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DUPFLFan
November 19th, 2007, 02:16 PM
OVC is rated under the Pioneer League in power rankings and they get two bids to the Pioneer none (for the 15th straight year).

Guess things will never change...

Sagarin Ratings...
11. Southern (http://www.soconsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
12. Gateway (http://gatewayfootball.xosn.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=43210&DB_OEM_ID=7600&KEY=&SPID=2899) (FCS)
13. Colonial (http://www.caasports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700)(FCS)
16. Great West (http://greatwestfootball.cstv.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
17. Southland (http://www.southland.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
18. Patriot League (http://patriotleague.cstv.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
19. Big Sky (http://www.bigskyconf.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
20. Ivy League (http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
21. Big South (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
22. Mid-Eastern (http://www.meacsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
23. Southwestern (http://www.swac.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
24. Pioneer (http://www.pioneerleague.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
25. Ohio Valley (http://www.ovcsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
26. FCS Independents (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/conference?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700&confId=32)
27. Northeast (http://www.northeastconference.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700)(FCS)
28. Metro Atlantic (http://www.maacsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
downbythebeach
November 19th, 2007, 02:32 PM
I think the problem is that schedule, win or lose, is very important.

I have a problem with this too, as it seems in the eyes of many a lose to a FBS school is worth more than a win over a D-II school

If the PFL scheduled a lot of FBS teams out of conference it would appear that there were more competitive. It wouldn't mean they are any better teams, they would just be perceived that way.

Question: If Dayton schedules Ohio State, and Cincinnati out of conference, and loses both by 50, as opposed to wins versus Urbana and Central State do they make the playoffs?
Syntax Error
November 19th, 2007, 02:42 PM
Sagarin doesn't count non-D-I games and isn't definitive for FCS.
FCS Preview
November 19th, 2007, 02:44 PM
Sagarin doesn't count non-D-I games and isn't definitive for FCS.
He also doesn't differentiate for teams that offer 0 scholarships, 30 scholarships, 63 scholarships, 85 scholarships or any number in between. All teams are treated equally.
youwouldno
November 19th, 2007, 02:46 PM
If the Sagarins are right, that means the PFL really is screwing itself by playing so many non D-I games. Act like a playoff conference first, and then demand to be treated accordingly.
gophoenix
November 19th, 2007, 02:46 PM
Sagarin doesn't count non-D-I games and isn't definitive for FCS.

Oh wait, Sagarin doesn't count games that aren't supposed to count for FCS. So basically he leaves out those schools that are invisible and really don't matter?

So isn't that......

More accurate?
gophoenix
November 19th, 2007, 02:48 PM
He also doesn't differentiate for teams that offer 0 scholarships, 30 scholarships, 63 scholarships, 85 scholarships or any number in between. All teams are treated equally.

But that's something you were jsut arguing for a while ago. Playing an all D-I schedule is, after all, an all D-I schedule.

And now the spin starts to go the other way from the guys on the defensive.
FCS Preview
November 19th, 2007, 02:52 PM
But that's something you were jsut arguing for a while ago. Playing an all D-I schedule is, after all, an all D-I schedule.

And now the spin starts to go the other way from the guys on the defensive.
No, I'm saying that his rankings don't account for the different levels of D-I football. That, to me, has always been a flaw in his system. Is a team that goes unbeaten against 11 non-scholarship teams better than a team that goes 9-2 against all scholarship teams? Unlikely. But his system does not account for that.
GannonFan
November 19th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Just schedule more FCS teams, and good ones at that, and win. Respect will come with wins on the field - heck, look at the NEC, after Albany and C. Conn St put up some big wins over the past two years, there is a growing respect for the NEC. Heck, Albany at 8-3 was probably a better bet for the playoffs than a 10-1 Dayton, no matter what the Sagarins say about the strength of the each conference. Difference was, Albany went OOC and played more games against better teams. Until the schedules get better, you're right, nothing's going to change.
downbythebeach
November 19th, 2007, 03:06 PM
No, I'm saying that his rankings don't account for the different levels of D-I football. That, to me, has always been a flaw in his system. Is a team that goes unbeaten against 11 non-scholarship teams better than a team that goes 9-2 against all scholarship teams? Unlikely. But his system does not account for that.

I think you're missing something here

It should not classify by how many schollies a team has, it should simply rank by wins and quality of those wins....it does that
UAalum72
November 19th, 2007, 03:10 PM
No, I'm saying that his rankings don't account for the different levels of D-I football. That, to me, has always been a flaw in his system. Is a team that goes unbeaten against 11 non-scholarship teams better than a team that goes 9-2 against all scholarship teams? Unlikely. But his system does not account for that.
Of course it does. When the teams are connected, the supposedly stronger higher-scholarship schools will have more wins and will be rated higher. Results against all D-I teams count. It's the systems that don't account for SOS that have the real aberrations and in the past have had Duquesne in the top ten.

