Richmond to join the Patriot League in 2025

[crusader11]

LFG!

https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/1790421848447988172

[crusader11]

I've been beating this drum for a while regarding the CAA...I'm just surprised it's Richmond and not the northern-most CAA schools that made the jump.

[crusader11]

I don't think this move is happening in isolation.

Have a feeling Villanova follows suit.

CAA is becoming a hot garbage league and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Wow.

They are jumping without the redshirt restriction being lifted. CAA-FB became too bloated.

[crusader11]

Wow.

They are jumping without the redshirt restriction being lifted. CAA-FB became too bloated.

Non-medical redshirting in the PL is now permitted. The league also moved from 60 to 63 scholarships.

The final handcuff that needs to be lifted is the Academic Index.

[katss07]

https://twitter.com/DanSteenkamer/status/1790433696949891246?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

doesnt look like certain UR players are too happy about this move

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Non-medical redshirting in the PL is now permitted. The league also moved from 60 to 63 scholarships.

The final handcuff that needs to be lifted is the Academic Index.

Gotcha.

Drop it and the PL is cooking.

[Tribe4SF]

https://twitter.com/DanSteenkamer/status/1790433696949891246?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

doesnt look like certain UR players are too happy about this move

Neither are their fans.

[crusader11]

Maybe adding Hampton, NC A&T, Campbell, Bryant, Monmouth, and Campbell wasn't the best idea? I'm not surprised at all that one of the CAA "staples" is moving on. I don't think they will be the only one.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Neither are their fans.

Their message board is livid. https://richmond.forums.rivals.com/threads/spider-football-to-the-patriot-league-in-2025.15085/#post-422205

[WestCoastAggie]

Maybe adding Hampton, NC A&T, Campbell, Bryant, Monmouth, and Campbell wasn't the best idea? I'm not surprised at all that one of the CAA "staples" is moving on. I don't think they will be the only one.

If these additions didn't occur, W&M (and Richmond) would be in the SoCon and both the CAAF and CAA would be in precarious positions.

[Pards Rule]

Frankly I love the 5 OOC games - especially our recent scheduling of one D1

[kdinva]

Soooo: that two for one FB contract with VMI needs to be a full two for two home & home, IMO.

[caribbeanhen]

I always said that CAA was doing “estate planning” by adding all these new teams. They knew what was gonna happen and tried to plan for it.

[Pards Rule]

Still time to rescind!!

[ncspiderfan]

I always said that CAA was doing “estate planning” by adding all these new teams. They knew what was gonna happen and tried to plan for it.

You called it. I had hoped you were wrong, but man Spiders did not need to move down in competition. From what was posted on the Spider board, they may have had a choice to go SoCon.

If I find out more will post it.

[Franks Tanks]

Well, after roughly 700 threads on this board about Richmond/Nova/W&M joining the PL it finally happened (with one). We did it!

[Pards Rule]

You called it. I had hoped you were wrong, but man Spiders did not need to move down in competition. From what was posted on the Spider board, they may have had a choice to go SoCon.

If I find out more will post it.

Hoping the outcry causes the Spiders to rescind

[centraljerseycat]

Well my hybrid league (America East) is not happening so I hope Villanova joins the Spiders.

[Sitting Bull]

If these additions didn't occur, W&M (and Richmond) would be in the SoCon and both the CAAF and CAA would be in precarious positions.

Correct, plus bringing in Stony Brook as a full, all sports member. The CAA now has 8 core members - all sports to include football:
Elon, NC A&T, W&M, Campbell, Towson, Hampton, Monmouth and Stony Brook.

That was the wisdom of the expansion. You don’t want a league where affiliates (like Richmond, Bryant, Villanova, Maine, etc) are calling the shots.

If they bring in UAlbany as speculated, that’s 9 core members. Though it’s not at this point necessary.

I think some obviously look down their noses at Hampton and NC A&T. It’s ignorance more than anything else.

[WestCoastAggie]

Correct, plus bringing in Stony Brook as a full, all sports member. The CAA now has 8 core members - all sports to include football:
Elon, NC A&T, W&M, Campbell, Towson, Hampton, Monmouth and Stony Brook.

That was the wisdom of the expansion. You don’t want a league where affiliates (like Richmond, Bryant, Villanova, Maine, etc) are calling the shots.

If they bring in UAlbany as speculated, that’s 9 core members. Though it’s not at this point necessary.

I think some obviously look down their noses at Hampton and NC A&T. It’s ignorance more than anything else.

Looking at the core, all sports members, that's not a bad conference. The AE affiliate members + Nova add to the conference's strength. With 14 teams in 25, CAAF can split in N/S divisions. and if Nova + AE schools split off, the additional OOC games allow for us to book more teams our fans want to see.

The shock still feels icky but once emotions subside, we see all isn't lost within the conference.

[Wolffan]

You called it. I had hoped you were wrong, but man Spiders did not need to move down in competition. From what was posted on the Spider board, they may have had a choice to go SoCon.

If I find out more will post it.

Holy Cross may have demonstrated to Richmond admin that football success is possible in an academic- forward league.

[aceinthehole]

Correct, plus bringing in Stony Brook as a full, all sports member. The CAA now has 8 core members - all sports to include football:
Elon, NC A&T, W&M, Campbell, Towson, Hampton, Monmouth and Stony Brook.

That was the wisdom of the expansion. You don’t want a league where affiliates (like Richmond, Bryant, Villanova, Maine, etc) are calling the shots.

If they bring in UAlbany as speculated, that’s 9 core members. Though it’s not at this point necessary.

I think some obviously look down their noses at Hampton and NC A&T. It’s ignorance more than anything else.

"Core" members is the key. CAA maintain a sold core of 8 and with the hoops side, I don't see a sinking ship.

IMO the pressure is on America East. We know that Albany is on the board for expansion - and that wouldn't impact the football side. Do they join the CAA like Stony Brook did or stay in the AE? That is the next domino.

Villanova is likely to follow UR to the Patriot for football, but I don't think that changes anything for the CAA-8. They likely stay put.

You might see a CAA split if Albany is committed to America East and they rest of the league wants to have some more control of football instead of it being driven my the CAA teams.

America East:
1. Albany
2. Bryant
3. Maine
4. New Hampshire
5. Central Connecticut (+AE)
6. Rhode Island (A-10)
7. Merrimack (MAAC)
8. Sacred Heart (MAAC)

CAA:
1. Campbell
2. Elon
3. Hampton
4. Monmouth
5. North Carolina A&T
6. Stony Brook
7. Towson
8. William & Mary

Patriot League:
1. Bucknell
2. Colgate
3. Holy Cross
4. Lafayette
5. Lehigh
6. Fordham (A-10)
7. Georgetown (Big East)
8. Richmond (A-10)
9. Villanova (Big East)

Northeast:
1. LIU
2. Mercyhurst
3. Saint Francis
4. Stonehill
5. Wagner
6. Duquesne (A-10)
7. Robert Morris (Horizon)

[wapiti]

Well, after roughly 700 threads on this board about Richmond/Nova/W&M joining the PL it finally happened (with one). We did it!
If those 3 teams leave the CAA I would feel bad for New Hampshire for a few minutes.

[UNHWildcat18]

Stupid AF. I can’t believe Richmond is leaving for the dumpster fire that is the PL…..

[crusader11]

Stupid AF. I can’t believe Richmond is leaving for the dumpster fire that is the PL…..

Dumpster fire?

When Villanova follows suit, all of a sudden the CAA becomes the inferior league...

[caribbeanhen]

You called it. I had hoped you were wrong, but man Spiders did not need to move down in competition. From what was posted on the Spider board, they may have had a choice to go SoCon.

If I find out more will post it.

thanks but just because I posted it just means I stole it from somewhere, but there were hints

[Wolffan]

Stupid AF. I can’t believe Richmond is leaving for the dumpster fire that is the PL….. I can understand why UNH would feel sad about about the departure of Richmond (on the heels of the departure of Delaware and JMU) but UNH v Holy Cross has gotten to be a nice little rivalry the last decade and nobody's called the HC football program a dumpster fire in quite a while. If Nova heads to the PL I'll start feeling a little bad for UNH.

[KPSUL]

If those 3 teams leave the CAA I would feel bad for New Hampshire for a few minutes.

The CAA needs to break into a North/South configuration. For all intents and purposes that's what is happening this season with our schedule. We go south of Pennsylvania to play a FCS game once in the 2024 season. There are plenty of good FCS teams in the Northeast now, I like the OOC opportunities and a Northern CAA conference schedule just fine. We have had an incredible series with Richmond and Villanova over the past 30+ season.(perhaps not William and Mary as the had our number more often than not). But we are building additional rivalries with Albany, and a resurgent Rhode Island and even Monmouth now. However; without a formal North/South divisional split, I fear more current CAA members may be jumping ship until CAA-Football implodes on itself.

[caribbeanhen]

If these additions didn't occur, W&M (and Richmond) would be in the SoCon and both the CAAF and CAA would be in precarious positions.

Heard at CAA HQ

ring ring

Who's there?

its Delaware State

gov is at the door
and the telephone rings on the kitchen wall
pretend we’re not at home and they’ll disappear … SPM

NC A&T was a nice addition to the CAA imho but Hampton really seemed like a stretch

[DFW HOYA]

Patriot League:
1. Bucknell
2. Colgate
3. Holy Cross
4. Lafayette
5. Lehigh
6. Fordham (A-10)
7. Georgetown (Big East)
8. Richmond (A-10)
9. Villanova (Big East)


Honestly, how many games would Bucknell and Georgetown win in that alignment?

[KPSUL]

Dumpster fire?

When Villanova follows suit, all of a sudden the CAA becomes the inferior league...

Hold the wild horses Crusader! Let's see how Holy Cross fares in the post Bob Chesney, Matt Sluka era. The only thing truly better about the PL over the past few seasons has been Holy Cross. Lafayette had a nice little season in 2023 and Fordham poked their heads above the PL crowd briefly but Colgate and Lehigh have been below traditional standards.

[Fordham]

Welcome aboard Spiders!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Before I jump into the back and worth of this thread, just wanted to say welcome aboard Richmond! I'm still salty you guys got into the playoffs over us last year but the Spiders were the more deserving team. Cheers to a continued run of great seasons under the Patriot League banner.

[Southsider]

This makes so much sense. Now Nova needs to move as well. After all, who are all you anti-PL folks trying to impress? At this level the goal s/b good rivalries in close proximities that fans from both schools can attend. CFB is such a mess, and it will get worse due to the $$$. Just attend games at your local school and enjoy a nice Saturday afternoon. That's as good as it's going to get!

[FUBeAR]

At this level the goal s/b good rivalries in close proximities that fans from both schools can attend. CFB is such a mess, and it will get worse due to the $$$. Just attend games at your local school and enjoy a nice Saturday afternoon. That's as good as it's going to get!
https://c.tenor.com/AZ5mgxiNEloAAAAC/tenor.gif

[ncspiderfan]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Hope Spiders contribute to the conference in a positive way. Starting fall of 2025, I am all aboard, though I admit I have to get used to the idea. Spiders have one game next year that is not a bus ride, the travel involved is a big minus in my mind. In the long run it might be best as the CAA continues to look like it wants to fall apart.

Just watched Coach Huesman's press conference and his hopes seemed to be the Spiders are a positive to the conference and told players the goals have not changed. They still will be playing for conference titles and playoff berths with the intention of competing National Titles. His biggest concerns seemed to be the redshirt rule questions as Spiders use it a lot and build from HS recruits and plug in a transfer here and there to fill immediate need holes. I think they only have three incoming transfers this year and one of them is a fifth-year kicker, I admit I could have missed one. Point being in the past RS Seniors have been a big part of Spider program building.

He spoke highly of Patriot League and even referenced success in near misses at FBS scalps the last couple of years. He also was obviously hesitant when ask about recruiting of the same players but did say many Spiders players as a whole have been PL recruits as well.

I think the link will work if you care to watch. If not, it is on richmondspiders.com

Richmond Football to Move to Patriot League Following 2024 Season - University of Richmond Athletics (richmondspiders.com) (https://richmondspiders.com/news/2024/5/14/richmond-football-to-move-to-patriot-league-following-2024-season.aspx)

[MUHAWKS]

Monmouth tried a couple times to join the PL- first back when the NEC kicked us out b/c we left for the Maac for hoops and then another inquiry before eventually landing in The CAA. The reason for denial from what I know was strictly b/c of the academic stuff.

Here are the facts- The PL in the last several years and I mean like MANY years has been subpar OVERALL. But The CAA is also not even close to what it once was and I mean even before all the new teams. Holy Cross really has been the only team to do anything. Sure, Lafayette had a great year and Fordham has has a decent run but I am not sure those two can be validated just yet. They very well may be but the bottom line is The PL is extremely top heavy whereas the CAA has more parity. I would like to see what HC can do without Chesney and even Sluka. It was not very long ago that they were a mediocre program. I am not saying they cannot keep it up and frankly I hope they and the rest of the PL do- I like that conference and the tradition.

Another thought- I do not want to get political but the IVY LEAGUE may lose a little luster here with all the protest and far left stuff and that could really help certain PL schools with recruiting- None of the PL schools degrees "mean" as much as an IVY but I think the world is changing in that regard and the chance to go to say Lehigh, Lafayette, Richmond, HC etc etc for free over loans and aid to go to Columbia or Cornell seems like a no brainer- Princeton and Harvard maybe not, but you get my drift.

Lastly- None of this stuff even means much right now as even more sweeping changes will take place over the next few years anyway. For all we know there are dozens of FCS Football schools who will drop Football, go to the FBS or they may need to change the "Dayton Rule" BS as some may opt to just play D3- How sustainable is it to run a program at a deficit for some of the private schools and eve some states, while getting your players poached for NIL $$$. Look at us- Coming into this year (2024) as of 18 months ago we were gonna have Tony Muskett at QB, Dymere Miller at WR and Jaden Shirden at RB. Add to it 3 other starting OL and various others all gone for money reasons. This in a declining enrolment environment. I guess my point is- for decades we knew what we had. There was non scholly FCS (1995-2006 era NEC, Pioneer, Patriot etc) and then the CAA and the other couple good conferences. Most schools stayed put and we all knew what we had other than the random jump here or there. Now this is rampant and eventually as the TOP FBS schools inevitably move to the "semi pro" division and "everyone else" The FCS will undergo more change as well.

I am a fan of The PL- I love driving to Easton and Bethlehem etc. I like the schools and tradition. The PL being consistently good can only help FCS football. The CAA is obviously on the decline and IMO that has more to do with JMU leaving then UDEL than it does adding some schools (although I guess one apparently has something to do with the other). Not sure exactly what I am saying but I think after all the NIL and Portal stuff dies down, and it will as players get more and more screwed, there will be an even bigger evolution. For now though good for The PL but I remain skeptical of how long HC stays good for and if the Fordhams and Lafayattes of the world can stay good. And I remain even more skeptical of Lehigh, Bucknell etc eve getting back. IMO this would all change if there were less stringent academic issues. I HATE this new era with a passion and I want the old days back but I would love if the PL were consistently really good, and they def have gotten closer recently. Bittersweet time to be a new member of the CAA (like us)..

[NY Crusader 2010]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Hope Spiders contribute to the conference in a positive way. Starting fall of 2025, I am all aboard, though I admit I have to get used to the idea. Spiders have one game next year that is not a bus ride, the travel involved is a big minus in my mind. In the long run it might be best as the CAA continues to look like it wants to fall apart.

Just watched Coach Huesman's press conference and his hopes seemed to be the Spiders are a positive to the conference and told players the goals have not changed. They still will be playing for conference titles and playoff berths with the intention of competing National Titles. His biggest concerns seemed to be the redshirt rule questions as Spiders use it a lot and build from HS recruits and plug in a transfer here and there to fill immediate need holes. I think they only have three incoming transfers this year and one of them is a fifth-year kicker, I admit I could have missed one. Point being in the past RS Seniors have been a big part of Spider program building.

He spoke highly of Patriot League and even referenced success in near misses at FBS scalps the last couple of years. He also was obviously hesitant when ask about recruiting of the same players but did say many Spiders players as a whole have been PL recruits as well.

I think the link will work if you care to watch. If not, it is on richmondspiders.com

Richmond Football to Move to Patriot League Following 2024 Season - University of Richmond Athletics (richmondspiders.com) (https://richmondspiders.com/news/2024/5/14/richmond-football-to-move-to-patriot-league-following-2024-season.aspx)

It's my understanding, from what I hear from insiders, that the Patriot League is now going to allow non-medical redshirts. The Holy Cross squads of 2022 and 2023 were built upon 5th years with COVID eligibility.

The biggest question would be the AI and how it will affect recruiting, but I doubt that's going away.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The CAA needs to break into a North/South configuration. For all intents and purposes that's what is happening this season with our schedule. We go south of Pennsylvania to play a FCS game once in the 2024 season. There are plenty of good FCS teams in the Northeast now, I like the OOC opportunities and a Northern CAA conference schedule just fine. We have had an incredible series with Richmond and Villanova over the past 30+ season.(perhaps not William and Mary as the had our number more often than not). But we are building additional rivalries with Albany, and a resurgent Rhode Island and even Monmouth now. However; without a formal North/South divisional split, I fear more current CAA members may be jumping ship until CAA-Football implodes on itself.

The "implosion" of CAA football occurs if the northern schools leave to form America East Football. The ball is actually squarely in the court of UNH, URI, Bryant Maine and Albany in that regard. CAA is apparently trying hard to get Albany on as an all-sports member so the time window to act is probably very soon.

[Son of Eli]

.

Another thought- I do not want to get political but the IVY LEAGUE may lose a little luster here with all the protest and far left stuff and that could really help certain PL schools with recruiting- None of the PL schools degrees "mean" as much as an IVY but I think the world is changing in that regard and the chance to go to say Lehigh, Lafayette, Richmond, HC etc etc for free over loans and aid to go to Columbia or Cornell seems like a no brainer- Princeton and Harvard maybe not, but you get my drift.

..

The value of an Ivy League degree could have been an effective defense against NIL$ and the transfer portal. There is definitely a chink in the Ivy League’s armor now due to the political turmoil/scandals on campus which have alienated many alumni and other potential employers.

[DFW HOYA]

Lastly- None of this stuff even means much right now as even more sweeping changes will take place over the next few years anyway. For all we know there are dozens of FCS Football schools who will drop Football, go to the FBS or they may need to change the "Dayton Rule" BS as some may opt to just play D3- How sustainable is it to run a program at a deficit for some of the private schools and eve some states, while getting your players poached for NIL $$$. Look at us- Coming into this year (2024) as of 18 months ago we were gonna have Tony Muskett at QB, Dymere Miller at WR and Jaden Shirden at RB. Add to it 3 other starting OL and various others all gone for money reasons. This in a declining enrolment environment. I guess my point is- for decades we knew what we had. There was non scholly FCS (1995-2006 era NEC, Pioneer, Patriot etc) and then the CAA and the other couple good conferences. Most schools stayed put and we all knew what we had other than the random jump here or there. Now this is rampant and eventually as the TOP FBS schools inevitably move to the "semi pro" division and "everyone else" The FCS will undergo more change as well.

I am a fan of The PL- I love driving to Easton and Bethlehem etc. I like the schools and tradition. The PL being consistently good can only help FCS football. The CAA is obviously on the decline and IMO that has more to do with JMU leaving then UDEL than it does adding some schools (although I guess one apparently has something to do with the other). Not sure exactly what I am saying but I think after all the NIL and Portal stuff dies down, and it will as players get more and more screwed, there will be an even bigger evolution. For now though good for The PL but I remain skeptical of how long HC stays good for and if the Fordhams and Lafayattes of the world can stay good. And I remain even more skeptical of Lehigh, Bucknell etc eve getting back. IMO this would all change if there were less stringent academic issues. I HATE this new era with a passion and I want the old days back but I would love if the PL were consistently really good, and they def have gotten closer recently. Bittersweet time to be a new member of the CAA (like us)..

If Lehigh and Bucknell may never get back, where does Georgetown fit in? When last we met, Monmouth won handily, 45-6.

Is MU returning this game in the future?

https://twitter.com/MUHawksFB/status/1571212412728000516

[MUHAWKS]

[QUOTE=MUHAWKS;3188200]Another thought- I do not want to get political but the IVY LEAGUE may lose a little luster here with all the protest and far left stuff and that could really help certain PL schools with recruiting- None of the PL schools degrees "mean" as much as an IVY but I think the world is changing in that regard and the chance to go to say Lehigh, Lafayette, Richmond, HC etc etc for free over loans and aid to go to Columbia or Cornell seems like a no brainer- Princeton and Harvard maybe not, but you get my drift.

