Big South…Big Trouble!

[Sir William]

If Monmouth truly is CAA-bound, coupled with Kennesaw and TUNA going to the ASUN, then Big South football is in big trouble. Probably need to be in touch with SC State and NC Central to have any relevance moving forward.

[WestCoastAggie]

Big South Football this Fall???

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Hampton
NC A&T
Robert Morris

EEK! 5 privates, 2 HBCUs, and 1 Public School.

I don't think the Big South will end up inviting programs from another conference that will cause another conference to go below 6 schools. If anything, I suspect that the Big South will be in touch with a few Gulf South or SAC Schools to bolster their football membership.​

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the MEAC broke apart,

Del State, Morgan State --> NEC
Howard --> Patriot
South Carolina State, NC Central, Norfolk State --> Big South

[MR. CHICKEN]

...OR.....3 TA MEAC...3 TA SOGONE.......AWK!

[WestCoastAggie]

If the MEAC broke apart,

Del State, Morgan State --> NEC
Howard --> Patriot
South Carolina State, NC Central, Norfolk State --> Big South

But... the MEAC ISN'T breaking apart.

[Sir William]

...OR.....3 TA MEAC...3 TA SOGONE.......AWK!

Of the six current remaining, only Campbell and NC A&T would have any possible chance of a SoCon invite in the future, with A&T having the better chance of the two.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think as long as the Celebration Bowl tie-in remains, the MEAC will do whatever it can to stay intact.

[UNAPride]

I enjoyed getting to know more about the Big South over the past four seasons. But, it was a hodgepodge of football schools, obviously. Going up to NJ (NYC-basically) to play Monmouth just didn't feel very "Big South"-ish.

[ElCid]

I enjoyed getting to know more about the Big South over the past four seasons. But, it was a hodgepodge of football schools, obviously. Going up to NJ (NYC-basically) to play Monmouth just didn't feel very "Big South"-ish.

NJ=NYC? Really? Wow. I guess having grown up in Jersey I don't see it. But yeah NJ still shouldn't be Big South. Neither should PA. But Rutgers shouldn't be in the Big 10 and OK or TX schools shouldn't be in the SEC either. This entire long distance thing has hurt college football fandom across the board. Maybe not the casual fans, but the loyal fans.

[WileECoyote06]

If the MEAC broke apart,

Del State, Morgan State --> NEC
Howard --> Patriot
South Carolina State, NC Central, Norfolk State --> Big South

So leave one tenuous situation to go and save the BS? Nah. We're good.

[UNAPride]

NJ=NYC? Really? Wow. I guess having grown up in Jersey I don't see it. But yeah NJ still shouldn't be Big South. Neither should PA. But Rutgers shouldn't be in the Big 10 and OK or TX schools shouldn't be in the SEC either. This entire long distance thing has hurt college football fandom across the board. Maybe not the casual fans, but the loyal fans.

Lol. I hear ya! It's 57 miles from Monmouth University to Manhattan. But, yeah, it seems CAA would be a better fit for them if it happens.

[UNAPride]

Big South Football this Fall???

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Hampton
NC A&T
Robert Morris

EEK! 5 privates, 2 HBCUs, and 1 Public School.

I don't think the Big South will end up inviting programs from another conference that will cause another conference to go below 6 schools. If anything, I suspect that the Big South will be in touch with a few Gulf South or SAC Schools to bolster their football membership.​

That would be interesting. Several SAC schools are in great proximity to other full (Big South) members but they are all tiny private schools. North Greenville is a GSC football affiliate in the geographic footprint but, similar to the SAC, is very small. I don't think any of those schools are really looking to move to D1.

That said, one that sticks out to me as a solid D2 call-up for the Big South would be West Georgia from the GSC.

[caribbeanhen]

NJ=NYC? Really? Wow. I guess having grown up in Jersey I don't see it. But yeah NJ still shouldn't be Big South. Neither should PA. But Rutgers shouldn't be in the Big 10 and OK or TX schools shouldn't be in the SEC either. This entire long distance thing has hurt college football fandom across the board. Maybe not the casual fans, but the loyal fans.

but Staten Island is New Jersey right...

[caribbeanhen]

Lol. I hear ya! It's 57 miles from Monmouth University to Manhattan. But, yeah, it seems CAA would be a better fit for them if it happens.

Probably less than 100 miles to Newark.... not the NJ one

by the way, Delaware has offered your WR thats in the portal

[Libertine]

If Monmouth truly is CAA-bound, coupled with Kennesaw and TUNA going to the ASUN, then Big South football is in big trouble. Probably need to be in touch with SC State and NC Central to have any relevance moving forward.

<yawn> This basically describes the Big South's existence since...ever. It isn't new, just different.

[ElCid]

Lol. I hear ya! It's 57 miles from Monmouth University to Manhattan. But, yeah, it seems CAA would be a better fit for them if it happens.

To be honest, everything from about 30 miles from my house (in far NW Jersey) onward towards NYC was just referred to as "the city." About a third of the NE of the state was just yuck. Never went there or NYC very much. I'm could never figure out why they weren't invited to begin with. CAA snobbery? But I don't have room to talk with the SOCON's record.

[ElCid]

That would be interesting. Several SAC schools are in great proximity to other full (Big South) members but they are all tiny private schools. North Greenville is a GSC football affiliate in the geographic footprint but, similar to the SAC, is very small. I don't think any of those schools are really looking to move to D1.

That said, one that sticks out to me as a solid D2 call-up for the Big South would be West Georgia from the GSC.

N Greenville has a better stadium that a lot of FCS. Huge fan base as well. We had to play a game there a few years back due to hurricane evac. Only about 20 miles from my house as the crow flies.

[ElCid]

but Staten Island is New Jersey right...

I really bet they wish they were part of NJ instead of NYC.

[Mr.Loco]

Hampton is going to jump ship.

[ST_Lawson]

NJ=NYC? Really? Wow. I guess having grown up in Jersey I don't see it.

Isn't it only like an hour from NYC? That counts as "NYC-basically" in my book.


Lol. I hear ya! It's 57 miles from Monmouth University to Manhattan.

So...yeah...pretty close. Our main campus to our "satellite" campus is ~80 miles and there's people that drive that every day back and forth.

[dgtw]

<yawn> This basically describes the Big South's existence since...ever. It isn't new, just different.

Big South football has always been propped up by affiliates, hardly a sustainable model. The football members should hook up with the ASUN football members and form an all sports conference that sponsors football. Then the leftovers can get together for a non-football league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNHWildcat18]

I am surprised UNA and KSU didn't try to get into the Socon. I actually don't know why SELA didn't either. I know losing App and GSU was tough, but I always pictured the socon as the "powerhouse" or "premiere" southeastern based conference in the fcs.. They have 9 football members, so if they wanted a tenth you'd think they'd have their pick of the best southeastern fcs school on the board.

WAC Southland Big South ASUN all seem like a **** show IMO.

[Professor]

The Big South has 6 football teams. if they get under 6, then they are in trouble

[ElCid]

I am surprised UNA and KSU didn't try to get into the Socon. I actually don't know why SELA didn't either. I know losing App and GSU was tough, but I always pictured the socon as the "powerhouse" or "premiere" southeastern based conference in the fcs.. They have 9 football members, so if they wanted a tenth you'd think they'd have their pick of the best southeastern fcs school on the board.

WAC Southland Big South ASUN all seem like a **** show IMO.

Why would the SOCON want either? I'm sure it may have been considered, but to be honest they don't fit. With 3 big public's, 3 small privates, 1 big private, and 2 small public military, there is a nice balance. If we were to add any it would need to be a public and a private. And with 9 FB teams now, in my view the perfect number for FB, no need for more unless you get to 12 for divisions and 5 and 3 games in each div. Otherwise you get the flaky scheduling of the CAA, Big Sky, and MVFC.

But I don't like seeing some teams every other year. Leaves entirely too much prognosticating and chest thumping when two teams haven't met in a given year. I guess I should want it since that is how some conferences have "occasionally" gotten in more teams than they deserve. That is, by not playing ALL the tough teams in their conf.

