The Great CAA Massacre of 2018

[dbackjon]

Damn!

1-4 today. 0-3 against “lesser “ conferences

[Bisonator]

OVER RATED
OVER RATED
OVER RATED

[Gangtackle11]

OVER RATED
OVER RATED
OVER RATED

You are correct sir. No argument to this post. xpeacex

[bonarae]

Wow.

Just how far they have fallen playoff-wise? xsmhx

[hebmskebm]

I was just about to post a similar thread titled "The CAA's First Round Wet Fart Weekend" xlolx

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I haven't seen the Colonials lose this badly since the Battle of Camden.

[FUBeAR]

I was just about to post a similar thread titled "The CAA's First Round Wet Fart Weekend" xlolxdidn’t want to start the thread, so I just posted the obligatory dumpster fire gifs in the SEMO - Stony Brook thread

[taper]

Related to another thread, anyone need more evidence 24 is too big a field? You end up with utter crap playing in the first round.

[MR. CHICKEN]

........DUH BIG BAD MVFC.........GOT NUFFIN' TA BE PROUD 'BOUT......RIGHT NOW..........AWK!

[jmuwishyouhadadukedog]

I'm all in favor of going back to a field of 16.

The CAA was exceptionally average this year. Nobody was head and shoulders over anyone. It so happened that 7 teams ended with winning records and six teams made the playoffs. The CAA is the conference that had the greatest depth from 1-middle of the conference. The Big Sky and the MVFC have the strongest top 2-3, rather handily.

Say what you want but what is the alternative? Who would you have put in over any of the CAA teams? Elon is the only one I could see having left out. Every conference was down this year in terms of depth after their top 2-3 teams.

[Schism55]

Can forget about any conference ever getting 6 into the field again....

[JacksFan40]

JMU will probably win so that’s 1 more win, of course it’s against a CAA team but hey who cares.

[NDB]

Say what you want but what is the alternative? Who would you have put in over any of the CAA teams?

Literally any MVFC team except for MoState.

[JSUSoutherner]

O-V-C! O-V-C! O-V-C! :D

[apaladin]

We definitely have a new BIG LIE conference. Of course their only win was when 2 CAA teams played. Somebody had to win that one.

[AmsterBison]

Related to another thread, anyone need more evidence 24 is too big a field? You end up with utter crap playing in the first round.

The problem with that theory is that they'd probably have leave in all the CAA teams and leave out the teams that beat them.

[jmuwishyouhadadukedog]

Literally any MVFC team except for MoState.

I'll give you Indiana State but that is it. Otherwise, you can't lose 5 conference games or have a losing record and expect to make it to the playoffs.

[dbackjon]

O-V-C! O-V-C! O-V-C! :D


You kept telling me SEMO was awful...:)

[Terry2889]

.... This just makes our season that much more depressing : ( go ahead world... Pile on...

[dbackjon]

The problem with that theory is that they'd probably have leave in all the CAA teams and leave out the teams that beat them.
Exactly.

They would Pull the auto-berth from the NEC to get there

[Terry2889]

I haven't seen the Colonials lose this badly since the Battle of Camden.

Long Island Was an ass whipping too!

[EU2000]

Elon definitely overrated....9 starters out will have that impact.

[JSUSoutherner]

You kept telling me SEMO was awful...:)
It's magical what a +38 turnover margin can do for a team.

[Reign of Terrier]

It's magical what a +38 turnover margin can do for a team.I'm on my phone is this a true stat?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Reign of Terrier]

Elon definitely overrated....9 starters out will have that impact.Elon is properly rated. They would have won against some of these opponents their conference got matched up with.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm on my phone is this a true stat?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I think it's +27

They have, I think, 35 takeaways this season.

[Gangtackle11]

Congrats to Delaware. They were the 2nd best CAA team on the field today. xpeacex

[POD Knows]

........DUH BIG BAD MVFC.........GOT NUFFIN' TA BE PROUD 'BOUT......RIGHT NOW..........AWK!Yea, I am going to keep my powder dry, UNI is playing like **** on offense.

[Herder]

The Stats article touting the superiority of the CAA duped the selection committee. In a big conference where your best teams are 8-3 and you don’t play everyone, you end up with a whole lot of 6-5 and 7-4 mediocrity.

[whoanellie]

no not with the offensive offense We threw out there the last 3 games. Wofford did whip us up front controlled the LOS good win
Elon is properly rated. They would have won against some of these opponents their conference got matched up with.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

just got home, what happened?

[MR. CHICKEN]

...........BETTERAH LEFT IN DUH DARK...BRAWK!

[Bison56]

just got home, what happened?
I can tell you that the UD offense didn’t happen.

[Gangtackle11]

just got home, what happened?

YES....MR. CHICKEN IS RIGHT.....DUH CAA LAID AH EGG!!....BROCCO!! xpeacex

[caribbeanhen]

YES....MR. CHICKEN IS RIGHT.....DUH CAA LAID AH EGG!!....BROCCO!! xpeacex

I saw it all..... meltdown day in the CAA

JMU and Maine lose next week

[semobison]

I'll give you Indiana State but that is it. Otherwise, you can't lose 5 conference games or have a losing record and expect to make it to the playoffs.

The Big Sky has had some playoff disasters too. The problem is you don't play all the good teams in your conference. Easier to go 7-3 in the CAA and Big Sky than it is the Missouri Valley where you play all but one team. ISUb, ISUr and WIU were all ranked at one point of the season until the conference schedule gobbled them up. The Valley in my opinion was a mucked up even mess from 3rd to 8th place.

[MR. CHICKEN]

.....WORST OPENIN' ROUND...EVER......BRAWK!

[caribbeanhen]

.....WORST OPENIN' ROUND...EVER......BRAWK!

We got a break with JMU, beats losing to Duquense

[MR. CHICKEN]

We got a break with JMU, beats losing to Duquense

.....YES...WE COME OUT.....SMELLIN'....SOME WHAT......RESPECTABLE............AWK!

[TypicalTribe]

Let's be honest, in a 16 team field, none of the four teams that lost today would have been playing. Personally, I didn't think any of the four were particularly good and the only loss that could really be called surprising was Towson/Duquesne. Once I saw the bracket, I figured JMU was the only team with a chance to win two games. Disappointing day for the conference button exactly the armageddon people are describing it as.

[Daytripper]

Let's be honest, in a 16 team field, none of the four teams that lost today would have been playing. Personally, I didn't think any of the four were particularly good and the only loss that could really be called surprising was Towson/Duquesne. Once I saw the bracket, I figured JMU was the only team with a chance to win two games. Disappointing day for the conference button exactly the armageddon people are describing it as.

This complaining about the 24-team playoff is ridiculous. The difference between teams 2-6 in the playoffs is not very wide via 16-24. Match ups can make the difference look wider than reality. People are just looking for a reason to justify their conferences' losses.

[jmu007]

I’m not knocking Elon. I didn’t think they’d keep it that close with the injuries. Pleasantly surprised there. I’m with everyone else in Givingn a big WTF to Towson and Stony Brook. Way to not even show up.

[jmuwishyouhadadukedog]

I'm not saying the CAA is the best conference, in part because I don't give a damn and in part because I agree. If it was possible that every other conference mate could somehow go 0-11, I wouldn't care as I only root for JMU. Why are people so emotionally invested in their conferences? I think having 2-3 really good teams (like the MVFC and Big Sky) that have a shot of making it to the semi-finals is a better proposition than 6 good-kinda good teams that may or may not make it out of the first round (as we found out today).

The only other CAA team that even had a remotely reasonable discussion about having a seed besides Maine was JMU. At the end of the regular season, I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that the CAA had probably two teams deserving to be in the 6-12 spots of the rankings and nobody in the top 5. Everyone between 12-25, as far as I'm concerned could be sorted randomly by drawing names from a hat. Not many people were suggesting that anyone in the CAA besides JMU and Maine had good chances of getting to the quarterfinals, perhaps with the exception that some people believed that maybe Elon might be able to get past Wofford and then a KSU team perceived as overrated by many. It should come as no surprise to anyone that they lost all their games to non CAA foes in the first round.

Sure, I get wanting to exclude maybe one of the CAA teams that made it in over someone else who was more deserving to get in and that was Elon getting in over Indiana State. And that is only because Elon didn't get to play a game that was a likely victory against William and Mary due to hurricane and because I'd personally factor in their decline at the end of the season (due large in part the loss of their starting QB and RB)

Forgive me if this is not 100% correct as I didn't double check it but I think its close. This year, in the regular season the CAA went:

2-11 vs FBS teams (Villanova beat Temple and Maine beat WKU)
21-4 vs out of conference FCS teams (Delaware lost to NDSU, Maine lost to Yale, UNH lost to Colgate, William and Mary lost to Colgate)

3 of the 4 FCS losses by CAA teams were to seeded teams and the only 'bad loss' was Maine to Yale.

I'll grant you, we collectively played a weak ass OOC schedule (lots of middling for their conference Patriot, Ivy, NEC teams). The sad reality is that the best non-FBS out of conference wins this year was Elon over Furman (6-5) and URI over Harvard (6-4).

So in summation, given the generally weak field of teams in the FCS this year, there were not 24 truly deserving teams for the playoffs and as a result, the collective body of work of several 7-4 and 6-4 CAA teams was good enough to get in as nobody besides Indiana State had a (in my opinion) legitimate argument over any of them. The CAA was exceptionally good at being above average compared to the field of FCS teams which was weaker this year than any I can think of in recent memory.

That doesn't mean if I were the CAA commissioner I wouldn't prefer the circumstances of the MVFC with 2 top 6 seeds or the Big Sky with 3 top 6 seeds. I wouldn't. I'll take 2-3 teams that have a shot at the National Championship over 6 that for most, could at best hope for a FCS Playoffs participation trophy.

I agree with about everyone in this thread. Bring the playoffs back to 16 teams. In that scenario, as TypicalTribe posted, JMU is the only other CAA team besides Maine that would have definitely gotten in and MAYBE one other team would have gotten in a round of 16.

[BisonBacker]

I'm not saying the CAA is the best conference, in part because I don't give a damn and in part because I agree. If it was possible that every other conference mate could somehow go 0-11, I wouldn't care as I only root for JMU. Why are people so emotionally invested in their conferences? I think having 2-3 really good teams (like the MVFC and Big Sky) that have a shot of making it to the semi-finals is a better proposition than 6 good-kinda good teams that may or may not make it out of the first round (as we found out today).

The only other CAA team that even had a remotely reasonable discussion about having a seed besides Maine was JMU. At the end of the regular season, I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that the CAA had probably two teams deserving to be in the 6-12 spots of the rankings and nobody in the top 5. Everyone between 12-25, as far as I'm concerned could be sorted randomly by drawing names from a hat. Not many people were suggesting that anyone in the CAA besides JMU and Maine had good chances of getting to the quarterfinals, perhaps with the exception that some people believed that maybe Elon might be able to get past Wofford and then a KSU team perceived as overrated by many. It should come as no surprise to anyone that they lost all their games to non CAA foes in the first round.

Sure, I get wanting to exclude maybe one of the CAA teams that made it in over someone else who was more deserving to get in and that was Elon getting in over Indiana State. And that is only because Elon didn't get to play a game that was a likely victory against William and Mary due to hurricane and because I'd personally factor in their decline at the end of the season (due large in part the loss of their starting QB and RB)

Forgive me if this is not 100% correct as I didn't double check it but I think its close. This year, in the regular season the CAA went:

2-11 vs FBS teams (Villanova beat Temple and Maine beat WKU)
21-4 vs out of conference FCS teams (Delaware lost to NDSU, Maine lost to Yale, UNH lost to Colgate, William and Mary lost to Colgate)

3 of the 4 FCS losses by CAA teams were to seeded teams and the only 'bad loss' was Maine to Yale.

I'll grant you, we collectively played a weak ass OOC schedule (lots of middling for their conference Patriot, Ivy, NEC teams). The sad reality is that the best non-FBS out of conference wins this year was Elon over Furman (6-5) and URI over Harvard (6-4).

So in summation, given the generally weak field of teams in the FCS this year, there were not truly 24 deserving teams for the playoffs and as a result, the collective body of work of several 7-4 and 6-4 CAA teams was good enough to get in as nobody besides Indiana State had a (in my opinion) legitimate argument over any of them. The CAA was exceptionally good at being above average compared to the field of FCS teams which was weaker this year than any I can think of in recent memory.

That doesn't mean if I were the CAA commissioner I wouldn't prefer the circumstances of the MVFC with 2 top 6 seeds or the Big Sky with 3 top 6 seeds. I wouldn't. I'll take 2-3 teams that have a shot at the National Championship over 6 that for most, could at best hope for a FCS Playoffs participation trophy.

I agree with about everyone in this thread. Bring the playoffs back to 16 teams. In that scenario, as TypicalTribe posted, JMU is the only other CAA team besides Maine that would have definitely gotten in and MAYBE one other team would have gotten in a round of 16.

Holy crap man write a book!

[jmuwishyouhadadukedog]

Holy crap man write a book!

I've had a week off from work for the first time in a year, if you didn't notice, I'm bored.

[caribbeanhen]

I’m not knocking Elon. I didn’t think they’d keep it that close with the injuries. Pleasantly surprised there. I’m with everyone else in Givingn a big WTF to Towson and Stony Brook. Way to not even show up.

Stony played well enough in the first half, but collapsed totally

[kalm]

I'm not saying the CAA is the best conference, in part because I don't give a damn and in part because I agree. If it was possible that every other conference mate could somehow go 0-11, I wouldn't care as I only root for JMU. Why are people so emotionally invested in their conferences? I think having 2-3 really good teams (like the MVFC and Big Sky) that have a shot of making it to the semi-finals is a better proposition than 6 good-kinda good teams that may or may not make it out of the first round (as we found out today).

The only other CAA team that even had a remotely reasonable discussion about having a seed besides Maine was JMU. At the end of the regular season, I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that the CAA had probably two teams deserving to be in the 6-12 spots of the rankings and nobody in the top 5. Everyone between 12-25, as far as I'm concerned could be sorted randomly by drawing names from a hat. Not many people were suggesting that anyone in the CAA besides JMU and Maine had good chances of getting to the quarterfinals, perhaps with the exception that some people believed that maybe Elon might be able to get past Wofford and then a KSU team perceived as overrated by many. It should come as no surprise to anyone that they lost all their games to non CAA foes in the first round.

Sure, I get wanting to exclude maybe one of the CAA teams that made it in over someone else who was more deserving to get in and that was Elon getting in over Indiana State. And that is only because Elon didn't get to play a game that was a likely victory against William and Mary due to hurricane and because I'd personally factor in their decline at the end of the season (due large in part the loss of their starting QB and RB)

Forgive me if this is not 100% correct as I didn't double check it but I think its close. This year, in the regular season the CAA went:

2-11 vs FBS teams (Villanova beat Temple and Maine beat WKU)
21-4 vs out of conference FCS teams (Delaware lost to NDSU, Maine lost to Yale, UNH lost to Colgate, William and Mary lost to Colgate)

3 of the 4 FCS losses by CAA teams were to seeded teams and the only 'bad loss' was Maine to Yale.

I'll grant you, we collectively played a weak ass OOC schedule (lots of middling for their conference Patriot, Ivy, NEC teams). The sad reality is that the best non-FBS out of conference wins this year was Elon over Furman (6-5) and URI over Harvard (6-4).

So in summation, given the generally weak field of teams in the FCS this year, there were not 24 truly deserving teams for the playoffs and as a result, the collective body of work of several 7-4 and 6-4 CAA teams was good enough to get in as nobody besides Indiana State had a (in my opinion) legitimate argument over any of them. The CAA was exceptionally good at being above average compared to the field of FCS teams which was weaker this year than any I can think of in recent memory.

That doesn't mean if I were the CAA commissioner I wouldn't prefer the circumstances of the MVFC with 2 top 6 seeds or the Big Sky with 3 top 6 seeds. I wouldn't. I'll take 2-3 teams that have a shot at the National Championship over 6 that for most, could at best hope for a FCS Playoffs participation trophy.

I agree with about everyone in this thread. Bring the playoffs back to 16 teams. In that scenario, as TypicalTribe posted, JMU is the only other CAA team besides Maine that would have definitely gotten in and MAYBE one other team would have gotten in a round of 16.

Why reduce it? To avoid bad outcomes for your conference? Teams and their fans that beat CAA teams today are getting a taste of the playoffs and playoff wins for the first time and that leads to greater interest and support of the subdivision which leads to greater competition.

Wanting to reduce the field is sour grapes and for those who don't like more football.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Why reduce it? To avoid bad outcomes for your conference? Teams and their fans that beat CAA teams today are getting a taste of the playoffs and playoff wins for the first time and that leads to greater interest and support of the subdivision which leads to greater competition.

Wanting to reduce the field is sour grapes and for those who don't like more football.

I don't think it has anything to do with more football. I'm a fan of team who's team plays in a one bid league yet I think 24 are too many.

If the CAA didn't get 6 teams in it would have been someone else filling the space. Having 6 CAA teams in just makes it easier to point figures. Otherwise it would be individual teams getting dumped on for not "belonging". I'm of the belief there's too many meaningless games with 24 spots.

The point is to crown the best team not hand out playoff participation trophies. The best team simply does not come from a pool of 12-24.

[PaladinFan]

You also have a conference that doesn’t play everyone. Maine won the title without playing the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

[KPSUL]

Elon, Stony Brook and Towson were all leading at the half, collectively they were outscored 69- 0 in the 2nd half.

[kalm]

I don't think it has anything to do with more football. I'm a fan of team who's team plays in a one bid league yet I think 24 are too many.

If the CAA didn't get 6 teams in it would have been someone else filling the space. Having 6 CAA teams in just makes it easier to point figures. Otherwise it would be individual teams getting dumped on for not "belonging". I'm of the belief there's too many meaningless games with 24 spots.

The point is to crown the best team not hand out playoff participation trophies. The best team simply does not come from a pool of 12-24.

No...it has everything to do with more football. Today was Christmas being able to watch 8 games mostly between teams that normally don't face each other. Where's the harm?

[Redbird 4th & short]

.....WORST OPENIN' ROUND...EVER......BRAWK!

2011 ??

[semobison]

You also have a conference that doesn’t play everyone. Maine won the title without playing the teams that finished 2nd, 3rd, or 4th.

Yep, same thing happens in the Big Sky!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Elon, Stony Brook and Towson were all leading at the half, collectively they were outscored 69- 0 in the 2nd half.


Piss poor halftime adjustments...xeyebrowx.....great adjustments by the opponents.

[PaladinFan]

Yep, same thing happens in the Big Sky!

It was a point Clay Hendrix (Furman’s Coach) brought up when discussing the at large selections. Some of the conferences where everyone played everyone else seem to be at a disadvantage in favor of those where a team could go all season and not play the other top teams in their own league.

[Bisonoline]

So far the tally is

Southland 1-2
CAA 1-4
MVFC 1-0

CAA has 1 win because they played another CAA team.:D

[matfu]

I'm all in favor of going back to a field of 16.

The CAA was exceptionally average this year. Nobody was head and shoulders over anyone. It so happened that 7 teams ended with winning records and six teams made the playoffs. The CAA is the conference that had the greatest depth from 1-middle of the conference. The Big Sky and the MVFC have the strongest top 2-3, rather handily.

Say what you want but what is the alternative? Who would you have put in over any of the CAA teams? Elon is the only one I could see having left out. Every conference was down this year in terms of depth after their top 2-3 teams.


Furman should have gotten in. 6-2 in conference and co-champions.

CAA was way overrated BUT air is tough when they all don’t play each other.

I am for 24 teams for sure. Who cares if a few average teams get in.

Surprised North Dakota State does not want to move up-what I think won 5 in a row and 6 of the last 7. Oh well.

[Hammersmith]

Furman should have gotten in. 6-2 in conference and co-champions.

CAA was way overrated BUT air is tough when they all don’t play each other.

I am for 24 teams for sure. Who cares if a few average teams get in.

Surprised North Dakota State does not want to move up-what I think won 5 in a row and 6 of the last 7. Oh well.

