Harvard at Lehigh Game Thread

[Ivytalk]

Ivytalk is making his biennial (for now) trip to Bethlehem to watch the Harvard Crimson take on the Lehigh Mountain Hawks/Engineers. ngineer will graciously host this unseemly spectacle. xthumbsupx My contribution to the pre-game tailgate will be a selection of fine beers. Look for the tailgate site with the largest number of "sandbags.";) I'll be wearing Harvard shirt and an AGS hat. Or is it an AGS shirt and a Harvard hat? I can't remember.

Will any other Lehigh AGSers be on hand for this classic event? The game will be a mere distraction, with Harvard hoping to avoid its second road loss of the year by getting a more consistent offensive performance, a stronger kicking game, and tighter pass D. The last 90 seconds of the Brown game were almost too much for this ol' Cantab's ticker. As if being a Phillies fan weren't bad enough!

Two straight Saturdays of live FCS football! Life is good.:D

[RichH2]

ngineer and Iwill certainly be there. Should be a fun tailgate and I hope an interesting game. LU with a new qb should score more points and hopefully give up less than it has so far this year.xthumbsupx I always wear my white LU hat and sometimes a shirt. ngineer has a class tailgate area. Good place to meet

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm putting in for my press pass this weekend, so chalk me up as an attendee of this one. xthumbsupx

[bulldog10jw]

Take pictures of the tailgate.

[carney2]

Will any other Lehigh AGSers be on hand for this classic event?

They'll be easy to spot. All on suicide watch.

[RichH2]

xbeerchugx Perhaps less so after the tailgate, which may be the highlight of the day

[van]

I'll be there, with the spouse to keep me sane.

[Franks Tanks]

Keith Groller of the Morning Call is reporting that Lum will start this weekend

http://blogs.mcall.com/groller/2009/09/sophomore-lum-to-start-at-quarterback-for-lehigh.html

Where is LFN with the scoop?

[RichH2]

Franks

It was posted on LU board a couple of hours ago. 1st info on it was in game notes.

[Ivytalk]

They'll be easy to spot. All on suicide watch.

Spoilsport!:p

[RichH2]

Look I promise not to freak out until after the tailgate

[Franks Tanks]

Franks

It was posted on LU board a couple of hours ago. 1st info on it was in game notes.

Whoops

[Ivytalk]

Look I promise not to freak out until after the tailgate

Freak out? What if you win??xeekxxeekx

[RichH2]

Then the drinks are on me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Keith Groller of the Morning Call is reporting that Lum will start this weekend

http://blogs.mcall.com/groller/2009/09/sophomore-lum-to-start-at-quarterback-for-lehigh.html

Where is LFN with the scoop?


Franks

It was posted on LU board a couple of hours ago. 1st info on it was in game notes.

Come on Franks, I have to give Rich some hours in the sun! Besides, we're all on suicide watch! :p

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Then the drinks are on me.

Mental note: Wander past pavillion after game. :D

[RichH2]

xrolleyesx At least thepre and post game tailgates s/b fun. What is weather for Sat down in the LV

[carney2]

xrolleyesx At least thepre and post game tailgates s/b fun. What is weather for Sat down in the LV

"Showers likely. Highs in the lower 70s. Chance of rain 70 percent."

[Pards Rule]

How bout for New Haven Carney. I will be northbound & down on Friday about noon.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"Showers likely. Highs in the lower 70s. Chance of rain 70 percent."

If this holds true, isn't this the worst possible news for the Mountain Hawks? If the passing game is the way this is going to go, a shower-filled day doesn't seem to be the best possible situation for Lum to start.

Conversely, Harvard QB's mobility and ability to rush the ball would put him at a huge advantage.

[carney2]

How bout for New Haven Carney. I will be northbound & down on Friday about noon.

Stay home.

"Showers likely. Breezy with highs around 70. Chance of rain 70 percent."

I am reconsidering, and Pard94 is now estimating his chances of being there as low. If this forecast holds for another day or so, I'll most likely be settling in with Laubach and Leone on LSN.

[Ivytalk]

"Showers likely. Highs in the lower 70s. Chance of rain 70 percent."

Crap! Note to self: get new poncho!:p

[carney2]

Crap! Note to self: get new poncho!:p

Now, here's a fan. No thought of watching TV or listening to the radio, just "what will I need to get thru this?" And, an away game, no less. You're my hero, IT.

[Ivytalk]

Now, here's a fan. No thought of watching TV or listening to the radio, just "what will I need to get thru this?" And, an away game, no less. You're my hero, IT.

Thanks, carney! But I can't pass up that ngineer-engineered tailgate!

Then again, my worst experience as a Harvard fan -- the shutout loss to Yale at the Bowl in '81 -- was endured in crappy weather: COLD rain in THE WORST CITY IN AMERICA (next to Camden, NJ).:p

[Tribe4SF]

Crap! Note to self: get new poncho!:p

Skip the poncho, IT....GoreTex baby!xnodx

Looks like we'll be wet at Villanova also.

[RichH2]

Another advantage forLUm also, he can run much more athletic than Clark.xrolleyesx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Another advantage forLUm also, he can run much more athletic than Clark.xrolleyesx

You're reaching with that one. Harvard has the upper hand any way you look at it. Lehigh has to hope the Crimson make a bunch of mistakes.

[ngineer]

I'm reading 'scattered showers'...doesn't seem like a monsoon or anything heavy. I have a Marmot rain suit that served me well during the Hurricane Ivan fiasco with Holy Cross. Also, some 'elegant' Lehigh umbrellas.;)

[Pards Rule]

Oh, Carney you're such an Eli!! A little rain wont hurt you! I cannot believe you might miss this historic moment in Pard football history - first win over Yale!

