Why UConn should probably drop to FCS

[ST_Lawson]

Obviously it's been talked about before, but this is just more fuel for the fire. I think it makes a ton of sense for UConn to try to go CAA for FCS football and Big East for other sports...so that probably means it won't happen.

But it's fun to talk about in the offseason.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/1/18/18187320/uconn-football-aac-fcs

[TheKingpin28]

I posted this in another thread and I doubt it would work.


I doubt they would ever lower themselves to the FCS level. Too much pride involved. Plus, if they do go to the FCS, where do they go?

CAA: 10 Full (12 Football) - Highly Doubtful as they are beyond full.
NEC: 10 Full (7 Football) - Doubtful as they only allow 40 scholarships and the whole balancing out Title IX thing.
PL: 10 Full (7 Football) - Highly Doubtful as they have a no redshirt rule which means they might have to go the whole "gray shirt" idea.
PFL: 0 Full (10 Football) - NGTH as it is a non-scholarship league and Title IX would be a nightmare cutting 85 scholies overnight.

Only way I see it happening is if they either went PL (if they could get into that club) or Indy and hope that the NEC, PL, CAA, and surrounding areas want to play ball.


Killing football means also killing 85 scholies on the women's side too. Look what GFCC (school north of NDSU) did to their baseball team. They cut that AND women's hockey otherwise Title IX would have said no to that. It's not just football they would be cutting, it's most likely 2-3 extra sports as well on the women's side.

[JMUNJ08]

Maybe we can do a swap? JMU to AAC and UCONN to CAA + Big East for other sports. Sounds too easy....

[WestCoastAggie]

Maybe we can do a swap? JMU to AAC and UCONN to CAA + Big East for other sports. Sounds too easy....

Y'all expenses seem to be in the same realm. Could JMU handle the expenses of being in a conference like that?

[ElCid]

I think it says a lot, that state as populous as Conn, can't have its flagship university be successful in football.

[DFW HOYA]

PL: 10 Full (7 Football) - Highly Doubtful as they have a no redshirt rule which means they might have to go the whole "gray shirt" idea.

Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

[Go Green]

Remind me again, why didn't UConn stick with the Big East in basketball? Were they not invited? Or did they prefer the AAC?

[DFW HOYA]

Remind me again, why didn't UConn stick with the Big East in basketball? Were they not invited? Or did they prefer the AAC?

1. Not invited after the divorce.

2. Wanted to get the money they got in the Big East-AAC settlement.

3. Won the 2014 title and saw the AAC as a short term stop before the ACC invite arrived.

4. Rutgers and Louisville were short-timers in the AAC--UConn never got an offer. Football attendance dropped by half.

5. They applied to the Big 12. Crickets ensued.

[JSUSoutherner]

Y'all expenses seem to be in the same realm. Could JSU handle the expenses of being in a conference like that?

JSU? Hell no.

JMU? Yeah, probably.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think it says a lot, that state as populous as Conn, can't have its flagship university be successful in football.

It boggles my mind that as wealthy a population base as CT has the state can't finance their athletics properly. The issue of supporting a legit FBS program first popped up when UConn went to the Fiesta Bowl a number of years ago and they sold a total of 5 or so thousand of their 15-20k allotment. It was their first major bowl game!!!

At this point I don't think the Big East is going to help basketball much, if at all. Both conferences top to bottom are basically equals imo. The Huskies aren't packing the XL Center for Creighton, DePaul, Butler and Georgetown (unless they improve) either. Villanova, Providence and St. John's are the current Big East schools that would move the needle some. UConn fans have always been sort of fickle. Even when they killing it under Calhoun their attendance was up and down. That's why they've been able to play several games at the 9k seat Gampel Pavilion.

Clearly something needs to be done. A revival of the Yankee Conference would be pretty cool! It would definitely strengthen FCS football in the Northeast. I tend to believe it would create some more local interest due to the state rivalries.

What does UMass's balance sheet look like these days? I can't really research anything right now...

[DFW HOYA]

The Huskies aren't packing the XL Center for Creighton, DePaul, Butler and Georgetown (unless they improve) either.

January 23, 2016
Georgetown at Connecticut
XL Center, Hartford
Att: 15,564

[clenz]

Y'all expenses seem to be in the same realm. Could JSU handle the expenses of being in a conference like that?They'd just take more money from the students.

What's another 10m when you're already taking 40m?

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[Go Green]

Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

The Ivies are surviving.

Of course, our stadiums (stadia) are on campus.

- - - Updated - - -


1. Not invited after the divorce.

2. Wanted to get the money they got in the Big East-AAC settlement.

3. Won the 2014 title and saw the AAC as a short term stop before the ACC invite arrived.

4. Rutgers and Louisville were short-timers in the AAC--UConn never got an offer. Football attendance dropped by half.

5. They applied to the Big 12. Crickets ensued.

Many thanks!

:)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

January 23, 2016
Georgetown at Connecticut
XL Center, Hartford
Att: 15,564

That's 3 years ago. UConn was less than 2 years removed from a national title then. They were still tournament fixtures at that point. It's a different world now in the Nutmeg State.

To give context, that Georgetown game was on a Saturday. 5 days later 13,242 showed up for Cincinnati. In the middle of February 15,564 showed up for a Thursday night game against SMU. The Temple game at the XL Center on 1/5/16 (Tuesday night) had an announced crowd of 11,319.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

Didn't the Rent come about because the Patriots opted to stay in Foxborough instead of moving to Harford? The state of CT then opted to build a scaled down stadium for the Huskies move to FBS?

[UNHWildcat18]

Uconn will drop football and move all sports to Big East before moving football to FCS. They will not build a 15-20k stadium on campus for FCS nor will they play at their current place for FCS. Even if they wanted to go FCS they would only go CAA.

None of this will happen though, its drop football or keep failing at FBS

[ST_Lawson]

I posted this in another thread and I doubt it would work.
Sorry, I must have missed that.


Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

True, but UConn averages around what JMU averages for their home games actually and had (reported) 20k+ for their game against Rhode Island this year. If they stay close to that attendance-wise, then it wouldn't be too bad. Still a larger stadium than everyone else, but not too bad compared to JMU or Delaware.

[WestCoastAggie]

JSU? Hell no.

JMU? Yeah, probably.

Fixed.

[Go Green]

And some of the comments in the SB article are really dissing Georgetown football...

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Big East isn't the same league these days with small, private, mostly Catholic schools with not much in common with a large public institution. The UConn fans who don't care about football want back into a basketball oriented league. UConn never supported FCS/I-AA football before going FBS, usually averaged under 10K fans. Now after having a taste of big time football, they'd never support FCS Football. And frankly they've invested too much money in the stadium and indoor practice facility to drop football.

[Son of Eli]

UConn’s historic football rivals are mainly in the FCS (e.g. Yale, New Hampshire, Maine, Delaware, Rhode Island, Villanova, Colgate). UMass, Army and Boston College could still be played as road games nearby. That would make for a pretty compelling schedule from a fan’s perspective.

Plus attendance wouldn’t drop all that much. Yale-UConn used to always draw over 40,000 and still would, at least until the nostalgia towards the renewal of this old rivalry wore off.

I had many friends who were UConn season ticket holders. They have all cancelled without exception. The program is beyond being on life support. It’s DOA. Time for UConn Football to get back to its roots so they can concentrate on basketball. Despite a promising start the whole move to FBS has proven to be a costly mistake.

[32counter]

Big East isn't the same league these days with small, private, mostly Catholic schools with not much in common with a large public institution. The UConn fans who don't care about football want back into a basketball oriented league. UConn never supported FCS/I-AA football before going FBS, usually averaged under 10K fans. Now after having a taste of big time football, they'd never support FCS Football. And frankly they've invested too much money in the stadium and indoor practice facility to drop football.

Pursuant to a lease agreement with the State, UConn plays all its home football games at Rentschler Field.UConn doesn’t own the stadium.Money from the left State pocket is transferred to right State pocket.Funny money.The State of CT finances are in very rough shape.

Holy Cross and Bryant have nice indoor practice facilities.Holy Cross facility is much nicer than UConn’s.

Any top High School player in the State of CT does not enroll at UConn.They effectively recruit high level FCS players.Games vs Nova,URI,Maine are 1 score games which could go either way and are decided in late 4th quarter.

[Tribal]

UConn should've stayed in the CAA

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[Laker]

UConn should've stayed in the CAA

Bring back Vermont football. Bring UConn & UMass back to FCS. Bring back BU & Northeastern football. Bring back the Yankee Conference.

[DFW HOYA]

Big East isn't the same league these days with small, private, mostly Catholic schools with not much in common with a large public institution.

Two Big East schools have over 20,000 students.

[Schism55]

Bring back Vermont football. Bring UConn & UMass back to FCS. Bring back BU & Northeastern football. Bring back the Yankee Conference.
I like this idea a lot, make it so! xthumbsupx

[aceinthehole]

Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

100% Correct. The State of Connecticut built that facility for UConn's FBS team.

The odds of UConn to FCS is the same as Central Conn. to FBS = 0%

[aceinthehole]

I think it says a lot, that state as populous as Conn, can't have its flagship university be successful in football.

Why - that's no different than the rest of New England and New York.

Maine - FCS
Vermont - dropped football in 1974
New Hampshire - FCS
Massachusetts - reclass to FBS in 2011
Rhode Island - FCS
Connecticut - reclass to FBS in 2001
New York - FBS (Buffalo since 1999) / FCS (UAlbany & SBU)

This region has historically been dominated by private colleges, specifically the Ivy League.

In the pre-WW III era they dominant programs in the region were: Dartmouth (New Hampshire), Harvard (Massachusetts), Yale (Connecticut), Brown, (Rhode Island), Columbia, Cornell and Fordham (New York).

Even today the P6 teams are private - Boston College (Massachusetts) and Syracuse (New York).

This is not like the South and Midwest U.S. dominated by huge State flagship universities.

[aceinthehole]

1. Not invited after the divorce.

2. Wanted to get the money they got in the Big East-AAC settlement.

3. Won the 2014 title and saw the AAC as a short term stop before the ACC invite arrived.

4. Rutgers and Louisville were short-timers in the AAC--UConn never got an offer. Football attendance dropped by half.

5. They applied to the Big 12. Crickets ensued.

This is the #1 reason UConn's deficits are so high today. They had P5 expenses, expecting P5 revenues. When Louisville got the "last" ACC invite, the bottom fell out in Storrs.

They are in a death spiral right now, and their athletic program will be the equivalent of Nevada in just a few more years. They will shed costs in upcoming season, and settle into a depressing life in the American alongside Temple and East Carolina. Highlights of their schedule will be UCF and USF for the immediate future.

[uni88]

This is the #1 reason UConn's deficits are so high today. They had P5 expenses, expecting P5 revenues. When Louisville got the "last" ACC invite, the bottom fell out in Storrs.

They are in a death spiral right now, and their athletic program will be the equivalent of Nevada in just a few more years. They will shed costs in upcoming season, and settle into a depressing life in the American alongside Temple and East Carolina. Highlights of their schedule will be UCF and USF for the immediate future.

That's not fair to Nevada.

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[aceinthehole]

It boggles my mind that as wealthy a population base as CT has the state can't finance their athletics properly. The issue of supporting a legit FBS program first popped up when UConn went to the Fiesta Bowl a number of years ago and they sold a total of 5 or so thousand of their 15-20k allotment. It was their first major bowl game!!!

At this point I don't think the Big East is going to help basketball much, if at all. Both conferences top to bottom are basically equals imo. The Huskies aren't packing the XL Center for Creighton, DePaul, Butler and Georgetown (unless they improve) either. Villanova, Providence and St. John's are the current Big East schools that would move the needle some. UConn fans have always been sort of fickle. Even when they killing it under Calhoun their attendance was up and down. That's why they've been able to play several games at the 9k seat Gampel Pavilion.