[UNHWildcat18]

Why would the SOCON want either? I'm sure it may have been considered, but to be honest they don't fit. With 3 big public's, 3 small privates, 1 big private, and 2 small public military, there is a nice balance. If we were to add any it would need to be a public and a private. And with 9 FB teams now, in my view the perfect number for FB, no need for more unless you get to 12 for divisions and 5 and 3 games in each div. Otherwise you get the flaky scheduling of the CAA, Big Sky, and MVFC.

But I don't like seeing some teams every other year. Leaves entirely too much prognosticating and chest thumping when two teams haven't met in a given year. I guess I should want it since that is how some conferences have "occasionally" gotten in more teams than they deserve. That is, by not playing ALL the tough teams in their conf.


I agree with you on conference size. I think above 10 is just a waste at this level.

[ElCid]

I agree with you on conference size. I think above 10 is just a waste at this level.

If we were to add anyone without much thought, it would be Richmond and W&M, to bring them back into the fold. But as neither of them is interested, it's a non starter. It has be over 40 years since they left.

Campbell is an option. They seem to be on a good track. So if we found a public along with them, that would work.

[WestCoastAggie]

The Big South has 6 football teams. if they get under 6, then they are in trouble

Luckily, the 5 full-time members are happy for right now and Robert Morris doesn't really have a home due to being out in Western Pennsylvania. Big South Football will be okay with 6.

My only concern is that A&T is the only public school in that fold. Do we really fit in?

[Professor Chaos]

WAC Southland Big South ASUN all seem like a **** show IMO.
And don't forget about the OVC... some conference consolidation could do a lot of good.

[caribbeanhen]

If we were to add anyone without much thought, it would be Richmond and W&M, to bring them back into the fold. But as neither of them is interested, it's a non starter. It has be over 40 years since they left.

Campbell is an option. They seem to be on a good track. So if we found a public along with them, that would work.

Well The CAA is headed south so you never know

[caribbeanhen]

And don't forget about the OVC... some conference consolidation could do a lot of good.

The Bison must be shaking in their boots with all these pathetic conferences

FCS is becoming more unwatchable overall

[UNHWildcat18]

And don't forget about the OVC... some conference consolidation could do a lot of good.

Yeah tell me about it, schools have just thrown geography, history, insitutional fit, etc out the window it seems like. as messed up as the FBS now, FCS has a lot of just thrown together hodge podge conferences as well.

[ElCid]

Yeah tell me about it, schools have just thrown geography, history, insitutional fit, etc out the window it seems like. as messed up as the FBS now, FCS has a lot of just thrown together hodge podge conferences as well.

That's why I like the SOCON makeup in geography, institutions, history. Furman, Wofford, The Citadel, VMI have all been playing each other for nearly, and over 100 years. And WCU, UTC, and ETSU for near on 50. Only Samford and Mercer don't have long history even if we played Mercer back the 1920s and 30s. Not that history is required, but it is valuable.

[Professor Chaos]

The Bison must be shaking in their boots with all these pathetic conferences

FCS is becoming more unwatchable overall
Hopefully it will at least make more sense to people when the Big Sky and the MVFC (and maybe the CAA too someday) pick up 80-90% of the playoff at-large bids when we have so many 6 team conferences out there getting autobids.

Heard that the Big Sky commish was recently plugging playoff expansion to 32 teams in an interview he gave before the championship... now that made me queasy but we'll be at 12 autos next year with the WAC and ASUN and that's the most we can have with a 24 team field. Hopefully consolidating conferences can bring that autobid number back down and put to rest any notion that playoff expansion is necessary.

[kdinva]

That's why I like the SOCON makeup in geography, institutions, history. Furman, Wofford, The Citadel, VMI have all been playing each other for nearly, and over 100 years. And WCU, UTC, and ETSU for near on 50. Only Samford and Mercer don't have long history even if we played Mercer back the 1920s and 30s. Not that history is required, but it is valuable.

This........SoCon is fine as is, members-wise. Longest trip is 9-1/2 hours, VMI to Sammy

[UNHWildcat18]

Hopefully it will at least make more sense to people when the Big Sky and the MVFC (and maybe the CAA too someday) pick up 80-90% of the playoff at-large bids when we have so many 6 team conferences out there getting autobids.

Heard that the Big Sky commish was recently plugging playoff expansion to 32 teams in an interview he gave before the championship... now that made me queasy but we'll be at 12 autos next year with the WAC and ASUN and that's the most we can have with a 24 team field. Hopefully consolidating conferences can bring that autobid number back down and put to rest any notion that playoff expansion is necessary.

Like we used to xthumbsupx but really though I'm sad to see the CAA(outside JMU) slip the last 5 years.

Also the number of new conferences and autos is so annoying as you stated. Leaving a lot less for at large bids. Good thing that non scholarship Pioneer league gets to call themselves D1 and win an autobid every year...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Like we used to xthumbsupx but really though I'm sad to see the CAA(outside JMU) slip the last 5 years.

Also the number of new conferences and autos is so annoying as you stated. Leaving a lot less for at large bids. Good thing that non scholarship Pioneer league gets to call themselves D1 and win an autobid every year...

Big Sky teams hate it because they keep losing to the PFL winners!

[ElCid]

Hopefully it will at least make more sense to people when the Big Sky and the MVFC (and maybe the CAA too someday) pick up 80-90% of the playoff at-large bids when we have so many 6 team conferences out there getting autobids.

Heard that the Big Sky commish was recently plugging playoff expansion to 32 teams in an interview he gave before the championship... now that made me queasy but we'll be at 12 autos next year with the WAC and ASUN and that's the most we can have with a 24 team field. Hopefully consolidating conferences can bring that autobid number back down and put to rest any notion that playoff expansion is necessary.

If they ever try to expand further, it may be the begining of the end. No need to. We have 128 or so teams. Why even play the season if 1 in 4 teams get to make the playoffs? 1 in 5 is too many. I'm still a firm believer in auto bids. Everyone deserves a shot. All a team has to do is win their conf and they get a shot. Like the bowls games from hell, expansion does nothing but cheapen the process.

[Sir William]

If they ever try to expand further, it may be the begining of the end. No need to. We have 128 or so teams. Why even play the season if 1 in 4 teams get to make the playoffs? 1 in 5 is too many. I'm still a firm believer in auto bids. Everyone deserves a shot. All a team has to do is win their conf and they get a shot. Like the bowls games from hell, expansion does nothing but cheapen the process.
Agree with you. I’d be in favor of moving it back to 20, with autobids to conference champs, and also putting a conference at-large cap at 2.

[Professor Chaos]

If they ever try to expand further, it may be the begining of the end. No need to. We have 128 or so teams. Why even play the season if 1 in 4 teams get to make the playoffs? 1 in 5 is too many. I'm still a firm believer in auto bids. Everyone deserves a shot. All a team has to do is win their conf and they get a shot. Like the bowls games from hell, expansion does nothing but cheapen the process.
And a good chunk of those 128 have no/very little interest in the playoffs with the Ivy, MEAC, and SWAC teams.

[ElCid]

And a good chunk of those 128 have no/very little interest in the playoffs with the Ivy, MEAC, and SWAC teams.

Yup, so make it 100 teams roughly. So change my ciphering to 1 in 3 and 1 in 4. Ridiculous.

[taper]

In my fantasy world the playoffs are 16 teams, all seeded regardless of geography. All conferences must send their auto bid or they're not FCS. Before anyone says you need as many at large as autos, that's not true. Men's rugby doesn't. Simple rule change at the same time you do all the rest.

[ElCid]

In my fantasy world the playoffs are 16 teams, all seeded regardless of geography. All conferences must send their auto bid or they're not FCS. Before anyone says you need as many at large as autos, that's not true. Men's rugby doesn't. Simple rule change at the same time you do all the rest.

Exactly. Rules are created and rules can be changed. 16 is perfect. Except I think there are 15 conferences now. With at least two, maybe 3 ready to fold so we are talking 4 at larges at most. I can live with that.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....BIZONSSS CRUSH....#2 THRU #16.....SO WHAA IS IT NECESSARY...TA START WHIFF #16........AWK?

[ElCid]

....BIZONSSS CRUSH....#2 THRU #16.....SO WHAA IS IT NECESSARY...TA START WHIFF #16........AWK?


Won't take as long?