[Ivytalk]

Skip the poncho, IT....GoreTex baby!xnodx

Looks like we'll be wet at Villanova also.

Man, it would be sweet if the Tribe pulled that one off! Good luck, and I hope to tailgate with you next time I'm in the Burg!

I forgot all about that GoreTex rain suit that I have! Now, if only I can still fit into it...:o

[Ivytalk]

You're reaching with that one. Harvard has the upper hand any way you look at it. Lehigh has to hope the Crimson make a bunch of mistakes.

Sandbagger!xmadx

:p

[RichH2]

If it was nearby I woudn't have to reach xwhistlex But seriously Lum is more athletic. I think he will give us a better offense that does not necessarily mean we will win. Yup, do think we will need harvard mistakes and hope Lum's wont cost us points. D a bit banged up still Pierce back should help tho. Very close game last year. Harvard qb has been a 1 man O so far this year. He seems to be quite good. running qbs are the bane of Coach K's D. With Brown and Pierce mayhaps we can slow him down a bit.xthumbsupx

[LUHawker]

Harvard qb has been a 1 man O so far this year. He seems to be quite good. running qbs are the bane of Coach K's D. With Brown and Pierce mayhaps we can slow him down a bit.xthumbsupx

Coach K's 3-4 defensive scheme hasn't worked. Sure it has been a bend, not break defense, but many of Lehigh's 10 losses by less 4 points in the past 3+ yrs have been because the defense hasn't been able to make the crucial stop. Why is that? Because the 3-man front in the fourth quarter is gased, and they get no pressure. It's great that Lehigh has a stout linebacking corp - problem is the offense gets to them too often. I hate the 3-4. xmadx

[ngineer]

Confirmed today at media day that Lum will be starting Saturday. Coen says he brought more 'energy' to the offense.xconfusedx I thought he was going to evaluate the film and see who executed better or whether Clark's mistakes were due to some other reason than the obvious. I agree that the offense seemed to respond better with Lum at the controls, but it seems he's giving a generic non-objective reason other than 'it feels good', which was his reason for not kicking the fieldgoal with 8+ minutes to go against Princeton.

[LehighFan11]

I hope the weather is nice because i know the game will be ugly. I was glad I couldn't make it to last weeks game because that sounded just flat out embarrassing.

[RichH2]

Gut feelings for some seem to work like magic.xconfusedx OK, if it works , better for most of us humans to follow the old saw that the good luck follows hard work and preparationxreadx

[carney2]

Oh, Carney you're such an Eli!! A little rain wont hurt you! I cannot believe you might miss this historic moment in Pard football history - first win over Yale!

Actually, win or lose, the Pards appear at the Yale Bowl so infrequently (last time was 1990) that you don't know when - or if - there will be another chance. Am debating, but my traveling companion seems dead set against another game in the rain.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Actually, win or lose, the Pards appear at the Yale Bowl so infrequently (last time was 1990) that you don't know when - or if - there will be another chance. Am debating, but my traveling companion seems dead set against another game in the rain.

Yale Bowl is an awesome place to watch a game. Of all the places i've been to, to see Lehigh play, Yale in October is about as good as it gets.

[Go...gate]

Gotta believe this is going to be a great game. Harvard has a capable team and Lehigh is due to break out.

[ngineer]

Yale Bowl is an awesome place to watch a game. Of all the places i've been to, to see Lehigh play, Yale in October is about as good as it gets.

IMO, it's a place one should visit at least once in their lifetime if they follow football; however, after getting over the enormity of it, it really is a pit. Seats are horribly far from the field (take field glasses if you got 'em) The restrooms and concessions are OUTSIDE the stadium. You could miss half a quarter by going to either mid-game, so plan ahead.

[Ivytalk]

Yale Bowl is an awesome place to watch a game. Of all the places i've been to, to see Lehigh play, Yale in October is about as good as it gets.

Except for Harvard Stadium in November!:D

[DFW HOYA]

Agreed that the Yale Bowl is a must-see: I'd also add Harvard Stadium and Franklin Field.

It's probably worth another thread, but there aren't a lot of must-see stadia in I-AA.

[Pards Rule]

Actually, win or lose, the Pards appear at the Yale Bowl so infrequently (last time was 1990) that you don't know when - or if - there will be another chance. Am debating, but my traveling companion seems dead set against another game in the rain.

I think the weather is breaking in our favor...

[carney2]

I think the weather is breaking in our favor...

This is the wrong thread for this discussion, but just why would that be? Yale has been pretty effective against the run so far (albeit, one of their foes was Georgetown), and the Lafayette ground game has not been a model of efficiency thus far. With O'Neill and the rain, I'm not looking for an aerial circus - at least not an effective one. So, exactly how is this breaking in our favor, weather or any other wise? It looks like what coulda shoulda been our 1st ever "W' vs. the West Haven Dogs has become an uphill fight. This is the perfect example of how The Curse works.

[RichH2]

Getting back to Lehigh- Harvard for just a second :p, Brickner has a shoulder injury. Winnett's injury apparently more serious than originally thought . Pierce at full speed .

Thank you guys for letting me interject please continue your conversations about the weather and Yale xnodx

[carney2]

Getting back to Lehigh- Harvard for just a second :p, Brickner has a shoulder injury. Winnett's injury apparently more serious than originally thought . Pierce at full speed .

Thank you guys for letting me interject please continue your conversations about the weather and Yale xnodx

Typical Lehigh. Bad manners. Butting into a private conversation to talk about who knows what. I always wondered if this is what went on in classrooms on South Mountain. I assume so because it explains a lot.

