More CAA Additions?

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/HBCUGameday/status/1488636866249338883

[caribbeanhen]

Why not Delaware State

[Panther88]

https://twitter.com/HBCUGameday/status/1488636866249338883

No disrespect to NCA&T but wouldn't it be more prudent for NCA&T to stay in the Big South, from a geographic and budgeting standpoint?

I understand the interest in Howard but I'm unsure how alums would feel about such a move, coupled w/ ineptness in the athletic administrative staff since forever.

[ElCid]

Why not Delaware State

Hmm.

Delaware St....NC A&T.....Delaware St.....NC A&T.....Really? LOL.

But if either/both does join, the rump BS and MEAC will need to merge or they will fade away entirely. At least in regard to FB. I'm still thinking that the CAA is still sniffing around in anticipation of some earth shattering announcement by some existing schools.

[Mocs123]

Yes it makes since from a geographical and budgeting standpoint for NC A&T to stay in the Big South, but the CAA is a more prestigious and more stable conference. The Big South seems like it's in crisis mode every couple of years, though with KSU and Monmouth leaving, NC A&T would have the inside track to the playoff every year if they stay put.

I imagine the CAA isn't interested in Delaware St. because either the CAA doesn't feel like they bring anything to the table or Delaware doesn't want them in the CAA (or both).

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yes it makes since from a geographical and budgeting standpoint for NC A&T to stay in the Big South, but the CAA is a more prestigious and more stable conference. The Big South seems like it's in crisis mode every couple of years, though with KSU and Monmouth leaving, NC A&T would have the inside track to the playoff every year if they stay put.

I imagine the CAA isn't interested in Delaware St. because either the CAA doesn't feel like they bring anything to the table or Delaware doesn't want them in the CAA (or both).

The first part of that statement is absolutely true. The second part is maybe true.

[WestCoastAggie]

No disrespect to NCA&T but wouldn't it be more prudent for NCA&T to stay in the Big South, from a geographic and budgeting standpoint?

I understand the interest in Howard but I'm unsure how alums would feel about such a move, coupled w/ ineptness in the athletic administrative staff since forever.

No disrespect was detected at the slightest bit with your questions. I agree and this is something the AD and Chancellor will have to heavily consider. However, the abrupt instability of Big South football is seemingly not liked at all.

[caribbeanhen]

Yes it makes since from a geographical and budgeting standpoint for NC A&T to stay in the Big South, but the CAA is a more prestigious and more stable conference. The Big South seems like it's in crisis mode every couple of years, though with KSU and Monmouth leaving, NC A&T would have the inside track to the playoff every year if they stay put.

I imagine the CAA isn't interested in Delaware St. because either the CAA doesn't feel like they bring anything to the table or Delaware doesn't want them in the CAA (or both).

Well I was being a bit facitious

[taper]

While not much more than a technicality right now, CAA football is a single sport conference legally separate from the CAA. With 2 more full members the regular CAA goes up to 9 football schools. Assuming nobody is leaving, that's the perfect number for a conference. CAA schools would have a majority vote to disband the CAA football conference then directly sponsor FB. That leaves 6 schools hanging in the breeze. That is enough for an autobid conference, plus it's not impossible they'd pull Youngstown out of the MVFC.
Not placing odds on this happening, but the funny part is this would be a massive change in FCS yet mean almost nothing overall as the same teams in the same region still play each other.

[WestCoastAggie]

While not much more than a technicality right now, CAA football is a single sport conference legally separate from the CAA. With 2 more full members the regular CAA goes up to 9 football schools. Assuming nobody is leaving, that's the perfect number for a conference. CAA schools would have a majority vote to disband the CAA football conference then directly sponsor FB. That leaves 6 schools hanging in the breeze. That is enough for an autobid conference, plus it's not impossible they'd pull Youngstown out of the MVFC.
Not placing odds on this happening, but the funny part is this would be a massive change in FCS yet mean almost nothing overall as the same teams in the same region still play each other.

I think Richmond and Villanova would want to stick with the core CAA teams. If they do that, I don't think there would be 6 to form a new NE football conference.

[DFW HOYA]

I understand the interest in Howard but I'm unsure how alums would feel about such a move, coupled w/ ineptness in the athletic administrative staff since forever.

That's an important point. Howard has been able to hide their deficiencies in the MEAC but it wouldn't be hidden for long in the CAA. At this point, Howard would be at the bottom of CAA football and in the second tier in basketball.

[Sitting Bull]

I think it’s over. The league now has 12 all sports members, 7 of which sponsor football. They’re in a good spot.

None of the schools mentioned as potential additional candidates bring much of added value for now.

[DEX]

No disrespect to NCA&T but wouldn't it be more prudent for NCA&T to stay in the Big South, from a geographic and budgeting standpoint?

I understand the interest in Howard but I'm unsure how alums would feel about such a move, coupled w/ ineptness in the athletic administrative staff since forever.

Yes, it would be more prudent to remain in the BSC.....if they can hold things together.

[ElCid]

While not much more than a technicality right now, CAA football is a single sport conference legally separate from the CAA. With 2 more full members the regular CAA goes up to 9 football schools. Assuming nobody is leaving, that's the perfect number for a conference. CAA schools would have a majority vote to disband the CAA football conference then directly sponsor FB. That leaves 6 schools hanging in the breeze. That is enough for an autobid conference, plus it's not impossible they'd pull Youngstown out of the MVFC.
Not placing odds on this happening, but the funny part is this would be a massive change in FCS yet mean almost nothing overall as the same teams in the same region still play each other.

That is a different take. I keep thinking it is the adopted schools thinking of going and not the conf thinking of disbanding and leaving them orphans. Interesting.

[mainejeff]

That is a different take. I keep thinking it is the adopted schools thinking of going and not the conf thinking of disbanding and leaving them orphans. Interesting.

Different take for sure.

Let's play.

CAA adds Albany & Howard as all-sport members.

CAA then has 9 football members and disbands CAA Football.

UNH, Maine, URI, Richmond and Villanova are jettisoned.

CAA:

Albany
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Delaware
Towson
Howard
Hampton
W&M
Elon

Richmond and Villanova join Patriot League as associate football members.

Patriot League:

Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Villanova
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown
Richmond

Villanova and Delaware can still schedule annual OOC game. Richmond and W&M can still schedule annual OOC game.

UNH, Maine and URI join NEC as associate football members.

NEC:

Maine
UNH
Merrimack
URI
Bryant
Central Connecticut
LIU
Wagner
St. Francis
Duquesne

I wouldn't say that this is entirely unrealistic.


I just don't see the CAA adding schools like NC A&T and Campbell for football and then jettisoning UNH, Maine, URI, Nova and Richmond. Delaware and W&M would not go for that.....they would go for my scenario IMO.

[centraljerseycat]

Yuck...bad enough adding Monmouth and Hampton but adding 2-3 HBCU's would just drag the football side down big time. If that's the case my hope would be for Nova, UD, Richmond, W&M and the 3 New England schools to vamoose to form their football only conference and add any combination of Albany, Holy Cross or Fordham. Or try to convince the Patriot to abandon their archaic AI and redshirt rules and join that league with anyone who wants to come along.

[UNHWildcat18]

Yuck...bad enough adding Monmouth and Hampton but adding 2-3 HBCU's would just drag the football side down big time. If that's the case my hope would be for Nova, UD, Richmond, W&M and the 3 New England schools to vamoose to form their football only conference and add any combination of Albany, Holy Cross or Fordham. Or try to convince the Patriot to abandon their archaic AI and redshirt rules and join that league with anyone who wants to come along.

If they added NC&T Howard Campbell and High point I think you’d find the affiliates sadly looking at the patriot option if they dropped all bull crap rules. Nova URI UNH Maine Albany could bring them to 12…. I don’t want to lose W&M UD Richmond Towson and SBU as conference mates for football… but if that happened to what end……?

Towson UD and W&M won’t leave the CAA ever. Even if this happened

[Sitting Bull]

I think this bird is cooked. The CAA doesn’t need any more adds. The original tweet from HBCU seems more an attempt to attract attention and discussion. Not happening.

[WestCoastAggie]

I think this bird is cooked. The CAA doesn’t need any more adds. The original tweet from HBCU seems more an attempt to attract attention and discussion. Not happening.

That's what I'm thinking too.

[NHwildEcat]

Different take for sure.

Let's play.

CAA adds Albany & Howard as all-sport members.

CAA then has 9 football members and disbands CAA Football.

UNH, Maine, URI, Richmond and Villanova are jettisoned.

CAA:

Albany
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Delaware
Towson
Howard
Hampton
W&M
Elon

Richmond and Villanova join Patriot League as associate football members.

Patriot League:

Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Villanova
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown
Richmond

Villanova and Delaware can still schedule annual OOC game. Richmond and W&M can still schedule annual OOC game.

UNH, Maine and URI join NEC as associate football members.

NEC:

Maine
UNH
Merrimack
URI
Bryant
Central Connecticut
LIU
Wagner
St. Francis
Duquesne

I wouldn't say that this is entirely unrealistic.


I just don't see the CAA adding schools like NC A&T and Campbell for football and then jettisoning UNH, Maine, URI, Nova and Richmond. Delaware and W&M would not go for that.....they would go for my scenario IMO.

I think I would be sick to my stomach if UNH played in the NEC.

[UNHWildcat18]

I think I would be sick to my stomach if UNH played in the NEC.

yeah I’d lose my lunch as welll

[paward]

Spiders to Patriot?

[DFW HOYA]

Spiders to Patriot?

No one goes to the Patriot. (Some good reasons why.)

[DEX]

I think this bird is cooked. The CAA doesn’t need any more adds. The original tweet from HBCU seems more an attempt to attract attention and discussion. Not happening.

Hopefully this ends up being nothing more than click bait. No disrespect to the CAA but I think we're better off remaining in the Big South. Heck, we haven't even finished unpacking the Uhaul having just moved from the MEAC.
Still viable options out there for The Big South before we start looking to hit the road again. I would love to see something worked out between the MEAC, Big South and perhaps even the OVC since all are facing similar situations.

[Dane96]

No one goes to the Patriot. (Some good reasons why.)

If the Patriot woke up, it could be an incredibly competitive league. It should target William & Mary for all sports. That would likely bring in Nova and Richmond for football. That would be a heck of an all-sport league and change the way football is viewed by recruits.

However, the Patriot WON'T wake up, it will be stuck in its ways...W&M will stay in the CAA (slight chance they go to the SoCon...but highly doubtful), and the status quo will remain.

[Southsider]

If the Patriot woke up, it could be an incredibly competitive league. It should target William & Mary for all sports. That would likely bring in Nova and Richmond for football. That would be a heck of an all-sport league and change the way football is viewed by recruits.

However, the Patriot WON'T wake up, it will be stuck in its ways...W&M will stay in the CAA (slight chance they go to the SoCon...but highly doubtful), and the status quo will remain.


Woke would be the operative word!

[DFW HOYA]

Woke would be the operative word!

You don't know the Patriot League well. "Sleepy" would be the operative word.

[KPSUL]

Different take for sure.

Let's play.



CAA then has 9 football members and disbands CAA Football.

UNH, Maine, URI, Richmond and Villanova are jettisoned.



I know you're just wildly speculating, But why would the CAA jettison its arguably best remaining 4 football programs over the past decade now that JMU left?

[WestCoastAggie]

Interesting note: UNH is A&T's aspirational peer.

https://www.ncat.edu/provost/ospie/ncat-peer-list.php

[WestCoastAggie]

If the Patriot woke up, it could be an incredibly competitive league. It should target William & Mary for all sports. That would likely bring in Nova and Richmond for football. That would be a heck of an all-sport league and change the way football is viewed by recruits.

However, the Patriot WON'T wake up, it will be stuck in its ways...W&M will stay in the CAA (slight chance they go to the SoCon...but highly doubtful), and the status quo will remain.

Now why would the PL stop being cannon fodder for the Ivy? PL presidents like their positioning next to the Ivy and don't want to give that up athletically.

[Southsider]

Now why would the PL stop being cannon fodder for the Ivy? PL presidents like their positioning next to the Ivy and don't want to give that up athletically.

Right you are. They wouldn't get the invite to the cocktail party on weekends.

[WestCoastAggie]

It looks like this chatter is warming up. I'll know if it's really real if anything related to conference affiliation ends up on our BOT Agenda that's scheduled for 02/18/2022.

[Professor]

That's what i'm waiting on the report from our AD

[KPSUL]

Interesting note: UNH is A&T's aspirational peer.

https://www.ncat.edu/provost/ospie/ncat-peer-list.php

Glad to know we are in some way aspirational since our football team's performance has become less aspirational over the past 3 seasons.

[WestCoastAggie]

Glad to know we are in some way aspirational since our football team's performance has become less aspirational over the past 3 seasons.

UNH is a Carnegie an R1 institution (Doctoral Universities: Very High Research Activity), one of 5 in the CAA. That's company Chancellor Martin and NC A&T wants to be associated with in his quest to obtain the same status and research dollars. So this is about way more than just football for us Aggies.

Maine is also a peer institution for us.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/college/college-of-charleston-applauds-caa-expansion-hopes-for-more/

[mainejeff]

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/college/college-of-charleston-applauds-caa-expansion-hopes-for-more/

What did it say?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the Patriot woke up, it could be an incredibly competitive league. It should target William & Mary for all sports. That would likely bring in Nova and Richmond for football. That would be a heck of an all-sport league and change the way football is viewed by recruits.

However, the Patriot WON'T wake up, it will be stuck in its ways...W&M will stay in the CAA (slight chance they go to the SoCon...but highly doubtful), and the status quo will remain.

You have perfectly and succinctly summarized about ten years of posts from Patriot League football fans.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UNH is a Carnegie an R1 institution (Doctoral Universities: Very High Research Activity), one of 5 in the CAA. That's company Chancellor Martin and NC A&T wants to be associated with in his quest to obtain the same status and research dollars. So this is about way more than just football for us Aggies.

Maine is also a peer institution for us.

It should also be someone Patriot League schools should want to be associated with, too.

[WestCoastAggie]

What did it say?

👀


“It’s certainly a great start in the right direction, a good proactive start in the right direction,” he said. “It will help us grow and be more competitive athletically ... And another goal in this process for the league is to have more ease of travel, to eliminate some of the flights teams have to take, and this expansion will allow for that.

“This move certainly helps in the North. It doesn’t necessarily help geographically for us in the South. But it’s step one in what we think will be a multiple-phase project.”

[solohawks]

Queens University is also looking to vote to move to D1.

They were rumored to be in talks with the CAA this past fall.

They would fit the needs of the CAA in a #14 school and as a non football school, A&T and Queens would put the CAA at 14 in both football and basketball.

[KPSUL]

Queens University is also looking to vote to move to D1.

They were rumored to be in talks with the CAA this past fall.

They would fit the needs of the CAA in a #14 school and as a non football school, A&T and Queens would put the CAA at 14 in both football and basketball.

Queen's University; isn't that in London?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Queens University is also looking to vote to move to D1.

They were rumored to be in talks with the CAA this past fall.

They would fit the needs of the CAA in a #14 school and as a non football school, A&T and Queens would put the CAA at 14 in both football and basketball.

You'd have a better chance of both winning the lotto and getting zapped by lightning tomorrow than Queens University getting an invite to the CAA anytime in the next 5 years.

[Sitting Bull]

You'd have a better chance of both winning the lotto and getting zapped by lightning tomorrow than Queens University getting an invite to the CAA anytime in the next 5 years.

+1. If UNCW thinks Queens would be a worthy add to the CAA at this point, they should join them in the Big South. What a joke.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It should also be someone Patriot League schools should want to be associated with, too.

A "welcoming" Patriot League that brings in some variation of Delaware, Maine, UNH, W&M, Villanova and/or Richmond would be one that could kick butt athletically; relatively speaking. But that would require some forward thinking and an enhanced commitment to athletic success. Unfortunately, such an endeavor involves the swallowing of the self-perpetuated "Patriot League Pride" that endlessly cycles through the league's members. Things like this is why I question some of these institution's lathering themselves in DEI, but I digress.

The PL should be a conference that applies the fundamental principles of the "student-athlete", which the Ivies so proudly flaunt, while having enough situational awareness to provide a practical platform for their the programs to succeed on a national level. Be more of the "Big 10 of FCS" football and A10 in basketball/Olympic sports....

[NY Crusader 2010]

A "welcoming" Patriot League that brings in some variation of Delaware, Maine, UNH, W&M, Villanova and/or Richmond would be one that could kick butt athletically; relatively speaking. But that would require some forward thinking and an enhanced commitment to athletic success. Unfortunately, such an endeavor involves the swallowing of the self-perpetuated "Patriot League Pride" that endlessly cycles through the league's members. Things like this is why I question some of these institution's lathering themselves in DEI, but I digress.

The PL should be a conference that applies the fundamental principles of the "student-athlete", which the Ivies so proudly flaunt, while having enough situational awareness to provide a practical platform for their the programs to succeed on a national level. Be more of the "Big 10 of FCS" football and A10 in basketball/Olympic sports....

The Patriot League is a hand-operated effort competing amongst the Division I sports machine. UNH, Delaware, W&M, Richmond and Villanova in the PL is beyond a pipe dream. But the league could have become a better overall sports conference if ten years ago we'd brought in Monmouth and either Bryant or Sacred Heart. Or in today's world, if we'd considered Merrimack. And guess what? The academic reputations of the existing schools would still be fine. The issue with the Patriot League is that it's not an "aspirational league" for anyone. Nobody up-and-coming wants to join anymore, if they ever did. And even if they did amidst all the AI hoopla, the league wouldn't invite them. But sure let's keep talking about Richmond and Villanova.

