Has NDSU played itself out of the FCS?

[Sader87]

Firstly, congrats and hats off to your program. NDSU has clearly proven it is the dominant program at the FCS-level ovah the past decade.

At some point though, one has to wondah, as Peggy Lee once famously sang, does the NDSU program/community start to ask "is that all there is?"

I know there is no simple answer....geography and league affiliations work against the Bizon but at some point this has to start becoming boring/old hat, no?

Curious what NDSU supporters think.

[Chalupa Batman]

The short answer is yes we have, but unfortunately we have no viable or available option to move up.

[Boogs]

The short answer is yes we have, but unfortunately we have no viable or available option to move up.

Bxxx xxxx. If St. Thomas of Minnesota can make it work, so can North Dakota State.

[CPMPride]

Someone recently theorized about dropping Rutgers and another from the Big 10 and replacing them with NDSU and SDSU, and while it will never happen I would absolutely love to see it.

Have to get an invite to an FBS conference so until that happens...

[thebootfitter]

Bxxx xxxx. If St. Thomas of Minnesota can make it work, so can North Dakota State.
Big difference between St. Thomas (with plenty of funds to support a move to FCS) moving to FCS versus NDSU moving to FBS — without a conference to go to.

[caribbeanhen]

Yes they have and it was about 7 years ago

[dgtw]

All they need to do is relocate the state of North Dakota to be in between Texas and Oklahoma and they’ll be right in the Big XII footprint.


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[Gil Dobie]

Bison dominated D2 in the 1980s, nothing in the 1990s for championships. Someone will step up, like JMU did. Could have an entire conference step up. Scholarship reductions also contributed to D2 drop-off.off.

[BisonFan02]

Bison dominated D2 in the 1980s, nothing in the 1990s for championships. Someone will step up, like JMU did. Could have an entire conference step up. Scholarship reductions also contributed to D2 drop-off.off.

Yeah.....and NDSU should have been FCS once the dome was built too perhaps.

[Sitting Bull]

From what I saw yesterday, Bison supporters sure didn’t look bored or tired of winning national championships to me. And they won a national championship trophy, their 9th. Not sure a Potato Bowl trophy carries the same weight.

After watching two G5 bowl games in the same stadium two weeks ago - then the game yesterday with a packed house, enthusiasm, players who chose not to opt out, and fans on both sides staying until well after the clock ran down to watch the trophy presentation - it gives you some pause on the upside of “moving up”.

I remember when UMass actually had fans this excited and showed up for games…,

[Gil Dobie]

Yeah.....and NDSU should have been FCS once the dome was built too perhaps.

We had other NCC schools that would not move up when I-AA was formed. In the last vote, a major hockey school was against it. UNC moved up, NDSU waited a year for another school. Even the major hockey school moved up. Big Sky rejected us, not the Montana schools though. Great West was a good stepping stone. There is no stepping stone at this time for FBS. Montanas, Dakotas, UNI and a few others could form a nice FBS conference like the Great West, maybe make it permanent

[Laker]

We had other NCC schools that would not move up when I-AA was formed. In the last vote, a major hockey school was against it. UNC moved up, NDSU waited a year for another school. Even the major hockey school moved up. Big Sky rejected us, not the Montana schools though. Great West was a good stepping stone. There is no stepping stone at this time for FBS. Montanas, Dakotas, UNI and a few others could form a nice FBS conference like the Great West, maybe make it permanent

From what I heard- back in 1999 or whatever year that this NCC meeting was- on Friday night they had the votes to move up as a conference. Morningside was never going to do that and obviously went to NAIA. I was told that the next day SCSU flipped their vote and then MSU did too. That was back when SCSU was the dog and MSU was their tail. For both schools they seem to have hitched their wagons to men's hockey.

[Laker]

Just saw this on Twitter. MSU at #15 back in 1991!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIogajyWYAISUbC?format=jpg&name=large

[atthewbon]

https://twitter.com/argusmattz/status/1480207017692307460?s=20

Interesting article about the future of the fcs from the Dakota schools' perspective. Focuses on other teams leaving and possibilities with the new NCAA constitution. The article mentions a new 70 scholarship league in between the FBS and FCS made up of top FCS teams and the group of 5 teams who can't compete with the power 5. I would personally not be surprised if something like this happens.

[JSUSoutherner]

Just saw this on Twitter. MSU at #15 back in 1991!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIogajyWYAISUbC?format=jpg&name=large
Ahhh. The good ole days back when we ran ****.

[WeAreThePride]

As it stands now, there is no path to the FBS for NDSU.

[Chalupa Batman]

Just saw this on Twitter. MSU at #15 back in 1991!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIogajyWYAISUbC?format=jpg&name=large

Only 4 voters?

[semobison]

1991, Mankato went up to Fargo and upset the Bison in the first round of the DII playoffs. I was at the game, that one hurt!

[NDSU1980]

As it stands now, there is no path to the FBS for NDSU.
AKA FCS Forever. Seems to be what some want

[WestCoastAggie]

I think it's cool NDSU has been able to dominate football on the FCS level as long as they have and I hope it can continue into this decade, making it a John Wooden/UCLA like run.

[Daytripper]

https://twitter.com/argusmattz/status/1480207017692307460?s=20

Interesting article about the future of the fcs from the Dakota schools' perspective. Focuses on other teams leaving and possibilities with the new NCAA constitution. The article mentions a new 70 scholarship league in between the FBS and FCS made up of top FCS teams and the group of 5 teams who can't compete with the power 5. I would personally not be surprised if something like this happens.

I would be cool with a sandwich classification between FCS and P5 as long as it has a playoff similar to FCS. Otherwise, what is the point? Mediocre, at best, bowl games will continue to be the post-season for those FBS bottom feeder conference members.

[semobison]

I would be cool with a sandwich classification between FCS and P5 as long as it has a playoff similar to FCS. Otherwise, what is the point? Mediocre, at best, bowl games will continue to be the post-season for those FBS bottom feeder conference members.

Yep, post season for FBS G5 teams is not very attractive. A break away from the P5 would be good for college football. Combined with the top FCS conferences\teams with a playoff system similar to what the FCS does now. Sign me up!

[dgtw]

Only 4 voters?

Top seven was exactly the same on all four ballots.


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[JacksFan40]

Yes NDSU has played itself out of the FCS. In terms of national relevance they’ve seemingly stagnated despite continued success. It also doesn’t help that they struggle to get FBS games now because of their success in that area as well. NDSU has hit their ceiling as an FCS program and needs to move up if they have any hope of elevating beyond this point.

[JacksFan40]

https://twitter.com/argusmattz/status/1480207017692307460?s=20

Interesting article about the future of the fcs from the Dakota schools' perspective. Focuses on other teams leaving and possibilities with the new NCAA constitution. The article mentions a new 70 scholarship league in between the FBS and FCS made up of top FCS teams and the group of 5 teams who can't compete with the power 5. I would personally not be surprised if something like this happens.
So basically the FCS 2.0?

[Laker]

1991, Mankato went up to Fargo and upset the Bison in the first round of the DII playoffs. I was at the game, that one hurt!

We were cutting and stacking wood that day. I was able to hear the end of the game on the radio during a break. Announcer Casey Lloyd said that he was going to the Royal Fork to celebrate after the game.

[dgtw]

I didn’t realize the D2 title game had moved from Kansas City to Texas three years ago.


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[AmsterBison]

1991, Mankato went up to Fargo and upset the Bison in the first round of the DII playoffs. I was at the game, that one hurt!

Man, I was at that one too, and they stomped us. It would have hurt more if I had known that NDSU win another national championship until the 2011 season.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

This topic gets regurgitated every year. NDSU needs an invite and that will not happen unless teams get poached from the MW. Going independent is a non-starter.

FCS for now. Winning never gets old!!

[Professor Chaos]

This topic gets regurgitated every year. NDSU needs an invite and that will not happen unless teams get poached from the MW. Going independent is a non-starter.

FCS for now. Winning never gets old!!
I'm not as convinced as most that the MWC is a slam dunk unless it's a football only invite. The NDSU AD needs to make conference decisions in the best interests of all sports not just football and the MWC would bring huge travel expenses to the non-revenue sports. To me the ideal situation for an all sports move is moving up with 1 or more regional partners.

[UNHWildcat18]

Hate to say it but no one is going to topple NDSU. JMU “rose” up because it was a school with enough money and was on its way to FBS.

NDSU
a staff with a proven formula to just keep winning
19k dome with the loudest home field advantage in all of sports…
A solid fan base to fill that building.
Pays FCOA! Seriously how many schools do this? I know UNH can’t… such a recruiting advantage.
speaking of recruiting, way less competition in that area. It’s big ten country or NDSU. Sure another MVFC or MAC school could come along but let’s be real. It’s easier than trying to recruit on the east coast..
Football budget. Not saying they are the largest but they are definitely in the mix of top FCS schools
Great athletic facilities overall.

I’m sorry but no schools outside of SDSU Montana Montana State and maybe Delaware can come close to matching all of those. NDSU through coaching and winning now has an advantage over much of the FCS. Not trying to sound like a hater since coaching is clearly number 1 but everything else attracts talent better than any other school can.

for those reasons IMO NDSU isn’t going anywhere and I think you will find schools just won’t be catching up on a consistent basis. They haven’t for ten ****ing years

[caribbeanhen]

They should of just put the Bison in place of Cincinnati and let the FCS have FCS playoffs

The Bison are obviously playing at the wrong level

[Christiank22]

I know this run will eventually end but I won’t lie that I sometimes think it won’t end. I don’t mean to sound arrogant but it’s clear there are 3-4 teams that can compete and then everyone else

[unknown3]

It took 9 out of 11 championships for this question to come up? lol. And not even a competitive championship game, a blowout. There's even less parity in FCS than FBS.

[ElCid]

All things come to an end. Just a matter of when and how. And it will probably happen when least expected and from a cause that is unanticipated. Unless anyone thinks it will go on for decades....

[UNHWildcat18]

All things come to an end. Just a matter of when and how. And it will probably happen when least expected and from a cause that is unanticipated. Unless anyone thinks it will go on for decades....

it’s been over a decade already.. it would take a massive hire of awful coaches for it to change

[semobison]

Three losing seasons since 1964!

[NY Crusader 2010]

I imagine a lot of NDSU fans have gotten pretty jaded over the last 4 or 5 seasons. The program is clearly ready to move up to the next level and has been. Fargo, ND is in that awkward place geographically where they'd be an outlier for both the Mountain West and the MAC. And the MAC has indicated that they have no current desire to expand. Plus you have the political issue of the Dakota schools wanting to stay together.

When it looked like Conference USA was down to 4 schools and MTSU and WKU were looking to jump, my idea was that there was an opportunity for a CUSA "Mountain West Division" where you could've had NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State and Idaho move up together alongside NMSU and UTEP. Then you could've also had a "Gulf South" with Liberty, Sam Houston, Jax State, Louisiana Tech, WKU, MTSU and FIU.

Prediction: The Dakota schools get invited to the Missouri Valley Conference before NDSU goes FBS.

[DFW HOYA]

Hate to say it but no one is going to topple NDSU. JMU “rose” up because it was a school with enough money and was on its way to FBS.


NDSU
a staff with a proven formula to just keep winning
19k dome with the loudest home field advantage in all of sports…
A solid fan base to fill that building.
Pays FCOA! Seriously how many schools do this? I know UNH can’t… such a recruiting advantage.
speaking of recruiting, way less competition in that area. It’s big ten country or NDSU. Sure another MVFC or MAC school could come along but let’s be real. It’s easier than trying to recruit on the east coast..
Football budget. Not saying they are the largest but they are definitely in the mix of top FCS schools
Great athletic facilities overall.


That could be said for a lot of schools. What would you say about this program?

A staff with three consecutive conference championships.
24K stadium
FCOA
Can recruit locally and nationally
Top 15 FCS budget
New indoor football training facility

Sounds good, right? Until I say it's Holy Cross and people turn away.

[BisonBacker]

I imagine a lot of NDSU fans have gotten pretty jaded over the last 4 or 5 seasons. The program is clearly ready to move up to the next level and has been. Fargo, ND is in that awkward place geographically where they'd be an outlier for both the Mountain West and the MAC. And the MAC has indicated that they have no current desire to expand. Plus you have the political issue of the Dakota schools wanting to stay together.