[WestCoastAggie]

So if Campbell decides to make the move to the CAA, what should the Big South do?

1. Pursue a SAC or Gulf South School to join as a full member
2. Pursue another MEAC program to join as a full member
3. Drop football all together and allow football playing members to move football to another conference
4. look at Youngstown State as a Football Associate
5. Do nothing
6. Panic

[ElCid]

So if Campbell decides to make the move to the CAA, what should the Big South do?

1. Pursue a SAC or Gulf South School to join as a full member
2. Pursue another MEAC program to join as a full member
3. Drop football all together and allow football playing members to move football to another conference
4. look at Youngstown State as a Football Associate
5. Do nothing
6. Panic

I'm thinking they would sit tight for at least a full season if they drop below 6 while searching for "anyone" in hopes of getting someone. But after that they drop football if unsuccessful. Pretty sure a couple teams would be left out in the cold as independents.

[walliver]

Many of the current Big South members have nowhere else to go. CSU and Gardner Webb are not attractive to the SoCon or CAA. I don’t see the SoCon expanding unless there is a stellar opportunity.

The most viable “move up”, West Georgia, would be a better fit in the new A-Sun.

I suspect the Big South tried to cobble together a 6 team conference. A few years from now, when the NCAA reconstitutes itself, the landscape may be much different.

[WestCoastAggie]

So if Campbell decides to make the move to the CAA, what should the Big South do?

1. Pursue a SAC or Gulf South School to join as a full member
2. Pursue another MEAC program to join as a full member
3. Drop football all together and allow football playing members to move football to another conference
4. look at Youngstown State as a Football Associate
5. Do nothing
6. Panic
Replace Campbell with Hampton. WOW!

[caribbeanhen]

Replace Campbell with Hampton. WOW!

Valdosta St
W Florida

[solohawks]

With 14 team conferences becoming the norm and the MEAC on the brink of collapse with Howard to the CAA, the Big South adding Norfolk St, NC Central, and SC State makes a ton of sense

Big South Football would be stable with
Norfolk St, NC A&T, NC Central, SC State, Gardner Webb, Campbell, and Charleston Southern

Robert Morris would be welcome to stay along with any MEAC teams in need of a football home

The all sports conference would be
Big South North
Radford, Longwood, Norfolk St, NC A&T, High Point, NC Central, Campbell

Big South South
Charleston Southern, Presbyterian, USC Upstate, Winthrop, SC State, Gardner Webb, UNC Asheville

[Mocs123]

The Big South is in trouble.
The OVC is in trouble
The A-Sun is boarderline
The Southland is boarderline
(Not to mention the MEAC)

It seems to me that we have one too many conferences and teams should reorganize and into the 3 best fit geographical conferences and let the fourth one wither away.

[ElCid]

The Big South is in trouble.
The OVC is in trouble
The A-Sun is boarderline
The Southland is boarderline
(Not to mention the MEAC)

It seems to me that we have one too many conferences and teams should reorganize and into the 3 best fit geographical conferences and let the fourth one wither away.

Yeah but, and I may be viewing it wrong, why would some of these teams leave other teams behind and them welcome them into just a different conf. Why did they leave in the first place? Was it the conf admin or some of the teams in that conf? I know that there are many reasons to move, but not liking the current makeup of your conf is one of them.

[NY Crusader 2010]

My prediction is amongst the Southland / OVC / A-Sun / Big South mess you could possibly see two mega-conferences formed. Either that or 3 conferences with some DII call ups.

MEAC IMO will stand pat as long as it can. They always could try and beg Winston-Salem and Savannah State or one of the DII HBCU's like Tuskegee to move up to (or back to) DI if push came to shove.

[Friday I'm in Love]

MEAC IMO will stand pat as long as it can. They always could try and beg Winston-Salem and Savannah State or one of the DII HBCU's

But they've been trying to do this for the past 18 months and no one's biting. WSSU AD publicly commented they're not interested, VSU studied it and nothing came of it, etc. They could probably get Chicago St to join, but they're screwed if more schools beyond Howard leave.

[taper]

My prediction is amongst the Southland / OVC / A-Sun / Big South mess you could possibly see two mega-conferences formed. Either that or 3 conferences with some DII call ups.

MEAC IMO will stand pat as long as it can. They always could try and beg Winston-Salem and Savannah State or one of the DII HBCU's like Tuskegee to move up to (or back to) DI if push came to shove.
Mega conferences from these guys at the moment is going to cost them playoff spots. Assuming they all get to 6+ members and an AQ, that's 4 teams in plus maybe 1-2 at larges. Merge into 2 megas and you get 2 AQ and those same 1-2 at larges.

[WestCoastAggie]

Mega conferences from these guys at the moment is going to cost them playoff spots. Assuming they all get to 6+ members and an AQ, that's 4 teams in plus maybe 1-2 at larges. Merge into 2 megas and you get 2 AQ and those same 1-2 at larges.

Just how valuable are those playoff spots when FCS is really about cost containment for football on the Division 1 level?

[WestCoastAggie]

But they've been trying to do this for the past 18 months and no one's biting. WSSU AD publicly commented they're not interested, VSU studied it and nothing came of it, etc. They could probably get Chicago St to join, but they're screwed if more schools beyond Howard leave.

Those other schools would have to be wanted. Besides Howard to the CAA or Patriot League, I can only think of the NEC courting Delaware State. That’s it. The other programs in the MEAC besides those two would only get invited by D2 CIAA. 🤷🏿*♂️

[KPSUL]

Lol. I hear ya! It's 57 miles from Monmouth University to Manhattan. But, yeah, it seems CAA would be a better fit for them if it happens.

Yeah but in the Northeast 57 miles can sometimes be a two day car trip.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Yeah but in the Northeast 57 miles can sometimes be a two day car trip.


.......YOU DRIVE UH......PINTO...??......BRAWK?

[aceinthehole]

Those other schools would have to be wanted. Besides Howard to the CAA or Patriot League, I can only think of the NEC courting Delaware State. That’s it. The other programs in the MEAC besides those two would only get invited by D2 CIAA. 🤷🏿*♂️

I could see the NEC interested in a pair of MEAC schools - DSU and Morgan State. That would give the NEC 12 basketball schools and 10 for football. Baltimore is a good market for the league, would provide DSU an HBCU rival and fills in the gap between Mt. St. Mary's and the rest of the league.

[Professor Chaos]

Just how valuable are those playoff spots when FCS is really about cost containment for football on the Division 1 level?
Agreed, being in a 6 team league is nice for autobid purposes but not only are you on the borderline to qualify for an autobid you also have to figure out 6 OOC games each year which is a pain in the ass. It's really in the best interests of these league schools to stabilize their conference even if it means they've got 8 or 9 teams to compete with for an autobid instead of 5 or 6.

[WestCoastAggie]

Agreed, being in a 6 team league is nice for autobid purposes but not only are you on the borderline to qualify for an autobid you also have to figure out 6 OOC games each year which is a pain in the ass. It's really in the best interests of these league schools to stabilize their conference even if it means they've got 8 or 9 teams to compete with for an autobid instead of 5 or 6.

Conversely, would consolidation balloon travel costs as the country wraps their mind around inflationary prices as we come out of the pandemic?

[Panther88]

Not understanding why The Mecca continues to be brought up in these type conversations. As an alum, I will aggressively attempt to influence other alums that leaving The MEAC is never an option, considering the current level of support and non-investment in athletics, specifically football. It makes no cents (budgeting) and makes no sense to leave. HU is conjoined with MSU, DSU, CSU (non-football), et al at the same financial & regional level regarding athletics.

[WileECoyote06]

Not understanding why The Mecca continues to be brought up in these type conversations. As an alum, I will aggressively attempt to influence other alums that leaving The MEAC is never an option, considering the current level of support and non-investment in athletics, specifically football. It makes no cents (budgeting) and makes no sense to leave. HU is conjoined with MSU, DSU, CSU (non-football), et al at the same financial & regional level regarding athletics.

Howard has a completely different ethos than Hampton. If Howard wanted to be in the CAA under the current circumstances, they would have already accepted an invitation.

The MEAC has already hit its "hurdle" and is moving forward with clearer vision. We are in a better position than we were in June 2020.