Clearly something needs to be done. A revival of the Yankee Conference would be pretty cool! It would definitely strengthen FCS football in the Northeast. I tend to believe it would create some more local interest due to the state rivalries.

What does UMass's balance sheet look like these days? I can't really research anything right now...

It is actually quite simple - the administration, fans, and legislators are stupid and arrogant.

UConn (Calhoun) had built arguably a Top-5 NATIONAL men's basketball program in his two decades in Storrs. Geno did a similar thing building the #1 women's hoops program in the country. Connecticut became synonymous with excellence in college basketball, period.

Then the aforementioned arrogant UConn fans, administrators, and State legislators expected that would roll over to football, ice hockey and the entire athletic program. Sure, Big East football and a Fiesta Bowl bid clouded their reality and established a mirage that it was was possible for UConn become in a decade what its "peers" did in the previous century - Syracuse, North Carolina, Virgina, etc..

Once the AAC conference schedule wasn't filled with "name" opponents in basketball and football, and both teams took a nosedive in competitiveness on the field, the veil was lifted.

Uconn fans are front-runners and pretentious people that want to be "part of the club." They have no desire to associate with the like of Cincinnati, Temple, and East Carolina, although realistically those are more likely their true "peers".

Now that the buyout $$$ dried up and they have no shot at the ACC, the depressing reality is starting to set in for Husky fans ;)

[aceinthehole]

Didn't the Rent come about because the Patriots opted to stay in Foxborough instead of moving to Harford? The state of CT then opted to build a scaled down stadium for the Huskies move to FBS?

Yes. The original plan was a billion dollar NFL-quality stadium in Downtown Hartford for the Patriots and UConn.

After Kraft exposed Gov. Rowland as a fool, the State put together "Plan B" - a basic, 40k-seat college football venue across the river in East Hartford for a fraction of the cost.

[aceinthehole]

Big East isn't the same league these days with small, private, mostly Catholic schools with not much in common with a large public institution. The UConn fans who don't care about football want back into a basketball oriented league. UConn never supported FCS/I-AA football before going FBS, usually averaged under 10K fans. Now after having a taste of big time football, they'd never support FCS Football. And frankly they've invested too much money in the stadium and indoor practice facility to drop football.

100% right on.

[Laker]

I like this idea a lot, make it so! xthumbsupx

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/59052263.jpg

[Little Stevie]

Rentschler Stadium is awesome.
From vendors/concessions to sightlines to walking around,etc..
It is seat for seat, $ for $ as good as anything on the east coast. Maybe in the country.
Never heard a RI fan say it was not beautiful.
UConn has same issue as URI and UMass-only one way out of this. Start winning.

[katss07]

Villanova, I take it, is happy that they turned down their Big East invite back in the day. “Elevate the program”...bull crap! Grass ain’t always greener!

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova, I take it, is happy that they turned down their Big East invite back in the day. “Elevate the program”...bull crap! Grass ain’t always greener!

Trivia question: Four schools were invited to upgrade their program to join the Big East in football, but UConn was the only one that did. Name the other three.

[aceinthehole]

Trivia question: Four schools were invited to upgrade their program to join the Big East in football, but UConn was the only one that did. Name the other three.

‘Nova
Georgetown
St. John’s

[katss07]

Trivia question: Four schools were invited to upgrade their program to join the Big East in football, but UConn was the only one that did. Name the other three.
Well didn’t they try to expand in the 90s (when Connecticut joined) and in the mid 2000s? I know there was a point when TCU almost joined. I’ll say the other three schools were Villanova, TCU and Temple. Just random guesses.

[UNHWildcat18]

I don't see UCONN football lasting more than a few years
Should just drop football and try to get that mens bball money every year. I just don't see Umass and Uconn doing anything but losing games and money at the FBS level.

I am also mad because none of those schools will schedule UNH. UNH would bring more fans to a BC/Umass(at gillette again)/Harvard game than most other FCS and FBS teams. Yet due to team success and "coaching friendships" they won't schedule us.

[iBOsbu]

UConn should wave the white flag in football and save their basketball. P5 dream invite ain't coming. Rutgers going to B10 was probably the last lucky one from northeast region. UConn along with Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, Army and couple of FBS ready FCS programs like JMU and Delaware would make a nice 8 teams northeast regional conference. Enjoy the football and local rivalry and forget about toilet bowls. Add VCU and URI for basketball. Should get 3-4 bids to the dance every year. Minimizes travel costs. Fans would be more excited facing these teams than Tulane or Tulsa.

[grizband]

UConn should wave the white flag in football and save their basketball. P5 dream invite ain't coming. Rutgers going to B10 was probably the last lucky one from northeast region. UConn along with Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, Army and couple of FBS ready FCS programs like JMU and Delaware would make a nice 8 teams northeast regional conference. Enjoy the football and local rivalry and forget about toilet bowls. Add VCU and URI for basketball. Should get 3-4 bids to the dance every year. Minimizes travel costs. Fans would be more excited facing these teams than Tulane or Tulsa.
I can't imagine any service academy ever dropping to FCS football.

[iBOsbu]

I can't imagine any service academy ever dropping to FCS football.

Now that I read it again, I wasn't clear. I meant white flag to P5 dream and making a regional FBS conference, not dropping to FCS. I can't imagine any of those programs dropping to FCS. You mentioned service academy, which reminded me that I forgot about Navy. There's also ECU. With Navy and ECU, there is no need for adding JMU and Delaware from FCS. Navy and Army can keep their all sports in Patriot. Nice regional public school FBS conference.

FB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, Army and Navy
BB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, VCU and URI

Makes too much sense to ever happen in dysfunctional FBS world.

[Little Stevie]

Every football scholarship at UConn is endowed??
That huge portion does not cost tax payers a dime??
UConn FB just got another $1M from a donor.
wouldn't the donors have to be convinced to redirect their endowment??
Think that would be very difficult.
People who complain don't go to games or donate anyways.

[uni88]

Now that I read it again, I wasn't clear. I meant white flag to P5 dream and making a regional FBS conference, not dropping to FCS. I can't imagine any of those programs dropping to FCS. You mentioned service academy, which reminded me that I forgot about Navy. There's also ECU. With Navy and ECU, there is no need for adding JMU and Delaware from FCS. Navy and Army can keep their all sports in Patriot. Nice regional public school FBS conference.

FB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, Army and Navy
BB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, VCU and URI

Makes too much sense to ever happen in dysfunctional FBS world.Would this increase Buffalo's travel costs?

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[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Now that I read it again, I wasn't clear. I meant white flag to P5 dream and making a regional FBS conference, not dropping to FCS. I can't imagine any of those programs dropping to FCS. You mentioned service academy, which reminded me that I forgot about Navy. There's also ECU. With Navy and ECU, there is no need for adding JMU and Delaware from FCS. Navy and Army can keep their all sports in Patriot. Nice regional public school FBS conference.

FB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, Army and Navy
BB: UConn, Umass, Buffalo, Temple, ODU, ECU, VCU and URI

Makes too much sense to ever happen in dysfunctional FBS world.

You simply can't have a 7 team FBS conference. It would be impossible to fill out OOC schedules that need 6 games. As a Temple alum I'd rather Temple drop football then venture into that mess. The current AAC is fine imo. The problem is UConn.

[dunbar]

I'd love America East to offer Northeastern, Delaware, and Towson invites in lieu of the inevitable CAA collapse (thanks, JMU). They then could take control of the CAA Football charter, re-brand as the Yankee Conference, keep Rhode Island and Villanova as football members, and once UMass and UConn come to their senses and realize FBS isn't working, pick them up too.

Maine
New Hampshire
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Albany
Stony Brook
Delaware
Villanova
Towson

It'll never happen, but it'd be a hell of a ten team league.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross had a cup of coffee in the Yankee Conference in the early 1970s....not many remember or know that.

[ElCid]

I'd love America East to offer Northeastern, Delaware, and Towson invites in lieu of the inevitable CAA collapse (thanks, JMU). They then could take control of the CAA Football charter, re-brand as the Yankee Conference, keep Rhode Island and Villanova as football members, and once UMass and UConn come to their senses and realize FBS isn't working, pick them up too.

Maine
New Hampshire
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Albany
Stony Brook
Delaware
Villanova
Towson

It'll never happen, but it'd be a hell of a ten team league.

And we could take Richmond and W&M back...and throw Elon to the Big South.xlolx

[Go...gate]

UConn should've stayed in the CAA

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Yes.

- - - Updated - - -


Holy Cross had a cup of coffee in the Yankee Conference in the early 1970s....not many remember or know that.

This old guy remembers. Why didn't HC stay?

[Sader87]

Yes.

- - - Updated - - -



This old guy remembers. Why didn't HC stay?

From "Thy Honored Name" history of HC written by Father K: https://books.google.com/books?id=C04IVksMcN0C&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=holy+cross+yankee+conference&source=bl&ots=oqaSr-_rNi&sig=ACfU3U1R0dtjnCgYI3geu56o272qZ90EFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigjdyQp4DgAhVmQt8KHfN4AK8Q6AEwAXoECAgQA Q#v=onepage&q=holy%20cross%20yankee%20conference&f=false

[The Boogie Down]

Holy Cross had a cup of coffee in the Yankee Conference in the early 1970s....not many remember or know that.



This old guy remembers. Why didn't HC stay?


From "Thy Honored Name" history of HC written by Father K: https://books.google.com/books?id=C04IVksMcN0C&pg=PA469&lpg=PA469&dq=holy+cross+yankee+conference&source=bl&ots=oqaSr-_rNi&sig=ACfU3U1R0dtjnCgYI3geu56o272qZ90EFg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigjdyQp4DgAhVmQt8KHfN4AK8Q6AEwAXoECAgQA Q#v=onepage&q=holy%20cross%20yankee%20conference&f=false


So even in the early 1970s, being friends with the Ivies was more important than anything else. More important than being good at football, even more important than joining the Big East. Wow, what a bitch-assed mentality.

[Sader87]

Mmmm....it's a tough call. Fr Brooks really did an overall wonderful job as President of HC...his belief that college athletics (at the highest level) was ruining education at those schools was probably a bit overwrought.

As for playing the Ivies....the belief at HC then/now is "you are the company you keep."

What many alumni then (fewer now) wanted was to basically "cut the baby in half" i.e keep playing Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale and Brown et. al. in football but play basketball in the Big East.

[Go...gate]

So even in the early 1970s, being friends with the Ivies was more important than anything else. More important than being good at football, even more important than joining the Big East. Wow, what a bitch-assed mentality.

It was much the same thing at Colgate, which is the most-played non-conference opponent of the Ivy League.

[Go...gate]

Mmmm....it's a tough call. Fr Brooks really did an overall wonderful job as President of HC...his belief that college athletics (at the highest level) was ruining education at those schools was probably a bit overwrought.

As for playing the Ivies....the belief at HC then/now is "you are the company you keep."

What many alumni then (fewer now) wanted was to basically "cut the baby in half" i.e keep playing Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale and Brown et. al. in football but play basketball in the Big East.

Again, not much different at Colgate among many alumni, including myself. However, the arbitrary refusal of most Ivies to play us anymore (save Cornell, Dartmouth and Yale) has led to Colgate seeking non-conference games with FCS schools outside the Ivy but having a strong academic/athletic mix. Examples are private schools like Furman and Richmond and public schools like William & Mary, Cal Poly, Albany, Stony Brook and now, New Hampshire and Maine. An annual game with one of the service academies also serves this purpose. Would be nice if we could play Rutgers again, too. That was a fine old series dating back to 1933.

[The Boogie Down]

As for playing the Ivies....the belief at HC then/now is "you are the company you keep."

