Is the FCS Boring?

[Preferred Walk-On]

To determine the validity of Sader87's proclamation below, here is a poll. NDSU fans please DO NOT VOTE...I would like this to be as "scientific" as possible to determine if Sader87 is correct that it really is 99%. Enjoy!


To the 99% of FCS fans who aren't NDSU fans.....IT"S BORING....go FBS already, you're embarrassing yourselves

Just FYI:
1. I do not think the FCS is boring and would say this even if NDSU did not win the title (but I have been following FCS long before NDSU transitioned and became successful at this level).
2. I think the quality of football is equivalent to that of over half of the FBS.
3. I do not think the FCS is as down or as disparate as some on this forum would want you to believe.
4. I do subscribe to the theory that fans should want their teams to improve vs. hope good teams leave.
5. My response to anyone who thinks NDSU should go to FBS would be "Why doesn't your team go FBS?", especially if it is really that simple.

[Outsider1]

No, I don't think the FCS is boring. Yes, NDSU has a dynasty right now, but dynasties happen at various levels and in various sports. As I have already posted, the SLC itself has undergone some major shifts that are still in process. We are watching how that will settle. I am sure there are other conferences experiencing some shifts, as well as just good old rivalries that are still out there. Right now I kinda think the FCS has a little more variety than the FBS; at least the Power 5 conferences.....

[Redbird 4th & short]

Voted no .. in fact, I think the 24 team tournament format makes for better entertainment value than G5 bowl games overall. As I have posted before, I have no issue with NDSU playnig FCS. In fact, I hope they stay MVFC ... it would be disappointing to me if they left and then we won a Natty .. I'll still enjoy it, but it won't be same as overtaking them while they are still FCS.

[344Johnson]

It's been boring since NDSU followed up the 2013-14 season with another title in 2015.

[Redbird 4th & short]

It's been boring since NDSU followed up the 2013-14 season with another title in 2015.

oh, so now we're blaming my Redbirds !!!

We didn't lose, the game was just 1 min 38 seconds too long !

xshakefistx

[Laker]

D2 and MSU-Mankato fan here. No, FCS isn't boring. They are the only D1 football level that has a real playoff.

I try to see a couple of FCS games every season besides going to all of the MSU-Mankato games. The FCS level isn't just about who the champion is, it is about all of the teams and all of the conferences. I love watching football and enjoy the college level much more than the pros.

[Bisonator]

I can tell one thing from this poll. Bison fans do not understand or read the initial post very well. xlolx

[caribbeanhen]

I voted yes but not because I think it's boring, I am a diehard..... it's the younger generation that is just not that into sports as we once were..... if you cannot get students to Alabama games no way they will want to go see the majority of FCS games

[walliver]

There is a strange attitude among some on this board that playoffs are somehow the only part of football that matters. There were a lot of exciting and entertaining games played last year by teams that did not enter the playoffs.

If the question was rephrased as "Are the FCS playoffs boring?", I would be more equivocal as I believe 24 teams is too many and we end up with a lot of poorly attended mismatches.

[Ivytalk]

I voted yes but not because I think it's boring, I am a diehard..... it's the younger generation that is just not that into sports as we once were..... if you cannot get students to Alabama games no way they will want to go see the majority of FCS games
I agree. To increase student attendance, take away their phones!xsmiley_wix

[uni88]

I can tell one thing from this poll. Bison fans do not understand or read the initial post very well. xlolx

xnodx - Reading Comprehension might need to be a required course at NDSU

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29933&stc=1

[Preferred Walk-On]

There is a strange attitude among some on this board that playoffs are somehow the only part of football that matters. There were a lot of exciting and entertaining games played last year by teams that did not enter the playoffs.

If the question was rephrased as "Are the FCS playoffs boring?", I would be more equivocal as I believe 24 teams is too many and we end up with a lot of poorly attended mismatches.

There were some amazingly good regular season games this past season, with lots of intrigue, and many (dare I say most) of these games lived up to the hype. I would also contend that the FCS playoffs were not boring...Colgate vs. James Madison, Weber State vs. Maine, Jacksonville State vs. East Tennessee State, Kennesaw State vs. Wofford, Eastern Washington vs. California-Davis, California Davis vs. Northern Iowa, Northern Iowa vs. Lamar. All one score games where the outcome was in doubt until very late in the game.

This poll question was meant for the FCS in general (regular and postseason), and it is still meant that way. There is plenty of intrigue throughout the season, and this includes teams that do not participate in the playoffs (Dartmouth vs. Princeton).

Also, this Bison fan never takes a championship for granted and books nothing until after the final horn sounds in the semifinal game. The only thing preplanned is to buy tickets in August, not because I expect the Bison to be there, but because they have a good chance, and it is nice to know that tickets are in hand and will not have to be hunted for IF the Bison make it.

[Preferred Walk-On]

xnodx - Reading Comprehension might need to be a required course at NDSU

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29933&stc=1

There's no newer version of that book than 2006? Although I would contend that there shouldn't need to be either.

- - - Updated - - -


xnodx - Reading Comprehension might need to be a required course at NDSU

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29933&stc=1

There's no newer version of that book than 2006? Although I would contend that there shouldn't need to be either.

[Winterborn]

I like college football. NDSU winning or losing doesn't not change my opinion on the sport overall.

[grizband]

So far, at least 8 (that I could easily identify) of the 24 "No" votes are Bison fans...xcoffeex

[PantherRob82]

Not any more boring than Clemson and Alabama.

[Mattymc727]

Gee this thread looks familiar....

