WAC/UAC rumors that could have ripple effects

[atthewbon]

IDK if you guys have seen any of the rumors around Stephen F Austin considering moving back to the Southland and the ripple effects it could have. Matt Brown's Extra Points reported on it and I have seen rumors on Twitter. Rumors are the other Texas WAC schools could be interested in joining the ASUN and the Utah schools could be interested in joining the Summit. Does anyone know anything about this? Would have an interesting impact on the FCS.

[UNAPride]

From D1.ticker:

Stephen F. Austin is “strongly considering a move back to the Southland Conference” and could potentially make an announcement to that effect as soon as this month, and Extra Points’ Matt Brown notes that “the exact whys are complicated, depending on who you talk to. Some industry sources have noted that [President Neal] Weaver was previously a VP for University Advancement at Nicholls State, and already has deep familiarity with many Southland institutions. Others have pointed to a desire to save money on travel, as well as instability and a lack of confidence in WAC/ASUN United and that organization’s long term future.” If SFA were to leave, Brown reports that “multiple WAC institutions will continue to do their due diligence on other conference membership options. Specifically, I’ve been told to monitor the Summit League as a potential destination for the Utah-based institutions, the WCC as a potential landing spot for Cal Baptist, and the ASUN or Southland as potential destinations for ACU, UTA and Tarleton, with the ASUN considered more likely than the Southland.” Also from Brown: “Industry sources close to WCC schools have told me multiple times over the last few months that while multiple member schools are strongly in favor of the conference adding Grand Canyon, the best basketball program in the league at the moment, it is unlikely that the Lopes can get enough votes from the entire conference to earn an invite. … I’m not ready to shovel dirt on any league. But I do think it’s fair to say that the WAC is in a very precarious position at the moment.”

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/conference-realignment-wac-defections-coming

[taper]

Assuming the Texas teams move to ASUN, I count 7 in FB and they can directly sponsor the sport. That leaves just the 2 Utah teams in UAC. If they go to the Summit we just hit the magical number 6 and sponsor FB too. MVFC is down to 7, which is fine. UAC folds, ASUN and Summit start new. Net gain of 1 AQ. The new MVFC might be a 1 bid league.
I think the Summit would welcome Utah teams with open arms. A few more baseball and soccer teams are desperately needed. Adding FB finally gets us above the minimum number of sponsored sports and adds a lot of stability.

[clenz]

That would be the best case scenario.

Summit gets their football and stability all around. That's good.
The MVFC still at 7 with other options to explore to grow past 7. That's good.
SLC and ASUN are stable.

Honestly, fairly solid all around.

I've said for years for Summit League football to be a thing either 1. the MVFC as it exists now has exploded or 2. the Summit essentially needs the southern and and western FCS to fall apart

#2 is, seemingly, happening.

Stability all around isn't a bad thing. A lot OOC games need worked out but that can be done with smaller conferences that are regional to each other.

[Milktruck74]

This would be a good thing. With all the crap and turmoil that is in college sports at the top levels, average fans (not the "collective" supporters...but real Johnny Lunchbox dudes) are looking for an alternative. Can FCS schools be that alternative? We would need some strong conferences that support all sports in order to be that. Nobody wants to support a team that may not be able to fill a full schedule or has no natural rival. So, while I'm a Southeast guy...this western/midwest thing has some impact on me too.

[SDFS]

I assume this is for all sports not just football affiliate type of arrangement (minus Cal Poly and CA-Davis). I would assume that three Utah schools would call Weber St and start talking to the Big Sky. It seems like a natural fit to tie in the footprint gap between NAU and Weber St. Maybe go to divisions: North and South.

North (7): PSU, EWU, UM, MSU, UI, ISU, UNC
South (7): NAU, U-Tech, SUU, Weber St, Poly, UC-Davis, Sac St. - Basketball keep UVU, Seattle and Grand Canyon. That would be a nice basketball conference.

Heck this seems like pretty tight from a geography stand point. Poly, UC-Davis, Sac St. and NAU all have historical ties to Utah schools. They could bring back the American West Conference
AWC - (Cal Poly, Cal St - Northridge, Cal St - Sac, UC-Davis, SUU)

UC-Davis won the conference in 93, Cal Poly in 94 and Sac St in 95.. Let's go.

Or They could go back to the Western Football Conference with:
Santa Clara
Cal Poly SLO
Cal State Northridge
Cal Lutheran (1985–1989)
Sacramento State (1985–1992)
Southern Utah (1986–1992)
Portland State
Cal Poly Pomona (1982)

My point being it seems like a group of schools have a long history together and they appear to finally have numbers to keep together a nice geographic fit for a conference at the D-I FCS level. I am sure any number of conferences would be willing to put a waiver on the AQ football bids and not sure that basketball bids are going to matter too much going forward. And heck just file a law against the NCAA to get the basketball bid - there track record in court is in your favor.

[Mike296]

That would be the best case scenario.

