Have Any Schools Ever Went From FBS to FCS?

[Zoo]

Have any schools from FBS ever moved back down to FCS?

Didn't the Ivy League get moved to FCS?

[MplsBison]

1973 was the first season that I-A and I-AA existed. I believe you had to be in one of those subdivisions by the 73 season.


Don't think any team has gone from I-A to I-AA or from FBS to FCS.

[Lionsrking]

1973 was the first season that I-A and I-AA existed. I believe you had to be in one of those subdivisions by the 73 season.


Don't think any team has gone from I-A to I-AA or from FBS to FCS.

Actually it was 1978 when the Division I separated into I-A and I-AA. 1973 was the year the NCAA started classifying schools by divisions (I, II, and III) instead University division and College divisioin.

[RaiderInTheZone]

1973 was the first season that I-A and I-AA existed. I believe you had to be in one of those subdivisions by the 73 season.


Don't think any team has gone from I-A to I-AA or from FBS to FCS.

Actually, 1978 was the first year Division I was split into 1-A and 1-AA. There have been no schools to drop from 1-A down to 1-AA since the institution of the Bowl Championship Series in 1998 with a series of mandates passed down by the NCAA making it even harder to become 1-A.

HOWEVER, there have been some in the years prior in the Division 1 split's infancy where schools were 1-A and dropped down to 1-AA, but eventually went back to 1-A and never looked back.

North Texas chose to remain 1-A during the split, dropped back down to 1-AA three years later, and then went back to 1-A in 1994 and has been there ever since.

Arkansas State chose to remain 1-A during the split. They dropped down 1-AA in the same year North Texas did, but they went back to 1-A in 1992 and have been there ever since.

There was mention of the schools in the Ivy League--Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton, Brown, Pennsylvania, and Columbia--by the original poster. He is correct. The entire league was 1-A for the first three years. They all chose to drop down to 1-AA. From what I was told it had to do with their desire to put more emphasis on academics as opposed to athletics and they felt that 1-A was attempting to commercialize athletics at any cost including putting academic integrity on the line. You will notice that the Ivy League is the only conference in 1-AA that does not have a place in the 1-AA playoffs. That league chooses not to particpate in the 1-AA playoffs for pure academic reasons.

[dbackjon]

Blue Raider - The SWAC also chooses not to take place in the FCS playoffs.

[JohnStOnge]

North Texas chose to remain 1-A during the split, dropped back down to 1-AA three years later, and then went back to 1-A in 1994 and has been there ever since.

Arkansas State chose to remain 1-A during the split. They dropped down 1-AA in the same year North Texas did, but they went back to 1-A in 1992 and have been there ever since..

McNeese dropped from I-A to I-AA in 1981 by choice and has remained there. My understanding is that the old D-I then I-A Southland... which included McNeese as well as Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Southwestern Louisiana (now Louisiana Lafayette), Texas at Arlington and Lamar...ran into some new rules that went into effect about that time. Only two Southland schools, McNeese and Southwestern Louisiana, met the attendance requirements. McNeese...which won more conference championships (3) than any other program in the league and gone to three Independence Bowls during the Cowboys' 1975 - 1981 tenure as a I then I-A program, chose to move to I-AA in order to stick with the Southland. Southwestern Louisiana opted to stay I-A as an independent.

So McNeese, which had a 51 -21 -2 record as a I then I-A, including 28 - 6 - 1 and two bowl appearances in its last three years in I-A, did opt to move to I-AA and stay there.

[grayghost06]

To further elaborate on what Raider has posted, the Southern Conference also hung on for 3 more years as a IA conference along with former SoCo mates William & Mary and Richmond. Independents Villanova, Holy Cross and Colgate also hung on as IA though '81 ( Villanova dropped football prior to the '81 season even though they finished 6-5 in 1980)...Does anyone on the board know whether these schools that hung on were "forced " to the lower classification or did they do it on their own. Obviously they resisted the initial re-classification, but 3 years later all had joined the ranks of IAA football.

[RaiderInTheZone]

To further elaborate on what Raider has posted, the Southern Conference also hung on for 3 more years as a IA conference along with former SoCo mates William & Mary and Richmond. Independents Villanova, Holy Cross and Colgate also hung on as IA though '81 ( Villanova dropped football prior to the '81 season even though they finished 6-5 in 1980)...Does anyone on the board know whether these schools that hung on were "forced " to the lower classification or did they do it on their own. Obviously they resisted the initial re-classification, but 3 years later all had joined the ranks of IAA football.

As JohnStOnge said, there were requirements put in place around 1981 to remain 1-A that many schools could not meet. There were a few smaller in name schools that could meet them and did remain 1-A such as Louisiana, San Jose State, and New Mexico State. Others could not meet the requirements and chose to step down.

[Go...gate]

To further elaborate on what Raider has posted, the Southern Conference also hung on for 3 more years as a IA conference along with former SoCo mates William & Mary and Richmond. Independents Villanova, Holy Cross and Colgate also hung on as IA though '81 ( Villanova dropped football prior to the '81 season even though they finished 6-5 in 1980)...Does anyone on the board know whether these schools that hung on were "forced " to the lower classification or did they do it on their own. Obviously they resisted the initial re-classification, but 3 years later all had joined the ranks of IAA football.