[aceinthehole]

The Patriot League is a hand-operated effort competing amongst the Division I sports machine. UNH, Delaware, W&M, Richmond and Villanova in the PL is beyond a pipe dream. But the league could have become a better overall sports conference if ten years ago we'd brought in Monmouth and either Bryant or Sacred Heart. Or in today's world, if we'd considered Merrimack. And guess what? The academic reputations of the existing schools would still be fine. The issue with the Patriot League is that it's not an "aspirational league" for anyone. Nobody up-and-coming wants to join anymore, if they ever did. And even if they did amidst all the AI hoopla, the league wouldn't invite them. But sure let's keep talking about Richmond and Villanova.

Not sure that is true.

American left the CAA for the Patriot ... Loyola left the MAAC for the Patriot ... Boston University left America East for the Patriot. These schools certainly saw the Patriot as a "step up" in affiliation. Even today, many Fairfield fans would prefer the Patriot over the CAA. Fordham is the only PL team to ever leave and I j umping to the A-10 was the right move at the time, even if they haven't been able to make it work out.

Those NEC schools you mentioned (Monmouth, Bryant, Sacred Heart, Merrimack) might do fine athletically, but do not meet that "Ivy lite" academic pedigree. They were never an option, even if you had a more open-minded PL.

What I do find interesting, is that Hofstra wanted into the Patriot from the beginning. When Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell left the East Coast Conference, Hofstra was so desperate to follow, but was denied. In retrospect, I think that may have been a missed opportunity.

The Patriot has issues for sure, but it is generally in much better shape relative to other mid-majors in the region.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The school I can not get a read on in terms of desired institutional placement is Towson. Even in the CAA they seem "different" despite the fact JMU in many ways is/was a peer school. Maybe because "way back when", despite its association with wealthier/more prominent schools, it felt more like a PSAC school than JMU, ODU, Youngstown State, Binghamton? What made it even more "odd" is the fact the PL extended Towson an olive branch in the from a football membership. Granted, it benefited both parties; PL auto-bid qualifications and a platform for Towson to build their program against familiar foes. With this said, for whatever reason, a stigma remains imo despite the school becoming a nice compliment to the University of Maryland rather than a distant cousin like Frostburg State.

If something were to happen to the CAA or there's some seismic shift that upsets conference alignment in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic I wonder who Towson latches on to?

[DFW HOYA]

Not sure that is true.

American left the CAA for the Patriot ... Loyola left the MAAC for the Patriot ... Boston University left America East for the Patriot. These schools certainly saw the Patriot as a "step up" in affiliation. Even today, many Fairfield fans would prefer the Patriot over the CAA. Fordham is the only PL team to ever leave and I j umping to the A-10 was the right move at the time, even if they haven't been able to make it work out.

There was an off-hand remark many years ago that the PL "is where programs go to die." American struggled in the CAA, Loyola had only one basketball title in the MAAC, and BU wanted a soft landing for teams other than hockey. None have elevated themselves in the Patriot. The PL was a safe harbor in the face of having to a) deal with higher budgets at football schools or 2) avoid an increase spending to maintain competitiveness in those other conferences.

Frankly, if the PL will let them compete without a football commitment, it's an easy place to be.


The school I can not get a read on in terms of desired institutional placement is Towson. Even in the CAA they seem "different" despite the fact JMU in many ways is/was a peer school. Maybe because "way back when", despite its association with wealthier/more prominent schools, it felt more like a PSAC school than JMU, ODU, Youngstown State, Binghamton? What made it even more "odd" is the fact the PL extended Towson an olive branch in the from a football membership. Granted, it benefited both parties; PL auto-bid qualifications and a platform for Towson to build their program against familiar foes. With this said, for whatever reason, a stigma remains imo despite the school becoming a nice compliment to the University of Maryland rather than a distant cousin like Frostburg State.

There are five public universities in the Baltimore area: Towson, UMBC, Morgan State, Coppin State, and U. Baltimore. I never understood why they needed all of them.

[WestCoastAggie]

Queens University is also looking to vote to move to D1.

They were rumored to be in talks with the CAA this past fall.

They would fit the needs of the CAA in a #14 school and as a non football school, A&T and Queens would put the CAA at 14 in both football and basketball.

I’d rather see A&T, High Point, and/or UNCG join than us and Queens.

[NY Crusader 2010]

There was an off-hand remark many years ago that the PL "is where programs go to die." American struggled in the CAA, Loyola had only one basketball title in the MAAC, and BU wanted a soft landing for teams other than hockey. None have elevated themselves in the Patriot. The PL was a safe harbor in the face of having to a) deal with higher budgets at football schools or 2) avoid an increase spending to maintain competitiveness in those other conferences.

Frankly, if the PL will let them compete without a football commitment, it's an easy place to be.



There are five public universities in the Baltimore area: Towson, UMBC, Morgan State, Coppin State, and U. Baltimore. I never understood why they needed all of them.

You more or less nailed it in the above post. With regards to BU, they are a decent low-major basketball program, they were regularly competitive in the America East, and the PL was certainly a "soft" landing spot for them. The Patriot League is for the most part an upgrade for minor and Olympic sports over the America East, and BU is typically strong across the board in these sports.

The way I view BU being in the Patriot League => 98% of their athletic focus from a marketing and fan support prospective is funneled into ice hockey, which competes in Hockey East. Guarantee >40% of all BU season ticket holders for Men's Hockey probably would say "What's that?" if you mentioned the Patriot League.

[UNHWildcat18]

You more or less nailed it in the above post. With regards to BU, they are a decent low-major basketball program, they were regularly competitive in the America East, and the PL was certainly a "soft" landing spot for them. The Patriot League is for the most part an upgrade for minor and Olympic sports over the America East, and BU is typically strong across the board in these sports.

The way I view BU being in the Patriot League => 98% of their athletic focus from a marketing and fan support prospective is funneled into ice hockey, which competes in Hockey East. Guarantee >40% of all BU season ticket holders for Men's Hockey probably would say "What's that?" if you mentioned the Patriot League.

Don’t disagree with you there, I was in college during the swap. You could get kids I know from BU to go to sports outside of hockey due to playing HE schools… they still couldn’t care less now if BU is playing Colgate or american in basketball. I guess navy or army might be a cool draw…

[aceinthehole]

Yes, the Patriot League decisions to accept non-football schools certainly have had an impact (which is why I think the denial of Hofstra was the real lost opportunity), but I guess this is all perspective. Again, the PL has added members from other regional conferences (CAA, MAAC, AE); whereas the AE and the NEC are primarily built upon D-II call-ups.

Towson is interesting, like Hofstra, was a former ECC program. Amazing how big Towson and JMU have both grown, as in the 1970s-80s, these school were peers of CCSU. As non-research State universities these schools are always looked down upon by many, but it is amazing white SIZE does to budgets and perceptions. Bigger is better and allows them to compete and even dominate over smaller, academically stronger schools.

Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell were the ones who decided to jettison Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Rider and Towson for BASKETBALL to join Holy Cross and Colgate to create a football-centric conference at the behest of the Ivy League.

IMO - the issue of the Patriot begins with their founding - they are puppets of the Ivy League. Now, the league is boxed in by those original parameters (football, academic pedigree, and non-scholly). Obviously, the scholarship issued has changed over the years, but it hav never been an athletic-first model, whereas that is exactly what the Big East, A-10, and other leagues were based on.

[aceinthehole]

The school I can not get a read on in terms of desired institutional placement is Towson. Even in the CAA they seem "different" despite the fact JMU in many ways is/was a peer school. Maybe because "way back when", despite its association with wealthier/more prominent schools, it felt more like a PSAC school than JMU, ODU, Youngstown State, Binghamton? What made it even more "odd" is the fact the PL extended Towson an olive branch in the from a football membership. Granted, it benefited both parties; PL auto-bid qualifications and a platform for Towson to build their program against familiar foes. With this said, for whatever reason, a stigma remains imo despite the school becoming a nice compliment to the University of Maryland rather than a distant cousin like Frostburg State.

If something were to happen to the CAA or there's some seismic shift that upsets conference alignment in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic I wonder who Towson latches on to?

There are just 2 public (non-HBCU) Master's Universities: Large (Carnegie M1) in Division I located in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic:

1. Central Connecticut
2. Towson

Even JMU is now classified as "Doctoral University: High Research"

Most of these D-I public non-research universities are located in other parts of the country outside of the the private school dominated Northeast region - think Eastern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Murray State, Southeastern Louisiana, etc. These schools have homes in the OVC, MVC, and Southland. In the Northeast, all these type of schools schools are D-II or D-III.

[Dane96]

There was an off-hand remark many years ago that the PL "is where programs go to die." American struggled in the CAA, Loyola had only one basketball title in the MAAC, and BU wanted a soft landing for teams other than hockey. None have elevated themselves in the Patriot. The PL was a safe harbor in the face of having to a) deal with higher budgets at football schools or 2) avoid an increase spending to maintain competitiveness in those other conferences.

Frankly, if the PL will let them compete without a football commitment, it's an easy place to be.

There are five public universities in the Baltimore area: Towson, UMBC, Morgan State, Coppin State, and U. Baltimore. I never understood why they needed all of them.

Completely disagree about BU, and I have insight into that decision. They wanted out, full stop, from the America East due to wanting to chase academic rankings. They felt that the PL schools were their academic peers. They invested HEAVILY both academically and athletically to make the move. Athletically, this was planned for years because they were the main party that torpedoed America East football. America East schools had convinced Hockey East to come under the AE banner, with Boston College the strongest proponent. At the time, AE Football would have started with UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, SBU, UMASS, Hofstra, and NU. With that, the rest of the CAA Football members would have come on board, with UMASS on their way out.

Due to the fact that BU wanted out, they torpedoed the deal at the last minute when they were called out for sniffing around the PL. In the end, BU realized that if the AE supported Hockey East (forget about AE football for a moment), they would be hard pressed to then leave to go to the league they wanted, which was the PL (for academics)>

I would need to go find them however, I have power points and meeting minutes from AD's on this entire subject...somewhere on my backup server.

- - - Updated - - -


You more or less nailed it in the above post. With regards to BU, they are a decent low-major basketball program, they were regularly competitive in the America East, and the PL was certainly a "soft" landing spot for them. The Patriot League is for the most part an upgrade for minor and Olympic sports over the America East, and BU is typically strong across the board in these sports.

The way I view BU being in the Patriot League => 98% of their athletic focus from a marketing and fan support prospective is funneled into ice hockey, which competes in Hockey East. Guarantee >40% of all BU season ticket holders for Men's Hockey probably would say "What's that?" if you mentioned the Patriot League.

A little more accurate than DFW's post. However, my post above is 99.99% accurate as it relates to BU. At one point of this whole AE takeover of Hockey East and CAA football, the AD's and President's strongly discussed making a play for Holy Cross for a variety of reasons. They even sniffed around...however there wasn't much to sniff as HC mostly said, "nah".

[solohawks]

Completely disagree about BU, and I have insight into that decision. They wanted out, full stop, from the America East due to wanting to chase academic rankings. They felt that the PL schools were their academic peers. They invested HEAVILY both academically and athletically to make the move. Athletically, this was planned for years because they were the main party that torpedoed America East football. America East schools had convinced Hockey East to come under the AE banner, with Boston College the strongest proponent. At the time, AE Football would have started with UNH, Maine, URI, Albany, SBU, UMASS, Hofstra, and NU. With that, the rest of the CAA Football members would have come on board, with UMASS on their way out.

Due to the fact that BU wanted out, they torpedoed the deal at the last minute when they were called out for sniffing around the PL. In the end, BU realized that if the AE supported Hockey East (forget about AE football for a moment), they would be hard pressed to then leave to go to the league they wanted, which was the PL (for academics)>

I would need to go find them however, I have power points and meeting minutes from AD's on this entire subject...somewhere on my backup server.

- - - Updated - - -



A little more accurate than DFW's post. However, my post above is 99.99% accurate as it relates to BU. At one point of this whole AE takeover of Hockey East and CAA football, the AD's and President's strongly discussed making a play for Holy Cross for a variety of reasons. They even sniffed around...however there wasn't much to sniff as HC mostly said, "nah".


The AEast's plans got screwed by BU similiarly to how the CAA's plans got screwed by Richmond.

If you could ever find those documents I'd be very interested in seeing them

[WestCoastAggie]

Yes, the Patriot League decisions to accept non-football schools certainly have had an impact (which is why I think the denial of Hofstra was the real lost opportunity), but I guess this is all perspective. Again, the PL has added members from other regional conferences (CAA, MAAC, AE); whereas the AE and the NEC are primarily built upon D-II call-ups.

Towson is interesting, like Hofstra, was a former ECC program. Amazing how big Towson and JMU have both grown, as in the 1970s-80s, these school were peers of CCSU. As non-research State universities these schools are always looked down upon by many, but it is amazing white SIZE does to budgets and perceptions. Bigger is better and allows them to compete and even dominate over smaller, academically stronger schools.

Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell were the ones who decided to jettison Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Rider and Towson for BASKETBALL to join Holy Cross and Colgate to create a football-centric conference at the behest of the Ivy League.

IMO - the issue of the Patriot begins with their founding - they are puppets of the Ivy League. Now, the league is boxed in by those original parameters (football, academic pedigree, and non-scholly). Obviously, the scholarship issued has changed over the years, but it hav never been an athletic-first model, whereas that is exactly what the Big East, A-10, and other leagues were based on.

The monies and programs that went into Towson should've gone into Bowie, Coppin, Morgan and UMES. However, that's a story for a different day. Well, thread.

[Sitting Bull]

I could be wrong on this but I recall when the CAA was working to replace VCU/ODU/Mason - the Prez at W&M voiced disappointment that attempts to bring in BU and Davidson failed though the CAA was successful pulling in Charleston and Elon. So I believe there was some effort by the CAA to bring in BU, they opted to move into the PL.

Also, as I took it at the time, both American and Navy left the CAA as the league was admitting VCU, just after ODU rejoined. I don’t believe AU or Navy saw the move to the PL as an upgrade, nor did anyone else. It was obvious at the time it wasn’t, rather a better long term fit for the two of them.

[Dane96]

I could be wrong on this but I recall when the CAA was working to replace VCU/ODU/Mason - the Prez at W&M voiced disappointment that attempts to bring in BU and Davidson failed though the CAA was successful pulling in Charleston and Elon. So I believe there was some effort by the CAA to bring in BU, they opted to move into the PL.

Also, as I took it at the time, both American and Navy left the CAA as the league was admitting VCU, just after ODU rejoined. I don’t believe AU or Navy saw the move to the PL as an upgrade, nor did anyone else. It was obvious at the time it wasn’t, rather a better long term fit for the two of them.

This is correct, everything you said. In addition, BU was holding out hope for an A-10 invite (the Athletic Department preferred the A-10, the academics wanted to rub noses with the PL). A lot of this had to due with academic affiliation because of the law and medical schools, specifically the law school. The law school was in a regular up and down, elevator battle with Boston College in the rankings. Higher ups in the academic wing of BU thought that the profile of their law school (that they were dumping huge money into...or were...for a new building) would increase because of affiliation with the "Ivy light".

[DFW HOYA]

Good points above. The problem with the CAA and the Patriot is that each has lacked alignment between purpose and potential.

The CAA has gone from the ECAC-South to a wide ranging collection of schools with little in common. Are there more disparate institutions in a single conference than a lineup of Charleston, Delaware, Drexel, Elon, Hampton, Hofstra, Monmouth, Northeastern, Stony Brook, Towson, UNC-Wilmington and William & Mary?

And yes, the A-10 (A-15?) is getting there, too.

[solohawks]

Good points above. The problem with the CAA and the Patriot is that each has lacked alignment between purpose and potential.

The CAA has gone from the ECAC-South to a wide ranging collection of schools with little in common. Are there more disparate institutions in a single conference than a lineup of Charleston, Delaware, Drexel, Elon, Hampton, Hofstra, Monmouth, Northeastern, Stony Brook, Towson, UNC-Wilmington and William & Mary?

And yes, the A-10 (A-15?) is getting there, too.

That's why the CAA wants to go to 14

A northern division of Northeastern, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, and Towson makes sense and is a solid northern FCS mini conference.

similarly

A southern division of Hampton, W&M, Elon, A&T, UNCW, CoC, and one more southern non football school would make sense as well and be a solid southern FCS mini conference.

For non basketball sports, the two halves would have little to no interaction with each other outside of neutral site championships.

[KPSUL]

A "welcoming" Patriot League that brings in some variation of Delaware, Maine, UNH, W&M, Villanova and/or Richmond would be one that could kick butt athletically; relatively speaking. But that would require some forward thinking and an enhanced commitment to athletic success. Unfortunately, such an endeavor involves the swallowing of the self-perpetuated "Patriot League Pride" that endlessly cycles through the league's members. Things like this is why I question some of these institution's lathering themselves in DEI, but I digress.

The PL should be a conference that applies the fundamental principles of the "student-athlete", which the Ivies so proudly flaunt, while having enough situational awareness to provide a practical platform for their the programs to succeed on a national level. Be more of the "Big 10 of FCS" football and A10 in basketball/Olympic sports....

Forget about the southern teams (DE is south, Nova probably wouldn't want to) and Include UVM as a non-football member and you'd have a very solid conference. I step up for all in Soccer, Basketball for the current Atlantic East teams and hockey for the current Patriot League teams. A win for all in football in terms of travel and natural regional rivalry.

