FBS transfers-are they a success? [Archive]

Wildcat80

March 17th, 2009, 05:40 AM

89Hen

March 17th, 2009, 08:40 AM

Did losing the title diminish his record?
Only if you think he would have been drafted at all, let alone first rounder, if he stayed at Pitt. Flacco's move worked for him and the Hens. But obviously they don't all work. xpeacex

LBPop

March 17th, 2009, 12:34 PM

My guess is that they work out a little better than high school recruits, but not to the degree that one would expect. In my limited exposure to FCS ("I-AA" still sounds better to me), I think there is the presumption that a kid who was recruited to I-A schools "must be a lot better" than the typical FCS recruit. Well sometimes a kid makes a mistake choosing the school (Flacco?), but my guess is that more often the school has made a mistake choosing the kid.

Just like with the NFL combine, college coaches get enamoured of the "measurables". But then they learn that he's not a player. I think the Rivals and Scout gang do that. It's not a weight lifting competition or a track meet. Sometimes I want to paraphrase Shooter McGavin and shout, "Damn you people, this is football!" xrolleyesx

kperk014

March 17th, 2009, 12:43 PM

Since UNA just landed Harrison Beck from NC State, I'm hoping that the fresh start, after going through the chaos that ended Bill Callahan's time at Nebraska and a head coaching change at NC State, will get him back on the track. Since he was rated one of the top QBs in the nation coming out of high school, he's probably got the talent, he just needs the stability. I'm just glad he didn't come in last year (Another coaching change)! Another plus is he's not bringing "baggage."

http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20090317/ARTICLES/903175027/1142/SPORTS?Title=Lions-land-QB-commitment-from-Wolfpack-s-Beck

Wildcat80

March 17th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Only if you think he would have been drafted at all, let alone first rounder, if he stayed at Pitt. Flacco's move worked for him and the Hens. But obviously they don't all work. xpeacex

Of course we do not know what might have happened if he stayed at pitt.....but i heard he really motivated the play of ASU's defense! Schoenhoft OSU & Jabbie from ND probably did not work out as well. Talley ND had a good year though not all conference. Hofstra's Vernaglia ND also did not make all caa. Is there a bias against these players for All Conference honors or do they simply not deserve it?

Redwyn

March 17th, 2009, 06:52 PM

On a slightly related topic, does anyone have an opinion regarding JC transfers? They seem to be doing wonders at SBU at the moment. Any success stories there?

Ivytalk

March 17th, 2009, 06:54 PM

Harvard had a Tulane QB transfer a few years back (Richard Irvin), but he never had a starting role.

PaladinFan

March 17th, 2009, 07:12 PM

How do you evaluate the transfers either your program got or your opponents? Is it a successful approach to winning FCS football? Probably the most publicized transfer was Flacco to Delaware. Did losing the title diminish his record? Will Devlin have to win it to be a success? Would you prefer your program only recruit high school players & develop them? Should transfers be restricted?

Flacco to UD might have been the most publicized in the CAA, but a backup at Pitt transferring to an FCS doesn't exactly send ripples throughout the FCS world.

I think you can make a case that Ingle Martin's transferring to Furman was just as impactful. Martin had been a starter for the Gators only to lose his position to Chris Leak. Regardless of whether you are a casual fan or not, everyone associates University of Florida with strong quarterbacks.

Martin's numbers were staggering in his two years in purple. I think a strong argument could be made that Furman had the best team in the country in 2004 and 2005. JMU beat Furman on the road after a laundry list of flukey plays that went the Dukes way. App State won the 2005 championship after Furman beat them in the regular season and played stride for stride with them in the ice in Boone in the semis. Had Furman managed one more play in that game, it would have been them who would have faced a completely overmatched UNI team in the NC.

