Ivy-PL Scheduling Changes

[DFW HOYA]

Some news from the blogs suggest some Ivy schools are considering pulling out of long-standing arrangements with PL schools. Not sure if it is scholarship talk that is driving it, however.

From the Big Green Alert blog, news that Dartmouth may end its series with Colgate:
http://biggreenalertblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/colorado-state-ram-blings.html

From Crossports.com, news that Holy Cross may have to find some new opponents in the future:
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=33744&threadid=2077105

[Jackman]

Who exactly does the Ivy League intend to schedule if not the Patriot?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think it's a wee bit early to call this a trend at the moment. Dartmouth is looking desperately to downgrade competition their 10-game schedules, and playing a brutal three-game OOC schedule against Colgate, HC and UNH means that something was going to have to give - and Colgate as the longest road trip for the Big Green, makes the most sense. Furthermore, Dartmouth also dropped UNH - they want wins.

As for the HC board posting, it went from "we're worried about Harvard and Dartmouth dropping us" to "holy s***, Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth are dropping us" in about 4.2 seconds. I don't think HC or Harvard are going to drop HC soon, who count the 'Cross as rivals (and have handed Harvard two awesome games in '07 and '08).

H-Y-P haven't shown any inkling that they want to abandon Lehigh, and judging by the Ivies domination of Lehigh and Lafayette over the past few years I don't see that changing anytime soon. IMO, there is less to this than meets the eye.

[Franks Tanks]

I think it's a wee bit early to call this a trend at the moment. Dartmouth is looking desperately to downgrade competition their 10-game schedules, and playing a brutal three-game OOC schedule against Colgate, HC and UNH means that something was going to have to give - and Colgate as the longest road trip for the Big Green, makes the most sense. Furthermore, Dartmouth also dropped UNH - they want wins.

As for the HC board posting, it went from "we're worried about Harvard and Dartmouth dropping us" to "holy s***, Harvard, Yale and Dartmouth are dropping us" in about 4.2 seconds. I don't think HC or Harvard are going to drop HC soon, who count the 'Cross as rivals (and have handed Harvard two awesome games in '07 and '08).

H-Y-P haven't shown any inkling that they want to abandon Lehigh, and judging by the Ivies domination of Lehigh and Lafayette over the past few years I don't see that changing anytime soon. IMO, there is less to this than meets the eye.

Lafayette has played Penn, Princeton and Columbia forever and I expect those rivalries to continue for some time. Perhaps we will play Harvard less in the future when former Lafayette coach Murphy is gone at Harvard. We rarely play the rest of the Ivies anyway so its not even an issue, although we do have a series with Yale staring soon.

Oh and we beat Penn two years in a row and Columbia about 7 years in a row. Harvard and Princeton give us nightmares.

[Dane96]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1361486]I think it's a wee bit early to call this a trend at the moment. Dartmouth is looking desperately to downgrade competition their 10-game schedules, and playing a brutal three-game OOC schedule against Colgate, HC and UNH...QUOTE]


Is that a joke? I dont consider playing those three teams BRUTAL. Heck, the top portion of the NEC plays that on a regular basis (as does the PL).

Again, to our point why the IVY's are VASTLY overrated because they have the moniker "IVY."

If the NEC or PL made this statement of reducing schedules...etc...we would be blasted.xrulesx

[Franks Tanks]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1361486]I think it's a wee bit early to call this a trend at the moment. Dartmouth is looking desperately to downgrade competition their 10-game schedules, and playing a brutal three-game OOC schedule against Colgate, HC and UNH...QUOTE]


Is that a joke? I dont consider playing those three teams BRUTAL. Heck, the top portion of the NEC plays that on a regular basis (as does the PL).

Again, to our point why the IVY's are VASTLY overrated because they have the moniker "IVY."

If the NEC or PL made this statement of reducing schedules...etc...we would be blasted.xrulesx

In Dartmouth's specific case it would be brutal. But they have won about 8 games over the last 5 years so take that witha grain of salt.

