Which move-upper to the G5 do you miss the most being in the FCS?

[bonarae]

It got me thinking that with JMU moving to the SBC this coming season, we are losing another dominant FCS playoff team to the G5 FBS.

So, among the move-uppers to the FBS, even in the past who haven't moved down at all, what schools do you miss the most?

I'll start with mine:
Appalachian State
Marshall
Nevada Reno

Georgia Southern is still struggling even in the money game (FBS-FCS) department, so I didn't include them.

[FUBeAR]

None

[OhioHen]

None

[/thread].

[Cocky]

We are one of the soon to be mover ups and I expect us like the others to not be missed.

FCS is so dominated by NDSU it would not matter if any other school was still FCS, NDSU would just kick their ass too.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Old Dominion...just kidding

[ElCid]

None.

[Professor Chaos]

All of them. I wish we could have a playoff with all the G5 teams who will never have a shot to get into the CFP.

[POD Knows]

I would have liked to have a home and home with App State. Nice destination. The games with JMU were always tough. Might miss that a little.

[lionsrking2]

None. Schools come and go and others emerge.

[nodak651]

All of them. I wish we could have a playoff with all the G5 teams who will never have a shot to get into the CFP.

This. The uneven geographic distribution of FBS conferences is really stupid, as is the bowl system. Pretty much any school that can't even generate 2 million in ticket sales for the entire athletic department should not be FBS. That's a pretty low bar. https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

75 Bowling Green $1,998,702
76 Southern Mississippi $1,947,563
77 Charlotte $1,864,863
78 Toledo $1,850,523
79 New Mexico State $1,804,231
80 FAU $1,740,684
81 North Texas $1,683,630
82 Western Michigan $1,665,803
83 Georgia Southern $1,655,667
84 UTEP $1,626,736
85 UAB $1,585,356
86 Louisiana, Lafayette $1,538,645
87 Ball State $1,493,985
88 Louisiana Tech $1,410,198
89 Massachusetts $1,355,171
90 UTSA $1,345,297
91 Miami (Ohio) $1,341,420
92 Middle Tennessee $1,334,117
93 Akron $1,297,149
94 Buffalo $1,266,221
95 Ohio $1,093,472
96 Arkansas State $1,091,912
97 FIU $1,091,680
98 Northern Illinois $996,307
99 San Jose State $975,649
100 Texas State $846,357
101 Coastal Carolina $774,834
102 Central Michigan $737,914
103 Louisiana, Monroe $682,966
104 Eastern Michigan $675,734
105 Georgia State $664,017
106 South Alabama $531,688
107 Kent State $342,851

[Gil Dobie]

Boise St is the only one that ever made any credible noise in FBS. GSU, CCU and JMU are the only one's NDSU ever played. I would say GSU if any, because of their tradition.

[Hammerhead]

For comparison, the lowest P5 school is Oregon State at about $7.8 million.



This. The uneven geographic distribution of FBS conferences is really stupid, as is the bowl system. Pretty much any school that can't even generate 2 million in ticket sales for the entire athletic department should not be FBS. That's a pretty low bar. https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

75 Bowling Green $1,998,702
76 Southern Mississippi $1,947,563
77 Charlotte $1,864,863
78 Toledo $1,850,523
79 New Mexico State $1,804,231
80 FAU $1,740,684
81 North Texas $1,683,630
82 Western Michigan $1,665,803
83 Georgia Southern $1,655,667
84 UTEP $1,626,736
85 UAB $1,585,356
86 Louisiana, Lafayette $1,538,645
87 Ball State $1,493,985
88 Louisiana Tech $1,410,198
89 Massachusetts $1,355,171
90 UTSA $1,345,297
91 Miami (Ohio) $1,341,420
92 Middle Tennessee $1,334,117
93 Akron $1,297,149
94 Buffalo $1,266,221
95 Ohio $1,093,472
96 Arkansas State $1,091,912
97 FIU $1,091,680
98 Northern Illinois $996,307
99 San Jose State $975,649
100 Texas State $846,357
101 Coastal Carolina $774,834
102 Central Michigan $737,914
103 Louisiana, Monroe $682,966
104 Eastern Michigan $675,734
105 Georgia State $664,017
106 South Alabama $531,688
107 Kent State $342,851

[ST_Lawson]

If you don't mind expanding it to "which FBS program do you wish moved to FCS", then I'd nominate Northern Illinois. They've never actually been I-AA/FCS though. They really belong in the MVFC, but they're not going to admit that. They averaged under 10k fans this last season, and haven't averaged 20k plus in nearly a decade. Their #1, #2, and #6 highest attended games in their stadium's history were against SIU, EIU, and WIU, respectively.

I would love an annual MVFC game against NIU.

[lionsrking2]

Boise St is the only one that ever made any credible noise in FBS. GSU, CCU and JMU are the only one's NDSU ever played. I would say GSU if any, because of their tradition.

We played at Boise State in our very first game as a I-AA member in 1980. They were ranked No. 1, coming off a blowout win over Utah the week before—it was our first game of the season. We beat them 17-13 in the rain as I recall. Boise went on to win the I-AA National Championship. We finished 8-2.

[mainejeff]

Idaho.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Boise St is the only one that ever made any credible noise in FBS. GSU, CCU and JMU are the only one's NDSU ever played. I would say GSU if any, because of their tradition.

Marshall was a big deal when they moved up! People attached themselves to Herd given Moss and their overall history. I still remember the first MAC Championship on ESPN in the snow! That was a big deal nationally! It also set the table for the MAC to gain credibility as a league throughout the 00's and early 10's. College Game Day went to BGSU iirc when Urban Meyer was there.

For me personally, it's App State, Marshall and UMass. UMass mainly because they were a known, respected 1-AA program in the Northeast. Plus, Lehigh had several meaningful games against the Minutemen over the years. Overall, good fan support, great band, cool location and national success. Now they're an embarrassment.....

[DFW HOYA]

What do these schools have in common? The ones in bold are I-AA/FCS callups.


This. The uneven geographic distribution of FBS conferences is really stupid, as is the bowl system. Pretty much any school that can't even generate 2 million in ticket sales for the entire athletic department should not be FBS. That's a pretty low bar. https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

75 Bowling Green $1,998,702
76 Southern Mississippi $1,947,563
77 Charlotte $1,864,863
78 Toledo $1,850,523
79 New Mexico State $1,804,231
80 FAU $1,740,684
81 North Texas $1,683,630
82 Western Michigan $1,665,803
83 Georgia Southern $1,655,667
84 UTEP $1,626,736
85 UAB $1,585,356
86 Louisiana, Lafayette $1,538,645
87 Ball State $1,493,985
88 Louisiana Tech $1,410,198
89 Massachusetts $1,355,171
90 UTSA $1,345,297
91 Miami (Ohio) $1,341,420
92 Middle Tennessee $1,334,117
93 Akron $1,297,149
94 Buffalo $1,266,221
95 Ohio $1,093,472
96 Arkansas State $1,091,912
97 FIU $1,091,680
98 Northern Illinois $996,307
99 San Jose State $975,649
100 Texas State $846,357
101 Coastal Carolina $774,834
102 Central Michigan $737,914
103 Louisiana, Monroe $682,966
104 Eastern Michigan $675,734
105 Georgia State $664,017
106 South Alabama $531,688
107 Kent State $342,851

[Gil Dobie]

Marshall was a big deal when they moved up! People attached themselves to Herd given Moss and their overall history. I still remember the first MAC Championship on ESPN in the snow! That was a big deal nationally! It also set the table for the MAC to gain credibility as a league throughout the 00's and early 10's. College Game Day went to BGSU iirc when Urban Meyer was there.

For me personally, it's App State, Marshall and UMass. UMass mainly because they were a known, respected 1-AA program in the Northeast. Plus, Lehigh had several meaningful games against the Minutemen over the years. Overall, good fan support, great band, cool location and national success. Now they're an embarrassment.....

Marshall was a big deal with Moss and the movie, I guess my reference was to how big of impact on FBS they had. Boise beating Oklahoma in a bowl. and finishing in the top 10 of the polls several times, has been a real impact.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Marshall was a big deal with Moss and the movie, I guess my reference was to how big of impact on FBS they had. Boise beating Oklahoma in a bowl. and finishing in the top 10 of the polls several times, has been a real impact.

I think Marshall's success and "marketability" helped pave the way for Boise State to build off of what the Herd did. Part of Boise State's success came from the bowl game and blue turf that gave recognition to the city and school as they transitioned to 1-A/FBS.

Another interesting school is UCF. Daunte Culpepper's recruiting story, playing at the Citrus Bowl and UCF's location gave the Knights some unique exposure during their move to FBS.

[Puddin Tane]

dunno if they “moved up” or just moved on, enjoyed playing Louisiana (usl) and la tech

I’ll miss playing sammie

[The Cats]

None


You beat me to it...

[wapiti]

Idaho.

You beat me to it.

but wait, Idaho came back. They have been fun to beat up on since they came back.

[ElCid]

I think Marshall's success and "marketability" helped pave the way for Boise State to build off of what the Herd did. Part of Boise State's success came from the bowl game and blue turf that gave recognition to the city and school as they transitioned to 1-A/FBS.

Another interesting school is UCF. Daunte Culpepper's recruiting story, playing at the Citrus Bowl and UCF's location gave the Knights some unique exposure during their move to FBS.

UCF just did a touch and go in FCS on their way to FBS, so I never really consider them "FCS." Just an interloper. Kind of like ODU, GA St, etc. Marshall, App, GASo, Boise, Mass, etc. were actual FCS/IAA.

Edit:. Looks like my memory is failing. UCF was FCS for a good ten years. I just remember their last 3-4 when they were pretty good.

[katss07]

dunno if they “moved up” or just moved on, enjoyed playing Louisiana (usl) and la tech

I’ll miss playing sammie
I hate it when people use the term "moving up". Yeah, these schools didn't "move up", they just decided they were too big and too great for the playoffs and the subdivision's teams that they see as below them so they glorified themselves by taxing students when in reality most of these schools are just as cow-town and small time as they were in the FCS/1-AA. The Sun Belt, CUSA and MAC are nothing more than FCS leagues with 18 extra scholarships and a bit more cash.

Group of Five football in its current format is a joke and simply a marketing ploy for schools. Which I guess is okay because at the end of the day these universities are businesses. Its still disappointing seeing your school emphasize winning though.