The value of an Ivy League degree could have been an effective defense against NIL$ and the transfer portal. There is definitely a chink in the Ivy League’s armor now due to the political turmoil on campus which has alienated many alumni and other potential employers.


Now that the free "Covid year" is gone ( I think??) correct me if I am wrong but The IVY has no redshirting and you are only allowed 4 years right? In the past and eve currently, the top IVY teams are legitimate top 25 teams sometimes better- They have several FBS quality players on their teams and the reason why is obvious- Plenty of kids who could go to Syracuse or Rutgers or wherever but see the value in a Yale, Harvard degree and the networking that comes with it. That will still remain the case but I guess what I am getting at is- You cannot transfer IN to an IVY as a post grad (nor would you) and who the hell would transfer out unless sire circumstances, so yes Eli, that is what I was getting at- There are "good" players getting 100-300k to transfer for 1-2 years. There will def be some who still see the tradition and honor of the Ivies, but the reason why the best Ivies are usually good is TALENT and that is FBS type talent and the reason they are there is for the "future"- but if the future can become the present, maybe not so bad to go to UVA, Boston College or even Holy Cross- althogh no FCS schools can truly offer any real NIL $$- but at least it becomes a decision now with that "political" stuff..

[MUHAWKS]

If Lehigh and Bucknell may never get back, where does Georgetown fit in? When last we met, Monmouth won handily, 45-6.

Is MU returning this game in the future?

https://twitter.com/MUHawksFB/status/1571212412728000516


I am really not sure- I know we played in DC once but it was a while ago. Our PL opponents in the near future are as follows

2024- Lafayette (home) Fordham (home)

2025- Colgate (away) Fordham (away)

after that no clue but we are doing a home/away with Princeton again I think 2028/2029

There was a time when we would get rolled badly by PL teams and then we finally broke through in The NEC beating a nationally ranked Colgate team up there. Then at one point I think we won like 9 in a row against The PL- The tides have turned lately with HC, Fordham and Lafayette all getting the best of us (we beat them too but took losses)-- I would not be surprised at all if tis goes back the other way where solid P teams beat average CAA teams- As for the Hoyas, I have no idea how you even compete as well as you do now (not sarcastic) with no scholarships.. No clue what the future holds but I could forsee a separate coference for schools that do not want to invest as much and Monmouth could very well be one of them b/c we simply have no clue what it takes administration wise to compete nationally. Money does not seem to be an issue for You but rather by choice but it will beome an issue for us soon.

[caribbeanhen]

Monmouth tried a couple times to join the PL- first back when the NEC kicked us out b/c we left for the Maac for hoops and then another inquiry before eventually landing in The CAA. The reason for denial from what I know was strictly b/c of the academic stuff.

Here are the facts- The PL in the last several years and I mean like MANY years has been subpar OVERALL. But The CAA is also not even close to what it once was and I mean even before all the new teams. Holy Cross really has been the only team to do anything. Sure, Lafayette had a great year and Fordham has has a decent run but I am not sure those two can be validated just yet. They very well may be but the bottom line is The PL is extremely top heavy whereas the CAA has more parity. I would like to see what HC can do without Chesney and even Sluka. It was not very long ago that they were a mediocre program. I am not saying they cannot keep it up and frankly I hope they and the rest of the PL do- I like that conference and the tradition.

Another thought- I do not want to get political but the IVY LEAGUE may lose a little luster here with all the protest and far left stuff and that could really help certain PL schools with recruiting- None of the PL schools degrees "mean" as much as an IVY but I think the world is changing in that regard and the chance to go to say Lehigh, Lafayette, Richmond, HC etc etc for free over loans and aid to go to Columbia or Cornell seems like a no brainer- Princeton and Harvard maybe not, but you get my drift.

Lastly- None of this stuff even means much right now as even more sweeping changes will take place over the next few years anyway. For all we know there are dozens of FCS Football schools who will drop Football, go to the FBS or they may need to change the "Dayton Rule" BS as some may opt to just play D3- How sustainable is it to run a program at a deficit for some of the private schools and eve some states, while getting your players poached for NIL $$$. Look at us- Coming into this year (2024) as of 18 months ago we were gonna have Tony Muskett at QB, Dymere Miller at WR and Jaden Shirden at RB. Add to it 3 other starting OL and various others all gone for money reasons. This in a declining enrolment environment. I guess my point is- for decades we knew what we had. There was non scholly FCS (1995-2006 era NEC, Pioneer, Patriot etc) and then the CAA and the other couple good conferences. Most schools stayed put and we all knew what we had other than the random jump here or there. Now this is rampant and eventually as the TOP FBS schools inevitably move to the "semi pro" division and "everyone else" The FCS will undergo more change as well.

I am a fan of The PL- I love driving to Easton and Bethlehem etc. I like the schools and tradition. The PL being consistently good can only help FCS football. The CAA is obviously on the decline and IMO that has more to do with JMU leaving then UDEL than it does adding some schools (although I guess one apparently has something to do with the other). Not sure exactly what I am saying but I think after all the NIL and Portal stuff dies down, and it will as players get more and more screwed, there will be an even bigger evolution. For now though good for The PL but I remain skeptical of how long HC stays good for and if the Fordhams and Lafayattes of the world can stay good. And I remain even more skeptical of Lehigh, Bucknell etc eve getting back. IMO this would all change if there were less stringent academic issues. I HATE this new era with a passion and I want the old days back but I would love if the PL were consistently really good, and they def have gotten closer recently. Bittersweet time to be a new member of the CAA (like us)..

love the passion MUHAWKS

on Holy Cross, yes Chesney is obviously a good coach but c’mon…. Sluka elevated Chesney and it’s not a coincidence Chesney moved along when Sluka did….. smart move

[Fordham]

love the passion MUHAWKS

on Holy Cross, yes Chesney is obviously a good coach but c’mon…. Sluka elevated Chesney and it’s not a coincidence Chesney moved along when Sluka did….. smart move

Chesney was much more than just Sluka, CaribbeanHen. He’s a fantastic coach

[MUHAWKS]

Chesney was much more than just Sluka, CaribbeanHen. He’s a fantastic coach


C-Hen is usually spot on but gotta agree with Fordham here- Chesney was a great in game coach, not to mention recruiter and clearly always prepared. These last few HC teams were rarely flat and when things were not going the best they always seemed to turn it on. Yes, No Sluka ad things are vastly different but I bet there are coaches that would have messed it up.

[NY Crusader 2010]

C-Hen is usually spot on but gotta agree with Fordham here- Chesney was a great in game coach, not to mention recruiter and clearly always prepared. These last few HC teams were rarely flat and when things were not going the best they always seemed to turn it on. Yes, No Sluka ad things are vastly different but I bet there are coaches that would have messed it up.

The ball definitely seemed to bounce our way during the Chesney era. Seemed the opposite when we had Gilmore. Winning programs create their own luck.

With regards to Sluka, Holy Cross would've been a Top 25 team and a beast of a Patriot League squad without him under Chesney. With him we were a national title contender at our peak. The "luck" finally seemed to even out a bit in 2023 -- if only Matt hadn't stepped out of bounds against BC, we'd have been in the playoffs. And I honestly think we'd have been just as much of a force to be reckoned with in the postseason in '23 as we had been in '22.

The Bob Chesney hire was a grand slam home run for Holy Cross. I have no doubt he will continue to make a name for himself at JMU and beyond.

[bonarae]

The value of an Ivy League degree could have been an effective defense against NIL$ and the transfer portal. There is definitely a chink in the Ivy League’s armor now due to the political turmoil/scandals on campus which have alienated many alumni and other potential employers.

For Ivy football, can they potentially go back ... way back ... to a NESCAC-type schedule? At least ETSU and UC Davis play in better conferences...

MUHAWKS, the Dayton Rule needs to be let go by either an NCAA amendment or a court ruling, a la the NIL. This can help the Ivies schedule-wise if the Dayton Rule is let go.

[NY Crusader 2010]

[QUOTE=Son of Eli;3188206]


Now that the free "Covid year" is gone ( I think??) correct me if I am wrong but The IVY has no redshirting and you are only allowed 4 years right? In the past and eve currently, the top IVY teams are legitimate top 25 teams sometimes better- They have several FBS quality players on their teams and the reason why is obvious- Plenty of kids who could go to Syracuse or Rutgers or wherever but see the value in a Yale, Harvard degree and the networking that comes with it. That will still remain the case but I guess what I am getting at is- You cannot transfer IN to an IVY as a post grad (nor would you) and who the hell would transfer out unless sire circumstances, so yes Eli, that is what I was getting at- There are "good" players getting 100-300k to transfer for 1-2 years. There will def be some who still see the tradition and honor of the Ivies, but the reason why the best Ivies are usually good is TALENT and that is FBS type talent and the reason they are there is for the "future"- but if the future can become the present, maybe not so bad to go to UVA, Boston College or even Holy Cross- althogh no FCS schools can truly offer any real NIL $$- but at least it becomes a decision now with that "political" stuff..

The Ivy League doesn't allow medical redshirting or allow graduate students to play sports. Two ridiculously archaic rules IMO. Especially since every Ivy League school not only has grad programs, but these programs are even more prestigious than the undergrad curriculum. If a Penn athlete with eligibility left manages to get into Wharton, shouldn't the school be encouraging that individual to attend there as opposed to leaving for another school with a business program that will allow that student to continue competing?

[MUHAWKS]

question on the CAA additions- anyone have a clue what schools voted AGAINST all the new additions that the old guard seems to hate? Like how did this even come to be if people hate it?

[rhowdyram]

The "implosion" of CAA football occurs if the northern schools leave to form America East Football. The ball is actually squarely in the court of UNH, URI, Bryant Maine and Albany in that regard. CAA is apparently trying hard to get Albany on as an all-sports member so the time window to act is probably very soon.

I think the window to do this closed today. I think Richmond would have been vital to the success of an all-sports CAA and CAA football affiliate schism. Now I think affiliates only won't be strong enough to get New Hampshire and Villanova to go along with the plan.

Going forward I think the best we can hope for are strong north and south divides with minimal crossover and the CAA doing away with the rule that anyone accepted into the conference at large automatically gets an invite to the football side of the house. It's a terrible rule and it's completely unnecessary. The rule wasn't in place when the Atlantic 10 sponsored the conference.

Obviously all of this is scheduled to change at a moment's notice.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think the window to do this closed today. I think Richmond would have been vital to the success of an all-sports CAA and CAA football affiliate schism. Now I think affiliates only won't be strong enough to get New Hampshire and Villanova to go along with the plan.

Going forward I think the best we can hope for are strong north and south divides with minimal crossover and the CAA doing away with the rule that anyone accepted into the conference at large automatically gets an invite to the football side of the house. It's a terrible rule and it's completely unnecessary. The rule wasn't in place when the Atlantic 10 sponsored the conference.

Obviously all of this is scheduled to change at a moment's notice.

Here's my thought: CAA is actively trying to get Albany to join for all sports and very well could look to poach Bryant in the near future. Why wouldn't the AE schools want to hedge against that AND simultaneously launch their own football conference? America East could easily invite Merrimack and Sacred Heart for all sports, maybe CCSU too. Here's your league:

1) UNH
2) Maine
3) Albany
4) Bryant
5) Merrimack
6) Sacred Heart
7) URI (football only)
8) CCSU

As excited as I am for the growth of PL football announced today, I'd actually be down for Holy Cross to be in that group in all sports if we could leverage the Hockey East schools help us with Men's Hockey affiliation there.

[rhowdyram]

In that scenario do you have Villanova staying in the CAA, moving to the Patriot, or other?

[UNHWildcat18]

I can understand why UNH would feel sad about about the departure of Richmond (on the heels of the departure of Delaware and JMU) but UNH v Holy Cross has gotten to be a nice little rivalry the last decade and nobody's called the HC football program a dumpster fire in quite a while. If Nova heads to the PL I'll start feeling a little bad for UNH.

Didn’t say HC was a dumpster fire(we’ll see how the next 5 years go without a rockstar QB and HC)
I stand by what I said, the PL is a dumpster conference most years, The pards couldn’t beat a depleted limping Delaware in the playoffs. Bucknell and G-town fan bases are non existent, it’s a one bid league with limitations put on by the clowns in charge. There must be a lot more going on behind the scenes at the CAA, (and positive changes at the PL like red shirts) for Richmond to downgrade.

Most Richmond fans aren’t even happy about the move, and they did it right after season ticket renewals closed this year lol.

[Pard4Life]

One down.
Two to go.

[FUBeAR]

Now that the free "Covid year" is gone ( I think??)
free “Covid year” is not gone for non-Ivies and Ivies should have 1 more year of kids playing their “4th” season in 2024, even though they graduated HS in 2020. It’s fading, but…here’s 1 hypothetical example…

’20 - 1st year at school - Covid year … coulda played in 11+ games…don’t matter - 0 years of eligibility used
’21 - Redshirt year - play in up to 4 games - 0 years of eligibility used
’22 - R-FR - 1 year of eligibility used
’23 - R-SO - 2 years of eligibility used
’24 - R-JR - 3 years of eligibility used
’25 - R-SR - 4 years of eligibility used
‘26 - R-SR+ - was injured in R-SR year, but granted medical waiver (“medical redshirt”) 5th year of eligibility by NCAA

7 years of college … not down the drain.

So…Covid “extra years” will be mostly out of the NCAA system after 2025, but not fully out until after ‘26.

[Pard4Life]

Patriot League quality of play and competition declined starting 2010. We may be on the upswing. General thoughts:

Holy Cross, Fordham, Lafayette = top tier, competitive out of league
Colgate = about to enter top tier
Lehigh = getting their act together
Bucknell, Georgetown = no hope

Team quality is cyclical. Colgate could bump down Holy Cross and Lehigh could jump up a tier or two. Add in Richmond you have a very competitive league with four, possibly five 'top tier' teams.

Flip side is this is also a more competitive landscape for talent - 25 years ago, some of these other regional programs did not exist or did not offer scholarships.

[MUHAWKS]

[QUOTE=MUHAWKS;3188210]
free “Covid year” is not gone. It’s fading, but…here’s 1 hypothetical example…

’20 - 1st year at school - Covid year … coulda played in 11+ games…don’t matter - 0 years of eligibility used
’21 - Redshirt year - play in up to 4 games - 0 years of eligibility used
’22 - R-FR - 1 year of eligibility used
’23 - R-SO - 2 years of eligibility used
’24 - R-JR - 3 years of eligibility used
’25 - R-SR - 4 years of eligibility used
‘26 - R-SR+ - was injured in R-SR year, but granted medical waiver (“medical redshirt”) 5th year of eligibility by NCAA

7 years of college … not down the drain.

yep- good call- so even for IVY kids with no redshirt- they can still have a PG NEXT year for those that entered 2020-- pretty simple math that I fkd up LOL

So…Covid “extra years” will be mostly out of the NCAA system after 2025, but not fully out until after ‘26.


yep- good call- so even for IVY kids with no redshirt- they can still have a PG NEXT year (2025) for those that entered 2020-- pretty simple math that I fkd up LOL

[Go...gate]

Honestly, how many games would Bucknell and Georgetown win in that alignment?

It will depend on the commitment each school chooses to make. I have far more confidence in Bucknell in that regard.

It is fish or cut bait time for the Hoya administration.

[aceinthehole]

Here's my thought: CAA is actively trying to get Albany to join for all sports and very well could look to poach Bryant in the near future. Why wouldn't the AE schools want to hedge against that AND simultaneously launch their own football conference? America East could easily invite Merrimack and Sacred Heart for all sports, maybe CCSU too. Here's your league:

1) UNH
2) Maine
3) Albany
4) Bryant
5) Merrimack
6) Sacred Heart
7) URI (football only)
8) CCSU

As excited as I am for the growth of PL football announced today, I'd actually be down for Holy Cross to be in that group in all sports if we could leverage the Hockey East schools help us with Men's Hockey affiliation there.

The reality is the AE simply isn't likely able to add any full-time member other than CCSU and LIU. Yes - URI, Merrimack, and Sacred Heart would absolutely join as the AE as an associate member for football, but that's it. Furthermore, the AE has to desperately keep Albany, or things get very ugly, very quickly for the rest of the league.

America East has been slow to expand and lost out on the opportunity to add growing private schools from the NEC like Monmouth, Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart, and Merrimack. Any of those 4 schools would have likely joined the AE if they were invited earlier, but they weren't asked. None of those schools are leaving the MAAC (paying exit/entry fees) now to join the AE.

The only reason Bryant was invited was because Hartford dropped to D-III, combined with the SBU departure, forced the AE to extend an invite.

If you look at mid-major conference realignment in the northeast region over the past 20 years or so, a clear pattern has emerged on the schools that each conference has added.

Patriot League (PL): Has lost just 1 full member – Fordham (A-10) – and has added 3 schools from the CAA, MAAC, and AE.
2013 – Boston University (AE)
2013 – Loyola (Md.) (MAAC)
2001 – American (CAA)

Coastal Athletic Association (CAA): Has added 13 teams from various conferences, including 6 directly from America East, and 2 each from the Southern Conference and Big South.
2023 – Campbell (Big South)
2022 – Hampton (MEAC)
2022 – North Carolina A&T (Big South)
2022 – Monmouth (MAAC)
2022 – Stony Brook (AE)
2014 – Elon (SoCon)
2013 – Charleston (SoCon)
2005 – Northeastern (AE)
2005 – Georgia St. (ASUN)
2001 – Hofstra (AE)
2001 – Towson (AE)
2001 – Drexel (AE)
2001 – Delaware (AE)

Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference (MAAC): The last 7 members were invited directly from the NEC.
2024 – Sacred Heart (NEC)
2024 – Merrimack (NEC)
2022 – Mt. St. Mary’s (NEC)
2013 – Monmouth (NEC)
2013 – Quinnipiac (NEC)
1997 – Rider (NEC)
1997 – Marist (NEC)

America East Conference (AE): 2 of the last 4 members were invited directly from the NEC; and 4 of the last 7 members were D-II programs or had just completed a transition to D-I.
2022 – Bryant (NEC)
2020 – NJIT (ASUN)
2013 – UMass-Lowell (D-II)
2003 – UMBC (NEC)
2001 – Albany (Independent/D-II)
2001 – Binghamton (Independent/D-II)
2001 – Stony Brook (D-II)

Northeast Conference (NEC): 7 of the last 10 members invited were private D-II institutions. The 3 public universities invited were established D-I programs.
2024 – Mercyhurst (D-II)
2024 – Chicago St. (Independent)
2023 – Le Moyne (D-II)
2022 – Stonehill (D-II)
2019 – Merrimack (D-II)
2008 – Bryant (D-II)
1999 – Sacred Heart (D-II)
1998 – UMBC (Big South)
1998 – Quinnipiac (D-II)
1997 – Central Connecticut (Mid-Con)

[KPSUL]

question on th e CAA additions- anyone have a clue what schools voted AGAINST all the new additions that the old guard seems to hate? Like how did this even come to be if people hate it?
CAA-F was created to look like a stand alone entity like the MVFC. However, there were two important differences: Unlike the MVFC, CAA and CAA-F shared the same Commissioner AND while charter CAA-F members, full sport and Football only, got a vote on admitting new CAA-F members, the Charter allowed for existing full sport CAA members the right to opt into CAA-F with no voting from CAA-F. So in the case of Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton and Campbell they were all first voted into the CAA by the full sport members (many of which had no football), and immediately opted into CAA-F with no voting required. So Richmond, Villanova, UNH, Maine, URI and Albany had absolutely no say in the matter. I believe when Monmouth was essentially selected to replace JMU as the the 12th CAA-F member there is a very good chance the football only CAA-F members would have OKed it, had they been able to vote. After that, I doubt they were happy about 3 more teams from VA and NC joining in quick succession.
So that leaves me with the same question you may have - why didn't Delaware and W&M, the two most prominent full sport members, stop this from happening. Apparently Delaware didn't care as they had one foot out the door or maybe their AD was too distracted by campaigning for FCS AD of the year. Perhaps W&M was greatly outnumbered by other CAA members focused on Basketball who didn't have a football team.

[Go...gate]

Stupid AF. I can’t believe Richmond is leaving for the dumpster fire that is the PL…..

Nice. Real class.

