I am outraged that UNI got in at 6-5

[penguinpower]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That Marty Scarano is extremely crafty

[cx500d]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.
The year Youngstown got left out, what was the other bubble teams records? This year a lot of the bubble teams were questionable.

[Outsider1]

The year Youngstown got left out, what was the other bubble teams records? This year a lot of the bubble teams were questionable.

Very true, which means there were lots of bubble teams from various conferences that were going to get in or left out and feelings were going to get hurt regardless. It also meant there could be some very interesting match-ups. The voting factors were just as vast as the field of candidates.

[JSUSoutherner]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.

McNeese got left out at 9-2 what are you whining about.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It's a 24 team playoff. You need to fill it out some how. UNI accomplishes that goal just fine.

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford once got left out at 9-3, with an FBS loss, a loss to defending national runner up Furman, and wins against App State and Georgia southern, We lost to VMI that year, but that was the only VMI team to finish at .500 in the last 37 years.

They call it getting Woofed for a reason fellas.

[Professor Chaos]

UNI wasn't even one of the last 3 in I don't think. Those were SEMO and the two controversial SLC schools. How did they get in? Well having the best win of any bubble team with a win over #5 SDSU helped and having a dominating win over fellow bubble team Indiana St had to help also.

It was a 12 game season in 2013 when YSU got left out so they were 8-4 and they ended the season on a 3 game losing streak (including back-to-back blowouts to the xDSUs to end the season). But like cx said you can't compare bubble teams from different years and be outraged about it. In 2013 there was one less at-large (since the MEAC still had a auto then) and there wasn't a single at-large team with less than 8 wins. This year there were 3 at-large teams with only 6 wins. All you should be outraged about is how weak the bubble was this year compared to 2013.

[centraljerseycat]

When teams that are 6-5 make the playoffs it means it's time to go back to 20 teams.

[Reign of Terrier]

UNI wasn't even one of the last 3 in I don't think. Those were SEMO and the two controversial SLC schools. How did they get in? Well having the best win of any bubble team with a win over #5 SDSU helped and having a dominating win over fellow bubble team Indiana St had to help also.

It was a 12 game season in 2013 when YSU got left out so they were 8-4 and they ended the season on a 3 game losing streak (including back-to-back blowouts to the xDSUs to end the season). But like cx said you can't compare bubble teams from different years and be outraged about it. In 2013 there was one less at-large (since the MEAC still had a auto then) and there wasn't a single at-large team with less than 8 wins. This year there were 3 at-large teams with only 6 wins. All you should be outraged about is how weak the bubble was this year compared to 2013.

In 12 game years it make sense to view 8-4 teams as 7-4 IMO

[JSUSoutherner]

When teams that are 6-5 make the playoffs it means it's time to go back to 20 teams.Just get rid of auto-bids.

[TheRevSFA]

I'm Angry because the team I don't like got in. Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah...

[Redbird 4th & short]

So going 6-5 in MVFC with an FBS loss, is presumably worse than 6-4 Lamar, 6-4 Incarnate Word, or 7-3 ETSU ?? I'm using their D-I record.

UNI SOS is #1 per Massey. The other 3 teams I mentioned are all within 1 win or 1 loss of UNI, and their SOS are as follows: Lamar #71, Incarnate Word #39, and ETSU #68. You don't think the difference in SOS is worth at least 1 game in win or loss column ? Put any of those 3 teams in MVFC, and you can subtract 2 or 3 wins from their record. And MVFC admittedly had a down year.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm Angry because the team I don't like got in. Wah Wah Wah Wah Wah...

It's amazing what not losing to Butler can do to a resume.

[Penguin Nation]

Not only is UNI in but they have great bracket placement (much like Scumbag U in 2016). Scum U did get screwed in 2013, but 2012 was an even bigger screw job..7 D1 wins including a P5 win and finished the season with 3 MVFC wins.

Slightly off topic....but Scum U fired a HC that beat Pitt (and was beating Illinois and Penn State) and was making progress, only to hire a Scumbag that loses to Butler and has the program in regression. Playoff selections are the least of Scum U's concerns rn.

[cx500d]

Just get rid of auto-bids.
I think conference winners deserve an auto bid, even the 5 win ones

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not only is UNI in but they have great bracket placement (much like Scumbag U in 2016). Scum U did get screwed in 2013, but 2012 was an even bigger screw job..7 D1 wins including a P5 win and finished the season with 3 MVFC wins.

Slightly off topic....but Scum U fired a HC that beat Pitt (and was beating Illinois and Penn State) and was making progress, only to hire a Scumbag that loses to Butler and has the program in regression. Playoff selections are the least of Scum U's concerns rn.

Damn...that was harsh..

It takes a real level of being pissed to call your alma mater(??) Scum U. xsalutex

[JSUSoutherner]

I think conference winners deserve an auto bid, even the 5 win onesWe will agree to disagree on that.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk

[Penguin Nation]

Damn...that was harsh..

