A One-Year ASUN/WAC Hybrid League for AQ Status in '21

[TexasTerror]

We have said that creativity will reign supreme in '21 for football in light of the recent announcement(s) about league membership...


I am not a subscriber to EXTRA POINTS but seeing some social media chatter that the ASUN & WAC are exploring a 'hybrid' league in '21 per Matt Brown of Extra Points to ensure the automatic bid to the FCS playoffs for next year and to help these school(s) with scheduling.


The deadline to submit a request for an automatic bid for '21 is fast approaching.


Multiple leagues - ASUN, WAC, Big South, OVC and Southland - impacted by the decisions in recent weeks pertaining to new league membership.


Dixie State's athletic director acknowledged on social media that they are not sure if they can be "full participants" in the WAC schedule due to the amount of contracts that they are linked to.


From an FCS perspective, this could be a fun one-year league! The WAC's new schools from Texas, Tarleton, Central Arkansas, Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky. Am I missing someone if Dixie State is not in the mix? That would give each of the schools seven conference in '21 and the league would have an automatic bid as there'd be six "eligible" schools plus Tarleton.


Should add that I have also seen comments that the ASUN schools would perhaps just compete in the Big South in '21 and this is a non-issue but Matt Brown usually knows something.

[NHwildEcat]

I am a subscriber; and there is talk of a 'hybrid' league, but it still seems like a monumental hurdle to climb. ASUN will still only be at 5 schools (EKU, Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, Kennesaw State and North Alabama). North Alabama is still transitioning and won't be eligible under current rules until 2022-23 while Liberty will remain FBS-Independent, and Stetson will continue as non-scholarship w/in the Pioneer. I don't see how they get an AQ until they add a new member and UNA becomes fully eligible in '22-23.

WAC should have 6 eligible programs this fall. Then Southern Utah would be counted on in '22. So I think the WAC gets one.

If both leagues end up w/ AQ's we will be at an even 12/12 split for the playoffs (AQ's/at-large).

Based off of prior comments made by Matt Brown, what I am keenly watching for now is the CAA. Seems like quite a bit of unrest between the northern and southern schools. Will America East schools form their own AE run league? Who joins them etc? So much movement.

[Daytripper]

We have said that creativity will reign supreme in '21 for football in light of the recent announcement(s) about league membership...


I am not a subscriber to EXTRA POINTS but seeing some social media chatter that the ASUN & WAC are exploring a 'hybrid' league in '21 per Matt Brown of Extra Points to ensure the automatic bid to the FCS playoffs for next year and to help these school(s) with scheduling.


The deadline to submit a request for an automatic bid for '21 is fast approaching.


Multiple leagues - ASUN, WAC, Big South, OVC and Southland - impacted by the decisions in recent weeks pertaining to new league membership.


Dixie State's athletic director acknowledged on social media that they are not sure if they can be "full participants" in the WAC schedule due to the amount of contracts that they are linked to.


From an FCS perspective, this could be a fun one-year league! The WAC's new schools from Texas, Tarleton, Central Arkansas, Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky. Am I missing someone if Dixie State is not in the mix? That would give each of the schools seven conference in '21 and the league would have an automatic bid as there'd be six "eligible" schools plus Tarleton.


Should add that I have also seen comments that the ASUN schools would perhaps just compete in the Big South in '21 and this is a non-issue but Matt Brown usually knows something.

That would be a fun season if they could combine as a Hybrid. I think it is possible because I think most all traditional rules are out the window because of the Covid upheavals.

[katss07]

I am a subscriber; and there is talk of a 'hybrid' league, but it still seems like a monumental hurdle to climb. ASUN will still only be at 5 schools (EKU, Jacksonville State, Central Arkansas, Kennesaw State and North Alabama). North Alabama is still transitioning and won't be eligible under current rules until 2022-23 while Liberty will remain FBS-Independent, and Stetson will continue as non-scholarship w/in the Pioneer. I don't see how they get an AQ until they add a new member and UNA becomes fully eligible in '22-23.

WAC should have 6 eligible programs this fall. Then Southern Utah would be counted on in '22. So I think the WAC gets one.

If both leagues end up w/ AQ's we will be at an even 12/12 split for the playoffs (AQ's/at-large).

Based off of prior comments made by Matt Brown, what I am keenly watching for now is the CAA. Seems like quite a bit of unrest between the northern and southern schools. Will America East schools form their own AE run league? Who joins them etc? So much movement.