They were forced due to criteria such as stadium size and average attendance. It was a very bitter pill for Colgate and Holy Cross to swallow because they had strong programs with aggressive scheduling. In Colgate's case the attendance requirement was a sham, because they routinely played only 2-3 home games a year and scheduled Army, Penn State, Syracuse, Temple, Rutgers and other majors on the road.

[catdaddy2402]

Marshall dropped down from I-A to I-AA in 1982, then returned to I-A in 1997.

Northern Illinois, Ball State, Bowling Green,Kent St, Miami-Oh, Ohio, and Eastern Michigan dropped back to I-AA in 1982, but returned to I-A in 1983.

[JohnStOnge]

There were a few smaller in name schools that could meet them and did remain 1-A such as Louisiana

Man, don't do that. It's not the University of Louisiana. It's the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. As part of the agreement to change its name, the State specifically prohibited that school from trying to put itself above any other school that chose to use the "University of Louisiana at (insert city name)" designation and to promoting itself as the "Unversity of Louisiana." Louisiana-Lafayette is no more "Louisiana" than "Louisiana Monroe" is. In fact, it's no more "the" University of Louisiana than any other school in the University of Louisiana system is.

Louisiana, as a whole, does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana. Please call it by its proper name: The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Don't feed that school community's pathological megalomania.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Man, don't do that. It's not the University of Louisiana. It's the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. As part of the agreement to change its name, the State specifically prohibited that school from trying to put itself above any other school that chose to use the "University of Louisiana at (insert city name)" designation from trying to promote itself as the "Unversity of Louisiana." Louisiana-Lafayette is no more "Louisiana" than "Louisiana Monroe" is. In fact, it's no more "the" University of Louisiana than any other school in the University of Louisiana system is.

Louisiana, as a whole, does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana. Please call it by its proper name: The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Don't feed that school community's pathological megalomania.

Yeah, but they have a similar agreement in the University of Nevada school system but you have Nevada and UNLV when it's supposed to be Nevada-Reno and Nevada-Las Vegas.

I will refer to the Cajuns as "Louisiana" as a personal friend to many of their fans. The Monrovians prefer the anacronym ULM just like UNLV so I refer to the Warhawks as "ULM" instead of Louisiana-Monroe. That's just me.

[MplsBison]

Louisiana, as a whole, does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana.

What you meant to say was:


LSU does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana.

[JohnStOnge]

What you meant to say was:


LSU does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana.

It's true that LSU doesn't want that. But it's also true that nobody else does either. The only people who want the school referenced that way are people associated with the school.

You may already know this but LSU is not part of the "University of Louisiana" system. Nevertheless, the only University of Louisiana entity/community that wants Louisiana at Lafayette identified as "University of Louisiana" is the Louisiana at Lafayette entity/community.

Believe me, the other "University of Louisiana" system schools and their communities do not want Louisiana at Lafayette perceived as being some kind of main campus for the system or as being at some "higher" level than the rest of them. They do not want Louisiana at Lafayette establishing itself as "University of Louisiana."

[DFW HOYA]

It's true that LSU doesn't want that. But it's also true that nobody else does either. The only people who want the school referenced that way are people associated with the school.


Sounds similar to the "Texas State-San Marcos" issue at SWT.

[aztecjim]

>> Northern Illinois, Ball State, Bowling Green,Kent St, Miami-Oh, Ohio, and Eastern Michigan dropped back to I-AA in 1982, but returned to I-A in 1983.<<

Are you sure about Miami,OH ?

Also wasn't there a rule at the time that if you did not meet the requirements to stay in I-A but were in a conference where a majority of schools did, then you were allowed to stay? I think that is why the MAC survived as a group.

Also,wasn't East Carolina I-AA for a brief time?

[MplsBison]

Sounds similar to the "Texas State-San Marcos" issue at SWT.

Right.



I don't understand the concept of a university system where there isn't a well defined flagship.


All it does is create infighting between the highest schools over spending and things like names.

[ch0306]

Actually, 1978 was the first year Division I was split into 1-A and 1-AA. There have been no schools to drop from 1-A down to 1-AA since the institution of the Bowl Championship Series in 1998 with a series of mandates passed down by the NCAA making it even harder to become 1-A.

HOWEVER, there have been some in the years prior in the Division 1 split's infancy where schools were 1-A and dropped down to 1-AA, but eventually went back to 1-A and never looked back.

North Texas chose to remain 1-A during the split, dropped back down to 1-AA three years later, and then went back to 1-A in 1994 and has been there ever since.

Arkansas State chose to remain 1-A during the split. They dropped down 1-AA in the same year North Texas did, but they went back to 1-A in 1992 and have been there ever since.

There was mention of the schools in the Ivy League--Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton, Brown, Pennsylvania, and Columbia--by the original poster. He is correct. The entire league was 1-A for the first three years. They all chose to drop down to 1-AA. From what I was told it had to do with their desire to put more emphasis on academics as opposed to athletics and they felt that 1-A was attempting to commercialize athletics at any cost including putting academic integrity on the line. You will notice that the Ivy League is the only conference in 1-AA that does not have a place in the 1-AA playoffs. That league chooses not to particpate in the 1-AA playoffs for pure academic reasons.

Reply: The Ivy League joined Division 1-AA about 1982. Except for Yale, the teams in the Ancient Eight didn't really chose to move into 1-AA. They were moved involuntarily, because they no longer met the standards (basically, home game attendance, as I recall) necessary to retain 1-A status. Yale could have remained in 1-A but chose to step down in order to retain old rivalries.