[Tribe4SF]

Two straight Saturdays of live FCS football! Life is good.:D

Have fun, IT! Let me know how this one stacks up to what you watched last week.

[Ivytalk]

Have fun, IT! Let me know how this one stacks up to what you watched last week.

Tribe, that one was pretty special! In reading the program, I was surprised to see how tough the Hens had been on W&M in regular-season games at Zabel. The Green and Gold pretty much had their way this time. But I digress.

Mrs. Ivy has told me not to bring any brown and white souvenirs home from Bethlehem this time. They clash with the color scheme, don'tcha know!xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Agreed that the Yale Bowl is a must-see: I'd also add Harvard Stadium and Franklin Field.

It's probably worth another thread, but there aren't a lot of must-see stadia in I-AA.

Check, check, check. Oddly enough, all three are pretty cavernous. I think - though correct me if I'm wrong - all also hosted NFL games.

[RichH2]

Giants were up at Yale for a season, saw them also at Palmer for a preseason game

[Pards Rule]

Check, check, check. Oddly enough, all three are pretty cavernous. I think - though correct me if I'm wrong - all also hosted NFL games.

Only one I will be missing after this weekend is Harvard Stadium

[Ivytalk]

Check, check, check. Oddly enough, all three are pretty cavernous. I think - though correct me if I'm wrong - all also hosted NFL games.

Yep. Harvard hosted the old AFL Patriots for a time, back in the 60s.

[carney2]

Giants were up at Yale for a season, saw them also at Palmer for a preseason game


Harvard hosted the old AFL Patriots for a time, back in the 60s.

And, the NFL's Eagles called Franklin Field their home in, I believe, the late 60s and early 70s.

[bulldog10jw]

Giants were up at Yale for a season, saw them also at Palmer for a preseason game

Actually, the Giants played at the Yale Bowl for two seasons when they were terrible.

One of my buddies, a big Giants fan got season tickets. In two years playing in the Bowl the Giants won one game.

Guess which was the only game my buddy missed. xlolx

http://www.giants.com/history/TheGiantsStadiums.asp

The Giants spent the offseason searching for a place to play their games. The Giants' first choice was the Yale Bowl, but the Yale Bowl representatives turned down the team's first request because it would have meant a blackout for the local schedule due to the blackout rule. The Giants' next choice was to play at Princeton University, but they also turned down the Giants. Things were so bad that when the league announced the 1973 schedule, it didn't even say where the games would be played. In light of the Giants' problems, Commissioner Pete Rozelle, with the help from national politicians, modified the blackout rule so that the rule was only in effect if the game was not sold out in advance. With the rule change came a change of heart by the Yale Bowl representatives. It was official. The Giants would play their first two games of the 1973 season at Yankee Stadium and would play the rest of the schedule and the 1974 season at the Yale Bowl in New Haven, Connecticut.

[Pards Rule]

I think they played the Eagles in one of those games at Yankees - I believe it was a 30-30 tie?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Meanwhile, back in the realm of games that are happening THIS WEEKEND (note: I am keenly aware I was the one that started the tangent), my preview of this game is up:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/game-preview-harvard-at-lehigh.html

Just looks like a tough way for a sophomore to get his first start.

[Ivytalk]

Meanwhile, back in the realm of games that are happening THIS WEEKEND (note: I am keenly aware I was the one that started the tangent), my preview of this game is up:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/game-preview-harvard-at-lehigh.html

Just looks like a tough way for a sophomore to get his first start.

Good analysis, LFN, as always!xbowx Your prediction sounds about right to me. I have one minor nit to pick: in the last seven years, Harvard has won "at least seven games" each year, not "more than seven." To avoid a jinx, I pick Harvard at 6-4 every year!:p

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Good analysis, LFN, as always!xbowx Your prediction sounds about right to me. I have one minor nit to pick: in the last seven years, Harvard has won "at least seven games" each year, not "more than seven." To avoid a jinx, I pick Harvard at 6-4 every year!:p

Fixed. Thanks!

[ngineer]

The Lehigh-Harvard series is tied at 7-7. Hard to believe only 14 games between the two considering their longevity.

[Harvard Worship]

Meanwhile, back in the realm of games that are happening THIS WEEKEND (note: I am keenly aware I was the one that started the tangent), my preview of this game is up:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/game-preview-harvard-at-lehigh.html

Just looks like a tough way for a sophomore to get his first start.

Hey LFN, this is really good. The sarcastic part digging at the Harvard Crimson (the newspaper) is pretty funny, too. I'm impressed you do this level of research & analysis every week. Nice.

Winters brings back the Fitzpatrick magick. I foresee good things this season.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Hey LFN, this is really good. The sarcastic part digging at the Harvard Crimson (the newspaper) is pretty funny, too. I'm impressed you do this level of research & analysis every week. Nice.

Winters brings back the Fitzpatrick magick. I foresee good things this season.

Collier Winters makes Ryan Fitzpatrick look like John Elway. Give it time. The kid just isn't all that good.

Whatever ever happened to the kid from Exeter out of CA?

[ngineer]

Forecast for Goodman looking "iffy"...At the moment scattered showers starting Friday and extending into Saturday is the order of the day. However, there is a fair chance that the rain could be over by early afternoon, all depending on how fast the system moves through as they are calling for sunny skies late afternoon.

