AGS Poll Results - 2022 SEASON - Wk. 2

[AGSPoll]

9/12/2022




Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes


1
North Dakota State Bison
1272
49


2
Montana Grizzlies
1186
2


3
Montana State Bobcats
1134



4
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1133



5
Incarnate Word Cardinals
1010



6
Missouri State Bears
1002



7
Villanova Wildcats
980



8
Sac State Hornets
885



9
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
869



10
Chattanooga Mocs
745



11
Weber State Wildcats
722



12
Holy Cross Crusaders
709



13
William & Mary Tribe
637



14
Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
555



15
Eastern Washington Eagles
448



16
Jackson State Tigers
440



17
Rhode Island Rams
405



18
Mercer Bears
348



19
Eastern Kentucky Colonels
283



20
East Tennessee State Buccaneers
249



21
Southeastern Louisiana Lions
240



22
Samford Bulldogs
215



23
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
168



24
UC Davis Aggies
133



25
New Hampshire Wildcats
130
















ORV:




26
Richmond Spiders
117



27
Dartmouth Big Green
85



28
Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
75



29
Harvard Crimson
64



30
Austin Peay Governors
56



31
Elon Phoenix
36



32T
Furman Paladins
31



32T
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
31



34
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
30



35
Kennesaw State Owls
27



36
The Citadel Bulldogs
22



37
South Dakota Coyotes
20



38
Princeton Tigers
19



39
Southern Illinois Salukis
15



40
Virginia Military Institute Keydets
12
















Most Significant Win:
Incarnate Word Cardinals






Most Significant Loss:
East Tennessee State Buccaneers

[atthewbon]

This was my ballot.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Incarnate Word Cardinals
6: Missouri State Bears
7: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
8: Sac State Hornets
9: Weber State Wildcats
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: William & Mary Tribe
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: Holy Cross Crusaders
14: Jackson State Tigers
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Eastern Washington Eagles
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Mercer Bears
19: Richmond Spiders
20: Rhode Island Rams
21: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
22: Samford Bulldogs
23: Austin Peay Governors
24: UC Davis Aggies
25: Eastern Kentucky Colonels

[Professor Chaos]

This week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-2-top-25-results-4/

Couple notes of interest; this is Incarnate Word's second straight week of setting a new high in the AGS Poll and this is the highest that Montana has been ranked in the AGS Poll since they were ranked #1 in week 1 of 2010.

[wapiti]

Not much better than the Stat's poll in regard with EWU @ 15????

[POD Knows]

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/11/2022 9:18:21

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Incarnate Word Cardinals
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Missouri State Bears
8: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
9: Weber State Wildcats
10: Sac State Hornets
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Holy Cross Crusaders
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: Jackson State Tigers
15: Samford Bulldogs
16: Eastern Washington Eagles
17: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
18: Harvard Crimson
19: Princeton Tigers
20: New Hampshire Wildcats
21: Rhode Island Rams
22: Austin Peay Governors
23: Youngstown State Penguins
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Mercer Bears

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Missouri State Bears
6: Villanova Wildcats
7: Holy Cross Crusaders
8: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
9: Incarnate Word Cardinals
10: Eastern Washington Eagles
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: Harvard Crimson
13: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
14: William & Mary Tribe
15: Sac State Hornets
16: Weber State Wildcats
17: Princeton Tigers
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
20: Rhode Island Rams
21: Mercer Bears
22: Jackson State Tigers
23: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
24: Fordham Rams
25: Samford Bulldogs

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: Weber State Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[caribbeanhen]

Hate to admit it but Delaware is a little to high

Navy is really bad and Del State victories

we will know after the annual trip up to Rhode Island

Hello Caribbeanhen ,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 9/11/2022 7:04:43

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana Grizzlies
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
5: Incarnate Word Cardinals
6: Missouri State Bears
7: Villanova Wildcats
8: Sac State Hornets
9: William & Mary Tribe
10: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
11: Holy Cross Crusaders
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: Mercer Bears
14: Weber State Wildcats
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Harvard Crimson
17: Rhode Island Rams
18: Richmond Spiders
19: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: UC Davis Aggies
22: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
23: Princeton Tigers
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Jackson State Tigers

[Professor Chaos]

Not much better than the Stat's poll in regard with EWU @ 15????
A lot of preseason (and previous season) bias still this early in the season. I still have EWU in my top 25 because they haven't done anything yet that I'd consider damning enough to move them out. Tennessee St might not be as weak as we all thought seeing how tough they played Jackson St last Saturday. If EWU is as weak as some of you Big Sky guys are claiming this year they'll be exposed eventually.

[crusader11]

My guess is that this is the highest Holy Cross has been ranked in the AGS Poll since 11/16/09.

[POD Knows]

A lot of preseason (and previous season) bias still this early in the season. I still have EWU in my top 25 because they haven't done anything yet that I'd consider damning enough to move them out. Tennessee St might not be as weak as we all thought seeing how tough they played Jackson St last Saturday. If EWU is as weak as some of you Big Sky guys are claiming this year they'll be exposed eventually.
If JSU had rolled Tenn State I would have probably dropped EWU out of my poll or put them real close to the bottom.

[taper]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Montana Grizzlies
4: Incarnate Word Cardinals
5: Missouri State Bears
6: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
7: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Holy Cross Crusaders
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Sac State Hornets
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: UC Davis Aggies
16: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17: Mercer Bears
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
22: Eastern Washington Eagles
23: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
24: Campbell Fighting Camels
25: The Citadel Bulldogs

taper

The Most Significant Win: Holy Cross Crusaders
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers


Very curious how SDSU is #4 but UC Davis is #24, and ETSU still ranked despite losing to an ORV, who in turn lost to an unranked.

[wapiti]

A lot of preseason (and previous season) bias still this early in the season. I still have EWU in my top 25 because they haven't done anything yet that I'd consider damning enough to move them out. Tennessee St might not be as weak as we all thought seeing how tough they played Jackson St last Saturday. If EWU is as weak as some of you Big Sky guys are claiming this year they'll be exposed eventually.

Week 2 is probably a bit early to drop them out, but 15 seemed a bit high. (That may mean half of the voters had them higher than 15!) The polls normally take care overrated and under rated teams by week 5.
I was not impressed with EWU giving up 70 to a team who only put up 3 the week prior. (But when perennial top 10 teams in the country are part of the argument it makes it harder to determine.) It does not help that next weekend is a bye for EWU. So in 2 weeks the Bobcats will visit Cheney.

[KPSUL]

This week's poll article: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-2-top-25-results-4/

Couple notes of interest; this is Incarnate Word's second straight week of setting a new high in the AGS Poll and this is the highest that Montana has been ranked in the AGS Poll since they were ranked #1 in week 1 of 2010.

Both MT and UIW rankings are well deserved.

[TheKingpin28]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Montana Grizzlies
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: Missouri State Bears
7: Sac State Hornets
8: Incarnate Word Cardinals
9: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
10: Chattanooga Mocs
11: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
12: Eastern Washington Eagles
13: Holy Cross Crusaders
14: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
15: William & Mary Tribe
16: Weber State Wildcats
17: Jackson State Tigers
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: Rhode Island Rams
20: The Citadel Bulldogs
21: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
22: Mercer Bears
23: UC Davis Aggies
24: Richmond Spiders
25: North Dakota Fighting Hawks

That back half of the pole was a nightmare.

Also, while sdsu did not look good, they gave up 2 TDs in the final 5 minutes and playing competition in the early part of the season, teams need time to figure things out.