When it looked like Conference USA was down to 4 schools and MTSU and WKU were looking to jump, my idea was that there was an opportunity for a CUSA "Mountain West Division" where you could've had NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State and Idaho move up together alongside NMSU and UTEP. Then you could've also had a "Gulf South" with Liberty, Sam Houston, Jax State, Louisiana Tech, WKU, MTSU and FIU.

Prediction: The Dakota schools get invited to the Missouri Valley Conference before NDSU goes FBS.

Not all schools want to stay together for starters. You are correct when you state "politics" into the equation and that's due to und having the law school which produces lawyers. Lawyers often turn into politicians. The state of North Dakota has lots of politicians who are und grads and can't stand the idea that NDSU is better than their beloved und in anything. So they do anything and everything to hamstring NDSU (see the disparity in funding both schools have been allocated over the decades) to illustrate this point. After NDSU and SDSU moved up to FCS all to the dismay of und fans and backers who poopooed the idea and mocked both schools for doing it only to realize they f'd up and would eventually follow along.

I know many NDSU supporters who have no interest or desire to see them ride NDSU's coat tails anymore. They followed NDSU up and then weaseled their way over to the MVFC after ****ting all over the Big Sky.

To your last point about the MVC I don't see that happening. Not saying it's impossible but I don't think it's probable.

[Gil Dobie]

The tide has changed in recent years, towards the western schools. NDSU has lost 1 game to an eastern team, CAA, Southern, etc, and that team is gone. Teams that have beaten NDSU are from the MVFC of course, and the Big Sky, with Southland SHSU last year. There are some schools on the rise in FCS, Montana St, UIW, ETSU, Kennesaw with regulars like EWU, Montana, SDSU and UNI. Until there is an option for the Bison, they won't go anywhere. Beating them is something to shoot for.

[UNHWildcat18]

That could be said for a lot of schools. What would you say about this program?

A staff with three consecutive conference championships. Weak Conference
24K stadium. Cant fill it halfway
FCOA
Can recruit locally and nationally
Top 15 FCS budget
New indoor football training facility

Sounds good, right? Until I say it's Holy Cross and people turn away.

I'm not saying schools can't be on par with NDSU with some of the points I mentioned, but enough to really compete now, they just fall short.
Also you brought up a point I forgot, they compete in arguably the best FCS conference.

There are only a few schools that with the right coaching staff could use the points I mentioned to truly build a program to challenge them year in and year out.

Also just have to say I am happy to see HC do well. Never sad to see new england schools succeed. Except Maine, naturally.

[UNHWildcat18]

The tide has changed in recent years, towards the western schools. NDSU has lost 1 game to an eastern team, CAA, Southern, etc, and that team is gone. Teams that have beaten NDSU are from the MVFC of course, and the Big Sky, with Southland SHSU last year. There are some schools on the rise in FCS, Montana St, UIW, ETSU, Kennesaw with regulars like EWU, Montana, SDSU and UNI. Until there is an option for the Bison, they won't go anywhere. Beating them is something to shoot for.

Don't disagree there, CAA has gone from 4-5 teams that could make it to the elite 8-championship ever year, to having just JMU as of late be good enough for a deep run. CAA has been on a downturn for a few years now for sure.

[RabidRabbit]

MVC and Summit should split to public schools with scholarship football, and the rest to other conference. The Dakota 4 want to anchor in the I29 corridor. What keeps any conference from inviting NDSU is how far they are from anyone without Dakota in name. Look how eager Big Sky was to shed UND after other 3 Dakotas went SUMMIT. FBS for Bison is not likely without their frenemy, Jackrabbits also coming along
MVFC didn't invite NDSU until SDSU insisted either both or neither.

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[Christiank22]

MVC and Summit should split to public schools with scholarship football, and the rest to other conference. The Dakota 4 want to anchor in the I29 corridor. What keeps any conference from inviting NDSU is how far they are from anyone without Dakota in name. Look how eager Big Sky was to shed UND after other 3 Dakotas went SUMMIT. FBS for Bison is not likely without their frenemy, Jackrabbits also coming along
MVFC didn't invite NDSU until SDSU insisted either both or neither.

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I think it would be pretty fun moving to FBS with you guys…

Now let me vomit

[Mocs123]

In a lot of ways yes they have, but they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They have dominated the FCS the past decade and show no signs of slowing down. They really don't have a good fit to move up to, and why would they? So they can go to the Idaho Potato bowl every year? While they have great FCS resources, they aren't going to be able to dominate the FBS and let's face it if they went to the MAC and had a few 9-4 seasons and MAC championships would Bison fans be happy - probably not, they are used to a level of winning that is unsustainable in any G5 conference. They already sell out the dome. They already are "THE" school in their state (Sorry ND) and have great support in their geographical region. Nobody in North Dakota thinks of NDSU as "D2" just like nobody in Montana thinks Montana is "D2" they are THE premier schools in their state. In the southeast if you are not in the SEC, you're "D2" whether you are Troy (FBS), Kennessaw State (FCS), or Carson-Newman (D2) and you see more "Insert SEC School Name Here" stickers, shirts, and hats in your schools hometown than your local school. Schools like App State, Georgia Southern, and Georgia State moved up to try and be FBS, but to most fans in their region they are still "D2".

[Mocs123]

I think it's cool NDSU has been able to dominate football on the FCS level as long as they have and I hope it can continue into this decade, making it a John Wooden/UCLA like run.

I do try to bring it up to all the Alabama fans that are around me. They haven't been nearly as dominate the past decade as NDSU has. In the grand scheme of things, the run of NDSU National Championships has been amazing if you are a Bison fan, for the rest of us though, it's probably gotten a little old. Of course what are the Bison supposed to do? Every team in the FCS* has a chance to win the National Championship every year - all we have to do is win. You don't have to impress a committee, you don't have to hope someone will deem you worthy of a playoff spot. If you win, you're in, and if you continue to win in the playoffs, you're the National Champion - End of Story. The rest of us just simply haven't won - they have.

*Yes I know the Ivy, MEAC, and SWAC don't fully participate but that's because they choose not to - they could if they wanted to.

[caribbeanhen]

http://www.gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28092

Delaware fans really tired of the Behomouth

[ElCid]

In the southeast if you are not in the SEC, you're "D2" whether you are Troy (FBS), Kennessaw State (FCS), or Carson-Newman (D2) and you see more "Insert SEC School Name Here" stickers, shirts, and hats in your schools hometown than your local school. Schools like App State, Georgia Southern, and Georgia State moved up to try and be FBS, but to most fans in their region they are still "D2".

No joke. A few years ago when we played Florida St, I got into an online argument with a FL St fan who had complained they were playing a D2 team. I told him that we were not D2, but D1-FCS. He insisted that we were D2 and I was wrong. I finally sent him a link and he just said he had never heard of such a thing. I hate those kind of "fans." True fans understand it, weekend fans puffing their chests or casual watchers are usually just stupid.

[kdinva]

No joke. A few years ago when we played Florida St, I got into an online argument with a FL St fan who had complained they were playing a D2 team. I told him that we were not D2, but D1-FCS. He insisted that we were D2 and I was wrong. I finally sent him a link and he just said he had never heard of such a thing. I hate those kind of "fans." True fans understand it, weekend fans puffing their chests or casual watchers are usually just stupid.

Did you remind that "fan" of the Jax State game? xlolx

Bizon could in theory move to the ACC, go 6-3 or better each Fall.

[ming01]

I want Mountain West, just no idea if/when it will happen. Hopefully soon.

[Professor Chaos]

In a lot of ways yes they have, but they aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They have dominated the FCS the past decade and show no signs of slowing down. They really don't have a good fit to move up to, and why would they? So they can go to the Idaho Potato bowl every year? While they have great FCS resources, they aren't going to be able to dominate the FBS and let's face it if they went to the MAC and had a few 9-4 seasons and MAC championships would Bison fans be happy - probably not, they are used to a level of winning that is unsustainable in any G5 conference. They already sell out the dome. They already are "THE" school in their state (Sorry ND) and have great support in their geographical region. Nobody in North Dakota thinks of NDSU as "D2" just like nobody in Montana thinks Montana is "D2" they are THE premier schools in their state. In the southeast if you are not in the SEC, you're "D2" whether you are Troy (FBS), Kennessaw State (FCS), or Carson-Newman (D2) and you see more "Insert SEC School Name Here" stickers, shirts, and hats in your schools hometown than your local school. Schools like App State, Georgia Southern, and Georgia State moved up to try and be FBS, but to most fans in their region they are still "D2".
Couple points on the bolded part. I think 6 years ago or more you'd be right that most Bison fans wouldn't be interested in that but I think that percentage has decreased significantly over the last few years. And we don't sell out the Fargodome anymore... there was only one sellout this year and only a couple others that were particularly close. Now maybe that's due directly/indirectly to the pandemic and maybe it's due to inflating ticket prices but, in any case, fan interest is waning in NDSU football despite this unprecedented level of success.

[ElCid]

For all those folks from NDSU who think moving up would be good, I hope you realize that it's a better than even chance that your overall, relative, success would probably go down over time. I have to imagine that many players are somewhat drawn to the winning, championship, program, currently. That's not to say you wouldn't be successful, but in general your value would probably be lessened over time I think. Part of that is due to your already currently high quality of players. That would be harder to continue once you moved up. Sure some long time FCS teams like Boise St, Marshall, GA So, and App to name some, had some success after moving, but they pretty much have hit their ceilings. As long as you are good with that possibility. It's easy to believe you would be a perennial top 25 FBS team, but that just isn't realistic. If I was a fan I would happy to remain with your current situation.

[Bisonator]

http://www.gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28092

Delaware fans really tired of the Behomouth
Those boys are salty! Must be still PO'd over that fake FG. xlolx

Tell them all that oil money is tied up by our states Legacy Fund which aint done **** for the majority of ND taxpayers either. I really get a kick out of these ignorant people thinking all ND peeps have oil cash stuffed in their pockets. If NDSU was getting tons of oil money they'd have a 50K seat dome and probably be in the B12 by now!

The secret to NDSU's success:
1. Recruit hard working kids, it takes a special kid to stay in our program and stick it out
2. Recruit good athletes with the frame to build on, you know the kid that's going to take a year or 2 to fill out because the FBS doesn't wait for those guys to develop
3. Kramer our S&C coach is the best in the business at building these kids into the FB players you see on the field, he's been the one constant for every FCS championship
4. When your program is rolling and your coach leaves make sure the next guy is already in the building, that's why we haven't skipped a beat under the last 2 coaching changes because those guys were here and understand what it takes

There's really nothing secretive or underhanded about what they've done. There's no money under the table bull**** going on hell most of our recruits weren't even offered by an FBS program. Some of our best players we've ever had were fricking walk ons that never had a D1 offer! Our core base is MN,ND,SD,WI and IA centric kids who have the work ethic and frames to be NFL lineman but they need time to develop. The FBS schools miss the boat because they don't want to develop kids they want them to row it! Haha my dig at PJ.:D

[Mocs123]

The last time I looked NDSU had a good strong FCS budget, but it wasn't like it was way above and beyond everyone else. In fact I think JMU was the one with money running out of it's ears.

[UNHWildcat18]

NDSU spent 5.9 million on football in 2020. I don’t that’s towards the bottom of the FCS. UNH spent 5.3 million

[Hammerhead]

Most of the oil money is held by landowners in the northwestern part of North Dakota and NDSU is on the southeastern border with Minnesota. One thing we do have going is that the city owns the Fargodome so there is no debt payment or maintenance fund that comes out of the NDSU athletics budget.

NDSU was also dominating D-II in the 1980s when the state budget took a big hit due to the lack of oil revenue.

I watched the WDAY pregame show yesterday morning and one thing they brought up was Craig Bohl's change in recruiting strategy after our losing seasons where he would ask the school secretary if the player he was recruiting was a good kid or a troublemaker.