[Schism55]

Another boring thread?? Was this really necessary?
3 words for fans of teams bitching, Get ****ing Better

[grizband]

Another boring thread?? Was this really necessary?
3 words for fans of teams bitching, Get ****ing Better
Thread started by an NDSU fan... xcoolx

[Sader87]

Agree with one of the postahs above....if the poll asked "Are the FCS playoffs boring?" I'd answer yes for the reasons I've stated ad infinitum in the past. The FCS-level itself is very interesting with a mix of different types of schools throughout the country whose teams are mostly made up of players who are truly representative of their student bodies.

[TheKingpin28]

Agree with one of the postahs above....if the poll asked "Are the FCS playoffs boring?" I'd answer yes for the reasons I've stated ad infinitum in the past. The FCS-level itself is very interesting with a mix of different types of schools throughout the country whose teams are mostly made up of players who are truly representative of their student bodies.The playoffs are usually the best. This is the first year since 13 that the playoffs were not up to par. Sure you have Duquense bitch slapping Towson but if you honestly believe outside of 13 since 2010 is boring, then you are in the minute minority.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[DFW HOYA]

The subdivision is not boring per se. Eastern football, however, is.

Start with this photo:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/bucknell_404.jpg

[Go...gate]

Not boring at all.

[Iridebikes]

FCS football is not boring. Competitive leagues and teams steping up to play good non-conference games keep it interesting. Add to that a real play off system and it is, in my opinion better then FBS. A playoff game where the winner gets another game has a lot more significance then getting to go to some bowl, somewhere, that may or may not be competitive and means absolutely nothing. Unless your a top four team in FBS the post season has no meaning at all

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

No, its college football with a legit playoff bracket. Its the best thing in football including the NFL ****

[Redbird 4th & short]

So far, at least 8 (that I could easily identify) of the 24 "No" votes are Bison fans...xcoffeex
how can you tell this with polls ... are you AGS admin ?

so after removing those 8, it is 8 No's out of at most 32 accepted ballots ... so 25% so far ... just a smidge under 99% .. oh man, the suspense is killing me. I think this one is going down to the wire !!!!!!

xcoffeex

[Hammersmith]

how can you tell this with polls ... are you AGS admin ?

so after removing those 8, it is 8 No's out of at most 32 accepted ballots ... so 25% so far ... just a smidge under 99% .. oh man, the suspense is killing me. I think this one is going down to the wire !!!!!!

xcoffeex

Umm, when you look at the poll results, you see the names of who voted and how. Not hard to spot the Bison fans. By my count, 2 of the 8 yes votes, and 9 of the 32 no votes, are from Bison fans. So the numbers should be 23-6, or just about an 80/20 split for not boring, which is the same split even if you include the Bison fans.

[Panther88]

The subdivision is not boring per se. Eastern football, however, is.

Start with this photo:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/bucknell_404.jpg

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Such a huge contrast to what some of us are accustomed to, ~48K-55K, depending for one game:

https://news.thehbcuapp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/statefairbands-696x316.png

[POD Knows]

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

Such a huge contrast to what some of us are accustomed to, ~48K-55K, depending for one game:

https://news.thehbcuapp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/statefairbands-696x316.pngYea, that pretty much says it all, were those fans bored at the game in the pic you showed? :D

[POD Knows]

Umm, when you look at the poll results, you see the names of who voted and how. Not hard to spot the Bison fans. By my count, 2 of the 8 yes votes, and 9 of the 32 no votes, are from Bison fans. So the numbers should be 23-6, or just about an 80/20 split for not boring, which is the same split even if you include the Bison fans.
I counted 10 Bison fans on the no side, I threw Alpha Griz in the mix. xnodx

[Redbird 4th & short]

Umm, when you look at the poll results, you see the names of who voted and how. Not hard to spot the Bison fans. By my count, 2 of the 8 yes votes, and 9 of the 32 no votes, are from Bison fans. So the numbers should be 23-6, or just about an 80/20 split for not boring, which is the same split even if you include the Bison fans.
oh, got it ... but I had to click one of the numbers .. thanks.

[Panther88]

Yea, that pretty much says it all, were those fans bored at the game in the pic you showed? :D

Why don’t you ask the 48-55K+ who attend annually. xlolx

Interesting truthism: there are more people posting on ags than attending fcs playoff games (avgd) lol xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx .

[Preferred Walk-On]

so after removing those 8, it is 8 No's out of at most 32 accepted ballots ... so 25% so far ... just a smidge under 99% .. oh man, the suspense is killing me. I think this one is going down to the wire !!!!!!
xcoffeex

In fairness to Sader87, this is a only small sample size of fans that are probably biased towards the FCS due to their posting/voting/just being members on AGS. Probably could not poll all teams' fans either, as the fact that they attend FCS games probably biases this as well and would not meet the 99% requirement. However, it could probably reach 99% if we could somehow poll the entire country. Therefore, Sader's statement could be true if it read:

"To the 99% of people who aren't FCS fans...IT'S BORING...go FBS already, you're embarrassing yourselves."

There are probably many other ways in which the statement above could be modified; however, I am not sure how NDSU going FBS would remedy this situation. :D

[semobison]

I opened the thread, voted, then read the part where NDSU fans shouldn't vote. Should have been stated in the thread title that Bison fans were excluded!:D

[Redbird 4th & short]

In fairness to Sader87, this is a only small sample size of fans that are probably biased towards the FCS due to their posting/voting/just being members on AGS. Probably could not poll all teams' fans either, as the fact that they attend FCS games probably biases this as well and would not meet the 99% requirement. However, it could probably reach 99% if we could somehow poll the entire country. Therefore, Sader's statement could be true if it read:

"To the 99% of people who aren't FCS fans...IT'S BORING...go FBS already, you're embarrassing yourselves."