Quite different from Fordham thinking. Even back in the '30s Fordham didn't want to waste Polo Ground dates on any Ivies. In fact, the term "Ivy League" itself was supposedly coined by a Fordham man and used disparagingly.

Here's the story as I've pieced together....

Back in 1933 the Herald Tribune's Stanley Woodward (1895-1965) came up w/the term "Ivy" to describe the bigger schools who'd feast on smaller "Little Three" cupcakes, like his own Amherst. In this case, while specifically talking about Princeton, I think he used Ivy schools or the Ivies to describe old, established, monied bullies beating up on their smaller, weaker, slightly younger and slightly less monied brothers.

The word caught on but it was his Herald Tribune coworker, Caswell Adams (1907-1957), who took things a step further by labeling all those bigger schools as an "Ivy League" in 1937. Adams, a Fordham grad, also changed the meaning somewhat. Aside from writing for the Herald Tribune, he also did PR work for Lou Little's Columbia Lions and saw first hand the talent disparity between what was going on up at Baker Field and back at the Polo Grounds. So when comparing Princeton and Yale to Fordham (who at the time was undefeated and ranked 3rd in the country) Adams brushed the formers aside as "only Ivy League."

So, kinda funny how to an Amherst guy in 1933 "Ivy" meant old bullies, but to a Fordham guy in 1937 it meant old and no longer relevant.

Fast forward 50 years and most Fordham alumni wanted no part of joining an Ivy-Light league. While this was mostly basketball fans speaking out, whenever football goes through a "good" run, like the Clawson years and then again w/Moorhead, there's always a feel hovering over the fans that Fordham is too good for contests against Ivy-Lights and the Ivy League itself. Not that anyone thinks Fordham is capable of ever-ever-ever being a top ranked FBS again, but rumors of joining the CAA in football (especially when the team is enjoying a good spell) and abandoning Ivy/Ivy Light competition are always just below the surface.



What many alumni then (fewer now) wanted was to basically "cut the baby in half" i.e keep playing Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale and Brown et. al. in football but play basketball in the Big East.

Does "fewer now" mean today's HC alumni are more content w/being in the PL for all sports, or are they more wanting to bring back the type of hoops program HC used to feature?

[Laker]

So, kinda funny how to an Amherst guy in 1933 "Ivy" meant old bullies, but to a Fordham guy in 1937 it meant old and no longer relevant.


I absolutely love reading about historical stuff like this. Thanks for sharing!

[The Boogie Down]

I absolutely love reading about historical stuff like this. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the kind words! I think history is the main (only?) positive to come from an old fashioned PL thread hijack-lol

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1. Not invited after the divorce.

2. Wanted to get the money they got in the Big East-AAC settlement.

3. Won the 2014 title and saw the AAC as a short term stop before the ACC invite arrived.

4. Rutgers and Louisville were short-timers in the AAC--UConn never got an offer. Football attendance dropped by half.

5. They applied to the Big 12. Crickets ensued.

Wanted to add 6. UConn was seen as a creation of ESPN, and when ESPN were out-bid for the rights to Big East college hoops by Fox, they didn't see the same need to include a rural Connecticut university than ESPN did. So much of that whole ugly chapter was about ESPN and UConn being joined at the hip.

[Sader87]

Quite different from Fordham thinking. Even back in the '30s Fordham didn't want to waste Polo Ground dates on any Ivies. In fact, the term "Ivy League" itself was supposedly coined by a Fordham man and used disparagingly.

Here's the story as I've pieced together....

Back in 1933 the Herald Tribune's Stanley Woodward (1895-1965) came up w/the term "Ivy" to describe the bigger schools who'd feast on smaller "Little Three" cupcakes, like his own Amherst. In this case, while specifically talking about Princeton, I think he used Ivy schools or the Ivies to describe old, established, monied bullies beating up on their smaller, weaker, slightly younger and slightly less monied brothers.

The word caught on but it was his Herald Tribune coworker, Caswell Adams (1907-1957), who took things a step further by labeling all those bigger schools as an "Ivy League" in 1937. Adams, a Fordham grad, also changed the meaning somewhat. Aside from writing for the Herald Tribune, he also did PR work for Lou Little's Columbia Lions and saw first hand the talent disparity between what was going on up at Baker Field and back at the Polo Grounds. So when comparing Princeton and Yale to Fordham (who at the time was undefeated and ranked 3rd in the country) Adams brushed the formers aside as "only Ivy League."

So, kinda funny how to an Amherst guy in 1933 "Ivy" meant old bullies, but to a Fordham guy in 1937 it meant old and no longer relevant.

Fast forward 50 years and most Fordham alumni wanted no part of joining an Ivy-Light league. While this was mostly basketball fans speaking out, whenever football goes through a "good" run, like the Clawson years and then again w/Moorhead, there's always a feel hovering over the fans that Fordham is too good for contests against Ivy-Lights and the Ivy League itself. Not that anyone thinks Fordham is capable of ever-ever-ever being a top ranked FBS again, but rumors of joining the CAA in football (especially when the team is enjoying a good spell) and abandoning Ivy/Ivy Light competition are always just below the surface.




Does "fewer now" mean today's HC alumni are more content w/being in the PL for all sports, or are they more wanting to bring back the type of hoops program HC used to feature?

In essence, it's been a "war of attrition" on HC hoop (and to some extent, football) in the sense that close two generations of HC alumni have graduated since we joined the PL.....most alums undah 50 or so have no memory of HC being a national (or at the very least, regional) power in basketball or the rivalry with BC in football.

I wouldn't say many HC alums are "content" with the PL....more, it's all they've evah known.

[GreenGlasses]

In 2-5 years 2021-2024 UConn will have to make a decision. That's when Texas and Oklahoma will take off to the PAC whatever and take Oklahoma State and Kansas with them. At that point the B12 Misfit 5-6 (Depending on what happens to Texas Tech) will take 4-6 programs from the AAC (Here is a hint UConn won't be 1 of them). Most likely Memphis, The Florida Twins, Houston and maybe 2 others (Cincy and SMU probably). I doubt UConn would take what they would see as another step down in football FBS Style. They either return as a football only to IAA or drop football all together.

This movement will justify a move for UConn one way or another.

[DFW HOYA]

Wanted to add 6. UConn was seen as a creation of ESPN, and when ESPN were out-bid for the rights to Big East college hoops by Fox, they didn't see the same need to include a rural Connecticut university than ESPN did. So much of that whole ugly chapter was about ESPN and UConn being joined at the hip.

UConn wasn't so much a creation of ESPN than a beneficiary of it. Providence AD Dave Gavitt was convinced that UConn was a "sleeping giant" given the loyalty of its fan base and a logical bridge in media markets between New York and Boston. This was all pre-Geno and pre-Jim Calhoun, so Gavitt was, as always, prescient.

I'm not sure ESPN ever bid for the post-2013 Big East and here's why: ESPN had a right of first refusal on TV contracts with the Big East and were taken to court after it was alleged (and corroborated by at least one Big East AD) that ESPN maneuvered schools to move to the ACC, a contract it owned, to keep the costs of the Big East rights fees down. NBC had prepared a major ($11-13 million/school) deal that collapsed of its own weight after Pitt and Syracuse were relocated by the World Wide Leader. But UConn was never strong enough in football to get ESPN's tip of the hat; not incidentally, Boston College has long argued that a second New England team would dilute the ACC and has been able to keep UConn off the expansion docket as a result.

When the seven Big East schools announced they were "leaving" the conference, ESPN sort of lost track of them for a few months but the leadership (primarily Paul Tagliabue with Georgetown, with some Providence officials as well) knew exactly what it was doing. By reforming under a new corporation in New York State, ESPN's right of first refusal did not apply to the new "Big East" and so they could not underbid any offer. Fox comes in with a 10 year, $500M offer (approx. $5 million/school) that ESPN could not supercede. By contrast, the AAC still owns the previous Big East ESPN contract which was rebid by ESPN to just $1.8M per school and expires in 2020-21. The AAC leadership thinks they'll get a windfall from a new offer, to which I would ask, "Why?"

(If you're asking, "Wait, UConn gets half as much than many Big East schools that do not even play football?" the answer is yes.)

As part of the divorce, the seven departing schools ceded to the AAC its remaining NCAA revenue credits through 2013, the vast majority of which were given to UConn, Cincinnati, and South Florida as extant members of the conference. That money has run out, and this is why UConn is struggling with deficits because they overspent during the good years and did not budget when the revenues ran dry.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

UConn might be leaving the AAC as early as next week to return to the Big East in virtually all sports. One of the few exceptions is football. Is this finally the time UConn returns to the 1-AA/FCS? Or will they drop the program all together? I can't see any rationale that justifies going independent.

They and UMass have screwed up their football programs in epic fashion.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My guess:

UConn asks to be football only in the AAC and they say no.

UConn will go independent in football.

AAC will court Army to get the Army Navy game under their TV contract.

[DFW HOYA]

AAC will court Army to get the Army Navy game under their TV contract.

It's not in the new TV contract that will run through 2032 and even if it could, Army-Navy has no interest in moving off CBS. They like a two team deal unencumbered by conference machinations.

[Son of Eli]

I hope they drop down to FCS. I want to see them as perennials on Yale’s schedule again.

[NY Crusader 2010]

I hope they drop down to FCS. I want to see them as perennials on Yale’s schedule again.

Call the rivalry game the "Battle of Needlessly Large Stadiums"

[NY Crusader 2010]

Hello America East football?

UCONN
UMASS
UNH
Maine
Albany
SBU
URI
Merrimack

[Laker]

Hello America East football?

UCONN
UMASS
UNH
Maine
Albany
SBU
URI
Merrimack

Ben & Jerry's can spend some of their money and bring back Vermont football!

[NY Crusader 2010]

It's not in the new TV contract that will run through 2032 and even if it could, Army-Navy has no interest in moving off CBS. They like a two team deal unencumbered by conference machinations.

AWP could and should be wary of joining the AAC after the decade-long CUSA debacle. I think they're happy playing as an indy. Let's see how much longer the Mids can take the heat in this very strong conference. Going to be an uphill battle year in and year out. Being able to hand-pick your schedule as a service academy ain't bad...

[NY Crusader 2010]

Ben & Jerry's can spend some of their money and bring back Vermont football!

Only state besides Alaska without DI football. Maybe its time!

[Laker]

Only state besides Alaska without DI football. Maybe its time!

I've been waiting since 1975...................

[RootinFerDukes]

UConn as an FBS independent if the AAC kicks them out is the most likely outcome. Army may be the most likely replacement as football only but then why wouldn’t they just keep UConn at that point?

Who the hell knows who they’d take from beneath the AAC.

[katss07]

UConn is a mess. They want to keep football FBS, yet they join a non-football conference, while having terrible attendance, bad play, and poor funding. Pretty stupid.

Drop to FCS or the program is gone in 10 years. Idaho did it right. Come home, FBS wannabes.

[GreenGlasses]

In 2-5 years 2021-2024 UConn will have to make a decision. That's when Texas and Oklahoma will take off to the PAC whatever and take Oklahoma State and Kansas with them. At that point the B12 Misfit 5-6 (Depending on what happens to Texas Tech) will take 4-6 programs from the AAC (Here is a hint UConn won't be 1 of them). Most likely Memphis, The Florida Twins, Houston and maybe 2 others (Cincy and SMU probably). I doubt UConn would take what they would see as another step down in football FBS Style. They either return as a football only to IAA or drop football all together.

This movement will justify a move for UConn one way or another.

UConn to the BE happened sooner than I expected. No one will take their horrid football as a football only member. The MAC has already told both Temple and UMass to kick rocks since they wouldn't join in all sports and CUSA nor the Sun Belt need or want UConn football.

My guess is they try indy IA for a few years but with no revenue stream at all due to independence they will eventually drop back down to IAA or even drop football altogether. How they even recruit the players they do is beyond me. Their stadium is 22 miles from campus. No wonder they draw flies at a game.