By week 4-5, as usual, the pole should he smoothed out.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[KPSUL]

Here's mine.

AGS Top 25 vote on 9/11/2022 WK 2

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana Grizzlies
3: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
4: Incarnate Word Cardinals
5: Villanova Wildcats
6: Montana State Bobcats
7: Missouri State Bears
8: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
9: Chattanooga Mocs
10: Holy Cross Crusaders
11: William & Mary Tribe
12: Sac State Hornets
13: Rhode Island Rams
14: Weber State Wildcats
15: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
16: Mercer Bears
17: Dartmouth Big Green
18: Jackson State Tigers
19: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
20: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
21: Samford Bulldogs
22: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
23: Eastern Washington Eagles
24: Yale Bulldogs
25: Richmond Spiders

[AGSPoll]

too

[FUBeAR]

9/12/2022




Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes



ORV:




32T
Furman Paladins
31




Sports Illustrated has a bit more love for the Paladins than this crowd does…
https://i.postimg.cc/RV4VDkjb/CAD06920-7-E74-4-D77-9914-4-D9709248754.png

[Chalupa Batman]

Here’s mine.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana Grizzlies
3: Incarnate Word Cardinals
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
7: Missouri State Bears
8: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
9: Holy Cross Crusaders
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Chattanooga Mocs
12: William & Mary Tribe
13: Sac State Hornets
14: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
15: Furman Paladins
16: Jackson State Tigers
17: Mercer Bears
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Richmond Spiders
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: UC Davis Aggies
22: Harvard Crimson
23: Rhode Island Rams
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Austin Peay Governors

The Most Significant Win: Weber State Wildcats
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers

[Professor Chaos]

My guess is that this is the highest Holy Cross has been ranked in the AGS Poll since 11/16/09.
Good call, I missed checking on that one... this is their highest ranking in the AGS Poll ever. They got up to #13 in weeks 9 and 10 of 2009.

[Tribe4SF]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Montana Grizzlies
4: Incarnate Word Cardinals
5: Missouri State Bears
6: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
7: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Holy Cross Crusaders
10: Villanova Wildcats
11: Sac State Hornets
12: Chattanooga Mocs
13: William & Mary Tribe
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: UC Davis Aggies
16: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17: Mercer Bears
18: Rhode Island Rams
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Richmond Spiders
21: Southeastern Louisiana Lions
22: Eastern Washington Eagles
23: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
24: Campbell Fighting Camels
25: The Citadel Bulldogs

taper

The Most Significant Win: Holy Cross Crusaders
The Most Significant Loss: East Tennessee State Buccaneers


Very curious how SDSU is #4 but UC Davis is #24, and ETSU still ranked despite losing to an ORV, who in turn lost to an unranked.

Glad to see someone else gave Campbell a vote. Saw them in person Saturday and they were good. Throttled The Citadel in week one.

[taper]

Glad to see someone else gave Campbell a vote. Saw them in person Saturday and they were good. Throttled The Citadel in week one.
Yeah. ETSU at 20 with neither Citadel or Campbell ranked is a total miss IMO.

[caribbeanhen]

Glad to see someone else gave Campbell a vote. Saw them in person Saturday and they were good. Throttled The Citadel in week one.

is Campbell versus Jackson State the game of the year?

[MTfan4life]

I'd be curious to hear the reasoning for why Mercer is #18 and VMI is just barely receiving votes.

[FUBeAR]

I'd be curious to hear the reasoning for why Mercer is #18 and VMI is just barely receiving votes.
FUBeAR’d be curious to hear the reasoning for why Montana State is #3 and Mercer is just barely in the Top 20.

MOREHEAD ST. (0-2 , 0-0) -VS- MONTANA ST. (2-0 , 0-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead St.
0
3
3
7
13


Montana St.
28
7
14
14
63



MOREHEAD STATE (0-1) -VS- MERCER (1-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead State
0
10
3
0
13


Mercer
14
28
14
7
63

[caribbeanhen]

I'd be curious to hear the reasoning for why Mercer is #18 and VMI is just barely receiving votes.

Cornell should put an end to VMI receiving any votes

[MSUBobcat]

FUBeAR’d be curious to hear the reasoning for why Montana State is #3 and Mercer is just barely in the Top 20.

MOREHEAD ST. (0-2 , 0-0) -VS- MONTANA ST. (2-0 , 0-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead St.
0
3
3
7
13


Montana St.
28
7
14
14
63



MOREHEAD STATE (0-1) -VS- MERCER (1-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead State
0
10
3
0
13


Mercer
14
28
14
7
63




When comparing teams, using a soft team that both teams being compared blew out is a poor metric. After a 28 point 1st quarter, continuing to try to pour it on would be in bad taste, same with being up 42-10 at half. I have no doubt both Mercer and MSU could have beaten Morehead by more than they did, had they wanted to. I also have little doubt that EKU would beat them by a similar final score, yet no one is clamoring about their placement at #19.

[JSUSoutherner]

FUBeAR’d be curious to hear the reasoning for why Montana State is #3 and Mercer is just barely in the Top 20.

MOREHEAD ST. (0-2 , 0-0) -VS- MONTANA ST. (2-0 , 0-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead St.
0
3
3
7
13


Montana St.
28
7
14
14
63



MOREHEAD STATE (0-1) -VS- MERCER (1-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead State
0
10
3
0
13


Mercer
14
28
14
7
63



This is an example of why no one takes the SoCon seriously.

[FUBeAR]

This is an example of why no one takes the SoCon seriously.
This post makes absolutely no sense.

[FUBeAR]

When comparing teams, using a soft team that both teams being compared blew out is a poor metric. After a 28 point 1st quarter, continuing to try to pour it on would be in bad taste, same with being up 42-10 at half. I have no doubt both Mercer and MSU could have beaten Morehead by more than they did, had they wanted to. I also have little doubt that EKU would beat them by a similar final score, yet no one is clamoring about their placement at #19.
So, you must be saying we have better objective comparative metrics to compare the #3 Ranked 2022 Montana State Team and the barely in the Top 20 2022 Mercer Team than both having home games against a common opponent 2 weeks apart?

What are those better objective comparative metrics?

FUBeAR thinks it’s only logical that the only better metric would be a head-to-head score, which we don’t have.

[mvemjsunpx]

Previous week in parentheses…


1. North Dakota St. (1)
2. South Dakota St. (2)
3. Montana St. (3)
4. Sacramento St. (4)
5. Montana (5)
6. Incarnate Word (7)
7. Weber St. (10)
8. Missouri St. (6)
9. Holy Cross (8)
10. Villanova (9)
11. Jackson St. (11)
12. Harvard (12)
13. William & Mary (13)
14. Mercer (14)
15. Tennessee-Chattanooga (17)
16. Delaware (18)
17. Eastern Kentucky (NR)
18. Dartmouth (20)
19. Rhode Island (25)
20. Tennessee-Martin (24)
21. Richmond (NR)
22. Austin Peay (NR)
23. North Dakota (NR)
24. Northern Iowa (16)
25. Eastern Washington (23)

Dropped - South Dakota (15), East Tennessee St. (19), Southern Illinois (21), Kennesaw St. (22)


W - Weber St.
L - East Tennessee St.

[JSUSoutherner]

This post makes absolutely no sense.

Yeah I didn't expect you to get it.

[FUBeAR]

Yeah I didn't expect you to get it.
There is nothing to get. It’s utter nonsense.

[ElCid]

This post makes absolutely no sense.

I know right. Maybe he was just lashing out irrationally.