It takes a real level of being pissed to call your alma mater(??) Scum U. xsalutex

Is Rapist U better? xthumbsupx

[cx500d]

Not only is UNI in but they have great bracket placement (much like Scumbag U in 2016). Scum U did get screwed in 2013, but 2012 was an even bigger screw job..7 D1 wins including a P5 win and finished the season with 3 MVFC wins.

Slightly off topic....but Scum U fired a HC that beat Pitt (and was beating Illinois and Penn State) and was making progress, only to hire a Scumbag that loses to Butler and has the program in regression. Playoff selections are the least of Scum U's concerns rn.

Save your outrage for scumbag u then, not uni.

[caribbeanhen]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.

because the weather is always fair and warm in the dome, besides if you let a 6-5 team in why reward them with Lamar?

Send Lamar to Newark and give JMU the auto as they are one of the best 8 in the nation

another thought, how can it be the comittee rewards the CAA with a record 6 teams, yet JMU is not worthy of a seed?

[cx500d]

We will agree to disagree on that.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk
I’m sure people disagree. While schools are arranged in conferences that’s the fair thing to do. If we want to get rid of conferences and just have 120+ At large memberships then fine

[Penguin Nation]

Save your outrage for scumbag u then, not uni.

No outrage for UNI, that's all from the Scum U fan who started the thread.

[deez_na]

Not only is UNI in but they have great bracket placement (much like Scumbag U in 2016). Scum U did get screwed in 2013, but 2012 was an even bigger screw job..7 D1 wins including a P5 win and finished the season with 3 MVFC wins.

Slightly off topic....but Scum U fired a HC that beat Pitt (and was beating Illinois and Penn State) and was making progress, only to hire a Scumbag that loses to Butler and has the program in regression. Playoff selections are the least of Scum U's concerns rn.

Weak bracket on that half for sure but I don’t see them getting by Eastern Washington anyway. I think the UC Davis game could be a toss up.

[clenz]

I'm outraged over the outrage over the outraged outrageous

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[FUBeAR]

So going 6-5 in MVFC with an FBS loss, is presumably worse than 6-4 Lamar, 6-4 Incarnate Word, or 7-3 ETSU ?? I'm using their D-I record.

ETSU was 7-2 vs. D1 FCS

Wins over Furman, Mercer, Chatt, WCU, VMI, The Citadel, and Gardner-Webb
Losses to Wofford & Samford

D2 win over Mars Hill
D1 FBS loss to Tennessee

[cx500d]

I'm outraged over the outrage over the outraged outrageous

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I’m outraged over your cultural appropriation of the mascot from the school from Mississippi.

[gofurman]

In 12 game years it make sense to view 8-4 teams as 7-4 IMO

Except guess what??? So far Furman only has ELEVEN games next year ! Lol. Please not again. Long story. I hear we are working on it.

[semobison]

And yet, UNI is favored by 27.5 in their first round game. What does that tell you about the their opponent?

[MSUBobcat]

ETSU was 7-2 vs. D1

Wins over Furman, Mercer, Chatt, WCU, VMI, The Citadel, and Gardner-Webb
Losses to Wofford & Samford

D2 win over Mars Hill
FBS loss to Tennessee

FBS IS D1. Just sayin'...

[cx500d]

And yet, UNI is favored by 27.5 in their first round game. What does that tell you about the their opponent?
Uni is overrated?

[JSUSoutherner]

And yet, UNI is favored by 27.5 in their first round game. What does that tell you about the their opponent?

UNI also didn't lose to every team on their schedule with a pulse and they also didn't play a creampuff OOC slate.

[KPSUL]

I think conference winners deserve an auto bid, even the 5 win ones

With a 24 team field I agree. It keeps the whole subdivision interested in the playoff system.

[grizband]

I wouldn't have selected UNI (ETSU or Furman would have been my choice), but no real qualms (well except Montana beat UNI hahah)

[FUBeAR]

FBS IS D1. Just sayin'...Thanks! You’re right. My bad. I fixed it.

We SoCon peeps just usually ‘toss off’ those losses to SEC & Top-10 ACC Teams, along with the lower division wins, when we’re talking about comparing records with other FCS Teams. You know, it’s not like they played San Jose State...whose Massey Rating is below Incarnate Word’s...and Furman’s.

[gofurman]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.

Much more upset about Lamar and incarnate Word than UNI

I respect tough conferences. Now I admit I DONT know UNI who they beat or lost to.

Fully admit my ignorance there.

**On other hand just SUSPICIOUS - or blatant - that Southland last year left out McNeese at 9-2 (who probably deserved to be in!!?). And this year 6 and 7 win Southland teams get in ?? Soooo the southland got that much better in one year? NOT picking on southland - McNeese probably shoulda been in last year! But to swing that drastically is shocking

[PaladinFan]

When teams that are 6-5 make the playoffs it means it's time to go back to 20 teams.

This is my opinion.

Field of 16. Play the national title game before Christmas.

We shouldn't be scraping the barrel for the 5th and 6th best teams in a conference to fill out a playoff field.

[JSUSoutherner]

Much more upset about Lamar and incarnate Word than UNI

I respect tough conferences. Now I admit I DONT know UNI who they beat or lost to.

Fully admit my ignorance there.

