Patriot League 2021 Thread

[DFW HOYA]

Posts on the Patriot League used to be a regular occurrence on this board, both weighty and frivolous (search for the "Lafayette vs. New Hampshire" thread for an example of the latter.). But like the league itself, it's been in decline, but the regular posters of the past are either too old or too frustrated to care.

It's a one bid league now, and is routinely overrun in non-conference play. Its longest tenured coach resigned last month and the school has put up the cone of silence as to why. Holy Cross is headed in one direction (up) and the other six are not. The coaching situations at Lehigh (Gilmore) and Lafayette (Garrett) invite scrutiny, but the local press there has been whittled away. Georgetown has posted just one winning season since joining the PL 20 years ago, and neither the school nor the league office seems overly concerned. And to top it off, the PL ended a solid OTT media deal with Stadium to pursue a subscription-only model with ESPN, further limiting its reach to all but the die-hard fans.

Meanwhile, Fordham opens against Nebraska.

Other than telling Holy Cross to keep the title for another season, what does 2021 foretell for the Patriot League?

[Tribe4SF]

Still marvel that there are a few W&M fans (small minority) who keep revisiting a move for the Tribe to the PL.

We have Lafayette in Williamsburg Sept. 11 and travel to Colgate Sept. 18. Colgate was a shadow of its former self when they visited in 2019 and things do not seem well up there. Rumor around Williamsburg that former Lafayette QB Cole Northrup may take a graduate year at W&M. We're in the market for a backup for Hollis Mathis while incoming freshman Darius Wilson (Iona Prep, NY) gets his feet on the ground.

[Sader87]

Basically, HC is once again becoming the program it was before joining a non-scholly PL. Sucks for the other schools in the PL but it is what it is.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Basically, HC is once again becoming the program it was before joining a non-scholly PL. Sucks for the other schools in the PL but it is what it is.

Actually, Holy Cross's greatest success came AFTER they joined the Colonial/Patriot League; 1986-91.

The Crusaders need to hit their home run this year. You, I and everyone knows the clock is now ticking on Chesney's stay in Worcester. I think he has the team this year to actually make waves nationally and perhaps win a playoff game or two.

A serious issue regarding the PL are the dumpster fires that the two most successful programs have become; Colgate and Lehigh. Both are in a bad spot right now with little hope for immediate success. I give Colgate a little bit of a silver lining since they have an unknown at coach. Perhaps, ridding themselves of Hunt (good but not great) will actually result in a more stable, consistent program again. Lehigh isn't going anywhere until Sterrett realizes the Gilmore hire was disaster. I think this will be the worst Lehigh team in 40+ years; no OL, no QB, a below average coaching staff. They're current losing streak (7 games) will hit 10+ games...

1. Holy Cross - Best, most well prepared team in the league; not close
2. Fordham - They might have more talent than HC but can they avoid crucial mistakes? A fringe playoff team
3. Bucknell - The offense still needs to find their way under Cech
4. Lafayette - Showed some promise during the spring. Garrett has Gilmore's number...
5. Colgate - A lot of questions but at least there's some intrigue with a new coach...
6. Lehigh - Serious issues on offense and at head coach....
7. Georgetown - Honestly, I have no idea? They could be truly awful or they might completely shock the world.....

[Fordham]

That's a great breakdown, owl. I don't push back on HC being a clear #1 but bristle a little with the "not even close" ending. As you say, we may have more overall talent than HC and I feel like the last 3 games had us playing better football overall for 1/2 or more of each game. I tip my cap to Chesney when it comes to the adjustments they've made to turn the tables in each and also tip my cap to their players who stepped in key moments of each game (the freshman blocking the punt and grabbing it for a TD when we were rolling early that helped turn things around). I think we're pretty close but HC has earned the title of definitive best team in the league, no doubt.

This season's schedule scares me with how tough our OOC is. Nebraska of all places!!! Holy crap. But then we follow it up with Monmouth, Florida Atlantic (another FBS) and then Stony Brook! We may be a VERY good team this year who starts out 0-4! Will we recover from a possible slow start? Not sure. Scary stuff for me as I remember starting the Moorhead era out against Slipper Rock and there was always an early season tune-up game or two in there. I like aggressive scheduling but seriously concerned that this may be over doing it.

In terms of the league, I feel like the needle is pointing up on HC, Fordham, Bucknell and possibly Lafayette although maybe LC is more neutral or unknown. Needle pointing down at Lehigh and Colgate and who knows at Gtown. I think that's just reiterating your rankings, though.

Last point - the biggest unknown heading into this year is what the impact of the easy transfer market will be - both for PL schools who may lose players to kids who want a more big time experience as well as having our schools possibly be the recipient of P5/FBS transfers down? It's so easy for kids to transfer that there is no way we'll be immune to the free agency like moves taking place in the rest of college football. Penn State is a good example as a school who has a clear #1 at QB and can't find a good transfer to compete for the back up job. They've whiffed on the kid from LSU who ended up at Auburn, for example. It's tough to convince a kid who got playing time at a school like LSU to come to Penn State for a chance to be the back up there but that may be a dream scenario for an FCS All American type to take the leap and enjoy a year of football at that level imo. Surprised that hasn't happened all over the place, including the PL

[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham will give us a run for our money this year. Remember we play them in the Bronx this fall.

[Sader87]

Actually, Holy Cross's greatest success came AFTER they joined the Colonial/Patriot League; 1986-91.

The Crusaders need to hit their home run this year. You, I and everyone knows the clock is now ticking on Chesney's stay in Worcester. I think he has the team this year to actually make waves nationally and perhaps win a playoff game or two.

A serious issue regarding the PL are the dumpster fires that the two most successful programs have become; Colgate and Lehigh. Both are in a bad spot right now with little hope for immediate success. I give Colgate a little bit of a silver lining since they have an unknown at coach. Perhaps, ridding themselves of Hunt (good but not great) will actually result in a more stable, consistent program again. Lehigh isn't going anywhere until Sterrett realizes the Gilmore hire was disaster. I think this will be the worst Lehigh team in 40+ years; no OL, no QB, a below average coaching staff. They're current losing streak (7 games) will hit 10+ games...

1. Holy Cross - Best, most well prepared team in the league; not close
2. Fordham - They might have more talent than HC but can they avoid crucial mistakes? A fringe playoff team
3. Bucknell - The offense still needs to find their way under Cech
4. Lafayette - Showed some promise during the spring. Garrett has Gilmore's number...
5. Colgate - A lot of questions but at least there's some intrigue with a new coach...
6. Lehigh - Serious issues on offense and at head coach....
7. Georgetown - Honestly, I have no idea? They could be truly awful or they might completely shock the world.....

