Patriot League - Week 12

[carney2]

November 15

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH
12:30 PM

HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE
1:00 PM

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
1:00 PM

COLGATE - Bye

[ngineer]

Man after today's fiasco I can't handle this right now...xflamemadx xpissedx xsplatx xrotatehx xbawlingx

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown will have a tough task at Fordham. The Rams have won 12 of the last 13 in this series, and have not lost at home to the G-men since 1975.

Georgetown is averaging 10.7 points per game in 2008--if you take out the Bucknell game where Georgetown always tends to do much better, it's only 9 points a game. It's hard to win a lot of low scoring games.

[LehighFan11]

Lehigh by 7
Holy Cross by 10
Fordham by 3 (I almost picked Gtown here, Fordham is sad)
Colgate with 600 yards rushing vs. Bye

[letsgopards04]

November 15

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH
12:30 PM

HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE
1:00 PM

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
1:00 PM

COLGATE - Bye

[carney2]

November 15

BUCKNELL @ LEHIGH
12:30 PM

HOLY CROSS @ LAFAYETTE
1:00 PM

GEORGETOWN @ FORDHAM
1:00 PM

COLGATE - Bye

What he said. It's a good week for homers.

[DSUrocks07]

What he said. It's a good week for homers.

looks like bye is the home team for Colgate xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh by 7
Holy Cross by 10
Fordham by 3 (I almost picked Gtown here, Fordham is sad)
Colgate with 600 yards rushing vs. Bye

Have you picked Lafayette to win a game all year.? I dont know why but Lafayette always plays Holy Cross very well. We are 6-2 vs. The Cross since 2000, and beat them last year when few people though we would.

[crusader11]

Have you picked Lafayette to win a game all year.? I dont know why but Lafayette always plays Holy Cross very well. We are 6-2 vs. The Cross since 2000, and beat them last year when few people though we would.

I got HC by 14...

[Franks Tanks]

I got HC by 14...

Ya ok. Just like you were supossed to win last year, and we came up to Worchester and defeated the mighty Crusaders. If you do win however I am sure your message board will be buzzing about joining the Big East again.

[crusader11]

Ya ok. Just like you were supossed to win last year, and we came up to Worchester and defeated the mighty Crusaders. If you do win however I am sure your message board will be buzzing about joining the Big East again.


Please come join the discussion xlolx . In all seriousness though, I just don't see any team in the PL this year slowing down the HC offense. Dom Randolph and some of the receivers are really just playing at another level. Also, with the defense really beginning to tighten up and Lafayette and Colgate being primarily running teams (HC has the best run defense in the league) HC is destined to finally win the PLC. They have been so close the past 2 seasons, and, at the end of the day, the best QB in the league will have his way with inferior defenses. Granted, I know Tanks, Lafayette has a very, very impressive defense, but I see our O being better than your D. Also, with the injuries Lafayette has on offense as of late, I think our defense will be able to contain Lafayette.

34-20 HC

[hc12]

Ya ok. Just like you were supossed to win last year, and we came up to Worchester and defeated the mighty Crusaders. If you do win however I am sure your message board will be buzzing about joining the Big East again.

NO THE SEC

[LeopardFan04]

Leopards
Mountain Hawks
Hoyas

[LehighFan11]

Have you picked Lafayette to win a game all year.? I dont know why but Lafayette always plays Holy Cross very well. We are 6-2 vs. The Cross since 2000, and beat them last year when few people though we would.
Last week.

[Franks Tanks]

Please come join the discussion xlolx . In all seriousness though, I just don't see any team in the PL this year slowing down the HC offense. Dom Randolph and some of the receivers are really just playing at another level. Also, with the defense really beginning to tighten up and Lafayette and Colgate being primarily running teams (HC has the best run defense in the league) HC is destined to finally win the PLC. They have been so close the past 2 seasons, and, at the end of the day, the best QB in the league will have his way with inferior defenses. Granted, I know Tanks, Lafayette has a very, very impressive defense, but I see our O being better than your D. Also, with the injuries Lafayette has on offense as of late, I think our defense will be able to contain Lafayette.

34-20 HC

You make some good points--just trying to stir the pot a bit. You may be right but our DC John Loose just seems to be able to slow the HC attack more then others. It will be a very good game.

[ngineer]

Lehigh over Bucknell 38-21

Lafayette over Holy Cross 27-24

Georgetown over Fordham 13-10

[carney2]

our DC John Loose just seems to be able to slow the HC attack more then others. It will be a very good game.

I don't want to appear to be taking the other side here, but Lafayette Defensive Coordinator John Loose and his charges are "only" batting .500 against Air Randolph. He/they controlled Randolph & Co. very nicely in 2007, but, honestly, did not have a clue in 2006. This is the rubber match and, as you say, it should be a heluva game.

[Go...gate]

Please come join the discussion xlolx . In all seriousness though, I just don't see any team in the PL this year slowing down the HC offense. Dom Randolph and some of the receivers are really just playing at another level. Also, with the defense really beginning to tighten up and Lafayette and Colgate being primarily running teams (HC has the best run defense in the league) HC is destined to finally win the PLC. They have been so close the past 2 seasons, and, at the end of the day, the best QB in the league will have his way with inferior defenses. Granted, I know Tanks, Lafayette has a very, very impressive defense, but I see our O being better than your D. Also, with the injuries Lafayette has on offense as of late, I think our defense will be able to contain Lafayette.

34-20 HC

IMO, Randolph is the best PL QB since Frank Baur in 1988 for Lafayette. He is better than Jeff Wiley, who was a great QB at Cross but who had a stronger supporting cast.

[Go...gate]

Anybody have a scouting report on Bye this year? How did they do against Open Date? Idle? Postponed?

[LehighFan11]

Anybody have a scouting report on Bye this year? How did they do against Open Date? Idle? Postponed?
I hear they have a good offense, might be another long day on D for the gate.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

IMO, Randolph is the best PL QB since Frank Baur in 1988 for Lafayette. He is better than Jeff Wiley, who was a great QB at Cross but who had a stronger supporting cast.

I think both Stambaugh and Vena were better than Randolph IMO. Both had the ability to raise their play and lead their teams in big situations. Randolph has never really done that.

[hvsader]

... in big situations. Randolph has never really done that.

Well, not sure how big you mean. But among others, he was pretty big going 90 yds in the last 50 secs with no timeouts vs Yale to tie the game...

[ngineer]

Anybody have a scouting report on Bye this year? How did they do against Open Date? Idle? Postponed?

Sell....

[IaaScribe]

Patriot League folks: What happens in terms of the league's auto bid if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and Holy Cross then beats Colgate, leaving the standings at:

Holy Cross 5-1
Lafayette 5-1
Colgate 4-1

Does Colgate get credit for the Georgetown game in some fashion? What's the three-way tiebreaker when everyone is 1-1 against each other?

