Monmouth to the CAA?

[katss07]

Lots of rumors going around that the CAA is in fact looking to replace James Madison and it seems as if Monmouth is going to be the addition. In fact, Daniel Steenkamer of Hero Sports flat out reported that the move to the CAA is imminent.

This kind of move (JMU leaving, CAA adds MU) has been a rumor for a while, but mostly just with the realignment nerds on internet forums and on social media. I think there was some expectation that they'd just stay put at 11 and reap the benefits of having one less member in an already large conference. We'll see what happens in the next few days.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If people had listened to me for the last decade, Monmouth would be in the Patriot League, would have been more stable and might even have rivaled the CAA for Eastern Supremacy (once they listened to me and allowed redshirting). Instead, Monmouth will head to the CAA and keep the CAA on top while the Patriot League struggles to answer the question as to what they are in the FCS landscape.

[kdinva]

Does Monmouth have the land, and will they raise the $$$$ to increase stadium capacity to 9,000+?

[KPSUL]

Lots of rumors going around that the CAA is in fact looking to replace James Madison and it seems as if Monmouth is going to be the addition. In fact, Daniel Steenkamer of Hero Sports flat out reported that the move to the CAA for football only is imminent.

This kind of move (JMU leaving, CAA adds MU) has been a rumor for a while, but mostly just with the realignment nerds on internet forums and on social media. I think there was some expectation that they'd just stay put at 11 and reap the benefits of having one less member in an already large conference. We'll see what happens in the next few days.

The only advantage to adding Monmouth as a 12th team is that the CAA could logically go to a two Division, 12-team conference. Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook and Monmouth in the North, Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Bill & Mary, Richmond and Elon in the South (or Mid-Atlantic if you prefer) The fact that Delaware demands they get an annual butt-whupping from Villanova has prevented splitting the conference into two divisions in the past.

[WestCoastAggie]

Lots of rumors going around that the CAA is in fact looking to replace James Madison and it seems as if Monmouth is going to be the addition. In fact, Daniel Steenkamer of Hero Sports flat out reported that the move to the CAA for football only is imminent.

This kind of move (JMU leaving, CAA adds MU) has been a rumor for a while, but mostly just with the realignment nerds on internet forums and on social media. I think there was some expectation that they'd just stay put at 11 and reap the benefits of having one less member in an already large conference. We'll see what happens in the next few days.

https://twitter.com/DanSteenkamer/status/1481319027368673291

[katss07]

The only advantage to adding Monmouth as a 12th team is that the CAA could logically go to a two Division, 12-team conference. Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook and Monmouth in the North, Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Bill & Mary, Richmond and Elon in the South (or Mid-Atlantic if you prefer) The fact that Delaware demands they get an annual butt-whupping from Villanova has prevented splitting the conference into two divisions in the past.
Did not realize UD was the reason the CAA is not split into divisions right now, interesting.

[WestCoastAggie]

Big South Football this Fall???

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Hampton
NC A&T
Robert Morris

EEK! 5 privates, 2 HBCUs, and 1 Public School.

[KPSUL]

Does Monmouth have the land, and will they raise the $$$$ to increase stadium capacity to 9,000+?

I didn't know the CAA had such a rule on stadium size. Albany, URI and Richmond don't have that many seats.

[UNHWildcat18]

I didn't know the CAA had such a rule on stadium size. Albany, URI and Richmond don't have that many seats.

I believe it was 8k so both have that capacity. URI was grandfathered in.

[KPSUL]

Did not realize UD was the reason the CAA is not split into divisions right now, interesting.

2009 and earlier, the CAA did have 12 teams and two Divisions. In 2010 the conference dropped to 10 teams and merged into one 10 team conference. For several year after that the CAA was a revolving door of teams coming and going until 2014 when Elon joined the conference making it the same composition until JMU's departure was announced. Actually it s the Villanova / Delaware "Rivalry" that has likely prevented a two division CAA for the last 7 years. Both teams must consider it an issue - I'm just picking on the Blue Hens.

[UNHWildcat18]

Losing 25k Bridgforth stadium and adding 4k half a stadium Monmouth program with not a huge following.......... Why does the CAA feel it needs to ****ing expand? 11 teams works just fine IMO. **** the divisions. Only more competition for recruiting as well.

Not to be mean to the few Monmouth posters here that are super nice. I am just truly against adding them.

Also CAA football schedule didn't get releases till February last year so I doubt its a reason why they haven't yet.

[NHwildEcat]

2 divisions would make sense, maybe keep everyone happy for a little bit.

[Sader87]

Two divisions do make a lot of sense....might open up more "open dates" for PL/Ivy schools depending on how it's done.

I have to kinda laugh at the "attendance/stadium" requirements. Have people not been going to FCS games in the Northeast the last 10-20 years?

[MR. CHICKEN]

The only advantage to adding Monmouth as a 12th team is that the CAA could logically go to a two Division, 12-team conference. Maine, UNH, URI, Albany, Stony Brook and Monmouth in the North, Villanova, Delaware, Towson, Bill & Mary, Richmond and Elon in the South (or Mid-Atlantic if you prefer) The fact that Delaware demands they get an annual butt-whupping from Villanova has prevented splitting the conference into two divisions in the past.


....WE LIVE NEXT DOOR TA EACH OTHERAH.......HOW IS IT...WE WERE PREVENTIN'.....DIVISIONS...??....BRAWK??

[Sitting Bull]

Monmouth joining the CAA for football only provides nothing to the conference.

The CAA should be adding 3 new all sports members, 2 preferably from the southern market. The addition of Monmouth only makes sense if it is all sports.

[Sir William]

On behalf of the SoCon, I’d like to officially invite Richmond and William & Mary back.

Ok Elon, you can come back too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think during the last expansion round someone in CAA circles (maybe anonymously) mentioned Monmouth's stadium size as an impediment to them joining the CAA. Kessler is a beautiful stadium but it is pretty tiny.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExVA-MEXEAAEdbG.jpg

When I went there a few years ago it looked possible to me to at least put stands on the other side. Their media room, used jointly with basketball, is stellar FWIW.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I think during the last expansion round someone in CAA circles (maybe anonymously) mentioned Monmouth's stadium size as an impediment to them joining the CAA. Kessler is a beautiful stadium but it is pretty tiny.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExVA-MEXEAAEdbG.jpg

When I went there a few years ago it looked possible to me to at least put stands on the other side. Their media room, used jointly with basketball, is stellar FWIW.

....BARBIE/KEN ....STADIUM......COMPLETE WHIFF....TINY BEER CUPS...AN' TOY HOT DOGS.......GOLF KART...TA HAUL KEN'S INJURED A$$.....BACK TA NURSE BARBIE..........AWK!

[DFW HOYA]

Two divisions do make a lot of sense....might open up more "open dates" for PL/Ivy schools depending on how it's done.

Patriot League schools need fewer, not more Ivy opponents.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Patriot League schools need fewer, not more Ivy opponents.


I think he meant more opportunities for CAA teams to schedule PL/Ivy opponents. Don't think it'll make a difference. The CAA plays an 8-game conference schedule now, with each team skipping 2 of the other 10. With divisions, they'd probably stay at 8 conference games => 5 division games + 3/6 from the other division.

There was a stretch in the early 2000's where the CAA played a NINE game conference schedule IIRC. I didn't like it. I was a William & Mary fan then -- those couple of years, the non-conference was the I-A opponent, VMI (still an annual series then) and no room for anyone else.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Monmouth as a football-only seems unnecessary, unless there's some kind of agreement for them to join in all-sports in a few years. Monmouth is "hosting" the MAAC tournament this March as it is being held at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City. Supposedly the MAAC is in negotiations to extend this deal so perhaps they are leaning on Monmouth not to remain in the league for a few years?

CAA for all-sports is 150% a complete upgrade over the MAAC.

Again, the CAA is in need of adding all-sports members as it is already chock full of football affiliates. The only affiliate I'd add if I were the CAA would be UMASS.

[Professor]

Big South Football this Fall???

Campbell
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Hampton
NC A&T
Robert Morris

EEK! 5 privates, 2 HBCUs, and 1 Public School.

I like this. We just gotta keep Robert Morris happy

[NY Crusader 2010]

RMU has nowhere to go unless they get invited to the Patriot League or the MEAC, and chances of either or slim to none. They left the NEC for the Horizon League in all other sports -- as we learned from how they treated Monmouth, the NEC doesn't let you stay in football if you leave the conference in all other sports. So going back there is not an option.

[NY Crusader 2010]

If people had listened to me for the last decade, Monmouth would be in the Patriot League, would have been more stable and might even have rivaled the CAA for Eastern Supremacy (once they listened to me and allowed redshirting). Instead, Monmouth will head to the CAA and keep the CAA on top while the Patriot League struggles to answer the question as to what they are in the FCS landscape.

Monmouth asked into the Patriot League around 2013, when the NEC kicked them out. Obviously, TPTB in Lehigh Valley didn't give them the time of day.

If I'm Monmouth today and the PL called with an invite, I'd laugh and hang up the phone.

LFN -- I'm with you though. Back around that time, I thought that the PL should've seriously considered Monmouth and Bryant. MU a major up-and-coming school across the board despite not having the raw academic prowess of our group. And Bryant has a great business school. Everyone I've ever met that graduated from there is doing really well for themselves. I never liked the additions of Loyola and BU, especially BU. And I wish we could send American back to the CAA.

[clenz]

RMU has nowhere to go unless they get invited to the Patriot League or the MEAC, and chances of either or slim to none. They left the NEC for the Horizon League in all other sports -- as we learned from how they treated Monmouth, the NEC doesn't let you stay in football if you leave the conference in all other sports. So going back there is not an option.
Summit League decides to split off and you could see the MVC 6, plus YSU, come for RMU as the 8th

[KPSUL]

....WE LIVE NEXT DOOR TA EACH OTHERAH.......HOW IS IT...WE WERE PREVENTIN'.....DIVISIONS...??....BRAWK??

You guys are both in the middle of the conference region. In 2014 The obvious solution would be to put Nova, which is slightly to the north in with the 5 northern teams and Delaware in the south with the other 5. However, the teams made it clear that they needed to play a conference game against one another every season - that's a no can do if you want a balanced schedule in a two division conference unless the teams were in the same division. A possible solution would have been to have Towson drive passed Newark and Philly on their way to playing a majority of their away conference games up North every season. You'd have to assume Towson wouldn't accept that plan. Who knows, maybe maintaining the rivalry was just a red herring for Nova and Delaware and they were more concerned about having to play up North too frequently as well.

32381

[Libertine]

Kessler is a beautiful stadium but it is pretty tiny.

When I went there a few years ago it looked possible to me to at least put stands on the other side.

There's no chance you could put stands on the far side of Kessler without it being a giant headache for somebody. Just beyond the bottom of the picture you posted is the rest of the track that surrounds the field and at the edge of that is a chain link fence separating Kessler from the school tennis courts and basketball parking. Monmouth is entirely landlocked by residential streets so relocating tennis would require either a feat of engineering or dropping the sport, while cutting parking for basketball -- Monmouth is first and foremost a basketball school -- probably won't fly with some of the donors.

[DFW HOYA]

Temporary seats could be added on the track or in the end zone adjacent to the arena.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temporary seats could be added on the track or in the end zone adjacent to the arena.

Temporary seating vs permanent seating is really dicey when it comes to ADA and insurance considerations. Especially, when it comes to football (a football stadium) which is often the largest attended event on campus. It's easier to "work around" those concerns at a college baseball/softball field....

[DFW HOYA]

Temporary seating vs permanent seating is really dicey when it comes to ADA and insurance considerations. Especially, when it comes to football (a football stadium) which is often the largest attended event on campus. It's easier to "work around" those concerns at a college baseball/softball field....

Georgetown had 40 years of temporary seating, and even that may have been generous.

The largest temporary seats I've seen was at Northeastern:
https://repository.library.northeastern.edu/downloads/neu:192705?datastream_id=thumbnail_5

[MR. CHICKEN]

Georgetown had 40 years of temporary seating, and even that may have been generous.

....IS PERMANENT SEATIN'.........AWK!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Georgetown had 40 years of temporary seating, and even that may have been generous.

There's "temporary bleachers" and there's "temporary seating" that is brought in for certain occasions. My comment was in reference to the latter. Some facilities are literally built using "temp bleachers."; Georgetown and many high school stadiums come to mind. The old Nazareth Speedway and Walt Disney Speedway utilized temporary wooden/steel frame bleachers as "permanent seating" for several years.

If Monmouth does join the CAA i am interested to see how they handle their stadium situation. Given the current trend in Northeast football they're probably "ok". Even so, they still might want to show some level of enhanced commitment by doing something to increase capacity/amenities....

[Libertine]

I'm really curious as to why the CAA would want Monmouth right now. In basketball, Monmouth is a big upgrade in NET ranking over JMU but also would have been so last year and any time in recent memory. Meanwhile, in football, JMU leaves a void that Monmouth won't even come close to filling other than filling a slot in the schedule. Sure, Monmouth is a bus-ride game for UD, Towson, Nova, etc., but it's not like those schools were hurting for manageable travel games in the first place and if that's a concern, again, Monmouth could have been invited at any point before. If the CAA is looking at Monmouth's market area, metro NJ is obviously an upgrade over Harrisonburg but Monmouth barely moves the needle in their own town and having the Hawks as members hasn't exactly done the Big South any favors in terms of exposure either.

So, what's changed? Why is the CAA suddenly interested in Monmouth when they weren't before?

[Sitting Bull]

I believe the CAA is interested in adding all sports members, which would include football. In the current footprint, Monmouth is one of the better options to add in that vein. And for future stability, I think the CAA needs all sport members, not affiliates.

As has been mentioned, the CAA really doesn’t have to add anyone. They have 11 in football, 9 for all sports. There’s no urgency to expand and there’s no concern on any shifts out right now.

[UNHWildcat18]

I believe the CAA is interested in adding all sports members, which would include football. In the current footprint, Monmouth is one of the better options to add in that vein. And for future stability, I think the CAA needs all sport members, not affiliates.

As has been mentioned, the CAA really doesn’t have to add anyone. They have 11 in football, 9 for all sports. There’s no urgency to expand and there’s no concern on any shifts out right now.

I agree completely on expansion. If they are looking at Monmouth its for all sports, and while I could care less if they played other sports in the CAA, but that bid would have some bull**** to allow them to join CAAFB which is what I'm very against.

[BigBlueMU]

The relationship between Monmouth and ESPN might be what the CAA wants the most in this deal. In either case of a football only or all sports move to CAA, I would think the ESPN relationship is in play somehow.

[NY Crusader 2010]

That a vintage shot of Northeastern's field, probably mid-90's or earlier. The way I used to describe their stadium was that Northeastern plays their home games at Brookline High School's field.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My semi-informed impression is that the CAA would LOVE to add Monmouth for hoops, but the football stadium capacity was one of its major negatives.