[ngineer]

Menu is up for the tailgate. In honor of our Crimson guests we shall be dining on John Harvard Pilgrim Lamb, with various trimmings, and various beverages ;)

[Ivytalk]

Menu is up for the tailgate. In honor of our Crimson guests we shall be dining on John Harvard Pilgrim Lamb, with various trimmings, and various beverages ;)

Have cooler, will travel!:Dxnodx

[carney2]

Menu is up for the tailgate. In honor of our Crimson guests we shall be dining on John Harvard Pilgrim Lamb, with various trimmings, and various beverages ;)

So, you're going to slaughter a baby sheep in the honor of sport and fun?! A pox on all of you Featherheads and all that you touch.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So, you're going to slaughter a baby sheep in the honor of sport and fun?! A pox on all of you Featherheads and all that you touch.

Could be worse. I thought ng would be bringing live lobsters for those lobster shooters I recommended for my "Drink of the Week".

[ngineer]

Could be worse. I thought ng would be bringing live lobsters for those lobster shooters I recommended for my "Drink of the Week".

That would get in my claw...;)

[ngineer]

So, you're going to slaughter a baby sheep in the honor of sport and fun?! A pox on all of you Featherheads and all that you touch.

Hopefully the Crimson have been vaccinated...;)

[RichH2]

Swine are swine whether they go to Lafayette or Harvard. I hope our team has been vaccinated xeyebrowx

[Ivytalk]

Hopefully the Crimson have been vaccinated...;)

Well, I got my flu shot this week!xsmiley_wix

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2009/10/friday-water-cooler-emma-watson-and.html

More Harvard tweaking. xlolx

[Fordham]

Check, check, check. Oddly enough, all three are pretty cavernous. I think - though correct me if I'm wrong - all also hosted NFL games.

there's a special playing right now on HBO ... possibly a full series ... about the origins and development of the AFL. One thing they did was play their exhibition games in outlying areas and there was mention of annual game in Bethlehem. I was wondering where they would have played that game?

[carney2]

there's a special playing right now on HBO ... possibly a full series ... about the origins and development of the AFL. One thing they did was play their exhibition games in outlying areas and there was mention of annual game in Bethlehem. I was wondering where they would have played that game?

If not in Lehigh's old Taylor Stadium (which prior generations of ChickenSquawks had enough sense to locate on campus), the only other possibility would be Bethlehem Area School District Stadium which, on a good day, seats about 15,000.

[RichH2]

No even when I was in school we had the Bowl. A new stadium was coming any day. Quite a few years before it was built. The Taylor space was always planned for new dorms and a new student center. There may have been little choice but I doubt anyone appreciated the possible downside to student attendance. With the run of good teams good attendance with a 4th down year crowds dwindling. But at least we have a campus with some space and trees and our own mountain top. Pards hanging on the edge of a darn cliff with no room to spit. Altho, give you guys credit you did put in 1 hell of a stadium and facility.

[ngineer]

Yes, when I was recruited in the late 1960's, the plan to build a stadium where Goodman currently is was already made. There was an architect's model showing the 'new', then unnamed campus, in the valley. The land swap with Bethlehem Steel was around 1964, I believe, when the Steel got the mountain top for the research labs and Lehigh got the valley. Now it's all a 'brown field'...;)

It is possible the HBO show had some misinformation and confused Bethlehem with Allentown, which is a common occurence by outsiders, in the ASD Stadium up until 10-15 years ago, sat about 24,000 and hosted a lot of outsider activities.

[carney2]

No even when I was in school we had the Bowl. A new stadium was coming any day. Quite a few years before it was built. The Taylor space was always planned for new dorms and a new student center. There may have been little choice but I doubt anyone appreciated the possible downside to student attendance. With the run of good teams good attendance with a 4th down year crowds dwindling. But at least we have a campus with some space and trees and our own mountain top. Pards hanging on the edge of a darn cliff with no room to spit. Altho, give you guys credit you did put in 1 hell of a stadium and facility.

The "cliff" is only on one side. The over educated fools who collect big bux to be labeled "administrators" of Lafayette College seem determined to pay outrageous prices for bits and pieces of real estate headed the other direction - into the College Hill residential community. Who knows, maybe - long after you and I are staring at the inside of a box, Rich - there might even be parking at Lafayette.

[RichH2]

Parking, now I know you've gone over the edge xsmhx. Come backCarney, FOLLOW THE LIGHT , xeekx,

Actually like LC campus coming from College Hill side . I still come over before 10am to park at least w/in sight of LC. Some bagels and Irish coffee. Pleasant walk to game. The year I got there late I wound up parking on the sidw of some godforsaken hill and walking forever, misse all of 1st q.
I thought there was some talk about a parking garage that LC and the town were going to build.

Good luck today.xthumbsupx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Should be an interesting game. I don't believe Harvard is as good as they've been in the past but Lehigh pretty much stinks. Harvard will have to make a few mistakes and LU will have to have a couple big plays. The Lehigh offense has the potential to be a train wreck. If Coen comes out running there might be mutiny at Goodman.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There can't be more than 4k people at Goodman on a really nice day.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh scores on the opening drive to take a 7-0 lead.

First time Lehigh has led all season. :o

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh stops Harvard on 4th and 1.

Lehigh actually looks pretty good. Colvin playing as much as Lum so far.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lum throws a pick on a flee-flicker...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

End 1Q Lehigh 7 Harvard 0

Crimson are driving

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Harvard converts on the int.

7-7 about 12:00 left in the 2Q

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lum throws another int xsmhx

This is amazing.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Harvard 14-7 about 8 minutes left in 2Q

Harvard had what looked an earlier TD called incomplete.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh now looks absolutely terrible.

The tv crew better start closing the mics because the nasty words are starting to fly.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh's defense has played great again but their offense is horrendous. Harvard had the ball at the Lehigh 5 but a big sack caused a missed FG to end the half

14-7 Harvard at the half

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Harvard inside the Lehigh 10, about 7 minutes left in the 3rd.