[WestCoastAggie]

That's why the CAA wants to go to 14

A northern division of Northeastern, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, and Towson makes sense and is a solid northern FCS mini conference.

similarly

A southern division of Hampton, W&M, Elon, A&T, UNCW, CoC, and one more southern non football school would make sense as well and be a solid southern FCS mini conference.

For non basketball sports, the two halves would have little to no interaction with each other outside of neutral site championships.

Campbell, High Point, and/or UNCG would fit the bill.

[Sitting Bull]

Good points above. The problem with the CAA and the Patriot is that each has lacked alignment between purpose and potential.

The CAA has gone from the ECAC-South to a wide ranging collection of schools with little in common. Are there more disparate institutions in a single conference than a lineup of Charleston, Delaware, Drexel, Elon, Hampton, Hofstra, Monmouth, Northeastern, Stony Brook, Towson, UNC-Wilmington and William & Mary?

And yes, the A-10 (A-15?) is getting there, too.

I don’t really buy into that. I think the PL definitely has a very common look and position among their members. I’ve heard the ex W&M prez quote when asked about a potential shift into the PL that the schools looked a lot more like each other than W&M looked like them.

On the CAA, I think the league minus New England football affiliates has found a very solid mid Atlantic framework and position, bolstered by the new additions. Being a member poster, I don’t feel alienated from any of the members. They all have decent academic chops and similar approaches to athletics. For W&M; UR, Delaware and Villanova are all traditional rivals. I can see Elon and Charleston growing in that respect and the balance northward are all respected institutions in good locations for alumni and student interest.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. BU left America East because they had very little to prove in America East (they basically won their Commissioner's cup every year) and did want to align themselves with the "Ivy-adjacent" Patriot League. Of course there is no Patriot League hockey, so they could basically operate there as before, and they could compete in all sports in a PL with a lot of sports. Plus - and everyone seems to forget this - the Patriot League is a lacrosse high-major. Navy and Loyola are genuine title contenders yearly, and BU wanted to be in that mix as well. Also, the Patriot League doesn't insist the Lacrosse schools play Patriot League football. That's why the league is as it is now.

2. American was a reach when they joined - I believe the President that brought the Eagles to the Patriot League had to resign after using the University as his personal checkbook. Their academics have improved but I'd agree with those that called them a "soft landing spot" for them after the CAA outgrew them. And again, the Patriot League didn't insist on football for membership. That's why the league is as it is now.

3. What the Patriot League has on the CAA and America East is a unified academic purpose. Whether you love or hate the AI, there isn't any question that the schools of the Patriot League value academics and if athletics means abandoning academics entirely, they (probably along with the Ivies) will leave, because they have a common academic mission in regards to sports. Having billion-dollar athletic programs aren't part of the agenda.

America East doesn't really know what it wants to be, because the biggest state flagships in New England are either chasing FBS (UConn), have gone all-in on A-10 hoops (URI) or both (UMass), and it's just left with "the rest" who all have different aspirations. Vermont wants to be like Gonzaga. UNH and UMaine it seems to me want to return to the days of a 63 scholarship Yankee Conference, and Albany and SBU are clearly looking around for other solutions.

The CAA doesn't, either. Even with the new additions it's an uneasy alliance of schools that seem to have little that unite them academically. Top Eastern FCS football (which doesn't make money) and top mid-major hoops (but second banana to the A-10) seems to be the only philosophy that unites all the schools. UNC-Wilmington, Stony Brook, Delaware, Hampton, Monmouth - what really unites them academically? Not much. And they're really spread out. It's an expensive proposition, with not that much prospect of conference riches unless, say, Elon makes it to the Final Four.

All three conferences have their problems - it's not to say one is in a better place than the others. They've all got issues, and the NEC has another set of issues. The problems are not technically football-related. It's that basketball is driving conferences and structures, and football, which thrives in a certain set of circumstances, is told to make do. The one common theme to every conference move discussed on this thread is that it's all about something other than football.

[Dane96]

1. BU left America East because they had very little to prove in America East (they basically won their Commissioner's cup every year) and did want to align themselves with the "Ivy-adjacent" Patriot League. Of course there is no Patriot League hockey, so they could basically operate there as before, and they could compete in all sports in a PL with a lot of sports. Plus - and everyone seems to forget this - the Patriot League is a lacrosse high-major. Navy and Loyola are genuine title contenders yearly, and BU wanted to be in that mix as well. Also, the Patriot League doesn't insist the Lacrosse schools play Patriot League football. That's why the league is as it is now.

2. American was a reach when they joined - I believe the President that brought the Eagles to the Patriot League had to resign after using the University as his personal checkbook. Their academics have improved but I'd agree with those that called them a "soft landing spot" for them after the CAA outgrew them. And again, the Patriot League didn't insist on football for membership. That's why the league is as it is now.

3. What the Patriot League has on the CAA and America East is a unified academic purpose. Whether you love or hate the AI, there isn't any question that the schools of the Patriot League value academics and if athletics means abandoning academics entirely, they (probably along with the Ivies) will leave, because they have a common academic mission in regards to sports. Having billion-dollar athletic programs aren't part of the agenda.

America East doesn't really know what it wants to be, because the biggest state flagships in New England are either chasing FBS (UConn), have gone all-in on A-10 hoops (URI) or both (UMass), and it's just left with "the rest" who all have different aspirations. Vermont wants to be like Gonzaga. UNH and UMaine it seems to me want to return to the days of a 63 scholarship Yankee Conference, and Albany and SBU are clearly looking around for other solutions.

The CAA doesn't, either. Even with the new additions it's an uneasy alliance of schools that seem to have little that unite them academically. Top Eastern FCS football (which doesn't make money) and top mid-major hoops (but second banana to the A-10) seems to be the only philosophy that unites all the schools. UNC-Wilmington, Stony Brook, Delaware, Hampton, Monmouth - what really unites them academically? Not much. And they're really spread out. It's an expensive proposition, with not that much prospect of conference riches unless, say, Elon makes it to the Final Four.

All three conferences have their problems - it's not to say one is in a better place than the others. They've all got issues, and the NEC has another set of issues. The problems are not technically football-related. It's that basketball is driving conferences and structures, and football, which thrives in a certain set of circumstances, is told to make do. The one common theme to every conference move discussed on this thread is that it's all about something other than football.


This, 100%

[Sitting Bull]

1. BU left America East because they had very little to prove in America East (they basically won their Commissioner's cup every year) and did want to align themselves with the "Ivy-adjacent" Patriot League. Of course there is no Patriot League hockey, so they could basically operate there as before, and they could compete in all sports in a PL with a lot of sports. Plus - and everyone seems to forget this - the Patriot League is a lacrosse high-major. Navy and Loyola are genuine title contenders yearly, and BU wanted to be in that mix as well. Also, the Patriot League doesn't insist the Lacrosse schools play Patriot League football. That's why the league is as it is now.

2. American was a reach when they joined - I believe the President that brought the Eagles to the Patriot League had to resign after using the University as his personal checkbook. Their academics have improved but I'd agree with those that called them a "soft landing spot" for them after the CAA outgrew them. And again, the Patriot League didn't insist on football for membership. That's why the league is as it is now.

3. What the Patriot League has on the CAA and America East is a unified academic purpose. Whether you love or hate the AI, there isn't any question that the schools of the Patriot League value academics and if athletics means abandoning academics entirely, they (probably along with the Ivies) will leave, because they have a common academic mission in regards to sports. Having billion-dollar athletic programs aren't part of the agenda.

America East doesn't really know what it wants to be, because the biggest state flagships in New England are either chasing FBS (UConn), have gone all-in on A-10 hoops (URI) or both (UMass), and it's just left with "the rest" who all have different aspirations. Vermont wants to be like Gonzaga. UNH and UMaine it seems to me want to return to the days of a 63 scholarship Yankee Conference, and Albany and SBU are clearly looking around for other solutions.

The CAA doesn't, either. Even with the new additions it's an uneasy alliance of schools that seem to have little that unite them academically. Top Eastern FCS football (which doesn't make money) and top mid-major hoops (but second banana to the A-10) seems to be the only philosophy that unites all the schools. UNC-Wilmington, Stony Brook, Delaware, Hampton, Monmouth - what really unites them academically? Not much. And they're really spread out. It's an expensive proposition, with not that much prospect of conference riches unless, say, Elon makes it to the Final Four.

All three conferences have their problems - it's not to say one is in a better place than the others. They've all got issues, and the NEC has another set of issues. The problems are not technically football-related. It's that basketball is driving conferences and structures, and football, which thrives in a certain set of circumstances, is told to make do. The one common theme to every conference move discussed on this thread is that it's all about something other than football.

I think you sell the CAA short. The fact that there are still multiple schools, likely 20 or more and within the general geographic confines of the mid Atlantic, that would join the CAA if asked. Some even consider it a goal (Monmouth, Hampton, etc).

That tells me that quite a few see something aspirational about being in the CAA, and it’s not just solid football. I believe they see academics and a commitment to athletics, including their facilities, as a piece of the structure, the common goal.

Alternatively, I don’t think you will find many schools out there pining to get into the AE or Patriot. If there are, it’s a pretty short list.

[mainejeff]

I think you sell the CAA short. The fact that there are still multiple schools, likely 20 or more and within the general geographic confines of the mid Atlantic, that would join the CAA if asked. Some even consider it a goal (Monmouth, Hampton, etc).

That tells me that quite a few see something aspirational about being in the CAA, and it’s not just solid football. I believe they see academics and a commitment to athletics, including their facilities, as a piece of the structure, the common goal.

Alternatively, I don’t think you will find many schools out there pining to get into the AE or Patriot. If there are, it’s a pretty short list.

I think that it is more like…..many schools want to rub shoulders with Delaware and William & Mary. There would be no one aspiring to a CAA that didn’t include those 2 schools.

[Sitting Bull]

I think that it is more like…..many schools want to rub shoulders with Delaware and William & Mary. There would be no one aspiring to a CAA that didn’t include those 2 schools.

That may be an aspect of it and I think you can see that with Towson, Elon, Charleston and now Stony Brook. But the point is UD and W&M have mutual interests: merging academics with a more aggressive approach on mid-major athletics (more aggressive than Ivy and PL schools). That also includes facilities and investment. Those that have a similar goal fit in. It’s also the point-of-difference with the PL and AE.

So I agree on the point, W&M and U Delaware have a lot in common. The appeal to other and prospective members is in part driven by aspiring for same. That is not an uneasy confederation of schools. It’s a league of schools with a common thread led by these two.

[WestCoastAggie]

That may be an aspect of it and I think you can see that with Towson, Elon, Charleston and now Stony Brook. But the point is UD and W&M have mutual interests: merging academics with a more aggressive approach on mid-major athletics (more aggressive than Ivy and PL schools). That also includes facilities and investment. Those that have a similar goal fit in. It’s also the point-of-difference with the PL and AE.

So I agree on the point, W&M and U Delaware have a lot in common. The appeal to other and prospective members is in part driven by aspiring for same. That is not an uneasy confederation of schools. It’s a league of schools with a common thread led by these two.

Agreed. From the perspective I'm from, it's a very aspirational status and model that schools like A&T and Hampton are striving towards. Especially A&T in its quest to raise its academic profile and status in North Carolina and nationally. It's why we almost quadrupled our combined endowments since 2012 and have a goal in place for R1 research status by 2030 at the latest.

That academic status and company is why we have schools from Maine to South Carolina as members and other that would seek to join your schools. The ultimate question is whether or not that's enough?

[WestCoastAggie]

I think that it is more like…..many schools want to rub shoulders with Delaware and William & Mary. There would be no one aspiring to a CAA that didn’t include those 2 schools.

Don't sell schools like Maine and New Hampshire short. Both are state flagships that are major research and economic drivers in their states. Their membership with CAAFB is also part of that attraction.

Don't for a second think that the PL would't trip over themselves to get that invite to you all if you all ever seek it, even with the rules in place that stifle growth in athletics (specifically football).

[mainejeff]

That may be an aspect of it and I think you can see that with Towson, Elon, Charleston and now Stony Brook. But the point is UD and W&M have mutual interests: merging academics with a more aggressive approach on mid-major athletics (more aggressive than Ivy and PL schools). That also includes facilities and investment. Those that have a similar goal fit in. It’s also the point-of-difference with the PL and AE.

So I agree on the point, W&M and U Delaware have a lot in common. The appeal to other and prospective members is in part driven by aspiring for same. That is not an uneasy confederation of schools. It’s a league of schools with a common thread led by these two.

Maine is investing $110 million in their athletic facilities....a big number even by Delaware and William & Mary standards. They recently achieved R1 status as well....an academic and research classification that puts it in line with the best schools in the CAA. This should serve them well in America East and keep them competitive with CAA schools in that regard.

[caribbeanhen]

Maine is investing $110 million in their athletic facilities....a big number even by Delaware and William & Mary standards. They recently achieved R1 status as well....an academic and research classification that puts it in line with the best schools in the CAA. This should serve them well in America East and keep them competitive with CAA schools in that regard.

Maybe Maine should pay the coaching staff now

[mainejeff]

Don't sell schools like Maine and New Hampshire short. Both are state flagships that are major research and economic drivers in their states. Their membership with CAAFB is also part of that attraction.

Don't for a second that the PL would't trip over themselves to get that invite to you all if you all ever seek it, even with the rules in place that stifle growth in athletics (specifically football).

The Patriot will never invite Maine. There will always be a stigma associated with Maine for whatever reason(s). They will never be good enough for the elitists. And they are easy for the East Coast mid-major bullies to pick on due to geography and weather (UMaine is the only school in the Northeast that has winter dontcha know?!). Someday when they build interstates, automobiles, airplanes and invent the internet....maybe Orono will be connected to the rest of the world.

[mainejeff]

Maybe Maine should pay the coaching staff now

Well they raised the new head football coaches salary by $95K per year....it's a start.

Maybe Delaware should spend some of that dusty DuPont money on athletics.....or make better hires. Most of your major sports performances in the last decade have been abysmal.

[caribbeanhen]

Well they raised the new head football coaches salary by $95K per year....it's a start.

Maybe Delaware should spend some of that dusty DuPont money on athletics.....or make better hires. Most of your major sports performances in the last decade have been abysmal.

I admit I don’t know your new coaches name either

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think that it is more like…..many schools want to rub shoulders with Delaware and William & Mary. There would be no one aspiring to a CAA that didn’t include those 2 schools.

Now picture a proactive Patriot League that has done what it takes to bring Delaware and William and Mary into the league (which implicitly means abandoning many of the self-imposed athletic restrictions). That's why PL fans are so frustrated.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patriot will never invite Maine. There will always be a stigma associated with Maine for whatever reason(s). They will never be good enough for the elitists. And they are easy for the East Coast mid-major bullies to pick on due to geography and weather (UMaine is the only school in the Northeast that has winter dontcha know?!). Someday when they build interstates, automobiles, airplanes and invent the internet....maybe Orono will be connected to the rest of the world.

That sentence was was worth the rep points.

[mainejeff]

I admit I don’t know your new coaches name either

Do you really think that you are funny? YAWN

[aceinthehole]

Now picture a proactive Patriot League that has done what it takes to bring Delaware and William and Mary into the league (which implicitly means abandoning many of the self-imposed athletic restrictions). That's why PL fans are so frustrated.


Can we stop with the farce that the Patriot League even wants Delaware - or vice versa. The competitive rules of the PL are the core of their existence and they are simply not willing to compromise them.

From 1958-1990, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, shared a BASKETBALL conference with Delaware (as well as programs like Temple, Rutgers, St. Joseph's, Drexel, etc); and during this period LU-UD played each other in football annually from 1950-87. They chose to go their separate ways by the 1990s and I'm sure both side can justify the reasoning, but let's not pretend the PL has some inherent "draw" for a Delaware or William & Mary, even if the PL compromised the principles of their founding as a conference based on Ivy League "model" of intercollegiate athletics.

[caribbeanhen]

Do you really think that you are funny? YAWN

not as funny as you.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Can we stop with the farce that the Patriot League even wants Delaware - or vice versa. The competitive rules of the PL are the core of their existence and they are simply not willing to compromise them.

From 1958-1990, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, shared a BASKETBALL conference with Delaware (as well as programs like Temple, Rutgers, St. Joseph's, Drexel, etc); and during this period LU-UD played each other in football annually from 1950-87. They chose to go their separate ways by the 1990s and I'm sure both side can justify the reasoning, but let's not pretend the PL has some inherent "draw" for a Delaware or William & Mary, even if the PL compromised the principles of their founding as a conference based on Ivy League "model" of intercollegiate athletics.

To be absolutely clear, if Delaware approached the PL and asked to join, it would be a done deal that afternoon. They fit institutionally much better than, say, American does or Towson did. But the PL never tried to attract a very strong academic state institution that is nearby and aligns very well academically, nor was Delaware interested, because the PL wasn't in alignment athletically. What I'm saying is that the league lacked (lacks) the creativity and audacity to even try.

Lehigh and Delaware had a great Rivalry going in both D-II football in the 60s and 70s and to a lesser extent in the ECC in other sports. The ECC had a lot of reasons why it broke apart.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Can we stop with the farce that the Patriot League even wants Delaware - or vice versa. The competitive rules of the PL are the core of their existence and they are simply not willing to compromise them.

From 1958-1990, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, shared a BASKETBALL conference with Delaware (as well as programs like Temple, Rutgers, St. Joseph's, Drexel, etc); and during this period LU-UD played each other in football annually from 1950-87. They chose to go their separate ways by the 1990s and I'm sure both side can justify the reasoning, but let's not pretend the PL has some inherent "draw" for a Delaware or William & Mary, even if the PL compromised the principles of their founding as a conference based on Ivy League "model" of intercollegiate athletics.