But Monmouth really belongs in a 63 scholarship, redshirting, no-artificial-roster-limit Patriot League. The fact that the PL won't budge on these dealbreakers for such an obvious fit like Monmouth is troubling but not surprising based on its history.

As great as Monmouth would be in football for the PL, it's what it would bring to the league in basketball that should make the PL presidents stop and think.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The "Monmouth to the PL" ship has sailed.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The "Monmouth to the PL" ship has sailed.

Yes. The PL have almost driven Monmouth and the CAA into a shotgun wedding.

[Sitting Bull]

Per a solid source:

AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:
Anyway, I can confirm the original Monmouth rumor...hearing this is actually for all sports. This is part of a much larger expansion plan that would bring the CAA to 14 basketball schools...I'll share the full list as soon as I can get it confirmed by everybody. There was a surprising ( to me, anyway) name on it.

If so, one possibility could be;
Monmouth, Fairfield, VMI, The Citadel, UNCG

That’s 14 teams total, needed expansion on southern side and moved CAA up to 7 total schools fully invested to include football.

[DFW HOYA]

That’s 14 teams total, needed expansion on southern side and moved CAA up to 7 total schools fully invested to include football.

Dropping the SoCon to seven in football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Per a solid source:

AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:
Anyway, I can confirm the original Monmouth rumor...hearing this is actually for all sports. This is part of a much larger expansion plan that would bring the CAA to 14 basketball schools...I'll share the full list as soon as I can get it confirmed by everybody. There was a surprising ( to me, anyway) name on it.

If so, one possibility could be;
Monmouth, Fairfield, VMI, The Citadel, UNCG

That’s 14 teams total, needed expansion on southern side and moved CAA up to 7 total schools fully invested to include football.

I believe a while ago Monmouth/Fairfield was floated as a possibility - obvs Monmouth in all sports, and Fairfield doesn't sponsor FB. But Monmouth's FB stadium was the huge impediment. For CAA Hoops Monmouth/Fairfield makes a lot of sense.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Might be time to resurrect this dream post I made:

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/10/if-patriot-league-thought-bigger-this.html

Not that I'm saying this is going to happen - it's not - but this solves a lot of problems:

"America East Football Conference"

Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Holy Cross
Stony Brook
Albany
Fordham
Colgate
Monmouth


"Patriot League Football Conference"

Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Delaware
Villlanova
Towson
William and Mary
Elon
Richmond
Georgetown

[UNHWildcat18]

The CAA is making little sense to me, such a weird mismatch of schools to add. I may dislike the football situation a lot but god at least the AE is stable.

[UNHWildcat18]

Might be time to resurrect this dream post I made:

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2021/10/if-patriot-league-thought-bigger-this.html

Not that I'm saying this is going to happen - it's not - but this solves a lot of problems:

"America East Football Conference"

Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island
Holy Cross
Stony Brook
Albany
Fordham
Colgate
Monmouth


"Patriot League Football Conference"

Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Delaware
Villlanova
Towson
William and Mary
Elon
Richmond
Georgetown

Wouldn't happen but again UNH MAINE URI ALBANY SBU are never going to trade Villanova and Delaware, maybe even Towson for Colgate Monmouth Fordham...........

[Sitting Bull]

Understood as a football affiliate in New England.

From a full conference member, this makes a lot of sense. The hypothetical given would give the CAA a core of 7 schools with all sports including football, it would stretch from NJ to SC - Monmouth to the The Citadel. Richmond and Villanova would fit right in as football affiliates and Charleston, UNCW and Elon have new close by and familiar rivals with VMI and The Citadel.

The odd men out would be the NY and Néw England football affiliates. They could easily just regroup under AEast. I don’t think the rest of the CAA would really care.

[WestCoastAggie]

The CAA is making little sense to me, such a weird mismatch of schools to add. I may dislike the football situation a lot but god at least the AE is stable.

This is how I feel about Big South Basketball.

[UNHWildcat18]

Understood as a football affiliate in New England.

From a full conference member, this makes a lot of sense. The hypothetical given would give the CAA a core of 7 schools with all sports including football, it would stretch from NJ to SC - Monmouth to the The Citadel. Richmond and Villanova would fit right in as football affiliates and Charleston, UNCW and Elon have new close by and familiar rivals with VMI and The Citadel.

The odd men out would be the NY and Néw England football affiliates. They could easily just regroup under AEast. I don’t think the rest of the CAA would really care.

What does VMI or Citadel gain from leaving the socon? Increased travel expenses to play whom? two old rivals and have to travel to Fairfield??? I'd say good luck keeping that all together.

Lol I am sure the football schools would not want to see the 4 AE schools go. Seeing as most of us have been Yankee football conference mates for actual decades. Personally I don't want to see UNH lose any of the mid Atlantic football schools as conference mates. It's sad to see schools of similar profiles and rich histories abandon each other over...not much.

[UNHWildcat18]

This is how I feel about Big South Basketball.

Wish we could all come together in the war room and use a whiteboard to make the fcs conferences make sense again xlolx

[Dave195]

Where did you see Matt write this? Wasn't on Twitter, that I could find. Thanks


Per a solid source:

AM)MattBrownEP Wrote:
Anyway, I can confirm the original Monmouth rumor...hearing this is actually for all sports. This is part of a much larger expansion plan that would bring the CAA to 14 basketball schools...I'll share the full list as soon as I can get it confirmed by everybody. There was a surprising ( to me, anyway) name on it.

If so, one possibility could be;
Monmouth, Fairfield, VMI, The Citadel, UNCG

That’s 14 teams total, needed expansion on southern side and moved CAA up to 7 total schools fully invested to include football.

[Sitting Bull]

CSNBB

[Dane96]

I didn't know the CAA had such a rule on stadium size. Albany, URI and Richmond don't have that many seats.

Albany seats 8,500 with SRO at 11,000 (past), expandable to 24,000. Flat out told we needed an 8,000 seat stadium to get brought in.

[ElCid]

Understood as a football affiliate in New England.

From a full conference member, this makes a lot of sense. The hypothetical given would give the CAA a core of 7 schools with all sports including football, it would stretch from NJ to SC - Monmouth to the The Citadel. Richmond and Villanova would fit right in as football affiliates and Charleston, UNCW and Elon have new close by and familiar rivals with VMI and The Citadel.

The odd men out would be the NY and Néw England football affiliates. They could easily just regroup under AEast. I don’t think the rest of the CAA would really care.

The Citadel and VMI aren't going anywhere. Unlike some other schools like Elon and CoC who looked north for general visibility, we have no need. Each Corps is at least 50% in state and already get lots of interest from the NE. Travel would be stupid. And we certainly wouldn't trade Furman for Delaware or Wofford for Towson. Or anyone else for Elon. Our one long trip north is VMI. Samford is a bit far as well, but still closer than Del and Towson. Furman, Wofford, Mercer and WCU are all close.
UTC and ETSU are bit further but easy rides. Not to mention other sports travel even further north.

No, nothing makes sense for them to leave, especially if BOTH don't go. We've seen that movie.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Citadel and VMI aren't going anywhere. Unlike some other schools like Elon and CoC who looked north for general visibility, we have no need. Each Corps is at least 50% in state and already get lots of interest from the NE. Travel would be stupid. And we certainly wouldn't trade Furman for Delaware or Wofford for Towson. Or anyone else for Elon. Our one long trip north is VMI. Samford is a bit far as well, but still closer than Del and Towson. Furman, Wofford, Mercer and WCU are all close.
UTC and ETSU are bit further but easy rides. Not to mention other sports travel even further north.

No, nothing makes sense for them to leave, especially if BOTH don't go. We've seen that movie.

If VMI and El Cid recruit up North a lot already, that could be a big draw for recruits up there for family and friends to see their games.

[walliver]

I don’t think CofC would really want El Cid.

[ElCid]

If VMI and El Cid recruit up North a lot already, that could be a big draw for recruits up there for family and friends to see their games.

Well I was thinking more along the lines of general student recruitment and not just athletic. Not sure of the breakout of athletes, but the Corps in general is usually well represented. We have had a couple good players from NY and PA I think.

[NY Crusader 2010]

My prediction at this point is that the CAA will add Monmouth, Fairfield and Campbell. I had mentioned in a prior "FCS realignment" thread that they would likely go after Furman first and then settle for either UNCG or Campbell.

I don't think that VMI and The Citadel will make that move however consider this:

In 2001, it was all but a done deal that Furman, The Citadel and Davidson were leaving the SoCon for the CAA. However, the deal fell through when Richmond left for the Atlantic 10. As a result, the CAA expansion strategy shifted north and the league took Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra and Northeastern from the America East Conference.

[Libertine]

My prediction at this point is that the CAA will add Monmouth, Fairfield and Campbell.

Hmmm, reminds me of that old joke where a former New Jersey juco, a Jesuit school in suburban Connecticut and a rural Baptist school in North Carolina walk into a conference and discover that all three are the smallest schools in the room and have nothing at all in common with anyone else. Ha! It's a classic. I forget the punchline though.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Hmmm, reminds me of that old joke where a former New Jersey juco, a Jesuit school in suburban Connecticut and a rural Baptist school in North Carolina walk into a conference and discover that all three are the smallest schools in the room and have nothing at all in common with anyone else. Ha! It's a classic. I forget the punchline though.

Maybe the punchline is that Monmouth and Fairfield join forces to convince Holy Cross to go BAAC to the MAAC, and a deal is quickly announced that the MAAC tournament will be held at the DCU Center in Worcester for the next 12 years.

[Sitting Bull]

It’s strictly speculation. I do think there’s a consideration for VMI. They are basically in the same geo as JMU so their CAA travel could be actually less than So Con. I think The Citadel would be a good companion and your schedules, assuming split Divisions, would be:
Richmond, W&M, Elon, VMI, Towson, Villanova and Delaware. In bbl: Charleston, UNCW, Elon, W&M, VMI, Towson, maybe UNCG.

Here’s one thing I would like to see. A season ending annual game between VMI and The Citadel. A game that would take place same weekend as W&M/Richmond and Delaware/Villanova. Both Corp members should attend like an annual Army/Navy. You could consider neutral ( they played once in Charlotte years ago). I think the CAA would schedule and promote that. I can’t understand why it has never developed in the So Con.

[DFW HOYA]

Here’s one thing I would like to see. A season ending annual game between VMI and The Citadel. A game that would take place same weekend as W&M/Richmond and Delaware/Villanova. Both Corp members should attend like an annual Army/Navy. You could consider neutral ( they played once in Charlotte years ago). I think the CAA would schedule and promote that. I can’t understand why it has never developed in the So Con.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Classic_of_the_South

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hmmm, reminds me of that old joke where a former New Jersey juco, a Jesuit school in suburban Connecticut and a rural Baptist school in North Carolina walk into a conference and discover that all three are the smallest schools in the room and have nothing at all in common with anyone else. Ha! It's a classic. I forget the punchline though.

Is this a Conference USA joke?

[katss07]

Is this a Conference USA joke?
Think he's talking Big South

[ElCid]

It’s strictly speculation. I do think there’s a consideration for VMI. They are basically in the same geo as JMU so their CAA travel could be actually less than So Con. I think The Citadel would be a good companion and your schedules, assuming split Divisions, would be:
Richmond, W&M, Elon, VMI, Towson, Villanova and Delaware. In bbl: Charleston, UNCW, Elon, W&M, VMI, Towson, maybe UNCG.

Here’s one thing I would like to see. A season ending annual game between VMI and The Citadel. A game that would take place same weekend as W&M/Richmond and Delaware/Villanova. Both Corp members should attend like an annual Army/Navy. You could consider neutral ( they played once in Charlotte years ago). I think the CAA would schedule and promote that. I can’t understand why it has never developed in the So Con.

Yeah we never had a season ending game with VMI as an annual event. It happened frequently the last 20 years, but not a hard date. We do have a lot of Cadets and Keydets travel when we play though. Our last game of the season was always Furman for decades. But they changed it in the early mid 90s I think. Now its all mixed up every year. We have played VMI at neutral locations before. Charlotte was one. Back in the 80s I know we went to the Oyster Bow in Norfolk to play.

VMI would fit better geographically for sure, but I just don't see them jumping. But it is about the same distance from Lexington to Newark and Philly as it is to Wofford and Furman, with a lot less traffic. Obviously better to Richmond and W&M. But it isn't huge overall given the history. Sure Samford Mercer and UTC and even The Citadel are the longer hauls. Not sure they want to enter the wildness again. Wilderness being just a newbie in a different conf.

[Doc QB]

Georgetown had 40 years of temporary seating, and even that may have been generous.

The largest temporary seats I've seen was at Northeastern:
https://repository.library.northeastern.edu/downloads/neu:192705?datastream_id=thumbnail_5
This is pre-90's. I played there in '92, the first season with brand new turf, big red padded walls around the field, and brand new aluminum bleachers, low, but end line to end line. The new turf was sticky and rough, but replaced a beat up green patio carpet on concrete. I think I have a pic somewhere. Never saw Parsons like this, grass and green wooden bleachers. Visiting locker room was awful too.

[UAalum72]

Here's late, lamented Parsons Field from 2007, two years before Northeastern dropped football
32382

[Sandlapper Spike]

I cannot imagine The Citadel joining the CAA, especially in that particular setup. (I've also heard absolutely nothing about the possibility.)

--

The Citadel and Furman only regularly played at the end of the season from 1977-92. For the most part, that series has been held around midseason, but it has had a haphazard placement on the schedule in recent years. The same is true for the series between The Citadel and VMI.

Incidentally...if anything, the two games played in Charlotte only highlighted the fact that VMI and The Citadel should always be a home-and-home series.

As a practical matter, neither series can be an annual regular-season ender for The Citadel because of the school's fall break. I think the VMI series can work as a "near" end of season game, with it ending the regular season in years the game is played in Lexington and as the next-to-last matchup when held in Charleston. Furman and The Citadel (at least to me) works best as an October clash.

--

If the CAA does expand to 14, and there is a "mystery" school involved from the south, Campbell does seem like a potential candidate. Much more likely than The Citadel, to be sure.

[WestCoastAggie]

Did Hampton finally get their wish?

[Laker]

According to College Hoops Hampton is going to the CAA with Stony Brook and Monmouth also on their list.

[mainejeff]

Then there is this....

https://twitter.com/NoBowls/status/1482178608995217410

William & Mary and Elon to the SoCon?

[caribbeanhen]

Yikes

Can Delaware just go Southern too

[WestCoastAggie]

Then there is this....

https://twitter.com/NoBowls/status/1482178608995217410

William & Mary and Elon to the SoCon?

the SoCon would need a 12th football team here to balance things out.

[caribbeanhen]

the SoCon would need a 12th football team here to balance things out.

they can have Hampton and their 500 fans

[DFW HOYA]

https://twitter.com/HBCUGameday/status/1482201480480370691

[OhioHen]

According to College Hoops Hampton is going to the CAA with Stony Brook and Monmouth also on their list.
Hampton would make sense for the CAA to get involved in the Norfolk area again after losing Old Dominion several years ago.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Hampton would make sense for the CAA to get involved in the Norfolk area again after losing Old Dominion several years ago.