There are probably many other ways in which the statement above could be modified; however, I am not sure how NDSU going FBS would remedy this situation. :D
so when someone makes that kind of statement, the presumption has to be that the people he is speaking for are/were FCS fans to begin with. Because if they weren't fans to begin with, what is point of counting them as bored with FCS because NDSU won 7 of 8 Nattys ?? Thye weren;t interest before or after NDSU dominated FCS.

But ... I'll flip that logic and say this, with no data to back it up .. I'll bet FCS has more casual "playoff fans/interest" directly because of NDSU .. so i think NDSU winning Natty's draws more interest than it loses if the net result were something we could tabulate ... time for another poll ???

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I counted 10 Bison fans on the no side, I threw Alpha Griz in the mix. xnodx

You shut your mouth when you are talking to me!


Thanks

[andthehomeofthe-BIZON-]

I opened the thread, voted, then read the part where NDSU fans shouldn't vote. Should have been stated in the thread title that Bison fans were excluded!:D

I did the exact same thing.....

[POD Knows]

You shut your mouth when you are talking to me!


ThanksGod I wish NDSU was as bad as the Griz, it would take the pressure off. It hurts to be good, I feel it every day.

[Sader87]

I wondah how much NDSU will beat JMU in Frisco next year...by 14, 21??? I can hardly wait.

[TheKingpin28]

I wondah how much NDSU will beat JMU in Frisco next year...by 14, 21??? I can hardly wait.I wondah how much Sader87 will complain about NDSU in the FCS next year...will it be 14, 21 times??? I can hardly wait.

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[Bisonator]

I wondah how much NDSU will beat JMU in Frisco next year...by 14, 21??? I can hardly wait.
What's the over/under on Holy Cross wins next year? 4 or 5 as usual?? I bet you can hardly wait to get pounded by Harvard again huh??? Must be so exciting!:D

[ccd494]

This is why I am opposed to playoffs at both the FBS and FCS levels. The playoffs, or title game, or sole national champion swallows up all the oxygen in the room. They are marketed as the only thing that matters. All year the discussion topics are "Will team X make the playoffs?" "Will team Y get a seed?" "Can anyone but NDSU win the title?"

Every game that is played is only analyzed in the context of the playoffs and the national title race. Every year there are dozens of fantastic games that don't have any bearing on the playoffs or national championship, so they are either ignored or downplayed.

I think we'd all enjoy life more if every team played their 12 game schedule and then packed up the helmets and shoulder pads.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I wondah how much NDSU will beat JMU in Frisco next year...by 14, 21??? I can hardly wait.
It's not that you don't have a point about NDSU being the odds on favorite .. but its the conclusion or resolution you reach as a result, that most people don't agree with .. certainly way more than the 1% you predicted would agree with you.

But it's not like they have an unfair advantage by any means ... I mean come on, they're in middle of nowhere and it is arctic cold there in winter .. they win because they have better system and develop players that execute that system better than anyone else. I think I've proven they do not have notably better players coming out of HS, much less going into the NFL.

IMO, why would we want them to leave .. they raise the bar for everyone .. they clearly did it for MVFC as evidenced by our playoff results (excluding NDSU games) being far better than any other conference since 2010 season. I'm all for anything that raises the bar ... and again, do they have some unfair advantage that other programs have no chance of competing against ?? And I want to beat them, not get rid of them.

But that said, I will bet on the field over NDSU to win Natty in 2019. JMU is possibly a contender given they have a lot coming back, but they also lost their HC ... and so do SDSU, ISUr to name a few others that could get most directly in the way of NDSU repeating, given how much NDSU is losing from the field and sidelines.

Going to send another donation to keepratings and find out when he plans to release his first publication .. great service and site tabulating lost starters and production by each position group on offense and defense.

Check it out and donate to encourage his efforts .. I have zero affiliation to him or this site.

http://www.keepratings.net/#

[Bisonator]

This is why I am opposed to playoffs at both the FBS and FCS levels. The playoffs, or title game, or sole national champion swallows up all the oxygen in the room. They are marketed as the only thing that matters. All year the discussion topics are "Will team X make the playoffs?" "Will team Y get a seed?" "Can anyone but NDSU win the title?"

Every game that is played is only analyzed in the context of the playoffs and the national title race. Every year there are dozens of fantastic games that don't have any bearing on the playoffs or national championship, so they are either ignored or downplayed.

I think we'd all enjoy life more if every team played their 12 game schedule and then packed up the helmets and shoulder pads.
This is BS. Maybe everyone should just get a participation trophy? If you're bored watching your team play football then maybe you are not a football fan.

[Professor Chaos]

This is why I am opposed to playoffs at both the FBS and FCS levels. The playoffs, or title game, or sole national champion swallows up all the oxygen in the room. They are marketed as the only thing that matters. All year the discussion topics are "Will team X make the playoffs?" "Will team Y get a seed?" "Can anyone but NDSU win the title?"

Every game that is played is only analyzed in the context of the playoffs and the national title race. Every year there are dozens of fantastic games that don't have any bearing on the playoffs or national championship, so they are either ignored or downplayed.

I think we'd all enjoy life more if every team played their 12 game schedule and then packed up the helmets and shoulder pads.
You're trying to convince us you weren't exhilarated by Maine's run to the semis this year???

As Dan Hawkins would say "then go play intramurals brother".

EDIT: Wait... actually don't cuz intramurals have playoffs too. Go play... ummm…. ok sports are out cuz literally every level of every other sport has a playoff... maybe gin rummy???

