Lehigh - Georgetown game thread

[RichH2]

While limited interest in this match between 2 0fer teams many of us die hards will follow.xrolleyesx



Question Hoya fans Is there a radio outlet in DC to listen to game , other than the AllAccess listed. Thanks for any info you can give.

[HoyaMetanoia]

No. There's not.

[RichH2]

Thanks, guess we'll make do with following AGS on the phone.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Yahoo is streaming this game live. Not to worry.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/collegebroadcast


C'mon Hoyas! You guys can do it!

[RichH2]

Yup, I know but I'll be out during the game , so its AGS on the Web from my phone

[Bogus Megapardus]

Yup, I know but I'll be out during the game , so its AGS on the Web from my phone

You could probably stream the Yahoo feed on your phone as well. I am going to watch the Yahoo stream of the Hoyas vs. Brown Pants contest, then drive up to Easton for the Columbia/Lafayette game, which should be entertaining, to say the very least.

I so want the Hoyas to win this one!

[RichH2]

Well Mega, cant say I agree about Hoyas but good luck against Columbia.
By the way you are probably correct but I qualify as an Old Fogie with the concommitant lack of expertise with these new fangled gadgets. Before you leap for the obvious joke I was a history major.

Win one for the PL

[Ivytalk]

Lehigh by 12.

[hawkineer]

Well Mega, cant say I agree about Hoyas but good luck against Columbia.
By the way you are probably correct but I qualify as an Old Fogie with the concommitant lack of expertise with these new fangled gadgets. Before you leap for the obvious joke I was a history major.

Win one for the PL
Rich, Rich, Rich SOOOOOO disappointed!xnonox

Watch how to do this:xreadx
GO COLUMBIA!

Don't need what's it name winning anything for the Patriot League!

[RichH2]

Ah well,xoopsx given the current status of the PL , we need all the wins we can get. Admit to being a bit conflicted but not because its LC, if we do well enuf OOC then the a**es who run our PL might figure that scholarships are not necessary long termxnonono2x

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh by 12.

It's never been closer than 20 before, so 12 would be an accomplishment when you're averaging seven points a game.

[RichH2]

With this game, it maybe that Ivytalk meant a TOTAL of 12 points xnodx

[ngineer]

Looks like some light rain yet this am, but should stop by noon. So a wet field, but sunny skies for game time. In all the years of following Lehigh, I can't recall a more important game as to its possible impact on the program, than this one. A nice win, and momentum can be created for this young team going into the Yale game, also winnable, thereby creating some confidence. However, a loss and the ability of the team to not continue a downward spiral will be tough.

I think the Mountain Hawks will feel the mojo and put up some nice numbers. Lehigh 31-10.

[RichH2]

I fear that we may have a " What the hell just happened" game. We always seem to have at least 1 a year, as of today we are good until 2012xnonox for those cringe games. It would be great for my mental health ( which is suspect anyway) to have a few complete games in a row. You know good O, good D and good ST all on the same dayxthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Lehigh throws the shutout, 27-0! Congrats to the Mountain Hawks!xnodxxthumbsupx

[Go...gate]

Congrats to Lehigh!

[DFW HOYA]

Another bad loss: seven straight, 15 of 16, 20 of 21 in the PL. This team could arguably be worse in 2010 if recruiting and/or retention go south.

So from a perspective outside of a Georgetown fan, is this an issue of talent or coaching?

[CFBfan]

Another bad loss: seven straight, 15 of 16, 20 of 21 in the PL. This team could arguably be worse in 2010 if recruiting and/or retention go south.

So from a perspective outside of a Georgetown fan, is this an issue of talent or coaching?

well, Lehigh had no more talent than Georgetown so the conclusioon has to be coaching! I was at the game and it was one of the most pathetic offensive schemes I have ever witnessed. These coaches not only have NO CLUE how to game plan or call a game, they do not know how to use the personel they have. It is truly sad. One has to feel bad for those kids, they deserve better!!

[ngineer]

The problem with Georgetown is their lack of size in the trenches. Lehigh dominated the LOS. Over 200 yards rushing. Hoyas had -21 net yards after the 8 sacks are factored in. Georgetown tried to throw-but how many were behind the LOS?! Unbelieveable. Gtown has some talent in the skills areas but they couldn't get open space, nor time to throw. The QB, with time, may be okay, but he was running for his life most of the time.

Lehigh's O was erratic. They definitely went with the run game, but every so often felt compelled to throw, which more times than not just screwed up the momentum.

However, it was a VERY windy day, and not good for the kicking or throwing, so some consideration has to be given.

At least we're off the schneid...Next week will tell whether there is a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a locomotive.xnodx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I was at the Syracuse-WVU game so i didn't get to see the game although i'll watch part of it on the internet. From what i gather it wasn't any better than the slugfest i saw the only good thing is WVU will be a FBS top 25 team by the end of the year.

I expect to see the offense still struggling and the defense carrying the team. Even with the "W" which should have been a given it's hard to see them winning more than 1 or 2 more games. The inability to improve on offense is amazing. Time will tell of course.

[colorless raider]

Another bad loss: seven straight, 15 of 16, 20 of 21 in the PL. This team could arguably be worse in 2010 if recruiting and/or retention go south.

So from a perspective outside of a Georgetown fan, is this an issue of talent or coaching?

you must be kidding!! It's COACHING11

[CFBfan]

The problem with Georgetown is their lack of size in the trenches. Lehigh dominated the LOS. Over 200 yards rushing. Hoyas had -21 net yards after the 8 sacks are factored in. Georgetown tried to throw-but how many were behind the LOS?! Unbelieveable. Gtown has some talent in the skills areas but they couldn't get open space, nor time to throw. The QB, with time, may be okay, but he was running for his life most of the time.

Lehigh's O was erratic. They definitely went with the run game, but every so often felt compelled to throw, which more times than not just screwed up the momentum.

However, it was a VERY windy day, and not good for the kicking or throwing, so some consideration has to be given.

At least we're off the schneid...Next week will tell whether there is a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a locomotive.xnodx

Georgetown ran the SAME 4 pass plays ALL game...4!!! and NEVER even attempted to stretch the field NEVER! allowing the safetys to cheat way up and the corners to play agressive because they knew the routes!! IT"S COACHING!!! yes not much time to throw BUT why?? SAME 4 plays allowing the D to not worry about the run AND to create time you can roll out and sprint out and THEY NEVER DID!! NOT ONCE!! IT"S COACHING or more accurately LACK of coaching!!! I have never ween worse then this!