Those boys are salty! Must be still PO'd over that fake FG. xlolx

Tell them all that oil money is tied up by our states Legacy Fund which aint done **** for the majority of ND taxpayers either. I really get a kick out of these ignorant people thinking all ND peeps have oil cash stuffed in their pockets. If NDSU was getting tons of oil money they'd have a 50K seat dome and probably be in the B12 by now!

The secret to NDSU's success:
1. Recruit hard working kids, it takes a special kid to stay in our program and stick it out
2. Recruit good athletes with the frame to build on, you know the kid that's going to take a year or 2 to fill out because the FBS doesn't wait for those guys to develop
3. Kramer our S&C coach is the best in the business at building these kids into the FB players you see on the field, he's been the one constant for every FCS championship
4. When your program is rolling and your coach leaves make sure the next guy is already in the building, that's why we haven't skipped a beat under the last 2 coaching changes because those guys were here and understand what it takes

There's really nothing secretive or underhanded about what they've done. There's no money under the table bull**** going on hell most of our recruits weren't even offered by an FBS program. Some of our best players we've ever had were fricking walk ons that never had a D1 offer! Our core base is MN,ND,SD,WI and IA centric kids who have the work ethic and frames to be NFL lineman but they need time to develop. The FBS schools miss the boat because they don't want to develop kids they want them to row it! Haha my dig at PJ.:D

[Professor Chaos]

For all those folks from NDSU who think moving up would be good, I hope you realize that it's a better than even chance that your overall, relative, success would probably go down over time. I have to imagine that many players are somewhat drawn to the winning, championship, program, currently. That's not to say you wouldn't be successful, but in general your value would probably be lessened over time I think. Part of that is due to your already currently high quality of players. That would be harder to continue once you moved up. Sure some long time FCS teams like Boise St, Marshall, GA So, and App to name some, had some success after moving, but they pretty much have hit their ceilings. As long as you are good with that possibility. It's easy to believe you would be a perennial top 25 FBS team, but that just isn't realistic. If I was a fan I would happy to remain with your current situation.
For our fan base I'm probably closer to the stay in the FCS side of the pendulum than the jump to FBS side but even I think you're undervaluing the upside of an FBS move. NDSU has hit a glass ceiling in the FCS so the value of moving FBS is that upward mobility. I wouldn't expect NDSU to be a perennial top 25 FBS team if they move up but I think if you give them 22 more full scholarships and a schedule full of FBS teams to play against we could see top 25 caliber NDSU teams from time to time. That gives our fans something to get excited about it. As an NDSU fan what is there to get excited about these days? I still get excited to win national championships but I think fans like me are getting fewer and fewer. We can hardly even get excited to play FBS teams anymore since none of them will schedule NDSU.

Another dynamic is we remember how things went down in D2. We watched D2 bleed teams in the late 80s and 90s that NDSU competed with and was generally better than as a D2 program. Then we saw the remaining D2 programs start to reduce scholarship limits in order to "level the playing field" which knocked NDSU's program down in the 90s. We don't want to see that happen again at the FCS level and we're already starting to see parallels with the FCS bleeding teams who are heavily committed to football.

[Laker]

I watched the WDAY pregame show yesterday morning and one thing they brought up was Craig Bohl's change in recruiting strategy after our losing seasons where he would ask the school secretary if the player he was recruiting was a good kid or a troublemaker.

My Dad's advice to me when I started teaching was to make friends with the secretaries, cooks, bus drivers and janitors. He said that they would save my bacon more that I could count. He was spot on. They know who the good kids are- and the dinks.

[Mfergy4]

IMO, I prefer to win Championships than the Tostitos No Name Bowl...better recruiting tool. I think you are starting to see that at the FBS level with the transfer portal. Where it was designed to pluck the FCS of good players it is slowly becoming the way for FBS players to drop down, get playing time and win a Championship. We have two FBS players who did that. I also see the push at the FBS level to expand their play-offs bracket. NDSU's biggest issue is getting an invite to a FBS conference; the challenge - not enough market size, tough, long, and expensive travel to get here or for us to get there; and our history of beating good caliber FBS Teams. Covid stole our chance to play Oregon and we have Arizona next year, but it has been over 6 years since an FBS team would even pick up the phone to talk to us. Folks until things change for the better for NDSU for an FBS move or things get worse in the the rest of the FCS scholarship wise, we are here to stay. Sorry, but not sorry...winning championships is just plain the coolest thing. xnodx xviolinx

[Tank Edwards]

I hope they make the move. Sooner rather than later.

[Professor Chaos]

http://www.gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28092

Delaware fans really tired of the Behomouth
Ha, just read through that and it was pretty entertaining. My favorite comment was "geography is a poor excuse (for not moving up)". There is clearly very little understanding from some in Hensville on what an FBS move entails for an entire athletic department or how getting into an FBS conference works in general.

[caribbeanhen]

My Dad's advice to me when I started teaching was to make friends with the secretaries, cooks, bus drivers and janitors. He said that they would save my bacon more that I could count. He was spot on. They know who the good kids are- and the dinks.

Damn good advice

[caribbeanhen]

Ha, just read through that and it was pretty entertaining. My favorite comment was "geography is a poor excuse (for not moving up)". There is clearly very little understanding from some in Hensville on what an FBS move entails for an entire athletic department or how getting into an FBS conference works in general.

Well in fairness, I have learned the real savvy fans don’t post as much on gohens We have some fans that understand the process better than those few who are frustrated with Bison success, but yep it’s funny.

[Professor Chaos]

Well in fairness, I have learned the real savvy fans don’t post as much on gohens We have some fans that understand the process better than those few who are frustrated with Bison success, but yep it’s funny.
Yeah, same with Bisonville, it seems like keyboard diarrhea from some drives away more good posters all the time. And this kind of ignorance isn't exclusive to gohens either... I've read through hundreds of clueless "why don't they just move up???" Twitter replies in reference to NDSU over the last few days.

[mmiller_34]

To answer the question:

Yes. I would love to see us at the FBS level.

- - - Updated - - -

To answer the question:

Yes. I would love to see us at the FBS level.

[dgtw]

My Dad's advice to me when I started teaching was to make friends with the secretaries, cooks, bus drivers and janitors. He said that they would save my bacon more that I could count. He was spot on. They know who the good kids are- and the dinks.

What did you teach?

My wife drives a school bus so thanks for being nice to them.


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[Bison Fan in NW MN]

To answer the question:

Yes. I would love to see us at the FBS level.

- - - Updated - - -

To answer the question:

Yes. I would love to see us at the FBS level.


Who is this "us" you sandbagger?

[Professor Chaos]

Who is this "us" you sandbagger?
Miller has seen the light renouncing the evil SDSU-ery that he had been hypnotized by in the past and has put himself on the honorable and virtuous path of Bison fandom.

[BisonBacker]

Ha, just read through that and it was pretty entertaining. My favorite comment was "geography is a poor excuse (for not moving up)". There is clearly very little understanding from some in Hensville on what an FBS move entails for an entire athletic department or how getting into an FBS conference works in general.

Thanks for posting the link. Just finished reading that and it's hilarious. I never knew NDSU was the recipient of so much smelly Oil money from Western ND bwahahahaha. I've read some dandy conspiracy theories over the last several years but that thread ranks right at the top.

[Herder]

Bxxx xxxx. If St. Thomas of Minnesota can make it work, so can North Dakota State.

If St Thomas can play non-scholarship football, so can NDSU? Is that your point? What’s your point. Is UST playing FBS football? No they are playing 0-scholarship football (really low bar) and the rest of their sports were welcomed & gift wrapped in other DI conferences. The correlation to NDSU FBS football, zero.

Ndsu has no gift wrapped invitations from MAC, MW, AAC, SBC . . . Or they’d jump. Hello, the rules now say an invite from an FBS playing conf is required. You can’t just go Indy like teams did 10 years ago.

What am I missing? You make it sound so easy, yet you have no clue what’s actually required. Because what UST did? Are you serious?

[Bisonoline]

Thanks for posting the link. Just finished reading that and it's hilarious. I never knew NDSU was the recipient of so much smelly Oil money from Western ND bwahahahaha. I've read some dandy conspiracy theories over the last several years but that thread ranks right at the top.

What a bunch of dumb mo fo's. JFC

[BisonBacker]

What a bunch of dumb mo fo's. JFC

They aren't the only ones. Enjoy the reading...

https://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=88325&start=40

[BisonBacker]

Here are some nuggets from that debacle of a thread.


Money. $$$$$$$$. Oil money.


I am sure there are numerous other advantages but basically they have developed an FCS program that is very similar to the FBS programs. I think the NCAA should do a detail investigation into their program and if significant violations are or have occurred they should be disciplined including vacating any championships from the years the any violations may have taken place.

I have read of an alleged instance of performance enhancing drugs being distributed in the locker room while Klieman was coach but it seems to have died or been swept under the carpet.

This one was probably more tongue & Cheek but it still makes the list..


11 kids from Florida and Georgia? Do they kidnap them until they begin showing signs of Stockholm Syndrome?

[ElCid]

If St Thomas can play non-scholarship football, so can NDSU? Is that your point? What’s your point. Is UST playing FBS football? No they are playing 0-scholarship football (really low bar) and the rest of their sports were welcomed & gift wrapped in other DI conferences. The correlation to NDSU FBS football, zero.

Ndsu has no gift wrapped invitations from MAC, MW, AAC, SBC . . . Or they’d jump. Hello, the rules now say an invite from an FBS playing conf is required. You can’t just go Indy like teams did 10 years ago.

What am I missing? You make it sound so easy, yet you have no clue what’s actually required. Because what UST did? Are you serious?

I think it was a lot longer than 10 years ago for independents. Liberty got in as an indy due to a number of supporting stars and planets lining up nicely against the NCAA. I'm pretty sure the last one before that to move up as independent was well over 20, maybe 30 years ago, but can't remember exactly.

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more talk of the MAC. Maybe they don't want NDSU. Pretty sure they would smoke every team in year one. The travel wouldn't be much different for non football.

[BisonBacker]

I think it was a lot longer than 10 years ago for independents. Liberty got in as an indy due to a number of supporting stars and planets lining up nicely against the NCAA. I'm pretty sure the last one before that to move up as independent was well over 20, maybe 30 years ago, but can't remember exactly.

I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more talk of the MAC. Maybe they don't want NDSU. Pretty sure they would smoke every team in year one. The travel wouldn't be much different for non football.

From everything I've read and the folks I've talked to there is almost zero support/interest in the MAC. At a minimum the fans would want the MWC and there are no other viable conferences unless there is some kind of a big shakeup. NDSU won't ever get a chance to sniff a P5 conference so unless the top teams from the MVFC and the Big Sky were to put some kind of a deal together and make a move up which aint happening either so NDSU is stuck where they are. I for one would love to see a MWC invite and move.

[ST_Lawson]

Liberty got in as an indy due to a number of supporting stars and planets lining up nicely against the NCAA.

And dollar signs...lots and lots of dollar signs.


I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more talk of the MAC. Maybe they don't want NDSU. Pretty sure they would smoke every team in year one. The travel wouldn't be much different for non football.

The MAC likes to stay relatively compact. NIU was pretty much on the edge of their comfort zone when they added them, Buffalo too. They did allow Temple and UMass as football affiliates for a few years, but they had the option of adding both Middle Tennessee State and Western Kentucky just a few months ago and passed on them. They are pretty much the definition of "stable", with the newest full member having been added in 1998 and the only other full member to actually leave the conference in the last 65 years being Marshall. The XDSUs would probably fit their athletic and academic profiles pretty well, but the MAC isn't really looking to add any schools, and the Dakotas are pretty far out for them even if they were.


From everything I've read and the folks I've talked to there is almost zero support/interest in the MAC. At a minimum the fans would want the MWC and there are no other viable conferences unless there is some kind of a big shakeup. NDSU won't ever get a chance to sniff a P5 conference so unless the top teams from the MVFC and the Big Sky were to put some kind of a deal together and make a move up which aint happening either so NDSU is stuck where they are. I for one would love to see a MWC invite and move.