[Preferred Walk-On]

I opened the thread, voted, then read the part where NDSU fans shouldn't vote. Should have been stated in the thread title that Bison fans were excluded!:D

Yep. I understand the order of execution.

Only at 305 posts, so I am still a rookie and learning. The thought had crossed my mind, so I should have went with my gut. Oh well. I think minus Bison fans, it still will not reach 99% bored.

[Preferred Walk-On]

This is why I am opposed to playoffs at both the FBS and FCS levels. The playoffs, or title game, or sole national champion swallows up all the oxygen in the room. They are marketed as the only thing that matters. All year the discussion topics are "Will team X make the playoffs?" "Will team Y get a seed?" "Can anyone but NDSU win the title?"

Every game that is played is only analyzed in the context of the playoffs and the national title race. Every year there are dozens of fantastic games that don't have any bearing on the playoffs or national championship, so they are either ignored or downplayed.

I think we'd all enjoy life more if every team played their 12 game schedule and then packed up the helmets and shoulder pads.

I have always thought that the FBS should have a 24 team playoff, not unlike the FCS. And as teams lose in the playoffs, they get slotted into bowl games. Earlier exit = earlier bowl game. Thus, one could still have playoffs AND bowl games. The schedule for this would be a nightmare as it currently sits with conference championship games, but hell, eliminate those, because after 12 games, it is usually pretty clear who the conference champion is (as evidenced by outcomes of conference championship games over the recent past).

This clearly would not work in the FCS, because of the lack of interest, but I don't think ending the season after 12 games is going to spark additional interest either. But I do agree that there are dozens of fantastic games each year that do not have any bearing on the playoffs or national championship. At least teams are eliminated from playoff (playin) consideration by choice (Ivy) and not by whether or not they are P5 or G5. Furthermore, every conference is guaranteed at least one participant, so that has to add some excitement to the conference schedule in contending for that top spot, beyond just being called "Conference Champion" and hanging that banner.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm absolutely of the belief that the playoffs have become oversaturated and boring. 16 teams were far better and in truth even that was too many. The physical nature of football is vastly different than other sports so more is not a good thing imo. I'd be in favor of eliminating the at-large bids all together and simply get the top 6-10 teams in the playoffs and be done with it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You're trying to convince us you weren't exhilarated by Maine's run to the semis this year???

As Dan Hawkins would say "then go play intramurals brother".

EDIT: Wait... actually don't cuz intramurals have playoffs too. Go play... ummm…. ok sports are out cuz literally every level of every other sport has a playoff... maybe gin rummy???

I think to most Maine fans winning the CAA title and crushing UNH were the highlights of the season. Criss-crossing the country for a couple playoff games that ended in a thud was a bit glass half full/half empty. You get the ESPN exposure but your young promising coach leaves for Gopherland.

For some I think the playoffs have gotten to the point where the 95% of the field know they have know chance. The other 4% who aren't Bison fans are just living in denial. In college basketball regional championships and Final 4 appearances carry a ton of weight despite not being the ultimate goal. Even Sweet 16's and Elite 8's sound good to those not named Duke, UNC and Kentucky. In football, success in the playoffs is rather relative outside of a Finals appearance.

[Professor Chaos]

I think to most Maine fans winning the CAA title and crushing UNH were the highlights of the season. Criss-crossing the country for a couple playoff games that ended in a thud was a bit glass half full/half empty. You get the ESPN exposure but your young promising coach leaves for Gopherland.

For some I think the playoffs have gotten to the point where the 95% of the field know they have know chance. The other 4% who aren't Bison fans are just living in denial. In college basketball regional championships and Final 4 appearances carry a ton of weight despite not being the ultimate goal. Even Sweet 16's and Elite 8's sound good to those not named Duke, UNC and Kentucky. In football, success in the playoffs is rather relative outside of a Finals appearances.
I think every NCAA basketball tournament analogy applies to the FCS as well, just on a smaller scale. I'll turn back the clock to before NDSU was winning championships in 2010. They beat SDSU in the regular season which was big but nowhere near what going to Bozeman and beating Montana St in the playoffs was. Just like the NCAA tournament where most of the teams have no shot at a title those FCS playoff teams have goals that are focused on a lower scale. Do you think Duquesne would've preferred to just end their season as NEC champs and not get a chance to beat Towson in the playoffs? I don't. Do you think UIW and Lamar would've rather not made the playoffs instead of making it and promptly exiting? I don't. Do you think that Colgate is more proud of their season due to beating JMU and reaching the quarterfinals? I do.

Maybe my mentality is off from the consesus but there's a lot more to the FCS playoffs than winning the championship (just like there's a lot more to the NCAA basketball tournament than making the Final Four or winning the championship). I will always be a proponent of postseason tournament play at all levels of all sports because it provides closure. You play until you get beat... no excuses and no "what ifs" (of course there are still some excuses and what-ifs but they're in the context of the competition itself). That's sports and competition in it's purest form. If you're the last team/person standing you feel great but that doesn't mean the rest of the competitors wasted their time and shouldn't be proud of their achievements.

[semobison]

I hate to even bring this up but if the Ivies participated, especially this year, there would have been increased interest.:D

[UNAPride]

I think all divisions have some exciting games and many that are....not so much.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think every NCAA basketball tournament analogy applies to the FCS as well, just on a smaller scale. I'll turn back the clock to before NDSU was winning championships in 2010. They beat SDSU in the regular season which was big but nowhere near what going to Bozeman and beating Montana St in the playoffs was. Just like the NCAA tournament where most of the teams have no shot at a title those FCS playoff teams have goals that are focused on a lower scale. Do you think Duquesne would've preferred to just end their season as NEC champs and not get a chance to beat Towson in the playoffs? I don't. Do you think UIW and Lamar would've rather not made the playoffs instead of making it and promptly exiting? I don't. Do you think that Colgate is more proud of their season due to beating JMU and reaching the quarterfinals? I do.

