Holy Cross Great Years

[UNHFan]

OK I went off on a...... well drunken... what ever.... my point started Ricky Santos ended onona Holy Crocc rant so here it is!!

lol

Wow you know your ball!! Jeff Wiley (Holy Cross),

He is we can all take out our text books books out remember he finished 7th in the Heismen Trophy Oh wait?? I was talking 85 oh yeah 6th in 86

I was blessed to go to every HC home game from 84 to 92 I remember 25K was the norm on a saturday HC's golden years wow!! Even ESPN knew it.. ESPN in those days had the IVY Game of the week... and if any of you remember.. it was whatever Ivy team was playing HC from 86 to 91 HC made it to National coverage many times. I remember the HC Princeton Game at HC had 26000 when it was on TV. Meaning 26000 people in the Worcester area went to the game when it was on ESPN . dont get me started on why it all changed!!! Not the no scolarships crap as some say!! It was an absolute smack in the face when HC wasnt allowed to play in post season in these power house years!! HC would have walked all over the country with these teams. Duffner figured it out and went to Maryland and I have sady watched a power house g o to ****. Kills me to see7-8K at an HC game... Listening to our Father saying We Are Not A football School....still rings in my ears today. Thus led too attendance that is now -15 to20K less yeas folks!!! in those years 25K on the high end no less then 17K on the low and if anyone ****s about this you slept through those years.

[KAUMASS]

Had the pleasure of playing against HC in '85,'86 & '87. Some powerful teams, they could of played with anybody in the country.

[Franks Tanks]

Here we go again.

[UNHFootballAlum]

Had the pleasure of playing against HC in '85,'86 & '87. Some powerful teams, they could of played with anybody in the country.


I also played against them 81-84. They had some great teams

[ngineer]

Keep in mind that HC was playing with a handfull of aces, scholarship players, whereas the rest of the, then, Colonial League were non (Bucknell, Davidson, Lehigh, Lafayette and Colgate..) Some of the scores were so lopsided it was ridiculous. Once the scholarships ended, reality bit. That simple. Yes, the school decided on a change in philosophy when it joined the Colonial, now,Patriot League.

[Cobblestone]

I still recall when they used to play vs. BC every year.

I also remember playing at Fitton Field. HC drew pretty good back then.

BTW, wasn't there a Holy Cross head coach who committed suicide about 10 years or so ago?

[DFW HOYA]

Once the scholarships ended, reality bit. That simple. Yes, the school decided on a change in philosophy when it joined the Colonial, now,Patriot League.

Take Rev. Brooks out of the equation--if you had to make the decisions for Holy Cross in the 1980's, would you have done the same?

Years ago, I came across a clearly disgruntled HC fan at Kehoe Field who muttered, "Ten years ago we were playing BC and Army, and now I'm standing here at...Georgetown."

[CrusaderBob]

Time for a minor reality check.

There is NO WAY HC was drawing 25K on average ever. The stadium was renovated prior to the '86 season and capacity was INCREASED to 23,500.

The only time they sold out in those years was against BC. They may have averaged 15-17K in those mid 80's to early 90's seasons, but football has not had a sell out since the final BC game in 1986.

And yes, Rick Carter, the coach for the 1981 - 1985 seasons, committed suicied in January 1986. A very sad story.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Take Rev. Brooks out of the equation--if you had to make the decisions for Holy Cross in the 1980's, would you have done the same?

Years ago, I came across a clearly disgruntled HC fan at Kehoe Field who muttered, "Ten years ago we were playing BC and Army, and now I'm standing here at...Georgetown."

Fr. Brooks' idea for not wanting to get in an athletics arms race with Boston College actually makes some sense. Holy Cross was (and is) a small private school with limited facilities for athletics, while Boston College at that time was making a commitment to big-time Big East sports. They were getting the cash and expanding the athletics department accordingly. Holy Cross no way no how could have kept up.

Where Fr. Brooks went wrong (and I understand this is with 20/20 hindsight) is going completely dogmatic with it - believing the "we don't have scholarships" Ivy League myth and setting up the Patriot League accordingly.

Richmond has now become a living testimonial to marrying scholarship athletics and high-academic private school credentials. While admitting that it is hindsight, it is the inability of Fr. Brooks and the other Patriot League presidents to see that completely is why the Patriot League is playing catch-up while (in football) Richmond and (in basketball) Davidson is light-years ahead of the PL in the two big revenue sports.

[BloomHusky'01]

My dad took me to see HC at Bucknell circa '86 or '87 because we had heard all about Gordy Lockbaum. Being the NCAA football enthusiasts that we are, we really wanted to see him play. It was well worth it. I was only about 8 years old, but if I recall correctly he had a punt return TD and Interception return TD. he is still one the best players I've ever seen in person.

[CrusaderBob]

What LFN said.

The issue was not joining like minded schools, but giving up scholarships. Seems though with the schools we were joining - Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Davidson - all being non-scholarship, HC giving up scholarships was the way to make the league it work.

In fact, and this is pure conjecture on my part, perhaps that is the only way it was going to work, because I don't know if the other schools would have made the commitment to the PL - or at least a PL with HC (and initially William & Mary) in - if upgrading to scholarships were required. Ironic now that several of them are the ones pushing for scholarships.

