So, the socon....

[Reign of Terrier]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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[Bisonator]

sucks.

WTH happened to these teams? Poor coaching changes? Poor recruiting?

[BisonFan02]

Maybe the SoCoN has become the Patriot League of the south with the glut of private and military schools. :D

[gofurman]

some doesn't make sense. ALL CREDIT to Austin Peay Today. All the credit. xdrunkyx

But we shouldn't just look at playoffs - Austin Peay lost to ETSU (THE WORST SOCON TEAM!) and Furman beat ETSU. Austin Peay beat Mercer 48-34 or so. Furman beat Mercer 45-10 in a killing where we started kneeling the ball so as not to run up the score even more. Those things just don't quite fit. Of course, It also doesn't fit that Furman lost 24-17 to VTech who is easily going to a bowl game and came one game (yesterday) close to winning the ACC Coastal division! And yet Furman lost to Woff 24-7 and and Citadel and now Austin Peay?? I guarantee you those three FCS teams I named are not near VTech. Just weird. But hey, that's football.

SoCon does have some work to do. Furman started year strong and then began to trail off... teams do that. So though I am surprised at score discrepancy I am not surprised AP beat us. I thought they might beat us by 10-15 or so. Woff I am actually a little more surprised by in that they lost at home etc.

Great job Austin Peay !!! Kudos KSU. I will be interested in scores next week

[ElCid]

Maybe the SoCoN has become the Patriot League of the south with the glut of private and military schools. :D

Oh you mean like that military school who was the only one to score a P5 victory in all of FCS this year?:D And before you say they suck, there are a lot of bad P5 teams out there...and none of them lost their FCS games.

[BisonFan02]

Oh you mean like that military school who was the only one to score a P5 victory in all of FCS this year?:D And before you say they suck, there are a lot of bad P5 teams out there...and none of them lost their FCS games.

Congrats! We didn't play one this year. :D

[HootyHoo]

Is Owned by the FCS powerhouse Kennesaw State Owls!

[TheKingpin28]

Is Owned by the FCS powerhouse Kennesaw State Owls!

Come on Chattown, calm the **** down.

[CID1990]

Fermun was a paper tiger all year. No surprise with outcome of that game.


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[Gil Dobie]

Many years ago, someone had a logo that said SoGone instead of SoCon.

[WrenFGun]

I don't think Furman belonged in the playoffs -- they lost to every team worth a damn they played. Stop rewarding teams based on any other criteria besides quality wins. Based on the seeds and the week one performance, the CAA and Southland probably deserved a 4th team before the SoCon got two, and the BSC probably deserved a 5th.

[FUBeAR]

Come on Chattown, calm the **** down.
Nope - he’s right.

Until the SoCon can win a predominance of OOC FCS games & advance to the quarterfinals (and beyond) in the Playoffs, we (Teams & Fans of SoCon Teams) should be categorized on the same FCS tier as the NEC, Patriot League, and Pioneer Football League. SoCon should begin 2020 as a 1 bid league and only a Team with a clearcut Playoff-worthy record - something like 9-2/7-1 with a decent, competitive FBS loss & a very close loss to an undefeated (in the SoCon) auto-qualifier - should even merit any consideration for an at-large Playoff bid - regardless of what the bubble looks like. Wofford & Furman were clearly the 2 best SoCon Teams over the 2019 season & both had matchups today, that appeared winnable. Both clearly soiled the linens.

Wofford & Chatt did a good job of propping up the SoCon, in some measure, following the departure of Appy & GaSou, but the proof is in the pudding & today’s exhibition proved with clear finality that, until things definitively change, the SoCon’s Football pudding is a big ol’ bowl of shiite!

[kdinva]

Oh you mean like that military school who was the only one to score a P5 victory in all of FCS this year?:D And before you say they suck, there are a lot of bad P5 teams out there...and none of them lost their FCS games.

AMEN.........and that military school that beat that military school who has a FBS win this Fall......in a perfect world, ElCid would have finished 8-4. VMI: 7-5.

[kdinva]

Fermun was a paper tiger all year.

except for their game w/VMI.....xpissedx

[Bison56]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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I'm more surprised your post was this short. :D

[PaladinFan]

sucks.

WTH happened to these teams? Poor coaching changes? Poor recruiting?

I don't think any of that is the case.

Furman looked awful today. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong. They particularly looked awful given the microscope on the game. I haven't seen Furman look this bad under Clay Hendrix, so I think it was more of a one off than any sort of massive statement of the program's quality.

Conference-wide, though, the SoCon endured a seismic shift 5 years ago with the departure of App and GSU. It'd be hard to even come up with a comparable event in the current landscape of FCS football, because the only team that is even in the conversation of those two as a program is NDSU. Would losing two national power programs in the same season cause a ripple effect for years in any conference? I'd say yes. A lot of conferences have folded with less. The SoCon has just struggled to recover from that event.

Oddly enough, the SoCon managed to recover just fine from the departure of similarly talented basketball programs (CofC and Davidson). In fact, the SoCon is one of the top mid-major basketball conferences in the country right now. Why they could get better losing their top programs in basketball but get worse in football is hard to pinpoint.

Bottom line, though, is everyone needs to get better. Today's efforts by Wofford and Furman were inexcusable. There were a lot of weak efforts by other SoCon teams out of conference that continue to hurt the brand (the Citadel, Samford, UTC, all had poor showings at times). About the only team that really exceeded expectations was VMI.

[ElCid]

AMEN.........and that military school that beat that military school who has a FBS win this Fall......in a perfect world, ElCid would have finished 8-4. VMI: 7-5.

Yeah, we were just not consistent. 6-6 with 4 one score losses. All were within reach. Ugh. Luckily, we don't lose very much next year.

[PaladinFan]

Nope - he’s right.

Until the SoCon can win a predominance of OOC FCS games & advance to the quarterfinals (and beyond) in the Playoffs, we (Teams & Fans of SoCon Teams) should be categorized on the same FCS tier as the NEC, Patriot League, and Pioneer Football League. SoCon should begin 2020 as a 1 bid league and only a Team with a clearcut Playoff-worthy record - something like 9-2/7-1 with a decent, competitive FBS loss & a very close loss to an undefeated (in the SoCon) auto-qualifier - should even merit any consideration for an at-large Playoff bid - regardless of what the bubble looks like. Wofford & Furman were clearly the 2 best SoCon Teams over the 2019 season & both had matchups today, that appeared winnable. Both clearly soiled the linens.

Wofford & Chatt did a good job of propping up the SoCon, in some measure, following the departure of Appy & GaSou, but the proof is in the pudding & today’s exhibition proved with clear finality that, until things definitively change, the SoCon’s Football pudding is a big ol’ bowl of shiite!

I can't agree on Wofford.

Until that program decides to play someone other than Gardner Webb out of conference, they are part of the problem. The SoCon's reputation isn't aided by playing the cellar teams in the Big South.

Every now and then? Sure. Nearly every year for a decade, though?