[aceinthehole]

CAA-F was created to look like a stand alone entity like the MVFC. However, there were two important differences: Unlike the MVFC, CAA and CAA-F shared the same Commissioner AND while charter CAA-F members, full sport and Football only, got a vote on admitting new CAA-F members, the Charter allowed for existing full sport CAA members the right to opt into CAA-F with no voting from CAA-F. So in the case of Monmouth, NC A&T, Hampton and Campbell they were all first voted into the CAA by the full sport members (many of which had no football), and immediately opted into CAA-F with no voting required. So Richmond, Villanova, UNH, Maine, URI and Albany had absolutely no say in the matter. I believe when Monmouth was essentially selected to replace JMU as the the 12th CAA-F member there is a very good chance the football only CAA-F members would have OKed it, had they been able to vote. After that, I doubt they were happy about 3 more teams from VA and NC joining in quick succession.
So that leaves me with the same question you may have - why didn't Delaware and W&M, the two most prominent full sport members, stop this from happening. Apparently Delaware didn't care as they had one foot out the door or maybe their AD was too distracted by campaigning for FCS AD of the year. Perhaps W&M was greatly outnumbered by other CAA members focused on Basketball who didn't have a football team.

You answered your own question. CAA "core membership" was their priority, period. W&M, Towson, Stony Brook, and Monmouth will always prioritize the needs of full-time CAA members over football members like UNH and Maine.

The fact that a "non-core" CAA Football team is leaving, has minimal impact on what W&M does next. Even if 'Nova joins the exodus to the Patriot, it is just another "non-core" CAA Football member leaving.

CAA members knew for years that JMU and UD had eyes on FBS and there was NOTHING the remaining members could do to stop it. They added teams to strengthen the "core" - full CAA members. The NCAA landscape is what caused JMU and UD to leave - not the existing membership or expansion.

The "non-core" CAA Football members from the AE, were always minority partners in this step up. They had no way to stop the additions of Elon, NCAT, Hampton, and NCAT - but they also got to add Bryant. Don't think anyone outside of Albany, Maine, and URI wanted to add them to CAAFB. It was a compromise to keep the schedule balanced as best as they could.

Even if Charleston leaves for the A-10, the CAA still has 12 members (8 football) and will likely add from the following (Fairfield, Albany, High Point, Howard). The league is in a stronger position than the AE and may even steal Albany!

1. Campbell (FB)
2. Drexel
3. Elon (FB)
4. Hampton (FB)
5. Hofstra
6. Monmouth (FB)
7. North Carolina A&T (FB)
8. UNC Wilmington
9. Northeastern
10. Stony Brook (FB)
11. Towson (FB)
12. William & Mary (FB)

[Sader87]

Institutionally, UR makes much more sense in the PL than the CAA.....as does Villanova. W&M being a state-school, makes their decision a little more complicated.

I like the addition of the Spiders for a variety of reasons......but I've also liked how the PL, as it has existed, has allowed HC to continue playing many long-standing Ivy opponents, CAA schools and FBS schools that it has played for decades.....I'd hate to see an expanded PL that only allowed a couple OOC games every year.

[UNHWildcat18]

Nice. Real class.

Eh, losing a 38 year conference mate to an inferior conference stings. I'm sure I will get over it.

[ElCid]

Relevant question, and someone may know and mentioned it at some point, but how do exit fees compare for truly exiting a conference as a full member, versus just an affiliate. If they differ at all. I'm sure they are spelled out in the governing documents, but I'm curious. That may impact W&M's decision compared to Richmond or Nova. Or, since these are seen as long term strategic decisions, it may not matter much to any of these schools.

[Sader87]

There really isn't much difference between the overall quality of play in football between the PL and the CAA today. Holy Cross could have beaten most CAA teams the last 4 or so years as could have teams like Lafayette and Fordham the last couple of years. The divide between the PL and the CAA today isn't like the divide you see at the FBS-level between say the Big 10 and the MAC.

[Go...gate]

Institutionally, UR makes much more sense in the PL than the CAA.....as does Villanova. W&M being a state-school, makes their decision a little more complicated.

I like the addition of the Spiders for a variety of reasons......but I've also liked how the PL, as it has existed, has allowed HC to continue playing many long-standing Ivy opponents, CAA schools and FBS schools that it has played for decades.....I'd hate to see an expanded PL that only allowed a couple OOC games every year.

Same for Colgate. I believe the OOC scheduling won't change very much, though.

[bonarae]

It will depend on the commitment each school chooses to make. I have far more confidence in Bucknell in that regard.

It is fish or cut bait time for the Hoya administration.

The Hoyas should be better off dropping the program in the next 5 to 10 years, unless Patty V over in the PFL retires from both MVFC and PFL and the next PFL commissioner convinces Georgetown to join that league to give football one last chance. xsighx

[The Boogie Down]

Maybe adding Hampton, NC A&T, Campbell, Bryant, Monmouth, and Campbell wasn't the best idea?

Hmmm... I feel like someone else has been saying this for nearly 2 years now... xchinscratchx xchinscratchx xchinscratchx
Hmmm indeed.

[The Boogie Down]

Well, after roughly 700 threads on this board about Richmond/Nova/W&M joining the PL it finally happened (with one). We did it!

To be honest, even while seeing the Big Southish for the sinking ship it is, I never thought Richmond would be the first to go. In fact, I wasn't sure Richmond would go at all. My money had always been on Villanova. And even after exchanging messages w/Nova grads I only saw that as 25% possibility. The one thing I did feel positive about though was that if-if Nova went, THEN Richmond had decent odds of following. We'll see if that theory now works in reverse. (Maybe we're just another 700 threads away-lol)

[Go...gate]

I am very pleased to learn of Richmond coming on board for football. I believe UR greatly strengthens the conference.

[The Boogie Down]

I am very pleased to learn of Richmond coming on board for football. I believe UR greatly strengthens the conference.

Same here, Gg! And apologies for knocking the hell out of the Patsies for all these years. It's taken a while but the league is finally coming around. Adding the full 63 scholarships and allowing for non-medical redshirts has truly moved the needle. Richmond is proof. Like I said, my sights had always been set on Villanova so this was a happy surprise. Now, if we end up getting both? Wow, then we'll see who the real "dumpster fire" is-lol

[caribbeanhen]

Wow.

They are jumping without the redshirt restriction being lifted. CAA-FB became too bloated.

The only reason they added all those teams was to try and salvage the conference in some way, shape or form.

I’m betting the self-proclaimed beautiful people knew Delaware was leaving before the big expansion

[caribbeanhen]

Chesney was much more than just Sluka, CaribbeanHen. He’s a fantastic coach

to be perfectly honest, my comment was structured to provoke response

for C H to even comment on a Coach and say he is a “good coach” probably means he’s a great coach.

but I will never miss an opportunity to point out that “special players” win the games. When those special players leave, some wins leave with him and it’s not because the coach got dumber.

This is why recruiting is such a big business…. Coaches know

and I’ll say this, KC Keeler is the perfect example of CH logic

[gravalico]

Didn’t say HC was a dumpster fire(we’ll see how the next 5 years go without a rockstar QB and HC)
I stand by what I said, the PL is a dumpster conference most years, The pards couldn’t beat a depleted limping Delaware in the playoffs. Bucknell and G-town fan bases are non existent, it’s a one bid league with limitations put on by the clowns in charge. There must be a lot more going on behind the scenes at the CAA, (and positive changes at the PL like red shirts) for Richmond to downgrade.

Most Richmond fans aren’t even happy about the move, and they did it right after season ticket renewals closed this year lol.Where to begin with this post? First of all maybe save your smack talk for a season when you didn't have 5 loses. And Lafayette was absolutely handling Delaware until our starting QB went down with a broken ankle in the first half.

But forget all that, let's talk about the "dumpster fire" that is the Patriot League. No doubt the CAA WAS the cream of the FCS crop. No doubt the PL lagged far behind much to the frustration of its loyal fans. Don't look now but it would appear the PLs painfully measured approach to growth just might have been the correct course of action. We weren't flashy or exciting but we were consistent. We have standards by which we stood. You had to fit the profile to even be considered (UNH isn't even close by the way). Perhaps we clung to certain guiding principles a little too long. The scholarship limitations, the red shirt situation; those were real impediments to growth rooted in antiquated desires to be the Ivy League-lite. As you may recall we used to not attend the national playoffs. But those are obstacles of the past. The league now has the same level of scholarships. Effective next year we now allow for non-medical red shirts. This dumpster fire has largely stuck to its most important ideals while evolving all the while. Now we are a league steeped in tradition whose members still represent some of the finest colleges and universities in the country. And, seemingly, we are about to embark on a new chapter rooted in winning at the highest fcs levels. A chapter which compliments our history of consistency and rich football tradition very nicely

And where is the much vaunted CAA? You have no standards. You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Are there any Bucknell fans posting at AGS?

[Tribe4SF]

Are there any Bucknell fans posting at AGS?

There are no Bucknell fans... period.

[Franks Tanks]

There really isn't much difference between the overall quality of play in football between the PL and the CAA today. Holy Cross could have beaten most CAA teams the last 4 or so years as could have teams like Lafayette and Fordham the last couple of years. The divide between the PL and the CAA today isn't like the divide you see at the FBS-level between say the Big 10 and the MAC.

Agree, especially since two of the CAA’s best programs just left. PL teams will likely still struggle against the likes on UNH and Nova, but would compete well against the bulk of the CAA. Totally agree it’s more like the SEC vs. ACC than SEC vs. the Sunbelt when comparing the current CAA to the PL.

[Wolffan]

Didn’t say HC was a dumpster fire(we’ll see how the next 5 years go without a rockstar QB and HC)
I stand by what I said, the PL is a dumpster conference most years, The pards couldn’t beat a depleted limping Delaware in the playoffs. Bucknell and G-town fan bases are non existent, it’s a one bid league with limitations put on by the clowns in charge. There must be a lot more going on behind the scenes at the CAA, (and positive changes at the PL like red shirts) for Richmond to downgrade.

Most Richmond fans aren’t even happy about the move, and they did it right after season ticket renewals closed this year lol. LOL Richmond didn't see PL as a dumpster fire (rational folks leave a dumpster fire and head to a better place).

May be time to re-examine your position vis a vis the Patriot League.

[mainejeff]

William & Mary fans are putting on a brave face but they are ****ting their pants behind the scenes right now. No way that the Ivy wannabes are looking into the CAA crystal ball and liking what they see. I'm sure that their administrators are working on a logical solution which is probably full membership in the SoCon (my bet) or Patriot (less likely).

[Sitting Bull]

You answered your own question. CAA "core membership" was their priority, period. W&M, Towson, Stony Brook, and Monmouth will always prioritize the needs of full-time CAA members over football members like UNH and Maine.

The fact that a "non-core" CAA Football team is leaving, has minimal impact on what W&M does next. Even if 'Nova joins the exodus to the Patriot, it is just another "non-core" CAA Football member leaving.

CAA members knew for years that JMU and UD had eyes on FBS and there was NOTHING the remaining members could do to stop it. They added teams to strengthen the "core" - full CAA members. The NCAA landscape is what caused JMU and UD to leave - not the existing membership or expansion.

The "non-core" CAA Football members from the AE, were always minority partners in this step up. They had no way to stop the additions of Elon, NCAT, Hampton, and NCAT - but they also got to add Bryant. Don't think anyone outside of Albany, Maine, and URI wanted to add them to CAAFB. It was a compromise to keep the schedule balanced as best as they could.

Even if Charleston leaves for the A-10, the CAA still has 12 members (8 football) and will likely add from the following (Fairfield, Albany, High Point, Howard). The league is in a stronger position than the AE and may even steal Albany!

1. Campbell (FB)
2. Drexel
3. Elon (FB)
4. Hampton (FB)
5. Hofstra
6. Monmouth (FB)
7. North Carolina A&T (FB)
8. UNC Wilmington
9. Northeastern
10. Stony Brook (FB)
11. Towson (FB)
12. William & Mary (FB)

Nailed it. No conference wants to be controlled by affiliates. The CAA, despite the usual suspects predicting disaster, did a nice job - about the best they could without becoming a geographic mess - to solidify the league.

[Sitting Bull]

William & Mary fans are putting on a brave face but they are ****ting their pants behind the scenes right now. No way that the Ivy wannabes are looking into the CAA crystal ball and liking what they see. I'm sure that their administrators are working on a logical solution which is probably full membership in the SoCon (my bet) or Patriot (less likely).

No, they’re not. You may wish that but reality is the fans that are unloading in their Depends are the Spider fans who correctly see this as a downgrade of their football program. And no offense to the PL, it’s just reality.

UR made a point of stating they want to hold on to our annual football game - I think Tribe fans agree. If it doesn’t work, we have a terrific new rivalry with Elon. It’s actually more important to Richmond to keep the game on the schedule than it is for W&M. They will need some competition south of the Philadelphia to keep local interest.

So nothing really changes for W&M. We’re in a good position within a league the majority agrees is our best fit among options. Our AD is in the corner of actually being a leader in improving the current conference.

[mainejeff]

No, they’re not. You may wish that but reality is the fans that are unloading in their Depends are the Spider fans who correctly see this as a downgrade of their football program. And no offense to the PL, it’s just reality.

UR made a point of stating they want to hold on to our annual football game - I think Tribe fans agree. If it doesn’t work, we have a terrific new rivalry with Elon. It’s actually more important to Richmond to keep the game on the schedule than it is for W&M. They will need some competition south of the Philadelphia to keep local interest.

So nothing really changes for W&M. We’re in a good position within a league the majority agrees is our best fit among options. Our AD is in the corner of actually being a leader in improving the current conference.

Will you say that after Villanova moves their football program to the Patriot? Who is the "majority"? I see fans with varying opinions on the W&M board....nevermind all the other schools involved. You better hope that you can get Albany to join the CAA for all sports because short of that.....I see a very bleak future for your conference.

[mainejeff]

Nailed it. No conference wants to be controlled by affiliates. The CAA, despite the usual suspects predicting disaster, did a nice job - about the best they could without becoming a geographic mess - to solidify the league.

A lot of people are "hoping" for one thing or another to happen.....everyone has skin in the game.

[crusader11]

Agree, especially since two of the CAA’s best programs just left. PL teams will likely still struggle against the likes on UNH and Nova, but would compete well against the bulk of the CAA. Totally agree it’s more like the SEC vs. ACC than SEC vs. the Sunbelt when comparing the current CAA to the PL.

+1

Going to be a tough pill for the old guard of the CAA to swallow, but it's the truth.

Put it this way, last year the CAA was closer to the PL than it was to the Big Sky or Valley.

Sagarin isn't perfect, but we'll use it for this exercise. The CAA's rating last season was 46.83. The PL was 43.53. Take Richmond (49.33) and add them to the PL, and that gap shrinks even further.

[crusader11]

No, they’re not. You may wish that but reality is the fans that are unloading in their Depends are the Spider fans who correctly see this as a downgrade of their football program. And no offense to the PL, it’s just reality.


That was true several years ago when JMU, Delaware, and ODU (and let's throw Richmond into this category now, shall we?) were in the CAA. But losing these four programs and bringing in Hampton, Campbell, NC A&T, Bryant, and Monmouth is problematic.

The CAA in 2025 is a middling FCS league, IMO. If Villanova is to depart, this league is in danger in dropping behind the PL and SoCon.

[Sitting Bull]

Will you say that after Villanova moves their football program to the Patriot? Who is the "majority"? I see fans with varying opinions on the W&M board....nevermind all the other schools involved. You better hope that you can get Albany to join the CAA for all sports because short of that.....I see a very bleak future for your conference.

That could happen as well. We don’t play Villanova annually and when we do, it’s only a football relationship. So again, it won’t impact much in my opinion. It doesn’t change why the CAA remains top option.

If Richmond and Villanova were moving into a higher level environment, that would be different. I think that would be an Issue for W&M. But they’re not (assuming Villanova makes same move). They’re both being viewed as downgrading.

I think maybe you may be the one more concerned. Gone now is your dream of those two moving into an AEast football arrangement. And if UAlbany flips…

[mainejeff]

That could happen as well. We don’t play Villanova annually and when we do, it’s only a football relationship. So again, it won’t impact much in my opinion. It doesn’t change why the CAA remains top option.

If Richmond and Villanova were moving into a higher level environment, that would be different. I think that would be an Issue for W&M. But they’re not (assuming Villanova makes same move). They’re both being viewed as downgrading.

I think maybe you may be the one more concerned. Gone now is your dream of those two moving into an AEast football arrangement. And if UAlbany flips…

AE has had numerous opportunities to sponsor football.....but schools like BU and Vermont killed that idea. Being a Maine fan.....we will still be playing football....somewhere. I would honestly rather play regional opponents even if it is teams like Sacred Heart and Merrimack....than the current Southern grouping (excluding Richmond and W&M) in the CAA. This isn't the league that once was in football.....personally I hope it implodes so we can get a more regional schedule and develop rivalries on an annual basis.

[Sitting Bull]

That was true several years ago when JMU, Delaware, and ODU (and let's throw Richmond into this category now, shall we?) were in the CAA. But losing these four programs and bringing in Hampton, Campbell, NC A&T, Bryant, and Monmouth is problematic.

The CAA in 2025 is a middling FCS league, IMO. If Villanova is to depart, this league is in danger in dropping behind the PL and SoCon.

You’re assuming Richmond (and Villanova) maintain their level of football chops. I think the concerns, at least among Richmond fans, is the quality of Spider football will drop. Local interest certainly will. I think that’s just as likely than assuming these two programs maintain their quality in the PL.

I don’t disagree that the CAA has had good teams that have moved on - all have moved up though not in Richmond’s case. And even the newcomers that keep getting mentioned as watering down the CAA- Monmouth, Bryant - have been competing and in some cases, pounding PL opponents in recent OOC games.

[Sitting Bull]

AE has had numerous opportunities to sponsor football.....but schools like BU and Vermont killed that idea. Being a Maine fan.....we will still be playing football....somewhere. I would honestly rather play regional opponents even if it is teams like Sacred Heart and Merrimack....than the current Southern grouping (excluding Richmond and W&M) in the CAA. This isn't the league hat once was in football.....personally I hope it implodes so we can get a more regional schedule and develop rivalries on an annual basis.

That’s fine and if Maine wanted to leave CAA FB, the impact on the CAA at this point would be zero. I like having Maine, UNH and URI in the league but they’re affiliates, like Richmond. The CAA isn’t going to implode at this point now that there are 8 core, all sports members / possibly 9 if UAlbany joins.

Affiliates aren’t driving the CAA bus.

[Go Green]

The value of an Ivy League degree could have been an effective defense against NIL$ and the transfer portal. There is definitely a chink in the Ivy League’s armor now due to the political turmoil/scandals on campus which have alienated many alumni and other potential employers.

Merely because Columbia is having issues doesn't mean that the entire league is being dragged down.

Honestly, Dartmouth had some of its best years in the late 1960s and early 1970s while other Ivy schools were dealing with nonstop protests.

[IslandPard]

Don't look now, but with the additional of Richmond and redshirts, the PL just may become one of the premier leagues in FCS. Yeah, I said it! And the traditional!!!

Recruiting has already change the last few years under Troxell with us winning many head-to-heads over FBS and CAA schools. I only see that improving.

[FUBeAR]

That’s fine and if Maine wanted to leave CAA FB, the impact on the CAA at this point would be zero. I like having Maine, UNH and URI in the league but they’re affiliates, like Richmond. The CAA isn’t going to implode at this point now that there are 8 core, all sports members / possibly 9 if UAlbany joins.

Affiliates aren’t driving the CAA bus.
So, you like having this line-up?…

CAA - Current and ongoing (expected) full members


School
Location
Football
Joined
Enrollment
Type
Endowment


Campbell (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_University)
Buies Creek, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buies_Creek,_North_Carolina)C
2023
5,622
Private
$165M


Elon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University)
Elon, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon,_North_Carolina)C
2014
6,991
Private
$365.6M


Hampton (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_University)
Hampton, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton,_Virginia)A
2022
3,516
Private
$280.6M


Monmouth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_University)
West Long Branch, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Long_Branch,_New_Jersey)NJ
2022
5,675
Private
$108.5M


NC A&T (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_A%26T_State_University)
Greensboro, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro,_North_Carolina)C
2023
13,3323
Public
$178M


Stony Brook (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook_University)
Stony Brook, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook,_New_York)Y
2013
26,782
Public
$360.2M


Towson
Towson, M (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towson,_Maryland)D
2001
22,923
Public
$87.8M


William & Mary (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_William_%26_Mary)
Williamsburg, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Virginia)A
1979
8,817
Public
$1.3B



…looks a bit like Bill, Mary, and the Big South Zombies.

