GRASS FIELDS/LEHIGH

[MUHAWKS]

I thought about not posting this b/c it sounds like I am a whining little girl but I was obviously at the Monmouth / Lehigh game yesterday - and the grass field in the rain was borderline not safe. I cannot recall being at a game where as many guys went down. Some were obviously not related the to the field, but there were at least 30 instances where guys slipped in an odd way and when I say no less than 10 plyers down at some point with injury (both teams combined) I may be low.

We lost a starting OL to a leg injury and our safety left the game as well with a lower leg. On the last play of the game we lost another backup OL and had a few other guys down during the game on top of multiple people falling down in a weird manner- and when you are going full speed and/or trying to cut, it is not a good thing. Lehigh had multiple guys down at one point or another as well. I used to love grass b/c it just feels more natural and football like, but in this day and age it just seems to unsafe to play on grass when the field is wet. Or maybe this game was just ironic. But that field at Lehigh was not safe.

[ElCid]

I thought about not posting this b/c it sounds like I am a whining little girl but I was obviously at the Monmouth / Lehigh game yesterday - and the grass field in the rain was borderline not safe. I cannot recall being at a game where as many guys went down. Some were obviously not related the to the field, but there were at least 30 instances where guys slipped in an odd way and when I say no less than 10 plyers down at some point with injury (both teams combined) I may be low.

We lost a starting OL to a leg injury and our safety left the game as well with a lower leg. On the last play of the game we lost another backup OL and had a few other guys down during the game on top of multiple people falling down in a weird manner- and when you are going full speed and/or trying to cut, it is not a good thing. Lehigh had multiple guys down at one point or another as well. I used to love grass b/c it just feels more natural and football like, but in this day and age it just seems to unsafe to play on grass when the field is wet. Or maybe this game was just ironic. But that field at Lehigh was not safe.

It's not safe being pile driven by a 300lbs defensive lineman either. It's a hard sport. Grass is just another aspect. And by far not the most dangerous. What else should changed? Just trying to put it in perspective.

[JSUSoutherner]

One week: TURF ISNT SAFE, IT SHOULD BE BANNED. TOO MANY NON CONTACT INJURIES.

Next week: GRASS ISNT SAFE, IT WAS DRIZZLING AND IT WAS SLIPPERY, TOO MANY NON CONTACT INJURIES

What do y'all want to see the game played on? Asphalt?

[MUHAWKS]

It's not safe being pile driven by a 300lbs defensive lineman either. It's a hard sport. Grass is just another aspect. And by far not the most dangerous. What else should changed? Just trying to put it in perspective.


I hear you but think your quasi analogy makes no sense b/c it is a given that it is a tough sport where you get hit etc.. What is NOT a given is an unsafe field, especially when it is easily solved by turf. Sure, you could say that it only rains 1-2 x a year or whatever, but MOST teams have turf. In an already brutal sport why not make one risk lesser by an easy fix. To answer your question I am not sure much else should be changed off the top of my head. It is unsafe to play on a field where you cannot keep your balance. It is not "unsafe" to play football. It's like driving on the highway causes accidents every year but we all do it and deem it safe to do... but driving on the highway in the ice is flat out unsafe. Maybe that analogy is not great either but having turf makes the issue of what I am saying go away.. Not a huge deal just something that was glaring to see a dozen players go down and guys not being able to keep their feet.

[MUHAWKS]

One week: TURF ISNT SAFE, IT SHOULD BE BANNED. TOO MANY NON CONTACT INJURIES.

Next week: GRASS ISNT SAFE, IT WAS DRIZZLING AND IT WAS SLIPPERY, TOO MANY NON CONTACT INJURIES

What do y'all want to see the game played on? Asphalt?

Yeah, listen we all form our opinions in life based on our experiences- I rarely see non contact injuries on turn although I know it happens- Maybe just a bad day yesterday and I am basing my view on one game? Or Maybe Lehigh's grass is worse--- IDK but I never watch a game and am like "omg this turf is really changing the game"...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh has long been recognized for having one of, if not the best grass fields in the Northeast. That's not some "Lehigh fan hyperbole". I failed to see any issues with the field yesterday. Lehigh simply got physically beat up because their well being is literally being jeopardized by inept coaching.

[MUHAWKS]

Ok I am over ruled! Fair enough.. Wet grass where you cannot keep your feet is just part of the game. I am ok with it and willing to move on.. Thanks.

[MUHAWKS]

Lehigh has long been recognized for having one of, if not the best grass fields in the Northeast. That's not some "Lehigh fan hyperbole". I failed to see any issues with the field yesterday. Lehigh simply got physically beat up because their well being is literally being jeopardized by inept coaching.