Maybe my mentality is off from the consesus but there's a lot more to the FCS playoffs than winning the championship (just like there's a lot more to the NCAA basketball tournament than making the Final Four or winning the championship). I will always be a proponent of postseason tournament play at all levels of all sports because it provides closure. You play until you get beat... no excuses and no "what ifs" (of course there are still some excuses and what-ifs but they're in the context of the competition itself). That's sports and competition in it's purest form. If you're the last team/person standing you feel great but that doesn't mean the rest of the competitors wasted their time and shouldn't be proud of their achievements.

Basketball and football are nothing alike. The difference in the physical nature of the two make the context of their respective playoffs vastly different. 3/4 of the field in the NCAA Tournament is gone after 4 days. You play a game, day off, play again. In football it takes basically 2+ weeks to get to that point. Basketball games are over in less than 2 hours so when a game sucks it's a short process to move on to the next one. When a team gets physically whipped in hoops they're no wheeling guys off the court on EZ-Go's. In an 8 team playoff Colgate would have been in and sent to NDSU in the opening round. Being one of the 8 choosen in hopefully an objective nature would be one helluva accomplishment. Much more so than beating a disorganized JMU team who had no chance to compete for a title because their staff was out the door just to end up in the same spot anyway.

My mentality is definitely that the playoffs singular goal is to crown a fair champion. In football where you have to use a 1 game single elimination format the regular season must be for weeding out. That's where you state your case if you're worthy of being one of the select few deserving of chance to compete. Lehigh had zero business being in the playoffs in 2017, likewise, Lafayette 2013. The fact UNH's and SBU's players had to risk injury against those terrible teams in the playoffs is wrong.

[ccd494]

This is BS. Maybe everyone should just get a participation trophy? If you're bored watching your team play football then maybe you are not a football fan.

Uhh, no, under my system no one gets a trophy.

It was cool Maine went to the semis, but after the first game in Orono the next two were scheduled on a week's notice in rural Utah and Washington. In the cold. Other than a few parents, it's not like there was any chance that Maine fans were going to be able to attend.

Regardless, I see some value in universities sponsoring football and men's basketball teams that chew up the majority of the school's athletic budget, but only in as much as they drive applications and enrollment. Particularly at the FCS level, I'm not sure how much the playoffs contribute to that. At the risk of being VERY unpopular in these parts, I think that more benefit is created in schools sponsoring sports that are traditionally underserved, as part of the public service mission of postsecondary educational institutions.

[Professor Chaos]

Basketball and football are nothing alike. The difference in the physical nature of the two make the context of their respective playoffs vastly different. 3/4 of the field in the NCAA Tournament is gone after 4 days. You play a game, day off, play again. In football it takes basically 2+ weeks to get to that point. Basketball games are over in less than 2 hours so when a game sucks it's a short process to move on to the next one. When a team gets physically whipped in hoops they're no wheeling guys off the court on EZ-Go's. In an 8 team playoff Colgate would have been in and sent to NDSU in the opening round. Being one of the 8 choosen in hopefully an objective nature would be one helluva accomplishment. Much more so than beating a disorganized JMU team who had no chance to compete for a title because their staff was out the door just to end up in the same spot anyway.

My mentality is definitely that the playoffs singular goal is to crown a fair champion. In football where you have to use a 1 game single elimination format the regular season must be for weeding out. That's where you state your case if you're worthy of being one of the select few deserving of chance to compete. Lehigh had zero business being in the playoffs in 2017, likewise, Lafayette 2013. The fact UNH's and SBU's players had to risk injury against those terrible teams in the playoffs is wrong.
Welp, agree to disagree I guess.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Uhh, no, under my system no one gets a trophy.

It was cool Maine went to the semis, but after the first game in Orono the next two were scheduled on a week's notice in rural Utah and Washington. In the cold. Other than a few parents, it's not like there was any chance that Maine fans were going to be able to attend.

Regardless, I see some value in universities sponsoring football and men's basketball teams that chew up the majority of the school's athletic budget, but only in as much as they drive applications and enrollment. Particularly at the FCS level, I'm not sure how much the playoffs contribute to that. At the risk of being VERY unpopular in these parts, I think that more benefit is created in schools sponsoring sports that are traditionally underserved, as part of the public service mission of postsecondary educational institutions.
I don't think the deciding factor on this is whether or not it is practical/affordable for a teams fans be able to attend a playoff game. 2014 ISUr had about 200 travel to Cheney, WA in quarters and maybe 300+ at UNH in semi's, then got 3,800+ to Frisco for Natty ... but every week, we had watch parties organized all over the Normal, IL and Chicago, IL, and in spots across the country, especially for the Natty. PLayoffs created a lot of goodwill and vibes for ISU .. and now we want to make another run like 2014. It may or may not happen .. but isn't this competition and wanting to win the nature of all sports ??

But the notion that all sports can/should have playoffs except FBS and FCS, just makes no sense at all. Every sport and activity costs money .. surely each school can decide what they can afford and are willing to invest in improving their campus experience and extra-curricular activities. How about band for example ... someone get me the rate of return on supporting a marching band ? Oh wait, it loses money .. let's cancel it !!! Hell, cancel all the arts .. they cost money. Clubs ... gone !!! Anything that doesn't produce revenue and net a profit ... gone !!

Then good luck attracting students, giving them something else to do associated with their school/campus, developing well rounded human beings, much less giving them a reason to come back to campus after the graduate .. and you know, maybe donate money to their school to maintain/improve the campus experience to attract more students and alumni.