UConn was never a good football program even in IAA, they made the playoffs exactly 1 time in 1998 a first round win over Howard 42-34 and a 2nd round loss to GA Southern 52-30.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UConn as an FBS independent if the AAC kicks them out is the most likely outcome. Army may be the most likely replacement as football only but then why wouldn’t they just keep UConn at that point?

Who the hell knows who they’d take from beneath the AAC.

No chance AAC keeps UConn as a football affiliate. The league is looking to turn P5 into P6 as quickly as possible and they will take best available IMO. Next man up will be one of the following if I were to guess:

Marshall
UAB
Southern Miss
Army (though AWP should be very apprehensive about a repeat of the decade-long CUSA disaster)

Rice a possibility due to long-term relationships with Houston, Tulane, Tulsa. I'm sure they're a school USNA would approve of as well.

[RootinFerDukes]

UConn is a mess. They want to keep football FBS, yet they join a non-football conference, while having terrible attendance, bad play, and poor funding. Pretty stupid.

Drop to FCS or the program is gone in 10 years. Idaho did it right. Come home, FBS wannabes.

The caa will welcome them back, oversized stadium and all.

[NY Crusader 2010]

UConn is a mess. They want to keep football FBS, yet they join a non-football conference, while having terrible attendance, bad play, and poor funding. Pretty stupid.

Drop to FCS or the program is gone in 10 years. Idaho did it right. Come home, FBS wannabes.

Very possible that Idaho starts a trend. UMass should announce a drop-down tomorrow. I understand UConn wants to wait-and-see but life as an indy will be a mess. What are they going to do -- play home-and-home with Liberty and New Mexico State every year? Good luck filling out the remaining 8 games on the schedule.

[RootinFerDukes]

No chance AAC keeps UConn as a football affiliate. The league is looking to turn P5 into P6 as quickly as possible and they will take best available IMO. Next man up will be one of the following if I were to guess:

Marshall
UAB
Southern Miss
Army (though AWP should be very apprehensive about a repeat of the decade-long CUSA disaster)

Rice a possibility due to long-term relationships with Houston, Tulane, Tulsa. I'm sure they're a school USNA would approve of as well.

ODU seems like the most logical team for the AAC to take, as much as that pains me to say. They’ll likely want a “market” for tv and odu has the best option of a market and a somewhat respectable athletic program.

JMU would be a clear choice but I’m biased and they’re not taking a pride hit by accepting an FCS school.

[GreenGlasses]

ODU seems like the most logical team for the AAC to take, as much as that pains me to say. They’ll likely want a “market” for tv and odu has the best option of a market and a somewhat respectable athletic program.

JMU would be a clear choice but I’m biased and they’re not taking a pride hit by accepting an FCS school.

Take your Purple colored glasses off. JMU doesn't even fit the AAC model, even if IA you wouldn't be considered.

The AAC model looks at big urban places:

New Orleans
Houston
Orlando
Dallas
Memphis
Tulsa
Tampa Bay
Storrs
Wichita
Cincinnati


The only program that doesn't follow that model is ECU and they were the last on the boat the last time.

[TheKingpin28]

Hello America East football?

UCONN
UMASS
UNH
Maine
Albany
SBU
URI
Merrimack

I do not think Merrimack would leave the NEC, right after joining D1 athletics? That said, this scenario would leave the CAA with 6 football teams. YSU, Monmouth, could command serious look from this new conference and the CAA. (Teams in blue are currently in the CAA for reference).

[PAllen]

Hello America East football?

UCONN
UMASS
UNH
Maine
Albany
SBU
URI
Merrimack

more likely:

UCONN
UMASS
Army
Temple
Navy
Liberty
ECU
JMU

[NY Crusader 2010]

I thought Merrimack was joining A-East for non-football sports. Hence why if A-East Football became an entity, I assumed they would play there.

[NY Crusader 2010]

more likely:

UCONN
UMASS
Army
Temple
Navy
Liberty
ECU
JMU

Not happening. Unless the rules have changed, you cant just create an FBS conference out of thin air. Has to be an existing league consisting of at least 8 full members I think.

[NY Crusader 2010]

ODU seems like the most logical team for the AAC to take, as much as that pains me to say. They’ll likely want a “market” for tv and odu has the best option of a market and a somewhat respectable athletic program.

JMU would be a clear choice but I’m biased and they’re not taking a pride hit by accepting an FCS school.

ODU makes THE MOST sense if looking at markets and long-term potential. Great recruiting area, Norfolk-VA Beach media market, would slide into the East Division. However, my feeling is the AAC wants to make a run at the big boys ASAP and would instead go after a program that is more established. Also, unlike C-USA, the AAC mostly consists of schools that have been playing college football for a long time so I would think they'd be hesitant to take an upstart.

ODU stadium listed at 20,000 -- assuming it can easily be expanded?

As far as JMU, AAC would never consider them now. They actually would be a nice get for any of the other three FBS conferences CUSA SUN BELT or MAC. Interesting food for thought -- would the MAC think about going to 14 teams and adding UCONN and JMU?

[DFW HOYA]

ODU stadium listed at 20,000 -- assuming it can easily be expanded?


Old Dominion tore down and rebuilt Foreman Field to open this season. The new capacity is 22,480.

https://www.newodustadium.com/

[PAllen]

Not happening. Unless the rules have changed, you cant just create an FBS conference out of thin air. Has to be an existing league consisting of at least 8 full members I think.

I think Liberty has successfully played chicken with the NCAA on all of those rules. Oh, and I forgot ODU, though 7 conference games might be a plus for Navy.

[Go Green]

Not happening. Unless the rules have changed, you cant just create an FBS conference out of thin air. Has to be an existing league consisting of at least 8 full members I think.

What he's proposing doesn't sound too different from what the AAC did. I get that the AAC was a product of the Big East's divorce, but it was still created out of thin air.

[NY Crusader 2010]

What he's proposing doesn't sound too different from what the AAC did. I get that the AAC was a product of the Big East's divorce, but it was still created out of thin air.

True but the AAC is a conference complete with full-time members with the exception of football affiliate Navy.

In order for the hypothesized East Coast FBS conference proposed here to fly, it would need to have at least 8 full-time members. Right off the bat, UCONN and UMASS would not be in for that and likely not the academies.

Not to mention I cant see Army and Navy signing up to play football in an Eastern league. They like to have their teams travel nationally as a recruiting tool, both for program and for the branches in general. This is why Navy chose to play in AAC West.

[GreenGlasses]

What he's proposing doesn't sound too different from what the AAC did. I get that the AAC was a product of the Big East's divorce, but it was still created out of thin air.

No it wasn't, but it should have lost its auto bid for 5 years.

Big East:
Louisville
WVU
South Florida
Rutgers
Pitt
Syracuse
Cincinnati
UConn

Non Football
Providence
ST Johns
Villanova
Georgtown
Marquette
DePaul
Notre Dame

In 2012 and 2013 the following left:
Louisville (ACC)
Syracuse (ACC)
Pitt (ACC)
WVU (Big 12)
Rutgers (Big 10)

In 2012 and 2013 the following came in:
Houston (2012)
UCF (2012)
SMU (2012)
Temple (2012)
Tulsa (2013)
ECU (2013)
Tulane (2013)

At this point the original Big East or the Catholic 7 said we want no part of this and left, since they owned the Big East name they took it. That left the football members scrambling for a new name. But since they played a season with less than 5 members not playing basketball consecutively for 5 years then they should have lost their auto bid until established again.

[DFW HOYA]

At this point the original Big East or the Catholic 7 said we want no part of this and left, since they owned the Big East name they took it. That left the football members scrambling for a new name.

The departing schools did not own the Big East name and would have left with nothing, with no guarantees the schools would not have scattered to various conferences. How they got it all back is a great story.

[RootinFerDukes]

Take your Purple colored glasses off. JMU doesn't even fit the AAC model, even if IA you wouldn't be considered.

The AAC model looks at big urban places:

New Orleans
Houston
Orlando
Dallas
Memphis
Tulsa
Tampa Bay
Storrs
Wichita
Cincinnati


The only program that doesn't follow that model is ECU and they were the last on the boat the last time.

I’m aware it’s what they’ll do, hence why odu is the likely addition. With that being said, it didn’t do anything for them come TV contract time. It will continue to do nothing for them.

It’s about actual fans, not maybe fans in an area that doesn’t care about them.

[Son of Eli]

Call the rivalry game the "Battle of Needlessly Large Stadiums"

The stadiums wouldn't be as empty as you expect. The Yale-UConn game was once a pretty big deal and used to draw over 40,000 a game. Another 40,000 were in the parking lots partying. If marketed right it could still draw over 20,000.

[Son of Eli]

The caa will welcome them back, oversized stadium and all.


Would the CAA take a 13th member for football?

[dunbar]

It won't happen, but if Massachusetts and Connecticut were to move back to the FCS level, it effectively would kill CAA Football, and maybe the CAA as a whole. The AE4 plus Rhode Island would most likely give them an invite for football. America East should be ahead of the curve and invite Delaware, Towson, and Northeastern for all sports to get to twelve full members, plus perhaps offer Villanova for football as well.

ALL SPORTS:
Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Lowell
Northeastern
Albany
Hartford
Binghamton
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
Maryland Baltimore County

FOOTBALL:
Maine
New Hampshire
Massachusetts
Albany
Rhode Island
Connecticut
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware
Towson

The Yankee Conference name would be great to resurrect as well. This league would be great even if UMass and UConn stay in FBS.

[Go Green]

The stadiums wouldn't be as empty as you expect. The Yale-UConn game was once a pretty big deal and used to draw over 40,000 a game. Another 40,000 were in the parking lots partying. If marketed right it could still draw over 20,000.

At this point, most of us would take anything over 10,000.

[RootinFerDukes]

Would the CAA take a 13th member for football?

It would if it were UConn. They used to be a yankee conference member.

[Sitting Bull]

It won't happen, but if Massachusetts and Connecticut were to move back to the FCS level, it effectively would kill CAA Football, and maybe the CAA as a whole. The AE4 plus Rhode Island would most likely give them an invite for football. America East should be ahead of the curve and invite Delaware, Towson, and Northeastern for all sports to get to twelve full members, plus perhaps offer Villanova for football as well.

ALL SPORTS:
Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Lowell
Northeastern
Albany
Hartford
Binghamton
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
Maryland Baltimore County

FOOTBALL:
Maine
New Hampshire
Massachusetts
Albany
Rhode Island
Connecticut
Stony Brook
Villanova
Delaware
Towson

The Yankee Conference name would be great to resurrect as well. This league would be great even if UMass and UConn stay in FBS.

LOL, another CAA implosion theory.

[centraljerseycat]

Would the CAA take a 13th member for football?

Best scenario would be UConn to drop down to FCS to play in the CAA as the 12th team after Villanova leaves the CAA to play in the Patriot...

[DFW HOYA]

Best scenario would be UConn to drop down to FCS to play in the CAA as the 12th team after Villanova leaves the CAA to play in the Patriot...

UConn isn't paying rent at Rentschler Field to play Elon and Towson. I-AA for UConn is about as likely as Georgetown and Fordham joining Villanova in the CAA.

[Nor Eastern]

UConn will definitely be FBS Indie for the foreseeable future. The state just built them a massive stadium.

If they get lucky they'll even have a better schedule than the AAC.

Their future schedules could include these options:

Sept/Oct:

Syracuse
Pitt
Penn St
BC
Rutgers
Buffalo
Toledo
Ohio
Marshall
Navy
Villanova
Maine
New Hampshire
Ivy League Team

Their November schedule has these options:

UMass
Army
Liberty
NMSU
BYU
SEC Team (The cupcake game before Rivalry weekend)


Pick 12 from that list and I think the average UConn fan will be A-Okay being Big East Oly and FBS Indie

[Model Citizen]

My guess:

UConn asks to be football only in the AAC and they say no.