As for non-participation in post-season play, the Ivy has prohibited playoff competition in football since its formal organization in the mid-1950s. Much earlier, however, Yale, Princeton and Harvard agreed not to participate in bowls, even though Harvard ignored its pledge and played in the 1920 Rose Bowl. Yale had passed on the Rose Bowl at the end of the 1916 season, and but for the ban Princeton would have gone to the Rose Bowl (instead of Columbia, a team the Tigers beat) at the end of the '33 season.

[RaiderInTheZone]

>> Northern Illinois, Ball State, Bowling Green,Kent St, Miami-Oh, Ohio, and Eastern Michigan dropped back to I-AA in 1982, but returned to I-A in 1983.<<

Are you sure about Miami,OH ?

Also wasn't there a rule at the time that if you did not meet the requirements to stay in I-A but were in a conference where a majority of schools did, then you were allowed to stay? I think that is why the MAC survived as a group.

Also,wasn't East Carolina I-AA for a brief time?


Miami of Ohio spent one season in 1-AA:

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/mac/miami/index.php


East Carolina was never 1-AA:

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/conferenceusa/east_carolina/index.php

[RaiderInTheZone]

Reply: The Ivy League joined Division 1-AA about 1982. Except for Yale, the teams in the Ancient Eight didn't really chose to move into 1-AA. They were moved involuntarily, because they no longer met the standards (basically, home game attendance, as I recall) necessary to retain 1-A status. Yale could have remained in 1-A but chose to step down in order to retain old rivalries.

As for non-participation in post-season play, the Ivy has prohibited playoff competition in football since its formal organization in the mid-1950s. Much earlier, however, Yale, Princeton and Harvard agreed not to participate in bowls, even though Harvard ignored its pledge and played in the 1920 Rose Bowl. Yale had passed on the Rose Bowl at the end of the 1916 season, and but for the ban Princeton would have gone to the Rose Bowl (instead of Columbia, a team the Tigers beat) at the end of the '33 season.

That's a shame for Yale because they were THE team to beat back in the day. And if my research serves me right, they still edge Notre Dame for the most Division 1 national titles.

[DFW HOYA]

I don't understand the concept of a university system where there isn't a well defined flagship. All it does is create infighting between the highest schools over spending and things like names.

Texas has a number of university systems. The University of Texas (9 universities, flagship in Austin) and Texas A&M University System (9 universities, flagship in College Station) are the major ones, though other schools have begun to add branch campuses to get more clout in the legislature funding process (University of North Texas System, Texas Tech University System, University of Houston System, etc.)

The former Southwest Texas State is one of five regional schools in the "Texas State University System", along with Lamar, Sul Ross, Angelo State, and Tarleton State. While they can certainly use the name, the "Texas State" moniker is not at the land grant level nor akin to a Louisiana State or an Oklahoma State.

[Lionsrking]

Man, don't do that. It's not the University of Louisiana. It's the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. As part of the agreement to change its name, the State specifically prohibited that school from trying to put itself above any other school that chose to use the "University of Louisiana at (insert city name)" designation and to promoting itself as the "Unversity of Louisiana." Louisiana-Lafayette is no more "Louisiana" than "Louisiana Monroe" is. In fact, it's no more "the" University of Louisiana than any other school in the University of Louisiana system is.

Louisiana, as a whole, does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana. Please call it by its proper name: The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Don't feed that school community's pathological megalomania.

To go a step further, the state legislature required that at least two schools make the name change at the same time or none could do it. That's why ULL and ULM were renamed in the same year. We could have decided to become the U of Louisiana at Hammond (ULH) but it was pointless to do so...plus we like being Southeastern.

What's funny is when I travel around the country, more people know them as USL and get ULL confused with Monroe.

[TexasTerror]

The former Southwest Texas State is one of five regional schools in the "Texas State University System", along with Lamar, Sul Ross, Angelo State, and Tarleton State. While they can certainly use the name, the "Texas State" moniker is not at the land grant level nor akin to a Louisiana State or an Oklahoma State.

That's incorrect...

Tarleton State is not in that system. They are in the A&M system, one of three institutions in the state with protection from changing names (PVA&M, Tarleton and Sam Houston).

Sam Houston State is in that system with Lamar (and it's components - Orange, Port Arthur included), Sul Ross and Angelo State as well as Texas State University - San Marcos. There is no flagship...

[Lionsrking]

Yeah, but they have a similar agreement in the University of Nevada school system but you have Nevada and UNLV when it's supposed to be Nevada-Reno and Nevada-Las Vegas.

I will refer to the Cajuns as "Louisiana" as a personal friend to many of their fans. The Monrovians prefer the anacronym ULM just like UNLV so I refer to the Warhawks as "ULM" instead of Louisiana-Monroe. That's just me.

It's a little different in Nevada than it is in Louisiana. UNLV already had an identity and a brand name, long before Nevada-Reno decided to drop Reno for athletics purposes. No one confuses the two.

[RaiderInTheZone]

To go a step further, the state legislature required that at least two schools make the name change at the same time or none could do it. That's why ULL and ULM were renamed in the same year. We could have decided to become the U of Louisiana at Hammond (ULH) but it was pointless to do so...plus we like being Southeastern.

What's funny is when I travel around the country, more people know them as USL and get ULL confused with Monroe.