True but most of those HC teams were all or nearly all full scholarship teams....HC football severely lost its way during the next 20 or so years of non-scholarship football.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette would be poised to make noise in the table but we have no QB heading into the season and Garrett has shown questionable decisions managing the offense during his tenure. If we had _______ who transferred to SHSU, I think we would be up there with HC.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Lafayette would be poised to make noise in the table but we have no QB heading into the season and Garrett has shown questionable decisions managing the offense during his tenure. If we had _______ who transferred to SHSU, I think we would be up there with HC.

Eric Shmid still has one more year left (or 2 with this COVID rule) at Sam Houston State. I imagine Shoemaker will compete for the job starting Fall 2022. My guess is he would look to transfer again if that isn't the case.

Lafayette football could be defined by a Most Interesting Man Dos Equis commercial:

"We don't always compete for the Patriot League Football Championship, but when we do, we make sure we do so after going 0-5 out of conference".

[Pard4Life]

Eric Shmid still has one more year left (or 2 with this COVID rule) at Sam Houston State. I imagine Shoemaker will compete for the job starting Fall 2022. My guess is he would look to transfer again if that isn't the case.

Lafayette football could be defined by a Most Interesting Man Dos Equis commercial:

"We don't always compete for the Patriot League Football Championship, but when we do, we make sure we do so after going 0-5 out of conference".

Yeah pretty much.

S_____r is odd... it seems like he never wanted to be at Lafayette, but excelled anyway. Left when he had the chance, but minimal window to play in Texas.

[Go Green]

Other than telling Holy Cross to keep the title for another season, what does 2021 foretell for the Patriot League?

If Holy Cross knocks off UConn, that would go a long way towards re-charging PL pride.

[Franks Tanks]

Basically, HC is once again becoming the program it was before joining a non-scholly PL. Sucks for the other schools in the PL but it is what it is.

Dude, get a grip. The Holy Cross team of the last 2 years is probably not even in the top 50 of best PL football teams. You guys are the only school in the league at the moment that has a semblance of having your crap together, but it’s still a best of the worst situation in Worcester.

[Pard4Life]

Yes the PL is the worst it has ever been. It's a market problem. Probably discussed before given the 1000x post rambling threads but 1) Scholarship football in the NEC 2) More stringent academic requirements for scholarships. Both issues are interwoven.

1 - pool of teams expanded in the Northeast; schools like Albany and Monmouth were non-factors around 2000; once they started to establish themselves, the tide turned for the PL
2 - when you have tighter requirements, some students will not be eligible; why should I meet these high hurdles when I can get a free ride to Monmouth or Albany?

If you look at the timeline when the PL started sucking en masse (maybe 2013?), you will see these issues clearly overlap.

Ironically, Ivy aid policies are not much of an issue. As Tavani long said, 'I never won a head-to-head recruiting battle with an Ivy' ... I think he was exaggerating (and I bet Lehigh and Colgate fared better), but we started to win some of these students with scholarships.

We are half a victim of our own policies.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Yes the PL is the worst it has ever been. It's a market problem. Probably discussed before given the 1000x post rambling threads but 1) Scholarship football in the NEC 2) More stringent academic requirements for scholarships. Both issues are interwoven.

1 - pool of teams expanded in the Northeast; schools like Albany and Monmouth were non-factors around 2000; once they started to establish themselves, the tide turned for the PL
2 - when you have tighter requirements, some students will not be eligible; why should I meet these high hurdles when I can get a free ride to Monmouth or Albany?

If you look at the timeline when the PL started sucking en masse (maybe 2013?), you will see these issues clearly overlap.

Ironically, Ivy aid policies are not much of an issue. As Tavani long said, 'I never won a head-to-head recruiting battle with an Ivy' ... I think he was exaggerating (and I bet Lehigh and Colgate fared better), but we started to win some of these students with scholarships.

We are half a victim of our own policies.

Great post. 2013 was definitely right around the time that the league really dropped off as a whole. What's funny is that around that time Fordham was the only team in the PL fully vested with scholarships and they were head-and-shoulders above the league, winning FBS games and advancing in the playoffs. I remember thinking that the level of play we saw from those Fordham teams from 2012-2014 would become the norm.

It's also a bit telling that nine years into scholarships the Patriot League has perhaps never been further behind the Ivy League as a whole, both talent and performance-wise.

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot League has had its share of tactical blunders (ignoring the rise of the NEC, expanding to non-football schools like American, Loyola, and Boston U, not enforcing minimum competitive standards on Georgetown, etc.) but its biggest strategic mistake was the framing of scholarships.

At its core, an athletic scholarship is a grant in aid for demonstrated excellence in a sport, which tends to skew to poorer applicants and/or those to whom they may not be admitted otherwise without the "tip" on the admissions scales. They do not have to be a scourge of academia if the scholarship provides the ability for the student to complete his degree. Through the late 1970's, Northeastern football didn't need scholarships to be competitive--only a handful of schools even offered them in full (Boston College, Colgate, Holy Cross, Penn State, Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, Villanova) and the others could reasonably compete as independents against either the Ivy or Yankee schools. The decline of Ivy football, the rise of the Yankee/A-10, and the significant distancing of I-A from I-AA programs led the Colonial/PL a question: who do they compete with? They chose the Ivy financial aid model and soon became non-competitive with other I-AA schools in the Northeast. By focusing nearly all its non-league schedule on the Ivies (and ignoring the NEC and A-10 schools), the PL could be competitive with the Ivy, but not much outside it.

The 2012 scholarship decision was in haste, not in strategy. Fordham had been gaming the AI with its lower SAT ranges and de facto added scholarships unilaterally by 2011. Colgate's move on scholarships was not far behind. Instead of seeing scholarships as a bridge to competitiveness, the PL presidents simply repositioned its financial aid awards as scholarships. It didn't increase the supply of available talent for admission, and may have tightened it as SAT scores were recentered upward. Meanwhile, the NEC picked off the low hanging fruit that were in the PL low bands and the Ivies adjusted their aid formula to pick off the recruits at the top, and both conferences are stronger as a result. The Patriot is status quo, and by results, noticeably weaker.