[Franks Tanks]

NO THE SEC

You act like I am making this up-- below is a recent post from the Cross Sports Board---

"In the end, the problem with the crowds may be too baked into the cake to ever rectify. As noted, 1-AA just doesn't get great crowds, even for the best of teams at this level. And earlier, when I was talking about football quality, I am in no way referring to HC's ability, because I was there when we were 11-0 and the crowds were pathetic back then too. Its a continual shame that HC never tried to take on a challenge and be the Vanderbilt-esque school of the Big East; the school that would be the perpetual underdog, but a school that would be applauded for trying to reach for the stars, and taking on even the longest of odds. I logged a lot of time in Jesuit classrooms (8 yrs to be exact) and one prevailing theme throughout was the notion of testing yourself, maximizing God-given gifts, and living with high expectations on yourself because much had been given to you. But back when, those ideals did not transfer over to athletics, or so it seems. Something tells me that a healthy slate of Big East games and maybe the return of the BCs, and maybe even a Notre Dame here and there, would turn Fitton Field into a true place to be, and maybe even bring the football team a lot closer to breaking even, if not turning a profit. What a wonderful sight that would all be.

But this certainly will not be the case..."

I will be waiting for those Holy Cross - Notre Dame games at Fitton Field after you join the BE.

[crusader11]

You act like I am making this up-- below is a recent post from the Cross Sports Board---

"In the end, the problem with the crowds may be too baked into the cake to ever rectify. As noted, 1-AA just doesn't get great crowds, even for the best of teams at this level. And earlier, when I was talking about football quality, I am in no way referring to HC's ability, because I was there when we were 11-0 and the crowds were pathetic back then too. Its a continual shame that HC never tried to take on a challenge and be the Vanderbilt-esque school of the Big East; the school that would be the perpetual underdog, but a school that would be applauded for trying to reach for the stars, and taking on even the longest of odds. I logged a lot of time in Jesuit classrooms (8 yrs to be exact) and one prevailing theme throughout was the notion of testing yourself, maximizing God-given gifts, and living with high expectations on yourself because much had been given to you. But back when, those ideals did not transfer over to athletics, or so it seems. Something tells me that a healthy slate of Big East games and maybe the return of the BCs, and maybe even a Notre Dame here and there, would turn Fitton Field into a true place to be, and maybe even bring the football team a lot closer to breaking even, if not turning a profit. What a wonderful sight that would all be.

But this certainly will not be the case..."

I will be waiting for those Holy Cross - Notre Dame games at Fitton Field after you join the BE.

That was one idiotic poster. Everyone on the board realizes that the BE was something that could have been, but not anymore. Many posters would love, if possible, to join the A-10, or CAA. Me, personally, however, believe that the PL is the absolute perfect place for HC athletics. It provides the perfect mixture between very competitive D1 athletics, as well as a top flight education. I would be worried that a move to another conference could potentially bring down the academic reputation by admitting athletes who really do not belong at the school.

[LeopardFan04]

Patriot League folks: What happens in terms of the league's auto bid if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and Holy Cross then beats Colgate, leaving the standings at:

Holy Cross 5-1
Lafayette 5-1
Colgate 4-1

Does Colgate get credit for the Georgetown game in some fashion? What's the three-way tiebreaker when everyone is 1-1 against each other?


The standings will be based on how many losses a team has, so basically it's like Colgate getting a win in that respect. If they're all 1-1 against each other, with those standings, then it'll come down to a vote of the other 4 ADs based on strength of schedule, rankings, etc. If that happens, it will be messy.

[Franks Tanks]

That was one idiotic poster. Everyone on the board realizes that the BE was something that could have been, but not anymore. Many posters would love, if possible, to join the A-10, or CAA. Me, personally, however, believe that the PL is the absolute perfect place for HC athletics. It provides the perfect mixture between very competitive D1 athletics, as well as a top flight education. I would be worried that a move to another conference could potentially bring down the academic reputation by admitting athletes who really do not belong at the school.

I understand, but you have to admit that many of your HC breteren feel this way. No catholic Big East school plays FB in the Big East. Seton Hall, St. John's, Providence have no team and Nova and G-town are FCS of course. Even if the Cross did join the BE way back in the day, the FB team would still probably be in the Patriot, and I am gald to have you in the league.

[LehighFan11]

The standings will be based on how many losses a team has, so basically it's like Colgate getting a win in that respect. If they're all 1-1 against each other, with those standings, then it'll come down to a vote of the other 4 ADs based on strength of schedule, rankings, etc. If that happens, it will be messy.
Yes, VERY messy. Each team would have a strong case. Lafayette would have 3 wins in a row while Holy Cross and Colgate would of lost a game in the last 2 weeks of the season. Would Holy Cross get brownie points for how many close losses they had? Would the AD's view Colgate's game vs. Stony Brook as bad eventhough Scott didn't play? Lafayette arguablely had the best OOC win vs. Liberty, but that isn't so great anymore. My guess would be Lafayette would be the pick.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Patriot League folks: What happens in terms of the league's auto bid if Lafayette beats Holy Cross and Holy Cross then beats Colgate, leaving the standings at:

Holy Cross 5-1
Lafayette 5-1
Colgate 4-1

Does Colgate get credit for the Georgetown game in some fashion? What's the three-way tiebreaker when everyone is 1-1 against each other?

It would come down to the AD votes, and it's too early to say how they would vote. If I had a gun to my head, I'd say Holy Cross wins that vote, but much would depend on style points in those two games. If Holy Cross beats Colgate 59-10 and loses to Lafayette by a late FG, that would matter to the ADs I would think.

I will say this: if Lafayette beats Holy Cross, Lehigh will leave limbs out on the field trying to prevent Lafayette from making the playoffs. xnodx

[IaaScribe]

Appreciate the responses, guys.

[ngineer]

At this point, the tie breaker would go to Holy Cross in the voting. They're OCC losses to tough teams were extremely close, plus they have the marquee QB who can always make you dangerous in the playoffs. The AD's will approach it as 'who has the best shot of making some noise for the PL in the playoffs?' As of this date, it is Holy Cross, with LC and CU having the ability to change that perception over the next two weeks.

[CrusaderBob]

I will say this: if Lafayette beats Holy Cross, Lehigh will leave limbs out on the field trying to prevent Lafayette from making the playoffs. xnodx

I agree and that would be fun but ...


I want the WE-CAN-RUN-AND-YOU-CAN'T-STOP-US versus WE-CAN-THROW-AND-YOU-CAN'T-STOP-US, steel cage death match, loser-goes-home, winner-take-all, Patriot League Championship game in Hamilton on the 22nd.

Championships decided by scoreboard watching while teams playing in different cities and/or committee votes are not nearly as fun. Let's decide a champion on the field.

When’s the last time the PL has had one game on the final weekend decide the championship and everyone else playing for pride?

[Franks Tanks]

At this point, the tie breaker would go to Holy Cross in the voting. They're OCC losses to tough teams were extremely close, plus they have the marquee QB who can always make you dangerous in the playoffs. The AD's will approach it as 'who has the best shot of making some noise for the PL in the playoffs?' As of this date, it is Holy Cross, with LC and CU having the ability to change that perception over the next two weeks.

Why? LC will finish with a better record and a higher sagarin if the scenario plays out. The only common OOC opponent for LC and HC would be Harvard and we both lost. You are really splitting hairs if you decide by degree of losing. The best overall record and highest rating should get the auto. Thankfully chances are small this will actually happen.

