FCS.. 24 team playoff

[ChickenMan]

Otto Fad.. from the 'Sports Netwok' reported tonight on WDEL radio that he expects that the FCS playoffs will very likely expand by 8 teams to a total of 24 schools. Fad said the initial expansion will be just 2 teams.. but that the further expanion of an additional 6 schools will be phased in over the next few years.

[aceinthehole]

Otto Fad.. from the 'Sports Netwok' reported tonight on WDEL radio that he expects that the FCS playoffs will very likely expand by 8 teams to a total of 24 schools. Fad said the initial expansion will be just 2 teams.. but that the further expanion of an additional 6 schools will be phased in over the next few years.

I think it is very likely that the 18 team (2 play-in games) playoff expansion proposal for 2008 was approved by the football committee last week and will be brought to the Division I Management Committee for a final vote in October.

The NCAA is planning to release a full report on the propsal by October 6.

[appfan2008]

I think this is a great thing for fcs football...

[HaveFunKc]

Here come some new Automatic Qualifier conferences... PFL, NEC, BS???

[bluehenbillk]

I'd rather see the NCAA eliminate the auto-bid process & have the best 16 teams play. To have to win 5 post-season games potentially to win a NC is a joke. On top of that, after watching some of the oddities as to how the committee has paired up opponents you just know there is going to be more of a controversy every year over who should get a 1st round bye instead of who was #24 vs #25.

Once you goto 24, 32 is inevitable, ugh.

[appfan2008]

personally i like 24 but 32 seems to be a little too much

[Boogs]

personally i like 24 but 32 seems to be a little too much

32 will turn the FCS into the NBA/NHL -- anyone with a winning record gets in.

With 24, there will be 8 byes into the second round. This means the #9 seed will host the #24 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC) and the #10 seed will be hosting the #23 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC).

Massacres.

[HensRock]

I think if we did away entirely with the Automatic qualifiers, then the conference races would lose a lot of their lustre.

I don't mind other conferences getting Automatic bids, as long as there is still enough room for deserving at-large teams to make the field. 24 would be the best number to accomplish that.

12 automatic bids:
Big Sky
Big South
Colonial
Gateway
Great West
MEAC
Northeast
Ohio Valley
Patriot
Pioneer
Southern
Southland

and 12 At-Large

[UAalum72]

Here come some new Automatic Qualifier conferences... PFL, NEC, BS???
Big South won't be eligible until 2010 (needs six teams together for two years)

[BisonBacker]

If this was to go through and the GWFC was to get an AQ I wonder how that would have affected the XDSU's thoughts on staying or leaving the GWFC? My guess is they would still have left but it's interesting to think about.

[89Hen]

there is going to be more of a controversy every year over who should get a 1st round bye instead of who was #24 vs #25.

Once you goto 24, 32 is inevitable, ugh.
Yup and yup. xnodx This will end NOTHING... next up...

"Why don't WE get any at large teams" - PFL fans

[aceinthehole]

I'd rather see the NCAA eliminate the auto-bid process & have the best 16 teams play. To have to win 5 post-season games potentially to win a NC is a joke. On top of that, after watching some of the oddities as to how the committee has paired up opponents you just know there is going to be more of a controversy every year over who should get a 1st round bye instead of who was #24 vs #25.

Once you goto 24, 32 is inevitable, ugh.

You are reading way too far into this.

18 teams for 2008 - only the bottom 4 seed would need to win 5 games!

Possibly 20-24 teams by 2011 - In this case, the top 8 seed (the most likely NC contenders) will still only have to win 4 games.

No one has even mentioned 32 teams - that is a scare tatic to support the status quo.

[89Hen]

No one has even mentioned 32 teams - that is a scare tatic to support the status quo.
Nope, just an opinion on what would most likely happen. How long did a 12 team field last?... byes suck plain and simple. xnodx

[Dane96]

Where is FCSFAN...telling us this is just unofficial news.

[lizrdgizrd]

I wonder if there were 24 teams with 7 DI wins last year. xconfusedx

[Dane96]

Yes, there were.

[bluehenbillk]

No one has even mentioned 32 teams - that is a scare tatic to support the status quo.

As i said in my earlier post, the big year-in year-out controversy 24 teams will present is the 8 seed vs the 9 seed, and who gets a week off vs who has to play. The NCAA committee has never shown the ability to do this well. Does this mean the end to regionalization, that has never been brought up??

Believe me, you'll heare the cries for 32 really quick. I'm not for the status quo, I think they should get rid of the autobids anyway, I get tired of watching the MEAC act as first round fodder every year.

[Green26]

Expanding the playoff field makes no sense to me, in terms of wear and tear on the players, quality of play, and logistics. Besides what has already been stated above by others, it extends the season and will mess up scheduling, at least in the initial years. It will also create a bye week for most of the playoff teams.

Even with only 2 additional teams, won't the playoffs have to be extended for a week? Has anyone seen when the 2 additional games would be played? I see negatives in having an idle weekend for 14 other teams. Some of those teams already schedule bye weeks the last week of the regular season.

In 2008, there will be 12 regular season games. Many/most of the 2008 games are already set. I suppose this just assures that there's a bye week for most playoff teams over Thanksgiving. To me, that's a prime football weekend. I can't imagine not having a game then.

If someone has some details or links to how this would work, please post them.

[Catsfan2]

I just am not crazy about the idea of 8 teams getting a bye when the field is 24. There needs to be some objective criteria besides committee deliberations about the 1 to 8 seeds are decided.

[BigApp]

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/livingtoday/060413/one.jpg

[henfan]

I don't play or coach the game, so I have no vested interest in how long the season goes. I'm a fan, so the longer the better as far as I'm concerned. Hey, why stop at one extra week? After the regular season, let's play a complete FCS round-robin, double elimination tournament. Last team that can field 22 players is declared champion.

Being a fan doesn't mean I can't level charges against the numbnutted NCAA committee members who agreed to lengthen the post-season by an extra week. So much for being concerned about the well-being of student athletes. Way to continue talking out both sides of your mouth. xwhistlex

[ChickenMan]

A 24 team playoff would pretty much insure that future FCS schedules would not include any 12 games seasons.

[NE MT GRIZZ]

A 24 team playoff would pretty much insure that future FCS schedules would not include any 12 games seasons.


More money for the NCAA, less money for the FCS institutions.xnonono2x xnonono2x

[slostang]

This is the FCS were there is limitted depth due to limitted scholarships. I think a bye going into the playoffs would benifit most teams and allow them to get healthy for a playoff run.

[blukeys]

As i said in my earlier post, the big year-in year-out controversy 24 teams will present is the 8 seed vs the 9 seed, and who gets a week off vs who has to play. The NCAA committee has never shown the ability to do this well. Does this mean the end to regionalization, that has never been brought up??

Believe me, you'll heare the cries for 32 really quick. I'm not for the status quo, I think they should get rid of the autobids anyway, I get tired of watching the MEAC act as first round fodder every year.

Don't forget the controversy about the last slots getting into playoff. The further one gets down in the 3 loss plus category the more you will get teams that can make a plausible case for getting in. Once you get 7 or 8 plausible candidates missing out every year the "solution" will be to expand to 32. Once the extra weekend is added there is no reason to not add extra games. The move to 32 will occur within 5 years of the expansion to 24.

[walliver]

In a 24 team bracket, would the NCAA seed Montana into the play-in game for the extra revenue.:D

Actually, I think the 8 first round bye should be reserved for conference champions, that would make conference championships mean something. Obviously some of the champions of weaker conferences would not get byes, but that's life in the food chain.

[Calif_Colonial]

24 Team Playoff would mean no more scheduling:

Fort Lewis College

Azusa Pacific

Lock Haven

Slippery Rock

West Virginia Tech etc . . . . . . . . . . .

[lizrdgizrd]

In a 24 team bracket, would the NCAA seed Montana into the play-in game for the extra revenue.:D

Actually, I think the 8 first round bye should be reserved for conference champions, that would make conference championships mean something. Obviously some of the champions of weaker conferences would not get byes, but that's life in the food chain.
Then you get the same whining from the same fans. Drop AQs altogether and seed only the top 4. xpeacex

[kardplayer]

I also like the idea of most (18-20 team scenario) playoff teams having Thanksgiving weekend off. In those 18-20 team scenarios, we're talking about opening weekend games for teams that have little chance of advancing to the championship game - the 15-18 or 13-20 seeds depending on the format - so we're not really talking about a 16th game in most cases.