Pretty much the same that I've heard. Like you said, the best current FBS option is the Mountain West, but it doesn't look like they're likely to offer NDSU an invite any time soon. If there was a big restructuring of DI (which sounds possible in the next few years), you might be able to do something with the 4 Dakota schools, the 2 Montana schools, maybe UNI, maybe Idaho...something like that, but it'd be something like a "new FCS" which would be the lower level of current G5s and upper FCS teams. Maybe that ends up being the "Summit League Football" that occasionally gets mentioned, but they'd play at the same level as the Mountain West and MAC.

[Mfergy4]

They aren't the only ones. Enjoy the reading...

https://egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=88325&start=40

Interesting read...did they forget they have lots of oil in the Eastern part of Montana too......lots of weird theories but no factual basis....jealousy breeds contempt and speculation.

[ElCid]

From everything I've read and the folks I've talked to there is almost zero support/interest in the MAC. At a minimum the fans would want the MWC and there are no other viable conferences unless there is some kind of a big shakeup. NDSU won't ever get a chance to sniff a P5 conference so unless the top teams from the MVFC and the Big Sky were to put some kind of a deal together and make a move up which aint happening either so NDSU is stuck where they are. I for one would love to see a MWC invite and move.


I hate to be devious, but give the MAC a huge carrot...$$. Join as Football only for a few years and then you are FBS. But then leave and go indy or shop around. It ain't pretty but it is a realistic path for those who have FBS-envy. Not sure I would hold out for some restructuring. May never happen. Might, but who knows. Could be 30 years...

[Christiank22]

Interesting read...did they forget they have lots of oil in the Eastern part of Montana too......lots of weird theories but no factual basis....jealousy breeds contempt and speculation.

People from montana call anything east of billings western North Dakota. Which to be fair the landscape is very similar. But it’s just that typical mountain arrogance where they don’t realize there’s more to life than a pretty view

I love the mountains btw spend a lot of time out there but damn does it get annoying when someone’s entire personality is how much prettier their back yard is than yours

[Professor Chaos]

I hate to be devious, but give the MAC a huge carrot...$$. Join as Football only for a few years and then you are FBS. But then leave and go indy or shop around. It ain't pretty but it is a realistic path for those who have FBS-envy. Not sure I would hold out for some restructuring. May never happen. Might, but who knows. Could be 30 years...
Football only membership in any FBS conference would be ideal for NDSU but it doesn't seem that those are easy to come by. I think the only football affiliate left in the FBS is Hawaii in the MWC. I've also heard that most FBS conferences want all sports members when they go hunting for new schools because they need 8 full time members for something or other (thinking it's for CFP money/NY6 bowl inclusion???).

[BisonBacker]

I hate to be devious, but give the MAC a huge carrot...$$. Join as Football only for a few years and then you are FBS. But then leave and go indy or shop around. It ain't pretty but it is a realistic path for those who have FBS-envy. Not sure I would hold out for some restructuring. May never happen. Might, but who knows. Could be 30 years...

Myself personally I have zero interest in the MAC. I just can't see NDSU ever going that route (even if the MAC did want them).

[dgtw]

Football only membership in any FBS conference would be ideal for NDSU but it doesn't seem that those are easy to come by. I think the only football affiliate left in the FBS is Hawaii in the MWC. I've also heard that most FBS conferences want all sports members when they go hunting for new schools because they need 8 full time members for something or other (thinking it's for CFP money/NY6 bowl inclusion???).

Navy is football in the AAC but Patriot League for everything else. But like Hawaii, they are a bit of a special case.


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[ysubigred]

Myself personally I have zero interest in the MAC. I just can't see NDSU ever going that route (even if the MAC did want them).Holy ****.. MAC wouldn't want NDSU! They only except teams existing members could beat..

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[ngineer]

Bison should stay where they are. We need a standard to go after, and they are it. Winning isn't boring and their fans certainly seemed juiced up to me from what I saw. Furthermore, I don't see NDSU having enough assists to go FBS and do it right. How boring will going 4-7, 5-6, 3-8, 6-5 with an occasion trip to a WTF Name Is This Bowl with 3/4 empty stands?

[ngineer]

Navy is football in the AAC but Patriot League for everything else. But like Hawaii, they are a bit of a special case.


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Same with Army West Point.

[ysubigred]

Bison should stay where they are. We need a standard to go after, and they are it. Winning isn't boring and their fans certainly seemed juiced up to me from what I saw. Furthermore, I don't see NDSU having enough assists to go FBS and do it right. How boring will going 4-7, 5-6, 3-8, 6-5 with an occasion trip to a WTF Name Is This Bowl with 3/4 empty stands?I agree.. after NDSU won the 5th title I came to terms with it. IDGAF if they win 100.. every one else needs to get their **** together and stop them.. xtwocentsx

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[dgtw]

Same with Army West Point.

Army is independent in football. They were a CUSA affiliate at one time but that didn’t go well so they dropped out.


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[ElCid]

Army is independent in football. They were a CUSA affiliate at one time but that didn’t go well so they dropped out.


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I always wondered how they account for scholarships. Same with Navy and AF. Every cadet gets a 100% (plus) free ride. They have a team with 100% of players (in all sports) on a full COA plus a small monthly stipend to boot. I guess they have some agreement with the NCAA to designate X number of players as "recruited." Not they would get the average outstanding Joe athlete as a walk on just to play football with x number of years of service to do afterwards.

[ysubigred]

I always wondered how they account for scholarships. Same with Navy and AF. Every cadet gets a 100% (plus) free ride. They have a team with 100% of players (in all sports) on a full COA plus a small monthly stipend to boot. I guess they have some agreement with the NCAA to designate X number of players as "recruited." Not they would get the average outstanding Joe athlete as a walk on just to play football with x number of years of service to do afterwards.They are Cadets 1st, athletes 2nd. None in the service academy are on athletic scholarships.. football is an extra curricular activity.

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[ElCid]

They are Cadets 1st, athletes 2nd. None in the service academy are on athletic scholarships.. football is an extra curricular activity.

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Yes I get that. But how do they remain legal with NCAA rule for normal scholarship limits? I'm just wondering if there are any checks and balances. There may not be given their special situation.

[WeAreThePride]

Miller has seen the light renouncing the evil SDSU-ery that he had been hypnotized by in the past and has put himself on the honorable and virtuous path of Bison fandom.
There is no redemption. Just as a whore is forever tainted, so too an SDSU fan.

I have spoken.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Holy ****.. MAC wouldn't want NDSU! They only except teams existing members could beat..

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Remember how Marshall got invited "back" to the MAC (they were a member pre-plane crash) in 1997? They immediately dominated the conference for the better part of a decade. This is likely what would take place if NDSU joined. The MAC just doesn't seem to have much interest in expansion but they have admitted football affiliates three different times over the past 20 years for short stints (UCF, Temple, UMASS). However, I don't think they'd see the opportunity to add Fargo to the map as a pressing reason to add an affiliate again.

- - - Updated - - -

[Winterborn]

I like playing for a championship aka a meaningful game. Some no name Bowl game for a participation trophy has no interest for me.

Also have no interest in the MAC and next to no interest in the MWC (assuming it is for all sports, football only invite is a maybe). We are in a geographical dead zone. Too far from any of the conferences that matter or fit our level of funding. Plus the money we would have to come up with to raise football expenditures (assuming a football only invite) is doable but will not be easy, especially if the move is to a FBS conference like the MAC.

NDSU's should only move if the FBS side has a shake out and there is a new mid-tier level created (somebody mentioned the 70 scholarship level). We have no ability to play with the Alabama's of the college football world but we do have the ability to play a bit below that.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I always wondered how they account for scholarships. Same with Navy and AF. Every cadet gets a 100% (plus) free ride. They have a team with 100% of players (in all sports) on a full COA plus a small monthly stipend to boot. I guess they have some agreement with the NCAA to designate X number of players as "recruited." Not they would get the average outstanding Joe athlete as a walk on just to play football with x number of years of service to do afterwards.

I don't think they do. If you read the "Last Amateurs", which is a book about Patriot League basketball from around 1999-2000, it cites the fact that the service academies had an inherent advantage in the PL because all recruits were offered full rides courtesy of the Feds whereas the rest of the league was non-scholarship then. Didn't help results on the court. I believe lack of athletic scholarships also allows the academies to have larger rosters. Army and Navy basketball, as well as the non-scholarship Ivies always have M/W Basketball rosters of up to 20 guys.

In football, the biggest disadvantage the academies have is the lack of redshirting, not even medical. I was at a Navy game where their senior QB got hurt on his 2nd series of the season in their opener against Fordham. Football career over. One ADVANTAGE they do have is that they have their own prep schools. Over the past 15 years, both Army and Navy have used their prep schools as a "de facto" redshirt year. The % of athletes who start out at these prep schools has increased lately, as both programs have looked to remain competitive at the highest level. This allows recruits to acclimate to the military lifestyle, gain an extra year of strength and conditioning, and of course the prep schools run the same systems as their parent programs. Imagine if "Ohio State Prep" or "Alabama Prep" was created. This would be considered the mother of NCAA violations but it flies for the academies.

[ElCid]

I don't think they do. If you read the "Last Amateurs", which is a book about Patriot League basketball from around 1999-2000, it cites the fact that the service academies had an inherent advantage in the PL because all recruits were offered full rides courtesy of the Feds whereas the rest of the league was non-scholarship then. Didn't help results on the court. I believe lack of athletic scholarships also allows the academies to have larger rosters. Army and Navy basketball, as well as the non-scholarship Ivies always have M/W Basketball rosters of up to 20 guys.

In football, the biggest disadvantage the academies have is the lack of redshirting, not even medical. I was at a Navy game where their senior QB got hurt on his 2nd series of the season in their opener against Fordham. Football career over. One ADVANTAGE they do have is that they have their own prep schools. Over the past 15 years, both Army and Navy have used their prep schools as a "de facto" redshirt year. The % of athletes who start out at these prep schools has increased lately, as both programs have looked to remain competitive at the highest level. This allows recruits to acclimate to the military lifestyle, gain an extra year of strength and conditioning, and of course the prep schools run the same systems as their parent programs. Imagine if "Ohio State Prep" or "Alabama Prep" was created. This would be considered the mother of NCAA violations but it flies for the academies.

I think we have had a few of those academy preps come to play. It probably balances out since a lot of potential players are probably not too keen on the commitment aspect of years of service.

[Gil Dobie]

Way back thread. Lot of doubt about NDSU back in the day. Are they good enough for I-AA, can they compete in the Gateway/MVFC, and now they are too good for FCS. Just enjoying the ride, never know when it will end.

NDSU and I-AA Link (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?15396-NDSU-the-future-of-I-AA&highlight=ndsu+gateway)

[unknown3]

I like playing for a championship aka a meaningful game. Some no name Bowl game for a participation trophy has no interest for me.

Also have no interest in the MAC and next to no interest in the MWC (assuming it is for all sports, football only invite is a maybe). We are in a geographical dead zone. Too far from any of the conferences that matter or fit our level of funding. Plus the money we would have to come up with to raise football expenditures (assuming a football only invite) is doable but will not be easy, especially if the move is to a FBS conference like the MAC.

NDSU's should only move if the FBS side has a shake out and there is a new mid-tier level created (somebody mentioned the 70 scholarship level). We have no ability to play with the Alabama's of the college football world but we do have the ability to play a bit below that.

Every single fcs fan sung this same song... until moving up. GaSO, App State, etc. And, not a single one would consider moving back down.

[Professor Chaos]

Remember how Marshall got invited "back" to the MAC (they were a member pre-plane crash) in 1997? They immediately dominated the conference for the better part of a decade. This is likely what would take place if NDSU joined. The MAC just doesn't seem to have much interest in expansion but they have admitted football affiliates three different times over the past 20 years for short stints (UCF, Temple, UMASS). However, I don't think they'd see the opportunity to add Fargo to the map as a pressing reason to add an affiliate again.

- - - Updated - - -
Bingo... this is what the "why don't they just move up?" crowd cannot seem to grasp. Whatever conference invites them will be slimming each school's piece of the revenue pie and most FBS conferences are either too good to invite NDSU (Big Ten/Big 12) or NDSU would pretty much run right through the league on arrival (MAC/CUSA). Add to that NDSU's market isn't going to draw eyeballs or get other teams games in their recruiting hotbeds along with expensive travel in the non-revenue sports for any league outside of the MWC (since they already have expensive travel). It's really not difficult to see why NDSU is "stuck" in the FCS until the stars align or until there's one or more regional partners willing to make the move with them.