Certainly then, given the right chemistry, a big transfer can make a team a lot better. Not always true though. Look at Jacksonville State. Still a good team, but Perriloux has not had near the impact that guys like Martin and Flacco had in much tougher conferences.

spdram

March 17th, 2009, 07:22 PM

Depends -- why is he transfering, was he a misfit, or just a bad choice? Does he think to highly of himself and is not willing to pay the price, or did they just recruit around him? Probably the most important question is do you have a need for him? If you get to many transfers it makes it harder to get quality HS'rs. Who wants to come to a school, wait their turn only to be passed by with a transfer. All in all I'd rather take my chances with the HS kids and bring them into the program as they are ready.

RichH2

March 17th, 2009, 09:31 PM

blukeys

March 17th, 2009, 09:58 PM

They generally are not magic.Some like Flacco work wonders but Iwould guess that more do not have much impact. Lehigh has accepted a few over the years with ltd success. One qb who started at Rutgers great kid excellent athlete lousy qb.

The truth is Lehigh has accepted at least 2 QB transfers from ................. DELAWARE !!!xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolley esxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx, since 2002.

So much for the purity of the PL conference.xrolleyesx

My view is that if a FBS makes an impact on the field then it is a successful transfer. They need not be a Joe Flacco.

Delaware has had a few very great impact transfers over the years. They have also had many unheralded but very solid producing athletes that have contributed mightily to the program's success who transferred from other programs.

I wish that there was a complete list and I am sure some other Hen Fans could complete this for me but in the end I think of great guys such as:

Vern Laws (Penn)
Jeff Fiss (Temple)
Ryan McDermott (Louisville)

There are many more since 2000. It is late and I don't want to start looking names up. That and I know that many UD posters will complete my list. xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wix

PaladinFan

March 17th, 2009, 10:06 PM

The truth is Lehigh has accepted at least 2 QB transfers from ................. DELAWARE !!!xrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolley esxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesxxrolleyesx, since 2002.

So much for the purity of the PL conference.xrolleyesx

My view is that if a FBS makes an impact on the field then it is a successful transfer. They need not be a Joe Flacco.

Delaware has had a few very great impact transfers over the years. They have also had many unheralded but very solid producing athletes that have contributed mightily to the program's success who transferred from other programs.

I wish that there was a complete list and I am sure some other Hen Fans could complete this for me but in the end I think of great guys such as:

Vern Laws (Penn)
Jeff Fiss (Temple)
Ryan McDermott (Louisville)

There are many more since 2000. It is late and I don't want to start looking names up. That and I know that many UD posters will complete my list. xsmiley_wixxsmiley_wixxsmiley_wix

I don't necessarily agree with Delaware's approach though. Why even bother to recruit if all the program does is import talent from guys not good enough to cut it at other programs?

catdaddy2402

March 17th, 2009, 10:15 PM

I'd imagine the success/failure rate for FBS transfers is right around the same as the success/failure rate for high school players. It's just that the FBS transfers are in the public eye a lot more, so when they don't work out they seem like more of a flop.

blukeys

March 17th, 2009, 10:17 PM

I don't necessarily agree with Delaware's approach though. Why even bother to recruit if all the program does is import talent from guys not good enough to cut it at other programs?

So you think Joe Flacco could not cut it at another program? He is doing better than any Furman QB in the pros.

Sean Johnson was a team captain at Duke when he transferred as was Ben Patrick. Jeff Fiss was a STARTER at his school when he transferred Which Ingle Martin the failed SEC QB (just which pro team did he start for last year?) was not.

Tell me just which of UD's transfers could not cut it at the school they were at previously???

For the record 90% of UD starters were recruited out of high school.

It is obvious you don't gather facts before forming an opinion.

GannonFan

March 17th, 2009, 10:18 PM

I don't necessarily agree with Delaware's approach though. Why even bother to recruit if all the program does is import talent from guys not good enough to cut it at other programs?

Delaware's typically had anywhere from 6-12 transfers on a team at one given time - that's more than 90% of the team that aren't transfers. It's kinda hard to win without that other 90%. UD's team in 2007 had 5 transfers on the 2-deep in the playoffs, and only 2 on offense. People's perceptions about UD's reliance on transfers are often way out of whack with what reality actually is. UD's just had a very good track record of getting some very good and very high impact transfers.

ChickenMan

March 18th, 2009, 07:57 AM

People's perceptions about UD's reliance on transfers are often way out of whack with what reality actually is.