Our shared purpose and cultural ties are an extremely strong bond, and now that travel is not the budget-busting noose that it was in past years; it's going to take more than panic to dissolve the MEAC.

.

[Friday I'm in Love]

Matt Brown has been hearing Howard will end up in CAA, along with Monmouth, Fairfield, Stony Brook, & Hampton.

[Professor]

If Howard leaves the MEAC for the CAA that would be interesting

[HootyHoo]

Why would the SOCON want either? I'm sure it may have been considered, but to be honest they don't fit. With 3 big public's, 3 small privates, 1 big private, and 2 small public military, there is a nice balance. If we were to add any it would need to be a public and a private. And with 9 FB teams now, in my view the perfect number for FB, no need for more unless you get to 12 for divisions and 5 and 3 games in each div. Otherwise you get the flaky scheduling of the CAA, Big Sky, and MVFC.

But I don't like seeing some teams every other year. Leaves entirely too much prognosticating and chest thumping when two teams haven't met in a given year. I guess I should want it since that is how some conferences have "occasionally" gotten in more teams than they deserve. That is, by not playing ALL the tough teams in their conf.

Translation: The SOCON doesn’t want KSU to dominate the conference like App St and Ga Southern did for decades. The little private schools:VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Mercer know they can’t compete with the Owls. don’t bring up academics either, KSU is a WAY better academic institution than Southern and is comparable with App St.

[kdinva]

.... The little private schools: VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Mercer

just for clarity: VMI and The Citadel are State-supported.....

[HootyHoo]

just for clarity: VMI and The Citadel are State-supported.....

The point stands. The SOCON has no excuses to not invite KSU. I’ve seen people suggest Campbell. Seriously? You’d rather have Campbell than KSU? Why? Because Campbell is a small private school that doesn’t threaten the status quo in the conference. Which is mediocrity.

[ElCid]

Translation: The SOCON doesn’t want KSU to dominate the conference like App St and Ga Southern did for decades. The little private schools:VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Mercer know they can’t compete with the Owls. don’t bring up academics either, KSU is a WAY better academic institution than Southern and is comparable with App St.

Actually Mercer is a big private at about 9k. Samford is small private, with about 3600 undergrads. Wofford is smallest private. May be the smallest school in all of Div I football. If not they are close at around 1600-1700. VMI, as a public school, is really small as well. I think they at 1600-1700. The Citadel, as a public school, is a little bigger at 2300-2400 undergrad. You really don't know much about these schools, do you?

And that's not the reason. The reason is to have a balance and not be dominated by one or the other when it comes to conf policies, strategy, etc. And football isn't the only sport champ.

[ElCid]

The point stands. The SOCON has no excuses to not invite KSU. I’ve seen people suggest Campbell. Seriously? You’d rather have Campbell than KSU? Why? Because Campbell is a small private school that doesn’t threaten the status quo in the conference. Which is mediocrity.

It goes much deeper than that bucko. Or do you just view everything in light of how good a football team might be? But as I said, if we were to add it would be a balanced add.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The point stands. The SOCON has no excuses to not invite KSU. I’ve seen people suggest Campbell. Seriously? You’d rather have Campbell than KSU? Why? Because Campbell is a small private school that doesn’t threaten the status quo in the conference. Which is mediocrity.

You do realize that Furman, VMI, and The Citadel have been in the Southern Conference for decades, right? During that time they've competed with (among others) the original ACC schools, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, East Carolina, Marshall, etc.

The notion that those schools would be concerned about Kennesaw State's gridiron potential, or unwilling to accept some sort of challenge in that area, is ludicrous.

I don't think you understand the point of a conference. Admittedly, the same could possibly be said for the CAA's leadership...

[Friday I'm in Love]

MBB is important to the SoCon, whose NET has ranked 10th and 12th last year and this year.

Kennesaw St has been a perennial 300+ school in MBB. Last year, their NET was 334.

KSU MBB has improved into the top-200 this year, but it’ll take some years sustaining that to undo the string of 300+ years.

[caribbeanhen]

Matt Brown has been hearing Howard will end up in CAA, along with Monmouth, Fairfield, Stony Brook, & Hampton.

What about Motel 6

[WestCoastAggie]

Matt Brown has been hearing Howard will end up in CAA, along with Monmouth, Fairfield, Stony Brook, & Hampton.

Matt’s been pretty spot on too. Conversely, even if Howard does leave, it won’t doom the conference as long as the Celebration Bowl is still around.

Time will tell but most Alumni won’t know what’s happening until a press conference occurs.

[WestCoastAggie]

What about Motel 6

What’s the gripe about these teams joining the CAA in your opinion?

[WestCoastAggie]

You do realize that Furman, VMI, and The Citadel have been in the Southern Conference for decades, right? During that time they've competed with (among others) the original ACC schools, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, East Carolina, Marshall, etc.

The notion that those schools would be concerned about Kennesaw State's gridiron potential, or unwilling to accept some sort of challenge in that area, is ludicrous.

I don't think you understand the point of a conference. Admittedly, the same could possibly be said for the CAA's leadership...

To be objective, Hampton does fit the academic profile of the schools in the CAA and joining means they will be pumping $$$ into Athletics in order to compete.

[WestCoastAggie]

I could see the NEC interested in a pair of MEAC schools - DSU and Morgan State. That would give the NEC 12 basketball schools and 10 for football. Baltimore is a good market for the league, would provide DSU an HBCU rival and fills in the gap between Mt. St. Mary's and the rest of the league.

Even if Howard leaves, I still don’t see the MEAC folding with a 7 full members and 5 football schools.

[aceinthehole]

Even if Howard leaves, I still don’t see the MEAC folding with a 7 full members and 5 football schools.

Clearly that is possible - the remaining MEAC members try to hang on and add to their membership. IMO, if Howard leaves, I see the NEC making a play for DSU and Morgan, while the Big South looks to add Norfolk St., NC Central, and SC State.

Sure, the MEAC teams can try to make it on their own, but I would think the NEC and Big South would offer more stability and better schedules/travel for the remaining members.

I think Coppin State and UMES would have more difficulty finding a new home, which may be a reason for the MEAC teams to stay together.

[Dane96]

Howard has been approached many times from the CAA, and declined. I don't see them saying yes now. Matt Brown hasn't always been in the know. Not sure if he is now or not, this seems to be a stretch.

[Panther88]

Howard has been approached many times from the CAA, and declined. I don't see them saying yes now. Matt Brown hasn't always been in the know. Not sure if he is now or not, this seems to be a stretch.
No interest in the CAA. That is Harvey's and HamptonU's lustful desire.

[caribbeanhen]

What’s the gripe about these teams joining the CAA in your opinion?

Hampton

Fairfield

Stony Brook Inn

I chimed in with Motel 6 😆

[WestCoastAggie]

Hampton

Fairfield

Stony Brook Inn

I chimed in with Motel 6 

Ha! Good one!

[caribbeanhen]

Ha! Good one!

Hotel

Motel

Holiday Inn

name that tune

[WestCoastAggie]

Hotel

Motel

Holiday Inn

name that tune

“If your girl starts acting up/then you take her friend.”

I guess this could be a good quote for conference realignment.

[DFW HOYA]

Hotel, Motel, Holiday Inn...

"If your girl starts acting up, then you take her friend."

[caribbeanhen]

“If your girl starts acting up/then you take her friend.”

I guess this could be a good quote for conference realignment.

Well that one was too easy

[Friday I'm in Love]

Matt Brown has been hearing Howard will end up in CAA, along with Monmouth, Fairfield, Stony Brook, & Hampton.

This author is hearing Howard is expected to stay in MEAC.
https://richmond.com/sports/college/richmond/in-remodeling-without-jmu-caa-focuses-on-hampton-monmouth-stony-brook/article_660497f0-4a63-584e-9e13-241eda8b8ef9.html

[Panther88]

This author is hearing Howard is expected to stay in MEAC.
https://richmond.com/sports/college/richmond/in-remodeling-without-jmu-caa-focuses-on-hampton-monmouth-stony-brook/article_660497f0-4a63-584e-9e13-241eda8b8ef9.html

xlolx lol

[The Cats]

The point stands. The SOCON has no excuses to not invite KSU. I’ve seen people suggest Campbell. Seriously? You’d rather have Campbell than KSU? Why? Because Campbell is a small private school that doesn’t threaten the status quo in the conference. Which is mediocrity.