[HoyaMetanoia]

Georgetown ran the SAME 4 pass plays ALL game...4!!! and NEVER even attempted to stretch the field NEVER! allowing the safetys to cheat way up and the corners to play agressive because they knew the routes!! IT"S COACHING!!! yes not much time to throw BUT why?? SAME 4 plays allowing the D to not worry about the run AND to create time you can roll out and sprint out and THEY NEVER DID!! NOT ONCE!! IT"S COACHING or more accurately LACK of coaching!!! I have never ween worse then this!

Why did you believe things would be any different when your son was recruited?

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=HoyaMetanoia;1430817]Why did you believe things would be any different when your son was recruited?[/QUOTE

fair question but first, my post was in response to the question posted earlier in this thread "is it talent or is it coaching".
My son slected Georgetown for reasons other than it's football program. He was recruited by every PL team except Bucknell and several of the Ivies in addition to a lot of other 1AA's. He is not going to play in the NFL so the priority was academic opportunity and location. Georgetown was right there with or better than every other school academicaly (sorry Ivies) and the location was at least in his (and my humble) opinion better than every other school.
That being said, neither of us really thought that the program was this bad! There is some talent on this team....not to win a national tiltle or even a PL title BUT more than enough to be competetive and that is what we thought would happen. He still loves the School, the people and the area. It's a shame that football has so far been such a let down. I hope that this answers your question...

[Franks Tanks]

[QUOTE=HoyaMetanoia;1430817]Why did you believe things would be any different when your son was recruited?[/QUOTE

fair question but first, my post was in response to the question posted earlier in this thread "is it talent or is it coaching".
My son slected Georgetown for reasons other than it's football program. He was recruited by every PL team except Bucknell and several of the Ivies in addition to a lot of other 1AA's. He is not going to play in the NFL so the priority was academic opportunity and location. Georgetown was right there with or better than every other school academicaly (sorry Ivies) and the location was at least in his (and my humble) opinion better than every other school.
That being said, neither of us really thought that the program was this bad! There is some talent on this team....not to win a national tiltle or even a PL title BUT more than enough to be competetive and that is what we thought would happen. He still loves the School, the people and the area. It's a shame that football has so far been such a let down. I hope that this answers your question...

Sorry--the talent at G-town is lacking as well. This is partially the coaches fault as well for poor recruiting, but it also comes down to $ dolled out to players. The Hoya coaches are bad, but the talent isnt much better. No way the Hoyas have as much talent as the other teams in the PL.

Sounds like your son is a talented player and prized recruit--problem is not many like him also choose the Hoya's.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=CFBfan;1430844]

Sorry--the talent at G-town is lacking as well. This is partially the coaches fault as well for poor recruiting, but is also comes down to $ dolled out to players. The Hoya coaches are bad, but the talent isnt much better.

You're not going to get talented players, coaches, trainers, water boys etc. at Georgetown until the school commits to the program which they've made it clear they won't. What coach is going to go there knowing the facilities and school support? What players are going to go there? The whole thing is a mess. The Hoyas simply can't compete at this level. They really should consider either leaving the league or dropping football. Temple wasn't even as bad as the Hoyas are now when we got the boot from the Big East.

[carney2]

Cody Fedorcha, the color guy on the Lehigh radio broadcasts, had the following to say about Georgetown:

"It is painful watching this Georgetown offense."

"They [I assume he was referring to the coaches] just don't give the kids a chance to win. It's as if the whole offense is designed just to keep things close."

I'm hoping that DFW reads this and chimes in with his comments.

[colgate13]

[QUOTE=Franks Tanks;1431128]

They really should consider either leaving the league or dropping football.

Let's hope not because the PL would be screwed for the short term.

It's sad really, because G'Town is the sleeping giant of our league. They have (because of hoops) name brand recognition that no other school has when dealing with athletic recruits. IF they ever chose to support football, they could be good, quick.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;1431133]

Let's hope not because the PL would be screwed for the short term.

It's sad really, because G'Town is the sleeping giant of our league. They have (because of hoops) name brand recognition that no other school has when dealing with athletic recruits. IF they ever chose to support football, they could be good, quick.

I don't get the brand recognition with Georgetown football. I know a lot of knowledgeable football fans and they are familiar with App State, Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette etc but they don't even know the Hoyas have a team. Georgetown is a lot like St. John's and the Johnnies eventually threw in the towl. The problems at Georgetown run much deeper than just the coaching.

[RichH2]

As DFW has opined on his blog, some commitment w/o tremendous cost is possible by GU but to even reach a fairly competitive squad requires an $$$ investment that GU wont or cant make. Alumni $$ probably only access and that does not seem likely. Whether we go schollie or not GU has some serious issues to resolve not the least of which is their coaching. A good # of their kids were recruited by PL and IL schools and some FBS. No depth and little size. D is really OK With any O at all they could have won a couple of games already this year. LU D good but they did not have much to challenge tham today

[DFW HOYA]

[QUOTE=colgate13;1431189]

I don't get the brand recognition with Georgetown football. I know a lot of knowledgeable football fans and they are familiar with App State, Delaware, Villanova, Lehigh, Lafayette etc but they don't even know the Hoyas have a team. Georgetown is a lot like St. John's and the Johnnies eventually threw in the towl. The problems at Georgetown run much deeper than just the coaching.

Are you trying to run Georgetown out of the PL? If so, watch that autobid go good-bye... xeyebrowx

More to follow tomorrow, but get your facts straight on Georgetown and St. John's. The Redmen started a program in 1978, had one coach for 22 years, and was never a consistent program before folding. Georgetown started a program in 1881 (or 1887, depending on who's counting), and until recently had a fairly good program for many the 104 of those years with a team.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;1431205]

Are you trying to run Georgetown out of the PL? If so, watch that autobid go good-bye... xeyebrowx

More to follow tomorrow, but get your facts straight on Georgetown and St. John's. The Redmen started a program in 1978, had one coach for 22 years, and was never a consistent program before folding. Georgetown started a program in 1881 (or 1887, depending on who's counting), and until recently had a fairly good program for many the 104 of those years with a team.

And 17 years ago Georgetown was losing to Ursinus, Dickenson, Franklin & Marshall, St. Peter's, John Hopkins and St. John's. Georgetown had a decent level of success in the MAAC against poor competition.

Based on my observation it is clear that Georgetown was much much better than the now defunct Red Storm program, or not....

St. John's record starting in 1992 until 2000
5-5, 8-3, 10-1, 4-6, 6-4, 8-3, 6-5, 7-4, 5-6

Georgetown
4-6, 4-5, 5-4, 6-3, 7-3, 8-3, 9-2, 9-2, 5-6

You can be proud of those D3 days or those ultra competitive MAAC days but that has nothing to do with where the Hoyas are now. You simply can't compete given the administration and alumni's apathetic view of football

[DFW HOYA]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1431219]
Georgetown just doesn't have what it takes to compete at this level, sorry DFW if you can't except that.