Thus, with the exception of qualifying for body-bag games against FBS schools, the six PL scholarship schools spend more and more to be less and less competitive. PL-capable recruits at the 1100-1200 SAT range simply head to the academic CAA schools and outliers like Monmouth, get a free education, and compete in the playoffs. Upper band kids go to the Ivy every time--a free ride at Penn or Dartmouth still beats a free ride anywhere in the PL. It's one reason why 0-scholarship Georgetown aren't going after Eastern kids anymore. A quarter century ago, 50 kids on the Georgetown football roster were from high schools in either New York or New Jersey. In 2019, just seven. Why? In part, Georgetown can't match free rides to an Ivy prospect and probably loses regularly to Lehigh and Colgate on the margin, too. It must go outside the area to attract kids in Texas and Ohio and Oregon. But the point remains--why should any 0-scholarship team ever be competitive on the field with a 60-scholarship team? Except if the 60 scholarship teams aren't much different in terms of talent.

The Patriot League won't improve without a more realistic scholarship policy. An open scholarship policy expects too much out of the byzantine PL presidents--not that Bucknell is going to be trolling the juco ranks, but something is better than nothing--make it top 25% of one's HS class. Stop worrying about what the Ivy League thinks. Right now, the number of kids with the SAT ranges the PL is expecting ranges from 4% of high school seniors even eligible to be recruited to football at Georgetown to probably 10-15% that Fordham can legitimately recruit under the PL rules. That kid in the top quartile not going to Lehigh or Holy Cross is getting into Villanova, Duquesne, Richmond, W&M, etc. and the results are evident on the field of play.

Otherwise, expect continued sub-500 seasons for the league champion and continued disinterest from the fan bases that this football is even worth watching.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross has recruited very well under Chesney. I understand that the PL makes recruiting difficult but it can be done. Having the facilities and coach that HC does make it easier than the other PL schools but then the question becomes: "how invested in D1 football are you really?" Holy Cross has put a lot of effort into reviving its football program, there's no stopping the other PL schools from doing the same.

[Doc QB]

Meanwhile, the NEC picked off the low hanging fruit that were in the PL low bands and the Ivies adjusted their aid formula to pick off the recruits at the top, and both conferences are stronger as a result. The Patriot is status quo, and by results, noticeably weaker.

Yes. Monmouth, Albany, and Stony Brook have passed the PL by with new stadiums, new conference affiliations, better product. And I would also argue, it also has to be due in large part, the coaches. We have an abundance of PL lifers, and assistants who are maybe not as talented as in years past. Younger assistants keeping the programs progressing, then moving up on staff or on to better programs in CAA or FBS. These lifers only know the PL talent pool, and dont recognize and land the guys who are a little better and go CAA, nor coach them up as well. JMU coaching staff looks way different than Lehigh's.

Other programs have passed us by. Coaching inertia. And DFW's quote above.

The litmus test is Chesney at HC...NOT a PL lifer, and some pretty good investments in facilities and renewed energy. Despite being atop the PL, they dont look like CAA challengers yet, but given time, he may prove my non-PL lifer theory.

[Lehigh'98]

Yes. Monmouth, Albany, and Stony Brook have passed the PL by with new stadiums, new conference affiliations, better product. And I would also argue, it also has to be due in large part, the coaches. We have an abundance of PL lifers, and assistants who are maybe not as talented as in years past. Younger assistants keeping the programs progressing, then moving up on staff or on to better programs in CAA or FBS. These lifers only know the PL talent pool, and dont recognize and land the guys who are a little better and go CAA, nor coach them up as well. JMU coaching staff looks way different than Lehigh's.

Other programs have passed us by. Coaching inertia. And DFW's quote above.

The litmus test is Chesney at HC...NOT a PL lifer, and some pretty good investments in facilities and renewed energy. Despite being atop the PL, they dont look like CAA challengers yet, but given time, he may prove my non-PL lifer theory.

How many coaches want to come to the PL with the self imposed restrictions? The league hasn't been this irrelevant on a national level in a very long time. Hope HC and Fordham surprise some this year.

[Bill]

Doc, 98, and DFW -

Agree on all accounts. It's painful...and having a child who went through the college admissions process in the last two years, also perhaps indicative of what the PL schools think they want to be as a student body in general. Other than the actual athletes and the handful of aging alumni, I'm not sure anyone actually cares if the league has success in any sport.

[Doc QB]

Doc, 98, and DFW -

Agree on all accounts. It's painful...and having a child who went through the college admissions process in the last two years, also perhaps indicative of what the PL schools think they want to be as a student body in general. Other than the actual athletes and the handful of aging alumni, I'm not sure anyone actually cares if the league has success in any sport.

And that bums me out. My dad played at Taylor Stadium in late 60's. I was one of the kids playing in the endzone at halftime at Taylor. Loved it. Grew some, team moved to Goodman, and I later played there. Now unless your are in the Big 10 around here, yes, no one cares.

[Go Green]

Other than the actual athletes and the handful of aging alumni, I'm not sure anyone actually cares if the league has success in any sport.

Seems as if PL Basketball tournament championship games are still pretty well-attended. And I don't think that it's all athletes and aging alums packing the bleachers....

[NY Crusader 2010]

Seems as if PL Basketball tournament championship games are still pretty well-attended. And I don't think that it's all athletes and aging alums packing the bleachers....

Patriot League is still more of a "football league" than a "basketball league" believe it or not. The only true basketball schools (or at least bill themselves as such -- hard to call HC a basketball school anymore with how bad we've been the last decade) in the conference are Bucknell and Holy Cross. And because of how bad they've been in the A-10 for a quarter century, most Fordham alum I am friends with are more connected to following the football program than Men's Basketball. If I had to identify the "flagship sport" at all the PL schools, including affiliates I'd say it would be the following:

Holy Cross - Men's Basketball
Boston University - Men's Ice Hockey (Hockey East)
Army - Football (FBS Independent)
Navy - Football (AAC)
Colgate - Football
Lafayette - Football; just barely ahead of Men's Basketball, mainly because of the Lehigh game
Lehigh - Football
Loyola - Men's Lacrosse
Bucknell - Men's Basketball
American - Men's Basketball
Georgetown - Men's Basketball (Big East)
Fordham - Football

[Bill]

Patriot League is still more of a "football league" than a "basketball league" believe it or not. The only true basketball schools (or at least bill themselves as such -- hard to call HC a basketball school anymore with how bad we've been the last decade) in the conference are Bucknell and Holy Cross. And because of how bad they've been in the A-10 for a quarter century, most Fordham alum I am friends with are more connected to following the football program than Men's Basketball. If I had to identify the "flagship sport" at all the PL schools, including affiliates I'd say it would be the following:

Holy Cross - Men's Basketball
Boston University - Men's Ice Hockey (Hockey East)
Army - Football (FBS Independent)
Navy - Football (AAC)
Colgate - Football
Lafayette - Football; just barely ahead of Men's Basketball, mainly because of the Lehigh game
Lehigh - Football
Loyola - Men's Lacrosse
Bucknell - Men's Basketball
American - Men's Basketball
Georgetown - Men's Basketball (Big East)
Fordham - Football

Crusader - with respect, its hard not to say Wrestling for Lehigh...significantly more success on the national scene in my opinion. I know it's hard to say a niche sport is the flagship...but in this case, I would go with wrestling!