I think the university would like to move up, and a majority of fans would support it(some would hate it, of course), but there would have to be an invitation that's just not coming. Look at a map of G5 conferences. See that nice big void in the upper midwest that Fargo is in the middle of? That's why NDSU is still in the FCS. If Fargo was a top-50 media market or something, maybe things would be different. But it isn't and they're not.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Long Island Was an ass whipping too!

I almost wrote Long Island but Camden was more recent. 1780>1776.

I would have also accepted Fort Washington, Charleston and Savannah.

[Reign of Terrier]

So far the tally is

Southland 1-3
CAA 1-4
MVFC 1-0

CAA has 1 win because they played another CAA team.:D

Socon 1-0 with another one pending ;)

[Redbird 4th & short]

So far the tally is

Southland 1-3
CAA 1-4
MVFC 1-0

CAA has 1 win because they played another CAA team.:D

Southland 1-2

[Bisonoline]

Southland 1-2

Yep. I knew that.????

So far the tally is

Southland 1-2
CAA 1-4
MVFC 1-0

CAA has 1 win because they played another CAA team.http://www.anygivensaturday.com/images/smilies/biggrin2.png

[jmuwishyouhadadukedog]

Why reduce it? To avoid bad outcomes for your conference? Teams and their fans that beat CAA teams today are getting a taste of the playoffs and playoff wins for the first time and that leads to greater interest and support of the subdivision which leads to greater competition.

Wanting to reduce the field is sour grapes and for those who don't like more football.

Wouldn't not getting teams in the playoffs count as a bad outcome as well?

I'd rather see 16 teams play four rounds of football and get rid of the current first round for many reasons.

1. Because the first round playoff games right after Thanksgiving are always poorly attended, it doesn't matter if you are JMU or Colgate. Not a good look for the FCS. Git rid of the current first round and start the first round the week the current second round games are played.

2. Football is a grueling sport and I'd rather see the top 16 teams play each other and not get beat up/injured by 8 less deserving teams. The regular season already does enough to beat up teams.

3. Examples of teams outside of the first 16 making it to the championship, semifinals, and quarterfinals are exceedingly rare:

-In 8 years of expanded playoffs there hasn't been a single time when a team that wasn't a top 4 seed won the national championship. Not surprising given NDSU's dominance

-Only one team has ever made it to the National Championship game that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were 16 teams and that was the 2016 Youngstown State team (though they would have had a chance at an at large at 8-3). That is 1 team out of 16 teams that have played in the national championship (6% of the time)

-There are only four teams that have advanced to the semi finals that might not have made it into the playoffs if it was a 16 team playoff:

2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff with an at large)
2013 University of New Hampshire (wouldn't have made it in)
2010 Georgia Southern (wouldn't have made it in)

That is 2-4 times out of 32 possible semifinal teams (6%-12% of the time)

Eleven teams that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were a 16 team playoff have made it to the quarterfinals:

2017 Weber State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 UNH (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 Wofford (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Richmond (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 University of Northern Iowa (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 University of New Hampshire (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 Jacksonville State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2010 Georgia Southern (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2010 North Dakota State University (probably wouldn't have gotten in)

That is 7 to 11 times that a team that might not have made it in a 16 team playoff have gotten to the round of 8 (10-17% of the time).

[Thumper 76]

No...it has everything to do with more football. Today was Christmas being able to watch 8 games mostly between teams that normally don't face each other. Where's the harm?
Today has been far more fun for me than even March Madness has been. Love me the playoff football opening weekend.

Wouldn't not getting teams in the playoffs count as a bad outcome as well?

I'd rather see 16 teams play four rounds of football and get rid of the current first round for many reasons.

1. Because the first round playoff games right after Thanksgiving are always poorly attended, it doesn't matter if you are JMU or Colgate. Not a good look for the FCS. Git rid of the current first round and start the first round the week the current second round games are played.

2. Football is a grueling sport and I'd rather see the top 16 teams play each other and not get beat up/injured by 8 less deserving teams. The regular season already does enough to beat up teams.

3. Examples of teams outside of the first 16 making it to the championship, semifinals, and quarterfinals are exceedingly rare:

-In 8 years of expanded playoffs there hasn't been a single time when a team that wasn't a top 4 seed won the national championship. Not surprising given NDSU's dominance

-Only one team has ever made it to the National Championship game that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were 16 teams and that was the 2016 Youngstown State team (though they would have had a chance at an at large at 8-3). That is 1 team out of 16 teams that have played in the national championship (6% of the time)

-There are only four teams that have advanced to the semi finals that might not have made it into the playoffs if it was a 16 team playoff:

2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff with an at large)
2013 University of New Hampshire (wouldn't have made it in)
2010 Georgia Southern (wouldn't have made it in)

That is 2-4 times out of 32 possible semifinal teams (6%-12% of the time)

Eleven teams that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were a 16 team playoff have made it to the quarterfinals:

2017 Weber State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 UNH (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 Wofford (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Richmond (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 University of Northern Iowa (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 University of New Hampshire (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 Jacksonville State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2010 Georgia Southern (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2010 North Dakota State University (probably wouldn't have gotten in)

That is 7 to 11 times that a team that might not have made it in a 16 team playoff have gotten to the round of 8 (10-17% of the time).

I’m not going through this whole thing, but the “extra grind” thing is horse**** and you know it. If one game is too much then we should NEVER allow 12 game seasons. But we do. Hell if that was the case then there should be no playoffs at all because of how grueling one extra game is, let alone 4.

If even one has made it to the championship in the short time we’ve had 24 teams, it’s kind of proof that it’s worth it, is it not? Obviously more possible than one would think it’s made to be. Hell, that’s phenomenally higher odds of making the championship game than the 16 seed has of even winning a game in the NCAA tournament. I would say those odds are pretty damn good for being a low down the ladder as those teams were coming in.

It’s ONE extra round, and all it does is make the unseeded teams have to win one extra game compared to seeded teams anyways. I’ve noticed a theme to the posters who have the “too many teams in” attitude, and it’s usually fans from teams who don’t want to associate with lowers conferences cause they think their program is above playing them unless they give them a paycheck to come to their place early in the season.


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[BisonTru]

Socon 1-0 with another one pending ;)

The NEC is also 1-0. ;)xcoolx

[Redbird 4th & short]

Wouldn't not getting teams in the playoffs count as a bad outcome as well?

I'd rather see 16 teams play four rounds of football and get rid of the current first round for many reasons.

1. Because the first round playoff games right after Thanksgiving are always poorly attended, it doesn't matter if you are JMU or Colgate. Not a good look for the FCS. Git rid of the current first round and start the first round the week the current second round games are played.

2. Football is a grueling sport and I'd rather see the top 16 teams play each other and not get beat up/injured by 8 less deserving teams. The regular season already does enough to beat up teams.

3. Examples of teams outside of the first 16 making it to the championship, semifinals, and quarterfinals are exceedingly rare:

-In 8 years of expanded playoffs there hasn't been a single time when a team that wasn't a top 4 seed won the national championship. Not surprising given NDSU's dominance

-Only one team has ever made it to the National Championship game that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were 16 teams and that was the 2016 Youngstown State team (though they would have had a chance at an at large at 8-3). That is 1 team out of 16 teams that have played in the national championship (6% of the time)

-There are only four teams that have advanced to the semi finals that might not have made it into the playoffs if it was a 16 team playoff:

2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff with an at large)
2013 University of New Hampshire (wouldn't have made it in)
2010 Georgia Southern (wouldn't have made it in)

That is 2-4 times out of 32 possible semifinal teams (6%-12% of the time)

Eleven teams that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were a 16 team playoff have made it to the quarterfinals:

2017 Weber State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 UNH (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 Wofford (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Richmond (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 University of Northern Iowa (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 University of New Hampshire (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 Jacksonville State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2010 Georgia Southern (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2010 North Dakota State University (probably wouldn't have gotten in)

That is 7 to 11 times that a team that might not have made it in a 16 team playoff have gotten to the round of 8 (10-17% of the time).

UNH probably not gotten in ? ...... xeyebrowx xconfusedx xsmhx

[PaladinFan]

Today has been far more fun for me than even March Madness has been. Love me the playoff football opening weekend.


I’m not going through this whole thing, but the “extra grind” thing is horse**** and you know it. If one game is too much then we should NEVER allow 12 game seasons. But we do. Hell if that was the case then there should be no playoffs at all because of how grueling one extra game is, let alone 4.

If even one has made it to the championship in the short time we’ve had 24 teams, it’s kind of proof that it’s worth it, is it not? Obviously more possible than one would think it’s made to be. Hell, that’s phenomenally higher odds of making the championship game than the 16 seed has of even winning a game in the NCAA tournament. I would say those odds are pretty damn good for being a low down the ladder as those teams were coming in.

It’s ONE extra round, and all it does is make the unseeded teams have to win one extra game compared to seeded teams anyways. I’ve noticed a theme to the posters who have the “too many teams in” attitude, and it’s usually fans from teams who don’t want to associate with lowers conferences cause they think their program is above playing them unless they give them a paycheck to come to their place early in the season.


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I'm in favor of going back to 16 teams and playing the championship before Christmas.

In those days, if you weren't an 8 or 9 win team, you could forget about the postseason. It was the best of the best.

[KPSUL]

Wouldn't not getting teams in the playoffs count as a bad outcome as well?



-There are only four teams that have advanced to the semi finals that might not have made it into the playoffs if it was a 16 team playoff:

2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff with an at large)
2013 University of New Hampshire (wouldn't have made it in)
2010 Georgia Southern (wouldn't have made it in)

That is 2-4 times out of 32 possible semifinal teams (6%-12% of the time)

Eleven teams that might not have made it into the playoffs if it were a 16 team playoff have made it to the quarterfinals:

2017 Weber State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 UNH (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Youngstown State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2016 Wofford (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2016 Richmond (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2015 Sam Houston State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2015 University of Northern Iowa (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 University of New Hampshire (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2013 Jacksonville State (quite possibly make it in a 16 team playoff as an at large)
2010 Georgia Southern (probably wouldn't have gotten in)
2010 North Dakota State University (probably wouldn't have gotten in)

That is 7 to 11 times that a team that might not have made it in a 16 team playoff have gotten to the round of 8 (10-17% of the time).

2016 UNH Won a 1st round game vs Lehigh, and lost to JMU in the 2nd round, they were not a Quarterfinalist; however, 2017 UNH made it to the Quarter Finals.

Actually when I saw the list of teams that made the Semi-finals and quarterfinals I thought it was a compelling argument for 24 teams, not against it.

2010 - 2012 were 20 team playoffs

[SeattleGriz]

The CAA has set back playoff football decades with it's performance today.

[gofurman]

Related to another thread, anyone need more evidence 24 is too big a field? You end up with utter crap playing in the first round.

That doesn’t mean 24 is too big. Just that CAA wasn’t deserving of SIX teams. Just the WRONG 24 - Maybe Indiana State and Furman. Hmmm? Lol

I’ve seen great upsets like many thought Duquesne didn’t belong
They did. It’s not an issue of too many teams - just get the RIGHT Teams.

The question is will the committee remember this CAA playoff performance next year and cut the CAA to 4 or 5 allowing a team or two from other conferences ?!!!? That’s the takeaway. And I am fair. Elon has an asterisk with a TON of injuries. The question was after injuries the. Elon lost 3 of last 5 games. I thought the committee rewarded strong finishes ? That’s a tough one though

[Thumper 76]

Meanwhile, the OVC, Southland, and Socon all have a better OOC playoff record this year than the CAA.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif


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[gofurman]

The Stats article touting the superiority of the CAA duped the selection committee. In a big conference where your best teams are 8-3 and you don’t play everyone, you end up with a whole lot of 6-5 and 7-4 mediocrity.

This. When you DONT PLAY EVERYONE in your conference. That fudges things

[JSUSoutherner]

I'd like to point out the OVC won more games today than the CAA.

[ElCid]

The question is will the committee remember this CAA playoff performance next year and cut the CAA to 4 or 5 allowing a team or two from other conferences ?!!!? That’s the takeaway.

Why would this year have anything to do with next year. It is 100% irrelevant. They might very well pick the wrong teams next year, or not, but it better be based on next year's performance and have nothing to do with this year.

[thebootfitter]

Y'all arguing for 16 teams realize that is not possible under the current regulations of the NCAA, right? As in, it can't happen. Unless the regulations governing NCAA sanctioned championship tournaments changes. Which in itself is very unlikely to happen.

I guess it's fine to want something that is not possible, but doesn't do much good for anyone.

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[Hammersmith]

Meanwhile, the OVC, Big Sky, MVFC, NEC, Southland, and Socon all have a better OOC playoff record this year than the CAA.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif


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FYP

[BisonFan02]

Meanwhile, the OVC, Southland, and Socon all have a better OOC playoff record this year than the CAA.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/laughter.gif


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https://media.tenor.com/images/f7354b8c66dcf774a0cd75d1806e0d56/tenor.gif

[Hammersmith]

Y'all arguing for 16 teams realize that is not possible under the current regulations of the NCAA, right? As in, it can't happen. Unless the regulations governing NCAA sanctioned championship tournaments changes. Which in itself is very unlikely to happen.

I guess it's fine to want something that is not possible, but doesn't do much good for anyone.

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I'm hearing this a lot, but I don't think it's quite correct. I don't believe the "at least 50% autobids" rule is part of the NCAA DI bylaws. If I recall correctly, it's an FCS policy. It's a nitpicking difference between the two, but an FCS policy is a lot easier to change than a DI bylaw.

That said, I don't expect it to change, and I like 24 teams.

[ElCid]

Y'all arguing for 16 teams realize that is not possible under the current regulations of the NCAA, right? As in, it can't happen. Unless the regulations governing NCAA sanctioned championship tournaments changes. Which in itself is very unlikely to happen.

I guess it's fine to want something that is not possible, but doesn't do much good for anyone.

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We have been through this. Rule changes, or more likely exceptions ,can always be made. The "rule" could always have an exception that says, "except for FCS football." But it is probably moot anyway, because it will never happen unless there are serious structural changes to the subdivision. 24 is ok.

[furpal87]

Actually it is but the SWAC and Meac don't accept the automatic bids...or it would be 12 and 12.

[Thumper 76]

FYP

Very sloppy of me, nice catch!


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[BisonFan02]

Actually it is but the SWAC and Meac don't accept the automatic bids...or it would be 12 and 12.

The addition of the Pioneer auto brought it to 24....and since the MEAC walked....they could go back to 20. Someone will have to confirm.

[cx500d]

I'd like to point out the OVC won more games today than the CAA.

Ovc won more than the socon so its a good thing furman didn’t get in.


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[JSUSoutherner]

Ovc won more than the socon so its a good thing furman didn’t get in.


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We won more than EVERYONE today lol

[BisonFan02]

Just so this is known....my ****ing 3 year old picked every game right today......feel shame. xlolx

[PaladinFan]

Why would this year have anything to do with next year. It is 100% irrelevant. They might very well pick the wrong teams next year, or not, but it better be based on next year's performance and have nothing to do with this year.

The concern I have going forward is that the committee punishes those who are playing stronger schedules and playing better as the season progresses.

Stony Brook had 7 wins. Furman had 6. Stony Brook played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and lost to 2-8 Albany in the last week of the season. Furman had won six of seven games to end the year and played tougher OOC.

I'm not trumping Furman up here, but I raise the issue to point out that the committee basically incentivized a team like Stony Brook to play crap teams and made it irrelevant whether they were playing good football leading into the playoffs. They apparently only care about the win total regardless of who you played to get there.

The idea that you can play a weak schedule and lose to terrible teams in the week prior to the post season and still make the field is just beyond me. The only rationale is that the win total is really the thing that matters.

[ElCid]

The concern I have going forward is that the committee punishes those who are playing stronger schedules and playing better as the season progresses.

Stony Brook had 7 wins. Furman had 6. Stony Brook played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and lost to 2-8 Albany in the last week of the season. Furman had won six of seven games to end the year and played tougher OOC.

I'm not trumping Furman up here, but I raise the issue to point out that the committee basically incentivized a team like Stony Brook to play crap teams and made it irrelevant whether they were playing good football leading into the playoffs. They apparently only care about the win total regardless of who you played to get there.

The idea that you can play a weak schedule and lose to terrible teams in the week prior to the post season and still make the field is just beyond me. The only rationale is that the win total is really the thing that matters.

And all that happened this year. They need to look at next year totally new. I just didn't like that you said they need to look at this year's playoff performance as an input to next year's selection.

[clawman]

Why reduce it? To avoid bad outcomes for your conference? Teams and their fans that beat CAA teams today are getting a taste of the playoffs and playoff wins for the first time and that leads to greater interest and support of the subdivision which leads to greater competition.

Wanting to reduce the field is sour grapes and for those who don't like more football.
xthumbsupx

[PaladinFan]

And all that happened this year. They need to look at next year totally new. I just didn't like that you said they need to look at this year's playoff performance as an input to next year's selection.


If I said something to that effect, that is not what I meant.

[centennial]

THE Colonial Fraud Conference. Bunch of mediocre teams padding stats by not playing each other.

[thebootfitter]

I'm hearing this a lot, but I don't think it's quite correct. I don't believe the "at least 50% autobids" rule is part of the NCAA DI bylaws. If I recall correctly, it's an FCS policy. It's a nitpicking difference between the two, but an FCS policy is a lot easier to change than a DI bylaw.

That said, I don't expect it to change, and I like 24 teams.I'd be happy to be wrong on this. I'm not tied to the answer at all. I'm just pretty certain that I'm not wrong. I'm trying to dig a little deeper now to see if I can find confirmation.

The basketball tourney is 32 auto-bids plus at least 32 at-large selections. Pretty sure the rule applies to basketball.

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[ElCid]

THE Colonial Fraud Conference. Bunch of mediocre teams padding stats by not playing each other.

I think the Big Sky does that as well. I dont like the whole idea of 12 or 13 teams in a conf. Too easy to make a team look good when they miss the best teams in a conf.

[thebootfitter]

The idea that you can play a weak schedule and lose to terrible teams in the week prior to the post season and still make the field is just beyond me. The only rationale is that the win total is really the thing that matters.
Pretty sure the committee may have different criteria each year. At least different opinions are expressed that leads to different decisions being made.


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[Bisonoline]

Pretty sure the committee may have different criteria each year. At least different opinions are expressed that leads to different decisions being made.


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They seem to value different scenarios every year so one never knows what they will give creedance to from one year to the other. All you have do listen to the talking head from the committee this year explain away some of their picks and why.

[Thumper 76]

They seem to value different scenarios every year so one never knows what they will give creedance to from one year to the other. All you have do listen to the talking head from the committee this year explain away some of their picks and why.

Changing people on the committee ends up in changing the philosophy for choosing at larges and seeding. Makes it tough when you schedule years in advance to know the best way to get in.


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[ElCid]

Changing people on the committee ends up in changing the philosophy for choosing at larges and seeding. Makes it tough when you schedule years in advance to know the best way to get in.


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Take them out of the equation and just win every game. LOL.

[Hammersmith]

I'd be happy to be wrong on this. I'm not tied to the answer at all. I'm just pretty certain that I'm not wrong. I'm trying to dig a little deeper now to see if I can find confirmation.

The basketball tourney is 32 auto-bids plus at least 32 at-large selections. Pretty sure the rule applies to basketball.

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We might both be right or wrong(in a way). I found the 50% rule(bylaw 34.3.1.7), but I think they made an error because it doesn't appear to apply to football. There's one rule for MBB and one for everything else. The rule for everything else initially excludes football and any sport where AQ does not apply. But then it never returns to say what the football criteria is. That would mean there is no AQ/AL criteria for football.


31.3.4.7 Limitations on Automatic-Qualifying Positions.
31.3.4.7.1 Team Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball. In team sports, per Bylaw 31.3.4.6-(a), excluding football and any team sport in which automatic qualification is not offered, the sport committee must award, if a sufficient number of applications for automatic qualification exist, at least 50 percent of the championship field to conferences that meet automatic-qualification criteria and provide play-in criteria. In sports other than men’s volleyball, men’s water polo and women’s water polo, the remaining 50 percent of the championship field shall be reserved for at-large teams. It will be the responsibility of the Council to determine if a conference play-in to a championship field is to be administered by the NCAA championships staff or by the member conference.