[Franks Tanks]

I agree and that would be fun but ...


I want the we-can-run-and-you-can't-stop-us versus we-can-throw-and-you-can't-stop-us, steel cage death match, loser-goes-home, winner-take-all, Patriot League Championship game in Hamilton on the 22nd.

Championships decided by scoreboard watching while teams playing in different cities and/or committee votes are not nearly as fun. Let's decide a champion on the field.

When’s the last time the PL has had one game on the final weekend decide the championship and everyone else playing for pride?

I believe in 2004 the winner of Lafayette-Lehigh would be Patriot Champs and recieve the auto-bid no matter what? Lehigh ended up with an at large that year.

[LeopardFan04]

Why? LC will finish with a better record and a higher sagarin if the scenario plays out. The only common OOC opponent for LC and HC would be Harvard and we both lost. You are really splitting hairs if you decide by degree of losing. The best overall record and highest rating should get the auto. Thankfully chances are small this will actually happen.


Thankfully for who? I actually don't think it's that far fetched that LC beats HC and LU, and HC beats CU.

[Franks Tanks]

Thankfully for who? I actually don't think it's that far fetched that LC beats HC and LU, and HC beats CU.

Ok maybe bad choice of words xlolx -- we clearly need this to happen, but still a lot of variables

[CrusaderBob]

Frank,

I'm not an Obama guy, but when it comes to PL football this year, your signature says it all.

It's been too long for this league since Holy Cross has won it all. Time to listen to the President elect in this matter and we'd appreciate it this year if Lafayette and Colagte spread the wealth. It will be good for everybody in the PL! xsmiley_wix

[Franks Tanks]

Frank,

I'm not an Obama guy, but when it comes to PL football this year, your signature says it all.

It's been too long for this league since Holy Cross has won it all. Time to listen to the President elect in this matter and we'd appreciate it this year if Lafayette and Colagte spread the wealth. It will be good for everybody in the PL! xsmiley_wix

HAHA-- believe me if Lafayette doesnt win the league I really like to see someone other then Colgate or Lehigh get the nod. I though you guys had it last year, and if it wasnt at our expense I would be rooting for you this year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why? LC will finish with a better record and a higher sagarin if the scenario plays out. The only common OOC opponent for LC and HC would be Harvard and we both lost. You are really splitting hairs if you decide by degree of losing. The best overall record and highest rating should get the auto. Thankfully chances are small this will actually happen.

Shhh, don't let the folks from the "Montana deserves a seed" read this thread. :p

As of last week, four GPI points separates LC, HC, and CU - and keep in mind that Margin of Victory ranking systems are a part of that index. Lafayette would have momentum (winning three straight), but Holy Cross would have strength of schedule on their side and a QB who might play on Sundays. Common opponents you have to give to HC - they played better against Harvard than LC did.

Geez. Hopefully Lehigh wins two weeks from now and makes this a moot point. xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

Shhh, don't let the folks from the "Montana deserves a seed" read this thread. :p

As of last week, four GPI points separates LC, HC, and CU - and keep in mind that Margin of Victory ranking systems are a part of that index. Lafayette would have momentum (winning three straight), but Holy Cross would have strength of schedule on their side and a QB who might play on Sundays. Common opponents you have to give to HC - they played better against Harvard than LC did.Geez. Hopefully Lehigh wins two weeks from now and makes this a moot point. xthumbsupx


I disagree that you can play the "who lost by less game." Lafayette has the only win over a ranked (at the time) non-conference team and a win over a Penn team that can stil win the Ivy title (although they are not the favorite.) Yes Holy Cross's losses have been close but they were still losses.

[Go...gate]

I agree and that would be fun but ...


I want the WE-CAN-RUN-AND-YOU-CAN'T-STOP-US versus WE-CAN-THROW-AND-YOU-CAN'T-STOP-US, steel cage death match, loser-goes-home, winner-take-all, Patriot League Championship game in Hamilton on the 22nd.

Championships decided by scoreboard watching while teams playing in different cities and/or committee votes are not nearly as fun. Let's decide a champion on the field.

When’s the last time the PL has had one game on the final weekend decide the championship and everyone else playing for pride?

Cross and Colgate have played a lot of big games over many, many years, and both teams have won their share. The schools have a lot in common. This one will be fun.

[CrusaderBob]

Go ...gate,

No disagreement here. It is one of my great laments with the PL that they have done little to develop any kind of rivalries outside of those that existed prior to formation of the league (Lehigh/Lafayette & Army/Navy) as an all sports league.

We should have been playing Colgate in the final game of the year every year since 1988. Had that been occurring, not just in football, but every sport, imagine the feel it would have now.

It is also why one more all sports member including football is critical. The league could set up 4 rivalry games to end every season. Whether HC got Colgate, Bucknell, or the new member would really not matter, but over time it would give each school a Lehigh/Lafayette type game to end every season, not just in football, but ther sports as well.

[DFW HOYA]

It is one of my great laments with the PL that they have done little to develop any kind of rivalries outside of those that existed prior to formation of the league (Lehigh/Lafayette & Army/Navy) as an all sports league.

Thank you for echoing a complaint I've lodged for years--the PL is all about keeping the locals (Lehigh, Lafayette) as the top dogs. Great rivalries like HC-Colgate (70 meetings since 1917), Georgetown-Fordham (which dates to 1893) and Colgate-Bucknell (annually since 1950) get no promotion.

The league will never allow Leh-Laf played in week 3, 5 or 10 as these other rivalries might.

[colorless raider]

Thank you for echoing a complaint I've lodged for years--the PL is all about keeping the locals (Lehigh, Lafayette) as the top dogs. Great rivalries like HC-Colgate (70 meetings since 1917), Georgetown-Fordham (which dates to 1893) and Colgate-Bucknell (annually since 1950) get no promotion.

The league will never allow Leh-Laf played in week 3, 5 or 10 as these other rivalries might.

How about a lack of leadership and vision on from the presidents and the Executive Director.xnonox

[LUHawker]

[QUOTE=DFW HOYA;1201357
The league will never allow Leh-Laf played in week 3, 5 or 10 as these other rivalries might.[/QUOTE]

I believe that their is a special scheduling provision in the PL charter that ensures that Lehigh-Lafayette can always play the final game of the season. So while it is tempting to suggest some sort of PL administrative favoritism, this was a condition dating back to the founding of the league.

[ngineer]

Go ...gate,

No disagreement here. It is one of my great laments with the PL that they have done little to develop any kind of rivalries outside of those that existed prior to formation of the league (Lehigh/Lafayette & Army/Navy) as an all sports league.

We should have been playing Colgate in the final game of the year every year since 1988. Had that been occurring, not just in football, but every sport, imagine the feel it would have now.

It is also why one more all sports member including football is critical. The league could set up 4 rivalry games to end every season. Whether HC got Colgate, Bucknell, or the new member would really not matter, but over time it would give each school a Lehigh/Lafayette type game to end every season, not just in football, but ther sports as well.

xlolx No one can have a Lehigh/Lafayette type game...after 143 'meetings' that is not something anyone can just create by a snap of the fingers.;)

[CrusaderBob]

All right. You guys have gotten me going. The PL has missed the boat on a lot of things. Building rivalries is is one of the easiest things they could have done. All it takes is scheduling.