100%

[NY Crusader 2010]

Then there is this....

https://twitter.com/NoBowls/status/1482178608995217410

William & Mary and Elon to the SoCon?

Elon and C of C just paid millions of dollars in exit fees to leave the SoCon. They're not going back. William & Mary is not making that move either.

[UNHWildcat18]

Reading the SBU board. They basically just want CAA to get a higher than 16 seed (if they could even make it to the dance) to then propel them to the A-10 or AAC xlolx

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

If only the MAAC kept football...

[Dane96]

Reading the SBU board. They basically just want CAA to get a higher than 16 seed (if they could even make it to the dance) to then propel them to the A-10 or AAC xlolx

They are one of the collectively most delusional fan bases out there. They literally have accomplished next to nothing in the AE.

[mainejeff]

It seems like the CAA (all-sports conference) is never happy....the schools and their fans clamor for success and the "big time" but all the conference ends up being is a holding pen for wayward schools until they find a "greener pasture". It never ends because there will always be schools like Stony Brook, Monmouth, etc. scratching and clawing for something bigger and better.

Delaware is the glue...if they left it's game over. The Delaware administration seems very satisfied being a big fish in a small pond.....they love their geography within the conference and don't seem to care about a watered down membership as long as they remain squarely situated halfway between the Northern and Southern most members.

[Sitting Bull]

Given the addition of Stony Brook for all sports, which apparently their fans are very pleased, I wonder if UAlbany was approached.

UAlbany had the green light to join with Elon several years ago, then pulled back based on financial concerns,

Good week for SBU. Designated a flagship with Buffalo by Governor, now a step up into the CAA.

[UNHWildcat18]

It seems like the CAA (all-sports conference) is never happy....the schools and their fans clamor for success and the "big time" but all the conference ends up being is a holding pen for wayward schools until they find a "greener pasture". It never ends because there will always be schools like Stony Brook, Monmouth, etc. scratching and clawing for something bigger and better.

Delaware is the glue...if they left it's game over. The Delaware administration seems very satisfied being a big fish in a small pond.....they love their geography within the conference and don't seem to care about a watered down membership as long as they remain squarely situated halfway between the Northern and Southern most members.

They will never be happy. Imma laugh if Monmouth joins and gets an A-10 invite 5 years from now.

[DFW HOYA]

They will never be happy. Imma laugh if Monmouth joins and gets an A-10 invite 5 years from now.

By that time it'll be the Atlantic-20.

[NY Crusader 2010]

By that time it'll be the Atlantic-20.

I mean hey if you're either a private Catholic or public urban commuter school roughly in the eastern half of the country, you're a potential candidate to join the A-10.

[iBOsbu]

Reading the SBU board. They basically just want CAA to get a higher than 16 seed (if they could even make it to the dance) to then propel them to the A-10 or AAC xlolx


They are one of the collectively most delusional fan bases out there. They literally have accomplished next to nothing in the AE.

You all sound like sour grapes. We are an hour from biggest city in the world. AAU. Now flagship of the state of NY. And we are delusional fans for daring to want to have success and wanting to be in the 7th/8th best bball conference A10 one day. Like you wouldn’t want to be in a better conference than AE.

There is no guarantee that CAA will be good for us.. the lack success of AE to CAA members Hofstra, Delaware, Towson and Drexel etc. is clear to all. But it’s not like we are doing any better in AE. Perhaps the change will be good for us. Better than staying stagnant. And no one moves from AE to A10. But plenty have moved up from CAA. It may not be the same CAA of yesteryears, but still better than AE. It’s still poaching from AE, Maac, Big South, SoCon etc.

[Dane96]

😂.You've sucked in the AE, across the board. And don't gaslight people, it takes well more than an hour to get to NYC. Furthermore, no one gives a **** about Stony Brook sports in NYC but for alumns. UConn, Rutgers, St John's, Syracuse, Seton Hall, and whatever college people graduated from is what NYC'ers support. End discussion. And that is after the fact that NYC's fan base is more pro oriented then in college.

Sour grapes? Albany was invited and declined when we came into the CAA, and i was full well in the loop on the discussions and choice. We declined for the same reasons that SBU should decline.

And for the record, this is not even close to a done deal. The SBU invite will only occur if the CAA decides to go to 14 or 16 teams. The model could create distinct intra-divisions, a.ka. mini-leagues under a single banner. It's truly the only way a large conference can exist. You won't even be playing who you think you would. This is all about the CAA schools protecting themselves if the NCAA drastically changes. It would allow the northern and southern schools to break off into whatever future format they require, depending on the landscape of the NCAA. And the NCAA will be drastically changing, zero doubt about it.

Facts.

[mainejeff]

.You've sucked in the AE, across the board. And don't gaslight people, it takes well more than an hour to get to NYC. Furthermore, no one gives a **** about Stony Brook sports in NYC but for alumns. UConn, Rutgers, St John's, Syracuse, Seton Hall, and whatever college people graduated from is what NYC'ers support. End discussion. And that is after the fact that NYC's fan base is more pro oriented then in college.

Sour grapes? Albany was invited and declined when we came into the CAA, and i was full well in the loop on the discussions and choice. We declined for the same reasons that SBU should decline.

And for the record, this is not even close to a done deal. The SBU invite will only occur if the CAA decides to go to 14 or 16 teams. The model would create distinct dual leagues, ao you wont even be playing who you think you would. This is all about the CAA schools protecting themselves if the NCAA drastically changes. It would allow the northern and southern schools to break off.

Facts.

This. Delaware is a smart school always looking out for its best interests. There's no way that Delaware would straight up support the CAA moving in this direction if there wasn't something behind it....the Blue Hen administration is hedging their bets....protecting themselves. And there is always a sucker out there willing to bite.

I find it funny that no former AE schools have been able to parlay their move to the CAA into something bigger and better....even 20 years after they fled AE. The fact that Delaware is still in the CAA and still playing FCS football says a lot.

[Dane96]

This. Delaware is a smart school always looking out for its best interests. There's no way that Delaware would straight up support the CAA moving in this direction if there wasn't something behind it....the Blue Hen administration is hedging their bets....protecting themselves. And there is always a sucker out there willing to bite.

I find it funny that no former AE schools have been able to parlay their move to the CAA into something bigger and better....even 20 years after they fled AE. The fact that Delaware is still in the CAA and still playing FCS football says a lot.

If this goes through, the CAA is likely a 14 team model (if SBU is invited) could look like:

North
Stony Brook
Monmouth
Hofstra
Drexel
Northeastern
Towson
Delaware

South
Elon
UNCW
Charleston
W&M
Hampton
Another Southern School
Another Southern School

That's 14 mouths for one bid, and Stony Brook is still in the same position as it is today for football. There is increased travel and cost, and it's not like there will be a fan "spirit" upgrade; these aren't places that pack the arenas. As far as academics, which is always what SBU fans go on about (AAU, AAU, AAU...yawn), arguably the only schools in the SBU stratosphere are arguably W&M, Delaware, Northeastern, and Drexel.

None of this is a knock on the CAA schools at all, this is more about SBU fans literally not looking at the landscape from an honest view.

So, if the NCAA changes up...and it is likely to do so, let's say the two divisions breakoff-- how does the following division make much of a change from the AE:

SBU
Monmouth
Delaware
Hofstra
Northeastern
Drexel
Towson

Let me give the short answer: It's no different than the AE, in fact every single team in that league but for Monmouth would have been a member of the AE. If people were thinking clearly, and now I am talking AD's, the bull**** would stop. The CAA is a hodgepodge of schools who think they are something they should be but are not. The CAA was a fine league for a long, long time. But the intrinsic setup of the league is vastly different than those days. What should occur is a ripping off the band-aid to ensure utmost protection from the changes that will come down the pike (maybe a new basketball division in the NCAA, for example): The SOUTHERN CAA and NORTHERN CAA schools should start looking at doing what the Sunbelt did- regionalize. The current CAA model is more akin to what the ASUN is trying to do, which I think is silly...it's more of a reactionary protection than being proactive. Pride needs to be packed in the trunk, key thrown away.

Right now, using the north as an example, the AE, MEAC the NEC, MAAC, and CAA all have teams that could move around to form new, cohesive regionalized leagues with members that share the same goals. It doesn't have to be a all-sports only league, meaning you can have schools that don't sponsor football as members. The same thing can be said of the Big South, ASUN, Southern, MEAC etc.

Just one man's opinion.

[UNHWildcat18]

.You've sucked in the AE, across the board. And don't gaslight people, it takes well more than an hour to get to NYC. Furthermore, no one gives a **** about Stony Brook sports in NYC but for alumns. UConn, Rutgers, St John's, Syracuse, Seton Hall, and whatever college people graduated from is what NYC'ers support. End discussion. And that is after the fact that NYC's fan base is more pro oriented then in college.

Sour grapes? Albany was invited and declined when we came into the CAA, and i was full well in the loop on the discussions and choice. We declined for the same reasons that SBU should decline.

And for the record, this is not even close to a done deal. The SBU invite will only occur if the CAA decides to go to 14 or 16 teams. The model could create distinct intra-divisions, a.ka. mini-leagues under a single banner. It's truly the only way a large conference can exist. You won't even be playing who you think you would. This is all about the CAA schools protecting themselves if the NCAA drastically changes. It would allow the northern and southern schools to break off into whatever future format they require, depending on the landscape of the NCAA. And the NCAA will be drastically changing, zero doubt about it.

Facts.

Agreed, no one cares about SBU athletics when someone says “who’s big time college sports in New York?”
I hate to say but it’s really W&M and UD keeping the CAA afloat. They are the only reason schools stay put for now. Funny BU left the AE and everyone I know wont go unless it’s hockey. We used to meet up for the occasional basketball game but now that they play the PL, none of my BU friends go to games anymore, because while not a state school my BU friends enjoyed the fact half their HE opponents were also conference mates. Grass isn’t always greener

[NY Crusader 2010]

Agreed, no one cares about SBU athletics when someone says “who’s big time college sports in New York?”
I hate to say but it’s really W&M and UD keeping the CAA afloat. They are the only reason schools stay put for now. Funny BU left the AE and everyone I know wont go unless it’s hockey. We used to meet up for the occasional basketball game but now that they play the PL, none of my BU friends go to games anymore, because while not a state school my BU friends enjoyed the fact half their HE opponents were also conference mates. Grass isn’t always greener

All great points. I still wonder why BU decided to make the move to the Patriot League? What did they gain out of the move exactly? As far as sports interest on campus BU is basically NYU, with the exception of hockey. Might as well be the only game in town, so PL basically gains nothing with having BU in the league. Another body with good minor sports, that's about it.

[NY Crusader 2010]

This. Delaware is a smart school always looking out for its best interests. There's no way that Delaware would straight up support the CAA moving in this direction if there wasn't something behind it....the Blue Hen administration is hedging their bets....protecting themselves. And there is always a sucker out there willing to bite.

I find it funny that no former AE schools have been able to parlay their move to the CAA into something bigger and better....even 20 years after they fled AE. The fact that Delaware is still in the CAA and still playing FCS football says a lot.

What does Delaware not having jumped to FBS have to do with their move to the CAA? When they were an A-East member, Delaware football was already playing in the equivalent of today's "CAA Football" conference, as they were in the A-10 and Yankee prior.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

All great points. I still wonder why BU decided to make the move to the Patriot League? What did they gain out of the move exactly? As far as sports interest on campus BU is basically NYU, with the exception of hockey. Might as well be the only game in town, so PL basically gains nothing with having BU in the league. Another body with good minor sports, that's about it.

Without having spent much if any time at these institutions, Boston U/NYU/George Washington, I can't help by "feel like" the three are quite similar in terms of student profile and campus life. Yet, one plays D3, one is in the PL and one is in the A10. I tend to agree that Boston U. is a bit of an "odd fit" in the PL yet I am not sure where they blend in more seamlessly. Their institutional profile is extremely unique. Boston U., George Washington, Northwestern, Duke and NYU (likely missing a couple more) fit in a special niche imo....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What does Delaware not having jumped to FBS have to do with their move to the CAA? When they were an A-East member, Delaware football was already playing in the equivalent of today's "CAA Football" conference, as they were in the A-10 and Yankee prior.

Despite their football history, Delaware tries to align themselves with the UVM's, Rutgers, UVA's and UNC's of the world. Granted, their academic rep has definitely slipped a bit over the last 20 years and I am not sure why. When I was in high school it was arguably harder to get into UD out of state than it was to get into Bucknell and Fordham (even Lehigh, Colgate, Holy Cross and Lafayette would be interesting). It was ranked as one of the most competitive public schools for out of state applicants. Now? Nothing close to that. It's been passed by Virginia Tech and Stony Brook (among others).

[DFW HOYA]

Without having spent much if any time at these institutions, Boston U/NYU/George Washington, I can't help by "feel like" the three are quite similar in terms of student profile and campus life. Yet, one plays D3, one is in the PL and one is in the A10. I tend to agree that Boston U. is a bit of an "odd fit" in the PL yet I am not sure where they blend in more seamlessly. Their institutional profile is extremely unique. Boston U., George Washington, Northwestern, Duke and NYU (likely missing a couple more) fit in a special niche imo....

BU, Northeastern, George Washington, and NYU fit into the Top-75 tier whose students want the urban experience ahead of athletic interests.

Duke and Northwestern are Top-25 schools with more suburban campuses and major college athletic programs.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

BU, Northeastern, George Washington, and NYU fit into the Top-75 tier whose students want the urban experience ahead of athletic interests.

Duke and Northwestern are Top-25 schools with more suburban campuses and major college athletic programs.

Not sure if Northeastern deserves to be in that tier. They're much more of peer of Drexel.

The above mentioned are the "ultra-elite" non-Ivy private institutions that attract the best of the best grad students/researchers imo. Johns Hopkins is another one and probably the most of famous of THAT group. Terrible miss on my part....

Who would be a peer of Monmouth? Quinnipiac? Robert Morris? Widener?

[DFW HOYA]

Who would be a peer of Monmouth? Quinnipiac? Robert Morris? Widener?

Rider

[Sitting Bull]

According to the Richmond Times Dispatch today, the short term expansion is locked on Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton. They appear done minus the paperwork.

The article also mentioned they did not expect Howard or any So Con members to be included.

That brings football to 13, all sport members to 12 and 7 “core” members (those all sport to include football). All the adds are also within the current geographic framework of the conference though Metro NY becomes more prominent.

I still think Fairfield is in the mix. And also believe VMI is still a possibility, particularly if the CAA shifts to two divisions.

[WestCoastAggie]

According to the Richmond Times Dispatch today, the short term expansion is locked on Monmouth, Stony Brook and Hampton. They appear done minus the paperwork.

The article also mentioned they did not expect Howard or any So Con members to be included.

