

Perhaps if you read carney's post, you will get it. The call shouldn't have been made.

Second and 14 from the 25 is a lot different than first and 10 from the 44 with just over two minutes to play.

This is football, for goodness sake. Kids are fired up when they make a big play. Flagging someone for a "personal foul" for an incidental shove resulting from the passion of the moment, rather than intent or malciouness, is poor officiating.

And yet our kids repeatedly get flagged for displays of passion, at critical points of the game, and I just never see comparable flags being thrown against our PL opponents. The lack of objectivity of PL officials on this type of call -- and especially the suspicious timing of these calls over the years -- has become too clear to ignore.

[Go...gate]

Please. I'm not the one coming in here cr*aping on the league. This is just the latest flare up from certain Fordham supporters as to why the PL sucks and they are somehow better than the league (despite years and years of evidence to the contarary). If they want to leave so bad make it happen and leave already.

Take it easy. He crapped on the referees. And they CAN screw up games. The situation at the end of the Colgate - Fordham game was unfortunate, as well.

[Pard94]

Take it easy. He crapped on the referees. And they CAN screw up games. The situation at the end of the Colgate - Fordham game was unfortunate, as well.

Read it over Gate...he crapped on the league. He's tired of the league. He want's fordham out of the league. These refs are just the latest in a string of refs. His feelings aren't unclear.

[Go...gate]

So you're going with the conspiracy theory because Joe says so. OK. Joe, what's your take on the Kennedy assassination?

Incidentally I am one of the original members of this board. I don't post as much as Joe but then again I rarely have contributions as creative as Joe's to make.

I'm not casting aspersion on you, 94. I've been on the board a while too, though not as long as you. I'm giving Joe the benefit of the doubt here.

[JoltinJoe]

What happened against Colgate was unfortunate - I did not see it live, so I'll take Joe's word for it, as he is a reliable poster on both the VoyForums and AGS board, and his word is damned good - but stuff like this happens all over. I watch the Penn State - Michigan game and it would have been worse than 35-10 but the refs also gave the Wolverines a couple of friendly calls.

I watched the Colgate game on-line, so I have no idea if the snap happened before the time expired.

What bothered me was that no official waved off the play while it was happening. It was only after we scored that the officials convened and decided time had lapsed. How can you let a play run to conclusioin and then decide it doesn't count?

[Pard94]

I'm not casting aspersion on you, 94. I've been on the board a while too, though not as long as you. I'm giving Joe the benefit of the doubt here.

Joe, who happens to be representing a consiparcy theory, gets the benefit of the doubt. OK. Got it.

[Go...gate]

Read it over Gate...he crapped on the league. He's tired of the league. He want's fordham out of the league. These refs are just the latest in a string of refs. His feelings aren't unclear.

That's why I said everybody should take it easy, 94!

Give me a break here.

[Go...gate]

Joe, who happens to be representing a consiparcy theory, gets the benefit of the doubt. OK. Got it.

He was pissed off. Doesn't that ever happen to you?

[JoltinJoe]

Read it over Gate...he crapped on the league. He's tired of the league. He want's fordham out of the league. These refs are just the latest in a string of refs. His feelings aren't unclear.

I have no beef with the league. I've always been happy with our association with the PL.

It is the league officials I have a problem with. If they are not going to give us a fair shake, then we need to go somewhere else.

[Pard94]

Perhaps if you read carney's post, you will get it. The call shouldn't have been made.

Second and 14 from the 25 is a lot different than first and 10 from the 44 with just over two minutes to play.

This is football, for goodness sake. Kids are fired up when they make a big play. Flagging someone for a "personal foul" for an incidental shove resulting from the passion of the moment, rather than intent or malciouness, is poor officiating.

And yet our kids repeatedly get flagged for displays of passion, at critical points of the game, and I just never see comparable flags being thrown against our PL opponents. The lack of objectivity of PL officials on this type of call -- and especially the suspicious timing of these calls over the years -- has become too clear to ignore.

Perhaps if you read Rich's post you will get it. It was a penalty. Now you can argue that it was a bad call if you want (I disagree). You can argue that the situation in the game should some how warrant a different interpertation of the rules (again I disagree with you). But to come in here slinging crap at the league and talking about a conspiracy against Fordham? Now we're not laughing with you...we're laughing at you. Again, what's the motive for this conspiracy theory? You have yet to tell us that.