[POD Knows]

Bison should stay where they are. We need a standard to go after, and they are it. Winning isn't boring and their fans certainly seemed juiced up to me from what I saw. Furthermore, I don't see NDSU having enough assists to go FBS and do it right. How boring will going 4-7, 5-6, 3-8, 6-5 with an occasion trip to a WTF Name Is This Bowl with 3/4 empty stands?
What makes you think that the Bison would perform that poorly at the G5 level in football. I would be more concerned about the performance of our other teams at the higher level.

[Winterborn]

Every single fcs fan sung this same song... until moving up. GaSO, App State, etc. And, not a single one would consider moving back down.

So App State and GaSo are in a geographical dead zones as well?

Last time I checked they were all on the East Coast and in high population areas that the suburbs have more people than the state of ND.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Every single fcs fan sung this same song... until moving up. GaSO, App State, etc. And, not a single one would consider moving back down. Georgia Southern, App State, Coastal, Georgia State and now JMU, all landed in a sweet spot. The Sun Belt Conference, once a laughing stock (remember the Sun Belch references), is now the hottest G5 league. It's a cohesive group of schools in a very reasonable geographical footprint, all of whom are proudly football-first institutions.

FBS isn't a fairytale for everyone though. Look at Idaho -- was mired as a football affiliate in the Sun Belt after that banner took over stewardship from the Big West, only got invited to the WAC in the mid-2000's because they were desperate for members, and then got stuck in no-man's land again when the WAC folded and the MWC didn't call. Can't remember if they went back to the Belt for a couple years or stayed indy, but they made the rational choice to drop down.

UMASS -- FBS experiment has been a total disaster and was precipitated by the belief that Bob Kraft's influence would help them use football to get into the old Big East. They incorrectly read the tea leaves with regards to the Big East / AAC split and were unwilling to commit to the MAC for all-sports when that affiliate arrangement came to an end. Minutemen are in an absolute "no hope" zone when it comes to finding an appropriate home in the FBS world.

Florida A&M -- We all know a good chunk of the HBCU have the support to be FBS but overall these schools are under-funded (maybe the federal $$$ allocated by former President Trump will help make a difference). FAMU tried to be the HBCU to I-A guinea pig early this century and it completely blew up in their face. Literally took the program about 16 years to recover from the bungled move, amongst other issues. With the talk about Jackson State and Deion Sanders coming to forefront (great for FCS!!), this topic will come up again.

I've mentioned it a couple times but I do think a number of the FCS powers in the Northern Plains (i.e. Dakotas, Montana schools, Idaho) should look at the success of the Sun Belt and consider trying to piggy-back by proposing a CUSA West Division. If anything, this would undoubtedly stabilize that league. As CUSA is constructed now, I still think the likes of WKU, MTSU, FIU and Liberty will jump the first chance they get to either Sun Belt, AAC or MAC, if it does one day ended up courting additional members. So you could easily end up with a situation where Jax State and Sam Houston wind up holding the bag like Idaho.

[JSUSoutherner]

Georgia Southern, App State, Coastal, Georgia State and now JMU, all landed in a sweet spot. The Sun Belt Conference, once a laughing stock (remember the Sun Belch references), is now the hottest G5 league. It's a cohesive group of schools in a very reasonable geographical footprint, all of whom are proudly football-first institutions.

FBS isn't a fairytale for everyone though. Look at Idaho -- was mired as a football affiliate in the Sun Belt after that banner took over stewardship from the Big West, only got invited to the WAC in the mid-2000's because they were desperate for members, and then got stuck in no-man's land again when the WAC folded and the MWC didn't call. Can't remember if they went back to the Belt for a couple years or stayed indy, but they made the rational choice to drop down.

UMASS -- FBS experiment has been a total disaster and was precipitated by the belief that Bob Kraft's influence would help them use football to get into the old Big East. They incorrectly read the tea leaves with regards to the Big East / AAC split and were unwilling to commit to the MAC for all-sports when that affiliate arrangement came to an end. Minutemen are in an absolute "no hope" zone when it comes to finding an appropriate home in the FBS world.

Florida A&M -- We all know a good chunk of the HBCU have the support to be FBS but overall these schools are under-funded (maybe the federal $$$ allocated by former President Trump will help make a difference). FAMU tried to be the HBCU to I-A guinea pig early this century and it completely blew up in their face. Literally took the program about 16 years to recover from the bungled move, amongst other issues. With the talk about Jackson State and Deion Sanders coming to forefront (great for FCS!!), this topic will come up again.

I've mentioned it a couple times but I do think a number of the FCS powers in the Northern Plains (i.e. Dakotas, Montana schools, Idaho) should look at the success of the Sun Belt and consider trying to piggy-back by proposing a CUSA West Division. If anything, this would undoubtedly stabilize that league. As CUSA is constructed now, I still think the likes of WKU, MTSU, FIU and Liberty will jump the first chance they get to either Sun Belt, AAC or MAC, if it does one day ended up courting additional members. So you could easily end up with a situation where Jax State and Sam Houston wind up holding the bag like Idaho.


JSU will be in the SEC by then.

[Gil Dobie]

So App State and GaSo are in a geographical dead zones as well?

Last time I checked they were all on the East Coast and in high population areas that the suburbs have more people than the state of ND.

Idaho would be a good example for NDSU not to follow.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Idaho would be a good example for NDSU not to follow.

I believe NDSU will successfully move up...if/when the appropriate time comes. As G5 landscape is currently constructed, it doesn't really make sense. Just like it didn't make sense (yet) for JMU to move up eight years ago. But I'm pretty confident that if the opportunity does arise for NDSU, they'll do it right. They won't end up as Idaho 2.0.

[BisonBacker]

Every single fcs fan sung this same song... until moving up. GaSO, App State, etc. And, not a single one would consider moving back down.

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

[BisonBacker]

What makes you think that the Bison would perform that poorly at the G5 level in football. I would be more concerned about the performance of our other teams at the higher level.

Our other teams at the higher level? Every other team sport NDSU sponsors is a the Division I level now. Only difference is we compete in the Summit as opposed to whatever conference NDSU would supposedly join.

[BisonBacker]

JSU will be in the SEC by then.
xlolx

[ElCid]

So App State and GaSo are in a geographical dead zones as well?

Last time I checked they were all on the East Coast and in high population areas that the suburbs have more people than the state of ND.

Well, to be "more" accurate both App St and GaSo are in their state's respective "sticks." Boone is actually not that far from me. About 3 hours due to the mountain roads. A long way from any suburbs. Not to mention that Fargo is huge compared to either Boone or Statesboro. They really are small towns in the middle of nowhere. Sure the schools are in states with big populations that have schools all over, but they are nowhere near those big populations. Yes NC and GA are bigger in pop than ND, and they can bus easier to some locations, but Boone and Statesboro are not high population areas. Not even close. And it's a long, long way to TX, LA, and Ark from Boone and hard to get there for their Sunbelt festivities. It's almost 300M to CCU from Boone. It's over 300 miles to Hotlanta from Boone, although only about 100 to Charlotte, the closest city. Even GaSo is about 240M from Hotlanta (GA is a big state)...about the same distance between Fargo and Minneapolis. Pretty sure both of these schools travel budget went up a lot after leaving the relatively compact travel requirements of the SOCON. I know you were not looking strictly at travel but more on general visibility and support, but to be honest, these schools are both still afterthoughts to most residents of NC and GA when it comes to football. Even if their fans will scream and claim otherwise. The ACC and SEC rule. I've lived in both of these states for the last 15 years (9 in GA and 6 in NC).

[POD Knows]

Our other teams at the higher level? Every other team sport NDSU sponsors is a the Division I level now. Only difference is we compete in the Summit as opposed to whatever conference NDSU would supposedly join.
Yea. How would NDSU MBB and WBB perform in “G5” conferences? How about baseball. Womens softball. I support a move up if done right.

[ElCid]

Yea. How would NDSU MBB and WBB perform in “G5” conferences? How about baseball. Womens softball. I support a move up if done right.

Eh "most" G5 and even "some" P5 schools are not as impressive in other sports as many FCS schools are. Some sports, but not all.

[Professor Chaos]

Our other teams at the higher level? Every other team sport NDSU sponsors is a the Division I level now. Only difference is we compete in the Summit as opposed to whatever conference NDSU would supposedly join.
NDSU would have to significantly increase their budget for sports like men's and women's basketball if they joined the MWC. Beyond the increased travel costs the MWC pays their coaches (a lot) more and schedules better than the Summit League does.

[POD Knows]

Eh "most" G5 and even "some" P5 schools are not as impressive in other sports as many FCS schools are. Some sports, but not all.
NDSU has very good track and field teams, pretty decent wrestling (they are in the Big 12 for that) but it would be a challenge in everything else. Our WBB, who used to be a powerhouse, can’t beat the dregs in the Summit, and out MBB only seems to be able to beat Summit teams.

[Winterborn]

Well, to be "more" accurate both App St and GaSo are in their state's respective "sticks." Boone is actually not that far from me. About 3 hours due to the mountain roads. A long way from any suburbs. Not to mention that Fargo is huge compared to either Boone or Statesboro. They really are small towns in the middle of nowhere. Sure the schools are in states with big populations that have schools all over, but they are nowhere near those big populations. Yes NC and GA are bigger in pop than ND, and they can bus easier to some locations, but Boone and Statesboro are not high population areas. Not even close. And it's a long, long way to TX, LA, and Ark from Boone and hard to get there for their Sunbelt festivities. It's almost 300M to CCU from Boone. It's over 300 miles to Hotlanta from Boone, although only about 100 to Charlotte, the closest city. Even GaSo is about 240M from Hotlanta (GA is a big state)...about the same distance between Fargo and Minneapolis. Pretty sure both of these schools travel budget went up a lot after leaving the relatively compact travel requirements of the SOCON. I know you were not looking strictly at travel but more on general visibility and support, but to be honest, these schools are both still afterthoughts to most residents of NC and GA when it comes to football. Even if their fans will scream and claim otherwise. The ACC and SEC rule. I've lived in both of these states for the last 15 years (9 in GA and 6 in NC).

You summed up my thoughts exactly. xthumbsupx

Being on the East Coast gives many more options than being on the Northern Edge of the Great Plains. Minneapolis would be the closest. Lincoln, NE is 475 miles and at that point you are talking flights for just about all the rest of the sports to meets. If it was for Football only, it might be doable, depending on the conference, but for the rest of the Athletic Department, we would go broke without massively increasing funding. Which is highly unlikely to happen as the State will not be increasing funding (at least in those amounts).

[NY Crusader 2010]

Well, to be "more" accurate both App St and GaSo are in their state's respective "sticks." Boone is actually not that far from me. About 3 hours due to the mountain roads. A long way from any suburbs. Not to mention that Fargo is huge compared to either Boone or Statesboro. They really are small towns in the middle of nowhere. Sure the schools are in states with big populations that have schools all over, but they are nowhere near those big populations. Yes NC and GA are bigger in pop than ND, and they can bus easier to some locations, but Boone and Statesboro are not high population areas. Not even close. And it's a long, long way to TX, LA, and Ark from Boone and hard to get there for their Sunbelt festivities. It's almost 300M to CCU from Boone. It's over 300 miles to Hotlanta from Boone, although only about 100 to Charlotte, the closest city. Even GaSo is about 240M from Hotlanta (GA is a big state)...about the same distance between Fargo and Minneapolis. Pretty sure both of these schools travel budget went up a lot after leaving the relatively compact travel requirements of the SOCON. I know you were not looking strictly at travel but more on general visibility and support, but to be honest, these schools are both still afterthoughts to most residents of NC and GA when it comes to football. Even if their fans will scream and claim otherwise. The ACC and SEC rule. I've lived in both of these states for the last 15 years (9 in GA and 6 in NC).