That brings football to 13, all sport members to 12 and 7 “core” members (those all sport to include football). All the adds are also within the current geographic framework of the conference though Metro NY becomes more prominent.

I still think Fairfield is in the mix. And also believe VMI is still a possibility, particularly if the CAA shifts to two divisions.

13 is an odd number literally and figuratively with divisions in football.

[UNHWildcat18]

13 is an odd number literally and figuratively with divisions in football.

FCS having divisions is so pointless due to there being no championship, we already schedule regionally. CAA football being diluted year after year. Hampton and Monmouth don't bring CAA football up in any way.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

FCS having divisions is so pointless due to there being no championship, we already schedule regionally. CAA football being diluted year after year. Hampton and Monmouth don't bring CAA football up in any way.

I agree! I don't see either move really helping the CAA's "prestige" in anyway. The only thing Hampton does is appease the "conference diversity" decision makers.

I wonder if we will ever know if a Patriot League school was contacted? Even via an un-returned email or text?

[WestCoastAggie]

FCS having divisions is so pointless due to there being no championship, we already schedule regionally. CAA football being diluted year after year. Hampton and Monmouth don't bring CAA football up in any way.
How can we say these schools won’t invest into their program to not water down the league? Hampton is expanding their football stadium, for example. And we already know Monmouth football is on an upward trajectory.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How can we say these schools won’t invest into their program to not water down the league? Hampton is expanding their football stadium, for example. And we already know Monmouth football is on an upward trajectory.

I look at this similar to the AAC backfilling the losses of Cincinnati, Houston and UCF with North Texas, Rice, FAU, and Charlotte. While those programs might be aspiring for more and willing to "invest" in order to make themselves appealing a possible, it still doesn't replace the equity those leaving had established for the league. At the end of the day, the CAA is in a no win situation when trying to replace JMU. Some would argue the best decision would have been stand pat and work to rebuild the current structure.

[atthewbon]

Not sure if Northeastern deserves to be in that tier. They're much more of peer of Drexel.

The above mentioned are the "ultra-elite" non-Ivy private institutions that attract the best of the best grad students/researchers imo. Johns Hopkins is another one and probably the most of famous of THAT group. Terrible miss on my part....

Who would be a peer of Monmouth? Quinnipiac? Robert Morris? Widener?

I’m definitely no expert but as a current college student in that area who knows people who applied to these schools it seems to me that a lot of people apply to all 3 and the general ranking of where students want to go is NYU, Northeastern, GW. (Obviously there are lots of different factors for different people). Idk too much about the schools but I think Northeastern’s academic reputation has been increasing a lot lately. But yea Northwestern and Duke definitely seem to be a tier above (in regards to academic prestige). It seems to me like this realignment mess of the Northeast schools probably won’t be fully figured out until the new NCAA changes that seem to be coming are announced.

As people have previously mentioned Delaware seems to be stuck in the middle between the state flagships from nearby states and the other state schools from these states. Kinda unrelated but one interesting thing about these mid Atlantic state schools (Delaware, penn st, and maryland) is a lot of students come from New Jersey. I think this is especially true of Delaware.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I look at this similar to the AAC backfilling the losses of Cincinnati, Houston and UCF with North Texas, Rice, FAU, and Charlotte. While those programs might be aspiring for more and willing to "invest" in order to make themselves appealing a possible, it still doesn't replace the equity those leaving had established for the league. At the end of the day, the CAA is in a no win situation when trying to replace JMU. Some would argue the best decision would have been stand pat and work to rebuild the current structure.

CAA needed to juice up it's all-sports contingent, namely Men's Basketball. Monmouth makes a lot of sense overall and it's a bonus that they have a consistently competitive, if not up-and-coming football program. Not to mention, it gives CAA a foothold in a state, that for Northeast standards, is a recruiting gold mine. Hampton doesn't add much competitively, however it gives CAA a presence in Norfolk/Virginia Beach, which was lost when ODU left. Plus, in general I think there's this idea that there may some un-tapped potential by bringing in an HBCU when you see what's going on at Jackson State. While a leap in on-field or on-court results hasn't happened yet, you now have players that are NFL and NBA locks signing with these schools over power programs. Whether or not this movement will continue is unknown but either way HBCU schools bring a ton of fan support and tradition which can never be a bad thing.

As I've stated before, the idea of JMU leaving the CAA has been baked into the cake for a decade now. So I don't even view their exit as a loss in present terms -- it was ultimately going to happen no matter what, just a matter of when. Football-wise, it absolutely drops the CAA further down into the pack when it comes to FCS conference pecking order. However, JMU did absolutely nothing to move the needle for the CAA in Men's Basketball, which is why IMO their departure should be seen more as an OPPORTUNITY for the CAA than a loss. Ultimately, moving towards becoming a multi-bid league in basketball again will do more for exposure than a perennial FCS semi-finalist will. And CAA football is still in fine shape -- no longer the best in the land like it was before the emergence of the Dakota schools, but still a solid league that will send three teams to the playoffs most years, even with JMU gone.

When it comes to football, the CAA's ace in the hole will be bringing UMASS back when they ultimately make the decision to drop back down to FCS.

[Sitting Bull]

This expansion is not about football in priority. Its not about appeasing football affiliates and it shouldn’t be. It’s about strengthening the core (all sports members). Outside of football, both SBU and Monmouth are upgrades over JMU for the CAA.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I’m definitely no expert but as a current college student in that area who knows people who applied to these schools it seems to me that a lot of people apply to all 3 and the general ranking of where students want to go is NYU, Northeastern, GW. (Obviously there are lots of different factors for different people). Idk too much about the schools but I think Northeastern’s academic reputation has been increasing a lot lately. But yea Northwestern and Duke definitely seem to be a tier above (in regards to academic prestige). It seems to me like this realignment mess of the Northeast schools probably won’t be fully figured out until the new NCAA changes that seem to be coming are announced.

As people have previously mentioned Delaware seems to be stuck in the middle between the state flagships from nearby states and the other state schools from these states. Kinda unrelated but one interesting thing about these mid Atlantic state schools (Delaware, penn st, and maryland) is a lot of students come from New Jersey. I think this is especially true of Delaware.

Academically speaking, Duke and Northwestern are right in there with the Ivies as well as the likes of Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Chicago, Johns Hopkins, UNC Chapel Hill and UVA when it comes to admissions. NYU is pretty close to this group, depending on which program you apply for and would definitely be a school with a lot of common applicants to Northeastern and GW, as well as other urban schools like Boston University, American, Drexel, Fordham, Emory, Brandeis, DePaul, etc.

Northeastern' academic reputation has absolutely increased a ton since I was applying to college in 2006. Their co-op program is a big reason for this -- not only does it provide opportunities for students to obtain a Masters in 5 years, it also directly translates into career opportunities right out of school. Northeastern was considerably less competitive to get into than Holy Cross when I was in high school...now I believe it's harder to get into.

[mainejeff]

This expansion is not about football in priority. Its not about appeasing football affiliates and it shouldn’t be. It’s about strengthening the core (all sports members). Outside of football, both SBU and Monmouth are upgrades over JMU for the CAA.

Seriously?

[UNHWildcat18]

How can we say these schools won’t invest into their program to not water down the league? Hampton is expanding their football stadium, for example. And we already know Monmouth football is on an upward trajectory.

Monmouth can't expand past their current limit stadium size wise, they will always be small size in terms of stadium and fanbase. Link for hamptons stadium upgrade? Also Hampton has been to the fcs playoffs 5 times and they are 0-5. last time was 2006. They have simply never been a good football program.

Again this isn't to strengthen the CAAFB conference this is purely to please the CAA conference. While I don't care about the CAA I am pretty anti watering down the CAAFB conference. I'd rather stay at 11 than add either of those programs.

You don't see the MVFC adding St. Thomas just to please the summit or MVC where schools reside for the rest of sports.

[UNHWildcat18]

This expansion is not about football in priority. Its not about appeasing football affiliates and it shouldn’t be. It’s about strengthening the core (all sports members). Outside of football, both SBU and Monmouth are upgrades over JMU for the CAA.

Your train of thought is correct, it's about the CAA, Just sucks CAAFB gets watered down due to it.

[mainejeff]

Monmouth can't expand past their current limit stadium size wise, they will always be small size in terms of stadium and fanbase. Link for hamptons stadium upgrade? Also Hampton has been to the fcs playoffs 5 times and they are 0-5. last time was 2006. They have simply never been a good football program.

Again this isn't to strengthen the CAAFB conference this is purely to please the CAA conference. While I don't care about the CAA I am pretty anti watering down the CAAFB conference. I'd rather stay at 11 than add either of those programs.

You don't see the MVFC adding St. Thomas just to please the summit or MVC where schools reside for the rest of sports.

This is about conference (CAA all-sports) survival though. If they made no moves.....C of C, UNCW and possibly Elon would be flight threats (and still may be).

[atthewbon]

Monmouth can't expand past their current limit stadium size wise, they will always be small size in terms of stadium and fanbase. Link for hamptons stadium upgrade? Also Hampton has been to the fcs playoffs 5 times and they are 0-5. last time was 2006. They have simply never been a good football program.

Again this isn't to strengthen the CAAFB conference this is purely to please the CAA conference. While I don't care about the CAA I am pretty anti watering down the CAAFB conference. I'd rather stay at 11 than add either of those programs.

You don't see the MVFC adding St. Thomas just to please the summit or MVC where schools reside for the rest of sports.

To be fair adding North Dakota was for the other Dakota schools and adding Murray st was for the MVC schools.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Your train of thought is correct, it's about the CAA, Just sucks CAAFB gets watered down due to it.

Is it really getting that "watered down"? Monmouth right now is at least league-average in the CAA in football. Hampton will be a bottom-feeder for a little while. But they won't water down the league any more than when Georgia State launched football as a CAA program for three years and then left with one all-time conference win. The football league will be fine. A core of Villanova, Delaware, William & Mary, Richmond, UNH and Maine isn't bad at all, especially when you consider the growth potential of the other programs already in or joining the league.

[UNHWildcat18]

This is about conference (CAA all-sports) survival though. If they made no moves.....C of C, UNCW and possibly Elon would be flight threats (and still may be).

Question Jeff do you think BU and NU would have stayed or in NU's case come back if HE merged offices with AE?

[NY Crusader 2010]

Monmouth can't expand past their current limit stadium size wise, they will always be small size in terms of stadium and fanbase. Link for hamptons stadium upgrade? Also Hampton has been to the fcs playoffs 5 times and they are 0-5. last time was 2006. They have simply never been a good football program.

Again this isn't to strengthen the CAAFB conference this is purely to please the CAA conference. While I don't care about the CAA I am pretty anti watering down the CAAFB conference. I'd rather stay at 11 than add either of those programs.

You don't see the MVFC adding St. Thomas just to please the summit or MVC where schools reside for the rest of sports.

The difference is that the MVFC operates separately from both the Missouri Valley Conference and the Summit League. Being a member of either for all sports doesn't guarantee football membership in the MVFC.

When a school is invited to the CAA, and that school has football, their football program comes along for the ride. And since the CAA needs all-sports members, the priority is that, not beefing up football specifically. Similarly, if UNCW decided tomorrow to add football tomorrow, they would be playing in the CAA by their third season.

- - - Updated - - -


Question Jeff do you think BU and NU would have stayed or in NU's case come back if HE merged offices with AE?

I'll tell you this. If that ever happens, somebody please sign Holy Cross up to join the America East in all sports.

[walliver]

These additions seem well suited to the University of New Jersey at Charleston (the College of Charleston). I don't see any advantage to large football conferences at FCS level (or G5 for that matter). Being in a conference where you only play some opponents every 2-3 years makes little sense without big TV money or a profitable conference championship game.

[KPSUL]

FCS having divisions is so pointless due to there being no championship, we already schedule regionally. CAA football being diluted year after year. Hampton and Monmouth don't bring CAA football up in any way.

Either school, Hampton or Monmouth, would be a nice addition to the CAA. Really, JMU was becoming the statistical outlier in CAA football in terms of the total program expenditures and a win at any cost strategy. They compromised academic reputation when they gave up association with premiere state universities and private schools like Richmond and Villanova and joined a conference comprised of the likes of Troy, Arkansas State, Louisiana Monroe and South Alabama. And for what? Only to play at the lowest level of FBS football.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Either school, Hampton or Monmouth, would be a nice addition to the CAA. Really, JMU was becoming the statistical outlier in CAA football in terms of the total program expenditures and a win at any cost strategy. They compromised academic reputation when they gave up association with premiere state universities and private schools like Richmond and Villanova and joined a conference comprised of the likes of Troy, Arkansas State, Louisiana Monroe and South Alabama. And for what? Only to play at the lowest level of FBS football.

I actually see JMU's move as a win-win for all parties. I believe JMU will be a great fit in the up-and-coming Sun Belt Conference. And the CAA as a whole will more than adequately replace a member whose been looking at the door for eight years.

[UNHWildcat18]

[QUOTE=NY Crusader 2010;3034983

I'll tell you this. If that ever happens, somebody please sign Holy Cross up to join the America East in all sports.[/QUOTE]

Would have been nice but obviously HE would have still remained a hockey only conference. It probably would have kept BU around and maybe convinced NU to come back.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Would have been nice but obviously HE would have still remained a hockey only conference. It probably would have kept BU around and maybe convinced NU to come back.

OK, I was thinking along the lines of AE taking over the Hockey East banner and became "America East Hockey".

[centraljerseycat]

As someone who only cares about the football side of the CAA, I'd much rather see Holy Cross, Fordham, UMass or UConn before Hampton or Monmouth. Unfortunately none of the four appear to be interested.

[ElCid]

These additions seem well suited to the University of New Jersey at Charleston (the College of Charleston). I don't see any advantage to large football conferences at FCS level (or G5 for that matter). Being in a conference where you only play some opponents every 2-3 years makes little sense without big TV money or a profitable conference championship game.

Well, we've seen what the "sense" is, in that without playing all or any of the good programs in a big conf, they sneak in extra at larges when often not appropriate just because they have a free ride of rep. Not always true, but we have all seen it happen too often.

[mainejeff]

Question Jeff do you think BU and NU would have stayed or in NU's case come back if HE merged offices with AE?

No.

[UNHWildcat18]

As someone who only cares about the football side of the CAA, I'd much rather see Holy Cross, Fordham, UMass or UConn before Hampton or Monmouth. Unfortunately none of the four appear to be interested.

UmAss has to come back at somepoint. If the CAA is full by then they’ll be in trouble still

[NY Crusader 2010]

UmAss has to come back at somepoint. If the CAA is full by then they’ll be in trouble still

Either that or CAA will try to leverage UMASS into going in for all-sports. Don't think it will come to that, but who knows.

[OhioHen]

As people have previously mentioned Delaware seems to be stuck in the middle between the state flagships from nearby states and the other state schools from these states. Kinda unrelated but one interesting thing about these mid Atlantic state schools (Delaware, penn st, and maryland) is a lot of students come from New Jersey. I think this is especially true of Delaware.