[Pard94]

I have no beef with the league. I've always been happy with our association with the PL.

It is the league officials I have a problem with. If they are not going to give us a fair shake, then we need to go somewhere else.

Sorry. I misunderstood the part where you said, "Is there a team in the Patriot League who gets screwed more frequently than Fordham? I've held my tongue about it for a long time, but the hell with it. Its blatant. Its intentional. I want out of this league. We cannot get a fair shake."

[RichH2]

Geez guys, Joe is a good guy whose team lost a tough game He's allowed to b*tch and we're allowed to make fun of him. Let's not get too serious here.

[Go...gate]

Geez guys, Joe is a good guy whose team lost a tough game He's allowed to b*tch and we're allowed to make fun of him. Let's not get too serious here.

That's what I'm trying to say, as well.

[JoltinJoe]

Perhaps if you read Rich's post you will get it. It was a penalty. Now you can argue that it was a bad call if you want (I disagree). You can argue that the situation in the game should some how warrant a different interpertation of the rules (again I disagree with you). But to come in here slinging crap at the league and talking about a conspiracy against Fordham? Now we're not laughing with you...we're laughing at you. Again, what's the motive for this conspiracy theory? You have yet to tell us that.

You're laughing at me? Who cares? You don't even know the rules of the game. You came on here blabbering about a call that supposedly went against Lafayette -- and yet you didn't even know the applicable rule. You don't think that knowledgeable posters on a college football message board are laughing about that?

[JoltinJoe]

Geez guys, Joe is a good guy whose team lost a tough game He's allowed to b*tch and we're allowed to make fun of him. Let's not get too serious here.

Hey, Rich, I just want to point out that I never said this call cost us the game. It was a weak call which came at a critical moment -- we needed a three-and-out and had just stuffed the run on first down. In the end, it cost us yards and time, when we could afford to lose neither, but you can't say that it definitely changed the outcome of the game.

[ngineer]

I agree w/Rich. Lehigh got 'homered' on a couple similar calls today, i.e. some shoving after the whistle, but no real hitting, but resulted in flags. Over 100 yards in penalties...I've always had a problem with the 'ticky tack' penalty, but at the same time realize the officials want to control the game and not let things get out of hand. Our students in the PL should be smart enough to realize that anytime you do anything after the whistle you're subject to a flag. I was pissed today listening on the radio to Lehigh's kids getting flagged for the same stuff, but was pissed at the kid who should know better rather than the referee.

[Sader87]

Can't wait to see what kinds of calls we get next week in the Bronx....

[Pard94]

Geez guys, Joe is a good guy whose team lost a tough game He's allowed to b*tch and we're allowed to make fun of him. Let's not get too serious here.

I'm sure he's a fine guy. We won a hard fought game. We've ALL been the victim of questionable calls. I've never seen anyone call conspiracy until now. I rarely comment on half the crap that goes on on this board (as evidenced by my low post count over the years). Perhaps Joe is reacting to the tough loss. Regardless, as a Lafayette fan I don't care for the remarks that somehow Lafayette didn't earn that win. I get even more rankled when he takes shots at the league (which I know he is rarely guilty of doing). The PL is the brunt of a lot of jokes and snide remarks from outsiders on this board who don't know the league or somehow don't get it. There's no lack of evidence that many Fordham supporters are not altogether thrilled with their affiliation with the PL. It's there perogative but it gets old to listen to.

I have been told that perhaps I tend to go "nuclear" a tad too quickly. I know Joe is a very regular and respected contributor to the board. He certainly has earned a little leeway from me for what that is worth. I still totally disagree with your point Joe, but I apologize for ratcheting up the rhetoric to a level it probably didn't need to go.

[Pard94]

Hey, Rich, I just want to point out that I never said this call cost us the game. It was a weak call which came at a critical moment -- we needed a three-and-out and had just stuffed the run on first down. In the end, it cost us yards and time, when we could afford to lose neither, but you can't say that it definitely changed the outcome of the game.