[lionsrking2]

dunno if they “moved up” or just moved on, enjoyed playing Louisiana (usl) and la tech

I’ll miss playing sammie

ULL has always been I-A or FBS. La Tech moved up to I-A in the late 80's.

[NY Crusader 2010]

For me, UMASS is the one I miss most being in FCS. The only FCS programs left in the state of Massachusetts are Holy Cross and Harvard.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UCF just did a touch and go in FCS on their way to FBS, so I never really consider them "FCS." Just an interloper. Kind of like ODU, GA St, etc. Marshall, App, GASo, Boise, Mass, etc. were actual FCS/IAA.

Edit:. Looks like my memory is failing. UCF was FCS for a good ten years. I just remember their last 3-4 when they were pretty good.

Correct, UCF didn't move up to FBS until 1995 I believe. Not sure when program launched but I know they beat William & Mary in the 1990 I-AA quarters. At the time UCF moved up, Daunte Culpepper was their starting QB and they actually started out as a football affiliate of the MAC.

South Florida, FAU and FIU were all I-AA very briefly. Only one of them that had a notable run at our level was FAU who reached the 2003 semis, losing to Colgate.

[DFW HOYA]

Central Florida was Div. III from 1979-1981, Div. II 1982-1989, and I-AA 1990-1995.
South Florida was in I-AA from 1997 to 2000.
FAU: I-AA 2001 through 2003
FIU: I-AA 2002 through 2004

[Iridebikes]

I hate it when people use the term "moving up". Yeah, these schools didn't "move up", they just decided they were too big and too great for the playoffs and the subdivision's teams that they see as below them so they glorified themselves by taxing students when in reality most of these schools are just as cow-town and small time as they were in the FCS/1-AA. The Sun Belt, CUSA and MAC are nothing more than FCS leagues with 18 extra scholarships and a bit more cash.

Group of Five football in its current format is a joke and simply a marketing ploy for schools. Which I guess is okay because at the end of the day these universities are businesses. Its still disappointing seeing your school emphasize winning though.


I'm pretty much of the same opinion as you. Another aspect involved is the ego's of administrators and donors.

[ElCid]

Central Florida was Div. III from 1979-1981, Div. II 1982-1989, and I-AA 1990-1995.
South Florida was in I-AA from 1997 to 2000.
FAU: I-AA 2001 through 2003
FIU: I-AA 2002 through 2004

Ok maybe my memory isn't failing me. I thought UCF's tenure was shorter. It was too late at night for me to think back on it. I knew the others were all short.

[Puddin Tane]

ULL has always been I-A or FBS. La Tech moved up to I-A in the late 80's.

we had good rivalries with em back in the day.

Im hoping we get some Louisiana schools back on the schedule . Frickin WACk.

[mmiller_34]

This. The uneven geographic distribution of FBS conferences is really stupid, as is the bowl system. Pretty much any school that can't even generate 2 million in ticket sales for the entire athletic department should not be FBS. That's a pretty low bar. https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

75 Bowling Green $1,998,702
76 Southern Mississippi $1,947,563
77 Charlotte $1,864,863
78 Toledo $1,850,523
79 New Mexico State $1,804,231
80 FAU $1,740,684
81 North Texas $1,683,630
82 Western Michigan $1,665,803
83 Georgia Southern $1,655,667
84 UTEP $1,626,736
85 UAB $1,585,356
86 Louisiana, Lafayette $1,538,645
87 Ball State $1,493,985
88 Louisiana Tech $1,410,198
89 Massachusetts $1,355,171
90 UTSA $1,345,297
91 Miami (Ohio) $1,341,420
92 Middle Tennessee $1,334,117
93 Akron $1,297,149
94 Buffalo $1,266,221
95 Ohio $1,093,472
96 Arkansas State $1,091,912
97 FIU $1,091,680
98 Northern Illinois $996,307
99 San Jose State $975,649
100 Texas State $846,357
101 Coastal Carolina $774,834
102 Central Michigan $737,914
103 Louisiana, Monroe $682,966
104 Eastern Michigan $675,734
105 Georgia State $664,017
106 South Alabama $531,688
107 Kent State $342,851

The team that I cheer for, NDSU, generates more than $4M in ticket sales . Just saying.

[nodak651]

Ok

[FormerPokeCenter]

ULL has always been I-A or FBS. La Tech moved up to I-A in the late 80's.


ULL was able to stay I-A when the NCAA decided to enforce the bifurcation of division 1 only through stadium size. In attendance and on-field product they should have moved down to I-AA with the rest of the conference.

[lionsrking2]

ULL was able to stay I-A when the NCAA decided to enforce the bifurcation of division 1 only through stadium size. In attendance and on-field product they should have moved down to I-AA with the rest of the conference.
I agree but they didn’t. There were years under Baldwin and Bustle, they wouldn’t have finished in the top half of the Southland—maybe last in some years. Bad product for a long time.

[walliver]

I miss App State. Back in the days B.C. (before Conklin), we had some great games against App. We beat the team that beat Michigan.

We had good games with GSU towards the end, and they brought great crowds, but the fans came across as Southern Redneck Stereotypes, and I really don't miss them.

[BisonFan02]

The team that I cheer for, NDSU, generates more than $4M in ticket sales . Just saying.

It's probably closer to $5M if I remember correctly...probably down a bit now though...another price increase will fix that. LOL

[Puddin Tane]

It's probably closer to $5M if I remember correctly...probably down a bit now though...another price increase will fix that. LOL

just curious. How much would 2 season tickets cost me? Home side, 20 yard line, halfway up?

[NDSU1980]

just curious. How much would 2 season tickets cost me? Home side, 20 yard line, halfway up? Including mandatory Teammakers fee

https://gobison.com/documents/2021/5/17/Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices.pdf

[Puddin Tane]

Including mandatory Teammakers fee

https://gobison.com/documents/2021/5/17/Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices.pdf

ouch

[UNHWildcat18]

I miss umASS being in the CAAFB...... I went to the colonial clash at Gillette as a student at the time. It was a good rivalry which always drew good numbers.

They should have never moved to FBS.

[NDSU1980]

ouch

Can we put you down for 2 on the 50? :)

[POD Knows]

ouch
Yea, $280 a seat to be on the 20/30 is pretty spendy and you are $500 a seat at the 50. I don’t know what a reserved ticket costs for a big time P5 seat but I doubt it is much more that this, I could be wrong.

[ST_Lawson]

Yea, $280 a seat to be on the 20/30 is pretty spendy and you are $500 a seat at the 50. I don’t know what a reserved ticket costs for a big time P5 seat but I doubt it is much more that this, I could be wrong.

I'm sure it varies depending on the quality of the P5 team, but I was curious, so I checked out both Illinois and Iowa.
Iowa (obviously a much better team right now) - requires a contribution of anywhere from $50-$600 for most seats, although there's stuff out at the fringes that don't. Then it's anywhere from $435 to $450 for the actual tickets themselves.
Illinois - they don't show the main sections online (you have to call the ticket office and it looks like if you're between the 30s on the lower level, it requires some donation), but you can get season tickets on either side around the 20s for $280-$360. Upper deck from around $155 to $190 depending on location.

So, it looks like NDSU is somewhere between Illinois and Iowa in terms of season ticket price. Then again, considering the quality of football being played, NDSU is generally somewhere between Iowa and Illinois most of the last decade or so anyway, so I suppose that makes sense.

[POD Knows]

I'm sure it varies depending on the quality of the P5 team, but I was curious, so I checked out both Illinois and Iowa.
Iowa (obviously a much better team right now) - requires a contribution of anywhere from $50-$600 for most seats, although there's stuff out at the fringes that don't. Then it's anywhere from $435 to $450 for the actual tickets themselves.
Illinois - they don't show the main sections online (you have to call the ticket office and it looks like if you're between the 30s on the lower level, it requires some donation), but you can get season tickets on either side around the 20s for $280-$360. Upper deck from around $155 to $190 depending on location.

So, it looks like NDSU is somewhere between Illinois and Iowa in terms of season ticket price. Then again, considering the quality of football being played, NDSU is generally somewhere between Iowa and Illinois most of the last decade or so anyway, so I suppose that makes sense.
I don’t understand your math. A ticket on the 20 yard line, for 6 games with fees, is over $1600 at Fargo. That is more than Iowa, given your numbers and a 50 yard line season ticket, with fees, is $3000 in Fargo.

[ST_Lawson]

I don’t understand your math. A ticket on the 20 yard line, for 6 games with fees, is over $1600 at Fargo. That is more than Iowa, given your numbers and a 50 yard line season ticket, with fees, is $3000 in Fargo.

HOLY F***....really?!?!

I was looking here: https://gobison.com/documents/2021/5/17/Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices.pdf
and thinking of the lower part of the green sections (21 or 32), which it's showing as $582 total per seat. Roughly the same location in Iowa's Kinnick stadium is $435 + $200 contribution for a total of $635.

The most expensive season tickets currently available at Iowa are about 6 rows back on the 45, visitor's side at $450+$600 donation ($1050). As near as I can tell, they don't have anything higher than that, so NDSU blows away Iowa's prices at the top end.

If we charged anything close to what NDSU does, I'm pretty sure the only people that would go to games would be the students (who get in free) and family members of the players who get "comp-ed" tickets". Our most expensive reserved seating tickets for the public are $80...for the entire season.

[POD Knows]

HOLY F***....really?!?!

I was looking here: https://gobison.com/documents/2021/5/17/Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices.pdf
and thinking of the lower part of the green sections (21 or 32), which it's showing as $582 total per seat. Roughly the same location in Iowa's Kinnick stadium is $435 + $200 contribution for a total of $635.

The most expensive season tickets currently available at Iowa are about 6 rows back on the 45, visitor's side at $450+$600 donation ($1050). As near as I can tell, they don't have anything higher than that, so NDSU blows away Iowa's prices at the top end.

If we charged anything close to what NDSU does, I'm pretty sure the only people that would go to games would be the students (who get in free) and family members of the players who get "comp-ed" tickets". Our most expensive reserved seating tickets for the public are $80...for the entire season.
I am just going by what was posted in the other link that was provided that had the color coding and the ticket and Teammaker fees. Maybe I am reading it wrong but I know that mid field tickets for Bison games are multiple hundreds of dollars per game.

