QUESTION ON FBS SCHEDULING

[MUHAWKS]

I doubt anyone can think of a reason other than just spite, but we (Monmouth) were supposed to play Rutgers in 2020 and then... Covid! So fast forward to last year post season and we were given every indication by Schiano that this game would be back on for this upcoming 2022 season. They and we both had the date open. It was getting later and later and from what I know we were basically told by them it was going to happen. Then, without word from them, we saw Rutgers filled the date with..... WAGNER. For the last few years we have scheduled an FBS game and have one for the next few. Obviously for our program it is a big deal to get that 300-500k, especially since our home games do not make much. Other than Schiano just being a dick are there any real reasons certain FBS teams will not play an FCS team other than thinking they may lose? In this case I find it hard to believe Rutgers was scared of Monmouth. Why not keep the 350-400k in state? They are in the freaking BIG 10 I hope for their sake they do not view us as recruiting competition.

So what goes through these FBS schools minds when scheduling what is 99% of the time gonna be a win? I am talking about the obvious ones not the FCS/FBS where its 50/50,. As much as I am a Monmouth guy, a BIG 10 team really has no business not blowing a team like ours out, so can anyone think of any reasons? They waited so long we no longer had an FBS option and therefore the opportunity cost of 400k. What does choosing Wagner over an in state school do? Furthermore, a totally separate question, but when FBS hosts a regionally close FCS do they pay less if it is bus as opposed to plane or is a pay game roughly the same no matter what and the FCS school just makes more if they do not have to fly? Thanks..

[DFW HOYA]

FBS schools are free to schedule (and pay) less, but the exit language in the contracts is the key driver here. If Rutgers could save $100K by adding Wagner instead of Monmouth, that may have tipped the scales.

Is Fordham or Georgetown the replacement game? How much is Monmouth offering Georgetown to travel? Like most GU games, I'm guessing $0.

[KPSUL]

NDSU hasn't played any FBS games for a while, I'd assume they were having trouble finding FBS teams that wanted to play them. JMU also stopped scheduling FBS opponents a couple years before moving up - perhaps it was getting increasingly hard to find FBS teams to play. But JMU has been able to find FCS teams willing to come and play at Bridgeforth stadium without a return home game - giving them 6 home games a season and probably making up for not traveling to an FBS stadium for $$. Just guessing, but Roger Morris and Morehead State have both done this and a suspect JMU has paid them to show up like FBS teams do. UNH won 5 FBS games over 6 years 2004-2009 (Rutgers, Marshall, Ball St, Northwestern and Army) but didn't seem to have trouble getting one FBS game a year when the winning streak ended.

[Libertine]

So what goes through these FBS schools minds when scheduling what is 99% of the time gonna be a win?

Having been on both sides of this, I can tell you that the answer to your question is $$$. That's it. A couple things here:

* There's no incentive for an FBS school to care more about scheduling an in-state FCS opponent than an out-of-state one. If the two schools are part of the same state university system, there might be some minor internal political pressure for an FBS to play a particular FCS in the same system but that's rare and almost certainly doesn't apply here. For an FCS, playing against an FBS helps with recruiting but does nearly nothing for the FBS school in that regard other than showcase their facilities in a dominating win. For FBS, playing an FCS is about putting on a good show for the fans while getting one step closer to bowl eligibility. The fact that the FCS might come from West Long Branch or Staten Island won't enter into Rutgers' math.

* There is no set rate for travel costs and FBS schools don't care how far the FCS school travels or their method of transportation. FCS schools typically either negotiate travel costs into the game contract or ask for a big enough payout to adequately cover travel expenses on their own. Having said that, an FCS team that is geographically closer to their FBS host will likely have lower travel expenses and, therefore, is more likely to negotiate a lower overall payday than a team that has to travel further. Bear in mind that travel expenses are not just fuel and transport (bus/plane) but also hotel and food costs, two items that are directly impacted by the size of the travel party (ie., the number of players, number of coaches, number of trainers/equipment managers/video personnel/administrators, etc., that travel to the game as part of the program). In my experience, schools out of the NEC typically travel lighter than their counterparts in the CAA so, even though the distance to Camden might be roughly equal between Wagner and Monmouth, Wagner would probably require less money in travel costs.

* At FBS schools, the head coach's preference hardly ever enters into whether to play one FCS school over another -- at least, it matters less so than at the FCS level. Schiano is known as a micromanager so it's possible that he may have demanded input into which FCS school they line up against but, typically, non-conference scheduling at the FBS level is an administrative matter done years in advance so it's rare that the football coach is even consulted. For example, Chris Peterson was an absolute legend at Washington and he had zero input into the Huskies' scheduling.