Brown's "Conference at a Crossroads" article on the CAA certainly made it seem like there is some unrest in the CAA. Got to wonder if the larger, more FBS ready schools look towards a move to better position themselves as it becomes clearer that the P5 will split from NCAA (the 3 VA schools, Delaware, the 2 NY schools, maybe UNH or Elon).

[WestCoastAggie]

For selfish reasons, I would hope the A-Sun schools play ball with the Big South in football this fall. I would love to play - and hopefully beat - Jax State, Kennesaw State, and Central Arkansas.

[TexasTerror]

WAC should have 6 eligible programs this fall. Then Southern Utah would be counted on in '22. So I think the WAC gets one.

The WAC only has four eligible schools since Tarleton and Dixie St are both in transition for '21 and not eligible for a FCS playoff berth.

On top of that, Dixie State's AD said their schedule is going to be hard to break out of to play a full WAC schedule in '21 because they had 10 OOC games + 1 game vs SHSU on the docket. The WAC will be at five schools in '22 and likely able to obtain a waiver that year if you had to ask me.

[DFW HOYA]

Got to wonder if the larger, more FBS ready schools look towards a move to better position themselves as it becomes clearer that the P5 will split from NCAA (the 3 VA schools, Delaware, the 2 NY schools, maybe UNH or Elon).

Outside of JMU and Delaware, no CAA schools are I-A candidates.

Richmond plays in a 8,217 seat stadium. They're not going back to City Stadium.
William & Mary has made Cary Field aka Zable Stadium a showplace, but 12,617 is as far as Colonial Williamsburg will allow.
Albany and Stony Brook could expand, but now is not the time to expect the state of NY to invest $200M on stadium work when NYC is in the dumps.
New Hampshire? 11,000 seats.
Elon? 11,000.

Outside the Ivies, the only stadia in the Northeast that could realistically get to 30,000 seats in short order is JMU, Delaware, and Holy Cross.

[NHwildEcat]

Outside of JMU and Delaware, no CAA schools are I-A candidates.

Richmond plays in a 8,217 seat stadium. They're not going back to City Stadium.
William & Mary has made Cary Field aka Zable Stadium a showplace, but 12,617 is as far as Colonial Williamsburg will allow.
Albany and Stony Brook could expand, but now is not the time to expect the state of NY to invest $200M on stadium work when NYC is in the dumps.
New Hampshire? 11,000 seats.
Elon? 11,000.

Outside the Ivies, the only stadia in the Northeast that could realistically get to 30,000 seats in short order is JMU, Delaware, and Holy Cross.

I don't think anyone from the CAA is moving to FBS - JMU, if they got an American invite - otherwise I don't see it.

UNH is content in FCS, it's the right place for the program.

[NHwildEcat]

The WAC only has four eligible schools since Tarleton and Dixie St are both in transition for '21 and not eligible for a FCS playoff berth.

On top of that, Dixie State's AD said their schedule is going to be hard to break out of to play a full WAC schedule in '21 because they had 10 OOC games + 1 game vs SHSU on the docket. The WAC will be at five schools in '22 and likely able to obtain a waiver that year if you had to ask me.

Dang, that is right. I forgot they would still be transitioning. The ASUN news has pushed the WAC to the back of my brain, it feels like awhile ago they announced their plans.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Brown's "Conference at a Crossroads" article on the CAA certainly made it seem like there is some unrest in the CAA. Got to wonder if the larger, more FBS ready schools look towards a move to better position themselves as it becomes clearer that the P5 will split from NCAA (the 3 VA schools, Delaware, the 2 NY schools, maybe UNH or Elon).

I still think Delaware and Villanova could end up in the PL. The key will be some sort of compromise regarding redshirting/AI. Covid has in many ways opened up the 5th year option. The AI is something that I still don't completely understand.....

Definitely some (seismic?) changes coming to D1 football as a whole. I would have bet against them happening before Covid issues quieted down. The fact institutions, especially state schools, are willing to change course under this climate really surprises me.

[VandalBasher]

All of this is going to be a cool model for football. The WAC and the ASUN will be establishing a precedent for future adjustments.

[NHwildEcat]

I still think Delaware and Villanova could end up in the PL. The key will be some sort of compromise regarding redshirting/AI. Covid has in many ways opened up the 5th year option. The AI is something that I still don't completely understand.....

Definitely some (seismic?) changes coming to D1 football as a whole. I would have bet against them happening before Covid issues quieted down. The fact institutions, especially state schools, are willing to change course under this climate really surprises me.