Also -
- There's no students at school and fans/alumni have family committments keeping attendance low
- Its a miserable weekend for travelling (especially if coming home the day after the game)
- Give players a chance to heal

[WUTNDITWAA]

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/livingtoday/060413/one.jpg

My thoughts exactly.

[bobbythekidd]

I think a bye going into the playoffs would benifit most teams and allow them to get healthy for a playoff run.


Actually, I think the 8 first round bye should be reserved for conference champions, that would make conference championships mean something. Obviously some of the champions of weaker conferences would not get byes, but that's life in the food chain.
xthumbsupx xnodx xnodx

[youwouldno]

Don't forget the controversy about the last slots getting into playoff. The further one gets down in the 3 loss plus category the more you will get teams that can make a plausible case for getting in. Once you get 7 or 8 plausible candidates missing out every year the "solution" will be to expand to 32. Once the extra weekend is added there is no reason to not add extra games. The move to 32 will occur within 5 years of the expansion to 24.

32? Why not more? In 20 years, I predict all FCS teams make the playoffs.

[BigApp]

24 Team Playoff would mean no more scheduling:

Fort Lewis College

Azusa Pacific

Lock Haven

Slippery Rock

West Virginia Tech etc . . . . . . . . . . .

Am I reading this right, you think by making the playoffs easier to attain, team will schedule more tough games? xeyebrowx

[Calif_Colonial]

Am I reading this right, you think by making the playoffs easier to attain, team will schedule more tough games? xeyebrowx

No, I am saying no more NAIA , DIV III, DIV II. games played at our level. Have more teams schedule other FCS conferences so the selection committee can make informed selections on the 12 teams at large or whatever it will be in the future.

[Proud Griz Man]

I think this is a great thing for fcs football...


Disagree, because a FCS team can end up playing 15 games this year and more if the playoffs are expanded. Will the playoff expansion cause them to play through the end of December? All that to let some 4 or 5 loss teams compete in the playoffs?

[downbythebeach]

32 will turn the FCS into the NBA/NHL -- anyone with a winning record gets in.

With 24, there will be 8 byes into the second round. This means the #9 seed will host the #24 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC) and the #10 seed will be hosting the #23 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC).

Massacres.

Why the personal vendetta against the NEC and PFL?
I haven't seen you make a post on this board not slighting them......xrolleyesx

[Cocky]

32 will turn the FCS into the NBA/NHL -- anyone with a winning record gets in.

With 24, there will be 8 byes into the second round. This means the #9 seed will host the #24 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC) and the #10 seed will be hosting the #23 seed (NEC/PFL/MAAC).

Massacres.

Or like FBS football where everyone goes to a bowl.

[aust42]

Are there any links on this subject verifying the "powers that be" have discussed playoff expansion?

[USDFAN_55]

No, I am saying no more NAIA , DIV III, DIV II. games played at our level. Have more teams schedule other FCS conferences so the selection committee can make informed selections on the 12 teams at large or whatever it will be in the future.

If you believe that, then you should believe FBS teams shouldn't play any FCS teams either. You have to give the "little guy" a shot every now and then. Where would the David vs. Goliath hype go like we saw when App. beat Mich.?

[danefan]

Are there any links on this subject verifying the "powers that be" have discussed playoff expansion?

See the end of the following thread for the USA Today article just put out:
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29890

[FCSFAN]

Are there any links on this subject verifying the "powers that be" have discussed playoff expansion?

REPORT OF THE NATIONAL COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION DIVISION I CHAMPIONSHIPS/COMPETITION CABINET
June 26-27, 2007
http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_I/champ_cabinet/2007/June_2007/June_Cabinet_Report_Final.htm

The FCS members of the cabinet representing active FCS conferences voted to approve the eight conferences recommended for automatic qualification by the FCS Committee (see Item No. j (2) in the automatic qualification section below). (For 9, Against 1). In addition, the group agreed to charge the FCS Committee with developing a plan for providing access to all eligible conferences by the 2008 championship. (For 7, Against 4) The group noted that any recommendation with a budget impact would have to be submitted to the cabinet for review at the cabinet’s September meeting. [Note: A motion to waive cabinet policy and direct the FCS Committee to award nine-automatic qualification bids in 2007 was defeated. Currently, the FCS Committee may award eight automatic berths which represent 50 percent of the bracket for the FCS Football Championship (For 2, Against 41)].

* * *

This is what the FCS Committee came up with that was approved on 9/19/2007 (for another AQ and at-large in 2008):

REPORT OF THE DIVISION I FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP COMMITTEE
9/7/2007
http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_I/champ_cabinet/2007/September_2007/Supp_25_FCS.htm

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_I/champ_cabinet/2007/September_2007/Supp_25_FCS_Attachment.pdf

[henfan]

"Student-Athlete impact: none"

How does extending the season an extra week not have some impact the players?

[lizrdgizrd]

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/gove...Attachment.pdf
From this link, you can find a sample 24-team bracket based on last year's teams. Note that this bracket includes 2 6-5 teams. This is why a 24-team playoff is unacceptable.

[DetroitFlyer]

I'm still missing something here. The PFL is an "eligible conference". The NEC is an "eligible conference". Neither has an automatic bid currently. So, how does adding one more AQ and one more at large bid address the following:

"In addition, the group agreed to charge the FCS Committee with developing a plan for providing access to all eligible conferences by the 2008 championship."

One would think that if one more AQ was awarded, it would go to the NEC has they have applied many times. This would take care of one "eligible" conference. It still looks to me like one "eligible" conference is still on the outside looking in.... Did I miss something along the way?

[UAalum72]

One would think that if one more AQ was awarded, it would go to the NEC has they have applied many times. This would take care of one "eligible" conference. It still looks to me like one "eligible" conference is still on the outside looking in.... Did I miss something along the way?
If the PFL hasn't applied, it's just like the Ivy League (well, in this regard) - they are also 'eligible', as is the SWAC.

[lizrdgizrd]

I'm still missing something here. The PFL is an "eligible conference". The NEC is an "eligible conference". Neither has an automatic bid currently. So, how does adding one more AQ and one more at large bid address the following:

"In addition, the group agreed to charge the FCS Committee with developing a plan for providing access to all eligible conferences by the 2008 championship."

One would think that if one more AQ was awarded, it would go to the NEC has they have applied many times. This would take care of one "eligible" conference. It still looks to me like one "eligible" conference is still on the outside looking in.... Did I miss something along the way?
The PFL isn't "eligible" since they haven't ever requested an AQ I guess. The 24 team bracket will allow you to get one once you ask for it. xpeacex

[danefan]

I'm still missing something here. The PFL is an "eligible conference". The NEC is an "eligible conference". Neither has an automatic bid currently. So, how does adding one more AQ and one more at large bid address the following:

"In addition, the group agreed to charge the FCS Committee with developing a plan for providing access to all eligible conferences by the 2008 championship."

One would think that if one more AQ was awarded, it would go to the NEC has they have applied many times. This would take care of one "eligible" conference. It still looks to me like one "eligible" conference is still on the outside looking in.... Did I miss something along the way?

I think the PFL/NEC play-in game would determine which conference actually gets the AQ for the year. That's what it sounds like and I'm fine with that, because I'm assuming that once the NEC goes to 45 rides, the champion should be able to defeat the PFL champ (non-scholly) on a regular (not always Flyer) basis. xsmiley_wix

[appfan2008]

the only question is will there be enough teams with enough wins? or will they begin allowing 6 d1 win teams...

is this a good idea or not?

[lizrdgizrd]

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/gove...Attachment.pdfFrom this link, you can find a sample 24-team bracket based on last year's teams. Note that this bracket includes 2 6-5 teams. This is why a 24-team playoff is unacceptable.


the only question is will there be enough teams with enough wins? or will they begin allowing 6 d1 win teams...

is this a good idea or not?
This is a horrible idea.