Outside of the first drive of the game Lehigh has about 50 yards.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Harvard 21-7

Lehigh's D being torn up by a 5'10 190lb bruiser. This one might get ugly.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh turns the ball over again as they fumble a screen.

Defense put on their heels again at their own 35.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh's defense comes again as they get an int in the endzone.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

End of the 3Q
21-7 Harvard

I give Lehigh's defense a ton of credit for battling. Their offense is terrible but a lot of that has to do with playcalling.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh runs a 8 yard slant on 4th and 10.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lum picked off for the 3rd time after the defense gets another 3 and out. This is just a mess.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lum picked off for the 4th time on a terrible throw, this time for 6.

Harvard 28 Lehigh 7 with about 6 minutes left.

[LEHIGH61]

Let's go with JB Clark and just see what happens. We don't need a dumb gunslinger.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

0-5 Georgetown at 0-4 Lehigh next week. Might be Lehigh's best chance to get a win this year.

[DFW HOYA]

0-5 Georgetown at 0-4 Lehigh next week. Might be Lehigh's best chance to get a win this year.

Georgetown managed 4 first downs in the second half versus Bucknell. How's that for progress in the Patriot League? xmadx

[ngineer]

Just got back from Goodman where Ivytalk and I had a very 'mellow' afternoon. Needless to say things will be getting quieter on South Mountain. I really don't know where to start. Lum started out great taking the team down the field but Harvard ADJUSTED...something Lehigh has not learned to do. Heavy pressure then started coming at the young Soph and forced throws into coverage that should never have been thrown. Yes he has a good arm, but reading the secondary Harvard was showing was something he didn't learn this week. Two interceptions led directly to Harvard TDs, and one was actually run back for six.

Offensive line did not do a very good job in protection. Lum's mobility actually avoided a number of sacks. I really don't know if Clark would have been any better. He certainly isn't as mobile as Lum.

Defense bent too much on the run with a number of poor arm tackle attempts in the backfield that resulted in big Harvard gains. However, they did come up with enough stops that any Lehigh team in the past would have responded with points going the other way and getting a win. The offensive play calling just plain sucks.
We're just not a very good football team. The offensive packages we send in, I think, are telling the opposition what's coming. I knew a screen pass was coming when Barket was sent in, and sure enough Crimson were waiting for it, blowing Barket up who fumbled and possession lost.

We're scoring 16 points a game and Lehigh is off to its worst start in 27 years.
Next week is Georgetown. A loss to the Hoyas and major problems will occur.

While attendance was lousy, it was expected as the school is on mid-term break, so most of the student body was gone. About half the band was there in brown t-shirts and jeans in the stands and Harvard didn't bring many across the way. With all the options the 'casual' fan has today, they're not going to spend an afternoon watching mediocre football. And while it can be said the the "real season" begins next week with league play, the mindset of this team will really be challenged.

[carney2]

Baffled!

Although I did not expect the kind of season that some of you had in mind, the furthest thing from my mind was to be 2/3 of the way to a losing season on the 1st Saturday in October.

[Ivytalk]

Harvard played a workmanlike but unspectacular game. Cheng Ho ran well, but the Crimson squandered a few opportunities on O. The defense was opportunistic, with 5 takeaways. Our only turnover was an end zone pick. Lehigh has a lot of good young players and will make some noise next year. On to Cornell next week!xthumbsupx

And, as always, thanks to ngineer for a great tailgating experience!

[RichH2]

Just got back. ngineer I have no doubt I missed the best part of the day at the tailgate. Did not get to Goodman until almost halftime. For the 1st time since the frostbite game at Taylor, I left early, mid 4th period. Another day perhaps.

lord , the mistakes. Missed both of our TDs. While final not much different than I expected. The method was too much to look at again.

Lum , kid is the real deal but not ready today. Athletic strong arm but bad reads, threw into coverage Lots of yardage but 4 ints gave Harvard 21 points. OL was Ok for run game, productive from what I saw. Pass protection not very good at all. Harvard front good and had their way with us on passing downs. Admire Lum's guts and cojones under pressure , which he was most of the time, but sometimes take a sack dont throw it up for grabs . He was trying to carry the O by himself and make plays . He is not yet Brett. Some nice catches by wr s

Talent certainly there on O , the confidence to win and coaching are not.

Just watched Andy's postgame. Almost identical as the last 3, D played valiantly but O lacked continuity and made too many mistakes. We have been having same basic problems since weekPlay calling while a bit more adventurous was still bizarrely inconsistent . Way too many " What the hell was he thinking?" play calls. Do we have a qb coach? If not please fire Brown and hire one! Colvin and Campbell looked good.

D

Coach K's D performed well for being on a short field for most of the day. Some missed tackles but a lot of solid play.

Sad to say, Lehigh is a bad team right now. Another coulda woulda shoulda game which is to my mind the prime indicator of a bad team.


Just watched Andy's post game. D playedvaliantly but O lacked continiuty and made too many mistakes. Tired of hearing same song every week. Why cant they fix it?

[ngineer]

Just got back. ngineer I have no doubt I missed the best part of the day at the tailgate. Did not get to Goodman until almost halftime. For the 1st time since the frostbite game at Taylor, I left early, mid 4th period. Another day perhaps.

lord , the mistakes. Missed both of our TDs. While final not much different than I expected. The method was too much to look at again.