Rutgers has long been the safety school for those New Jersey residents who can't get into Delaware

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This expansion is not about football in priority. Its not about appeasing football affiliates and it shouldn’t be. It’s about strengthening the core (all sports members). Outside of football, both SBU and Monmouth are upgrades over JMU for the CAA.

I agree that it is far more about "strengthening the conference" than it is about a particular sport's interest. The move to add Hampton looks good on the surface, in terms of adding an HBCU and expanding the CAA's reach, but from a strictly competitive aspect? That's for us to on here to debate with more fervor.

Howard has been mentioned as a possible expansion candidate for the PL. It ultimately comes down to intention and motives within the context of the winning and losing that defines competitive sports. Howard is getting a nice platform to showcase their university right now with a home basketball game against Notre Dame on Fox.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I agree that it is far more about "strengthening the conference" than it is about a particular sport's interest. The move to add Hampton looks good on the surface, in terms of adding an HBCU and expanding the CAA's reach, but from a strictly competitive aspect? That's for us to on here to debate with more fervor.

Howard has been mentioned as a possible expansion candidate for the PL. It ultimately comes down to intention and motives within the context of the winning and losing that defines competitive sports. Howard is getting a nice platform to showcase their university right now with a home basketball game against Notre Dame on Fox.

I'd be on board with Howard to the PL. Again, I think at least today, there's a thought that perhaps there's some untapped potential amongst the HBCU contingent. And worst case scenario, Hampton is a perennial doormat in the CAA. But at least it's a perennial doormat who's located in a recruiting-rich area for football, will travel fairly well and help members fill their football stadiums, bring a decent crowd to the CAA basketball tournament and has some longstanding tradition.

[Dane96]

No.

Jeff is very much correct. It was BU that torpedoed the AE taking over Hockey East. In short, they wanted out of the AE. The deal on the table was the AE taking over Hockey East and football. (I have the powerpoint deck for school President's, somewhere). BC was in, which was a shock to all...but it was BU who said no. Ended it.

[mainejeff]

Jeff is very much correct. It was BU that torpedoed the AE taking over Hockey East. In short, they wanted out of the AE. The deal on the table was the AE taking over Hockey East and football. (I have the powerpoint deck for school President's, somewhere). BC was in, which was a shock to all...but it was BU who said no. Ended it.

BU said no and promptly left America East....correct?

[Dane96]

BU said no and promptly left America East....correct?

Correct

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Rutgers has long been the safety school for those New Jersey residents who can't get into Delaware

I could see this being true during the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. But I certainly don't see that being the case in 2022. 20-30 years ago Temple was definitely a UD safety school. Now? No way.....

UD, for whatever reason, has lost their way. It had a significantly better rep than all the small New England state schools EXCEPT Vermont (they were basically twins). 25 years ago UConn couldn't come close to matching UD's "academic reputation". Now the "farm school" in Storrs is at the very least an equal; arguably a bit more "encompassing".

This is not to say UD is no longer a very good school because it is. It simply lost its place among the elite Colonial Era colleges over the last quarter century imo. I would love to know the out of state acceptance rate in 1995 for UD compared to W&M, UVM, UVA, Rutgers, Maryland and UNC.

The CAA, and Northeast/Mid-Atlantic FCS football in general, needs Delaware to get their bleep together....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Whatever happened to the "Youngstown State to the CAA talk"? Was there ever legitimate substance to back up that idea? I have to think at this point Tressel is extremely content keeping YSU "Midwestern"?

[DFW HOYA]

I could see this being true during the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. But I certainly don't see that being the case in 2022. 20-30 years ago Temple was definitely a UD safety school. Now? No way.....


Temple: 60% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/pennsylvania/temple-university/admission/

Delaware: 71% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/delaware/university-of-delaware/admission/

[Bill]

Temple: 60% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/pennsylvania/temple-university/admission/

Delaware: 71% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/delaware/university-of-delaware/admission/

And just to be fair: Rutgers 61%
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/new-jersey/rutgers-university-new-brunswick/admission/

[ElCid]

Temple: 60% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/pennsylvania/temple-university/admission/

Delaware: 71% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/delaware/university-of-delaware/admission/

Acceptance rates may have been a way to guage quality in years gone by, but sadly schools have become more interested in the bottom line. Some more than others depending on the number of applicants they may get. Couple that with fickle applicants more concerned with other factors than the quality of education they may receive, and that data point has become less of an accurate indicator of quality. May still be accurate at times, but comparing anything but the extremes is futile.

[Dane96]

If acceptance rates matter, Stony Brook fans would look to Albany and say "Wow, 52%, impressive...I'd like to stick with that kind of school".

[NY Crusader 2010]

Whatever happened to the "Youngstown State to the CAA talk"? Was there ever legitimate substance to back up that idea? I have to think at this point Tressel is extremely content keeping YSU "Midwestern"?

For football yes there was substantive talk at one point four or five years ago. If you look at a map, Youngstown is a very long bus ride to even the closest Valley opponent. Indiana State is a 6 and a half hour drive from Youngstown, OH. Illinois State is 7+ hours. Guessing they fly out of Pittsburgh to get to the Dakota schools, Missouri State and Northern Iowa. Youngstown is right next to the Pennsylvania border so a bus ride to Delaware would be about 6 hours, Villanova about 5 and a half, and JMU would've been about 5 and a half. Even William & Mary would be a long but manageable 7 hour bus ride.

YSU is in the Horizon League for all other sports, which is geographically a lot more compact -- Cleveland State, Detroit Mercy, Oakland, Robert Morris, Wright State, IUIPUI. So YSU to the CAA for all sports not in the cards.

[WestCoastAggie]

Temple: 60% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/pennsylvania/temple-university/admission/

Delaware: 71% accept rate.
https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/delaware/university-of-delaware/admission/

As a comparison: Hampton: 36% (Google)

Monmouth: 69.4% (Google)

A&T: 57% (Google)

[aceinthehole]

Even CCSU:s acceptance rate is 65%.

But we know the better metric for selectively is YIELD rate.

The percent of accepted students that attended. In this case, schools like Yale, other Ivys, Stanford, Chicago, etc. have an yield in the 80% and acceptance rates less than 10%.

Schools like Monmouth and Quinnipiac have acceptance rates greater than 75 and yeilds around 15%

[Sitting Bull]

I’ve been told by those who work in academic admins that the key factor Universities grade themselves is yield, not acceptance rate. Yield is the percent of students accepted that actually enroll. As example, Harvard likely has a very high yield - getting the very best students - as few would not move forward attending once accepted. Many larger schools have to accept a larger number as most will choose to attend another option .

[Dave195]

https://www.nj.com/setonhall/2022/01/monmouth-is-leaving-maac-big-south-for-colonial-athletic-association.html

[KPSUL]

Well if the Seton Hall writer for NJ.com says so it must be unequitable fact. The rumor at UNH was that a season's opening Thursday night game with Monmouth was in the works for 2022 - if they didn't join the CAA. Now that they may be a conference opponent, and part of our 8 game CAA schedule, we'll need another OOC opponent and it needs to be a home game. With a 3-8 record this past season, we should not appear too intimidating to anyone.

[caribbeanhen]

College has become a scam but I guess young kids are trapped into the system

[caribbeanhen]

I’ve been told by those who work in academic admins that the key factor Universities grade themselves is yield, not acceptance rate. Yield is the percent of students accepted that actually enroll. As example, Harvard likely has a very high yield - getting the very best students - as few would not move forward attending once accepted. Many larger schools have to accept a larger number as most will choose to attend another option .

what about percentage of students that enroll that actually graduate? What is that number called? Dividends?

[ElCid]

what about percentage of students that enroll that actually graduate? What is that number called? Dividends?

Nice. It's what happens when bean bean counters are put in charge

[Sitting Bull]

I think that’s graduation rate?

[WestCoastAggie]

what about percentage of students that enroll that actually graduate? What is that number called? Dividends?

🤣

[Henny]

The notion that somehow UD has declined academically is just nonsense and maybe just the opposite.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The notion that somehow UD has declined academically is just nonsense and maybe just the opposite.

It's not that UD has declined rather they simply have not kept up with similar institutions which has caused them to "fall back to the pack" some. Granted, schools like Stony Brook, UConn, Monmouth, Temple, Villanova, JMU, Towson etc. have advanced significantly the last 20-30 years while UD has progressed at a slower rate despite its flagship status. It's still a great school!

In many ways, sports can be used as a microcosm for the institutional progression at the above institutions.

[caribbeanhen]

I think that’s graduation rate?

Yes, those numbers would be interesting to see

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All great points. I still wonder why BU decided to make the move to the Patriot League? What did they gain out of the move exactly? As far as sports interest on campus BU is basically NYU, with the exception of hockey. Might as well be the only game in town, so PL basically gains nothing with having BU in the league. Another body with good minor sports, that's about it.

I think BU thought they were going to boss around the Patriot League the same way they bossed around AE in all sports. Didn't exactly work out that way. BU is competitive in all sports. All they need to do is restart football and they'll be a member in perfect standing (despite the fact that they are different than the other schools in the PL).

BU is a massive player in women's sports and also want to be a national player in lacrosse. Lacrosse I think was a major reason why they wanted to join as well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Not exactly sure what Hampton brings to the table for the CAA. Athletics? 284 RPI? They never have dominated the Big South in hoops and have been basically non-competitive in football. Academics? Sure, they're a good school, but their endowment is 1/5th the size of, say, Delaware's. They just don't seem like a great fit in any way except for the accident of geography.

2. Is the AE really just going to take Stony Brook going to the CAA sitting down? Maybe the AE is completely bereft of any leadership, but I somehow doubt it. Then these same people are going to be sitting in the same room in CAAFB meetings? Again, somehow, I doubt this. This move is likely to split the CAAFB apart, or maybe in two.

3. Monmouth provides very good hoops - in that sense, they are a great fit. But football-wise, as folks have mentioned, they are a reach because of their stadium. If they had some plan to get to 10,000, then it would be different, but are the other CAA schools fine with a team with a stadium of 4,000?

I think more than anything else about this move - if this is really a done deal, and I have serious doubts about this - is how desperate this all seems for the CAA. At best, all three moves are reaches. Not a single one of these moves on their merits is one which you can say "wow, this makes the CAA stronger/better/more stable". That says a ton to me.

[solohawks]

1. Not exactly sure what Hampton brings to the table for the CAA. Athletics? 284 RPI? They never have dominated the Big South in hoops and have been basically non-competitive in football. Academics? Sure, they're a good school, but their endowment is 1/5th the size of, say, Delaware's. They just don't seem like a great fit in any way except for the accident of geography.

2. Is the AE really just going to take Stony Brook going to the CAA sitting down? Maybe the AE is completely bereft of any leadership, but I somehow doubt it. Then these same people are going to be sitting in the same room in CAAFB meetings? Again, somehow, I doubt this. This move is likely to split the CAAFB apart, or maybe in two.

3. Monmouth provides very good hoops - in that sense, they are a great fit. But football-wise, as folks have mentioned, they are a reach because of their stadium. If they had some plan to get to 10,000, then it would be different, but are the other CAA schools fine with a team with a stadium of 4,000?

I think more than anything else about this move - if this is really a done deal, and I have serious doubts about this - is how desperate this all seems for the CAA. At best, all three moves are reaches. Not a single one of these moves on their merits is one which you can say "wow, this makes the CAA stronger/better/more stable". That says a ton to me.

1. Hampton is willing and able. They can fit the "CAA profile" and they give W&M and 2nd Virginia school. Its slim pickings and they are the best Virginia school on the table that is willing to come

2. I don't see CAA FB splitting apart. Adding Stony Brook, Monmouth, and Hampton gives the CAA 7 all sports members. Villanova and Richmond are not going to leave, so that is 8. Will Maine, UNH, URI, Albany really leave and form AEast football with 2 others like Robert Morris and CCSU? Getting Stony Brook in the CAA proper is long overdue and reasserts the CAA control over CAA Football and FCS football in the mid atlantic and northeast

3. Monmouth solidifies the North division with a solid all sports school on the rise

This CAA expansion is hardly exciting from this UNCW fans perspective, but I understand the logic behind it. I just hope that if going to 14 the southern schools are thrown a bone with a Campbell or Winthrop.

[Sitting Bull]

1.

I think more than anything else about this move - if this is really a done deal, and I have serious doubts about this - is how desperate this all seems for the CAA. At best, all three moves are reaches. Not a single one of these moves on their merits is one which you can say "wow, this makes the CAA stronger/better/more stable". That says a ton to me.

Not sure why you think it’s desperate. If they wanted they could just sit back and keep the league at 9 all and 11 football,

I think the CAAs current weakness is (was) they had only 5 core members - those who made the CAA home for all sports including football. That to me was the biggest threat to the league. What they have proactively done is move to solidify the core. All three adds bring the full boat of sports and gives the CAA now 7 core members;
Stony Brook, Monmouth, Delaware, Towson, W&M, Hampton, Elon.

That’s a fairly tight group geographically among schools with fairly tight objectives in common. It also keeps the football interest of Richmond and Villanova in check. That makes 7 with 2 critical football affiliates.

I think they need one more core but it’s not urgent. And I would like to see a VMI or Campbell as best options.

As far as Stony Brook, not sure why they would want to stay in the AEast given the choice. The CAA gives them better basketball, better baseball, better lacrosse, better exposure, now better travel. What’s the selling point to the AE?

So I would call the CAAs strategic, not desperate. You could probably open a better question on why the AE, Patriot (football) and So Con aren’t more aggressively looking to strengthen.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not sure why you think it’s desperate. If they wanted they could just sit back and keep the league at 9 all and 11 football.

The prosecution rests.

[Anthony215]

Monmouth's 4k stadium isn't an issue as what teams truly travel in large numbers? JMU probably had largest road fan attendance and they're gone. For games against Nova, Delaware, Towson if need be Monmouth could put temporary bleachers in the end zones to accommodate an extra 500-1000 fans. The township is strongly against stadium expansion just as Nova is dealing with the same issue with their local township hence why they couldn't move up to FBS when ODU, Coastal, App State and Liberty all took that jump up.

[Sitting Bull]

The prosecution rests.

On what? Did you not read the rationale? It’s strategy not desperation.

[mainejeff]

On what? Did you not read the rationale? It’s strategy not desperation.

Let's just call it both.

[aceinthehole]

2. I don't see CAA FB splitting apart. Adding Stony Brook, Monmouth, and Hampton gives the CAA 7 all sports members. Villanova and Richmond are not going to leave, so that is 8. Will Maine, UNH, URI, Albany really leave and form AEast football with 2 others like Robert Morris and CCSU? Getting Stony Brook in the CAA proper is long overdue and reasserts the CAA control over CAA Football and FCS football in the mid atlantic and northeast

You are correct, CAA Football won't split up because Maine, UNH, and Albany choose to leave and start America East football.