[POD Knows]

HOLY F***....really?!?!

I was looking here: https://gobison.com/documents/2021/5/17/Football_Season_Ticket_Seating_Chart_Prices.pdf
and thinking of the lower part of the green sections (21 or 32), which it's showing as $582 total per seat. Roughly the same location in Iowa's Kinnick stadium is $435 + $200 contribution for a total of $635.

The most expensive season tickets currently available at Iowa are about 6 rows back on the 45, visitor's side at $450+$600 donation ($1050). As near as I can tell, they don't have anything higher than that, so NDSU blows away Iowa's prices at the top end.

If we charged anything close to what NDSU does, I'm pretty sure the only people that would go to games would be the students (who get in free) and family members of the players who get "comp-ed" tickets". Our most expensive reserved seating tickets for the public are $80...for the entire season.
Reserved end zone at Fargo are about $50 per seat.

[Bisonoline]

I am just going by what was posted in the other link that was provided that had the color coding and the ticket and Teammaker fees. Maybe I am reading it wrong but I know that mid field tickets for Bison games are multiple hundreds of dollars per game.

Our 2 seats are a total of 2264.00. On the 50 row y. Go blow that row and it gets more expensive.

[POD Knows]

Our 2 seats are a total of 2264.00. On the 50 row y. Go blow that row and it gets more expensive.
Yea. I quoted the lower seats, the real expensive ones. The link that was attached explained it pretty well. We pay about 60 a seat but we are in the corner on the Bison side of the field. I am too cheap to spring for seats between the 20’s.

[FormerPokeCenter]

I agree but they didn’t. There were years under Baldwin and Bustle, they wouldn’t have finished in the top half of the Southland—maybe last in some years. Bad product for a long time.


They were horrible until the guy with the smedium coaching shirts showed up and they finally figured out how to schedule protectively.....he got them from 6-5 to 8-3 and 9-2 by selective scheduling...

[lionsrking2]

They were horrible until the guy with the smedium coaching shirts showed up and they finally figured out how to schedule protectively.....he got them from 6-5 to 8-3 and 9-2 by selective scheduling...

Whatever works I guess.

[Puddin Tane]

They were horrible until the guy with the smedium coaching shirts showed up and they finally figured out how to schedule protectively.....he got them from 6-5 to 8-3 and 9-2 by selective scheduling...

Coach Hud! He thought rules were optional.

[Puddin Tane]

Can we put you down for 2 on the 50? :)

I’ll pass. My tix on the 25 yd line are 99.00/yr. And from what we put on the field lately, i deserve a refund.

[POD Knows]

I’ll pass. My tix on the 25 yd line are 99.00/yr. And from what we put on the field lately, i deserve a refund.You mean like 15 bucks a game for 6 games, seriously???

[Puddin Tane]

You mean like 15 bucks a game for 6 games, seriously???

yup.

[ST_Lawson]

You mean like 15 bucks a game for 6 games, seriously???

That's pretty close what mine averages out to. Here's what our single-game regular "gate" prices were for our home games last year (I usually get general admission):

https://i.imgur.com/yBJtEdQ.png

[POD Knows]

That's pretty close what mine averages out to. Here's what our single-game regular "gate" prices were for our home games last year (I usually get general admission):

https://i.imgur.com/yBJtEdQ.png
That is what a single tailgating spot costs at Fargo.

[KPSUL]

None
What he said!

[tigonian02]

It got me thinking that with JMU moving to the SBC this coming season, we are losing another dominant FCS playoff team to the G5 FBS.

So, among the move-uppers to the FBS, even in the past who haven't moved down at all, what schools do you miss the most?

I'll start with mine:
Appalachian State
Marshall
Nevada Reno

Georgia Southern is still struggling even in the money game (FBS-FCS) department, so I didn't include them.

How do you figure GS is struggling in the money game?

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Actually none. Hats off to each school taking a chance and moving up. Hopefully NDSU is in the FBS sooner rather than later.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Actually none. Hats off to each school taking a chance and moving up. Hopefully NDSU is in the FBS sooner rather than later.

Someone needs to grab the torch and run with my CUSA Mountain West Division idea. Such a group of schools competing with one another at the G5 level would be very similar to the Sun Belt group IMO.

For those unfamiliar, I'm referring to North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho moving up together to play in a CUSA division with UTEP and New Mexico State. Then CUSA could add a couple more to create another 7-team division in the Gulf region.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Someone needs to grab the torch and run with my CUSA Mountain West Division idea. Such a group of schools competing with one another at the G5 level would be very similar to the Sun Belt group IMO.

For those unfamiliar, I'm referring to North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho moving up together to play in a CUSA division with UTEP and New Mexico State. Then CUSA could add a couple more to create another 7-team division in the Gulf region.

Actually, that setup is pretty decent!

[Sitting Bull]

Someone needs to grab the torch and run with my CUSA Mountain West Division idea. Such a group of schools competing with one another at the G5 level would be very similar to the Sun Belt group IMO.

For those unfamiliar, I'm referring to North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho moving up together to play in a CUSA division with UTEP and New Mexico State. Then CUSA could add a couple more to create another 7-team division in the Gulf region.

To what end? Play basically the same schools and salivate which gets to play in an empty Potato Bowl against a mid level MAC team - meh.

Why not invite UTEP and NM State into the Big Sky and let them compete for a National Championship.

[katss07]

To what end? Play basically the same schools and salivate which gets to play in an empty Potato Bowl against a mid level MAC team - meh.

Why not invite UTEP and NM State into the Big Sky and let them compete for a National Championship.
Because the perception of dropping into the FCS is equivalent to leaving the majors for triple a. It is unfortunate, because really only about 25% of teams in the G5 belong there.

[NDSU1980]

Someone needs to grab the torch and run with my CUSA Mountain West Division idea. Such a group of schools competing with one another at the G5 level would be very similar to the Sun Belt group IMO.

For those unfamiliar, I'm referring to North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho moving up together to play in a CUSA division with UTEP and New Mexico State. Then CUSA could add a couple more to create another 7-team division in the Gulf region.
I'd sure go for it, but you have to convince NDSU Athletic Dept first. Good luck with that.

[Sitting Bull]

Because the perception of dropping into the FCS is equivalent to leaving the majors for triple a. It is unfortunate, because really only about 25% of teams in the G5 belong there.

Perception also includes that most people do not consider G5 as major league football either.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Because the perception of dropping into the FCS is equivalent to leaving the majors for triple a. It is unfortunate, because really only about 25% of teams in the G5 belong there.

The thing is there are so many I-AA move-ups in the G5 now, that maybe now you could say ALL of them belong there. If there was ever a "split", you're probably correct that maybe 25% of those schools at best would belong in the new world of "major college football". The other 75%+ would end up on our side of the fence again. But for now, it appears that most of the schools that have moved up are happy where they are. How many supporters of App State, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Boise State, Troy, Marshall, WKU and Coastal Carolina are clamoring for their programs to move back down?

We're pretty much heading to the point where FCS is turning into what DII used to be in the 1980's and 1990's. And the G5 is turning into what I-AA was during the 1980's and 1990's. It is what it is.

[Sitting Bull]

The problem I see with G5 - just my opinion - you just don’t have any blue chip universities in the group. They are schools that will always be secondary in their own states and they will never clear the fence or be invited to join the table with the top tier, those they covet to dance. So what is their end game?

Despite the move-ups from FCS, the FCS division has largely maintained their base of blue chip, national universities. The Ivy, PL, Southern, CAA, Big Sky. That matters whether you want to call it D2 or whatever. And these schools aren’t going anywhere. They have found a model that works for them. And even if the Ivy hasn’t joined into the playoff system (yet), their participation in the FCS division is nationally significant.

So being in that latter group, I’m not bothered by an attempt by App State or Sam Houston if they want to swim with schools like them in a pretend world of big time football. It’s kind of a no mans land though. You aren’t really competing for a national championship, you aren’t going to a major bowl game and you aren’t getting prime time media exposure.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Perception also includes that most people do not consider G5 as major league football either.

Perception aside, G5 teams play games on major networks (great for branding), obtain $1 million plus guarantees from P5 teams, and the bowl games draw great ratings.

FCS football offers none of those perks. Take New Mexico State for example. Would New Mexico State be more competitive in the FCS? Maybe. Idaho certainly hasn't gotten better. But New Mexico State wouldn't make the money it does playing at Alabama and Kentucky if the program dropped down. That money and presence is worth more than a 7-4 season and a longshot at the FCS title. Additionally, staying at the FBS level keeps their rivalries with New Mexico and UTEP alive.

FCS has become the proverbial purgatory of college football.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

The problem I see with G5 - just my opinion - you just don’t have any blue chip universities in the group. They are schools that will always be secondary in their own states and they will never clear the fence or be invited to join the table with the top tier, those they covet to dance. So what is their end game?

Despite the move-ups from FCS, the FCS division has largely maintained their base of blue chip, national universities. The Ivy, PL, Southern, CAA, Big Sky. That matters whether you want to call it D2 or whatever. And these schools aren’t going anywhere. They have found a model that works for them. And even if the Ivy hasn’t joined into the playoff system (yet), their participation in the FCS division is nationally significant.

So being in that latter group, I’m not bothered by an attempt by App State or Sam Houston if they want to swim with schools like them in a pretend world of big time football. It’s kind of a no mans land though. You aren’t really competing for a national championship, you aren’t going to a major bowl game and you aren’t getting prime time media exposure.

How many FCS schools realistically are competing for a national championship?

The G5 have an Access Bowl bid slot. It is a long shot but if a school makes it and pulls an upset, they are memorialized. Same deal with a March Madness run. It is unlikely but the benefits are worth the gamble.

Prime time exposure? Several G5 teams have received prime slots either on Saturday or during the week. In contrast, the FCS playoffs barely receive any coverage.

The reason those schools are making the transition is because G5 FBS football offers better benefits in the short and long run. The schools who could jump are either not interested (Ivy, some CAA teams, Pioneer teams), too distant from options (NDSU, MVFC schools), too poor (SWAC, NEC, etc), or sitting around trying to be Ivy-lite (Patriot).

A FCS championship is objectively better than some random bowl game trophy since titles are titles. But the higher guaranteed rates, the prestige, and the exposure of FBS football dwarfs that title. Sadly, more people knew App State for upsetting Michigan than they knew them for winning FCS (well, D-1AA titles).