Two things: 1) I thought the ASUN was going to challange the MVFC with KSU and UNA as members - why would KSU be interested in the SoCon anyway? 2) The SoCon does not need an excuse not to invite KSU, it hasn't invited any of the ASUN or BS or OVC teams either, there might be some interest for some of the old SoCon teams now in the CAA, to come back home....

[CockyGeek]

How many football members does that leave the Big South? Will they even last the year?

[Sir William]

How many football members does that leave the Big South? Will they even last the year?

There are also rumors that Hampton is headed to CAA with Monmouth. If so, that leaves 5.

[WileECoyote06]

There are also rumors that Hampton is headed to CAA with Monmouth. If so, that leaves 5.

Not rumors. July 1st.

[WestCoastAggie]

How many football members does that leave the Big South? Will they even last the year?

4 full members + 1 associate (Robert Morris).

Oddly enough, And the A-Sun will be at 6 football playing members by July 1 2023.

I suppose Robert Morris could join the OVC as an associate member and the Big South programs could merge with the A-Sun members to form a new Football conference managed by the A-ASun. 🤷🏿*♂️

[HootyHoo]

MBB is important to the SoCon, whose NET has ranked 10th and 12th last year and this year.

Kennesaw St has been a perennial 300+ school in MBB. Last year, their NET was 334.

KSU MBB has improved into the top-200 this year, but it’ll take some years sustaining that to undo the string of 300+ years.

4 wins in a row for the Owls. Prepare yourselves. HMFH.

[ElCid]

So it's a done deal now. With Monmouth and Hampton out, the Big South...just went south in regard to their auto bid. Still time to recover at least one team, but who?

Or do they fold football. But where do CSU, Campbell, Gardner-Webb, RMU, and NCA&T go? Does A&T go back to their former home? Do they go to the OVC? Does RMU try and go back to NEC for football only? Or more likely OVC? CSU, G-W, and Campbell have little choice unless one of them is still a CAA Target. Campbell is the only one likely there. Or would they all be looking to join/rejoin the ASUN. Campbell and G-W are former members. Were bridges burned? Would the current/new members even want them? I could also see Campbell as a possible SOCON member but have no idea if any contact has been made.

Or will the Big South just sit tight for a year longer in hopes of snagging a Div II.

With the way schools are being picked off, it almost seems like conferences are trying to get as many teams as they can to ward off losing their autobid, or to gain one. That is, by having a nice buffer of disposable teams. And that is being done at the expense of their actual long term stability. The Big South is the poster child for this. They have become the revolving door.

And that leads to a topic I have not heard mentioned at all. Sure, conferences are made up of schools, but the admin of these conferences have an agenda that is not necessarily the same as the member schools. They are a bureaucratic type organization that is keen on self preservation. I don't know the extent, but how much guidance and direction influence do they have in regard to strategic planning? I honestly don't know the actual power/influence these organizations have.

[WestCoastAggie]

So it's a done deal now. With Monmouth and Hampton out, the Big South...just went south in regard to their auto bid. Still time to recover at least one team, but who?

Or do they fold football. But where do CSU, Campbell, Gardner-Webb, RMU, and NCA&T go? Does A&T go back to their former home? Do they go to the OVC? Does RMU try and go back to NEC for football only? Or more likely OVC? CSU, G-W, and Campbell have little choice unless one of them is still a CAA Target. Campbell is the only one likely there. Or would they all be looking to join/rejoin the ASUN. Campbell and G-W are former members. Were bridges burned? Would the current/new members even want them? I could also see Campbell as a possible SOCON member but have no idea if any contact has been made.

Or will the Big South just sit tight for a year longer in hopes of snagging a Div II.

With the way schools are being picked off, it almost seems like conferences are trying to get as many teams as they can to ward off losing their autobid, or to gain one. That is, by having a nice buffer of disposable teams. And that is being done at the expense of their actual long term stability. The Big South is the poster child for this. They have become the revolving door.

And that leads to a topic I have not heard mentioned at all. Sure, conferences are made up of schools, but the admin of these conferences have an agenda that is not necessarily the same as the member schools. They are a bureaucratic type organization that is keen on self preservation. I don't know the extent, but how much guidance and direction influence do they have in regard to strategic planning? I honestly don't know the actual power/influence these organizations have.

I believe it's important to look at Big South Basketball/Olympic Sports separate from Big South Football. On the Basketball front, the conference is still very stable with 11 teams in a very tight footprint between NC, SC, and VA. That's a huge benefit for A&T and it's admin who really want to put a cap on travel expenses.

[aceinthehole]

Big South and NEC may have to merge for football AQ and split into divisions.

NEC is now at 10 members (8 for football w/ Duquesne) but America East and MAAC are probably lurking for new members from the NEC.

All 4 of the top NEC candidates for the AE have football - CCSU, Bryant, Merrimack, LIU

3 of the 4 top NEC candidates for the MAAC also have football - Wagner, Mt. St. Mary's, Sacred Heart, and Saint Francis (PA)

Today, the NEC football AQ is keeping the league together, but that could change if multiple schools get approached by the AE and MAAC.

[solohawks]

NC Central taking Hampton's slot makes a lot of sense to me. They may take Norfolk and SC State too and go to 14

The AEast is going to be down to 8 and will likely need to expand, probably with NEC schools. If they take an NEC schools with football like CCSU or Merrimack, those schools will need to park their football in the Big South like Monmouth did

[mainejeff]

NC Central taking Hampton's slot makes a lot of sense to me. They may take Norfolk and SC State too and go to 14

The AEast is going to be down to 8 and will likely need to expand, probably with NEC schools. If they take an NEC schools with football like CCSU or Merrimack, those schools will need to park their football in the Big South like Monmouth did

Or they can remain in the NEC as associate members in football.

[ElCid]

I believe it's important to look at Big South Basketball/Olympic Sports separate from Big South Football. On the Basketball front, the conference is still very stable with 11 teams in a very tight footprint between NC, SC, and VA. That's a huge benefit for A&T and it's admin who really want to put a cap on travel expenses.

That's true. When we talk about confs those distinctions get lost. But I was mostly talking football alignment. Those football teams need a stable home. They don't have one. While the schools may remain, their football teams will either be adopted as associates or drive the train for all sports in moving. Personally I really dislike the entire associate thing as a concept, but I don't get a say.

[solohawks]

Or they can remain in the NEC as associate members in football.

In the past the NEC has drawn a hard line of no for schools departing and wanting to stay for football

[mainejeff]

In the past the NEC has drawn a hard line of no for schools departing and wanting to stay for football

True....but they may not have a choice this time.

[aceinthehole]

True....but they may not have a choice this time.

Its not that easy MJ. You could argue, that the NEC denying affiliate football membership to Monmouth and RMU is what is keeping the NEC as a conference alive today.

If the NEC lets CCSU join the AE and keep football in the NEC; what is stopping Bryant from joining the AE too? Then Wagner can also join the MAAC with Mt. St. Mary's (a non football school).

By opening up a FB-only option to departing schools, what is keeping them in the NEC for basketball and holding the league together?

The NEC could easily lose a total of 4 schools to the AE and MAAC and only have 1 realistic replacement (New Haven). The NEC would be at 7 schools total if that happened.

Unless Howard leaves the MEAC, to destabilize that conference allowing the NEC to get Delaware State and Morgan State, the NEC members have to be united in denying affiliate football membership to ANYONE that leaves.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Big South and NEC may have to merge for football AQ and split into divisions.

NEC is now at 10 members (8 for football w/ Duquesne) but America East and MAAC are probably lurking for new members from the NEC.

All 4 of the top NEC candidates for the AE have football - CCSU, Bryant, Merrimack, LIU

3 of the 4 top NEC candidates for the MAAC also have football - Wagner, Mt. St. Mary's, Sacred Heart, and Saint Francis (PA)

Today, the NEC football AQ is keeping the league together, but that could change if multiple schools get approached by the AE and MAAC.

The MAAC isn't going for SFU. They will be going for a metro school. Not a school in the middle of nowhere that has been living off Maurice Stokes for 70 years.