Incidentally I took my cue from the broadcasters who seemed confident that Lafayette got screwed on that call. I assumed they knew what they were talking about. My bad.

[JoltinJoe]

Incidentally I took my cue from the broadcasters who seemed confident that Lafayette got screwed on that call. I assumed they knew what they were talking about. My bad.

There's a reason why my first post was that I didn't want to talk about this. Probably should have heeded my own advice. xthumbsupx

[ngineer]

There's a reason why my first post was that I didn't want to talk about this. Probably should have heeded my own advice. xthumbsupx


Yes, you did say that...That'll learn ya! Go with the gut. Sort of like some of the 'spleen' letters I've written to opposing counsel in the past, and left in my desk overnight only to be torn up the next day.xnodx

[RichH2]

Yup, should always follow the gutxthumbsupx both Joe and 94 are good guys and add a lot to this board. Now I want to see how 94 reacts to the refs I hired for the LU-LC game. All Lehigh grads , who promise solemnly to be impartialxhurrayx

[Pard94]

Yup, should always follow the gutxthumbsupx both Joe and 94 are good guys and add a lot to this board. Now I want to see how 94 reacts to the refs I hired for the LU-LC game. All Lehigh grads , who promise solemnly to be impartialxhurrayx

I'm not sure if even those refs will be enough to help you this year.

Sorry about that. Just a little good natured pre-rivalry smack talk. We are getting closer afterall. xpeacex

[RichH2]

No need to apologize, alls fair for THE game. Sadly you may be right.

[TheValleyRaider]

Interesting bit of fire on the PL threads. Kinda unusual for us

These threads really have been interesting the last few weeks xreadx

[Franks Tanks]

Where did I say this call cost us the game? What I said is that it was a lame call, with no basis, late in the game, which impacted on the outcome.

And these types of calls go us against us all the time in PL games. What are we supposed to think? Laugh all you want. I really don't care. You guys are comparing this call, late in the game, with some prior call by the same ref which went against Lafayette -- and it turns out that you guys don't even know the applicable rule. Now that's what is truly laughable.

I messed up on the rule-- my bad.

The refs were heavy on the whistle all day. The persona foull call penalty was borderline at best, but c'mon this is somehow indicitive of a vast conspriacy againt Fordham? Take a step back and think about what you are saying.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I want out of this league.

I saw a Fordham team that deliberately attempted to literally pull the helmets off the heads of Lafayette players. They succeeded at least three or four times, but were not called for it. I'm sorry, JoltinJoe, but in my view, the entire Fordham team should have forfeited the game. It was that egregious. Watch the game replay if you don't believe me.

[JoltinJoe]

[/B]


Yes, you did say that...That'll learn ya! Go with the gut. Sort of like some of the 'spleen' letters I've written to opposing counsel in the past, and left in my desk overnight only to be torn up the next day.xnodx

Hah! I've done that too. Helps to write it, but the client really isn't paying us to react out of anger. The great temptor is the "reply" button on email ... I have a policy that I will never reply to an adversary's email, no matter what, for at least 24 hours. Drives them nuts, especially when they're trying to bait you and they expect you to respond almost immediatelty.

[JoltinJoe]

I saw a Fordham team that deliberately attempted to literally pull the helmets off the heads of Lafayette players. They succeeded at least three or four times, but were not called for it. I'm sorry, JoltinJoe, but in my view, the entire Fordham team should have forfeited the game. It was that egregious. Watch the game replay if you don't believe me.

I really have no desire to continue this conversation; but are you seriously asserting that the Fordham team engaged in obvious personal fouls all day, and were not called for them, but then were whistled for an incidental shove with 2:30 to play? The refs let all those blatant calls go but then whistled something frivolous?

I watched on line and saw nothing like this.

[65 Pard]

I really have no desire to continue this conversation; but are you seriously asserting that the Fordham team engaged in obvious personal fouls all day, and were not called for them, but then were whistled for an incidental shove with 2:30 to play? The refs let all those blatant calls go but then whistled something frivolous?

I watched on line and saw nothing like this.

Hey Joe, methinks he's pulling your chain.....