It absolutely has the ability to compete. Now how it chooses to do so is the question.

The question on talent or coaching is important because both will be under review if this gets to 0-8, 0-9, etc. This team is 1-20 in the PL under Kelly and that's a bitter record. Is this a team that loses its games on the sidelines, or is it a team Urban Meyer or Joe Paterno could be coaching and they'd still lose by 20?

The Lehigh announcers were selling this idea that Georgetown is a young team...which is false. Fifteen seniors played Saturday vs. just a handful of freshmen in a recruiting class which may be as weak as any GU has signed in the PL era; but, I would argue all the PL recruiting classes are falling a step behind what they have come to expect.

Without a careful examination of all the factors in 2009, Georgetown could be considerably worse next year, which is not good for GU and certainly not good for the PL.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;1431227]

It absolutely has the ability to compete. Now how it chooses to do so is the question.

The question on talent or coaching is important because both will be under review if this gets to 0-8, 0-9, etc. This team has is 1-20 in the PL under Kelly and that's a bitter record. The Lehigh announcers were selling this idea that Georgetown is a young team...which is false. Fifteen seniors played Saturday vs. just a handful of freshmen in a recruiting class which may be as weak as any GU has signed in the PL era; but, I would argue all the PL recruiting classes are falling a step behind what they have come to expect.

Without a careful examination of all the factors in 2009, Georgetown could be considerably worse next year, which is not good for GU and certainly not good for the PL.

So Georgetown has the money and support to get the facilities and spending up to level of their peers? It has just been their choice not to do so? I believe that is what you are saying.

Plus i don't believe Georgetown leaving the league would be a bad thing. The auto bid at this point is a joke imo as the league has no shot to compete at a national level right now. Maybe the Hoyas leaving and the league facing the loss of the auto bid would force their hand when it came to scholarships.

[DFW HOYA]

So Georgetown has the money and support to get the facilities and spending up to level of their peers? It has just been their choice not to do so? I believe that is what you are saying.


That's not what I'm saying, but this can be discussed tomorrow.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Another bad loss: seven straight, 15 of 16, 20 of 21 in the PL. This team could arguably be worse in 2010 if recruiting and/or retention go south.

So from a perspective outside of a Georgetown fan, is this an issue of talent or coaching?

I'm going to take to opposite tack here and say this is a talent issue. First of all, despite all of Lehigh's faults they have a pretty good defense. But sacking the quarterback eight times - that's not all from brilliant scheming. That's mostly due to a lack of quality linemen. You could have Tim Tebow back there and he'd still have problems. How can you stretch the field when it's always three steps back and run for your life?

[ngineer]

I'm going to take to opposite tack here and say this is a talent issue. First of all, despite all of Lehigh's faults they have a pretty good defense. But sacking the quarterback eight times - that's not all from brilliant scheming. That's mostly due to a lack of quality linemen. You could have Tim Tebow back there and he'd still have problems. How can you stretch the field when it's always three steps back and run for your life?


Bingo. The poor QB for the Hoyas was running for his life. Even when he got passes off he took a lick. While the coaching may be bad, there aren't enough studs in the trenches to make anything happen. Jim Brown needed someone to give him a crack of daylight. Joe Montana needed protection to pick apart a secondary.

[RichH2]

While PL still getting good players and some excellent ones, DFW is correct that the overall level has been dropping for the last3-4 years. Some of this may be the rising AI, but Increased fin.aid in the IL and more importantly the expanded schollies from the NEC Albany et al have negatively impacted overall recruiting. The biggest impact really seems to be in fewer"difference makers" coming into the PL. Bunches of nice players pretty much the same with all the schools as to athletic ability size etc. The CAA and FBS gets most of the best, we get a few now and then, but fewer and fewer as they are going to other schollie programs . Parity in a conference is a good thing ,I guess BUT not at the expense of competitveness OOC. A thread for another day. GU's situation surely worse than I thought.

Whateverthe coaching issues, GU does not have Olinemen to compete in PL. A few good but most are just to small .
Good skill players with bad line leads nowhere no matter who is coaching

[Lehigh Football Nation]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;1431227]
The Lehigh announcers were selling this idea that Georgetown is a young team...which is false. Fifteen seniors played Saturday vs. just a handful of freshmen in a recruiting class which may be as weak as any GU has signed in the PL era; but, I would argue all the PL recruiting classes are falling a step behind what they have come to expect.

Not only do I agree, you can make an excellent case that the PL has been suffering through this for at least a few years and probably much more - and it's painfully clear after this week something is amiss after you watch this week.

* Bucknell can't beat Penn starting a fourth-string QB.
* Brown beats Holy Cross for the first time since 1995.
* Princeton takes Colgate to double-overtime.
* Lafayette trails most of the game against Columbia, and barely escapes with the win.

This 2-2 against the Ivy League, it can be argued, could have been the worst in recent memory - because everyone knows how easily it could have been 0-4. And it's not even the best Ivy League teams that are taking our elite to the wire.

You can add to this:
* Liberty beating Lafayette.
* Harvard dominating Lehigh, when in recent memory their games were decided by seven points or less, and Lehigh losing to CCSU and Princeton. Harvard also started their third-string RB against us, who promptly ran for 100 yards against us.
* Fordham getting blown out by URI and Columbia, and having to come from behind to beat a program featuring almost all freshmen playing their first game in five decades.
* Georgetown losing to Howard - and, once again, Yale.

Not all that long ago, the PL was upsetting decent CAA teams on a fairly regular basis, with an eye towards making a run in the playoffs. Now the great majority of our OOC wins are coming against winless teams, and it's almost unthinkable to beat a CAA team these days.

[CFBfan]

I'm going to take to opposite tack here and say this is a talent issue. First of all, despite all of Lehigh's faults they have a pretty good defense. But sacking the quarterback eight times - that's not all from brilliant scheming. That's mostly due to a lack of quality linemen. You could have Tim Tebow back there and he'd still have problems. How can you stretch the field when it's always three steps back and run for your life?

although you are correct about the line, even a mediocre coach would understand that by running the same 3 or 4 pass plays ALL game long would allow even the worst defense in the country to look pretty good! I have seen teams with "small" lines and "OK" talent play very good football and win their share of games becasue they were coached by men that had a clue!! NEVER underestimate the impotance of coaching in football. A good not even great, just a good coach understands that he must put his players in the best possible scenario to win and knows how to do it!

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=CFBfan;1430844]

Sorry--the talent at G-town is lacking as well. This is partially the coaches fault as well for poor recruiting, but it also comes down to $ dolled out to players. The Hoya coaches are bad, but the talent isnt much better. No way the Hoyas have as much talent as the other teams in the PL.