[uni88]

Many years ago, someone had a logo that said SoGone instead of SoCon.SnOwCONe

;)

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[FUBeAR]

I don't think any of that is the case.

Furman looked awful today. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong. They particularly looked awful given the microscope on the game. I haven't seen Furman look this bad under Clay Hendrix, so I think it was more of a one off than any sort of massive statement of the program's quality.

Conference-wide, though, the SoCon endured a seismic shift 5 years ago with the departure of App and GSU. It'd be hard to even come up with a comparable event in the current landscape of FCS football, because the only team that is even in the conversation of those two as a program is NDSU. Would losing two national power programs in the same season cause a ripple effect for years in any conference? I'd say yes. A lot of conferences have folded with less. The SoCon has just struggled to recover from that event.

Oddly enough, the SoCon managed to recover just fine from the departure of similarly talented basketball programs (CofC and Davidson). In fact, the SoCon is one of the top mid-major basketball conferences in the country right now. Why they could get better losing their top programs in basketball but get worse in football is hard to pinpoint.

Bottom line, though, is everyone needs to get better. Today's efforts by Wofford and Furman were inexcusable. There were a lot of weak efforts by other SoCon teams out of conference that continue to hurt the brand (the Citadel, Samford, UTC, all had poor showings at times). About the only team that really exceeded expectations was VMI.You omitted Mercer’s loss to Campbell & VMI lost to BobbyMoe.

SoCon, as a whole, was abysmal OOC in FCS games & what’s worse than abysmal(?) in the Playoffs.

At first blush, FUBeAR would say, ‘the fix’ is greatly increasing recruiting budgets & Asst Coaching Salary Pools ...and...gosh, this pains me to say...invite JaxSt & KennSt to join. Rising tides lift all boats. SoCon Football needs to decide if it desires relevance in FCS or is happy at the NEC, PL, PFL level.

[FUBeAR]

I can't agree on Wofford.

Until that program decides to play someone other than Gardner Webb out of conference, they are part of the problem. The SoCon's reputation isn't aided by playing the cellar teams in the Big South.

Every now and then? Sure. Nearly every year for a decade, though?
...and some of the deck chairs on The Titanic were ugly & out of place too. Woffy’s crappy OOC schedule is an issue, but they stayed ranked & won a playoff game or 2 in the intervening years I’m citing. You’re majoring in the minors by calling that out. There is not 1 SoCon Team in the 9 that doesn’t share some burden of responsibility for allowing the SoCon to truly sink to the level of the PL, NEC, and PFL...and I mean no disrespect to those 3 leagues by my comments. I think all 3 of them are where they want to be & fulfilling the missions of their member schools. If that’s where the SoCon wants to be...OK...FUBeAR doesn’t like it though...not even a little bit!

[kalm]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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Good on ya, YT.

[Milktruck74]

SoCon should be a one bid league.....until we prove otherwise. We have had a hard year....Win some OOCs in 2020, then maybe 2 bids....but based on what we saw today.....1

[RootinFerDukes]

One bid conference moving forward. They've fallen so far since App State and Georgia Southern left.

[uni88]

Good on ya, YT.[emoji106]

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[Reign of Terrier]

I've said multiple times if I was wrong, I would own it.

I still think there's some stuff wrong with the way public perception shapes the bracket. But it doesn't matter for my team and conference because we are not good enough to even make the case that we should be included.

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[that guy]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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Kuddos for the thread, but now I don't feel like roasting you. On another note, no Furman in Fargo? What?

[Preferred Walk-On]

I don't think Furman belonged in the playoffs -- they lost to every team worth a damn they played. Stop rewarding teams based on any other criteria besides quality wins. Based on the seeds and the week one performance, the CAA and Southland probably deserved a 4th team before the SoCon got two, and the BSC probably deserved a 5th.

You forgot to mention a 5th from the MVFC before the others you listed. I'm sure just an oversight on your part.


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[Reign of Terrier]

The CAA is silently struggling.


Also just watch KSU beat Weber and the narrative about the socon doesn't adjust, but the narrative about the Big Sky sustains.

Furman laid an egg but Kennesaw is a good team. No shame in Wofford losing to them.

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[Reign of Terrier]

Also **** Furman they did more to hurt the socon this year than any team ever has IMO

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[Bisonoline]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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That is A LOT of being wrong. Wow. May be you should take 2-3 years off to reflect. Then come back and take another swing at it. No dont come back just keep reflecting.

[TheRevSFA]

So, the SOCON went 0-2, while the lowly Southland, as some SOCON posters like to refer it as, went 2-0....

Hmmm.........

[Sader87]

There is not a bucket full of spit of difference between most of the teams in the FCS today most years outside of the usual suspects.

Even moreso now after all the FCS to FBS jumps over the last 10-15 years or so.

The FCS in 2019:

NDSU, JMU, maybe SDSU

The next seeded teams.

The next 40-50 teams.

Everyone else in the FCS

[HootyHoo]

This weekend was a reality check for socon football. The conference has never recovered from App St and GASO leaving for the FBS. Kennesaw State is 3-0 vs the socon in the playoffs.
Big South>socon

[katss07]

This weekend was a reality check for socon football. The conference has never recovered from App St and GASO leaving for the FBS. Kennesaw State is 3-0 vs the socon in the playoffs.
Big South>socon
Southland>SoCon
MEAC>SoCon
Big South>SoCon

[WrenFGun]

You forgot to mention a 5th from the MVFC before the others you listed. I'm sure just an oversight on your part.


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Totally. SIU was woofed.

[Lion1983]

Totally. SIU was woofed.

I agree.

Is it possible the fact that the perception of the MVFC is high also the same reason KSU got in though?

KSU beat Missouri State and UNA beat Western Illinois. And yes, before you say it, I know those arent the best examples of MVFC power at the moment. But perception is perception.

[caribbeanhen]

The CAA is silently struggling.


Also just watch KSU beat Weber and the narrative about the socon doesn't adjust, but the narrative about the Big Sky sustains.

Furman laid an egg but Kennesaw is a good team. No shame in Wofford losing to them.

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Well not sure how silent it is, pretty well known that the glory days of the CAA are long gone

but having said that, many were trumping up Central Conn as a top ten team while Albany wasn't even ranked until the last week I believe

and look what happened yesterday, The CAA is a mesh of teams very similar to Albany

[ElCid]

You forgot to mention a 5th from the MVFC before the others you listed. I'm sure just an oversight on your part.


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They didn't belong either. Get real.

[PaladinFan]

I agree.

Is it possible the fact that the perception of the MVFC is high also the same reason KSU got in though?

KSU beat Missouri State and UNA beat Western Illinois. And yes, before you say it, I know those arent the best examples of MVFC power at the moment. But perception is perception.

Just a reminder that Austin Peay lost to the SoCon's worst team this season. All this isn't as cut and dry as everyone might expect.

- - - Updated - - -


They didn't belong either. Get real.

16 teams. Finish before Christmas.