I traveled to Lafayette and Monroe last year and I went through Hammond too. Geographically, it seems that Monroe is more west than Lafayette on the lines on longitude. I expected Lafayette to be closer toward Texas, but it seems to me to be closer toward Mississippi right past Baton Rouge.

[RaiderInTheZone]

It's a little different in Nevada than it is in Louisiana. UNLV already had an identity and a brand name, long before Nevada-Reno decided to drop Reno for athletics purposes. No one confuses the two.

But Nevada is not permitted to use "Nevada" in athletic branding. That's just it. In fact, they are not allowed to design merchandise with anything saying "Nevada" without including "Reno." I remember seeing this in the news a little while back.

[Sir William]

Marshall dropped down from I-A to I-AA in 1982, then returned to I-A in 1997.

Marshall was a member of the SoCon in 1982 and in the years prior. They moved to I-AA with the rest of the SoCon.

[Lionsrking]

I traveled to Lafayette and Monroe last year and I went through Hammond too. Geographically, it seems that Monroe is more west than Lafayette on the lines on longitude. I expected Lafayette to be closer toward Texas, but it seems to me to be closer toward Mississippi right past Baton Rouge.

They're roughly on the same longitude though one may technically be slightly more west than the other. Eyeballing maps isn't very accurate.

As the crow flies, Lafayette is a little closer to Mississippi than Texas. And it's technically not in Southwest Louisiana, it's more South Central.

[Lionsrking]

But Nevada is not permitted to use "Nevada" in athletic branding. That's just it. In fact, they are not allowed to design merchandise with anything saying "Nevada" without including "Reno." I remember seeing this in the news a little while back.

I would say that is not accurate...

http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/sell/SellHome.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10000&KEY=

[NSUDemon98]

Man, don't do that. It's not the University of Louisiana. It's the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. As part of the agreement to change its name, the State specifically prohibited that school from trying to put itself above any other school that chose to use the "University of Louisiana at (insert city name)" designation and to promoting itself as the "Unversity of Louisiana." Louisiana-Lafayette is no more "Louisiana" than "Louisiana Monroe" is. In fact, it's no more "the" University of Louisiana than any other school in the University of Louisiana system is.

Louisiana, as a whole, does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana. Please call it by its proper name: The University of Louisiana at Lafayette. Don't feed that school community's pathological megalomania.

I know no one from NSU wants them being percieved as being THE University of Louisiana which is what they want[because they are not]...they can say it all they want down in Lafayette but that is as far as it will go.

NSU, LaTech, ULM, Grambling, McNeese, Nicholls, LSU, Tulane, Southern and UNO will never let that ***** fly...xnonox

And no, I am not a LSU fan.

[Lionsrking]

I know no one from NSU wants them being percieved as being THE University of Louisiana which is what they want[because they are not]...they can say it all they want down in Lafayette but that is as far as it will go.

NSU, LaTech, ULM, Grambling, McNeese, Nicholls, LSU, Tulane, Southern and UNO will never let that ***** fly...xnonox

And no, I am not a LSU fan.

If they were truly the University of Louisiana, they wouldn't be in the Sun Belt...end of story.xcoffeex

[RaiderInTheZone]

If they were truly the University of Louisiana, they wouldn't be in the Sun Belt...end of story.xcoffeex

Well, I like to think of it like this. Only two schools in Louisiana have NEVER been 1-AA. Care to guess which two they are?

[MplsBison]

The former Southwest Texas State is one of five regional schools in the "Texas State University System", along with Lamar, Sul Ross, Angelo State, and Tarleton State.

I'm aware of this.

Sam Houston is also in there.


And TSU and Sam Houston are in the middle of a bitter fight over names.


So, as I said, I don't see the point of having a university system where there is no well defined flagship.

[DFW HOYA]

Well, I like to think of it like this. Only two schools in Louisiana have NEVER been 1-AA. Care to guess which two they are?

LSU never was--I'm guessing you mean Centenary and UNO; of course, Loyola used to be Div. I and Xavier and Dillard were never Division I.

[TheValleyRaider]

Right.



I don't understand the concept of a university system where there isn't a well defined flagship.


All it does is create infighting between the highest schools over spending and things like names.

Not if each campus has different goals for itself. The SUNY system operates this way, as the larger University campuses have different missions and stronger programs. I'd imagine an Albany or Stony Brook grad could give you better details.

[RaiderInTheZone]

LSU never was--I'm guessing you mean Centenary and UNO; of course, Loyola used to be Div. I and Xavier and Dillard were never Division I.

No. LSU and the University of Louisiana (Lafayette campus) are the only two schools in Louisiana that have always remained 1-A since the Division 1 split.

[Old Montana State Grad]

Hey, I thought everyone in here knew the fizzledoutagain spent 20-30 years in what's now called the PAC10.

http://www.pac-10.org/school-bio/pac10-school-bio.html

Really want a laugh? Check out their record against USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon State, Oregon, Washington, Washington State, berkley and even Idy ho...

They finally dropped down with the help of the Montana Board of Regents and joined the same conference the Montana State Bobcats were in fresh off a Bluebonnett Bowl appearance. Doubt it they've ever been in an actual bowl game that wasn't arranged by mike mansfield in Japan.