[Derby City Duke]

I voted no. I think there is excitement both in the regular season and the playoffs, though maybe for different reasons. The regular season has the conference title races, rivalry games, and the occasional FCS over FBS result. Our game against Richmond is huge regardless of how bad the Spatters are in any given year and we like to see how much of their stadium we can take over every other year.

The playoffs provide (at least after the 1st two rounds, usually) inter-sectional match-ups that you're not going to see during the season that often. How exciting was the JMU/Weber State game in '17? EWU/UCD game this year. Even with all the TOs, the SDSU/JMU semi was a 4-point game with a minute to go in the 1st half.

To me the regular season is a dog sled race to make the playoffs, with natural drama built into the schedule -- the playoffs are measuring stick games. I re-watch the 2 JMU/NDSU games and the JMU/Weber game about once every couple of months, because the football is so good in them.

I like both and I like FCS football. I don't care if JMU goes FBS or stays FCS, but while we're FCS work to compete at the highest level, not just participate.

[ccd494]

I don't think the deciding factor on this is whether or not it is practical/affordable for a teams fans be able to attend a playoff game. 2014 ISUr had about 200 travel to Cheney, WA in quarters and maybe 300+ at UNH in semi's, then got 3,800+ to Frisco for Natty ... but every week, we had watch parties organized all over the Normal, IL and Chicago, IL, and in spots across the country, especially for the Natty. PLayoffs created a lot of goodwill and vibes for ISU .. and now we want to make another run like 2014. It may or may not happen .. but isn't this competition and wanting to win the nature of all sports ??

But the notion that all sports can/should have playoffs except FBS and FCS, just makes no sense at all. Every sport and activity costs money .. surely each school can decide what they can afford and are willing to invest in improving their campus experience and extra-curricular activities. How about band for example ... someone get me the rate of return on supporting a marching band ? Oh wait, it loses money .. let's cancel it !!! Hell, cancel all the arts .. they cost money. Clubs ... gone !!! Anything that doesn't produce revenue and net a profit ... gone !!

Then good luck attracting students, giving them something else to do associated with their school/campus, developing well rounded human beings, much less giving them a reason to come back to campus after the graduate .. and you know, maybe donate money to their school to maintain/improve the campus experience to attract more students and alumni.

Where did I say other sports should have tournaments or playoffs? And where did I say that universities should only support things that make money? I think universities and other public institutions should ONLY support things that lose money. Clearly there is a market for sub-NFL football. Let someone go make money on it without tethering it to school.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Where did I say other sports should have tournaments or playoffs? And where did I say that universities should only support things that make money? I think universities and other public institutions should ONLY support things that lose money. Clearly there is a market for sub-NFL football. Let someone go make money on it without tethering it to school.

As long as there's public/private universities you'll have an interesting dynamic. A private school which has no ties to the taxpayers can field/fund whatever they wish. As a result they could easily tether athletics without any backlash. Could really change enrollment statistics throughout the country.

I'd love to see Notre Dame or Harvard offer "Intercollegiate Football" as a major...

[cx500d]

Uhh, no, under my system no one gets a trophy.

It was cool Maine went to the semis, but after the first game in Orono the next two were scheduled on a week's notice in rural Utah and Washington. In the cold. Other than a few parents, it's not like there was any chance that Maine fans were going to be able to attend.

Regardless, I see some value in universities sponsoring football and men's basketball teams that chew up the majority of the school's athletic budget, but only in as much as they drive applications and enrollment. Particularly at the FCS level, I'm not sure how much the playoffs contribute to that. At the risk of being VERY unpopular in these parts, I think that more benefit is created in schools sponsoring sports that are traditionally underserved, as part of the public service mission of postsecondary educational institutions.


Let me get this straight....Playing in a suburb of Salt Lake City (largest city in Utah), and a suburb of Spokane (2nd largest city in Washington) is considered rural? Compared to what? Certainly not compared to Bangor or Portland. And cold? Oh my, have the people of Maine evidently became pussies since I lived there.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Where did I say other sports should have tournaments or playoffs? And where did I say that universities should only support things that make money? I think universities and other public institutions should ONLY support things that lose money. Clearly there is a market for sub-NFL football. Let someone go make money on it without tethering it to school.

well you said a few things, but I admit I purposely extrapolated from there into where I think that mindset leads. Didn't intend to infer you said it .. I should have made that more clear.

But you did say only FCS should not have playoffs (thought you included FBS, but you didn't). You then went on to say more of the schools investment in sports should go towards under-served sports. I noticed you didn't say or include arts, just other sports.

Curious how you think there would be more benefits by moving funds to under-served sports. And who exactly reaps what benefits in comparison to investing in football or basketball relative to demand based on participation and fan support ?

quote below:

Particularly at the FCS level, I'm not sure how much the playoffs contribute to that. At the risk of being VERY unpopular in these parts, I think that more benefit is created in schools sponsoring sports that are traditionally underserved, as part of the public service mission of postsecondary educational institutions.

[cx500d]

well you said a few things, but I admit I purposely extrapolated from there into where I think that mindset leads. Didn't intend to infer you said it .. I should have made that more clear.

But you did say only FCS should not have playoffs (thought you included FBS, but you didn't). You then went on to say more of the schools investment in sports should go towards under-served sports. I noticed you didn't say or include arts, just other sports.

Curious how you think there would be more benefits by moving funds to under-served sports. And who exactly reaps what benefits in comparison to investing in football or basketball relative to demand based on participation and fan support ?

quote below:

Particularly at the FCS level, I'm not sure how much the playoffs contribute to that. At the risk of being VERY unpopular in these parts, I think that more benefit is created in schools sponsoring sports that are traditionally underserved, as part of the public service mission of postsecondary educational institutions.