Sounds like your son is a talented player and prized recruit--problem is not many like him also choose the Hoya's.

I agree with you that there's not as much talent but there is enough talent to win football games if they were well coached. As for my son, you won't be seeing him on Sunday's!! he just a nice 1AA player who didn't realize the program was this bad.

[Pard94]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1431238]

Not only do I agree, you can make an excellent case that the PL has been suffering through this for at least a few years and probably much more - and it's painfully clear after this week something is amiss after you watch this week.

* Bucknell can't beat Penn starting a fourth-string QB.
* Brown beats Holy Cross for the first time since 1995.
* Princeton takes Colgate to double-overtime.
* Lafayette trails most of the game against Columbia, and barely escapes with the win.

This 2-2 against the Ivy League, it can be argued, could have been the worst in recent memory - because everyone knows how easily it could have been 0-4. And it's not even the best Ivy League teams that are taking our elite to the wire.


Really? This is your evidence? Other than HC which certainly was a big surprise (a surprise that will mean nothing when it is all said and done but a surprise nonethelesss) this is your case against the PL? Essentially you have teams losing who were supposed to lose and teams winning who were supposed to win.

This 2-2 is about what happens every year. The PL matches up well against the Ivy. It was designed that way. You don't get to say the close ones don't count just because they don't support your argument.

I suppose this is what you get when you get a Lehigh fan and a Georgetown fan (two programs currently looking at thier teams through crap colored glasses) together to give us the state of thee PL union.

[RichH2]

94

Goodgame by Pards, question tho Are you saying that because it was set up that way, which it was I agree, that it is OK to go 2-2 vs mid Ivies? My opinion, which I admit I've beaten to death, is that we should no longer be IvyLite. Aside from GU deciding to compete in the PL, the real issue is how do we as a conference want to compete. Should we just book in .500 vs Ivies and under .500 vs schollie schools as OK because "it was set up that way"?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1431265]

Really? This is your evidence? Other than HC which certainly was a big surprise (a surprise that will mean nothing when it is all said and done but a surprise nonethelesss) this is your case against the PL? Essentially you have teams losing who were supposed to lose and teams winning who were supposed to win.

This 2-2 is about what happens every year. The PL matches up well against the Ivy. It was designed that way. You don't get to say the close ones don't count just because they don't support your argument.

I suppose this is what you get when you get a Lehigh fan and a Georgetown fan (two programs currently looking at thier teams through crap colored glasses) together to give us the state of thee PL union.

You are seriously telling me that Lafayette was EXPECTED to TRAIL BASICALLY THE ENTIRE GAME against COLUMBIA. I'll be looking forward to seeing the quote of your post saying as much. I'm pretty sure it's next to your post that Colgate would require double-OT to beat Princeton.

Do you believe that Columbia and Princeton are better than .500 teams in the Ivy? Princeton has been excoriated here on AGS as being a bad team. Columbia hasn't won an Ivy League title since Gosh knows when.

Granted, Brown isn't a bad team - but then again, they lost to Stony Brook.

Bucknell wasn't expected to win against Penn, though nearly any other team in FCS would have been.

If these are indeed your expectaions, doesn't that mean something is horribly wrong? Bucknell is EXPECTED to lose against a team with no offense? That Lafyayette is EXPECTED to struggle against Columbia? Colgate against Princeton?

[carney2]

Do you believe that Columbia and Princeton are better than .500 teams in the Ivy?

Columbia, yes. Princeton, no. One more time, this is not your father's Columbia. At this point they appear to be a match for Princeton (who they've already beaten) and, alphabetically, Cornell, Dartmouth and Yale. Stealing one from either Brown or Penn is not out of the question.

[carney2]

94

Goodgame by Pards, question tho Are you saying that because it was set up that way, which it was I agree, that it is OK to go 2-2 vs mid Ivies? My opinion, which I admit I've beaten to death, is that we should no longer be IvyLite. Aside from GU deciding to compete in the PL, the real issue is how do we as a conference want to compete. Should we just book in .500 vs Ivies and under .500 vs schollie schools as OK because "it was set up that way"?

Good points all, but the Patriot League IS Ivy Lite whether you want it to be or not. .500 vs. Ivys is generally a pretty good year for this bunch. Even with scholarships, getting over .500 vs. the CAA and other real football conferences will be quite an accomplishment.

[bulldog10jw]

[QUOTE=Pard94;1431343] Columbia hasn't won an Ivy League title since Gosh knows when.



1961

[RichH2]

True carney , we were created as in house opponents for the IL. Started to move out of that status in late 90s and earlier this decade to establish PL as its own entity. Slid back a bit last couple of years. We can be so much more. Economy a killer but as that sorts out we either move forward or we slide back to those "almost Ivy schools"?

Which doyou want?

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=Go Lehigh TU owl;1431227]

It absolutely has the ability to compete. Now how it chooses to do so is the question.

The question on talent or coaching is important because both will be under review if this gets to 0-8, 0-9, etc. This team is 1-20 in the PL under Kelly and that's a bitter record. Is this a team that loses its games on the sidelines, or is it a team Urban Meyer or Joe Paterno could be coaching and they'd still lose by 20?

The Lehigh announcers were selling this idea that Georgetown is a young team...which is false. Fifteen seniors played Saturday vs. just a handful of freshmen in a recruiting class which may be as weak as any GU has signed in the PL era; but, I would argue all the PL recruiting classes are falling a step behind what they have come to expect.

Without a careful examination of all the factors in 2009, Georgetown could be considerably worse next year, which is not good for GU and certainly not good for the PL.

Here are 2 posts from the Gtown board that speak to your question.....




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"Our outside linebackers coach [Matt Sanders] said it best -- he said that if we out-intensify the offense, they're going to be intimidated,'' said cornerback Jarard Cribbs. ''At practice we started going to the guy who made the tackle and let him know that we had his back. We swarmed to the ball. If you're going to congratulate the guy who made the tackle, you're going to be running over there to do it.''
Football is not a gentleman sport. in fact, besides boxing it is probably the most barbaric sport. With this being said, it takes a certain mentality to excel. However, that mentality is not instilled in our players by the coaching staff. This is a FACT! Ask any player you know and you will find out that under this coaching staff, they are chastised and punished for showing football emotion during practice and during the games. If a player makes a good block they are only supposed to clap very gentlemanly like. Its hard to win a gunfight with a knife... just as hard as it is to WIN a football game as a gentleman. This staff has turned good football players into SOFT football players according to tho se who watch.

Its a shame how Georgetown administration could let this happen!