[JSUSoutherner]

There is nothing to get. It’s utter nonsense.
I'll break it down for you.

You come out with a win over some nobody as a reason to respect your teams. You really think a team that has done **** all in their entire program history should be ranked with a team that was just in Frisco because you guys both beat Morehead State?

Yet in the postseason your conference gets dumped on harder than Jax State.

If you want to be ranked #3 instead of #20, don't beat Morehead. Try beating literally anyone of worth.

It happens every year. The SoCon is the most overhyped conference in the FCS and it isn't even close.

Let me know if I need to get my crayons to help explain it better.

[FUBeAR]

I'll break it down for you.

You come out with a win over some nobody as a reason to respect your teams. You really think a team that has done **** all in their entire program history should be ranked with a team that was just in Frisco because you guys both beat Morehead State?

Yet in the postseason your conference gets dumped on harder than Jax State.

If you want to be ranked #3 instead of #20, don't beat Morehead. Try beating literally anyone of worth.

It happens every year. The SoCon is the most overhyped conference in the FCS and it isn't even close.

Let me know if I need to get my crayons to help explain it better.
No need - you just described why what you originally posted is utter nonsense. The perceived gravitas of a Team or Conference is accumulated by the performances of those Teams on the field and the accomplishments they have attained. The commentary of an individual on a relatively narrowcast medium has had and will have absolutely zero effect on the accumulation of gravitas for a Team or a Conference. To ascribe such capabilities to an individual’s commentary, as you did in that post, while perhaps flattering, makes absolutely no sense; it’s utter nonsense.

[JSUSoutherner]

No need - you just described why what you originally posted is utter nonsense. The perceived gravitas of a Team or Conference is accumulated by the performances of those Teams on the field and the accomplishments they have attained. The commentary of an individual on a relatively narrowcast medium has had and will have absolutely zero effect on the accumulation of gravitas for a Team or a Conference. To ascribe such capabilities to an individual’s commentary, as you did in that post, while perhaps flattering, makes absolutely no sense; it’s utter nonsense.
You know what, you're right.

We should rank teams based on what they do on the field.

Considering the Morehead State win is Mercer's best OOC win since Hitler died, I think you may have a point in wanting them ranked higher. That's a big win for Mercer. It should be rewarded.

[FUBeAR]

You know what, you're right.

We should rank teams based on what they do on the field.

Considering the Morehead State win is Mercer's best OOC win since Hitler died, I think you may have a point in wanting them ranked higher. That's a big win for Mercer. It should be rewarded.
Hitler died?

[JSUSoutherner]

Hitler died?
Allegedly.

Rumor was he couldn't stand to live in a world without Mercer football.

[Professor Chaos]

A couple more poll history notes after updating my historical tracker:

It was a slow and steady climb but NDSU finally passed UNI for the most appearances in the AGS Top 25 with 222. The rest of the top 5 is UNI (221), JMU (217), Montana (216), and EWU (196). There have been 256 releases in the history of the AGS Poll.
Eastern Kentucky cracked the AGS Top 25 for the first time since Week 9 of 2015.

[MTfan4life]

Cornell should put an end to VMI receiving any votes

Cornell lost at home 31-21 to VMI last season, what makes you think they'll easily win on the road this year?

[MTfan4life]

FUBeAR’d be curious to hear the reasoning for why Montana State is #3 and Mercer is just barely in the Top 20.

MOREHEAD ST. (0-2 , 0-0) -VS- MONTANA ST. (2-0 , 0-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead St.
0
3
3
7
13


Montana St.
28
7
14
14
63



MOREHEAD STATE (0-1) -VS- MERCER (1-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead State
0
10
3
0
13


Mercer
14
28
14
7
63




So by your logic, San Jose State is 18 points better than Mercer, right? Portland State only lost to SJSU by 4. So maybe it's time to rank Portland State, you cowards!

[FUBeAR]

So by your logic, San Jose State is 18 points better than Mercer, right? Portland State only lost to SJSU by 4. So maybe it's time to rank Portland State, you cowards!
So, you don’t have any thoughts on the reasoning for why 2022 Montana State is #3 and 2022 Mercer is just barely in the Top 20 given their comparable scores / score differentials vs. a common opponent in a similar situation (home game) in a proximate time period?

Cool, if you don’t. FUBeAR couldn’t come up with any good reasoning either.

[MSUBobcat]

So, you don’t have any thoughts on the reasoning for why 2022 Montana State is #3 and 2022 Mercer is just barely in the Top 20 given their comparable scores / score differentials vs. a common opponent in a similar situation (home game) in a proximate time period?

Cool, if you don’t. FUBeAR couldn’t come up with any good reasoning either.

Excellent trolling, sir! Keep going!

[kdinva]

Cornell should put an end to VMI receiving any votes

You got a grudge against VMI? VMI could beat ETSU or similar by 40, you'd find fault.

[FUBeAR]

Excellent trolling, sir! Keep going!
Trolling uses inflammatory statements and often false information seeking argumentative responses.

FUBeAR often uses a message board-adapted version of the Socratic Method seeking inward reflection, contemplation, and, hopefully, enhanced critical thinking from his readers.

Do you think there is a difference in these…or nah?

[caribbeanhen]

You got a grudge against VMI? VMI could beat ETSU or similar by 40, you'd find fault.


no not at all, but that Bucknell game was ugly

[JSUSoutherner]

Excellent trolling, sir! Keep going!
It's fun because he'll keep screaming about Mercer until they end the year at 5-6 then he'll switch to screaming about how Furman got left out of the playoffs for only having 6 D1 wins and try to pimp getting dumped on by Clemson as a resume booster.

[dewey]

FUBeAR’d be curious to hear the reasoning for why Montana State is #3 and Mercer is just barely in the Top 20.

MOREHEAD ST. (0-2 , 0-0) -VS- MONTANA ST. (2-0 , 0-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead St.
0
3
3
7
13


Montana St.
28
7
14
14
63



MOREHEAD STATE (0-1) -VS- MERCER (1-0)



Team
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Total


Morehead State
0
10
3
0
13


Mercer
14
28
14
7
63



Montana State has been very good the last few years and have made numerous deep playoff runs. Mercer....has not. Top 25 polls early in the season rely heavily on the previous season final rankings. It is what it is. Tradition and history matter especially recent history.

I am sure you know this so I am not even sure why you are asking other than to be a troll, right?

Dewey

[kdinva]

no not at all, but that Bucknell game was ugly

don't remind me.....xbangx .... shudda/coudda won by 24+

[MSUBobcat]

Trolling uses inflammatory statements and often false information seeking argumentative responses.

FUBeAR often uses a message board-adapted version of the Socratic Method seeking inward reflection, contemplation, and, hopefully, enhanced critical thinking from his readers.

Do you think there is a difference in these…or nah?

So claiming a team that was a bubble team last year should be ranked as high as the runner up due to a similar result over a very weak opponent isn't using "inflammatory statements... seeking argumentative responses"? xlolxxlolx 10-4, good buddy. Carry on with your non-trolling. xsmiley_wix

If you were claiming that MSU should be lower than #3 due to losing 5 guys that either made or almost made NFL squads this year, or that our RB position is currently thin due to injuries, I would readily agree with that. But drubbing a very bad Morehead team doesn't earn Mercer a top 10.

[MSUBobcat]

Montana State has been very good the last few years and have made numerous deep playoff runs. Mercer....has not. Top 25 polls early in the season rely heavily on the previous season final rankings. It is what it is. Tradition and history matter especially recent history.