[NY Crusader 2010]

Crusader - with respect, its hard not to say Wrestling for Lehigh...significantly more success on the national scene in my opinion. I know it's hard to say a niche sport is the flagship...but in this case, I would go with wrestling!

Wrestling is HUGE in PA and certainly a point of pride at Lehigh. It might be their best team, on a national level. But Lehigh's FCS football program is the "flagship" because its the sport that generates the most interest among students and alum and the event you would pick to schedule an alumni event around. If TPTB were forced to cut either football or wrestling at Lehigh....it wouldn't be football. American's field hockey team is usually a fringe Top 25 program but you wouldn't schedule alumni weekend around that in lieu of, say, a M/W Basketball doubleheader. Speaking of wrestling, possibly the most underrated event at Madison Square Garden every year is the NCAA Wrestling Championship.

My cousin played in the NCAA lax final four at Towson and they were obviously the most successful team on campus -- 3 time defending CAA champs his sophomore thru senior year. But he used to say they were tied for 2nd in the pecking order in the campus sports hierarchy, behind football and side-by-side with basketball.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

And that bums me out. My dad played at Taylor Stadium in late 60's. I was one of the kids playing in the endzone at halftime at Taylor. Loved it. Grew some, team moved to Goodman, and I later played there. Now unless your are in the Big 10 around here, yes, no one cares.

I'm just old enough to remember going to Taylor Stadium as a kid and the transition to Goodman Stadium. I have a deep love for Lehigh football and Lehigh University as a whole. The program and athletics in general can thrive on and off the field within the current climate/culture so long as the leadership is committed to institutional success in all their endeavors.

I'm in the process of transitioning into higher-education/college athletics on a professional level. My two main research interests are urban higher-ed institutions and the range of impact they can have on their local communities along with student-athletes and the blending of academia and athletics at Patriot League, Ivy League and NESCAC colleges and universities. Time will tell where the journey will ultimately lead but I'm hopeful it will be within the framework of PL athletics.

[DFW HOYA]

Wrestling is HUGE in PA and certainly a point of pride at Lehigh. It might be their best team, on a national level. But Lehigh's FCS football program is the "flagship" because its the sport that generates the most interest among students and alum and the event you would pick to schedule an alumni event around. If TPTB were forced to cut either football or wrestling at Lehigh....it wouldn't be football. American's field hockey team is usually a fringe Top 25 program but you wouldn't schedule alumni weekend around that in lieu of, say, a M/W Basketball doubleheader. Speaking of wrestling, possibly the most underrated event at Madison Square Garden every year is the NCAA Wrestling Championship.

Apparently, it's only been held once at MSG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Wrestling_Championships

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Crusader - with respect, its hard not to say Wrestling for Lehigh...significantly more success on the national scene in my opinion. I know it's hard to say a niche sport is the flagship...but in this case, I would go with wrestling!

While I appreciate Lehigh's history in wrestling it's a football school imo. The impact the Lehigh-Lafayette game alone has on student/alumni engagement, fundraising and overall school moral and athletic visibility is well beyond that of any wrestling match. Football also has a very good track record of success that includes a modern era national title and runner-up finish. While wrestling had plenty of casual/local support it pales in comparison to what football meant to the South Bethlehem community during the heyday of the steel industry. Football made Lehigh both relatable and likeable to those that couldn't attend the school because of academics/economics or both. It's also could be the very reason why their kid(s) did attend.

Lehigh needs to take a look at how Holy Cross is becoming "Worcester's College Team" again.....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yes. Monmouth, Albany, and Stony Brook have passed the PL by with new stadiums, new conference affiliations, better product. And I would also argue, it also has to be due in large part, the coaches. We have an abundance of PL lifers, and assistants who are maybe not as talented as in years past. Younger assistants keeping the programs progressing, then moving up on staff or on to better programs in CAA or FBS. These lifers only know the PL talent pool, and dont recognize and land the guys who are a little better and go CAA, nor coach them up as well. JMU coaching staff looks way different than Lehigh's.

Other programs have passed us by. Coaching inertia. And DFW's quote above.

The litmus test is Chesney at HC...NOT a PL lifer, and some pretty good investments in facilities and renewed energy. Despite being atop the PL, they dont look like CAA challengers yet, but given time, he may prove my non-PL lifer theory.

I've been complaining at the decline in coaching talent within the league for the last few years. It's without question a major hinderance when it comes to some of the league's programs reaching their potential. The Gilmore hire at Lehigh is and will be a disaster until his tenure comes to an end. I appreciate what Sterrett has done for Lehigh football but he butchered the Coen transition in rather epic fashion. Hopefully he realizes his time as Dean of Athletics is coming to an end and to depart while the football program (his baby) is in shambles would tear at his heart and soul.

The peak of PL coaching was in the early 2000s; Higgins/Lembo, Biddle, Gadd, Clawson, Tavani, Combs and even Bob Benson (72-64 in DC) ranged from excellent to competent....

[Fordham]

...And because of how bad they've been in the A-10 for a quarter century, most Fordham alum I am friends with are more connected to following the football program than Men's Basketball. If I had to identify the "flagship sport" at all the PL schools, including affiliates I'd say it would be the following:



You're spot on with regard to the ineptitude we've had in A10 basketball for the past 20+ years despite calling hoops our marquee sport. That said, things have done a 180 with the hiring of our new AD, Ed Kull. With a board that's finally supportive, he's been incredible and has brought us from being a D3 run dept (imo) into a truly professionally run one. His hiring of Kyle Neptune and Neptune's complete overhaul of the roster has brought talent in that we haven't seen in decades and there's an excitement around basketball that I've never seen before. I know we haven't played a game yet and we'll have to see how it goes but there's no questioning that this time it truly is different. I mention that because imo HC got the board support first which also resulted in an Athletic Dept that is as on point and professional as any I've ever seen in the PL. It's funny how that blueprint works. Institutional support produces the commitment and vision that the AD can create/implement. I don't follow PL hoops but my guess is that you'll start seeing HC improve in that sport as well.