[FCSFAN]

Looks like this is what they went with:
Play-In Round of Competition.

a. Recommendation. Establish a play-in round of competition featuring two games the week before the first round of the championship.

b. Rationale. An opening round of competition allows for the inclusion of conferences that meet the minimum automatic qualification eligibility criteria. Featuring two games in the opening round creates an environment that reduces the stigma of play-in competition and provides balance to the bracket. A play-in directly addresses the need for more inclusion in the championship for eligible conferences while also providing a framework for including other conferences that will become eligible in future years.

c. Estimated Budget Impact. It is anticipated that the costs associated with two additional flights and per diem for four teams as well as expenses for game officials during opening weekend will be approximately $251,200.

d. Student-Athlete Impact. An additional week of championship competition for student-athletes advancing from the opening round of competition to the first round of the championship.

e. Other Issues. To accommodate the added round of competition, the championship would have to be extended on the back end (conflicting with the Christmas holiday or moved to a near-New Year’s date); the football season would have to start a week earlier (budget impact for all FCS institutions) or; teams would have to give up their bye weeks during the season, creating the possibility of up to 16 straight weeks of competition for a team participating in every round of the championship. Additionally, the committee would have to develop policies to determine which teams participate in the play-in round. Doing so may require increasing the number of teams seeded in the bracket because to determine the play-in participants in a manner other than competitiveness challenges the integrity of the overall bracket. The committee also recognizes that there may be other issues inherent to this option that it has not yet had time to fully vet in this short timeframe.Now that the budget recommendation is approved we'll get further details from the FCS Committee probably once it is approved by the big boys. Cool that they are hopefully going to pay for it and move the championship game to probably after Christmas.

[Boogs]

I'm still missing something here. The PFL is an "eligible conference". The NEC is an "eligible conference". Neither has an automatic bid currently. So, how does adding one more AQ and one more at large bid address the following:

"In addition, the group agreed to charge the FCS Committee with developing a plan for providing access to all eligible conferences by the 2008 championship."

One would think that if one more AQ was awarded, it would go to the NEC has they have applied many times. This would take care of one "eligible" conference. It still looks to me like one "eligible" conference is still on the outside looking in.... Did I miss something along the way?

Reread from a prior post!:

"If the sh-tt-est teams form their own conference (NEC/PFL/MAAC) that said conference or conferences would have no value in getting an automatic bid.

If teams were randomly assigned to conferences, the NEC/PFL/MAAC teams would be in the basement virtually every year in each of their assigned conferences. And if that scenario played out each and every year, those teams would have dropped the sport because of chronic safety issues -- getting battered every week instead once or twice a year at the beginning of the year.

There would be a chronic vicious cycle of declining fan and player interest and the NEC/PFL/MAAC teams would quickly decline because of the hopelessness of always losing with just 30 scholarships/equivalencies. That decline would not occur and rebound in just the first 1/3 of the season like we have today but in the entire regular season without a rebound."


What this means in layman's terms is the NEC, PFL and MAAC do NOT belong in the FCS playoffs!

Get over it.

Be happy with Don and the Sports Network MM cup.

[FCSFAN]

The MAAC is most likely gone after this year.

[Boogs]

The MAAC is most likely gone after this year.

MAAC -- meaning as a current league or its individual schools playing independent or elsewhere in the future.

[lizrdgizrd]

MAAC -- meaning as a current league or its individual schools playing independent or elsewhere in the future.
I don't see where the league will get enough members to be sustainable. :(

[Boogs]

I don't see where the league will get enough members to be sustainable. :(

The point is the current 19 MM schools do not belong in the playoffs with their current schollie situation. That would be true regardless of their future conference affliation with today's schollies STILL in effect.

[youwouldno]

Well, if there are going to be 24 teams, its good if there's some cannon fodder included to make it easier for good teams to advance. AQ's for everyone serves that purpose.

[BigApp]

No, I am saying no more NAIA , DIV III, DIV II. games played at our level. Have more teams schedule other FCS conferences so the selection committee can make informed selections on the 12 teams at large or whatever it will be in the future.

OK, this is now 2 posts that appear to read as:

You believe FCS teams will suddenly STOP scheduling non-D1 cupcakes all because the playoffs are easier to attain.

That's the exact opposite of what will happen...

[Boogs]

OK, this is now 2 posts that appear to read as:

You believe FCS teams will suddenly STOP scheduling non-D1 cupcakes all because the playoffs are easier to attain.

That's the exact opposite of what will happen...

Remember the overriding rules for postseason play. Schools with cosmetic overall records that are less than .500 will not be allowed to participate.

There has been many a year when Michigan State had an overall losing record and was therefore not eligible to go bowling because of their tougher than heck Big Ten schedule.

Scheduling incentives to get a winning record do come into play.

The same would be true in FCS.

[lizrdgizrd]

The MAAC is most likely gone after this year.


MAAC -- meaning as a current league or its individual schools playing independent or elsewhere in the future.


I don't see where the league will get enough members to be sustainable. :(


The point is the current 19 MM schools do not belong in the playoffs with their current schollie situation. That would be true regardless of their future conference affliation with today's schollies STILL in effect.
I don't think the remaining MAAC members plan on dropping football or they'd have already done it. As many on this board have said, it is possible for a mid-major school to earn a playoff berth. Those who have scheduled correctly just haven't been able to win the games necessary yet.

[BigApp]

Remember the overriding rules for postseason play. Schools with cosmetic overall records that are less than .500 will not be allowed to participate.

Scheduling incentives to get a winning record do come into play.



Yes. The LaSalles, St Francis', Valpos, Savannah States and Davidsons of the world will suddenly begin to get more phone calls wanting games from the Montana's and Youngstown's

[R.A.]

As i said in my earlier post, the big year-in year-out controversy 24 teams will present is the 8 seed vs the 9 seed, and who gets a week off vs who has to play. The NCAA committee has never shown the ability to do this well. Does this mean the end to regionalization, that has never been brought up??

Believe me, you'll heare the cries for 32 really quick. I'm not for the status quo, I think they should get rid of the autobids anyway, I get tired of watching the MEAC act as first round fodder every year.

The MEAC followed the NCAA rules, waited extra long, and we earned our AQ the right way.

Our MEAC Champ deserves its place just as much as the next conference's champ.

[danefan]

The NEC followed the NCAA rules, waited extra long, and we earned our AQ the right way.

Our NEC Champ deserves its place just as much as the next conference's champ.

Any difference?xcoffeex

[FCSFAN]

Any difference?xcoffeexYes, the MEAC had teams that earned it on the field. xcoffeex

[aceinthehole]

Boogs hasn't added anything to this thread (or this board), but smack and putdowns. Why anyone responds to him is beyond me. You can't argue with someone like him, just better to ignore.

---
As for the others who worry about the expansion to 24 and 32 teams. Please take a breath and wait! The only proposal on the table for 2008 is the 18 teams and 2 PIGs. There is way too much assumption about future scenarios. This proposal isn't even final yet!

Many people (including myself) have vaild concerns about this expansion and everyone is eager to see the DETAILS of this proposal. We have no idea what the conference landsacpe will look like in 2012. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.

For the time being they have addressed the NEC request for an AQ and have added just 1 at-large that will help a team that goot "woofed." Yes, there will always be debate about the last team left out regardless of the tourney size, so just deal with it. Isn't that what boards like this are for - to discuss who got "left out" and who is not deserving?

:)

[putter]

If the playoffs are expanded the NCAA must step up with more money for the FCS. It is too much of a burden for some programs and the coffers of the NCAA will continue to grow.

[colorless raider]

personally i like 24 but 32 seems to be a little too much

I am with you. 32 is too many.

[R.A.]

Any difference?xcoffeex

Aside from the MEAC may be a bit more competitive than the NEC at this point in time, there is no difference.

I don't think I'm coming across in dispute with you danefan.

It is frustrating when someone calls your conference champ, fodder... like Hampton didn't push Payton winner Ricky Santos, David Ball and the New Hampshire squad to the limit last season... they only won by 3, it was 41-38.

Or as if our squads haven't won any playoff games before... it's not like MEAC Schools are new at this I-AA/ FCS Playoff thing.