Well, one benefit is it might help make us into an Olympic powerhouse.

[Redbird 4th & short]

I think to most Maine fans winning the CAA title and crushing UNH were the highlights of the season. Criss-crossing the country for a couple playoff games that ended in a thud was a bit glass half full/half empty. You get the ESPN exposure but your young promising coach leaves for Gopherland.

For some I think the playoffs have gotten to the point where the 95% of the field know they have know chance. The other 4% who aren't Bison fans are just living in denial. In college basketball regional championships and Final 4 appearances carry a ton of weight despite not being the ultimate goal. Even Sweet 16's and Elite 8's sound good to those not named Duke, UNC and Kentucky. In football, success in the playoffs is rather relative outside of a Finals appearance.
as a Natty finalist in 2014 (Jan 2015), I can assure you Redbird Nation does not view 2014 as a failure .. we failed to win the Natty, but the season and entire experience was nothing but phenominal. Only one team can win the Championship every year .. you make it sound like none of the effort is worth it unless you win the Natty .. like it is all or nothing. I assure you it is not. Each game matters, qualifying for playoffs matters, winning or at least competing against the other best teams is fun, win or lose .. every round is that much more special if you are good enough. But the idea that thiss is all futile if you don't have a realistic chance of winning the Natty ... I just don't get it. I am embarrased to quote Miley Cyrus, but I have a daughter and happen to like this one song ... It's the Climb .. sports, school, jobs, family ... Its about the journey.

Next year, Redbirds are planning how we're going to over-take Bison. We may succeed, we may not. Going to hope and try either way. Welcome to sports, welcome to life. And I hope Bison stay in FCS long enough so we can knock them off their mantel .. boring, uh .. hell no. Frustrating in the moment ... sure. But trying our best sounds like a lot of fun to me.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Well, one benefit is it might help make us into an Olympic powerhouse.

You cannot be an Olympic powerhouse if you don't accept the medals.

[Silenoz]

Let me get this straight....Playing in a suburb of Salt Lake City (largest city in Utah), and a suburb of Spokane (2nd largest city in Washington) is considered rural? Compared to what? Certainly not compared to Bangor or Portland. And cold? Oh my, have the people of Maine evidently became pussies since I lived there.

Is that what we're calling Cheney now? Could have fooled me.

[Reign of Terrier]

I didn't read this thread, but here's a better poll design. 4 options:

I am a Bison fan and no

I am a Bison fan and yes

I am not a Bison fan and no

I am not a Bison fan and yes



I also think it doesn't hurt to be more specific. I think the FCS regular season is just fine. It's when the playoffs come around that it gets anticlimactic, un-novel, and thus boring.

[Reign of Terrier]

I think every NCAA basketball tournament analogy applies to the FCS as well, just on a smaller scale. I'll turn back the clock to before NDSU was winning championships in 2010. They beat SDSU in the regular season which was big but nowhere near what going to Bozeman and beating Montana St in the playoffs was. Just like the NCAA tournament where most of the teams have no shot at a title those FCS playoff teams have goals that are focused on a lower scale. Do you think Duquesne would've preferred to just end their season as NEC champs and not get a chance to beat Towson in the playoffs? I don't. Do you think UIW and Lamar would've rather not made the playoffs instead of making it and promptly exiting? I don't. Do you think that Colgate is more proud of their season due to beating JMU and reaching the quarterfinals? I do.

Maybe my mentality is off from the consesus but there's a lot more to the FCS playoffs than winning the championship (just like there's a lot more to the NCAA basketball tournament than making the Final Four or winning the championship). I will always be a proponent of postseason tournament play at all levels of all sports because it provides closure. You play until you get beat... no excuses and no "what ifs" (of course there are still some excuses and what-ifs but they're in the context of the competition itself). That's sports and competition in it's purest form. If you're the last team/person standing you feel great but that doesn't mean the rest of the competitors wasted their time and shouldn't be proud of their achievements.

Wofford has a better chance of winning an NCAA tournament game, heck even going to the sweet 16 in basketball than NDSU's chances of not making it at least back to the semis next year.

In basketball, there's literally too many teams who are reasonably competitive that any one has a realistic expectation of going the distance more than 2 years in a row. The less athletic teams deep down know they can't and won't go the distance. That's why arbitrary points like "sweet 16" and "elite 8" and "final four" are so special in basketball. That's not a thing in FCS football because there's the facade that the only thing that matters is the championship (meanwhile at FBS the G5 teams are content with going 9-3 and winning a so-so bowl game).

Only about 2/3 of the FCS have made the playoffs. NDSU has won the championship 7 times while all but 25 other teams have made the playoffs less than that. There's a diminishing sense of efficacy IMO. Now granted, I bet the scaling is similar with the NCAA tournament, but the difference is the volume of teams that make the tournament. Maybe Colgate and the programs with the lesser expectations (though I doubt Colgate has diminished expectations, given their history) benefit from being able to run with the bigger teams, but as a follower of a top tier program that hasn't won a championship (which is pretty common), the playoffs have gotten really boring and it's basically because of NDSU. Wofford took a playoff hiatus for a couple years between 2013-2015. Before the dominance of NDSU, the playoffs weren't boring for me (I didn't have a dog in the fight and didn't really pay attention but then felt sheer boredom when they won it in 2014, watching casually). But the last two years I really didn't feel totally heartbroken when we lost in the playoffs because I knew "doesn't matter, NDSU will win it." Especially this year.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I didn't read this thread, but here's a better poll design. 4 options:

I am a Bison fan and no

I am a Bison fan and yes

I am not a Bison fan and no

I am not a Bison fan and yes



I also think it doesn't hurt to be more specific. I think the FCS regular season is just fine. It's when the playoffs come around that it gets anticlimactic, un-novel, and thus boring.