Very true... UD takes actually take fewer transfers than many FCS program. The false perception exists because of the major success of a few of UD's transfers... guys like Andy Hall, Shawn Johnson and Joe Flacco.. all high profile players that played key roles in getting the Hens to Chattanooga. Other top FCS programs have actually had more transfers.. but few of those transfers have made the type of impact of the above mentioned Hens.

Cobblestone

March 18th, 2009, 08:08 AM

I came to the conclusion that transfers are usually for a reason...a negative reason. More often than not I have been greatly disappointed in the FBS (I-A) transfers we've gotten over the years. In particular I can think of two, one was a QB from Kentucky who lost his starting job to a guy named Tim Couch. It didn't take long for me to see why he lost that starting job. Another was a transfer QB from Nebraska. When I first heard this, I said to a friend “this is great, it's no shame to be far down on the depth chart at a place like Nebraska", well soon he was far down on our depth chart as well.

Then there was MR. FOOTBALL from the state of Ohio. This guy was an RB who transferred to us from Ohio State. In fact he even saw a little playing time in his one season with the Buckeyes. This guy ended up being a total pussy. He quits the team during spring practice because... he had stomach cramps.

On the positive side we did have one really great transfer from Clemson. James Jenkins came in around the late 90's (I think) and proceeded to break some URI rushing records. He was easily the best I-A (FBS) transfer that I can personally recall. Too bad they all didn't turn out as well as him.

89Hen

March 18th, 2009, 08:23 AM

People's perceptions about UD's reliance on transfers are often way out of whack with what reality actually is. UD's just had a very good track record of getting some very good and very high impact transfers.

Very true... UD takes actually take fewer transfers than many FCS program. The false perception exists because of the major success of a few of UD's transfers... guys like Andy Hall, Shawn Johnson and Joe Flacco.. all high profile players that played key roles in getting the Hens to Chattanooga. Other top FCS programs have actually had more transfers.. but few of those transfers have made the type of impact of the above mentioned Hens.
Not that you needed it but I will third that statement. Nobody talks about the transfers at Chattanooga. IIRC they have more than just about anyone. The reason they don't talk about them is they haven't made the playoffs in a long time and there are currently no NFL players who went to Chatty. I'm not trying to smear the Mocs (I actually wish they'd improve and fill that nice stadium they have) but I'm just trying to show that it's more perception than reality when it comes to number of transfers.

McTailGator

March 18th, 2009, 08:24 AM

GannonFan

March 18th, 2009, 09:24 AM

I evaluate them on how well they elevate the play of the other players behind, in front of, or around them.

IF any school relies on ONE or two transfers to set the tone of their program, their program is shallow and not going get it done in the end year after year.

Agree. Shawn Johnson would've been wasted at UD had he not walked into a program that already had some leaders (from HS recruits), especially on the defensive side of the ball, like Mike Adams. And Flacco would've remained an unknown had he not been surrounded on the offensive side of the ball by leaders (from HS recruits) like Cuff and Byrne and Hendricks. You can't rely on the transfers to do it all, but when you're close already without them they can put you over the top.

bluehenbillk

March 18th, 2009, 09:40 AM

Agree. Shawn Johnson would've been wasted at UD had he not walked into a program that already had some leaders (from HS recruits), especially on the defensive side of the ball, like Mike Adams. And Flacco would've remained an unknown had he not been surrounded on the offensive side of the ball by leaders (from HS recruits) like Cuff and Byrne and Hendricks. You can't rely on the transfers to do it all, but when you're close already without them they can put you over the top.

That's true. But you can't argue that players like Hall & Johnson & Flacco elevated UD to heights they wouldn't have hit without them. There were at least 2 games I can think of (UMass & Navy) in '03 that I don't think UD wins if they didn't have Johnson, which means they wouldn't have had homefield in the playoffs. Granted they were on such a postseason roll that year it was scary, but worth mentioning.