UConn will go independent in football.

AAC will court Army to get the Army Navy game under their TV contract.

Good guess.

As an alternative, I wonder if UConn could persuade Army and Navy to step out with them into a new FBS football-only league. UMass would be part of it. While I wouldn' t recommend adding Liberty, they would jump at an offer. New Mexico State might give an offer consideration.

If the new fb league got established, one or both of the independent heavies might joint later.

This approach would keep so-called basketball schools from having influence.

[Nor Eastern]

Good guess.

As an alternative, I wonder if UConn could persuade Army and Navy to step out with them into a new FBS football-only league. UMass would be part of it. While I wouldn' t recommend adding Liberty, they would jump at an offer. New Mexico State might give an offer consideration.

If the new fb league got established, one or both of the independent heavies might joint later.

This approach would keep so-called basketball schools from having influence.


That conference wouldn't have access to the CFP, CFP money or bowl games. So unless ESPN just got generous (and UConn just snubbed ESPN for Fox) then a new FBS league will not happen.

[Nor Eastern]

And honestly if push comes to shove they'll use their basketball team as leverage to schedule P5 football games. Offer a H/H in BBall and H/H in FB. That'd open doors to northern ACC and B1G schools. And even scorned AAC teams.

[Model Citizen]

Nonsense. It wouldn't matter at all that some obscure organization failed to recognize them as a conference. commander-in- chief trophy winner would continue to play in a particular bowl. Each and every member of the conferece with a winning record would have a chance at a bowl bid. Sixty-six teams WILL go to bowls this year. Bowls have neither the luxury, nor the inclination toexclude an entire league.

[Nor Eastern]

Nonsense. It wouldn't matter at all that some obscure organization failed to recognize them as a conference.


Now that is nonsense. Without CFP recognition there's absolutely zero means of making the NY6 games. Without CFP recognition you don't get the CFP payout.

It'd be a rouge conference and ESPN completely controls 16 bowls independent of the CFP's 6 and championship game.

[Nor Eastern]

Plus the FBS Football only conference would have to find OLY homes for all those teams in conferences that don't offer FBS football. So why would the ASun, Big South, CAA, SoCon open their doors to a bunch of randos

[Go Green]

Their future schedules could include these options:

Sept/Oct:

Syracuse
Pitt
Penn St
BC
Rutgers
Buffalo
Toledo
Ohio
Marshall
Navy
Villanova
Maine
New Hampshire
Ivy League Team



Let's be honest- that "Ivy League Team" would be Yale.

UConn doesn't care about (among others) Columbia.

[Go Green]

And honestly if push comes to shove they'll use their basketball team as leverage to schedule P5 football games. Offer a H/H in BBall and H/H in FB. That'd open doors to northern ACC and B1G schools. And even scorned AAC teams.

Aye! This man doth speaketh the truth!

[aceinthehole]

UConn isn't paying rent at Rentschler Field to play Elon and Towson. I-AA for UConn is about as likely as Georgetown and Fordham joining Villanova in the CAA.

Agreed. 100%

UConn will play as a FBS Independent until they can't afford to - then they drop football like a bad habit.

No scenario will have UConn as a FCS program, period.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Plus the FBS Football only conference would have to find OLY homes for all those teams in conferences that don't offer FBS football. So why would the ASun, Big South, CAA, SoCon open their doors to a bunch of randos

By rule, an "FBS football only conference" cant exist. It's a moot point. Unless bylaws have changed very recently a conference needs 8 full-time members to sponsor FBS football.

[RootinFerDukes]

Best scenario would be UConn to drop down to FCS to play in the CAA as the 12th team after Villanova leaves the CAA to play in the Patriot...

Y’all better not leave. This league can’t get any crappier while we’re still living in it.

[PAllen]

By rule, an "FBS football only conference" cant exist. It's a moot point. Unless bylaws have changed very recently a conference needs 8 full-time members to sponsor FBS football.

And the Senators and Congressmen from how many states would come out against this trust action if the NCAA ever attempted to enforce it?

[Nor Eastern]

The fact that it's not being done now should tell you all you need to know.

[DFW HOYA]

By rule, an "FBS football only conference" cant exist. It's a moot point. Unless bylaws have changed very recently a conference needs 8 full-time members to sponsor FBS football.

Correct.

"20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conference sponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball."

[Go Green]

By rule, an "FBS football only conference" cant exist. It's a moot point. Unless bylaws have changed very recently a conference needs 8 full-time members to sponsor FBS football.

When Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, USC, Michigan, and Florida State decide to form their own football-only conference, let me know when the NCAA tries to stop them.

[Laker]

When Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, USC, Michigan, and Florida State decide to form their own football-only conference, let me know when the NCAA tries to stop them.

They wouldn't do it- they couldn't stand to have teams with losing records. They would rather have some breathers and play their biggest rivals and have a chance at the playoffs.

[Schism55]

https://twitter.com/UConnFootball/status/1142962776769355776

[Schism55]

UConn football ambitions have really hurt their other programs. They absolutely should be FCS, but they seem to be hell bent for leather not to be.

[Model Citizen]

"20.02.6 Football Bowl Subdivision Conference. A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements. An institution shall be included as one of the eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members only if the institution participates in the conference schedule in at least six men’s and eight women’s conference sponsored sports, including men’s basketball and football and three women’s team sports including women’s basketball."





So "Bowl Alliance" would be the most they could do. Too bad for UConn.

[UNHWildcat18]

Best scenario would be UConn to drop down to FCS to play in the CAA as the 12th team after Villanova leaves the CAA to play in the Patriot...

You aren't leaving the CAA for the POOPTRIOT league. I'll hear no more of this blasphemy.

[walliver]

There is no need for the independents to form a true FBS conference.

The indies could simply get together and form a scheduling alliance and call it a conference and the NCAA would do absolutely nothing about it. It's not like the NCAA has any kind of championship at FBS level where a conference championship means anything. None of the indies have much of a chance at the Access Bowl slot. The CFP payout isn't much for G5 teams anyway - about $1M a team payoff so the G5 doesn't complain about the SEC getting in two teams. A million dollar check is nice, but if the CFP payout makes or breaks a program, that program shouldn't be playing FBS football.

[centraljerseycat]

Agreed. 100%

UConn will play as a FBS Independent until they can't afford to - then they drop football like a bad habit.

No scenario will have UConn as a FCS program, period.

Then get used to no football. There is no way UConn can survive as an independent long-term. Notre Dame, BYU and Army have national followings to get away with it. The state of Connecticut is broke and there aren't enough Uconn football fans to support it at any level really. Their athletic program has a huge deficit and eventually the powers that be will say enough is enough.

[centraljerseycat]

You aren't leaving the CAA for the POOPTRIOT league. I'll hear no more of this blasphemy.

Believe me I don't want to see Nova leave the CAA but with Talley gone and the school unwilling to seek help via the transfer market (I'm talking a few not a KC Keeler level of transfers)like every other CAA school, I just don't see much success in the coming years. This year we have 3 Patriot schools on the schedule. Like almost all things when it comes to Villanova football, our AD has said nothing on the subject.

[Nor Eastern]

Then get used to no football. There is no way UConn can survive as an independent long-term. Notre Dame, BYU and Army have national followings to get away with it. The state of Connecticut is broke and there aren't enough Uconn football fans to support it at any level really. Their athletic program has a huge deficit and eventually the powers that be will say enough is enough.


ND, BYU and Army want to play games spread out across the entire country. UConn will be totally fine with just regional opponents. There's plenty of MAC, AAC, CUSA, SBC and a handful of other indie teams that will let them make a schedule they're fine with without spending over $7 million plus on travel sending their olympic teams all the way down to Florida and out to Texas like the AAC was costing them.

[Nor Eastern]

Liberty and NMSU were able to secure a single bowl contract if available (NMSU to the Arizona Bowl and Liberty to the Cure Bowl). UConn will find their vacation level bowl and that'll be their reward for a 7 win season.

[UNHWildcat18]

Believe me I don't want to see Nova leave the CAA but with Talley gone and the school unwilling to seek help via the transfer market (I'm talking a few not a KC Keeler level of transfers)like every other CAA school, I just don't see much success in the coming years. This year we have 3 Patriot schools on the schedule. Like almost all things when it comes to Villanova football, our AD has said nothing on the subject.

I'm sure you will eventually end up signing a transfer or two per year. In terms of choice, You have excellent facilities(although I think your stadium kinda sucks not that I am one to talk) a great school in terms of academics, and you get way more nation attention due to mens BBALL than any other school at the fcs level outside of maybe NDSU. I just don't see you leaving for a worse league that gets even less attention than the CAA

[dgtw]

When Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Penn State, Florida, USC, Michigan, and Florida State decide to form their own football-only conference, let me know when the NCAA tries to stop them.

What will they do with their other sports when their conference kicks them out for not sponsoring football in the league?


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[Go Green]

What will they do with their other sports when their conference kicks them out for not sponsoring football in the league?




The guys I listed are a lot closer to Notre Dame than they are to UConn. Similar ND/ACC-like deals could be worked out.

I do agree that it would never happen in the real world for the same reason another posted said yesterday--they all need some guys to beat regularly. But if they wanted to form their own conference, I can't believe that the NCAA offices would tell them "no."

[NY Crusader 2010]

The guys I listed are a lot closer to Notre Dame than they are to UConn. Similar ND/ACC-like deals could be worked out.

I do agree that it would never happen in the real world for the same reason another posted said yesterday--they all need some guys to beat regularly. But if they wanted to form their own conference, I can't believe that the NCAA offices would tell them "no."

The scenario you described would probably happen under the context of those schools leaving the NCAA altogether. So you're right the NCAA offices would be powerless.

But the NCAA is already not involved with the FBS rules described before. These are rules created by the FBS itself if I'm not mistaken. And the FBS is essentially run by the power schools you mentioned. Their whole objective keep as much of the revenue pool as possible amongst themselves. So no, Penn State, Texas and company are not going to simply let a handful of Eastern-based schools like UCONN, Liberty, JMU and Delaware create a hodgepodge football-only conference and take a cut of the bowl money.

[TJT]

UConn gambled and lost. It upgraded football several years back to protect its basketball programs. It knew that all sports leagues were going to dominate college sports and the days of a hybrid original Big East conference were numbered. It however wrongly assumed that the big boys would want them. It thought it would end up in a league with Pitt, Syracuse, BC, and Rutgers. That did not happen and they were left standing all alone. It has been living off all the exit and BE name rights sales for the last five years and that is about to dry up. Even with that money its athletic department was hemoraging money as expenses topped revenues by over $40M.

[bonarae]

Well... speaking of move-ups, are the Southern ex-FCS and now-FBS programs better off than their Northern counterparts? Did they manage their move-ups well? xchinscratchx

[Nor Eastern]

Well... speaking of move-ups, are the Southern ex-FCS and now-FBS programs better off than their Northern counterparts? Did they manage their move-ups well? xchinscratchx


I would so say, yes.

Georgia Southern is 2-0 in bowls. Has a conference championship under their belt. Hosted and beat a top 25 ranked team.

App State is 4-0 in bowls. Has won 3 consecutive conference championships. Has hosted several P5 teams. Been ranked in the top 25

Coastal Carolina has a few key wins in their 2 years. Absolutely wrecked CUSA's champion last year

Liberty has beated a P5 team already and has a slew of P5 home games scheduled.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Well... speaking of move-ups, are the Southern ex-FCS and now-FBS programs better off than their Northern counterparts? Did they manage their move-ups well? xchinscratchx

Yes. Because of the boom of sub-P5 football in the region, these schools over a 20-year period basically all moved up together. The Sun Belt is almost completely made up of former FCS schools. Unfortunately there arent 11 other UConns and UMass's in the Northeast that have the backing to do the same thing and/or form an all-sports conference so they can play FBS football together in a league similar to the Sun Belt.