I believe that their is a special scheduling provision in the PL charter that ensures that Lehigh-Lafayette can always play the final game of the season. So while it is tempting to suggest some sort of PL administrative favoritism, this was a condition dating back to the founding of the league.

This does not preclude Holy Cross always playing Colgate on the final weekend of the season and Georgetown always playing Fordham and Bucknell always playing whomever we get as an 8th team or some combination of the above.


xlolx No one can have a Lehigh/Lafayette type game...after 143 'meetings' that is not something anyone can just create by a snap of the fingers.;)

No it is not. But at the time the league was formed HC and Colgate had played something like 48 times in the 51 years between 1934 and 1985. There was a foundation to build on there. And the opportunity to make it happen came following the 1986 season when Holy Cross ended the series with BC. Yet nothing happened then and we're still waiting.

Imagine what the 22nd in Hamilton would be like if for the past 21 seasons Holy Cross had been playing Colgate in the last game of the season. And imagine if HC & Colgate had been playing in the final regular season game of the season in every other sport since 1991.

In 2003, Colgate was undefeated coming into Fiton Field. Holy Cross had one win. Colgate won 45 – 38. Think of what that game would have done to both schools had Holy Cross won. Now multiply football by about 20 other sports that HC & Colgate play by 17 seasons and you have at least 360 opportunities – more when you include possible playoff matchups and sports that play home and home - for a similar thing to have occurred. The upset HC missed that day would have occurred at least a few times.

In those 360+ opportunities, there would have been a few controversial calls, a few hard fouls and a few less than sportsmanlike celebrations of victory that would have built bad blood between teams.

Now you have every athlete in both schools – both schools have about 25% of their student bodies involved in varsity athletics – really not liking the other and really wanting to beat the other no matter how good or bad the team might be.

That attitude really rubs off on the athlete’s friends who come to the games to cheer on their friends. By now you’d have 20 years worth of alumni at HC and Colgate who really don't like the other school. Not quite Lehigh/Lafayette or Army/Navy, but it is a rivalry, a game that becomes an event and in every sport, the rival school is someone you look forward to playing, where you delight in every victory and are crushed by every loss.

That’s the competitive element the PL has been missing. And if we ever add an 8th team in football and bring basketball to 10, I’d love to see the league do this and maybe by 2020 we'd have a couple other real rivalries in the league. And it wouldn't be at the expense of diminishing Lehigh or Lafayette.
----------------------------------

Stepping down off my soapbox!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't disagree that HC/Colgate can be a good football rivalry. Not THE Rivalry, but a pretty good one. The problem, though, is that it's sort-of artificial no matter how you slice it.

Start with institutions. HC is a private religious institution who has been in the lead with the AI, making sure athletes are representative of the incoming class, etc. Colgate is a private secular institution that appears to be quite fine with allowing football scholarships and giving the school the tools to have football teams to compete for PL titles.

As much as HC has been good the past few years, it's hard to shake that the three most important sports are men's basketball, men's basketball, and women's basketball. For Colgate, it's ice hockey and football.

Colgate's teams have been consistent winners in football for the past 13-14 years. Holy Cross, while having played Colgate tough, has pretty much been in the doldrums until four years ago. In basketball, Coglate had the Foyle teams that were great - but for the last (10?) years, Raider basketball has left a lot to be desired, while HC has had consistent winners for the most part.

I don't bring this up because I don't want to see an ongoing HC/Colgate rivalry. I do. I just understand why it hasn't "taken off". There are fewer similarities between the two institutions than, say, Lehigh and Colgate.

------------------------------------------

About PL rivalries, I agree with everyone here that it would serve the league well to have a bunch of "rivalry games" to end the year and market it as such. Whenever I think of expansion, I think of it in those terms. For example, I wonder: what if the PL got The Citadel and VMI in their league, and added, say, Robert Morris? Then you have a "Rivalry Weekend" that could look like this:

The Citadel/VMI
Lehigh/Lafayette
Fordham/Colgate
RMU/Bucknell
Georgetown/Holy Cross

That sort of final football weekend, I think, would offer some great opportunities. "The Rivalry", "The Military Classic of the South", "The Holy War" (GU/HC), "The Battle for Arkansas" (RMU/Bucknell), and the "Cuomo Cup" (Fordham/Colgate). You get the idea. Real cornerstone games that can define the PL.

[Franks Tanks]

I don't disagree that HC/Colgate can be a good football rivalry. Not THE Rivalry, but a pretty good one. The problem, though, is that it's sort-of artificial no matter how you slice it.

Start with institutions. HC is a private religious institution who has been in the lead with the AI, making sure athletes are representative of the incoming class, etc. Colgate is a private secular institution that appears to be quite fine with allowing football scholarships and giving the school the tools to have football teams to compete for PL titles.

As much as HC has been good the past few years, it's hard to shake that the three most important sports are men's basketball, men's basketball, and women's basketball. For Colgate, it's ice hockey and football.

Colgate's teams have been consistent winners in football for the past 13-14 years. Holy Cross, while having played Colgate tough, has pretty much been in the doldrums until four years ago. In basketball, Coglate had the Foyle teams that were great - but for the last (10?) years, Raider basketball has left a lot to be desired, while HC has had consistent winners for the most part.

I don't bring this up because I don't want to see an ongoing HC/Colgate rivalry. I do. I just understand why it hasn't "taken off". There are fewer similarities between the two institutions than, say, Lehigh and Colgate.

------------------------------------------

About PL rivalries, I agree with everyone here that it would serve the league well to have a bunch of "rivalry games" to end the year and market it as such. Whenever I think of expansion, I think of it in those terms. For example, I wonder: what if the PL got The Citadel and VMI in their league, and added, say, Robert Morris? Then you have a "Rivalry Weekend" that could look like this:

The Citadel/VMI
Lehigh/Lafayette
Fordham/Colgate
RMU/Bucknell
Georgetown/Holy Cross

That sort of final football weekend, I think, would offer some great opportunities. "The Rivalry", "The Military Classic of the South", "The Holy War" (GU/HC), "The Battle for Arkansas" (RMU/Bucknell), and the "Cuomo Cup" (Fordham/Colgate). You get the idea. Real cornerstone games that can define the PL.

I like Fordham-Georgetown and Holy Cross-Colgate better

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I like Fordham-Georgetown and Holy Cross-Colgate better

That could absolutely work.

[colorless raider]

All right. You guys have gotten me going. The PL has missed the boat on a lot of things. Building rivalries is is one of the easiest things they could have done. All it takes is scheduling.



This does not preclude Holy Cross always playing Colgate on the final weekend of the season and Georgetown always playing Fordham and Bucknell always playing whomever we get as an 8th team or some combination of the above.



No it is not. But at the time the league was formed HC and Colgate had played something like 48 times in the 51 years between 1934 and 1985. There was a foundation to build on there. And the opportunity to make it happen came following the 1986 season when Holy Cross ended the series with BC. Yet nothing happened then and we're still waiting.