[WrenFGun]

Well not sure how silent it is, pretty well known that the glory days of the CAA are long gone

but having said that, many were trumping up Central Conn as a top ten team while Albany wasn't even ranked until the last week I believe

and look what happened yesterday, The CAA is a mesh of teams very similar to Albany

The CAA was the third best conference in fcs this year. Villanova was not a top 10 team, but teams like Maine, Albany and UNH were perennially underranked this season. Richmond too.

There was only one deep playoff run team but there were plenty of top 25 caliber teams here that actually had a win over someone.

[Professor Chaos]

Well not sure how silent it is, pretty well known that the glory days of the CAA are long gone

but having said that, many were trumping up Central Conn as a top ten team while Albany wasn't even ranked until the last week I believe

and look what happened yesterday, The CAA is a mesh of teams very similar to Albany
Signed "Sincerely, a fan of one of 'The Wings'" :D

[caribbeanhen]

Signed "Sincerely, a fan of one of 'The Wings'" :D

Was that you.. actually after seeing the better part of the first quarter it looked like C Conn St was the better team.... turned out not to be the case

[uni88]

Signed "Sincerely, a fan of one of 'The Wings'" :D:D Wings or American English?

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[PaladinFan]

The CAA was the third best conference in fcs this year. Villanova was not a top 10 team, but teams like Maine, Albany and UNH were perennially underranked this season. Richmond too.

There was only one deep playoff run team but there were plenty of top 25 caliber teams here that actually had a win over someone.

Maine has gone two consecutive seasons without playing the best team in its own conference.

[Preferred Walk-On]

They didn't belong either. Get real.

The intent of the quote was to point out that there was another conference with a bubble team that was not mentioned. So "oh wise one", which team should I "get real" with?


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[Redbird 4th & short]

Y'all can roast me here. I was wrong on all of my takes over the last couple months. I said I would admit it and here I am.

We remain in the wilderness.

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Reign .. you get kudos for manning up here !

Just a down year for SoCon. The concern I would have is it was starting to look like SoCon was starting to recover a few years ago after losing top 2 programs to FBS .. but now it seems to be slipping again. Things usually go in cycles, but here's what I noticed with Big Sky the last 2 years. They too struggled for quality depth (outside of EWU). But then they made a concerted effort to start playing a much tougher OOC schedule with their FBS games and MVFC challenge series .. and now the last 2 years, they have 4 to 5 legit playoff teams.

IMO, stronger conferences make sure they have strong SOS in terms of preparing teams for playoffs, as well as with recruiting and developing better players ... whether that is coming from OOC or conf games ... all ships usually rise, even while going 7-4 or 6-5 because irt is hard to do better than .500 in MVFC. This year was not a good example since our lower half really fell off this year ... but this was the exception in last 10 years.

MVFC did it when we added NDSU and SDSU, and everyone else was trying to keep up. Colonial was THE dominant conference the prior decade, since 2011-12, it has been mostly MVFC .. even though we got just 2 or 3 bids several years, while Colonial, Big Sky, or less so Southland that kept getting benefit of doubt with marginal teams .. and their playoff records all slipped.

Big Sky did it recently because of their commitment to tough SOS and converting from a pass happy conference, to a more well rounded conference. They still pass a lot, but several teams have stepped up their defenses and run games compare to 5 years ago.

Obviously, I tend to dwell on SOS .. but it really makes a difference over time IMO.

[cx500d]

One and done....like the patsy league

[caribbeanhen]

One and done....like the patsy league

SoCo laid an egg but it was two over easy

[cx500d]

SoCo laid an egg but it was two over easy
Yes, two orders of **** on a shingle

[PaladinFan]

Reign .. you get kudos for manning up here !

Just a down year for SoCon. The concern I would have is it was starting to look like SoCon was starting to recover a few years ago after losing top 2 programs to FBS .. but now it seems to be slipping again. Things usually go in cycles, but here's what I noticed with Big Sky the last 2 years. They too struggled for quality depth (outside of EWU). But then they made a concerted effort to start playing a much tougher OOC schedule with their FBS games and MVFC challenge series .. and now the last 2 years, they have 4 to 5 legit playoff teams.

IMO, stronger conferences make sure they have strong SOS in terms of preparing teams for playoffs, as well as with recruiting and developing better players ... whether that is coming from OOC or conf games ... all ships usually rise, even while going 7-4 or 6-5 because irt is hard to do better than .500 in MVFC. This year was not a good example since our lower half really fell off this year ... but this was the exception in last 10 years.

MVFC did it when we added NDSU and SDSU, and everyone else was trying to keep up. Colonial was THE dominant conference the prior decade, since 2011-12, it has been mostly MVFC .. even though we got just 2 or 3 bids several years, while Colonial, Big Sky, or less so Southland that kept getting benefit of doubt with marginal teams .. and their playoff records all slipped.

Big Sky did it recently because of their commitment to tough SOS and converting from a pass happy conference, to a more well rounded conference. They still pass a lot, but several teams have stepped up their defenses and run games compare to 5 years ago.

Obviously, I tend to dwell on SOS .. but it really makes a difference over time IMO.

It's just hard to make a real assessment of the impact on this point. There's just not really another FCS conference that has had to navigate these waters and continuously reinvent itself. Losing App and GSU would be akin to losing North Dakota State and James Madison from the same conference in the same year.

So, it is just really hard to predict how the conference should respond. There's just not a blueprint for it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

One and done....like the patsy league

Is that referring to playoff results or number of winning teams? Because if it's regarding the PL being able to produce but a single team with a winning record each of the last 3 seasons it's hard not to be amazed. The level of commitment that must be met to achieve such futility is almost worthy of applause.

Top to bottom the SoCon is much better obviously. But at this point the ceiling for each conference's best team is about the same.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

So, it is just really hard to predict how the conference should respond. There's just not a blueprint for it.

I've said before and still believe that the loss of GSU and App State need not be a death sentence, but IMO Kennesaw State should've been a no-brainer to add for football and should've been taken over VMI and probably ETSU as well. Jax State was a least worth cajoling as well. Like I said if SoCon fans like the conference membership the way it is that's all that matters but it wasn't the best way to go about things from a competitive standpoint.

As for the games, I'm not that surprised Kennesaw beat Wofford and it's nothing to sound the alarm over. IMO Monmouth was a hiccup for KSU and they'll go up and give Weber State all they want. Furman's loss to APSU is a lot more bewildering to me though Mark Hudspeth is a great coach when he hasn't had to recruit and develop his own players. Nothing to really be alarmed about IMO.

[PaladinFan]

I've said before and still believe that the loss of GSU and App State need not be a death sentence, but IMO Kennesaw State should've been a no-brainer to add for football and should've been taken over VMI and probably ETSU as well. Jax State was a least worth cajoling as well. Like I said if SoCon fans like the conference membership the way it is that's all that matters but it wasn't the best way to go about things from a competitive standpoint.

As for the games, I'm not that surprised Kennesaw beat Wofford and it's nothing to sound the alarm over. IMO Monmouth was a hiccup for KSU and they'll go up and give Weber State all they want. Furman's loss to APSU is a lot more bewildering to me though Mark Hudspeth is a great coach when he hasn't had to recruit and develop his own players. Nothing to really be alarmed about IMO.