I also agree with the PL coaching lifers comment above. Chesney breaks the mold and my guess is he will get good offers to go elsewhere following this year. Moorhead was the same way. There's your blueprint again and not sure why more don't follow it. I feel like the past two decades have shown that a good PL lifer can have your program in the mix to win PL titles pretty often but will struggle once out of conference, particularly in the playoffs. It's the young, hungry coach who wants to move up who has the chance to will his team to make an impact in the playoffs. Really, really impressed with Chesney and surprised more teams haven't gone that route. We're certainly trying to follow the Moorhead/Chesney model with Conlin. Hope we have so much success that he gets a next level job soon too. He's a great guy and I don't want see him leave but that's the path to follow for the program to have success imo.

[Bill]

Go Lehigh and Crusader,

I totally appreciate your points of view - I was looking at this another way. Football has a much larger reach regarding alumni, admissions, fund raising...I just took the word "flagship" to mean "the best". As a former student and employee at Lehigh, all of the statements about football make sense. But make no mistake, those in and around the athletes realize that the wrestlers are competing at a different level nationally. The football team would be getting ready to take on Bucknell, while the wrestlers would take on Iowa!xpeacex

[Doc QB]

The peak of PL coaching was in the early 2000s; Higgins/Lembo, Biddle, Gadd, Clawson, Tavani, Combs and even Bob Benson (72-64 in DC) ranged from excellent to competent....

What is even more important is the assistants, some of the above were position guys on PL staffs at one point. Real quality guys, climbers. My friends and I did an audit of the 90's era LU staffers and it was amazing. The guys on Duffner's last staff at HC all moved on to high levels as well. I could probably still name a bunch for the HC 91 staff and LU 90-99. Duffner, Goldman, Clyde Christiansen at HC. LU had Clawson, Jon Bonomego, Cohen (not Andy), Tony Trisciani, Pete Lembo, Drew Folmar, Kevin Higgins, Hank Small...could argue Coen , Cecchini, and Gilmore, but those two really stayed Ivy-PL but became head men. I am sure there are more, I still have it on a long text thread from my teammates early 90's era during the pandemic. Damn were we bored.

[Bill]

Doc,
And don't forget Steckel and Giunta as position guys...I'd say future careers in the SEC and NFL are impressive !!

[Sader87]

It's actually pretty amazing some of the coaching talent Carter/Duffner brought to Worcester from 1981-1991. Many of the assistants went on to FBS and NFL positions. Mike Sherman, Kevin Coyle, Clyde Christiansen, Tom Rossley and some others. Not sure how we did it, I suppose winning attracted talent and from there HC was a good launching pad up the coaching ladder.

Hopefully HC, and the PL in general, can once again attract that kind of coaching talent moving forward.

[Doc QB]

Doc,
And don't forget Steckel and Giunta as position guys...I'd say future careers in the SEC and NFL are impressive !!
Steck remains a friend...if he saw I left him out, he would run me down. Literally.
I just havent seen guys like that on LU coaching roster in awhile, and really think it matters a ton. Recruiting, game film/meeting room/gameplan, you need more than just the head man or coordinator with talent to hit another level.

[Franks Tanks]

I've been complaining at the decline in coaching talent within the league for the last few years. It's without question a major hinderance when it comes to some of the league's programs reaching their potential. The Gilmore hire at Lehigh is and will be a disaster until his tenure comes to an end. I appreciate what Sterrett has done for Lehigh football but he butchered the Coen transition in rather epic fashion. Hopefully he realizes his time as Dean of Athletics is coming to an end and to depart while the football program (his baby) is in shambles would tear at his heart and soul.

The peak of PL coaching was in the early 2000s; Higgins/Lembo, Biddle, Gadd, Clawson, Tavani, Combs and even Bob Benson (72-64 in DC) ranged from excellent to competent....

Agree, those guys were excellent coaches. Frank’s old staffs had guys like John Loose, Bob Heffner etc on staff as well. Lehigh has excellent assistants during your heyday. I think excellent head coaches attract excellent staff, and that is mostly the issue.

Much of it can be blamed on some truly baffling decisions by league AD’s on the way of hiring coaches….looking at you Joe Sterrett

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Anyone see the Hero Sports O/U win totals for PL teams?

Just an educated guess...

Holy Cross 7.5
Fordham 6.5
Bucknell 5.5
Lafayette 5.5
Colgate 4.5
Lehigh 3.5
Georgetown 2.5

[Fordham]

This would likely involve us beating all PL teams except HC along with Wagner to get to 6. Makes sense to put the line at 6.5 I guess. I really have no idea what our mindset will be if we start off 0-4, especially if they're not competitive games. Will Nebraska, Monmouth, Florida Atlantic and Stony Brook make us raise our level of play in advance of the PL skid or shatter our confidence?

[The Boogie Down]

This would likely involve us beating all PL teams except HC along with Wagner to get to 6. Makes sense to put the line at 6.5 I guess. I really have no idea what our mindset will be if we start off 0-4, especially if they're not competitive games. Will Nebraska, Monmouth, Florida Atlantic and Stony Brook make us raise our level of play in advance of the PL skid or shatter our confidence?

After those four, any/every PL game (including HC) should be a welcomed breather. "Shattered confidence" ain't gonna cut it if we're (yet again) losing to the likes of Lafayette.

[DFW HOYA]

It's likely every PL team will be under .500 outside of league play: a couple at 1-4, the rest 2-3.

[Sader87]

HC will be overall plus .500 non-league

[DFW HOYA]

HC will be overall .500 non-league

Except there are five non-league games and there's no tie in the forecast. What are your predictions for...

at Connecticut
Merrimack
at Yale
at Monmouth
Harvard

[Sader87]

HC will go at least 3-2....probably bettah

[DFW HOYA]

Lindy's pre-season picks:

1. Holy Cross
2. Fordham
3. Lafayette
4. Bucknell
5. Colgate
6. Lehigh
7. Georgetown

[Go Green]

Yowza! Colgate picked to finish last in PL preseason poll!

Patriot League Announces 2021 Football Preseason Honors - Patriot League (https://patriotleague.org/news/2021/7/27/patriot-league-announces-2021-football-preseason-honors.aspx)

For those of us who haven't been paying close attention, WTF has happened with Colgate? This is almost like Ohio State being picked last in a Big 10 preseason poll...

[DFW HOYA]

For those of us who haven't been paying close attention, WTF has happened with Colgate?