FAMU did kinda sorta did win the first one...

[youwouldno]

This is a sad case where coaches want it and the NCAA wants it. Coaches want it to be easier to make the playoffs so they can improve their resume and the NCAA is driven by greed. The NCAA doesn't care about the FCS and whether the tournament is the best size for postseason competition.

[BDKJMU]

I'd rather see the NCAA eliminate the auto-bid process & have the best 16 teams play. To have to win 5 post-season games potentially to win a NC is a joke. On top of that, after watching some of the oddities as to how the committee has paired up opponents you just know there is going to be more of a controversy every year over who should get a 1st round bye instead of who was #24 vs #25.

Once you goto 24, 32 is inevitable, ugh.

Ditto. Get rid of the AQ and simply pick the best 16. Period.

I mean, if you expand it to 24, go to 12 teams after one round, 6 teams after 2, 3 after 3. Obviously that doesn't work. You'd have to have 8 games/16 teams in the 1st round, with 8 seeded having byes, then have 16 in the 2nd round, etc, 5 rounds total. Of course I'd like it to stay at 16. But I'd rather see 32 than 24. I mean if its going to be ridiculously watered down at 24, why not make it 32 and have an even 5 rounds, no byes.

[BDKJMU]

I think if we did away entirely with the Automatic qualifiers, then the conference races would lose a lot of their lustre.

I don't mind other conferences getting Automatic bids, as long as there is still enough room for deserving at-large teams to make the field. 24 would be the best number to accomplish that.

12 automatic bids:
Big Sky
Big South
Colonial
Gateway
Great West
MEAC
Northeast
Ohio Valley
Patriot
Pioneer
Southern
Southland

and 12 At-Large

Right now the Big South and Great West have only 5 teams. The minimum I believe is 7. Or would you have that watered down to so a conference would only have to have 5 teams to get an AQ?

I think the minimum for a conference receiving an AQ should be 8 teams. I mean the CAA has 12, the MEAC and OVC have 10, the Big Sky has 9, and the SoCon and Southland have 8. Right now the Patriot and gateway have 7, but I'm sure the Patriot could come up with one more, and isn't the Gateway adding the Dakota teams? Pioneer has 8 and the NEC has 7.

[walliver]

From this link, you can find a sample 24-team bracket based on last year's teams. Note that this bracket includes 2 6-5 teams. This is why a 24-team playoff is unacceptable.

But Wofford got woofed again on that schedulexnodx

It's a conspiracy.xsmiley_wix

[TheValleyRaider]

Right now the Big South and Great West have only 5 teams. The minimum I believe is 7. Or would you have that watered down to so a conference would only have to have 5 teams to get an AQ?

The minimum is 6, which is why the 5 team Great West and currently 5 team Big South can't apply for auto-bids. The Big South is adding Presbyterian and Stony Brook in the next year or so, putting them over the limit.

The real question is the Great West. As it stands now, they'll remain at 5, using UND and USD to replace the departing NDSU and SDSU. Given the moratorium on D-IIs moving up to D-I, I'm not sure where the Great West would pick up their 6th and become eligible, unless San Diego suddenly decides to add scholarships and join up, but I have to admit that would surprise me greatly at this point.

And someone pointed out earlier, regarding the mock bracket for last year's tournament containing two 6-5 teams, that's a terrible mockup. There were at least a handful of teams that easily met the 7 D-I wins requirement without filling that last spot with 6-5 Maine. 6-5 Lafayette was in as an autobid.

[BDKJMU]

The minimum is 6, which is why the 5 team Great West and currently 5 team Big South can't apply for auto-bids. The Big South is adding Presbyterian and Stony Brook in the next year or so, putting them over the limit.

The real question is the Great West. As it stands now, they'll remain at 5, using UND and USD to replace the departing NDSU and SDSU. Given the moratorium on D-IIs moving up to D-I, I'm not sure where the Great West would pick up their 6th and become eligible, unless San Diego suddenly decides to add scholarships and join up, but I have to admit that would surprise me greatly at this point.

And someone pointed out earlier, regarding the mock bracket for last year's tournament containing two 6-5 teams, that's a terrible mockup. There were at least a handful of teams that easily met the 7 D-I wins requirement without filling that last spot with 6-5 Maine. 6-5 Lafayette was in as an autobid.

I still think the minimum should be 8. With 6 teams you'd have a much higher chance of an undeserving 7-4 or 6-5 team getting in (like Lafayette did last yr at 6-5 in the 7 team Patriot). 8 teams makes it that much more unlikely you'd have a team win their conference at 6-5 or 7-4.

[GrizDen]

I'd rather see the NCAA eliminate the auto-bid process & have the best 16 teams play. To have to win 5 post-season games potentially to win a NC is a joke. On top of that, after watching some of the oddities as to how the committee has paired up opponents you just know there is going to be more of a controversy every year over who should get a 1st round bye instead of who was #24 vs #25.

Once you goto 24, 32 is inevitable, ugh.


I agree on sticking with 16. The potential of having two more teams added in 2008 so that the bottom 4 teams have to got the "play-in" route is lame. If you're team is on the bubble and can't make the top 16, as a fan I don't care about teams 17 and 18 earning a right to get in the play.

Getting to 24 or more just devalues the playoffs. There's always heated discussions after the playoff brackets are announced as to which team or conference got screwed or favorable treatment. But in most years, the committee seems to select 6 of the 8 or 7 of the 8 at-large bids at a rate that the majority of fans can agree on.

Note to the committee...get rid of the auto-bids, a team shouldn't get into the playoffs if they're not one of the top 16 eligbile teams.

[aceinthehole]

I agree on sticking with 16. The potential of having two more teams added in 2008 so that the bottom 4 teams have to got the "play-in" route is lame. If you're team is on the bubble and can't make the top 16, as a fan I don't care about teams 17 and 18 earning a right to get in the play.

Getting to 24 or more just devalues the playoffs. There's always heated discussions after the playoff brackets are announced as to which team or conference got screwed or favorable treatment. But in most years, the committee seems to select 6 of the 8 or 7 of the 8 at-large bids at a rate that the majority of fans can agree on.

Note to the committee...get rid of the auto-bids, a team shouldn't get into the playoffs if they're not one of the top 16 eligbile teams.

Yeah, as you and others have pointed its really about what fans think is the approprite size of the playoffs. xrolleyesx

Limiting participation and excluding the NEC conference champs is a great idea, becasue a PIG is "lame." Those kids don't deserve the chance at a post season, right? xcoffeex

Man, some of you guys think the playoffs is just about the fans. This is college football - its about the participants, ya know student-athletes! I have yet to hear a quote from a FCS coach or player that supports limiting participation in the playoffs! No one that participates has said this will "cheapen" the playoffs, the only ones lobbying for the status quo are fans on this site.

[TheValleyRaider]

I still think the minimum should be 8. With 6 teams you'd have a much higher chance of an undeserving 7-4 or 6-5 team getting in (like Lafayette did last yr at 6-5 in the 7 team Patriot). 8 teams makes it that much more unlikely you'd have a team win their conference at 6-5 or 7-4.

How does that work?

[danefan]

Aside from the MEAC may be a bit more competitive than the NEC at this point in time, there is no difference.

I don't think I'm coming across in dispute with you danefan.

It is frustrating when someone calls your conference champ, fodder... like Hampton didn't push Payton winner Ricky Santos, David Ball and the New Hampshire squad to the limit last season... they only won by 3, it was 41-38.

Or as if our squads haven't won any playoff games before... it's not like MEAC Schools are new at this I-AA/ FCS Playoff thing.

FAMU did kinda sorta did win the first one...


I wasn't sure if you were saying the NEC hadn't earned an AQ or not. But I do agree with you. Obviously other do not though. Hey, if everybody agreed, we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

[Dane96]

You know...F THIS...i am so tired of people whining. Baseball has 27 percent of its teams in the playoffs. The NFL has over 30 percent. The NHL nearly 50%.

March Madness: 20%...and there are massive rumblings to allow more teams in. Baseball...over 20%. Volleyball...same thing. Lax...please...almost 30%. Hockey? Same.

Doesn't cheapen those sports.