Lum , kid is the real deal but not ready today. Athletic strong arm but bad reads, threw into coverage Lots of yardage but 4 ints gave Harvard 21 points. OL was Ok for run game, productive from what I saw. Pass protection not very good at all. Harvard front good and had their way with us on passing downs. Admire Lum's guts and cojones under pressure , which he was most of the time, but sometimes take a sack dont throw it up for grabs . He was trying to carry the O by himself and make plays . He is not yet Brett. Some nice catches by wr s
Talent certainly there on O , the confidence to win and coaching are not.

Just watched Andy's postgame. Almost identical as the last 3, D played valiantly but O lacked continuity and made too many mistakes. We have been having same basic problems since weekPlay calling while a bit more adventurous was still bizarrely inconsistent . Way too many " What the hell was he thinking?" play calls. Do we have a qb coach? If not please fire Brown and hire one! Colvin and Campbell looked good.

D

Coach K's D performed well for being on a short field for most of the day. Some missed tackles but a lot of solid play.

Sad to say, Lehigh is a bad team right now. Another coulda woulda shoulda game which is to my mind the prime indicator of a bad team.


Just watched Andy's post game. D playedvaliantly but O lacked continiuty and made too many mistakes. Tired of hearing same song every week. Why cant they fix it?

Yes, I agree Lum appears to have more tools than Clark. Does throw a better ball, but he also was forcing the issue on too many occasions leading to the ints. We need Phil Stambaugh to come in as QB coach and get rid of Brown. I think there is no consistency because there is no rhythm..We're constantly 'shifting gears' with the "wildcat" crap. You don't set up a rhythm when constantly changing pieces. Too much gadget crap and not enough fundamental football.xsmhx

Only saving grace now is having Georgetown, Yale and Bucknell next up. Our talent should win the next three games. If so, maybe some kind of mojo can be created to pull an upset in Hamilton...Yeah, I'll have what he's smoking too...xsmhx

[RichH2]

I've been banished to the den. Something about acting like a 2 yr oldxmadx. Day started out bad and just got worse.

Trying to put this in perspective

Small 5-6 1986
5-5-1
6-5
5-6 before a 7-4 year

Higgins 5-5-1 94
8-3
5-6
4-7 before 12-1

When did Walker get in? Thats a plus. wrs great numbers. What happened to 4 wr sets?

I'd like to see some of those big wrs get some time. Do you think Brown was trying to get Barket killed? Kablan not getting time because he hasn't absorbed enuf of the system. What system?xconfusedx

Andy certainly has picked up on the fact that the O lacks continuity. He's remarked on it in his post games the last 2 weeks. I truly wonder if he has a clue as to why that is so? xbangx

[ngineer]

I've been banished to the den. Something about acting like a 2 yr oldxmadx. Day started out bad and just got worse.

Trying to put this in perspective

Small 5-6 1986
5-5-1
6-5
5-6 before a 7-4 year

Higgins 5-5-1 94
8-3
5-6
4-7 before 12-1
When did Walker get in? Thats a plus. wrs great numbers. What happened to 4 wr sets?

I'd like to see some of those big wrs get some time. Do you think Brown was trying to get Barket killed? Kablan not getting time because he hasn't absorbed enuf of the system. What system?xconfusedx

Andy certainly has picked up on the fact that the O lacks continuity. He's remarked on it in his post games the last 2 weeks. I truly wonder if he has a clue as to why that is so? xbangx

So what you're saying, and I somewhat agree, is that if Andy can get the team to limp home with at least a 4-7 record, Sterrett will give him one more year? Walker saw limited time and had a couple nice runs, but there was no consistent run game. Almost half our ground yards came on one play. The only bright thought is that there is only one senior on the offense.

[RichH2]

Yup with a win vs LC thats what I see. At some point the players and coaches on O will mesh. I believe that only because they did last year. Have not seen ityet. Lum is really tantalizing . His upside reminds me of Borda.

What if, as may be, we get blown out by Gate and HC and LC is a loss. 4-7 s/b his swan song

[ngineer]

Yup with a win vs LC thats what I see. At some point the players and coaches on O will mesh. I believe that only because they did last year. Have not seen ityet. Lum is really tantalizing . His upside reminds me of Borda.

What if, as may be, we get blown out by Gate and HC and LC is a loss. 4-7 s/b his swan song

Yes, quite possible. However a win over one of those three, and especially Laughteryette, would like give him one more year to 'get it together'.

[hawkineer]

Yes, quite possible. However a win over one of those three, and especially Laughteryette, would like give him one more year to 'get it together'.

Geez, if Sterrett thinks that Coen has shown any indication of getting it together in the 3+ years, he is idiot and should have has Lehigh degree voided for stupidity.

The program can't keep pissing away seasons with the hope and prayer that Coen going to finally get it.

Can anyone with a real job imagine any organization putting up with the incompetency of Coen in regards to leadership, motivation,staff selection, and people development? By all key metrics, Coen is a poor performer and should be let go! Maybe we need Jack Welch as the AD!

[ngineer]

Geez, if Sterrett thinks that Coen has shown any indication of getting it together in the 3+ years, he is idiot and should have has Lehigh degree voided for stupidity.

The program can't keep pissing away seasons with the hope and prayer that Coen going to finally get it.

Can anyone with a real job imagine any organization putting up with the incompetency of Coen in regards to leadership, motivation,staff selection, and people development? By all key metrics, Coen is a poor performer and should be let go! Maybe we need Jack Welch as the AD!