* Game contracts and dates are re-negotiated constantly by both parties as circumstances change. Given the amount of scheduling upheaval for Rutgers (COVID plus now adding two more members to the B1G) as well as for Monmouth (COVID plus moving from the Big South to the larger CAA), it should not be surprising that game dates might have been moved around or kicked down the road to a date yet to be determined. From what I've seen, it's just as likely that an FCS asks an FBS to move the game as it is that an FBS asks an FCS to move it. However, game contracts are binding agreements and, assuming that the two schools had a signed contract, they can expect to negotiate an alternative game date that fits both schools' new circumstances or to negotiate a buyout of the game contract. So, because Rutgers is playing Wagner this year and not Monmouth does not necessarily mean that they won't play Monmouth in the future or that Schiano is being petty; while both of those things are technically possible, the answer to your frustration is probably something much more innocuous like RU and MU just not having their calendars fully in order yet.

I hope that helps.

[Libertine]

Incidentally, everything I just posted above ^^^ from the standpoint of negotiating FBS vs. FCS non-conference games, applies equally -- albeit in smaller proportions -- to non-conference scheduling from an FCS vs. D2/D3/NAIA perspective.

[caribbeanhen]

Incidentally, everything I just posted above ^^^ from the standpoint of negotiating FBS vs. FCS non-conference games, applies equally -- albeit in smaller proportions -- to non-conference scheduling from an FCS vs. D2/D3/NAIA perspective.

Are the schedulers pricing inflation into the negotiations? By 2026, $350,000 wont even cover expenses

[MUHAWKS]

Great replies by all thank you!!

[MUHAWKS]

FBS schools are free to schedule (and pay) less, but the exit language in the contracts is the key driver here. If Rutgers could save $100K by adding Wagner instead of Monmouth, that may have tipped the scales.

Is Fordham or Georgetown the replacement game? How much is Monmouth offering Georgetown to travel? Like most GU games, I'm guessing $0.

Yes my man I think it was Georgetown actually and then we just flipped dates of Fordham and you guys.. But 99% sure the "FBS filler" was Gtown..We played AT Fordham last year pretty sure that was already scheduled.I doubt MU pays anyone to travel to them but now that we are in the CAA it may change? I am not 100% sure. Are the Hoyas any better this year? For a brief minute it looked like they might be turning the corner.. I was at a Columbia game (NYC) where The Hoyas won and Columbia was decent that year.

[DFW HOYA]

Are the Hoyas any better this year? For a brief minute it looked like they might be turning the corner.. I was at a Columbia game (NYC) where The Hoyas won and Columbia was decent that year.

Just a fan talking but...no.

The Patriot League is strangling Georgetown football--players can't get admitted, and now the portal is taking a bite out of those that are left. Twenty losing seasons since 1999 is a hill to climb to attract any impact recruits, and it's not competitive with local kids when you have to pay to attend and every other PL school offers free rides. To add to the struggle, three assistants left. It's mid July and Georgetown hasn't released a 2022 roster--that says something.

[Professor Chaos]

I think another thing that's causing it to be tougher to schedule FBS games is there's more FCS schools than ever that try to schedule 2 FBS games (and some even 3) which makes the competition for spots on FBS schedules for FCS teams that much tougher (since FBS teams still only get one FCS win to count towards bowl eligibility). So FBS teams have more options on who to play and can even low-ball FCS teams if they want to until they find the first one willing to take their offer. So in your case it could be Monmouth wanted more guaranteed dollars for the make-up game since, like caribhen mentioned, a dollar in 2023 doesn't go as far as it did in 2020 and Rutgers wasn't willing to commit so they found another team (Wagner) willing to play for the reduced guarantee.

I don't have data to back it up beyond my observations which relies on my hazy recollection that FCS teams playing multiple FBS games was very rare up until the last 5-8 years or so.

EDIT: I know NDSU's 2020 game with Oregon was rescheduled to 2028 and I think NDSU gave Oregon a pretty big discount to keep it - I believe they would've gotten $650k for the 2020 game and are only getting $675k for the 2028 game.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Incidentally, everything I just posted above ^^^ from the standpoint of negotiating FBS vs. FCS non-conference games, applies equally -- albeit in smaller proportions -- to non-conference scheduling from an FCS vs. D2/D3/NAIA perspective.
Except there is a hard penalty for FCS playing down a division. There is no real penalty for FBS playing down to FCS. And most do it for the win .. so not even a soft penalty since most do it.