**On other hand just SUSPICIOUS - or blatant - that Southland last year left out McNeese at 9-2 (who probably deserved to be in!!?). And this year 6 and 7 win Southland teams get in ?? Soooo the southland got that much better in one year?

More like the bubble got that much worse

[gofurman]

More like the bubble got that much worse

JSU. Agree. Though odd that if bubble got worse and yet SoCon couldn’t send one of their champions ??? IE SoCon snent three teams last year. Bubble is worse this year and they cut us to two teams ???

[KPSUL]

Much more upset about Lamar and incarnate Word than UNI

I respect tough conferences. Now I admit I DONT know UNI who they beat or lost to.

Fully admit my ignorance there.

**On other hand just SUSPICIOUS - or blatant - that Southland last year left out McNeese at 9-2 (who probably deserved to be in!!?). And this year 6 and 7 win Southland teams get in ?? Soooo the southland got that much better in one year? NOT picking on southland - McNeese probably shoulda been in last year! But to swing that drastically is shocking

UNI has one signature win - SDSU. They also beat Indiana St 33-0 early in the season which was probably the rationalization for putting UNI in and keeping ISU blue out.

Hard to argue that Southland improved relative to other FCS conferences when the two at-large selectees, Lamar and IWU. played no OOC FCS games this season.

[clenz]

I’m outraged over your cultural appropriation of the mascot from the school from Mississippi.I'm outaged that you think I'm appropriating them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

JSU. Agree. Though odd that if bubble got worse and yet SoCon couldn’t send one of their champions ??? IE SoCon snent three teams last year. Bubble is worse this year and they cut us to two teams ???Maybe the SoCon is so bad it's just weighing everyone else down.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk

[Outsider1]

The SLC is NOT an elite conference, but why is it hard to believe it improved significantly in one year? Does that mean the improvement stays over time? No, it doesn't. Does that mean the significant improvement was a "dramatic" shift? Probably not. But, that also doesn't mean that some personal subjective memory of a sucky conference is the ONLY explanation. That is personal bias. Even with given stats, how many SLC teams moved up in the rankings a significant amount? Several. Does a "dramatic" shift only mean that 3-5 teams that were ranked at 60 or lower are now ALL top 25? How likely is that to actually happen in ANY given year with ANY conference? People can bitch and moan and bring up their personal qualms all day. Two out of our 3 play-off team may lose in the first round. They may not. That DOESN'T mean that significant improvement didn't happen or that some other conference's bubble team doesn't get bounced in the first round either. Could the committee have been making up some for McNeese last year? I have no clue and don't claim to make some excuse that it did or didn't. What I will do is say that UNI deserved the chance like any other comparable team and some teams got hosed. It happened last year. It will happen next year and every year after that...

[Outsider1]

Now, let your "outrage" of the "outrageous" continue... xthumbsupx

[cx500d]

I'm outaged that you think I'm appropriating them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Think? It’s right there in every post!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Complete crock of ****. 5 losses. YSU isn't any good and blew them out. How does this happen? Why does UNI always get the benefit of the doubt among the selection committee? I've been watching this boat for the last 28 years and it should be exposed. Youngstown was left out with 8 wins one year.


Easy answer: #1 Strength of Schedule

[JayJ79]

Just get rid of auto-bids.
you obviously don't understand the NCAA


Send Lamar to Newark and give JMU the auto as they are one of the best 8 in the nation

another thought, how can it be the comittee rewards the CAA with a record 6 teams, yet JMU is not worthy of a seed?
Why would JMU get the auto? They went 6-2 in conference while Maine went 7-1.
And it is quite possible that a "deal" was set up to give the CAA a 6th bid at the "cost" of JMU not getting a seed. Such things have happened before.

And as for the comparison with YSU getting left out at 7-5 in 2014: YSU played Duquesne, Butler, and St. Francis. Not exactly a challenging OOC schedule.

[JSUSoutherner]

you obviously don't understand the NCAA


Why would JMU get the auto? They went 6-2 in conference while Maine went 7-1.
And it is quite possible that a "deal" was set up to give the CAA a 6th bid at the "cost" of JMU not getting a seed. Such things have happened before.

And as for the comparison with YSU getting left out at 7-5 in 2014: YSU played Duquesne, Butler, and St. Francis. Not exactly a challenging OOC schedule.I completely understand the NCAA.

That's why I hate the NCAA.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk

[Catbooster]

I’m outraged over your cultural appropriation of the mascot from the school from Mississippi.
I think it's appropriate to be outraged over his appropriation.

[FUBeAR]

The SLC is NOT an elite conference, but why is it hard to believe it improved significantly in one year?I think, if the SLC wants to claim improvement in 2018 over 2017, it is imperative to produce tangible evidence of that improvement and that evidence can’t exclusively consist of wins over other SLC Teams that have traditionally had better reputations, unless those Teams had strong OOC wins. But here’s what we have...