I am sure you know this so I am not even sure why you are asking other than to be a troll, right?

Dewey

Nope. Not trolling. Not at all. No way, no how. xwhistlexxdrunkyx

[FUBeAR]

It's fun because he'll keep screaming about Mercer until they end the year at 5-6 then he'll switch to screaming about how Furman got left out of the playoffs for only having 6 D1 wins and try to pimp getting dumped on by Clemson as a resume booster.
Unfortunately, some readers’ capacities are unable to process & they fail to absorb FUBeAR’s critical thinking Coaching methods.

[FUBeAR]

Montana State has been very good the last few years and have made numerous deep playoff runs. Mercer....has not. Top 25 polls early in the season rely heavily on the previous season final rankings. It is what it is. Tradition and history matter especially recent history.

I am sure you know this so I am not even sure why you are asking other than to be a troll, right?

DeweyObviously pre-season rankings must rely on most recent games/seasons as their primary source of information with Coaching changes, Players departed/arrived factored in, as well as other less obvious factors - scandal in program, changes in funding, etc.

Then, though, as soon as the 1st ball is kicked on Week 0, we begin to receive new, more relevant data. What happens on 9/3 is WAY more important than what happened on 1/7. But, we have a tendency to not want to accept and value this new and more relevant data because it makes us uncomfortable with the status quo, with what we thought we knew relying on old familiar, less relevant data. We develop all sorts of pretzel logic to rationalize our refusals to accept the new, more relevant data, such as a Team waxing #7 by double digits, but refusing to rank the ‘waxer’ because #7 runs an Option-based Offense.

The point FUBeAR has tried to, and is making is that Voters should be more willing and open-minded to accept new, more relevant data, even though it’s uncomfortable tossing aside pre-conceived opinions that were laboriously worked through. If those initial opinions were correct, that will be borne out by the even newer, even more relevant information that continues to arrive and can, nay, SHOULD be reflected in future rankings.

Early season rankings should vary extremely dynamically and that week-to-week variance should decline precipitously as Teams build a season’s body of work (just THIS season though - Wofford beating The Citadel in a 2nd round Playoff game in 2017 shouldn’t be a factor in any Voter’s rankings).

That’s not what we see though. We see propping up Teams with multiple bad losses because they have been good in the past and seem like they should be good soon. Great - re-rank them when they’ve shown they are. And, we see failure to move Teams up, especially if they are unranked (just too uncomfortable) after clearly big wins because they’ve been a poor Playoff performer in years gone by. If the win or couple of wins were flukes, cast them back into purgatory in 2 weeks.

Nothing you said in your post is wrong. Nothing in this post is factually wrong either. Both statements can be true and be in harmony. The discordance emerges when Voters rely too heavily and too long on the points you made, developing illogical mechanisms to rationalize their wrongful reliance vs. accepting the truth of the points FUBeAR has made…as is the current state of all FCS Polls.

[FUBeAR]

So claiming a team that was a bubble team last year should be ranked as high as the runner up due to a similar result over a very weak opponent isn't using "inflammatory statements... seeking argumentative responses"? xlolxxlolx 10-4, good buddy. Carry on with your non-trolling. xsmiley_wix

If you were claiming that MSU should be lower than #3 due to losing 5 guys that either made or almost made NFL squads this year, or that our RB position is currently thin due to injuries, I would readily agree with that. But drubbing a very bad Morehead team doesn't earn Mercer a top 10.FUBeAR made no claims regarding Mercer or Montana State in the post you have quoted or in the post you appear to be referencing.

A thought though…one would think that 3 weeks into the 2022 season (sort of nearing the end of the 1st Quarter), the relevance of relative Playoff statuses of 2021 Teams (that you cited) would have significantly reduced weighting in one’s rankings than they may have had in one’s preseason rankings. That’s only logical, right? If “last year” is the primary basis of a 15ish slot difference in 2 Teams, is that a ‘good enough’ of a differentiator at this point in the season?

[MSUBobcat]

FUBeAR made no claims regarding Mercer or Montana State in the post you have quoted.

A thought though…one would think that 3 weeks into the 2022 season (sort of nearing the end of the 1st Quarter), the relevance of relative Playoff statuses of 2021 Teams (that you cited) would have significantly reduced weighting in one’s rankings than they may have had in one’s preseason rankings. That’s only logical, right? If “last year” is the primary basis of a 15ish slot difference in 2 Teams, is that a ‘good enough’ of a differentiator at this point in the season?

When we are 3 games into the season, you will be more correct, but we aren't there. Why, when a good chunk of FCS teams have played 2 games where the outcome was easily predicted (i.e. one blowout vs FBS and one blowout vs a cupcake OOC), would you stray much from your initial preseason assessments? Once we get a couple FCS vs FCS games on everyone's resume, like after this week, I could see it. But taking your FBS beating and then bringing in your own Lil Sisters of the Poor really shows nothing. Much like early season polls.....

[FUBeAR]

When we are 3 games into the season, you will be more correct, but we aren't there. Why, when a good chunk of FCS teams have played 2 games where the outcome was easily predicted (i.e. one blowout vs FBS and one blowout vs a cupcake OOC), would you stray much from your initial preseason assessments? Once we get a couple FCS vs FCS games on everyone's resume, like after this week, I could see it. But taking your FBS beating and then bringing in your own Lil Sisters of the Poor really shows nothing. Much like early season polls.....
Valid for Mercer and also, but less so, for Furman (go watch the Clemson game and then come back and call it a “beating.” It appeared much more like a typical Clemson win over a good ACC Team).

However, this offers no explanation of the failure of FCS Poll Voters to recognize Samford waxing FCS #7 and far outperforming FBS #11 vs. FBS #1. Both those games had tremendous informative value for us and Samford should have been in the Top 15 in all Polls. But, FCS Poll Voters are opening another bag of logic pretzels to keep Samford out…because, “man, Youngstown really smoked them in the Playoffs in 2016,” or some such nonsense.

FUBeAR’s point isn’t that voters are conspiring against or have anything against Samford (those less astute readers will still read / regurgitate that as FUBeAR’s point). No - it’s that Voters act like they have chiseled their pre-season votes in stone tablets and it’s too much effort to move Teams in and out, particularly if they need a stepladder to move one of the upper teams.

Samford May, as they have so often, suck…but that’s not what 2022 data tells us. They should be Top 15 based on what they’ve done in 2022 and should be flushed as soon (and if) as we see they’re going to suck again. On the other hand, if they keep winning, they should start moving up … from 15 …. Not from 25 …. and that’s what REALLY matters. FUBeAR thinks we all know this, but we don’t really like to admit it…do we?

[EKUFAN]

A couple more poll history notes after updating my historical tracker:

It was a slow and steady climb but NDSU finally passed UNI for the most appearances in the AGS Top 25 with 222. The rest of the top 5 is UNI (221), JMU (217), Montana (216), and EWU (196). There have been 256 releases in the history of the AGS Poll.
Eastern Kentucky cracked the AGS Top 25 for the first time since Week 9 of 2015.



We (EKU)haven’t earned rankings in awhile. At times I may have thought we should have been, however you got to prove it when you don’t start out at the top pre season. That’s just the way it is.
I hesitate to say what we may have this year, I like this team, they play hard and seem to play with confidence, and we have some talent on both sides of the ball. Adversity first two games with head coach out because of a major hear attack (he’s back this week I hear). It’s been a long wait for our proud football program. Not going to complain where we are ranked. Keep winning and the ranking will come. As our legendary and Hall of Fame coach, Roy Kidd always said, act like you’ve been there before!
Go Big E! Cabin on the Hill……

[caribbeanhen]

I had Mercer at 13 Fubear

what you got?