Everything you are saying is also pure conjecture. When Albany played Lehigh a few years ago and beat them, Lehigh also lost to Harvard and Princeton by larger margins than Albany. Vastly imperfect comparion, but all there really is to go on.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Is that a joke? I dont consider playing those three teams BRUTAL. Heck, the top portion of the NEC plays that on a regular basis (as does the PL).

Please enlighten me as to which NEC team last year played two playoff teams.

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm mildly surprised, given this talk from Dartmouth has been around for a while. Even in the fairly repetitive world of Ivy scheduling, there's was literally the same 10 teams in the same order every single year

Nice for us that it'll open up another OOC slot, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Green now and again for history's sake

[aceinthehole]

LFN - how can you call a 3-game slate of HC, 'Gate, and UNH a brutal non-conf schedule? That is a very good schedule, but by no means "brutal," especially when no more than 2 of the games were on the road in 1 season.

These are tougher non-conference schedules compared to Dartmouth:
(Albany 2008) @ UMass, @ Hofstra, @ UNH, @ Delaware
(Albany 2007) @ Colgate, @ Fordham, vs Hofstra, at Montana
(Monmouth 2008) @ URI, vs. Maine, vs. Costal Carolina
(Monmouth 2007) @ Maine, @ Delaware, @ Stony Brook
(CCSU 2008) @ North Dakota St., @ Delaware St.
(CCSU 2007) @ Towson, @ Western Michigan
(CCSU 2003) @ UNH, @ UMass
(CCSU 2002) @ Maine, @ UMass

[Ivytalk]

Harvard plays the same schedule in '10 as in '08 and '09. Then we drop Lehigh in '11 and Holy Cross in '12. Lafayette still appears on Harvard's future schedules through '12. One rumor is that Harvard will play San Diego in a few years.

[Go...gate]

Dartmouth really seems to think it can just play the Ivies and fill in the non-league opponents with lesser lights. I have noticed their basketball scheduling philosophy going in that direction in the past twenty years, as well. All they seem to care about any more is the Ivy competition.

[Go...gate]

Who exactly does the Ivy League intend to schedule if not the Patriot?

Pioneer schools, most likely.

[Husky Alum]

Any Ivy looking for a game against NU can give us a call.

We'd be happy to play them.

We have told the New England Ivies we'd love to have them on our schedule.

Perhaps if Dartmouth drops UNH, we could play them. Our AD is a former Dartmouth basketball player.

[colorless raider]

Dartmouth really seems to think it can just play the Ivies and fill in the non-league opponents with lesser lights. I have noticed their basketball scheduling philosophy going in that direction in the past twenty years, as well. All they seem to care about any more is the Ivy competition.

Dartmouth is replacing us with Sacred Heart. "Big...what?"

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Dartmouth is replacing us with Sacred Heart. "Big...what?"

That was one of my first guesses of who would pop up on future Dartmouth schedules. xrotatehx xlolx xlolx Marist was guess number two. After that I guessed St. Anselm's, Merrimack College, Amherst, Williams, Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bates and Colby. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

[Husky Alum]

That was one of my first guesses of who would pop up on future Dartmouth schedules. xrotatehx xlolx xlolx Marist was guess number two. After that I guessed St. Anselm's, Merrimack College, Amherst, Williams, Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bates and Colby. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Williams? C'mon, they'd beat Dartmouth.

I was thinking of Lyndon State, Nichols, WNEC, Plymouth State, SNHU (oh, they don't play football - maybe that's a good game for Dartmouth then), Springfield, WPI and even perhaps Endicott.

[carney2]

Again, to our point why the IVY's are VASTLY overrated because they have the moniker "IVY."

Would love to see some of the Ivy luminaries (not all of them) come out of their cocoon and schedule some of the "name" FCS schools. There would be some very unexpected outcomes. Harvard appears to be the only Ivy that could perform at a consistently high level at this time, but I believe they would do very well.

[DFW HOYA]

Ivy schools are loath to travel outside the league's footprint.

Outside of a series with William & Mary in the 1980's, Harvard has not traveled south or west of the state of Pennsylvania in over 60 years.

[RichH2]

Wow, knew Harvard was parochial and local in their opponents, never realized that their arrogance ltd schedules solely to the northeast and for 60 YEARS.