[MR. CHICKEN]

I would so say, yes.

Georgia Southern is 2-0 in bowls. Has a conference championship under their belt. Hosted and beat a top 25 ranked team.

App State is 4-0 in bowls. Has won 3 consecutive conference championships. Has hosted several P5 teams. Been ranked in the top 25

Coastal Carolina has a few key wins in their 2 years. Absolutely wrecked CUSA's champion last year

Liberty has beated a P5 team already and has a slew of P5 home games scheduled.


......LET US....NOT FO'GET......UCONN HAS HAD SOME GREAT SUCCESS....UNDER EDSALL......DARLIN'S UH NORFF EAST FOOTBAL.....RANKED......3-3 IN FBS BOWLS......B-CAME FULL TIME FBS IN 2002......SO DON'T RUSH.....TA SOGONERS.....WHOM HAVE STEPPED UP.....AN'.......ARE STILL YOUNGIN'S...........AWK!

[Reign of Terrier]

I would so say, yes.

Georgia Southern is 2-0 in bowls. Has a conference championship under their belt. Hosted and beat a top 25 ranked team.

App State is 4-0 in bowls. Has won 3 consecutive conference championships. Has hosted several P5 teams. Been ranked in the top 25

Coastal Carolina has a few key wins in their 2 years. Absolutely wrecked CUSA's champion last year

Liberty has beated a P5 team already and has a slew of P5 home games scheduled.

Other Southern teams that moved up successfully: Troy and Marshall (Marshall has an outstanding bowl record since moving up)

There are exceptions, like UNC Charlotte, but if you're a southern team that has a decent following with decent attendance (18k+) and you have people who care about your program, you're in good shape. A lot of these northern teams don't have that.

[DFW HOYA]

These schools are judged successful by means of a lower bar: namely, the Sun Belt--it's not like Georgia State or App. St. was winning in the AAC.

Put another way, if UConn was winning comparable titles at a Sun Belt level, would this be judged as a success?

[Nor Eastern]

These schools are judged successful by means of a lower bar: namely, the Sun Belt--it's not like Georgia State or App. St. was winning in the AAC.

Put another way, if UConn was winning comparable titles at a Sun Belt level, would this be judged as a success?


You can only beat the competition you're given. One did that. UConn didn't. They'll do well as an Indie. But the AAC was not their jam.

[MR. CHICKEN]

These schools are judged successful by means of a lower bar: namely, the Sun Belt--it's not like Georgia State or App. St. was winning in the AAC.

Put another way, if UConn was winning comparable titles at a Sun Belt level, would this be judged as a success?

....DING! DING!..................xhighfivex................. AWK!

[Mike296]

These schools are judged successful by means of a lower bar: namely, the Sun Belt--it's not like Georgia State or App. St. was winning in the AAC.

Put another way, if UConn was winning comparable titles at a Sun Belt level, would this be judged as a success?

For what it’s worth I think GSU and App St have done well for themselves since moving up. Considering circumstances, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AAC go after either App St or GSU(maybe even both and grab one more team with them?) with UCONN leaving.


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[clenz]

ASU doesn't have bear the basketball program to even sniff a look

A replacement will be WKU or ODU. ODU if the AAC continues it's trend of wanting larger markets. WKU for a place with a more established history.

That is where JMU comes in. Not for the AAC bit for CUSA
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[MR. CHICKEN]

For what it’s worth I think GSU and App St have done well for themselves since moving up. Considering circumstances, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AAC go after either App St or GSU(maybe even both and grab one more team with them?) with UCONN leaving.


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....IGGLES....HAVE HAD COUPLE LOSIN' YEARS.......DON'T FO'GET 2017...EVEN OURAH NEW HAMPSHIRE 'CATS......BEAT 'EM........NOT 'NUFF BODY UH WORK.....IS MAH POINT......AWK!

[Nor Eastern]

ASU doesn't have bear the basketball program to even sniff a look

A replacement will be WKU or ODU. ODU if the AAC continues it's trend of wanting larger markets. WKU for a place with a more established history.

That is where JMU comes in. Not for the AAC bit for CUSA
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UAB might get a look. History with a chunk of the teams. New 45k person stadium. College hungry market. R2 school.


But word is coming out that the AAC has no plans on replacing UConn. Stay at 11 until some perfect opportunity comes knocking.

[clenz]

UAB might get a look. History with a chunk of the teams. New 45k person stadium. College hungry market. R2 school.


But word is coming out that the AAC has no plans on replacing UConn. Stay at 11 until some perfect opportunity comes knocking.UAB is still where JMU would come in.

CUSA would have ODU/JMU in the same region. Talk about adding some "fire" to the conference for rivalries.

11 teams also wouldn't surprise me with how the basketball world is going

All the big conferences are going 20 game conference schedules. The AAC could go true double round robin with a 20 game schedule. It would create an RPI insulator. Then have the top teams get a few good exempt tournies or neutral site games and you've protected you conference RPI/BPI.

[Nor Eastern]

UAB is still where JMU would come in.

CUSA would have ODU/JMU in the same region. Talk about adding some "fire" to the conference for rivalries.

11 teams also wouldn't surprise me with how the basketball world is going

All the big conferences are going 20 game conference schedules. The AAC could go true double round robin with a 20 game schedule. It would create an RPI insulator. Then have the top teams get a few good exempt tournies or neutral site games and you've protected you conference RPI/BPI.

I think that's why UConn jumped to the Big East. Now the BE will be 11 schools and UConn isn't stuck in the AAC awaiting the B12 to decide if they want to take Cincy or Houston, at which point the AAC's bball strength would be hurt.

[uni88]

Other Southern teams that moved up successfully: Troy and Marshall (Marshall has an outstanding bowl record since moving up)

There are exceptions, like UNC Charlotte, but if you're a southern team that has a decent following with decent attendance (18k+) and you have people who care about your program, you're in good shape. A lot of these northern teams don't have that.Is Marshall really southern?

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[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Is Marshall really southern?

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Tweener!

As a Temple alum I wouldn't mind Marshall in the AAC. Well supported football program with a bit of national profile. Their bball program has had pockets of success. It seems the Herd have the potential to be pretty good.

As of now Navy is the only day trip left. Marshall would give me another conference opponent that's within a days drive. ECU and Cincinnati are pretty easy weekend trips. Everything else is a plane ride.

[clenz]

I think that's why UConn jumped to the Big East. Now the BE will be 11 schools and UConn isn't stuck in the AAC awaiting the B12 to decide if they want to take Cincy or Houston, at which point the AAC's bball strength would be hurt.Yup

UCONN wants to be with those Big East schools - even if they aren't "one of them" they are closer to them than the AAC.

Houston is the B12s next add Houston (and Cinci combo would be an interesting both for the B12). No way UCONN wants to continue to be in the AAC minus Houston or Cinci.



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[Reign of Terrier]

Is Marshall really southern?

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Well, they were in the Southern conference is why I bring it up.

Say what you want about who they're playing now, how much exposure they have, etc, but Marshall is 12-2 in bowls since going FBS, and App/GSU are undefeated.

If your goal in moving up is to win enough games to compete for conference championship and win your bowl game, they're pretty successful at that.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

My guess:

UConn asks to be football only in the AAC and they say no.

UConn will go independent in football.

AAC will court Army to get the Army Navy game under their TV contract.

Aaaaaaand it looks like the AAC has no plans to expand.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2019/06/24/american-athletic-conference-uconn-football-expansion/1553756001/

I chuckle at all the sports writers that bring up UAB or even Georgia State and UNCC (ha!). Those guys just parrot what everyone else says about realignment.

Media markets mean zilch below the Power 5 level where conferences don't have their own TV networks. The AAC isn't bringing in MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt schools that have football and basketball attendance and budgets well below those of the AAC.

[Sader87]

UConn currently has 4 OOC games in 2020 and 2021 (including Holy Cross in '21) are those still set in stone? Is it too early to tell now?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Aaaaaaand it looks like the AAC has no plans to expand.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2019/06/24/american-athletic-conference-uconn-football-expansion/1553756001/

I chuckle at all the sports writers that bring up UAB or even Georgia State and UNCC (ha!). Those guys just parrot what everyone else says about realignment.

Media markets mean zilch below the Power 5 level where conferences don't have their own TV networks. The AAC isn't bringing in MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt schools that have football and basketball attendance and budgets well below those of the AAC.

Marshall and or ODU would be choices. Outside of those, no one else really interests me. Temple needs another "regional (ish)" league rival imo. If only JMU had a better stadium and bball program imo.

I do think media markets matter in the AAC and MWC. While there might not be huge $$$$, both conferences are able to pull in enough interest in key metro areas to make a ripple.

[uni88]

Marshall and or ODU would be choices. Outside of those, no one else really interests me. Temple needs another "regional (ish)" league rival imo. If only JMU had a better stadium and bball program imo.

I do think media markets matter in the AAC and MWC. While there might not be huge $$$$, both conferences are pull in enough interest in key metro areas to make a ripple.

I think they matter for the schools currently in the AAC but do the schools that might be considered make enough of a ripple in their respective markets? Does ODU move the needle in the Tidewater area the way Temple does in Philly? UAB in Birmingham?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think they matter for the schools currently in the AAC but do the schools that might be considered make enough of a ripple in their respective markets? Does ODU move the needle in the Tidewater area the way Temple does in Philly? UAB in Birmingham?

I think ODU playing Temple, Navy and ECU in the Tidewater area would create a fair amount of buzz. An annual ODU-ECU game could really develop into something. The Pirates will be back. That program has too much support for it to fail under Houston. I know plenty of people on the Temple board that would travel to ODU for a roadie. The traveling fans that live in Southeast PA (metro philly) and points south would really benefit. ODU also has history in men's and women's bball. They were a big power (along with La Tech) in women's hoops back in the day. Ticha Penicheiro was awesome!

Temple football definitely has a presence in Philly since we've spent the last decade as a Top 40'ish type program. Still, we're a DISTANT second to the pro teams....

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think they matter for the schools currently in the AAC but do the schools that might be considered make enough of a ripple in their respective markets? Does ODU move the needle in the Tidewater area the way Temple does in Philly? UAB in Birmingham?

You might could argue the AAC programs have big fan bases because they're in big markets but it's a mistake to think any program in a big market can be like Houston or UCF.

Remember when Northern Illinois was the next Boise State circa 6 years ago? How's that going? I mean, they're not bad or anything but no one talks about them anymore.

And you have programs like North Texas, Rice, UTEP, and Buffalo that are occasionally (or rarely) good.

[Nor Eastern]

If the AAC decides to stay at 11 and the NCAA grants them a waiver to compete in uneven divisions and maintain their conference championship game then the only reason to add a 12th would be to appease ESPN.

The JMU fans that might be hoping to move up might just be SOL.

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

I think ODU playing Temple, Navy and ECU in the Tidewater area would create a fair amount of buzz. An annual ODU-ECU game could really develop into something. The Pirates will be back. That program has too much support for it to fail under Houston. I know plenty of people on the Temple board that would travel to ODU for a roadie. The traveling fans that live in Southeast PA (metro philly) and points south would really benefit. ODU also has history in men's and women's bball. They were a big power (along with La Tech) in women's hoops back in the day. Ticha Penicheiro was awesome!

Temple football definitely has a presence in Philly since we've spent the last decade as a Top 40'ish type program. Still, we're a DISTANT second to the pro teams....

Wow flashback, Lisa Blais from Westbook, Maine was a 4yr starter and led ODU to the NC in womens basketball in 85. The Coach for ODU football, Bobby Wilder was QB at Maine and OC before getting the job at ODU.