I think what we all forget is that we view these things through the lens that is focused in the way we see the NFL or the BCS schools run, i.e. the 'bottom line mentality'...However, this is academia where sports are not a money maker but considered part of the overall education process. Therefore the 'business model' that we are all familiar with does not apply. While the 'win-loss' ratio is not good, it is also not atrocious when one looks historically at Lehigh football. Whitehead, Small and Higgins all had periods of the 'doldrums' with several seasons of mediocre results and people grumbled then, too. The answer, then, as now is that Lehigh is still competitive. A lot of the 'close losses' could have been wins, etc., etc. For this reason, I think Coen will get a reprieve IF the season turns out in the 4-7, 5-6 range. Worse than that, it will depend on how the losses occured. One to three point losses to Colgate, Holy Cross and Laughteryette will be looked upon, in academia, as being hard fought games by students in a program that is clean and in the scheme of 'bigger things' that's okay. I am not saying whether this is right or wrong, but in the immortal words of Walter Conkrite, "That's the way it is."xreadx

[Doc QB]

Whitehead, Small and Higgins all had periods of the 'doldrums' with several seasons of mediocre results and people grumbled then, too. The answer, then, as now is that Lehigh is still competitive.

I was around during the Small years...difference then, and into the early Higgins years (and beyond into the great run for LU fans) was the offense. There was even an article in the alumni mag about "Lighting Up the Skies." I still have it. We put points on the board, we had playmakers, and we had offensive coaches that schemed well, game planned well, were a huge cut above what you have now. With the defensive talent being better on the Mountain these days, keeping the team in games, anything CLOSE to what was on the O during that era would have us all singing a different tune.

Coen came to Lehigh, wanting to be smash mouth. That's never been us. And now, he doesn't have the horses to do that, and doesn't have the playmakers or the offensive staff to give us Air Lehigh. He needs to go. Period. Whole staff. Sorry, it is a business, filled with alumni money, company cars, big salaries (Coen lives down the street from my brother, an ER doc, who has a really nice home). With all that should come wins, and no apologies for wanting them.

Can u list playmakers from today's team compared to guys I shared a locker room with? Horace Hamm, Jason Cristino, Dave Cecchini, Rick Clark, Mark Luckinbill, Laryy Arico...and the Qb's? Kempa, Sempti, Aylesworth. No one comes close today, and those were our playmakers when we put 40 up a game (but sometimes gave up 41....). We don't have the horses or the staff.

[RichH2]

Gerran was the last true difference maker on O for LU,last year Fitzgerald at times was close like Klingerman. This team has some possibles in Colvin, Zurn, Drwal,Flynn,Lum Gordon Barket but none can step up w/o the coaches putting them in position to do so. These kids are special and could be difference makers but OC has O so screwed that it wouldbe nearly impossible for any one of them to become what team needs. D good enuf now and will be better when healthy to keep us in games with anyone. Damn.

[hawkineer]

However, this is academia where sports are not a money maker but considered part of the overall education process. Therefore the 'business model' that we are all familiar with does not apply. While the 'win-loss' ratio is not good, it is also not atrocious when one looks historically at Lehigh football. Whitehead, Small and Higgins all had periods of the 'doldrums' with several seasons of mediocre results and people grumbled then, too. The answer, then, as now is that Lehigh is still competitive. A lot of the 'close losses' could have been wins, etc., etc. For this reason, I think Coen will get a reprieve IF the season turns out in the 4-7, 5-6 range. Worse than that, it will depend on how the losses occured. One to three point losses to Colgate, Holy Cross and Laughteryette will be looked upon, in academia, as being hard fought games by students in a program that is clean and in the scheme of 'bigger things' that's okay.

Thanks for depressing me. First of all, I know Whitehead had some down years. However, during my four years at Lehigh, he won a national championship, played in another final, and made the the playoffs another year. He built up a lot of capital with the fans for some of the off years that followed. Small played a wide open style and did win a P.L. title in 1993. Higgins won PL titles in '95, '98,' 99' and '00. Needless to say fans were going to tolerate a few down years mixed in.

If the goal Lehigh athletics to be competitive but mediocre, it reflects poorly on the University as a whole. So we aspire to less than our P.L. bretheren. I will remember that the next time I get a phone call from the University for a gift or the Athletic Partnership requests some money. I do live in the real world and not academia were performance is rewarded.xnonox

[ngineer]

Thanks for depressing me. First of all, I know Whitehead had some down years. However, during my four years at Lehigh, he won a national championship, played in another final, and made the the playoffs another year. He built up a lot of capital with the fans for some of the off years that followed. Small played a wide open style and did win a P.L. title in 1993. Higgins won PL titles in '95, '98,' 99' and '00. Needless to say fans were going to tolerate a few down years mixed in.

If the goal Lehigh athletics to be competitive but mediocre, it reflects poorly on the University as a whole. So we aspire to less than our P.L. bretheren. I will remember that the next time I get a phone call from the University for a gift or the Athletic Partnership requests some money. I do live in the real world and not academia were performance is rewarded.xnonox

As I said, that's the way it is...However, there was a period of 'doldrums' that lasted 8 good years (1982-1989) with only 2 winning seasons. Small arrived in 1986, and then four straight non-winning seasons with Higgins (1994-97) before the great run that will never, again, be duplicated.

As for another post, the 'smash mouth football' comment is somewhat out of context. When Coen arrived he observed, and everyone agreed, that what Lehigh was lacking was the ability to run the football in the fourth quarter when we had the lead and needed to eat the clock. Everyone grumbled under Lembo how we couldn't hold leads in the fourth quarter and that we were getting manhandled in the trenches.
Coen was here under Small and Higgins, so he knows the 'Air Lehigh' tradition and wants to return to that mold, hence, the recruiting of QBs such as Clark and Lum, who have very good arms and could develop into the classic QB we remember Lehigh producing. However, I do agree that the QB coach seems to wanting. The lack of any development of Threatt and the apparent regression of Clark points to that. I'm not sure what Coen sees in Brown. They were together at Penn, but Brown coached the ends, then, so I have a hard time seeing the connection with the QB/OC position. Coen is responsible for how the ship sails, and right now, it is listing. It's his position to lose or retain.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As I said, that's the way it is...However, there was a period of 'doldrums' that lasted 8 good years (1982-1989) with only 2 winning seasons. Small arrived in 1986, and then four straight non-winning seasons with Higgins (1994-97) before the great run that will never, again, be duplicated.