Imagine what the 22nd in Hamilton would be like if for the past 21 seasons Holy Cross had been playing Colgate in the last game of the season. And imagine if HC & Colgate had been playing in the final regular season game of the season in every other sport since 1991.

In 2003, Colgate was undefeated coming into Fiton Field. Holy Cross had one win. Colgate won 45 – 38. Think of what that game would have done to both schools had Holy Cross won. Now multiply football by about 20 other sports that HC & Colgate play by 17 seasons and you have at least 360 opportunities – more when you include possible playoff matchups and sports that play home and home - for a similar thing to have occurred. The upset HC missed that day would have occurred at least a few times.

In those 360+ opportunities, there would have been a few controversial calls, a few hard fouls and a few less than sportsmanlike celebrations of victory that would have built bad blood between teams.

Now you have every athlete in both schools – both schools have about 25% of their student bodies involved in varsity athletics – really not liking the other and really wanting to beat the other no matter how good or bad the team might be.

That attitude really rubs off on the athlete’s friends who come to the games to cheer on their friends. By now you’d have 20 years worth of alumni at HC and Colgate who really don't like the other school. Not quite Lehigh/Lafayette or Army/Navy, but it is a rivalry, a game that becomes an event and in every sport, the rival school is someone you look forward to playing, where you delight in every victory and are crushed by every loss.

That’s the competitive element the PL has been missing. And if we ever add an 8th team in football and bring basketball to 10, I’d love to see the league do this and maybe by 2020 we'd have a couple other real rivalries in the league. And it wouldn't be at the expense of diminishing Lehigh or Lafayette.
----------------------------------

Stepping down off my soapbox!

I am with you Crusader Bob. This years football game is shaping up as a big one!

[Franks Tanks]

That could absolutely work.

Of cousre the input from some fans of the respective schools would be more powerful. But Colgate and Holy Cross do have a pretty decent rivalry. Colgate was certainly Holy Cross's most played opponent in the league when it was formed. I believe Fordham and G-town also had a pretty good rivalry.

[98hoya]

Of cousre the input from some fans of the respective schools would be more powerful. But Colgate and Holy Cross do have a pretty decent rivalry. Colgate was certainly Holy Cross's most played opponent in the league when it was formed. I believe Fordham and G-town also had a pretty good rivalry.

I'll let DFW Hoya give the specifics, but the G'town-Fordham rivalry goes back to the 19th century. GU/Fordham/HC should somehow be rivals, although I have no way to say which should be the "big" game among them. Maybe it'd be like a Harvard/Yale/Princeton thing.

[98hoya]

According to hoyasaxa.com, GU and Fordham started their rivalry in 1890 and have played 52 times.

As an aside, for those who haven't seen it, DFW Hoya created the hoyasaxa.com website many years ago and still regularly updates it. There's both a football and a basketball page, each regularly updated with interesting and useful content.

I say this objectively and not because we root for the same team: it is, by far, the best football website I've ever seen. Here's a link for those who haven't seen the page: http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/football.htm.

I wish everyone in the Georgetown program was as talented and committed as DFW.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll let DFW Hoya give the specifics, but the G'town-Fordham rivalry goes back to the 19th century. GU/Fordham/HC should somehow be rivals, although I have no way to say which should be the "big" game among them. Maybe it'd be like a Harvard/Yale/Princeton thing.

Another great idea!!! The winner of the HC/Fordham/Georgetown axis wins a trophy. In the Ivies, the winner gets a bonfire on campus. What might you call this one? I hesitate to call it this, but what about the "Rector's Trophy"?

With the trophy, this would give extra juice to any season-ending game involving Fordham/Holy Cross/Georgetown playing each other.

[carney2]

I again voice my agreement that the Poohbahs of the Patriot League need to do more than rearrange the deck chairs, call it a revised AI, and go back to their long winter's nap. A start, as many have noted, would be to declare the final weekend of the football season as "rivalry weekend." I always felt that Bucknell-Colgate should be a natural, given all of their academic similarities and looking at a map. Unfortunately, unless and until the Buffaloes figure out that balls come in shapes other than round, I guess it would be just another line on the schedule. I also felt, as some have mentioned, that the 3 Roman Catholic institutions comprised another "natural" grouping, but, alas, 2 into 3 does not go, so my scenario would require another league member to make it happen.

In any event, the league office needs to do something logical here and force rivalries into this final weekend. When I say force, I mean force. Look at the Big Ten. Michigan State-Penn State is hardly an ancient match that arouses the ardor of fans on either side. Still, the conference fathers have forced it on to the schedule as the rivalry game, the final game of the season, and a game that is played every year, regardless of how the schedules are shuffled with two schools off everyone's schedule each year. They've created a trophy that they play for, and appear determined to let it play out as it will. It isn't a perfect solution, but by God they did something.

Are there paid employees of the Patriot League? If so, they aren't earning their money, and this is just one example.

[CrusaderBob]

Started this a while ago and some of the subsequent posts cover what I'm going to say but here goes ...

You have to think beyond football when you're talkingabout building rivalries. Which is why I paired Georgetown with Fordham. Any pairing of a full PL member with either of them would fall apart outside of football.

I'm taking about developing a rivalry for the school, not the football team.



The problem, though, is that it's sort-of artificial no matter how you slice it.

Start with institutions. HC is a private religious institution who has been in the lead with the AI, making sure athletes are representative of the incoming class, etc. Colgate is a private secular institution that appears to be quite fine with allowing football scholarships and giving the school the tools to have football teams to compete for PL titles.


It's artificial now, but had this happened 20 years ago, it would not feel that way at all. You have to start somewhere.

BC was VERY different from Holy Cross, going back to the founding of the schools. That did not get in the way of that rivalry. They shared proximity and were run by Jesuits. As long as we're playing in the same league, by the same rules, a rivalry will develop. It will feel artificial at first, but you don't call it a rivalry then, it's just the last game of the season.




As much as HC has been good the past few years, it's hard to shake that the three most important sports are men's basketball, men's basketball, and women's basketball. For Colgate, it's ice hockey and football.

Colgate's teams have been consistent winners in football for the past 13-14 years. Holy Cross, while having played Colgate tough, has pretty much been in the doldrums until four years ago. In basketball, Coglate had the Foyle teams that were great - but for the last (10?) years, Raider basketball has left a lot to be desired, while HC has had consistent winners for the most part.

From ‘64 and ’76 Holy Cross beat BC once. That did not diminish the zeal for the game in 1977, when HC finally won a game. HC dominated BC over the same period, though not quite as badly, but the games were still crazy every time they played.

It’s not about who’s good in FB or BB. In fact having one dominate a series makes the upsets that much more sweet.




I don't bring this up because I don't want to see an ongoing HC/Colgate rivalry. I do. I just understand why it hasn't "taken off". There are fewer similarities between the two institutions than, say, Lehigh and Colgate.

Other than one being Catholic and the other secular, Holy Cross and Colgate as institutions of higher educational are extraordinarily similar. It makes sense. It hasn’t taken off, because it hasn’t been nurtured as a rivalry. Sure FB and BB are the visible embodiment of the rivalry, but it has to go deeper – especially if you are trying to build the rivalry.