SLC Team
OPPONENT
RESULT


UIW
@ New Mexico
L62-30 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401022515)


UIW
@ North Texas
L58-16 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401014987)




Lamar
vs Kentucky Christian
W70-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030192)


Lamar
@ Texas Tech
L77-0 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013322)




Nicholls
@ Kansas
W26-23 OT (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013048)


Nicholls
@ Tulane
L42-17 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019480)




McNeese
@ No. Colorado
W17-14 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030208)




McNeese
@ BYU
L30-3 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401016406)




Abilene Christian
@ Baylor
L55-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013026)


Abilene Christian
vs Angelo State
W41-24 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030125)




Stephen F. Austin
@ Mississippi State
L 63-6 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012254)




Sam Houston St
vs Prairie View A&M
W41-32 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030225)


Sam Houston St
vs North Dakota
L24-23 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030226)




Central Arkansas
@ Tulsa
L38-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019476)


Central Arkansas
vs Murray State
W26-13 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030163)




Northwestern St
@ Texas A&M
L59-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012258)


Northwestern St
vs Grambling
W34-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030214)




SE Louisiana
@ Louisiana Monroe
L34-31 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401021655)


SE Louisiana
@ LSU
L31-0 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012264)




Houston Baptist
vs Southwest Baptist
W49-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030175)




Houston Baptist
@ SMU
L63-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019498)




1 FBS OT win over a bad Kansas Team
4 FCS wins - 2 SWAC, 1 OVC (probably the best FCS win), 1 Big Sky bottom-feeder

Does that show significant improvement?

[JayJ79]

I completely understand the NCAA.

That's why I hate the NCAA.
I take it that you'd rather the men's basketball tournament get rid of AQs as well and basically just be a bunch of P5 teams.

[JSUSoutherner]

I take it that you'd rather the men's basketball tournament get rid of AQs as well and basically just be a bunch of P5 teams.

Different sport. Non-applicable.

There aren't auto-bids in FBS.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Is there a spread on this game yet?

[Redbird 4th & short]

Much more upset about Lamar and incarnate Word than UNI

I respect tough conferences. Now I admit I DONT know UNI who they beat or lost to.

Fully admit my ignorance there.

**On other hand just SUSPICIOUS - or blatant - that Southland last year left out McNeese at 9-2 (who probably deserved to be in!!?). And this year 6 and 7 win Southland teams get in ?? Soooo the southland got that much better in one year? NOT picking on southland - McNeese probably shoulda been in last year! But to swing that drastically is shocking

100% agreed ... with one correction .. both Southland teams were 6-4 against D-I.

As for UNI, I posted earlier in this thread .. UNI at 6-5 played #1 SOS in FCS per Massey.

And yes, the swing in attitude with Southland is "shocking" and "suspicious" .. in 2017, McNeese at 8-2 (D-I) against 86th ranked SOS wasn't good enough. But this year, same conference, with UCA and SHSU fading to mediocrity, suddenly Lamar at 6-4 against 71st ranked SOS is good enough ... why .. how ? And IW is also 6-4 against 39th ranked SOS, and no wins against playoff teams .. in fact lost to Lamar, who shouldn't be in playoff.

Somebody complained very loudly and successfully on Southland's behalf . They have a really down year from a year ago, and get more teams this year ?? Somebody got to somebody. What did Southland do exactly to improve their standing this year over last year ?? Nothing, they did worse and got more teams.

Then there is ETSU at 7-3 against against 68th ranked SOS .. only 1 game against a playoff team (8-3 Wofford) which they lost by 13. They got destroyed by #40 Tennessee (5-6) by 56. For comparison, UNI lost to #24 Iowa (7-4) by 24. And despite playing 68th ranked SOS, they only put away 1 team all year. They barely beat 4 weak teams .. 1-10 VMI by 3, 3-8 WCU by 2, 5-6 Mercer by 3, 4-6 Citadel by 3, then 6-5 Chattanooga by 3. They only managed to put away 1 team all year .. Gardner Webb by 45. How is this a "playoff resume" ?

So UNI's 6-5 against #1 SOS compares very favorably to those 3 teams for starters. .. I think difference in SOS is worth much more than 1 loss.

And I would have taken ISUb at 6-4 against 24th ranked SOS over all 3 of those teams. And then 6-4 Furman would also have made much more sense than Lamar ... and been right in thick of bubble with ETS and IW. I know they lost at ETSU, but one game does not decide a playoff team. Furman did better than ETSU against rest of field.

[katss07]

I’m okay with UNI getting in, but the matchup with Lamar just further proves the need to seed every team. UNI clearly snuck in. And they get rewarded with maybe the weakest at large selection (admittedly). Lamar at UNI could very well be the biggest blowout of the weekend. And it pains me to say that as an SLC supporter.

Instead of UNI sneaking in and playing a weak opponent, how about we seed them. Then the Panthers would have to play on the road against a Wofford or JMU or Nicholls. But of course money is power and regionalization sucks balls.

[cx500d]

I’m okay with UNI getting in, but the matchup with Lamar just further proves the need to seed every team. UNI clearly snuck in. And they get rewarded with maybe the weakest at large selection (admittedly). Lamar at UNI could very well be the biggest blowout of the weekend. And it pains me to say that as an SLC supporter.