Check some of the ratings comparisons by Ken Massey
http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm

I especially like the ranking by this Mason guy
http://www.top100football.com/default.asp?file=default&pageid=Default
I don't know who he is or his methodology, but it's go to be the worst yet
1 Northern Iowa
2 McNeese State
3 Montana
4 Delaware State
5 Eastern Kentucky
6 Southern Illinois
7 Grambling State
8 Albany
9 Eastern Illinois
10 Liberty
11 Harvard
12 Dayton
13 Eastern Washington
14 Richmond
15 South Carolina State
16 Sam Houston State
17 Yale
18 South Dakota State
19 Missouri State
20 Youngstown State
21 North Dakota State
22 Villanova
23 Appalachian State
24 Cal Poly
25 James Madison
Syntax Error
November 19th, 2007, 03:12 PM
Oh wait, Sagarin doesn't count games that aren't supposed to count for FCS. So basically he leaves out those schools that are invisible and really don't matter?
So isn't that......More accurate?No, less accurate. You don't think all non-D-I teams are equal do you?
Syntax Error
November 19th, 2007, 03:14 PM
I especially like the ranking by this Mason guy xlolx xrolleyesx
gophoenix
November 19th, 2007, 03:32 PM
No, less accurate. You don't think all non-D-I teams are equal do you?

they are in the eyes of the 8 committee members.
Maroons
November 19th, 2007, 03:37 PM
The OVC will be better next year when we give Samford to the SoCon... xsmiley_wix

Kidding, kidding... mostly.
BigApp
November 19th, 2007, 03:39 PM
they are in the eyes of the 8 committee members.

apparently. xsmhx
BigApp
November 19th, 2007, 03:40 PM
The OVC will be better next year when we give Samford to the SoCon... xsmiley_wix



xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

negative rep points for you.........
Maroons
November 19th, 2007, 03:46 PM
xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

negative rep points for you.........

c'mon... can't make a little joke?
kfkolonel
November 19th, 2007, 04:39 PM
In fact, when Samford moves to the SoCon, BOTH conferences will improve. LOL
TheValleyRaider
November 19th, 2007, 06:01 PM
Sagarin Ratings...
11. Southern (http://www.soconsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
12. Gateway (http://gatewayfootball.xosn.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=43210&DB_OEM_ID=7600&KEY=&SPID=2899) (FCS)
13. Colonial (http://www.caasports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700)(FCS)
16. Great West (http://greatwestfootball.cstv.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
17. Southland (http://www.southland.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
18. Patriot League (http://patriotleague.cstv.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS) -------------------------------------> :D xnodx
19. Big Sky (http://www.bigskyconf.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS) -------------------------------------> xeekx
20. Ivy League (http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS) -------------------------------------> xthumbsupx
21. Big South (http://www.bigsouthsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
22. Mid-Eastern (http://www.meacsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
23. Southwestern (http://www.swac.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
24. Pioneer (http://www.pioneerleague.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
25. Ohio Valley (http://www.ovcsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
26. FCS Independents (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/conference?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700&confId=32)
27. Northeast (http://www.northeastconference.org/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700)(FCS)
28. Metro Atlantic (http://www.maacsports.com/?SPSID=43210&SPID=3829&DB_OEM_ID=9700) (FCS)
gophoenix
November 19th, 2007, 06:35 PM
Of course it does. When the teams are connected, the supposedly stronger higher-scholarship schools will have more wins and will be rated higher. Results against all D-I teams count. It's the systems that don't account for SOS that have the real aberrations and in the past have had Duquesne in the top ten.

Check some of the ratings comparisons by Ken Massey
http://www.mratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm

I especially like the ranking by this Mason guy
http://www.top100football.com/default.asp?file=default&pageid=Default
I don't know who he is or his methodology, but it's go to be the worst yet
1 Northern Iowa
2 McNeese State
3 Montana
4 Delaware State
5 Eastern Kentucky
6 Southern Illinois
7 Grambling State
8 Albany
9 Eastern Illinois
10 Liberty
11 Harvard
12 Dayton
13 Eastern Washington
14 Richmond
15 South Carolina State
16 Sam Houston State
17 Yale
18 South Dakota State
19 Missouri State
20 Youngstown State
21 North Dakota State
22 Villanova
23 Appalachian State
24 Cal Poly
25 James Madison

I don't think the Mason ratings are cumulative. I think they rate the schools based on the previous week's performance with whatever criteria.