The ultimate end game is to hang around as long as FBS football stays in the current format. If the P5 break away, well, they will be back with the other FCS teams regardless. Might as well make more hay when the sun is shining. And if the new playoff system provides a G5 slot, the situation improved.

[Sitting Bull]

Perception aside, G5 teams play games on major networks (great for branding), obtain $1 million plus guarantees from P5 teams, and the bowl games draw great ratings.

FCS football offers none of those perks. Take New Mexico State for example. Would New Mexico State be more competitive in the FCS? Maybe. Idaho certainly hasn't gotten better. But New Mexico State wouldn't make the money it does playing at Alabama and Kentucky if the program dropped down. That money and presence is worth more than a 7-4 season and a longshot at the FCS title. Additionally, staying at the FBS level keeps their rivalries with New Mexico and UTEP alive.

FCS has become the proverbial purgatory of college football.

You don’t have to be G5 to play at Alabama. In fact, I think they schedule an FCS game every year - so that is not an advantage of being G5.

And for every $1m media payday, you have 5 where you move your games to Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday night. And these G5 bowl games are not ratings busters. I actually think they do more harm than good, any money aside, when you have 5,000 people sitting in a 30,000 seat stadium and play it off as big time football.

I’m not knocking those that want to be part of that. I’m just glad not be in that no mans land.

[Sitting Bull]

How many FCS schools realistically are competing for a national championship?

The G5 have an Access Bowl bid slot. It is a long shot but if a school makes it and pulls an upset, they are memorialized. Same deal with a March Madness run. It is unlikely but the benefits are worth the gamble.

Prime time exposure? Several G5 teams have received prime slots either on Saturday or during the week. In contrast, the FCS playoffs barely receive any coverage.

The reason those schools are making the transition is because G5 FBS football offers better benefits in the short and long run. The schools who could jump are either not interested (Ivy, some CAA teams, Pioneer teams), too distant from options (NDSU, MVFC schools), too poor (SWAC, NEC, etc), or sitting around trying to be Ivy-lite (Patriot).

A FCS championship is objectively better than some random bowl game trophy since titles are titles. But the higher guaranteed rates, the prestige, and the exposure of FBS football dwarfs that title. Sadly, more people knew App State for upsetting Michigan than they knew them for winning FCS (well, D-1AA titles).

The ultimate end game is to hang around as long as FBS football stays in the current format. If the P5 break away, well, they will be back with the other FCS teams regardless. Might as well make more hay when the sun is shining. And if the new playoff system provides a G5 slot, the situation improved.

Just starting with your first question, I would say more than FBS. Colgate was in the championship game not long ago. More teams in FCS have a legit shot than anyone in G5 within FBS.

And mentioned prior, for every prime time slot a G5 might get (I can’t really recall one), you have 5 games where you either shift the game off campus or play on a Tuesday night. And the postgame bowls for G5 are an embarrassment.

FBS does dwarf FCS - but let’s not pretend G5 is part of that. They’re not.

[ElCid]

Let's face it, for G5, FCS, or lower divisions, the average people will watch games of "their school" or maybe those who have a family connection. They might watch a conference mate for an interesting matchup. I'm talking average run of the mill population. I could care less about ever watching NM St or Wyoming or Charlotte, etc. whether they are playing each other or even if they are playing a big time P5. I will watch Army and Navy games though. But not AF even though I was in the AF for over 23 years. LOL.

This differs from P5 where, at least for most of the big time programs, a lot more people will watch with little actual connection to the school. They just want to see the big game. I know that for myself, an avid watcher of FCS, it would hard for me to suffer through nearly all G5/G5 game, but I'll watch big Alabama or Clemson, etc games, although I have connection to the latter. But it's even hard for me to watch the lower P5s like Duke, or BC, or Indiana, or Arizona, etc. Not to mention I would be busy watching FCS games.

Claims of big time exposure and prime time slots for G5 just don't wash because they get minuscule ratings compared to good P5 match ups. And I'm pretty sure that FCS playoffs games, at least the semis and final get as good of ratings as the endless who cares G5 bowls. Of which I watched a total of...zero this year.

The only tangible beni for G5 compared to FCS is the money for bowls, if they get one, and even that is sometimes a break even situation; P5 payouts are about double for G5 than for FCS games; and for any broadcast deals, but I'm sure they reflect the anticipated audience. That might be worth a little to some programs. But it is peanuts compared to the same payouts to most P5.

[katss07]

Perception also includes that most people do not consider G5 as major league football either.
There is definitely a perception that G5 football is "major league", at least to an extent. G5 schools are on ESPN. G5 schools are in the video games. G5 schools host P5s. Obviously there is a major gap between the haves and have nots of the FBS, but as of now they remain under the same umbrella. Why would NMSU give up those marketing opportunities for their school to join the FCS where winning is anything but guaranteed.

[ElCid]

There is definitely a perception that G5 football is "major league", at least to an extent. G5 schools are on ESPN. G5 schools are in the video games. G5 schools host P5s. Obviously there is a major gap between the haves and have nots of the FBS, but as of now they remain under the same umbrella. Why would NMSU give up those marketing opportunities for their school to join the FCS where winning is anything but guaranteed.

I think it more accurate to say that there are those (like ESPN, game creators, etc., all for purpose of $) who try to create the perception that G5 is major league rather than it actually being so in reality.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Perception aside, G5 teams play games on major networks (great for branding), obtain $1 million plus guarantees from P5 teams, and the bowl games draw great ratings.

FCS football offers none of those perks. Take New Mexico State for example. Would New Mexico State be more competitive in the FCS? Maybe. Idaho certainly hasn't gotten better. But New Mexico State wouldn't make the money it does playing at Alabama and Kentucky if the program dropped down. That money and presence is worth more than a 7-4 season and a longshot at the FCS title. Additionally, staying at the FBS level keeps their rivalries with New Mexico and UTEP alive.

FCS has become the proverbial purgatory of college football.

I wouldn't call it purgatory. There are plenty of schools that are mainstays in the division and are happy with this level of competition. The vast majority of the schools that moved up to I-A/FBS did it because it made sense for them institutionally. And the schools that for the most part DON'T try to move up do so because either a) they're not invited because they don't fit the footprint of an existing FBS conference or b) it doesn't make sense for the institution itself. For every Coastal Carolina, Old Dominion or Georgia State that used FCS as an incubator to develop a G5 football program, there's a Furman, Citadel, William & Mary, Delaware, McNeese, Villanova, Montana, New Hampshire or Lehigh that form the core of this division. And of course the Dakota schools are an obviously major part of that fabric, even if NDSU and SDSU do end up leaving if/when the G5 landscape changes to make a move up make more sense for them. The remaining SoCon schools aren't going anywhere, nor is anyone who remains in the CAA post-JMU. The Patriot League is here to stay and the NEC and new WAC are up-and-coming. The Ivy League will be...the Ivy League. And of course, our level continues to be home to tradition-rich HBCU football.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

You don’t have to be G5 to play at Alabama. In fact, I think they schedule an FCS game every year - so that is not an advantage of being G5.

And for every $1m media payday, you have 5 where you move your games to Tuesday afternoon or Wednesday night. And these G5 bowl games are not ratings busters. I actually think they do more harm than good, any money aside, when you have 5,000 people sitting in a 30,000 seat stadium and play it off as big time football.

I’m not knocking those that want to be part of that. I’m just glad not be in that no mans land.

No, you don't. But the payout to a G5 school dwarfs that of a payout to a FCS team. It is not even close from a financial standpoint. Kent State is playing three P5 teams in money games. LIU played three FBS teams last year. Kent State's earnings will be $2 million more than LIU.

You are exaggerating the number of midweek games compared to the number of payouts. To be equal, MAC schools would be playing 10 midweek games. Even the MAC schools don't have 5 (usually 4 at most) and the games are never played on a midweek afternoon but at night. For the MAC, sacrificing Saturdays in November is worth it from the financial standpoint. They wouldn't be drawing that much better on Saturday and their TV games would be relegated to ESPN3. They get ABC, ESPN, ESPN2 games and big payouts in September and October and then TV slots in November. They don't get that if the conference drops to FCS.

Bowl games do great in ratings. That is why ESPN keeps creating new ones. Even the minor bowl games compete with other sports' big time events. The public treat them as big time football.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Just starting with your first question, I would say more than FBS. Colgate was in the championship game not long ago. More teams in FCS have a legit shot than anyone in G5 within FBS.

And mentioned prior, for every prime time slot a G5 might get (I can’t really recall one), you have 5 games where you either shift the game off campus or play on a Tuesday night. And the postgame bowls for G5 are an embarrassment.

FBS does dwarf FCS - but let’s not pretend G5 is part of that. They’re not.

Colgate's last appearance was 2003. Nearly 20 years ago. That is a century in CFB time.

In terms of access, yes, more FCS teams have access due to the auto bids. In terms of realistic access, most of the teams aren't winning it.

Since 2010, only three different FCS teams have won a title. And one of those seasons was the COVID spring season of 2021 which was a circus and the other team just jumped up to FBS. Since the CFP began in 2014, 5 different FBS teams have won it. Going back to 2010, makes it 7 teams.

The bowls are an embarrassment? Depends on the bowl. Some bowls are packed full of fans. The ratings are good. What is embarrassing is how little coverage most of the FCS playoffs receive.

The G5 is absolutely part of FBS. They are not the dominant partner but they are part of it.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Let's face it, for G5, FCS, or lower divisions, the average people will watch games of "their school" or maybe those who have a family connection. They might watch a conference mate for an interesting matchup. I'm talking average run of the mill population. I could care less about ever watching NM St or Wyoming or Charlotte, etc. whether they are playing each other or even if they are playing a big time P5. I will watch Army and Navy games though. But not AF even though I was in the AF for over 23 years. LOL.

This differs from P5 where, at least for most of the big time programs, a lot more people will watch with little actual connection to the school. They just want to see the big game. I know that for myself, an avid watcher of FCS, it would hard for me to suffer through nearly all G5/G5 game, but I'll watch big Alabama or Clemson, etc games, although I have connection to the latter. But it's even hard for me to watch the lower P5s like Duke, or BC, or Indiana, or Arizona, etc. Not to mention I would be busy watching FCS games.