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That is exactly true. The kids get in trouble if they hit too hard in practice and it is not encouraged. It is the oddest thing with this coaching staff the way they handle everything, from the team meetings, to the after game speeches, the player rotations, and player improvement. It is not the type of coaching and football many of the kids have experienced in their HS careers and the kids know it and it impacts how they view the coaches. There is no discipline and no fire during practice and you see this in the games. I read week to week on this board how the defense keeps us in games. When's the last time the defense had a shutout? When's the last time you saw the defense play berserck and just flat out attack a team's offense? Not on one play, but play after play. That attitude starts with the coaches. I'm not saying the defense is bad, but it is more than a change in the offense that is needed to make this program into a winning program. The whole thing needs an overhaul.

It's the coaching (imho)

[Franks Tanks]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1431238]

Here are 2 posts from the Gtown board that speak to your question.....




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"Our outside linebackers coach [Matt Sanders] said it best -- he said that if we out-intensify the offense, they're going to be intimidated,'' said cornerback Jarard Cribbs. ''At practice we started going to the guy who made the tackle and let him know that we had his back. We swarmed to the ball. If you're going to congratulate the guy who made the tackle, you're going to be running over there to do it.''
Football is not a gentleman sport. in fact, besides boxing it is probably the most barbaric sport. With this being said, it takes a certain mentality to excel. However, that mentality is not instilled in our players by the coaching staff. This is a FACT! Ask any player you know and you will find out that under this coaching staff, they are chastised and punished for showing football emotion during practice and during the games. If a player makes a good block they are only supposed to clap very gentlemanly like. Its hard to win a gunfight with a knife... just as hard as it is to WIN a football game as a gentleman. This staff has turned good football players into SOFT football players according to tho se who watch.

Its a shame how Georgetown administration could let this happen!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is exactly true. The kids get in trouble if they hit too hard in practice and it is not encouraged. It is the oddest thing with this coaching staff the way they handle everything, from the team meetings, to the after game speeches, the player rotations, and player improvement. It is not the type of coaching and football many of the kids have experienced in their HS careers and the kids know it and it impacts how they view the coaches. There is no discipline and no fire during practice and you see this in the games. I read week to week on this board how the defense keeps us in games. When's the last time the defense had a shutout? When's the last time you saw the defense play berserck and just flat out attack a team's offense? Not on one play, but play after play. That attitude starts with the coaches. I'm not saying the defense is bad, but it is more than a change in the offense that is needed to make this program into a winning program. The whole thing needs an overhaul.

It's the coaching (imho)


No doubt the G-twon coaching staff is poor and I cant see them lasting after this season.


Benson was once considered a rising star like Dave Clawson in the late 90's early 2000's. Dave is the HC at Bowling Green and Bob is the DC at a D-II school. It will be difficult for the Hoya's to attract a quality young coach as it terrible HC record can set a coach back a whole lot.

In other news why is the quote function all jacked up on this thread?? Its hard to follow

[Pard4Life]

Columbia is at least a third place team. Their QB attacks was better than Yale's Nebraska QB.

What's the big deal here? HC beats Harvard, Brown nearly takes down Harvard, Brown takes down HC. The PL has wins over the top Ivy preseason picks. If the Pards somehow beat Harvard, who ends up being IL champs and HC and Pards finish 1-2 or 2-1, what will that say? And if Colgate played the real Ivy football powers our mark would look more impressive.

Having gotten a feel for the Ivy, we will see:

1) Harvard
2) Brown
3) Columbia
4) Penn (was their QB injured? If not then bump them to two)
5) Princeton
6) Yale
7) Cornell
8) Dartmouth

Now if Lehigh beats Yale, I'm sure we will hear a different tune coming from their section regarding Ivy-PL this year.

[RichH2]

Thanks Tanks, I thougt it was just me having another senior moment. I think we've beaten poor GU to death. They are bad and coaching has not helped . The unanswerable question is whether GU will do anything about it.

Good luck vs Harvard. Expect very close game.

[RichH2]

Miss the point Pardforlife, I hope we do beat Yale . We at least have a shot at it. Cant speak for others ,but my issue is not how bad Lehigh is ,rather whether the PL as a league will be able to compete successfully nationally. HC, Gate and Pards doing well and should be all in the mix to win PL. BUT none will be able to play with 1st round opponent in Playoffs. We will get slaughtered. Our PL pond is shrinking slowly but surely. That is my point. I do expect that we will never be able to win more than we lose consistently with CAA. Hell no one can . Tough games and occasional wins would be great. I dread this conference getting as parochial and insular as the Ivies.

[Franks Tanks]

Columbia is at least a third place team. Their QB attacks was better than Yale's Nebraska QB.

What's the big deal here? HC beats Harvard, Brown nearly takes down Harvard, Brown takes down HC. The PL has wins over the top Ivy preseason picks. If the Pards somehow beat Harvard, who ends up being IL champs and HC and Pards finish 1-2 or 2-1, what will that say? And if Colgate played the real Ivy football powers our mark would look more impressive.

Having gotten a feel for the Ivy, we will see:

1) Harvard
2) Brown
3) Columbia
4) Penn (was their QB injured? If not then bump them to two)
5) Princeton
6) Yale
7) Cornell
8) Dartmouth

Now if Lehigh beats Yale, I'm sure we will hear a different tune coming from their section regarding Ivy-PL this year.

I think that is a pretty good assesmnt of how the IL stands right now, and how it can expect to shake out. I would probably move Princeton down a bit and Cornell up. Cornell has already beat Yale, so it will be hard for them to finish behind the El's at this point I believe.

[Franks Tanks]

Miss the point Pardforlife, I hope we do beat Yale . We at least have a shot at it. Cant speak for others ,but my issue is not how bad Lehigh is ,rather whether the PL as a league will be able to compete successfully nationally. HC, Gate and Pards doing well and should be all in the mix to win PL. BUT none will be able to play with 1st round opponent in Playoffs. We will get slaughtered. Our PL pond is shrinking slowly but surely. That is my point. I do expect that we will never be able to win more than we lose consistently with CAA. Hell no one can . Tough games and occasional wins would be great. I dread this conference getting as parochial and insular as the Ivies.

I believe your fears are warranted, but we have performed poor in the playoffs because we get matched up with the best right away. We probably deserve this fate, but not too many teams will fare well againt the 1st or 2nd best CAA team every year.

When the playoffs expand and PL teams begin playing MEAC, OVC, and NEC teams in the 1st round (with top seeds getting a bye), we will get some playoff w's again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Now if Lehigh beats Yale, I'm sure we will hear a different tune coming from their section regarding Ivy-PL this year.

If Lehigh beats Yale, then there will be an audible sigh of relief from Bethlehem, not chest-thumping. Yale's wins over Dartmouth and Georgetown haven't been the stuff of legend.