Instead of UNI sneaking in and playing a weak opponent, how about we seed them. Then the Panthers would have to play on the road against a Wofford or JMU or Nicholls. But of course money is power and regionalization sucks balls.
I’m trying to understand this post...you make the claim that uni clearly snuck in, but on the other hand you think Lamar is going to get blown out...this sounds more like Lamar sneaking in to me...

[thebootfitter]

Different sport. Non-applicable.

There aren't auto-bids in FBS.
Ha ha! I don't think you understand the NCAA like you say you do.

The FBS "Championship" isn't an NCAA event. Basketball is. The argument/comparison is completely applicable.

[katss07]

I’m trying to understand this post...you make the claim that uni clearly snuck in, but on the other hand you link Lamar is going to get blown out...this sounds more like Lamar sneaking in to me...
Both teams snuck in. Lamar was the last team in. UNI was 6-5. Yet they match up. Seeding prevents this kind of matchup and rewards stronger teams with matchups against weaker squads. For example, I’m sure JMU would have preferred to play Duquense in round 1.

[gofurman]

And yet, UNI is favored by 27.5 in their first round game. What does that tell you about the their opponent?

EXACTLY the point I made earlier. The committee SAYS they want the best teams ...

Vegas is where the money talks and BS walks. LAMAR is NOT deserving of a spot . 27.5 point underdog. Good grief. Furman would not be a 27.5 underdog. If we want good competitive games then pick the best teams without bias

[JSUSoutherner]

I really don't think UNI "snuck in" at all.

Sent from my Galaxy S9+ using Tapatalk

[Outsider1]

I think, if the SLC wants to claim improvement in 2018 over 2017, it is imperative to produce tangible evidence of that improvement and that evidence can’t exclusively consist of wins over other SLC Teams that have traditionally had better reputations, unless those Teams had strong OOC wins. But here’s what we have...




SLC Team
OPPONENT
RESULT


UIW
@ New Mexico
L62-30 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401022515)


UIW
@ North Texas
L58-16 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401014987)




Lamar
vs
Kentucky Christian

W70-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030192)






Lamar
@ Texas Tech
L77-0 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013322)




Nicholls
@ Kansas
W26-23 OT (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013048)






Nicholls
@ Tulane
L42-17 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019480)




McNeese
@ No. Colorado
W17-14 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030208)




McNeese
@ BYU
L30-3 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401016406)




Abilene Christian
@ Baylor
L55-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401013026)






Abilene Christian
vs
Angelo State

W41-24 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030125)




Stephen F. Austin
@ Mississippi State
L 63-6 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012254)




Sam Houston St
vs Prairie View A&M
W41-32 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030225)






Sam Houston St
vs North Dakota
L24-23 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030226)




Central Arkansas
@ Tulsa
L38-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019476)






Central Arkansas
vs Murray State
W26-13 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030163)




Northwestern St
@ Texas A&M
L59-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012258)






Northwestern St
vs Grambling
W34-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030214)




SE Louisiana
@ Louisiana Monroe
L34-31 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401021655)






SE Louisiana
@ LSU
L31-0 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401012264)




Houston Baptist
vs Southwest Baptist
W49-7 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030175)




Houston Baptist
@ SMU
L63-27 (http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401019498)




1 FBS OT win over a bad Kansas Team
4 FCS wins - 2 SWAC, 1 OVC (probably the best FCS win), 1 Big Sky bottom-feeder

Does that show significant improvement?


Considering most of us would have lost more of those games last year? I would say yes.... You're chart is pretty but it doesn't really say THAT much. The opponent teams on it are all over the place. I wish we had better OOC scheduling.

[ElCid]

I think conference winners deserve an auto bid, even the 5 win ones

Yes. Any talk of conf winners not getting a spot is ridiculous. That should always be a given. You are part of FCS and you win your conf, you go. We are not like the butt head FBS P5 aholes who are snobs. Take that auto away and we might just disintegrate FCS as we know it. The playoff would simply be the domain of like 6-7 conferences every year. That would be a shame.

[katss07]

The Southland is a Top 5 FCS conference and it seems like everyone outside of MVFC and Furman fans recognize this. Lamar doesn’t even get considered in a normal year, UIW problem doesn’t ethier. But in one of the weakest years ever bubble wise I think the committee felt the need to throw in some SLC teams.

The Southland will soon pass up the SoCon. Nicholls would beat anyone in that conference this year.

[cx500d]

The Southland is a Top 5 FCS conference and it seems like everyone outside of MVFC and Furman fans recognize this. Lamar doesn’t even get considered in a normal year, UIW problem doesn’t ethier. But in one of the weakest years ever bubble wise I think the committee felt the need to throw in some SLC teams.

The Southland will soon pass up the SoCon. Nicholls would beat anyone in that conference this year.
Holy trollerama, katman

[katss07]

Holy trollerama, katman
Do you want Monmouth in again?

[cx500d]

Do you want Monmouth in again?
Monmouth isn’t in SoCon....what’s your point?