And with respect to the hard times, I submit that the reason things got tough is that the coaches we hired (Vaas & then Allen) were used to scholarship recruiting and so had difficulty making the pitch to players and families on need based aid only. When Gilmore - a guy with nothing but Ivy & PL experience - was hired, that changed. Some due to additional support from the college, but quite a bit because of his familiarity with the ways of recruiting in a non-scholarship environment.

[Go...gate]

Still maintain that 1987 Holy Cross ranks with the very best I-AA squads EVER and may, in fact, be the best ever. A complete club in every respect.

[YaleFootballFan]

Still maintain that 1987 Holy Cross ranks with the very best I-AA squads EVER and may, in fact, be the best ever. A complete club in every respect.

The '87 Holy Cross team destroyed Ivy Champion Harvard 41-6 in Week 8 that season.

The Crusaders had won something like 25 in row against Ivy opponents between 1985-91. I recall Yale breaking that streak in 1992.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The '87 Cross seem might very well be the best FCS team ever. It's atleast top 5. Lafayette's '88 and Lehigh's '91 teams were also darn good and could have made a long run in the playoffs had they been eligible. Lehigh beat Uconn and W&M in '91 and lost to Colgate and HC by a combined 2 points. Lafayette in '88 was the only team to beat HC during the first 5 years of league play i believe.

[Old Cat Fan]

Still maintain that 1987 Holy Cross ranks with the very best I-AA squads EVER and may, in fact, be the best ever. A complete club in every respect.

Here is the 87 schedule results not only were they undefeated they destroyed their opps. Also to note they beat Army, UMass, Nova and William&Mary not a cupcake schedule , xthumbsupx

1987 (11-0, 4-0 PL)
PATRIOT LEAGUE CHAMPIONS
Coach: Mark Duffner
Capt: Ron George, Jim Kelly,
Gordie Lockbaum, Andy Martin
9/12 Army A W, 34-24
9/19 Lafayette * H W, 40-11
9/26 Lehigh * A W, 63-6
10/3 Colgate (hc) * H W, 49-7
10/10 Dartmouth A W, 62-23
10/17 Bucknell * A W, 48-10
10/24 Brown (fw) H W, 41-0
10/31 Massachusetts A W, 54-10
11/7 Harvard H W, 41-6
11/14 William & Mary H W, 40-7
11/19 Villanova A W, 39-6

[crusader11]

Realistically, we will not get to that level again, but the direction Coach Gilmore had us headed in, and with Dom Randolph coming back for another year, I can honestly see us only losing 1 or 2 games next year.

I say this because of 3 things:

1) UMASS is off the schedule, and while they had a down year last year, they were still a quality team. They have been replaced with Northeastern, which should be a win, although they showed flashes of being a decent football team last year.

2) Yale dropped us from the schedule (we have always struggled with beating Yale) and we have not picked up an 11th game yet. I could envision us playing a Pioneer team (for you Flyer), or an NEC team, which should be a win again.

3) 2 of the best teams in the league, in my opinion, are coming to Worcester next year (Colgate and Lafayette), so that certainly helps.

The games that could be losses next year are Harvard, @ Lehigh, Colgate, and Lafayette. I guess you could make the case that about 8 of our games "could" be losses, but then you could make the case that none of them will be losses. I am sure we will slip up somewhere along the way, but with Gilmore officially coming back after dropping out of contention for the Yale job, and Dom Randolph being granted a 5th year, it really is not unrealistic to say that we won't lose a game. Again, this is the homer side of me coming out, but it is definitely possible, and I think some PL guys would agree with me.

[Franks Tanks]

Realistically, we will not get to that level again, but the direction Coach Gilmore had us headed in, and with Dom Randolph coming back for another year, I can honestly see us only losing 1 or 2 games next year.

I say this because of 3 things:

1) UMASS is off the schedule, and while they had a down year last year, they were still a quality team. They have been replaced with Northeastern, which should be a win, although they showed flashes of being a decent football team last year.

2) Yale dropped us from the schedule (we have always struggled with beating Yale) and we have not picked up an 11th game yet. I could envision us playing a Pioneer team (for you Flyer), or an NEC team, which should be a win again.

3) 2 of the best teams in the league, in my opinion, are coming to Worcester next year (Colgate and Lafayette), so that certainly helps.

The games that could be losses next year are Harvard, @ Lehigh, Colgate, and Lafayette. I guess you could make the case that about 8 of our games "could" be losses, but then you could make the case that none of them will be losses. I am sure we will slip up somewhere along the way, but with Gilmore officially coming back after dropping out of contention for the Yale job, and Dom Randolph being granted a 5th year, it really is not unrealistic to say that we won't lose a game. Again, this is the homer side of me coming out, but it is definitely possible, and I think some PL guys would agree with me.

I think Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, and Holy Cross all have the talent to contend for the league title next year. Really any of those teams can catch fire and win the league. However, I do agree with you -- with Randolph back if I had to pick a favorite right now I would pick Holy Cross.