I think that's actually part of what makes the Sun Belt great is that these schools all for the most part have a large, organic, alumni-and-local based following. App State doesn't NEED to agressively market its football program to potential subway alumni in Charlotte because a) they don't need them and b) good luck competing for mind-share with UNC, NC State, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, UNC Charlotte and the Carolina Panthers. Unlike CUSA and AAC, which have focused on adding media markets, the Sun Belt has put together a league of winning programs with tons of support. I remember in a prior AAC expansion discussion someone pointed out that JMU was part of the DC media market. Zero people in and around DC that didn't go to JMU care or will ever care about JMU football. But you know who does? The 20K+ alumni that attend every home game at Bridgeforth Stadium. JMU will fit right in with App, Georgia Southern and Marshall. Georgia State is a little more of the UCF model -- large commuter school relying on a gigantic alumni network to create a fan base in a media market where they are 4th fiddle in the football bandwagon pecking order behind Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons and Georgia Tech.

A little unrelated but when I traveled to Hilton Head for a bachelor party in September I flew into Savannah and noticed a ton of Georgia Southern signage and advertising in the area. I guess they are trying to peddle themselves as the local team for the Savannah-HHI area.

[walliver]

I think that's actually part of what makes the Sun Belt great is that these schools all for the most part have a large, organic, alumni-and-local based following. App State doesn't NEED to agressively market its football program to potential subway alumni in Charlotte because a) they don't need them and b) good luck competing for mind-share with UNC, NC State, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, UNC Charlotte and the Carolina Panthers. Unlike CUSA and AAC, which have focused on adding media markets, the Sun Belt has put together a league of winning programs with tons of support. I remember in a prior AAC expansion discussion someone pointed out that JMU was part of the DC media market. Zero people in and around DC that didn't go to JMU care or will ever care about JMU football. But you know who does? The 20K+ alumni that attend every home game at Bridgeforth Stadium. JMU will fit right in with App, Georgia Southern and Marshall. Georgia State is a little more of the UCF model -- large commuter school relying on a gigantic alumni network to create a fan base in a media market where they are 4th fiddle in the football bandwagon pecking order behind Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons and Georgia Tech.

A little unrelated but when I traveled to Hilton Head for a bachelor party in September I flew into Savannah and noticed a ton of Georgia Southern signage and advertising in the area. I guess they are trying to peddle themselves as the local team for the Savannah-HHI area.

I doubt Georgia State is as popular as you list. Because many people from around the South migrate to Atlanta, I suspect that Auburn, South Carolina, and Alabama may have more fans (fewer alumni but more fans) than Georgia State.

As for Georgia Southern and Savannah, the state of Georgia merged Armstrong Atlantic University into Georgia Southern, so there is now a Georgia Southern campus in Savannah.

[BisonBacker]

Yea. How would NDSU MBB and WBB perform in “G5” conferences? How about baseball. Womens softball. I support a move up if done right.

It's only my opinion but I think they would compete very well. Obviously MBB would likely be the most scrutinized as other than football it's the highest profile sport. Hopefully MBB continues to improve regardless of what conference we play in but it would be one of it not thee most challenging.

[POD Knows]

It's only my opinion but I think they would compete very well. Obviously MBB would likely be the most scrutinized as other than football it's the highest profile sport. Hopefully MBB continues to improve regardless of what conference we play in but it would be one of it not thee most challenging.
WBB would be worse.

[BisonBacker]

WBB would be worse.

Not sure how you could get much worse.

[POD Knows]

Not sure how you could get much worse.
They are on a mild trajectory up but it is about a 5 degree angle.

[BisonBacker]

They are on a mild trajectory up but it is about a 5 degree angle.
It's been like sitting at the ocean shore with a ruler trying to measure the rise in the sea level due to "Global Warming" xlolx

[POD Knows]

It's been like sitting at the ocean shore with a ruler trying to measure the rise in the sea level due to "Global Warming" xlolx
Yea. Except that sitting on a beach, looking at the water and the tide might actually have some entertainment value. 🙂

[BisonBacker]

Yea. Except that sitting on a beach, looking at the water and the tide might actually have some entertainment value. 

Only if there is skimpy bikini clad good looking women :D

[ElCid]

I think that's actually part of what makes the Sun Belt great is that these schools all for the most part have a large, organic, alumni-and-local based following. App State doesn't NEED to agressively market its football program to potential subway alumni in Charlotte because a) they don't need them and b) good luck competing for mind-share with UNC, NC State, Duke, Clemson, South Carolina, UNC Charlotte and the Carolina Panthers. Unlike CUSA and AAC, which have focused on adding media markets, the Sun Belt has put together a league of winning programs with tons of support. I remember in a prior AAC expansion discussion someone pointed out that JMU was part of the DC media market. Zero people in and around DC that didn't go to JMU care or will ever care about JMU football. But you know who does? The 20K+ alumni that attend every home game at Bridgeforth Stadium. JMU will fit right in with App, Georgia Southern and Marshall. Georgia State is a little more of the UCF model -- large commuter school relying on a gigantic alumni network to create a fan base in a media market where they are 4th fiddle in the football bandwagon pecking order behind Georgia, the Atlanta Falcons and Georgia Tech.

A little unrelated but when I traveled to Hilton Head for a bachelor party in September I flew into Savannah and noticed a ton of Georgia Southern signage and advertising in the area. I guess they are trying to peddle themselves as the local team for the Savannah-HHI area.

That's all pretty accurate from my view as well. Those schools have a deep fan base because they built it over time, with the help of winning as well. Their attendance in their respective podunk towns is very good. They have had signs up for GaSo on I-95 and I-16 for years. I remember seeing them when I would travel back and forth to Charleston. Both of their fan based also traveled well when they were in the SOCON. I can see JMU along the same lines.

[dgtw]

The Sun Belt chose actual programs instead of markets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AmsterBison]

If you can't play yourself into an FBS conference, you can't play yourself out of the FCS.

[POD Knows]

Only if there is skimpy bikini clad good looking women :D
They lost to freaking St Thomas. Ignore my trajectory comment, that team is a basket case and has been for quite a while

[Professor Chaos]

Food for thought... we never even got to see what could've been the best Bison team of the last decade due to COVID derailing the fall 2020 season.

That said I don't think the fall 2021 team would've been as good without the spring season, and the adversity it brought, to help mold them.

[HootyHoo]

North Dakota St should definitely wait to see how the NCAA constitutional convention plays out before making a move. As that article states, there is a distinct possibility that the Power 5 leaves the NCAA model all together. Creating a new league controlled by the conference commissioners and school presidents.
The NCAA would then respond by doing away with subdivisions and creating a new D1 consisting of the G5 and FCS. The playoff model would be the same, 24 teams. Ivy and Celebration Bowl still does their thing. A major reorganization and realignment of the conferences would happen as well.

[100%GRIZ]

Your Dad was a very smart man. I was a bus driver (city bus in Missoula) & I got to know many professors on route 12. I got contacts with the help of my wife in order to get the football schedule early and get dates needed off to see home football games until I built up seniority and got all Saturdays off. I along with other fellow bus drivers knew what was going on most of the time Griz wise. We were not dummies either, ex lawyer, microbiologist, & I also had a degree from the U of MT. We all wanted to live in Missoula and became bus drivers to get to that goal!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Food for thought... we never even got to see what could've been the best Bison team of the last decade due to COVID derailing the fall 2020 season.

That said I don't think the fall 2021 team would've been as good without the spring season, and the adversity it brought, to help mold them.

I was going to say, "Wouldn't it have been the same team that lost in the semis in the spring of 2021?"

Then I realized, oh wait, Trey Lance.

[Christiank22]

I was going to say, "Wouldn't it have been the same team that lost in the semis in the spring of 2021?"

Then I realized, oh wait, Trey Lance.

And second round draft pick, current NFL starting offensive tackle for the Titans, Dillon Radunz

[Chalupa Batman]

And second round draft pick, current NFL starting offensive tackle for the Titans, Dillon Radunz

Losing CB Josh Hayes in the fall of 2020 when we weren't playing hurt a lot too. As did losing our O-line coach right as the spring season was starting. We also lost RB Adam Cofield in the fall of 2020.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Answering the question: yes, they have.

But the FCS has also played itself out.

The Ivy has schools who could win but the conference doesn't compete. The MEAC and SWAC prefer the ABC contract. The Pioneer League doesn't really try. Neither does the NEC. Powerhouses from the past have either fallen apart or moved to the FBS.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

The Sun Belt chose actual programs instead of markets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, GA State was a market move, but yes to the other teams.

[Gil Dobie]

Answering the question: yes, they have.

But the FCS has also played itself out.

The Ivy has schools who could win but the conference doesn't compete. The MEAC and SWAC prefer the ABC contract. The Pioneer League doesn't really try. Neither does the NEC. Powerhouses from the past have either fallen apart or moved to the FBS.

I'm not confident on the Ivy's, maybe CAA level without JMU.

9/11 NDSU 64 Valpo 0
9/18 Dartmouth 28 Valpo 18

[POD Knows]

I'm not confident on the Ivy's, maybe CAA level without JMU.

9/11 NDSU 64 Valpo 0
9/18 Dartmouth 28 Valpo 18
Exactly. I don’t care if you had an off day or not, there is no explaining that away.

[caribbeanhen]

I'm not confident on the Ivy's, maybe CAA level without JMU.

9/11 NDSU 64 Valpo 0
9/18 Dartmouth 28 Valpo 18

that wasn’t the only OOC game the Ivies played but you only use that game to make your poison Ivy argument

- - - Updated - - -


Exactly. I don’t care if you had an off day or not, there is no explaining that away.

BS you had 3 Ivies in your poll

[Gil Dobie]

that wasn’t the only OOC game the Ivies played but you only use that game to make your poison Ivy argument

- - - Updated - - -



BS you had 3 Ivies in your poll

Best win by an Ivy? Holy Cross?

[POD Knows]

that wasn’t the only OOC game the Ivies played but you only use that game to make your poison Ivy argument

- - - Updated - - -



BS you had 3 Ivies in your poll
Lessor of 3 evils.

[Professor Chaos]

More food for thought... one of the 2 Bison teams that didn't win a championship in the last 11 seasons beat an Iowa team that played in the Rose Bowl the year before, was ranked #10 in the Coach's poll at the time, and outgained them 126 to -10 in the 4th quarter.

Again this is one of the 2 Bison teams in the last 11 seasons that didn't win an FCS championship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvOOq8PZm0

[NY Crusader 2010]

More food for thought... one of the 2 Bison teams that didn't win a championship in the last 11 seasons beat an Iowa team that played in the Rose Bowl the year before, was ranked #10 in the Coach's poll at the time, and outgained them 126 to -10 in the 4th quarter.

Again this is one of the 2 Bison teams in the last 11 seasons that didn't win an FCS championship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvOOq8PZm0

I forgot that Bison team didn't win. I watched that 4th quarter at a hotel bar in Vermont as a good friend of mine was getting married in Burlington later that day. And they weren't even the Valley team to advance the furthest in the playoffs that season. That year, Bison lost to JMU in semis at the Dome and JMU beat Youngstown in Frisco.

[taper]

I forgot that Bison team didn't win. I watched that 4th quarter at a hotel bar in Vermont as a good friend of mine was getting married in Burlington later that day. And they weren't even the Valley team to advance the furthest in the playoffs that season. That year, Bison lost to JMU in semis at the Dome and JMU beat Youngstown in Frisco.
One minor semantic correction that's relevant to this thread: NDSU didn't lose to JMU, they BEAT us. Not at all a fluke, not the fault of the refs or a bad break, the better team won and everybody knew it. The FCS needs more teams to step up like that.

[POD Knows]

One minor semantic correction that's relevant to this thread: NDSU didn't lose to JMU, they BEAT us. Not at all a fluke, not the fault of the refs or a bad break, the better team won and everybody knew it. The FCS needs more teams to step up like that.
That JMU team that beat us in 2016 is the best team that NDSU has played, FCS or FBS, during this run.