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

UConn currently has 4 OOC games in 2020 and 2021 (including Holy Cross in '21) are those still set in stone? Is it too early to tell now?

Maine is at UConn Sept.19, 2020 and I have family in CT and some that work at the University and trying to feel them out and they are in the dark as to how this will all play out. I would think it is safe to say nothing is certain at this pointxbowx

[walliver]

If the AAC really wants to be a "Power 6" conference, they would be better off contracting and not expanding.
Tulsa has 3200 undergraduate students. Tulane hasn't accomplished much since leaving the SEC, and wasn't very competitive before then.
SMU has struggled since they stopped cheating (or at least got better at hiding it).

The P6 hype is a long-shot, anyway.

[clenz]

If the AAC really wants to be a "Power 6" conference, they would be better off contracting and not expanding.
Tulsa has 3200 undergraduate students. Tulane hasn't accomplished much since leaving the SEC, and wasn't very competitive before then.
SMU has struggled since they stopped cheating (or at least got better at hiding it).

The P6 hype is a long-shot, anyway.Not like Wichita State does much for "P-6" either. They don't have football and since losing Van Vleet and Baker have been less than ideal on the basketball front - just as they were for a few years leading up to VV and Baker

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If the AAC really wants to be a "Power 6" conference, they would be better off contracting and not expanding.
Tulsa has 3200 undergraduate students. Tulane hasn't accomplished much since leaving the SEC, and wasn't very competitive before then.
SMU has struggled since they stopped cheating (or at least got better at hiding it).

The P6 hype is a long-shot, anyway.

Tulane and to a lesser extent SMU, give the AAC two elite, private academic institutions. The higher ups at Temple, UCF, Cincinnati, ECU, Houston etc like to keep company with schools of that ilk even if their athletics are so-so at best. The ACC wouldn't be the same without Duke or Wake Forest. Likewise, the Big Ten and PAC 12 need Northwestern and Stanford to enhance each league's academic profile just that little extra.

Tulsa has a good track record in hoops. They were tournament regulars in the 80's, 90's (3 Sweet 16's) and early 2000's (Elite 8) before really falling off. Football wise, the Golden Hurricanes were good in CUSA. Kragthorpe, Graham and Blakenship had things rolling then.

[Seawolf97]

In any event it should be interesting who the AAC asks to replace UConn . So much speculation but they just might sit tight for a few seasons and add no one .

[Sader87]

Is UConn to the PL for football-only a complete non-starter? Obviously it won't be decided for awhile but it would provide geographic and #'s balance for the league football-wise. They wouldn't be the first or only Big East school to play football in the PL.

Just spit ballin'...but I don't think it's as far fetched as it sounds initially.

[DFW HOYA]

Is UConn to the PL for football-only a complete non-starter?

Yes. As was Rutgers to the PL.

[aceinthehole]

Is UConn to the PL for football-only a complete non-starter? Obviously it won't be decided for awhile but it would provide geographic and #'s balance for the league football-wise. They wouldn't be the first or only Big East school to play football in the PL.

Just spit ballin'...but I don't think it's as far fetched as it sounds initially.

You don't know UConn fans (or administrators, or the CT legislature)

It is a non-starter. They will not play FCS football. If they can't financially supports FBS football anytime in the future, they will just drop the sport and add MLax.

They will follow in the footsteps of Long Beach State and Wichita State.

[Bill]

If the AAC really wants to be a "Power 6" conference, they would be better off contracting and not expanding.
Tulsa has 3200 undergraduate students. Tulane hasn't accomplished much since leaving the SEC, and wasn't very competitive before then.
SMU has struggled since they stopped cheating (or at least got better at hiding it).

The P6 hype is a long-shot, anyway.

Walliver - NICE reference point! Wow...I think that was mid 1960's! That one made me chuckle....

[SUPharmacist]

Tulane and to a lesser extent SMU, give the AAC two elite, private academic institutions. The higher ups at Temple, UCF, Cincinnati, ECU, Houston etc like to keep company with schools of that ilk even if their athletics are so-so at best. The ACC wouldn't be the same without Duke or Wake Forest. Likewise, the Big Ten and PAC 12 need Northwestern and Stanford to enhance each league's academic profile just that little extra.


I don't know anything about the needs of the AAC, but I do not think the Big Ten or Pac 12 need Northwestern or Stanford to get that little extra enhanced academic profile. As far as the Big Ten, while Northwestern is viewed as having great academics, that is also true of the other member institutions. They have been there since close to the beginning (I think a founding member) and are a great school near a major market and there has never been a reason why they would leave, or why the Big Ten would want them to leave. They are a real asset, but I cannot picture Michigan or other flagships in the Big Ten thinking, oh gosh we would look just awful if Northwestern left.

[clenz]

I don't know anything about the needs of the AAC, but I do not think the Big Ten or Pac 12 need Northwestern or Stanford to get that little extra enhanced academic profile. As far as the Big Ten, while Northwestern is viewed as having great academics, that is also true of the other member institutions. They have been there since close to the beginning (I think a founding member) and are a great school near a major market and there has never been a reason why they would leave, or why the Big Ten would want them to leave. They are a real asset, but I cannot picture Michigan or other flagships in the Big Ten thinking, oh gosh we would look just awful if Northwestern left.
NW was a founding member. They are also one of the examples of "If they weren't there when it started they wouldn't be there now". Every conference has members like that

The B10 has Northwestern
The B12 has Iowa State and Kansas State that were Big 8 founders and came in with the merger. What Iowa State has become - specifically since the B12 was formed is due entirely due to people wanting to watch Texas, OU and Kansas basketball. Further proof of concept? Drake was with Iowa State in the early 1900s and joined the Big 8 along with Iowa State in 1908 (1 year after formation) but left for the Missouri Valley in 1928. Same thing as Grinnell College (a D3 in Iowa with 1,700 students in a town of like 8,000. In 1910 Ames had a population of less than 4,000. It is now about 60,000 and it is almost all exclusively due to Iowa State - and them being in the B8/12.

Iowa State was the Iowa Agricultural College and Model Farm in the 1890s when all this was proposed. They were the Iowa State College of Ag and Mechanical Arts until 1960.

To put in perspective the difference in what "family" you were born into a century ago? Cedar Falls had a larger metro and was also a small specialized college at the same time - the Iowa State Normal School and Iowa State Teachers College until 1969 when the state change it to UNI. The single largest driving factor that lead Iowa State to take off was being staying in the B8 over a century ago when Grinnell, Drake and UNI decided to be in other conferences.

Got off topic...but...

The B10 doesn't need NW academics to prop them up. Adding Newbrahskah proves that.

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

It's official as UConn has accepted the offer to return to the Big East for all sports except, football, hockey and women's rowing. They held a press conference today I did not listen to it but would imagine it did not shed any light on what they are doing football wise. Nice video with Geno explaining they are going home(the Big East that is).
https://uconnhuskies.com/feature/big-east?utm_medium=email&utm_source=pac&utm_campaign=big-east&utm_term=database&utm_content=big-east-2019-6-27

[Schism55]

You don't know UConn fans (or administrators, or the CT legislature)

It is a non-starter. They will not play FCS football. If they can't financially supports FBS football anytime in the future, they will just drop the sport and add MLax.

They will follow in the footsteps of Long Beach State and Wichita State.
I don't doubt this to be the case, but their fans can't see what their football ambitions have done to undermine their other sports?
Also Uconn football is a raging dumpster fire and has been for quite some time.
UConn and UMass come home, the water is fine :)

[CenMEBlackBearFan]

I don't doubt this to be the case, but their fans can't see what their football ambitions have done to undermine their other sports?
Also Uconn football is a raging dumpster fire and has been for quite some time.
UConn and UMass come home, the water is fine :)

I forgot how much success UConn had in the 2000's. Won the Big East twice, went to 6 bowls, beat Notre Dame to stop a long winning streak. They really have gone downhill since 2013 when the Big East became the AAC. This school has the ability to be way more successful but I agree it is a dumpster fire now. It should not be that bad as they are one of only a handful of FBS schools in the S. New England area and have such fantastic practice facilities as well as a top academic school. It is a shame that they how have gotten themselves into such a bind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UConn_Huskies_football

Here is an article from HC Randy Edsal saying the program is in the hands of the Board of Trusteess for UConn- https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-football/hc-sp-randy-edsall-uconn-football-big-east-20190626-20190626-tfz4hrydsjetdmygo3ngysk7hm-story.html

[Go Green]

They will follow in the footsteps of Long Beach State and Wichita State.

Those two aren't state flagship universities.

No disrespect to CCSU, but I have a hard time seeing Connecticut being ok with you guys being the "state" football team.

[Sader87]

Good point....hard to see UConn "sharing" the same level as CCSU in football.

Who knows how this will play out moving forward? I could see both Villanova and UConn in the PL for football only down the road in one scenario though.

[Evolution Prime]

The B10 doesn't need NW academics to prop them up. Adding Newbrahskah proves that.

Nebraska was an AAU member up until they got admitted to the B1G, so they aren't a slouch academically. Just not a Northwestern or a Stanford.

[clenz]

Nebraska was an AAU member up until they got admitted to the B1G, so they aren't a slouch academically. Just not a Northwestern or a Stanford.
The N stands for Nolledge.

[Evolution Prime]

The N stands for Nolledge.

Everyone know that.

[aceinthehole]

Those two aren't state flagship universities.

No disrespect to CCSU, but I have a hard time seeing Connecticut being ok with you guys being the "state" football team.



Good point....hard to see UConn "sharing" the same level as CCSU in football.

Who knows how this will play out moving forward? I could see both Villanova and UConn in the PL for football only down the road in one scenario though.

First, flagship status doesn't mean anything for football in New England. Prior to 2001, no New England public university ever played "major" college football. Yankee Conference schools (UConn, UMass, URI, UNH, Maine, and until 1975 Vermont) were never consider "major" college football programs. UConn has played more than 100 seasons of college football in the "second-tier" (Small College/I-AA). Furthermore, public flagships in other States in the region (New York, Delaware, and to a lesser degree NJ) never really played "major" college football either.

Major College (I-A/FBS) football is a new experiment at UConn and the impetus was the unique opportunity to directly join a BCS/P5 conference. In 1997, UConn and Villanova were given an opportunity that was truly unique. UConn took the bait and 'Nova passed. Sure, what UConn accomplished during their time in the spotlight was impressive. Under the first term of Randy Edsall, they were Nationally ranked, won 3 Bowl Games, and reached a BCS bowl in 2010. However, they accomplished that with the "BCS/P5" label, revenue, and exposure. While the replacement coaches were unmitigated disasters, once they were left out of the realignment and their "peers" bolted to join the ACC - the dream of "major" college football at UConn died. The people who fund the program (taxpayers) and the ADministration are finally seeing the writing on the wall and are doing what's best for basketball and the rest of their sports.

UConn's football aspirations were so bright they just burnt out. They have tasted the high life and will not return to the FCS, which is now "third-tier" status after P5 and G5.

Second, UConn will never drop to the "level" of football that CCSU plays - and yes they will be absolutely fine having Central being the "state" football team. Basketball, ice hockey, soccer and baseball are much more popular youth sports in Connecticut. This is not the land of Friday Night Lights. Connecticut is culturally not a football state. So yes, I could envision a future where CCSU is playing FCS and UConn folds its team an invests their $$ for Final Fours and Frozen Fours.

Last year marked only 20 seasons of I-A football at UConn. In a decade or two, the Fiesta Bowl will be remembered in the same light as Holy Cross' Orange Bowl game against Miami (FL) and the Huskies will very possibly have another National Championship banner in men's basketball to cheer them up.