HC–American was close when HC beat AU 2 years in a row in the PL BB Finals. But it has dropped in intensity. And without football, AU just seems like a spectator in the league.

HC–Bucknell is close because for 3 years in mens BB they went toe-to-toe. But if that is not supplemented and built upon soon, I fear that the potential there may whither. That’s where the scheduling helps as I outlined. Rivalries build. They do not just happen. The league has not helped in building rivalries.




Then you have a "Rivalry Weekend" that could look like this:

The Citadel/VMI
Lehigh/Lafayette
Fordham/Colgate
RMU/Bucknell
Georgetown/Holy Cross

That sort of final football weekend, I think, would offer some great opportunities. "The Rivalry", "The Military Classic of the South", "The Holy War" (GU/HC), "The Battle for Arkansas" (RMU/Bucknell), and the "Cuomo Cup" (Fordham/Colgate). You get the idea. Real cornerstone games that can define the PL.

That will not work, again, because you are just thinking football. You have to build it beyond football. GU/FU, HC/CU works much better for that.

Absent league expansion, a few years ago, the PL tried to set up rivalry weekends in Men’s and Women’s basketball as follows:

Army/Navy
Lehigh/Lafayette
Colgate/Bucknell
HC/AU

It never took off because the first year they scheduled two “rivalry weekends,” they scheduled the second weekend to coincide with the BracketBuster and that was also the first year Bucknell played in the BracketBuster, so the second rivalry weekend kind of fell flat.

If the PL is to commit to that model, one way they could build those rivalries is by scheduling that way across all sports. Given the current state of PL football, it could work by establishing a mini-championship among the 3 Jesuit schools playing each other over the final 3 weekends, with HC, FU, & GU alternating years having the final weekend off.

On the final weekend, you’d have the other rivalry games in the league, plus the final competition to determine the Jesuit Three champion of the PL – and possibly the PL champion as well. Think HC playing Fordham last year on the final weekend of the year for not only the PL championship but also the Jesuit Three (Holy Trinity?) Cup.

That’s better than what we do now and would build some interest among students, fans, and alumni. But you have to commit to do it with all sports, not just FB or BB!

[98hoya]

Another great idea!!! The winner of the HC/Fordham/Georgetown axis wins a trophy. In the Ivies, the winner gets a bonfire on campus. What might you call this one? I hesitate to call it this, but what about the "Rector's Trophy"?

With the trophy, this would give extra juice to any season-ending game involving Fordham/Holy Cross/Georgetown playing each other.

This might work for Lehigh/Lafayette/Bucknell too, right? I know the L v. L rivalry is the keystone (no pun intended...wait, maybe it IS intended: let's call it THE KEYSTONE CUP), but it'd be nice to get Bucknell in the mix too. In the HYP rivalry, there's no doubt that H v. Y is the key game, but still, Princeton gets in the mix. That seems analogous.

[Franks Tanks]

This might work for Lehigh/Lafayette/Bucknell too, right? I know the L v. L rivalry is the keystone (no pun intended...wait, maybe it IS intended: let's call it THE KEYSTONE CUP), but it'd be nice to get Bucknell in the mix too. In the HYP rivalry, there's no doubt that H v. Y is the key game, but still, Princeton gets in the mix. That seems analogous.

I agree. Lafayette and Bucknell have a good rivarly and the MVP of the game does get a special trophy at the end of the year. We have played 86 times however so you would think it would generate a little more excitment/pub.

[ngineer]

Another great idea!!! The winner of the HC/Fordham/Georgetown axis wins a trophy. In the Ivies, the winner gets a bonfire on campus. What might you call this one? I hesitate to call it this, but what about the "Rector's Trophy"?With the trophy, this would give extra juice to any season-ending game involving Fordham/Holy Cross/Georgetown playing each other.

Howabout a white collar?;)

[ngineer]

I agree. Lafayette and Bucknell have a good rivarly and the MVP of the game does get a special trophy at the end of the year. We have played 86 times however so you would think it would generate a little more excitment/pub.

I agree. Lehigh and Bucknell have also faced each other alot. This will be the 73rd meeting between the two this week.

[Franks Tanks]

I agree. Lehigh and Bucknell have also faced each other alot. This will be the 73rd meeting between the two this week.

I have always considered Bucknell our 2nd best rival. Penn, Princeton would have to be next with Colgate and the rest of the PL there after.

[Go...gate]

All right. You guys have gotten me going. The PL has missed the boat on a lot of things. Building rivalries is is one of the easiest things they could have done. All it takes is scheduling.



This does not preclude Holy Cross always playing Colgate on the final weekend of the season and Georgetown always playing Fordham and Bucknell always playing whomever we get as an 8th team or some combination of the above.



No it is not. But at the time the league was formed HC and Colgate had played something like 48 times in the 51 years between 1934 and 1985. There was a foundation to build on there. And the opportunity to make it happen came following the 1986 season when Holy Cross ended the series with BC. Yet nothing happened then and we're still waiting.

Imagine what the 22nd in Hamilton would be like if for the past 21 seasons Holy Cross had been playing Colgate in the last game of the season. And imagine if HC & Colgate had been playing in the final regular season game of the season in every other sport since 1991.

In 2003, Colgate was undefeated coming into Fiton Field. Holy Cross had one win. Colgate won 45 – 38. Think of what that game would have done to both schools had Holy Cross won. Now multiply football by about 20 other sports that HC & Colgate play by 17 seasons and you have at least 360 opportunities – more when you include possible playoff matchups and sports that play home and home - for a similar thing to have occurred. The upset HC missed that day would have occurred at least a few times.

In those 360+ opportunities, there would have been a few controversial calls, a few hard fouls and a few less than sportsmanlike celebrations of victory that would have built bad blood between teams.

Now you have every athlete in both schools – both schools have about 25% of their student bodies involved in varsity athletics – really not liking the other and really wanting to beat the other no matter how good or bad the team might be.

That attitude really rubs off on the athlete’s friends who come to the games to cheer on their friends. By now you’d have 20 years worth of alumni at HC and Colgate who really don't like the other school. Not quite Lehigh/Lafayette or Army/Navy, but it is a rivalry, a game that becomes an event and in every sport, the rival school is someone you look forward to playing, where you delight in every victory and are crushed by every loss.

That’s the competitive element the PL has been missing. And if we ever add an 8th team in football and bring basketball to 10, I’d love to see the league do this and maybe by 2020 we'd have a couple other real rivalries in the league. And it wouldn't be at the expense of diminishing Lehigh or Lafayette.
----------------------------------

Stepping down off my soapbox!

Damn good post. Agree wholeheartedly.

[Go...gate]

Thank you for echoing a complaint I've lodged for years--the PL is all about keeping the locals (Lehigh, Lafayette) as the top dogs. Great rivalries like HC-Colgate (70 meetings since 1917), Georgetown-Fordham (which dates to 1893) and Colgate-Bucknell (annually since 1950) get no promotion.