1. Lost all three games in the spring season.
2. The circumstances of Dan Hunt's release are still under lock and key.
3. A small incoming class (16)

Outside a thumping from BC, the schedule is favorable, however.

Home: Stony Brook, W&M, Lehigh, Bucknell, Fordham
Away: Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Lafayette

[ngineer]

Patriot League is still more of a "football league" than a "basketball league" believe it or not. The only true basketball schools (or at least bill themselves as such -- hard to call HC a basketball school anymore with how bad we've been the last decade) in the conference are Bucknell and Holy Cross. And because of how bad they've been in the A-10 for a quarter century, most Fordham alum I am friends with are more connected to following the football program than Men's Basketball. If I had to identify the "flagship sport" at all the PL schools, including affiliates I'd say it would be the following:

Holy Cross - Men's Basketball
Boston University - Men's Ice Hockey (Hockey East)
Army - Football (FBS Independent)
Navy - Football (AAC)
Colgate - Football
Lafayette - Football; just barely ahead of Men's Basketball, mainly because of the Lehigh game
Lehigh - Wrestling; Football, Lacrosse (on the rise)
Loyola - Men's Lacrosse
Bucknell - Men's Basketball
American - Men's Basketball
Georgetown - Men's Basketball (Big East)
Fordham - Football


Fixed it! xsmiley_wix

[ngineer]

Crusader - with respect, its hard not to say Wrestling for Lehigh...significantly more success on the national scene in my opinion. I know it's hard to say a niche sport is the flagship...but in this case, I would go with wrestling!

Absolutely. If you travel around and mention Lehigh in an athletic context, more people will say "wrestling" than football or any other. A perennial top 10-15 national team, and the only private school consistently among the the top 10-15. (the great majority of Cornell's wrestlers are admitted through the state university "side" of the school)

[Son of Eli]

Yowza! Colgate picked to finish last in PL preseason poll!

Patriot League Announces 2021 Football Preseason Honors - Patriot League (https://patriotleague.org/news/2021/7/27/patriot-league-announces-2021-football-preseason-honors.aspx)

For those of us who haven't been paying close attention, WTF has happened with Colgate? This is almost like Ohio State being picked last in a Big 10 preseason poll...

They lost their excellent AD, Vicki Chun, who went to Yale.

[NY Crusader 2010]

HC will go at least 3-2....probably bettah

I think 2-3 is the better bet. In order to get to 2-3, we will need to beat either Harvard, Yale, Monmouth or UCONN (assuming the W over Merrimack here even though that game may not be a walk thru).

Of that group, Harvard at home seems to be the most likely W. To get to 3-2, we'll need to beat Yale or UCONN on the road. If the pre-season polls are accurate, it looks like Monmouth is the best team on the schedule. And they seem to have our number. They're also like 11-1 against the PL the last 5 years. So I'd pencil in MU is the most likely loss.

[NY Crusader 2010]

1. Lost all three games in the spring season.
2. The circumstances of Dan Hunt's release are still under lock and key.
3. A small incoming class (16)

Outside a thumping from BC, the schedule is favorable, however.

Home: Stony Brook, W&M, Lehigh, Bucknell, Fordham
Away: Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Lafayette

I think they get thumped in these three games, even though they're at home.

[Libertine]

Colgate has officially pulled the interim tag off of Stan Dakosty. He's the permanent HC now.

https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2021/08/colgate-names-stan-dakosty-permanent-football-coach.html

[IslandPard]

https://goleopards.com/news/2021/8/4/football-leopards-add-transfers-from-va-tech-washington-state-and-maine.aspx

3 Transfers. None seem to be super special and might have been PWOs at their previous schools. The added depth at QB is welcome sight considering our starter could be a freshman.

[Anthony215]

https://goleopards.com/news/2021/8/4/football-leopards-add-transfers-from-va-tech-washington-state-and-maine.aspx

3 Transfers. None seem to be super special and might have been PWOs at their previous schools. The added depth at QB is welcome sight considering our starter could be a freshman.

The QB from WSU is originally from the Philly area, he's pretty damn good. Got a PWO at Washington State and ran with the opportunity rather than play at a G5 or FCS school, can't knock him for trying to hang with the big dawgs. He should instantly compete for the starting gig. As for Carl Smith I thought coming out of WC he was a better DB prospect than WR, he just didn't fit in well at VT as a WR and probably didn't want to convert to DB where I think it's more natural for him to play at a high level. He has great feet work and field awareness. If he moved to the secondary I'd say he'd be a day 1 starter. Maybe in Lafayette's offense he can be a player moved all around and get involved that way to get early PT.

[caribbeanhen]

They lost their excellent AD, Vicki Chun, who went to Yale.

Did she know Yale was in New Haven? Dreary vibe

[Pards Rule]

John Fry of Drexel (Lafayette 1982) would be a great source LUTempleOwl

[Pards Rule]

Agree, those guys were excellent coaches. Frank’s old staffs had guys like John Loose, Bob Heffner etc on staff as well. Lehigh has excellent assistants during your heyday. I think excellent head coaches attract excellent staff, and that is mostly the issue.

Much of it can be blamed on some truly baffling decisions by league AD’s on the way of hiring coaches….looking at you Joe Sterrett

FT, so true! Loved Heffner and Loose! You know Loose is now Asst HC at Army

[TheValleyRaider]

Emerging from summer hibernation as the season draws nearer.

Curious to see how Dakosty does. I get the desire to keep things in the family, but wouldn't have minded someone with a few more experiences outside Colgate. I have no new or actual information about what happened to Hunt, and not really interested in speculating.

As far as our chances for 2021, it was hard to be optimistic watching what happened in the spring. That was a strange season, but it did not create any good feeling after 2019's unimpressive showing. The schedule doesn't help either, but we want to be playing tough games.

It is interesting to think about where this all fits in the school's larger conception of its athletics program. The administration is squarely behind a strong department, though our two marquee sports (football and men's hockey) have struggled in recent years. Football was volatile under Hunt, and now has a first-time HC, while hockey has the same coach for 25+ years (he's had some very good season, but definitely struggled in the last 5-6 years). The banner has been carried by men's basketball (unusual for Colgate!), women's hockey, and sports like soccer, which is all great, but not theoretically the ones we prioritize.

To beat the deadest of horses and look at the League's bigger picture, obviously it remains less than good. I can't say I expect much improvement in the out-of-conference record this year. HC has a shot at 3-2, maybe Bucknell?, but that's really it.

We'll have plenty of time to wring hands further this fall, at least with real games to follow this year.