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.

Fact is, the pct. are horrible, even if 24 teams entered the FCS playoffs. IN fact, the numbers are still well below or within the parameters of both NCAA and MAJOR LEAGUES in our country.

We have 121 ELIGIBLE teams for 24 spots. There are ZERO scholarship and $$$ spending requirements as of now. That being said, let's dump the SWAC and IVY. The NEC, BIG SOUTH, PFL, and GWFC are all included because they are eligible as an at-large. We now have 103 eligible teams.

Let's not forget we will have to add on some future teams: Bryant and Old Dominion are two (I am sure I am forgetting a couple that beat the moratorium).

That leaves us with 105 teams. If we have 24 teams, which won't occur for at least a few years, it leaves us 23% of our division getting in.
Not exactly off the pace of EVERY SPORT LEAGUE IN THE COUNTRY...NCAA OR PRO!

I don't hear people bitching and whining about all those playoffs being cheapened. Length of season? Give me a break, the extra week works in the lower levels. Missing classes? Puhlease. Anyone who uses that excuse clearly hasnt played ANY level of college sports. If it were about missing classes...sports would be banned because schedules are changed and classes missed at all levels.

This isn't old guard vs. newbies. This is people who are anti-change. Y'all are grasping for straws. This will occur...the people in the important positions agree...and fact is...nothing y'all can say will change it.

Get a better argument: MONEY WOULD BE ONE!

[FCSFAN]

I agree on sticking with 16. The potential of having two more teams added in 2008 so that the bottom 4 teams have to got the "play-in" route is lame. If you're team is on the bubble and can't make the top 16, as a fan I don't care about teams 17 and 18 earning a right to get in the play. Getting to 24 or more just devalues the playoffs.xnodx xthumbsupx xbowx

[Dane96]

Oh...very short-sighted GrizDen. Ralp...I mean FCSFAN...way to come up with a poignant thought on a subject you love. I posted an alternative argument...and instead...you thumbs up something. At least you could have tossed a glove in the ring.

Guys...the 18 number is simply so they can finally get to 24. It is a phase in. The play-in, or early rounds, are only being played so the numbers work. The final number will be 24. The cost...would be prohibitive at first, thus the phase in.

Stop being short-sighted and remember the final number will eventually be 24.

Come on FCSFAN...you are a TOP REPORTER. Figured you would do you legwork on this one. Very disappointing.

[GSUISBACK]

You know...F THIS...i am so tired of people whining. Baseball has 27 percent of its teams in the playoffs. The NFL has over 30 percent. The NHL nearly 50%.

March Madness: 20%...and there are massive rumblings to allow more teams in. Baseball...over 20%. Volleyball...same thing. Lax...please...almost 30%. Hockey? Same.

Doesn't cheapen those sports.

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.

Fact is, the pct. are horrible, even if 24 teams entered the FCS playoffs. IN fact, the numbers are still well below or within the parameters of both NCAA and MAJOR LEAGUES in our country.

We have 121 ELIGIBLE teams for 24 spots. There are ZERO scholarship and $$$ spending requirements as of now. That being said, let's dump the SWAC and IVY. The NEC, BIG SOUTH, PFL, and GWFC are all included because they are eligible as an at-large. We now have 103 eligible teams.

Let's not forget we will have to add on some future teams: Bryant and Old Dominion are two (I am sure I am forgetting a couple that beat the moratorium).

That leaves us with 105 teams. If we have 24 teams, which won't occur for at least a few years, it leaves us 23% of our division getting in.
Not exactly off the pace of EVERY SPORT LEAGUE IN THE COUNTRY...NCAA OR PRO!

I don't hear people bitching and whining about all those playoffs being cheapened. Length of season? Give me a break, the extra week works in the lower levels. Missing classes? Puhlease. Anyone who uses that excuse clearly hasnt played ANY level of college sports. If it were about missing classes...sports would be banned because schedules are changed and classes missed at all levels.

This isn't old guard vs. newbies. This is people who are anti-change. Y'all are grasping for straws. This will occur...the people in the important positions agree...and fact is...nothing y'all can say will change it.

Get a better argument: MONEY WOULD BE ONE!

xthumbsupx

[youwouldno]

You know...F THIS...i am so tired of people whining. Baseball has 27 percent of its teams in the playoffs. The NFL has over 30 percent. The NHL nearly 50%.

March Madness: 20%...and there are massive rumblings to allow more teams in. Baseball...over 20%. Volleyball...same thing. Lax...please...almost 30%. Hockey? Same.

Doesn't cheapen those sports.

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.

Fact is, the pct. are horrible, even if 24 teams entered the FCS playoffs. IN fact, the numbers are still well below or within the parameters of both NCAA and MAJOR LEAGUES in our country.

We have 121 ELIGIBLE teams for 24 spots. There are ZERO scholarship and $$$ spending requirements as of now. That being said, let's dump the SWAC and IVY. The NEC, BIG SOUTH, PFL, and GWFC are all included because they are eligible as an at-large. We now have 103 eligible teams.

Let's not forget we will have to add on some future teams: Bryant and Old Dominion are two (I am sure I am forgetting a couple that beat the moratorium).

That leaves us with 105 teams. If we have 24 teams, which won't occur for at least a few years, it leaves us 23% of our division getting in.
Not exactly off the pace of EVERY SPORT LEAGUE IN THE COUNTRY...NCAA OR PRO!

I don't hear people bitching and whining about all those playoffs being cheapened. Length of season? Give me a break, the extra week works in the lower levels. Missing classes? Puhlease. Anyone who uses that excuse clearly hasnt played ANY level of college sports. If it were about missing classes...sports would be banned because schedules are changed and classes missed at all levels.

This isn't old guard vs. newbies. This is people who are anti-change. Y'all are grasping for straws. This will occur...the people in the important positions agree...and fact is...nothing y'all can say will change it.

Get a better argument: MONEY WOULD BE ONE!

Well I think the NFL lets too many in. But specific to the FCS, the difference is that there is much less parity when compared to pro sports.

Basketball and baseball are different because you can play more than one game a week.

Bowl games are different because, once the teams accept bids, the outcome of one game has no impact on the outcome of another (except in the polls). Lessening the quality of the average playoff team reduces the competitiveness of the average game.

Expanding to 18 is OK, but 24 is too many without the Ivies and SWAC taking part.

[GreatAppSt]

24, that would make about as much sense as the tv show. Is the NCAA planning to fund all this extra travel???$$$???xrolleyesx 24 would also require somr really wierd azz bracketology. Oh wait it's the NCAA they will come up with a simple and understandable formula. I was worried for a moment.

[Dane96]

Well I think the NFL lets too many in. But specific to the FCS, the difference is that there is much less parity when compared to pro sports.

Basketball and baseball are different because you can play more than one game a week.

Bowl games are different because, once the teams accept bids, the outcome of one game has no impact on the outcome of another (except in the polls). Lessening the quality of the average playoff team reduces the competitiveness of the average game.

Expanding to 18 is OK, but 24 is too many without the Ivies and SWAC taking part.

I agree about Bowls. I even agree with your Pro argument. How (serious question) does the IVY and SWAC play into this. I posted that if you exclude them we are right with the other sports.

Kids who play in March Madness put a toll on their bodies and minds. As for baseball...you are playing 3 games in sometimes less than a 30 hour period during the Regionals.

Not sure how adding an extra week is going to hurt when you see it that way.

But thank you...at least you put thought into it...and I do see some points of your argument.

[Dane96]

24, that would make about as much sense as the tv show. Is the NCAA planning to fund all this extra travel???$$$???xrolleyesx 24 would also require somr really wierd azz bracketology. Oh wait it's the NCAA they will come up with a simple and understandable formula. I was worried for a moment.

Why weird bracketology. Using the GPI and other items, we pick 16 teams. How will the "process" change by adding 8 more teams, presumably 2 of which, the Big South and NEC will most likely be autos...and the PFL probably getting one as well.

So, 5 at-larges...or even 4 if the Great West comes on, will have to follow the same formula that has been used for years.

[BDKJMU]

How does that work?