......YOUSE FOR-SAW..........DUQUESNE BEAT TOWSON/S.E.MIZZ STATE OVERAH STONY BROOK?........NOT MANY DID.....JES' READ DUH OVC THREADS....ALL SEASON.........AWK!

[BEAR]

The regular season isn't boring.

The Bison made the playoffs boring. xlolx

Can't blame them. They earned it. xthumbsupx

[Preferred Walk-On]

I didn't read this thread, but here's a better poll design. 4 options:

I am a Bison fan and no

I am a Bison fan and yes

I am not a Bison fan and no

I am not a Bison fan and yes



I also think it doesn't hurt to be more specific. I think the FCS regular season is just fine. It's when the playoffs come around that it gets anticlimactic, un-novel, and thus boring.

Hindsight is always 20/20 (regarding poll format). However, the playoffs were anything but anticlimactic or boring. The Bison games may have been that to many, but most of the other games were not, and I enjoyed watching all of them. I would also argue that the championship game was not boring, even if you think that it was dominated by one team and the outcome was never in doubt, which I do not. This was really just a poll to determine whether or not 99% of people think the FCS is boring. I know this forum is full of hyperbole, and that is some of what makes it fun...hence the generic, non-specific poll to demonstrate that those that think it is boring are in the minority, not the 99% majority (hyperbole), at least in this forum.

[DFW HOYA]

Wofford has a better chance of winning an NCAA tournament game, heck even going to the sweet 16 in basketball than NDSU's chances of not making it at least back to the semis next year.


In basketball, there's literally too many teams who are reasonably competitive that any one has a realistic expectation of going the distance more than 2 years in a row. The less athletic teams deep down know they can't and won't go the distance. That's why arbitrary points like "sweet 16" and "elite 8" and "final four" are so special in basketball. That's not a thing in FCS football because there's the facade that the only thing that matters is the championship (meanwhile at FBS the G5 teams are content with going 9-3 and winning a so-so bowl game).


Only about 2/3 of the FCS have made the playoffs.


Teams that have never made the playoffs (in order of when they joined I-AA in brackets):


Austin Peay St. (1978)
Drake (1978)
Bucknell (1978)
Texas Southern (1978)
VMI (1978)
Prairie View A&M (1980)
Alabama State (1982)
Brown (1982)
Columbia (1982)
Cornell (1982)
Dartmouth (1982)
Harvard (1982)
Pennsylvania (1982)
Princeton (1982)
Yale (1982)
Davidson (1993)
Georgetown (1993)
Valparaiso (1993)
Arkansas-Pine Bluff (1998)
Jacksonville (1998)
Alabama A&M (2000)
Gardner-Webb (2000)
Bryant (2008)
Campbell (2008)
North Carolina Central (2011)
Presbyterian (2011)
Abilene Christian (2013)
Houston Baptist (2013)
Mercer (2013)
Stetson (2013)

[UpstateBison]

Wofford has a better chance of winning an NCAA tournament game, heck even going to the sweet 16 in basketball than NDSU's chances of not making it at least back to the semis next year.

In basketball, there's literally too many teams who are reasonably competitive that any one has a realistic expectation of going the distance more than 2 years in a row. The less athletic teams deep down know they can't and won't go the distance. That's why arbitrary points like "sweet 16" and "elite 8" and "final four" are so special in basketball. That's not a thing in FCS football because there's the facade that the only thing that matters is the championship (meanwhile at FBS the G5 teams are content with going 9-3 and winning a so-so bowl game).

Only about 2/3 of the FCS have made the playoffs. NDSU has won the championship 7 times while all but 25 other teams have made the playoffs less than that. There's a diminishing sense of efficacy IMO. Now granted, I bet the scaling is similar with the NCAA tournament, but the difference is the volume of teams that make the tournament. Maybe Colgate and the programs with the lesser expectations (though I doubt Colgate has diminished expectations, given their history) benefit from being able to run with the bigger teams, but as a follower of a top tier program that hasn't won a championship (which is pretty common), the playoffs have gotten really boring and it's basically because of NDSU. Wofford took a playoff hiatus for a couple years between 2013-2015. Before the dominance of NDSU, the playoffs weren't boring for me (I didn't have a dog in the fight and didn't really pay attention but then felt sheer boredom when they won it in 2014, watching casually). But the last two years I really didn't feel totally heartbroken when we lost in the playoffs because I knew "doesn't matter, NDSU will win it." Especially this year.

The playoffs will be more interesting when the SoCon stops being a mediocre conference. 10 years ago when you beat App or Ga Southern, you knew you were elite. You had a chance. It has been 6 years since a SoCon team has been relevant. I hope that changes soon for the betterment of the FCS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KPSUL]

The subdivision is not boring per se. Eastern football, however, is.

Start with this photo:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/bucknell_404.jpg

If the Thread was titled "Is the Patriot League other than Colgate boring", than based on this photo the answer is a resounding YES. But the Ivy League produced some surprises this year with Princeton on top and Dartmouth a close second - Harvard no longer a perennial favorite. It was a wild year in the CAA with virtually no team finishing where predicted and upsets occurring weekly. For years CAA coaches have said any team can beat any other conference team; in 2018 that finally came true. If not boring, the playoffs were at least predictable, with home teams and higher seeds winning all but 3 of the 23 playoff games.