[FUBeAR]

Considering most of us would have lost more of those games last year? I would say yes.... You're chart is pretty but it doesn't really say THAT much. The opponent teams on it are all over the place. I wish we had better OOC scheduling.Thanks - but this chart is actually quite ugly. I did it from my phone. I just made a few edits and improved it a little bit...but you should see FUBeAR's Award-Winning Work (self-awarded) in the SoCon threads!

Anyway - saying what MIGHT have happened last year vs. what did happen this year is FAR from tangible evidence.

Hey, the SoCon, with the exception of Chatt, screwed the pooch OOC this year...and that's probably a big reason a deserving SoCon Champion is sitting at home, but in very recent years the SoCon has had solid OOC performances and decent prior-year Playoff performance to point to as tangible evidence of improvement after the departures of Appy, GaSou, and Elon in 2013...and that's why the SoCon EARNED 3 Teams last year and 4 Teams in 2016, 2 the year before that, but only 1 in 2014.

I don't know about the Southland's OOC in other years, but I do know that only 1 Southland Team, not named Sam Houston, has won a grand total of 1 Playoff game since 2013. If SHSU was sitting at 7-4 or 6-4, I could see them getting the benefit of the doubt and going in with Nicholls, but there is NOTHING (except circular logic) that points to "improvement" in the SLC this year warranting the inclusion of UIW and/or Lamar in this Playoff field. If they win a few games in the Playoffs, GREAT, those of us doubters were wrong and, then, with reasonable success in their 2019 OOC games, THEN the SLC should begin to be considered as a multi-bid league in 2019. It was NOT EARNED this year, but the Committee GAVE it to them...Let's see if they can capitalize on the opportunity that they have received.

[Outsider1]

Thanks - but this chart is actually quite ugly. I did it from my phone. I just made a few edits and improved it a little bit...but you should see FUBeAR's Award-Winning Work (self-awarded) in the SoCon threads!

Anyway - saying what MIGHT have happened last year vs. what did happen this year is FAR from tangible evidence.

Hey, the SoCon, with the exception of Chatt, screwed the pooch OOC this year...and that's probably a big reason a deserving SoCon Champion is sitting at home, but in very recent years the SoCon has had solid OOC performances and decent prior-year Playoff performance to point to as tangible evidence of improvement after the departures of Appy, GaSou, and Elon in 2013...and that's why the SoCon EARNED 3 Teams last year and 4 Teams in 2016, 2 the year before that, but only 1 in 2014.

I don't know about the Southland's OOC in other years, but I do know that only 1 Southland Team, not named Sam Houston, has won a grand total of 1 Playoff game since 2013. If SHSU was sitting at 7-4 or 6-4, I could see them getting the benefit of the doubt and going in with Nicholls, but there is NOTHING (except circular logic) that points to "improvement" in the SLC this year warranting the inclusion of UIW and/or Lamar in this Playoff field. If they win a few games in the Playoffs, GREAT, those of us doubters were wrong and, then, with reasonable success in their 2019 OOC games, THEN the SLC should begin to be considered as a multi-bid league in 2019. It was NOT EARNED this year, but the Committee GAVE it to them...Let's see if they can capitalize on the opportunity that they have received.

Should both UIW and Lamar have been included, most probably not, but indeed that will be answered on the field. Your chart, pretty or ugly aside, still didn't show much. You can doubt all you wish. EARNED and GAVE are subjective on this board depending on what data each of us look at and how we choose to interpret that data. We definitely didn't deserve post season: UIW, Lamar, Furman, other bubble temas yes & no... Doubting is fine, but more than that is definitely ocurring now; but it is what it is.

[caribbeanhen]

The Southland is a Top 5 FCS conference and it seems like everyone outside of MVFC and Furman fans recognize this. Lamar doesn’t even get considered in a normal year, UIW problem doesn’t ethier. But in one of the weakest years ever bubble wise I think the committee felt the need to throw in some SLC teams.

The Southland will soon pass up the SoCon. Nicholls would beat anyone in that conference this year.

The Southren Conference is a little bit like the Post Reconstruction era right now, waiting for dearly departed Rhett Butler and Uncle Remus to come back home but they are gone with the wind

[Tim James]

Back in the 16 team playoff days, no one worse than 8-3 got into the playoffs. Then after that, 7-4 teams started getting into the playoffs. Now 6-5 teams are getting in. Enough is enough.

[cx500d]

Back in the 16 team playoff days, no one worse than 8-3 got into the playoffs. Then after that, 7-4 teams started getting into the playoffs. Now 6-5 teams are getting in. Enough is enough.
Last year there was a 5-7 team in.
Well I guess they were 5-6 when the playoffs started.

[JayJ79]

Back in the 16 team playoff days, no one worse than 8-3 got into the playoffs. Then after that, 7-4 teams started getting into the playoffs. Now 6-5 teams are getting in. Enough is enough.

too much football!
everyone should follow the Ivy League's lead.
only 10 games, no postseason.
enough is enough!

[cx500d]

too much football!
everyone should follow the Ivy League's lead.
only 10 games, no postseason.
enough is enough!
So just participation trophies?

[thebootfitter]

So just participation trophies?
Methinks you missed the purple tongue sticking into the cheek.