If they are smart, they take FDU and LIU for basketball.

[aceinthehole]

The MAAC isn't going for SFU. They will be going for a metro school. Not a school in the middle of nowhere that has been living off Maurice Stokes for 70 years.

If they are smart, they take FDU and LIU for basketball.

IMO - Wagner and Mount St. Mary's are the best NEC schools for the MAAC.

[The Cats]

Translation: The SOCON doesn’t want KSU to dominate the conference like App St and Ga Southern did for decades. The little private schools:VMI, The Citadel, Furman, Mercer know they can’t compete with the Owls. don’t bring up academics either, KSU is a WAY better academic institution than Southern and is comparable with App St.

according to US News college rankings:

Appalachian State University's 2022 Rankings (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/appalachian-state-2906/overall-rankings)Appalachian State University is ranked #6 in Regional Universities South (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south). Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence.



#6
inRegional Universities South (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south)
#2
inBest Colleges for Veterans (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south/veterans)
#2
inBest Undergraduate Teaching (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south/undergraduate-teaching)

​

Kennesaw State University's 2022 Rankings (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/kennesaw-state-university-1577/overall-rankings)Kennesaw State University is ranked #299-#391 in National Universities (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities). Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence.



#299-#391
inNational Universities (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities)
#37
inBest Undergraduate Teaching (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching)
#153
inTop Performers on Social Mobility (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/social-mobility)

[walliver]

The thing about the Big South being in trouble, is that Big South football seems to always be on the cusp of failure. And somehow it always seems to recover.

At this point, I don't see how they will do it, but it wouldn't surprise me if they make it through this.

The best solution to me, although very unlikely, would be for the Southland, OVC, A-Sun and Big South to work together to form 2-3 football-only leagues. The large public schools could have their "MVFC-South" league, and the others could have two geographically arranged leagues. I suspect it is unworkable, however.

[WestCoastAggie]

I'm hearing that a partnership between the ASun and Big South is definitely possible.

[HootyHoo]

according to US News college rankings:

Appalachian State University's 2022 Rankings (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/appalachian-state-2906/overall-rankings)Appalachian State University is ranked #6 in Regional Universities South (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south). Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence.



#6
inRegional Universities South (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south)
#2
inBest Colleges for Veterans (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south/veterans)
#2
inBest Undergraduate Teaching (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-south/undergraduate-teaching)

​

Kennesaw State University's 2022 Rankings (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/kennesaw-state-university-1577/overall-rankings)Kennesaw State University is ranked #299-#391 in National Universities (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities). Schools are ranked according to their performance across a set of widely accepted indicators of excellence.



#299-#391
inNational Universities (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities)
#37
inBest Undergraduate Teaching (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching)
#153
inTop Performers on Social Mobility (tie) (https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/social-mobility)






Yes you just made my point. App St isn’t even on the National university list.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yes you just made my point. App St isn’t even on the National university list.

National vs regional is not a sole qualifier. Loyola (MD) is deemed a regional institution by USNWR but is "good enough" to be accepted into the Patriot League fraternity.

[The Cats]

Yes you just made my point. App St isn’t even on the National university list.

I see why you attended KSU, you don't even know the difference between a national university and a regional university, it has NOTHING to do with academics...

Regional accreditation of a university is based upon location while national accreditation is not region specific, and there is nothing to suggest that national universities are any better or more important than regional universities.

Regional University

There are 6 regional agencies spread across the country that are involved in the task of accreditation of colleges and universities. These are Middle State, New England, North Central, Northwest, Southern, and Western Association of Schools and Colleges. Colleges and universities can apply for regional accreditation with the agency that falls in its area or region. Once the institution gets accreditation, it is labeled as a regional university. The most popular regional universities in the country are University of Phoenix, UCLA, Harvard, and the Ohio state university. Regional universities have a wide range of bachelor level degree programs; some masters level degree programs, and very few doctoral programs.


National University

National accreditation can be obtained by a university located in any part of the country, and it is not region specific. Colleges and universities opt for national accreditation when they feel that their mode of education is different from the traditional or the regional flavor, and they are fit to be compared with similar colleges or universities across the country on the basis of their system of instruction or the content of the courses offered. These are also colleges that are hard to fit into the molds that are conceived by regional accreditation agencies. Whatever the reason, if a college or university does not apply for accreditation from the 6 regional agencies, it can apply for accreditation from the national agency.

[walliver]

I see why you attended KSU, you don't even know the difference between a national university and a regional university, it has NOTHING to do with academics...

Regional accreditation of a university is based upon location while national accreditation is not region specific, and there is nothing to suggest that national universities are any better or more important than regional universities.

Regional University

There are 6 regional agencies spread across the country that are involved in the task of accreditation of colleges and universities. These are Middle State, New England, North Central, Northwest, Southern, and Western Association of Schools and Colleges. Colleges and universities can apply for regional accreditation with the agency that falls in its area or region. Once the institution gets accreditation, it is labeled as a regional university. The most popular regional universities in the country are University of Phoenix, UCLA, Harvard, and the Ohio state university. Regional universities have a wide range of bachelor level degree programs; some masters level degree programs, and very few doctoral programs.


National University

National accreditation can be obtained by a university located in any part of the country, and it is not region specific. Colleges and universities opt for national accreditation when they feel that their mode of education is different from the traditional or the regional flavor, and they are fit to be compared with similar colleges or universities across the country on the basis of their system of instruction or the content of the courses offered. These are also colleges that are hard to fit into the molds that are conceived by regional accreditation agencies. Whatever the reason, if a college or university does not apply for accreditation from the 6 regional agencies, it can apply for accreditation from the national agency.

Your response dealt with accreditation. The US News rankings are based on classification, a completely different idea. Most schools, including the Ivies, are accredited by regional organizations.

In the US News classifications (similar to the Carnegie Classification, you are classified by what you do, not how well you do it. To US News, the distinction between "national" and "regional" is based on how may PhD's you give out.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/rankings-faq#:~:text=U.S.%20News%20collapses%20the%20Carneg ie,%2C%20South%2C%20Midwest%20and%20West.

At one time, Georgia Southern has the highest Carnegie Classification in the SoCon ... but we all looked down on them. Awarding PhD's really has little influence on undergraduate education.

[DFW HOYA]

Harvard is not a regional university, enough said.

UCLA is not a regional university either, even though half of its students come from SoCal. As a public university with 85% in state residents and a branch campus of UC-Berkeley, that's to be expected.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Your response dealt with accreditation. The US News rankings are based on classification, a completely different idea. Most schools, including the Ivies, are accredited by regional organizations.

In the US News classifications (similar to the Carnegie Classification, you are classified by what you do, not how well you do it. To US News, the distinction between "national" and "regional" is based on how may PhD's you give out.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/rankings-faq#:~:text=U.S.%20News%20collapses%20the%20Carneg ie,%2C%20South%2C%20Midwest%20and%20West.

At one time, Georgia Southern has the highest Carnegie Classification in the SoCon ... but we all looked down on them. Awarding PhD's really has little influence on undergraduate education.

Good post!

He did post something relevant to "regionality" but not in the context we're talking about! I gave him a bit too much credit but to be fair, I was at work and simply took it as definitions without reading...oops...

[The Cats]

Harvard is not a regional university, enough said.

UCLA is not a regional university either, even though half of its students come from SoCal. As a public university with 85% in state residents and a branch campus of UC-Berkeley, that's to be expected.

You better look it up, you're wrong!!!

read this (if you can read) and weep!!!!! https://accreditation.yale.edu/frequently-asked-questions

All the schools I listed are regional universities....


The University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) is accredited by the WASC Senior College and University Commission (WSCUC), the regional accrediting agency serving higher education institutions in California, Hawaii, and the Pacific Region.

http://wscuc.ucla.edu/#:~:text=The%20University%20of%20California%2C%20L os%20Angeles%20%28UCLA%29%20is,institutions%20in%2 0California%2C%20Hawaii%2C%20and%20the%20Pacific%2 0Region.

[DFW HOYA]

You better look it up, you're wrong!!!

read this (if you can read) and weep!!!!! https://accreditation.yale.edu/frequently-asked-questions

All the schools I listed are regional universities....