I think schools have been able to take some time and identify best what they want their programs to represent. Is it the "big" lights of FBS (of course FBS can blow up at any given second), or is it a more regionalized schedule to help cut down on wasted costs? I think 2021-2022 will see a number of changes that will alter the landscape like we haven't seen since the beginning of the past decade.

[EKU05]

Outside of JMU and Delaware, no CAA schools are I-A candidates.

Richmond plays in a 8,217 seat stadium. They're not going back to City Stadium.
William & Mary has made Cary Field aka Zable Stadium a showplace, but 12,617 is as far as Colonial Williamsburg will allow.
Albany and Stony Brook could expand, but now is not the time to expect the state of NY to invest $200M on stadium work when NYC is in the dumps.
New Hampshire? 11,000 seats.
Elon? 11,000.

Outside the Ivies, the only stadia in the Northeast that could realistically get to 30,000 seats in short order is JMU, Delaware, and Holy Cross.

You don't need 30,000 seats to be FBS. A good number of current FBS teams are under than capacity.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I don't think anyone from the CAA is moving to FBS - JMU, if they got an American invite - otherwise I don't see it.

UNH is content in FCS, it's the right place for the program.

ZERO CHANCE JMU gets a sniff from the AAC. The Sun Belt would be the ideal (and realistic) landing spot for the Dukes.

[DFW HOYA]

You don't need 30,000 seats to be FBS. A good number of current FBS teams are under than capacity.

No one is going to the Sun Belt with 8,217 seats.

[EKU05]

No one is going to the Sun Belt with 8,217 seats.

No argument there. But there's no reason to fixate on 30,000. Not very many years ago Coastal Carolina was playing in a 6,000 seat stadium.

[DFW HOYA]

No argument there. But there's no reason to fixate on 30,000. Not very many years ago Coastal Carolina was playing in a 6,000 seat stadium.

Slightly different question: can any private school make the jump? Conferences like the WAC and Sun Belt seem to be avoiding anything but public schools.

[Daytripper]

Slightly different question: can any private school make the jump? Conferences like the WAC and Sun Belt seem to be avoiding anything but public schools.

Abilene Christian is a private school associated with Church of Christ.

[katss07]

ZERO CHANCE JMU gets a sniff from the AAC. The Sun Belt would be the ideal (and realistic) landing spot for the Dukes.
Not all that realistic, considering they just rejected an invite from the Sun Belt a couple of years ago.

[katss07]

You don't need 30,000 seats to be FBS. A good number of current FBS teams are under than capacity.
25 FBS teams right now have stadiums that seat less than 30k, and 12 of those seat less than 25k. You're correct, it is by no means a requirement to have a large stadium to go FBS. Coastal did it just a few years ago with 8,000 seats. And who knows, maybe those loose attendance requirements are dropped when the P5 splits in the coming years.

I don't think there is any reason to rule out certain teams based on how large their stadium is right now.

[Mocs123]

Is there even a requirement for a 30K capacity stadium? I think the requirement is average 15K over a rolling 2 year period.

[Mocs123]

I see 23 FBS stadiums under 30K capacity with Charlotte's Richardson stadium with a capacity of 15.3K being the smallest in FBS.

[katss07]

I see 23 FBS stadiums under 30K capacity with Charlotte's Richardson stadium with a capacity of 15.3K being the smallest in FBS.
Maybe I was off on my 25 count, but yeah. There is no capacity requirement I'm aware of.

[EKU05]

Is there even a requirement for a 30K capacity stadium? I think the requirement is average 15K over a rolling 2 year period.

You're absolutely right. There's no specific stadium-size requirement. That 15K over two years thing is still on the books but essentially not enforced. I'm not aware of any school ever facing any kind of sanctions for attendance numbers.

Even if they did try to force them, attendance numbers are fuzzy. If you get creative you can find ways to make them look how they need to look. You can count tickets sold or physical bodies in the stands. You can get a corporation to purchase a bunch of tickets for very cheap.

You can hold a neutral site "home" game against an opponent who will help you pack the stands. For example, WKU and Louisville currently have a "home-and-home" series going in which Louisville's games are actually at home and Western's home games are played in Nashville at whatever they're calling the Titan's stadium these days. There are more Cardinal fans than Hilltopper fans there for those (though it's hard to tell with all that red).

[TexasTerror]

And there’s this

http://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1354931322570104834

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I see 23 FBS stadiums under 30K capacity with Charlotte's Richardson stadium with a capacity of 15.3K being the smallest in FBS.