However, if Lafayette beats Harvard and Harvard goes on to win the IL, it will mean that Lafayette will match HC's achievement the best OOC win of the year.

It would also give the Patriot League exactly three wins over Top 50 GPI teams - two of them over Harvard.

[Doc QB]

[QUOTE][I believe your fears are warranted, but we have performed poor in the playoffs because we get matched up with the best right away. We probably deserve this fate, but not too many teams will fare well againt the 1st or 2nd best CAA team every year./QUOTE]

The Richmond-JMU game was telecast live in Baltimore, not sure what channel. And yes, when we get matched up in playoffs against teams like that, we will fare poorly at this point, and it was totally evident watching that game...we don't get athletes like they do. Period. JMU looked so athletic, no one on Lehigh's roster looks like those guys (Poo colored uni's don't help much either). And JMU lost. They have some beasts, as did Richmond, obvioulsy, who I think has a remendous coaching staff, schemes, athletes. Someone else mentioned earlier in thread that we don't get many real difference makers in the league, don't steal many of those kind of guys, and I totally agree. They are a huge cut above us.

I'm not saying PL teams should always match up with a #1 Richmond team or a JMU, but when watching those guys play, we are not even close. For whatever reason (and those reasons may be legion), we have had a league wide drop in talent. Those reasons stated on numerous posts previously, but watch one of those CAA telecasts, watch a PL contest, they look dramatically different, and it wasn't always that way. Those leagues are drifitng way apart, and I'd always want to compare our best to their's, NOT the Ivies, wouldn't you?

[RichH2]

Tanks

Good point forgot about expansion. That will certainly help . Tough being matched with CAA every year. Shame not this year.

Doc,
correct, not many such kids fall thru the cracks and as a league we are getting fewer. So far I've seen Nova, Del and JMU. Speed speed speed etc. PL has lots of good players and a few very good , CAA has lots of fast, athletic good and very good players.

[Franks Tanks]

[QUOTE][I believe your fears are warranted, but we have performed poor in the playoffs because we get matched up with the best right away. We probably deserve this fate, but not too many teams will fare well againt the 1st or 2nd best CAA team every year./QUOTE]

The Richmond-JMU game was telecast live in Baltimore, not sure what channel. And yes, when we get matched up in playoffs against teams like that, we will fare poorly at this point, and it was totally evident watching that game...we don't get athletes like they do. Period. JMU looked so athletic, no one on Lehigh's roster looks like those guys (Poo colored uni's don't help much either). And JMU lost. They have some beasts, as did Richmond, obvioulsy, who I think has a remendous coaching staff, schemes, athletes. Someone else mentioned earlier in thread that we don't get many real difference makers in the league, don't steal many of those kind of guys, and I totally agree. They are a huge cut above us.

I'm not saying PL teams should always match up with a #1 Richmond team or a JMU, but when watching those guys play, we are not even close. For whatever reason (and those reasons may be legion), we have had a league wide drop in talent. Those reasons stated on numerous posts previously, but watch one of those CAA telecasts, watch a PL contest, they look dramatically different, and it wasn't always that way. Those leagues are drifitng way apart, and I'd always want to compare our best to their's, NOT the Ivies, wouldn't you?


The CAA has become very good. Richmond crushed a pretty decent Duke team, and JMU should have beat Maryland. Lafayette beat Richmond in 04 and 05-- this years Lafayette team is about as good as the 04 and 05 teams (as it looks now), but the Richmond team and the CAA overall is much better.

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1431238]

Not only do I agree, you can make an excellent case that the PL has been suffering through this for at least a few years and probably much more - and it's painfully clear after this week something is amiss after you watch this week.

* Bucknell can't beat Penn starting a fourth-string QB.
* Brown beats Holy Cross for the first time since 1995.
* Princeton takes Colgate to double-overtime.
* Lafayette trails most of the game against Columbia, and barely escapes with the win.

This 2-2 against the Ivy League, it can be argued, could have been the worst in recent memory - because everyone knows how easily it could have been 0-4. And it's not even the best Ivy League teams that are taking our elite to the wire.

You can add to this:
* Liberty beating Lafayette.
* Harvard dominating Lehigh, when in recent memory their games were decided by seven points or less, and Lehigh losing to CCSU and Princeton. Harvard also started their third-string RB against us, who promptly ran for 100 yards against us.
* Fordham getting blown out by URI and Columbia, and having to come from behind to beat a program featuring almost all freshmen playing their first game in five decades.
* Georgetown losing to Howard - and, once again, Yale.

Not all that long ago, the PL was upsetting decent CAA teams on a fairly regular basis, with an eye towards making a run in the playoffs. Now the great majority of our OOC wins are coming against winless teams, and it's almost unthinkable to beat a CAA team these days.

I get the feeling that when Lehigh is a top PL team the sky is falling, the PL brand is crap, and we suddenly can't beat anybody.

- Brown is not a bad team; gave Harvard a game and HC had a second half meltdown.. Gotta win sometime!
- Penn uses more than a QB to win games; their D is still pretty good and BU offense relies on triple option
- all of a sudden Pards losing to Liberty in a close game is a bad omen... Not that it was one year ago we pummeled them in their stadium
- Lots of teams will dominate Lehigh this year because your coach, defense, and execution is atrocious
- Fordham is not very good on defense and are only a mid-road PL team
- you're counting on Gtown to win a game?
- Princeton was a different team than when they played at Lehigh, and Lehigh beat themselves more than anything

Scholarships are a long term problem but it does not show itself this year. When our top teams looks pathetic against mid-road and lower Ivy teams, we will have issues.

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1431238]

Not only do I agree, you can make an excellent case that the PL has been suffering through this for at least a few years and probably much more - and it's painfully clear after this week something is amiss after you watch this week.

* Bucknell can't beat Penn starting a fourth-string QB.
* Brown beats Holy Cross for the first time since 1995.
* Princeton takes Colgate to double-overtime.
* Lafayette trails most of the game against Columbia, and barely escapes with the win.

This 2-2 against the Ivy League, it can be argued, could have been the worst in recent memory - because everyone knows how easily it could have been 0-4. And it's not even the best Ivy League teams that are taking our elite to the wire.

You can add to this:
* Liberty beating Lafayette.
* Harvard dominating Lehigh, when in recent memory their games were decided by seven points or less, and Lehigh losing to CCSU and Princeton. Harvard also started their third-string RB against us, who promptly ran for 100 yards against us.
* Fordham getting blown out by URI and Columbia, and having to come from behind to beat a program featuring almost all freshmen playing their first game in five decades.
* Georgetown losing to Howard - and, once again, Yale.