[Thumper 76]

Take them out of the equation and just win every game. LOL.

As an SDSU fan I’ve been saying this for years to our fans complaining about going to Fargo. We control if we get sent there or not by winning or losing games. Don’t put yourself at the mercy of the committee.


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[thebootfitter]

I'd be happy to be wrong on this. I'm not tied to the answer at all. I'm just pretty certain that I'm not wrong. I'm trying to dig a little deeper now to see if I can find confirmation.

The basketball tourney is 32 auto-bids plus at least 32 at-large selections. Pretty sure the rule applies to basketball.

Sent from my Pixel XL using TapatalkWhile not a 100% confirmation yet, my personal NCAA source believes that I am mistaken on this. It may be that each sport gets to determine participation in their own championship tournaments.

Still digging for more.


Oops... Missed your post above. Interesting. I wonder if they're only referring to FBS teams, since they don't have auto-bids? But FCS clearly does.

[Hammersmith]

While not a 100% confirmation yet, my personal NCAA source believes that I am mistaken on this. It may be that each sport gets to determine participation in their own championship tournaments.

Still digging for more.

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I think you're correct, but the bylaw is written really weird for football. I'll quote it again in case you missed it above.


31.3.4.7 Limitations on Automatic-Qualifying Positions.
31.3.4.7.1 Team Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball. In team sports, per Bylaw 31.3.4.6-(a), excluding football and any team sport in which automatic qualification is not offered, the sport committee must award, if a sufficient number of applications for automatic qualification exist, at least 50 percent of the championship field to conferences that meet automatic-qualification criteria and provide play-in criteria. In sports other than men’s volleyball, men’s water polo and women’s water polo, the remaining 50 percent of the championship field shall be reserved for at-large teams. It will be the responsibility of the Council to determine if a conference play-in to a championship field is to be administered by the NCAA championships staff or by the member conference.

I think it says that all sports except football, MBB, and sports that don't have AQ, must have at least 50% AQ spots. It also says that the remaining 50% has to be at-large, except for MVB, MWP & WWP. But does it apply to FB? The way it's worded, it seems to not apply to the initially excluded sports(because it uses the term "remaining"). But it doesn't say that explicitly. So you could say it requires at least 50% of the FB field to be at-large bids. Stupid bylaws, yuck.

edit: I take it back. I'm becoming convinced you're completely correct. I'm still not sure exactly what sentence 1 means, but sentence 2 seems to include FB and says 50% of the field should be at-large selections.

Everyone else, sorry about the drift. Blame a late night.

[JayJ79]

Why reduce it? To avoid bad outcomes for your conference? Teams and their fans that beat CAA teams today are getting a taste of the playoffs and playoff wins for the first time and that leads to greater interest and support of the subdivision which leads to greater competition.

Wanting to reduce the field is sour grapes and for those who don't like more football.
Benefit of the 24-team field: the top teams don't have to play a game on Thanksgiving weekend (when most schools have been on break for the past week, and many fans have family obligations, thus crowds are always smaller than they otherwise would be).

[Daytripper]

Benefit of the 24-team field: the top teams don't have to play a game on Thanksgiving weekend (when most schools have been on break for the past week, and many fans have family obligations, thus crowds are always smaller than they otherwise would be).

Also, more teams get to enjoy the thrill of their team competing in the playoffs...except Furman and FuGamebreaker...... because, you know, Furman Sucks.

[MTfan4life]

I don't think it has anything to do with more football. I'm a fan of team who's team plays in a one bid league yet I think 24 are too many.

If the CAA didn't get 6 teams in it would have been someone else filling the space. Having 6 CAA teams in just makes it easier to point figures. Otherwise it would be individual teams getting dumped on for not "belonging". I'm of the belief there's too many meaningless games with 24 spots.

The point is to crown the best team not hand out playoff participation trophies. The best team simply does not come from a pool of 12-24.

There are no meaningless games in playoff football. The winner advances. After a long slate of conference games, it's nice to see teams pitted against each other away from who they normally play. I doubt Montana State and Incarnate Word will face each other too often down the road. Nor will UNI/Lamar, Stony Brook/SEMO, or Nicholls/San Diego. I mentioned this elsewhere, but these are late season games between teams exclusively with above .500 records. Those should always be exciting, or at the least, intriguing. Plus, like kalm said, more FCS play is always good.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There are no meaningless games in playoff football. The winner advances. After a long slate of conference games, it's nice to see teams pitted against each other away from who they normally play. I doubt Montana State and Incarnate Word will face each other too often down the road. Nor will UNI/Lamar, Stony Brook/SEMO, or Nicholls/San Diego. I mentioned this elsewhere, but these are late season games between teams exclusively with above .500 records. Those should always be exciting, or at the least, intriguing. Plus, like kalm said, more FCS play is always good.

I'm just not that intrigued but intersectional games between teams that have no chance to win to the title. The definition of a meaningless game is open for interpretation. I think NDSU will roll Montana State. I think the IW-Montana State was nothing but selecting which lamb heads to Fargo. Even watching it seemed pointless to me. Maybe NDSU loses but I'll hedge my bets. Even Duquesne beating Towson wasn't a huge shock to me. Towson was just there to fill out the field like Delaware. The JMU-UD "conference game" was terrible football. UD didn't have any decent QB's healthy enough to play. It was a great win for Duquesne and the NEC from a bragging right standpoint. I'm interested to see how they do against SDSU. Hopefully it's a good show. Lamar-UNI was like watching an opening round NIT game. Just middling football.

I also think there's way too many bowl games. To me more is not better at the FBS level either. I'd be much happier to higher quality bowl games that pit 8+ win teams together rather than handing out participation trophies and bowl swag to anyone with a .500 record.

[Lorne_Malvo]

People are always free to turn off the TV and go play outside.

[PaladinFan]

Also, more teams get to enjoy the thrill of their team competing in the playoffs...except Furman and FuGamebreaker...... because, you know, Furman Sucks.

Sorry. I couldn't hear you from behind our National Championship Trophy.

[PaladinFan]

The 1st CAA team who shouldn’t have gotten in was Elon.
But Elon (6-4) destroyed Furman (6-4) 45-7..

I think that is some of the argument, though. By season's end, Elon was playing bad football and was promptly eliminated. Furman was one of the hottest teams in the country.

Realistically, I think you could make a much stronger argument that Furman deserved in over a team like Stony Brook. Stony Brook was a 7 win team, played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and did not even play Elon (despite being in the same conference). The last week of the season, Stony Brook lost to a 2-8 Albany team.

I get why Elon was in ahead of Furman. It's hard to see why Stony Brook was. They played a weaker schedule, had 1 more win, didn't play Maine or Elon, and lost to an awful team the last week of the season.

With the CAA's scheduling, they are able to protect some teams by the sheer fact that their best teams won't play each other. So, they'll consistently end up with a bunch of 7-4ish type teams. The SoCon, perhaps, is perceived weaker because our teams actually have to run the gauntlet. The CAA teams don't. They were exposed yesterday.

[kalm]

I think the Big Sky does that as well. I dont like the whole idea of 12 or 13 teams in a conf. Too easy to make a team look good when they miss the best teams in a conf.

Yep, it happens but the Big Sky also (has to) typically face challenging OOC schedules unlike the CAA and SoCon.

[BDKJMU]

I think that is some of the argument, though. By season's end, Elon was playing bad football and was promptly eliminated. Furman was one of the hottest teams in the country.

Realistically, I think you could make a much stronger argument that Furman deserved in over a team like Stony Brook. Stony Brook was a 7 win team, played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and did not even play Elon (despite being in the same conference). The last week of the season, Stony Brook lost to a 2-8 Albany team.

I get why Elon was in ahead of Furman. It's hard to see why Stony Brook was. They played a weaker schedule, had 1 more win, didn't play Maine or Elon, and lost to an awful team the last week of the season.
Looking at the three 7-4/5-3 CAA teams, SBU beat UD, UD beat TU, and TU beat SBU.
Vs those 7-4/5-3 teams, Elon lost @ UD, was destroyed @ TU, and only had the 6 wins. So if 1 of the 6 CAA had to be left out, the 1st one was CLEARLY Elon.

On the JMU board I argued last week that Elon should be the 1st 1 out because of the above and because you can’t get hypothetical credit for a game you failed to play. Bottom line for the 6 win teams that played 10 games (Elon, Furman, Incarnate), they failed to play/reschedule an 11th game and failed to get 7 wins.

So Elon shouldn’t have been in, but 6-4 Elon HAD to be ahead of 6-4 Furman in the pecking order because Elon destroyed Furman 45-7.

So the correct thing to do IMHOP would have been to put in Larry Bird U over Elon, and Furman over one of the Southland.

[GoBlueHens83]

I think that is some of the argument, though. By season's end, Elon was playing bad football and was promptly eliminated. Furman was one of the hottest teams in the country.

Realistically, I think you could make a much stronger argument that Furman deserved in over a team like Stony Brook. Stony Brook was a 7 win team, played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and did not even play Elon (despite being in the same conference). The last week of the season, Stony Brook lost to a 2-8 Albany team.

I get why Elon was in ahead of Furman. It's hard to see why Stony Brook was. They played a weaker schedule, had 1 more win, didn't play Maine or Elon, and lost to an awful team the last week of the season.

With the CAA's scheduling, they are able to protect some teams by the sheer fact that their best teams won't play each other. So, they'll consistently end up with a bunch of 7-4ish type teams. The SoCon, perhaps, is perceived weaker because our teams actually have to run the gauntlet. The CAA teams don't. They were exposed yesterday.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the CAA just isn't that good this year. I wouldn't have had much of a problem with any combination of Elon, Delaware, Stony Brook or Towson being left out.

Stony Brook did not play a weaker schedule than Furman. Massey had them fairly close with SB at 21 and Furman at 28. (according to the SOS on the last How They Fared spreadsheet.)

Furman could have made the playoffs had they beat ETSU or Samford, but they didn't. They have no one to blame but themselves. The Paladins not even being mentioned in the first teams left out is telling.

[MR. CHICKEN]

!..........FOOTBALL PLAYERS &....MOS' FANS......WANT MO' FOOTBALL
2.........SKEDS MADE UP IN ADVANCE......CRAPPY OOC's.......COOD EASILY.....BE HEADKNOCKERS
3.........NEC/PIONEER........SHOW US......DERE ARE NO GIMMIES
4.........CRY ALL YA'S WANT.......REGIONALIZATION...$$$$$!
5.........LARGE CONFERENCES....(CAA NOT ALONE)
6.........BAD WEATHER ON EAST COAST.....(BOTH TEAMS PLAY IN IT)....IS UH GREAT EQUALIZER
7.........ONCE IN WHILE.......YOU'LL GET UH STINKER FIELD.....WHAT'S IT MATTERAH........TOURNEY...OWNED BAH........FARGO!

[MR. CHICKEN]

I think that is some of the argument, though. By season's end, Elon was playing bad football and was promptly eliminated. Furman was one of the hottest teams in the country.

Realistically, I think you could make a much stronger argument that Furman deserved in over a team like Stony Brook. Stony Brook was a 7 win team, played Fordham and Bryant out of conference and did not even play Elon (despite being in the same conference). The last week of the season, Stony Brook lost to a 2-8 Albany team.

I get why Elon was in ahead of Furman. It's hard to see why Stony Brook was. They played a weaker schedule, had 1 more win, didn't play Maine or Elon, and lost to an awful team the last week of the season.

With the CAA's scheduling, they are able to protect some teams by the sheer fact that their best teams won't play each other. So, they'll consistently end up with a bunch of 7-4ish type teams. The SoCon, perhaps, is perceived weaker because our teams actually have to run the gauntlet. The CAA teams don't. They were exposed yesterday.

...........MIGHT NOT............BRAWK!

[Cocky]

The problem is judging this years team on last year or historical records. Reputation and perception outrank play in the committees eyes.

[WestCoastAggie]

O-V-C! O-V-C! O-V-C! :D

Sandbagger!

[kdinva]

I dont like the whole idea of 12 or 13 teams in a conf. Too easy to make a team look good when they miss the best teams in a conf.

this........but no one wants six team leagues, either....... xdontknowx

[BDKJMU]

Let's be honest, in a 16 team field, none of the four teams that lost today would have been playing. Personally, I didn't think any of the four were particularly good and the only loss that could really be called surprising was Towson/Duquesne. Once I saw the bracket, I figured JMU was the only team with a chance to win two games. Disappointing day for the conference button exactly the armageddon people are describing it as.
Nope, in a 16 team field likely 2 of those 4 CAA that lost would have gotten in..

Here’s your 16 team field based on the 10 AQ and 6 at large based on the current (through week 12) SRS:
AQ:
NDSU
Weber St
Wofford
Maine
Nicholls St
JSU
Kennesaw St
Colgate
Duquesne
San Diego

At large:
#4 EWU
#5 UCD
#7 SDSU
#9 JMU
#12 TU
#16 SBU
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/simple-ratings-system

So with a 16 team field you would have had:
-4 CAA
-3 Big Sky
-2 MVC
-1 from each of the other 7 conferences.

[kalm]

Nope, in a 16 team field likely 2 of those 4 CAA that lost would have gotten in..

Here’s your 16 team field based on the 10 AQ and 6 at large based on the current (through week 12) SRS:
AQ:
NDSU
Weber St
Wofford
Maine
Nicholls St
JSU
Kennesaw St
Colgate
Duquesne
San Diego

At large:
#4 EWU
#5 UCD
#7 SDSU
#9 JMU
#12 TU
#16 SBU
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/football/fcs/simple-ratings-system

So with a 16 team field you would have had:
-4 CAA
-3 Big Sky
-2 MVC
-1 from each of the other 7 conferences.

But the committee doesn't necessarily follow the SRS always which is good because it's shyte.

[kalm]

The problem is judging this years team on last year or historical records. Reputation and perception outrank play in the committees eyes.

Agree to a certain extent. But there's also something to be said for playoff experience - dealing with logistics, practice schedules, etc. It's a weak metric but if you have two practically identical resumes it's tough to not select the one who performed better the previous year. That's why I was surprised Maine got the seed over JMU.

[Houndawg]

I think the university would like to move up, and a majority of fans would support it(some would hate it, of course), but there would have to be an invitation that's just not coming. Look at a map of G5 conferences. See that nice big void in the upper midwest that Fargo is in the middle of? That's why NDSU is still in the FCS. If Fargo was a top-50 media market or something, maybe things would be different. But it isn't and they're not.

Better to be a big duck in a small pond than have to recruit against CA, FL, and TX schools, imo.

[fc97]

Looking at the three 7-4/5-3 CAA teams, SBU beat UD, UD beat TU, and TU beat SBU.
Vs those 7-4/5-3 teams, Elon lost @ UD, was destroyed @ TU, and only had the 6 wins. So if 1 of the 6 CAA had to be left out, the 1st one was CLEARLY Elon.

On the JMU board I argued last week that Elon should be the 1st 1 out because of the above and because you can’t get hypothetical credit for a game you failed to play. Bottom line for the 6 win teams that played 10 games (Elon, Furman, Incarnate), they failed to play/reschedule an 11th game and failed to get 7 wins.

So Elon shouldn’t have been in, but 6-4 Elon HAD to be ahead of 6-4 Furman in the pecking order because Elon destroyed Furman 45-7.

So the correct thing to do IMHOP would have been to put in Larry Bird U over Elon, and Furman over one of the Southland.

And to Elon's penalty is criticizing over the loss of an away game. W&M canceled, W&M refused to reschedule, we couldn't find another game for the normal bye week.

I think the difference here is Elon had the game canceled on them and had a conference mate refuse the schedule.

Furman was the one that canceled their game (right it wrong) and then Comgaye refused to reschedule after.

[walliver]

I like the 20 team field because 12 teams get first round byes.

Playing 8 games on Thanksgiving weekend competing head-to/head against big time rivalry weekend is not going to bring in big crowds.

My long term view of the committee is that it is a reactionary body. Each year they tend to react to previous years’s criticisms. Next year, I fully expect them to limit conferences to 4 teams and give multiple bids to lesser conferences. :(

[caribbeanhen]

There are no meaningless games in playoff football. The winner advances. After a long slate of conference games, it's nice to see teams pitted against each other away from who they normally play. I doubt Montana State and Incarnate Word will face each other too often down the road. Nor will UNI/Lamar, Stony Brook/SEMO, or Nicholls/San Diego. I mentioned this elsewhere, but these are late season games between teams exclusively with above .500 records. Those should always be exciting, or at the least, intriguing. Plus, like kalm said, more FCS play is always good.

I'm in this camp!

I liked the matchups yesterday and could care a less if they have no chance to win the title.....

For what it's worth, Stony dominated SEMO in the first half, but SEMO came out smoking in the second half which is why we play 2 half's right...

never saw what happend to Average Joe Carbone, but he was out when I checked back in on that game..... benched or injured?

[clenz]

CAAnt win a playoff game

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Redbird 4th & short]

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the CAA just isn't that good this year. I wouldn't have had much of a problem with any combination of Elon, Delaware, Stony Brook or Towson being left out.

Stony Brook did not play a weaker schedule than Furman. Massey had them fairly close with SB at 21 and Furman at 28. (according to the SOS on the last How They Fared spreadsheet.)

Furman could have made the playoffs had they beat ETSU or Samford, but they didn't. They have no one to blame but themselves. The Paladins not even being mentioned in the first teams left out is telling.
but how was Furman not in the discussion given Southland got two 6-4 teams in with an at large. Both of which, Furman had a tougher SOS (per Massey anyway) and a better quality win (Wofford). Incarnate Word had no wins over top 25 or playoff teams. And Lamar's only win over a playoff team was against a highly questionable IW ... as in, somebody had to twin that game .. they played. Granted Lamar got hot .. but they got hot against a bunch of average teams in a below average conference. So while Furman getting left out isn't the crime of the century, it is curious 6-4 Furman was not mentioned as bubble team, but 6-4 Lamar and 6-4 IW got in. Surely they were all discussed in the same vain .. unless Southland was getting a payback for 8-2 McNeese St getting snubbed a year ago.

As far as 8-2 McNeese St from a year ago ... their SOS ranked 86th. Their best win was over 6-5 SELA at home by 10. They beat 4 teams with just 1 or 2 wins ... with 2 of those 4 by 10 points or less, a 3rd by just 15 points. They didn't play SHSU and they lost to UCA by 30. Their 8-2 was not playoff material .. zero impressive wins, in fact 4 or 5 very weak wins.

To make it more suspect, this was by all accounts a down year for Southland with perenniel playoff contenders SHSU and UCA falling off to 6-5. Yet they go from a 2 bid league to a 3 bid league, with two teams being 6-4 .. while an 8-2 rightly stayed home a year ago .. just odd.

And I know that Lamar more than held their own against 6-5 UNI yesterday .. but that has little to do with point. Point being ... Why did Southland get two 6-4 teams in during what is clearly a down year. While 6-4 ISUb stayed home (much tougher SOS) and 6-4 Furman (tougher SOS) wasn't even mentioned as a bubble team. Two 6-4 teams from Southland ... really ? Only alleged "quality" win was game they played each other.

Payback deal ???

[GoBlueHens83]

but how was Furman not in the discussion given Southland got two 6-4 teams in with an at large. Both of which, Furman had a tougher SOS (per Massey anyway) and a better quality win (Wofford). Incarnate Word had no wins over top 25 or playoff teams. And Lamar's only win over a playoff team was against a highly questionable IW ... as in, somebody had to twin that game .. they played. Granted Lamar got hot .. but they got hot against a bunch of average teams in a below average conference. So while Furman getting left out isn't the crime of the century, it is curious 6-4 Furman was not mentioned as bubble team, but 6-4 Lamar and 6-4 IW got in. Surely they were all discussed in the same vain .. unless Southland was getting a payback for 8-2 McNeese St getting snubbed a year ago.