[Tribe4SF]

Emerging from summer hibernation as the season draws nearer.

Curious to see how Dakosty does. I get the desire to keep things in the family, but wouldn't have minded someone with a few more experiences outside Colgate. I have no new or actual information about what happened to Hunt, and not really interested in speculating.

As far as our chances for 2021, it was hard to be optimistic watching what happened in the spring. That was a strange season, but it did not create any good feeling after 2019's unimpressive showing. The schedule doesn't help either, but we want to be playing tough games.

It is interesting to think about where this all fits in the school's larger conception of its athletics program. The administration is squarely behind a strong department, though our two marquee sports (football and men's hockey) have struggled in recent years. Football was volatile under Hunt, and now has a first-time HC, while hockey has the same coach for 25+ years (he's had some very good season, but definitely struggled in the last 5-6 years). The banner has been carried by men's basketball (unusual for Colgate!), women's hockey, and sports like soccer, which is all great, but not theoretically the ones we prioritize.

To beat the deadest of horses and look at the League's bigger picture, obviously it remains less than good. I can't say I expect much improvement in the out-of-conference record this year. HC has a shot at 3-2, maybe Bucknell?, but that's really it.

We'll have plenty of time to wring hands further this fall, at least with real games to follow this year.

Looking forward to our 9/18 game in Hamilton. Been on the Colgate board and there's not much activity there. Folks seem pretty pessimistic. Planning a trip to play you guys is not easy! Flights are expensive and we have to stay in Syracuse.

[TheValleyRaider]

Looking forward to our 9/18 game in Hamilton. Been on the Colgate board and there's not much activity there. Folks seem pretty pessimistic. Planning a trip to play you guys is not easy! Flights are expensive and we have to stay in Syracuse.

Yeah, not a lot of optimism, but who knows? You can definitely get hotels closer to Hamilton than Syracuse, though not sure about costs at this point. Enjoy the scenery, and if you're looking for other things to do that weekend, Cooperstown is just an hour away.

[Tribe4SF]

Yeah, not a lot of optimism, but who knows? You can definitely get hotels closer to Hamilton than Syracuse, though not sure about costs at this point. Enjoy the scenery, and if you're looking for other things to do that weekend, Cooperstown is just an hour away.

Only hotel within 20 miles of Hamilton is the Hampton Inn in Cazenovia at $250/night and very little around it and no bar in the hotel. We have a bunch of us traveling and best option was to stay by Syracuse airport and make the hour drive to tailgate and for the game. I've got a 12-passenger van rented.

[DFW HOYA]

Only hotel within 20 miles of Hamilton is the Hampton Inn in Cazenovia at $250/night and very little around it and no bar in the hotel. We have a bunch of us traveling and best option was to stay by Syracuse airport and make the hour drive to tailgate and for the game. I've got a 12-passenger van rented.

You could also stay in Oneonta. About 45 minutes through the woods.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You could also stay in Oneonta. About 45 minutes through the woods.

Binghamton would be another reasonable spot to stay.

[Pards Rule]

Only hotel within 20 miles of Hamilton is the Hampton Inn in Cazenovia at $250/night and very little around it and no bar in the hotel. We have a bunch of us traveling and best option was to stay by Syracuse airport and make the hour drive to tailgate and for the game. I've got a 12-passenger van rented.
Binghamton exactly an hour by car to Hamilton. Done it a good dozen times. TRIBE watch yourself thru small towns like Oxford NY (cost me $300!) as speed limits are 25 and dont go 45 "out of town" even if you think you are out of town (like I did) until you SEE sign for 45. Oxford PD writing me ticket in dark Nov. 8, 2014 as I had my headlights on a 45 sign ahead.

[Tribe4SF]

Binghamton exactly an hour by car to Hamilton. Done it a good dozen times. TRIBE watch yourself thru small towns like Oxford NY (cost me $300!) as speed limits are 25 and dont go 45 "out of town" even if you think you are out of town (like I did) until you SEE sign for 45. Oxford PD writing me ticket in dark Nov. 8, 2014 as I had my headlights on a 45 sign ahead.

Ouch! I'll be careful. 38 miles from our hotel to Hamilton.

[RichH2]

Lots of RL issues. Cross and not much else seems the consensus. Great for the Purple. Not much optimism or spirit elsewhere.
Not quite as doomsday as owl about Lehigh or the coaches. Not optimistic either. Basically a team of fr and soph players. Unsure OL. Probable QB has an arm but showed little ability to run the O. Not fair given the chaos of last year. But thats what we got. D will be good. Solid on all levels.WR,RB,TE all talented.
OC has shown no inclination to adapt his O or play calls to his talent. Not a formula for an O that can score. We havent had one the last few years.

[Fordham]

Lots of RL issues. Cross and not much else seems the consensus. Great for the Purple. Not much optimism or spirit elsewhere.
Not quite as doomsday as owl about Lehigh or the coaches. Not optimistic either. Basically a team of fr and soph players. Unsure OL. Probable QB has an arm but showed little ability to run the O. Not fair given the chaos of last year. But thats what we got. D will be good. Solid on all levels.WR,RB,TE all talented.
OC has shown no inclination to adapt his O or play calls to his talent. Not a formula for an O that can score. We haven't had one the last few years.
Rams are optimistically spirited, Rich. I hope our brutal 4 game opener doesn't shatter us but if we can weather the storm we will be in the PL mix. We've been competitive with HC the last two years (hats off to their coaching!) and return more talent than we've seen since the Moorhead years.

Can't wait to see us run on the field in Lincoln!

[The Boogie Down]

Cross and not much else seems the consensus. Great for the Purple. Not much optimism or spirit elsewhere.


Wait, what? Lots of optimism and spirit on Rose Hill!

This link was posted earlier on the thread (https://patriotleague.org/news/2021/7/27/patriot-league-announces-2021-football-preseason-honors.aspx) but not sure if anyone really-really gave it a looksy. Yes, Holy Cross was predicted to come in first but look at the preseason All-League team.

7 of the 13 guys on the offensive team are Rams. Only 2 are Crusaders.
3 of the 12 guys on the defensive team are Rams. 3 are Crusaders.

Included in Fordham's 10 to make preseason All-League (compared to the 5 position players from Holy Cross) is the preseason Offense POY and preseason defense POY. So yeah, there is indeed a lot else out there and Fordham is pretty spirited to get things started. Well, maybe not the first four games, but after that it's all systems go!

[crusader11]

Fordham is just as good as HC, IMO. Outplayed us in the spring and I think the game in the Bronx is a coin flip this season.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Fordham is just as good as HC, IMO. Outplayed us in the spring and I think the game in the Bronx is a coin flip this season.