However, if CAA Football becomes too unwieldly, the CAA could simply decide to reincorporate football as a CAA-sponsored sport. Right now CAA Football is a separate conference structure administered by the CAA, but in the future nothing is stopping the 7 "core CAA Members" to sponsor football under the CAA charter and add only Richmond and Villanova as affiliates. That would be a 9-team league and there is nothing that Albany, UNH, Maine, and URI could do but start or join another conference with other schools.

It would be a hardball move, but it is very possible.

[Sitting Bull]

Let's just call it both.

You can call it whatever you want. It’s a smart, long term move by the CAA.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You are correct, CAA Football won't split up because Maine, UNH, and Albany choose to leave and start America East football.

However, if CAA Football becomes too unwieldly, the CAA could simply decide to reincorporate football as a CAA-sponsored sport. Right now CAA Football is a separate conference structure administered by the CAA, but in the future nothing is stopping the 7 "core CAA Members" to sponsor football under the CAA charter and add only Richmond and Villanova as affiliates. That would be a 9-team league and there is nothing that Albany, UNH, Maine, and URI could do but start or join another conference with other schools.

It would be a hardball move, but it is very possible.

Or Stony Brook, Albany, Maine, and UNH thumb their nose at the CAA deal, sign up URI, LIU, CCSU and Bryant as affiliates (or LIU, CCSU and Bryant as all-sports members), and form AE football on their own - saving boatloads on direct flights for football.

[solohawks]

Or Stony Brook, Albany, Maine, and UNH thumb their nose at the CAA deal, sign up URI, LIU, CCSU and Bryant as affiliates (or LIU, CCSU and Bryant as all-sports members), and form AE football on their own - saving boatloads on direct flights for football.

I have been told repeatedly that the northern most CAA football members do not want that to happen and would not initiate such an action.

[Sitting Bull]

Or Stony Brook, Albany, Maine, and UNH thumb their nose at the CAA deal, sign up URI, LIU, CCSU and Bryant as affiliates (or LIU, CCSU and Bryant as all-sports members), and form AE football on their own - saving boatloads on direct flights for football.

Now that looks like desperation.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have been told repeatedly that the northern most CAA football members do not want that to happen and would not initiate such an action.

That's fair - that could be the case. I don't know if that's how I would feel about it if I were them, but I could see that.

[UNHWildcat18]

Monmouth's 4k stadium isn't an issue as what teams truly travel in large numbers? JMU probably had largest road fan attendance and they're gone. For games against Nova, Delaware, Towson if need be Monmouth could put temporary bleachers in the end zones to accommodate an extra 500-1000 fans. The township is strongly against stadium expansion just as Nova is dealing with the same issue with their local township hence why they couldn't move up to FBS when ODU, Coastal, App State and Liberty all took that jump up.

It ridiculous that new schools such as SBU and Albany absolutely needed 8k minimum for membership but Monmouth is getting a pass. It’s also about image. For example, even if NDSU fit all of the checkboxes to be in the big ten and had all of the facilities except they still had the Fargodone….They wouldn’t be getting an invite. I’m happy for Monmouth fans as they have done well recently and must be happy with their new homeside, but the CAA is a big fish in the FCS world. I want UNH playing the biggest programs possible. Not seeing teams get a pass to join. Yeah yeah ODU and GSU were known to be temporary. Yes yes URI was grandfathered in and really needs to work on their stadium.

I know call me crazy because it’s small time FCS football. Same reason I’d kick down the door if UNH voluntarily traded Delaware and Villanova as football conference mates to play Robert Morris or St.Francis
Maybe I’m being harsh or blowing it out of proportions but all I know is UNH is going to have to start trading games VS Richmond,W&M and say Delaware to play Hampton and Monmouth. Sorry if I’m not enthusiastic

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Now that looks like desperation.

It looks very similar to the Yankee Conference in the 1970s, with CCSU and a bunch of NY schools in it instead of UConn/UMass.

[UNHWildcat18]

I have been told repeatedly that the northern most CAA football members do not want that to happen and would not initiate such an action.

correct. UNH UMaine SBU Ualbany URI are not trading Delaware Towson Villanova Richmond William and Mary….for anyone at the FCS

[aceinthehole]

Or Stony Brook, Albany, Maine, and UNH thumb their nose at the CAA deal, sign up URI, LIU, CCSU and Bryant as affiliates (or LIU, CCSU and Bryant as all-sports members), and form AE football on their own - saving boatloads on direct flights for football.

LFN - your dreaming. SBU is a done deal to the CAA.

Maine and UNH are desperate to keep their affiliation with the CAA Football programs. No way on earth do they CHOOSE to have a football league with CCSU, LIU, and Bryant. Basically, they would be joining the NEC.

My point was the CAA could have a 9-team, 8-game football schedule that stretches from Stony Brook to Elon, a compact footprint. Fact is UNH and Maine need Delaware and W&M more than those schools need New England (plus Albany and URI).

Not that the CAA is great, but they have had a huge leg up on America East ever since the AE-4 departed. Fact is that Maine and New Hampshire are just becoming more isolated by geography.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN - your dreaming. SBU is a done deal to the CAA.

Maine and UNH are desperate to keep their affiliation with the CAA Football programs. No way on earth do they CHOOSE to have a football league with CCSU, LIU, and Bryant. Basically, they would be joining the NEC.

It is true they may be desperate to keep playing Delaware, Richmond, and William and Mary, but the schools they're getting are Hampton and Monmouth, one of which has a Patriot League stadium and the other is Hampton, who averaged less than 6,000 per home game in 2019.

[WestCoastAggie]

It is true they may be desperate to keep playing Delaware, Richmond, and William and Mary, but the schools they're getting are Hampton and Monmouth, one of which has a Patriot League stadium and the other is Hampton, who averaged less than 6,000 per home game in 2019.

Hampton's home game average shouldn't matter here.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....PUTTIN' TO MUCH EMPHASIS..ON ATTENDIN'.........MARQUI GAME.......N. DAKOTA STATE @ DELAWARE.......WAS UH PITIFUL TURN-OUT...DAT DUH AD SKEDDED....TA PUMP INTEREST....IN PECKERHEAD PIGGY......DIFFFERENT TIMES LADS.........&...TA BOOT....HONEY WE SHRUNK DUH STADIUM.....xsighx....BRAWK!

[Sitting Bull]

Hampton's home game average shouldn't matter here.

I don’t see it as a big problem. 6,000 avg is higher than URI, Albany and Maine most years and more than most PL teams. I expect their attendance will pump up a bit in the CAA.

[mainejeff]

You are correct, CAA Football won't split up because Maine, UNH, and Albany choose to leave and start America East football.

However, if CAA Football becomes too unwieldly, the CAA could simply decide to reincorporate football as a CAA-sponsored sport. Right now CAA Football is a separate conference structure administered by the CAA, but in the future nothing is stopping the 7 "core CAA Members" to sponsor football under the CAA charter and add only Richmond and Villanova as affiliates. That would be a 9-team league and there is nothing that Albany, UNH, Maine, and URI could do but start or join another conference with other schools.

It would be a hardball move, but it is very possible.

And knowing the history of this conference and schools involved....quite likely. Delaware & Co. are sneaky SOBs.

[mainejeff]

I don’t see it as a big problem. 6,000 avg is higher than URI, Albany and Maine most years and more than most PL teams. I expect their attendance will pump up a bit in the CAA.

Newness always attracts attention....at least for 1 season.

[aceinthehole]

And knowing the history of this conference and schools involved....quite likely. Delaware & Co. are sneaky SOBs.


MJ - I'm not betting that this scenario will happen, but you're right - this is absolutely something the CAA may decide to do in the future. It cleans up the hybrid issue of CAA/CAA Football and puts the total power and control in the hands of the 7 core members, instead of sharing it with the New England schools.

As I said, that would be a real hardball move and a big FU to you guys up North, so I doubt they would do this unless it was really required to maintain the interest of the "Core" members

[NY Crusader 2010]

LFN - your dreaming. SBU is a done deal to the CAA.

Maine and UNH are desperate to keep their affiliation with the CAA Football programs. No way on earth do they CHOOSE to have a football league with CCSU, LIU, and Bryant. Basically, they would be joining the NEC.

My point was the CAA could have a 9-team, 8-game football schedule that stretches from Stony Brook to Elon, a compact footprint. Fact is UNH and Maine need Delaware and W&M more than those schools need New England (plus Albany and URI).

Not that the CAA is great, but they have had a huge leg up on America East ever since the AE-4 departed. Fact is that Maine and New Hampshire are just becoming more isolated by geography.

If you're talking about football, it's not so bad for those two now that Albany is in the league and after URI reneged on their decision to drop to NEC in football ten years ago. There was a short period of time when UNH and Maine were about to end up on an island with Villanova and Delaware being the closest football opponents. This was right after Northeastern and Hofstra abruptly dropped their programs and, at the time, there were legitimate, albeit brief, football talks happening between the Patriot League and UNH/Maine.

[caribbeanhen]

I don’t see it as a big problem. 6,000 avg is higher than URI, Albany and Maine most years and more than most PL teams. I expect their attendance will pump up a bit in the CAA.

except the actual attendance is so much lower, only a few hundred people were at G Webb game this year

[aceinthehole]

If you're talking about football, it's not so bad for those two now that Albany is in the league and after URI reneged on their decision to drop to NEC in football ten years ago. There was a short period of time when UNH and Maine were about to end up on an island with Villanova and Delaware being the closest football opponents. This was right after Northeastern and Hofstra abruptly dropped their programs and, at the time, there were legitimate, albeit brief, football talks happening between the Patriot League and UNH/Maine.

No, my point was all sports confernce.

Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are very good schools. All 3 are flagship State universities and have solid athletic programs. They have a history of playing alongside the 3 bigger New England universities (UConn, UMass, and URI) and their academics are top notch. But compared to their former peers, they are smaller schools and have been left behind in in major college athletics. Part of that is the size and nature of those 3 States compared to the others.

But the simple fact is the former AE members (NU, Delaware, Towson, Drexel, Hofstra, and now SBU) all wanted to join with larger schools in the the Mid-Atlantic. This is an area where they wanted more exposure to grow their student population. Once the AE declined to merge with the CAA in the early 2000s and instead the A-4 defected, the AE has been slotted behind every regional conference except the NEC. Sure the SUNY-3 were a great add, but that was somewhat luck. The SUNYs got to D-I late in the game and were prime and willing candidates at the time of defections. If things were different, those schools would have joined the NEC. UMBC, Lowell, and NJIT have also fit the AE mold very well, but let's be honest the CAA was never interested in any of them at all.

The Northern New England Universities are harmed by geography (rural and very far North) and the population decline/exodus out of the New England toward the South. IMO - that and shifting demographics are playing a much bigger role than the schools' academic or athletic profile.

For football, UNH, Maine and URI greatly value the association with the Mid-Atlantic members, but I honestly don't think the feeling is reciprocated. Yes, New Hampshire desperately wants to keep its football league membership with Delaware and William and Mary as rivals, but do you think those 2 school really care if UNH, Maine and URI weren't in their league? I doubt they would care at all - they are more than willing to play Elon, Monmouth, and Stony Brook now.

As I said before, UNH and Maine need UD and W&M in football a lot more than those schools need the Wildcats and Black Bears.

[Laker]

No, my point was all sports confernce.

I miss the Yankee Conference. I miss Vermont having a football team.

[KPSUL]

The Northern New England Universities are harmed by geography (rural and very far North) and the population decline/exodus out of the New England toward the South. IMO - that and shifting demographics are playing a much bigger role than the schools' academic or athletic profile.


Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont have all experienced moderate population growth during both of the previous two decades. UNH is only a little more than an hour from Boston by car. It could best be described as a classic and affluent college town located a short drive from a very trendy small city - Portsmouth. Hardly what most people consider rural. Here a video for your enjoyment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooz7LdiUQkc

[DFW HOYA]

Who owns the trademarks to the Yankee Conference? Maybe it's time to give that a second look.

[aceinthehole]

Sure, Burlington are Durham are "classic and affluent college towns." Ok, "moderate growth" if that makes you feel better.

But I think you know the larger point I was making regarding geography and demographics. Again, I'm not knocking those schools/states - Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine - but let's be realistic the U.S. trend right now for population and economic growth is greater outside this region. As I've said, CCSU would be like to affiliate with the schools, but I also understand why a Monmouth or SBU would rather join the CAA

Population Growth by State (2010 to 2020 Census)
Maine - 2.6%
Vermont - 2.8%
New Hampshire - 4.6%

vs.

Virginia - 7.9%
North Carolina - 9.5%
Delaware - 10.2 %

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UNH may feel a kinship/small r rivalry with Delaware and Villanova, and even though they're far away, Richmond and W&M. But do they with Towson, Hampton, Elon, and Monmouth? What does UNH or Maine have in common with THEM?

[WestCoastAggie]

UNH may feel a kinship/small r rivalry with Delaware and Villanova, and even though they're far away, Richmond and W&M. But do they with Towson, Hampton, Elon, and Monmouth? What does UNH or Maine have in common with THEM?

Those AE schools need a place to park their football teams. You'd be surprised what Administrations are actually looking at when it comes to conference affiliation. Let's put it like this... If football was truly a value-added proposition for the schools you mentioned, there would be a true FBS conference in the Northeast.

[mainejeff]

UNH and Maine serve a purpose for CAA Football.....while they are "outposts".....I also think that the CAA would totally lose New England interest and recruiting if they were no longer in the league. URI would probably drop the sport as well. No one wants to be the Northern outpost of anything......but Maine has embraced this moniker better than anyone could have. Seriously.....think about it. Geography....weather....travel....poor state. If UMaine had been located in Southern Maine/Portland area.....it might have been a different story......but I'm not sure they would have anymore success than they have had.

[Dave195]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1483910945881665536

2 to 4 more?

[walliver]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1483910945881665536

2 to 4 more?

Are they trying to outdo the SEC?

In a way, I can see expansion as a safety net after the NCAA reinvents itself and teams move around, but adding up to 4 teams seems like a large unwieldly conference.

[Dane96]

If the need to split it will be north south lines. That's what the next adds will shore up.

[solohawks]

From an all sports perspective, two geographic 8 team divisions that have little to no interaction with each other wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

If you finish in the top of the division you would still only play 3 conference tournament games to win the auto bid.

[WestCoastAggie]

This could be the beginning to re-create the Yankee Conference.

[aceinthehole]

From an all sports perspective, two geographic 8 team divisions that have little to no interaction with each other wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

If you finish in the top of the division you would still only play 3 conference tournament games to win the auto bid.

No - only one AQ. You would need 4 wins.

What would the conference tourney look like in a 16 team, 2 division set up? How many would "qualify" for the tourney?

[UNHWildcat18]

If the need to split it will be north south lines. That's what the next adds will shore up.

Add another 2-4 teams, to what end? Next thing you know CAA FB will include UNA and ST.Francis

- - - Updated - - -


This could be the beginning to re-create the Yankee Conference.