[Bogus Megapardus]

I really have no desire to continue this conversation; but are you seriously asserting that the Fordham team engaged in obvious personal fouls all day, and were not called for them, but then were whistled for an incidental shove with 2:30 to play? The refs let all those blatant calls go but then whistled something frivolous?

I watched on line and saw nothing like this.

The shove by Fordham's #5 was a "last straw" thing, I think. The refs had an eye on him for most of the game - and it would not surprise me if the Pards were smack-talking him a bit to goad in into that shove. It was a shove that typically would no have been called.

But I am serious about the helmets. I was very concerned during the game that someone was going to get seriously hurt. The Ram grabbing inside the helmets to tackle all afternoon. Not a one was called.



http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/m-footbl/auto_wide/3755102.jpeg

[Franks Tanks]

The shove by Fordham's #5 was a "last straw" thing, I think. The refs had an eye on him for most of the game - and it would not surprise me if the Pards were smack-talking him a bit to goad in into that shove. It was a shove that typically would no have been called.

But I am serious about the helmets. I was very concerned during the game that someone was going to get seriously hurt. The Ram grabbing inside the helmets to tackle all afternoon. Not a one was called.



http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/m-footbl/auto_wide/3755102.jpeg

Bogus-- It is clear that photo was doctored by PL officials to help explain away the clear ref bias toward the Rams.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogus-- It is clear that photo was doctored by PL officials to help explain away the clear ref bias toward the Rams.

Lawyered, not doctored, perhaps . . .

[JoltinJoe]

Bogus-- It is clear that photo was doctored by PL officials to help explain away the clear ref bias toward the Rams.

You really can't tell much from the photo, because what preceded and what followed is as equally important as what you see. If the grab to the helmet is incidental, or if the player inadvertently grabbed the helmet and then releases immediately, the infraction is not a personal foul.

[Bogus Megapardus]

You really can't tell much from the photo, because what preceded and what followed is as equally important as what you see. If the grab to the helmet is incidental, or if the player inadvertently grabbed the helmet and then releases immediately, the infraction is not a personal foul.


I saw the whole thing. This and several others. I can honestly say I was never so disturbed in all my life both as to the patent danger to the players and to the obviousness with which the officiating crew was overlooking these very serious Fordham infractions. In the pictured play, the Fordham defender put both his hands under the helmet and jerked arms back, tearing the helmet from the players head. I watched it vividly. It went on all day. I am inspired to write to league officials about this - something I never have done in the past.

[Pard94]

You really can't tell much from the photo, because what preceded and what followed is as equally important as what you see. If the grab to the helmet is incidental, or if the player inadvertently grabbed the helmet and then releases immediately, the infraction is not a personal foul.

I have no wish to get back into this either but I feel compelled to say the play in question was not incidental. The Lafayette player got up looking for the flag and was surprised not to get it. The broadcasters made mention of it and showed it on the replay. No call on an obvious one. But as I've said all along...bad calls go in both directions.

If I were the Fordham player I'd have that photo blown up and hanging in my dorm. It's pretty bad ass. Illegal as hell but bad ass nonetheless.

[Pard94]

Uh oh...may I present Exihibit B, Counselor...

[JoltinJoe]

Uh oh...may I present Exihibit B, Counselor...

So perhaps they missed that.

They also missed the safety that Fordham scored against the Leopards.

It doesn't change the fact that the late personal foul call was not a good call. Refs aren't perfect; however, the beef with the personal foul call is it is not only that it is subjective, but also came late in the game and is thus difficult to recover from.

A bad call at 10:00 in the 2Q leaves a lot of time to recover. A bad call with 2:00 in the 4Q leaves little recovery time and is especially unfortunate in a close game.

[Pard94]

So perhaps they missed that.

They also missed the safety that Fordham scored against the Leopards.

It doesn't change the fact that the late personal foul call was not a good call. Refs aren't perfect; however, the beef with the personal foul call is that it is not only that it is subjective, but also came late in the game and is thus difficult to recover from.

A bad call at 10:00 in the 2Q leaves a lot of time to recover. A bad call with 2:00 in the 4Q leaves little recovery time and is especially unfortunate in a close game.

Covered ground, Joe. I am now officially extricating myself from this conversation.