[DuckDuckGriz]

Hey, I thought everyone in here knew the fizzledoutagain spent 20-30 years in what's now called the PAC10.

http://www.pac-10.org/school-bio/pac10-school-bio.html

Really want a laugh? Check out their record against USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon State, Oregon, Washington, Washington State, berkley and even Idy ho...

They finally dropped down with the help of the Montana Board of Regents and joined the same conference the Montana State Bobcats were in fresh off a Bluebonnett Bowl appearance. Doubt it they've ever been in an actual bowl game that wasn't arranged by mike mansfield in Japan.

So you're actually talking smack about who the Griz actually had the balls to play about sixty years ago? That is REALLY stupid. And bringing in Mike Mansfield (may he RIP)?

A new low for you my friend xsmhx xnonono2x

[Old Montana State Grad]

So you're actually talking smack about who the Griz actually had the balls to play about sixty years ago? That is REALLY stupid. And bringing in Mike Mansfield (may he RIP)?

A new low for you my friend xsmhx xnonono2x

Don't think soxreadx More like delusions of granduer (sic) with all your Anaconda Copper kids who were kicked up one side of the field and down the other until you came down to your little brother's level and attempted (heavy on attemptedxsmiley_wix to bully everyone. Sonny Holland instead kicked your sorry arse;) for almost twenty years).

You're still pathetic because you envision yourselves as the great--ahhh--all you do is litter the playoffs like Eastern Kentucky used toxeekx

[grayghost06]

No. LSU and the University of Louisiana (Lafayette campus) are the only two schools in Louisiana that have always remained 1-A since the Division 1 split....I would think that Tulane would fall into this category too.

[DuckDuckGriz]

Don't think soxreadx More like delusions of granduer (sic) with all your Anaconda Copper kids who were kicked up one side of the field and down the other until you came down to your little brother's level and attempted (heavy on attemptedxsmiley_wix to bully everyone. Sonny Holland instead kicked your sorry arse;) for almost twenty years).

You're still pathetic because you envision yourselves as the great--ahhh--all you do is litter the playoffs like Eastern Kentucky used toxeekx

So, littering the playoffs is making it to the semis and the finals almost every other year?

Are you really smacking that we consistently "litter" the playoffs when you're ass sits home for a 23 year span?

Old MSU Grad-

The sad thing about you is you gush over hating the Griz like it's your life story. I haven't seen a single post by you that didn't bring up the Griz. Your envy is pathetic, and for being "old" you smack with the ability of a 10 year old. Going back sixty years? Get real.

[Lionsrking]

No. LSU and the University of Louisiana (Lafayette campus) are the only two schools in Louisiana that have always remained 1-A since the Division 1 split.

Speaks even further to my point. UL-Lafayette has always been I-A/FBS yet are still stuck in the Sun Belt Conference, and going nowhere else anytime soon. La Tech is at least in the WAC for cryin' out loud and they were I-AA at one point.

[TexasTerror]

Not if each campus has different goals for itself. The SUNY system operates this way, as the larger University campuses have different missions and stronger programs. I'd imagine an Albany or Stony Brook grad could give you better details.

It is a system issue, not one of the schools. The system debates how big the font of the system should be on letterhead, signage and more. They want their name out there and changing all the schools to 'TEXAS STATE' would do that mission...

We went from a school-strong system to a Chancellor-strong model a few years ago when they appointed a former politico with quite the ego (in a meeting with him, he reminded students how he raised the most $$$ in a statewide election outside of Governor or something like that)...who wants to be known...

[Grizalltheway]

Don't think soxreadx More like delusions of granduer (sic) with all your Anaconda Copper kids who were kicked up one side of the field and down the other until you came down to your little brother's level and attempted (heavy on attemptedxsmiley_wix to bully everyone. Sonny Holland instead kicked your sorry arse;) for almost twenty years).

You're still pathetic because you envision yourselves as the great--ahhh--all you do is litter the playoffs like Eastern Kentucky used toxeekx

66-35-5. Now piss off.

[SoCon48]

If they were truly the University of Louisiana, they wouldn't be in the Sun Belt...end of story.xcoffeex

Bwaaaaaaaaaak!

[TheValleyRaider]

It is a system issue, not one of the schools. The system debates how big the font of the system should be on letterhead, signage and more. They want their name out there and changing all the schools to 'TEXAS STATE' would do that mission...

We went from a school-strong system to a Chancellor-strong model a few years ago when they appointed a former politico with quite the ego (in a meeting with him, he reminded students how he raised the most $$$ in a statewide election outside of Governor or something like that)...who wants to be known...

Oh, I know some systems have that debate, and I can certainly understand where they're coming from. I was just thinking of an example where the "no flagship" model is used and seems to work reasonably well.

[HensRock]

Tulane was never I-AA to my knowledge.

Villanova is an example of a school that completely dropped I-A football (1980?) and restarted football at the I-AA classification in 1985.

[MplsBison]

Not if each campus has different goals for itself. The SUNY system operates this way, as the larger University campuses have different missions and stronger programs. I'd imagine an Albany or Stony Brook grad could give you better details.

I believe Buffalo is the Flagship of SUNY.

[813Jag]

Tulane was never I-AA to my knowledge.

Villanova is an example of a school that completely dropped I-A football (1980?) and restarted football at the I-AA classification in 1985.
Tulane has been Division I-A for their whole history. They were independent since the split in 1978 until they joined C-USA in 1996. USL (xlolx ) been D-I forever and no bowl games. xnonono2x The Sun Belt really helped them.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I believe Buffalo is the Flagship of SUNY.