Oddly, that was the name of the DooWop band that played FUBeAR’s Sr. Prom.

[caribbeanhen]

Don't look now, but with the additional of Richmond and redshirts, the PL just may become one of the premier leagues in FCS. Yeah, I said it! And the traditional!!!

Recruiting has already change the last few years under Troxell with us winning many head-to-heads over FBS and CAA schools. I only see that improving.

are you a fisherman by chance?

If so, Google “a speck in to sea”

[Sitting Bull]

So, you like having this line-up?…

CAA - Current full members


School
Location
Football
Joined
Enrollment
Type
Endowment


Campbell (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_University)
Buies Creek, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buies_Creek,_North_Carolina)C
2023
5,622
Private
$165M


Elon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University)
Elon, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon,_North_Carolina)C
2014
6,991
Private
$365.6M


Hampton (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_University)
Hampton, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton,_Virginia)A
2022
3,516
Private
$280.6M


Monmouth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_University)
West Long Branch, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Long_Branch,_New_Jersey)NJ
2022
5,675
Private
$108.5M


NC A&T (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_A%26T_State_University)
Greensboro, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro,_North_Carolina)C
2023
13,3323
Public
$178M


Stony Brook (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook_University)
Stony Brook, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook,_New_York)Y
2013
26,782
Public
$360.2M


Towson
Towson, M (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towson,_Maryland)D
2001
22,923
Public
$87.8M


William & Mary (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_William_%26_Mary)
Williamsburg, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Virginia)A
1979
8,817
Public
$1.3B



…looks a bit like Bill, Mary, and the Big South Zombies.

Oddly, that was the name of the DooWop band that played FUBeAR’s Sr. Prom.

I don’t see an issue, no. What I see are opponents that are within a 4 hour drive except Stony Brook. If you listed the same for PL and So Con, we wouldn’t have anyone within 5 hours outside VMI and Richmond who we play - or will play- OOC anyway,

Furman and VMI are good games regarding So Con. But the remaining So Con teams wouldn’t move the needle in fan interest at W&M. And we know the PL, the entire league is basically north of Philly and is a downgrade in every major sport.

And you’re also ignoring the all sport situation at W&M which then adds UNCW, Charleston, Northeastern, Drexel and Hofstra - all over time have become interesting rivals for the Tribe fanbase. Because of past games, Hofstra is now one of the bigger draws in Williamsburg, bad blood but in a good way.

So Con basically conceded North Carolina to the CAA. We have four members in the State now. I don’t consider any of them a problem, quite the opposite for us. It’s good for W&M, I’m certainly expecting Campbell and NC A&T will become of growing interest, on level with Elon and UNCW.

[Son of Eli]

Merely because Columbia is having issues doesn't mean that the entire league is being dragged down.

Honestly, Dartmouth had some of its best years in the late 1960s and early 1970s while other Ivy schools were dealing with nonstop protests.


its hardly just Columbia. There been well documented issues such as Harvard and PENN’s presidents for instance. Cornell has had multiple well documented antisemitic issues involving students and faculty. I agree that of the 8 schools Dartmouth seems to be handing things best.

[Pards Rule]

It will depend on the commitment each school chooses to make. I have far more confidence in Bucknell in that regard.

It is fish or cut bait time for the Hoya administration.

Gate, honestly, I think its time for Hoyas to cut the line in PL. Sad but true. BTW here on Long Beach Island a house right on the Blvd has hoisted a Raider flag for the season! Ive got to stop and say hello if I see them outside. It looks like a new logo? Prominent differennt C and like enclosed by a polygon?

[rhowdyram]

You answered your own question. CAA "core membership" was their priority, period. W&M, Towson, Stony Brook, and Monmouth will always prioritize the needs of full-time CAA members over football members like UNH and Maine.

The fact that a "non-core" CAA Football team is leaving, has minimal impact on what W&M does next. Even if 'Nova joins the exodus to the Patriot, it is just another "non-core" CAA Football member leaving.

CAA members knew for years that JMU and UD had eyes on FBS and there was NOTHING the remaining members could do to stop it. They added teams to strengthen the "core" - full CAA members. The NCAA landscape is what caused JMU and UD to leave - not the existing membership or expansion.

The "non-core" CAA Football members from the AE, were always minority partners in this step up. They had no way to stop the additions of Elon, NCAT, Hampton, and NCAT - but they also got to add Bryant. Don't think anyone outside of Albany, Maine, and URI wanted to add them to CAAFB. It was a compromise to keep the schedule balanced as best as they could.

Even if Charleston leaves for the A-10, the CAA still has 12 members (8 football) and will likely add from the following (Fairfield, Albany, High Point, Howard). The league is in a stronger position than the AE and may even steal Albany!

1. Campbell (FB)
2. Drexel
3. Elon (FB)
4. Hampton (FB)
5. Hofstra
6. Monmouth (FB)
7. North Carolina A&T (FB)
8. UNC Wilmington
9. Northeastern
10. Stony Brook (FB)
11. Towson (FB)
12. William & Mary (FB)

There was another way of doing things, one that worked a whole lot better in the league's recent past. When the conference played under the Atlantic 10 banner teams admitted into the main conference didn't get automatic entry into football as well, they had to make a separate case to be admitted to the football side of the house. Entry into CAA proper never should have extended an automatic invitation to CAA football, and that terrible way of doing things is leading to the problems the CAA is facing now.

[crusader11]

I have not seen this mentioned so will ask the question -- With Richmond departing after the 2024 season, will the CAA take away their ability to win the conference championship?

[rhowdyram]

Nailed it. No conference wants to be controlled by affiliates. The CAA, despite the usual suspects predicting disaster, did a nice job - about the best they could without becoming a geographic mess - to solidify the league.

No conference should be controlled by affiliates, I agree. The problem is in essence the CAA Football conference is being controlled by non-football playing affiliates, which is causing all of these problems. They should have been completely separate entities with only a logo and league office in common.

[IslandPard]

are you a fisherman by chance?

If so, Google “a speck in to sea”

I am not but I do know the "speck". My family owned a fish market back in the day connecting commercial fisherman with fulton.

[Go Green]

its hardly just Columbia. There been well documented issues such as Harvard and PENN’s presidents for instance. Cornell has had multiple well documented antisemitic issues involving students and faculty. .

Be that as it may, the lion's share of bad press regarding protests and student unrest among Ivy schools has been garnered by the... you know... Lions.

[aceinthehole]

No conference should be controlled by affiliates, I agree. The problem is in essence the CAA Football conference is being controlled by non-football playing affiliates, which is causing all of these problems. They should have been completely separate entities with only a logo and league office in common.

You want "Hockey East" version of FCS football. Can't disagree, but I think the CAA was smarter for leveraging their administration of the football league to benefit their "core" or full membership.

Blame UNH and Maine for putting their FB fortune in a lot with CAA and Southern partners that don't value their them. UNH and Maine have always needed the CAA FB much more than the CAA "core" ever needed them.

Don't forget that URI actually joined the NEC for football because they saw the direction of the league was moving away from New England. They only returned and stayed when the CAA added Stony Brook and Albany to rebuild a Northeast footprint.

As much as UNH, Maine, and URI complain about trips to play Campbell, Elon, NCAT, and Hampton - but those 4 schools (all CAA core members) have no interest in playing in New England anyway.

If Albany moves over to the CAA full time, it won't change football for UNH and Maine, but their full-time conference drops to 8 schools and they lose the AQ in baseball, softball, etc.

The CAA has stolen from the AE for years and that's a fact. FCS football isn't important enough to drive the larger realignments going on and UNH and Maine are not valued due to geography and demographics.

[crusader11]

You want "Hockey East" version of FCS football. Can't disagree, but I think the CAA was smarter for leveraging their administration of the football league to benefit their "core" or full membership.

Blame UNH and Maine for putting their FB fortune in a lot with CAA and Southern partners that don't value their them. UNH and Maine have always needed the CAA FB much more than the CAA "core" ever needed them.

Don't forget that URI actually joined the NEC for football because they saw the direction of the league was moving away from New England. They only returned and stayed when the CAA added Stony Brook and Albany to rebuild a Northeast footprint.

As much as UNH, Maine, and URI complain about trips to play Campbell, Elon, NCAT, and Hampton - but those 4 schools (all CAA core members) have no interest in playing in New England anyway.

If Albany moves over to the CAA full time, it won't change football for UNH and Maine, but their full-time conference drops to 8 schools and they lose the AQ in baseball, softball, etc.

The CAA has stolen from the AE for years and that's a fact. FCS football isn't important enough to drive the larger realignments going on and UNH and Maine are not valued due to geography and demographics.

This is all correct.

I highly doubt we see UNH, Maine, and URI (and Bryant, for that matter, despite just joining the CAA for football) playing CAA football in five years. It doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I have not seen this mentioned so will ask the question -- With Richmond departing after the 2024 season, will the CAA take away their ability to win the conference championship?


....DON'T KNOW....BUT DELAWARE'S SOFTBALL TEAM....WAS SET TA HOST CAA TOURNEY THIS SEASON.....BUT CAA MOVED IT DOWN SOUTH........'CAUSE WE'RE MOVIN' UP.....xsighx....BRAWK

[aceinthehole]

This is all correct.

I highly doubt we see UNH, Maine, and URI (and Bryant, for that matter, despite just joining the CAA for football) playing CAA football in five years. It doesn't make sense for a number of reasons.

Quite possibly.

And another factor is UNH and Maine value their Hockey East membership more than the AE or CAA Football. URI basketball in the A-1O is a lot more important than FCS football. Bryant had great timing and good luck getting in this league as a compromise, but their addition was a large part of this pushback from UR and possibly 'Nova.

[Bill]

As a somewhat long-time PL poster, I say "welcome" to Richmond, and also say "Thank you". You are making our league significantly better, and more importantly - you've given us an AGS thread with juice that we PL posters didn't have to hijack from some other conference.

[rhowdyram]

Quite possibly.

And another factor is UNH and Maine value their Hockey East membership more than the AE or CAA Football. URI basketball in the A-1O is a lot more important than FCS football. Bryant had great timing and good luck getting in this league as a compromise, but their addition was a large part of this pushback from UR and possibly 'Nova.

I don't understand the last line of thinking. Richmond was so pissed they might need to make an extra trip north to Bryant that they abandoned every school in their area to play exclusively in the north? They were so pissed about the quality of Bryant that they decided to join up with Georgetown?

The pushback was Richmond, as an affiliate member, felt they had no control over the membership of the football conference they were in because CAA proper was letting anyone and everyone into CAA football. Maybe the conference doesn't value their associate members? That's fine and that's their right. But dick programs around long enough and eventually other options look better.

The question for the New England schools is how pissed are we about the lack of control we have about who we play football with and do we have anywhere acceptable to go? Richmond could say we'll take our ball and go to the Patriot League, play football with schools that fit a similar academic profile, and never have to pay for Flo Sports again. Villanova might feel the same outside of the Flo Sports thing. The New England schools might just be stuck where we are.

[Gater]

The Patriot League has not played a season with expanded roster sizes (happening this year), 63 scholarships (happened last year?), and redshirting (happening this year).

Redshirting and bigger rosters are huge changes.

Richmond will play in a version of the PL we've never seen before.

[Go...gate]

Gate, honestly, I think its time for Hoyas to cut the line in PL. Sad but true. BTW here on Long Beach Island a house right on the Blvd has hoisted a Raider flag for the season! Ive got to stop and say hello if I see them outside. It looks like a new logo? Prominent differennt C and like enclosed by a polygon?

Yes. The new logo leaves something to be desired.

[aceinthehole]

Rhody - You are correct, the bottom line was that the affiliate member UR didn't like the direction and additional of multiple new members (including Bryant) and chose to join a league with schools they consider close 'peers."

This wasn't about just football and travel - it was about conference associates. The neighbors changed.

Richmond made a decision because they valued joining Fordham, Georgetown, Holy Cross, and Lehigh over Bryant, NCAT, Hampton and Monmouth. It's honestly not that hard to see why. Think of it as "old money" vs. "new money" if you will.

Yes, as long as the New England teams don't mind the direction and membership of the Football league being driven by CAA full membership, they can stay as long as they want.

Or they can take their ball and build their own regional conference that may be a "step-down" from the CAA and even PL.

[Professor]

Rhody - You are correct, the bottom line was that the affiliate member UR didn't like the direction and additional of multiple new members (including Bryant) and chose to join a league with schools they consider close 'peers."

This wasn't about just football and travel - it was about conference associates. The neighbors changed.

Richmond made a decision because they valued joining Fordham, Georgetown, Holy Cross, and Lehigh over Bryant, NCAT, Hampton and Monmouth. It's honestly not that hard to see why. Think of it as "old money" vs. "new money" if you will.

Yes, as long as the New England teams don't mind the direction and membership of the Football league being driven by CAA full membership, they can stay as long as they want.

Or they can take their ball and build their own regional conference that may be a "step-down" from the CAA and even PL.

But why vote em in , if you didn't want them in the 1st place

[crusader11]

But why vote em in , if you didn't want them in the 1st place

Maybe Richmond didn't vote them in.

[Go...gate]

Gate, honestly, I think its time for Hoyas to cut the line in PL. Sad but true. BTW here on Long Beach Island a house right on the Blvd has hoisted a Raider flag for the season! Ive got to stop and say hello if I see them outside. It looks like a new logo? Prominent differennt C and like enclosed by a polygon?

I would much prefer to see Georgetown step up in some way as to football.

[aceinthehole]

But why vote em in , if you didn't want them in the 1st place

Richmond didn't vote them in. (Neither did Albany, Maine, UNH,, URI, and 'Nova).

That the point - full CAA members voted to offer Monmouth, Campbell, NCAT, and Hampton membership - joining CAAFB was automatic once they joined the CAA as full members.

The non-core members only voted to add Bryant. And let's be honest, they threw that bone to the AE members because of the other additions that were made.

[rhowdyram]

Right. Bryant was the concession to the New England/Northeast schools to try to keep down travel costs.

[aceinthehole]

To be clear, the full CAA membership voted and wanted to add Monmouth, Campbell, Hampton, and NCAT as full CAA members (basketball and Olympic sports). As a result of this membership, they were added to the football league without further voting.

So if Richmond, Villanova, Albany, UNH, Maine and URI don't like the additional football teams, they had ZERO ability to stop it. Clearly UR decided this new group of schools was not to its liking and joined the PL. Villanova may do the same, or they may be satisfied with the new makeup.

Only Bryant was voted on by CAA Football members and while I don't have inside knowledge, I think this was something that was supported to appease the AE schools and URI.

[DFW HOYA]

I would much prefer to see Georgetown step up in some way as to football.

Without scholarship support, which makes little financial sense at this point, how should they go about doing that? NIL?

[Professor]

So, you like having this line-up?…

CAA - Current and ongoing (expected) full members


School
Location
Football
Joined
Enrollment
Type
Endowment


Campbell (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_University)
Buies Creek, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buies_Creek,_North_Carolina)C
2023
5,622
Private
$165M


Elon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University)
Elon, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon,_North_Carolina)C
2014
6,991
Private
$365.6M


Hampton (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_University)
Hampton, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton,_Virginia)A
2022
3,516
Private
$280.6M


Monmouth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_University)
West Long Branch, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Long_Branch,_New_Jersey)NJ
2022
5,675
Private
$108.5M


NC A&T (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_A%26T_State_University)
Greensboro, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro,_North_Carolina)C
2023
13,3323
Public
$178M


Stony Brook (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook_University)
Stony Brook, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook,_New_York)Y
2013
26,782
Public
$360.2M


Towson
Towson, M (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towson,_Maryland)D
2001
22,923
Public
$87.8M


William & Mary (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_William_%26_Mary)
Williamsburg, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Virginia)A
1979
8,817
Public
$1.3B



…looks a bit like Bill, Mary, and the Big South Zombies.

Oddly, that was the name of the DooWop band that played FUBeAR’s Sr. Prom.

As long as the majority of this group is together , then the CAA will survive

- - - Updated - - -


So, you like having this line-up?…

CAA - Current and ongoing (expected) full members


School
Location
Football
Joined
Enrollment
Type
Endowment


Campbell (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_University)
Buies Creek, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buies_Creek,_North_Carolina)C
2023
5,622
Private
$165M


Elon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_University)
Elon, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon,_North_Carolina)C
2014
6,991
Private
$365.6M


Hampton (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_University)
Hampton, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton,_Virginia)A
2022
3,516
Private
$280.6M


Monmouth (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_University)
West Long Branch, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Long_Branch,_New_Jersey)NJ
2022
5,675
Private
$108.5M


NC A&T (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_A%26T_State_University)
Greensboro, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro,_North_Carolina)C
2023
13,3323
Public
$178M


Stony Brook (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook_University)
Stony Brook, N (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stony_Brook,_New_York)Y
2013
26,782
Public
$360.2M


Towson
Towson, M (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towson,_Maryland)D
2001
22,923
Public
$87.8M


William & Mary (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_William_%26_Mary)
Williamsburg, V (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Virginia)A
1979
8,817
Public
$1.3B



…looks a bit like Bill, Mary, and the Big South Zombies.

Oddly, that was the name of the DooWop band that played FUBeAR’s Sr. Prom.

As long as the majority of this group is together , then the CAA will survive

[KPSUL]

Where to begin with this post? First of all maybe save your smack talk for a season when you didn't have 5 loses. And Lafayette was absolutely handling Delaware until our starting QB went down with a broken ankle in the first half.

But forget all that, let's talk about the "dumpster fire" that is the Patriot League. No doubt the CAA WAS the cream of the FCS crop. No doubt the PL lagged far behind much to the frustration of its loyal fans. Don't look now but it would appear the PLs painfully measured approach to growth just might have been the correct course of action. We weren't flashy or exciting but we were consistent. We have standards by which we stood. You had to fit the profile to even be considered (UNH isn't even close by the way). Perhaps we clung to certain guiding principles a little too long. The scholarship limitations, the red shirt situation; those were real impediments to growth rooted in antiquated desires to be the Ivy League-lite. As you may recall we used to not attend the national playoffs. But those are obstacles of the past. The league now has the same level of scholarships. Effective next year we now allow for non-medical red shirts. This dumpster fire has largely stuck to its most important ideals while evolving all the while. Now we are a league steeped in tradition whose members still represent some of the finest colleges and universities in the country. And, seemingly, we are about to embark on a new chapter rooted in winning at the highest fcs levels. A chapter which compliments our history of consistency and rich football tradition very nicely

And where is the much vaunted CAA? You have no standards. You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

Who is the "we" in your post? Perhaps I have not been paying close enough attention, but when did Alcorn State join the Patriot League?

[Go...gate]

Without scholarship support, which makes little financial sense at this point, how should they go about doing that? NIL?

Spend the money and fund scholarships. The rest of us are doing it.

[taper]

4D chess conspiracy shower thought:
It's well known some university presidents hate football and would drop it as soon as those pesky alumni see the light.
The Patriot League commissioner said they'd probably cease operations rather than pay players. (which is inevitable, no matter how much fans complain.)

Richmond's president wants to drop football. By moving just that to the PL, when the PL folds the prez can announce that with the massive new athletic costs and no home for FB, we unfortunately have no choice but to drop it. All while shedding crocodile tears.

[crusader11]

4D chess conspiracy shower thought:
It's well known some university presidents hate football and would drop it as soon as those pesky alumni see the light.
The Patriot League commissioner said they'd probably cease operations rather than pay players. (which is inevitable, no matter how much fans complain.)

Richmond's president wants to drop football. By moving just that to the PL, when the PL folds the prez can announce that with the massive new athletic costs and no home for FB, we unfortunately have no choice but to drop it. All while shedding crocodile tears.

Why did the PL just move to 63 scholarships and approve non-medical redshirts?

[Go...gate]

4D chess conspiracy shower thought:
It's well known some university presidents hate football and would drop it as soon as those pesky alumni see the light.
The Patriot League commissioner said they'd probably cease operations rather than pay players. (which is inevitable, no matter how much fans complain.)

Richmond's president wants to drop football. By moving just that to the PL, when the PL folds the prez can announce that with the massive new athletic costs and no home for FB, we unfortunately have no choice but to drop it. All while shedding crocodile tears.

Unlikely.

[taper]

Why did the PL just move to 63 scholarships and approve non-medical redshirts?
Allowing the bare minimum of what's expected of Division 1 isn't exactly a cause to party. The PL commissioner did say that, we had a thread on it awhile back. Will they carry through with it? Who knows. That's why I said shower thought. Hey, it's the off-season, we have to talk about something.