Claims of big time exposure and prime time slots for G5 just don't wash because they get minuscule ratings compared to good P5 match ups. And I'm pretty sure that FCS playoffs games, at least the semis and final get as good of ratings as the endless who cares G5 bowls. Of which I watched a total of...zero this year.

The only tangible beni for G5 compared to FCS is the money for bowls, if they get one, and even that is sometimes a break even situation; P5 payouts are about double for G5 than for FCS games; and for any broadcast deals, but I'm sure they reflect the anticipated audience. That might be worth a little to some programs. But it is peanuts compared to the same payouts to most P5.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/01/college-football-bowl-ratings-non-playoff-viewership/

Not really. Only better than 8 bowl games. Five of those games were the pre-Christmas midday Monday/Tuesday/Friday slots compared to the Saturday slot for the FCS CG. Also two of the Saturday games were being played at the same time as NFL games.

[ElCid]

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2022/01/college-football-bowl-ratings-non-playoff-viewership/

Not really. Only better than 8 bowl games. Five of those games were the pre-Christmas midday Monday/Tuesday/Friday slots compared to the Saturday slot for the FCS CG. Also two of the Saturday games were being played at the same time as NFL games.

So a good chunk of G5 Bowls? Right? Ok. That was my point. Not ALL Bowls, but the "who cares" bowls. They have proliferated to the point of being meaningless.

[Sitting Bull]

Colgate's last appearance was 2003. Nearly 20 years ago. That is a century in CFB time.

In terms of access, yes, more FCS teams have access due to the auto bids. In terms of realistic access, most of the teams aren't winning it.

Since 2010, only three different FCS teams have won a title. And one of those seasons was the COVID spring season of 2021 which was a circus and the other team just jumped up to FBS. Since the CFP began in 2014, 5 different FBS teams have won it. Going back to 2010, makes it 7 teams.

The bowls are an embarrassment? Depends on the bowl. Some bowls are packed full of fans. The ratings are good. What is embarrassing is how little coverage most of the FCS playoffs receive.

The G5 is absolutely part of FBS. They are not the dominant partner but they are part of it.

Which G5 bowl was packed with fans? Name one that even cleared 20,000? The attendance figures don’t support that at all. The ones I saw were an embarrassment. It was backyard chuck football in empty stadiums. Bahamas, Cure, Potato. The Camellia Bowl was so bad they didn’t even release attendance because it was below 2,000. There were D3 games that drew more than that.

No one said G5 wasn’t part of FBS in the definition. But there’s a reason why you have clarifications like P5 and G5. It’s a fantasy world to think they are on level with P5.

It doesn’t bother me that some schools have moved into G5. Most are just trying to build their name. Most in FCS don’t need football to do that. But I don’t pretend that watching Troy vs Ball State is in any way similar to an SEC or ACC game.

[Sader87]

The G5 is such a vast wasteland of schools no one in America (aside from their alums) cares about....at the very least the FCS has schools (HBCUs, Ivies and Patriot schools) that people have heard of and are interested about.

[DFW HOYA]

The G5 is such a vast wasteland of schools no one in America (aside from their alums) cares about....at the very least the FCS has schools (HBCUs, Ivies and Patriot schools) that people have heard of and are interested about.

People are not interested in the Ivy and Patriot. They just aren't.

[ElCid]

The G5 is such a vast wasteland of schools no one in America (aside from their alums) cares about....at the very least the FCS has schools (HBCUs, Ivies and Patriot schools) that people have heard of and are interested about.


People are not interested in the Ivy and Patriot. They just aren't.

There is definite name recognition though for many FCS. For the average person, not a football fan who follows college football, many G5 have zero name recognition. Most people don't even know that some play football. But many do have at least name recognition, especially those original FBS teams in the G5. But even name recognition doesn't necessary translate into people who will watch or become actual fans or even casual fans. And that applies across the board.

But go ahead and ask a casual fan if they might be interested in watching Middle Tenn St vs ODU football game and see what they say. Or give them an either/or to watch that or two historic, nationally known FCS teams. I do it occasionally just to see what they say. It's crazy what some people say. Even my dad, who is a little bit more than a casual fan, hasn't heard of many G5 teams. He's never heard of many FCS either though. But he knows the old ones. I continue to educate him.

[Sitting Bull]

People are not interested in the Ivy and Patriot. They just aren't.

Not sure on that. I think it depends on how you market. If Harvard/Yale can still draw 50,000+ and Lafayette/ Lehigh can sellout Yankee Stadium (45,000), there’s more interest than some may think,

[DFW HOYA]

Not sure on that. I think it depends on how you market. If Harvard/Yale can still draw 50,000+ and Lafayette/ Lehigh can sellout Yankee Stadium (45,000), there’s more interest than some may think,

Outside of their own regions or alumni communities, very little. How many in New York showed up for the 108th meeting between Columbia vs Cornell? Just 2,020 this past season. How about Bucknell and Colgate, a rivalry that dates to 1894? 1,505. High schools draw more than this.

Georgetown is two years away from the 150th anniversary of the founding of its football program and to this day there are a lot of people who will say "I didn't know Georgetown had a football team."

Unless it's Lehigh-Lafayette (the only game that was shown on two different regional TV stations at the same time) the Patriot League is adept in that old Monty Python routine, "How Not To Be Seen."

[Sitting Bull]

Outside of their own regions or alumni communities, very little. How many in New York showed up for the 108th meeting between Columbia vs Cornell? Just 2,020 this past season. How about Bucknell and Colgate, a rivalry that dates to 1894? 1,505. High schools draw more than this.

Georgetown is two years away from the 150th anniversary of the founding of its football program and to this day there are a lot of people who will say "I didn't know Georgetown had a football team."

Unless it's Lehigh-Lafayette (the only game that was shown on two different regional TV stations at the same time) the Patriot League is adept in that old Monty Python routine, "How Not To Be Seen."

Well that’s the high and low of it. I still think there’s room for smart scheduling (reigniting UNH and Dartmouth, W&M vs VMI, etc), making some games more of an event (Holy Cross/Fordham at Yankee Stadium) or Friday night games (Dartmouth/Harvard) helps.

It works better when the teams involved have decent teams. Your examples are 4 that just don’t - though if Columbia and Cornell tried to make it an event, like Yankee Stadium, they might ignite some interest. The point is to try.

[AmsterBison]

I miss Georgia Southern, but I'm not really interested in seeing NDSU play any of the move-ups.

[Sundog]

Our 2 seats are a total of 2264.00. On the 50 row y. Go blow that row and it gets more expensive.

I'm confused. If you "blow that row" shouldn't it be less expensive, based on tips alone?

[Gil Dobie]

Just paid for 2022 season tickets, prices stayed the same in my section.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Interesting thread with some valid points about the G5. Years ago, before GS moved to the Sunbelt, I argued that the best scenario was to create three Championship Tiers in CFB. The 2nd Tier would include the G5 and the power schools in FCS. Instead of "officially" having those tiers, they are unofficial. We've got the Big Money Corporate NC, the G5 New Years Bowl, and the FCS NC. I loved FCS football. For Georgia Southern, it was a no-brainer to join the SBC. Not only did Ga State start football and join the SBC, but Kennesaw and Mercer started teams. For years, there was UGA and Ga Tech and since the 80's GS was the only other D1 Football program in Georgia. Recruiting, perception, prestige, etc all factor in to being "FBS" for economic reasons. Georgia Southern is making money and has made two extremely poor hiring decisions making 2016-2021 miserable. We're finally ditching the last remnants of option football and doing what everyone else does beginning in 2022.
I'm sure the Dakota and Montana schools would be FBS, but for geography and travel. They are THE schools in their respective states just like Delaware, UNH, Maine, and Rhode Island. App State has done great things and they benefit from their own alumni not having a team like like UGA to root for. I'm extremely excited about the new SBC East Division:
App St
Coastal Carolina
Ga State
Ga Southern
James Madison
Marshall
Old Dominion
The SBC will challenge for the best G5 conference. Disney/ESPN decides everything in College Football and they're only interested in how many people will tune in to watch. That rule does not apply to events where they can show how 'woke' they are.

I miss the playoffs. I miss Furman, Wofford, and El Cid. I definitely wanted another shot at NDSU - at home. App and GS outgrew the SoCon and the SoCon was glad to see us go.

[Sir William]

...and the SoCon was glad to see us go.

Nice post, but I don't necessarily agree with that last statement.

[FUBeAR]

Nice post, but I don't necessarily agree with that last statement.hmmm…FUBeAR felt the same way…except doesn’t necessarily agree with the other part of that same sentence…”App and GS outgrew the SoCon…”

[Sir William]

hmmm…FUBeAR felt the same way…except doesn’t necessarily agree with the other part of that same sentence…”App and GS outgrew the SoCon…”

Agree with you.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

hmmm…FUBeAR felt the same way…except doesn’t necessarily agree with the other part of that same sentence…”App and GS outgrew the SoCon…”


Agree with you.

I don't mean that we were "better" than the SoCon. In the SBC, we're with more peer schools. UTC and Western are Directional U's, but they don't really have the same fan support. Troy and Coastal along with ULL and Arkansas State are a better fit. ULM struggles for dollars and support and Texas State can't seem to get it together on the field but they have everything else in place. South Alabama and Ga State have more degree programs but are still 3rd or 4th fiddle in their states. Furman, Wofford, Samford, Citadel, Mercer are great fits for each other. It's a shame College of Charleston and Elon went North.

I'm not sure about APP, but I know GS invading Furman, Wofford, and Sammy campus wasn't fun for some of the home crowd. Wasn't as much of an issue '06-'09.

A lot of us still keep up with you guys, but it would be miserable for us to share a conference with Mercer and Kennesaw with Ga State as "FBS". I sure hope Eagles can learn to play football again. I doubt we would've won many SoCon games the last 6 years.

[Bisonoline]

Just paid for 2022 season tickets, prices stayed the same in my section.

Mine did to.

[Sir William]

I don't mean that we were "better" than the SoCon. In the SBC, we're with more peer schools. UTC and Western are Directional U's, but they don't really have the same fan support. Troy and Coastal along with ULL and Arkansas State are a better fit. ULM struggles for dollars and support and Texas State can't seem to get it together on the field but they have everything else in place. South Alabama and Ga State have more degree programs but are still 3rd or 4th fiddle in their states. Furman, Wofford, Samford, Citadel, Mercer are great fits for each other. It's a shame College of Charleston and Elon went North.