[JayJ79]

So just participation trophies?
does the Ivy League get participation trophies?

[TheKingpin28]

does the Ivy League get participation trophies?Nah, just the moral superiority. xthumbsupx xlolx

Sent from my SM-J727V using Tapatalk

[MR. CHICKEN]

does the Ivy League get participation trophies?

....JES' DEGREES....DAT INSURE.....UH COMFORTABLE.....LIFE.......BRAWK!

[Redbird 4th & short]

I’m okay with UNI getting in, but the matchup with Lamar just further proves the need to seed every team. UNI clearly snuck in. And they get rewarded with maybe the weakest at large selection (admittedly). Lamar at UNI could very well be the biggest blowout of the weekend. And it pains me to say that as an SLC supporter.

Instead of UNI sneaking in and playing a weak opponent, how about we seed them. Then the Panthers would have to play on the road against a Wofford or JMU or Nicholls. But of course money is power and regionalization sucks balls.
this is true, but requires some context. Historically there are very few easy playin games in Midwest, or West ... but every year, there are 3 or 4 weak auto-bids that teams out east and southeast get to play in playin round. That a MVFC playoff finally gets a weak playin game (an at large no less !!!), is long overdue. PFL's San Diego has stepped it up in recent years, so even they would be getting at large bids if there were no autobid. But that used to be our only chance to get a weak autobid in Midwest or West. Teams from Colonial (like UNH) have been feasting on some bad autobid games in 1st round for a long time.

So I say, it's about time MVFC got an easy 1st round game. I know, it is matter of geography ... but point remains same. the east coast teams get 3 or 4 weak playin games almost every year.

[Redbird 4th & short]

Back in the 16 team playoff days, no one worse than 8-3 got into the playoffs. Then after that, 7-4 teams started getting into the playoffs. Now 6-5 teams are getting in. Enough is enough.
So FCS has lowest % of teams making postseason as it stands to today, compared to all other levels of football (except D-III maybe) and most other sports as well .... and you argue they should make it even lower ? Most levels of most sports have somethwere between 33 and 45% of teams getting shot in post season.. FCS is around 25% depending on how you treat MEAC/SWAC .. and you want it closer to 16% ? So what would you do with the 10 autobids where historically 3 or 4 autobids are not worth of playoff bid ? Granted, with emergence of Kennesaw and San Diego, that is generally a little less true than 3+ years ago. POint remains same .. what would you do with autobids ?

[MR. CHICKEN]

this is true, but requires some context. Historically there are very few easy playin games in Midwest, or West ... but every year, there are 3 or 4 weak auto-bids that teams out east and southeast get to play in playin round. That a MVFC playoff finally gets a weak playin game (an at large no less !!!), is long overdue. PFL's San Diego has stepped it up in recent years, so even they would be getting at large bids if there were no autobid. But that used to be our only chance to get a weak autobid in Midwest or West. Teams from Colonial (like UNH) have been feasting on some bad autobid games in 1st round for a long time.

So I say, it's about time MVFC got an easy 1st round game. I know, it is matter of geography ... but point remains same. the east coast teams get 3 or 4 weak playin games almost every year.

....NOR'EAST...MO' POPULATED....SO TOWSON DRAWS DUQUESNE.......BUT TWO SEEDS.......LIMIT.......MATCH-UPS IN DIS REGION.......SO COMMITTEE......OVER-RIDES JMU....TA SAVE PLANE TICKET TA DELAWARE...AN'....OVC LADS......RIDIN' S.E. MIZZOU'S SUDDEN NET WORFF......TA STONY BROOK.....LITTLE TOUGHER....DAN USUAL......AWK!

[neverobeyed]

And yet, UNI is favored by 27.5 in their first round game. What does that tell you about the their opponent?

Meh. Farley gets all rashy if up or down by more than eight points.

[FUBeAR]

Historically there are very few easy playin games in...West ... PFL's San Diego has stepped it up in recent years, so even they would be getting at large bids if there were no autobid. But that used to be our only chance to get a weak autobid in Midwest or West.C’mon now. Let’s not kid ourselves about San Diego and the PFL because they knocked off a couple of Big Lie Teams in the past 2 years. That fact informs us a lot more about the Big Lie than it does San Diego.

If San Diego doesn’t get the PFL autobid, they are NOT in the Playoffs. Stetson was a 2 loss Team this year and not even ‘on the bubble.’ No PFL Team will ever receive an At-Large bid, unless they add scholarships. San Diego squeaked by 6-5 Davidson 2 weeks ago and gave up about 900 yards in the process. Davidson has been one of the worst college football teams, at any level, for many years. They had to schedule #FakeTeam College of Faith a couple of years ago just to get 1 win in like a 3 year span. The Toreros also barely edged out 6-5 Dayton, who lost to Drake and Marist.

Love how the Committee saved the Big Lie a 3rd straight year of an embarrassing 1st round loss to San Diego by seeding all of the BLC Teams. Nothing against Nicholls, but I am SO pulling for the San Diego Team that barely beat Davidson & Dayton to beat Nicholls and go up to Cheney and cut EWU in the 2nd round.