The league will never allow Leh-Laf played in week 3, 5 or 10 as these other rivalries might.

We used to play mid-October every year and it was always a wild game. A lot of Colgate oldtimers see HC as one of the key annual games going back to the 40's and 50's with HC, Cornell, Syracuse, Brown and Princeton on the schedule every year and Army, Yale, Columbia, Lafayette and Rutgers in many years.

[Franks Tanks]

We used to play mid-October every year and it was always a wild game. A lot of Colgate oldtimers see HC as one of the key annual games going back to the 40's and 50's with HC, Cornell, Syracuse, Brown and Princeton on the schedule every year and Army, Yale, Columbia, Lafayette and Rutgers in many years.

All "old timers" seem to remember the great program Holy Cross had back in the day. Lafayette had an older man who was somewhat senile that came to all of the games, he was known as "superfan". When we played HC, and beat, HC he wents nuts. He remembers the glory days of HC football and didnt realize they perhaps no longer played at the same level. My little story is meant to show how much respect older football fans have for the Holy Cross program.

[TheValleyRaider]

A brief interlude from the rivalry matching to make actual picks. Another 4-0 week makes me 36-13 on the season, not too shabby. I'd also throw out there that my record in picking PL games is 12-2

Bucknell at Lehigh Lehigh There's more talent at Lehigh than there is at Bucknell, though the Bison have some tough parts. The Hawks coaching isn't helping, and they've developed this odd tendency to weaken as the game goes on. Still, at home, I think they salvage a little something heading into the rivalry game

Holy Cross at Lafayette Holy Cross Predictions of PL chaos have abounded for the last couple of days, and reasonably so. It is not out of the realm of possibility for the Pards to triumph at home and then HC to bounce back with a win in Hamilton to force a League apocalypse (it would be a repeat of results from last year). Still, I think the Crusaders avoid the chaos and save the world (or at least the League) from the nightmare possibility, and set up the season for all the marbles against Colgate next weekend

Georgetown at Fordham Fordham Two schools for which it has all just gone horribly wrong this year. For the Rams in particular, who were expected to compete for, if not win, the League title. At home, the Rams hold off an impotent Hoya offense to get their first League win since beating HC for the title over a year ago... (was it really that long?)

[ngineer]

A brief interlude from the rivalry matching to make actual picks. Another 4-0 week makes me 36-13 on the season, not too shabby. I'd also throw out there that my record in picking PL games is 12-2

Bucknell at Lehigh Lehigh There's more talent at Lehigh than there is at Bucknell, though the Bison have some tough parts. The Hawks coaching isn't helping, and they've developed this odd tendency to weaken as the game goes on. Still, at home, I think they salvage a little something heading into the rivalry game

Holy Cross at Lafayette Holy Cross Predictions of PL chaos have abounded for the last couple of days, and reasonably so. It is not out of the realm of possibility for the Pards to triumph at home and then HC to bounce back with a win in Hamilton to force a League apocalypse (it would be a repeat of results from last year). Still, I think the Crusaders avoid the chaos and save the world (or at least the League) from the nightmare possibility, and set up the season for all the marbles against Colgate next weekend

Georgetown at Fordham Fordham Two schools for which it has all just gone horribly wrong this year. For the Rams in particular, who were expected to compete for, if not win, the League title. At home, the Rams hold off an impotent Hoya offense to get their first League win since beating HC for the title over a year ago... (was it really that long?)

Yes, it's due to the Rams and the Hoyas that I can keep reminding myself that 'it could be worse.'.....xsmhx

[ColgateTD]

Bucknell @ Lehigh - EnginHawks just too talented for Bisons
Holy Cross @ Lafayette - Air Randolph does a job on the 'Pards D
G'town @ Fordham - Rams find a team they can beat (..sorry DFW).

Record: 40-10

[C-Mo]

I've got Lehigh, Fordham and HC....

...now i've got to convince my wife that i have to go to hamilton next weekend.

[crusader11]

I've got Lehigh, Fordham and HC....

...now i've got to convince my wife that i have to go to hamilton next weekend.

'Atta boy C-Mo. Good to see another 'Sader on the board.

[Go...gate]

I've got Lehigh, Fordham and HC....

...now i've got to convince my wife that I have to go to Hamilton next weekend.

Bring your anti-freeze (the kind that comes in a flask) and snowshoes, C-Mo! Colgate may have FieldTurf, but the weather remains all-natural!!! xnodx xlolx

[C-Mo]

so i've heard....

makes worcester look like the tropics...

[Ivytalk]

Lehigh
Lafayette
Fordham

[LU73]

Lehigh, HC, and Fordham

[LUHawker]

Lehigh
Lafayette
Fordham

Toughest game to predict is the HC-Lafayette tilt, but I'm picking the Pards at home.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I haven't picked the game yet, but I will say the if Laf can beat HC this weekend, it will bring a lot of added juice to "The Rivalry" the following weekend. If Laf goes 2-0, they have get a co-championship and have a decent chance to make the playoffs, either as an at-large or as conference champs. If Lehigh gets the better of them, Colgate then has to beat HC to clinch the title.

I'll certainly be rooting for the Evil empire this weekend. xthumbsupx

[the last indian]

LU
It doesn't matter what LC does if Colgate beats HC. Win lose or draw, Colgate gets the title as they beat LC and will be 5-0 in the league. That is a big "if" of course, but one never knows on the frozen tundra that is Hamilton this time of year.

[6SADER7]

Have you picked Lafayette to win a game all year.? I dont know why but Lafayette always plays Holy Cross very well. We are 6-2 vs. The Cross since 2000, and beat them last year when few people though we would.

And two years ago when no one had us favored we came down there and spanekd you all after going into the half down 21 points.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LU
It doesn't matter what LC does if Colgate beats HC. Win lose or draw, Colgate gets the title as they beat LC and will be 5-0 in the league. That is a big "if" of course, but one never knows on the frozen tundra that is Hamilton this time of year.

Yes. However, LC will be playing for an at-large berth, and I think something that's been very underreported is the fact that a 9-2 Lafayette team with their only losses coming to 1 loss Harvard and potential league champ Colgate has a fairly strong at-large resume.

If JMU and Richmond spank William & Mary, and UNH toasts UMass and Maine, I think Lafayette has an excellent chance at an at-large bid if they win out. Other things can happen, too, helping the 'Pards.

[ngineer]

Yes. However, LC will be playing for an at-large berth, and I think something that's been very underreported is the fact that a 9-2 Lafayette team with their only losses coming to 1 loss Harvard and potential league champ Colgate has a fairly strong at-large resume.

If JMU and Richmond spank William & Mary, and UNH toasts UMass and Maine, I think Lafayette has an excellent chance at an at-large bid if they win out. Other things can happen, too, helping the 'Pards.

Liberty winning out would help them, too.

[Franks Tanks]

And two years ago when no one had us favored we came down there and spanekd you all after going into the half down 21 points.

Well we were only 6-6 that year-- it seemed like nobody wanted to win the PL that year. Forecast calls for rain- we shall see what happens.

[crusader11]

And two years ago when no one had us favored we came down there and spanekd you all after going into the half down 21 points.