As for another post, the 'smash mouth football' comment is somewhat out of context. When Coen arrived he observed, and everyone agreed, that what Lehigh was lacking was the ability to run the football in the fourth quarter when we had the lead and needed to eat the clock. Everyone grumbled under Lembo how we couldn't hold leads in the fourth quarter and that we were getting manhandled in the trenches.
Coen was here under Small and Higgins, so he knows the 'Air Lehigh' tradition and wants to return to that mold, hence, the recruiting of QBs such as Clark and Lum, who have very good arms and could develop into the classic QB we remember Lehigh producing. However, I do agree that the QB coach seems to wanting. The lack of any development of Threatt and the apparent regression of Clark points to that. I'm not sure what Coen sees in Brown. They were together at Penn, but Brown coached the ends, then, so I have a hard time seeing the connection with the QB/OC position. Coen is responsible for how the ship sails, and right now, it is listing. It's his position to lose or retain.

I know it's way too late now, but I wonder what Threatt might have been like had he been asked to run the Wildcat back in the day. His athleticism would have made him a dangerous back who could also throw. However, I got he impression that he always saw himself as "the man" at QB and somehow limiting that role would have, to him, seemed like a demotion. Who knows if it could have worked or not.

[Pard94]

I know it's way too late now, but I wonder what Threatt might have been like had he been asked to run the Wildcat back in the day. His athleticism would have made him a dangerous back who could also throw. However, I got he impression that he always saw himself as "the man" at QB and somehow limiting that role would have, to him, seemed like a demotion. Who knows if it could have worked or not.

At the risk of piling on. Threatt was WAAAY overated as a QB. There were times where all he had to do was get the ball from point A to point B and the ball ended up either at the receiver's feet or over their head. That's the kind of coaching he received back in the 9th grade not in college. As a Leopard fan I relished the Sedale Threatt years. Now, the better question would be...what if Threatt was moved to RB or Receiver...much like Randolph at HC was moved to QB. That could be a fun discussion.

[RichH2]

Threatt still playing QB in the AFLwith some success but agree with 94 that Sedale at a slot position as wr and occasional rb would have been interesting

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm thinking as a Matt Szczur-type player who could also throw just to clarify. I understand what you're saying, Pard94, but I'm speculating what might have happened if Lehigh used a scheme that better used his speed and evasive talents. The Wildcat didn't really exist when he was QB, so it's just a fun discussion. As it stands now, Threatt was a QB that never lived up to his potential, unfortunately.

Glad he's still in the AFL, though. Hope he makes it.

[Pard94]

I'm thinking as a Matt Szczur-type player who could also throw just to clarify. I understand what you're saying, Pard94, but I'm speculating what might have happened if Lehigh used a scheme that better used his speed and evasive talents. The Wildcat didn't really exist when he was QB, so it's just a fun discussion. As it stands now, Threatt was a QB that never lived up to his potential, unfortunately.

Glad he's still in the AFL, though. Hope he makes it.

I get it. I just think his throwing ability was what was overated. Any scheme that required the ball purposely leaving his hand with the intent of it reaching someone else's hands was going to be trouble for him. He was Vick-like except that Vick was a better passer (and I assume Sedale was kind to animals)...which isn't saying much. He was a hell of an athlete and might have been better off if someone recognized that he had all the skills to make an excellent (insert a different position here). My heart was in my throat when he started running with the ball but I would calm down the minute I saw him draw the ball back for a pass.

I hope the AFL makes it at this point.

[LU73]

I can understand Pard94's assessment of Threatt because those of us who saw all of his games know that his worst games came against Lafayette. In the middle of Threatt's sophomore season, Borda went out with an injury and Threatt became the starter for the rest of the season. It really appeared by the end of that season he was destined to have a great career. Well, within a couple months Coen arrived. Does anyone see a connection here or was that only a coincidence?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I can understand Pard94's assessment of Threatt because those of us who saw all of his games know that his worst games came against Lafayette. In the middle of Threatt's sophomore season, Borda went out with an injury and Threatt became the starter for the rest of the season. It really appeared by the end of that season he was destined to have a great career. Well, within a couple months Coen arrived. Does anyone see a connection here or was that only a coincidence?

I don't believe Coen did any favors for Threatt. Lembo basically changed the offense for Threatt in to what Rodriguez was running at WVU. Threatt's play against Colgate that year was one of the best that i've seen by a Lehigh QB. The loss to Lafayette didn't fall on him. It came down to one play and the Lafayette's offense made it. If Lembo was really good at one thing it was getting the most out of his QB's. Hall, Cianello, Keating, Borda and Threatt all played well under his watch. Schwenk wasn't even bad. He struggled in 2002 but the whole team was hurt. He was having a good season before he got hurt against Uconn in 2003.

Coen or his staff haven't developed one good QB since they got here and with arguement ruined another. The lack of any progress, player development on offense is alarming.

The defense is very good imo. They could create more turnovers but they don't give up many points which is what really matters.

[RichH2]

Owl, depressingly accurate summary of Coen's Offense. xnonono2x Do we have a qb coach? If so can we shoot him or would that be bad xwhistlex