Temple traveled to Jerry Richardson Stadium (how long until that's changed?) in 2015; the 49ers first year of FBS football. That was the year Temple hosted "Game Day" for the primetime ABC Notre Dame contest. Not a bad home game for the 49ers.....

Temple does have a history with Charlotte long before their rather brief stint in the A10. That might have been a factor as to why the Owls traveled down there during Charlotte's inaugural FBS campaign...

[JoshUCA]

And there’s this

http://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1354931322570104834

Insanity! Makes sense, but still just crazy!

[Daytripper]

Insanity! Makes sense, but still just crazy!

A pretty sporty conference at least for one year!

[SFA 93]

Now that's a football conference!

[OhioHen]

All those Twitter comments - xsmhx xrolleyesx

Clueless about Jacksonville State and worrying about the geography based on the name "Western" Athletic Conference when the reality is that the playoff eligible "conference" would be schools in Texas, Arkansas, Alabama, and Kentucky.

[Mocs123]

That just upped the travel costs for the schools involved.

[TheRevSFA]

That just upped the travel costs for the schools involved.

For one year...and the furthest west they have to travel for football is Texas..oh dear...

[Mocs123]

I don't know what the buyout was for the OVC or the Southland but if it was significant that might already have cash strapped a school and now they are having to fly 100 people rather than bus them. COVID hasn't helped any schools athletics budget either.

[TexasTerror]

I don't know what the buyout was for the OVC or the Southland but if it was significant that might already have cash strapped a school and now they are having to fly 100 people rather than bus them. COVID hasn't helped any schools athletics budget either.

Buy out for Southland schools was $300k

I think too much is being made about a one-year arrangement by school(s) and their fan base(s) who are not in the league. This was a smart move and will help with the 'gap year' between the formation of WAC and ASUN football leagues. These athletic administrators were doing good work to get to this point.

[JoshUCA]

Buy out for Southland schools was $300k

I think too much is being made about a one-year arrangement by school(s) and their fan base(s) who are not in the league. This was a smart move and will help with the 'gap year' between the formation of WAC and ASUN football leagues. These athletic administrators were doing good work to get to this point.

I agree! People are making way too big a deal of this. It will be a one-year arrangement and a win-win for all involved (minus travel).

[TexasTerror]

I agree! People are making way too big a deal of this. It will be a one-year arrangement and a win-win for all involved (minus travel).

It certainly is a better arrangement than being a FCS Independent and trying to cobble together a schedule in January and February of '21 for a football season that begins in August '21.

Yes, COVID has shown the flexibility of scheduling but I'd certainly hate to be in the same calendar year and need seven or eight games to fill out an 11-game schedule without a conference to help me!

[Mocs123]

Buy out for Southland schools was $300k

The buyout for the SoCon is $1M.

[TheRevSFA]

The buyout for the SoCon is $1M.

Well one of the conferences merits that buy out..the other is falling apart.

[TexasTerror]

Update on WAC / ASUN / Big South conference football situations. I am sure we'll have clarity even earlier than that.


https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/1355198005746479104

[Professor]

Can you post the wording of the tweet

[TexasTerror]

Can you post the wording of the tweet

You may just want to link over to this Twitter thread from Craig Haley...

https://twitter.com/CraigHaley/status/1355198005746479104

Or this article can help too.


Neither the ASUN nor the Western Athletic Conference, which two weeks announced it would form an FCS league this year, are at the NCAA minimum of six eligible schools for an automatic qualifying bid to the FCS playoffs. Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State are considering playing this fall as WAC associate members in football, which would make that conference eligible for an AQ, and Kennesaw State and North Alabama may remain in the Big South, which has an AQ, through the 2021 season.The fall scenarios are expected to be announced at an ASUN news conference on Feb. 23 at the College Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta.
"They're all being still looked at," ASUN commissioner Ted Gumbart said. "In any case, we're going to print ASUN standings with five schools and pick a player of the week and promote ASUN football, and all of those programs will have the ASUN logo on the field. There will be a little bit of a transition to protect schedules and protect AQ, but we're really pleased that we have great partners that are willing to work with us.



http://www.fcs.football/cfb/story.asp?i=20210129131613318285504&ref=rec&tm=&src=FCS

[WestCoastAggie]

https://twitter.com/md_hebert55/status/1357519688708878340?s=21

[TexasTerror]

All signs point to a non-formal relationship between the ASUN & WAC based on the tweet from last night.