Wrong!

Stony Brook, Albany, Binghamton and Buffalo share the flagship role.

[Lionsrking]

Tulane has been Division I-A for their whole history. They were independent since the split in 1978 until they joined C-USA in 1996. USL (xlolx ) been D-I forever and no bowl games. xnonono2x The Sun Belt really helped them.

Of course Tulane was a member of the SEC from 1932 through 1965.

[TheValleyRaider]

I believe Buffalo is the Flagship of SUNY.

They are not. As pointed before, the role is shared. When he ran for Governor a few years ago, Tom Golisano made the establishment of Buffalo as the State's flagship campus one of his campaign platforms. Would have renamed it New York State or something like that.

[McTailGator]

Have any schools from FBS ever moved back down to FCS?

Didn't the Ivy League get moved to FCS?


McNeese was I-A in the late 70's and until 1982.

We played in 3 Independance Bowls.

Beat Tulsa in 1976
Lost to Syracuse in 1979; and
Lost to Southern Miss in 1980.

[McTailGator]

Yeah, but they have a similar agreement in the University of Nevada school system but you have Nevada and UNLV when it's supposed to be Nevada-Reno and Nevada-Las Vegas.

I will refer to the Cajuns as "Louisiana" as a personal friend to many of their fans. The Monrovians prefer the anacronym ULM just like UNLV so I refer to the Warhawks as "ULM" instead of Louisiana-Monroe. That's just me.
xnonox


Yea BUT ; HELL


THERE IS NO: THE UNIVESITY OF LOUISIANA. PERIOD!

They are Lafayette and Monroe.

If they don't like the local desgnations, they are free to return to their bi-directional regional status at anytime.

Quit feeding the idiots.

[McTailGator]

What you meant to say was:


LSU does not want that school referenced as the University of Louisiana.



NO, he said it right...

THOSE OF US THAT ARE FROM LOUISIANA DO NOT WANT THEM REFERENCED AS SUCH.

McNeese, La.Tech, Grambling, Lafayette, Monroe, the University of N.O., Southeastern, Northwestern, and Nichols are all part of the Universty of Louisiana System. No school is more than the other, thus the legal reason, none can be more or better than the rest.

[McTailGator]

I traveled to Lafayette and Monroe last year and I went through Hammond too. Geographically, it seems that Monroe is more west than Lafayette on the lines on longitude. I expected Lafayette to be closer toward Texas, but it seems to me to be closer toward Mississippi right past Baton Rouge.


Lafayette is 100 miles from the Texas Boarder and 145 miles from the Mississippi boarder on I-10. McNeese, which is located in Lake Charles, is only about 35 miles from the Texas border.

[MplsBison]

McNeese, La.Tech, Grambling, Lafayette, Monroe, the University of N.O., Southeastern, Northwestern, and Nichols are all part of the Universty of Louisiana System. No school is more than the other, thus the legal reason, none can be more or better than the rest.

I see no legitimate reason for those schools to be in that university system, then.

[MplsBison]

When he ran for Governor a few years ago, Tom Golisano made the establishment of Buffalo as the State's flagship campus one of his campaign platforms. Would have renamed it New York State or something like that.

That sounds like a reasonable idea.

[McTailGator]

Well, I like to think of it like this. Only two schools in Louisiana have NEVER been 1-AA. Care to guess which two they are?

You really should quit sipping all that Vermillion Cool Aid those Butt Wipes in Lafayette or serving you.

There is one school that has never been I-AA, and all the other ones in the state SHOULD be given their finances and abilities.

[McTailGator]

No. LSU and the University of Louisiana (Lafayette campus) are the only two schools in Louisiana that , have always remained 1-A since the Division 1 split.


Now I know you have had too much Cool Aid.xnonono2x

"THE University of Louisiana is a SYSTEM. Not a school. Therefore they do not have A Campus.

The University of Louisiana SYSTEM has a school with campus in Lafayette, La.

[McTailGator]

I see no legitimate reason for those schools to be in that university system, then.

Yes, there is a good reason.

One is so that we have a equal voice in the state legislature when trying to get funding that LSU would love to suck up.

the other is to regulate the schools for the prevention of duplication of services. Such as, we don't want too many state schools to duplicate a Pharmacy school, which UL-Monroe has. We are a small state, no need to have too many or the whole state suffers.

McNeese is an engineering and Business school, but also has excellent Nursing and Teaching schools as well. Northwestern, has an excellent Nursing school (in Shreveport), and a teaching college, but the state recognises the need for professionals in those areas, so those programs are duplicated in all the ULS schools. Northwestern has a good Aviation program, that no one else in the state has.

Grambling, is Grambling, and they pretty much duplicate everyone, but what can you do about that. Louisiana Tech has a strong Engineering program, with a Petroleum Concentration. McNeese's engineering school tends to concentrate on Civil, Chemical, Electrical, and Mechanical to service the petrochemical industry that surrounds the University and the Lake Charles area.

That is what the system does. It does out the missions of each university so that professions are spread out around the state and not all located in one central region. Therefore there can be no flaggship, or else it might want to sink the rest of the Fleet like LSU would do.

LSU and Southern each have their own systems.

[MplsBison]

the other is to regulate the schools for the prevention of duplication of services.

IE, to act like a union and outlaw competition?