Most major schools are regionally accredited per the nature of higher education (e.g., Georgetown is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education) but accreditation is independent of focus.

Schools that seek national accreditation often do so because of problems securing regional accreditation.

https://www.edsmart.org/regional-vs-national-accreditation/

Let's not get deep into semantics here. Academic accreditation does not equal academic reach.

[ElCid]

Sorry to say, but this is just a silly issue. All this is just meaningless when it comes down to how well students are actually educated and prepared for a profession. Especially undergrads. There are effective regional schools by whatever definition you want to use, and there are not so good schools. Same for national ones, again by whatever definition anyone wants to latch onto.

[Bisonoline]

Sorry to say, but this is just a silly issue. All this is just meaningless when it comes down to how well students are actually educated and prepared for a profession. Especially undergrads. There are effective regional schools by whatever definition you want to use, and there are not so good schools. Same for national ones, again by whatever definition anyone wants to latch onto.

https://i.imgur.com/kd2ztvs.jpg

[WileECoyote06]

Leaning into the USNWR rankings is problematic enough.

[Libertine]

There's thread drift and then there's whatever this has turned into.

[WestCoastAggie]

So...

When's that ASun/Big South partnership going to be announced?

[SDFS]

So...

When's that ASun/Big South partnership going to be announced?

So is the ASun still looking to go FBS for did that ship sail when LU and JSU went cUSA? If A-Sun is staying FCS long term. The following conferences working together seems logical:

OVC (5)/A-SUN (5) and Big South (5)/MEAC (6) - that would stabilize most of the FCS conferences for a short period of time.

[WestCoastAggie]

So is the ASun still looking to go FBS for did that ship sail when LU and JSU went cUSA? If A-Sun is staying FCS long term. The following conferences working together seems logical:

OVC (5)/A-SUN (5) and Big South (5)/MEAC (6) - that would stabilize most of the FCS conferences for a short period of time.

I think that ship sailed when Jacksonville State bailed for Conference-USA. I won't be surprised if one or two programs from that partnership follow suit.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There's thread drift and then there's whatever this has turned into.

I agree! As a PL (and lesser extent Ivy) fan, the less you can worry about "academic differences" the better. Granted, you have to draw the line somewhere but here its semantics. This is a big picture situation....

[Libertine]

So is the ASun still looking to go FBS for did that ship sail when LU and JSU went cUSA?

An FBS ASUN was a crack pipe dream that Liberty was never going to be any part of in the first place.

[walliver]

I always saw the ASUN as an attempt to create a "Southern MVFC" with nothing but larger public regional universities. There may have been hopes of FBS, but that didn't really seem to be the point.

After the last few months activity, I don't think either goal is achievable.

[UNAPride]

So...

When's that ASun/Big South partnership going to be announced?


The ASUN will also be at 5 in 2023. So, maybe an AQ10 of ASUN and Big South? Similar to the WAC/ASUN Challenge in 2021. Or will the ASUN add schools with football soon?

I'm just not sure what the Big South will do for 2022. Waiver?

I don't see the ASUN and OVC working out. Too much bad blood between the schools that just left along the UNA snub by them a decade ago.

I'm fine with UNA staying ASUN for a long while but the chatter on certain other message boards has alumni from several ASUN schools wanting to go FBS. But, not as the ASUN. To already exciting conferences like C-USA and Sun Belt.

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/cturner291/status/1486727638731280385

[UNAPride]

https://twitter.com/cturner291/status/1486727638731280385

This is what I've been keeping an eye on. From this article:

In reality, such is the environment of NCAA college athletics today. Div. I athletics and the NCAA have been described as “fractured,” with realignment and jockeying for position at a feverish pace. Some have opined that the situation is untenable. (https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/20/ncaa-future-power-5-football-basketball-money)The NCAA just completed its 2022 convention in Indianapolis and some sports experts are saying the system is on the verge of being torn up from its root.

Links to this recent article: https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/20/ncaa-future-power-5-football-basketball-money

[Professor]

Gonna be interesting how it plays out. Once the new rules are placed , you will see more movements

[Professor]

I don't think the Big South is dead just yet. football wise

[ElCid]

I don't think the Big South is dead just yet. football wise

Maybe not, but it's on life support.

[Sir William]

Rumor via another thread that Bryant could end up in Big South. I seriously doubt it, but I’ll play along and say ok. Would show that the BS is even in more trouble than previously thought, and would likely see Chucky South and GWebb eventually end up in ASUN, as that conference is also desperate for members, but seemingly more stable(?).

Truthfully, Chuck and Webb should probably consider dropping down to D2 at some point and joining the Gulf South or SAC.

Or the Big South should be making generous overtures to Lenoir Rhyne, North Greenville, Valdosta State or West Georgia to move up to D1 and join them.

But Bryant to the Big South? Wow. Change the name of the conference, because it would be neither Big nor South.

[Libertine]

But Bryant to the Big South? Wow. Change the name of the conference, because it would be neither Big nor South.

Dude, where y'all been?

The Big South has only existed as a football conference since 2002 and has maintained a roster of six schools or less for thirteen of those twenty years. It's only been at 8+ members for the last three years. Also, before Monmouth, there was Stony Brook (Long Island, NY) and an invitation to Albany so adding Bryant would, frankly, be par for the course in the Big South.

[walliver]

Rumor via another thread that Bryant could end up in Big South. I seriously doubt it, but I’ll play along and say ok. Would show that the BS is even in more trouble than previously thought, and would likely see Chucky South and GWebb eventually end up in ASUN, as that conference is also desperate for members, but seemingly more stable(?).

Truthfully, Chuck and Webb should probably consider dropping down to D2 at some point and joining the Gulf South or SAC.

Or the Big South should be making generous overtures to Lenoir Rhyne, North Greenville, Valdosta State or West Georgia to move up to D1 and join them.

But Bryant to the Big South? Wow. Change the name of the conference, because it would be neither Big nor South.

The stated goal of the ASun was to spin off a conference of large public schools. Although I think that was always a pipe dream, Gardner Webb and North Charleston Southern are unlike anyone in the A-Sun. If things are desperate enough, the A-Sun could take in football affiliates I guess.

As for D2 move-ups, only North Greenville and Lenoir-Rhyne would be good fits geographically for full membership.

[Mocs123]

The A- Sun was an ambitious plan that fell on it's face when Chattanooga told them no and JSU bolted for C-USA. There are some good schools in the A-Sun, like KSU, Austin Peay, UCA, and EKU, but I think they sort of jumped the gun putting it together with only 80% of the plan in place.

The A-Sun, Big South, OVC, Southland, and WAC are all scrambling to survive.

[Libertine]

Truthfully, Chuck and Webb should probably consider dropping down to D2 at some point and joining the Gulf South or SAC.

Or the Big South should be making generous overtures to Lenoir Rhyne, North Greenville, Valdosta State or West Georgia to move up to D1 and join them.

I think that scholarship football is ultimately unsustainable at Chuck South, regardless of the division, so I would be more surprised to see them drop down than I would if they dropped the sport entirely. Gardner-Webb doesn't want to go back to D2 but I can see them being dragged kicking and screaming into the Pioneer.

As for the others, Lenoir-Rhyne is an old money charter member of the SAC and, philosophically, would be a much better fit in the Patriot League -- which isn't going to happen either -- than the Big South.

At one time, NGU was actively looking to build up to D1. I don't know if that's still the case but the fact of being yet another private, religious school in South Carolina hasn't helped their cause and there's been the sense lately that the Big South feels they can do better (which, in fairness, they HAVE done better but three years ago feels like a decade at this point). If I'm Kyle Kallander, I'm scrambling through my old contacts for the Crusaders' phone number, you know, just to catch up.

Valdosta is not going anywhere. Valdosta loves being a whale in the D2 pond and there would have to be a major change of mindsets on the part of not just administration and coaches but also the VSU donors for the Blazers to even consider moving up.

I don't know the first thing about West Georgia but, from all exteriors, they look like a prime candidate for expansion for the ASUN, Big South or OVC. The fact that we don't hear more noise about them moving to D1 indicates to me that there is something else going on politically or behind the scenes there that might make a move problematic.