How do you figure?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The real problem here is twofold. (Northeast here being defined as from Charlotte, North Carolina to Maine, including Virginia and West Virginia)

1. Every "Northeast" conference wants to make zero, or only minor, changes to their basketball conferences as they stand today. The three schools at play here, Hampton, Monmouth, and Stony Brook, are doing this to upgrade basketball. Football is a distant consideration.

2. Every basketball conference affiliation is horrible in terms of creating a FCS football conference. The NEC stretches from Pittsburgh to Massachusetts. The Patriot League from Massachusetts to DC. The CAA stretches from the Charlotte area to Orono, Maine. Don't even get started on the A-10 and Big East schools fielding FCS teams. Those affiliations make for nightmarish conference trips in what is ostensibly cost-containment football that is supposed to in large part sustain on local Rivalries. Even the Ivy League suffers from this problem to some degree.

In the olden days, most of the Eastern football-playing schools solved this by having no conference affiliation (ex. Penn State) or had only the loosest confederation of schools for football (the Yankee Conference). Those days are long gone, but... it's tempting to simply take every FCS football program from Charlotte to Orono and simply make 8 team regional divisions, each with their own autobid. I mean, at the end of the day, don't Holy Cross fans mostly want to see them play UNH and Maine instead of Bucknell and Georgetown? Wouldn't UNH fans rather see them play Dartmouth rather than Elon? Wouldn't Lehigh fans want to see games against Delaware? It's as if the weird 50 year politics of arcane hoops conference affiliations are preventing the real, best solution - that "Northeast" football shouldn't only be one Yankee Conference, but a whole bunch of them.

[DFW HOYA]

Because while it'll never, ever happen, the old ECAC-style regional setups in basketball could apply to non-Ivy, football-only setups: seven games in conference, opportunities for FBS game and cross-league rivalries.

Yankee Conference (8): Bryant, Central Connecticut, Holy Cross, Maine, Merrimack, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart.

Empire Conference: (8): Albany, Colgate, Fordham, LIU, Marist, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Wagner

Keystone Conference (9): Bucknell, Delaware, Delaware St., Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, St. Francis, Villanova

Chesapeake Conference (8): Georgetown, Howard, Hampton, Morgan St., Norfolk St., Richmond, Towson, William & Mary

Piedmont Conference (8): Campbell, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, Elon, NC A&T, NC Central, VMI, Western Carolina

South Atlantic Conference (8) : The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Furman, Kennesaw St., Mercer, Wofford, Presbyterian, SC State

(Apologies in advance if I missed someone.)

[Dave195]

Who do we think these 2-4 teams for future CAA expansion could be? Keep in mind North/South and 🏈. Guesses for me include Howard, UNCG, Fairfield, Albany. Any others?

[WestCoastAggie]

How do you figure?

With 2 8-team divisions, you could see a CAA Division (South) and a Yankee Division (North). Then they could always split them and have 2 AQs. It’s a bit far fetched but with 16 football programs, it’s possible, I suppose.

[WestCoastAggie]

No - only one AQ. You would need 4 wins.

What would the conference tourney look like in a 16 team, 2 division set up? How many would "qualify" for the tourney?

that’s easy in basketball; top 3 or 4 from each division make the tournament.

[WestCoastAggie]

Who do we think these 2-4 teams for future CAA expansion could be? Keep in mind North/South and . Guesses for me include Howard, UNCG, Fairfield, Albany. Any others?

You gotta think Furman and Wofford are being considered too. Maybe even NC A&T or Iona.

[WestCoastAggie]

Because while it'll never, ever happen, the old ECAC-style regional setups in basketball could apply to non-Ivy, football-only setups: seven games in conference, opportunities for FBS game and cross-league rivalries.

Yankee Conference (8): Bryant, Central Connecticut, Holy Cross, Maine, Merrimack, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart.

Empire Conference: (8): Albany, Colgate, Fordham, LIU, Marist, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Wagner

Keystone Conference (9): Bucknell, Delaware, Delaware St., Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, St. Francis, Villanova

Chesapeake Conference (8): Georgetown, Howard, Hampton, Morgan St., Norfolk St., Richmond, Towson, William & Mary

Piedmont Conference (8): Campbell, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, Elon, NC A&T, NC Central, VMI, Western Carolina

South Atlantic Conference (8) : The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Furman, Kennesaw St., Mercer, Wofford, Presbyterian, SC State

(Apologies in advance if I missed someone.)

Way too many egos and raw feelings are out here for this ever logical setup for football to occur.

[KPSUL]

Sure, Burlington are Durham are "classic and affluent college towns." Ok, "moderate growth" if that makes you feel better.

But I think you know the larger point I was making regarding geography and demographics. Again, I'm not knocking those schools/states - Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine - but let's be realistic the U.S. trend right now for population and economic growth is greater outside this region. As I've said, CCSU would be like to affiliate with the schools, but I also understand why a Monmouth or SBU would rather join the CAA

Population Growth by State (2010 to 2020 Census)

Maine - 2.6%
Vermont - 2.8%
New Hampshire - 4.6%

vs.

Virginia - 7.9%
North Carolina - 9.5%
Delaware - 10.2 %

The Northern New England numbers look about right - for the 10 years 2010-20. There has been a mini boom over the last two pandemic years due to flat-landers who can telework moving up. There are also about 200,000 vacation homes that are owned by property tax paying folks from Southern New England, NY and NJ who become quite attached to this area. But anyway, I'm sure that most folks living in the north country are very happy with those moderate growth numbers. Haven't you ever been up to New Hampsha and seen the bumper sticker saying, "WELCOME TO NEW HAMSHIRE, NOW GO HOME" ?

But no, I don't get your point, large or small. Not even the most serious fans are perseverating over the future of UNH football. Your posts, as well as a number of others to this thread, have begun to read like the Chicken Little threads created about the sky always falling all over the Patriot League. I'm confident that the UNH decision-makers are satisfied with the CAA for football, Hockey East for Hockey, the whatever it is for Gymnastics and the AE for everything else. I also think there is zero chance that the CAA Football is going to cast off the two teams that have provided the best playoff performances for the conference over the past 10 years now that JMU has departed for the slum belt.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Because while it'll never, ever happen, the old ECAC-style regional setups in basketball could apply to non-Ivy, football-only setups: seven games in conference, opportunities for FBS game and cross-league rivalries.

Yankee Conference (8): Bryant, Central Connecticut, Holy Cross, Maine, Merrimack, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart.

Empire Conference: (8): Albany, Colgate, Fordham, LIU, Marist, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Wagner

Keystone Conference (9): Bucknell, Delaware, Delaware St., Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, St. Francis, Villanova

Chesapeake Conference (8): Georgetown, Howard, Hampton, Morgan St., Norfolk St., Richmond, Towson, William & Mary

Piedmont Conference (8): Campbell, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, Elon, NC A&T, NC Central, VMI, Western Carolina

South Atlantic Conference (8) : The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Furman, Kennesaw St., Mercer, Wofford, Presbyterian, SC State

(Apologies in advance if I missed someone.)

1987-88 Northeast Mid-Major College Hoops
East Coast Conference - Bucknell, Delaware, Drexel, Hofstra, Lafayette, Lehigh, Rider, Towson
ECAC North - Boston U., Canisius, Colgate, Hartford, Maine, New Hampshire, Niagra, Northeastern, Siena, Vermont
MAAC - Army, Fairfield, Fordham, Holy Cross, Iona, La Salle, Manhattan, St. Peter's.

34 years later, these arrangements almost make " too much sense". How did these institutions ever coexist together? The Patriot League honestly did Northeast college athletics zero favors. What it set out to be never was truly possible. The Ivy League schools had the power to be insular. The PL schools were "never good enough" to make it work either academically or athletically. It's a conference that lives forever in compromise...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Way too many egos and raw feelings are out here for this ever logical setup for football to occur.

So true....

[mainejeff]

Maybe it's time to think outside the box and shock the CAA....

Patriot League Football:

Maine
UNH
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown

Is that really so bad?

For hoops....

East Division:

Maine
UNH
Vermont
Boston U
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate

West Division:

Army
Navy
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
American
Loyola Maryland

[UNHWildcat18]

Maybe it's time to think outside the box and shock the CAA....

Patriot League Football:

Maine
UNH
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown

Is that really so bad?

For hoops....

East Division:

Maine
UNH
Vermont
Boston U
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate

West Division:

Army
Navy
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
American
Loyola Maryland

Not to be a downer but I'm not trading the CAAFB teams for PL football teams..... or the stupid no redshirt rule in the PL.. BARF

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not to be a downer but I'm not trading the CAAFB teams for PL football teams..... or the stupid no redshirt rule in the PL.. BARF

It's not the teams or schools! IMO, the PL has quality schools and some great stadiums to spend a fall afternoon at. It's also a league that's capable of producing a good team (very much singular) most years that are on par with the top teams in FCS (i.e. a legit Top 15-20 team). However, the PL's ridiculous set of arbitrary, ego based, rules kills its ultimate appeal!

[solohawks]

No - only one AQ. You would need 4 wins.

What would the conference tourney look like in a 16 team, 2 division set up? How many would "qualify" for the tourney?

Same way the Big East did

Bottom 8 would have to win 5 consecutive

5 through 9 would have to win 4 consecutive

4 through 1 would have to win 3 consecutive

Doing it by divisions you would the top 2 in each division would get a double bye

[ElCid]

Because while it'll never, ever happen, the old ECAC-style regional setups in basketball could apply to non-Ivy, football-only setups: seven games in conference, opportunities for FBS game and cross-league rivalries.

Yankee Conference (8): Bryant, Central Connecticut, Holy Cross, Maine, Merrimack, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Sacred Heart.

Empire Conference: (8): Albany, Colgate, Fordham, LIU, Marist, Monmouth, Stony Brook, Wagner

Keystone Conference (9): Bucknell, Delaware, Delaware St., Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, St. Francis, Villanova

Chesapeake Conference (8): Georgetown, Howard, Hampton, Morgan St., Norfolk St., Richmond, Towson, William & Mary

Piedmont Conference (8): Campbell, Davidson, Gardner-Webb, Elon, NC A&T, NC Central, VMI, Western Carolina

South Atlantic Conference (8) : The Citadel, Charleston Southern, Furman, Kennesaw St., Mercer, Wofford, Presbyterian, SC State

(Apologies in advance if I missed someone.)

I guess that leaves ETSU, UTC, and Samford out in the cold.

[OhioHen]

Keystone Conference (9): Bucknell, Delaware, Delaware St., Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, St. Francis, Villanova

Chesapeake Conference (8): Georgetown, Howard, Hampton, Morgan St., Norfolk St., Richmond, Towson, William & Mary


Delaware State would better fit your Chesapeake Conference than your Keystone Conference. Closer geographic proximity coupled with historic conference ties to four teams rather than none.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Maybe it's time to think outside the box and shock the CAA....

Patriot League Football:

Maine
UNH
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Georgetown

Is that really so bad?

For hoops....

East Division:

Maine
UNH
Vermont
Boston U
Holy Cross
Albany
Colgate
Fairfield

West Division:

Army
Navy
Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
American
Loyola Maryland
UMBC

10 team football, and with those two non-FB additions to the bottom, a really, really killer hoops setup, too.

[mainejeff]

10 team football, and with those two non-FB additions to the bottom, a really, really killer hoops setup, too.

That would be incredible.....it might be too late to grab Albany as they are reportedly in the next round of CAA expansion. The CAA is moving at lightspeed....the early bird gets the worm.

[solohawks]

That would be incredible.....it might be too late to grab Albany as they are reportedly in the next round of CAA expansion. The CAA is moving at lightspeed....the early bird gets the worm.

Hadn't seen that one yet....is that being reported anywhere or is in the message board chatter phase?

[aceinthehole]

Hadn't seen that one yet....is that being reported anywhere or is in the message board chatter phase?

NY Newsday (subscription)

https://www.newsday.com/sports/college/stony-brook-caa-hofstra-1.50481959

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That would be incredible.....it might be too late to grab Albany as they are reportedly in the next round of CAA expansion. The CAA is moving at lightspeed....the early bird gets the worm.

If the early bird gets the worm, the PL won't get getting anything.

[aceinthehole]

One league with the potential to be dissolved because of this current realignment phase is the Northeast Conference once the MAAC and AE picks it apart for scraps.

Some NEC schools will find a soft landing in these 2 leagues, but others may be on the outside looking in for a while.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Seems relevant.

“I’m a pessimist about the current state of Division I and college athletics. I believe it needs to implode, truly implode." America East commish Amy Huchthausen.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/20/ncaa-future-power-5-football-basketball-money

[Dane96]

Seems relevant.

“I’m a pessimist about the current state of Division I and college athletics. I believe it needs to implode, truly implode." America East commish Amy Huchthausen.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/01/20/ncaa-future-power-5-football-basketball-money

Yep, many of us have been saying it for years...NIL has brought this to a public head. It's got to, and will change. The landscape will look more 1970's than 2000's within 5 years. Bank it.

[mainejeff]

Remember when winning the ECACs was everything?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Weird to me that Amy Huchthausen is for "imploding" the one very thing that gives her conference national relevance, which is Vermont Catamount basketball. (Also to a lesser extent UMBC athletics)

[Hamptonite]

Hello CAA its the Hamptonians sharing our views on the Hampton to CAA rumor check out our podcast

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5b8pcZmTNxojT4onDRwJqY?si=7a07f532f92e48fa

https://soundcloud.com/thehupirateship/hampton-is-caa-bound-probably

[Tribe4SF]

Hello CAA its the Hamptonians sharing our views on the Hampton to CAA rumor check out our podcast

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5b8pcZmTNxojT4onDRwJqY?si=7a07f532f92e48fa

https://soundcloud.com/thehupirateship/hampton-is-caa-bound-probably

Glad to see you here!

[Dane96]

Weird to me that Amy Huchthausen is for "imploding" the one very thing that gives her conference national relevance, which is Vermont Catamount basketball. (Also to a lesser extent UMBC athletics)

She doesn't work for the AE any longer.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

She doesn't work for the AE any longer.

Sorry about that - of course you're right. (My original tweet source clarified that.) She's the former AE commissioner, and apparently her tenure was such that she feels like the NCAA needs to blow up their system.

[Dane96]

Her departure was shocking for many; I think this explains it a bit.

[Blue Waves Crest]

The relationship between Monmouth and ESPN might be what the CAA wants the most in this deal. In either case of a football only or all sports move to CAA, I would think the ESPN relationship is in play somehow.

Do you think Monmouth keeps its independent ESPN contract? Remember, we were one of the first mid majors with our own contract like this which used student production and was later incorporated into the communications/broadcasting academic program.