[KPSUL]

You want "Hockey East" version of FCS football. Can't disagree, but I think the CAA was smarter for leveraging their administration of the football league to benefit their "core" or full membership.

Blame UNH and Maine for putting their FB fortune in a lot with CAA and Southern partners that don't value their them. UNH and Maine have always needed the CAA FB much more than the CAA "core" ever needed them.

Don't forget that URI actually joined the NEC for football because they saw the direction of the league was moving away from New England. They only returned and stayed when the CAA added Stony Brook and Albany to rebuild a Northeast footprint.

As much as UNH, Maine, and URI complain about trips to play Campbell, Elon, NCAT, and Hampton - but those 4 schools (all CAA core members) have no interest in playing in New England anyway.

If Albany moves over to the CAA full time, it won't change football for UNH and Maine, but their full-time conference drops to 8 schools and they lose the AQ in baseball, softball, etc.

The CAA has stolen from the AE for years and that's a fact. FCS football isn't important enough to drive the larger realignments going on and UNH and Maine are not valued due to geography and demographics.

CAA-F traces its lineage thru the Atlantic-10 to the Yankee Conference NOT the CAA. At the time of its founding in May of 2005 as a 12 team conference, 5 of the Teams were from New England, 4 from the Mid-Atlantic and 3 from Virginia. And there was an even split of 6 football only members and 6 who were in the CAA for other sports. It is hard to understand how they ended up with a rule that any CAA non-football member could join the CAA-F at their own discretion and at a moments notice. Just plain stupid. Who knows whether it was a clever manipulation or a simple screw up, either way it could very well backfire on the CAA and not just for football. So, no Ace, I don't think the CAA has been smart in anyway for instituting and and abusing a counterproductive rule that could potentially ruin what was the best FCS conference in the Eastern US as well as the most successful program under the CAA banner.

There could very well be a new Northeast football league under some new or existing conference, at it's core made up of disgruntled CAA-F founding members. Although I don't think that CCSU will, or even should, be a member. Merrimack has a shot, and I say that only because they are already a player in major college hockey and thereby perceived as a peer by at least Maine and UNH. CCSU is really where it belongs now, although the NEC's future looks shakier than the CAA's so I understand you looking for a new home.

[dgreco]

All this Bryant hate kills me :). We may not be as prestigious as the old bloods, but we are a growing university in NE rather than many others that are dying out or opening the door in attempt to keep the university from shrinking. As for athletics, the University has continue to invest in its facilities, coaching, support staff, etc. It is one of the few NE privates that has a functioning NIL collective. As for football, I don't see how investing millions into the stadium and program makes it an undesirable program for the CAA. Bryant has proved it can recruit talent for multiple sports (albeit not always succeed with the talent) and has "decent" money coming into the university.

[DFW HOYA]

Spend the money and fund scholarships. The rest of us are doing it.

Easily said, except you're not supporting a $17 million men's basketball program that is losing money.

It's also not a slam dunk, to mix metaphors, that with roughly 340 of Georgetown's 400 men's athletes already competing without scholarships, that giving another 60 to one sport is an optimal use of resources.

[rhowdyram]

CAA-F traces its lineage thru the Atlantic-10 to the Yankee Conference NOT the CAA. At the time of its founding in May of 2005 as a 12 team conference, 5 of the Teams were from New England, 4 from the Mid-Atlantic and 3 from Virginia. And there was an even split of 6 football only members and 6 who were in the CAA for other sports. It is hard to understand how they ended up with a rule that any CAA non-football member could join the CAA-F at their own discretion and at a moments notice. Just plain stupid. Who knows whether it was a clever manipulation or a simple screw up, either way it could very well backfire on the CAA and not just for football.


Of those six all CAA schools, two no longer play football (Hofstra and Northeastern) and one won't be in the CAA after this year (Delaware).

The A10 could have stayed as a six school football conference (Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, UMass, and Villanova) until UMass decided to move up, but Richmond decided to join the CAA for football only, which essentially forced the other five schools to either add at least one more program to stay a viable conference or join the CAA for football only.

CAA football exists because Northeastern joined the league in all-sports and the Yankee part 2 doesn't exist because of Richmond, two schools that won't be playing football with us after this season.

[KPSUL]

All this Bryant hate kills me :). We may not be as prestigious as the old bloods, but we are a growing university in NE rather than many others that are dying out or opening the door in attempt to keep the university from shrinking. As for athletics, the University has continue to invest in its facilities, coaching, support staff, etc. It is one of the few NE privates that has a functioning NIL collective. As for football, I don't see how investing millions into the stadium and program makes it an undesirable program for the CAA. Bryant has proved it can recruit talent for multiple sports (albeit not always succeed with the talent) and has "decent" money coming into the university.

Good points! I just hope that as a CAA-F member with no CAA affiliation Bryant sees the light and moves with UNH, Maine, URI and hopefully Albany to where ever they land IF the CAA continues to implode.

[aceinthehole]

The legacy of the YC is irrelevant to the current situation. And all I hear is sour grapes from New England schools watching Southern schools move around and are unable to control their own density.

At the time, the CAA had more "core members" to administer CAAFB and drive it for their own long-term strategic benefit. UNH, Maine, URI were only along for the ride. The CAA made the power play by getting Delaware, Hofstra, Towson, and eventually Northeastern away from the AE.

Simple questions - why has the AE failed to drive the direction of the football league and attract new members? Why has the AE has lost 6 teams (and counting) to the CAA?

In the region both the NEC and AE has had to call up D-II members. It is OK and I don't expect or care if want CCSU in the AE, but if Albany bolts you will have no choice.

The AE has the NCAA minimum number of teams in Volleyball and Softball today! If Albany moves to the CAA, they AE will have no choice but to look at the NEC and D-II for replacements. On the other hand the CAA is looking to add schools like Albany, Fairfield, High Point, Howard.

[KPSUL]

Of those six all CAA schools, two no longer play football (Hofstra and Northeastern) and one won't be in the CAA after this year (Delaware).

The A10 could have stayed as a six school football conference (Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Richmond, UMass, and Villanova) until UMass decided to move up, but Richmond decided to join the CAA for football only, which essentially forced the other five schools to either add at least one more program to stay a viable conference or join the CAA for football only.

CAA football exists because Northeastern joined the league in all-sports and the Yankee part 2 doesn't exist because of Richmond, two schools that won't be playing football with us after this season.

All good information that provides more perspective on how we got to where we are today. My post is pondering how the open admission to CAA-F for all CAA members forever was built into the charter given the team demographics and equal number of CAA-F only members that existed at the time the conference was founded.

[WestCoastAggie]

All this Bryant hate kills me :). We may not be as prestigious as the old bloods, but we are a growing university in NE rather than many others that are dying out or opening the door in attempt to keep the university from shrinking. As for athletics, the University has continue to invest in its facilities, coaching, support staff, etc. It is one of the few NE privates that has a functioning NIL collective. As for football, I don't see how investing millions into the stadium and program makes it an undesirable program for the CAA. Bryant has proved it can recruit talent for multiple sports (albeit not always succeed with the talent) and has "decent" money coming into the university.

It seems that those affiliated with UD and UR keep throwing you all in, along with Campbell and Monmouth with A&T and Hampton as a way to soften the blow of CAA Member Chancellors and Presidents Voting two HBCUs into the conference.

I suspect if neither HBCU was invited, UR would still be in the conference for now. That doesn't mean the PL wouldn't pursue or UR ( and ultimately 'Nova ) would pursue PL membership.

[crusader11]

It seems that those affiliated with UD and UR keep throwing you all in, along with Campbell and Monmouth with A&T and Hampton as a way to soften the blow of CAA Member Chancellors and Presidents Voting two HBCUs into the conference.

I suspect if neither HBCU was invited, UR would still be in the conference for now. That doesn't mean the PL wouldn't pursue or UR ( and ultimately 'Nova ) would pursue PL membership.

Whoa. Strong statement.

[aceinthehole]

All good information that provides more perspective on how we got to where we are today. My post is pondering how the open admission to CAA-F for all CAA members forever was built into the charter given the team demographics and equal number of CAA-F only members that existed at the time the conference was founded.

Simple - the CAA was willing to take over and administer the football conference from the A-10 and that was their price. It was a smart move for them and everyone signed off on it. Mergers and acquisitions 101 - W&M and Towson got the "A" stock while UNH and Maine got the "B" stock in the restructuring.

You could also wonder why the AE didn't step up and offer to run the league with a similar stipulation. Maybe then the AE would be holding more cards today.

[rhowdyram]

The legacy of the YC is irrelevant to the current situation. And all I hear is sour grapes from New England schools watching Southern schools move around and are unable to control their own density.

At the time, the CAA had more "core members" to administer CAAFB and drive it for their own long-term strategic benefit. UNH, Maine, URI were only along for the ride. The CAA made the power play by getting Delaware, Hofstra, Towson, and eventually Northeastern away from the AE.

Simple questions - why has the AE failed to drive the direction of the football league and attract new members? Why has the AE has lost 6 teams (and counting) to the CAA?

In the region both the NEC and AE has had to call up D-II members. It is OK and I don't expect or care if want CCSU in the AE, but if Albany bolts you will have no choice.

The AE has the NCAA minimum number of teams in Volleyball and Softball today! If Albany moves to the CAA, they AE will have no choice but to look at the NEC and D-II for replacements. On the other hand the CAA is looking to add schools like Albany, Fairfield, High Point, Howard.

I disagree that the legacy of the Yankee Conference is irrelevant. We live in a world where people bemoan which teams are in which power conferences in the FBS. At the end of the day, does it really matter that UCLA is playing Michigan instead of Arizona State? No, not really. The FCS if far more regional, far more based on local rivalries, and presents a far more romanticized version of college football for lack of a better term. So why is it shocking that people might not be happy to watch a 38 year partnership erode out of the blue from a press release? Why wouldn't I be annoyed to know I'll probably never see another game against a team we have decades of history with?

Also, why would any fan be ok with their school being unable to control it's own destiny? It's bad enough when you can't control your own destiny because of bigger schools, but it's galling when you can't control your football schedule because of piss ant schools like Drexel and UNC Wilmington who we have nothing to do with and who don't even play football.

Finally, the CAA didn't have more core members. They had half of the core members. The two conferences could have remained separate, but Richmond ended the A10 football conference when they decided to go to the CAA. Now they don't like the direction the monster they helped to create is moving so they just bounce? Yeah, there's going to be some feelings about that.

[rhowdyram]

All good information that provides more perspective on how we got to where we are today. My post is pondering how the open admission to CAA-F for all CAA members forever was built into the charter given the team demographics and equal number of CAA-F only members that existed at the time the conference was founded.

It never should have been there and didn't exist when the A10 administered the conference. If the A10 had that rule schools like Dayton, Duquesne, Fordham, La Salle, and maybe some others could have all automatically become members of the football conference by being members of the main conference.

[rhowdyram]

It seems that those affiliated with UD and UR keep throwing you all in, along with Campbell and Monmouth with A&T and Hampton as a way to soften the blow of CAA Member Chancellors and Presidents Voting two HBCUs into the conference.

I suspect if neither HBCU was invited, UR would still be in the conference for now. That doesn't mean the PL wouldn't pursue or UR ( and ultimately 'Nova ) would pursue PL membership.

I hope you're wrong, but I'm worried you might not be.

[aceinthehole]

It never should have been there and didn't exist when the A10 administered the conference. If the A10 had that rule schools like Dayton, Duquesne, Fordham, La Salle, and maybe some others could have all automatically become members of the football conference by being members of the main conference.

Yep. The clause clearly benefited NU, Hofstra, Towson, Delaware, JMU, and W&M above the rest of the league.

It is the "gift" that keeps on giving for the entire CAA. But this fact was well known at the time and is exactly what allowed the CAA to make future full membership offers so attractive to Elon, Monmouth, Campbell, Hampton and NC A&T.

CAA Commission was playing chess at the time while the others were playing checkers.

[KPSUL]

The legacy of the YC is irrelevant to the current situation. And all I hear is sour grapes from New England schools watching Southern schools move around and are unable to control their own density.

At the time, the CAA had more "core members" to administer CAAFB and drive it for their own long-term strategic benefit. UNH, Maine, URI were only along for the ride. The CAA made the power play by getting Delaware, Hofstra, Towson, and eventually Northeastern away from the AE.

Simple questions - why has the AE failed to drive the direction of the football league and attract new members? Why has the AE has lost 6 teams (and counting) to the CAA?

In the region both the NEC and AE has had to call up D-II members. It is OK and I don't expect or care if want CCSU in the AE, but if Albany bolts you will have no choice.

The AE has the NCAA minimum number of teams in Volleyball and Softball today! If Albany moves to the CAA, they AE will have no choice but to look at the NEC and D-II for replacements. On the other hand the CAA is looking to add schools like Albany, Fairfield, High Point, Howard.

Far and away the most likely thing that will happen with UNH football is that it stays in the CAA-F and continues to play most of the conference games vs teams in the North East. As I posted a number of times here athletic priorities at UNH are significantly different than many colleges. Hockey and Football drive the train, but there is a commitment to Men's/Women's Alpine and Nordic Skiing at the NCAA Div 1 level. Women's Gymnastics is also a priority. I believe that the administration is perfectly happy to have the remaining sports in the AE, and that is not really very many. We don't play Baseball, Softball or Men's Lacrosse. Men's soccer has been a big deal at UNH recently - we've made the NCAA tournament for about 6 years running and played very well against and even beaten national powerhouses. But the AE has worked very well for us for Soccer, in fact 3 teams out of the AE made the NCAA tourny last season. If the AE loses Albany, or any other team to the CAA, and needs to find a replacement out of the NEC or Div 2, I suspect the UNH reaction will be ho-hum, we'll still play'em in football.

[KPSUL]

Yep. The clause clearly benefited NU, Hofstra, Towson, Delaware, JMU, and W&M above the rest of the league.

It is the "gift" that keeps on giving for the entire CAA. But this fact was well known at the time and is exactly what allowed the CAA to make future full membership offers so attractive to Elon, Monmouth, Campbell, Hampton and NC A&T.

CAA Commission was playing chess at the time while the others were playing checkers.

For many years, the CAA-F wisely tried to stay at the 12 team level. Stony Brook, Albany, Elon and Monmouth were all efforts to maintain that balance as other teams left. The problems started when we bloated up to 15.

[NY Crusader 2010]

For many years, the CAA-F wisely tried to stay at the 12 team level. Stony Brook, Albany, Elon and Monmouth were all efforts to maintain that balance as other teams left. The problems started when we bloated up to 15.

Remember it's not all about football. The CAA was looking to refill it's ranks as far as all-sports membership, which resulted in a bloated football conference.

[NY Crusader 2010]

It never should have been there and didn't exist when the A10 administered the conference. If the A10 had that rule schools like Dayton, Duquesne, Fordham, La Salle, and maybe some others could have all automatically become members of the football conference by being members of the main conference.

Apples to oranges, sort of. The A-10 took over the league banner in 1997 after it was the Yankee Conference. At that time, none of the 4 schools you mentioned would have had the desire to join the league, or have had a chance to be even remotely competitive. Even Fordham was the bottom feeder of the Patriot League for most of the 1990's. Can't really compare those schools football circumstances in 1997 to that of NCA&T, Campbell and Elon in the 2010's.

[Gangtackle11]

Nova’s season ticket renewal deadline was today. The PL announcement watch is on. Lol.


Nothing against the new CAA teams, but the Nova fans (the few we have) align more to the PL schools. They are closer in proximity &!with the likely of FBS $$$ games going away the move makes alot of sense now that Delaware, JMU, & Richmond have left.


Sad to see the CAA become the Big South 2.0. We’ll see what Nova’s AD/BOT decide.

xpeacex

[Doc QB]

The Patriot League has not played a season with expanded roster sizes (happening this year), 63 scholarships (happened last year?), and redshirting (happening this year).

Redshirting and bigger rosters are huge changes.

Richmond will play in a version of the PL we've never seen before.

Anyone have a source that redshirts are allowed now in PL?
i missed that.

[Ramblin' Man]

All this Bryant hate kills me :). We may not be as prestigious as the old bloods, but we are a growing university in NE rather than many others that are dying out or opening the door in attempt to keep the university from shrinking. As for athletics, the University has continue to invest in its facilities, coaching, support staff, etc. It is one of the few NE privates that has a functioning NIL collective. As for football, I don't see how investing millions into the stadium and program makes it an undesirable program for the CAA. Bryant has proved it can recruit talent for multiple sports (albeit not always succeed with the talent) and has "decent" money coming into the university.

You won't hear any Bryant hate from me. I've enjoyed our games with Bryant, even though you've defeated us 3 times out of 5 games played. If I had the authority (which I most definitely do not), I'd tell Georgetown to move to the Pioneer League, since they do not plan to offer football scholarships, and bring you into the Patriot League in their place.

[Go...gate]

Easily said, except you're not supporting a $17 million men's basketball program that is losing money.

It's also not a slam dunk, to mix metaphors, that with roughly 340 of Georgetown's 400 men's athletes already competing without scholarships, that giving another 60 to one sport is an optimal use of resources.

25 years in the league, the last several with all other football members going scholarship (Colgate had to move Heaven and Earth to do it}. I cannot imagine that Georgetown's administration did not envision that this day would come. Now it is here.

[bonarae]

25 years in the league, the last several with all other football members going scholarship (Colgate had to move Heaven and Earth to do it}. I cannot imagine that Georgetown's administration did not envision that this day would come. Now it is here.

Now is also the time to go drop the program... do you think Georgetown can go BU and Northeastern and survive without football by diverting its supposed funds to men's basketball (the two Boston schools are thriving in ice hockey)?

Or do you all think that Georgetown may go the Pacific (CA) route? That program lost its direction outright after they cut football in 1996.

[Go...gate]

Now is also the time to go drop the program... do you think Georgetown can go BU and Northeastern and survive without football by diverting its supposed funds to men's basketball (the two Boston schools are thriving in ice hockey)?

Or do you all think that Georgetown may go the Pacific (CA) route? That program lost its direction outright after they cut football in 1996.

If $$$ is that tight down in DC, who knows? Perhaps the plug will have to be pulled.

Pioneer League?

[The Boogie Down]

You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk

To paraphrase another poster, they let in every Tom, Dick and Hampton that could spell CAA. But yes, welcome Spider fans!


LOL Richmond didn't see PL as a dumpster fire (rational folks leave a dumpster fire and head to a better place).
May be time to re-examine your position vis a vis the Patriot League.

Imagine the reexamination if Villanova were to "run to the dumpster fire."



If it doesn’t work, we have a terrific new rivalry with Elon. It’s actually more important to Richmond to keep the game on the schedule than it is for W&M.
Talking up your rivalry w/Elon? ELON?!?!? Bwaaaaaaaaaa-haa-haa-haa-haa-haaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! xdrunkyx



Affiliates aren’t driving the CAA bus.
It's not a bus, it's a sinking ship.

JMU jumped on the lifeboat and rowed off years ago. Delaware* and Richmond are on the starboard, arms extended, chin tucked in and about to dive to safety. Villanova is looking for an orange vest. And everybody reading this knows there's a better shot your school makes a mayday call to the SS Patriot League than there is of any PL crew member ever even thinking about jumping on your Titanic. And that last part ain't even close.

* - Pretty hilarious that in trying to knock Richmond you mentioned how departing CAA teams have "all moved up." Well, if they've all moved up, why have you spent the last 6 months constantly knocking Delaware? If they have, as you've just admitted, moved up, shouldn't you instead be happy for Delaware? Most want to move up. Most don't want to go down with the ship. Most don't want to pretend anyone cares about playing Hampton. Or even your new big rival,,, Elon.


It seems that those affiliated with UD and UR keep throwing you all in, along with Campbell and Monmouth with A&T and Hampton as a way to soften the blow of CAA Member Chancellors and Presidents Voting two HBCUs into the conference.

I suspect if neither HBCU was invited, UR would still be in the conference for now. That doesn't mean the PL wouldn't pursue or UR ( and ultimately 'Nova ) would pursue PL membership.

Yup. Nailed it. The pages and pages and pages of responses are simply a front. Really, it's just about race for both Delaware and Richmond. JMU and UMass (knowing one day HBCU's would get into the conference) too actually. Welp, at least it's out in the open now.

[UNHWildcat18]

Where to begin with this post? First of all maybe save your smack talk for a season when you didn't have 5 loses. And Lafayette was absolutely handling Delaware until our starting QB went down with a broken ankle in the first half.