We'll know for sure what's going on in the next three weeks as the ASUN did announce that press conference in Atlanta towards the end of the month.

It's all quiet otherwise on WAC, Southland, ASUN, OVC and Big South front as it relates to potential schedule adjustments for fall schedules. They all are impacted by the changes and all will need to share something in the coming weeks. I figure that ASUN announcement at end of February will initiate the release of information, particularly as these leagues (or if not a league yet, their member institutions) will have gotten the start of the spring football behind them.

[Libertine]

It's all quiet otherwise on WAC, Southland, ASUN, OVC and Big South front as it relates to potential schedule adjustments for fall schedules. They all are impacted by the changes and all will need to share something in the coming weeks.

I can pretty much guarantee that the Big South will be the last to share any information and that will be entirely determined by what the other three do.

[Professor]

Saw where the WAC and ASUN have no formal agreement. This is going to be interesting. Can they all end up in the big south

[walliver]

I suspect most of the Big South / Atlantic Sun games will be played. All teams involved will have problems finding replacement games. Whether the Big South allows KSU and UNA to compete for the auto-bid is another question. I don't see any incentive for the Big South to do that.

I don't think the auto-bid matter is as important as many here make it our to be. If the teams involved do not play well enough for an at-large bid, they really don't deserve to be in the playoffs. More likely than not, the ASUN and WAC champions will get an at-large spot.

[Libertine]

I don't think the auto-bid matter is as important as many here make it our to be. If the teams involved do not play well enough for an at-large bid, they really don't deserve to be in the playoffs.

No, a thousand times no. The auto-bid is conference credibility and means everything for a young conference. The Big South had teams with outstanding resumes go overlooked by the committee for years before securing the auto and the ASUN and WAC will surely have taken note. For the teams in those conferences, having the autobid means the difference in knowing that you have something to play for that can't be taken away instead of just hoping the right number of AD's like you enough to call your team's name after the regular season ends and you can't do anything more about it. It's tough enough to recruit kids to a school in a new conference at the FCS level, but even more so when you can't promise them that winning games will be enough to get them a shot at the ring.

[WileECoyote06]

"In any case, we're going to print ASUN standings with five schools and pick a player of the week and promote ASUN football, and all of those programs will have the ASUN logo on the field.

Why should the Big South allow this?

In my opinion, no other conference, including the Big South, should sweep in to help the WAC or ASun solve their problems.

[EKU05]

You realize we're talking about just for one season, right? We're not talking about anything that would affect future recruiting.

Also, with all due respect to the Big South, this is just a stronger lineup of programs that the Big South has really had.

Still, I certainly hope we get the AQ situation figured out. I don't think it would be a big deal for one season, but I'd still rather have one than not have one.

[Libertine]

You realize we're talking about just for one season, right? We're not talking about anything that would affect future recruiting.

I hesitate to overstate the obvious but every year is future recruiting.


Also, with all due respect to the Big South, this is just a stronger lineup of programs that the Big South has really had.

There's no question about that and having programs that have been strong in the playoffs before is certainly significant, but the larger point that having a conference autobid does indeed matter still stands. From a conference perspective, you really aren't a credible and stable group without the autobid and the sooner that the ASUN and WAC can secure them, the better off they will be. Just ask the Great West.

[JoshUCA]

I agree that people are making a bigger deal out of this than it should be. All of these schools can put together a solid schedule and if they perform well enough qualify for an at-large bid. I think we don't see any formal agreements between the ASUN and any other conference because they are fairly certain they will get that 6th member before long and it will all be a moot point.

[EKU05]

I hesitate to overstate the obvious but every year is future recruiting.



There's no question about that and having programs that have been strong in the playoffs before is certainly significant, but the larger point that having a conference autobid does indeed matter still stands. From a conference perspective, you really aren't a credible and stable group without the autobid and the sooner that the ASUN and WAC can secure them, the better off they will be. Just ask the Great West.

I get what you're saying, and I want to have the AQ for sure. But my point is that the recruiting done for next year is, for the most part, done at this point. I also don't think this is particularly comparable to the Great West which was pretty much always a group of schools who couldn't figure out where else to go. While ASUN football is new, the conference is not, and it just lured three quality FCS programs away from existing conferences to make this happen.

I'm hearing that we'll get a sixth (and possibly seventh) member announced by the end of the month, but even if it's delayed by a year I'm not particularly concerned.