[carney2]

It doesn't deserve it, but one last note on this senseless argument that Patriot League game officials have some sort of a conspiratorial vendetta going against Fordham. This morning's blog from Paul Reinhard, the retired sports editor and now Lafayette beat writer for Allentown's Morning Call, addressed this point specifically. He pointed out that the "bad calls" were not one sided in this affair, and that Lafayette's Frank Tavani had equal cause for complaint. Reinhard devoted quite a bit of ink to Tom Masella's "whining," but here is a key quote:

"...on Saturday, he [Masella] was entirely too much of a whiner. Lafayette did not deserve the slap. The Leopards whipped his Rams fair and square. Get on with it."

Check the scoreboard and the stats if you doubt the veracity of this statement.

For the interested, here is a link to the complete article:

http://blogs.mcall.com/sports/

[JoltinJoe]

It doesn't deserve it, but one last note on this senseless argument that Patriot League game officials have some sort of a conspiratorial vendetta going against Fordham. This morning's blog from Paul Reinhard, the retired sports editor and now Lafayette beat writer for Allentown's Morning Call, addressed this point specifically. He pointed out that the "bad calls" were not one sided in this affair, and that Lafayette's Frank Tavani had equal cause for complaint. Reinhard devoted quite a bit of ink to Tom Masella's "whining," but here is a key quote:

"...on Saturday, he [Masella] was entirely too much of a whiner. Lafayette did not deserve the slap. The Leopards whipped his Rams fair and square. Get on with it."

Check the scoreboard and the stats if you doubt the veracity of this statement.

For the interested, here is a link to the complete article:

http://blogs.mcall.com/sports/

Carney, I think the mistake is to view this as something which is exclusively related to the Lafayette game.

There is frustration boiling over something that has been evident for a period of time. What Masella is now saying is something which has been said, quietly, by Fordham supporters among themselves for a period of time now. We haven't "gone public" previously because you simply cannot win when you complain about the officiating. No matter what, you sound like a whiner when you do that.

For me, though, the mishandling of the Colgate game was the final straw. You can mark my words: if the shoe was on the other foot, and Colgate had scored a TD in those circumstances, there is no way -- NO WAY -- the officials would have decided, after the TD, that the play did not count. The only team in the conference they would have pulled that on is Fordham.

[carney2]

Carney, I think the mistake is to view this as something which is exclusively related to the Lafayette game.

There is frustration boiling over something that has been evident for a period of time. What Masella is now saying is something which has been said, quietly, by Fordham supporters among themselves for a period of time now. We haven't "gone public" previously because you simply cannot win when you complain about the officiating. No matter what, you sound like a whiner when you do that.

For me, though, the mishandling of the Colgate game was the final straw. You can mark my words: if the shoe was on the other foot, and Colgate had scored a TD in those circumstances, there is no way -- NO WAY -- the officials would have decided, after the TD, that the play did not count. The only team in the conference they would have pulled that on is Fordham.

I really don't want to keep this going, but...

I have not scene the play in question from the Fordham @ Colgate game, but I remember reading somewhere - probably in this thread - that someone with no apparent affiliation with either school had seen the replay a few times and thought that the officials made the right call. In any event, I, like almost everyone on this board, find it inconceivable that the Patriot League and its game officials somehow have a vendetta going against the Rams. Why? Scholarships? Why not also go after Holy Cross then for their basketball decison that opened the door to all of this? It is positively ludicrous.

[RichH2]

Joe,

I know the rhetoric here has gone a bit nuclear but why dont we all rein it in a bit. PL isn't kicking FU around to keep them from winning conference in their last eligible year. No one gave Rams a shot at title this year even with Skelton. Gate and HC too good. LC a bit of a surprise as is LU but for much different reasons.

I do understand the picked on feeling. When LU was on its run everyone hated us and when we were bad everyone laughed at us. OK, so what. There is always the next game to play. Much more important than hurt feelings. Man up Joe.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I really don't want to keep this going, but...

Why not also go after Holy Cross then for their basketball decision that opened the door to all of this?


. . . which brings us to next week's predictions, namely Holy Cross v. Fordham. Maybe the officiating crew should just stay home for that one. :D