[bonarae]

Except there is a hard penalty for FCS playing down a division. There is no real penalty for FBS playing down to FCS. And most do it for the win .. so not even a soft penalty since most do it.

What is that hard penalty? Is it in the NCAA rulebook?

[DFW HOYA]

Except there is a hard penalty for FCS playing down a division. There is no real penalty for FBS playing down to FCS. And most do it for the win .. so not even a soft penalty since most do it.

A number of schools do this. What is the penalty?

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

MUHAWKS, here is info on what Maine is collecting from NDSU and FIU and what it is paying to have LIU visit Maine, a 400 mile bus ride for them.
Maine has had to schedule 2 FBS schools for at least 10 years for revenue purposes. I realize next year is only one FBS opponent but the caliber of the other FCS is superior to alot of FBS teams.

8/31 (Thu) - at Florida International
9/9 - at North Dakota State
10/14 - Long Island

fbschedules.com/maine-to-play-at-florida-international-host-long-island-in-2023/ (http://redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=7259828&u=https%3A//fbschedules.com/maine-to-play-at-florida-international-host-long-island-in-2023/)

[taper]

A number of schools do this. What is the penalty?
In practice, an FBS team either wins a P5 conference and goes to a meaningful bowl game, or wins at least 6(sometimes 5) counters and goes to a meaningless bowl game. All FBS can count any 1 scholarship FCS win as a counter, regardless of strength.
FCS playoff committee uses a semi-opaque SOS criteria to seed the playoffs. D2 wins do not count as high as FCS wins.

[FUBeAR]

In practice, an FBS team either wins a P5 conference and goes to a meaningful bowl game, or wins at least 6(sometimes 5) counters and goes to a meaningless bowl game. All FBS can count any 1 scholarship FCS win as a counter, regardless of strength.
FCS playoff committee uses a semi-opaque SOS criteria to seed the playoffs. D2 wins do not count as high as FCS wins.
Yes - a dominating win over the scholarship D2 or the scholarship NAIA National Champion is viewed by the Playoff Selection Committee as not even existing. It didn’t happen; the game was never played, essentially, in their eyes. On the other hand, a 1 point, last second win over the worst Team in the non-scholarship PFL counts just about as much, in the Playoff Committees’ eyes, as a win over any other FCS Team.

In other words, if your Team beats Ferris State 63-0 and loses 4 other close games to quality FCS Teams to finish 7-4, that’s only 6-4 in the Committee’s judgement. Meanwhile, if my Team finishes 7-4, with 4 bad losses to OK to bad Teams, BUT with a 1 point, last second win over 2-9 Presbyterian (who Ferris State would beat by 4 scores), my Team has an excellent shot at receiving an At-Large Playoff bid with my 7-4 record and your Team, with its (Committee-adjusted) 6-4 record, is almost certainly eliminated from consideration because your Administrators scheduled “poorly” … in the eyes of the Committee.

It’s stupid. FCS scheduling is challenging and it’s way more ‘fluid’ than FBS scheduling. Heck, Mercer was able to add a 12th game 1 year, 7 days ahead of playing the game, because of a hurricane cancellation by a 3rd Team. The Committee can just as readily assess Ferris or West Florida or Valdosta as they can they assess Stetson and Valpo. Then, though, they would have to justify their decisions based on what Teams do on the field rather than making their jobs easier by eliminating Teams because some suit couldn’t push a pen in the right direction.

[MUHAWKS]

MUHAWKS, here is info on what Maine is collecting from NDSU and FIU and what it is paying to have LIU visit Maine, a 400 mile bus ride for them.
Maine has had to schedule 2 FBS schools for at least 10 years for revenue purposes. I realize next year is only one FBS opponent but the caliber of the other FCS is superior to alot of FBS teams.

8/31 (Thu) - at Florida International
9/9 - at North Dakota State
10/14 - Long Island

fbschedules.com/maine-to-play-at-florida-international-host-long-island-in-2023/ (http://redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=7259828&u=https%3A//fbschedules.com/maine-to-play-at-florida-international-host-long-island-in-2023/)

wow! thanks for that- would NEVER have guessed pay 100k to LIU

[Libertine]

Except there is a hard penalty for FCS playing down a division. There is no real penalty for FBS playing down to FCS. And most do it for the win .. so not even a soft penalty since most do it.

I was referring to the logistics of FCS playing down but your point is taken.