Can you be called for late hit if the play hasn't been whistled dead?

[SeattleGriz]

Watching some football on Sunday, and I saw a penalty in which the defensive lineman was standing next to the pile and he was hit by an offensive lineman. The olineman got called for a late hit penalty. I always thought that was why you heard announcers say, "you gotta keep your head on a swivel."

When I rewound it, you could clearly hear that the play had not been blown dead yet.

I realize play happens fast, but can someone be called for a late hit if the play has been whistled dead?

[phoenixphanatic21]

Obviously, they can. Should they be called for it? IMO, no, unless it's real obvious the play should be over and the refs are for whatever reason taking their sweet old time blowing the whistle.

[grizband]

Obviously, they can. Should they be called for it? IMO, no, unless it's real obvious the play should be over and the refs are for whatever reason taking their sweet old time blowing the whistle.
I have always been taught the action determines the end of the play, not the whistle - the whistle is only confirmation.

[GannonFan]

If the ref wants to throw a flag on it, he can. Sometimes refs will talk the play over rather than whistling it too, and whistles sometimes don't work well.

[andy7171]

It really depends on the mood of the ref and whether or not they are looking. a team mate from the class ahead of me used to take the risk of getting flagged just to laugh during film review.
Fellow AGS'er UncleBuck fell victim to him his sophomore year (I think, it was my Junior).

[phoenixphanatic21]

I have always been taught the action determines the end of the play, not the whistle - the whistle is only confirmation.

I've always been taught play til the whistle blows. But again, players should be able to use some common sense and be able to determine when a play is over regardless of a whistle blowing. I just think that football may be starting to get a lil overprotective of its players. I just understand why, but it seems to be taking a lil bit of football away from the game.

[chantster]

Yeah, hit a player that is clearly out of bounds before the ref blows the whistle. That will get you a flag and 15.

[grizband]

I've always been taught play til the whistle blows. But again, players should be able to use some common sense and be able to determine when a play is over regardless of a whistle blowing. I just think that football may be starting to get a lil overprotective of its players. I just understand why, but it seems to be taking a lil bit of football away from the game.
I should have better qualified my statement. As a player I was taught to play through the whistle; as a ref, I've been taught otherwise.

[clenz]

It could be called a late hit OR unnecessary roughness. From the sound of it, either one would have been appropriate there.

[phoenixphanatic21]

I should have better qualified my statement. As a player I was taught to play through the whistle; as a ref, I've been taught otherwise.

Ahh ok that makes sense then. Well I think I shall trust you then in this situation.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

This is why I HATE the new whistle rule this year. They need to blow the play dead when it's dead. Screw the 2 times a year that it would save a problem from an inadvertent whistle, let the other 99.99999% of the plays be blown dead when they should be. xtwocentsx xtwocentsx

[JohnStOnge]

I have always been taught the action determines the end of the play, not the whistle - the whistle is only confirmation.

I know that is correct because of the big discussion we had after the 2002Villanova at McNeese semifinal. There was a play where McNeese's quarterback fumbled and it was going to be returned for a TD by Villanova. The refs ruled that the McNeese quarterback's forward progress had been stopped before the fumble and therefore the ball was dead before the fumble. One of the TV announcers kept making a big deal of the fact that the whistle wasn't blown until after the guy who got the fumble was running downfield. But that was actually irrelevant to the question. The only question was whether or not the ball carrier's forward progess had been stopped ...or actually whether there was even a question as to whether it had been stopped or not because the rule says that if there's a question the ball is dead...before the fumble. When the whistle blew was immaterial.

I looked up the NCAA rules on it back then and again just now. Notice that the whistle doesn't have to blow at all. It starts off by saying that the ball is dead and the official show blow the whistle OR declare it dead when certain things happen. Here it is:

ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:

a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds, or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).

b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his body, except his hand or foot. (Exception: The ball remains alive when an offensive player has simulated a kick or is in position to kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked, passed or
advanced by rule) (A.R. 4-1-3-I).

c. When a touchdown, touchback, safety, field goal or successful try
occurs; when Team A completes an illegal forward pass in Team B’s end
zone; when Team A completes a forward pass to an ineligible player in
Team B’s end zone; or when an unsuccessful field-goal attempt that has
crossed the neutral zone and is then untouched by Team B, lands in Team
B’s end zone or out of bounds (A.R. 6-3-9-I).

d. When, during a try, a dead-ball rule applies (Rule 8-3-2-d-5).

e. When a player of the kicking team catches or recovers any free kick or
a scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone (A.R. 4-1-3-II).

f. When a free kick, scrimmage kick or any other loose ball comes to rest
and no player attempts to secure it.