But forget all that, let's talk about the "dumpster fire" that is the Patriot League. No doubt the CAA WAS the cream of the FCS crop. No doubt the PL lagged far behind much to the frustration of its loyal fans. Don't look now but it would appear the PLs painfully measured approach to growth just might have been the correct course of action. We weren't flashy or exciting but we were consistent. We have standards by which we stood. You had to fit the profile to even be considered (UNH isn't even close by the way). Perhaps we clung to certain guiding principles a little too long. The scholarship limitations, the red shirt situation; those were real impediments to growth rooted in antiquated desires to be the Ivy League-lite. As you may recall we used to not attend the national playoffs. But those are obstacles of the past. The league now has the same level of scholarships. Effective next year we now allow for non-medical red shirts. This dumpster fire has largely stuck to its most important ideals while evolving all the while. Now we are a league steeped in tradition whose members still represent some of the finest colleges and universities in the country. And, seemingly, we are about to embark on a new chapter rooted in winning at the highest fcs levels. A chapter which compliments our history of consistency and rich football tradition very nicely

And where is the much vaunted CAA? You have no standards. You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

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Hello Random Alcorn state fan Circa 2021.

I didn't know smack talk wasn't allowed when your team had 5 losses, we had to listen to every HC fan go (OmG Lyke WE R BETTUR THan HALF DA FIELD)( OMG LIKE HC GIVES SDSU A BETTER GAME, DID ANYONE KNOW WE PLAYED THEM TOUGH FOR A HALF LAST YEAR?) all playoff long........ I don't expect UNH to be great this year, maybe even average again but I'm gonna laugh if HC doesn't make the playoffs the next few years, the Chesney Era is over, it was good while is lasted.

Delaware had more injuries than my local hospital going into the laffy game, regardless. Lol OMG wow great point UNH (Isn't close) Public land grant university vs private high academic index small colleges. Yeah we get it.... Very different....Like saying that would bother me.

Yawn

[gravalico]

Hello Random Alcorn state fan Circa 2021.

I didn't know smack talk wasn't allowed when your team had 5 losses, we had to listen to every HC fan go (OmG Lyke WE R BETTUR THan HALF DA FIELD)( OMG LIKE HC GIVES SDSU A BETTER GAME, DID ANYONE KNOW WE PLAYED THEM TOUGH FOR A HALF LAST YEAR?) all playoff long........ I don't expect UNH to be great this year, maybe even average again but I'm gonna laugh if HC doesn't make the playoffs the next few years, the Chesney Era is over, it was good while is lasted.

Delaware had more injuries than my local hospital going into the laffy game, regardless. Lol OMG wow great point UNH (Isn't close) Public land grant university vs private high academic index small colleges. Yeah we get it.... Very different....Like saying that would bother me.

YawnYour the one throwing around the term "dumpster fire", chief. I'm just pointing out that whatever the Patriot League was, it is no longer...that's clear. And I'm also pointing out that UNH, as per usual, is not in any relevant conversation about...well anything.

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[Wolffan]

Originally Posted by bonarae https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=3188539#post3188539)
Now is also the time to go drop the program... do you think Georgetown can go BU and Northeastern and survive without football by diverting its supposed funds to men's basketball (the two Boston schools are thriving in ice hockey)?


Or do you all think that Georgetown may go the Pacific (CA) route? That program lost its direction outright after they cut football in 1996.
If $$$ is that tight down in DC, who knows? Perhaps the plug will have to be pulled.

Pioneer League?

Actually, it is not a secret that money is and always has been tight at Georgetown (especially relative to their academic peers). Probably rooted in the size of their endowment (especially per capita and relative to their academic peers). There's a reason they've always been known for low-ish financial aid (especially relative to their academic peers) for all students and their athletic facilities are sub par. And the campus is a bit of a mishmash. This is not to suggest they are about to go belly up but there is a reason they can't do the Ivy thing and offer VERY generous financial aid while staying away from football athletic scholarships. If they could afford to do that they would be able to build a better roster OR if they could afford to give 60 football schollies they could build a better roster. But they do neither expensive option. (Obviously, they could do the latter by diverting funds from elsewhere but that is an admin decision and the admin decision has been "No!")

This may be an eye-opener for some regarding Georgetown's endowment: https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/blogs/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

[MR. CHICKEN]

33318

.....GOTTAH WONDER......HOW DUH SPORTS WRITERS @ LINDY'S/ATHLON........ARE KEEPIN' UP....WHAT WHIFF DUH PORTAL.....AN' DUH MAYFLOWERS....HEADIN' IN ALL.....DIRECTIONS..........:D....BRAWK!

[Go Green]

Originally Posted by bonarae https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=3188539#post3188539)
Now is also the time to go drop the program... do you think Georgetown can go BU and Northeastern and survive without football by diverting its supposed funds to men's basketball (the two Boston schools are thriving in ice hockey)?


Or do you all think that Georgetown may go the Pacific (CA) route? That program lost its direction outright after they cut football in 1996.

Actually, it is not a secret that money is and always has been tight at Georgetown (especially relative to their academic peers). Probably rooted in the size of their endowment (especially per capita and relative to their academic peers). There's a reason they've always been known for low-ish financial aid (especially relative to their academic peers) for all students and their athletic facilities are sub par. And the campus is a bit of a mishmash. This is not to suggest they are about to go belly up but there is a reason they can't do the Ivy thing and offer VERY generous financial aid while staying away from football athletic scholarships. If they could afford to do that they would be able to build a better roster OR if they could afford to give 60 football schollies they could build a better roster. But they do neither expensive option. (Obviously, they could do the latter by diverting funds from elsewhere but that is an admin decision and the admin decision has been "No!")

This may be an eye-opener for some regarding Georgetown's endowment: https://www.insidehighered.com/opinion/blogs/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

The analogy I've always heard is that Georgetown is the student at the elite prep school who has to work waiting tables to help his family cover tuition, whereas all his classmates have plenty of family money...

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

To paraphrase another poster, they let in every Tom, Dick and Hampton that could spell CAA. But yes, welcome Spider fans!



Imagine the reexamination if Villanova were to "run to the dumpster fire."



Talking up your rivalry w/Elon? ELON?!?!? Bwaaaaaaaaaa-haa-haa-haa-haa-haaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! xdrunkyx


It's not a bus, it's a sinking ship.

JMU jumped on the lifeboat and rowed off years ago. Delaware* and Richmond are on the starboard, arms extended, chin tucked in and about to dive to safety. Villanova is looking for an orange vest. And everybody reading this knows there's a better shot your school makes a mayday call to the SS Patriot League than there is of any PL crew member ever even thinking about jumping on your Titanic. And that last part ain't even close.

* - Pretty hilarious that in trying to knock Richmond you mentioned how departing CAA teams have "all moved up." Well, if they've all moved up, why have you spent the last 6 months constantly knocking Delaware? If they have, as you've just admitted, moved up, shouldn't you instead be happy for Delaware? Most want to move up. Most don't want to go down with the ship. Most don't want to pretend anyone cares about playing Hampton. Or even your new big rival,,, Elon.



Yup. Nailed it. The pages and pages and pages of responses are simply a front. Really, it's just about race for both Delaware and Richmond. JMU and UMass (knowing one day HBCU's would get into the conference) too actually. Welp, at least it's out in the open now.

Sitting Bull's standard shtick revolves around saying the G5 is meaningless. So, of course, to stay intellectually honest, he has to knock Delaware's decision.

[pardfan]

Richmond and (maybe) Villanova will dominate this League. That concerns me.

[Gater]

Anyone have a source that redshirts are allowed now in PL?
i missed that.

At 8:17 of the Richmond press conference Coach Huesman says "(Redshirting) is really important and we want to continue to do that."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0_TC2qDlc&t=501s

He did not say, "We WILL continue to do that" so I could certainly be wrong. Hard to imagine him not being aware/angry that they were losing redshirting.

[caribbeanhen]

To paraphrase another poster, they let in every Tom, Dick and Hampton that could spell CAA. But yes, welcome Spider

It's not a bus, it's a sinking ship.

JMU jumped on the lifeboat and rowed off years ago. Delaware* and Richmond are on the starboard, arms extended, chin tucked in and about to dive to safety. Villanova is looking for an orange vest. And everybody reading this knows there's a better shot your school makes a mayday call to the SS Patriot League than there is of any PL crew member ever even thinking about jumping on your Titanic. And that last part ain't even ou instead be happy for Delaware? Most want to move up. Most don't want to go down with the ship.



I love the nautical theme

and Delaware was warned about the iceberg while the violin plays in Williamsburg

[IslandPard]

Richmond and (maybe) Villanova will dominate this League. That concerns me.

Maybe for a few years until we meet in the middle. Middle meaning we catch-up with redshirts and roster sizes and they adjust to the AI.

[crusader11]

Richmond and (maybe) Villanova will dominate this League. That concerns me.

I don't agree with this.

Villanova and Richmond aren't that better compared to the top two or three teams in the PL (HC, Fordham, Lafayette). In fact, last season, Richmond had a lower Sagarin rating than HC and Lafayette.

Rising tides raises all ships -- my hope is that the rest of the programs see an uptick in level of play with Richmond and, hopefully, Villanova, joining the league.

The PL is in a really strong position right now.

[Franks Tanks]

I don't agree with this.

Villanova and Richmond aren't that better compared to the top two or three teams in the PL (HC, Fordham, Lafayette). In fact, last season, Richmond had a lower Sagarin rating than HC and Lafayette.

Rising tides raises all ships -- my hope is that the rest of the programs see an uptick in level of play with Richmond and, hopefully, Villanova, joining the league.

The PL is in a really strong position right now.

Nova and Richmond are attractive destinations for recruits. When playing under current CAA rules, and us under PL, they had some significant advantages. With redshirting coming, and rumored loosening of AI restrictions, PL schools should have no more excuses. I think we’re close but it’s up each school to raise the bar a bit to compete with the Spiders and possibly Nova.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Richmond and (maybe) Villanova will dominate this League. That concerns me.

Villanova has dominated the PL for 30+ years. Hell, they've dominated Delaware for 20-25 years. They are the premier FCS program in the Northeast. While they might not "dominate" the CAA, they became the controlling entity in the league once JMU departed. I have to believe if (when) the Wildcats join the PL, they will remain atop this perch. Richmond will be good most seasons but is far from immune from some down years (ala Colgate and Lehigh). Although, Lehigh's current downturn is reaching a critical level because it's closing in on a decade.

I've been hesitant to post given all the emotional drivel that ensued once the announcement was made. Besides DFW, I would argue no one has been more critical of the PL than me on AGS over the years. However, my tune has changed significantly the last 12-18 months thanks to my doctoral work in higher ed opening up valuable, contextually relevant doors of information. Ultimately, the PL finally embraced the role (even a quasi one) of being an influential entity in college athletics at a time of seismic change. These recent changes are just a greater extension of why the league was created in the first place.

I do anticipate Villanova will join as well which, along with the redshirt changes, will allow the PL to emerge as the premier FCS conference entirely east of the Mississippi.

The PL's problem has never been its inability to produce viable, nationally relevant teams, subpar facilities, and/or terrible support (although success matters for community support since these aren't state schools). In recent years, since the adoption of scholarships, the primary issue has been the lack of quality depth. Rarely, has the league had more than 1 good team at a time since the mid 2000s. There was a two year stretch recently when only the league champion had a winning record. Then there were the 2017 and 2013 embarrassments that resulted from the PL champion having a losing record. Now that non-medical redshirts will be available (granted in the portal era their effect will have to be recalibrated), scholarships are at the maximum level, and iirc, roster sizes have been expanded, the league will consistently have 3 Top 25 teams.

[Doc QB]

At 8:17 of the Richmond press conference Coach Huesman says "(Redshirting) is really important and we want to continue to do that."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym0_TC2qDlc&t=501s

He did not say, "We WILL continue to do that" so I could certainly be wrong. Hard to imagine him not being aware/angry that they were losing redshirting.
We had a football alum Zoom call with Coach Cahill just a few weeks ago. Redshirting did not come up, and it most certainly would have if it was allowed going forward, post COVID years.
That said, the roster limits being gone and the schollie cap from 60 to 63 didnt really get much press. So, I could envision redshirts also not being given fanfare.
But, since its such a big issue, hard to imaging it wouldnt have had much more discussion with coaches, players, press, etc.

Looking for corroboration as its a big deal for many reasons.
One, we just plain need it.
Two, if it hasnt changed, the UR folks are going to lose their minds.
Again.

[gravalico]

Villanova has dominated the PL for 30+ years. Hell, they've dominated Delaware for 20-25 years. They are the premier FCS program in the Northeast. While they might not "dominate" the CAA, they became the controlling entity in the league once JMU departed. I have to believe if (when) the Wildcats join the PL, they will remain atop this perch. Richmond will be good most seasons but is far from immune from some down years (ala Colgate and Lehigh). Although, Lehigh's current downturn is reaching a critical level because it's closing in on a decade.

I've been hesitant to post given all the emotional drivel that ensued once the announcement was made. Besides DFW, I would argue no one has been more critical of the PL than me on AGS over the years. However, my tune has changed significantly the last 12-18 months thanks to my doctoral work in higher ed opening up valuable, contextually relevant doors of information. Ultimately, the PL finally embraced the role (even a quasi one) of being an influential entity in college athletics at a time of seismic change. These recent changes are just a greater extension of why the league was created in the first place.

I do anticipate Villanova will join as well which, along with the redshirt changes, will allow the PL to emerge as the premier FCS conference entirely east of the Mississippi.

The PL's problem has never been its inability to produce viable, nationally relevant teams, subpar facilities, and/or terrible support (although success matters for community support since these aren't state schools). In recent years, since the adoption of scholarships, the primary issue has been the lack of quality depth. Rarely, has the league had more than 1 good team at a time since the mid 2000s. There was a two year stretch recently when only the league champion had a winning record. Then there were the 2017 and 2013 embarrassments that resulted from the PL champion having a losing record. Now that non-medical redshirts will be available (granted in the portal era their effect will have to be recalibrated), scholarships are at the maximum level, and iirc, roster sizes have been expanded, the league will consistently have 3 Top 25 teams.So well put, Owl. If one doesn't see the evolution of the PL over the last few years they haven't been paying attention. Crazy and chaotic though it was (and certainly don't want to marginalize those who lost loved ones) I think Covid will turn out being a good thing for the league as it kicked in the red shirt door which was previously barred.

I think any of the CAA leagues that come over will dominate for a few years. Not to say, Lafayette, HC and Fordham can't take advantage of their already strong positions. I think they will certainly be in the mix. It just stands to reason that the inertia inherent in the program recognition, on a national basis, of teams like Nova, Richmond and W&M would serve them very well on the recruiting trail. For a while anyway. Then the playing field starts to level as kids recognize the other excellent teams in the league. From a facilities and resources perspective (Georgetown not withstanding), there is no discernable difference already. I do worry about Georgetown. They are going to stand in stark relief even more so now.

Honestly with the number of schollies and the red shirt situation rectified, I think it is fair to say the PL is very much on the upswing whether or not CAA schools come over. The playing field will level in the coming years no matter what. While I'd like to see how the whole academic index question unfolds I wouldn't want to see it go away altogether. UR, Nova and W&M are comparable enough. Not interested in welcoming Campbell or NC A&T any time soon.

It's a brave new day for the PL, that's for sure.

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[caribbeanhen]

I noticed the PL was on the uptick last year

Prior to playoff game I warned Hen fans about Laffy

[POD Knows]

I noticed the PL was on the uptick last year

Prior to playoff game I warned Hen fans about Laffy
Laffy was a glitch in the matrix. BOOKIT

[Gater]

We had a football alum Zoom call with Coach Cahill just a few weeks ago. Redshirting did not come up, and it most certainly would have if it was allowed going forward, post COVID years.
That said, the roster limits being gone and the schollie cap from 60 to 63 didnt really get much press. So, I could envision redshirts also not being given fanfare.
But, since its such a big issue, hard to imaging it wouldnt have had much more discussion with coaches, players, press, etc.

Looking for corroboration as its a big deal for many reasons.
One, we just plain need it.
Two, if it hasnt changed, the UR folks are going to lose their minds.
Again.

I agree on verification. I have no info besides this.

The Richmond coach talking about his assistant coaches having to scramble when going to talk to recruits that day makes it feel like they were more in the dark than I would have thought. Could that mean that he didn't know this was coming and doesn't know if he'll still have redshirting? That can't be the case, right?

I can see the Covid fifth years rules as the perfect gateway to redshirting. Hopefully, this has happened.

President Casey at Colgate is the head of the PL right now and is very pro sports and specifically talked about bringing Richmond (among others) into the league. I can see him arguing that redshirting already happened with Covid and didn't change anything other than giving athletes another year to graduate (which makes schools look better).

Casey has done an incredible job at Colgate and gets stuff done. The school now has a 12% acceptance rate and tons of new construction. I can see Richmond not being the only addition to the PL.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....NO ONE'S....TALKIN' TOWSON........ANY CLOUT LEFT.....TA CALL UP....UH PATRIOT MARKER....xconfusedx.....BAWK?

[Ramblin' Man]

.....NO ONE'S....TALKIN' TOWSON........ANY CLOUT LEFT.....TA CALL UP....UH PATRIOT MARKER....xconfusedx.....BAWK?

I, for one, would rather see the Patriot League remain all private schools, as it is now (yes, I know that Towson was in the league for a short while a long time ago).

[UNHWildcat18]

Your the one throwing around the term "dumpster fire", chief. I'm just pointing out that whatever the Patriot League was, it is no longer...that's clear. And I'm also pointing out that UNH, as per usual, is not in any relevant conversation about...well anything.

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1 bid league with G-Town and Bucknell who basically have football so the others can keep the AQ, ranked low for a long time. Not really pointing out anything new. It will improve with Richmond that’s for sure.

Also in terms of relevance, (per usual lol gimme a break) UNH has been relevant significantly more than HC over the last 24 years, just not the last 2.

I’m sure Richmond will excel quite quickly in the PL come 2025

[crusader11]

UNH is in grave danger of becoming obsolete, IMO. Really important season upcoming for Santos.

[DFW HOYA]

I think we’re close but it’s up each school to raise the bar a bit to compete with the Spiders and possibly Nova.

Bucknell and Georgetown aside, the five other schools all rank in the top 16 in budgets already. What more can/should they do?

[taper]

Bucknell and Georgetown aside, the five other schools all rank in the top 16 in budgets already. What more can/should they do?
That's just an accounting game with sky high tuition rates. Unless you want to say they're vastly under-performing given their budgets.

[Go Green]

UNH is in grave danger of becoming obsolete, IMO. Really important season upcoming for Santos.

"Obsolete" is a bit much.

Worst case scenario is that UNH and the other NE CAA teams join forces with the NEC teams.

[caribbeanhen]

"Obsolete" is a bit much.

Worst case scenario is that UNH and the other NE CAA teams join forces with the NEC teams.

say hello Mr Yuck 🤢

[crusader11]

"Obsolete" is a bit much.

Worst case scenario is that UNH and the other NE CAA teams join forces with the NEC teams.

Sooooo obsolete.

[Doc QB]

I agree on verification. I have no info besides this.

Got verification from Coach. Redshirts are here.
Well, 2025.

[Franks Tanks]

Bucknell and Georgetown aside, the five other schools all rank in the top 16 in budgets already. What more can/should they do?
Get better at football commensurate with the resources being provided.

[RichH2]

Get better at football commensurate with the resources being provided.

+1

[KPSUL]

Where to begin with this post? First of all maybe save your smack talk for a season when you didn't have 5 loses. And Lafayette was absolutely handling Delaware until our starting QB went down with a broken ankle in the first half.

But forget all that, let's talk about the "dumpster fire" that is the Patriot League. No doubt the CAA WAS the cream of the FCS crop. No doubt the PL lagged far behind much to the frustration of its loyal fans. Don't look now but it would appear the PLs painfully measured approach to growth just might have been the correct course of action. We weren't flashy or exciting but we were consistent. We have standards by which we stood. You had to fit the profile to even be considered (UNH isn't even close by the way). Perhaps we clung to certain guiding principles a little too long. The scholarship limitations, the red shirt situation; those were real impediments to growth rooted in antiquated desires to be the Ivy League-lite. As you may recall we used to not attend the national playoffs. But those are obstacles of the past. The league now has the same level of scholarships. Effective next year we now allow for non-medical red shirts. This dumpster fire has largely stuck to its most important ideals while evolving all the while. Now we are a league steeped in tradition whose members still represent some of the finest colleges and universities in the country. And, seemingly, we are about to embark on a new chapter rooted in winning at the highest fcs levels. A chapter which compliments our history of consistency and rich football tradition very nicely

And where is the much vaunted CAA? You have no standards. You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

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For your reading pleasure; and from a PL source.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/new-hampshire-was-this-close-to-joining.html

[KPSUL]

Remember it's not all about football. The CAA was looking to refill it's ranks as far as all-sports membership, which resulted in a bloated football conference.
Exactly the reason we are where we are now.