The Patriot League overly handcuffed itself way too much in the early years. Founded in 1986 with zero athletic scholarships, no redshirts, an implicit mandate that members schedule a certain # of OOC games against the Ivy League and the Academic Index modeled after the Ivy League. On top of that, for the first 10 years we had a silly postseason ban that was promulgated by some ferkakta promise of a possible bowl game with our Ivy friends down the road, which never happened. Just in those early years, those stringent rules cost us a) having William & Mary & ultimately Fordham both in the league as all-sports members and b) possibly cost Holy Cross at least one, if not multiple shots at a I-AA national title.

Over the years, the postseason ban was dropped and scholarships came back. Too little too late perhaps. Very easily could've had a Patriot League with the following lineup today had the league not been so obsessed with being Ivy Lite way back when:

Colgate
Holy Cross
Fordham (would've stayed for all sports if basketball scholarships were restored sooner)
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
William & Mary
Delaware
Richmond (football only)
Villanova (football only
Georgetown (football only)
Monmouth

+Army, Navy and American for all other sports

[Sader87]

Holy Cross isn't going anywhere, anytime soon....but just for the completists on this issue though, HC was very briefly in the Yankee Conference (the early iteration of today's CAA in football) in the early 1970s. BU joined the same year I believe and ended up staying for awhile. It led to more football games, beyond the annual games against UMass and UConn, against URI, UNH and even Maine a couple times in the 70s and 80s.

[aceinthehole]

Also, interesting that the latest Bracketology projections has the CAA representatives at #16 in the First Four

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2022-march-madness-men-field

#10 Murray State (OVC)
#12 Iona (MAAC)
#12 Chattanooga (SoCon)
#13 Vermont (America East)
#13 South Dakota State (Summit)
#14 Wagner (NEC)
#14 Northern Iowa (MVC)
#14 Montana State (Big Sky)
#15 Yale (Ivy)
#15 Longwood (Big South)
#16 Colgate (Patriot)
---
#16 UNC Wilmington (CAA)
#16 New Orleans (Southland)
#16 Norfolk State (MEAC)
#16 Southern (SWAC)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Also, interesting that the latest Bracketology projections has the CAA representatives at #16 in the First Four

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2022-march-madness-men-field

#10 Murray State (OVC)
#12 Iona (MAAC)
#12 Chattanooga (SoCon)
#13 Vermont (America East)
#13 South Dakota State (Summit)
#14 Wagner (NEC)
#14 Northern Iowa (MVC)
#14 Montana State (Big Sky)
#15 Yale (Ivy)
#15 Longwood (Big South)
#16 Colgate (Patriot)
---
#16 UNC Wilmington (CAA)
#16 New Orleans (Southland)
#16 Norfolk State (MEAC)
#16 Southern (SWAC)

Worthy also of mention:
#12 North Texas (C-USA)
#13 Toledo (MAC)
#15 App State (Sun Belt)

Not like moving from FCS to G5 FBS is helping anyone's RPI

[KPSUL]

Can we stop with the farce that the Patriot League even wants Delaware - or vice versa. The competitive rules of the PL are the core of their existence and they are simply not willing to compromise them.

From 1958-1990, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, shared a BASKETBALL conference with Delaware (as well as programs like Temple, Rutgers, St. Joseph's, Drexel, etc); and during this period LU-UD played each other in football annually from 1950-87. They chose to go their separate ways by the 1990s and I'm sure both side can justify the reasoning, but let's not pretend the PL has some inherent "draw" for a Delaware or William & Mary, even if the PL compromised the principles of their founding as a conference based on Ivy League "model" of intercollegiate athletics.

UNH (as well as W&M} was invited to join the Patriot League 10 years ago. According to soon retiring UNH AD Marty Scarano, UNH considered the offer very seriously. I suspect that UNH would stick with the CAA even more so now, with 5 conference members within a bus ride. (ME, URI, Albany, SBU and Monmouth) If the PL was willing to accept UNH, I'm sure they would accept Delaware.

[Henny]

Well they raised the new head football coaches salary by $95K per year....it's a start.

Maybe Delaware should spend some of that dusty DuPont money on athletics.....or make better hires. Most of your major sports performances in the last decade have been abysmal.

Seriously Jeffrey?

2017 UD 31 Maine 17
2021S UD 37 Maine 0
2021F UD 34 Maine 24

[Sitting Bull]

UNH (as well as W&M} was invited to join the Patriot League 10 years ago. According to soon retiring UNH AD Marty Scarano, UNH considered the offer very seriously. I suspect that UNH would stick with the CAA even more so now, with 5 conference members within a bus ride. (ME, URI, Albany, SBU and Monmouth) If the PL was willing to accept UNH, I'm sure they would accept Delaware.

W&M was a founding member of the Colonial League (todays PL) in 1982 and pulled out before the ink dried when the league established that there would be no scholarships and no participation in the 1AA playoffs. The third stipulation that forced W&M out was the control of our OOC scheduling (Ivy League requirements) which left little room for in-state rivalries and other OOC games of interest.

If the PL did approach W&M ten years ago, I can assure you it was a short conversation.

[Professor]

That's why the CAA wants to go to 14

A northern division of Northeastern, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Hofstra, Drexel, Delaware, and Towson makes sense and is a solid northern FCS mini conference.

similarly

A southern division of Hampton, W&M, Elon, A&T, UNCW, CoC, and one more southern non football school would make sense as well and be a solid southern FCS mini conference.

For non basketball sports, the two halves would have little to no interaction with each other outside of neutral site championships.


That Southern conference would be lovely

[mainejeff]

Seriously Jeffrey?

2017 UD 31 Maine 17
2021S UD 37 Maine 0
2021F UD 34 Maine 24

Your point Henny?

[DFW HOYA]

What I'm saying is that the league lacked (lacks) the creativity and audacity to even try.

The Patriot League won't realize the problem until there are five schools returning and someone reminds them of the autobid minimum.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Holy Cross isn't going anywhere, anytime soon....but just for the completists on this issue though, HC was very briefly in the Yankee Conference (the early iteration of today's CAA in football) in the early 1970s. BU joined the same year I believe and ended up staying for awhile. It led to more football games, beyond the annual games against UMass and UConn, against URI, UNH and even Maine a couple times in the 70s and 80s.

BU was in the YanCon all the way through to the end. Their last year of football, 1997, was the first year that the league was playing under the Atlantic 10 umbrella. League then became CAA Football in 2007.

I would enjoy BU being in the Patriot League a lot more if they still had football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Also, interesting that the latest Bracketology projections has the CAA representatives at #16 in the First Four

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2022-march-madness-men-field

#10 Murray State (OVC)
#12 Iona (MAAC)
#12 Chattanooga (SoCon)
#13 Vermont (America East)
#13 South Dakota State (Summit)
#14 Wagner (NEC)
#14 Northern Iowa (MVC)
#14 Montana State (Big Sky)
#15 Yale (Ivy)
#15 Longwood (Big South)
#16 Colgate (Patriot)
---
#16 UNC Wilmington (CAA)
#16 New Orleans (Southland)
#16 Norfolk State (MEAC)
#16 Southern (SWAC)

Believe it or not, the CAA actually had a team in the First Four not that long ago. JMU won one of the play-in games as a 16 seed four or five years ago.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/HBCUGameday/status/1488636866249338883

https://twitter.com/HBCUGameday/status/1494439784558780421

[mainejeff]

Congrats NC A&T!

[iBOsbu]

If Howard or another football school is the 14th member, that will increase CAA football to 15 members total. There’s a chance CAA football may cease to exist as separate entity and dissolve like A10 football. And football will be become part of main CAA conference. Despite being charter member, UNH and Maine should be concerned that they may end up in a new football league under America East umbrella along with Albany, URI, Bryant, CCSU etc.

[centraljerseycat]

Time for a split

[mainejeff]

Time for a split

What......Nova and Delaware playing 8 home & aways with each other.....and then the rest of us?

[centraljerseycat]

No need for a 14 team football conference. Time for Nova, UD, W&M and Richmond to let the Patriot League know they'll join for football in exchange for a change in the redshirt and AI rules.

[mainejeff]

No need for a 14 team football conference. Time for Nova, UD, W&M and Richmond to let the Patriot League know they'll join for football in exchange for a change in the redshirt and AI rules.

But Delaware and W&M are driving this bus and these additions. I've tried to sell the Patriot to W&M fans and they want nothing to do with that conference.

[Tribe4SF]

No need for a 14 team football conference. Time for Nova, UD, W&M and Richmond to let the Patriot League know they'll join for football in exchange for a change in the redshirt and AI rules.

Good luck with that. It ain't happenin'. W&M has no interest in being the southern outlier in the PL. I remember when Andy Talley used to bitch constantly about the bus trip to Williamsburg. Travel is a big part of this and life will be better for the Tribe with only one trip to the Northern division each year.

If Towson and Delaware are placed in the South something needs to be worked in allowing UD and Nova to play every year. Monmouth could be part of that too meaning the Hens would play the same eight teams each year. They will probably need to fly to NC A&T and Elon so seems fair.

[UNHWildcat18]

I wonder if NC A&T still plans on going to FBS down the road? I know they had interest in 2019.

[WestCoastAggie]

I wonder if NC A&T still plans on going to FBS down the road? I know they had interest in 2019.

Long-term plans but we admitted yesterday that the Power 5 could be promoting sweeping changes which will also include slowing down move-ups. Also, we gotta shell out $1 million dollars as part of this process and invest in facilities. So that ain't happening anytime soon.

But if Clemson joins the SEC, who the hell knows.

[WestCoastAggie]

Good luck with that. It ain't happenin'. W&M has no interest in being the southern outlier in the PL. I remember when Andy Talley used to bitch constantly about the bus trip to Williamsburg. Travel is a big part of this and life will be better for the Tribe with only one trip to the Northern division each year.

If Towson and Delaware are placed in the South something needs to be worked in allowing UD and Nova to play every year. Monmouth could be part of that too meaning the Hens would play the same eight teams each year. They will probably need to fly to NC A&T and Elon so seems fair.

As long as they cut the divisions correctly and possibly add Howard (or another NC school which CoC and Elon want), there shouldn't be much divisional crossover.

[Tribe4SF]

As long as they cut the divisions correctly and possibly add Howard (or another NC school which CoC and Elon want), there shouldn't be much divisional crossover.

The South for football would be A&T, Elon, Hampton, W&M, Richmond, Towson and Delaware. My hope is for UNCG or High Point for all sports. I like 14 teams in divisional setup. Letting Delaware play Villanova and Monmouth every year in football could work.

[caribbeanhen]

The South for football would be A&T, Elon, Hampton, W&M, Richmond, Towson and Delaware. My hope is for UNCG or High Point for all sports. I like 14 teams in divisional setup. Letting Delaware play Villanova and Monmouth every year in football could work.

Sounds like two separate conferences

2 Auto bids?

[Tribe4SF]

Sounds like two separate conferences

2 Auto bids?

Seems fair!

[ElCid]

Long-term plans but we admitted yesterday that the Power 5 could be promoting sweeping changes which will also include slowing down move-ups. Also, we gotta shell out $1 million dollars as part of this process and invest in facilities. So that ain't happening anytime soon.

But if Clemson joins the SEC, who the hell knows.

I still don't get why CAA continues on a growth binge. But something you mentioned may be the key.

If sweeping changes do happen and a new division is created out of G5 and upper tier FCS, not all current FCS teams in a given conf may want to move to that new division for whatever reason. Kind of like the turmoil of the I-A/IAA split. It stands to reason that if the CAA does, which would be likely, then at least some of their current schools may not want to change and they fear a big split in the CAA. Better to start with um-teen teams rather than 11 to pad themselves.

Another obvious reason is travel. With costs going up, rapidly, travel is going weigh heavy on budgets. To be honest I think we will start to see some losses of teams in FCS after years of gains. Like back in the late 90s, early 00s. Some schools are barely able to make ends meet and many are seeing some declines in enrollment that make athletics an easy target.

[OhioHen]

No need for a 14 team football conference. Time for Nova, UD, W&M and Richmond to let the Patriot League know they'll join for football in exchange for a change in the redshirt and AI rules.
The Hens and Tribe are full CAA members. Dropping down to the PL for football would also certainly require dropping down to the PL in other sports.

Wildcats and Spiders are CAA football affiliates. They could make the switch and fight it out for the PL auto-bid every year without the other sports being affected.

[WestCoastAggie]

It's officially official. A&T's full BOT unanimously voted to join the CAA. It helped that many board members were part of the feasibility study for the move this past fall.

[KPSUL]

If Howard or another football school is the 14th member, that will increase CAA football to 15 members total. There’s a chance CAA football may cease to exist as separate entity and dissolve like A10 football. And football will be become part of main CAA conference. Despite being charter member, UNH and Maine should be concerned that they may end up in a new football league under America East umbrella along with Albany, URI, Bryant, CCSU etc.

In reality, I think SBU may have more to be concerned about. Would you rather be in a football conference with Elon, NCA&T, W&M, Hampton, Howard, Towson, Monmouth, Delaware? Or Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Villanova and Richmond? It would be "Back to the Future" for SBU. The Big South, Act 2.

[KPSUL]

I'm getting more concerned the CAA long term plans may eventually effect the football only members. NCA&T and now there is talk about Howard joining. If that happens, we'd be looking at 15 teams in the CAA Football Conference. That's too many teams, I think I'd rather see two conferences - particularly if each half could find one or two teams to join them. I think 9 teams per conference is ideal - that way with an 8 game conference schedule you'd play each conference member each season. This development, potentially adding a total of 4 more CAA members as full sport members, all with football teams, makes me think that the CAA would like to end up with a football program made up entirely of full sport members. That would mean a football conference consisting of Stony Brook, Monmouth, Delaware, Towson, Hampton, Howard, W&M, NCA&T and Elon. What a coincidence? Nine teams!

If this turns out to be the case, the current football only CAA members should make there own preemptive plans. Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Villanova, and Richmond would form the core of a very good FCS conference. Possible additions to get to nine teams might be Umass, Uconn, and Youngstown State. This new conference would be significantly better than the remaining CAA.

[UNHWildcat18]

I'm getting more concerned the CAA long term plans may eventually effect the football only members. NCA&T and now there is talk about Howard joining. If that happens, we'd be looking at 15 teams in the CAA Football Conference. That's too many teams, I think I'd rather see two conferences - particularly if each half could find one or two teams to join them. I think 9 teams per conference is ideal - that way with an 8 game conference schedule you'd play each conference member each season. This development, potentially adding a total of 4 more CAA members as full sport members, all with football teams, makes me think that the CAA would like to end up with a football program made up entirely of full sport members. That would mean a football conference consisting of Stony Brook, Monmouth, Delaware, Towson, Hampton, Howard, W&M, NCA&T and Elon. What a coincidence? Nine teams!

If this turns out to be the case, the current football only CAA members should make there own preemptive plans. Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Villanova, and Richmond would form the core of a very good FCS conference. Possible additions to get to nine teams might be Umass, Uconn, and Youngstown State. This new conference would be significantly better than the remaining CAA.

If UNH URI UMaine Albany Villanova Richmond got umASS to come back to FCS and formed their own conference I’m sure UD and SBU would be crying from the other side of the glass window that would be the CAAFB at that point.

[Sitting Bull]

In reality, I think SBU may have more to be concerned about. Would you rather be in a football conference with Elon, NCA&T, W&M, Hampton, Howard, Towson, Monmouth, Delaware? Or Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Villanova and Richmond? It would be "Back to the Future" for SBU. The Big South, Act 2.

Villanova and Richmond would not choose to join New England opponents over Mid Atl, particularly their rivals Delaware and W&M. So no, I think Stony Brook is feeling pretty good, football and all other sports.

[Dane96]

Villanova and Richmond would not choose to join New England opponents over Mid Atl, particularly their rivals Delaware and W&M. So no, I think Stony Brook is feeling pretty good, football and all other sports.

This is very accurate.

UMASS is not dropping down, so whomever from UNH posted that...it's a pipe dream.

I honestly don't think ANY football teams in the CAA have anything to worry about, the league is set at 14 and will stay that way. It's perfect for scheduling. Play your division once (6 games), 2 cross over games with the other division, and 3-4 OOC (11 and 12 game seasons). It is no different than CAA football today and makes a very cost compact league. Towson is going to be a little upset that they are in the South for football (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook, Delaware, and Villanova are the North in the new divisional set up that will happen in 2023) but they can blame Delaware for that if the Hens get their way and stay with Villanova. They may relent, however to try to be the "big dog" of the Southern Division, aka the JMU.

The CAA is done with this round, however they likely will go to 16. I know it sounds crazy but this is all about a land grab of the best schools they can find before others find them, in the event the landscape changes. The league either will be powerful enough to get two bids in hoops and lacrosse, ore there will be an eventual N/S mutual split.

If they go to 16, Howard of course could change their mind at any point and I think the CAA would think long and hard about going to 16 football teams and pick up a Campbell in the South. From many of those connected with Howard, going to the CAA is currently off of the table. They want to use basketball to be the "Jackson State" of the HBCU basketball scene. They want to be the beacon. I don't think they are changing their minds and I don't think CAA football is going to 16, which would be required if Howard came aboard. The reason the CAA "stayed" at 13 for football this year is because the AT&T deal was getting wrapped up due to negotiations with the Big South and the CAA that AT&T would NOT bring football in 2022 to the CAA. AT&T wanted the Big South to keep their autobid, and Bryant wasn't going to be able to move football for this season. The Big South and OVC are also in talks about a possible football merger of sorts.