A lot of us still keep up with you guys, but it would be miserable for us to share a conference with Mercer and Kennesaw with Ga State as "FBS". I sure hope Eagles can learn to play football again. I doubt we would've won many SoCon games the last 6 years.

That's reasonable. I certainly don't fault either App St or GS for moving up. Just hate we lost those two rivalries. Those games were always big at Paladin Stadium and vice versa.

Just promise us one thing in the new Sun Belt...beat the Thundering Herd like a rented mule.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

That's reasonable. I certainly don't fault either App St or GS for moving up. Just hate we lost those two rivalries. Those games were always big at Paladin Stadium and vice versa.

Just promise us one thing in the new Sun Belt...beat the Thundering Herd like a rented mule.


As we just finished Spring practice I can honestly say we have reason to be optimistic. Clay Helton did a heckuva job recruiting for '22 and still have a few portal adds coming in May. We secured Kyle Vantrease from Buffalo who brings experience and stability as our young QB's learn the new system. This won't be a GS team anyone is used to seeing. Tempo offense with goal of 40 passes and 40 runs. Love having Marshall, JMU, and ODU join our side of the conference, but will miss playing Troy every year.

PS. - I still love hate Furple!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wait, there are schools that left FCS? I forget who they are

[Laker]

If you don't mind expanding it to "which FBS program do you wish moved to FCS", then I'd nominate Northern Illinois. They've never actually been I-AA/FCS though. They really belong in the MVFC, but they're not going to admit that. They averaged under 10k fans this last season, and haven't averaged 20k plus in nearly a decade. Their #1, #2, and #6 highest attended games in their stadium's history were against SIU, EIU, and WIU, respectively.

I would love an annual MVFC game against NIU.

Remember when they were pushing to get into the Big 12? Even when they were winning big they never had the fan base for that.

[BigGreenTruck]

Some of you are extremely short sighted. Some schools who left IAA for IA done it because there was nothing left to do. In Marshall's case what would have happened had they stayed IAA after the 1996 season. They more than likely would have done what NDSU is doing right now. And who really wants that. Not even most of NDSU really wants that, Im sure they would rather have a new challenge. They just have no conference to go to and they don't have piles of cash laying on the floor to go indy. After 2 championships and a perfect season it was time for Marshall to try something else.

The New line up of the Sun Belt will have 32% of the IAAs National Championships, 14 of 44 titles
GA Southern 6
Appy State 3
Marshall 2
James Madison 2
Louisiana Monroe 1

Another reason most if not all have left for IA is because a lot of schools in IAA do not fully fund their athletic departments and this includes football programs. The last 7 years Marshall was in the SoCon, their athletic budget was more than ETSU, Western Carolina, UTC and VMI combined. And Appy State, The Cit and GA Southern combined only out paced Marshall's budget by 2.1 million.
.

[FUBeAR]

The last 7 years Marshall was in the SoCon, their athletic budget was more than ETSU, Western Carolina, UTC and VMI combined. And Appy State, The Cit and GA Southern combined only out paced Marshall's budget by 2.1 million.Did those funding figures include allowances for bail money for Marsha’s Football Players (and Coaches) or nah?

[BigGreenTruck]

Did those funding figures include allowances for bail money for Marshall’s Players or nah?

When is the last time Furman or Mercer won anything significant. I can answer you that, it would be for Mercer never and Furman well 34 years ago, 1988 (I was 16 at the time, still a Soph in HS). Or at least 12-13 years before any athlete at Furman right now was even born. Marshall on the other hand in that time span has not 1, not 2 but 3 national titles. 1)1992 IAA Title 31-28 over Youngstown State 2)1996 IAA Title over Montana 49-29 and ooo yeah 3)2020 Men's Soccer College Cup National Championship 1-0 over Indiana (won in the Spring of 2021).

In that time Furman has made the playoffs only 13 times in 34 years and hasn't made it past the 2 round since 2005. Mercer on the other hand since bringing back football and entering the SoCon hasn't won more than 6 games in a season. With 0 playoffs.

I played nice at 1st but Furman, VMI and others who didn't fully fund their programs are exactly the reason Marshall left the SoCon. When you played in a sub division where 62% of the programs really didn't care if they had a football program or not was disheartening. And now that some of the last lifeboats off IAA island since 2014, this place will be NDSUs playground and the Munchkins. Everyone is just playing for 2nd place. And what do they say, Second place is just the first loser.

[ElCid]

Another reason most if not all have left for IA is because a lot of schools in IAA do not fully fund their athletic departments and this includes football programs. The last 7 years Marshall was in the SoCon, their athletic budget was more than ETSU, Western Carolina, UTC and VMI combined. And Appy State, The Cit and GA Southern combined only out paced Marshall's budget by 2.1 million.
.

What does "fully fund" their athletic department mean. They give out IOUs? Schools budget and fund each of their department to their ability and desire to meet the goals of their school as a whole and not just one department. If that is what Marshall wanted to do, great. It is obvious that the other schools you mention had competing desires and goals. But I'm sure they were all fully funded. Maybe not to the degree that some wanted but this is a different issue. I'm not sure that schools that build their institution solely on athletics will be on a firm, well rounded foundation. It's obviously a balance. One that is particular to each school as well.

And for all that funding that Marshall had the last seven years, besides football, how many championships did they have? Compared to the "underfunded" schools?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

What does "fully fund" their athletic department mean. They give out IOUs? Schools budget and fund each of their department to their ability and desire to meet the goals of their school as a whole and not just one department. If that is what Marshall wanted to do, great. It is obvious that the other schools you mention had competing desires and goals. But I'm sure they were all fully funded. Maybe not to the degree that some wanted but this is a different issue. I'm not sure that schools that build their institution solely on athletics will be on a firm, well rounded foundation. It's obviously a balance. One that is particular to each school as well.

And for all that funding that Marshall had the last seven years, besides football, how many championships did they have? Compared to the "underfunded" schools?

There's the issue on the head. The Citadel, Mercer, Furman, Wofford, Samford, VMI and like schools have traditions and attract students for many reasons and athletics events are superlative. Directional U's are the red-headed step-children of their respective states and some have been popular enough to develop a loyal fanbase and be competitive, but still lack the Big Money of their state's flagship. Then there's Delaware, New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Dakota, and Idaho schools who are challenged by geography, population, finances, and/or interest.

In the Sunbelt, South Alabama and Ga State are metros with very little fan support, although South Alabama is still miles ahead of Ga State. Louisiana Monroe is just dirt poor and has the unfortunate luck of being right next door to La Tech. The rest of the conference are schools with loyal fanbases who care A LOT about football which makes for exciting matchups and well-attended, loud games.

I don't buy into the crap about the FBS being a big deal in G5 conferences or even the also-rans in the P5. 22 extra scholarships and more media attention than FCS does make a difference in recruiting and perception, but your average SEC fan puts us all in the same boat. We are in the same boat when it comes to competing with the Fortune 40 schools who generate over $100 million revenue in athletics and control the NCAA.

I thought it'd be cool if ND ST., SD St, Montana, Montana St., E. Washington, and three others in the footprint reconstituted the WAC Football Conference. Most of those schools are already competitive.

[FUBeAR]

When is the last time Furman or Mercer won anything significant. I can answer you that, it would be for Mercer never and Furman well 34 years ago, 1988 (I was 16 at the time, still a Soph in HS). Or at least 12-13 years before any athlete at Furman right now was even born. Marshall on the other hand in that time span has not 1, not 2 but 3 national titles. 1)1992 IAA Title 31-28 over Youngstown State 2)1996 IAA Title over Montana 49-29 and ooo yeah 3)2020 Men's Soccer College Cup National Championship 1-0 over Indiana (won in the Spring of 2021).

In that time Furman has made the playoffs only 13 times in 34 years and hasn't made it past the 2 round since 2005. Mercer on the other hand since bringing back football and entering the SoCon hasn't won more than 6 games in a season. With 0 playoffs.

I played nice at 1st but Furman, VMI and others who didn't fully fund their programs are exactly the reason Marshall left the SoCon. When you played in a sub division where 62% of the programs really didn't care if they had a football program or not was disheartening. And now that some of the last lifeboats off IAA island since 2014, this place will be NDSUs playground and the Munchkins. Everyone is just playing for 2nd place. And what do they say, Second place is just the first loser.So…Yes, then…Bail money was included?


…and no meaningful Football accomplishments in almost 30 years? You’re crowing about that?


BTW … say what you would like, regardless of what year it was, but just KNOW that FUBeAR’s Paladins absolutely bashed your Blundering Turd every time (6-0, avg. diff > 4TD’s) he and those Paladins took the field against that sorry mass of miscreants and added more disappointment to the already miserable lives of their drunken, foul-mouthed, wouldn’t-know-class-if-you-smacked-em-on-their-inbred-foreheads-with-it fans. It was always glorious listening to that lot of losers insult us (while hurling empty liquor bottles and other objects from the stands) as we continued to pile up points on the scoreboard and completely destroyed the only joy they had hoped for that week. Good times.

[ElCid]

There's the issue on the head. The Citadel, Mercer, Furman, Wofford, Samford, VMI and like schools have traditions and attract students for many reasons and athletics events are superlative. Directional U's are the red-headed step-children of their respective states and some have been popular enough to develop a loyal fanbase and be competitive, but still lack the Big Money of their state's flagship. Then there's Delaware, New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Dakota, and Idaho schools who are challenged by geography, population, finances, and/or interest.

In the Sunbelt, South Alabama and Ga State are metros with very little fan support, although South Alabama is still miles ahead of Ga State. Louisiana Monroe is just dirt poor and has the unfortunate luck of being right next door to La Tech. The rest of the conference are schools with loyal fanbases who care A LOT about football which makes for exciting matchups and well-attended, loud games.

I don't buy into the crap about the FBS being a big deal in G5 conferences or even the also-rans in the P5. 22 extra scholarships and more media attention than FCS does make a difference in recruiting and perception, but your average SEC fan puts us all in the same boat. We are in the same boat when it comes to competing with the Fortune 40 schools who generate over $100 million revenue in athletics and control the NCAA.

I thought it'd be cool if ND ST., SD St, Montana, Montana St., E. Washington, and three others in the footprint reconstituted the WAC Football Conference. Most of those schools are already competitive.