[KPSUL]

Richmond and (maybe) Villanova will dominate this League. That concerns me.

If they both join, I'd word it: "Villanova and maybe Richmond will dominate".

[KPSUL]

JMU jumped on the lifeboat and rowed off years ago.



This is simply Bull_ _ _ _ and much more so than anything Sitting Bull has posted. JMU's departure had absolutely nothing to do with getting out of the CAA. Had they continued to play football at the FCS level there is no where they would have rather been than the CAA. JMU had been planning and preparing to move to FBS for many years - they expanded their stadium to G5 dimensions a decade before moving to the Sun Belt. By the time they left they were playing football and spending money at the G5 level. All this is obvious when you look at their remarkable success at day one in FBS, G5. Delaware has done pretty much the same, although not for as long a period time and perhaps not as effectively - we'll see in a few years how it works out.

[Sitting Bull]

This is simply Bull_ _ _ _ and much more so than anything Sitting Bull has posted. JMU's departure had absolutely nothing to do with getting out of the CAA. Had they continued to play football at the FCS level there is no where they would have rather been than the CAA. JMU had been planning and preparing to move to FBS for many years - they expanded their stadium to G5 dimensions a decade before moving to the Sun Belt. By the time they left they were playing football and spending money at the G5 level. All this is obvious when you look at their remarkable success at day one in FBS, G5. Delaware has done pretty much the same, although not for as long a period time and perhaps not as effectively - we'll see in a few years how it works out.

Thanks, KPSUL. When I saw Boogie Downs 3AM rant, I just assumed he’d banged his head on the disco ball too hard - maybe several times.

He’s right thought on my comments on Delaware. Maybe it works but right now, it looks like the dumbest execution of a move out of FCS yet seen. I’m not overall a huge fan of G5 overall though the JMU move and the Sun Belt set of their eastern division is terrific regardless of the division it sits. Like schools in a regional format. CUSA is the opposite. And if there were a G5 option in the mid Atlantic, I would be a proponent of W&M making an effort - beyond that the current G5 and FCS east coast options just aren’t good fits.

[KPSUL]

Villanova has dominated the PL for 30+ years. Hell, they've dominated Delaware for 20-25 years. They are the premier FCS program in the Northeast. While they might not "dominate" the CAA, they became the controlling entity in the league once JMU departed. I have to believe if (when) the Wildcats join the PL, they will remain atop this perch. Richmond will be good most seasons but is far from immune from some down years (ala Colgate and Lehigh).
.

I'm not sure what a controlling entity is in a college football conference, but no one team has been in control of the CAA since JMU departed after the 2021 season. W&M and UNH shared the title with 7-1 records in 2022, Albany, Richmond and Villanova in 2023. Albany went deeper into the playoffs than the other 4 teams, but sort of ruined it with the blow out loss in the Semi-finals to the eventual FCS Champs. Richmond was the only of the 5 to make the playoffs both seasons. Delaware stumbled into the Playoffs in 2022 and limped in 2023. As far as the Premier Team in the Northeast, I don't know your criteria, or what you consider the Northeast, or how long a period you are talking. Villanova struggled 3 out of the first 4 seasons after Talley's departure. They did have strong seasons in 21 and 23, but I think Holy Cross performed better over, let's say, the past 5-6 years.

[KPSUL]

Thanks, KPSUL. When I saw Boogie Downs 3AM rant, I just assumed he’d banged his head on the disco ball too hard - maybe several times.

He’s right thought on my comments on Delaware. Maybe it works but right now, it looks like the dumbest execution of a move out of FCS yet seen. I’m not overall a huge fan of G5 overall though the JMU move and the Sun Belt set of their eastern division is terrific regardless of the division it sits. Like schools in a regional format. CUSA is the opposite. And if there were a G5 option in the mid Atlantic, I would be a proponent of W&M making an effort - beyond that the current G5 and FCS east coast options just aren’t good fits.

The Delaware move only looks good when compared to the fantasy dystopian CAA world our PL friends have created in this thread.

[RichH2]

A fun thread. Interesting viewpoints abound 🤷*♂️🏈😁 Great news for the PL and not particularly damaging to the CAA. My takeaway from the UR is amazement at the lightening fast decisions by PL Presidents to finally abandon the asinine redshirting ban. It would appear that negotiations have been going on for a while. It is no coincidence that non medical redshirting will be allowed starting in '25 when UR joins the league.
Nor is the CAA a sinking ship Axmittedly it is more of a conglomeration of disparate programs than a conference. It will sort itself out over the next few years. Given the current landscape, I would be surprised if UR is the only assoc. football member to leave.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not sure what a controlling entity is in a college football conference, but no one team has been in control of the CAA since JMU departed after the 2021 season. W&M and UNH shared the title with 7-1 records in 2022, Albany, Richmond and Villanova in 2023. Albany went deeper into the playoffs than the other 4 teams, but sort of ruined it with the blow out loss in the Semi-finals to the eventual FCS Champs. Richmond was the only of the 5 to make the playoffs both seasons. Delaware stumbled into the Playoffs in 2022 and limped in 2023. As far as the Premier Team in the Northeast, I don't know your criteria, or what you consider the Northeast, or how long a period you are talking. Villanova struggled 3 out of the first 4 seasons after Talley's departure. They did have strong seasons in 21 and 23, but I think Holy Cross performed better over, let's say, the past 5-6 years.

Villanova is the program with the most pedigree left in the CAA as its presently constructed. They're the only program left in the CAA with a 1-AA/FCS National Championship. Towson of all programs is the only one left with a title game appearance. How many people would know that nugget? Villanova is an institution that has captured tremendous wealth over the last quarter century which has translated into great institutional wide success and additional leverage in decision making practices (I'd pay to be in a room with leaders from Fordham, HC, Georgetown and Villanova but then again I'm weird). As a Temple alum it pains me to say it but Villanova's rise is tangible. Temple has fared very well academically and campus infrastructure wise but just about everything else has been a disaster. While fans on here like to mock 'Nova's attendance and stadium neither are terrible. Basketball simply skews perception of what Wildcat football should be on a superficial level. 2009 National Champs, 3 Payton Winners, numerous notable NFL players, ranked #1 several times speaks for itself.

Villanova has been better than HC despite the Crusaders run under Chesney. They even beat HC head-2-head in the 2021 playoffs. If we're valuing moral victories (and I think it carries some weight given how good SDSU has been) Villanova put up a better fight in Brookings this past year than HC did out there in 2022. I must say, while I respect what Chesney did at HC it was not unprecedented outside of the 5-peat (Covid aided). HC really only had one playoff win of note (UNH) and one truly elite team (2022). Last year proved to be a rather big disappointment. Top 5 to nothing, similar to Lehigh in 2002 and Colgate in 2019 iirc. Speaking of Colgate, the Raiders had playoff wins over UNH and JMU in 2015 then was seeded and beat JMU again in 2018 in recent years.

UNH, W&M, and Albany seem well positioned to seize control of the CAA imo....if 'Nova were to leave (needed to add that caveat)...

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova is is the program with the most pedigree left in the CAA as its presently constructed. They're the only program left in the CAA with a 1-AA/FCS National Championship. Towson of all programs is the only one left with a title game appearance. How many people would know that nugget? Villanova is an institution that has captured tremendous wealth over the last quarter century which has translated into great institutional wide success and additional leverage in decision making practices (I'd pay to be in a room with leaders from Fordham, HC, Georgetown and Villanova but then again I'm weird). As a Temple alum it pains me to say it but Villanova's rise is tangible. Temple has fared very well academically and campus infrastructure wise but just about everything else has been a disaster. While fans on here like to mock 'Nova's attendance and stadium neither are terrible. Basketball simply skews perception of what Wildcat football should be on a superficial level. 2009 National Champs, 3 Payton Winners, numerous notable NFL players, ranked #1 several times speaks for itself.


Villanova's rapid rise up the reputational ladder has been matched only by Southern California, who is stride for stride with UCLA at the edge of the Top 25.

Villanova and Temple have different audience but Villanova has clearly left St. Joseph's and LaSalle, two universities with some real struggles of late, in its wake.

[KPSUL]

Villanova is the program with the most pedigree left in the CAA as its presently constructed. They're the only program left in the CAA with a 1-AA/FCS National Championship. Towson of all programs is the only one left with a title game appearance. How many people would know that nugget? Villanova is an institution that has captured tremendous wealth over the last quarter century which has translated into great institutional wide success and additional leverage in decision making practices (I'd pay to be in a room with leaders from Fordham, HC, Georgetown and Villanova but then again I'm weird). As a Temple alum it pains me to say it but Villanova's rise is tangible. Temple has fared very well academically and campus infrastructure wise but just about everything else has been a disaster. While fans on here like to mock 'Nova's attendance and stadium neither are terrible. Basketball simply skews perception of what Wildcat football should be on a superficial level. 2009 National Champs, 3 Payton Winners, numerous notable NFL players, ranked #1 several times speaks for itself.

Villanova has been better than HC despite the Crusaders run under Chesney. They even beat HC head-2-head in the 2021 playoffs. If we're valuing moral victories (and I think it carries some weight given how good SDSU has been) Villanova put up a better fight in Brookings this past year than HC did out there in 2022. I must say, while I respect what Chesney did at HC it was not unprecedented outside of the 5-peat (Covid aided). HC really only had one playoff win of note (UNH) and one truly elite team (2022). Last year proved to be a rather big disappointment. Top 5 to nothing, similar to Lehigh in 2002 and Colgate in 2019 iirc. Speaking of Colgate, the Raiders had playoff wins over UNH and JMU in 2015 then was seeded and beat JMU again in 2018 in recent years.

UNH, W&M, and Albany seem well positioned to seize control of the CAA imo....if 'Nova were to leave (needed to add that caveat)...

Pedigree, control entity, institutional-wide success - got it.

I think many CAA fans know that Towson played in the National Championship in 2013. Their only other appearance in the FCS they lost a first round game. Personally I prefer to have a team that has made the FCS playoffs 15 out of the last 20 season, winning at least a dozen playoff games in the process and getting to Semi-finals twice and and the quarters twice. But that's just me.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Pedigree, control entity, institutional-wide success - got it.

I think many CAA fans know that Towson played in the National Championship in 2013. Their only other appearance in the FCS they lost a first round game. Personally I prefer to have a team that has made the FCS playoffs 15 out of the last 20 season, winning at least a dozen playoff games in the process and getting to Semi-finals twice and and the quarters twice. But that's just me.

I referenced Towson in general terms as they pertain to the FCS landscape. I think most would have guessed UNH and/or W&M as the other possibilities. Ironically, W&M lost in the semifinals to 'Nova in 2009.

UNH has had a very good program but they have yet to get over the hump like UMass, Delaware, JMU, 'Nova and Richmond did over the last 25 years or so. I definitely have respect for them as a program. With that said, they remind me a bit of the Northern Iowa of the Northeast. Granted, the Panthers do have a finals appearance.

BTW, controlling entity extends into their AD/leadership negotiating as both CAA/Big East or PL/Big East representatives. Villanova has experience working/understanding of media influence given their longstanding ties with with Fox/FS1, CBS, ESPN, etc. Plus, they have to ensure their college hoops position remains viable as college sports transforms so remaining cognizant of what is going on in the ACC and there other "P" conferences is part of their due diligence. This all fuses together to create greater leverage/power. Georgetown can relate...although they could use a few pointers from their Main Line colleagues. I would love for DFW to do a simple strengths/weaknesses comparison for Villanova and Georgetown.

[Go...gate]

Get better at football commensurate with the resources being provided.

In Georgetown's case, find a way to add funding to the program.

[NY Crusader 2010]

A fun thread. Interesting viewpoints abound 路*♂️ Great news for the PL and not particularly damaging to the CAA. My takeaway from the UR is amazement at the lightening fast decisions by PL Presidents to finally abandon the asinine redshirting ban. It would appear that negotiations have been going on for a while. It is no coincidence that non medical redshirting will be allowed starting in '25 when UR joins the league.
Nor is the CAA a sinking ship Axmittedly it is more of a conglomeration of disparate programs than a conference. It will sort itself out over the next few years. Given the current landscape, I would be surprised if UR is the only assoc. football member to leave.

I could be wrong, but I think it's less about Richmond strong-arming the Patriot League into a more favorable redshirt policy than it is recognizing the role COVID 5th years played for Holy Cross and Fordham two years ago. And again for HC last year, despite our disappointing failure to make the postseason. Pretty sure the Patriot League powers that be enjoyed seeing our stars go toe-to-toe with BC and Army for 60 minutes.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I referenced Towson in general terms as they pertain to the FCS landscape. I think most would have guessed UNH and/or W&M as the other possibilities. Ironically, W&M lost in the semifinals to 'Nova in 2009.

UNH has had a very good program but they have yet to get over the hump like UMass, Delaware, JMU, 'Nova and Richmond did over the last 25 years or so. I definitely have respect for them as a program. With that said, they remind me a bit of the Northern Iowa of the Northeast. Granted, the Panthers do have a finals appearance.

And they lost to JMU in the semis in 2004. UNH's best team lost to Illinois State in the semis in 2014 I believe.

[KPSUL]

I referenced Towson in general terms as they pertain to the FCS landscape. I think most would have guessed UNH and/or W&M as the other possibilities. Ironically, W&M lost in the semifinals to 'Nova in 2009.

UNH has had a very good program but they have yet to get over the hump like UMass, Delaware, JMU, 'Nova and Richmond did over the last 25 years or so. I definitely have respect for them as a program. With that said, they remind me a bit of the Northern Iowa of the Northeast. Granted, the Panthers do have a finals appearance.

We need to get back on the hump first, before we can get over it. I still don't see any team dominating the CAA in the near future. There's has been a lot of parity in conference the last few years and honestly, it's a lot more fun with JMU gone. At least half of the conference games, maybe more, are true toss ups. The only conference game UNH had last season that was not hard fought throughout was Stony Brook. I wish Richmond hadn't left and I hope Villanova stays, but either way, there will still be a lot of good football played in the CAA. You guys shouldn't wish Richmond too much success, you don't want to end up like 2016-2021 CAA, when JMU dominated. I believe JMU only lost 3 conference games out of about 44 in that stretch: One to Elon @JMU (and JMU stole their coach) and one each to UNH and Villanova on the road.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I could be wrong, but I think it's less about Richmond strong-arming the Patriot League into a more favorable redshirt policy than it is recognizing the role COVID 5th years played for Holy Cross and Fordham two years ago. And again for HC last year, despite our disappointing failure to make the postseason. Pretty sure the Patriot League powers that be enjoyed seeing our stars go toe-to-toe with BC and Army for 60 minutes.

Richmond doesn't move the needle enough to "strong arm" the league. However, as I stated (or believe), Villanova does have the "power" to force concessions on a longstanding policy or two. This is why many of us are patiently waiting to see if "all this" indeed paves the way for 'Nova to make the jump.

[KPSUL]

And they lost to JMU in the semis in 2004. UNH's best team lost to Illinois State in the semis in 2014 I believe.

And we lost to NDSU in the Semi 2013. Your right though, 2014 was the best Semi-final team. 2013 was a Cinderella Team. I remember being at a 20-0 loss @ W&M and sitting at 4&4. We ended up 7-3 and then played the well documented Lafayette vs UNH contest, beat CAA Champ @ Maine in the 2nd Round and Southland Champ @ SLU in the Quarters.
The 2014 UNH Team was the #1 Seed in the Tourny.

[Go...gate]

I could be wrong, but I think it's less about Richmond strong-arming the Patriot League into a more favorable redshirt policy than it is recognizing the role COVID 5th years played for Holy Cross and Fordham two years ago. And again for HC last year, despite our disappointing failure to make the postseason. Pretty sure the Patriot League powers that be enjoyed seeing our stars go toe-to-toe with BC and Army for 60 minutes.

+1

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

And we lost to NDSU in the Semi 2013. Your right though, 2014 was the best Semi-final team. 2013 was a Cinderella Team. I remember being at a 20-0 loss @ W&M and sitting at 4&4. We ended up 7-3 and then played the well documented Lafayette vs UNH contest, beat CAA Champ @ Maine in the 2nd Round and Southland Champ @ SLU in the Quarters.
The 2014 UNH was the #1 Seed in the Tourny.

UNH was also the #1 overall seed in 2005 when they lost to UNI in Durham. The Panthers would lose to App State in the title game. I always looked at the 2005 team as UNH's best because of the Santos/Ball connection. 2006 was suppose to be their year but UMass (who also lost to App State in the title game) beat them in the playoffs.

[Go...gate]

Colgate's President Casey, Chairman of the PL's Council of Presidents, is definitely a mover and shaker on athletics. A far cry from some of Colgate's previous Prexies, who openly advocated for Colgate dropping to Division III and joining the NESCAC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I could be wrong, but I think it's less about Richmond strong-arming the Patriot League into a more favorable redshirt policy than it is recognizing the role COVID 5th years played for Holy Cross and Fordham two years ago. And again for HC last year, despite our disappointing failure to make the postseason. Pretty sure the Patriot League powers that be enjoyed seeing our stars go toe-to-toe with BC and Army for 60 minutes.

Fordham also went toe-to-toe with a good Ohio team in 2022 then beat Buffalo last season. Two PL teams (Lafayette and Fordham) have already been noted for their potential to beat a pair of MAC schools this year. I would add that Colgate (vs Akron) gives the PL a chance to go 3-0 against the MAC. All things considered, for that to be possible is a damn good sign. At worst, the MAC would still be a very good FCS conference. The bottom teams really are awful though...

With all this said, the PL membership would do themselves a tremendous favor by getting at least two bids this year. Granted, outside of Lafayette everyone has daunting OOC schedules so it won't be easy.....

[Go...gate]

UNH was also the #1 overall seed in 2005 when they lost to UNI in Durham. The Panthers would lose to App State in the title game. I always looked at the 2005 team as UNH's best because of the Santos/Ball connection. 2006 was suppose to be their year but UMass (who also lost to App State in the title game) beat them in the playoffs.

IIRC, UNH beat a pretty decent Colgate team in the playoffs that year.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

+1

The PL also knows the need to adapt to the changing climate of Division 1 football. The league office is finally acting in a proactive manner to enhance their current membership's ambitions while simultaneously becoming a more attractive option to outsiders.

[Sader87]

Given its lineage, the PL should be a marquee conference at this level. Holy Cross, Colgate and Richmond played at the highest level of college football into the the 1980s. Fordham and Georgetown were national powers until dropping football post-WW2, Lehigh and Lafayette are obviously historic college football programs programs as well.

If anything, the Patriot League in football has undersold its place in college football over the years......much of that being cutting off its own legs to be sure, but (fingers crossed) hopefully we have finally turned the corner and as a league, will be entering a new golden era.

[RichH2]

Richmond doesn't move the needle enough to "strong arm" the league. However, as I stated (or believe), Villanova does have the "power" to force concessions on a longstanding policy or two. This is why many of us are patiently waiting to see if "all this" indeed paves the way for 'Nova to make the jump.

+1.

[bonarae]

From an Ivy fan's perspective...

With that in mind, the PL is making itself relevant on staying FCS on the Eastern end of things. The Big Sky and the MVFC, without a doubt, are more stable conferences west of the Alleghenies, and I hope the PL will finally join them as the cradles of Frisco trophyholders soon.

[ngineer]

Well my hybrid league (America East) is not happening so I hope Villanova joins the Spiders.

Good question. PL may prefer to have an even 8 teams that allows 3 OOC games. Any more adds, puts more restrictions on schedule flexibility. I see the academic index remaining. It was one of the driving issues in the League’s creation.

[ngineer]

4D chess conspiracy shower thought:
It's well known some university presidents hate football and would drop it as soon as those pesky alumni see the light.
The Patriot League commissioner said they'd probably cease operations rather than pay players. (which is inevitable, no matter how much fans complain.)