Say you had a only 4 team conference. 8 OOC games. Conference winner could be 10-1 or 9-2, but good chance they'll just have 6 or 7 wins, possibly even 5. 8 team conference its highly unlikely the conference champ would have less than 8 wins. 12 team conference, its unlikely the conference champ would be be less than 9 wins. Too many teams for someone not to hit the 9 win barrier The more teams in a conference, the more likely there will be a team with a really good record. Winner of the 7 team Patriot was 6-5 last season (and lets not kid ourselves, that was a relatively weak OOC slate). Mathmatically possible, but practically zero channce a CAA winner would ever be 6-5 (or even 7-4). 12 teams. At least a couple every year will make it to between 8-3, 9-2, 10-1.

With 118 conference affiliated I-AA teams, there's no reason there should be 15 conferences (an avg of less than 8 per conference). I-A has 120 schools, and only 11 conferences. I would like to see a little consolidating.

[BDKJMU]

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.


FBS: No playoffs. Less than 2% (2 teams play in the BCS title game). When they go (and it will eventually happen) to a playoffs in I-A, it will most likely be a 4 team format, which will be closer to 3%. Even if its an 8 team format, thats less than 7%.

So right now for FBS its 2 teams of 120, FCS its 16 of 100+. xsmiley_wix

[bluehenbillk]

Why weird bracketology. Using the GPI and other items, we pick 16 teams. How will the "process" change by adding 8 more teams, presumably 2 of which, the Big South and NEC will most likely be autos...and the PFL probably getting one as well.




OK, now that's going off the deep end using that stupid 3-letter crap.

[bluehenbillk]

Better yet, if they're going to expand the system why don't we get some coroporate sponsorship on those games:

San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia...
Poulan Weedeater...
Champs Sports...
Emerald...
Meieneke Car Care...
Bell Helicopter Armed Forces...
Humanitarian...
etc...

We all know how well those games get treated & we're on the same path.

[lizrdgizrd]

Yeah, as you and others have pointed its really about what fans think is the approprite size of the playoffs. xrolleyesx

Limiting participation and excluding the NEC conference champs is a great idea, becasue a PIG is "lame." Those kids don't deserve the chance at a post season, right? xcoffeex

Man, some of you guys think the playoffs is just about the fans. This is college football - its about the participants, ya know student-athletes! I have yet to hear a quote from a FCS coach or player that supports limiting participation in the playoffs! No one that participates has said this will "cheapen" the playoffs, the only ones lobbying for the status quo are fans on this site.
Well, if it's all about the athletes then let's let them all have a "post season" game! We could call them "bowls"! We could get corporate sponsors for them! Or we could have a 128 team playoff! xrolleyesx

Of course the coaches want an easier road to the playoffs, they have to justify their salaries and playoff appearances are the criteria. xnonono2x

[HIU 93]

I like it as long as the schools benefit financially.

[walliver]

If you go to a 24 team bracket (with 13 at-large teams), do you keep the 7 D-I win mandate? If you do, then the committee could well find itself handing out at-large bids to teams in the weaker conferences; that is, until the bigger schools start scheduling Davidson et al to pad their records. 8 at-large teams should be enough. If you want to add the NEC, Big South, and PFL, expand the field to 19 with 3 play-in games Thanksgiving weekend.

[lizrdgizrd]

Why weird bracketology. Using the GPI and other items, we pick 16 teams. How will the "process" change by adding 8 more teams, presumably 2 of which, the Big South and NEC will most likely be autos...and the PFL probably getting one as well.

So, 5 at-larges...or even 4 if the Great West comes on, will have to follow the same formula that has been used for years.
Your problem is going to be deciding the 8 seeds who get a bye week. The NCAA has competing interests here. On one side, they want the best competition - so picking the 8 "best" teams to get the seeds makes better competition. On the other hand, they need to make $$$ from the teams that get in so they can continue having playoffs - so picking big $$$-drawing teams to have the extra week could mean more $$$. So do you pick an 8-3 Montana as a #9 rather than a #8 so that they can have an extra week's worth of Griz income? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #8 and hope that it somehow ends up that Montana plays again at home in the 3rd round? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #4 so they can rake in the Griz cash until the 4th round?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Your problem is going to be deciding the 8 seeds who get a bye week. The NCAA has competing interests here. On one side, they want the best competition - so picking the 8 "best" teams to get the seeds makes better competition. On the other hand, they need to make $$$ from the teams that get in so they can continue having playoffs - so picking big $$$-drawing teams to have the extra week could mean more $$$. So do you pick an 8-3 Montana as a #9 rather than a #8 so that they can have an extra week's worth of Griz income? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #8 and hope that it somehow ends up that Montana plays again at home in the 3rd round? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #4 so they can rake in the Griz cash until the 4th round?

Or, more importantly, "Do we give the #8 seed to GRAMBLING since they're playing in the Bayou Classic?"

[wapiti]

I think 24 would be border line too many.

I would favor seeing a 20 team field with the top four getting a bye thru the first round.

[Dane96]

FBS: No playoffs. Less than 2% (2 teams play in the BCS title game). When they go (and it will eventually happen) to a playoffs in I-A, it will most likely be a 4 team format, which will be closer to 3%. Even if its an 8 team format, thats less than 7%.

So right now for FBS its 2 teams of 120, FCS its 16 of 100+. xsmiley_wix

Thanks...I couldn't figure that out from my own analysis. Sarcasm. OF COURSE I KNOW THAT. It is why I wrote that we wont talk about the FBS for this purpose...reread.

[Dane96]

OK, now that's going off the deep end using that stupid 3-letter crap.

Bill...I agree. It was a dig at FCSFAN(RALPH). I hate the GPI...and that is whole other thread.

[Dane96]

Your problem is going to be deciding the 8 seeds who get a bye week. The NCAA has competing interests here. On one side, they want the best competition - so picking the 8 "best" teams to get the seeds makes better competition. On the other hand, they need to make $$$ from the teams that get in so they can continue having playoffs - so picking big $$$-drawing teams to have the extra week could mean more $$$. So do you pick an 8-3 Montana as a #9 rather than a #8 so that they can have an extra week's worth of Griz income? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #8 and hope that it somehow ends up that Montana plays again at home in the 3rd round? Or do they pick that 8-3 Montana as a #4 so they can rake in the Griz cash until the 4th round?

I agree...and it is absolutely the NO. 1 sticking point of the whole proposal. That being said, the NCAA "gets it right" (or they say), for hoops, hockey, volleyball, baseball, and lower levels of football (DII and DIII).

No reason to think it wont get it right this time. What it will do is A) open it open to future leagues (NEC, Big South, PFL, and Great West)...and give those who have been clearly Woofed an oppty to get in.

Sure, it wont be perfect...but it isnt as restricting as the current method and falls in line with the mid 20% amount of teams in playoffs in ALL OTHER NCAA SPORTS!

[813Jag]

Or, more importantly, "Do we give the #8 seed to GRAMBLING since they're playing in the Bayou Classic?"
They still would not be elgible. SCG is at least 2 weeks later.

[BDKJMU]

In the past have any I-AA teams than won the national title ranked below #8 in the final regular season GPI (the only poll worth a damn)? I know JMU was #8 in 04' in a couple of the human polls. I think Montana was about the same back in 95' when they won it. Honestly, I would rather see only 8 teams than 24. Just take the top 8 teams and seed them. 9-16 have an EXTREMELY slim chance to win it, and 17-24 basically would have no chance at all.

[BDKJMU]

If they go to a 5th round (which appears like a good possibility with 18 teams (24 or 32 will be the same thing)
-they won't start the season a week earlier in late Aug (08' slated to start Sat, Sept 6th, championship game Fri, Dec 19th). So its either:
- get rid of the regular season bye week, and give 14 of the 18 playoff teams a bye Sat, Nov 22 and keeping the NC game on Dec 19th (with the potential for one of the 4 playin teams the possibility of playing 16 straight weeks, although its highly unlikely one of the 4 teams would reach the NC game, but still, 2 would be guaranteed of playing 13 straight weeks. I don't see that scenario happening.
-So its likely they would keep the regular season bye weekend and giving 14 of the 18 playoff teams a bye week on Sat, Nov 29, Thanksgiving weekend, and have the NC game played on Fri, Dec 26.