You really think inept coaching is what it is?? Can you elaborate on what should have been done differently? I think they had an ok plan- try and stop the run (sort of succeeded) let Muskett beat us (he did) and offensively I mean what can a coach do, the talent is just not there.. I actually thought we played average at best and you guys gave us a stiffer test defensively than Nova for sure and Def Fordham.

[taper]

I wonder if different shoes/cleats should have been used. NDSU's old field was notorious for non-contact injuries, I'm one of them. There weren't a lot of options for removable turf at the time. Injury rate went way down after the trainers found a more appropriate shoe. Lots of visiting teams would buy them for this one game.

[MUHAWKS]

I wonder if different shoes/cleats should have been used. NDSU's old field was notorious for non-contact injuries, I'm one of them. There weren't a lot of options for removable turf at the time. Injury rate went way down after the trainers found a more appropriate shoe. Lots of visiting teams would buy them for this one game.

interesting. Possible for sure.

[Doc QB]

I was on field pregame. Footing was fine. Neither side seemed concerned nor complained.
MU beat up LU, our injuries were football not field.
Not as sure about your guys though, I don’t have same connections.
You guys were in control whole game and I thought graciously took foot off pedal.
MU has won last five of the ten meetings over us. Good luck rest of way.

[ElCid]

I hear you but think your quasi analogy makes no sense b/c it is a given that it is a tough sport where you get hit etc.. What is NOT a given is an unsafe field, especially when it is easily solved by turf. Sure, you could say that it only rains 1-2 x a year or whatever, but MOST teams have turf. In an already brutal sport why not make one risk lesser by an easy fix. To answer your question I am not sure much else should be changed off the top of my head. It is unsafe to play on a field where you cannot keep your balance. It is not "unsafe" to play football. It's like driving on the highway causes accidents every year but we all do it and deem it safe to do... but driving on the highway in the ice is flat out unsafe. Maybe that analogy is not great either but having turf makes the issue of what I am saying go away.. Not a huge deal just something that was glaring to see a dozen players go down and guys not being able to keep their feet.

"Unsafe" is in the eye of the beholder. Millions have played on grass with little issue the last 130+ years. Easily solved is also a matter of perspective. I'm sure if someone else offered to pay for the turf, Lehigh would be delighted. And I don't buy the "but turf is cheaper" argument. If you are trying to keep your field like a putting green sure, but not for most instances. And the whole driving on ice analogy is a bit off. Lots of people do it without incident. They are just careful. If grass is different, just play smarter and be more careful. We just got turf finally last year and I'm not sure it does prevent injuries. It may or it might just be anecdotal.

[MUHAWKS]

"Unsafe" is in the eye of the beholder. Millions have played on grass with little issue the last 130+ years. Easily solved is also a matter of perspective. I'm sure if someone else offered to pay for the turf, Lehigh would be delighted. And I don't buy the "but turf is cheaper" argument. If you are trying to keep your field like a putting green sure, but not for most instances. And the whole driving on ice analogy is a bit off. Lots of people do it without incident. They are just careful. If grass is different, just play smarter and be more careful. We just got turf finally last year and I'm not sure it does prevent injuries. It may or it might just be anecdotal.


Fair.. I may just be biased off this game for sure..

[Libertine]

I can't speak to yesterday but my own experience at Lehigh in 2011 after several days of rain was much the same as what MUHAWKS is describing in the original post. I wouldn't have called the playing surface "unsafe" necessarily but, that day, the scoreboard end of the field was a legit swamp from the 5-yard line all the way back to the locker room building. Their facilities crew had to put down plywood sheets over the worst of it so equipment could be wheeled in and out. Goodman may have lovely grass when it's dry or even under normal rain conditions but it might also have a lower saturation point where the field drainage struggles with extended precipitation.

EDIT: Let me add that turf fields that don't have proper drainage are just as bad as grass fields without proper drainage. One of the worst fields I've ever been on was our own turf field in 2009 v JMU. We transitioned from AstroTurf to FieldTurf in 2006 and the head of grounds cut corners by installing smaller diameter drainage pipes than were recommended. Everything was fine until, as above, an offshore tropical storm dumped rain on the area for three days straight and, mid 2nd quarter, we started to notice water in some sideline areas that wasn't going anywhere. By the 4th quarter, there was standing water from the sideline white out to the numbers and anybody running a jet sweep was basically speed-wading into a shallow pond. Frustrating night on the scoreboard and off. The turf was ripped up and the drainage replaced immediately after the season ended.

[ElCid]

I can't speak to yesterday but my own experience at Lehigh in 2011 after several days of rain was much the same as what MUHAWKS is describing in the original post. I wouldn't have called the playing surface "unsafe" necessarily but, that day, the scoreboard end of the field was a legit swamp from the 5-yard line all the way back to the locker room building. Their facilities crew had to put down plywood sheets over the worst of it so equipment could be wheeled in and out. Goodman may have lovely grass when it's dry or even under normal rain conditions but it might also have a lower saturation point where the field drainage struggles with extended precipitation.