That means, if the CAA goes to 16...they are likely going to pick two schools without football (one north and one south to keep Towson in the North) or they could ask a football affiliate and grab a non-football school from the South.

Food for thought...

[Professor]

This is very accurate.

UMASS is not dropping down, so whomever from UNH posted that...it's a pipe dream.

I honestly don't think ANY football teams in the CAA have anything to worry about, the league is set at 14 and will stay that way. It's perfect for scheduling. Play your division once (6 games), 2 cross over games with the other division, and 3-4 OOC (11 and 12 game seasons). It is no different than CAA football today and makes a very cost compact league. Towson is going to be a little upset that they are in the South for football (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook, Delaware, and Villanova are the North in the new divisional set up that will happen in 2023) but they can blame Delaware for that if the Hens get their way and stay with Villanova. They may relent, however to try to be the "big dog" of the Southern Division, aka the JMU.

The CAA is done with this round, however they likely will go to 16. I know it sounds crazy but this is all about a land grab of the best schools they can find before others find them, in the event the landscape changes. The league either will be powerful enough to get two bids in hoops and lacrosse, ore there will be an eventual N/S mutual split.

If they go to 16, Howard of course could change their mind at any point and I think the CAA would think long and hard about going to 16 football teams and pick up a Campbell in the South. From many of those connected with Howard, going to the CAA is currently off of the table. They want to use basketball to be the "Jackson State" of the HBCU basketball scene. They want to be the beacon. I don't think they are changing their minds and I don't think CAA football is going to 16, which would be required if Howard came aboard. The reason the CAA "stayed" at 13 for football this year is because the AT&T deal was getting wrapped up due to negotiations with the Big South and the CAA that AT&T would NOT bring football in 2022 to the CAA. AT&T wanted the Big South to keep their autobid, and Bryant wasn't going to be able to move football for this season. The Big South and OVC are also in talks about a possible football merger of sorts.

That means, if the CAA goes to 16...they are likely going to pick two schools without football (one north and one south to keep Towson in the North) or they could ask a football affiliate and grab a non-football school from the South.

Food for thought...

A&T...... North Carolina A&T

[WestCoastAggie]

A&T...... North Carolina A&T

AT&T is that piss poor phone service on A&T's campus during GHOE every fall. So bad, they have to bring in temporary cell phone towers. 🤣

[caribbeanhen]

A&T...... North Carolina A&T

Ive always said NCA&T Delaware would be a great FCS match up

[KPSUL]

This is very accurate.

UMASS is not dropping down, so whomever from UNH posted that...it's a pipe dream.

I honestly don't think ANY football teams in the CAA have anything to worry about, the league is set at 14 and will stay that way. It's perfect for scheduling. Play your division once (6 games), 2 cross over games with the other division, and 3-4 OOC (11 and 12 game seasons). It is no different than CAA football today and makes a very cost compact league. Towson is going to be a little upset that they are in the South for football (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook, Delaware, and Villanova are the North in the new divisional set up that will happen in 2023) but they can blame Delaware for that if the Hens get their way and stay with Villanova. They may relent, however to try to be the "big dog" of the Southern Division, aka the JMU.

The CAA is done with this round, however they likely will go to 16. I know it sounds crazy but this is all about a land grab of the best schools they can find before others find them, in the event the landscape changes. The league either will be powerful enough to get two bids in hoops and lacrosse, ore there will be an eventual N/S mutual split.

If they go to 16, Howard of course could change their mind at any point and I think the CAA would think long and hard about going to 16 football teams and pick up a Campbell in the South. From many of those connected with Howard, going to the CAA is currently off of the table. They want to use basketball to be the "Jackson State" of the HBCU basketball scene. They want to be the beacon. I don't think they are changing their minds and I don't think CAA football is going to 16, which would be required if Howard came aboard. The reason the CAA "stayed" at 13 for football this year is because the AT&T deal was getting wrapped up due to negotiations with the Big South and the CAA that AT&T would NOT bring football in 2022 to the CAA. AT&T wanted the Big South to keep their autobid, and Bryant wasn't going to be able to move football for this season. The Big South and OVC are also in talks about a possible football merger of sorts.

That means, if the CAA goes to 16...they are likely going to pick two schools without football (one north and one south to keep Towson in the North) or they could ask a football affiliate and grab a non-football school from the South.

Food for thought...

I don't think any of us really know whether or not UMASS would consider coming back to FCS, but I think an alignment with the current CAA football only teams would make that option very tempting. They are in a terrible situation at this point, with no FBS solution readily available to them.

So it seems as though you think that Howard joining the CAA is total BS? I didn't think it made much sense to go to 13 teams with Hampton or 14 in 2023 with NCA&T. But those expansions are occurring. I'm just suggesting that it is beginning to look like there is some greater agenda here. If it is CAA football comprised of all sports schools, I'd like to see the football only schools make a decision that is in the common interest sooner rather than later. It isn't my "dream" by any means. I actually hope the CAA is not moving in that direction, although a two division conference of 14+ teams only makes sense if they somehow could negotiate two auto-bids, one for each division. Otherwise I'd prefer Albany, UNH, URI and Maine play in a separate conference - even if they let you or Sitting Bull from W&M pick the rest of our conference mates.

[Dane96]

A&T...... North Carolina A&T

Sorry, it's a habit. AT&T was my largest client when I first moved to Boston. That was a major typo.

Kinda like your leadership leaving out Albany as an affiliate member on the slide they used with the Board of Trustees.

We are even. :)

[KPSUL]

Villanova and Richmond would not choose to join New England opponents over Mid Atl, particularly their rivals Delaware and W&M. So no, I think Stony Brook is feeling pretty good, football and all other sports.

Richmond probably - if that remained an option. But what crystal ball are peering into to know that Villanova would be so determined to stay in the same conference with NCA&T, Hampton, Howard and Elon. Rivalry games? You don't need to be in the same conference to schedule a rivalry game each season.

But actually your comments don't even address the central point you quoted from my post. Why would SBU want to play in conference that didn't include any of the top FCS programs from their region of the country? And since rivalry games are your issue, how about SBU vs their SUNY rival, Albany.

[Dane96]

I don't think any of us really know whether or not UMASS would consider coming back to FCS, but I think an alignment with the current CAA football only teams would make that option very tempting. They are in a terrible situation at this point, with no FBS solution readily available to them.

So it seems as though you think that Howard joining the CAA is total BS? I didn't think it made much sense to go to 13 teams with Hampton or 14 in 2023 with NCA&T. But those expansions are occurring. I'm just suggesting that it is beginning to look like there is some greater agenda here. If it is a football league comprised of all sports schools, I'd like to see the football only schools make a decision that is in the common interest sooner rather than later. It isn't my "dream" by any means.

I

I am pretty positive they are not coming back. They would drop football first. They are all in to finding a new conference, and I have some ties to that program. It would take the Governor coming in and making that happen for it to happen.

I don't think Howard coming to the CAA is total bull****, where did I make that statement. What I said was is that right now, the ship has sailed based on comments made by the school, coaches, and industry people based on Howard's goals. Howard is the gem however, and if they call the CAA before the CAA gets to 15 or 16, they are a shoo in, no questions asked. The next school to come aboard will be either a 16th football school...which is super crazy for the FCS level, or they will stick with 15 and bring a non-football school in the North, with Howard the most northern, south division team.

Howard basically can write it's own contract to go to the CAA, Southern, AE, MAAC, MEAC, NEC, etc. Heck, I think even the Atlantic 10 would take them.

[WestCoastAggie]

This is very accurate.

UMASS is not dropping down, so whomever from UNH posted that...it's a pipe dream.

I honestly don't think ANY football teams in the CAA have anything to worry about, the league is set at 14 and will stay that way. It's perfect for scheduling. Play your division once (6 games), 2 cross over games with the other division, and 3-4 OOC (11 and 12 game seasons). It is no different than CAA football today and makes a very cost compact league. Towson is going to be a little upset that they are in the South for football (Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook, Delaware, and Villanova are the North in the new divisional set up that will happen in 2023) but they can blame Delaware for that if the Hens get their way and stay with Villanova. They may relent, however to try to be the "big dog" of the Southern Division, aka the JMU.

The CAA is done with this round, however they likely will go to 16. I know it sounds crazy but this is all about a land grab of the best schools they can find before others find them, in the event the landscape changes. The league either will be powerful enough to get two bids in hoops and lacrosse, ore there will be an eventual N/S mutual split.

If they go to 16, Howard of course could change their mind at any point and I think the CAA would think long and hard about going to 16 football teams and pick up a Campbell in the South. From many of those connected with Howard, going to the CAA is currently off of the table. They want to use basketball to be the "Jackson State" of the HBCU basketball scene. They want to be the beacon. I don't think they are changing their minds and I don't think CAA football is going to 16, which would be required if Howard came aboard. The reason the CAA "stayed" at 13 for football this year is because the AT&T deal was getting wrapped up due to negotiations with the Big South and the CAA that AT&T would NOT bring football in 2022 to the CAA. AT&T wanted the Big South to keep their autobid, and Bryant wasn't going to be able to move football for this season. The Big South and OVC are also in talks about a possible football merger of sorts.

That means, if the CAA goes to 16...they are likely going to pick two schools without football (one north and one south to keep Towson in the North) or they could ask a football affiliate and grab a non-football school from the South.

Food for thought...

Much of this came up during A&T's board meetings this week.

- - - Updated - - -


Sorry, it's a habit. AT&T was my largest client when I first moved to Boston. That was a major typo.

Kinda like your leadership leaving out Albany as an affiliate member on the slide they used with the Board of Trustees.

We are even. :)

Touché. LOL

[aceinthehole]

And for the record, Howard has all their non-MEAC sports (a total of 6)parked in the NEC.

[DFW HOYA]

And for the record, Howard has all their non-MEAC sports (a total of 6)parked in the NEC.

Howard is in a form of a prisoner's dilemma right now--leave for the NEC or CAA, and the rest of the MEAC collapses, a MEAC which has helped obscure the fact that despite its generous endowment and significant federal appropriations, Howard hasn't invested much into athletics over the years and they would visibly struggle in a larger conference. If everyone hangs together, the MEAC endures and Howard can do better there, but if someone else beats Howard to the punch and jumps ship, the Bison could be in trouble.

[WestCoastAggie]

Howard is in a form of a prisoner's dilemma right now--leave for the NEC or CAA, and the rest of the MEAC collapses, a MEAC which has helped obscure the fact that despite its generous endowment and significant federal appropriations, Howard hasn't invested much into athletics over the years and they would visibly struggle in a larger conference. If everyone hangs together, the MEAC endures and Howard can do better there, but if someone else beats Howard to the punch and jumps ship, the Bison could be in trouble.
How would you feel if I told you Delaware was ***this close*** to shutting this whole thing down in 2020?

[aceinthehole]

Howard is in a form of a prisoner's dilemma right now--leave for the NEC or CAA, and the rest of the MEAC collapses, a MEAC which has helped obscure the fact that despite its generous endowment and significant federal appropriations, Howard hasn't invested much into athletics over the years and they would visibly struggle in a larger conference. If everyone hangs together, the MEAC endures and Howard can do better there, but if someone else beats Howard to the punch and jumps ship, the Bison could be in trouble.

That is a great take. I really thought they might move to the NEC for the reason you suggest - they could be competitive outside the MEAC. However, at this point with other HBCUs in much stronger positions, a move to the NEC would be a huge disappointment for that program.

While Howard has a great name brand and reputation - I think they would struggle competitively in the CAA. I'm sure the PL has done their due diligence and looked under the hood and realized, they would never be a good fit in that league either.

This is likely why they are trying to keep the MEAC in place.

[Sitting Bull]

Richmond probably - if that remained an option. But what crystal ball are peering into to know that Villanova would be so determined to stay in the same conference with NCA&T, Hampton, Howard and Elon. Rivalry games? You don't need to be in the same conference to schedule a rivalry game each season.

But actually your comments don't even address the central point you quoted from my post. Why would SBU want to play in conference that didn't include any of the top FCS programs from their region of the country? And since rivalry games are your issue, how about SBU vs their SUNY rival, Albany.

Let’s be honest here. Richmond definitely, not probably, would not break away from CAA football to go rogue with URI, Maine, UNH and UAlbany. And why would Villanova do same when they could maintain a schedule with Delaware, Stony Brook, Richmond, Towson, Monmouth and W&M for a New England schedule? It makes no sense.

Stony Brook has made their decision and it does make sense to me, both geographically and as an upgrade in all sports. You imply that SBU considers UNH and Maine as “regional competitors”? They’re actually closer to Villanova, Monmouth, Delaware and Towson. You can even get to Richmond and W&M faster than LI to Orono. And my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine - so it’s not a negative as you seem to think it may be.

As far as UAlbany, I think they could try to schedule should the Danes peel off. It isn’t exactly a heated rivalry in football.

You also throw shade on Elon and the two new members, Hampton and NC A&T. I think you’re underestimating all three, particularly A&T. They are top ten in FCS attendance and have a very solid program. They had 3 straight FBS wins 2016-2018: ECU, Kent State and Charlotte. I’m not seeing Howard as a member, now or near future.

[mainejeff]

Let’s be honest here. Richmond definitely, not probably, would not break away from CAA football to go rogue with URI, Maine, UNH and UAlbany. And why would Villanova do same when they could maintain a schedule with Delaware, Stony Brook, Richmond, Towson, Monmouth and W&M for a New England schedule? It makes no sense.

Stony Brook has made their decision and it does make sense to me, both geographically and as an upgrade in all sports. You imply that SBU considers UNH and Maine as “regional competitors”? They’re actually closer to Villanova, Monmouth, Delaware and Towson. You can even get to Richmond and W&M faster than LI to Orono. And my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine - so it’s not a negative as you seem to think it may be.

As far as UAlbany, I think they could try to schedule should the Danes peel off. It isn’t exactly a heated rivalry in football.

You also throw shade on Elon and the two new members, Hampton and NC A&T. I think you’re underestimating all three, particularly A&T. They are top ten in FCS attendance and have a very solid program. They had 3 straight FBS wins 2016-2018: ECU, Kent State and Charlotte. I’m not seeing Howard as a member, now or near future.

And you constantly throw shade on Maine and New England. Wake me up when W&M becomes relevant in anything. Have fun with your gigantic patchwork conference.

[Sitting Bull]

And you constantly throw shade on Maine and New England. Wake me up when W&M becomes relevant in anything. Have fun with your gigantic patchwork conference.

Such BS. I like both actually. Grow up.

[mainejeff]

Such BS. I like both actually. Grow up.

That's rich coming from you.

[UNHWildcat18]

Such BS. I like both actually. Grow up.

Didn’t want to reply and cut out the larger message on my phone but I’m sorry regardless of attendance swac/meac programs IMO are not strong FCS programs. They are 9-54 in FCS playoffs…… NC A&T during it’s prime run over the last few years beat Elon by a TD or less when Elon was 5-6 or 4-7 and got smoked by Richmond in 2016 in the playoffs. Jeff isn’t underestimating them... they are weak until proven not. Hampton has basically been a .500 team since 2006

How did the mighty Florida rattlers do this year? Had to listen to jay walker talk about them for half the selection show. Yeah sure there are a lot of blowouts in the playoffs but that 9-54 record still is hard to ignore

[DFW HOYA]

How would you feel if I told you Delaware was ***this close*** to shutting this whole thing down in 2020?

Are you talking CAA or MEAC; that is, Delaware, or Del State?

[WestCoastAggie]

Are you talking CAA or MEAC; that is, Delaware, or Del State?
Delaware State and the MEAC.

[KPSUL]

Let’s be honest here. Richmond definitely, not probably, would not break away from CAA football to go rogue with URI, Maine, UNH and UAlbany. And why would Villanova do same when they could maintain a schedule with Delaware, Stony Brook, Richmond, Towson, Monmouth and W&M for a New England schedule? It makes no sense.

Stony Brook has made their decision and it does make sense to me, both geographically and as an upgrade in all sports. You imply that SBU considers UNH and Maine as “regional competitors”? They’re actually closer to Villanova, Monmouth, Delaware and Towson. You can even get to Richmond and W&M faster than LI to Orono. And my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine - so it’s not a negative as you seem to think it may be.

As far as UAlbany, I think they could try to schedule should the Danes peel off. It isn’t exactly a heated rivalry in football.

You also throw shade on Elon and the two new members, Hampton and NC A&T. I think you’re underestimating all three, particularly A&T. They are top ten in FCS attendance and have a very solid program. They had 3 straight FBS wins 2016-2018: ECU, Kent State and Charlotte. I’m not seeing Howard as a member, now or near future.

You must be wearing shades. I'm not estimating, over or under, any of the CAA full sport teams. It's all about regional affiliation. It is ludicrous to say it makes more sense geographically for SBU to play Elon, NC A&T, Hampton and W&M than Albany and the 3 NE State Universities. Also, unless state of NY law changed real recently, SUNY school can't even play in the state of NC.

Have you heard the names of Running Backs Dalton Crossan and Dylan Laube? How about O Lineman Matt Mascia? They are all recent or current 3-4 year starters ay UNH, from Long Island. What were the names of the comparable Long Island guys at Elon?