That's a well thought out and pretty accurate assessment.

[Sitting Bull]

To each his own but given the extensive number of schools who transitioned from FCS to FBS, it’s very difficult beyond possibly Boise State to name many whose biggest program years were outside their time in FCS. That includes Marshall, Georgia Southern, UMass, Louisiana Tech, etc.

It’s another reason why North Dakota State, Delaware, Montana, etc aren’t taking the bait. All they have to do is look around at those who jumped in this stagnant pond.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There's the issue on the head. The Citadel, Mercer, Furman, Wofford, Samford, VMI and like schools have traditions and attract students for many reasons and athletics events are superlative. Directional U's are the red-headed step-children of their respective states and some have been popular enough to develop a loyal fanbase and be competitive, but still lack the Big Money of their state's flagship. Then there's Delaware, New Hampshire, Maine, Montana, Dakota, and Idaho schools who are challenged by geography, population, finances, and/or interest.

In the Sunbelt, South Alabama and Ga State are metros with very little fan support, although South Alabama is still miles ahead of Ga State. Louisiana Monroe is just dirt poor and has the unfortunate luck of being right next door to La Tech. The rest of the conference are schools with loyal fanbases who care A LOT about football which makes for exciting matchups and well-attended, loud games.

I don't buy into the crap about the FBS being a big deal in G5 conferences or even the also-rans in the P5. 22 extra scholarships and more media attention than FCS does make a difference in recruiting and perception, but your average SEC fan puts us all in the same boat. We are in the same boat when it comes to competing with the Fortune 40 schools who generate over $100 million revenue in athletics and control the NCAA.

I thought it'd be cool if ND ST., SD St, Montana, Montana St., E. Washington, and three others in the footprint reconstituted the WAC Football Conference. Most of those schools are already competitive.

Since you're beloved Eagles have now been out of our division for 7 or 8 years, you might not have heard but the WAC has already been reconstituted and is an FCS football conference with the likes of Dixie State, Abilene Christian and Tarleton State. Sam Houston was in it for a hot second before they got invited to CUSA starting this coming fall. The WAC also includes New Mexico State, Grand Canyon and Seattle U. for basketball and other sports.

A similar idea I had posted was that NDSU, SDSU, Idaho, Montana, Montana and Montana State could've approached CUSA at the point it was down to 4 or 5 remaining members and offered to form a 7-team Mountain West Division along with UTEP and New Mexico State.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Since you're beloved Eagles have now been out of our division for 7 or 8 years, you might not have heard but the WAC has already been reconstituted and is an FCS football conference with the likes of Dixie State, Abilene Christian and Tarleton State. Sam Houston was in it for a hot second before they got invited to CUSA starting this coming fall. The WAC also includes New Mexico State, Grand Canyon and Seattle U. for basketball and other sports.

A similar idea I had posted was that NDSU, SDSU, Idaho, Montana, Montana and Montana State could've approached CUSA at the point it was down to 4 or 5 remaining members and offered to form a 7-team Mountain West Division along with UTEP and New Mexico State.

Definitely didn't know that about the WAC and I suppose I should've wondered where those four FCS move-ups went to. I guess I assumed the Southland.

I'm not sure what benefit, if any, G5 FBS would bring for the Montana's, Washington's, Dakota's. I think UMass and Uconn have proven that the Northeast doesn't really do college football on a modern scale. Professional sports are more their thing. When you look at budgets and trying to generate revenue, G5 FBS offers bigger P5 payouts, more media coverage, and better OOC name recognition on some schedules.

If people in the Southeast weren't so nuts about football, there's no way App, GS, Troy, Southern Miss would be in a G5. All those schools along with Jax St. are supported strongly by their little communities with App generating more Alumni excitement since 2005. Chattanooga is just a little too big of a city to overcome the Orange. Charlotte, Ga St, UAB, South Alabama have money to overcome lukewarm fan support. With over 250 D1 schools playing football, we probably could use at least 3 divisions with Tiers 2 and 3 having their own championships. The reason that doesn't happen is G5's and some FCS provide P5's with teams to fill out their OOC schedule and have 7 or 8 home games. Home games are a lot of revenue for most of the SEC, B1G, and some ACC.

Seeing as Disney controls College Football, it might be worth it to find good football players who are Gay and/or Transgender. That team would have College Game Day visit and be featured by every media outlet in the Western world for weeks.

[Gil Dobie]

I miss the playoffs. I miss Furman, Wofford, and El Cid. I definitely wanted another shot at NDSU - at home. App and GS outgrew the SoCon and the SoCon was glad to see us go.
I was disappointed when Georgia Southern bailed on their first scheduled trip to Fargo. I had been hoping for a game since the 1980s, when both programs were winning championships. IMO, NDSU could have beaten some of those GSU championship teams. Would have been fun watching those two great option teams go at it on the field.

[OhioHen]

I was disappointed when Georgia Southern bailed on their first scheduled trip to Fargo. I had been hoping for a game since the 1980s, when both programs were winning championships. IMO, NDSU could have beaten some of those GSU championship teams. Would have been fun watching those two great option teams go at it on the field.
And the game would have been over in less than two and a half hours. No incomplete passes to stop the clock.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I'd say the 2011 and 2012 teams that played at NDSU were the "worst" of our good teams. The '85-'86 NC teams actually threw a lot more as Paul Johnson was installing the Flex-Bone offense. QB Tracy Ham was a true Dual Threat passer. The '89 undefeated team was special and what was left in '90 basically defied coaching changes and won a NC in spite of Tim Stowers. The '98-'00 Paul Johnson teams were absolutely dominant with blazing speed everywhere. I have a lot of respect for the NDSU program, but I don't think the D2 teams of that time would've fared well if that's what you meant. NDSU and most of the schools in FCS and G5 are miles apart. NDSU has an endowment more than 5x ours and is a flagship school. You have ZERO schools in your region with a competitive history or tradition. It's really a shame that NDSU and SDSU geography makes it hard to find an FBS home. I have no doubt, the programs would compete at a high level.

[POD Knows]

I'd say the 2011 and 2012 teams that played at NDSU were the "worst" of our good teams. The '85-'86 NC teams actually threw a lot more as Paul Johnson was installing the Flex-Bone offense. QB Tracy Ham was a true Dual Threat passer. The '89 undefeated team was special and what was left in '90 basically defied coaching changes and won a NC in spite of Tim Stowers. The '98-'00 Paul Johnson teams were absolutely dominant with blazing speed everywhere. I have a lot of respect for the NDSU program, but I don't think the D2 teams of that time would've fared well if that's what you meant. NDSU and most of the schools in FCS and G5 are miles apart. NDSU has an endowment more than 5x ours and is a flagship school. You have ZERO schools in your region with a competitive history or tradition. It's really a shame that NDSU and SDSU geography makes it hard to find an FBS home. I have no doubt, the programs would compete at a high level.
Yea. And those Bison teams were the worst of our good teams as well.

[Gil Dobie]

I'd say the 2011 and 2012 teams that played at NDSU were the "worst" of our good teams. The '85-'86 NC teams actually threw a lot more as Paul Johnson was installing the Flex-Bone offense. QB Tracy Ham was a true Dual Threat passer. The '89 undefeated team was special and what was left in '90 basically defied coaching changes and won a NC in spite of Tim Stowers. The '98-'00 Paul Johnson teams were absolutely dominant with blazing speed everywhere. I have a lot of respect for the NDSU program, but I don't think the D2 teams of that time would've fared well if that's what you meant. NDSU and most of the schools in FCS and G5 are miles apart. NDSU has an endowment more than 5x ours and is a flagship school. You have ZERO schools in your region with a competitive history or tradition. It's really a shame that NDSU and SDSU geography makes it hard to find an FBS home. I have no doubt, the programs would compete at a high level.

I'm talking the 1980s NDSU teams could have beat the 1980s GSU teams. We had a bad coach for a time in the 1990s.

[F'N Hawks]

I'm talking the 1980s NDSU teams could have beat the 1980s GSU teams. We had a bad coach for a time in the 1990s.

He wasn't the same coach you had in the 80's?

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I'm talking the 1980s NDSU teams could have beat the 1980s GSU teams. We had a bad coach for a time in the 1990s.

We'll never know. Suffice to say NDSU has a super strong tradition and has notable success regardless of level.

[Go...gate]

Coastal Carolina. They still owe Colgate a return game in Hamilton from some years back.

Massachusetts. Colgate had some history with them.

[Gil Dobie]

He wasn't the same coach you had in the 80's?

Babich

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

So a good chunk of G5 Bowls? Right? Ok. That was my point. Not ALL Bowls, but the "who cares" bowls. They have proliferated to the point of being meaningless.

Eight out of 43 games is not a good chunk.

Most bowls have always been who cares bowls. They were exhibitions designed to increased tourism and revenue since 1902.

But they remain good for ratings. ESPN wouldn't own dozens of them if they weren't.

[Pards Rule]

This. The uneven geographic distribution of FBS conferences is really stupid, as is the bowl system. Pretty much any school that can't even generate 2 million in ticket sales for the entire athletic department should not be FBS. That's a pretty low bar. https://www.sportico.com/business/commerce/2021/college-sports-finances-database-intercollegiate-1234646029/

75 Bowling Green $1,998,702
76 Southern Mississippi $1,947,563
77 Charlotte $1,864,863
78 Toledo $1,850,523
79 New Mexico State $1,804,231
80 FAU $1,740,684
81 North Texas $1,683,630
82 Western Michigan $1,665,803
83 Georgia Southern $1,655,667
84 UTEP $1,626,736
85 UAB $1,585,356
86 Louisiana, Lafayette $1,538,645
87 Ball State $1,493,985
88 Louisiana Tech $1,410,198
89 Massachusetts $1,355,171
90 UTSA $1,345,297
91 Miami (Ohio) $1,341,420
92 Middle Tennessee $1,334,117
93 Akron $1,297,149
94 Buffalo $1,266,221
95 Ohio $1,093,472
96 Arkansas State $1,091,912
97 FIU $1,091,680
98 Northern Illinois $996,307
99 San Jose State $975,649
100 Texas State $846,357
101 Coastal Carolina $774,834
102 Central Michigan $737,914
103 Louisiana, Monroe $682,966
104 Eastern Michigan $675,734
105 Georgia State $664,017
106 South Alabama $531,688
107 Kent State $342,851

Hey I would take the take our cousin UL-L has at $1.5 but can we stay at FCS...I will REALLY miss Delaware as I think we could have gotten somne real good games with them going forward.