As far as 8-2 McNeese St from a year ago ... their SOS ranked 86th. Their best win was over 6-5 SELA at home. They beat 4 teams with just 1 or 2 wins ... with 2 of those 4 by 10 points or less, a 3rd by just 15 points. They didn't play SHSU and they lost to UCA by 30. Their 8-2 was not playoff material .. zero impressive wins and several weak losses.

To make it more suspect, this was by all accounts a down year for Southland with perenniel playoff contenders SHSU and UCA falling off to 6-5. Yet they go from a 2 bid league to a 3 bid league, with two teams being 6-4 .. while an 8-2 rightly stayed home a year ago .. just odd.

And I know that Lamar more than held their own against 6-5 UNI yesterday .. but that has little to do with point. Point being ... Why did Southland get two 6-4 teams in during what is clearly a down year. While 6-4 ISUb stayed home (much tougher SOS) and 6-4 Furman (tougher SOS) wasn't even a bubble team. Two 6-4 teams from Southland ... really ? Only alleged "quality" win was game they played each other. Payback deal ???

I never said that the other Southland teams deserved it more than Furman. As far as why they were never in the discussion, I don't know. Furman and ISUb should have been in over UIW in my honest opinion. I think Lamar proved yesterday that they should have been there with a strong showing at UNI.

[Redbird 4th & short]

This year will go down as the "FCS Year of Parity" .. after Bison. I thought 6 was too many for CAA, but there just was not a strong argument that any of the 6 should have been obviously pushed off the bubble ... especially given two 6-4 Southland teams got in, while 6-4 MVFC and Southern teams got left home. So it kind of made sense they got 6 even if not deserved. Which is why this will go down as the FCS Year of Parity.

But FCS parity is just not a good argument for reducing the # of playoff teams. PLayoffs are about rewarding the best teams with a shot in post season. Top 24 out of 100+ teams is not too many .. it is lower % than most team sports at most levels.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wait until Colgate beats JMU this weekend

[GoBlueHens83]

Wait until Colgate beats JMU this weekend

Wouldn't surprise me to see no CAA teams left after next Saturday.

[PaladinFan]

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the CAA just isn't that good this year. I wouldn't have had much of a problem with any combination of Elon, Delaware, Stony Brook or Towson being left out.

Stony Brook did not play a weaker schedule than Furman. Massey had them fairly close with SB at 21 and Furman at 28. (according to the SOS on the last How They Fared spreadsheet.)

Furman could have made the playoffs had they beat ETSU or Samford, but they didn't. They have no one to blame but themselves. The Paladins not even being mentioned in the first teams left out is telling.

I have no issue with criticism that Furman could have solved all of this by holding a big lead against ETSU. Hold a 27-6 lead and Furman is the sole SoCon champ and autobid.

The contrary position is, of course, that Stony Brook would have "no one to blame but themselves" if they were left off after losing to Albany. That's the very nature of being an at-large bubble team. It becomes a beauty contest.

I realize Furman wasn't in the first three out. I think that is ridiculous. I think most FCS observers nationally (who virtually all had Furman in the field) thought that was ridiculous. I'd have found that to be ridiculous even if I wasn't a Furman fan. Even those that didn't have Furman in the field had them as the first one out.

[MacThor]

The CAA had a down year and a bad day. None of the 6 CAA teams were even on the bubble. All three of the bubble teams lost as well.

Here are the results in the last 10 playoffs (Number of times a school from that conference has reached that level/number of different schools from that conference to reach that level):

Titles

MVFC 6/1
CAA 3/3
Big Sky 1/1


NC Games

MVFC 8/3
CAA 6/5
Big Sky 3/2
Southland 2/1
OVC 1/1


Final Fours

CAA 12/7
MVFC 11/5
Big Sky 7/2
Southland 5/1
Southern 4/2 (both are now FBS)
OVC 1/1



It's hardly an overrated conference. "CAAn't win a playoff game." OK......

[Cocky]

None of the bottom teams or the ones left out have much of a gripe. Win a few more and you dont have to worry about seeding or joining the party.

[mcveyrl]

I don’t post here much anymore, just lurk, so this may have been discussed but what if you limited it to the top third of a conference being eligible for the playoffs. Use the same AQ tiebreakers to determine top third.

For one I think it makes the end of the regular season a little more exciting and it would also get some other teams in that are probably just as deserving as the (using this year as an example) fifth and sixth best CAA teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

CAA has been the most consistently good conference for the last *25* years. The MVFC being the best happened in the last 5 years. The CAA just had a bad year this year. Don't dismiss data for anecdote.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[MTfan4life]

I'm just not that intrigued but intersectional games between teams that have no chance to win to the title. The definition of a meaningless game is open for interpretation. I think NDSU will roll Montana State. I think the IW-Montana State was nothing but selecting which lamb heads to Fargo. Even watching it seemed pointless to me. Maybe NDSU loses but I'll hedge my bets. Even Duquesne beating Towson wasn't a huge shock to me. Towson was just there to fill out the field like Delaware. The JMU-UD "conference game" was terrible football. UD didn't have any decent QB's healthy enough to play. It was a great win for Duquesne and the NEC from a bragging right standpoint. I'm interested to see how they do against SDSU. Hopefully it's a good show. Lamar-UNI was like watching an opening round NIT game. Just middling football.

I also think there's way too many bowl games. To me more is not better at the FBS level either. I'd be much happier to higher quality bowl games that pit 8+ win teams together rather than handing out participation trophies and bowl swag to anyone with a .500 record.

To be fair, what team wouldn't be a lamb heading to Fargo for slaughter? If the FCS just automatically put NDSU in the title game and had a 24 team playoff for the other title game participant, most of the teams would have at least an outside chance to make that championship game. There'd be no guarantees, especially after seeing the results from most of this season. It'd be a pretty wild tournament!

[Scooter]

So, If JMU wins the title this year the CAA is still ****ty?
I think there are 2 great teams 3 damn good teams and 5 good in the FCS. JMU is a great team. SDSU, EWU and Weber are damn good. Maine, UC Davis, Colgate, Wofford and Kenneshaw are good.

I think the loss to Butler by YSU doomed the MVFC from getting 4 teams and gave the CAA one extra.

[Bisonwinagn]

The entire FCS is down this year and is the worst it has been since NDSU moved up to D1. Although that was predicted since most of the top teams from last year lost their best players. The CAA was mediocre, but still deserving of the playoff teams since the rest of the league was so bad. Just an unusual year.

[BDKJMU]

So, If JMU wins the title this year the CAA is still ****ty?
I think there are 2 great teams 3 damn good teams and 5 good in the FCS. JMU is a great team. SDSU, EWU and Weber are damn good. Maine, UC Davis, Colgate, Wofford and Kenneshaw are good.

I think the loss to Butler by YSU doomed the MVFC from getting 4 teams and gave the CAA one extra.
JMU has great talent (for this level) and has a great program, but is NOT a great team NOW. JMU is a good team (maybe on par SDSU, Weber & EWU) talent wise that probably exceeds anyone else with the exception of NDSU, but lacks experience to be a great team.

Of the 11 offensive starters in last years NC game, only 3 are now starting: 2 OL & WR Riley Stapleton. The ONLY senior starter is RB Cardon Johnson. That’s it. Weak spots on offense have been inconsistent QB play by Dinucci, and inconsistent OL play (best OL, 2nd team All CAA last year, pre season All CAA, suspended 5 games mid-late season, still hasn't returned to starting lineup, caused a reshuffling with former walkon now starting).

Of the 11 defensive starters in last years NC game, the best defense in JMU history, only 4 were non seniors. 3 are playing, but ONLY 1 has been starting, rSr corner Jimmy Moreland, CAA defensive POTY of the year, the ONLY senior starter on defense. The other all world corner, Rashard Robinson, 1st team All CAA/All American last year, pre season CAA Defensive POTY, projected draft pick, suffered season ending turf toe injury a few days before the opener with NC State. He is redshirting and will be back next year. That corner spot has been a revolving door and the one somewhat weak spot ondefense.

Need 3 things to be a great team IMHOP. Coaching, talent, & experience. JMU has 2 of those 3. Lacks the experience & gel. Only 11 seniors of about 113 on roster, youngest I can ever remember going back at least to early 00s). Jekyll & Hyde of a talented but youthful team. 20 of 22 starters back next year, could be = to or better than 2016 & 2017. But not this year.

[PaladinFan]

The entire FCS is down this year and is the worst it has been since NDSU moved up to D1. Although that was predicted since most of the top teams from last year lost their best players. The CAA was mediocre, but still deserving of the playoff teams since the rest of the league was so bad. Just an unusual year.

My hot take.

NDSU joined the FCS and is a really good team.

A lot of the other really good teams in the FCS have left (App State, GSU, Coastal for instance) thereby creating fewer obstacles for NDSU. Maybe NDSU does just what they have done to this point, but I'd bet they probably taken a few more playoff losses if the Eagles and Mountaineers were still at this level.

In the South, and specifically the SoCon, teams are hurt by the glut of college football programs. Over the last 15 years, Division 1 football has been a massively changing landscape with a dozen or more of new programs either moving to D1 or transitioning from FCS to FBS (and thereby adding scholarships) just in this part of the country.

It makes sense that when you take an area of the country (the South) and add hundreds of available scholarship football opportunities that didn't exist 15 years ago, that is going create an increased demand for limited supply. The result is a less polished football product as teams try to fill their roster with guys that maybe weren't even D1 players 15 years ago.

That's not taking anything away from NDSU. They've been fantastic. They are still the most obvious benefactors of a changing football landscape.

[TheKingpin28]

My hot take.

NDSU joined the FCS and is a really good team.

A lot of the other really good teams in the FCS have left (App State, GSU, Coastal for instance) thereby creating fewer obstacles for NDSU. Maybe NDSU does just what they have done to this point, but I'd bet they probably taken a few more playoff losses if the Eagles and Mountaineers were still at this level.

In the South, and specifically the SoCon, teams are hurt by the glut of college football programs. Over the last 15 years, Division 1 football has been a massively changing landscape with a dozen or more of new programs either moving to D1 or transitioning from FCS to FBS (and thereby adding scholarships) just in this part of the country.

It makes sense that when you take an area of the country (the South) and add hundreds of available scholarship football opportunities that didn't exist 15 years ago, that is going create an increased demand for limited supply. The result is a less polished football product as teams try to fill their roster with guys that maybe weren't even D1 players 15 years ago.

That's not taking anything away from NDSU. They've been fantastic. They are still the most obvious benefactors of a changing football landscape.

You do realize that NDSU beat GSU 2x and CCU 2x in the playoffs when they were both FCS schools? The South could try and recruit the BEST PLAYERS in the FCS in the North, but they choose that #SouthernSpeed and get rekt when they face a well built Midwest FCS team. Give me a player for the FCS out of North Dakota, Minnesota, South Dakota over GA, TN, FL, MS, etc... any day of the week.

Just for reference, here are their FBS records:

ASU: 46-16
CCU: 8-16
GSU: 34-27

Overall: 88-59

[jmu007]

My hot take.

NDSU joined the FCS and is a really good team.

A lot of the other really good teams in the FCS have left (App State, GSU, Coastal for instance) thereby creating fewer obstacles for NDSU. Maybe NDSU does just what they have done to this point, but I'd bet they probably taken a few more playoff losses if the Eagles and Mountaineers were still at this level.

In the South, and specifically the SoCon, teams are hurt by the glut of college football programs. Over the last 15 years, Division 1 football has been a massively changing landscape with a dozen or more of new programs either moving to D1 or transitioning from FCS to FBS (and thereby adding scholarships) just in this part of the country.

It makes sense that when you take an area of the country (the South) and add hundreds of available scholarship football opportunities that didn't exist 15 years ago, that is going create an increased demand for limited supply. The result is a less polished football product as teams try to fill their roster with guys that maybe weren't even D1 players 15 years ago.

That's not taking anything away from NDSU. They've been fantastic. They are still the most obvious benefactors of a changing football landscape.

I get the point you're trying to make, but you do your argument no service by including Costal Carolina as an example of how "really good teams" have left FCS.

Additionally, to KingPin's point; JMU has had probably the best 5 year run we've ever had in recruiting since all those schools moved up to FBS. So I guess I just don't see the cause and effect at this point now that we've had a few years to see it play out. Seems that if you go after good players, you tend to get good players.

[caribbeanhen]

JMU has great talent (for this level) and has a great program, but is NOT a great team NOW. JMU is a good team (maybe on par SDSU, Weber & EWU) talent wise that probably exceeds anyone else with the exception of NDSU, but lacks experience to be a great team.

Of the 11 offensive starters in last years NC game, only 3 are now starting: 2 OL & WR Riley Stapleton. The ONLY senior starter is RB Cardon Johnson. That’s it. Weak spots on offense have been inconsistent QB play by Dinucci, and inconsistent OL play (best OL, 2nd team All CAA last year, pre season All CAA, suspended 5 games mid-late season, still hasn't returned to starting lineup, caused a reshuffling with former walkon now starting).

Of the 11 defensive starters in last years NC game, the best defense in JMU history, only 4 were non seniors. 3 are playing, but ONLY 1 has been starting, rSr corner Jimmy Moreland, CAA defensive POTY of the year, the ONLY senior starter on defense. The other all world corner, Rashard Robinson, 1st team All CAA/All American last year, pre season CAA Defensive POTY, projected draft pick, suffered season ending turf toe injury a few days before the opener with NC State. He is redshirting and will be back next year. That corner spot has been a revolving door and the one somewhat weak spot ondefense.

Need 3 things to be a great team IMHOP. Coaching, talent, & experience. JMU has 2 of those 3. Lacks the experience & gel. Only 11 seniors of about 113 on roster, youngest I can ever remember going back at least to early 00s). Jekyll & Hyde of a talented but youthful team. 20 of 22 starters back next year, could be = to or better than 2016 & 2017. But not this year.

very nice recap on JMU, still good but not great like 2016, Bison will eat the Dukes Alpo if you get by Colgate that is

[Redbird 4th & short]

The CAA had a down year and a bad day. None of the 6 CAA teams were even on the bubble. All three of the bubble teams lost as well.

Here are the results in the last 10 playoffs (Number of times a school from that conference has reached that level/number of different schools from that conference to reach that level):

Titles

MVFC 6/1
CAA 3/3
Big Sky 1/1


NC Games

MVFC 8/3
CAA 6/5
Big Sky 3/2
Southland 2/1
OVC 1/1


Final Fours

CAA 12/7
MVFC 11/5
Big Sky 7/2
Southland 5/1
Southern 4/2 (both are now FBS)
OVC 1/1



It's hardly an overrated conference. "CAAn't win a playoff game." OK......
How about for 2011-18 period ? Most people realize CAA dominated up until 2010.

[TheKingpin28]

I get the point you're trying to make, but you do your argument no service by including Costal Carolina as an example of how "really good teams" have left FCS.

Additionally, to KingPin's point; JMU has had probably the best 5 year run we've ever had in recruiting since all those schools moved up to FBS. So I guess I just don't see the cause and effect at this point now that we've had a few years to see it play out. Seems that if you go after good players, you tend to get good players.

I have yet to see it since NDSU has almost always fielded solid teams from the area and that includes going up against Minnesota (yes I know but P5 still), Iowa, Iowa St, Wisconsin, and to a lesser extent, Nebraska and the surrounding B1G schools. The thing is, as you said, if you go after good players, you tend to get good players. NDSU goes after power I football players and well, they generally tend to workout. I know some of our skill players are from outside the Midwest, but the local guys can generally do what the 3* and 4* guys do at the P5/G5 level as well.

[MacThor]

How about for 2011-18 period ? Most people realize CAA dominated up until 2010.

You're welcome to do a NDSU-era only analysis. I know it would be less kind to the Big Sky than the CAA (they would have zero Titles and NC Games).

[Derby City Duke]

I love a good blood-letting. Just wish there was a way Maine could've lost today. It's like when Kentucky football fans start chanting 'S-E-C' like they are even remotely relevant nationally more than once in any give 30-year period.

I champion my team, not my team's conference -- the others can all go rot somewhere in mediocrity.

[furpal87]

Okay one question to CAA people...how is determined who plays who? Rotation, computer, previous year's standings? And I would guess there are permanent matchups (Del vs Vill. Rich vs W&M for example). Just wanting to know this as a matter of information.

[ElCid]

I have yet to see it since NDSU has almost always fielded solid teams from the area and that includes going up against Minnesota (yes I know but P5 still), Iowa, Iowa St, Wisconsin, and to a lesser extent, Nebraska and the surrounding B1G schools. The thing is, as you said, if you go after good players, you tend to get good players. NDSU goes after power I football players and well, they generally tend to workout. I know some of our skill players are from outside the Midwest, but the local guys can generally do what the 3* and 4* guys do at the P5/G5 level as well.


It is a hard comparison to be sure. And recruiting will always be program specific to fit the needs of the scheme. But there are a crap load of new Div I teams we now have to deal with in the SE that 25 years ago we did not. There are probably 20-25 new or moved up Div I schools in the SE (move ups from Div II or new programs or move ups to FBS 63/85) that we have to compete with now. Some of that has been mitigated by population growth, but not all. There are a total of 60 Div I teams in the states of VA, NC, SC, GA, Tenn, and Ala. That is the home state footprint of the SOCON, 60 teams in Div I! the break down is 33 FCS and 27 FBS. At least 16 did not exist at all or were Div II 25 years ago. Lots of FBS moves as well. Oh, and 11 more Div I teams teams in FL where everyone in the country seems to go recruiting. Just as a comparison, the states of Wisconsin, Minn, ND, SD, Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, and Montana have a total of 14 Div I teams with 8 of those being FCS. State population comparison to the earlier SOCON footprint is 44M to the possible Dakota footprint 19M. But I am not sure what the Dakotas footprint is. I just picked what I thought.

What it really means, is we have to do a better job of recruiting. Trust me, my team knows the difficulties. It is an ongoing battle for us. Who wants to get their head shaved, wear uniforms, be told what time to eat, sleep, study, etc. I can imagine that it is tough for the Dakota schools as well since if you are from Florida, who wants to live in the Dakotas?xrotatehx JUST kidding. The players are out there, recruiters just have to work harder to fill the gaps. The NE has some untapped potential in that there are less Div I schools overall per the population. I often wonder if that is why Elon moved to the CAA. Much of their student body was from the north anyway and playing schools from there helps with exposure/recruitment. But even in the NE, there has been some expansion, at least in FCS the last couple decades. Although they have lost some teams as well. The total Div I schools in the NE from Maryland and PA up to the NE is 47 with it weighted heavy towards FCS at 35 to the FBS at 12. They also have a population of 64M.

Just as a data point, my team has 24 players from outside of our Conference footprint. Samford has 24 from outside as well. WCU has 11 from outside. Furman has 16, VMI has 12 but they also have some specific restrictions on getting players from VA so they have 63 Virginians on their team. ETSU has 15. Mercer has 13 from outside the footprint, but is also Georgia heavy at 62. UTC has 12. And finally Wofford has 24 players from outside our geo footprint.

[Derby City Duke]

Okay one question to CAA people...how is determined who plays who? Rotation, computer, previous year's standings? And I would guess there are permanent matchups (Del vs Vill. Rich vs W&M for example). Just wanting to know this as a matter of information.

It's a combination of permanent partners and rotating opponents. I know we play Richmond and W&M every year and it seems like we always play Villanova and I think Elon will be a permanent opponent. I've looked but haven't been able to find the right document that explains the scheduling policy.

[PaladinFan]

It's a combination of permanent partners and rotating opponents. I know we play Richmond and W&M every year and it seems like we always play Villanova and I think Elon will be a permanent opponent. I've looked but haven't been able to find the right document that explains the scheduling policy.

Why not have two divisions and ensure that every season at least some of your best teams play one another?

[PaladinFan]

How about for 2011-18 period ? Most people realize CAA dominated up until 2010.

Not to bicker, but the SoCon did pretty well too. From 2000 to 2010, the SoCon took 4 titles (GSU in 2000, App State in 2005, 2006, 2007). Furman was in the 2001 title game.