[WestCoastAggie]

You must be wearing shades. I'm not estimating, over or under, any of the CAA full sport teams. It's all about regional affiliation. It is ludicrous to say it makes more sense geographically for SBU to play Elon, NC A&T, Hampton and W&M than Albany and the 3 NE State Universities. Also, unless state of NY law changed real recently, SUNY school can't even play in the state of NC.

Have you heard the names of Running Backs Dalton Crossan and Dylan Laube? How about O Lineman Matt Mascia? They are all recent or current 3-4 year starters ay UNH, from Long Island. What were the names of the comparable Long Island guys at Elon?

The CAA wanted to make their Southern members happy. Going full NE for members wasn’t gonna cut it for schools like CoC, Towson, and UNCW. We shouldn’t see no more than perhaps 2-3 cross divisional treks in most sports.

IMHO, the divisions seem pretty regional and the potential CAA south reminds many of A&T’s treks in the MEAC until the Florida schools joined in the 1980s and D2 CIAA.

[Sitting Bull]

You must be wearing shades. I'm not estimating, over or under, any of the CAA full sport teams. It's all about regional affiliation. It is ludicrous to say it makes more sense geographically for SBU to play Elon, NC A&T, Hampton and W&M than Albany and the 3 NE State Universities. Also, unless state of NY law changed real recently, SUNY school can't even play in the state of NC.

Have you heard the names of Running Backs Dalton Crossan and Dylan Laube? How about O Lineman Matt Mascia? They are all recent or current 3-4 year starters ay UNH, from Long Island. What were the names of the comparable Long Island guys at Elon?

Why don’t you complain on the Stony Brook board and try and convince them. I think they probably have a better idea what’s better for them than a UNH fan. And you continue to ignore Hofstra, Northeastern, Monmouth, Delaware and Villanova in your argument.

I’m glad to see them fully on board and see the logic in their move.

[hengeek]

Also, unless state of NY law changed real recently, SUNY school can't even play in the state of NC.


I've been looking online for this for sometime now.

Does anybody know if this law is still in place? The one that puts a travel ban on NY public schools from spending money in North Carolina.

It would make expansion south of Virginia difficult/unfair for scheduling. I think NC A&T and SBU would only be able to play each other @ SBU. Same thing if Albany is added in the future or any NC public for that matter.

No problem in this scenario with Elon (NC) and Hofstra (NY) because they are private. Public only.


PS. please no political debate here. Just yes or no and maybe a reference.

[KPSUL]

The CAA wanted to make their Southern members happy. Going full NE for members wasn’t gonna cut it for schools like CoC, Towson, and UNCW. We shouldn’t see no more than perhaps 2-3 cross divisional treks in most sports.

IMHO, the divisions seem pretty regional and the potential CAA south reminds many of A&T’s treks in the MEAC until the Florida schools joined in the 1980s and D2 CIAA.

Well that is a very reasonable and straight forward explanation. But while adding Monmouth created balance in the north south alignment, adding one more NC team, one VA tidewater team and perhaps now Howard from DC, the balance is skewed south making it harder to go with a logical divisional setup in football. And as everyone realizes a 14 or 15 team football conference becomes - detrimental in many respects. Playoff selection could be negatively effective and we'd be playing some of our conference mates way too infrequently.

And the state of NY prohibition on SUNY schools playing NCAA sports in North Carolina creates further scheduling problems. Elon has played UNH almost every season since it joined the CAA in 2014. And that is because Stony Brook and Albany cannot. After NC passed its "bathroom Bill", the NY legislature passed a law restricting any NY public college from playing in NC.

Again my point is that if the CAA wants to add all these new full sport members to make the southern members happy and facilitate their basketball conference without adequately considering the impact on football, then they need to be prepared for possible consequences. The football only members have lots of good options to include the one I suggested in an earlier post to this thread, as well as just sticking it out in the CAA and being stubborn about any changes they don't see as favorable. Some of the doomsday predictions in a few posts to this thread that will force CAA football only members into unfavorable alignments are quite laughable.

From a personal standpoint, Adding NC A&T to CAA Football is good news to me. I go to at least half of the UNH away games each season and I currently live in Southeast West Virginia. With JMU gone, the two closest CAA opponents for me will now be Elon and NC A&T. And unless NY repeals its law concerning NC bathrooms, I will be getting to see you guys quite frequently!

[Tribe4SF]

I've been looking online for this for sometime now.

Does anybody know if this law is still in place? The one that puts a travel ban on NY public schools from spending money in North Carolina.

It would make expansion south of Virginia difficult/unfair for scheduling. I think NC A&T and SBU would only be able to play each other @ SBU. Same thing if Albany is added in the future or any NC public for that matter.

No problem in this scenario with Elon (NC) and Hofstra (NY) because they are private. Public only.


PS. please no political debate here. Just yes or no and maybe a reference.

Wondering when that law went into effect. Albany played at Elon in 2017.

[KPSUL]

I've been looking online for this for sometime now.

Does anybody know if this law is still in place? The one that puts a travel ban on NY public schools from spending money in North Carolina.

It would make expansion south of Virginia difficult/unfair for scheduling. I think NC A&T and SBU would only be able to play each other @ SBU. Same thing if Albany is added in the future or any NC public for that matter.

No problem in this scenario with Elon (NC) and Hofstra (NY) because they are private. Public only.


PS. please no political debate here. Just yes or no and maybe a reference.

It must have been in place when they made the Fall conference schedule. And there haven't been any Elon away games at Albany or SBU either. I assume because they can't do home and home scheduling and they don't want to disadvantage Elon by having to play more away games. There have been no Elon vs SUNY games since 2017.

[KPSUL]

Why don’t you complain on the Stony Brook board and try and convince them. I think they probably have a better idea what’s better for them than a UNH fan. And you continue to ignore Hofstra, Northeastern, Monmouth, Delaware and Villanova in your argument.

I’m glad to see them fully on board and see the logic in their move.

Another ridiculous comment. I'm not even remotely concerned about CAA basketball, I don't care how well it does or doesn't work for Stony Brook as a basketball conference.
This is a football message board isn't it? But I wonder if Stony Brook was even aware that additional southern schools with football teams would be added to the conference shortly after they joined as full sporters. If they did, then they didn't adequately consider the impact of their decision on football. But maybe the net gain for SB athletics justified their decision. Don't know and don't care. I'm football, hockey, alpine skiing and soccer oriented. And SBU wasn't much of threat to UNH in Soccer and they don't play on ice or snow.

So who are all those Long Islanders flocking to Elon? I think this was your comment "my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine"

[ElCid]

Another ridiculous comment. I'm not even remotely concerned about CAA basketball, I don't care how well it does or doesn't work for Stony Brook as a basketball conference.
This is a football message board isn't it? But I wonder if Stony Brook was even aware that additional southern schools with football teams would be added to the conference shortly after they joined as full sporters. If they did, then they didn't adequately consider the impact of their decision on football. But maybe the net gain for SB athletics justified their decision. Don't know and don't care. I'm football, hockey, alpine skiing and soccer oriented. And SBU wasn't much of threat to UNH in Soccer and they don't play on ice or snow.

So who are all those Long Islanders flocking to Elon? I think this was your comment "my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine"



Just some data for kicks and grins on Elon's class of 2025. Top states:

Top ten represented states:

NC (18%)
MA (10%)
NJ (9%)
NY (8%)
VA (7%)
CT (6%)
MD (6%)
PA (6%)
FL (5%)
GA (3%)

https://www.elon.edu/u/admissions/undergraduate/belong/our-community/first-year-class-profile/

Seems like lots from the NE. Mass being the top out of state origin. Not sure how this compares to 10-15 years ago. But clearly half coming from N East. Not sure of how many in NEast going to NEast schools.

[iBOsbu]

I’m pretty sure our decision makers knew what CAA is planning. And decided to join knowing there would be north/south divisions. Sure, we fans didn’t know, but that doesn’t mean the school was caught surprised. I’m fact rumors of CAA wanting to expand to 14 has been going around even before the presser. As a fan I think 14 is too big for a one-bid, but at the end of the day, in a one-bid league teams just need to win the games in conference tourney in March to go dance.

[UAalum72]

It must have been in place when they made the Fall conference schedule. And there haven't been any Elon away games at Albany or SBU either. I assume because they can't do home and home scheduling and they don't want to disadvantage Elon by having to play more away games. There have been no Elon vs SUNY games since 2017.The last time Albany played Elon they bussed to the game from a hotel in Virginia, thus avoiding spending anything in NC

[Sitting Bull]

Another ridiculous comment. I'm not even remotely concerned about CAA basketball, I don't care how well it does or doesn't work for Stony Brook as a basketball conference.
This is a football message board isn't it? But I wonder if Stony Brook was even aware that additional southern schools with football teams would be added to the conference shortly after they joined as full sporters. If they did, then they didn't adequately consider the impact of their decision on football. But maybe the net gain for SB athletics justified their decision. Don't know and don't care. I'm football, hockey, alpine skiing and soccer oriented. And SBU wasn't much of threat to UNH in Soccer and they don't play on ice or snow.

So who are all those Long Islanders flocking to Elon? I think this was your comment "my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine"



You are running in circles and continue to make no sense. If your concern is only football, then why are you even concerned about Stony Brook? They were in the CAA for football and remain so.

[Sitting Bull]

Wondering when that law went into effect. Albany played at Elon in 2017.

Why was the law even enacted?

[Sitting Bull]

Just some data for kicks and grins on Elon's class of 2025. Top states:

Top ten represented states:

NC (18%)
MA (10%)
NJ (9%)
NY (8%)
VA (7%)
CT (6%)
MD (6%)
PA (6%)
FL (5%)
GA (3%)

https://www.elon.edu/u/admissions/undergraduate/belong/our-community/first-year-class-profile/

Seems like lots from the NE. Mass being the top out of state origin. Not sure how this compares to 10-15 years ago. But clearly half coming from N East. Not sure of how many in NEast going to NEast schools.

This explains why Elon shifted to the CAA in the first place and why rumors of paying an exit fee to rejoin the So Con are BS. I’m betting Charleston may have a higher in state though still a decent number of northeastern students.

[KPSUL]

Just some data for kicks and grins on Elon's class of 2025. Top states:

Top ten represented states:

NC (18%)
MA (10%)
NJ (9%)
NY (8%)
VA (7%)
CT (6%)
MD (6%)
PA (6%)
FL (5%)
GA (3%)

https://www.elon.edu/u/admissions/undergraduate/belong/our-community/first-year-class-profile/

Seems like lots from the NE. Mass being the top out of state origin. Not sure how this compares to 10-15 years ago. But clearly half coming from N East. Not sure of how many in NEast going to NEast schools.

That's a very diverse student population by east coast states. I'm sure we have far more New Yorkers and Mass. kids at UNH in terms of raw numbers, but UNH is a much a larger school than Elon. Due to in-state tuition rates UNH, like any state school, is going to have a much larger percentage of in state students. I just watched a documentary that illustrated how many private schools are offering aid packages that rival rates available to in-state students at their State Universities. Your data for Elon certainly supports that. In terms of football recruits, most of the CAA teams are going to be selecting most of their players from their region, with perhaps a slightly increasing number of players coming from further. Long Island has recently been a very fertile recruiting ground for UNH in terms of quality. Massachusetts probably provides the most, followed by PA. We have also gotten quality players that fit our system from MD and VA and a few from out west and FL.

[KPSUL]

You are running in circles and continue to make no sense. If your concern is only football, then why are you even concerned about Stony Brook? They were in the CAA for football and remain so.

I never was particularly interested in SBU's decision. I responded to a SBU poster who was trying to make a point about potential consequences for the 4 northeastern CAA football only members as a result of recent CAA football additions - which includes my alma mater. My business in other words. Got it? You may want to read an entire conversation before butting in and appearing woefully uninformed. Just a suggestion.

[Sitting Bull]

I never was particularly interested in SBU's decision. I responded to a SBU poster who was trying to make a point about potential consequences for the 4 northeastern CAA football only members as a result of recent CAA football additions - which includes my alma mater. My business in other words. Got it? You may want to read an entire conversation before butting in and appearing woefully uninformed. Just a suggestion.

I got it that you have strong opinions, talk in circles and can come across like a condescending jerk sometimes. You don’t have to. As you said, it’s just a discussion board and I’m not invested in SBU. It’s supposed to be fun.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Why was the law even enacted?




32417...AH BELIEVE...IT WAS....GENDER IDENTITY UNDER TITLE IX.......NORFF CAROLINA DECIDED TO PROHIBIT TRANSGENDER STUDENTS...FROM USIN' BATHROOMS & CHANGIN' FACILITIES....CORRESPONDIN' TO GENDER IDENTITY....FREE THINKIN' NEW YORKERS......DECIDED TA BOYCOTT............MAH GUESS ANYWHO.........AWK!!

...SEE 2016's.....N. CAROLINA PUBLIC FACILITIES PRIVACY & SECURITY ACT....IN LINK......AWK!


Gender_identity_under_Title_IX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_under_Title_IX)

[OhioHen]

Have you heard the names of Running Backs Dalton Crossan and Dylan Laube? How about O Lineman Matt Mascia? They are all recent or current 3-4 year starters ay UNH, from Long Island. What were the names of the comparable Long Island guys at Elon?
Who?

But in all seriousness:

So who are all those Long Islanders flocking to Elon? I think this was your comment "my bet is there are more people on LI today looking at Elon for college aged kids than UNH or Maine"

Nobody said that football players from Long Island were flocking to Elon. The comment was (my interpretation) that it is likely that more STUDENTS on Long Island are considering Elon to attend.

[whoanellie]

Wow. As usual these threads roll around in about 4 or 5 conversations on expansion additions or exits.
1-As an Elon alum and still a North Carolina resident I understand that the "Bathroom Bill" was discredited and
abolished by the Governor many years ago. As a really inclusive institution Elon, a private school, never participated
in that period. The former New York Governor Cuomo has made it a thing because North Carolina has won some major
incentives from top corporations like Toyota, Honda Jet, and many others. There needs to be clarity. Syracuse of the ACC
is doing business in North Carolina. I believe the New York schools need to get with the program.
I am glad Elon is in the CAA and as a full member (football inclusive) NCA&T for us is a good addition.
Hampton, and Monmouth are also welcome additions.
We have been playing football over 100 years. We can hold our own with our resume'.
Elon is simply not the school I enrolled in over 50 years ago.
We have always played up. Going way back
We were in the same same conference as App St. & East Carolina.
We played OOC schools Troy and Samford and Miami.
The latest shift to FBS schools have been schools the last 10 years have been
former conference mates and start ups. They are Georgia Southern, Ga. State, App, Coastal, Liberty
ODU, Charlotte, and now JMU. I have always wished them well. It's an honor to win 10 games and play in the earliest
and crappiest bowl locations.
Adding 20 plus grants in aid per school has given opportunities to dozens of young men. So that's a plus.
The CAA is a quality alliance and now is linked along to almost the 13 colonies which is fitting.
Laying down a schedule could add additional conference games as OOC money contests could be restricted or limited.
That being said I really enjoyed my trip to Maine this past fall. As we start to regain our new normal a visit and tailgate to Elon and North Carolina
in the fall is an awesome experience.

[mainejeff]

I’m pretty sure our decision makers knew what CAA is planning. And decided to join knowing there would be north/south divisions. Sure, we fans didn’t know, but that doesn’t mean the school was caught surprised. I’m fact rumors of CAA wanting to expand to 14 has been going around even before the presser. As a fan I think 14 is too big for a one-bid, but at the end of the day, in a one-bid league teams just need to win the games in conference tourney in March to go dance.

Did they make the decision with the best interests of the student-athletes in mind? Stony Brook knew the rules that were in place already since they played a part in formulating and enforcing (BU) them. Or was it a financial decision that was just too good to pass up....student-athletes be damned?

[mainejeff]

I got it that you have strong opinions, talk in circles and can come across like a condescending jerk sometimes. You don’t have to. As you said, it’s just a discussion board and I’m not invested in SBU. It’s supposed to be fun.

You are describing yourself.

[Professor]

So what's the official count of CAA schools. 14 or 15

[mainejeff]

So what's the official count of CAA schools. 14 or 15

Tonight might be different from the end of the day tomorrow.

[Dane96]

13

[Sitting Bull]

You are describing yourself.

I think he might be your twin.

[Gil Dobie]

Hopefully the CAA can add a better sports announcing network. Flo Sports is tough to listen to.

[caa51]

The CAA was probably considered the second or third strongest FCS football conference before these additions. Where do you think the conference ranks after these additions and the loss of JMU?

[UNHWildcat18]

The CAA was probably considered the second or third strongest FCS football conference before these additions. Where do you think the conference ranks after these additions and the loss of JMU?
They aren’t adding strength currently. CAA has been on a downward trend and losing JMU I still keeps us in 3rd behind big sky and MVFC. Adding a school like Hampton who hasn’t really been above .500 since 2006 and is 0-5 in all playoffs games doesn’t add squat. NCA&T is 1-5 in playoffs and Monmouth is 1-3. Not saying they can’t do better in the future but it’s not a net positive if one were to say is our conference stronger with them added today.. IMHO

[iBOsbu]

Third with potential to get to second.

[iBOsbu]

They aren’t adding strength IMO.

They are not JMU, but both A&T and Monmouth are solid and I would consider strength.

[WestCoastAggie]

They aren’t adding strength currently. CAA has been on a downward trend and losing JMU I still keeps us in 3rd behind big sky and MVFC. Adding a school like Hampton who hasn’t really been above .500 since 2006 and is 0-5 in all playoffs games doesn’t add squat. NCA&T is 1-5 in playoffs and Monmouth is 1-3. Not saying they can’t do better in the future but it’s not a net positive if one were to say is our conference stronger with them added today.. IMHO

Give A&T’s admin some time to pump up the resources. With an athletics capital campaign starting up with a 9-figure goal, A&T football will be at the top half of CAAFB and a playoff contender way sooner than later.