I'm actually less perplexed by the Furman game than I was the Wofford game. Furman is a relatively young team, plays a bunch of freshmen, went on the road against a good team, played in bad weather, and just about everything that could go wrong went wrong. Still, it was 7-3 at half and both teams had exactly equal yardage. The wheels just came off in the third quarter and most of the crippling mistakes were committed by freshmen.

As for the SoCon, I think the conference needs to figure out what it wants to be.

[NY Crusader 2010]

The CAA was the third best conference in fcs this year. Villanova was not a top 10 team, but teams like Maine, Albany and UNH were perennially underranked this season. Richmond too.

There was only one deep playoff run team but there were plenty of top 25 caliber teams here that actually had a win over someone.

Richmond lost to Fordham, enough said. Albany's ranking was definitely hurt by losing early to Monmouth who was also under-ranked until they beat KSU. UNH would've been in the playoffs with one more win. And I thought Maine would have deserved a bid at 7-5 had they beat UNH to end the season. They would've finished the year on a 5-game CAA win streak and would've been 7-3 against FCS. Towson also probably controlled their own destiny in the final week but couldn't beat Elon.

And that's the story of why the CAA was a three-bid league in 2019.

[Reign of Terrier]

KSU beating Wofford isn't a huge upset. They're our worst matchup.

Having said that, I feel like if KSU beats Weber there needs to be some retractions.

Furman laid an egg and it may ruin the conference next year for the playoffs, but you can't in one breath condemn the socon for losing to KSU and then have the 3 seed lose to them too.

I'm not saying it's definitely going to happen or even if it's likely. But the playoffs are about matchups as much as anything. We could have just had a bad matchup. If that game's played in the second round or quarterfinals, the narrative is different. The fact that teams aren't seeded from 1-24 has us rely on a simplistic heuristic of when games are played to determine how bad the loss was.

The jury is still out on Wofford and KSU, but if KSU wins Saturday, Wofford should get a reprieve.

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[Reign of Terrier]

That is A LOT of being wrong. Wow. May be you should take 2-3 years off to reflect. Then come back and take another swing at it. No dont come back just keep reflecting.If I reflected for a microsecond, it would be more than you have in an entire lifetime

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[Bisonoline]

If I reflected for a microsecond, it would be more than you have in an entire lifetime

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Try it. Dont let that insecurity get to you.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

Of course, It also doesn't fit that Furman lost 24-17 to VTech who is easily going to a bowl game and came one game (yesterday) close to winning the ACC Coastal division! And yet Furman lost to Woff 24-7 and and Citadel and now Austin Peay?? I guarantee you those three FCS teams I named are not near VTech. Just weird. But hey, that's football.


Late to the party on this thread, but for the record the VT team that Furman played totally transformed once QB Ryan Willis was replaced. Furman totally had that game within its reach, but VT at that point in the season was similar to a top 10 FCS team, not a top 25 bowl-eligible, ACC title contender. That doesn't take anything away from Furman's efforts in that game, but it does help explain some of the head scratching if one were to look at things on paper only.

I still think Furman is a solid team, the class of the SoCon, and will get back to playoff winning days in the near future. I respect The Citadel's football team as well, but while they have had more recent post season success I think Furman is still the measuring stick for the SoCon since App St. and GSU's departures for the Sun Belt.

[PaladinFan]

Late to the party on this thread, but for the record the VT team that Furman played totally transformed once QB Ryan Willis was replaced. Furman totally had that game within its reach, but VT at that point in the season was similar to a top 10 FCS team, not a top 25 bowl-eligible, ACC title contender. That doesn't take anything away from Furman's efforts in that game, but it does help explain some of the head scratching if one were to look at things on paper only.

I still think Furman is a solid team, the class of the SoCon, and will get back to playoff winning days in the near future. I respect The Citadel's football team as well, but while they have had more recent post season success I think Furman is still the measuring stick for the SoCon since App St. and GSU's departures for the Sun Belt.

I guess the point is it is all relative. Folks can't condemn Furman for not having a "quality" win and ignore they had a top 25 ACC team on the ropes for four quarters.

Furman isn't yet the class of the SoCon. I think that if the Paladins can iron out their QB situation, they'll be back in the saddle soon enough. The recruiting classes are highly regarded and, at least according to Hero, Furman's 2020 class is one of the tops in the FCS. Rome wasn't (re)built in a day.

[FUBeAR]

Kinda funny watching RoT & PF, in this thread (and elsewhere), pointing to each others’ diaper & saying the other guy’s is dirtier. Both, along with the SoCon OOC this year STINK, STANK, and STUNK!

PF, though, did hit the right note in a recent post.

The Southern Conference, and its Member Schools, needs to decide where it/they wants/want to be in FCS Football. If the answer is that we want to be in the same tier as the Patriot League, the NEC, and the Pioneer Football League, then we’re good; no changes are needed. If we aspire to compete for FCS National Championships, along with Teams from the top tier conferences, then we need to court/invite at least 2 new Member Schools that are SERIOUS about Football (note - this is a major departure from FUBeAR’s prior thinking); minimum, verifiable budgets for Assistant Coach salary expenses, # of unrestricted scholarships, and recruiting / Full Cost of Attendance expenses need to be established; some type of regular season OOC scheduling index should be developed; and whatever other measures can be taken/enforced to elevate OOC & Playoff performances.

Until this season, FUBeAR believed that the departures of GaSou & Appy were going to be ‘recoverable’ without such measures. The SoCon appeared to be ‘hangin’ in there,’ but we are not. OOC performance, since 2014, for the most part, has been bad, and Playoff advancement, has, at best, been unremarkable. Change is necessary OR be happy being a bottom-tier FCS conference with an occasional good OOC & Playoff win.

[Reign of Terrier]

Try it. Dont let that insecurity get to you.

You're inability to understand the comment is <chef's kiss>

[PaladinFan]

Kinda funny watching RoT & PF, in this thread (and elsewhere), pointing to each others’ diaper & saying the other guy’s is dirtier. Both, along with the SoCon OOC this year STINK, STANK, and STUNK!

PF, though, did hit the right note in a recent post.

The Southern Conference, and its Member Schools, needs to decide where it/they wants/want to be in FCS Football. If the answer is that we want to be in the same tier as the Patriot League, the NEC, and the Pioneer Football League, then we’re good; no changes are needed. If we aspire to compete for FCS National Championships, along with Teams from the top tier conferences, then we need to court/invite at least 2 new Member Schools that are SERIOUS about Football (note - this is a major departure from FUBeAR’s prior thinking); minimum, verifiable budgets for Assistant Coach salary expenses, # of unrestricted scholarships, and recruiting / Full Cost of Attendance expenses need to be established; some type of regular season OOC scheduling index should be developed; and whatever other measures can be taken/enforced to elevate OOC & Playoff performances.