Not all that long ago, the PL was upsetting decent CAA teams on a fairly regular basis, with an eye towards making a run in the playoffs. Now the great majority of our OOC wins are coming against winless teams, and it's almost unthinkable to beat a CAA team these days.

I get the feeling that when Lehigh is not a top PL team the sky is falling, the PL brand is crap, and we suddenly can't beat anybody.

- Brown is not a bad team; gave Harvard a game and HC had a second half meltdown.. Gotta win sometime!
- Columbia is actually good and we did not believe it until they started scoring
- Penn uses more than a QB to win games; their D is still pretty good and BU offense relies on triple option
- all of a sudden Pards losing to Liberty in a close game is a bad omen... Not that it was one year ago we pummeled them in their stadium
- Lots of teams will dominate Lehigh this year because your coach, defense, and execution is atrocious
- Fordham is not very good on defense and are only a mid-road PL team
- you're counting on Gtown to win a game?
- Princeton was a different team than when they played at Lehigh, and Lehigh beat themselves more than anything

Scholarships are a long term problem but it does not show itself this year. When our top teams look pathetic against mid-road and lower Ivy teams, we will have issues.

[Pard4Life]

To the larger point of the playoffs, as quoted above, we just need to avoid the top teams in round one to have a shot. And even then, we have played strongly, save for last year's embarassment. Scholarships will help us to have more competitive teams, but will the preception of the league change? We'd have to drop Ivies and schedule more CAA/SoCon teams during the regular season because the playoffs are too much of a toss-up.

[RichH2]

We all have enuf roomto schedule 2-3 Ivies and still get some good OOC games. For us would like to see 2 Ivies, NEC or Big South ,and 2 fromCAA or Socon .

[Pard4Life]

Hint hint Fordham... no CW Post or the like! Delaware is just as bad scheduling West Chester.

[Pards Rule]

To the larger point of the playoffs, as quoted above, we just need to avoid the top teams in round one to have a shot. And even then, we have played strongly, save for last year's embarassment. Scholarships will help us to have more competitive teams, but will the preception of the league change? We'd have to drop Ivies and schedule more CAA/SoCon teams during the regular season because the playoffs are too much of a toss-up.

But we didnt play last year in playoffs??

[DFW HOYA]

Scholarships will help us to have more competitive teams, but will the preception of the league change?

No.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I get the feeling that when Lehigh is not a top PL team the sky is falling, the PL brand is crap, and we suddenly can't beat anybody.

- Brown is not a bad team...

According to the GPI, Brown is 54th out of 125 FCS teams.


Columbia is actually good...

58th.


Penn uses more than a QB to win games...

52nd.


- all of a sudden Pards losing to Liberty in a close game is a bad omen... Not that it was one year ago we pummeled them in their stadium

The 'Pards win over Liberty last year, on the road, was by far the signature win for the Patriot League last year, over a ranked opponent by a double-digit score. However, this year Liberty is ranked No. 32, and they lost at home.


Princeton was a different team than when they played at Lehigh...

99th.


Scholarships are a long term problem but it does not show itself this year. When our top teams look pathetic against mid-road and lower Ivy teams, we will have issues.

So let me get this straight. When our teams look pathetic against mid-road and lower Ivy teams, we have issues, but it doesn't show itself this year? Brother, look at the rankings... our TOP teams have not looked great against mid-road Ivy and FCS teams this year.

[Pard4Life]

Ugh here we go with the numbers again... maybe you should watch some games instead of playing with your calculaor. They are good football teams, and I'm going by what I see at the game and TV.

[carney2]

When our top teams look pathetic against mid-road and lower Ivy teams, we will have issues.

That is a very, very good point.

I beg to differ about the PL champ being blown out in the 1st round as a "given." I think that Dominic Randolph is enough of a difference maker to hang in there for awhile, and I think that, if they beat Harvard this week, Lafayette just may be good enough not to be embarrassed. As for Colgate...well, I'm not so sure on that one. We saw what they did - or didn't - last year.

[Pard4Life]

That is a very, very good point.

I beg to differ about the PL champ being blown out in the 1st round as a "given." I think that Dominic Randolph is enough of a difference maker to hang in there for awhile, and I think that, if they beat Harvard this week, Lafayette just may be good enough not to be embarrassed. As for Colgate...well, I'm not so sure on that one. We saw what they did - or didn't - last year.

A good example is Skelton in 2007 against UMass. He kept the Rams close until the final moments, so what you're saying is likely true. I hate to say it, but you can pencil in these dates:

November 28
Holy Cross at UNH, noon OR
Colgate at Villanova, 3pm, CN8 OR
Lafayette at Villanova, 3pm, CN8

If HC had reliable D I can see them pulling an upset, but LC and CU would be longer shots.

[RichH2]

As I said before, Dominic has the ability to scare a few teams in playoffs, would not be surprised if they could win in1stround.

HOWEVER, he is 1 player. That is enuf to convince you that the entire PL is competitive and not sliding? It really has nothing to do with Lehigh being bad or good. Randolph will be gone next year as will Skelton. Who will we rely on then ? I think anyone who believes PL has been keeping pace as a conference ( regardless of how LU does) is living in a fool's paradise.

[Doc QB]

Originally Posted by Pard4Life
Scholarships will help us to have more competitive teams, but will the preception of the league change?

Move toward scholarships, schedule a mix of stronger IVY types AND CAA teams, and put more in the "W" column...how could the perception not change? I think it will take more than just scholarships, but a committment to play more CAA teams, and any team that has a national draw in the FCS world, teams not too far distant from the PL campuses, that compete in playoffs each year, it is a better recipe than what we have now with declining attendance (see Goodman, 5000K last week?), worsening OOC records, perceived lower quality athletes, and less than stellar playoff performances.

There is no reason to believe the PL would fail to develop more street cred if they played the best...adding scholarships and being in a position to beat the best (not just "being competitive" ), and scheduling more of them instead of three Ivys and an NEC (no offense) could do wonders perception wise. And it will take some time.

[DFW HOYA]

I hate to say it, but you can pencil in these dates:

November 28
Holy Cross at UNH, noon OR
Colgate at Villanova, 3pm, CN8 OR
Lafayette at Villanova, 3pm, CN8


More likely, it could be:
PL autobid at Richmond, 12:00 pm, SE2

Given the strength of the PL this year, this may be a one-bid year regardless of the runner-up's record.


Move toward scholarships, schedule a mix of stronger IVY types AND CAA teams, and put more in the "W" column...how could the perception not change?

Because PL scholarships are fundamentally flawed if all it provides is merit money to the same caliber of player it has now. Those players will continue to go elsewhere. It might sway the recruit choosing between Lafayette and Penn, but the Villanova offer beats both of them. Scrapping the "Ivy Lite Index" would be another step in the right direction but the PL won't do this.