[UNHWildcat18]

Give A&T’s admin some time to pump up the resources. With an athletics capital campaign starting up with a 9-figure goal, A&T football will be at the top half of CAAFB and a playoff contender way sooner than later.
I believe you guys are best suited to do just that out of the 3

[caribbeanhen]

Hopefully the CAA can add a better sports announcing network. Flo Sports is tough to listen to.

Just turn the sound down, haven’t missed anything by watching games this way

[FUBeAR]

Third with potential to get to second.
Lotta talk in this thread about the CAA being the 2nd or 3rd best FCS Conference…

Seems odd to FUBeAR.

Just a mere few months ago, the Team that is now the CAA’s 2nd best Team, lost, at home, to a SoCon Team that went 0-fer…yep, they were 0-8…in the SoCon…and clearly an inferior Team to any other SoCon Team…yet this CAA Team that lost to a winless-in-the-SoCon Team whipped 5 CAA Teams.

So…unless y’all are discounting the MVFC or the Big Sky, FUBeAR doesn’t see how the CAA could be anything better than the 4th best FCS Conference.

Fire away….

[Dane96]

Give A&T’s admin some time to pump up the resources. With an athletics capital campaign starting up with a 9-figure goal, A&T football will be at the top half of CAAFB and a playoff contender way sooner than later.

Couldn't agree more. Athletically, I think A&T will end up being the strongest add of the bunch.

[mainejeff]

They aren’t adding strength currently. CAA has been on a downward trend and losing JMU I still keeps us in 3rd behind big sky and MVFC. Adding a school like Hampton who hasn’t really been above .500 since 2006 and is 0-5 in all playoffs games doesn’t add squat. NCA&T is 1-5 in playoffs and Monmouth is 1-3. Not saying they can’t do better in the future but it’s not a net positive if one were to say is our conference stronger with them added today.. IMHO

I feel like Monmouth and NC A&T will be good adds....Hampton not so much.

[Sitting Bull]

Lotta talk in this thread about the CAA being the 2nd or 3rd best FCS Conference…

Seems odd to FUBeAR.

Just a mere few months ago, the Team that is now the CAA’s 2nd best Team, lost, at home, to a SoCon Team that went 0-fer…yep, they were 0-8…in the SoCon…and clearly an inferior Team to any other SoCon Team…yet this CAA Team that lost to a winless-in-the-SoCon Team whipped 5 CAA Teams.

So…unless y’all are discounting the MVFC or the Big Sky, FUBeAR doesn’t see how the CAA could be anything better than the 4th best FCS Conference.

Fire away….

That’s quite a stretch. For factual info, JMU was #2 in the CAA. Villanova was the champ. So Elon was #3 and that won’t change until September. Nice try with the semantics though.

And your speaking of a 1 point win at Elon? This is the same Wofford team that took YOUR champ to the wire. So that says a lot more about weakness in the So Con than it does in the CAA.

While the CAA had an off year with only 2 in the playoffs - and a 3-2 record, the So Con remained a one bid league going 1-1.

[MR. CHICKEN]

That’s quite a stretch. For factual info, JMU was #2 in the CAA. Villanova was the champ. So Elon was #3 and that won’t change until September. Nice try with the semantics though.

And your speaking of a 1 point win at Elon? This is the same Wofford team that took YOUR champ to the wire. So that says a lot more about weakness in the So Con than it does in the CAA.

While the CAA had an off year with only 2 in the playoffs - and a 3-2 record, the So Con remained a one bid league going 1-1.


.......OUCH FUBIE.......CAME OUTTAH YER CAVE.....LITTLE EARLY............BRAWK!!

[mainejeff]

32420

[caribbeanhen]

I feel like Monmouth and NC A&T will be good adds....Hampton not so much.

NC A&T, just speaking with the football goggles on, is a good thing.

[FUBeAR]

That’s quite a stretch. For factual info, JMU was #2 in the CAA. Villanova was the champ. So Elon was #3 and that won’t change until September.

And your speaking of a 1 point win at Elon? This is the same Wofford team that took YOUR champ to the wire. So that says a lot more about weakness in the So Con than it does in the CAA.

While the CAA had an off year with only 2 in the playoffs - and a 3-2 record, the So Con remained a one bid league going 1-1.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/fleischmann-wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/27233058/Tip-Pretzel-Shaping.gif

- - - Updated - - -


.......OUCH FUBIE.......CAME OUTTAH YER CAVE.....LITTLE EARLY............BRAWK!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O34nJLzHXPY

[WestCoastAggie]

I feel like Monmouth and NC A&T will be good adds....Hampton not so much.

Short-term, Monmouth will be a dark horse in the running for the CAA Auto-Bid. They had some injuries on both sides of the ball that hindered them in their out of conference games last season. If those guys return healthy, look out. They won't drop a game against Monmouth, that for sure.

[MR. CHICKEN]

........FUBIE HAS TWO FAVORITE TEAMS.......WHAA YA DO....WHEN DEY PLAY EACH OTHERAH...........ROOT FO' SAMFORD....xchinscratchx......AWK!

[kdinva]

So....with NC A&T joining in 17 months, 14 CAA football teams. Any chance the league's leaders vote on a nine game conf. schedule?

[Gil Dobie]

Just turn the sound down, haven’t missed anything by watching games this way

What sound, 2 guys talking. I learned my lesson, and will not be using them again, radio is better.

[hengeek]

I feel like Monmouth and NC A&T will be good adds....Hampton not so much.Perhaps but the tidewater area is a hotbed for talent. Hampton could become attractive for recruits wanting to play in a better conference then the last 2 they were in.

Monmouth and NC A&T are farther along. Hampton has the potential to make the biggest leap in recruiting and thus the biggest turnaround.

Plus I like that it gives the conference exposure there.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate

Tie breaker would potentially be a mess

[WestCoastAggie]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate

Tie breaker would potentially be a mess

nothing will compare to the tie breaker mess of the 2014 MEAC.

[caribbeanhen]

nothing will compare to the tie breaker mess of the 2014 MEAC.

was it to decide who went to playoffs?

[Professor]

was it to decide who went to playoffs?

yes 5 way tie for 1st place

[FUBeAR]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate
- loses best and only consistently playoff-worthy Team
- adds 3 Teams with combined FCS/I-AA Playoff records of 2-13
- so…deserves 100% more automatic playoff bids…

https://media.tenor.com/images/9c25153327abed01aa1b67595d081b49/tenor.gif

[caribbeanhen]

- loses best and only consistently playoff-worthy Team
- adds 3 Teams with combined FCS/I-AA Playoff records of 2-13
- so…deserves 100% more automatic playoff bids…

https://media.tenor.com/images/9c25153327abed01aa1b67595d081b49/tenor.gif

sure do

[Mocs123]

I don't care if the SEC dropped down to FCS - no conference, not even the mighty MVFC, deserves more than one auto bid.

[walliver]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate

Tie breaker would potentially be a mess

If you did that, the MVFC fanboys would demand 4 auto-bids.

To be honest, auto-bids are really only important for conferences at the bottom of the pile.

[Laker]

nothing will compare to the tie breaker mess of the 2014 MEAC.

Amazing. What did they do?

When I was a HS senior there was a four way tie in the 212 Conference for first place in baseball. Four trophies were given out, but no runner up trophy.

[WestCoastAggie]

yes 5 way tie for 1st place

And it happened all because then Sophomore Tarik Cohen fumbled the ball trying to score a go ahead touchdown at the goal line late in the 4th quarter against NCCU. Tarik wrote a letter of apology to Aggies on Twitter after the game. Our losses to NCCU and Morgan State that year helped lead to that 5-way tie and a 7-4 Morgan winning the Auto-Bid on a coin flip.

[POD Knows]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate

Tie breaker would potentially be a messNo freaking way, one auto bid only, they want to be two conferences with AB's break apart, find some bottom feeders or D2 guys moving up.

[ElCid]

So if the CAA splits into North and South seems like 2 Auto bids would be appropriate

Tie breaker would potentially be a mess

Noooo. I am a firm believer in the autobid for any "conference winner." But this would be silly. Anybody that wants to live in an um-teen team conference has to suck it up.

[caribbeanhen]

And it happened all because then Sophomore Tarik Cohen fumbled the ball trying to score a go ahead touchdown at the goal line late in the 4th quarter against NCCU. Tarik wrote a letter of apology to Aggies on Twitter after the game. Our losses to NCCU and Morgan State that year helped lead to that 5-way tie and a 7-4 Morgan winning the Auto-Bid on a coin flip.

I didn’t know any of that. Tarik was special !

[WestCoastAggie]

Noooo. I am a firm believer in the autobid for any "conference winner." But this would be silly. Anybody that wants to live in an um-teen team conference has to suck it up.

Agreed. It's not like both divisional winners wouldn't be shoo-ins for the playoffs anyway with both as likely top-8 seeds in a 24-team tournament. Anything less than 3 at-large bids for the CAA at this point should be considered a disappointment.

[WestCoastAggie]

I didn’t know any of that. Tarik was special !

Quick correction: It was a game tying score he fumbled on the NCCU 1. That happened after gaining 20 yards on that run. He put so much effort into that run. And he was special. Honestly, if it wasn't for Cohen and Coach Broadway, A&T is very likely not joining the CAA in 2023.

[caribbeanhen]

If you did that, the MVFC fanboys would demand 4 auto-bids.

To be honest, auto-bids are really only important for conferences at the bottom of the pile.

Actually, The Valley Boys are pushing for an Auto-out that would determine the one Valley team not worthy of a playoff spot.

Just not looking forward to the tie breaker scenario in the CAA

[FUBeAR]

Agreed. It's not like both divisional winners wouldn't be shoo-ins for the playoffs anyway with both as likely top-8 seeds in a 24-team tournament. Anything less than 3 at-large bids for the CAA at this point should be considered a disappointment.
What? You and CaribHen got jokes today, huh?

Lost 1 of 2 bids from last year - which was the only consistently playoff-worthy Team - and added 3 Teams with few playoff worthy seasons & fewer examples of playoff success (combined 0.133 playoff winning %)

2-1 = 1 (AQ bid only) in FUBeAR math. LeftCoastAggie must be using Common Core (2-1+0 = 4)

[WestCoastAggie]

What? You and CaribHen got jokes today, huh?

Lost 1 of 2 bids from last year - which was the only consistently playoff-worthy Team - and added 3 Teams with few playoff worthy seasons & fewer examples of playoff success (combined 0.133 playoff winning %)

2-1 = 1 (AQ bid only) in FUBeAR math. LeftCoastAggie must be using Common Core (2-1+0 = 4)

You don't see an AQ + 3 At-Large bids out this group?

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274188877_7341736632511080_5042033707272683359_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PfVy_Hip0AMAX-57K8O&tn=_FxlEVZeMoA7C6bW&_nc_ht=scontent.fatl1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8YbsjNiZjF8S0_HHyRLlrvZrVvSbtMCksvRPA0QSlW MA&oe=621C3988

[FUBeAR]

You don't see an AQ + 3 At-Large bids out this group?

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274188877_7341736632511080_5042033707272683359_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PfVy_Hip0AMAX-57K8O&tn=_FxlEVZeMoA7C6bW&_nc_ht=scontent.fatl1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8YbsjNiZjF8S0_HHyRLlrvZrVvSbtMCksvRPA0QSlW MA&oe=621C3988

Nope - I see Elon as the 2nd best Team on that list (behind Villanova) and Elon lost to the absolute worst Team in the SoCon…a Team that did not win a single SoCon game, but beat the 2nd best Team on this list.

Unless you’re ready to put all 9 SoCon Teams, including the one that went 1-10, in the Playoffs…I only see 1 Playoff Team on this list.

You ready to extend 8 At-Large Bids to the SoCon?

[MR. CHICKEN]

Nope - I see Elon as the 2nd best Team on that list (behind Villanova) and Elon lost to the absolute worst Team in the SoCon…a Team that did not win a single SoCon game, but beat the 2nd best Team on this list.

Unless you’re ready to put all 9 SoCon Teams, including the one that went 1-10, in the Playoffs…I only see 1 Playoff Team on this list.

You ready to extend 8 At-Large Bids to the SoCon?

........FOOBIE.........AH SEE.......2..............BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

You don't see an AQ + 3 At-Large bids out this group?

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274188877_7341736632511080_5042033707272683359_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PfVy_Hip0AMAX-57K8O&tn=_FxlEVZeMoA7C6bW&_nc_ht=scontent.fatl1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8YbsjNiZjF8S0_HHyRLlrvZrVvSbtMCksvRPA0QSlW MA&oe=621C3988

Yogism

The CAA is not as bad as they are right now

[Mocs123]

My take is the SoCon is top to bottom the strongest east of the Mississippi River. Even the bottom feeders in the SoCon are pretty good, but we don't have one or two teams that stand out above the rest at the top of the conference like some others do. A lot of other conferences seem to have one or two really good teams and then a bunch of bottom dwellers that aren't very good.

[MR. CHICKEN]

My take is the SoCon is top to bottom the strongest east of the Mississippi River. Even the bottom feeders in the SoCon are pretty good, but we don't have one or two teams that stand out above the rest at the top of the conference like some others do. A lot of other conferences seem to have one or two really good teams and then a bunch of bottom dwellers that aren't very good.


....SO YER BOTTOMS....ARE BETTERAH....THAN CAA BOTTOMS....BASED ON WHAT....??......AWK??

[WestCoastAggie]

My take is the SoCon is top to bottom the strongest east of the Mississippi River. Even the bottom feeders in the SoCon are pretty good, but we don't have one or two teams that stand out above the rest at the top of the conference like some others do. A lot of other conferences seem to have one or two really good teams and then a bunch of bottom dwellers that aren't very good.

With the ASun, NEC, PL, and whatever the Big South/OVC is merging into, that'll be 4 auto bids and maybe 1 at-large between the 4 most years. The CAA and SoCon will be well positioned to suck up 3-4 at-large bids yearly with the majority of those going to the CAA most of the time. That'll also leave the Big Sky and MVFC to scoop up most of the remaining at-large bids as they usually do.

[FUBeAR]

....SO YER BOTTOMS....ARE BETTERAH....THAN CAA BOTTOMS....BASED ON WHAT....??......AWK??
Nope - Mocs123456789 is tryna be nice to y’all. FUBeAR don’t care.

SoCon’s low-bottom whipped the CAA’s 2nd best Team in their own stadium.

SoCon Bottoms > CAA Tops

[FUBeAR]

The CAA and SoCon will be well positioned to suck up 3-4 at-large bids yearly with the majority of those going to the CAA most of the time.
Based on what? Cuz LeftCoastAggie sez so?

FUBeAR thinks you are confusing the concept of “Quantity” with that of “Quality.”

[NY Crusader 2010]

You don't see an AQ + 3 At-Large bids out this group?

https://scontent.fatl1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274188877_7341736632511080_5042033707272683359_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PfVy_Hip0AMAX-57K8O&tn=_FxlEVZeMoA7C6bW&_nc_ht=scontent.fatl1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8YbsjNiZjF8S0_HHyRLlrvZrVvSbtMCksvRPA0QSlW MA&oe=621C3988

When Delaware, William & Mary and UNH are all Top 25-level teams, the CAA will no doubt be a 4-bid league again. Villanova is now the flagship football program in the league.

I think this 14-team group should average at least 3 bids a year no problem.

As far as divisions, if that setup takes place, you probably flip Towson and Villanova to keep VU and UD in same division.

[FUBeAR]

When Delaware, William & Mary and UNH are all Top 25-level teams, the CAA will no doubt be a 4-bid league again.



William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
6-5


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
5-6


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
3-8



What year are we expecting the stars to align in the way you describe? Seems that these 3 need to strive to rise above, or even get to, mediocre before we start giving them Top 25 consideration.

[caribbeanhen]

William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
6-5


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
5-6


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
3-8



What year are we expecting the stars to align in the way you describe? Seems that these 3 need to strive to rise above, or even get to, mediocre before we start giving them Top 25 consideration.

Keep an eye on the Hens and remember you didn’t hear this from me

[MR. CHICKEN]

William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
6-5


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
5-6


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
3-8



What year are we expecting the stars to align in the way you describe? Seems that these 3 need to strive to rise above, or even get to, mediocre before we start giving them Top 25 consideration.


...WELL FOOB..........SEEMS FURPLE....WENT 6-5......WHIFF OWNLAH ONE PLAYOFFER....IN SOGONE.........CAA SKOOLS.....HAD TA GO AGIN'....2.......& RHODEY WAS UH BUBBLE.....AWK!

[UNHWildcat18]

William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
6-5


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
5-6


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
3-8



What year are we expecting the stars to align in the way you describe? Seems that these 3 need to strive to rise above, or even get to, mediocre before we start giving them Top 25 consideration.

Won't speak for the others but UNH will be a top 25 team and make it deeper into the playoffs than Furman or Mercer will in the next 5 years. UNH has 3 bad years and everyone just forgot we went to the playoffs 14 years in a row with 9 total quarterfinal appearances and 2 semifinal appearances. Name a Current Socon team that's been more successful since 2004 than UNH?