g. When a free kick or scrimmage kick (beyond the neutral zone) is caught
or recovered by any player after a valid or invalid fair-catch signal; or
when an invalid fair-catch signal is made after a catch or recovery by
Team B (Rules 2-7-1, 2-7-2 and 2-7-3).

h. When a return kick or scrimmage kick beyond the neutral zone is
made.

i. When a forward pass strikes the ground.

j. When, on fourth down before a change of team possession, a Team A
fumble is caught or recovered by a Team A player other than the fumbler
(Rules 7-2-2-a and b).

k. When a live ball not in player possession touches anything inbounds
other than a player, a player’s equipment, an official, an official’s equipment or the ground (inadvertent-whistle provisions apply).
l. When a simultaneous catch or recovery of a live ball occurs.
m. When the ball becomes illegal while in play (inadvertent-whistle
provisions apply).

n. When the live ball is in possession of an official.

o. When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.

p. When an airborne pass receiver from either team is so held and
subsequently carried that he is prevented from immediately returning to
the ground (A.R. 7-3-6-IV).

q. When a ball carrier’s helmet comes completely off. The ball belongs to
the ball carrier’s team at that spot.

[Uncle Buck]

It really depends on the mood of the ref and whether or not they are looking. a team mate from the class ahead of me used to take the risk of getting flagged just to laugh during film review.
Fellow AGS'er UncleBuck fell victim to him his sophomore year (I think, it was my Junior).

I think anyone who has ever strapped the pads on was probably on the receiving end of a snot bubble. I don't remember the Towson one, but it did put one on one of your OLB's when they had me run at fullback.

Best one ever though, the TE from Buffalo blindsided me twice on one play! Blindside snot bubble while i was chasing from the backside, after he knocked me down, i'm 30 yards from the play and he loops behind me and jacked me up again. I wasn't laughing then, but we all busted a gut in films on Sunday.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

q. When a ball carrier’s helmet comes completely off. The ball belongs to
the ball carrier’s team at that spot.[/B]

That is an interesting rule, one I didn't know about. That one could go either way, but good to know.

[andy7171]

I think anyone who has ever strapped the pads on was probably on the receiving end of a snot bubble. I don't remember the Towson one, but it did put one on one of your OLB's when they had me run at fullback.

Best one ever though, the TE from Buffalo blindsided me twice on one play! Blindside snot bubble while i was chasing from the backside, after he knocked me down, i'm 30 yards from the play and he loops behind me and jacked me up again. I wasn't laughing then, but we all busted a gut in films on Sunday.

I got head planted three times up at Maine chasing interceptions in the first quater. The next FOUR, I "contained". xlolx xlolx xlolx

[JayJ79]

That is an interesting rule, one I didn't know about. That one could go either way, but good to know.

Makes sense. You don't want someone taking a hit to the head while NOT wearing a helmet. (At least when everyone else is wearing a helmet and pads).

Of course, many times this situation is caused by people not fully buckling their chinstraps and such. (not ALL the time, but often...)

[ngineer]

I have seen such penalties called if the action is obviously over, or where the violator is so far away from the action that any hitting would be excessive. Technically, I guess you could say until the whistle blows everyone is still 'live', but we all know that there are times like an 'inadvertent whistle' where we have 'inadvertent non-whistles'. But it should be a blatant hit and not some minor bumping.

[T-Dawg95]

Watching some football on Sunday, and I saw a penalty in which the defensive lineman was standing next to the pile and he was hit by an offensive lineman. The olineman got called for a late hit penalty. I always thought that was why you heard announcers say, "you gotta keep your head on a swivel."

When I rewound it, you could clearly hear that the play had not been blown dead yet.

I realize play happens fast, but can someone be called for a late hit if the play has been whistled dead?

Usually defensive players are the ones who need to be concerned about activity around the pile. The typical culprits of activities such as those described above are often offensive linemen, no matter the reason. Sometimes they are honestly still blocking for their running backs, other times their trying to cheap shot. Be that as it may, its up to the defensive player to avoid any cheap shot coming your way. You need to understand that if you're standing around the pile, you're liable to get hit.

I was a member of the favorite targets of these hits, a defensive linemen. Offensive linemen love to hit the guys they have to deal with in the trenches in the back when their not looking. Most of the time, you know who the people are that like to do such things, and you often return the favor someway.The reasons, as I said above, are as varied as people that play the sport. However, its up to the referees to prevent such activities from getting out of hand and endangering a player's safety. There is a fine line between playing hard and playing dirty. Its up to the refs to define where that line is and enforce it accordingly.