I think it will take more than just scholarships, but a committment to play more CAA teams, and any team that has a national draw in the FCS world, teams not too far distant from the PL campuses, that compete in playoffs each year, it is a better recipe than what we have now with declining attendance (see Goodman, 5000K last week?), worsening OOC records, perceived lower quality athletes, and less than stellar playoff performances. There is no reason to believe the PL would fail to develop more street cred if they played the best...

And that's the flaw--the PL will still not play "the best" with merit aid, regardless if it's one, two, or four schools that even adopt such a policy. It will still get its share of Stony Brooks and Bryants and those Ivies that haven't canceled the long-term games as some are doing. Anyone penciling in Northern Iowa, Montana, App State on future PL schedules? Of course not.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Ugh here we go with the numbers again... maybe you should watch some games instead of playing with your calculaor. They are good football teams, and I'm going by what I see at the game and TV.

If you really think I'm getting out my calculator in an effort to discredit your school and pump up mine, how do you explain that no Patriot League team has beaten a team in the GPI Top 50 by more than 10 points? That's not just one school - that includes our supposed Top 25 teams. This is a body of work, not just one school.

[RichH2]

DFW, the flaw in your argument is the assumption that merit aid will either only be targeted at same caliber of player we currently get or that we will only successfully get those players. Across the board everyone of us have lost kids to CAA schools and FBS solely based on $$$. Yes we have to go after those kids and we will probably lose more than we win but we will get more of them than we do now.

[Franks Tanks]

This has really all become quite tiresome.

Yes the PL hasnt beat too many top 50 teams, but we havent played a whole bunch either. Lafayette, Holy Cross and Colgate are in the midst of solid seasons, while the rest of the PL has been inconsistent (Fordham and maybe Lehigh) or just plain not very good. How good are Lafayette, Holy Cross and Colgate??? We dont know but we will find out as one of these will probbably finish with one or two losses and will get a crack at the playoffs.

Lets all STFU until then about how we compare vs FCS teams and conferences we havent played.

[RichH2]

Fordham did open a box that cant seem to stay shut. Ah well, it wont go away until 2010. let us finish up our OOC with a sweep. Then we can kick the cr*p out of one another for the last month.Unfortunately, LU may be on the receiving end of most of that.

[Pard4Life]

It sounds like though that the decline of the PL is measured against our performance against the Ivy, when we start panicing over games this past weekend. I'm not sure how different 2009 is vs 2002 for example. Truth is our league's precieved nadir five years ago is a mirage; we have never kept pace with any of the top conferences, and likely never will without schollies and snagging Villanova/William Mary/Richmond. The NEC has schollies but has the league's preception changed much throughout FCS? No... I don't see any ranked NEC teams. The only team that ever had a real chance to beat a power CAA team in a given year was Lehigh... which to me sounds like the prestige of the PL was viewed through Lehigh's season. Colgate and Fordham had flashes of brilliance, but it was not sustained. Does anyone have evidence that our league is any different from 5-10 years ago than now, that doesn't involve Lehigh? It's like Gonzaga in the WCC... great team but not a strong league with maybe one or two other good, not great teams. My point is, I don't think the PL was ever as top-notch as we all thought.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It sounds like though that the decline of the PL is measured against our performance against the Ivy, when we start panicing over games this past weekend. I'm not sure how different 2009 is vs 2002 for example. Truth is our league's precieved nadir five years ago is a mirage; we have never kept pace with any of the top conferences, and likely never will without schollies and snagging Villanova/William Mary/Richmond. The NEC has schollies but has the league's preception changed much throughout FCS? No... I don't see any ranked NEC teams. The only team that ever had a real chance to beat a power CAA team in a given year was Lehigh... which to me sounds like the prestige of the PL was viewed through Lehigh's season. Colgate and Fordham had flashes of brilliance, but it was not sustained. Does anyone have evidence that our league is any different from 5-10 years ago than now, that doesn't involve Lehigh? It's like Gonzaga in the WCC... great team but not a strong league with maybe one or two other good, not great teams. My point is, I don't think the PL was ever as top-notch as we all thought.

Interesting observation. More than anything I think what gave Lehigh the perception as the Gonzaga of FCS was their win over Richmond in 1998 and the scare they put into UMass. From 98 to 02 Lehigh built that reputation, but those days are long gone.

I'd say, though, if folks think the PL is all about Lehigh they'd be 100% wrong. And just a few years ago, the PL champion proved themselves to certainly belong in the same sentence as the CAA. Colgate is more than a flash - they did beat UMass in the mix there in the regular season after '03, and beat Maine in the late '90s. More recently, your 'Pards did beat Richmond and made Delaware and App State respect you. And Fordham beat Northeastern and brought Villanova and UMass to the limit, too.

Right now - and admittedly, things can change - it feels like last year and this year the gap between the PL and the rest of FCS feels bigger than it has in a while. Part of it has to be the beat-down that Colgate encountered in the playoffs last year, as well as the NEC being stronger, the CAA being incredibly powerful, etc. Even three years ago that wasn't the case.

It would be nice to see that PL sweep this weekend.

[colorless raider]

DFW, the flaw in your argument is the assumption that merit aid will either only be targeted at same caliber of player we currently get or that we will only successfully get those players. Across the board everyone of us have lost kids to CAA schools and FBS solely based on $$$. Yes we have to go after those kids and we will probably lose more than we win but we will get more of them than we do now.

I am with RichH2 on this. DFW should channel his football acumen to making G'town a contender in whatever football category/league they end up in when they depart the PL.

[DFW HOYA]

I am with RichH2 on this. DFW should channel his football acumen to making G'town a contender in whatever football category/league they end up in when they depart the PL.

Departing? I must have missed the memo.

[Fordham]

...Because PL scholarships are fundamentally flawed if all it provides is merit money to the same caliber of player it has now. Those players will continue to go elsewhere. ...
you're right about the bolded part if you make that huge assumption. It would also be true to say that if we go out and target worse players than we're recruiting now that going scholarship will likely have a negative effect on our quality of play. Not sure why we'd make such silly assumptions though.




And that's the flaw--the PL will still not play "the best" with merit aid, regardless if it's one, two, or four schools that even adopt such a policy. It will still get its share of Stony Brooks and Bryants and those Ivies that haven't canceled the long-term games as some are doing. Anyone penciling in Northern Iowa, Montana, App State on future PL schedules? Of course not. We've actually already penciled in UCONN, Villanova, Army & Navy and it's all due to us going scholarship. While admittedly only one of those is an FCS powerhouse, I think most on here would welcome it for their programs. By the way, nothing wrong with scheduling the Stony Brooks and Bryants imo either - as long as they're not the heaviest hitters on the skid.