Until this season, FUBeAR believed that the departures of GaSou & Appy were going to be ‘recoverable’ without such measures. The SoCon appeared to be ‘hangin’ in there,’ but we are not. OOC performance, since 2014, for the most part, has been bad, and Playoff advancement, has, at best, been unremarkable. Change is necessary OR be happy being a bottom-tier FCS conference with an occasional good OOC & Playoff win.

I agree. My thinking on this has changed as well.

[SUPharmacist]

I guess the point is it is all relative. Folks can't condemn Furman for not having a "quality" win and ignore they had a top 25 ACC team on the ropes for four quarters.


Hanging with a quality FBS team is admirable, and can help drive the team forward to finish off the win in the future. But when you say Furman has been knocked for not having a "quality" win, you cannot cite that as the reason they are wrong. I will not hold losing to an FBS team against a program, but a loss regardless of how close will get you no credit from me.

[PaladinFan]

Hanging with a quality FBS team is admirable, and can help drive the team forward to finish off the win in the future. But when you say Furman has been knocked for not having a "quality" win, you cannot cite that as the reason they are wrong. I will not hold losing to an FBS team against a program, but a loss regardless of how close will get you no credit from me.

It doesn't matter what I think (or anyone else on this forum). The committee clearly valued it. They went on the record saying they valued it. As the weeks went by, that loss looked more impressive as VT continued to win.

I am not blind to the critiques of Furman's resume. When discussing the bubble, though, every team has warts. You can poke holes at every team. In fact, you could poke pretty sizable holes in half the resumes of the seeded teams as well.

[Mocs123]

I'm totally shocked that both Wofford and Furman lost last week, especially the way Furman lost. The SoCon has to do better OOC then we have been the past few years. Our "best" teams tend to play a lot of non D1's (looking at you Samford) and overall a very poor quality OOC schedule (looking at you Wofford). When we do play a quality OOC schedule, we haven't been winning (looking in the mirror). Chattanooga and The Citadel are the only two schools that played a decent OOC schedule this past year and we both came up empty handed.

As a conference we played four non D1's this year, which I think is too many. I know it was a 12 game year, but playing two money games isn't good for the conference either and we had 4 schools do that. We played some bad FCS teams mostly from the Big South, and one from the OVC. I understand The Citadel playing CSU, a cross town rival, and Wofford and Gardner Webb have a thing. Austin Peay ended up being a quality OOC game for Mercer and ETSU, but I'm not sure if that was by design or accident as APU has historically been really bad. SC State ended up being a (semi) quality opponent for Wofford but again my guess is that was an accident, but at least they are two in-state FCS schools playing each other. I think every SoCon team that feels that they are a contender, which to be honest at this point seems to be everyone but WCU, needs to play one quality FCS opponent every year. Of course we have to go win some of those games too.

I'll say I appreciate The Citadel scheduling good OOC games this past year and Samford played Youngstown another quality opponent. It seems to me that everyone else was trying to schedule cupcakes (even though a few didn't end up being that way like APSU).

[Catamount87]

Our "best" teams tend to play a lot of non D1's (looking at you Samford) and overall a very poor quality OOC schedule (looking at you Wofford). When we do play a quality OOC schedule, we haven't been winning (looking in the mirror). ...

Well WCU didn't do the SoCon any favors with regards to OOC this year. (or any year for that matter) Once again, we had two FBS games scheduled to bolster overall athletic department funding. Why, we can thank our wonderful state legislature and their continual slashing mentality that's hamstringing universities and most state departments alike. Add to it the laws they've passed that force more athletic funding to be from private donors and make facilities funding very difficult. Geez, it was a miracle that they finally approved funds to update the university's 50+ year old steam plant boilers that were being held together by duct tape, paper clips and prayers.

[Professor]

I don't think Furman belonged in the playoffs -- they lost to every team worth a damn they played. Stop rewarding teams based on any other criteria besides quality wins. Based on the seeds and the week one performance, the CAA and Southland probably deserved a 4th team before the SoCon got two, and the BSC probably deserved a 5th.

Stands and applauds. Everyone wants to look at historical performances

[walliver]

The SoCon has changed a lot since ASU and GSU left, but so has FCS in general. The MVFC is basically at the same level as the current Sun Belt and in an ideal world, C-USA should be relegated to FCS and the MVFC moved up.

I was a little upset when the SoCon brought back VMI. I thought adding Mercer was a no-brainer and understood what ETSU brought for basketball. KSU would add to football and JSU usually would. But I don't support going over 9 teams. I just don't think megaconferences are appropriate at FCS level. I someone leaves, I wouldn't hesitate to add KSU.

Going forward, Mercer should improve (they have the most favorable recruiting footprint in the conference), Chattanooga is close, Samford has potential (but will likely need a coaching change). Wofford and Furman were the best of the lot this year, but in neither case were the teams playing at their previous levels. We'll see how Wofford does with Conklin's recruits running the new offense. I don't know what to do with WCU.

For better or worse, I suspect the future of the SoCon is basketball. There is more bang for the buck. The WC-FU football game was poorly attended by traditional standards, but in basketball the game in Spartanburg will likely be sold out and is on ESPN-U while the game in Greenville will be played in Bon Secours Arena instead of Furman's on-campus barn.

To some extent, this was just a down year for the SoCon, and many teams will be improved next year. On the other hand, the balance of power in FCS seems to be shifting towards the West, Upper Midwest, and Southwest where the football markets and recruiting areas are not oversaturated.

[SUPharmacist]

It doesn't matter what I think (or anyone else on this forum). The committee clearly valued it. They went on the record saying they valued it. As the weeks went by, that loss looked more impressive as VT continued to win.

I am not blind to the critiques of Furman's resume. When discussing the bubble, though, every team has warts. You can poke holes at every team. In fact, you could poke pretty sizable holes in half the resumes of the seeded teams as well.

Every bubble team certainly has warts and the committee will use whatever criteria they choose. I would have you note that I made no comment to the worthiness of Furman, just stated that bringing the VT game up when discussing Furman's lack of a quality win makes no sense.

As far as "quality losses," the committee certainly likes them. I think it is bull****, but my opinion doesn't matter in the slightest. But quality losses is probably how SDSU ended up with a seed when they certainly didn't earn it.

[PaladinFan]

The SoCon has changed a lot since ASU and GSU left, but so has FCS in general. The MVFC is basically at the same level as the current Sun Belt and in an ideal world, C-USA should be relegated to FCS and the MVFC moved up.

I was a little upset when the SoCon brought back VMI. I thought adding Mercer was a no-brainer and understood what ETSU brought for basketball. KSU would add to football and JSU usually would. But I don't support going over 9 teams. I just don't think megaconferences are appropriate at FCS level. I someone leaves, I wouldn't hesitate to add KSU.

Going forward, Mercer should improve (they have the most favorable recruiting footprint in the conference), Chattanooga is close, Samford has potential (but will likely need a coaching change). Wofford and Furman were the best of the lot this year, but in neither case were the teams playing at their previous levels. We'll see how Wofford does with Conklin's recruits running the new offense. I don't know what to do with WCU.