[UNHWildcat18]

One minor semantic correction that's relevant to this thread: NDSU didn't lose to JMU, they BEAT us. Not at all a fluke, not the fault of the refs or a bad break, the better team won and everybody knew it. The FCS needs more teams to step up like that.

lol just saying teams need to step up doesn’t mean it can happen. Hasn’t really happened for 10 years. Only a small handful of teams have the resources to even make it possible

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

More food for thought... one of the 2 Bison teams that didn't win a championship in the last 11 seasons beat an Iowa team that played in the Rose Bowl the year before, was ranked #10 in the Coach's poll at the time, and outgained them 126 to -10 in the 4th quarter.

Again this is one of the 2 Bison teams in the last 11 seasons that didn't win an FCS championship.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQvOOq8PZm0

I was at the Temple vs Penn State game at Happy Valley that day. There were gasps abound when the score was announced/updated. I simply knew it wasn't anything to be surprised about....

The wins over legitimately good K-State and Iowa teams was damn impressive!

[caribbeanhen]

One minor semantic correction that's relevant to this thread: NDSU didn't lose to JMU, they BEAT us. Not at all a fluke, not the fault of the refs or a bad break, the better team won and everybody knew it. The FCS needs more teams to step up like that.

The FCS teams that actually beat the Bison recently are stepping up to FBS

[Gil Dobie]

The FCS teams that actually beat the Bison recently are stepping up to FBS

SIU & SDSU?

[caribbeanhen]

SIU & SDSU?

Sammy
JMU

we can go back 5 years and still count the defeats on one hand

[Gil Dobie]

Sammy
JMU

we can go back 5 years and still count the defeats on one hand

JMU was 6 seasons ago, so yes, 3 times to SDSU, Sam and SIU. SDSU gets beat in the playoffs every year.

[caribbeanhen]

JMU was 6 seasons ago, so yes, 3 times to SDSU, Sam and SIU. SDSU gets beat in the playoffs every year.

Everybody gets beat in the playoffs except who? The Bison


for past 11 seasons only JMU and Sammy have managed not to

[POD Knows]

Everybody gets beat in the playoffs except who? The Bison


for past 11 seasons only JMU and Sammy* have managed not to

FYP.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The last current FCS school, excluding those that announced imminent move-ups, other than NDSU to have won a national championship is Eastern Washington. EWU won in 2010. The two champs prior to that were Villanova in 2009 and Richmond and 2008, both of whom are still down here with us. The 3 years prior to that belonged to App State, now of the Sun Belt.

[NY Crusader 2010]

OK I'm going to have some fun with this. Excluding schools that have left FCS and not returned, or are planning to leave, here is the ENTIRE LIST of all time championships won:

North Dakota State (9) => 2011-15; 2017-19; 2021
Youngstown State (4) => 1991; 1993-94; 1997
Montana (2) => 1995; 2001
Eastern Kentucky (2) => 1979; 1982
Eastern Washington (1) => 2010
Villanova (1) => 2009
Richmond (1) => 2008
Delaware (1) => 2003
Furman (1) => 1988
Montana State (1) => 1984
Southern Illinois (1) => 1983
Idaho State (1) => 1981
Florida A&M (1) => 1978

[walliver]

OK I'm going to have some fun with this. Excluding schools that have left FCS and not returned, or are planning to leave, here is the ENTIRE LIST of all time championships won:

North Dakota State (9) => 2011-15; 2017-19; 2021
Youngstown State (4) => 1991; 1993-94; 1997
Montana (2) => 1995; 2001
Eastern Kentucky (2) => 1979; 1982
Eastern Washington (1) => 2010
Villanova (1) => 2009
Richmond (1) => 2008
Delaware (1) => 2003
Furman (1) => 1988
Montana State (1) => 1984
Southern Illinois (1) => 1983
Idaho State (1) => 1981
Florida A&M (1) => 1978

Only one of those schools has won a championship after 2010.
Seven of those schools haven't won this millennium.
The OVC, SoCon and MEAC haven't won since the 80's ... and the sole MEAC champ is no longer in the MEAC.
All three CAA championships were in the 2003-2009 era.
The PL, PFL, Big South and SWAC (or MEAC if you choose) have no-one on the list.
The last MVFC/Gateway champion not from Fargo was 1997.

Lots of trivia, but basically, no-one on the list which is not NDSU has won a championship since 2010.

NDSU will be around a good while. Basically because no-one in the G5 wants them. Why bring in a team a long travel distance away that will just embarrass you on the field without bringing in a big TV market.

[caribbeanhen]

Only one of those schools has won a championship after 2010.
Seven of those schools haven't won this millennium.
The OVC, SoCon and MEAC haven't won since the 80's ... and the sole MEAC champ is no longer in the MEAC.
All three CAA championships were in the 2003-2009 era.
The PL, PFL, Big South and SWAC (or MEAC if you choose) have no-one on the list.
The last MVFC/Gateway champion not from Fargo was 1997.

Lots of trivia, but basically, no-one on the list which is not NDSU has won a championship since 2010.

NDSU will be around a good while. Basically because no-one in the G5 wants them. Why bring in a team a long travel distance away that will just embarrass you on the field without bringing in a big TV market.

Yep, the entire FCS is now Paul McCartney & Wings

and we all know who Paul is

[NY Crusader 2010]

Only one of those schools has won a championship after 2010.
Seven of those schools haven't won this millennium.
The OVC, SoCon and MEAC haven't won since the 80's ... and the sole MEAC champ is no longer in the MEAC.
All three CAA championships were in the 2003-2009 era.
The PL, PFL, Big South and SWAC (or MEAC if you choose) have no-one on the list.
The last MVFC/Gateway champion not from Fargo was 1997.

Lots of trivia, but basically, no-one on the list which is not NDSU has won a championship since 2010.

NDSU will be around a good while. Basically because no-one in the G5 wants them. Why bring in a team a long travel distance away that will just embarrass you on the field without bringing in a big TV market.

Exactly. This run of dominance is astounding. A school moves up from DII in 2003, is a full DI member by 2006, and has 9 championships fifteen years after that. The most fascinating question to me is, "who could be next"? That answer could very well be a school who hasn't even moved up to DI yet.

[POD Knows]

Exactly. This run of dominance is astounding. A school moves up from DII in 2003, is a full DI member by 2006, and has 9 championships fifteen years after that. The most fascinating question to me is, "who could be next"? That answer could very well be a school who hasn't even moved up to DI yet.
When was NDSU actually eligible for the FCS playoffs? I thought it was 08 or 09.

The Bison were 10-1 in both 06 and 07 I believe and no playoffs.

[taper]

If EWU had even a halfways competent defense in the 2010s the Bison story might be different. Great offense, but there were allowing 30-50 points against the good teams. Really hard to make it through the playoff bracket that way. Stop even 1-2 scores and they're looking at rings.

[caribbeanhen]

The most fascinating question to me is, "who could be next"? That answer could very well be a school who hasn't even moved up to DI yet.

Ryan Carty at Delaware should be asking himself that question

He has the resources and facilities to jump up and challenge the Bison

Nova too 😆

[NY Crusader 2010]

When was NDSU actually eligible for the FCS playoffs? I thought it was 08 or 09.

The Bison were 10-1 in both 06 and 07 I believe and no playoffs.

You would know better than me. Could've been '09 if the transition period is five years. I know for sure NDSU was still fully D2 at end of 02-03 academic year because a family friend of mine who was 3 years ahead of me in HS was choosing amongst DII basketball offers -- he didn't have any DI offers. And he'd narrowed it down to NDSU and St. Rose in Albany. The guy chose St. Rose.

[NDSU1980]

When was NDSU actually eligible for the FCS playoffs? I thought it was 08 or 09.

The Bison were 10-1 in both 06 and 07 I believe and no playoffs.
The first year NDSU was eligible was 2008 and we sucked in both 08 and 09. Prior to those two years we had some ass stomping teams that would have made some good playoff runs but couldn't qualify. In 2007 we were undefeated until about 2 minutes before the end of the season. That was when I first learned to hate rabbits.

[POD Knows]

The first year NDSU was eligible was 2008 and we sucked in both 08 and 09. Prior to those two years we had some ass stomping teams that would have made some good playoff runs but couldn't qualify. In 2007 we were undefeated until about 2 minutes before the end of the season. That was when I first learned to hate rabbits.
Thanks. That is what I remember. I bought my first season tickets in 2007 and that was a good team and would have contented for a Natty.

[dewey]

Thanks. That is what I remember. I bought my first season tickets in 2007 and that was a good team and would have contented for a Natty.

The 2006 team was pretty darn good too. The 2006 team's only loss was to Minnesota 10-9.

The 2007 team had quite a few big comebacks to stay undefeated until SDSU beat them at the end.

Dewey

[POD Knows]

The 2006 team was pretty darn good too. The 2006 team's only loss was to Minnesota 10-9.

The 2007 team had quite a few big comebacks to stay undefeated until SDSU beat them at the end.

Dewey
Yea. They dominated the Gophers that day, special teams killed them.

[Gil Dobie]

Yea. They dominated the Gophers that day, special teams killed them.

Muffed punt and a blocked FG at the end.

[NY Crusader 2010]

You guys beat Minnesota a couple years later if I remember correctly.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Thanks. That is what I remember. I bought my first season tickets in 2007 and that was a good team and would have contented for a Natty.

2007 was a really solid playoff field. App State won the title -- that was the team that opened the season beating #5 Michigan. Delaware was runner-up and had Flacco that year. UD beat a very good Navy team that season. Southern Illinois and UMASS were both very strong that season as well. Unlike a lot of the 2010's, NDSU would have had some uphill battles in that playoff field, especially if they had to do it away from the friendly confines of the Fargo Dome.

[caribbeanhen]

2007 was a really solid playoff field. App State won the title -- that was the team that opened the season beating #5 Michigan. Delaware was runner-up and had Flacco that year. UD beat a very good Navy team that season. Southern Illinois and UMASS were both very strong that season as well. Unlike a lot of the 2010's, NDSU would have had some uphill battles in that playoff field, especially if they had to do it away from the friendly confines of the Fargo Dome.

Good memory

Yep, Delaware went on the road and beat N Iowa and S Illinois before eventually losing pretty bad to Appalachian St in final. Flacco had a big day in that Navy game.

[POD Knows]

Good memory

Yep, Delaware went on the road and beat N Iowa and S Illinois before eventually losing pretty bad to Appalachian St in final. Flacco had a big day in that Navy game.
The NDSU team beat 2 FBS teams in 2007. Granted neither one of them was Michigan but they beat the Gophers and Central Michigan and Central Michigan was pretty decent that year.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The NDSU team beat 2 FBS teams in 2007. Granted neither one of them was Michigan but they beat the Gophers and Central Michigan and Central Michigan was pretty decent that year.

Central Michigan was a bowl team around then. Maybe not that year for certain but definitely within the next year or two. They had Antonio Brown, who was either a freshman or sophomore on the '07 team. But their top NFL draft prospect at that time was QB Dan LeFevour, who got drafted in the sixth or seventh round by the Bears and wound up kicking around the Canadian Football League as a backup for the better part of a decade.

Is the Minnesota game in 2006 NDSU's only FBS loss?

Edit: I looked it up and Central Michigan WON the MAC in 2007, losing to Purdue in the Motor City Bowl to finish 8-5. You guys beat them by THIRTY (44-14) that year. So yes safe to say you guys would've been a contender to make a deep playoff run that season. I knew NDSU was good then but I did not realize that you guys were a TOP 5 program all season long that year. Perhaps my memory is blurred because you guys dropped off a little bit the next couple seasons before blasting off on the run that continues to this day.

[POD Knows]

Central Michigan was a bowl team around then. Maybe not that year for certain but definitely within the next year or two. They had Antonio Brown, who was either a freshman or sophomore on the '07 team. But their top NFL draft prospect at that time was QB Dan LeFevour, who got drafted in the sixth or seventh round by the Bears and wound up kicking around the Canadian Football League as a backup for the better part of a decade.

Is the Minnesota game in 2006 NDSU's only FBS loss?
Central Michigan lost to Purdue in the Motor City Bowl in 2007. Close game, no idea if Purdue was decent or not but NDSU stomped CM that year 44-14. I wouldn’t have bet against NDSU against any of the top FCS teams that year.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Central Michigan lost to Purdue in the Motor City Bowl in 2007. Close game, no idea if Purdue was decent or not but NDSU stomped CM that year 44-14. I wouldn’t have bet against NDSU against any of the top FCS teams that year.