Not to mention, Fordham has blown double digit leads against Holy Cross each of the past two seasons. There will be plenty of bulletin board material for the Rams. Holy Cross is always a big draw at Jack Coffey, assuming decent weather I anticipate the place will be absolutely rocking. A sellout possible if both teams enter the game undefeated in PL play -- and as long as Fordham doesn't implement COVID crowd restrictions for outdoor events.

[caribbeanhen]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipODrSjQ7KJV6fOxOa_jcStGkF9FUnUkZrgmRLY3=s1270-w750-h1270

Not to mention Cuchifritos is right across the street almost. Haha a must

[The Boogie Down]

@TheChickenMan: Not ready to predict a Fordham football win over Holy Cross this year but, between mofongos on Webster Avenue or pasta dishes on Arthur Avenue, can def. say Fordham will remain undefeated against Holy Cross (or the rest of the PL) when it comes to post-game dinners!

[Lehigh Engineer]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipODrSjQ7KJV6fOxOa_jcStGkF9FUnUkZrgmRLY3=s1270-w750-h1270

Not to mention Cuchifritos is right across the street almost. Haha a must


When did Fordham open up a campus in Guadalajara?

[caribbeanhen]

When did Fordham open up a campus in Guadalajara?

When is the last time you’ve been to the Bronx?

That’s a Puerto Rican joint by the way

[NY Crusader 2010]

@TheChickenMan: Not ready to predict a Fordham football win over Holy Cross this year but, between mofongos on Webster Avenue or pasta dishes on Arthur Avenue, can def. say Fordham will remain undefeated against Holy Cross (or the rest of the PL) when it comes to post-game dinners!

My personal favorite for dinner: Roberto's, followed by Michelangelo's. One of my friends just had his wedding reception at Michelangelo's.
Howl At the Moon: great bar that manages to both do the "college thing" and be a solid neighborhood spot as well.

A new gourmet pizza place opened up on Crescent and Arthur called No Fork -- I still have to try it out. As did a new Albanian stuffed bread place called Dea.

Arthur have believe it or not was the rare example of a cluster of small businesses in NYC that thrived during the pandemic. Partially because the zoo remained an activity that you were "allowed to do" since its outdoors. And then I think because in this area the cuisine trumps the atmosphere (not that the atmosphere is bad), you had a lot of stir-crazy people that drove from farther away in the metro area to pick up food to go.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I've been telling a former Fordham player and his father all summer the Rams would keep it respectable (51-27/48-27 etc) against Nebraska to start the year. Could they seriously make the Huskers sweat in Lincoln? The pressure being applied to Frost by "Big Red Nation" right now is insufferable. The Huskers are both fundamentally and athletically deficient; not a good combo....

[DFW HOYA]

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1431981735596765191

[NY Crusader 2010]

I've been telling a former Fordham player and his father all summer the Rams would keep it respectable (51-27/48-27 etc) against Nebraska to start the year. Could they seriously make the Huskers sweat in Lincoln? The pressure being applied to Frost by "Big Red Nation" right now is insufferable. The Huskers are both fundamentally and athletically deficient; not a good combo....

About 10 years ago, McNeese State took Nebraska to overtime in Lincoln and lost by a TD IIRC. Troy also beat them up there more recently than that so there is at least some limited history of FCS or low-end G5 schools making noise at Nebraska. I still think the Huskers win this one by about 4 scores. So "respectable" in the sense that Holy Cross at SDSU was respectable.

[NY Crusader 2010]

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1431981735596765191

This is surprising IMO -- I would've thought that these big fan bases would be frothing at the opportunity to get to a game and pack a stadium after 21 months. I get Nebraska isn't so good right now but they've had a couple of down stretches between the end of the Osborne era and now. And the demographics that would make up the Husker fan base don't strike me as the types of people that would allow fear of the virus to prevent them spending the day in a full stadium. But maybe that's what it is -- if enough people aren't comfortable enough yet to go to a major public event, that could be the difference between selling out and not.

[Tribe4SF]

This is surprising IMO -- I would've thought that these big fan bases would be frothing at the opportunity to get to a game and pack a stadium after 21 months. I get Nebraska isn't so good right now but they've had a couple of down stretches between the end of the Osborne era and now. And the demographics that would make up the Husker fan base don't strike me as the types of people that would allow fear of the virus to prevent them spending the day in a full stadium. But maybe that's what it is -- if enough people aren't comfortable enough yet to go to a major public event, that could be the difference between selling out and not.

It's only been 9 months since their last home game so the memory of a not-so-great team is probably fresh.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

About 10 years ago, McNeese State took Nebraska to overtime in Lincoln and lost by a TD IIRC. Troy also beat them up there more recently than that so there is at least some limited history of FCS or low-end G5 schools making noise at Nebraska. I still think the Huskers win this one by about 4 scores. So "respectable" in the sense that Holy Cross at SDSU was respectable.

I really believe Fordham has a chance to keep this interesting into the second half so long as they avoid turnovers/special team mistakes. They'll have the best QB on the field and arguably the best defensive player in Greenhagen (LB). Their front seven on defense must survive in order to seriously challenge.

When it comes to PL vs P5 (honestly most of FBS) if you can keep it under 4 TDs that's "respectable". At this point Nebraska is honestly one of the worst 15-20 P5 programs which is shocking to say. As a "90's Kid", I watched Nebraska and Florida State dominate the decade....

[Fordham]

I think we would have had a much better chance at being competitive if Nebraska had pulled off the win on Saturday. We are now fully in their focus and in the 'must win big' category.

TU Owl, as rough as they played I did watch the game and the level of athlete is just different. Play on the lines will be VERY tough for us as a PL squad v a legit B10 one. Also, their QB may not be playing well in B10 play but he is a tremendous athlete. We'll have a ton of trouble containing him. I'm headed out there since it's historic for the program but the expectation that this will even be a reasonably competitive game is farfetched imo.

[MR. CHICKEN]

32064


.......TIME TA RENAME DUH PATRIOT...........AH'D SUGGEST...........DAUGHTERS UH 'MERICAN REVOLUTION..................................brawk!

[Sader87]

HC AD to take the AD job at Creighton. There has been some scuttlebutt that he and Chesney often didn't see eye to eye.

Marcus Blossom is a "basketball guy" as a player and as an administrator, so taking a job at a school in a league we should have joined in 1979 was a no-brainer I suppose.

Time to bring back Gordie to the Hill as AD.