That was Dom's coming out party...one of the best HC games I have ever seen. After seeing Jonathan Hurt run through the HC defense after the first 2 drives I thought it was going to be a loooooong day. But then Dom and the WR's got it together, and well, the rest is history. The best QB to ever play in the PL will do it all again this Saturday causing Leopard fans to shake their heads, once again, like they did 2 years ago.

[crusader11]

Oh, and welcome 6Sader7.

[6SADER7]

That was Dom's coming out party...one of the best HC games I have ever seen. After seeing Jonathan Hurt run through the HC defense after the first 2 drives I thought it was going to be a loooooong day. But then Dom and the WR's got it together, and well, the rest is history. The best QB to ever play in the PL will do it all again this Saturday causing Leopard fans to shake their heads, once again, like they did 2 years ago.

I definatley consider that to be the best game I've ever played in. I remember going into halftime stunned by what had happend, but leaving the locker room sure that we would be able to come back and have a chance at winning the game. With our quick scoring offense and Dom having asserted himself by that point in the season, we knew we could score fast and often.

I think a huge part of saturdays game, as I've said on our board will come down to how well our O-line handles different looks that LC is going to throw at us. If we can stop a lot of the stunts and edge pressure, we are going to have a field day, at least on offense.

[6SADER7]

and thanks, crusader 11

[ngineer]

Forecast for the Lehigh Valley this Saturday, again, calling for rain. This time in the form of scattered thunderstorms following light rain in the a.m. This crappy weather every home game is getting old.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fordham 27 Georgetown 13: The Hoyas struggles continue while Rams are sleep walking towards 2009.

Holy Cross 38 Lafayette 24: Lafayette has been hit pretty hard by injuries and have had so-so results against good teams this year. I don't see the 'Pards being able to stop Randolph nor put up enough points to win a shootout.

Lehigh 21 Bucknell 17: I don't believe Bucknell is good enough to exploit Lehigh's weakness, which is themselves. A Lehigh loss and it will be mutiny heading into Lafayette week.

37-9 Overall
4-0 Last Week

[letsgopards04]

That was Dom's coming out party...one of the best HC games I have ever seen. After seeing Jonathan Hurt run through the HC defense after the first 2 drives I thought it was going to be a loooooong day. But then Dom and the WR's got it together, and well, the rest is history. The best QB to ever play in the PL will do it all again this Saturday causing Leopard fans to shake their heads, once again, like they did 2 years ago.

Really? Best ever? I would put Baur and Stambaugh up against Dom any day. I would even say that the Lafayette pass defense gives Dom an uncharacteristically bad day and takes him out of the Payton running.

[LehighFan11]

Randolph is great but he also is a product of the system.

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham 27 Georgetown 13: The Hoyas struggles continue while Rams are sleep walking towards 2009.


Well, 13 points is above our average of 9.0 ppg in games not involving Bucknell.

[carney2]

The "line" for the week:

LEHIGH 13 over BUCKNELL

LAFAYETTE 4 over HOLY CROSS

FORDHAM 14 1/2 over GEORGETOWN

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Randolph is great but he also is a product of the system.

You could make the exact same case for Stambaugh being part of the system, too. But what Stambaugh did that Randolph so far has not is: win a big game with the title on the line. As a soph and junior, Randolph couldn't carry the team on his back into the postseason, or even a title. Stambaugh did that.

[hc12]

November 15

BUCKNELL 14 @ LEHIGH 2712:30 PM

HOLY CROSS 35 @ LAFAYETTE 17
1:00 PM

GEORGETOWN 17 @ FORDHAM 28
1:00 PM

COLGATE - Bye

[HoyaMetanoia]

The Hoyas drop to 2-8, leaving many questions to be answered in the offseason.

[crusader11]

Really? Best ever? I would put Baur and Stambaugh up against Dom any day. I would even say that the Lafayette pass defense gives Dom an uncharacteristically bad day and takes him out of the Payton running.

Well, if we are going by purely stats, he is.

[Franks Tanks]

Well, if we are going by purely stats, he is.

I think Dom is great, but you cant just look at stats. If we did that then Timmy Chang is the GOAT with those crazy numbers he put up. If Dom can win a PL championship and make some noise in the playoffs his legacy will be firm. If not he will have Dan Marino and formerly Peyton Manning syndrome of not winning the big games.

Stanbaugh, Vena, Baur, Eakin, and Randolph are a few of the PL QB's that immediately come to mind. There may be others, but all those guys were very good to great.

[CrusaderBob]

Football coming into the stretch. Basketball starting. HC wins in BB Friday. Women play this afternoon. Football @ Laffy, Mens Soccer in the PL Championship Sunday. Men BB Sunday vs. St. Joes with a huge tribute to HC BB legends Kaftan, Palazzi, Heinsohn, & Cousy. College sports heaven. But not much time. So picks are late.

Last Week 4 - 0
This Year 38 - 12

Lehigh over Bucknell

Fordham over Georgetown

Holy Cross over Lafayette to set up the winner-take-all PL Championship in Hamilton next week!

Go Cross!!

[DFW HOYA]

The Hoyas drop to 2-8, leaving many questions to be answered in the offseason.

That's an understatement.

[HoyaMetanoia]

From now on, instead of picking the winner of the Georgetown games, I say we pick yardage for Georgetown.

If you picked 100 this week, I'm sorry, but you shot too high.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I've been short changing myself wins all year. I just went through the all the weeks and my real record is...

45-9 Overall
17-0 PL Record
15-0 the last 4 weeks!!

Anyone better?xrulesx

[TheValleyRaider]

I've been short changing myself wins all year. I just went through the all the weeks and my real record is...

45-9 Overall
17-0 PL Record
15-0 the last 4 weeks!!

Anyone better?xrulesx

I'm checking my own numbers, and I'm not sure ours are equivalent

I've got:
41-12 overall (53 games to your 54) xconfusedx

I'm also 15-2 in the League and 14-1 in the last 4 weeks

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm checking my own numbers, and I'm not sure ours are equivalent

I've got:
41-12 overall (53 games to your 54) xconfusedx

I'm also 15-2 in the League and 14-1 in the last 4 weeks

I think it might be 53 games. I think Colgate/Georgetown game might have screwed me up. I tried counting on the PL website but my eyes kept messing with me.

[TheValleyRaider]

I think it might be 53 games. I think Colgate/Georgetown game might have screwed me up. I tried counting on the PL website but my eyes kept messing with me.

That might make sense

I went back through my picks (been keeping them in a file for easy calculations) to make sure. Even found a game I had accidently counted as a miss that I actually got

Still, quite impressive picking xbowx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That might make sense

I went back through my picks (been keeping them in a file for easy calculations) to make sure. Even found a game I had accidently counted as a miss that I actually got

Still, quite impressive picking xbowx

The games i got wrong were P=my pick
Stony Brook-Colgate (P)
Colgate-Coastal Carolina (P)
Georgetown-Howard (P)
(P)Fordham-Dayton
(P)Lehigh-Priceton
(P)Holy Cross-Yale
(P)Lafayette-Harvard
(P)Lehigh-Harvard
(P)Yale-Fordham