[DFW HOYA]

First, flagship status doesn't mean anything for football in New England. Prior to 2001, no New England public university ever played "major" college football. Yankee Conference schools (UConn, UMass, URI, UNH, Maine, and until 1975 Vermont) were never consider "major" college football programs.


Given their historical lack of funding, they were not considered "major" universities, either.

[Sader87]

That is true...the Yankee Conference schools were always cosidered decent schools by the denizens of NE but nowhere to the level of say the Big 10 state schools by their natives.

Even into the 80s and 90s UMass was basically thought of and called "ZooMass" by many in the Bay State. It's really only in the last 25 years or so that the perception of UMass, UConn, UNH et.al. has changed from "party, cow town schools " to well respected universities in general.

[aceinthehole]

Given their historical lack of funding, they were not considered "major" universities, either.

Agreed. But tell that to UConn fans - they think they are a elite public university because they have 4 National Championships in Men's Basketball and went to a BCS Bowl. They are not even a Top-50 National University today.

So are you and the Hoyas excited about the Huskies return to the Big East? What are Big East fans perception of UConn?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Nebraska was an AAU member up until they got admitted to the B1G, so they aren't a slouch academically. Just not a Northwestern or a Stanford.

And it was news when Nebraska lost their AAU accreditation. AAU is/was something the other Big 10 schools took reasonable pride in.

Academics may not be end all be all but they do matter in a competitive sense.

[DFW HOYA]

So are you and the Hoyas excited about the Huskies return to the Big East? What are Big East fans perception of UConn?

Connecticut is one of the originals, so that means something. But unlike the traitors at Boston College and the reprobates at Syracuse, UConn did not skip out on their conference, they stayed where they were and found that the AAC was not what they hoped it would be.

I think people know that UConn will be a tough opponent but a rising tide raises all boats, maybe even DePaul.

[aceinthehole]

And to put a finer point on it - even in basketball UConn was nothing special until Jim Calhoun took over.

In the 40 years before Jim Calhoun’s arrival in Storrs, the UConn basketball program could be at best be called a “regional power program” – it was NOT a national program in any sense of the term. Holy Cross was likely the only New England schools that could be regarded as a “national program.”

From 1947-1986, UConn made 19 postseason (NCAA or NIT) appearances, but recorded just 6 wins. During that time, the Huskies spent a total of 4 weeks in the AP Top-25 (1953-54 and 1980-81).

Jim Calhoun won 1998 NIT Champions, made 4 Final Four appearances and won 3 National Championships. The Huskies won 10 Big East regular season titles and 7 Big East Tournaments under Calhoun and reached postseason tourney (NCAA or NIT) in 24 out of 26 seasons. During this period, UConn spent 313 weeks in the AP Top-25; and 11 times the team finished season AP Top-10.

UConn is a National power in basketball because of one coach and the opportunities provided by bing a charter member of the Big East. They hope to mirror that type of success with Hurley and the new Big East.

I'll let other decide how likely they will succeed.

[DFW HOYA]

In the 40 years before Jim Calhoun’s arrival in Storrs, the UConn basketball program could be at best be called a “regional power program” – it was NOT a national program in any sense of the term. Holy Cross was likely the only New England schools that could be regarded as a “national program.”


NCAA Bids, 1954 to 1979:

Connecticut: 12
Providence: 8
Boston College: 4
Rhode Island: 3
Dartmouth: 3
Holy Cross: 2
Yale: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Harvard: 0
Vermont: 0
Maine: 0
New Hampshire: 0

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

And to put a finer point on it - even in basketball UConn was nothing special until Jim Calhoun took over.

In the 40 years before Jim Calhoun’s arrival in Storrs, the UConn basketball program could be at best be called a “regional power program” – it was NOT a national program in any sense of the term. Holy Cross was likely the only New England schools that could be regarded as a “national program.”

From 1947-1986, UConn made 19 postseason (NCAA or NIT) appearances, but recorded just 6 wins. During that time, the Huskies spent a total of 4 weeks in the AP Top-25 (1953-54 and 1980-81).

Jim Calhoun won 1998 NIT Champions, made 4 Final Four appearances and won 3 National Championships. The Huskies won 10 Big East regular season titles and 7 Big East Tournaments under Calhoun and reached postseason tourney (NCAA or NIT) in 24 out of 26 seasons. During this period, UConn spent 313 weeks in the AP Top-25; and 11 times the team finished season AP Top-10.

UConn is a National power in basketball because of one coach and the opportunities provided by bing a charter member of the Big East. They hope to mirror that type of success with Hurley and the new Big East.

I'll let other decide how likely they will succeed.

Uconn was 1988 NIT Champs. That run to the Garden is was really started to get the residents of the Nutmeg state excited. Calhoun did a great job if building program with a certain tough, blue collar identity that fans in the Northeast gravitated towards. The win over Duke in 1999 (an absolutely loaded Duke team) is one of the most legendary title game performances in NCAA Finals history. To be fair, that UConn team was insanely good as well.

If UConn can recruit the I-95 corridor successfully like in years past then there's no reason they can't remain a national power in the Big East. The XL Center is not a bad place for college hoops. Sure the concourses are narrow but it's a great place to watch a game and it rocks! Gampel is awesome! Perfect college hoops venue!

As much as I wish UConn would have stayed in the AAC and got things rolling again I totally get this move. They'll be better for it...

[Go Green]

So are you and the Hoyas excited about the Huskies return to the Big East? What are Big East fans perception of UConn?

I think that most consider UConn to be basketball royalty.

I assume that if Indiana, Kentucky, or Kansas asked for a BE invite, the answer would be "yes" before they could even finish the sentence.

[aceinthehole]

NCAA Bids, 1954 to 1979:

Connecticut: 12
Providence: 8
Boston College: 4
Rhode Island: 3
Dartmouth: 3
Holy Cross: 2
Yale: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Harvard: 0
Vermont: 0
Maine: 0
New Hampshire: 0

Thanks. Fair to say UConn was the regional power - but couldn't convert those appearances into many NCAA wins.

I'm not sure what the perception of the rest of the region was, but I guess I was thinking of HC run from 1947-56.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

NCAA Bids, 1954 to 1979:

Connecticut: 12
Providence: 8
Boston College: 4
Rhode Island: 3
Dartmouth: 3
Holy Cross: 2
Yale: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Harvard: 0
Vermont: 0
Maine: 0
New Hampshire: 0

Between Calhoun and Carlesimo; PJ took over the harder gig, Seton Hall. Calhoun definitely had some solid history to build off of when he arrive in Storrs. The Big East gave them the platform to basically max out. Seton Hall came darn close in 1989 against Michigan. 3-4 years prior that would have seemed impossible in Pirate land. It would take Calhoun another decade to reach Monday night.

[aceinthehole]

Between Calhoun and Carlesimo; PJ took over the harder gig, Seton Hall. Calhoun definitely had some solid history to build off of when he arrive in Storrs. The Big East gave them the platform to basically max out. Seton Hall came darn close in 1989 against Michigan. 3-4 years prior that would have seemed impossible in Pirate land. It would take Calhoun another decade to reach Monday night.

Absolutely.

P..J. was hired directly from Wagner :)

[GreenGlasses]

https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Reign of Terrier https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2777089#post2777089) Other Southern teams that moved up successfully: Troy and Marshall (Marshall has an outstanding bowl record since moving up)

There are exceptions, like UNC Charlotte, but if you're a southern team that has a decent following with decent attendance (18k+) and you have people who care about your program, you're in good shape. A lot of these northern teams don't have that.
Marshall is 12-2 in bowl games. Best winning% in bowls with at least 10 bowl games. They also have the longest bowl winning streak in the nation at 7.


https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mike296 https://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/SeamusLight/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=2777096#post2777096)
For what it’s worth I think GSU and App St have done well for themselves since moving up. Considering circumstances, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the AAC go after either App St or GSU(maybe even both and grab one more team with them?) with UCONN leaving.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Appy nor GA Southern fit the AAC model.

The AAC model is large urban area's:

New Orleans
Memphis
Orlando
Tampa Bay
Tulsa
Dallas
Storrs
Houston
Cincinnati
Annapolis (Football only)
Wichita

The only school that doesn't fit this model is Greenville NC and well ECU has a 50K seat stadium. The football is horrid right now and may or may not get any better. Actually all athletics outside of baseball are a dumpster fire.

[Sader87]

NCAA Bids, 1954 to 1979:

Connecticut: 12
Providence: 8
Boston College: 4
Rhode Island: 3
Dartmouth: 3
Holy Cross: 2
Yale: 2
Massachusetts: 1
Harvard: 0
Vermont: 0
Maine: 0
New Hampshire: 0

A bit of "cherry-picking" on HC's supposed dearth of success here...

HC won the NIT in '54...then very close to the NCAA in prestige. They also went to 5 other NITS in the 50s and 60s and 2 more in the 70s.

Being an Indy at the time made it much harder to qualify for the NCAA then were other NE schools in the Ivy or Yankee had the automatic bid.

Holy Cross and PC had the most sustained basketball success in NE from say 1954 to 1980 imo.

[Evolution Prime]

And it was news when Nebraska lost their AAU accreditation. AAU is/was something the other Big 10 schools took reasonable pride in.

Academics may not be end all be all but they do matter in a competitive sense.

Only reason they lost it was because they didn't like the medical school being in Omaha and they AAU disregarding USDA ag research. It was BS they got voted out in the first place.

[Laker]

Only reason they lost it was because they didn't like the medical school being in Omaha and they AAU disregarding USDA ag research. It was BS they got voted out in the first place.

Yes, that was a big pile of crap.

[Sitting Bull]

Rentschler Field doesn't exactly fit the PL or I-AA footprint...Watching 2,200 people show up to play Bucknell in a 38,000 seat stadium that's 25 miles off campus isn't a good idea. (Its on campus field, Memorial Stadium, was razed.)

http://www.myrecordjournal.com/getattachment/c3aeda54-0983-4f10-a86e-f3ebd4757ceb/rent

They had 21,000 this past year at hosting URI.

It was one of their largest crowds of the year.

If UConn moved back to FCS and/ or CAA, this would be only the 2nd largest FCS stadium in CT.

[mvfcfan]

Honestly going independent for football in the long run could actually help UConn a lot in my opinion. If they get good in football, people will view them as a Big East school rather than as an American Athletic school, which will be a huge positive. No one views the Big East as a mid major league, but everyone views the AAC as a mid major league. (P.S. No one is buying the P6 nonsense the AAC throws around.) I'm sure they will want to test the Independent waters before going to the CAA (FCS).

UConn will probably never be in the ACC no matter what. The ACC tried to add them several years ago, but Boston College blocked them. BC's reasoning was that they wanted to be the ACC's NE team and basically not have any competition for that title. So going to the Big East was the best move UConn could currently make.

I'm actually somewhat surprised that Notre Dame hasn't tried to get into the Big East. They would be able to stay a true independent for football, rather than being forced to play 5 ACC schools per year. The negative is that they would no longer be in a true power conference and they probably have too big of an ego to play in the same conference as Butler.

[NY Crusader 2010]

Notre Dame actively left the Big East. The ACC deal is what they wanted.

[clenz]

Notre Dame actively left the Big East. The ACC deal is what they wanted.
This.

The B10 tried for years to get ND to commit to the same deal ND got from the ACC but couldn't get it done.

By agreeing to the ACC deal ND accomplised a few things

1. They widened their presence on the EC even more than it already was. If they took a B10 offer their footprint stayed the same
2. By staying indy in football but playing ACC schools they get point number 1 filled but still get to keep rivalry games with B10 and other historical blue bloods in football

[Go Green]

Boston College blocked them. BC's reasoning was that they wanted to be the ACC's NE team and basically not have any competition for that title.

At the time, BC was also pissed that UConn sued them to prevent them from leaving the Big East.

We will never know what would have happened if UConn simply wished BC well in its new endeavor with the ACC ...