[FUBeAR]

I had Mercer at 13 Fubear

what you got?
FUBeAR resigned his role as a voter for mental health reasons (that’s very popular these days … and makes FUBeAR a certified hero … so, no wisecracks).

13 sounds fine if FUBeAR was a-votin’ - really not sure they’d be that high though, but would have to do a full field assessment to know.

[Chalupa Batman]

Valid for Mercer and also, but less so, for Furman (go watch the Clemson game and then come back and call it a “beating.” It appeared much more like a typical Clemson win over a good ACC Team).

However, this offers no explanation of the failure of FCS Poll Voters to recognize Samford waxing FCS #7 and far outperforming FBS #11 vs. FBS #1. Both those games had tremendous informative value for us and Samford should have been in the Top 15 in all Polls. But, FCS Poll Voters are opening another bag of logic pretzels to keep Samford out…because, “man, Youngstown really smoked them in the Playoffs in 2016,” or some such nonsense.

FUBeAR’s point isn’t that voters are conspiring against or have anything against Samford (those less astute readers will still read / regurgitate that as FUBeAR’s point). No - it’s that Voters act like they have chiseled their pre-season votes in stone tablets and it’s too much effort to move Teams in and out, particularly if they need a stepladder to move one of the upper teams.

Samford May, as they have so often, suck…but that’s not what 2022 data tells us. They should be Top 15 based on what they’ve done in 2022 and should be flushed as soon (and if) as we see they’re going to suck again. On the other hand, if they keep winning, they should start moving up … from 15 …. Not from 25 …. and that’s what REALLY matters. FUBeAR thinks we all know this, but we don’t really like to admit it…do we?

I have certainly liked what I have seen from Samford up to this point and they deserve to be ranked. But wow you are really exaggerating their performance so far. I don't know if I would call winning a game they trailed after the 3rd quarter a "waxing." They did show well against Georgia and deserve recognition for that, but I don't think you can say they "far outperformed" Oregon in their respective matchups. Samford trailed 30-0 at halftime while Oregon trailed 28-3. Georgia took their foot off the gas far earlier against Samford than they did Oregon because Samford had absolutely ZERO success moving the ball (3 first downs the entire game) so the final score was closer.

[FUBeAR]

I have certainly liked what I have seen from Samford up to this point and they deserve to be ranked. But wow you are really exaggerating their performance so far. I don't know if I would call winning a game they trailed after the 3rd quarter a "waxing." They did show well against Georgia and deserve recognition for that, but I don't think you can say they "far outperformed" Oregon in their respective matchups. Samford trailed 30-0 at halftime while Oregon trailed 28-3. Georgia took their foot off the gas far earlier against Samford than they did Oregon because Samford had absolutely ZERO success moving the ball (3 first downs the entire game) so the final score was closer.
https://nationaltoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/pretzel-sunday.jpg

[caribbeanhen]

FUBeAR resigned his role as a voter for mental health reasons (that’s very popular these days … and makes FUBeAR a certified hero … so, no wisecracks).

13 sounds fine if FUBeAR was a-votin’ - really not sure they’d be that high though, but would have to do a full field assessment to know.

so voting was more of a headache than wrestling with Hard head JSUsouthern and The Millennial State guy? 😝

[Chalupa Batman]

https://nationaltoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/pretzel-sunday.jpg

Wow, what an extremely valuable contribution to the discussion.

[KPSUL]

In that video on the Samford @ Georgia game recently posted on AGS, they discussed the close personal relationship between Kirby Smart and the Samford Head Coach. No doubt he did what he could to keep the score down short of telling his players not to play hard. That game has no legitimate impact on assessing the Samford team either way.

[FUBeAR]

In that video on the Samford @ Georgia game recently posted on AGS, they discussed the close personal relationship between Kirby Smart and the Samford Head Coach. No doubt he did what he could to keep the score down short of telling his players not to play hard. That game has no legitimate impact on assessing the Samford team either way.
https://nationaltoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/pretzel-sunday.jpg

[gofurman]

I'll break it down for you.

You come out with a win over some nobody as a reason to respect your teams. You really think a team that has done **** all in their entire program history should be ranked with a team that was just in Frisco because you guys both beat Morehead State?

Yet in the postseason your conference gets dumped on harder than Jax State.

If you want to be ranked #3 instead of #20, don't beat Morehead. Try beating literally anyone of worth.

It happens every year. The SoCon is the most overhyped conference in the FCS and it isn't even close.

Let me know if I need to get my crayons to help explain it better.

I would say that KSU is the most overrated team and their conference is too.

To wit: Samford - a bottom to mid-tier SoCon team - just beat ol' KSU owls to start the season. KSU ALSO lost to ETSU in the playoffs last year.

Samford will NOT win the SoCon but they can still beat on old KSU. The Big South is a joke = SoCon has work to do but is probably about 6th best conference
of the 14. I think it is 14.

I know, I know, facts kill fun arguments

[OhioHen]

FUBeAR made no claims regarding Mercer or Montana State in the post you have quoted or in the post you appear to be referencing.

A thought though…one would think that 3 weeks into the 2022 season (sort of nearing the end of the 1st Quarter), the relevance of relative Playoff statuses of 2021 Teams (that you cited) would have significantly reduced weighting in one’s rankings than they may have had in one’s preseason rankings. That’s only logical, right? If “last year” is the primary basis of a 15ish slot difference in 2 Teams, is that a ‘good enough’ of a differentiator at this point in the season?

We're only two weeks into the season, not three (Week 0 is part of Week 1). Your argument here will become valid after this week's games.

[OhioHen]

Wow, what an extremely valuable contribution to the discussion.
Referencing his previous position that poll voters will twist into logical pretzels by posting a picture seems quite appropriate here and brings some levity.

The second posting of the picture may have been overkill, though. Just a reply with the words "pretzel logic" would have sufficed.

[FUBeAR]

We're only two weeks into the season, not three (Week 0 is part of Week 1). Your argument here will become valid after this week's games.
Nah - the point FUBeAR is making becomes valid as soon as toe meets leather in Game 1 of Week 0. As soon as we begin to receive newer, much more relevant data (visual, statistical, and/or ‘record-al’) about the Teams playing FCS Football THIS season, we should begin evaluating that data with much greater weight than last year, other prior years, and off-season data.

The evaluation of this data should be reflected, not denied with pretzel-logic, in the polls & rankings that are published after week 0 (some certainly are/were), and all subsequent weeks. It’s OK to be ‘wrong’ in the rankings published pre-season and it’s just as OK to be ‘wrong’ by moving Teams up and down ‘too quickly’ early in the season because the early season information that caused you to make these moves turns out to have been misleading.

FUBeAR’s argument is that “evaluate/respond-correct/re-evaluate/respond-re-correct” is mo’ better than “ignore/deny/grudgingly respond-correct” OR just don’t publish a ranking / vote / take & publish a poll after the pre-season version until after week 3, IF, as you are saying that’s when voters/rankers are ready to evaluate (vs. ignore/deny) the ‘this season’ data they have received to date against their pre-conceived notions.

[KPSUL]

No SoCon team has made it to FCS Semi-Finals since 2012, and the teams that made it that far ten plus years ago have long since left the conference for FBS. Since 2012, the SoCon has a lot of good football teams, it has rarely, if ever, had great teams. Currently, there may be three Top 25s in the SoCon, but not five which represents more than half the conference - no matter how many giant size photos of pretzels get posted.