And I thought that LA was a right to work state.


We are a small state, no need to have too many or the whole state suffers.


Maybe.


But then again, why not let the market decide rather than what you're doing now?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

That sounds like a reasonable idea.

Not when the SUNY System wasn't designed to have one flagship school.

If the State of NY really had (or wanted) a flagship university, it would be a huge school like Penn State, Ohio State or Texas. And it wouldn't be playing football in the MAC like Buffalo does.

Danefan or Dane96, feel free to continue!

[RaiderInTheZone]

Speaks even further to my point. UL-Lafayette has always been I-A/FBS yet are still stuck in the Sun Belt Conference, and going nowhere else anytime soon. La Tech is at least in the WAC for cryin' out loud and they were I-AA at one point.

And beyond Boise, Hawaii, and Fresno State, what does the WAC have? Stay tuned. La Tech won't be in the WAC forever, and it won't be an invitation to CUSA that got them out.

[McTailGator]

IE, to act like a union and outlaw competition?


And I thought that LA was a right to work state.




Maybe.


But then again, why not let the market decide rather than what you're doing now?



Dah,

These schools are TAX PAYER supported. If we were a bunch of private schools I would agree, but we are not.

The system works well for the most part.


Please quit trying to figure out the rest of the country. Go find out why the Dakota's are 2 states instead of one.

[MplsBison]

Not when the SUNY System wasn't designed to have one flagship school.

If the State of NY really had (or wanted) a flagship university, it would be a huge school like Penn State, Ohio State or Texas. And it wouldn't be playing football in the MAC like Buffalo does.

Danefan or Dane96, feel free to continue!

UB has 27k students and wants to have 40k by 2020. They're an elite research school in the AAU with the only public law school in the state.


Looks fairly comparable to Penn State.

[MplsBison]

These schools are TAX PAYER supported.


Therefore the market doesn't apply?


Nonsense.

[Lionsrking]

And beyond Boise, Hawaii, and Fresno State, what does the WAC have? Stay tuned. La Tech won't be in the WAC forever, and it won't be an invitation to CUSA that got them out.

Let me ask you...what does the Sun Belt have period? At least the WAC has Boise, Hawaii and Fresno. But even discounting 33% of the league, I would say Nevada would be favored to win the Sun Belt this year and La Tech would on a traditional basis. San Jose and NM State are on their way up. The Sun Belt has no signature program with any type of national appeal to hang it's hat on and the football side of the league is a laughing stock around the country.

As for La Tech, I'm sure they won't be in the WAC for long because it's a MAJOR budgetary and physical drain on their secondary sports. But I don't think they belong in the FBS either.

[McTailGator]

Therefore the market doesn't apply?


Nonsense.

Why should the TAXPAYER, pay for a program that is offered at McNeese AND pay for the SAME program that Northwestern or SELA offers if there is not a HUGE need in the state?

Answer that.

[RaiderInTheZone]

Let me ask you...what does the Sun Belt have period? At least the WAC has Boise, Hawaii and Fresno. But even discounting 33% of the league, I would say Nevada would be favored to win the Sun Belt this year and La Tech would on a traditional basis. San Jose and NM State are on their way up. The Sun Belt has no signature program with any type of national appeal to hang it's hat on and the football side of the league is a laughing stock around the country.

As for La Tech, I'm sure they won't be in the WAC for long because it's a MAJOR budgetary and physical drain on their secondary sports. But I don't think they belong in the FBS either.


I sure do with SELA the best of luck this year. Have a nice day.

[813Jag]

It's good to see Bison hijack another topic. Way to go. xlolx

[Lionsrking]

I sure do with SELA the best of luck this year. Have a nice day.

thanks.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UB has 27k students and wants to have 40k by 2020. They're an elite research school in the AAU with the only public law school in the state.


Looks fairly comparable to Penn State.

When and if they get there in 2020, then they'll be comparable to Penn State in size. Right now they aren't the flagship university within the SUNY System because as I understand it, areas of emphasis have been spread out between the four locations. Unless some of these "departments" are moved to Buffalo, then no matter what their size, they wouldn't be a true flagship institution. And FWIW, Buffalo is also the location of the four co-flagship schools that is farthest from the population center of New York state. If you need additional details, then you'll have to wait for Danefan or Dane96 to jump in.

[MplsBison]

Why should the TAXPAYER, pay for a program that is offered at McNeese AND pay for the SAME program that Northwestern or SELA offers if there is not a HUGE need in the state?

Answer that.


I'd much rather let the market answer the question.


If that many pharmacy programs truly aren't needed, then the weakest ones will die off.

[CRAZY_DANE]

Not if each campus has different goals for itself. The SUNY system operates this way, as the larger University campuses have different missions and stronger programs. I'd imagine an Albany or Stony Brook grad could give you better details.

SUNY needs a complete overhaul. We have the largest state system in the country at over 400,000 full time students yet most of the 22 four-year shools have less than 10k students. Many campuses seem to hover around 2,500 students. This huge infrastructure means all the schools are cash strapped. It's also not clear what if any differences the schools have in their mission statements. The governor put together a commission but it's unlikely to change anything in the near term... campuses are based on geography and likely to be fought over in Albany like congressmen fight over military installations in DC. Anyway, the commission looks to be focused on academic improvements not athletics. Short answer is there isn't a flagship for New York... but Buffalo does have the closest claim, especially if there 2020 plan goes through.