[fc97]

Why not have two divisions and ensure that every season at least some of your best teams play one another?

If you did divisions you’d end up with with
1) Elon, JMU, Richmond, W&M, Delaware and Towson
2) Villanova, Stony Brook, Albany, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Maine

With Nova playing Delaware and JMU firm, you’d lose some of the inter-division play.

Plus you almost have a firm case for American East football as you’d have a southern division of CAA and a northern set of American east. I think the setup is to help offset the likelihood of a split.

Just a guess.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Not to bicker, but the SoCon did pretty well too. From 2000 to 2010, the SoCon took 4 titles (GSU in 2000, App State in 2005, 2006, 2007). Furman was in the 2001 title game.

Yep, and then lost 2 strongest programs to FBS. I felt like Southern was re-emerging the past few years, but slipped a bit this year. Heck, everyone seemed to slip this year. Initially looked like Colonial had re-emerged as THE dominant conference .. apparently, the depth is back but the strength at top is not any better. In fact, with JMU not crushing it this year, it is weaker at top but deeper down to 6 teams, plus Villanova looked very solid at times .. so Colonial goes 7 deep with quality teams .. impressive, despite laying the egg yesterday.

Parity sometimes makes everyone look worse ... but results against FBS teams suggest otherwise for FCS. Not really a down year, just more parity and maybe even depth too. Just less consistently strong teams at top right now ... which could simply be a parity issue making otherwise good teams struggle week in and out. I don't think it is zero some game for FCS, since it can always slowly get better (or worse) depending on how well it recruits against FBS, particularly agianst G5.

[MacThor]

Why not have two divisions and ensure that every season at least some of your best teams play one another?

We used to have that; I much preferred it. Then Northeastern & Hofstra terminated football, UMass went FBS, ODU/GA State came and went.....now that we're back to 12 teams I see no reason not to. They may not want to split UD and Villanova (which would be the "geographically correct" division split). They could put Towson in the North - a JMU/Elon "rivalry game" makes as much sense as JMU/Towson.

[PaladinFan]

Yep, and then lost 2 strongest programs to FBS. I felt like Southern was re-emerging the past few years, but slipped a bit this year. Heck, everyone seemed to slip this year. Initially looked like Colonial had re-emerged as THE dominant conference .. apparently, the depth is back but the strength at top is not any better. In fact, with JMU not crushing it this year, it is weaker at top but deeper down to 6 teams, plus Villanova looked very solid at times .. so Colonial goes 7 deep with quality teams .. impressive, despite laying the egg yesterday.

Parity sometimes makes everyone look worse ... but results against FBS teams suggest otherwise for FCS. Not really a down year, just more parity and maybe even depth too. Just less consistently strong teams at top right now ... which could simply be a parity issue making otherwise good teams struggle week in and out. I don't think it is zero some game for FCS, since it can always slowly get better (or worse) depending on how well it recruits against FBS, particularly agianst G5.

While we all saw the GSU/App departure coming, it still had a significant effect on the SoCon. It is hard to even suggest that there is a comparable event for any other conference in the country, as no other FCS conference has two programs of that caliber. It'd be like a conference losing James Madison and NDSU in the same year if they played in the same conference. There is no way that it would not have an impact.

5 years into this transition, I think you are starting to see where the SoCon is going. Things are stabilizing a bit. The new programs have transitioned out of their "start up" rosters. I expect 2019 will be the first year since 2013 where no SoCon team will have a wholesale changeover of their coaching staff.

[PaladinFan]

We used to have that; I much preferred it. Then Northeastern & Hofstra terminated football, UMass went FBS, ODU/GA State came and went.....now that we're back to 12 teams I see no reason not to. They may not want to split UD and Villanova (which would be the "geographically correct" division split). They could put Towson in the North - a JMU/Elon "rivalry game" makes as much sense as JMU/Towson.

As someone in SEC country, I am used to that split, which was the norm until a few years ago. You had 12 teams divided into two divisions. Each team would play the other 5 teams in their division and then have two or three cross over games a year. Some of the cross over games were locked in every season (UT/Bama, Georgia/Auburn).

I'd actually like to see a similar model in the SoCon. Our conference has rarely raided other FCS conferences, but there are some really interesting options out there if the SoCon ever wanted to expand to 12 football teams from the current 9.

[kalm]

Yep, and then lost 2 strongest programs to FBS. I felt like Southern was re-emerging the past few years, but slipped a bit this year. Heck, everyone seemed to slip this year. Initially looked like Colonial had re-emerged as THE dominant conference .. apparently, the depth is back but the strength at top is not any better. In fact, with JMU not crushing it this year, it is weaker at top but deeper down to 6 teams, plus Villanova looked very solid at times .. so Colonial goes 7 deep with quality teams .. impressive, despite laying the egg yesterday.

Parity sometimes makes everyone look worse ... but results against FBS teams suggest otherwise for FCS. Not really a down year, just more parity and maybe even depth too. Just less consistently strong teams at top right now ... which could simply be a parity issue making otherwise good teams struggle week in and out. I don't think it is zero some game for FCS, since it can always slowly get better (or worse) depending on how well it recruits against FBS, particularly agianst G5.

This

[kalm]

My hot take.

NDSU joined the FCS and is a really good team.

A lot of the other really good teams in the FCS have left (App State, GSU, Coastal for instance) thereby creating fewer obstacles for NDSU. Maybe NDSU does just what they have done to this point, but I'd bet they probably taken a few more playoff losses if the Eagles and Mountaineers were still at this level.

In the South, and specifically the SoCon, teams are hurt by the glut of college football programs. Over the last 15 years, Division 1 football has been a massively changing landscape with a dozen or more of new programs either moving to D1 or transitioning from FCS to FBS (and thereby adding scholarships) just in this part of the country.

It makes sense that when you take an area of the country (the South) and add hundreds of available scholarship football opportunities that didn't exist 15 years ago, that is going create an increased demand for limited supply. The result is a less polished football product as teams try to fill their roster with guys that maybe weren't even D1 players 15 years ago.

That's not taking anything away from NDSU. They've been fantastic. They are still the most obvious benefactors of a changing football landscape.

This makes sense but that’s just one area of the country. In the Big Sky, I’m seeing significantly better athletes across the board to the extent that even crappy teams like last year’s ISU can compete and win against FBS. We’re winning more recruiting battles against FBS, placing just as many if not more players in the pros (The CFL Western semifinal featured two EWU QB’s, the single season CFL record holder in tackles, Kupp, Ebukam, etc), and winning more FBS games.

Like Redbird pointed out, much of this is parity at the expense of traditional powers and conferences. SEMO and Duquesne physically beat their CAA opponents. USD has the two playoff wins and played NDSU as tough for a half as many MVFC teams.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Why not have two divisions and ensure that every season at least some of your best teams play one another?
I think that would just formally ensure the best teams don't play all of the other best teams ... but presumably more consistently. But then, who gets the autobid ? Or conference championship if league is split. This is also why MVFC teams are more consistently ranked in top 10/15 in SOS per Massey .. that and we try to schedule decent FBS games, plus the Big Sky challenge in recent years.

Colonial and Big Sky both face this issue with 8 conf games each year and 14 teams in each conference. This means every team will not play 5 of the 13 other teams in their conference. It is no small issue ... the problem is allowing 14 teams in a football conference to begin with. There is almost always 2 or 3 top teams that each of the top teams don't play each other. Maine won the conference because they didn't have to play 3 of the top 4 teams .. and further got a # 7 seed ... no small issue.

In the era since Dakota's joined MVFC, we had just 9 teams thru 2011, so everyone played everyone once for sure thru 2011. Then added USD in 2012 and since then have had rotation to determine which one MVFC team is not played for 2 years, then rotate. This 2 year rotation is also the reason, the home&home rotation gets thrown off ... so the past 2 years, we played MoST on road both games anad WIU at home both years. The next 2 years, we will do that with 2 different teams.

Ironically, NDSU and ISUr were scheduled to not play each for 2014 and 2015 .. which was ironic because we finished tied for 1st both years, so no tie breaker worked .. we both lost 1 game both season and didn't play each other either season. So we were co-champs. There was also another year where NDSU was co-champs with SDSU for same reason. So with 8 game conf schedule, going to 10 teams screws things up. Imagine what happens with 14 teams. And yes, it can be taken advantage of ... similar playoff collapse happened to CAA in 2011 ... they got 5 teams because of how many 1 and 2 loss teams they had in conf games .. because they didnt have to play all the top teams.

[PaladinFan]

This makes sense but that’s just one area of the country. In the Big Sky, I’m seeing significantly better athletes across the board to the extent that even crappy teams like last year’s ISU can compete and win against FBS. We’re winning more recruiting battles against FBS, placing just as many if not more players in the pros (The CFL Western semifinal featured two EWU QB’s, the single season CFL record holder in tackles, Kupp, Ebukam, etc), and winning more FBS games.

Like Redbird pointed out, much of this is parity at the expense of traditional powers and conferences. SEMO and Duquesne physically beat their CAA opponents. USD has the two playoff wins and played NDSU as tough for a half as many MVFC teams.

I don't think this is just an FCS phenomena. I think you are seeing the "parity" in the majority of college football as a select few programs become death stars. We are seeing more "upsets" of FBS programs now because those FBS programs are struggling with the same problem recruiting that the FCS teams are, it is extremely hard to consolidate talent in light of a massive demand.

I had this discussion with my wife's uncle (from Texas) during Thanksgiving. I was ribbing him about following Big 12 football. He made the comment that 15 years ago ESPN started promoting the SEC as the premier college football conference (probably true). That promotion helped the SEC basically raid other parts of the country of their best players. You are now seeing a talent gap in P5 football that is probably as big as it has ever been.

Tua Tagovaiola, Alamba's QB, is from Hawaii. UGA's top running back, Deandre Swift, is from Philadelphia. These programs are stripping other areas of the country of their top talent, consolidating power, and thereby flattening the rest of college football into more "parity." It is the same sort of idea.

What we currently have is a college football landscape where there really isn't much difference between good and mediocre.

[MR. CHICKEN]

....BIG SOUFF...HAS SIX TEAMS/AUTO-BID............CAA-A......CAA-B........BIG FLUFFY-A.....BIG FLUFFY-B.........2 MO'...AUTO-BIDS...........EXPAND DUH TOURNEY.........BRAWK!

[Derby City Duke]

I think that would just formally ensure the best teams don't play all of the other best teams ... but presumably more consistently. But then, who gets the autobid ? Or conference championship if league is split.

Colonial and Big Sky both face this issue with 8 conf games each year and 14 teams in each conference. This means every team will not play 5 of the 13 other teams in their conference. It is no small issue ... the problem is allowing 14 teams in a football conference to begin with. There is almost always 2 or 3 top teams that each of the top teams don't play each other. Maine won the conference because they didn't have to play 3 of the top 4 teams .. and further got a # 7 seed ... no small issue.

In the era since Dakota's joined MVFC, we had just 9 teams thru 2011, so everyone played everyone once for sure thru 2011. Then added USD in 2012 and since then have had rotation to determine which one MVFC team is not played for 2 years, then rotate. This 2 year rotation is also the reason, the home&home rotation gets thrown off ... so the past 2 years, we played MoST on road both games anad WIU at home both years. The next 2 years, we will do that with 2 different teams.

Ironically, NDSU and ISUr were scheduled to not play each for 2014 and 2015 .. which was ironic because we finished tied for 1st both years, so no tie breaker worked .. we both lost 1 game both season and didn't play each other either season. So we were co-champs. There was also another year where NDSU was co-champs with SDSU for same reason. So with 8 game conf schedule, going to 10 teams screws things up. Imagine what happens with 14 teams. And yes, it can be taken advantage of ... similar playoff collapse happened to CAA in 2011 ... they got 5 teams because of how many 1 and 2 loss teams they had in conf games .. because they didnt have to play all the top teams.

The CAA only has 12 teams, but you are on-target with large conference sizes. I've always thought conferences should be capped in size at 9 -- typical year has 8 conference games w/3 OOC matchups. Having the odd # brings about some scheduling challenges but they are not insurmountable.

When the A-10/CAA had 12 teams the first time around, we had 2 divisions - North and South. You played the 5 teams in your division and 3 of the 6 teams in the other divisions in a 2-year rotation (home-and-home). Hardly ever got a true picture of who is was really good or who benefited from the scheduling quirks. The easy solution would be to ship Rhody, Maine and Albany off to the NEC xthumbsupx to get the CAA back to 9 teams.

[kalm]

I don't think this is just an FCS phenomena. I think you are seeing the "parity" in the majority of college football as a select few programs become death stars. We are seeing more "upsets" of FBS programs now because those FBS programs are struggling with the same problem recruiting that the FCS teams are, it is extremely hard to consolidate talent in light of a massive demand.

I had this discussion with my wife's uncle (from Texas) during Thanksgiving. I was ribbing him about following Big 12 football. He made the comment that 15 years ago ESPN started promoting the SEC as the premier college football conference (probably true). That promotion helped the SEC basically raid other parts of the country of their best players. You are now seeing a talent gap in P5 football that is probably as big as it has ever been.

Tua Tagovaiola, Alamba's QB, is from Hawaii. UGA's top running back, Deandre Swift, is from Philadelphia. These programs are stripping other areas of the country of their top talent, consolidating power, and thereby flattening the rest of college football into more "parity." It is the same sort of idea.

What we currently have is a college football landscape where there really isn't much difference between good and mediocre.

I don't see that as being nearly as much the case with FCS though. Sure there are some FCS programs with the budget or connections to raid other regions and everyone still recruits the hot spots like Cali and Seattle, but in general at least out here it's still mostly PNW kids. SUU has mostly Utah kids. There are a ton of Montana kids on the Griz and Cat's rosters. NDSU it's still primarily midwest.

[clenz]

NDSU and SDSU didn't have a year they sit the title because they didn't play

The years ISU and NDSU split the title MDSU got the auto both years because there were still applicable tie breaker rules.

Starting in 2020 the MVFC is essentially going to divisional set up without officially doing so

Patty V has said that rivalries and geography will be protected and has said that the Dakota 4 along with UNI will play each other every year. Maybe she changes her mind but I doubt it

The split will be

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU

Sounds like MSU will be a floater between the two since they are a flight everywhere.

But Patty V also said 11 wasn't a viable option for a football conference and we all know the MVC is trying to find a 12th member to partner with Murray. Meaning we all know Murray is MVFX school by2020 or 2021. That will shift MOSU to the west full time and we will be a division set up of

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
MOSU

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU
MUSU

5 divisional games and 3 cross overs that will be set up in a H/A split so everyone has 4 home and 4 road conference games

We may even see one cross over protected rival

1 champ out if a 2 division set up and no title game (because making that work at the FCS level is way to damn much work) and we all know just how damn imbalanced these divisions will be.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[phoenix3]

Honestly, I was happy Elon made it into the playoffs, but given the shape we were in and how we finished the regular season, I was shocked we made it. I was hopeful for a win against Wofford but given the circumstances, not expectant of a win. There were several CAA teams that finished poorly after having a reasonable season. I expected more from Towson and Stony Brook. I also expected more of a strong showing from JMU against Delaware. I do expect Maine to win over JSU, same with JMU over Colgate, but right now I have very little confidence of a CAA team in the semis.

[MR. CHICKEN]

The CAA only has 12 teams, but you are on-target with large conference sizes. I've always thought conferences should be capped in size at 9 -- typical year has 8 conference games w/3 OOC matchups. Having the odd # brings about some scheduling challenges but they are not insurmountable.

When the A-10/CAA had 12 teams the first time around, we had 2 divisions - North and South. You played the 5 teams in your division and 3 of the 6 teams in the other divisions in a 2-year rotation (home-and-home). Hardly ever got a true picture of who is was really good or who benefited from the scheduling quirks. The easy solution would be to ship Rhody, Maine and Albany off to the NEC xthumbsupx to get the CAA back to 9 teams.


.....NOT DAT EASY...DAWGGIE.......NEC WOOD....GROW TA 10...........BRAWK!

[Redbird 4th & short]

The CAA only has 12 teams, but you are on-target with large conference sizes. I've always thought conferences should be capped in size at 9 -- typical year has 8 conference games w/3 OOC matchups. Having the odd # brings about some scheduling challenges but they are not insurmountable.

When the A-10/CAA had 12 teams the first time around, we had 2 divisions - North and South. You played the 5 teams in your division and 3 of the 6 teams in the other divisions in a 2-year rotation (home-and-home). Hardly ever got a true picture of who is was really good or who benefited from the scheduling quirks. The easy solution would be to ship Rhody, Maine and Albany off to the NEC xthumbsupx to get the CAA back to 9 teams.
uh. for as much as I use Massey ... xconfusedx ... I don't know why I thought they had same as Big Sky. CAA has 12, Big Sky has 14.

But whoa .. that makes case against Maine getting #7 seed look even worse .. all 3 teams they avoided playing in conf were in top 4 of Colonial. That sure worked out well for them this year. JMU had to play 4 of the "other top 5".

Another poster asked question and I didn't see an answer yet ... how many years in advance is your rotation set for conf schedules ??

[Bisonator]

NDSU and SDSU didn't have a year they sit the title because they didn't play

The years ISU and NDSU split the title MDSU got the auto both years because there were still applicable tie breaker rules.

Starting in 2020 the MVFC is essentially going to divisional set up without officially doing so

Patty V has said that rivalries and geography will be protected and has said that the Dakota 4 along with UNI will play each other every year. Maybe she changes her mind but I doubt it

The split will be

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU

Sounds like MSU will be a floater between the two since they are a flight everywhere.

But Patty V also said 11 wasn't a viable option for a football conference and we all know the MVC is trying to find a 12th member to partner with Murray. Meaning we all know Murray is MVFX school by2020 or 2021. That will shift MOSU to the west full time and we will be a division set up of

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
MOSU

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU
MUSU

5 divisional games and 3 cross overs that will be set up in a H/A split so everyone has 4 home and 4 road conference games

We may even see one cross over protected rival

1 champ out if a 2 division set up and no title game (because making that work at the FCS level is way to damn much work) and we all know just how damn imbalanced these divisions will be.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Bison fans have been told NDSU will play UND, USD, SDSU and YSU every year. Doesn't make much sense to me but that's what's being said.

[Dukie95]

From an article last year on JMU's 2018 schedule:



“This is starting a new four-year schedule rotation,” said Brian Gordon, the CAA associate commissioner for football. “Obviously, you play the teams in your pod (for JMU that means Elon, Richmond and William & Mary) annually and then you rotate with the teams that aren’t in your pod.”
Gordon said the league’s goal was to achieve balanced schedules for all member schools as it rolled out the new four-year rotation.


“We work with a schedule programmer who has a software,” Gordon said. “But we give him a lot of criteria to use like rivalry games that need to be played and obviously the pods, plus we try to create travel equity.


This implies a pod structure. One pod is given there, but I don't know how the other two pods are broken down.


Nova
UD
Towson

UNH
URI
Maine

I would assume Albany and Stony Brook are together, but I can't see breaking up those other pods.

[centennial]

NDSU and SDSU didn't have a year they sit the title because they didn't play

The years ISU and NDSU split the title MDSU got the auto both years because there were still applicable tie breaker rules.

Starting in 2020 the MVFC is essentially going to divisional set up without officially doing so

Patty V has said that rivalries and geography will be protected and has said that the Dakota 4 along with UNI will play each other every year. Maybe she changes her mind but I doubt it

The split will be

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU

Sounds like MSU will be a floater between the two since they are a flight everywhere.

But Patty V also said 11 wasn't a viable option for a football conference and we all know the MVC is trying to find a 12th member to partner with Murray. Meaning we all know Murray is MVFX school by2020 or 2021. That will shift MOSU to the west full time and we will be a division set up of

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
MOSU

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU
MUSU

5 divisional games and 3 cross overs that will be set up in a H/A split so everyone has 4 home and 4 road conference games

We may even see one cross over protected rival

1 champ out if a 2 division set up and no title game (because making that work at the FCS level is way to damn much work) and we all know just how damn imbalanced these divisions will be.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If things remain the same Side A will be brutal. A theoretical Missouri Valley Upper Midwest-> Most years that's a schedule as tough as playing in AAC West or MW Mountain.