EDIT: Let me add that turf fields that don't have proper drainage are just as bad as grass fields without proper drainage. One of the worst fields I've ever been on was our own turf field in 2009 v JMU. We transitioned from AstroTurf to FieldTurf in 2006 and the head of grounds cut corners by installing smaller diameter drainage pipes than were recommended. Everything was fine until, as above, an offshore tropical storm dumped rain on the area for three days straight and, mid 2nd quarter, we started to notice water in some sideline areas that wasn't going anywhere. By the 4th quarter, there was standing water from the sideline white out to the numbers and anybody running a jet sweep was basically speed-wading into a shallow pond. Frustrating night on the scoreboard and off. The turf was ripped up and the drainage replaced immediately after the season ended.

At least you didn't have a graveyard under your stadium.

[bmparrish1]

I hear you but think your quasi analogy makes no sense b/c it is a given that it is a tough sport where you get hit etc.. What is NOT a given is an unsafe field, especially when it is easily solved by turf. Sure, you could say that it only rains 1-2 x a year or whatever, but MOST teams have turf. In an already brutal sport why not make one risk lesser by an easy fix. To answer your question I am not sure much else should be changed off the top of my head. It is unsafe to play on a field where you cannot keep your balance. It is not "unsafe" to play football. It's like driving on the highway causes accidents every year but we all do it and deem it safe to do... but driving on the highway in the ice is flat out unsafe. Maybe that analogy is not great either but having turf makes the issue of what I am saying go away.. Not a huge deal just something that was glaring to see a dozen players go down and guys not being able to keep their feet.

Statistically speaking… grass fields are safer than turf. There is a much higher % of injuries, especially non-contact injuries, on turf fields.

[Southsider]

LU field was rebuilt in 2008, I believe. It has a drainage system (someone correct me if I am wrong). This is the first time I have ever heard of a concern about the turf. FWIW, you should have seen it before the rebuild. Rain meant a quagmire!

[DFW HOYA]

At least you didn't have a graveyard under your stadium.

At least you didn't have a roof under your stadium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kehoe_Field#Rooftop_stadium

Seriously, though, Lehigh may have the best turf in the Northeast. A great facility.

[crusader11]

Biased, but I’d take Holy Cross’ turf over Lehigh’s. HC grounds crew is spectacular and Fitton has always drained very well.

[ngineer]

I was at the Lehigh/Monmouth game and saw no problems with the turf. As pointed out by others, this field was completely torn up and engineered with new drainage and irrigation after it was a destroyed in a quagmire game versus Holy Cross around 2006. Players literally became 'stuck in the muck' at the northern end of the field. I have been on Lehigh's field many times and it is very well maintained. It is also covered before any anticipated major rain events. In speaking with a Monmouth fan, I learned that Lehigh's field was the only grass field that MU has played on in over a year. If they also practice on artificial surface, then I suggest the players were not used to the different feel and/or different cleats should have been used. I remember when I played, we had to acclimate if we played on an artificial surface, as they were few and far between. Penn's Franklin Field was horrendous. Like playing on concrete. Sod surface much more forgiving.

[MUHAWKS]

Well it seems I was vastly over ruled here haha-- all good , maybe I was being emotional. And maybe it was the fact that we are not used to playing on grass. But those that claim they watched the game must have missed the numerous plays where guys slipped and fell oddly, got injured and all the MU guys coming off to try and change cleats. The latter speaks to us maybe not having the right shoes and/or just not being used to it, so I will give the benefit of the doubt there and also chalk the 5-6 Lehigh players who were down at one point and the 3-4 MU guys to just random stuff. I have not seen as many injuries, small or large in one game in quite some time. How many times is the game stopped 10 times for injury? But honestly who cares, I will admit to being wrong not a big deal and def was not a slight at Lehigh facilities which are great. I was just emotional and could not think of ay other reason for so many guys going down.

I will say that we played pretty badly and feel like the game should have been like 52-7. If we play that way we will not win many more games this year. With that said, I thought Lehigh did an ok job at containing our offense. But offensively, they are just void of talent. A shame b/c such a storied program and a great gameday location (if it is not raining lol)...

[Son of Eli]

Lehigh has long been recognized for having one of, if not the best grass fields in the Northeast. That's not some "Lehigh fan hyperbole". I failed to see any issues with the field yesterday. Lehigh simply got physically beat up because their well being is literally being jeopardized by inept coaching.

Having been to both stadiums and walked on both fields I say Holy Cross has the best grass field in the Northeast.