Richmond's president wants to drop football. By moving just that to the PL, when the PL folds the prez can announce that with the massive new athletic costs and no home for FB, we unfortunately have no choice but to drop it. All while shedding crocodile tears.

you aer correct about the PL not going for the “pay the players” model if that comes to pass, but the schools will still play football. I see them going back to the old ‘grant in aid’ model’, which doesn’t look bad compared to what may be coming down the tracks.

[ngineer]

We had a football alum Zoom call with Coach Cahill just a few weeks ago. Redshirting did not come up, and it most certainly would have if it was allowed going forward, post COVID years.
That said, the roster limits being gone and the schollie cap from 60 to 63 didnt really get much press. So, I could envision redshirts also not being given fanfare.
But, since its such a big issue, hard to imaging it wouldnt have had much more discussion with coaches, players, press, etc.

Looking for corroboration as its a big deal for many reasons.
One, we just plain need it.
Two, if it hasnt changed, the UR folks are going to lose their minds.
Again.

Agreed. I was on that call as well, and have no recall of that subject coming up, and I checked my notes. That is something I would have noted. Red shirting is the biggest reason the PL struggles against other conferences. The Richmond game a few years ago was classic example as the Spiders virtually had most of their starters 22-24 year old men and we had over half our players 18-20. Size, strength, speed and experience. Being able to red shirt should raise the PL level of play.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Agreed. I was on that call as well, and have no recall of that subject coming up, and I checked my notes. That is something I would have noted. Red shirting is the biggest reason the PL struggles against other conferences. The Richmond game a few years ago was classic example as the Spiders virtually had most of their starters 22-24 year old men and we had over half our players 18-20. Size, strength, speed and experience. Being able to red shirt should raise the PL level of play.

Redshirting was the driving force that led Lehigh and Delaware to stop playing iirc. Lehigh preferred the games later in the year to close the experience gap while Tubby wanted the meetings to be early in the year.

I'm interested to see how much of an impact redshirting has in the "Portal Era". It might benefit OL/DL (arguably the greatest need anyway) but in this day in age if you have a skill player who's talented it's probably wise to find a role ASAP.

[Ramblin' Man]

Good question. PL may prefer to have an even 8 teams that allows 3 OOC games. Any more adds, puts more restrictions on schedule flexibility. I see the academic index remaining. It was one of the driving issues in the League’s creation.

Fordham has played an 11 game schedule for many years now, and this year will play a 12 game schedule. Even with a nine team Patriot League, we will still have 4 OOC games, one of which will most likely be against an FBS team.

[Go...gate]

Fordham has played an 11 game schedule for many years now, and this year will play a 12 game schedule. Even with a nine team Patriot League, we will still have 4 OOC games, one of which will most likely be against an FBS team.

Right on. What we have to do now is find a way to keep Georgetown.

[The Boogie Down]

Had they continued to play football at the FCS level
But they didn't. As Sitting Bull now says, except for Richmond, "they've all moved up." They're not coming back and who knows what Big South/MEAC replacements are on the horizon. Sadly, the remains of the old Yankee Conf schools are taking the biggest hit. Let's hope you guys have a plan.xthumbsupx



Thanks, KPSUL. When I saw Boogie Downs 3AM rant, I just assumed he’d banged his head on the disco ball* too hard - maybe several times.

He’s right thought on my comments on Delaware.
So you don't see that you're on a sinking ship AND you don't see that not everyone is in your time zone? Wait a minute... Is W&M really sending us their best? Welp, at least you now do see that playing Western Kentucky is a "move up" from playing Campbell.



The Delaware move only looks good when compared to the fantasy dystopian CAA world our PL friends have created in this thread.
When you're playing Bryant and Delaware is going OCC against the AAC or ACC, let me know how good their move is.

* - Full disclosure, I am the proud owner of 2 disco balls. One was won at a '70s/disco-themed party and the other was left behind by someone else who won one at the same event. This happened 10+ years ago and the wifey still won't even let me take them out of their boxes. It's cool though, I'm playing the long game.

[The Boogie Down]

Villanova's rapid rise up the reputational ladder has been matched only by Southern California, who is stride for stride with UCLA at the edge of the Top 25.

Villanova and Temple have different audience but Villanova has clearly left St. Joseph's and LaSalle, two universities with some real struggles of late, in its wake.

I wouldn't say Villanova's rise has been all that rapid. I went to Fordham in the '90s and even then it was known that Villanova was a step above. Until recently USNWR had them in the "National Liberal Arts Colleges" category but even back then Villanova was considered more academically prestigious for under grads. As for SC, whatever the rankings say, most know they've not on par w/UCLA when it comes to academics. In fact, rumors have been going on for years that they've been gaming the rankings. Same goes for Columbia. Apparently though they're both genuinely good at pitching tents.

[Sitting Bull]

[QUOTE

When you're playing Bryant and Delaware is going OCC against the AAC or ACC, let me know how good their move is.
[/QUOTE]

Good Lord, this is thoughtless.

Actually, it’s Delaware that’s playing Bryant OOC this year. Second, you don’t have to join a dumpster league like CUSA to play anyone. We play UVA virtually every other year. Maine’s playing Oklahoma this Fall. The UD board erupted with OMG!!, we just signed up to play Coastal Carolina!! That’s our second game this year. Big deal.

You act like many of the other Delaware fans that somehow think your past crappy OOC schedules are someone else’s fault. St. Francis, Delaware State, Sacred Heart - the CAA didn’t force the Hens to schedule any of them. They did on their own.

And keep wishing for that sinking ship. If it’s sinking, only because so many jumped on. There are threads going back 20 years bloviating about how the CAA is going to implode. Yet it’s still stronger in every facet than the PL. it’s amusing to read at this point, especially when Hens think playing Kennesaw is going to help pull in new students from Georgia as justification. And that’s their leadership.

Your comments on Campbell can be excused for ignorance. It doesn’t surprise me you never heard of them as you breathlessly prepare for Gameday at Bucknell or Marist. Their Gameday and fanbase makes Fordham look little league. They actually have two sides to their stadium too.

As far as Richmond, those most upset about this shift are their own fans. That should tell you something,

[RichH2]

Agreed. I was on that call as well, and have no recall of that subject coming up, and I checked my notes. That is something I would have noted. Red shirting is the biggest reason the PL struggles against other conferences. The Richmond game a few years ago was classic example as the Spiders virtually had most of their starters 22-24 year old men and we had over half our players 18-20. Size, strength, speed and experience. Being able to red shirt should raise the PL level of play.

Makes sense that ADs and coaches would be aware of possible changes in PL redshirt rules. We can speculate that UR wouldn't have jumped without such a change. Holy Cross board only reference I saw that PL allowing non medical redshirts starting in '25.

[RichH2]

Z
As yetI can find no change in PL by laws concerning redshirting. Athletic redshirting still banned. If true,PL will eventually publish changes.

[caribbeanhen]

I wouldn't say Villanova's rise has been all that rapid. I went to Fordham in the '90s and even then it was known that Villanova was a step above. Until recently USNWR had them in the "National Liberal Arts Colleges" category but even back then Villanova was considered more academically prestigious for under grads. As for SC, whatever the rankings say, most know they've not on par w/UCLA when it comes to academics. In fact, rumors have been going on for years that they've been gaming the rankings. Same goes for Columbia. Apparently though they're both genuinely good at pitching tents.

I went to Fordham a few years ago, staggered across the street from the legendary food channel hyped Chuchifritos…

[Go Green]

Sooooo obsolete.

Bobby Bowden's Florida State teams proved that you can be nationally relevant while playing in a weak conference.

I'm fully confident that UNH will be just fine no matter where they are playing.

[Sitting Bull]

So you don't see that you're on a sinking ship AND you don't see that not everyone is in your time zone? Wait a minute... Is W&M really sending us their best? Welp, at least you now do see that playing Western Kentucky is a "move up" from .

Gameday at Campbell per Stadium Journey

Atmosphere 4
Campbell football is still a relatively new college football program, but Barker Lane boasts an atmosphere that many long-time programs would dream of. Even though the stadium is relatively small, the fans show up and the stadium has many modern amenities. The field at Barker-Lane Stadium is shiny new field turf that is outlined in black and looks sharp. One endzone says “CAMPBELL” and the other says “CAMELS”. The midfield logo is over 25 yards long and is an outline of the state of North Carolina that contains the Campbell logo. Just beyond the north endzone is a large 24’ x 42’ HD video board that shows live game action and video highlights. At the south end of the stadium is the W. Irvin Warren Center which houses the home and visiting team’s locker rooms. This is also where the Campbell football and lacrosse offices are located. There is a giant inflatable Campbell football helmet in front of this building, which the team runs through pregame.

Seating is available on both the east and west sides of the stadium. The west side has seating for 3,000, with 867 of these being chair back and the rest being bench back. At the top of the west side stands is the two-story Carley C’s IGA Hometown proud Press Tower that includes a President’s suite, two patios, and seating for the press, TV crew, home and visitor radio crews, and home of and visitor coaching staffs. The seating on the east side are just metal bleachers with no backs that are bricked in. This is the side where the marching band sits along with many of the visiting fans. We recommend sitting on the west side since all of these seats have a back and since the sun will be behind you as it sets and not in your face.

The Campbell marching band plays on the field pre-game and at halftime, and in the stands during the game. Even though the band is small, they add quite a bit to the atmosphere at Barker-Lane Stadium.

[Sitting Bull]

Gameday Fordham

Atmosphere 3
The game-day experience at Jack Coffey Field is average.

The Fordham pep band performs at Jack Coffey Field, and the cheerleaders perform throughout the game.
The scoreboard is nice but a bit far away since none of the seats face it. The cheerleaders, dance team, and band entertain the crowd, but the crowd is fairly laid back.

[crusader11]

I'm sensing that some of the longtime CAA stalwarts are going into panic mode...

[UNHWILDCATS05]

Where to begin with this post? First of all maybe save your smack talk for a season when you didn't have 5 loses. And Lafayette was absolutely handling Delaware until our starting QB went down with a broken ankle in the first half.

But forget all that, let's talk about the "dumpster fire" that is the Patriot League. No doubt the CAA WAS the cream of the FCS crop. No doubt the PL lagged far behind much to the frustration of its loyal fans. Don't look now but it would appear the PLs painfully measured approach to growth just might have been the correct course of action. We weren't flashy or exciting but we were consistent. We have standards by which we stood. You had to fit the profile to even be considered (UNH isn't even close by the way). Perhaps we clung to certain guiding principles a little too long. The scholarship limitations, the red shirt situation; those were real impediments to growth rooted in antiquated desires to be the Ivy League-lite. As you may recall we used to not attend the national playoffs. But those are obstacles of the past. The league now has the same level of scholarships. Effective next year we now allow for non-medical red shirts. This dumpster fire has largely stuck to its most important ideals while evolving all the while. Now we are a league steeped in tradition whose members still represent some of the finest colleges and universities in the country. And, seemingly, we are about to embark on a new chapter rooted in winning at the highest fcs levels. A chapter which compliments our history of consistency and rich football tradition very nicely

And where is the much vaunted CAA? You have no standards. You thought you were invincible even as you let in every Tom, Dick and Harry that could spell CAA. And while the fcs world anxiously awaits to see which school will follow the Spiders (Nova?, W&M?, both?), thereby making the eclipsing of the lowly CAA official, UNH can gear up for its match up with "Bob's Junior College and School of Typewriter Repair". Don't look now, Wildcat, you're dumpster is fully engulfed.

Welcome Spider fans. You guys are instrumental in the league's growth. It'll be more than alright in the long run.

Sent from my SM-F711U using Tapatalk


Other points aside... UNH did previously receive an invitation to join the Patriot League and declined (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/new-hampshire-was-this-close-to-joining.html).

[Sitting Bull]

I'm sensing that some of the longtime CAA stalwarts are going into panic mode...

You’re correct. Check the Spider sports board.

[Franks Tanks]

I wouldn't say Villanova's rise has been all that rapid. I went to Fordham in the '90s and even then it was known that Villanova was a step above. Until recently USNWR had them in the "National Liberal Arts Colleges" category but even back then Villanova was considered more academically prestigious for under grads. As for SC, whatever the rankings say, most know they've not on par w/UCLA when it comes to academics. In fact, rumors have been going on for years that they've been gaming the rankings. Same goes for Columbia. Apparently though they're both genuinely good at pitching tents.

I’m no college ranking expert, but USC seems to be buoyed by how popular it is rather than the rigor and quality of its academic offerings. It’s a “cool” destination school like NYU, Miami and SMU that gets a tremendous number of applicants. Compare these schools to a CMU or Case Western. Fantastic and “serious” schools that aren’t necessarily “the place to be” for the “cool rich kids”.

[Doc QB]

Z
As yetI can find no change in PL by laws concerning redshirting. Athletic redshirting still banned. If true,PL will eventually publish changes.
I texted Cahill yst.
Its real.

[gravalico]

Other points aside... UNH did previously receive an invitation to join the Patriot League and declined (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/new-hampshire-was-this-close-to-joining.html).Yeah that was when the league was a "dumpster fire".

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[UNHWILDCATS05]

Yeah that was when the league was a "dumpster fire".

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I believe the original comment was directed at academic standards, not success on the field. The academics of the Patriot League have never been considered a "dumpster fire".

[KPSUL]

I'm sensing that some of the longtime CAA stalwarts are going into panic mode...

Give it a rest Crusader! It's hard to trust your senses when you are acting senseless.

[Ramblin' Man]

Why all this chatter about UNH? This thread is supposed to be about Richmond joining the Patriot League in 2025. Posts about UNH are irrelevant.

[aceinthehole]

Why all this chatter about UNH? This thread is supposed to be about Richmond joining the Patriot League in 2025. Posts about UNH are irrelevant.

Why not? It's only fair that we all hijack a PL thread! 😁

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Gameday Fordham

Atmosphere 3
The game-day experience at Jack Coffey Field is average.

The Fordham pep band performs at Jack Coffey Field, and the cheerleaders perform throughout the game.
The scoreboard is nice but a bit far away since none of the seats face it. The cheerleaders, dance team, and band entertain the crowd, but the crowd is fairly laid back.

I've been to JCF for big games between Lehigh/Fordham and I always enjoyed the atmosphere. Fordham has a loyal, passionate fan base and the stadium itself is just big enough to get loud/have an engaging environment. The other thing of note, you're in the middle of the Bronx! Naturally, Fordham is going to be restricted by codes and such so everything must be taken in context. Watching a college football game with high-rise apartments serving as a backdrop, the hustle and bustle literally just outside of the stadium gates, the constant plane traffic from LaGuardia, etc. makes for a fun, rather unique day. There was a great ESPN video 20+ years ago of an extra point or FG ending up in a convertible on Southern BLVD.

Rose Hill follows the similar script. The biggest difference is RHG has significant historical value relative to JCF.

[RichH2]

I texted Cahill yst.
Its real.

👍👍 Just heard back from Cross buddy. Same . An asst.coach had passed the info on to alums.

[DFW HOYA]

 Just heard back from Cross buddy. Same . An asst.coach had passed the info on to alums.

When all is said and done, seven of the eight schools will redshirt.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yeah that was when the league was a "dumpster fire".

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"Dumpster Fire" might be a bit extreme but the league really hit the skids 6 through 7 from 2015-2021 or so. UNH absolutely made the right decision to stay the course assuming the PL was not going to yield ground when it came to important policies. I said back then someone needed to upset the apple cart to enhance the PL's chances to succeed while maintaining its core mission which is driven by the scholar-athlete, not the student-athlete. I thought New England public flagships like UNH, Maine, URI, plus Delaware would have been the perfect group to "balance things out" when it came to the overall PL applicant pool, athletic policy, geographical continuity.

One thing that must be considered are the recent NLRB decisions regarding private institutions. By keeping the PL all private (Army and Navy excluded) the membership seems well positioned to navigate the inevitable turbulent waters that are ahead. Likewise, with the IL (Cornell obviously a bit of an outlier).

[crusader11]

Give it a rest Crusader! It's hard to trust your senses when you are acting senseless.

Have spent time perusing various CAA message boards, and have seen more than a number of posts expressing uncertainty about the CAA. So, there is some truth to this, IMO.

[RichH2]

When all is said and done, seven of the eight schools will redshirt.

Yeah. What can PL do tho to help GU ?? Suppose GU old grey shirt or prep some recruits like the Ivies do now.

[DFW HOYA]

Yeah. What can PL do tho to help GU ?? Suppose GU old grey shirt or prep some recruits like the Ivies do now.

Georgetown, whether as rule or custom, doesn't redshirt except in track and field. As I understand, this allows freshmen not to run cross country before indoor track season, which by NCAA rule allows them a fifth year option in the fall at GU or elsewhere if they want to run CC after graduation.

[KPSUL]

Why all this chatter about UNH? This thread is supposed to be about Richmond joining the Patriot League in 2025. Posts about UNH are irrelevant.


No one from UNH brought up UNH in this thread. AGS members from the PL, or those posing as PL fans, did. We just responded when the wouldn't drop it. You might want to browse through a Thread before jumping into the fray. Just a suggestion.

[KPSUL]

Have spent time perusing various CAA message boards, and have seen more than a number of posts expressing uncertainty about the CAA. So, there is some truth to this, IMO.

College football fans who spend too much time on message boards are all statistical outliers - and that includes us! But check the UNH board. You won't see widespread panic, but then again we are a fairly benign group and not prone to over reaction. You have to join, although I think you might have posted a few times in the past.

Just checked the SpiderNation board. You have to go all the way to #33 post in the Thread to find a Spider Fan that's ok with the move to the PL.

[Ramblin' Man]

No one from UNH brought up UNH in this thread. AGS members from the PL, or those posing as PL fans, did. We just responded when the wouldn't drop it. You might want to browse through a Thread before jumping into the fray. Just a suggestion.

Please keep your suggestions to yourself, at least when they're addressed to me. I simply referenced the chatter about UNH, I never said who started it. However, once it started, you have been one of the most frequent, if not the most frequent, poster. You might want to browse the thread and see how often your posts appear. Just a suggestion.

[ElCid]

Given its lineage, the PL should be a marquee conference at this level. Holy Cross, Colgate and Richmond played at the highest level of college football into the the 1980s. Fordham and Georgetown were national powers until dropping football post-WW2, Lehigh and Lafayette are obviously historic college football programs programs as well.

If anything, the Patriot League in football has undersold its place in college football over the years......much of that being cutting off its own legs to be sure, but (fingers crossed) hopefully we have finally turned the corner and as a league, will be entering a new golden era.

I'm fairly sure lots of younger people have no idea about most of this info. Just a tidbit, my dad still reminisces to this day about all the games he saw between Syracuse and Colgate or HC back in the 40s.

[Go...gate]

Other points aside... UNH did previously receive an invitation to join the Patriot League and declined (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/new-hampshire-was-this-close-to-joining.html).

You mean back in 1994, when there were discussions between some of the New England A-10 schools and the Patriot League? I don't recall that any invitations were extended then. That is why Towson joined the PL.

[KPSUL]

Please keep your suggestions to yourself, at least when they're addressed to me. I simply referenced the chatter about UNH, I never said who started it. However, once it started, you have been one of the most frequent, if not the most frequent, poster. You might want to browse the thread and see how often your posts appear. Just a suggestion.

That will be quite easy in your case, as you contribute nothing to this forum. When you make your 82nd post in 11 years in three or four months from now, odds are I won't notice. I'll be like everyone else and just ignore you.

[Go...gate]

I'm fairly sure lots of younger people have no idea about most of this info. Just a tidbit, my dad still reminisces to this day about all the games he saw between Syracuse and Colgate or HC back in the 40s.

Some of us of a certain age still recall vividly when we were all Independents and the only outliers were the Middle Atlantic Conference (including the "Middle Three"), the Yankee Conference and the Ivy League. There was a good relationship between all of the participating schools. I sometimes get the impression that that relationship is not quite as good.

[Go...gate]

Why not? It's only fair that we all hijack a PL thread! 

:D
xthumbsupx

- - - Updated - - -


That will be quite easy in your case, as you contribute nothing to this forum. When you make your 82nd post in 11 years in three or four months from now, odds are I won't notice. I'll be like everyone else and just ignore you.

C'mon, fellows.

[Go...gate]

College football fans who spend too much time on message boards are all statistical outliers - and that includes us! But check the UNH board. You won't see widespread panic, but then again we are a fairly benign group and not prone to over reaction. You have to join, although I think you might have posted a few times in the past.

Just checked the SpiderNation board. You have to go all the way to #33 post in the Thread to find a Spider Fan that's ok with the move to the PL.

:) xdrunkyx xsmiley_wix