NCAA Changes Effect on the Ivies

[RadMann]

The article linked below from the Harvard Crimson briefly discusses the recent NCAA division I football changes and their potential impact on the Ancient Eight.

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Published on Friday, April 29, 2005
McGINN 'N' JUICE: I-AA Football Faces Change

By TIMOTHY J. MCGINN
Crimson Staff Writer

After its first 10-0 campaign in a century, the Harvard football team may be on its way to Division I-A.

Sort of.

According to a report in Wednesday’s edition of the New York Times, the NCAA Division I board of directors was expected to explore instituting a series of proposals submitted by several Division I-AA football schools yesterday—proposals which would seek to increase the number of games between I-A and I-AA programs each year and blur the formal distinction between the two tiers.

Of course, the partition would still exist in practice. Programs would indicate whether they would be competing for a bowl bid or entry in what is currently the I-AA playoffs well ahead of time, the Times reported.

Whether the measures will pass, and precisely what their impact on the college football landscape will be if they do, remains unclear. But it takes little imagination to envision the three potential outcomes for the Crimson and the Ivy League (listed below in order of increasing likelihood) if Division I-AA as we know it disappears........
Harvard Crimson (http://www.thecrimson.com/today/article507440.html)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

McGinn seems to think the best bet is:


[W]hile most former Division I-AA schools rejoice at the prospect of dropping that derogatory second ‘A,’ the Ivy League shrinks from becoming a full-fledged Division I-A football program, even if the change is only nominal. Rather than weather the pressure to participate in playoffs or upgrade its facilities, the Ancient Eight uses the policy change as an opportunity to again pledge its commitment to amateur athletics.

To that end, Harvard, Yale, and company agree to abandon Division I football and enlist in Division III, as many pundits have long speculated they are eager to do. Amherst and Williams replace Lehigh and Northeastern on the Crimson’s schedule each year.


I don't know what sort of chance this has of happening. But one thing is clear (and I know it's not the focus of the article). The Patriot League really could be the linchpin here.

Right now, the Patriot League is the bridge between competing in "amateur" (as defined by the Ivy presidents) athletics and I-AA-level scholarship athletics in the form of Delaware, Sam Houston St., Montana, etc. But increasingly, where the Patriot league "tilts" may determine where the Ivies go.

Will the Patriot League "tilt" towards playing more CAA/A-10 teams, like Delaware, Northeastern, Towson? Will the Patriot League get all its teams over the magic 56.5 equivalencies to be able to schedule more I-A (I'm sorry, "I-A Bowl division") opponents? If the Patriot League tilts too far in that direction, the Ivies may just decide that there are too few Division I teams that they can/want to play, and decide instead that pounding on Amherst, Williams and Gettysburg is a better deal.

Strangely, the Ivy and Patriot are not very different in football talent. The past 2 years Penn (in 2003) and Harvard (2004) could have made a real run in the playoffs. I'm not sure if Penn was better than Colgate in 2003 (that would have been a real interesting game), but Harvard beat Lafayette in 2004, and probably would have beaten Lehigh too.

It's too bad that the Ivy presidents have no respect for their own football programs. They resent the fact that it's so popular and makes so much money for their schools. All I can say is, all those potential athletes are more than welcome in the Patriot League, where academics and playoffs coexist peacefully.

[TexasTerror]

That was a great article. Thanks for sharing. I really hope the Ivies decide to allow for playoffs. I think if they don't for another decade, they will start to hurt and may have to drop down to Div III as the difference between the Ivies and others who are supposed to be on the same level increases.

[Husky Alum]

They're not going to let the Ivies play in the playoffs. Heck, they won't let them play 11 games.

And as for the "no athletic scholarship thing" when I was recruited by several Ivies in high school, my family's average net cash payment to the schools was about $2,000 - as long as I played football. When I tore up my knee before graduating from High School, the "financial aid package" I was given disappeared.

No athletic scholarships my ass.

I wound up going to NU where I got zero financial aid, so don't give me this grant in aid crap.

I wish the Ivies would go back to playing real D-1 football. As a kid growing up in New Haven, I distinctly remember the 1981 Yale team with Rich Diana - that was a GREAT Yale team that may even have been ranked in the Top 25 for a bit. That Yale team consistently played to over 35,000 a game in the Yale Bowl, and beat Navy in New Haven, and the 1980 team beat Air Force at home. Going to those games as a kid was simply electric. We'd volunteer to be ushers, and we'd get into the games free, and would make money on tips, it was the BEST experience. I don't know if I was 11-12 and living in New Haven if I'd do it now.

[bulldog10jw]

I wish the Ivies would go back to playing real D-1 football. As a kid growing up in New Haven, I distinctly remember the 1981 Yale team with Rich Diana - that was a GREAT Yale team that may even have been ranked in the Top 25 for a bit. That Yale team consistently played to over 35,000 a game in the Yale Bowl, and beat Navy in New Haven, and the 1980 team beat Air Force at home. Going to those games as a kid was simply electric. We'd volunteer to be ushers, and we'd get into the games free, and would make money on tips, it was the BEST experience. I don't know if I was 11-12 and living in New Haven if I'd do it now.

I go back a little further than you. I remember the Brian Dowling-Calvin Hill era of 1967 and 1968 when the lowest crowds (for Brown or Columbia) would be 30,000 and Dartmouth, Princeton, and Harvard would all draw about 60,000 to the Bowl. But even then there was no variety in the OOC games. There were 9 games and one was UConn who was not a threat to Yale yet and the other OOC game was usually Colgate who was up and down in those days. In fact from 1967 to 1975 Yales schedule was exactly the same every year. Finally in '76 they started playing Lehigh, Miami of Ohio, Rutgers, Air Force, Army, Navy, Holy Cross, Bill and Mary, etc. Unfortunately Yale football started to decline in '82 and except for the occasional Harvard games the crowds went away also.