[BisonBacker]

NDSU and SDSU didn't have a year they sit the title because they didn't play

The years ISU and NDSU split the title MDSU got the auto both years because there were still applicable tie breaker rules.

Starting in 2020 the MVFC is essentially going to divisional set up without officially doing so

Patty V has said that rivalries and geography will be protected and has said that the Dakota 4 along with UNI will play each other every year. Maybe she changes her mind but I doubt it

The split will be

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU

Sounds like MSU will be a floater between the two since they are a flight everywhere.

But Patty V also said 11 wasn't a viable option for a football conference and we all know the MVC is trying to find a 12th member to partner with Murray. Meaning we all know Murray is MVFX school by2020 or 2021. That will shift MOSU to the west full time and we will be a division set up of

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
MOSU

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU
MUSU

5 divisional games and 3 cross overs that will be set up in a H/A split so everyone has 4 home and 4 road conference games

We may even see one cross over protected rival

1 champ out if a 2 division set up and no title game (because making that work at the FCS level is way to damn much work) and we all know just how damn imbalanced these divisions will be.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
This conferen conference split will be bull****. Just another reason to push NDSU to go FBS. Yeah yeah I know all the problems with that idea but if you're going to try sell that split conference **** as something to look forward to good luck with that. Pure and simple garbage.

[SCPALADIN]

Been away for a week or so. So is the general consensus?:
1) The use of the Coaches Poll was a complete dumpster fire.
2) The president of the selection committee (a Southland AD) should be replaced.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Been away for a week or so. So is the general consensus?:
1) The use of the Coaches Poll was a complete dumpster fire.
2) The president of the selection committee (a Southland AD) should be replaced.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29577&stc=1.....REPLACE..........WHIFF....DUH DELAWARE STATE POSTER.....WHOM WOOD BE MO' FAIR.......AS HORNETS........NEVER DANCE........BRAWK!

[PaladinFan]

The CAA only has 12 teams, but you are on-target with large conference sizes. I've always thought conferences should be capped in size at 9 -- typical year has 8 conference games w/3 OOC matchups. Having the odd # brings about some scheduling challenges but they are not insurmountable.

When the A-10/CAA had 12 teams the first time around, we had 2 divisions - North and South. You played the 5 teams in your division and 3 of the 6 teams in the other divisions in a 2-year rotation (home-and-home). Hardly ever got a true picture of who is was really good or who benefited from the scheduling quirks. The easy solution would be to ship Rhody, Maine and Albany off to the NEC xthumbsupx to get the CAA back to 9 teams.

Just to highlight a point, the SoCon has 9 football teams and plays an 8 game conference schedule. Everyone plays everyone. There are 3 out of conference games.

The SoCon got two teams in this year. The CAA got six teams in. The CAA champ and seeded team, Maine, didn't play most of the rest of the top teams in the conference. It was pretty apparent the committee did not seem to care about that.

SoCon teams cannot hide behind their schedule. The conference champion (or champions) has to go through every team in the league.

[kalm]

Just to highlight a point, the SoCon has 9 football teams and plays an 8 game conference schedule. Everyone plays everyone. There are 3 out of conference games.

The SoCon got two teams in this year. The CAA got six teams in. The CAA champ and seeded team, Maine, didn't play most of the rest of the top teams in the conference. It was pretty apparent the committee did not seem to care about that.

SoCon teams cannot hide behind their schedule. The conference champion (or champions) has to go through every team in the league.

As well as Shorter, Gardner Webb, Tennessee Tech, and Mars Hill. :D

The CAA tens to schedule weak too but this year Maine played two FBS, going 1-1 and lost to a decent Yale.

[Thumper 76]

....BIG SOUFF...HAS SIX TEAMS/AUTO-BID............CAA-A......CAA-B........BIG FLUFFY-A.....BIG FLUFFY-B.........2 MO'...AUTO-BIDS...........EXPAND DUH TOURNEY.........BRAWK!
Oh man expand the field more and I think some people’s heads will explode.

NDSU and SDSU didn't have a year they sit the title because they didn't play

The years ISU and NDSU split the title MDSU got the auto both years because there were still applicable tie breaker rules.

Starting in 2020 the MVFC is essentially going to divisional set up without officially doing so

Patty V has said that rivalries and geography will be protected and has said that the Dakota 4 along with UNI will play each other every year. Maybe she changes her mind but I doubt it

The split will be

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU

Sounds like MSU will be a floater between the two since they are a flight everywhere.

But Patty V also said 11 wasn't a viable option for a football conference and we all know the MVC is trying to find a 12th member to partner with Murray. Meaning we all know Murray is MVFX school by2020 or 2021. That will shift MOSU to the west full time and we will be a division set up of

Side A
UNI
USD
SDSU
NDSU
UND
MOSU

Side B
ISUr
ISUb
SIU
WIU
YSU
MUSU

5 divisional games and 3 cross overs that will be set up in a H/A split so everyone has 4 home and 4 road conference games

We may even see one cross over protected rival

1 champ out if a 2 division set up and no title game (because making that work at the FCS level is way to damn much work) and we all know just how damn imbalanced these divisions will be.


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This set up is going to be absolutely brutal and won’t help the conference any IMO.


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[clenz]

Bison fans have been told NDSU will play UND, USD, SDSU and YSU every year. Doesn't make much sense to me but that's what's being said.It hasn't been set yet. I wouldn't look to much into it. They may be your long rotation off, so they'll be in your schedule for 6 years. Maybe they are a full time partner. That doesn't match with what had been said from day 1 of UND joining being announced


It also hasnt been set as I think there is a hope the MUSU situation gets worked out for 2020.

The OVC has a strict no affiliate rule. MUSU can't leave the OVC for the MVFC before 2020. That means they've moved to the MVC and the OVC booted them and they are Indy for a year with no way to fill a schedule. Won't happen.

The hope/plan from what I understand is 2020/21 is the target year for the move to the MVC to match up with a football move. MUSU won't announce until May of 2020 they are leaving the OVC to about being ruled ineligible for autobids in any sports.

That's a bit late to shuffle mvfc schedules for 2020, unless that scheduling is already done and roll out (wouldn't shock me). It may also mean that MUSU plays 1 year Indy but has schedule help built in by the MVFC and join in 21.

The MUSU/OVC divorce won't be as smooth as the UND/Big Sky split. The OVC doesn't want MUSU gone like the big sky did with UND. Which makes working the details out harder as there won't be a 2 year good riddance to schedule allowed

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[clenz]

This set up is going to be absolutely brutal and won’t help the conference any IMO.


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You're right

But Patty has started party if the UND deal was protecting the Dakota 4 rivalry games and then protecting geography.

That means Dakota 4 with UNI.

Maybe the office caught enough flak from fans, and school admins got enough they went to the league office and change was worked out, but I doubt it

The only thing I can think is IF YSU is a permanent member with the Dakota schools they replaced UNI with YSU (since they are a plane no matter what) and created a faux MVC/Summit split, which still wouldn't be true because of WIU - but they have been playingVC schools in football for 40 years as a conference mate now, plus geography.

That also doesn't truly balance schedules, but if pritecting rivals is rule number 1, as Patty said, then the Dakota 4 are boned no matter what.

You're all rivals. You're all a bus trip.

It's just like the Illinois schools, but in the Dakota region



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[clenz]

The "best" way to balance is to do something like this with a protected cross over

Side 1-Side 2 with proetcted cross
NDSU-SDSU
UND-USD
ISUR-WIU
SIU-UNI
MSU-ISBU
YSU floats until MUSU joins or YSU goes elsewhere

It's not perfect but it's pretty close


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[walliver]

Megaconferences in football make sense for the Big Boys because of TV money. The Pac12, Big 10, and SEC have their own networks, and the ACC's starts in 2019. They make no sense at G5 or FCS level where TV money is minimal. Unfortunately, small conferences like the Big South create major scheduling issues. One of the reasons Gardner Webb shows up on so many SoCon schedules is that GWU, like the rest of the Big South, has to schedule 5 or 6 OOC games a year.

[BEAR]

To make it more suspect, this was by all accounts a down year for Southland with perenniel playoff contenders SHSU and UCA falling off to 6-5. Yet they go from a 2 bid league to a 3 bid league, with two teams being 6-4 .. while an 8-2 rightly stayed home a year ago .. just odd.

How many went last year? 3. SHSU, UCA, and Nicholls. McNeese was left out at 9-2 overall record. This year the league was flipped (as with happens with graduation classes) and the lower level teams likely stocked with upper classmen had success while the traditional powers UCA, SHSU, McNeese struggled. Nicholls was the only team to hold serve. But last year the SLC had 3 teams in.

[FUBeAR]

As well as Shorter, Gardner Webb, Tennessee Tech, and Mars Hill. :D

The CAA tens to schedule weak too but this year Maine played two FBS, going 1-1 and lost to a decent Yale.FBS...true...but, full disclosure...both of those FBS G5 Teams were terrible. They have both fired their Head Coaches, went 1-11 (that “1” was Maine) & 3-9 (with 2 of those wins over even terrible-er UTEP & (No)Ball State). And Maine was blown out by 5-5 Yale.

[Redbird 4th & short]

How many went last year? 3. SHSU, UCA, and Nicholls. McNeese was left out at 9-2 overall record. This year the league was flipped (as with happens with graduation classes) and the lower level teams likely stocked with upper classmen had success while the traditional powers UCA, SHSU, McNeese struggled. Nicholls was the only team to hold serve. But last year the SLC had 3 teams in.
good catch .. my brain was stuck on 2016.

[PaladinFan]

FBS...true...but, full disclosure...both of those FBS G5 Teams were terrible. They have both fired their Head Coaches, went 1-11 (that “1” was Maine) & 3-9 (with 2 of those wins over even terrible-er UTEP & (No)Ball State). And Maine was blown out by 5-5 Yale.

I also think the SoCon could do more for itself. Furman not falling apart against Elon would have been nice. Towson handled the Citadel. Mercer dropped a close one against Yale. Furman never got a crack at Colgate.

Those are the type of games the SoCon needs to start winning.

[fc97]

I honestly think the only way out for the CAA is something like this (pods of regional teams)

South Division:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Richmond

Mid-Atlantic Division:
Towson, Delaware, Villanova, Stony Brook

Northeast Division:
New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany

Guarantee 1 inter-divisional game yearly:
JMU/Delaware - yearly + 4 other games
Stony Brook/Albany - yearly + 4 other games
Richmond/Villanova - Yearly + 4 other games
Everyone else plays 5 games rotating (home/away)

Historically:
Elon, Towson, Rhode Island are your weaker or up and down teams (1 per division)
New Hampshire, Maine, Villanova, Delaware, JMU, Richmond are your stronger teams (2 per division)

Maybe it solves some problems. Maybe it would make some sense for the Big South or CAA to disband and make NEC, Big South and SoCon a bit bigger. Even then that doesn't fit well.

[JSUSoutherner]

I honestly think the only way out for the CAA is something like this (pods of regional teams)

South Division:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Richmond

Mid-Atlantic Division:
Towson, Delaware, Villanova, Stony Brook

Northeast Division:
New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany

Guarantee 1 inter-divisional game yearly:
JMU/Delaware - yearly + 4 other games
Stony Brook/Albany - yearly + 4 other games
Richmond/Villanova - Yearly + 4 other games
Everyone else plays 5 games rotating (home/away)

Historically:
Elon, Towson, Rhode Island are your weaker or up and down teams (1 per division)
New Hampshire, Maine, Villanova, Delaware, JMU, Richmond are your stronger teams (2 per division)

Maybe it solves some problems. Maybe it would make some sense for the Big South or CAA to disband and make NEC, Big South and SoCon a bit bigger. Even then that doesn't fit well.

Not sure that would solve the problem. You could still have a situation where UD's pod is absolutely loaded and JMU get 3 bye extra bye weeks. Teams vary so much year to year that it would be difficult to find a system where all of the CAA teams play an evenly strong schedule.

[dunbar]

I honestly think the only way out for the CAA is something like this (pods of regional teams)

South Division:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Richmond

Mid-Atlantic Division:
Towson, Delaware, Villanova, Stony Brook

Northeast Division:
New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany

Guarantee 1 inter-divisional game yearly:
JMU/Delaware - yearly + 4 other games
Stony Brook/Albany - yearly + 4 other games
Richmond/Villanova - Yearly + 4 other games
Everyone else plays 5 games rotating (home/away)

Historically:
Elon, Towson, Rhode Island are your weaker or up and down teams (1 per division)
New Hampshire, Maine, Villanova, Delaware, JMU, Richmond are your stronger teams (2 per division)

Maybe it solves some problems. Maybe it would make some sense for the Big South or CAA to disband and make NEC, Big South and SoCon a bit bigger. Even then that doesn't fit well.

I think once JMU moves up, CAA is toast. Villanova appears to be on a track to the Patriot League, and the southern schools might be more on an island than the northern schools.

If America East added Northeastern, Delaware and Towson as all sport members, they would have six football schools and could take over the YC/A10/CAA football charter. Keep in mind, there's already four AE schools in CAA football and only five CAA schools. Imagine this:

FOOTBALL
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island*
Albany
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
William & Mary*
Richmond*
Elon*

EVERYTHING ELSE
Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Lowell
Northeastern
Hartford
Albany
Binghamton
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
UMBC

The CAA might need to scoop up some non-football schools to save the league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not have two divisions and ensure that every season at least some of your best teams play one another?

Silly Paladin fan, without teams actually playing each other CAA teams get "schedule strength" without actually having to play the top teams in their division.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I honestly think the only way out for the CAA is something like this (pods of regional teams)

South Division:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Richmond

Mid-Atlantic Division:
Towson, Delaware, Villanova, Stony Brook

Northeast Division:
New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany

Guarantee 1 inter-divisional game yearly:
JMU/Delaware - yearly + 4 other games
Stony Brook/Albany - yearly + 4 other games
Richmond/Villanova - Yearly + 4 other games
Everyone else plays 5 games rotating (home/away)

Historically:
Elon, Towson, Rhode Island are your weaker or up and down teams (1 per division)
New Hampshire, Maine, Villanova, Delaware, JMU, Richmond are your stronger teams (2 per division)

Maybe it solves some problems. Maybe it would make some sense for the Big South or CAA to disband and make NEC, Big South and SoCon a bit bigger. Even then that doesn't fit well.

What if you added the Patriot League, NEC and Monmouth and added one more pod?

[Thumper 76]

The "best" way to balance is to do something like this with a protected cross over

Side 1-Side 2 with proetcted cross
NDSU-SDSU
UND-USD
ISUR-WIU
SIU-UNI
MSU-ISBU
YSU floats until MUSU joins or YSU goes elsewhere

It's not perfect but it's pretty close


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This would be great if the eastern schools wouldnt **** themselves with rage over travel.


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[kalm]

Silly Paladin fan, without teams actually playing each other CAA teams get "schedule strength" without actually having to play the top teams in their division.

Not really.

[clenz]

This would be great if the eastern schools wouldnt **** themselves with rage over travel.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou still have ISUR and SIU in the same spot...plus we could flip ISUB/MOSU and it wouldn't impact balance much most years.

Plus there are still 2 other cross over games that would/could be filled with UNI or WIU most years

[TypicalTribe]

So with 8 game conf schedule, going to 10 teams screws things up. Imagine what happens with 14 teams. And yes, it can be taken advantage of ... similar playoff collapse happened to CAA in 2011 ... they got 5 teams because of how many 1 and 2 loss teams they had in conf games .. because they didnt have to play all the top teams.

CAA did not have a playoff collapse in 2011. The conference had five teams in the field but none were seeded. JMU (road) and ODU (home) won first round games before losing to #2 NDSU and #3 Georgia Southern. UNH lost by a point at Montana State. Towson had a stunning loss at home to Lehigh but Maine went on the road and won at App St before losing the next week at Georgia Southern. Round of 16 road games at NDSU, GaSo, App St and Montana St is a pretty brutal lineup but all teams gave the hosts a battle.

[fc97]

What if you added the Patriot League, NEC and Monmouth and added one more pod?

It's like there needs to be a complete eastern realignment. And to do would mean the Big South, Patriot and NEC would be at risk

SoCon untouched:
WCU, UTC, ETSU, Wofford, Furman, VMI, The Citadel, Samford, Mercer

Colonial:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Delaware, Towson, Richmond, Villanova, Monmouth

American East:
UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany, Stony Brook, Duquense, Fordham


Monmouth, Fordham, Georgetown, and Duquense could be switched, but being affiliates could be prime targets. Marist also being an outlier in the Pioneer could be a target for any of these.

That leaves NEC with 7 (not too bad)
Sacred Heart, CCSU, Wagner, Brysant, St Francis, Robert Morris, Merrimack

Big South is ok but not great with 6:
Charleston Southern, KSU, UNA, Campbell, Hampton, Gardner-Webb

Patriot is ok, also goes down to 6:
Colgate, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Bucknell, Georgetown

[UNHWildcat18]

It's like there needs to be a complete eastern realignment. And to do would mean the Big South, Patriot and NEC would be at risk

SoCon untouched:
WCU, UTC, ETSU, Wofford, Furman, VMI, The Citadel, Samford, Mercer

Colonial:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Delaware, Towson, Richmond, Villanova, Monmouth

American East:
UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany, Stony Brook, Duquense, Fordham


Monmouth, Fordham, Georgetown, and Duquense could be switched, but being affiliates could be prime targets. Marist also being an outlier in the Pioneer could be a target for any of these.

That leaves NEC with 7 (not too bad)
Sacred Heart, CCSU, Wagner, Brysant, St Francis, Robert Morris, Merrimack

Big South is ok but not great with 6:
Charleston Southern, KSU, UNA, Campbell, Hampton, Gardner-Webb

Patriot is ok, also goes down to 6:
Colgate, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Bucknell, Georgetown

cut it out with this ****. CAA teams aren't going to leave one another to have schools with 3k stadiums added.

[UNHWildcat18]

I think once JMU moves up, CAA is toast. Villanova appears to be on a track to the Patriot League, and the southern schools might be more on an island than the northern schools.

If America East added Northeastern, Delaware and Towson as all sport members, they would have six football schools and could take over the YC/A10/CAA football charter. Keep in mind, there's already four AE schools in CAA football and only five CAA schools. Imagine this:

FOOTBALL
Maine
New Hampshire
Rhode Island*
Albany
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
William & Mary*
Richmond*
Elon*

EVERYTHING ELSE
Maine
New Hampshire
Vermont
Lowell
Northeastern
Hartford
Albany
Binghamton
Stony Brook
Delaware
Towson
UMBC

The CAA might need to scoop up some non-football schools to save the league.

Villanova isn't leaving one of the best FCS conferences to go to one of the worst. Get that silly thought out of your head.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's like there needs to be a complete eastern realignment. And to do would mean the Big South, Patriot and NEC would be at risk

SoCon untouched:
WCU, UTC, ETSU, Wofford, Furman, VMI, The Citadel, Samford, Mercer

Colonial:
Elon, W&M, JMU, Delaware, Towson, Richmond, Villanova, Monmouth

American East:
UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany, Stony Brook, Duquense, Fordham


Monmouth, Fordham, Georgetown, and Duquense could be switched, but being affiliates could be prime targets. Marist also being an outlier in the Pioneer could be a target for any of these.

That leaves NEC with 7 (not too bad)
Sacred Heart, CCSU, Wagner, Brysant, St Francis, Robert Morris, Merrimack

Big South is ok but not great with 6:
Charleston Southern, KSU, UNA, Campbell, Hampton, Gardner-Webb

Patriot is ok, also goes down to 6:
Colgate, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Lafayette, Bucknell, Georgetown

Don't forget LIU-CW Post, which is coming to the NEC

[dunbar]

I thought LIU would be a good fit for America East, until I found out they were private.