Gee, maybe PL should charge them more for games (lol)

[OL FU]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1361486]I think it's a wee bit early to call this a trend at the moment. Dartmouth is looking desperately to downgrade competition their 10-game schedules, and playing a brutal three-game OOC schedule against Colgate, HC and UNH...QUOTE]


Is that a joke? I dont consider playing those three teams BRUTAL. Heck, the top portion of the NEC plays that on a regular basis (as does the PL).

Again, to our point why the IVY's are VASTLY overrated because they have the moniker "IVY."

If the NEC or PL made this statement of reducing schedules...etc...we would be blasted.xrulesx

He was talking about Dartmouthxnodx Newberry, North Greenville and Christ Church High school would be brutal OCC:):o

[NHwildEcat]

Williams? C'mon, they'd beat Dartmouth.

I was thinking of Lyndon State, Nichols, WNEC, Plymouth State, SNHU (oh, they don't play football - maybe that's a good game for Dartmouth then), Springfield, WPI and even perhaps Endicott.

SNHU football has been undefeated since 1932! I would know I went there!!!

HAHA

[andy7171]

I wish Towson would drop the stupid Morgan State game and play someone new. I'd like to see us play an Ivy not named Yale. We could play Princeton in the "Lacrosse Bowl"!

[Go...gate]

I wish Towson would drop the stupid Morgan State game and play someone new. I'd like to see us play an Ivy not named Yale. We could play Princeton in the "Lacrosse Bowl"!

But that is a pretty big game in the Baltimore City area, right? I would think it would draw a nice crowd.

[Jackman]

Dartmouth vs. UMass-Dartmouth would be perfect for them. If they win, they can say they beat UMass, and if they lose, they can say Dartmouth won.

[NHwildEcat]

[QUOTE=Jackman;1362960]Dartmouth vs. UMass-Dartmouth would be perfect for them. If they win, they can say they beat UMass, and if they lose, they can say Dartmouth won.[/QUOTE

I like that idea!!xlolx

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

That was one of my first guesses of who would pop up on future Dartmouth schedules. xrotatehx xlolx xlolx Marist was guess number two. After that I guessed St. Anselm's, Merrimack College, Amherst, Williams, Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts, Bowdoin, Bates and Colby. xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx xrolleyesx

Don't forget Hamilton! And, .... maybe the Big Green can get Conn College to put together a club team to play them. xlolx

Buddy sure needs some wins in a hurry! So, stay away from St. John Fisher!

[Ivytalk]

Don't forget Hamilton! And, .... maybe the Big Green can get Conn College to put together a club team to play them. xlolx

Buddy sure needs some wins in a hurry! So, stay away from St. John Fisher!

This is getting close to smack!xnonox

But true!:pxbowx

[andy7171]

But that is a pretty big game in the Baltimore City area, right? I would think it would draw a nice crowd.

Hardly. Neither school gets any local support. Towson always shows up flat, Morgan always finds a way to lose. It's tired. xnonono2x

14009

..plus, how come this uniform match up didn't get the play that USC/UCLA did?

[Scumdog0331]

Ivy schools are loath to travel outside the league's footprint.

Outside of a series with William & Mary in the 1980's, Harvard has not traveled south or west of the state of Pennsylvania in over 60 years.

Tell me about it...with such high academic standards we have to recruit nationally to remain competitive, yet we don't dare wander too far from the I-95 corridor for a game, so kids from, say, Texas or Florida, could play a game closer to home.

This is one of the Ivy League issues that upsets me the most...one.

[Go...gate]

Tell me about it...with such high academic standards we have to recruit nationally to remain competitive, yet we don't dare wander too far from the I-95 corridor for a game, so kids from, say, Texas or Florida, could play a game closer to home.

This is one of the Ivy League issues that upsets me the most...one.

I know that this has been an issue in Princeton's recruiting and fan support. Many PU alumni, for example, would like to see Princeton play somebody like Rice, SMU, Stanford or Air Force, for example, as all are in regions where Princeton has a lot of alumni.