Summit gets their football and stability all around. That's good.
The MVFC still at 7 with other options to explore to grow past 7. That's god.
SLC and ASUN are stable.

Honestly, fairly solid all around.

I've said for years for Summit League football to be a thing either 1. the MVFC as it exists now has exploded or 2. the Summit essentially needs the southern and and western FCS to fall apart

#2 is happening.

Stability all around isn't a bad thing. A lot OOC games need worked out but that can be done with smaller conferences that are regional to each other.
If Summit football happens, I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought St Thomas into the mix since they are already Summit members in everything except Football and Hockey(If memory serves me right.)

[ST_Lawson]

That would be the best case scenario.

Summit gets their football and stability all around. That's good.
The MVFC still at 7 with other options to explore to grow past 7. That's god.
SLC and ASUN are stable.

Honestly, fairly solid all around.

I've said for years for Summit League football to be a thing either 1. the MVFC as it exists now has exploded or 2. the Summit essentially needs the southern and and western FCS to fall apart

#2 is happening.

Stability all around isn't a bad thing. A lot OOC games need worked out but that can be done with smaller conferences that are regional to each other.

I would really like to see this happen as well. A 7-team MVFC playing 6 conference games a year would make it much easier for us to schedule semi-regular OOC games against longtime opponents ILSU, UNI, and SIU. The MVFC is currently at 8 conference games in a regular season.

[clenz]

If Summit football happens, I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought St Thomas into the mix since they are already Summit members in everything except Football and Hockey(If memory serves me right.)
Possible, though they have shown zero interest in scholarship football thus far. The amount of money they are spending on their new basketball/hockey arena is going to make it hard to justify not funding those to the max they can, which likely hurts the idea of scholarship football.

Remember, these private PFL schools gain so much money from having non-scholarship football. FCS programs can give 63 scholarships out. They don't. That means funded FCS schools have to build 63 scholarships into budgets/expenses. These schools get those same 63 players but instead of budgeting scholarship expenses these schools pull in 50-60k+ in tuition from each of them.

Full anarchy, and I've throw this against the wall before, is the MVC adds UST(booting Valpo or Evansville) and somehow that gets UST and D+ to go scholarship football and make the MVFC just the MVC.

UNI
MOSU
MUSO
SIU
ISUR
ISUB
D+
UST
YSU - affilliate.

9 team league, true round robin.

[Mike296]

Possible, though they have shown zero interest in scholarship football thus far. The amount of money they are spending on their new basketball/hockey arena is going to make it hard to justify not funding those to the max they can, which likely hurts the idea of scholarship football.

Remember, these private PFL schools gain so much money from having non-scholarship football. FCS programs can give 63 scholarships out. They don't. That means funded FCS schools have to build 63 scholarships into budgets/expenses. These schools get those same 63 players but instead of budgeting scholarship expenses these schools pull in 50-60k+ in tuition from each of them.

Full anarchy, and I've throw this against the wall before, is the MVC adds UST(booting Valpo or Evansville) and somehow that gets UST and D+ to go scholarship football and make the MVFC just the MVC.

UNI
MOSU
MUSO
SIU
ISUR
ISUB
D+
UST
YSU - affilliate.

9 team league, true round robin.

It was just a thought. Some people would say these Pioneer League schools don’t belong in FCS and are only that in name. Some might say the same for the Ivy’s. UST at least already plays other sports in the Summit League and it wouldn’t hurt for the rest of the summit schools to at least give UST a call to see if they’re interested. It’s a pipe dream though given all the stuff you just mentioned.

[atthewbon]

I assume this is for all sports not just football affiliate type of arrangement (minus Cal Poly and CA-Davis). I would assume that three Utah schools would call Weber St and start talking to the Big Sky. It seems like a natural fit to tie in the footprint gap between NAU and Weber St. Maybe go to divisions: North and South.

North (7): PSU, EWU, UM, MSU, UI, ISU, UNC
South (7): NAU, U-Tech, SUU, Weber St, Poly, UC-Davis, Sac St. - Basketball keep UVU, Seattle and Grand Canyon. That would be a nice basketball conference.

Heck this seems like pretty tight from a geography stand point. Poly, UC-Davis, Sac St. and NAU all have historical ties to Utah schools. They could bring back the American West Conference
AWC - (Cal Poly, Cal St - Northridge, Cal St - Sac, UC-Davis, SUU)

UC-Davis won the conference in 93, Cal Poly in 94 and Sac St in 95.. Let's go.

Or They could go back to the Western Football Conference with:
Santa Clara
Cal Poly SLO
Cal State Northridge
Cal Lutheran (1985–1989)
Sacramento State (1985–1992)
Southern Utah (1986–1992)
Portland State
Cal Poly Pomona (1982)

My point being it seems like a group of schools have a long history together and they appear to finally have numbers to keep together a nice geographic fit for a conference at the D-I FCS level. I am sure any number of conferences would be willing to put a waiver on the AQ football bids and not sure that basketball bids are going to matter too much going forward. And heck just file a law against the NCAA to get the basketball bid - there track record in court is in your favor.