America East might be the most stable of all of the low/mid-major leagues on the east coast. I still think offering Delaware, Towson, and Northeastern while taking over the YC/A10/CAA Football charter would do wonders for the league.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Not sure that would solve the problem. You could still have a situation where UD's pod is absolutely loaded and JMU get 3 bye extra bye weeks. Teams vary so much year to year that it would be difficult to find a system where all of the CAA teams play an evenly strong schedule.

This!!!! Look at the pre-season predictions of UNH second and Maine eighth as just one example. I doubt Rhode Island or Towson were picked as high as they finished.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Don't forget LIU-CW Post, which is coming to the NEC

Which will make the NEC a nine team football league! Sacred Heart, CCSU, Wagner, Bryant, St Francis (PA), Robert Morris, Duquesne, Merrimack and LIU. And an 11 team basketball league with Mt St Mary's, Fairleigh Dickinson and St Francis (NY) on board and minus Duquesne (A10 for hoop). Won't this make the NEC as stable a league as it has ever been?

[The Boogie Down]

It's like there needs to be a complete eastern realignment.

American East:
UNH, Maine, Rhode Island, Albany, Stony Brook, Duquense, Fordham

With URI, Duquesne and Fordham this proposed breakaway conference could just as easily be called the A-10.

After an Eastern Apocalypse however, I'd prefer seeing an All-Catholic football league rising from the ashes. One featuring teams that at one time not only played in the FBS, but also played in major bowls. This Ol' Timers collection would include HC, Fordham, Villanova, Georgetown and Duquesne but unless BC drops down, I can't think of the necessary 6th team. Maybe Marquette can bring back football?

[Redbird 4th & short]

CAA did not have a playoff collapse in 2011. The conference had five teams in the field but none were seeded. JMU (road) and ODU (home) won first round games before losing to #2 NDSU and #3 Georgia Southern. UNH lost by a point at Montana State. Towson had a stunning loss at home to Lehigh but Maine went on the road and won at App St before losing the next week at Georgia Southern. Round of 16 road games at NDSU, GaSo, App St and Montana St is a pretty brutal lineup but all teams gave the hosts a battle.
collapse might be too strong a word ... but certainly a bad year for CAA, especially coming out of the 2004 to 2010 era they dominated. They went 3-5, with 2 of the wins coming against teams undeserving of playoff bids (OD over Norfolk and JMU over EKU). Just 1 of 5 made it out of round of 16. In fact, they had 6 teams ranked in top 17, of which 3 were in the top 10 .. at end of regular season. And just 1 made it to round of 8 before being eliminated.

But correct that they didnt get dominated in 2011 .. nor did they get dominated this past weekend. But they got 4 of just 10 at large bids, and a lot other 7-4 (even 8-3) teams stayed home.

p.s. yes, I'm still butt hurt over my 7-4 ISUr in 2011 xnodx

[RootinFerDukes]

Can we include UNI's "win" in the week 1 massacre?

[RootinFerDukes]

Related to another thread, anyone need more evidence 24 is too big a field? You end up with utter crap playing in the first round.

I agree. I miss the 16 team field. A top 16 is usually high quality teams with close match ups. Ever since we went to 20 and 24, it's been blowouts more often, which should never happen in the playoffs. Outside of #1 or #2 vs the NEC... oh wait lol.

[JSUSoutherner]

Can we include UNI's "win" in the week 1 massacre?

A win is a win, homie.

[RootinFerDukes]

A win is a win, homie.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[fc97]

cut it out with this ****. CAA teams aren't going to leave one another to have schools with 3k stadiums added.

Who of that group has 3k stadiums? And besides, didn't Northeastern have a pretty abysmal stadium?

[MR. CHICKEN]

Who of that group has 3k stadiums? And besides, didn't Northeastern have a pretty abysmal stadium?

.....YOUSE WANNA SADDLE....NORFF-EASTERN WHIFF PIGGY DEBT........GET HOFSTRA.......TUH WHIP-OUT...DUH CREDIT CARD.......BRAWK!

[MR. CHICKEN]

This!!!! Look at the pre-season predictions of UNH second and Maine eighth as just one example. I doubt Rhode Island or Towson were picked as high as they finished.


FROM 2018 CONFERENCE PRE-SEASON POLLS THREAD:

1 JMU
2 NEW HAMPSHIRE
3 DELAWARE
4 STONY BROOK
5 ELON
6 VILLANOVA
7 RICHMOND
8 MAINE
9 ALBANY
10 TOWSON
11 MILLIAM & MARY
12 RHODE ISLAND

ACTUAL CAA FINAL STANDINGS:

1 MAINE (7-1)
2 JMU (6-2)
3 DELAWARE (5-3)
4 STONY BROOK (5-3)
5 TOWSON (5-3)
6 ELON (4-3)
7 RHODE ISLAND (4-4)
8 WILLIAM & MARY (3-4)
9 NEW HAMPSHIRE (3-5)
10 VILLANOVA (2-6)
11 RICHMOND (2-6)
12 ALBANY (1-7)

[RootinFerDukes]

Mr. Chicken, stop it! How dare you use our own AGS rankings from last week to point out the flaws in the anti-CAA arguments.

Following our rankings, two of the CAA losses went as expected. Only TU and SB were truly upset last week.

[AmsterBison]

I agree. I miss the 16 team field. A top 16 is usually high quality teams with close match ups. Ever since we went to 20 and 24, it's been blowouts more often, which should never happen in the playoffs. Outside of #1 or #2 vs the NEC... oh wait lol.

I saw a lot of good football games on Saturday, and they were all pretty good games that weren't decided until the 4th quarter.

But here's some data about margins of victory since we expanded to 24 teams:

Edit: OK, the data I had here was wrong and I don't want it quoted as fact anywhere so I deleted it.

[UNHWildcat18]

Who of that group has 3k stadiums? And besides, didn't Northeastern have a pretty abysmal stadium?

Duquesne has a capacity of 2200....... RMU 3000.......Monmouth 4000...... UNH is not going to trade W&M JMU UD for any rinky dink program in the NEC. Nor will America east sponsor football. Even if JMU goes FBS the CAA shouldn't add anyone else.

They did, but NU like URI was kinda of grandfathered into the league. I believe when Ualbany joined they needed a finalized plan for a stadium that was 8k plus... someone can fact check me on that if they want to.

[AmsterBison]

OK, given the debacle when I tried to calculate number of playoff wins teams in each side of the bracket had last year, I decided after work that I'd double-check my score data and, sure enough, there was a bug:

Data since 2013 (inclusive) - so five years plus the first round this year.



PlayoffRound
Margin


0
17.25


1
17.85


2
16.63


3
18.40


4
24.40


5
15.00



0=Non-playoff game, 1=first round, 2=second round, 3=quarters, 4=semis, 5=championship

This aligns closer to what I expected (i.e. that the semifinals are the Round o' Blowouts). I confirmed the championship game margin by hand. And, looking at the 3,622 non-playoff FCS v FCS games in the dataset, found that the median margin of victory was 14 which makes a 17.25 mean plausible considering the large number of blowouts.

[gofurman]

As well as Shorter, Gardner Webb, Tennessee Tech, and Mars Hill. :D

The CAA tens to schedule weak too but this year Maine played two FBS, going 1-1 and lost to a decent Yale.

SoCon OOC includes Clemson. Alabama. Tennessee. Elon. Yale. South Carolina. Etc. Unfortunately w that type FBS it’s all losses.

As you know his point was that IN-conference every SoCon team plays every other SoCon team. . The CAA setup can allow a team to win the CAA without playing any of the top 3 or 4 teams.

[walliver]

Not many teams on the East Coast really schedule aggressively. And there's no real need to do so. There enough mid-level FCS conferences in the East to make out an all D-I schedule without scheduling another power conference team. Out West, there are very few non-scholarship or reduced-scholarship teams.

Even Furman's high vaulted aggressive scheduling consisted of a Colgate team they lead 38-7 at halftime last year. An Elon team that was not very good when the series was actually scheduled. And they played the second best team money can buy because it was their slot on Clemson's 4 year in-state FCS rotation.

The Citadel's 4 game home series with CSU was much more impressive before Chadwell left. PC was full-scholarship when Wofford scheduled them. Did Chatty know how bad Tenn Tech and UT-Martin would be when those games were scheduled.

I would love to see a series between the Carolinas SoCon teams and the Southern half of the CAA. But as long as Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, OVC, and NEC wins work for you and other FCS losses work against you, there isn't going to be a lot of interest in such a series.

[walliver]

SoCon OOC includes Clemson. Alabama. Tennessee. Elon. Yale. South Carolina. Etc. Unfortunately w that type FBS it’s all losses.

As you know his point was that IN-conference every SoCon team plays every other SoCon team. . The CAA setup can allow a team to win the CAA without playing any of the top 3 or 4 teams.

Two of those teams are not like the others.

[kalm]

Not many teams on the East Coast really schedule aggressively. And there's no real need to do so. There enough mid-level FCS conferences in the East to make out an all D-I schedule without scheduling another power conference team. Out West, there are very few non-scholarship or reduced-scholarship teams.

Even Furman's high vaulted aggressive scheduling consisted of a Colgate team they lead 38-7 at halftime last year. An Elon team that was not very good when the series was actually scheduled. And they played the second best team money can buy because it was their slot on Clemson's 4 year in-state FCS rotation.

The Citadel's 4 game home series with CSU was much more impressive before Chadwell left. PC was full-scholarship when Wofford scheduled them. Did Chatty know how bad Tenn Tech and UT-Martin would be when those games were scheduled.

I would love to see a series between the Carolinas SoCon teams and the Southern half of the CAA. But as long as Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, OVC, and NEC wins work for you and other FCS losses work against you, there isn't going to be a lot of interest in such a series.

Agreed. My issue is with how much credit is given to all DI schedules, sometimes in seeding and selections, often times in polling, when you see teams have 2 OOC games against Hampton and Norfolk for example, or GW and Mars Hill.

[GannonFan]

Not many teams on the East Coast really schedule aggressively. And there's no real need to do so. There enough mid-level FCS conferences in the East to make out an all D-I schedule without scheduling another power conference team. Out West, there are very few non-scholarship or reduced-scholarship teams.

Even Furman's high vaulted aggressive scheduling consisted of a Colgate team they lead 38-7 at halftime last year. An Elon team that was not very good when the series was actually scheduled. And they played the second best team money can buy because it was their slot on Clemson's 4 year in-state FCS rotation.

The Citadel's 4 game home series with CSU was much more impressive before Chadwell left. PC was full-scholarship when Wofford scheduled them. Did Chatty know how bad Tenn Tech and UT-Martin would be when those games were scheduled.

I would love to see a series between the Carolinas SoCon teams and the Southern half of the CAA. But as long as Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, OVC, and NEC wins work for you and other FCS losses work against you, there isn't going to be a lot of interest in such a series.

Well, I do remember a CAA/SoCon series between Delaware and Furman where Furman backed out of the return trip to Newark (after playing the front end at Furman) because they wanted an FBS payday. It takes two to tango and it's not like the SoCon is screaming to schedule these games.

As for the CAA, most teams play the 8 conference games, one FBS payday, and one patsy, so there's only one game left to schedule most years. And frankly, money matters, so these programs aren't going to schedule revenue neutral (neutral at best, but likely revenue losing) games against the SoCon when they can play games near home that will actually bring in a little money.

And as for the CAA massacre, the conference just showed what most of us have been saying all year - a bunch of average teams outside of maybe JMU, and they're falling back to average more than they are pulling away from it this year. When the playoffs are large enough that a bunch of average teams can get in then you run the risk of this result. Back in the 16 team playoff days there would've been 2 teams from this year's CAA, max, in the tourney.

[FUBeAR]

Agreed. My issue is with how much credit is given to all DI schedules, sometimes in seeding and selections, often times in polling, when you see teams have 2 OOC games against Hampton and Norfolk for example, or GW and Mars Hill.
...or Western State (CO), Central Washington, St. Francis (IL), Drake, Western New Mexico, Brown, Wagner, or College of Idaho.

[kalm]

...or Western State (CO), Central Washington, St. Francis (IL), Drake, Western New Mexico, Brown, Wagner, or College of Idaho.

What are the other two teams on those schedules?

[FUBeAR]

Hence my use of the term DI.Mars Hill is D2...hence, my inclusion of the Non D1 / less than full 63 Schollie Teams scheduled/played by Big Sky Teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

Not many teams on the East Coast really schedule aggressively. And there's no real need to do so. There enough mid-level FCS conferences in the East to make out an all D-I schedule without scheduling another power conference team. Out West, there are very few non-scholarship or reduced-scholarship teams.

Even Furman's high vaulted aggressive scheduling consisted of a Colgate team they lead 38-7 at halftime last year. An Elon team that was not very good when the series was actually scheduled. And they played the second best team money can buy because it was their slot on Clemson's 4 year in-state FCS rotation.

The Citadel's 4 game home series with CSU was much more impressive before Chadwell left. PC was full-scholarship when Wofford scheduled them. Did Chatty know how bad Tenn Tech and UT-Martin would be when those games were scheduled.

I would love to see a series between the Carolinas SoCon teams and the Southern half of the CAA. But as long as Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, OVC, and NEC wins work for you and other FCS losses work against you, there isn't going to be a lot of interest in such a series.I'm pretty sure when scheduled this stint with Gardner Webb they had beaten us two in a row.

If I'm not mistaken, in 2013/2014 the Big South was actually better than the socon in head to head match ups and had multiple teams with 7+ wins. Lots of currently scheduled Socon v Big South matchups were done so in the aftermath of this.

And then Liberty and Coastal left and Charleston Southern regressed post Chadwell. Even Gardner Webb isn't as good as they were 5 years ago.



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[Reign of Terrier]

Also, if JMU went FBS I wouldn't be surprised if the CAA went for Monmouth. Would be a better fit for them than the Big South. No idea how likely that would be.

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[UNHWildcat18]

Also, if JMU went FBS I wouldn't be surprised if the CAA went for Monmouth. Would be a better fit for them than the Big South. No idea how likely that would be.

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very unlikely, missing so many schools due to conference size they will probably stay at 11. Monmouth's stadium is too small. They are in quite the situation. NEC kicked them out, PL probably thinks the imaginary academic "level" makes them unworthy, and the CAA wont trade a program with a 25k stadium for a 4k stadium.

[kalm]

Mars Hill is D2...hence, my inclusion of the Non D1 / less than full 63 Schollie Teams scheduled/played by Big Sky Teams.

You're right. I missed that and edited my post.

I'm not blaming the CAA and SoCon for scheduling easy. I wish we could too. Each program has their needs in scheduling and some have more challenges than others. For the Montana's this year was ideal with two winnable MVFC games that raised their SoS and patsy. This year's EWU schedule was also ideal. We don't have the gate like the Montana's to fly out weaker FCS competition for a one off and need the payday of the $ game. CWU gives us a breather where we don't get beat up unlike years where we've played two FBS or two from the Valley and an FBS. NDSU can afford to schedule weak with seven home games as they're that good.

To Furman's credit, they put together a solid schedule this year. Matchups between power conferences or elite programs make voting and selection easier.

[FUBeAR]

You're right. I missed that and edited my post.

I'm not blaming the CAA and SoCon for scheduling easy. I wish we could too. Each program has their needs in scheduling and some have more challenges than others. For the Montana's this year was ideal with two winnable MVFC games that raised their SoS and patsy. This year's EWU schedule was also ideal. We don't have the gate like the Montana's to fly out weaker FCS competition for a one off and need the payday of the $ game. CWU gives us a breather where we don't get beat up unlike years where we've played two FBS or two from the Valley and an FBS. NDSU can afford to schedule weak with seven home games as they're that good.

To Furman's credit, they put together a solid schedule this year. Matchups between power conferences or elite programs make voting and selection easier.Yeah - I’m just really not into criticizing individual schools for their schedules (‘labeling’ of Conf. vs. OOC games is another matter). Every Team has reasons why their schedule is the way it is. I have issue with the selection committee, apparently, weighting W-L record so heavily without, apparently, giving much weight to SoS. Yes, it would be better if all FCS Teams played similarly ‘mixed’ & balanced schedules, but the reality is that is not going to happen. The Committee just needs to do better.

You know what, though, I wouldn’t mind an FCS RULE that Teams had to play 3 REAL OOC games with a minimum of 1 FCS of the 3 - other 2 can be FBS or 1 Team can play College of Faith 2x. With only 2 True OOC games by all Teams in a Conference, there are just not enough data points to minimize Confirmation Bias or Circular Logic (whichever it is) that would allow Team A to win 7 Conference games without, necessarily, playing the 3 or 4 best Teams in that Conference & we really don’t know how strong that Conference is because of few OOC games...to get in the Playoffs because they beat Trinity Bible for their 8th win & play in a “tough conference”...maybe.

ICW & Lamar, this year, are great examples...
* ICW - 2 losses to 2 crappy FBS Teams & no other OOC games
* LU - 1 really crappy non-D1 - blowout win / 1 meh FBS - blowout loss & no other OOC

...and I think about 8 total OOC FCS games for the rest of the SLC. Can we really use that minimal amount of SLC OOC data, extrapolate it & apply it to UIW & LU? Nah...shot in the dark. Close your eyes & throw 2 darts & you’ll have as much chance at landing on Playoff-worthy Teams.

BTW - This doesn’t imply that UIW & Lamar were not the right choices (even though they weren’t). It just says, due to the number and structure of OOC games for those 2 Teams AND for the SLC, as a whole, we & the Committee really had no way to know if they deserved an At-large bid or not.

[JSUSoutherner]

Fun Fact: If Maine or JMU loses this weekend then it will be mathematically impossible for the CAA to finish this postseason with a winning record.

by the same measure it is mathematically impossible for the OVC to finish with a losing record. :D

[PaladinFan]

You're right. I missed that and edited my post.

I'm not blaming the CAA and SoCon for scheduling easy. I wish we could too. Each program has their needs in scheduling and some have more challenges than others. For the Montana's this year was ideal with two winnable MVFC games that raised their SoS and patsy. This year's EWU schedule was also ideal. We don't have the gate like the Montana's to fly out weaker FCS competition for a one off and need the payday of the $ game. CWU gives us a breather where we don't get beat up unlike years where we've played two FBS or two from the Valley and an FBS. NDSU can afford to schedule weak with seven home games as they're that good.

To Furman's credit, they put together a solid schedule this year. Matchups between power conferences or elite programs make voting and selection easier.

I don't see the incentive anymore for Furman to continue their tough schedule.

The committee appears to not be terribly concerned with strength of schedule. Why not just play Gardner Webb and Presbyterian and get to 8 wins?

I mean, there are some teams in this playoff that played a laughable schedule. Kennesaw State looks like a power house, but only faced two decent teams all year. Why bother scheduling up if you are guaranteed 9 wins?

[fc97]

I don't see the incentive anymore for Furman to continue their tough schedule.

The committee appears to not be terribly concerned with strength of schedule. Why not just play Gardner Webb and Presbyterian and get to 8 wins?

I mean, there are some teams in this playoff that played a laughable schedule. Kennesaw State looks like a power house, but only faced two decent teams all year. Why bother scheduling up if you are guaranteed 9 wins?

Agree, but self respect for the program?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fun Fact: If Maine or JMU loses this weekend then it will be mathematically impossible for the CAA to finish this postseason with a winning record.

by the same measure it is mathematically impossible for the OVC to finish with a losing record. :D

The same could be said about the PL! xsmiley_wix

[walliver]

Yeah - I’m just really not into criticizing individual schools for their schedules (‘labeling’ of Conf. vs. OOC games is another matter). Every Team has reasons why their schedule is the way it is. I have issue with the selection committee, apparently, weighting W-L record so heavily without, apparently, giving much weight to SoS. Yes, it would be better if all FCS Teams played similarly ‘mixed’ & balanced schedules, but the reality is that is not going to happen. The Committee just needs to do better.

You know what, though, I wouldn’t mind an FCS RULE that Teams had to play 3 REAL OOC games with a minimum of 1 FCS of the 3 - other 2 can be FBS or 1 Team can play College of Faith 2x. With only 2 True OOC games by all Teams in a Conference, there are just not enough data points to minimize Confirmation Bias or Circular Logic (whichever it is) that would allow Team A to win 7 Conference games without, necessarily, playing the 3 or 4 best Teams in that Conference & we really don’t know how strong that Conference is because of few OOC games...to get in the Playoffs because they beat Trinity Bible for their 8th win & play in a “tough conference”...maybe.