[FUBeAR]

No SoCon team has made it to FCS Semi-Finals since 2012, and the teams that made it that far ten plus years ago have long since left the conference for FBS. Since 2012, the SoCon has a lot of good football teams, it has rarely, if ever, had great teams. Currently, there may be three Top 25s in the SoCon, but not five which represents more than half the conference - no matter how many giant size photos of pretzels get posted.
See Post #61


….and Rock City. You should always See Rock City.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Dlp9DaTXMM/W42q4OwRa9I/AAAAAAAAROk/q5jPQKWqpDEy425pdUEmKHEY8XF__B7twCLcBGAs/s1600/rockcity01.jpg

[MR. CHICKEN]

....AH'M CRAVIN'......MUSTARD....xdontknowx......BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

See Post #61


….and Rock City. You should always See Rock City.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9Dlp9DaTXMM/W42q4OwRa9I/AAAAAAAAROk/q5jPQKWqpDEy425pdUEmKHEY8XF__B7twCLcBGAs/s1600/rockcity01.jpg



WHERE'S DUH GENERAL LEE......xdontknowx......AWQ!

[TribeNomad1]

Enos, you dipstick!

[Twentysix]

who had holy cross in the top 15 before the season started? Big surprise!

[caribbeanhen]

who had holy cross in the top 15 before the season started? Big surprise!

had them at 18 pre season

Lets see how they do with Yale

[KPSUL]

See Post #61


….and Rock City. You should always See Rock City.



No thanks on #61, I've seen enough pretzels. But Rock City, that sounds interesting! Where's it located?

[Chalupa Batman]

Referencing his previous position that poll voters will twist into logical pretzels by posting a picture seems quite appropriate here and brings some levity.

The second posting of the picture may have been overkill, though. Just a reply with the words "pretzel logic" would have sufficed.

Ahh okay, I honestly had no idea what that was referring to.

But of course he’s not doing any logical pretzel twisting himself, amirite?

[OhioHen]

Ahh okay, I honestly had no idea what that was referring to.

But of course he’s not doing any logical pretzel twisting himself, amirite?
Of course he isn't. FUBeAR would never resort to such tactics.

[SU DOG]

I want to make a few things clear for the sake of accuracy concerning my team. I agree that Samford has not yet proven to be a top tier team. I also admit that historically we have looked like a powerhouse against some P5 teams only to lay an egg within the conference schedule. Also, the Georgia effort is hard to analyze because there is no way to gauge the mindset or focus of this opponent. But I also think that people who comment on the game should only do so after closely watching it. It is correct that our offense was totally inept against the Dogs' defense. However, it is totally inaccurate to say that Kirby took it easy on Samford and pulled the starters sooner than against the Ducks. The exact opposite is actually the case. Bennett was pulled at the 4:26 mark of the 3rd quarter vs Oregon but played until the 2:34 mark vs Samford. His replacement was Carson Beck, who carried the Dawgs downfield for a TD against the Ducks, but had to settle for a FG vs Samford. Think that Georgia didn't want more points? Then check out the end of the first half and explain those timeouts they called.

I do NOT say that our defense is better than Oregon's. I do think we played our guts out vs that high-powered Georgia offense, and I do think our kids deserve credit for what they did. To make inaccurate comments and try to analyze obviously without watching the game is totally unfair.

[FUBeAR]

who had holy cross in the top 15 before the season started? Big surprise!
HC started @ #19 in the AGS Pre-Season Poll. 19 ain’t so far from 15 - voters were most likely giving Holy Cross 2022 credit for a solid 2021 season, a nice (but expected) playoff win over an NEC squad, but mostly for playing, but losing, a very competitive 2nd round game against CAA Champion, Villanova. All fair enough, maybe. Not sure how much credit is due for losing a Playoff game…but FUBeAR gets it…kinda.

FUBeAR thinks the more interesting thing is that the Crusaders, apparently, sacked 4 villages while moving up from 19 to 15 in the Week 1 AGS Poll following their meh win over a different NEC squad that has no D1 wins in 2022 and was 5-6 in 2021. Why so much of a move up when only 2 Teams previously ranked above them lost to FCS Teams? That’s a poser, huh?

Then, as their 2022 crusade has pressed on, Holy Cross jumped up to #12 in the Week 2 AGS Poll after a close win over an FBS Team that is ranked 9th worst in FBS by Massey. 3 slot jump when only 1 Team in front of them lost to a lower ranked / unranked FCS is less so, but still somewhat of a poser. Apparently, winning an FBS game, regardless of how bad the FBS Team is rates huge ‘style points.’

So…now we have a Team that hasn’t really done all that much to be too overly impressed with (yet) in 2022 inching very near the Top 10, but a Team like pre-season unranked Samford, with an impressive double-digit win over AGS FBS #7 and an impressive performance (if only by their Defense) vs. FBS #1, can barely get ranked. The difference is not so much HC Love or Samford Hate or PL Love or SoCon Hate. The difference is where they started in the pre-season poll that relied on now-quite-dated info. It was a good poll on 8/1. It should be nearly meaningless on 9/14.

If HC beats Yale, @ 3-0, do they move into the Top 10? Yale hasn’t played a game yet this year and was 5-5 last year.

Meanwhile, if Samford goes into Cookeville and takes down undefeated (in FCS) Tennessee Tech, as expected (2021 Samford beat them by over 5 scores), FUBeAR thinks they might inch their way up to #21

Now - think about the overall body of work they would have and are building…without opening another bag of Mr. Salty’s - could you really say HC is clearly Top 10 & Samford is outside the Top 20? [HINT: “No” is the correct answer]. Maybe one or the other is a slot or 2 ahead or behind the other, but failing to properly recognize Samford’s win over #7 is a ‘wrong’ that will continue to be wrong for a while and the only way it would, possibly, get completely ‘right’ is for Samford to go undefeated the rest of the way.…and that ain’t happenin’ in the SoCon….or they could lose a bunch of games rendering that ‘failure to recognize’ moot.

[atthewbon]

I think Samford's win over Kennesaw st might say more about Kennesaw st being way over ranked to start the season than it does how good of a team Samford is. Not to say Samford shouldn't be ranked, I ranked them. I don't think preseason polls or previous seasons results should be meaningless in a poll, especially this early in the season. A poll is meant to rank the best teams not necessarily to show who has done the best this year, especially this early in the season. That's why I disagree with the notion that Montana st and Mercer are equal because they beat Morehead st by the same. Montana st in my mind is clearly the better team and would beat Mercer on a neutral field thus should be ranked higher than them even though they have similar early season results. I think a poll like this should be a combination of results and who the voters think the better team is.

[FUBeAR]

A poll is meant to rank the best teams not necessarily to show who has done the best
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/579fa3912994ca0eff850271/1541745390213-TR8VNZB6LJWBXZUWZZ46/Incredulity.jpeg?format=500w

[atthewbon]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/579fa3912994ca0eff850271/1541745390213-TR8VNZB6LJWBXZUWZZ46/Incredulity.jpeg?format=500w


Alabama has not looked great this year, they almost lost to an unranked team. Should Alabama not be a top 10 team in the fbs? No, everyone knows and still ranks Alabama as one of the top teams (They are #2). Tennessee has an as good or better "resume" this year, they blew out a bad team and they beat a ranked team (something Alabama hasn't done yet). You can't convince me Tennessee should be ranked at or even near Alabama. You have to use other factors such as previous year results or who you think the better team is. When it comes to selecting playoff teams then it is a different story but that's not what we are doing.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

who had holy cross in the top 15 before the season started? Big surprise!