[Husky Alum]

Any chance you were at the infamous Yale-Harvard game in 1987 when it must have been 20 below with the wind chill, and Stanley Edwards cost Yale the Ivy League title on a clip when Jim Parsons intercepted Harvard late in the game and ran it back for a TD that was nullified??

Amazing game, but I froze my ass off. Irony of all ironies was that Edwards and Parsons both were local kids with Edwards playing at Notre Dame in West Haven and Parsons was a teammate of mine at Foran in Milford.

[bulldog10jw]

Any chance you were at the infamous Yale-Harvard game in 1987 when it must have been 20 below with the wind chill, and Stanley Edwards cost Yale the Ivy League title on a clip when Jim Parsons intercepted Harvard late in the game and ran it back for a TD that was nullified??

Amazing game, but I froze my ass off. Irony of all ironies was that Edwards and Parsons both were local kids with Edwards playing at Notre Dame in West Haven and Parsons was a teammate of mine at Foran in Milford.


Yes I was at the game. Coldest I've ever been at a game. Yale still had a chance and Kelly Ryan had pulled out so many games that when they were driving at the end I thought it was fate that they would win. I think it was Troy Jenkins who fumbled in the open field fairly deep in Harvard territory in the last minute to finally seal the deal.

Funny, I'm from Milford also. In fact, one of my best friends and neighbors growing up was Ken Walker, later football and baseball coach at Foran. I was Milford High School class of '69.

[DFW HOYA]

Will the Patriot League "tilt" towards playing more CAA/A-10 teams, like Delaware, Northeastern, Towson? Will the Patriot League get all its teams over the magic 56.5 equivalencies to be able to schedule more I-A (I'm sorry, "I-A Bowl division") opponents?

I think six of the seven teams are within distance of 56.5 already.

[colgate13]

I think six of the seven teams are within distance of 56.5 already.

We're there.

I seriously doubt Ivys will ever go D-III. They are too competitive in other D-I sports (hockey, lax, soccer, etc.) and you can't be one thing in football and something else for everything else. Not to mention the old crusties would be up in arms if they went D-III.

[bonarae]

D-III in football? And D-I in other sports? Not allowed.

Each and every year the NCAA puts EVERY new rule that is anti-Ivy. :eek: :mad:

I am REALLY getting sick of the ignorance of the Presidents on football and basketball. That's all.

[bonarae]

:confused: :confused: Huh?? :confused: :confused:

Hmmm... can you think of a rule like proposed schedule changes that bring the Ivies farther down the road? (I mean they are still too old-fashioned)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Ivies in general are clinging to a quaint old-fashioned view about what amateur athletics is and the role of amateur athletics in private universities. They rightfully have seen schools like Auburn and University of Miami (Fl) perverse the idea of student-athlete. But their solution is to stubbornly stick to their "principles".

Their "principles", however, are completely arbitrary and hypocritical. Let all our Olympic sport teams and basketball play in the playoffs, but not football. Let all other schools play 11 games, but we're going to play 10. Let our schedule start the 3rd week in September, but everyone else starts the 1st week. Let other coaching staves have X number of paid assistants, but we're going to cut down to X-3.

The Ivy presidents need to realize that times change, and that having a good football team and a good university doesn't need to be mutually exclusive.

[Tribe4SF]

It's always seemed to me that hypocricy is an enduring feature of Ivy League life. With the A-10 and Patriot League providing two alternative examples in their own back yard, their decision making can only be viewed as anti-football. From their antiquated perspective, they somehow see football as threatening their integrity.

This integrity would appear to be newfound. When Dartmouth recruited me in 1966, part of my "financial aid" package was a job which would pay me about 1/3 of the cost. The duties were unspecified, but players there assured me it would not be strenuous. When I decided to sign with W&M, Bob Blackmon (think I have that right) called and told me I was making the biggest mistake of my life. Any doubts I had about my decision disappeared with that phone call.

[bonarae]

The Presidents are too outdated on athletics. They know the Ivy League is famous for academics only. :( They have to be updated on athletics... :mad:

[colgate13]

It's always seemed to me that hypocricy is an enduring feature of Ivy League life. With the A-10 and Patriot League providing two alternative examples in their own back yard, their decision making can only be viewed as anti-football.

When you hear about the Dartmouth admission dean's attitude towards football, you can only come to that conclusion. It's scary.

BTW, I had a similar experience during recruitment with a different Ivy that tried to convince me to weasel out of my committment to Colgate. Amazing that things don't change decades later!

[arkstfan]

If you want the Ivy to join the playoffs all you need is one tiny rule change.

Here is the current rule
18.5.1 Men’s Basketball Eligibility Requirements. For automatic qualification in the sport of men’s basketball in Division I, a conference shall meet the following additional requirements:
(a) It shall determine a conference champion in at least six men’s sports [at least two of which must be team sports as set forth in Bylaw 31.3.4-(a)]; and in each of these six sports, at least six of the conference’s member institutions shall sponsor the sport on the varsity intercollegiate level; and
(b) It shall conduct double round-robin, in-season conference competition, or a minimum of 14 conference games, before declaring its champion in basketball.

Just add a c
(c) The failure of an institution to make any team in any sport sponsored by the institution available for consideration for automatic qualification in any NCAA sponsored championship shall result in the institution being ineligible to obtain automatic qualification in the sport of men's basketball.

Cut off the money and see how long the tradition holds.

[Ivytalk]

The Ivies will probably stand pat, as usual.

Gee, it's good to be back! Kudos to all who developed the new, improved site! And thumbs down to the Jerkov who made it necessary!