For better or worse, I suspect the future of the SoCon is basketball. There is more bang for the buck. The WC-FU football game was poorly attended by traditional standards, but in basketball the game in Spartanburg will likely be sold out and is on ESPN-U while the game in Greenville will be played in Bon Secours Arena instead of Furman's on-campus barn.

To some extent, this was just a down year for the SoCon, and many teams will be improved next year. On the other hand, the balance of power in FCS seems to be shifting towards the West, Upper Midwest, and Southwest where the football markets and recruiting areas are not oversaturated.

I don't think Mercer's location is as beneficial as you might think.

[cx500d]

​RIP

[ElCid]

I don't think Mercer's location is as beneficial as you might think.

Huh? Mercer is in Macon. Macon is a pit, but it has improved a little bit the last 20 years or so. But they are smack dab in the middle of Georgia. It is a great overall location for recruiting. They are by far in the best geographic location of all SOCON schools. Georgia is the mine that keeps on producing.

[FUBeAR]

I don't think Mercer's location is as beneficial as you might think.


Huh? Mercer is in Macon. Macon has improved dramatically the last 7 years or so. But they are smack dab in the middle of Georgia. It is a great overall location for recruiting. They are by far in the best geographic location of all SOCON schools. Georgia is the mine that keeps on producing.
FYP

All in all, downtown Macon & the area surrounding Mercer are pretty darn cool these days. Most of that coolness has evolved in the past 5-7 years. If you haven’t spent significant time there (as FUBeAR most definitely has) since 2015 and beyond, you might not believe this, but Scout’s Honor...it’s true. FUBeAR wouldn’t have his son live in ‘a pit’ for 7 years...unless he really pissed me off! (And it was only for 2 years & just that one time. OK, maybe twice.)

Update: Just one very recent example of how Macon is getting cooler every day. Hard to get much cooler than The Allman Brothers...

https://www.ajc.com/blog/music/capricorn-studios-rising-mercer-music-capricorn/U8CsA9F8JHSHBaEF8Ag8pL/#

“MACON — In the spring of 2016, Gregg Allman stood on the grounds of Mercer University to receive an honorary doctorate of humanities degree, presented to him by former president Jimmy Carter and university president Bill Underwood.

Beforehand, he chatted with Underwood in the green room of Hawkins Arena on Mercer’s Macon campus about a beloved site at 540 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd. — Capricorn Studios.

Perhaps recalling the dim room with its rust-colored soundproof walls and isolation booth covered in roof shingles, Allman gave Underwood some advice.


“Don’t change that room. It’s perfect,” he said. “And get an analog board.”

Three years later, with Allman buried less than 2 miles away at Rose Hill Cemetery (https://www.ajc.com/blog/music/gregg-allman-buried-macon-cher-dickey-betts-among-those-who-mourned-the-southern-rock-icon/yxmwSdMLBwrwHPgn5I5h6N/), the mecca now named Mercer Music at Capricorn is readying its rebirth as a 20,000-square-foot complex owned by the university: two studios, a museum, offices and a 12-room “incubator” for musicians and students to utilize 24 hours a day.



The journey to the revitalization of Capricorn Studios has been, as these things tend to go, lengthy, exhausting and pricey — more than $5 million in total costs for the building and renovations.

”

[BearDownMU]

Mercer's location is perfect for this reason and this reason alone. You are 5 hours in every direction from a metric poop-ton (technical term) of really talented football players. You can recruit all of Georgia, South Carolina, North Florida, western North Carolina, middle to eastern Tennessee, and Alabama. The reason that 5 hour number matters, is because Mama and RayRay an 'nem can take a real easy drive to see BooBoo play every single home game without too much effort. Tons of value in that.

[HootyHoo]

Macon is literally the worst city in the state of Georgia. Too bad the socon couldn't have the real deal of Metro Atlanta...

[Bisonoline]

You're inability to understand the comment is <chef's kiss>

xrolleyesxxcoffeexxrotatehx

[FUBeAR]

Macon is literally the worst city in the state of Georgia.A wise man once said, “It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it.”

I’m pretty sure HootyHoo never had the privilege of meeting that man.

[ElCid]

Macon is literally the worst city in the state of Georgia. Too bad the socon couldn't have the real deal of Metro Atlanta...

Yeah, no. I personally don't like it, but worst? I wouldn't even go that far. One of the worst run? Ok, I'll bye that. Maybe that has changed now, but it was rooted in corruption for a long time and people were fleeing it like rats from a sinking ship. Not sure if the bleeding has stopped yet. We got a lot of the refugees in Houston County when I lived there.

[UpstateBison]

Yeah, no. I personally don't like it, but worst? I wouldn't even go that far. One of the worst run? Ok, I'll bye that. Maybe that has changed now, but it was rooted in corruption for a long time and people were fleeing it like rats from a sinking ship. Not sure if the bleeding has stopped yet. We got a lot of the refugees in Houston County when I lived there.

I vote Macon worst. Furman has the best ability to recruit with downtown Greenville. The only redeeming quality of Macon is Jim Shaw’s Seafood. I think that is the name. I would never have stopped if it was not recommended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElCid]

I vote Macon worst. Furman has the best ability to recruit with downtown Greenville. The only redeeming quality of Macon is Jim Shaw’s Seafood. I think that is the name. I would never have stopped if it was not recommended.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I went there once. It was ok...for Macon. Would go out of business in Charleston.

[HootyHoo]

The Rookery is one of the best places to eat in Macon. Good burgers and great milkshakes.

[FUBeAR]

The Rookery is one of the best places to eat in Macon. Good burgers and great milkshakes.
Amazing how much smarter someone can get in only 6 posts! xlolx

Love the Rookery!

MUrsus67 is moving into a beautiful (way cool) loft just across Cherry Street from The Rookery this coming weekend. Might have to go help him move...and get a burger & a couple of those shakes...or to Parish for great Cajun food...or Macon Beer Company...or Bearfoot Tavern...or Ocmulgee Brewing Company...or maybe all of ‘em and a few of the many other COOL places within easy (and safe...no issues in 7 years) walking distance from there.

[BearDownMU]

Mercer has made a seismic impact on Macon. And Macon has become a much greater city than it used to be. But it's stupid to trash cities where rivals schools are. Most every place has its areas that offer great food, culture, history and entertainment, and also areas you shouldn't be in by yourself after dark. It's, quite frankly, a tired trope to wholesale trash the town a school is in. And it goes on well beyond fan chatter on message boards, because I know for a fact there are SoCon schools that are actually negative recruiting against Macon. Which is think is truly desperate. If people don't think they can pitch a recruit on the merits of their own institution but instead try to get it done by tearing down their competitors? Extremely pathetic.

But I digress... I've been to just about every SoCon city. There are plenty of great things in all of them.