Look at when the NC game was played:
02' Fri, Dec 19 (I think)
03' Fri, Dec 18 (I think)
04' Fri, Dec 17
05' Fri, Dec 16
06' Fri, Dec 15
07' Fri, Dec 14
08' Fri, Dec 19 (scheduled for right now-is a leap year, thats why its the 19th and not 20th)

If go to a 5th round, start the season the same week, and still have the regular season bye week for everyone this is how I would guess the NC game would work out (provided they keep playing it on Fri night):
08' Fri Dec 26
09' Fri Dec 25
10' Fri Dec 24
11' Fri, Dec 23
12' Fri, Dec 22
13' Fri, Dec 21
14' Fri, Dec 26 (leap year again)

Obviously you'd have fans traveling on X-mas Eve and X-mas a lot of years.

[TheValleyRaider]

In the past have any I-AA teams than won the national title ranked below #8 in the final regular season GPI (the only poll worth a damn)? I know JMU was #8 in 04' in a couple of the human polls. I think Montana was about the same back in 95' when they won it. Honestly, I would rather see only 8 teams than 24. Just take the top 8 teams and seed them. 9-16 have an EXTREMELY slim chance to win it, and 17-24 basically would have no chance at all.

So you're saying there's a chance...xsmiley_wix

[aceinthehole]

In the past have any I-AA teams than won the national title ranked below #8 in the final regular season GPI (the only poll worth a damn)? I know JMU was #8 in 04' in a couple of the human polls. I think Montana was about the same back in 95' when they won it. Honestly, I would rather see only 8 teams than 24. Just take the top 8 teams and seed them. 9-16 have an EXTREMELY slim chance to win it, and 17-24 basically would have no chance at all.

Again, this isn't about what YOU WANT TO SEE - its about access to all ELIGBLE conferences!

Do seeds 9-16 have a chance in the basketball tourney? Of course not! Its about access to all the conference champs - making its a true NCAA national tourney.

If you just want the top 8 teams, follow the FBS. Aren't they moving to a BCS +1 format soon?

[89Hen]

In the past have any I-AA teams than won the national title ranked below #8 in the final regular season GPI (the only poll worth a damn).
UMass in 1998 was the 11 seed and basically the third team out of the Yankee.
WKU in 2002 was #15 in the country and wasn't one of the 4 seeds

[Fresno St. Alum]

I like the move to 24. I can't see a PFL team getting out of the 1st round though

[Seahawks Fan]

I like the move to 24. I can't see a PFL team getting out of the 1st round though


I don't think it matters. The PFL and the NEC should be part of a 24 team playoff system.

[bluehenbillk]

In the past have any I-AA teams than won the national title ranked below #8 in the final regular season GPI (the only poll worth a damn)?


xnonox xnonox xnonox

A: It's not a poll.

B. It's not worth the paper you could print it on.

xnonox xnonox xnonox

[bluehenbillk]

Bill...I agree. It was a dig at FCSFAN(RALPH). I hate the GPI...and that is whole other thread.


Dane96 I knew you were a good guy. Maybe we'll meet up in Newark next September. xthumbsupx

[youwouldno]

I agree about Bowls. I even agree with your Pro argument. How (serious question) does the IVY and SWAC play into this. I posted that if you exclude them we are right with the other sports.

Kids who play in March Madness put a toll on their bodies and minds. As for baseball...you are playing 3 games in sometimes less than a 30 hour period during the Regionals.

Not sure how adding an extra week is going to hurt when you see it that way.

But thank you...at least you put thought into it...and I do see some points of your argument.

Well, if you have more conferences participating, it is logical to have more playoff slots. I think looking at raw percentages only gets you so far.

My two main concerns are these:

1) devaluation of regular season.

2) addition of non-competitive playoff games

So far as the first, this is an undeniable result of expansion if it goes too far-- say to 24. A number of conference games would no longer really have national implications, since 7-4 will be enough for consideration.

In my second objection, the issue is that PFL teams and probably NEC teams will rarely, if ever, advance beyond the first round. And certainly not the second round. So bringing them in hurts the playoffs in two ways: it means there are more non-competitive games, and it means some teams have a much easier road past the first round.

Imagine there was a 24 team playoff last season. Let's say Portland State was in. Under this system, they could be matched up with teams ranging from a very dangerous Wofford to a Monmouth team with little chance against them.

With 16, one or two teams might draw a somewhat easy first round opponent, but even that is not common. The quality of the field is strong throughout.

[lizrdgizrd]

I agree...and it is absolutely the NO. 1 sticking point of the whole proposal. That being said, the NCAA "gets it right" (or they say), for hoops, hockey, volleyball, baseball, and lower levels of football (DII and DIII).

No reason to think it wont get it right this time. What it will do is A) open it open to future leagues (NEC, Big South, PFL, and Great West)...and give those who have been clearly Woofed an oppty to get in.

Sure, it wont be perfect...but it isnt as restricting as the current method and falls in line with the mid 20% amount of teams in playoffs in ALL OTHER NCAA SPORTS!
I don't understand why we should want to settle for being like ALL OTHER NCAA SPORTS. We've got the hottest ticket in town. You've got to earn your way to our playoffs (usually), why water down the competition? xconfusedx

[Seahawks Fan]

I don't understand why we should want to settle for being like ALL OTHER NCAA SPORTS. We've got the hottest ticket in town. You've got to earn your way to our playoffs (usually), why water down the competition? xconfusedx


Ever hear of March Madness? xsmiley_wix

[lizrdgizrd]

Ever hear of March Madness? xsmiley_wix
And how many of those 13-16 seeds make it to the sweet 16? xeyebrowx

[danefan]

In my second objection, the issue is that PFL teams and probably NEC teams will rarely, if ever, advance beyond the first round. And certainly not the second round. So bringing them in hurts the playoffs in two ways: it means there are more non-competitive games, and it means some teams have a much easier road past the first round.



You cannot evalutate the NEC as you would from past years. The NEC champ that will compete in the 2008 playoffs will most likely be a team with 30 schollys. The team that competes in the 2009 and forward will most likely have 45 rides. Those teams will be much different then the NEC teams of 2 years ago and even from this year (w/ 0 and approx 20 schollys respectively).

[danefan]

And how many of those 13-16 seeds make it to the sweet 16? xeyebrowx

I would bet that March madness's best TV ratings come from the opening round games and the final four. Just a hunch though.

[Seahawks Fan]

And how many of those 13-16 seeds make it to the sweet 16? xeyebrowx


That's not the point. The format works. The occasional upset makes for all the excitement. Let us in!

[lizrdgizrd]

I would bet that March madness's best TV ratings come from the opening round games and the final four. Just a hunch though.


That's not the point. The format works. The occasional upset makes for all the excitement. Let us in!

And they play 2 games in a weekend that only last 2 hours each. How many people are going to give a crap if USD beats Lafayette in the first round? We're not basketball and we can't sell ourselves like basketball. xpeacex

[danefan]

How many people are going to give a crap if USD beats Lafayette in the first round?

The same amount of people that care if Lafayette beats UMASS in the first round.

But with expansion you have at least two more fan contingents involved in the playoffs that would have been pulling out their basketball season tickets after Thanksgiving.

[lizrdgizrd]

The same amount of people that care if Lafayette beats UMASS in the first round.

But with expansion you have at least two more fan contingents involved in the playoffs that would have been pulling out their basketball season tickets after Thanksgiving.
When a 17-24 team makes it past the 2nd round I'll call it a warranted expansion. Until then it's just more undeserving teams making a watered-down playoff. xpeacex

[youwouldno]

You cannot evalutate the NEC as you would from past years. The NEC champ that will compete in the 2008 playoffs will most likely be a team with 30 schollys. The team that competes in the 2009 and forward will most likely have 45 rides. Those teams will be much different then the NEC teams of 2 years ago and even from this year (w/ 0 and approx 20 schollys respectively).

The OVC gives out plenty of scholarships, what good has it done them?

[BDKJMU]

xnonox xnonox xnonox

A: It's not a poll.