CAA is down yes but if you are mad about the socon being down even longer from when APP and GSU were in the league you should blame the league office

[FUBeAR]

Jeez … when the 2nd best Team in the Conference is worse than a SoCon Team that can’t beat any other Team in the SoCon, it should be pretty plain to see that, in reality, in today’s FCS world, the CAA, with the exception of Villanova, isn’t anywhere close to being competitive with the SoCon…but I guess facts, rather than “will be’s” & “once were’s” are harder to discuss & it’s easier to continue to lie to yourselves about the “quality” of CAA Football.

Seems to FUBeAR, the CAA(n’t) should be looking more toward to the PL, the NEC, or even the PFL to find their competitive benchmarks.

[UNHWildcat18]

Jeez … when the 2nd best Team in the Conference is worse than a SoCon Team that can’t beat any other Team in the SoCon, it should be pretty plain to see that, in reality, in today’s FCS world, the CAA, with the exception of Villanova, isn’t anywhere close to being competitive with the SoCon…but I guess facts, rather than “will be’s” & “once were’s” are harder to discuss & it’s easier to continue to lie to yourselves about the “quality” of CAA Football.

Seems to FUBeAR, the CAA(n’t) should be looking more toward to the PL, the NEC, or even the PFL to find their competitive benchmarks.

Just pretty weird how you are basing one game off one season as the comparison to say we can’t compete with the socon?? It started off as jokes about AQ and at large bids……. ….. also what’s with the third person talk? Did you lose a bet?

[WileECoyote06]

And it happened all because then Sophomore Tarik Cohen fumbled the ball trying to score a go ahead touchdown at the goal line late in the 4th quarter against NCCU. Tarik wrote a letter of apology to Aggies on Twitter after the game. Our losses to NCCU and Morgan State that year helped lead to that 5-way tie and a 7-4 Morgan winning the Auto-Bid on a coin flip.

Yall beat Morgan 45-0 and lost to SCSU in the ATL Football classic and NCCU. Morgan had the worst loss out of any of the five teams. We lost to them by 1 point on the road.

[Sitting Bull]

William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
6-5


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
5-6


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
3-8



What year are we expecting the stars to align in the way you describe? Seems that these 3 need to strive to rise above, or even get to, mediocre before we start giving them Top 25 consideration.

This is like a delusional parrot:

“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”

That’s your case? Sit down.

[FUBeAR]

“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”

That’s your case?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/fleischmann-wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/27233058/Tip-Pretzel-Shaping.gifhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/fleischmann-wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/27233058/Tip-Pretzel-Shaping.gifhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/fleischmann-wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/27233058/Tip-Pretzel-Shaping.gif

[MR. CHICKEN]

This is like a delusional parrot:

“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”
“We beat Elon!”

That’s your case? Sit down.

........AN' NO BULL.......IT WAS UH 2 POINT DUBBYA....ON UH 26 YD FG....4TH Q.........WHEN ELON WAS PICKED DEAD LAST BY COACHES/LINDY'S PRESEASON.......ELON GOT BETTERAH/WOFFY DUMPSTER DIVED......BUT FOOBIE...SERIOUSLY PROUD UH....DEM DOGGIES.......BRAWK!

[FUBeAR]

........AN' NO BULL.......IT WAS UH 2 POINT DUBBYA....ON UH 26 YD FG....4TH Q.........WHEN ELON WAS PICKED DEAD LAST BY COACHES/LINDY'S PRESEASON.......ELON GOT BETTERAH/WOFFY DUMPSTER DIVED......BUT FOOBIE...SERIOUSLY PROUD UH....DEM DOGGIES.......BRAWK!

FACTS…ALL ELSE IS SPIN



DATE
CAA(n’t) Team
OPPONENT / Conference
LOCATION
RESULT


9/4/2021
Elon
Wofford / SoCon
Elon, N.C.
L



2021 CAA(n’t) Football Standings w/2022 Teams


SCHOOL
CAA(n’t) CONF Games
PCT.


Villanova (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2728)
7-1
.875


Elon (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2718)
5-3
.625


Rhode Island (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2722)
4-4
.500


Maine (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2720)
4-4
.500


Richmond (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2723)
4-4
.500


William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
.500


Stony Brook (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2724)
4-4
.500


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
.375


Towson (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2725)
3-5
.375


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
.250


UAlbany (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2727)
1-7
.125


Hampton
0-0
.000


Monmouth
0-0
.000


North Carolina A&T
0-0
.000



2021 SoCon Football Standings w/ 2022 Teams


SCHOOL
SoCon CONF Games
PCT.


ETSU (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=etsu)
7-1
.875


Mercer (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=mercer)
6-2
.750


Chattanooga (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=utc)
5-3
.625


Furman (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=furman)
4-4
.500


VMI (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=vmi)
4-4
.500


Western Carolina (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wcu)
4-4
.500


Samford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=samford)
3-5
.375


The Citadel (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=citadel)
3-5
.375


Wofford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wofford)
0-8
.000

[WestCoastAggie]

I don't know if the transitive property fits here.

[FUBeAR]

I don't know if the transitive property fits here.
The best predictor of future performance is past behavior. The more recently the past behavior has occurred, the more predictive it is.

Thus…the most horrid Team in the SoCon is better than a top Team in the CAA(n’t)…and it logically follows that the other 8 Teams in the SoCon are FAR better than all of the Teams in the CAA(n’t) with the possible exception of (only) Villanova…

…et cetera et cetera...fax mentis incendium gloria culpum et cetera et cetera...memo bis punitor delicatum!

It's all there black and white clear as crystal!

Good day sir!!

[OhioHen]

The best predictor of future performance is past behavior. The more recently the past behavior has occurred, the more predictive it is.

Thus…the most horrid Team in the SoCon is better than a top Team in the CAA(n’t)…and it logically follows that the other 8 Teams in the SoCon are FAR better than all of the Teams in the CAA(n’t) with the possible exception of (only) Villanova…

…et cetera et cetera...fax mentis incendium gloria culpum et cetera et cetera...memo bis punitor delicatum!

It's all there black and white clear as crystal!

Good day sir!!

Wofford was good in week one and showed their true colors the rest of the season. Elon started slowly and improved as the season progressed, despite a tougher schedule.

Black and white, crystal clear.

[Dane96]

Facts:

Since 2000, the Southern Conference has had 1 team in the Natty, Furman in it's 2001 loss to Montana.

Since 2000, the CAA has had 10 teams in the Natty, represented 5 schools (JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and Villanova), and five national champions between four schools (Richmond, JMU, Delaware, and Villanova).

Why is this even a discussion, even with the down cycle the CAA is in right now. Pure facts, the CAA has been the more successful league in most years since 2000.

[FUBeAR]

Facts:

Since 2000, the Southern Conference has had 1 team in the Natty, Furman in it's 2001 loss to Montana.

Since 2000, the CAA has had 10 teams in the Natty, represented 5 schools (JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and Villanova), and five national champions between four schools (Richmond, JMU, Delaware, and Villanova).

Why is this even a discussion, even with the down cycle the CAA is in right now. Pure facts, the CAA has been the more successful league in most years since 2000.
https://img.japankuru.com/prg_img/img/img2018050304455325840500.gif

[ElCid]

Facts:

Since 2000, the Southern Conference has had 1 team in the Natty, Furman in it's 2001 loss to Montana.

Since 2000, the CAA has had 10 teams in the Natty, represented 5 schools (JMU, Richmond, Delaware, Towson, and Villanova), and five national champions between four schools (Richmond, JMU, Delaware, and Villanova).

Why is this even a discussion, even with the down cycle the CAA is in right now. Pure facts, the CAA has been the more successful league in most years since 2000.

Just to count the same way, you really can't count JMU anymore, or if you do, then you probably need to count GaSo and App. And if so then it's only three. Which is obviously more, but not huge. Or if you want to include now FBS teams then it's 5 to 4 champs and 10 to 5 in championship. More, but again, not huge considering the # of teams in each conf. Just saying.

[FUBeAR]

Just to count the same way, you really can't count JMU anymore, or if you do, then you probably need to count GaSo and App. And if so then it's only three. Which is obviously more, but not huge. Or if want to include now FBS teams then it's 5 to 4 champs and 10 to 5 in championship. More but again, not huge considering to # of teams in each conf. Just saying.:)

https://i2.wp.com/www.tedkennedywatson.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/img_9091.jpg

[OhioHen]

https://img.japankuru.com/prg_img/img/img2018050304455325840500.gif
So you FINALLY recognize what you've been doing with the Wofford over Elon result from September.

[FUBeAR]

Wofford over Elon

…
FACTS…ALL ELSE IS SPIN



DATE
CAA(n’t) Team
OPPONENT / Conference
LOCATION
RESULT


9/4/2021
Elon
Wofford / SoCon
Elon, N.C.
L



2021 CAA(n’t) Football Standings w/2022 Teams


SCHOOL
CAA(n’t) CONF Games
PCT.


Villanova (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2728)
7-1
.875


Elon (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2718)
5-3
.625


Rhode Island (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2722)
4-4
.500


Maine (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2720)
4-4
.500


Richmond (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2723)
4-4
.500


William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
.500


Stony Brook (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2724)
4-4
.500


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
.375


Towson (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2725)
3-5
.375


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
.250


UAlbany (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2727)
1-7
.125


Hampton
0-0
.000


Monmouth
0-0
.000


North Carolina A&T
0-0
.000



2021 SoCon Football Standings w/ 2022 Teams


SCHOOL
SoCon CONF Games
PCT.


ETSU (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=etsu)
7-1
.875


Mercer (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=mercer)
6-2
.750


Chattanooga (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=utc)
5-3
.625


Furman (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=furman)
4-4
.500


VMI (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=vmi)
4-4
.500


Western Carolina (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wcu)
4-4
.500


Samford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=samford)
3-5
.375


The Citadel (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=citadel)
3-5
.375


Wofford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wofford)
0-8
.000


……

[OhioHen]

FACTS…ALL ELSE IS SPIN



DATE
CAA(n’t) Team
OPPONENT / Conference
LOCATION
RESULT


9/4/2021
Elon
Wofford / SoCon
Elon, N.C.
L



2021 CAA(n’t) Football Standings w/2022 Teams


SCHOOL
CAA(n’t) CONF Games
PCT.


Villanova (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2728)
7-1
.875


Elon (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2718)
5-3
.625


Rhode Island (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2722)
4-4
.500


Maine (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2720)
4-4
.500


Richmond (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2723)
4-4
.500


William & Mary (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2726)
4-4
.500


Stony Brook (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2724)
4-4
.500


Delaware (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2717)
3-5
.375


Towson (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2725)
3-5
.375


New Hampshire (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2721)
2-6
.250


UAlbany (https://caasports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=2727)
1-7
.125


Hampton
0-0
.000


Monmouth
0-0
.000


North Carolina A&T
0-0
.000



2021 SoCon Football Standings w/ 2022 Teams


SCHOOL
SoCon CONF Games
PCT.


ETSU (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=etsu)
7-1
.875


Mercer (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=mercer)
6-2
.750


Chattanooga (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=utc)
5-3
.625


Furman (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=furman)
4-4
.500


VMI (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=vmi)
4-4
.500


Western Carolina (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wcu)
4-4
.500


Samford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=samford)
3-5
.375


The Citadel (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=citadel)
3-5
.375


Wofford (http://soconsports.com/index.aspx?path=wofford)
0-8
.000



Wofford was good in week one and showed their true colors the rest of the season. Elon started slowly and improved as the season progressed, despite a tougher schedule.

You are clearly cherry-picking.

[FUBeAR]

Wofford was good in week one and showed their true colors the rest of the season. Elon started slowly and improved as the season progressed, despite a tougher schedule.

You are clearly cherry-picking.
https://character.co/uploads/Work/Spin/GIFs/spin_2_brand_identity.gif

[OhioHen]

https://character.co/uploads/Work/Spin/GIFs/spin_2_brand_identity.gif
Pretty weak for the Reigning Champ of Smack. xsmiley_wix

[caribbeanhen]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg/220px-Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg)



The Southern Conference will find out in 2022 what this means

[FUBeAR]

Pretty weak for the Reigning Champ of Smack. xsmiley_wix
Takin’ it easy. Even FUBeAR has feelings.

Feels bad for CAAn’t Fans having to face the reality that their show horse galloped off the ranch and the nags that remain can’t even hang with a SoCon Team that went winless while brining up the rear in the SoCon.

That’s a tough reality to face (obviously)…so FUBeAR is sensitive to that.

[walliver]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg/220px-Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paul_McCartney_-_McCartney.jpg)



The Southern Conference will find out in 2022 what this means

The album that put the nail in the Beatles breakup will break up the CAA?

[caribbeanhen]

The album that put the nail in the Beatles breakup will break up the CAA?

You Sir are a music buff

[iBOsbu]

This is fun. Is there a win/loss data on current CAA teams vs current SoCon teams in every head to head games played last few years, may be in the last decade? That should be interesting.

[OhioHen]

NCA&T Chancellor on cost of being competitive in CAA

https://greensboro.com/sports/college/a-t-chancellor-harold-martin-on-the-cost-of-being-competitive-in-the-colonial-athletic/article_09e25076-950b-11ec-99e6-cb6d0bf80162.html

[FUBeAR]

E*Loan goin’ to the portal hoping to help one of the very best Teams in the CAAn’t close the gap & rise UP to equal the level of a winless-in-the-SoCon SoCon Team…

https://twitter.com/pigskinmatt/status/1496532067185737730

[mainejeff]

Has anyone heard anything about Bryant football? Where are they going to end up?

[WestCoastAggie]

Has anyone heard anything about Bryant football? Where are they going to end up?
It's still Big South after listening to our AD inform other A&T Alumni last night.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

NCA&T Chancellor on cost of being competitive in CAA

https://greensboro.com/sports/college/a-t-chancellor-harold-martin-on-the-cost-of-being-competitive-in-the-colonial-athletic/article_09e25076-950b-11ec-99e6-cb6d0bf80162.html

"
Q: How much per year in the athletics department budget ($15.4 million in 2019-20) would it take to achieve some of those competitive goals?




Martin: "We've got to add much more substantially to the operations of athletics: New personnel, additional coaching staff for some of these teams, additional scholarships for our teams and the new sports that we expect to add over time as well.



"It's hard to say a dollar amount, but for us to be thinking that we can compete as successfully as we want to compete with a total athletics budget of anything less than $25 million would not be reasonable.""

So let me get this straight. NCAT is going to be spending AT LEAST 75% more PER YEAR, they DON'T have the donors lined up, they DON'T have revenues lined up from ticket sales, etc., and they need massive facilities upgrades just to kind of get to CAA level. The situation is screaming to me "go into massive debt", jack up tuition/fees, or almost certainly both. Are there rules in NC on athletics fees?

[iBOsbu]

https://ncpolicywatch.com/2022/02/21/monday-numbers-a-closer-look-at-north-carolinas-thriving-hbcus/

Reading this it seems A&T will be ok.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://ncpolicywatch.com/2022/02/21/monday-numbers-a-closer-look-at-north-carolinas-thriving-hbcus/

Reading this it seems A&T will be ok.

We’re also petitioning the Board of Governors to allow a 35% enrollment cap for out of state students.

[OhioHen]

We’re also petitioning the Board of Governors to allow a 35% enrollment cap for out of state students.
What is the current cap on out-of-state students?

[WestCoastAggie]

"
Q: How much per year in the athletics department budget ($15.4 million in 2019-20) would it take to achieve some of those competitive goals?




Martin: "We've got to add much more substantially to the operations of athletics: New personnel, additional coaching staff for some of these teams, additional scholarships for our teams and the new sports that we expect to add over time as well.



"It's hard to say a dollar amount, but for us to be thinking that we can compete as successfully as we want to compete with a total athletics budget of anything less than $25 million would not be reasonable.""

So let me get this straight. NCAT is going to be spending AT LEAST 75% more PER YEAR, they DON'T have the donors lined up, they DON'T have revenues lined up from ticket sales, etc., and they need massive facilities upgrades just to kind of get to CAA level. The situation is screaming to me "go into massive debt", jack up tuition/fees, or almost certainly both. Are there rules in NC on athletics fees?

Things are going to hit overdrive in Greensboro ASAP and we could end up so many new or revamped facilities in the next 2-4 years. While we do have goals to expand Aggie (now Truist Stadium), enclosing our horseshoe and building a new Aggie Athletics complex with multiple suites), our Baseball and Softball fields will be first up to bat.

Once we move our softball stadium to the War Memorial complex, expect to hear us building out some sort of band/soccer/football practice facility between the stadium and Highway 29. Did I also forget to mention women’s soccer will be finally coming online + our swimming team could return?

Oh! And our general student body will get a new $90 million dollar wellness center, allowing us to possibly repurpose the current facility for Student Athletes on top of the Aggie Dome indoor facility for baseball, golf, and softball coming online.

I’ll know this is serious once the BBall teams get 20/7 access to our arena.

[WestCoastAggie]

What is the current cap on out-of-state students?
25% and the College of Engineering is exempt from the cap. And this year, over 20,000 students from out of state applied. This dropped our current admissions rate to about 33%, and has increased our median SAT and ACT scores. Our intent to enroll number for Fall 22 also went up as of February 8th.

[caribbeanhen]

25% and the College of Engineering is exempt from the cap. And this year, over 20,000 students from out of state applied. This dropped our current admissions rate to about 33%, and has increased our median SAT and ACT scores. Our intent to enroll number for Fall 22 also went up as of February 8th.

Do you have any CSPI students?

[WestCoastAggie]

Do you have any CSPI students?

I don't believe so. I only know of the Army and Air Force ROTC.

[caribbeanhen]

I don't believe so. I only know of the Army and Air Force ROTC.

A salute to you for knowing the program is associated with the military