[TheValleyRaider]

SUNY needs a complete overhaul. We have the largest state system in the country at over 400,000 full time students yet most of the 22 four-year shools have less than 10k students. Many campuses seem to hover around 2,500 students. This huge infrastructure means all the schools are cash strapped. It's also not clear what if any differences the schools have in their mission statements. The governor put together a commission but it's unlikely to change anything in the near term... campuses are based on geography and likely to be fought over in Albany like congressmen fight over military installations in DC. Anyway, the commission looks to be focused on academic improvements not athletics. Short answer is there isn't a flagship for New York... but Buffalo does have the closest claim, especially if there 2020 plan goes through.

Like a number of other things in this state's education system... xoopsx

[MplsBison]

How about privatizing the small 4 year colleges?

[ucdtim17]

We have the largest state system in the country at over 400,000 full time students yet most of the 22 four-year shools have less than 10k students.


CSU is bigger by 1,000 students according to wikipedia

[Lionsrking]

Lafayette is 100 miles from the Texas Boarder and 145 miles from the Mississippi boarder on I-10. McNeese, which is located in Lake Charles, is only about 35 miles from the Texas border.

Lafayette may be 145 miles from Mississippi along the I-10 stretch but it's only about 70 miles to the closest point.

[JohnStOnge]

Speaks even further to my point. UL-Lafayette has always been I-A/FBS yet are still stuck in the Sun Belt Conference, and going nowhere else anytime soon. La Tech is at least in the WAC for cryin' out loud and they were I-AA at one point.

Plus Louisiana Tech actually once beat Alabama at Birmingham during a year (1999) when the Tide went on to win the SEC championship. I think that win, just in terms of prevailing against a very tough team in a very tough place, was the most impressive single win ever by a former I-AA team.

I know that the Boise State win over OU comes to mind. But that one was on a neutral field. Playing Alabama at Birmingham was not playing on a neutral field.

I also think 1999 Alabama was better relative to the rest of college football than 2006 Oklahoma was. That's debatable but somewhat supported by Sagarin ratings (Alabama ended 10th in 1999, OU 16th in 2006) and polls (1999 Alabama ended 8th in both major polls, Oklahoma 11th in both major polls in 2006).

Another one is Marshall's win at Big 12 champ Kansas State in 2003. But Kansas State was playing without its starting quarterback. He did miss a lot of other games to but I think he came back in the end and could have been a factor in them being Big 12 champ.

[CRAZY_DANE]

CSU is bigger by 1,000 students according to wikipedia


SUNY is 414,000 full time and over 1,000,000 with continuing education. It was a big news story in New York that we're still the largest. The story was cited by credible sources (not wikapedia), so I tend to think it's true. That 414,000 doesn't even count CUNY.

Don't get me wrong, bigger isn't better in this case. I'm humble enough to know New York could learn a few things from Michigan and UC. xreadx

[Golden Eagle]

"THE University of Louisiana is a SYSTEM. Not a school. Therefore they do not have A Campus.

The University of Louisiana SYSTEM has a school with campus in Lafayette, La.

He's probably confused because in Tennessee there is but one true University of Tennessee, the one in Knoxville. Sure, other schools may be members of that system, but they are clearly little brother schools. Nobody would ever dare suggest they be treated anywhere near as the Vols are. What a sick thing to even contemplate.

[ucdtim17]

SUNY is 414,000 full time and over 1,000,000 with continuing education. It was a big news story in New York that we're still the largest. The story was cited by credible sources (not wikapedia), so I tend to think it's true. That 414,000 doesn't even count CUNY.

Don't get me wrong, bigger isn't better in this case. I'm humble enough to know New York could learn a few things from Michigan and UC. xreadx

I just always assumed CSU was by far the biggest - it's weird they're both right at ~414,000

[RaiderInTheZone]

He's probably confused because in Tennessee there is but one true University of Tennessee, the one in Knoxville. Sure, other schools may be members of that system, but they are clearly little brother schools. Nobody would ever dare suggest they be treated anywhere near as the Vols are. What a sick thing to even contemplate.

That's probably why Chattanooga in athletic branding appears to be dropping the "University of Tennessee" label and simply referring themselves as the Chattanooga Mocs. Not a bad plan. The UT system holds other UT schools back like the Board of Regents held Middle Tennessee back with the Geier Consent Decree to kiss up to Tennessee State, Austin Peay, and Tennessee Tech in order to block the school from changing it's name.

[SactoHornetFan]

SUNY needs a complete overhaul. We have the largest state system in the country at over 400,000 full time students yet most of the 22 four-year shools have less than 10k students.

Not true. The CSU system is the largest with 414K. We do not include the community colleges that SUNY does. Therefore, we are the largest university system. And SUNY states that even with the community colleges, they only come to 413K.

[MplsBison]

What is the flagship of the CSU system?

San Jose was the first school, San Diego has the largest budget, and Long Beach has the largest enrollment.

[ucdtim17]

There is no "flagship"

[DTSpider]

Back to the original question...

Richmond did not drop down to 1AA with William & Mary and others in 1981 as UR met the NCAA criteria to stay 1A. UR's board however voted to change classifications in 1983. Part of the reason was the UR never could get approval from the City of Richmond to build an on-campus stadium (in the early 1970's had a proposal for a 40k seat facility), and unfortunately still can't (this time only trying for 9k).