B. It's not worth the paper you could print it on.

xnonox xnonox xnonox

Ok, I stand corrected- its not a poll but rather a ranking system I guess you could call it. Its a compilation of the computer and human polls. Its paper is certainly worth more than the paper the worthless human polls (by themselves) are written on.

[UMass922]

You know...F THIS...i am so tired of people whining. Baseball has 27 percent of its teams in the playoffs. The NFL has over 30 percent. The NHL nearly 50%.

March Madness: 20%...and there are massive rumblings to allow more teams in. Baseball...over 20%. Volleyball...same thing. Lax...please...almost 30%. Hockey? Same.

Doesn't cheapen those sports.

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.

Fact is, the pct. are horrible, even if 24 teams entered the FCS playoffs. IN fact, the numbers are still well below or within the parameters of both NCAA and MAJOR LEAGUES in our country.

We have 121 ELIGIBLE teams for 24 spots. There are ZERO scholarship and $$$ spending requirements as of now. That being said, let's dump the SWAC and IVY. The NEC, BIG SOUTH, PFL, and GWFC are all included because they are eligible as an at-large. We now have 103 eligible teams.

Let's not forget we will have to add on some future teams: Bryant and Old Dominion are two (I am sure I am forgetting a couple that beat the moratorium).

That leaves us with 105 teams. If we have 24 teams, which won't occur for at least a few years, it leaves us 23% of our division getting in.
Not exactly off the pace of EVERY SPORT LEAGUE IN THE COUNTRY...NCAA OR PRO!

I don't hear people bitching and whining about all those playoffs being cheapened. Length of season? Give me a break, the extra week works in the lower levels. Missing classes? Puhlease. Anyone who uses that excuse clearly hasnt played ANY level of college sports. If it were about missing classes...sports would be banned because schedules are changed and classes missed at all levels.

This isn't old guard vs. newbies. This is people who are anti-change. Y'all are grasping for straws. This will occur...the people in the important positions agree...and fact is...nothing y'all can say will change it.

Get a better argument: MONEY WOULD BE ONE!

I'm with you, Dane. Well said.

[danefan]

The OVC gives out plenty of scholarships, what good has it done them?

Scholarships are only but one factor that determine quality of play. Additional factors include location, institutional support beyond scholarships, coaching, recruiting, etc..... I'm not saying scholarships are the end all be all, I'm just saying that the top teams in the NEC will be much better with schollys then without.

And I haven't heard anybody rushing to pull the OVC's AQ in this discussion.xcoffeex

What the argument comes down to is this: you are either for expansion because you believe increasing the playoff participation #'s will make FCS football stronger, or you are against it because you think it will water down and cheapen FCS football.

[USDFAN_55]

We've got the hottest ticket in town.

xlolx xrotatehx xlolx xrotatehx xlolx xrotatehx
Tell that to all the sponsors and media that support the FCS play-offs. Oh wait, they're all too busy with the FBSxeekx Hottest tickt in town?!?! Pass me whatver you are smokin'xcoolx

[lizrdgizrd]

xlolx xrotatehx xlolx xrotatehx xlolx xrotatehx
Tell that to all the sponsors and media that support the FCS play-offs. Oh wait, they're all too busy with the FBSxeekx Hottest tickt in town?!?! Pass me whatver you are smokin'xcoolx
Show me an FBS team playing on Dec14th. xeyebrowx

Or a bigger happening in Chatanooga on Dec 14th. xnodx


:p

[USDFAN_55]

Show me an FBS team playing on Dec14th. xeyebrowx

Or a bigger happening in Chatanooga on Dec 14th. xnodx


:p

Well then maybe NFL or NBA. The fact is it is far from the hottest ticket in town. If I weren't an FCS fan I wouldn't even know about the game let alone care. We all talk in here like FCS is a big deal, but let's be honest... FCS is a big deal to us.

[lizrdgizrd]

Well then maybe NFL or NBA. The fact is it is far from the hottest ticket in town. If I weren't an FCS fan I wouldn't even know about the game let alone care. We all talk in here like FCS is a big deal, but let's be honest... FCS is a big deal to us.
xnodx
And Big 10 fans. xsmiley_wix

[douglasdmb]

FCS is a big deal to us.

Pretty much. The first time that most sports fans had ever heard about Appalachian State was when they beat Michigan, not when they won two NCs. Sad, I know, but true.

[GannonFan]

You know...F THIS...i am so tired of people whining. Baseball has 27 percent of its teams in the playoffs. The NFL has over 30 percent. The NHL nearly 50%.

March Madness: 20%...and there are massive rumblings to allow more teams in. Baseball...over 20%. Volleyball...same thing. Lax...please...almost 30%. Hockey? Same.

Doesn't cheapen those sports.

FBS: Over 50% play in Bowl Games...but we don't speak to this...boo to the Bowls.

Fact is, the pct. are horrible, even if 24 teams entered the FCS playoffs. IN fact, the numbers are still well below or within the parameters of both NCAA and MAJOR LEAGUES in our country.

We have 121 ELIGIBLE teams for 24 spots. There are ZERO scholarship and $$$ spending requirements as of now. That being said, let's dump the SWAC and IVY. The NEC, BIG SOUTH, PFL, and GWFC are all included because they are eligible as an at-large. We now have 103 eligible teams.

Let's not forget we will have to add on some future teams: Bryant and Old Dominion are two (I am sure I am forgetting a couple that beat the moratorium).

That leaves us with 105 teams. If we have 24 teams, which won't occur for at least a few years, it leaves us 23% of our division getting in.
Not exactly off the pace of EVERY SPORT LEAGUE IN THE COUNTRY...NCAA OR PRO!

I don't hear people bitching and whining about all those playoffs being cheapened. Length of season? Give me a break, the extra week works in the lower levels. Missing classes? Puhlease. Anyone who uses that excuse clearly hasnt played ANY level of college sports. If it were about missing classes...sports would be banned because schedules are changed and classes missed at all levels.

This isn't old guard vs. newbies. This is people who are anti-change. Y'all are grasping for straws. This will occur...the people in the important positions agree...and fact is...nothing y'all can say will change it.

Get a better argument: MONEY WOULD BE ONE!

To echo some other posts, most people think that too many teams get into the playoffs in virtually every league you talk about - baseball purists decry the wild card, the NHL and the NBA are habitually laughed at for their worthless regular seasons, the NFL frequently frets 8-8 teams getting in, and most people laugh at the FBS and ask if they give orange wedges to all the players after the bowls along with their participation trophies.

On the FCS playoffs, though, the number itself is a bit misleading - 18, 20, 24. Eh, who knows. But when you start seeing 6-5 teams get into the playoffs, or loads of 7-4 teams, that's when you need to step back and ask if that's what you want. The ironic thing is that an expanded playoffs, while looking to be a boon to the PFL and those types of leagues (non-auto bids right now and underrepresented in the playoffs) the real winners from an expanded playoffs will be the power conferences. Heck, the CAA could have 6 teams in the playoffs every year in that scenario - the Gateway could have 4-5. Half of those conferences, if not more, could make the playoffs. Just because many other sports, college and pro, have diluted their playoffs (and again, there are plenty of detractors that say they have) doesn't mean we have to.

But I won't worry too much about it - UD is in a power conference and a 6-5 season could get us in every year. More football for me! xpeacex

[youwouldno]

Scholarships are only but one factor that determine quality of play. Additional factors include location, institutional support beyond scholarships, coaching, recruiting, etc..... I'm not saying scholarships are the end all be all, I'm just saying that the top teams in the NEC will be much better with schollys then without.

And I haven't heard anybody rushing to pull the OVC's AQ in this discussion.xcoffeex

What the argument comes down to is this: you are either for expansion because you believe increasing the playoff participation #'s will make FCS football stronger, or you are against it because you think it will water down and cheapen FCS football.

I think your description of the disagreement is concise and accurate.

And I would support pulling the OVC's AQ if there was a non-AQ conference with a better argument.

[BigApp]

24, that would make about as much sense as the tv show.

xnonox dems fightin' words...House boy xwhistlex


xsmiley_wix

[BigApp]

That's not the point.

you're correct. The more accurate analogy is the 64/65 play-in "Opening Round" game played each year in Dayton (which fits nicely in this discussion)