ICW & Lamar, this year, are great examples...
* ICW - 2 losses to 2 crappy FBS Teams & no other OOC games
* LU - 1 really crappy non-D1 - blowout win / 1 meh FBS - blowout loss & no other OOC

...and I think about 8 total OOC FCS games for the rest of the SLC. Can we really use that minimal amount of SLC OOC data, extrapolate it & apply it to UIW & LU? Nah...shot in the dark. Close your eyes & throw 2 darts & you’ll have as much chance at landing on Playoff-worthy Teams.

BTW - This doesn’t imply that UIW & Lamar were not the right choices (even though they weren’t). It just says, due to the number and structure of OOC games for those 2 Teams AND for the SLC, as a whole, we & the Committee really had no way to know if they deserved an At-large bid or not.

How would deal with a situation where a team schedules 3 OOC and only plays 2?

The Citadel scheduled 3 OOC and only played 2 (both losses). Should they be excluded. Didn't some other team have a similar situation? Those two teams, however, both played CAA teams, so they meet half of your criteria.

[clenz]

I don't see the incentive anymore for Furman to continue their tough schedule.

The committee appears to not be terribly concerned with strength of schedule. Why not just play Gardner Webb and Presbyterian and get to 8 wins?

I mean, there are some teams in this playoff that played a laughable schedule. Kennesaw State looks like a power house, but only faced two decent teams all year. Why bother scheduling up if you are guaranteed 9 wins?
I mean..schedule strength got UNI in.

And the 6 win Illinois State team a couple years ago.

[clenz]

How would deal with a situation where a team schedules 3 OOC and only plays 2?

The Citadel scheduled 3 OOC and only played 2 (both losses). Should they be excluded. Didn't some other team have a similar situation? Those two teams, however, both played CAA teams, so they meet half of your criteria.
SDSU lost an OOC game.

May have helped them. It was their FBS game, and historical jokes about Iowa State aside - they were damn good this year. Probably would've boat raced SDSU to an extent

[FUBeAR]

How would deal with a situation where a team schedules 3 OOC and only plays 2?

The Citadel scheduled 3 OOC and only played 2 (both losses). Should they be excluded. Didn't some other team have a similar situation? Those two teams, however, both played CAA teams, so they meet half of your criteria.
Nah...Acts of God and whatnot are usually accommodated somehow IRL. So, same for IFL.

My suggestion is that both sides of such a cancellation of an FCS game would receive ‘mental Playoff credit’ from the Committee for a win vs. an ‘average’ FCS Team by an ‘average’ number of points...I think that was Monmouth in the Massey Ratings (for example) this year. If a scheduled FBS game is cancelled...’credit’ that FCS Team with a loss vs. an average FBS Team by an average number of points. Cancelled vs. a lower division Team...no ‘credit’ (sorry). You cancel to play a ‘better’ game after selection (ala UIW), no ‘credit.’

Sound reasonable?

[uni88]

Yeah - I’m just really not into criticizing individual schools for their schedules (‘labeling’ of Conf. vs. OOC games is another matter). Every Team has reasons why their schedule is the way it is.

Criticizing Big Sky Teams for scheduling conference teams as OOC games is based on a lack of understanding of their situation. Consider this older map of FCS and look at the Big Sky teams.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2308083/FCS_Map.png?_ga=1.121720843.1615374181.1346896457
Many already schedule an FBS game and scheduling D2's can hurt their playoff chances so that should only be done as a last resort. What FCS teams are they going to schedule for OOC games? What other options do these teams have for OOC games besides Big Sky teams? How many Big Sky OOC games would these schools want to schedule in a given year? There is a limited pool of schools willing to schedule home and homes with Big Sky teams and there are more Big Sky teams looking for OOC games than there are schools willing to play them. If you have an opening on your schedule that you can't fill and you want a winnable game that counts toward playoff eligibility, why not schedule a fellow Big Sky team that you aren't scheduled to play in-conference for that year?

[PaladinNation]

I don't see the incentive anymore for Furman to continue their tough schedule.

The committee appears to not be terribly concerned with strength of schedule. Why not just play Gardner Webb and Presbyterian and get to 8 wins?

I mean, there are some teams in this playoff that played a laughable schedule. Kennesaw State looks like a power house, but only faced two decent teams all year. Why bother scheduling up if you are guaranteed 9 wins?

2019 Furman opens at home (thank you) with CSU
Then plays two FBS schools GaSt and VaTech
I believe Furman is trying to get another home OOC game.

My guess is (based on gossip) Furman will halt this recent trend of opening the season with a murderers row.
I would love to see Furman play a home and home with a CAA school consistently, same goes for top-tier Patriot schools.
Then I would love to see Furman play a GWU, or Campbell from the Big South or Davidson, Jacksonville U, Stetson from the Pioneer.
But this all might be wishful thinking, seems none of the Pioneer schools that had an opening to fill the void of the Colgate game wanted to play Furman.

[PaladinNation]

Criticizing Big Sky Teams for scheduling conference teams as OOC games is based on a lack of understanding of their situation. Consider this older map of FCS and look at the Big Sky teams.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2308083/FCS_Map.png?_ga=1.121720843.1615374181.1346896457
Many already schedule an FBS game and scheduling D2's can hurt their playoff chances so that should only be done as a last resort. What FCS teams are they going to schedule for OOC games? What other options do these teams have for OOC games besides Big Sky teams? How many Big Sky OOC games would these schools want to schedule in a given year? There is a limited pool of schools willing to schedule home and homes with Big Sky teams and there are more Big Sky teams looking for OOC games than there are schools willing to play them. If you have an opening on your schedule that you can't fill and you want a winnable game that counts toward playoff eligibility, why not schedule a fellow Big Sky team that you aren't scheduled to play in-conference for that year?

hard to argue with a map… SDST played GSU in Statesboro in 2007 then GSU played SDST at SDST in 2009. I think that's it for MVC/So Con regular-season matchups. Can anyone think of another? But man I would love to see that happen — I would love to see Furman play a home and home with one of the Montana schools or the Dakota schools. I know it would be a financial loss for both schools but it would be great for FCS to have some cross country matchups early in the season.

[FUGameBreaker]

I mean..schedule strength got UNI in.

And the 6 win Illinois State team a couple years ago.



UNI got in because the committee wanted the money they would guarantee for a home game, 5 losses and trounced by Youngstown would leave most anyone else at home.

[FUGameBreaker]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2308083/FCS_Map.png?_ga=1.121720843.1615374181.1346896457



It sure is a hell of alot tougher recruiting FCS players in the East then out West, that's for certain.

[clenz]

UNI got in because the committee wanted the money they would guarantee for a home game, 5 losses and trounced by Youngstown would leave most anyone else at home.
Yeah...that 4,000 people that went to the game really made the NCAA a bunch of money.

Flying a team from Louisiana to Iowa to play in front of 4,000 people definitely filled the pockets to the top of the NCAA.

If they wanted money - they'd have taken Montana who would draw 5 times what UNI did and definitely would have bid more to the NCAA

[JSUSoutherner]

UNI got in because the committee wanted the money they would guarantee for a home game, 5 losses and trounced by Youngstown would leave most anyone else at home.

This post is really dumb.

[FUBeAR]

Criticizing Big Sky Teams for scheduling conference teams as OOC games is based on a lack of understanding of their situation. Consider this older map of FCS and look at the Big Sky teams.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2308083/FCS_Map.png?_ga=1.121720843.1615374181.1346896457
Many already schedule an FBS game and scheduling D2's can hurt their playoff chances so that should only be done as a last resort. What FCS teams are they going to schedule for OOC games? What other options do these teams have for OOC games besides Big Sky teams? How many Big Sky OOC games would these schools want to schedule in a given year? There is a limited pool of schools willing to schedule home and homes with Big Sky teams and there are more Big Sky teams looking for OOC games than there are schools willing to play them. If you have an opening on your schedule that you can't fill and you want a winnable game that counts toward playoff eligibility, why not schedule a fellow Big Sky team that you aren't scheduled to play in-conference for that year?I get it...and based on the geography, I can understand ‘labeling’ games with Big Sky Teams as non-Conference games. That said, it still makes no sense to label games with non-Big Sky Teams (North Dakota - an FCS Independent Team in 2018) as Conference games, while, in the same season, playing an actual Big Sky Team and labeling that game a non-Conference game. I read all of the reasons why that is supposed to make sense, but none of them held water. I guess that nonsense ends after next season...so I won’t have to trouble my furry head with it after then.

So, is there any rhyme, reason, or rules as to which Teams label which games with which Teams as non-conference? Are some of those games Conference games for 1 Big Sky Team, but non-Conference games for their Big Sky opponents?

Do you have any suggestions how the Big Sky can be fairly evaluated when their 9 game (real) Conference schedule and lack of OOC FCS renders them so insular? I just don’t see how anyone can look at the BSC’s performance in the past 2 year’s Playoffs and say, “Yep, 3 Teams in that conference deserve seeds.” Sure, EWU had a very good run in 2016 & Weber had a nice run last year, but most BSC Playoff Teams lost their 1st Playoff games to SoCon, CAA, and 2x to non-schollie PFL Teams. Look, EWU, UCD, and Weber may be the 3 greatest Teams in the history of FCS Football, but there’s just no evidence (yet) that points to that; other than their 9-2 records achieved in an insular way in a Conference that has performed (mostly) poorly in the Playoffs the past 2 years - their primary OOC tests during that time frame. I did think Montana State looked pretty good last week, but they played a Team that had played 0 OOC FCS games...so, who knows.

[Bisonoline]

UNI got in because the committee wanted the money they would guarantee for a home game, 5 losses and trounced by Youngstown would leave most anyone else at home.

You really have no clue.

[gofurman]

Yeah...that 4,000 people that went to the game really made the NCAA a bunch of money.

Flying a team from Louisiana to Iowa to play in front of 4,000 people definitely filled the pockets to the top of the NCAA.

If they wanted money - they'd have taken Montana who would draw 5 times what UNI did and definitely would have bid more to the NCAA


I admit ignorance. Isn't it just based on a bid ? I.E. If UNI has a reputation for bidding 37k and other teams bid less (30k. I have NO idea the actual number). that could - unfortunately have some affect?

or is the bid amount based on ticket sales plus any amount the school wants to put in addition? In that case there is still room to become known as a high-bid school... Wofford must have out-bid Elon (obviously as it was Wofford) and only had 2000 in attendance

How is the bid $amount determined?? Thanks for help

[gofurman]

It sure is a hell of alot tougher recruiting FCS players in the East then out West, that's for certain.

THIS. THIS. THIS

had a friend do the actual MATH (because people ignorantly say "but east has more population") - his math included population and population growth. When you added all the 20 freakin new FCS and FBS programs - almost exclusively SOUTHEAST (. Mercer, KSU, Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Charieston Southern, ETC ETC) southern FCS teams used to get to pick a player per say every 150 high school seniors. Now they HAVE ago take one every 40 or so. West coast had a FAR easier draw. I'll have to try and dig it up. It was depressing.

Dont quote me on the '150 and 40' but it was EXTREME. and sure we can try to mitigate the difference by recruiting the Midwest etc but most kids given a choice will stay near home if an NC/SC school asks them to move from New Mexico or Oklahoma. The local school has the advantage

[PaladinFan]

THIS. THIS. THIS

had a friend do the actual MATH (because people ignorantly say "but east has more population") - his math included population and population growth. When you added all the 20 freakin new FCS and FBS programs - almost exclusively SOUTHEAST (. Mercer, KSU, Georgia State, Coastal Carolina, Charieston Southern, ETC ETC) southern FCS teams used to get to pick a player per say every 150 high school seniors. Now they HAVE ago take one every 40 or so. West coast had a FAR easier draw. I'll have to try and dig it up. It was depressing.

Dont quote me on the '150 and 40' but it was EXTREME. and sure we can try to mitigate the difference by recruiting the Midwest etc but most kids given a choice will stay near home if an NC/SC school asks them to move from New Mexico or Oklahoma. The local school has the advantage

I think South Carolina has a population of roughly 4.5 million people. There are 9 D1 football programs (counting Presbyterian).

California's population is roughly 35 million people. There are, I think, 11 D1 football programs.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Criticizing Big Sky Teams for scheduling conference teams as OOC games is based on a lack of understanding of their situation. Consider this older map of FCS and look at the Big Sky teams.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2308083/FCS_Map.png?_ga=1.121720843.1615374181.1346896457
Many already schedule an FBS game and scheduling D2's can hurt their playoff chances so that should only be done as a last resort. What FCS teams are they going to schedule for OOC games? What other options do these teams have for OOC games besides Big Sky teams? How many Big Sky OOC games would these schools want to schedule in a given year? There is a limited pool of schools willing to schedule home and homes with Big Sky teams and there are more Big Sky teams looking for OOC games than there are schools willing to play them. If you have an opening on your schedule that you can't fill and you want a winnable game that counts toward playoff eligibility, why not schedule a fellow Big Sky team that you aren't scheduled to play in-conference for that year?

Perfectly illustrates the point. But the Big Sky need not explain or apologize to anyone for their scheduling. Putting aside obvious demographic challenge, they still routinely have stronger SOS based on their FBS games and then more recently the Big Sky-MVFC challenge. Almost every team schedules 1 or 2 OOC patsies. And then there are the conf patsies on top of that. Big Sky has conf patsies with 14 teams, but still manage to be ranked right behind MVFC most years in SOS.

But yes, demographics explain their scheduling challenges ... but they need not explain.

[uni88]

I get it...and based on the geography, I can understand ‘labeling’ games with Big Sky Teams as non-Conference games. That said, it still makes no sense to label games with non-Big Sky Teams (North Dakota - an FCS Independent Team in 2018) as Conference games, while, in the same season, playing an actual Big Sky Team and labeling that game a non-Conference game. I read all of the reasons why that is supposed to make sense, but none of them held water. I guess that nonsense ends after next season...so I won’t have to trouble my furry head with it after then.

So, is there any rhyme, reason, or rules as to which Teams label which games with which Teams as non-conference? Are some of those games Conference games for 1 Big Sky Team, but non-Conference games for their Big Sky opponents?

Do you have any suggestions how the Big Sky can be fairly evaluated when their 9 game (real) Conference schedule and lack of OOC FCS renders them so insular? I just don’t see how anyone can look at the BSC’s performance in the past 2 year’s Playoffs and say, “Yep, 3 Teams in that conference deserve seeds.” Sure, EWU had a very good run in 2016 & Weber had a nice run last year, but most BSC Playoff Teams lost their 1st Playoff games to SoCon, CAA, and 2x to non-schollie PFL Teams. Look, EWU, UCD, and Weber may be the 3 greatest Teams in the history of FCS Football, but there’s just no evidence (yet) that points to that; other than their 9-2 records achieved in an insular way in a Conference that has performed (mostly) poorly in the Playoffs the past 2 years - their primary OOC tests during that time frame. I did think Montana State looked pretty good last week, but they played a Team that had played 0 OOC FCS games...so, who knows.My understanding is that the conference sets the schedule. Once the conference schedule is set, teams can schedule conference foes they aren't scheduled to play in a season as an OOC game. Not every school does this and I don't think any school does it every year so it is not a 9 game schedule. Big Sky schools also play MVFC schools frequently and Southland schools occasionally so you do get a sample for comparison.

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[Thumper 76]

hard to argue with a map… SDST played GSU in Statesboro in 2007 then GSU played SDST at SDST in 2009. I think that's it for MVC/So Con regular-season matchups. Can anyone think of another? But man I would love to see that happen — I would love to see Furman play a home and home with one of the Montana schools or the Dakota schools. I know it would be a financial loss for both schools but it would be great for FCS to have some cross country matchups early in the season.
I think most MVFC fans would be all for that, and I know that the MVFC schools would do it. Look at the OOC games the xDSUs have had. They aren’t afraid to travel for OOC matchups. You have a better shot at getting SDSU or UNI than ndsu regularly though.

I admit ignorance. Isn't it just based on a bid ? I.E. If UNI has a reputation for bidding 37k and other teams bid less (30k. I have NO idea the actual number). that could - unfortunately have some affect?

or is the bid amount based on ticket sales plus any amount the school wants to put in addition? In that case there is still room to become known as a high-bid school... Wofford must have out-bid Elon (obviously as it was Wofford) and only had 2000 in attendance

How is the bid $amount determined?? Thanks for help

While your not wrong, even if UNI put in a decently large bid there is a zero percent chance that Montana’s bid wouldn’t dwarf what they put in. UNI probably put in a decent bid but they aren’t the school to try and point at about getting in for a great bid.


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[kalm]

I get it...and based on the geography, I can understand ‘labeling’ games with Big Sky Teams as non-Conference games. That said, it still makes no sense to label games with non-Big Sky Teams (North Dakota - an FCS Independent Team in 2018) as Conference games, while, in the same season, playing an actual Big Sky Team and labeling that game a non-Conference game. I read all of the reasons why that is supposed to make sense, but none of them held water. I guess that nonsense ends after next season...so I won’t have to trouble my furry head with it after then.

So, is there any rhyme, reason, or rules as to which Teams label which games with which Teams as non-conference? Are some of those games Conference games for 1 Big Sky Team, but non-Conference games for their Big Sky opponents?

Do you have any suggestions how the Big Sky can be fairly evaluated when their 9 game (real) Conference schedule and lack of OOC FCS renders them so insular? I just don’t see how anyone can look at the BSC’s performance in the past 2 year’s Playoffs and say, “Yep, 3 Teams in that conference deserve seeds.” Sure, EWU had a very good run in 2016 & Weber had a nice run last year, but most BSC Playoff Teams lost their 1st Playoff games to SoCon, CAA, and 2x to non-schollie PFL Teams. Look, EWU, UCD, and Weber may be the 3 greatest Teams in the history of FCS Football, but there’s just no evidence (yet) that points to that; other than their 9-2 records achieved in an insular way in a Conference that has performed (mostly) poorly in the Playoffs the past 2 years - their primary OOC tests during that time frame. I did think Montana State looked pretty good last week, but they played a Team that had played 0 OOC FCS games...so, who knows.

For a Furman fan, it's strange that you're ignoring SoS here.

Regarding insular....

EWU last year played TTU, NDSU and Fordham OOC, finished 7-4 and didn't get in. In the past, we've played OOC games against SHSU, and Nicholls. EWU has home and homes scheduled with WIU and JSU the next two seasons. We still need to fill a couple of spots and would gladly accept a h2h with any Socon.

Montana State this year played two MVFC and an NEC OOC.

Montana played two MVFC and a pioneer OOC.

Davis played Stanford, San Jose State, and San Diego.

This season, the conference had 8 games with MVFC, one with the Ivy, 2 against the Pioneer, 1 against the NEC, and 1 against the SLC in addition to FBS games. Over the past few years (off the top of my head) BSC teams have played Brown, Yale, ACU, McNeese, SHSU, App State, Drake, Wagner, ST. Francis, Fordham, several SWAC's and pretty much every MVFC team.

Hardly insular and even more importantly, challenging.

[kalm]

My understanding is that the conference sets the schedule. Once the conference schedule is set, teams can schedule conference foes they aren't scheduled to play in a season as an OOC game. Not every school does this and I don't think any school does it every year so it is not a 9 game schedule. Big Sky schools also play MVFC schools frequently and Southland schools occasionally so you do get a sample for comparison.

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Correct. In addition, EWU and MSU have had an agreement to play each other OOC in years where we're not matched in conference due to proximity and rivalry. I wish we could have struck the same deal with Montana.

I'd rather see us play a Montana or NAU OOC than schedule another FBS game or DII. As I mentioned earlier, we simply don't have the gate to fly an FCS patsy out here and receive a beat down. It's not worth it to them. We've never once hosted a team from a weak or limited schollie FCS conference in the regular season. We had to fly to Fordham for a one off.