100%. I went back and looked it up. I remember when I was in college knowing about your program and that you guys were very good but I forgot NDSU was ranked that high that early in their FCS days. I think because of the very brief drop-off the next couple of seasons, I kind of forgot the Bison were a Top 5 team by 2007. And were in the Top 3 for most of that year.

[Professor Chaos]

Is the Minnesota game in 2006 NDSU's only FBS loss?
They also lost to Wyoming in 2008 and Iowa St in 2009 (the Iowa St game being the only FBS loss by more than 3 points). In other words they haven't lost to an FBS team in more than 12 years. :D

They're 9-3 vs FBS teams since moving to D1.

[caribbeanhen]

They also lost to Wyoming in 2008 and Iowa St in 2009 (the Iowa St game being the only FBS loss by more than 3 points). In other words they haven't lost to an FBS team in more than 12 years. :D

They're 9-3 vs FBS teams since moving to D1.

15 years ago my FCS knowledge was pretty much non existent outside of the CAA or who Delaware was playing, but I do vaguely remember all the talk that North Dakota State was going to be moving up. I guess the Herd had just started to migrate over to AGS about that time. First Bison game I watched was your playoff game vs a not that good JMU team in 2011.... and 11 years later here we are.

I was hoping your FBS game would be against a better team than Arizona, would be nice to see the Bison put a curb stomping on em

[NDSU1980]

They also lost to Wyoming in 2008 and Iowa St in 2009 (the Iowa St game being the only FBS loss by more than 3 points). In other words they haven't lost to an FBS team in more than 12 years. :D

They're 9-3 vs FBS teams since moving to D1.And Wyoming loss shouldn't have happened. We were ahead at half time. Certain QB fell apart after he threw and INT.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Wow...didn't even realize the Bison have Arizona as their FBS game next year. They lost to Northern Arizona in 2021. Unless the Wildcats are much improved, NDSU will be favored.

The big FBS challenge you had was supposed to be Oregon in 2020, which obviously got cancelled due to COVID.

[ST_Lawson]

The big FBS challenge you had was supposed to be Oregon in 2020, which obviously got cancelled due to COVID.

Rescheduled to 2028, actually: https://fbschedules.com/2020-north-dakota-state-oregon-football-game-rescheduled-for-2028/

[BisonBacker]

On a sidenote. I think it's kind of funny how some NDSU fans poopoo the FBS move up talk for NDSU for a number of reasons. But just a brief review of this thread and many others you'll see the same discussion about the FBS wins and how wonderful those games were. Yet you'll get so many fans then saying NDSU wouldn't be able to compete on a regular basis at that level. Not saying the guys here discussing it are those fans just saying I've heard it from other fans who just can't talk enough about the KState win or the Minnesota wins or the Win against Iowa and then go on to make the aforementioned comments. It's rather comical.

[Professor Chaos]

On a sidenote. I think it's kind of funny how some NDSU fans poopoo the FBS move up talk for NDSU for a number of reasons. But just a brief review of this thread and many others you'll see the same discussion about the FBS wins and how wonderful those games were. Yet you'll get so many fans then saying NDSU wouldn't be able to compete on a regular basis at that level. Not saying the guys here discussing it are those fans just saying I've heard it from other fans who just can't talk enough about the KState win or the Minnesota wins or the Win against Iowa and then go on to make the aforementioned comments. It's rather comical.
Is anybody, Bison fan or otherwise, saying NDSU football wouldn't be able to compete at the FBS level? That's the least of my concerns about an FBS move for NDSU. I'd worry much more about the rest of the programs in the athletic department being able to compete at the MWC-type level given their current funding or lack thereof.

[ST_Lawson]

Is anybody, Bison fan or otherwise, saying NDSU football wouldn't be able to compete at the FBS level? That's the least of my concerns about an FBS move for NDSU. I'd worry much more about the rest of the programs in the athletic department being able to compete at the MWC-type level given their current funding or lack thereof.

I've seen FBS fans say it...essentially that playing those FBS games every weekend for a season will wear them down and they won't be able to sustain it. The only reason that might be the case right now is because of the scholarship limit. NDSU goes FBS and that scholarship limit is raised, they have the same "depth" available to them that other FBS teams do, and I think they would be able to compete just fine in any conference at the G5 level. Obviously the MWC makes the most sense geographically at this point, regardless of the likelihood of it actually happening.

Until I see more than 1 fluke year of a "down" NDSU team, I'm not going to bet against them being able to compete with just about anyone outside of probably the top 10-20 FBS teams.

[ElCid]

On a sidenote. I think it's kind of funny how some NDSU fans poopoo the FBS move up talk for NDSU for a number of reasons. But just a brief review of this thread and many others you'll see the same discussion about the FBS wins and how wonderful those games were. Yet you'll get so many fans then saying NDSU wouldn't be able to compete on a regular basis at that level. Not saying the guys here discussing it are those fans just saying I've heard it from other fans who just can't talk enough about the KState win or the Minnesota wins or the Win against Iowa and then go on to make the aforementioned comments. It's rather comical.

I think they could compete. But, there is drawback once a team actually is FBS. And that is, that likely recruits are no longer going to a premier program, relatively speaking for the entire subdivision. That being a team that wins on a regular basis including conf and division championships. I don't know the bread and butter recruits NDSU gets now. Are they NDSU diehards or primarily drawn to the winning. Once any team moved up, there is bound to be a reset in expectations and the same pool of recruits may not be available or interested. But, since NDSU showed how it moved from Div II to I, there may not be much drop off at all. But I think there was a little drop after the first couple years of transition. It's an interesting dynamic.

Many good teams, who were long term FCS and not "pass throughs," experienced some turmoil in quality and success. Some never recovered like UMass. Some are still TBD, like GaSo. Some didn't miss a beat apparently like App St. But none of these teams will ever sniff another national championship. Is that worth even a little in the recruitment category? I think it is, a little.

[BisonFan02]

Those 06 and 07 Bison teams were good....but they didn't have the depth on the roster that they have now.

[Gil Dobie]

I've seen FBS fans say it...essentially that playing those FBS games every weekend for a season will wear them down and they won't be able to sustain it. The only reason that might be the case right now is because of the scholarship limit. NDSU goes FBS and that scholarship limit is raised, they have the same "depth" available to them that other FBS teams do, and I think they would be able to compete just fine in any conference at the G5 level. Obviously the MWC makes the most sense geographically at this point, regardless of the likelihood of it actually happening.

Until I see more than 1 fluke year of a "down" NDSU team, I'm not going to bet against them being able to compete with just about anyone outside of probably the top 10-20 FBS teams.

Beyond those additional scholarships you mentioned, for those FBS fans, moving to FBS, would mean some of the FBS games are at home versus all of them on the road.

[Herder]

Beyond those additional scholarships you mentioned, for those FBS fans, moving to FBS, would mean some of the FBS games are at home versus all of them on the road.

Are you going to take a greater pounding in the MAC than you do in the MVFC? NO, not much.
Is your conference schedule going to be significantly harder in the MAC than the MVFC? No, not terribly, look at Sagarin ratings.

It depends on where in the FBS you go. CUSA<MAC<SBC<MWC New AAC??

You step up in 2-3 games a year where you play a SEC, B1G, B12, ACC, P12, depending on who you schedule. Yes, the MWC would be a significantly greater physical toll, and I"m sure the SBC would be also, but I would not be afraid to play physical football on the SBC.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Those 06 and 07 Bison teams were good....but they didn't have the depth on the roster that they have now.

And those teams, as pointed out by your fellow alum, would've competed with just about anyone outside of App State had they been playoff eligible.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I think they could compete. But, there is drawback once a team actually is FBS. And that is, that likely recruits are no longer going to a premier program, relatively speaking for the entire subdivision. That being a team that wins on a regular basis including conf and division championships. I don't know the bread and butter recruits NDSU gets now. Are they NDSU diehards or primarily drawn to the winning. Once any team moved up, there is bound to be a reset in expectations and the same pool of recruits may not be available or interested. But, since NDSU showed how it moved from Div II to I, there may not be much drop off at all. But I think there was a little drop after the first couple years of transition. It's an interesting dynamic.

Many good teams, who were long term FCS and not "pass throughs," experienced some turmoil in quality and success. Some never recovered like UMass. Some are still TBD, like GaSo. Some didn't miss a beat apparently like App St. But none of these teams will ever sniff another national championship. Is that worth even a little in the recruitment category? I think it is, a little.

NDSU has been multiples more dominant in FCS than they were in D-II. I looked up their modern D-II history leading up to the move-up and they were a very good program but by no means dominant. Nor were they the clear flagship in their own conference. Basically on par with Northern Colorado and UND, programs they've lapped since they all moved up. Clearly, the program found its sweet spot.

If NDSU moved up to FBS, I'd project them year over year to be on par with the likes of Nevada, Utah State, Northern Illinois and Wyoming.

[Lorne_Malvo]

https://i.imgur.com/iQ2HVDP.jpeg

[Professor Chaos]

NDSU has been multiples more dominant in FCS than they were in D-II. I looked up their modern D-II history leading up to the move-up and they were a very good program but by no means dominant. Nor were they the clear flagship in their own conference. Basically on par with Northern Colorado and UND, programs they've lapped since they all moved up. Clearly, the program found its sweet spot.

If NDSU moved up to FBS, I'd project them year over year to be on par with the likes of Nevada, Utah State, Northern Illinois and Wyoming.
NDSU was dominant in D2 the 80s. They had a 10+ game winning streak over UND. If not for a last second 50 yard FG by Troy in the 1984 D2 natty they would've won 4 straight national titles from 1983-1986 and 6 out of 8 from 1983-1990. They fell off in the 90s, despite many of the top D2 programs from the 80s moving to D1, and there's multiple reasons for that but a big one was D2 as a whole voted to reduce scholarships. NDSU should've went D1 a good 10 years before they did... I'm sure that's in the minds of many Bison fans who are pushing hard for them to move to FBS now.

[Gil Dobie]

9 – North Dakota State (9-0)
8 – Georgia Southern (6-2)
7 – Youngstown State (4-3) and Montana (2-5)
6 – Marshall (2-4)
4 – Eastern Kentucky (2-2), James Madison (2-2) and Delaware (1-3)

[Gil Dobie]

Still have a few of these teams around


9 – North Dakota State (9-0)
8 – Georgia Southern (6-2)
7 – Youngstown State (4-3) and Montana (2-5)
6 – Marshall (2-4)
4 – Eastern Kentucky (2-2), James Madison (2-2) and Delaware (1-3)

[AmsterBison]

NDSU has been multiples more dominant in FCS than they were in D-II. I looked up their modern D-II history leading up to the move-up and they were a very good program but by no means dominant. Nor were they the clear flagship in their own conference. Basically on par with Northern Colorado and UND, programs they've lapped since they all moved up. Clearly, the program found its sweet spot.

If NDSU moved up to FBS, I'd project them year over year to be on par with the likes of Nevada, Utah State, Northern Illinois and Wyoming.

Let's just be clear: NDSU was the most dominant program in the history of DII. It's been 18 years since NDSU left and only three programs have more D2 playoff wins. It took until 2016 for Northwest Missouri State to pass NDSU's national championship total (they have one more now.)

[BEAR]

Has NDSU played itself out of the FCS? No.

Has NDSU out played everyone else in the FCS? Yes.

Great program at this level that will get an invite to the FBS. Then it will be up to the donor base if they want to see a new challenge.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Let's just be clear: NDSU was the most dominant program in the history of DII. It's been 18 years since NDSU left and only three programs have more D2 playoff wins. It took until 2016 for Northwest Missouri State to pass NDSU's national championship total (they have one more now.)

I sincerely apologize for basing my analysis on you guys' record from 1990 onward.

[AmsterBison]

I sincerely apologize for basing my analysis on you guys' record from 1990 onward.

A lot of people in, even in North Dakota, think that NDSU football started in 2011 so you are way up on them. :)

You are most definitely right that my Bison had definitely sunk down to UND and UNC level by the mid 1990s, but it took a big cut in scholarship limits to level the playing field (in my opinion.)