[RichH2]

I think all of us would like some more extensive OOC scheduling for us West and mid west. More FCS schools now in both areas , would help recruiting and be nice for kids. South would be great for H&H Elon , Wofford , G-W, et al

[Seawolf97]

I know that this has been an issue in Princeton's recruiting and fan support. Many PU alumni, for example, would like to see Princeton play somebody like Rice, SMU, Stanford or Air Force, for example, as all are in regions where Princeton has a lot of alumni.

While that would be a great schedule to play against without 63 scholarships I dont think it will happen. Some of those games would probably be winnable for a top tier Ivy team.

[ngineer]

I think all of us would like some more extensive OOC scheduling for us West and mid west. More FCS schools now in both areas , would help recruiting and be nice for kids. South would be great for H&H Elon , Wofford , G-W, et al


No question, but with current economies I don't see that happening much. It's been over 10 years since Lehigh went west to St. Mary's in California. We are supposed to go to Drake in 2010 in a return match from their visit to Goodman last year. We did a foray to Wofford in late '90's as well, but another visit to a few of the SoCons would be great. Unfortunately, a lot of those schools use their open dates to get money games with FBS schools so that eliminates much of a chance of that occuring.

[RichH2]

Too true, now $$$ talks everyone else plays CCSU. Nice squad but it is a$ game for them. It was nice to play some teams like Army et al. Recall the Virginia game we lost by one. Whitehead went for 2 instead of tie. Great game

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Tell me about it...with such high academic standards we have to recruit nationally to remain competitive, yet we don't dare wander too far from the I-95 corridor for a game, so kids from, say, Texas or Florida, could play a game closer to home.

This is one of the Ivy League issues that upsets me the most...one.

As so many other things regarding the Ivy League, the abstention of playing rivals south and west stems from the Ivy League agreement of 1948 and the feelings of the Ivy League during its founding in the 1950s. In 1949, Harvard suffered through an awful 1-8 season (one of their worst seasons ever), and shortly after the season their AD, Bill Bingham, formally declared that it was the "end of the Big Three" in big-time athletics and from that moment on Harvard was going to focus on playing "in our own class, against schools of the Ivy League". "Intersectional" games out West and South were out, and "Ivy League" schools were in.

Now I don't think the occasional game with San Diego, Cal Poly or The Citadel will cause the end of the Ivy League, and it's high time the Ivy League crawled out of its shell to play these games - preferably with an 11th game. But there is a reason why there haven't been many games, and as so many other IL decisions it is rooted in history.

[Franks Tanks]

As so many other things regarding the Ivy League, the abstention of playing rivals south and west stems from the Ivy League agreement of 1948 and the feelings of the Ivy League during its founding in the 1950s. In 1949, Harvard suffered through an awful 1-8 season (one of their worst seasons ever), and shortly after the season their AD, Bill Bingham, formally declared that it was the "end of the Big Three" in big-time athletics and from that moment on Harvard was going to focus on playing "in our own class, against schools of the Ivy League". "Intersectional" games out West and South were out, and "Ivy League" schools were in.

Now I don't think the occasional game with San Diego, Cal Poly or The Citadel will cause the end of the Ivy League, and it's high time the Ivy League crawled out of its shell to play these games - preferably with an 11th game. But there is a reason why there haven't been many games, and as so many other IL decisions it is rooted in history.


But if you look back at the records from those years Harvard was already playing pretty much just the Ivies. The schedule the year they went 1-8 was all the current Ivies except Penn and Stanford, Army, and Holy Cross.

The Ivies have always played a pretty small core of schools for the most part, even way back when.

[Go...gate]

But if you look back at the records from those years Harvard was already playing pretty much just the Ivies. The schedule the year they went 1-8 was all the current Ivies except Penn and Stanford, Army, and Holy Cross.

The Ivies have always played a pretty small core of schools for the most part, even way back when.

Point well taken, but not entirely correct. Penn played a national schedule (California, ND, others) as late as the mid-50's. Cornell played Michigan a couple of times in the 1950's. Princeton played Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan and others in the early 30's. After the Ivies formed, however, it was all over.