I had them #10 in my preseason poll. The combination of talent, experience and Bob Chesney was certain to produce an elite level FCS team. I have firmly believed this was going to be the best PL team since Colgate in 2018.

People don't realize how good of a coach Chesney is. He might have the highest ceiling of any coach currently in FCS. If nothing else, he's going to be the "next" Dave Clawson or Lance Leipold.

[FUBeAR]

When it comes to selecting playoff teams then it is a different story but that's not what we are doing.
Aren’t we though?

It is FUBeAR’s firm belief that the Playoff Selection Committee relies VERY heavily (didn’t say entirely…said very heavily…no need to point out 1 or 2 anecdotal “proofs” where they differed from X, Y, or Z Poll) on ALL FCS Polls (not just the 2 they say they may consider) to determine Playoff Seeds & At-Large Bids.

If FUBeAR didn’t firmly believe ALL FCS Polls and Rankings bear a heavy imprint on the Playoffs, he wouldn’t give a rat’s rear end about any FCS poll. Further, FUBeAR thinks most poll voters & organizers also believe this.Take that piece FWIW.

[caribbeanhen]

HC started @ #19 in the AGS Pre-Season Poll. 19 ain’t so far from 15 - voters were most likely giving Holy Cross 2022 credit for a solid 2021 season, a nice (but expected) playoff win over an NEC squad, but mostly for playing, but losing, a very competitive 2nd round game against CAA Champion, Villanova. All fair enough, maybe. Not sure how much credit is due for losing a Playoff game…but FUBeAR gets it…kinda.

FUBeAR thinks the more interesting thing is that the Crusaders, apparently, sacked 4 villages while moving up from 19 to 15 in the Week 1 AGS Poll following their meh win over a different NEC squad that has no D1 wins in 2022 and was 5-6 in 2021. Why so much of a move up when only 2 Teams previously ranked above them lost to FCS Teams? That’s a poser, huh?

Then, as their 2022 crusade has pressed on, Holy Cross jumped up to #12 in the Week 2 AGS Poll after a close win over an FBS Team that is ranked 9th worst in FBS by Massey. 3 slot jump when only 1 Team in front of them lost to a lower ranked / unranked FCS is less so, but still somewhat of a poser. Apparently, winning an FBS game, regardless of how bad the FBS Team is rates huge ‘style points.’

So…now we have a Team that hasn’t really done all that much to be too overly impressed with (yet) in 2022 inching very near the Top 10, but a Team like pre-season unranked Samford, with an impressive double-digit win over AGS FBS #7 and an impressive performance (if only by their Defense) vs. FBS #1, can barely get ranked. The difference is not so much HC Love or Samford Hate or PL Love or SoCon Hate. The difference is where they started in the pre-season poll that relied on now-quite-dated info. It was a good poll on 8/1. It should be nearly meaningless on 9/14.

If HC beats Yale, @ 3-0, do they move into the Top 10? Yale hasn’t played a game yet this year and was 5-5 last year.

Meanwhile, if Samford goes into Cookeville and takes down undefeated (in FCS) Tennessee Tech, as expected (2021 Samford beat them by over 5 scores), FUBeAR thinks they might inch their way up to #21

Now - think about the overall body of work they would have and are building…without opening another bag of Mr. Salty’s - could you really say HC is clearly Top 10 & Samford is outside the Top 20? [HINT: “No” is the correct answer]. Maybe one or the other is a slot or 2 ahead or behind the other, but failing to properly recognize Samford’s win over #7 is a ‘wrong’ that will continue to be wrong for a while and the only way it would, possibly, get completely ‘right’ is for Samford to go undefeated the rest of the way.…and that ain’t happenin’ in the SoCon….or they could lose a bunch of games rendering that ‘failure to recognize’ moot.

When are you gonna do Jackson State ?

[FUBeAR]

When are you gonna do Jackson State ?
FUBeAR has delegated that task to Coach Prime

[OhioHen]

FUBeAR has delegated that task to Coach Prime
He's too busy complaining about how HBCUs get less money from the big boys than the not-quite-big boys get.

[crusader11]

HC started @ #19 in the AGS Pre-Season Poll. 19 ain’t so far from 15 - voters were most likely giving Holy Cross 2022 credit for a solid 2021 season, a nice (but expected) playoff win over an NEC squad, but mostly for playing, but losing, a very competitive 2nd round game against CAA Champion, Villanova. All fair enough, maybe. Not sure how much credit is due for losing a Playoff game…but FUBeAR gets it…kinda.

FUBeAR thinks the more interesting thing is that the Crusaders, apparently, sacked 4 villages while moving up from 19 to 15 in the Week 1 AGS Poll following their meh win over a different NEC squad that has no D1 wins in 2022 and was 5-6 in 2021. Why so much of a move up when only 2 Teams previously ranked above them lost to FCS Teams? That’s a poser, huh?

Then, as their 2022 crusade has pressed on, Holy Cross jumped up to #12 in the Week 2 AGS Poll after a close win over an FBS Team that is ranked 9th worst in FBS by Massey. 3 slot jump when only 1 Team in front of them lost to a lower ranked / unranked FCS is less so, but still somewhat of a poser. Apparently, winning an FBS game, regardless of how bad the FBS Team is rates huge ‘style points.’

So…now we have a Team that hasn’t really done all that much to be too overly impressed with (yet) in 2022 inching very near the Top 10, but a Team like pre-season unranked Samford, with an impressive double-digit win over AGS FBS #7 and an impressive performance (if only by their Defense) vs. FBS #1, can barely get ranked. The difference is not so much HC Love or Samford Hate or PL Love or SoCon Hate. The difference is where they started in the pre-season poll that relied on now-quite-dated info. It was a good poll on 8/1. It should be nearly meaningless on 9/14.

If HC beats Yale, @ 3-0, do they move into the Top 10? Yale hasn’t played a game yet this year and was 5-5 last year.

Meanwhile, if Samford goes into Cookeville and takes down undefeated (in FCS) Tennessee Tech, as expected (2021 Samford beat them by over 5 scores), FUBeAR thinks they might inch their way up to #21

Now - think about the overall body of work they would have and are building…without opening another bag of Mr. Salty’s - could you really say HC is clearly Top 10 & Samford is outside the Top 20? [HINT: “No” is the correct answer]. Maybe one or the other is a slot or 2 ahead or behind the other, but failing to properly recognize Samford’s win over #7 is a ‘wrong’ that will continue to be wrong for a while and the only way it would, possibly, get completely ‘right’ is for Samford to go undefeated the rest of the way.…and that ain’t happenin’ in the SoCon….or they could lose a bunch of games rendering that ‘failure to recognize’ moot.

Lots of truth in here.

It's not good when preseason polls largely determine how the top 25 looks in the first few weeks of the season. I'm sure many voters (and this isn't unique just to the AGS poll) use the preseason poll as the foundation and merely slide teams up and down depending on how they perform.

We are all largely guessing in for the preseason poll.

I do think that once you get into October, the poll begins to work itself out due to the results THIS SEASON...but there's no disputing the fact that the preseason poll has a significant impact on the top 25 in the first few weeks of the season.

That said, still think HC is a fringe top ten team based on what they did last year, who they brought back from last year's team (just about everyone), and what they've shown in the first couple of weeks. The Ivies, more than anyone, are the ones who get screwed. Harvard and Dartmouth are going to be top 20 teams by year end, but it's going to take them much longer to climb into that position than any other school solely due to the fact their week one is everyone else's week three.