[FUBeAR]

Mercer has made a seismic impact on Macon. And Macon has become a much greater city than it used to be. But it's stupid to trash cities where rivals schools are. Most every place has its areas that offer great food, culture, history and entertainment, and also areas you shouldn't be in by yourself after dark. It's, quite frankly, a tired trope to wholesale trash the town a school is in. And it goes on well beyond fan chatter on message boards, because I know for a fact there are SoCon schools that are actually negative recruiting against Macon. Which is think is truly desperate. If people don't think they can pitch a recruit on the merits of their own institution but instead try to get it done by tearing down their competitors? Extremely pathetic.

But I digress... I've been to just about every SoCon city. There are plenty of great things in all of them.Agree...well...the only great thing I found in Spartanburg was I-85 South (Business), toward Greenville...but it is really great, once you’re on it!

[PaladinFan]

Mercer has made a seismic impact on Macon. And Macon has become a much greater city than it used to be. But it's stupid to trash cities where rivals schools are. Most every place has its areas that offer great food, culture, history and entertainment, and also areas you shouldn't be in by yourself after dark. It's, quite frankly, a tired trope to wholesale trash the town a school is in. And it goes on well beyond fan chatter on message boards, because I know for a fact there are SoCon schools that are actually negative recruiting against Macon. Which is think is truly desperate. If people don't think they can pitch a recruit on the merits of their own institution but instead try to get it done by tearing down their competitors? Extremely pathetic.

But I digress... I've been to just about every SoCon city. There are plenty of great things in all of them.

Macon has its positives. It was held back for years by terrible city leadership. Mercer has invested heavily and both Macon and Mercer need one another to succeed. Most Mercer students I've known like Macon, but rarely go beyond college hill.

Football-wise, it is true that Macon is 12 miles from the geographical center of Georgia (give or take). I don't necessarily think that gives them a huge recruiting advantage.

Most SoCon schools are a relatively short drive to Atlanta and recruit Georgia heavily. Furman is actually closer to areas of Metro-Atlanta than Mercer, so a few miles here or there isn't a big deal. I believe you'll find players from middle Georgia on most SoCon rosters.

I also think think that recruiting the areas south of Macon, where Mercer would theoretically have the greatest access advantage (away from the Metro area) can be difficult. That part of the state is large, rural, and finding the type of student athlete some of these schools are looking to target is more challenging. That area produces some incredible football talent, though.

[FUBeAR]

Furman is actually closer to areas of Metro-Atlanta than Mercer

151.3 < 84.7

I don’t think PF was a Math major.

[ElCid]

151.3 < 84.7

I don’t think PF was a Math major.

Yeah, none of metro Atlanta is closer to Travelers Rest than Macon.

[PaladinFan]

Yeah, none of metro Atlanta is closer to Travelers Rest than Macon.

You'd be surprised at what gets claimed as Metro Atlanta.

Gainesville, for instance, is closer to Greenville than to Macon.

Besides, in the world of college recruiting 20 or 30 miles isn't going to matter.

[ElCid]

You'd be surprised at what gets claimed as Metro Atlanta.

Gainesville, for instance, is closer to Greenville than to Macon.

Besides, in the world of college recruiting 20 or 30 miles isn't going to matter.

Well, you are right about a few miles doesn't matter, but I guess I wouldn't consider Gainesville metro Atlanta. Not that it really matters. Still, we all have the issue of way too many Div I schools in the region. I did a ratio of schools to population once, and the SE is hurting. Makes recruiting harder. Not impossible, but much more challenging.

[Nor Eastern]

If Macon is the worst city in Georiga, Statesboro is the best latrine.

[PaladinFan]

Well, you are right about a few miles doesn't matter, but I guess I wouldn't consider Gainesville metro Atlanta. Not that it really matters. Still, we all have the issue of way too many Div I schools in the region. I did a ratio of schools to population once, and the SE is hurting. Makes recruiting harder. Not impossible, but much more challenging.

The Atlanta MSA is ridiculous. It includes Meriwether County, which is mostly rural farmland.

It has long been my opinion that in the "what happened to the SoCon" question it may be just looking no further than the fact that there are a high concentration of schools in a relatively small geographic area. There are 9 D1 schools just in South Carolina, for instance.

I expect that there are players on every SoCon roster that wouldn't have been D1 players 15 years ago.

[walliver]

Agree...well...the only great thing I found in Spartanburg was I-85 South (Business), toward Greenville...but it is really great, once you’re on it!

You've obviously never been to Ike's.

[TheRevSFA]

Where's that one ****stick who used to say that the SOCON was better than the Southland? One of our conferences went 2-0 last weekend...it wasn't the SOCON.

[Nor Eastern]

Where's that one ****stick who used to say that the SOCON was better than the Southland? One of our conferences went 2-0 last weekend...it wasn't the SOCON.



Well, the SoCon used to be better than the Southland. Used to be. So they weren't wrong.

[PaladinFan]

Well, the SoCon used to be better than the Southland. Used to be. So they weren't wrong.

To be fair, though, when was the last time a SoCon team played a Southland team?

Off the top of my head, it may have been Samford's back to back wins over UCA 4 or 5 years ago. I know Furman played Nicholls in the playoffs in maybe 2005.

[Mocs123]

Chattanooga lost to Sam Houston State 41-36 in the 2016 Playoffs.

[HootyHoo]

The Atlanta MSA is ridiculous. It includes Meriwether County, which is mostly rural farmland.

It has long been my opinion that in the "what happened to the SoCon" question it may be just looking no further than the fact that there are a high concentration of schools in a relatively small geographic area. There are 9 D1 schools just in South Carolina, for instance.

I expect that there are players on every SoCon roster that wouldn't have been D1 players 15 years ago.

Let's be honest, the answer to "what happened to the SOCON?" question is you denied membership to KSU. With the Owls in the conference, you would have had a clear standard bearer that could fly the flag high in the playoffs. It was truly an unfortunate decision that has impacted both institutions negatively.

[BearDownMU]

Let's be honest, the answer to "what happened to the SOCON?" question is you denied membership to KSU. With the Owls in the conference, you would have had a clear standard bearer that could fly the flag high in the playoffs. It was truly an unfortunate decision that has impacted both institutions negatively.

If I'm being honest, you not regularly being in our conference-related chats makes it all worth it. xcoffeex

[cx500d]

If I'm being honest, you not regularly being in our conference-related chats makes it all worth it. xcoffeex

To be fair, he's a late season Novembrist, so would be absent most of the time.

[PaladinFan]

Let's be honest, the answer to "what happened to the SOCON?" question is you denied membership to KSU. With the Owls in the conference, you would have had a clear standard bearer that could fly the flag high in the playoffs. It was truly an unfortunate decision that has impacted both institutions negatively.

Admittedly, I've never seen it reported that Kennesaw was seeking admission to the SoCon. Rumors a number of years ago were that Kennesaw was most interested in largely bypassing the FCS and fast-tracking to the FBS. Maybe that is no longer the case.

Besides, I think that is sort of the point of the discussion we are having. The SoCon is an old conference and has largely been insular. If it wants to expand its football footprint, though, it may need look at expanding beyond its traditional comfort zone and extending invitations to schools it formerly would have avoided.

[Lion1983]

This is getting ridiculous...