[caribbeanhen]

Someone needs to grab the torch and run with my CUSA Mountain West Division idea. Such a group of schools competing with one another at the G5 level would be very similar to the Sun Belt group IMO.

For those unfamiliar, I'm referring to North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and Idaho moving up together to play in a CUSA division with UTEP and New Mexico State. Then CUSA could add a couple more to create another 7-team division in the Gulf region.

So what happened?

UMass joining Delaware soon

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

FCS is so dominated by NDSU it would not matter if any other school was still FCS, NDSU would just kick their ass too.

The App State team from 2007 would like to have a word with the 2007 NDSU team.

[BisonFan02]

The App State team from 2007 would like to have a word with the 2007 NDSU team.

We'll never know but the 2006 and 2007 Bison teams were both capable.....would've been interesting to say the least.

[taper]

The App State team from 2007 would like to have a word with the 2007 NDSU team.
I really wish that game could have happened. NDSU had 2 FBS wins including a 44-14 destruction of the eventual MAC champion. 10-1 with a one score loss to SDSU in the final week. Ranked #1 or 2 most of the season. Technically still in the D2->D1 transition and not eligible for playoffs despite meeting all requirements other than calendar. That SDSU loss let the NCAA keep us out. NDSU/App would be an instant classic no matter how it went.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I really wish that game could have happened. NDSU had 2 FBS wins including a 44-14 destruction of the eventual MAC champion. 10-1 with a one score loss to SDSU in the final week. Ranked #1 or 2 most of the season. Technically still in the D2->D1 transition and not eligible for playoffs despite meeting all requirements other than calendar. That SDSU loss let the NCAA keep us out. NDSU/App would be an instant classic no matter how it went.

I am fairly certain that even with a win, you still would've been left out because of the whole transition thing.

[mvfcfan]

Western Kentucky
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State

I don't think the MAC has ever been FCS, but I wish the entire conference was.

[ysubigred]

Western KY and Marshall are both decent distances for road games.

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

[NY Crusader 2010]

Western Kentucky
Appalachian State
Georgia Southern
James Madison
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State

I don't think the MAC has ever been FCS, but I wish the entire conference was.

The entire MAC was I-AA for 1 or 2 years in the mid-1980's before they lobbied to move back up. This was when the divide was based on attendance, and the league's schools inflated attendance figures for a couple seasons to get back to I-A. Some of it may have been legit -- no Tuesday night ESPN games yet at that time. I'm sure there were marketing campaigns to donors to buy blocks of tickets so they could hit the number.

[taper]

The entire MAC was I-AA for 1 or 2 years in the mid-1980's before they lobbied to move back up. This was when the divide was based on attendance, and the league's schools inflated attendance figures for a couple seasons to get back to I-A. Some of it may have been legit -- no Tuesday night ESPN games yet at that time. I'm sure there were marketing campaigns to donors to buy blocks of tickets so they could hit the number.
Are you sure about this? I haven't seen anything saying MAC was ever I-AA.

[OL FU]

While it is what it is, Georgia Southern and App State were great rivals. so yes I miss them.

[FUBeAR]

While it is what it is, Georgia Southern and App State were great rivals. so yes I miss them.
That’s OK.

ALL of their fans’ Moms missed ALL of their pre-natal checkups because their brother/cousin/baby-daddy’s were using the truck and couldn’t drive ‘em. And they’ve ALL missed ALL of their preventative Dental Appointments, so you are not alone in your “missing.”

[OL FU]

That’s OK.

ALL of their fans’ Moms missed ALL of their pre-natal checkups because their brother/cousin/baby-daddy’s were using the truck and couldn’t drive ‘em. And they’ve ALL missed ALL of their preventative Dental Appointments, so you are not alone in your “missing.”

If I had a clue what you are trying to say I might respond differentlyxeyebrowx

[ElCid]

Are you sure about this? I haven't seen anything saying MAC was ever I-AA.

It wasn't IAA ever. A couple teams that were IAA might have moved up to join them, but they were IA for the duration.

As I understand it, at least from what I've heard, the reason they were IA to begin with was so the Big 10 could have some nearby IA patsies to pad their record for bowl requirements. So they had a powerful ally to ensure the NCAA didn't give them grief. They did have some fairly good teams back in the 70s, but they sank lower and lower as the 80s progressed.

[FUBeAR]

If I had a clue what you are trying to say I might respond differentlyxeyebrowx
Sayin’ you ain’t gonna run into many GaSou or Appy Fans at Sunday Brunch at the Greenville Country Club.

[taper]

If I had a clue what you are trying to say I might respond differentlyxeyebrowx
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/04/03/23/69438215-11934633-image-a-15_1680559683779.jpg

[NY Crusader 2010]

It wasn't IAA ever. A couple teams that were IAA might have moved up to join them, but they were IA for the duration.

As I understand it, at least from what I've heard, the reason they were IA to begin with was so the Big 10 could have some nearby IA patsies to pad their record for bowl requirements. So they had a powerful ally to ensure the NCAA didn't give them grief. They did have some fairly good teams back in the 70s, but they sank lower and lower as the 80s progressed.

I thought there was one year where the MAC was forced down but was able to re-join I-A by inflating attendance figures.

It appears that what actually happened is a handful of MAC schools were designated to be dropped down to I-AA due to not averaging enough in attendance, and having stadia below the min. capacity requirement. Those schools were allowed to stay in the MAC and compete in I-A in football and were given an opportunity to boost attendance to meet the requirements the following year, which they did. And then the MAC was able to stay in I-A, in full.

Something similar happened to the Ivy where Yale, Princeton and I think Penn would've qualified to remain in I-A while the rest would've been knocked down. Of course, the Ivies stayed together and dropped to I-AA.

[ElCid]

I thought there was one year where the MAC was forced down but was able to re-join I-A by inflating attendance figures.

It appears that what actually happened is a handful of MAC schools were designated to be dropped down to I-AA due to not averaging enough in attendance, and having stadia below the min. capacity requirement. Those schools were allowed to stay in the MAC and compete in I-A in football and were given an opportunity to boost attendance to meet the requirements the following year, which they did. And then the MAC was able to stay in I-A, in full.

Something similar happened to the Ivy where Yale, Princeton and I think Penn would've qualified to remain in I-A while the rest would've been knocked down. Of course, the Ivies stayed together and dropped to I-AA.

It was a confusing time. I seem to recall the uproar. Their attendance was (is) a joke.

Different conferences dropped at different times. It's funny to look at the NCAA list of IAA wins over IA from 82-86 because it has many listed that were in reality IAA over IAA, because some hadn't dropped yet but we're in practice still IAA. It's not like they ever had 85 scholarships. The Southern dropped to IAA in 1982 as well as the Ivies. I think the Missouri Valley, not entirely the same as current obviously, dropped for the 87 season. It was pretty much set as it is today by 87.

[rhowdyram]

UMass. In theory I could say UConn as well, but at least their FBS decision makes sense even if it was executed like crap. UMass still plays in virtually the same stadium as they were when they were in FCS and they're about to bolt the A10 for a garbage version of Conference USA. They shouldn't be leaving the A10 in all sports, they should be dropping football down and looking to rejoin the CAA in football only.

[Gil Dobie]

Miss the fans that post here, schools, not a big deal.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UMass. In theory I could say UConn as well, but at least their FBS decision makes sense even if it was executed like crap. UMass still plays in virtually the same stadium as they were when they were in FCS and they're about to bolt the A10 for a garbage version of Conference USA. They shouldn't be leaving the A10 in all sports, they should be dropping football down and looking to rejoin the CAA in football only.

Agree with you on UMass. Their move was a total fiasco. I also don't understand why the MAC invited them as an affiliate to begin with, knowing that UMass likely wouldn't cave and join for all sports.

At this point, if UMass wants to stay FBS, they should just bite the bullet and join CUSA. It's not like being in a multi-bid basketball league has helped them very much. They've had just NCAA appearance since 1998, which was in 2014. If they aren't willing to leave the A-10, they should drop football back to FCS though for sure.

UConn's move up was totally understandable at the time -- they thought they were joining a league with BC, Miami and Virginia Tech. And the state of Connecticut was ready to pay for a new stadium after having tried to lure the Patriots out of Foxboro. UMass totally failed to read the tea leaves with regards to the collapse of the Big East. They thought they would be able to utilize Bob Kraft's influence to gain membership there, hence all the home games at Gillette in the early 2010's.

[rhowdyram]

Temple was in the MAC for football at the time, so the MAC was hoping they could eventually use the old school basketball rivalry to get Temple and UMass to join in all sports. I can see the logic at least. It was very smart of the MAC to make it a condition of UMass joining that if Temple football left UMass would have to join for all sports or their football could be dropped from the MAC.

[bonarae]

I opened a new thread here somewhat related to this topic.

Who do you think made the biggest mistake football-wise (or athletic program-wise) by moving the program up or dropping the sport from their varsity ranks?

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?347824-Which-ex-FCS-program-made-the-biggest-mistake-by-moving-up-or-dropping-the-program

[NY Crusader 2010]

Temple was in the MAC for football at the time, so the MAC was hoping they could eventually use the old school basketball rivalry to get Temple and UMass to join in all sports. I can see the logic at least. It was very smart of the MAC to make it a condition of UMass joining that if Temple football left UMass would have to join for all sports or their football could be dropped from the MAC.

I didn't know that was the conditions laid out. Forgot that UMass and Temple overlapped in the MAC. Interesting and makes sense now. And looking back, they probably should've joined for all sports if remaining FBS in football was a serious value. Like I said before, it's not like A-10 membership has helped UMass much as far as making it to the NCAA tournament. They may as well have played in a one-bid league the past 25 years. That being said, I still think the best of both worlds solution for them would be to stay in the A-10 and go back to the CAA for football. That's very unlikely to happen and even less likely now with Delaware going to CUSA.

[bonarae]

Hero Sports has compiled a list of the move uppers since 2008.

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-to-fbs-transitions-bzbz/

[grizband]

Miss the fans that post here, schools, not a big deal.
This, right here! Missing fans from Georgia Southern, App State, Coastal Carolina, Liberty, James Madison, etc...