Will be very interesting to see how Buffalo does at Coastal this weekend.

[FUBeAR]

Lots of truth in here.

It's not good when preseason polls largely determine how the top 25 looks in the first few weeks of the season. I'm sure many voters (and this isn't unique just to the AGS poll) use the preseason poll as the foundation and merely slide teams up and down depending on how they perform.

We are all largely guessing in for the preseason poll.

I do think that once you get into October, the poll begins to work itself out due to the results THIS SEASON...but there's no disputing the fact that the preseason poll has a significant impact on the top 25 in the first few weeks of the season.

That said, still think HC is a fringe top ten team based on what they did last year, who they brought back from last year's team (just about everyone), and what they've shown in the first couple of weeks. The Ivies, more than anyone, are the ones who get screwed. Harvard and Dartmouth are going to be top 20 teams by year end, but it's going to take them much longer to climb into that position than any other school solely due to the fact their week one is everyone else's week three.

Will be very interesting to see how Buffalo does at Coastal this weekend.
Thanks…

On the Buffalo @ Coastal result informing us about the relative strength of HC, we do need to recognize that Coastal had to come from behind late in the 4th quarter to edge out FCS Unranked Gardner-Webb. Coastal did beat Army, BUT Army is 0-2. Thus, the Army game with Villanova may tell us almost as much as Buff @ CCU. And if we really want to follow a comparative logic trail (which we should), Texas Tech @ NC State this week will tell a good bit about where we should rank Holy Cross.

[crusader11]

Doing comparative scores can get dangerous, especially the further you get away from the team(s) you are actually analyzing.

I'm not sure if I follow Texas Tech - NC State and how that would have any bearing on HC's ranking.

[atthewbon]

Thanks…

On the Buffalo @ Coastal result informing us about the relative strength of HC, we do need to recognize that Coastal had to come from behind late in the 4th quarter to edge out FCS Unranked Gardner-Webb. Coastal did beat Army, BUT Army is 0-2. Thus, the Army game with Villanova may tell us almost as much as Buff @ CCU. And if we really want to follow a comparative logic trail (which we should), Texas Tech @ NC State this week will tell a good bit about where we should rank Holy Cross.

If you haven’t already seen it you might love this https://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/path

It’s by no means a good way of ranking teams but it can be fun to mess around with.

[FUBeAR]

If you haven’t already seen it you might love this https://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/path

It’s by no means a good way of ranking teams but it can be fun to mess around with.
very familiar - lots of fun - always fun to piss off your FBS Friends & Family showing them how your cute, little school could whip their a$$e$…theoretically.


Doing comparative scores can get dangerous, especially the further you get away from the team(s) you are actually analyzing.

I'm not sure if I follow Texas Tech - NC State and how that would have any bearing on HC's ranking.
FUBeAR didn’t mention comparative scores, but those can be part of info that should be considered. No info is “dangerous.” Relying too heavily on dated and/or small small sample size/single point info can lead one to more limited, less well-reasoned conclusions.

Not exactly sure how FUBeAR got to that game being relevant…but he does know the data he was reviewing for HC, CCU, G-W, Army, and Villanova pointed him in that direction and it was the 1st game where he felt confident enough about NC State’s Team (some may disagree) that if TTU gives them a good game that will reflect back up the chain, telling us about Houston > UTSA > Army > CCU > Buffalo > HC (now he knows how he got there).

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/50/64/1026901327-tumblr_lmd0cmB3CZ1qe2v67o1_500.gif

[crusader11]

Six degrees of separation doesn’t really tell us anything. You’d be taking a major leap thinking that the outcome of Houston - Texas Tech has any meaning to HC.

Just out of curiosity, have you seen HC play this year?

[FUBeAR]

Six degrees of separation doesn’t really tell us anything. You’d be taking a major leap thinking that the outcome of Houston - Texas Tech has any meaning to HC.

Just out of curiosity, have you seen HC play this year?
Nope - not a voter. Don’t feel responsible to have to watch ranked/potentially ranked Teams. No interest in watching NEC or MAC games. Like PL Teams though. We’ll give ‘em a look soon. Enjoying watching the 2021 HC Offensive Schemes being run by the Crusaders’ former OC as he’s now in the OC role at Furman.

BTW - don’t think this question was implying FUBeAR has ‘downed’ HC without seeing them play. Have not ‘downed’ HC. Their ranking was noted as surprising by an NDSU poster and FUBeAR just took a look at their results & poll starting point/movement in relation to Sanford’s. Just as watching Furman play Clemson informed that the Paladins are a Top 20 Team, watching HC might convince FUBeAR they should be Top 10…or not.

[crusader11]

If you don’t mind Patriot League football, I’d check out part of the HC v. Yale game on Saturday. ESPN+. You might be surprised about the quality of football being played. Upper half of the Ivy League is legitimately good and can hang with much of the FCS elite.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I apologize for having Harvard a preseason Top 15 team. They very well might prove it over the next 9 weeks but after one night, not so much....

[FUBeAR]

If you don’t mind Patriot League football, I’d check out part of the HC v. Yale game on Saturday. ESPN+. You might be surprised about the quality of football being played. Upper half of the Ivy League is legitimately good and can hang with much of the FCS elite.
Went to the Yale Bowl to watch a not-very-good Mercer Team play Ivy defending & preseason projected Champion, Yale, in 2018. Neck-and-neck 1 score win by Yale on a field of a sandy/muddy quality that wouldn’t be allowed to host a PeeWee game in Georgia. And based on what FUBeAR saw from the Crimson tonight…can’t get too excited about the Ancient 8. Were probably on the rise pre-Covid, but FUBeAR has a sense that Covid-ness hit deep in the Ivy Patch.

Enjoyed the trip to New Haven and attending a game in the historic Yale Bowl, but they (all Ivy Teams) gonna have to win some before FUBeAR changes his mind on ‘em…in general.

[caribbeanhen]

Went to the Yale Bowl to watch a not-very-good Mercer Team play Ivy defending & preseason projected Champion, Yale, in 2018. Neck-and-neck 1 score win by Yale on a field of a sandy/muddy quality that wouldn’t be allowed to host a PeeWee game in Georgia. And based on what FUBeAR saw from the Crimson tonight…can’t get too excited about the Ancient 8. Were probably on the rise pre-Covid, but FUBeAR has a sense that Covid-ness hit deep in the Ivy Patch.

Enjoyed the trip to New Haven and attending a game in the historic Yale Bowl, but they (all Ivy Teams) gonna have to win some before FUBeAR changes his mind on ‘em…in general.

did you have any trouble finding a seat at the Yale bowl? Place is immense on the inside but looks like some type of water treatment facility on the outside

[caribbeanhen]

Cornell should put an end to VMI receiving any votes

Ivy over Southern ...

[Preferred Walk-On]

Ivy over Southern ...

Brown over Bryant. Appears to be the toughest conference from top to bottom. I'm sure it will be reflected by Massey. ;)

[caribbeanhen]

Brown over Bryant. Appears to be the toughest conference from top to bottom. I'm sure it will be reflected by Massey. ;)

The Ivies and the CAA Teams took a big hit in Massey

[MR. CHICKEN]

....IVIES GARNERED 7 UH 8....DUBBYA'S.......DUH LOST TA TOP 25......NOT SHABBY FO' FIRST WEEK OUT.....BROWN OVERAH BRYANT.....WHOM....WENT TOE/TOE...WHIFF FBS.......CORNELL ROPIN' VMI......AH'M AGHAST....xeekx...BRAWK!