Options seem to be as follows:
1) Monmouth retains own ESPN contract, home games on ESPN, road CAA games on FLO
2) Monmouth has to terminate ESPN contract, full FLO rights like rest of CAA
3) CAA leverages Monmouth's contract with ESPN to eventually ditch FLO

#1 seems the path of least resistance. #2 would really suck, this would likely tank our broadcasting/comm program which the school has put a lot of money into. ESPN on our graduates' resumes has really helped their careers and been a key selling point for the academic program. #3 I'm not sure how much Monmouth is paying for the ESPN rights and whether its enough to give the CAA an inroad into that opportunity for the rest of the league. We played a big part in the MAAC's league-wide adoption of on campus ESPN broadcasting capabilities, I believe 2018 was the first season every MAAC game was on ESPN and its been that way since. It's been really nice, Big South eventually did the same.

There has to be significant private developments in this regard. I'm not too jacked up about needing to get FLO but im stoked to be in a league thats a sensible home for all of our sports. Its been very difficult to be jacked up about Monmouth football over the last several years and have to explain the far-flung teams on the league schedule to locals. Big South served us well and took us in when there wasn't much to take in, so really thankful to them for everything they did for us. I hope they're able to keep the football league together, they have some cool fans who love their teams. Will absolutely miss the MAAC and being in the closest geographical conference in D1, but I won't miss the high school gyms at most of the schools.

Is FLO that bad?

[NY Crusader 2010]

I'm a William & Mary fan and already have an ESPN+ account since the Patriot League switched over there from Stadium. Would love to see CAA go over there.

Also, as much as ESPN as a network has been in decline that last 15 years, there mobile app is one of the best. I had been using theScore app for a number of years and recently ditched it.

[DFW HOYA]

Options seem to be as follows:
1) Monmouth retains own ESPN contract, home games on ESPN, road CAA games on FLO
2) Monmouth has to terminate ESPN contract, full FLO rights like rest of CAA
3) CAA leverages Monmouth's contract with ESPN to eventually ditch FLO



Most likely, #2. Joining a conference requires joining the conference's media rights.

[solohawks]

I'm rooting for exception. That would be a good sign that Flo is going away after next year

[DFW HOYA]

Sorry about that - of course you're right. (My original tweet source clarified that.) She's the former AE commissioner, and apparently her tenure was such that she feels like the NCAA needs to blow up their system.

It's popular to say the NCAA needs to blow up their system, but no one has yet offered a coherent alternative for 1000 different schools, 25 different sports, and keeping an even keel for 250,000 students athletes. It's not enough to build a system for Penn State when you don't address Clarion or Carnegie-Mellon as well.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Do you think Monmouth keeps its independent ESPN contract? Remember, we were one of the first mid majors with our own contract like this which used student production and was later incorporated into the communications/broadcasting academic program.

Options seem to be as follows:
1) Monmouth retains own ESPN contract, home games on ESPN, road CAA games on FLO
2) Monmouth has to terminate ESPN contract, full FLO rights like rest of CAA
3) CAA leverages Monmouth's contract with ESPN to eventually ditch FLO

#1 seems the path of least resistance. #2 would really suck, this would likely tank our broadcasting/comm program which the school has put a lot of money into. ESPN on our graduates' resumes has really helped their careers and been a key selling point for the academic program. #3 I'm not sure how much Monmouth is paying for the ESPN rights and whether its enough to give the CAA an inroad into that opportunity for the rest of the league. We played a big part in the MAAC's league-wide adoption of on campus ESPN broadcasting capabilities, I believe 2018 was the first season every MAAC game was on ESPN and its been that way since. It's been really nice, Big South eventually did the same.

There has to be significant private developments in this regard. I'm not too jacked up about needing to get FLO but im stoked to be in a league thats a sensible home for all of our sports. Its been very difficult to be jacked up about Monmouth football over the last several years and have to explain the far-flung teams on the league schedule to locals. Big South served us well and took us in when there wasn't much to take in, so really thankful to them for everything they did for us. I hope they're able to keep the football league together, they have some cool fans who love their teams. Will absolutely miss the MAAC and being in the closest geographical conference in D1, but I won't miss the high school gyms at most of the schools.

Is FLO that bad?


.......DELAWARE FAN....SINCE 6th GRADE........AH DON'T HAVE FLO!!!.........xsmhxxsmhxxsmhx...............BRAWK !

[BigBlueMU]

Do you think Monmouth keeps its independent ESPN contract? Remember, we were one of the first mid majors with our own contract like this which used student production and was later incorporated into the communications/broadcasting academic program.

Options seem to be as follows:
1) Monmouth retains own ESPN contract, home games on ESPN, road CAA games on FLO
2) Monmouth has to terminate ESPN contract, full FLO rights like rest of CAA
3) CAA leverages Monmouth's contract with ESPN to eventually ditch FLO

#1 seems the path of least resistance. #2 would really suck, this would likely tank our broadcasting/comm program which the school has put a lot of money into. ESPN on our graduates' resumes has really helped their careers and been a key selling point for the academic program. #3 I'm not sure how much Monmouth is paying for the ESPN rights and whether its enough to give the CAA an inroad into that opportunity for the rest of the league. We played a big part in the MAAC's league-wide adoption of on campus ESPN broadcasting capabilities, I believe 2018 was the first season every MAAC game was on ESPN and its been that way since. It's been really nice, Big South eventually did the same.

There has to be significant private developments in this regard. I'm not too jacked up about needing to get FLO but im stoked to be in a league thats a sensible home for all of our sports. Its been very difficult to be jacked up about Monmouth football over the last several years and have to explain the far-flung teams on the league schedule to locals. Big South served us well and took us in when there wasn't much to take in, so really thankful to them for everything they did for us. I hope they're able to keep the football league together, they have some cool fans who love their teams. Will absolutely miss the MAAC and being in the closest geographical conference in D1, but I won't miss the high school gyms at most of the schools.

Is FLO that bad?

I have a feeling its option #3. CAA leverages MU for the ESPN contract and looks the other way on the 4k stadium.

[MR. CHICKEN]

...AH'M GOIN'...WHIFF CURTAIN #2........JOIN CAA....WELCOME TA CAA PROBS...AWK!

[iBOsbu]

I’m hoping for option 3 too.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Monmouth fans better prepare to pay for FLO subscriptions.

[ElCid]

I'm a William & Mary fan and already have an ESPN+ account since the Patriot League switched over there from Stadium. Would love to see CAA go over there.

Also, as much as ESPN as a network has been in decline that last 15 years, there mobile app is one of the best. I had been using theScore app for a number of years and recently ditched it.

In general I hate ESPN. Their announcers are artificial, annoying, and occasionally poorly informed. Not to mention every time they seem to delve into non sports issues. But for raw score/boxscore data I use their app. I did get ESPN+ back the first week of Sept and promptly cancelled it first week of Jan. It was good for seeing lots of teams I don't get to normally see. Over the season I probably saw at least 50 teams play for a quarter or more, sans the CAA. And of course I got to see all my non-televised Bulldog games. Great for making poll decisions. $7+ a month for 4 months or about $29. Not bad.

[Laker]

In general I hate ESPN. Their announcers are artificial, annoying, and occasionally poorly informed. Not to mention every time they seem to delve into non sports issues..

When ESPN concentrates on sports they are following the reason why I am tuned in. When they concentrate on trying to mold social attitudes I turn them off. I'll watch all kinds of other options-ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NBC etc if that is my desire.

Since they do insist on social commentary- just wondering why they aren't commenting on the Warriors owner. Oh yes, their Chinese masters wouldn't like that.

[Dane96]

When ESPN concentrates on sports they are following the reason why I am tuned in. When they concentrate on trying to mold social attitudes I turn them off. I'll watch all kinds of other options-ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NBC etc if that is my desire.

Since they do insist on social commentary- just wondering why they aren't commenting on the Warriors owner. Oh yes, their Chinese masters wouldn't like that.

Take that **** to a different part of this forum.

[Libertine]

Monmouth fans better prepare to pay for FLO subscriptions.

This. Unless you're Texas, conference TV contracts trump school contracts.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I have a feeling its option #3. CAA leverages MU for the ESPN contract and looks the other way on the 4k stadium.

.....'CORDIN' TA NEWS JOURNAL......CAA WAS IMPRESSED BAH MONMOUTH'S...... $16 MILLION UPGRADES TA FOOTBALL'S KESSLER STADIUM.....AN' ROUND BALL...IN...$57 MILLION OceanFirst Bank Center....AWK!

[Laker]

.....'CORDIN' TA NEWS JOURNAL......CAA WAS IMPRESSED BAH MONMOUTH'S...... $16 MILLION UPGRADES TA FOOTBALL'S KESSLER STADIUM.....AN' ROUND BALL...IN...$57 MILLION OceanFirst Bank Center....AWK!

Is the news report making it official coming out today? I haven't heard anything yet.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....THIS WAS IN WEDNESDAY'S EDITION JAN. 19TH......."MONMOUTH IS TAKING ITS ATHLETIC TEAMS TO THE CAA, WITH THE MOVE TO BE FINALIZED AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK, SOURCES WITH KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITUATION HAVE TOLD THE ASBURY PARK PRESS"......HAVIN' TROUBLE WHIFF LINK...xembarrassedx...AWK!

[UNHWildcat18]

.....'CORDIN' TA NEWS JOURNAL......CAA WAS IMPRESSED BAH MONMOUTH'S...... $16 MILLION UPGRADES TA FOOTBALL'S KESSLER STADIUM.....AN' ROUND BALL...IN...$57 MILLION OceanFirst Bank Center....AWK!

Oh please you know they were saying that to justify the move. They made Albany have 8k minimum, I am sure they aren't actually happy its a 4k capacity for life... They just need to say things like that.

Also its a decent homeside and the fans should be happy......Just won't ever get larger...

[MR. CHICKEN]

Oh please you know they were saying that to justify the move. They made Albany have 8k minimum, I am sure they aren't actually happy its a 4k capacity for life... They just need to say things like that.

Also its a decent homeside and the fans should be happy......Just won't ever get larger...

......WHAA NOT......NOBODAH GOES ANYMORE........WE REMOVED SEATS....AN' DUH PLACE WAS HALF EMPTY......FO' UH GAME AGIN'.....#1...N. DAKOTAH STATE......THIS STUFF IS JES' FALLACY.....LIKE DUH NOTION....TEAMS WERE SEEDED.....1-16......WHEN WE WERE @ 16......DEY JES JUGGLED DUH RANKIN'S......TA WHERE TRAVEL WORKED OUT.....GEEEESH...DUH BIZONSSSS ARE CRYIN'....'BOUT EMPTY SEATS....TOO.......WHAA BUILD IT SO BIG......DAT IT....ECHOES.....??......AWK!

....YOU-DEE USED TA HAVE BEST TRAVELLIN' FANS AROUND......AWK!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh please you know they were saying that to justify the move. They made Albany have 8k minimum, I am sure they aren't actually happy its a 4k capacity for life... They just need to say things like that.

Also its a decent homeside and the fans should be happy......Just won't ever get larger...

Again, if you take Monmouth and Hampton's additions on their own merits, they are, at best, reaches for football membership (Monmouth on facilities, Hampton on endowment/athletics spending). Stony Brook is a fine addition - however, they're already in CAA football, so they are a net neutral. The fact that Monmouth and Hampton are reaches is what gives me the impression, rightly or wrongly, that these are desperation moves rather than "making the CAA great" moves. The fact that things like Monmouth's ESPN+ contract weren't fully vetted and thrashed out only adds to the idea that this has been slapped together quickly.

And to be clear - Monmouth's stadium is pretty nice overall. Just small and against the CAA's apparently arbitrary rules.

[Libertine]

Again, if you take Monmouth and Hampton's additions on their own merits, they are, at best, reaches for football membership (Monmouth on facilities, Hampton on endowment/athletics spending). Stony Brook is a fine addition - however, they're already in CAA football, so they are a net neutral. The fact that Monmouth and Hampton are reaches is what gives me the impression, rightly or wrongly, that these are desperation moves rather than "making the CAA great" moves. The fact that things like Monmouth's ESPN+ contract weren't fully vetted and thrashed out only adds to the idea that this has been slapped together quickly.

This is what makes me wonder about the timing of the whole thing. Why now? On paper, the CAA is losing JMU of course but is still plenty strong enough not to need to add Monmouth et al., on their own merits. Is the conference bolstering itself against further defections and, if so, who else is looking to leave?

[Libertine]

One other idea to float here: what if this is all a facade? Every article I've read on this quotes "multiple reports" or multiple sources without naming a single person who has actual information on the move. So, what if there aren't any? What if Monmouth and Hampton approached the CAA, the CAA considered but tabled the idea yet word got out about MU and HU talking to the Colonial and the schools are now using the resultant buzz as bargaining power to negotiate concessions from the Big South? Just a thought.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....PARANOIA RUNS DEEP.......ARTICLE AH REFERRED TA...WAS WRITTEN BAH......STEPHEN EDELSON..ASBURY PARK PRESS....USA TODAY NETWORK-NEW JERSEY.......WHEN LEAKIN' UH SCOOP.......NO-ONE EVERAH ADMITS....TA LOOSE LIPS..........NO ONE CAN KEEP UH SECRET........EVEN MURDERERS...CONFESS ON DUH DEATH BED....AWK!

.......ARTICLE STATES...."IT'S UNCLEAR IF CAA WANTS MONMOUTH FOR FOOTBALL THIS FALL. IF NOT THE HAWKS WOULD PLAY ONE MORE SEASON IN THE BIG SOUTH. FOR BASKETBALL THE CAA IS A BETTER PLACE THAN THE MAAC. CONFERENCE RPI OVER TEN YEARS (2010-2011) TO (2019-2020) CAA RANKS 14.8 ON AVERAGE TO MACC'S 19TH AMONG THE 32 CONFERENCES."

[Sitting Bull]

Again, if you take Monmouth and Hampton's additions on their own merits, they are, at best, reaches for football membership (Monmouth on facilities, Hampton on endowment/athletics spending). Stony Brook is a fine addition - however, they're already in CAA football, so they are a net neutral. The fact that Monmouth and Hampton are reaches is what gives me the impression, rightly or wrongly, that these are desperation moves rather than "making the CAA great" moves. The fact that things like Monmouth's ESPN+ contract weren't fully vetted and thrashed out only adds to the idea that this has been slapped together quickly.

And to be clear - Monmouth's stadium is pretty nice overall. Just small and against the CAA's apparently arbitrary rules.

I know you are looking through a different lens but from the CAA perspective, the leagues biggest threat was the low number of core members, those there in all sports including football. With JMU out, that number was down to 4. Now we have added 3 new members, all in the footprint, that bring that total to 7. That also keeps Villanova and Richmond in the fold who will want to remain as affiliates.

Secondly, the CAA needed to address travel costs, particularly for the southern side. Going to 12-14 allows for divisional travel if they wish.

The schools fit well and the CAA still has replacement options if needed. It has been a pretty smart move.

Not sure what may have been discussed with Monmouth. The half stadium is nice. I assume they will be required to make some adjustments.