The Big Sky could make sense for the Utah schools but that's all of a sudden a really big conference. I find it interesting Matt Brown mentioned to keep an eye on the summit. Non football it puts the Summit at 12. Also adds what could be a travel partner with Denver in UVU. Football wise it feels like a weird fit. I don't see why a conference of SDSU, NDSU, USD, UND, Utah Tech, and Southern Utah would be that appealing to the Dakota schools for football. It would strengthen the stability of the Summit league but feels odd for football.

[Outsider1]

There hasn't been any known talk besides Matt's article. I posted a question about the Texas 4 getting together to join the ASUN to make a 16 member mid-major conference that kept the UAC together and stable at 7 qualifying members and 8 playing members instead of SFA going off on their own to join the SLC. With the ASUN's HQ move from Atlanta to Jacksonville, I don't think that is a good idea. It moves the power structure too far to the East, as well as takes the media market from a #7 city to a #41 city. I realize that with KSU gone, the ASUN didn't have a member school in/around Atlanta anymore, but that really doesn't matter in the world of the total conference. Atlanta helped center the conference as a whole and kept it in a good media market. Heck, Nashville would have been a better choice than Jacksonville. The ASUN's rankings weren't much better than the SLC, but the footprint was better and several people believed there was better potential in the ASUN. BUT, if the ASUN leadership is too focused on appeasing Florida schools and one city's reputation than growing its over-all brand...none of that matters and the WAC schools are better off somewhere else. The WAC's leadership is completely inept right now. ACU, Tarleton and UTA aren't saying anything about moving. The known stability issues of the WAC though are forcing the schools to have a plan B. UTA fans seem to prefer the MVC. I just personally thought it better for the 4 Texas schools to work together if the the Utah schools made a move.

[SDFS]

There hasn't been any known talk besides Matt's article. I posted a question about the Texas 4 getting together to join the ASUN to make a 16 member mid-major conference that kept the UAC together and stable at 7 qualifying members and 8 playing members instead of SFA going off on their own to join the SLC. With the ASUN's HQ move from Atlanta to Jacksonville, I don't think that is a good idea. It moves the power structure too far to the East, as well as takes the media market from a #7 city to a #41 city. I realize that with KSU gone, the ASUN didn't have a member school in/around Atlanta anymore, but that really doesn't matter in the world of the total conference. Atlanta helped center the conference as a whole and kept it in a good media market. Heck, Nashville would have been a better choice than Jacksonville. The ASUN's rankings weren't much better than the SLC, but the footprint was better and several people believed there was better potential in the ASUN. BUT, if the ASUN leadership is too focused on appeasing Florida schools and one city's reputation than growing its over-all brand...none of that matters and the WAC schools are better off somewhere else. The WAC's leadership is completely inept right now. ACU, Tarleton and UTA aren't saying anything about moving. The known stability issues of the WAC though are forcing the schools to have a plan B. UTA fans seem to prefer the MVC. I just personally thought it better for the 4 Texas schools to work together if the the Utah schools made a move.

I would hope that the Summit League would be much more interested in the Texas 3 or 4 (UT-A, ACU, SFA, and Tarleton St.) than the Utah 3 (SUU, UVU, Utah Tech). If the Texas schools need a conference home - please call the Summit League.

[SteelSD]

Well the dominoes have started to fall with Grand Canyon and Seattle to the WCC.

https://wccsports.com/news/2024/5/10/general-west-coast-conference-adds-grand-canyon-university-and-seattle-university-as-members.aspx

[Outsider1]

The current WAC leadership is too inept to save the WAC. I worry about the ASUN's leadership to help save the UAC at this point. No one is publicly talking yet from the Texas 4 but you know there are discussions. There will definitely be more movement to come in the upcoming days/weeks from Utah, Texas and California.

[WestCoastAggie]

I guess the NCAA is not going to permit a FCS conference from becoming FBS. This doesn't bode well for the SWAC's long-term vision.

[nodak651]

I guess the NCAA is not going to permit a FCS conference from becoming FBS. This doesn't bode well for the SWAC's long-term vision.

Debatable.

[atthewbon]

Now with Missouri State also leaving the Valley idk what I really want to happen as an SDSU fan. Best case scenario is joining the MWC. There have been rumors OSU and WSU try to rebuild the Pac 12 with MWC teams and that opens the opportunity for the Montana’s and xdsu’s to join the MWC. That doesn’t seem super realistic. Idk if I’d prefer the Summit taking the 3 Utah schools and maybe UNC and starting summit football or the status quo. I like the idea of strengthening the summit for basketball but Summit football with those teams is not as exciting as the MVFC for me.

If the P4/G5 split people have been talking about and seems inevitable happens and there are three levels of D1 football I really hope SDSU finds its way into the second level wether it’s by joining an already established G5 conference or creating a new one.


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