GannonFan

March 18th, 2009, 10:35 AM

That's true. But you can't argue that players like Hall & Johnson & Flacco elevated UD to heights they wouldn't have hit without them. There were at least 2 games I can think of (UMass & Navy) in '03 that I don't think UD wins if they didn't have Johnson, which means they wouldn't have had homefield in the playoffs. Granted they were on such a postseason roll that year it was scary, but worth mentioning.

Hence my comment of "they can put you over the top". UD was already going to be a very good team in either year, but they needed those extra guys to get to the level beyond that. xthumbsupx

rudy1648

March 18th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Not that you needed it but I will third that statement. Nobody talks about the transfers at Chattanooga. IIRC they have more than just about anyone. The reason they don't talk about them is they haven't made the playoffs in a long time and there are currently no NFL players who went to Chatty. I'm not trying to smear the Mocs (I actually wish they'd improve and fill that nice stadium they have) but I'm just trying to show that it's more perception than reality when it comes to number of transfers.

Looking over Chatty's roster a few years ago, there did seem to be a great number of transfers from FBS schools. We were really amazed at just how many.

One correction though,,,Terrell Owens went to Chatty.

Wildcat80

March 18th, 2009, 02:12 PM

I think the philosophy of DE & UNI are common knowledge--they take alot of FBS transfers. I do not think Richmond does? or App State? What about Montana?

Ivytalk

March 18th, 2009, 02:23 PM

Clifton Dawson, the greatest running back in Harvard history -- and maybe in Ivy history -- was an FBS transfer from Northwestern. How could I forget him?xoopsx

GannonFan

March 18th, 2009, 04:02 PM

I think the philosophy of DE & UNI are common knowledge--they take alot of FBS transfers. I do not think Richmond does? or App State? What about Montana?

We're just talking FBS transfers? UD's transfer numbers I quote also included transfers from other FCS schools as well as a very small number of JUCO's. UD's not even close to being the leader in the CAA, let alone the rest of FCS, when it comes to total transfers. We may not even be in the top half (well, top third maybe ;) ).

Big Dawg

March 18th, 2009, 05:30 PM

Back in the late 90's, Coach Billy Joe relied very heavily on Div I-A/JUCO transfers. This was during FAMU's playoff runs and during our reign of MEAC dominance. FBS transfers really help strong teams get better or provide an extra spark to team that may struggle.

89Hen

March 18th, 2009, 06:35 PM

One correction though,,,Terrell Owens went to Chatty.
I did say currently in the NFL. xnodx xsmiley_wix

89Hen

March 18th, 2009, 06:36 PM

I think the philosophy of DE & UNI are common knowledge--they take alot of FBS transfers. I do not think Richmond does? or App State? What about Montana?
Savannah State doesn't take many either. xcoffeex

PhoenixMan

March 18th, 2009, 09:45 PM

a lot of the FBS transfers are position situations. Lots of guys are hot shot QB or WR in HS and sign with a big school with promises. They get there and find out they are now a safety or TE. All American Terrell Hudgins, great HS QB...went to ECU, knew right away he would never get a snap. Wound up at Elon as WR, and we are glad of it, because he is special. Bring on the FBS transfers! There is a reason they were recruited by FBS schools.

eaglesrthe1

March 18th, 2009, 11:07 PM

I did say currently in the NFL. xnodx xsmiley_wix

T.O. is currently with the Bills.

foghorn

March 18th, 2009, 11:49 PM

Delaware's typically had anywhere from 6-12 transfers on a team at one given time - that's more than 90% of the team that aren't transfers. It's kinda hard to win without that other 90%. UD's team in 2007 had 5 transfers on the 2-deep in the playoffs, and only 2 on offense. People's perceptions about UD's reliance on transfers are often way out of whack with what reality actually is. UD's just had a very good track record of getting some very good and very high impact transfers.

Most of UD transfers are for depth purposes. As an example, the only sure starters for the 2009 team will be Devlin at QB and Gilbeau at DT; the rest of the starters are HS recruits. The perception of UD getting a load of transfers is because of the high profile; i.e., Flacco and Devlin, get. BTW, can't wait to see Devlin throw this Friday at opening spring practice. :)