[UNAPride]

Valdosta is not going anywhere. Valdosta loves being a whale in the D2 pond and there would have to be a major change of mindsets on the part of not just administration and coaches but also the VSU donors for the Blazers to even consider moving up.

I don't know the first thing about West Georgia but, from all exteriors, they look like a prime candidate for expansion for the ASUN, Big South or OVC. The fact that we don't hear more noise about them moving to D1 indicates to me that there is something else going on politically or behind the scenes there that might make a move problematic.

Five months back, Pete Thamel tweeted that VSU and UWG were being vetted by the ASUN. Of course, this was before the announced departure of LU and JSU. But, there were rumors as recently as last week about Queens being announced soon. Who knows about the others. I still hold out hope for more GSC folks to move up! Some good competition and fan support with several of them.

Source: After adding Austin Peay, the ASUN is exploring more schools. They are vetting Valdosta State, West Georgia, Lincoln Memorial (TN) and Queens University (NC). They could add a mix of football and non-football schools to eventually reach 16 schools.

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1438847018672304132?s=20&t=E96gVL5aWbtjl-BY08KYqw

[WestCoastAggie]

The A- Sun was an ambitious plan that fell on it's face when Chattanooga told them no and JSU bolted for C-USA. There are some good schools in the A-Sun, like KSU, Austin Peay, UCA, and EKU, but I think they sort of jumped the gun putting it together with only 80% of the plan in place.

The A-Sun, Big South, OVC, Southland, and WAC are all scrambling to survive.

From what I am learning, this is going to be a wild next few weeks.

[Panther88]

Instability city in those conferences. (BS, CAA)

Full commitment to FBS by NCA&T, is it a more realistic goal, since there is so much conference instability abound?

[dbackjon]

From what I am learning, this is going to be a wild next few weeks.


Congrats on the CAA Invite!

[WestCoastAggie]

Congrats on the CAA Invite!

Thanks!

[unknown3]

Instability city in those conferences. (BS, CAA)

Full commitment to FBS by NCA&T, is it a more realistic goal, since there is so much conference instability abound?

CAA isn't unstable at all now. Big South is though. And without a waiver or a conference invite, FBS isn't even in the conversation for now. FBS to go where? Sunbelt is out, AAC is out, MAC is out, MWC is out.... only conference that may consider it would be CUSA and that would make no sense. Even with a waiver to move up, Liberty basically had to buy their way into a CUSA conference that was all but dead. It only worked for them because they had unlimited bread to pay P5 teams to come to their stadium. A&T is better off in the CAA than that. Had they been ready during the last re-alignment it wouldn't be as far fetched.

[solohawks]

Thanks!

Looking forward to having another Southern schools in the CAA

[MR. CHICKEN]

Instability city in those conferences. (BS, CAA)

Full commitment to FBS by NCA&T, is it a more realistic goal, since there is so much conference instability abound?

....OWNLAH...THING....UNSTABLE....IN CAA...DUH VIEWS.....UH WOBBLY POSTERS........AWK!

[Laker]

Big South & OVC to associate for football in 2023

Big South Conference and OVC Announce Football Agreement; Unique Association to Benefit All Football Members - Ohio Valley Conference (ovcsports.com) (http://ovcsports.com/news/2022/2/22/big-south-conference-and-ovc-announce-football-agreement.aspx)

[DFW HOYA]

With this agreement, the smallest football conferences are now the MEAC (6), Patriot (7), and NEC (7 if Bryant leaves).

[WestCoastAggie]

With this agreement, the smallest football conferences are now the MEAC (6), Patriot (7), and NEC (7 if Bryant leaves).

How many football playing members will the ASun have?

[DFW HOYA]

How many football playing members will the ASun have?

I guess it's six as well, unless someone else is coming over.

Austin Peay St.
Central Arkansas
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville St.
Kennesaw St.
North Alabama


Anyone else?

[ElCid]

Good Lord. Who's on first?

I guess this kind of thing is bound to happen every couple decades, but the shuffling is downright confusing.

[dgtw]

I guess it's six as well, unless someone else is coming over.

Austin Peay St.
Central Arkansas
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville St.
Kennesaw St.
North Alabama


Anyone else?

Jax State is gone in 2023 and not playoff eligible in 2022.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

I guess it's six as well, unless someone else is coming over.

Austin Peay St.
Central Arkansas
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville St.
Kennesaw St.
North Alabama


Anyone else?The South Central Louisiana State University Mud Dogs are transitioning to the ASun very soon.

[Mocs123]

By my count a lot of conferences are in trouble.

Big South – 5
OVC – 5 ( I know they are bringing up a D2)
A-Sun – 5
Southland – 5
WAC - 5
NEC – 6
MEAC - 6

[aceinthehole]

Northeast Conference (NEC) has 7 teams until an official announcement is made:

1. Bryant
2. Central Connecticut
3. Duquesne (A-10)
4. Long Island
5. Merrimack
6. Saint Francis
7. Wagner

[WestCoastAggie]

Northeast Conference (NEC) has 7 teams until an official announcement is made:

1. Bryant
2. Central Connecticut
3. Duquesne (A-10)
4. Long Island
5. Merrimack
6. Saint Francis
7. Wagner

More calls will be made or have been made to NE-10 schools, I suppose.

[aceinthehole]

More calls will be made or have been made to NE-10 schools, I suppose.

So far New Haven is the only NE-10 school that has publicly announced an interest in moving up to D-I, but other could also be quietly exploring a possible move.

Marist (MAAC/Pioneer) also remains an option, but they have previously declined an interest in joining the NEC for football. They sped less $$$ as a non-scholly even with the PFL travel costs. I wonder if they may rethink that issue. The NEC doesn’t have a scholarship/grant minimum, but they would likely have to spend a lot more than they do now just to be competitive in the NEC.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Northeast Conference (NEC) has 7 teams until an official announcement is made:

1. Bryant
2. Central Connecticut
3. Duquesne (A-10)
4. Long Island
5. Merrimack
6. Saint Francis
7. Wagner

Where did Sacred Heart go?

- - - Updated - - -


More calls will be made or have been made to NE-10 schools, I suppose.

You are giving the NEC office too much credit.

[aceinthehole]

Where did Sacred Heart go?

- - - Updated - - -



You are giving the NEC office too much credit.

Brain fart ... You are correct, the NEC has 8 teams until further notice.

1. Bryant
2. Central Connecticut
3. Duquesne (A-10)
4. Long Island
5. Merrimack
6. Sacred Heart
7. Saint Francis
8. Wagner

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Brain fart ... You are correct, the NEC has 8 teams until further notice.

1. Bryant
2. Central Connecticut
3. Duquesne (A-10)
4. Long Island
5. Merrimack
6. Sacred Heart
7. Saint Francis
8. Wagner

Don't get me wrong, I am fine with SHU leaving. Haha

Of course, they would just be replaced with another NE school.

[caribbeanhen]

Iona Gales ?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Only football school left in the NE-10 that would likely have DI interest is Bentley. I could see LeMyone also being a consideration for all sports.

[Laker]

Only football school left in the NE-10 that would likely have DI interest is Bentley. I could see LeMyone also being a consideration for all sports.

I thought that New Haven was thinking about moving up.

[ST_Lawson]

By my count a lot of conferences are in trouble.

Big South – 5
OVC – 5 ( I know they are bringing up a D2)
...


I think the Big South and OVC are going to be ok now. It looks like that agreement between the two is more of a full "merger" of their football programs, making it a separate football-only conference with teams from both.
Plus, it looks likely that Lindenwood (currently DII, St. Louis area) is going to announce that they're moving up and probably joining the OVC.

https://twitter.com/LU_Lions/status/1496301887854981120

[DubG]

If Monmouth truly is CAA-bound, coupled with Kennesaw and TUNA going to the ASUN, then Big South football is in big trouble. Probably need to be in touch with SC State and NC Central to have any relevance moving forward.

Would love West Georgia and Valdosta to be brought to to the Big South together.

[Mocs123]

I'm not sure about West Georgia, but from what I understand Valdosta is happy in D2 (winning championships) and isn't interested in having to go through Fargo, ND to win their next NC.

[SpartanLegion]

Valdosta State and North Dakota State would be a fun game to watch.