The name of both threads about the SoCon and Big South should be (So, crappy conference is better than your crappy conference)

Neither is the MVFC or Big Sky right now.

Southland, yall just have more schools... that's all.

CAA, outside of JMU, it's the same situation as the Southland.

SoCon, Big South and OVC... if you want more "Power" or recognition, step your game up. Schedule OOC games better, do better with facilities (dont tear down half your stadium and put in cheap @$$ looking 1a high school erector set looking bleachers) just do better...

It should be your programs goal to compete with NDSU and JMU not just see if you can make the playoffs.

So let's quit arguing about who's cheap ass car is better than the others.

[HootyHoo]

This is getting ridiculous...

The name of both threads about the SoCon and Big South should be (So, crappy conference is better than your crappy conference)

Neither is the MVFC or Big Sky right now.

Southland, yall just have more schools... that's all.

CAA, outside of JMU, it's the same situation as the Southland.

SoCon, Big South and OVC... if you want more "Power" or recognition, step your game up. Schedule OOC games better, do better with facilities (dont tear down half your stadium and put in cheap @$$ looking 1a high school erector set looking bleachers) just do better...

It should be your programs goal to compete with NDSU and JMU not just see if you can make the playoffs.

So let's quit arguing about who's cheap ass car is better than the others.

You don't have to tell KSU that. There are only two FCS teams that have won 11 games in each of the last three seasons: The Bison and the Owls. Kennesaw State is clearly the best FCS program in the deep south.

[PaladinFan]

This is getting ridiculous...

The name of both threads about the SoCon and Big South should be (So, crappy conference is better than your crappy conference)

Neither is the MVFC or Big Sky right now.

Southland, yall just have more schools... that's all.

CAA, outside of JMU, it's the same situation as the Southland.

SoCon, Big South and OVC... if you want more "Power" or recognition, step your game up. Schedule OOC games better, do better with facilities (dont tear down half your stadium and put in cheap @$$ looking 1a high school erector set looking bleachers) just do better...

It should be your programs goal to compete with NDSU and JMU not just see if you can make the playoffs.

So let's quit arguing about who's cheap ass car is better than the others.

There are two elite teams in FCS football - NDSU and James Madison. All of this other debate, bubble teams, playoff formatting, conference records and rankings - it is just noise.

[Lion1983]

You don't have to tell KSU that. There are only two FCS teams that have won 11 games in each of the last three seasons: The Bison and the Owls. Kennesaw State is clearly the best FCS program in the deep south.

Not for long

[PaladinFan]

Not for long

I'm sure Kennesaw is great and all, but there are several SoCon teams that would have won 10 games against their schedule.

[KSUFAN]

I'm sure Kennesaw is great and all, but there are several SoCon teams that would have won 10 games against their schedule.

And there are a couple teams in the Big South that would have won 10 games against Furman’s schedule as well! What’s your point? Both conference have a lot of work to do if they want to compete with the top conferences!

[PaladinFan]

And there are a couple teams in the Big South that would have won 10 games against Furman’s schedule as well! What’s your point? Both conference have a lot of work to do if they want to compete with the top conferences!

Maybe. When you say "couple" you mean Kennesaw and Monmouth, because Furman beat the Big South's #3 team like a drum, which also lost to the Citadel.

To get to 10 wins, either of those teams would have had to run the table outside of losing to Georgia State and Virginia Tech (remember, a better KSU team lost to a worse Georgia State team last season).

You can argue that KSU and Monmouth are better than Furman and Wofford. I don't think there's an argument that the Big South schedule is tougher than the SoCon's. Would KSU have run the table with Furman's schedule? Maybe. Probably not.

[KSUFAN]

Maybe. When you say "couple" you mean Kennesaw and Monmouth, because Furman beat the Big South's #3 team like a drum, which also lost to the Citadel.

To get to 10 wins, either of those teams would have had to run the table outside of losing to Georgia State and Virginia Tech (remember, a better KSU team lost to a worse Georgia State team last season).

You can argue that KSU and Monmouth are better than Furman and Wofford. I don't think there's an argument that the Big South schedule is tougher than the SoCon's. Would KSU have run the table with Furman's schedule? Maybe. Probably not.

And we will never know if Furman and “several”teams would have won 10 games with Kennesaw’s schedule. Still don’t get your point! Keep harping on your close losses! At the end of the day it’s still a L! Those close losses you keep referring to didn’t help you much at the end of the day. I don’t think our soft schedule will help us at the end of the day. Putting down Kennesaw every chance you get doesn’t make Furman or the socon any better. We all need these southern conferences to get stronger if want respect in the bigger picture.

[HootyHoo]

Not for long

Slow your roll, UNA has a long way to go to compete with the illustrious Kennesaw State University. I truly hope you do find your feet at the FCS level. The Big South could really use the Lions being a legit top 25 program.

[Derby City Duke]

Troll: n. to fish or fish for with a hook and line drawn through the water

<Picture> HootyHoo

[Lion1983]

Slow your roll, UNA has a long way to go to compete with the illustrious Kennesaw State University. I truly hope you do find your feet at the FCS level. The Big South could really use the Lions being a legit top 25 program.

No... will not be long. Yall will not win in Florence next season. Sorry. Get used to being 2nd or 3rd in the Big South.

[BurialGround]

Slow your roll, UNA has a long way to go to compete with the illustrious Kennesaw State University. I truly hope you do find your feet at the FCS level. The Big South could really use the Lions being a legit top 25 program.

Your trolling is just cringey at this point. Relax man, or take it to Twitter or something.

[FUBeAR]

You don't have to tell KSU that. There are only two FCS teams that have won 11 games in each of the last three seasons: The Bison and the Owls. Kennesaw State is clearly the best FCS program in the deep south.

Not for long

Slow your roll, UNA has a long way to go to compete with the illustrious Kennesaw State University. I truly hope you do find your feet at the FCS level. The Big South could really use the Lions being a legit top 25 program.

No... will not be long. Yall will not win in Florence next season. Sorry. Get used to being 2nd or 3rd in the Big South.

I’ve always wondered what it would be like if 2 homeless wino’s got into a drunken slap fight in my front yard.

I don’t wonder that anymore.

[HootyHoo]

No... will not be long. Yall will not win in Florence next season. Sorry. Get used to being 2nd or 3rd in the Big South.

In all seriousness, I do respect your program. You guys won championships in D2. I am hoping that the Lions become KSU's conference rival. Maybe, you too will take part in the time-honored Big South tradition of beating socon teams in the playoffs. xdrunkyx

[Lion1983]

I’ve always wondered what it would be like if 2 homeless wino’s got into a drunken slap fight in my front yard.

I don’t wonder that anymore.

Wino's? You don't have to be so hateful...

[uni88]

Wino's? You don't have to be so hateful...

FUBeAR was being generous. It would have been more accurate to compare HooterHoo to a tweaker.

[FUBeAR]

Wino's? You don't have to be so hateful...
Your’re right. I meant to say, “habitually overserved economically disadvantaged gentlemen.”