GO TOREROS!!

[Redbird 4th & short]

....NOR'EAST...MO' POPULATED....SO TOWSON DRAWS DUQUESNE.......BUT TWO SEEDS.......LIMIT.......MATCH-UPS IN DIS REGION.......SO COMMITTEE......OVER-RIDES JMU....TA SAVE PLANE TICKET TA DELAWARE...AN'....OVC LADS......RIDIN' S.E. MIZZOU'S SUDDEN NET WORFF......TA STONY BROOK.....LITTLE TOUGHER....DAN USUAL......AWK!
oh sh-t ... I actually think I understood and agree with your point having looked closer ... which means, I can now speak fluent chicken !!!

Seriously, agree what I said has become less true this year with San Diego (Pioneer), Kennesaw (Big South) and Colgate (Patriot) emergence, plus no MEAC team. So that leaves NEC's Duquense. I guess I had forgotten about Colgate .. easy SOS, but seem impressive defensively .. and did pretty well against 9-2 Army losing 28-14 .. their only quality opponent all year. They could be this years Kennesaw.

Ok so that leaves NEC as only true weak autobid, even though Patriot and Bog South conferences are as weak as ever after their top team .. so the chicken is right.

Man, the bubble was soft this year. Down year overall for FCS ??!! At least a very spotty year, other than Colonial re-emergence and depth .. MVFC is down, Southern is down, Southland is down, OVC is flat (?), Big Sky seems good at top 3, but down otherwise.

In theory, Bison should waltz in to and out of Frisco. I don't see anyone challenging them this year.

[ST_Lawson]

this is true, but requires some context. Historically there are very few easy playin games in Midwest, or West ... but every year, there are 3 or 4 weak auto-bids that teams out east and southeast get to play in playin round. That a MVFC playoff finally gets a weak playin game (an at large no less !!!), is long overdue. PFL's San Diego has stepped it up in recent years, so even they would be getting at large bids if there were no autobid. But that used to be our only chance to get a weak autobid in Midwest or West. Teams from Colonial (like UNH) have been feasting on some bad autobid games in 1st round for a long time.

So I say, it's about time MVFC got an easy 1st round game. I know, it is matter of geography ... but point remains same. the east coast teams get 3 or 4 weak playin games almost every year.

I don't really disagree with you that many MVFC teams seem to get a larger amount of the tough first-round matchups (WIU going to Weber State last year xmadx) but I'm not sure UNI is the one to be making the case with considering they blew out Monmouth last year (46-7), Eastern Illinois in 2015 (53-17), and Stephen F. Austin in 2014 (44-10)...all games at the UNIDome. UNI frequently (not always, I know they lost to Lehigh in 2010 and had trouble with Wofford in 2011) seems to get a pretty easy draw in their first matchup. Also, the last 6 times UNI has made the playoffs as an at-large, they've hosted their first-round game and won all but 1 of those games (last time UNI had to go on the road in the first round was 2001 at Eastern Illinois). Yes, I realize that's determined by bids, but it still sucks that a team like WIU has played 7 games in the playoffs the last 15 years...none of which were at home, and only one was close enough to drive/bus to. We're never going to outbid anyone, so pretty much our only hope of hosting a playoff game is to get a seed...not an easy thing to do with NDSU and SDSU in the conference.

[MSUBobcat]

C’mon now. Let’s not kid ourselves about San Diego and the PFL because they knocked off a couple of Big Lie Teams in the past 2 years. That fact informs us a lot more about the Big Lie than it does San Diego. If San Diego doesn’t get the PFL autobid, they are NOT in the Playoffs. Stetson was a 2 loss Team this year and not even ‘on the bubble.’ No PFL Team will ever receive an At-Large bid, unless they add scholarships. San Diego squeaked by 6-5 Davidson 2 weeks ago and gave up about 900 yards in the process. Davidson has been one of the worst college football teams, at any level, for many years. They had to schedule #FakeTeam College of Faith a couple of years ago just to get 1 win in like a 3 year span. The Toreros also barely edged out 6-5 Dayton, who lost to Drake and Marist.

Love how the Committee saved the Big Lie a 3rd straight year of an embarrassing 1st round loss to San Diego by seeding all of the BLC Teams. Nothing against Nicholls, but I am SO pulling for the San Diego Team that barely beat Davidson & Dayton to beat Nicholls and go up to Cheney and cut EWU in the 2nd round.

GO TOREROS!!

The butthurt is strong with this one. You'd almost think that a conference talking all this smack about losing to San Diego would have vastly outperformed the other conference in the playoffs in those years. But even with the 2 losses to USD, the Big Lie has slightly outperformed the other conference. In 2016, the BSC went 2-4 against nonconference foes and the last conference team was bounced in the semifinals, while the SoCon went 1-3 against nonconference and only made the quarterfinals. Edge - Big Sky. In 2017, both the BSC and the SoCon went 1-2 against nonconference opponents and lost in the quarterfinals. Edge - neither. And EWU arguably should have been in over NAU as they finished with the same records and had a FBS loss, but all 3 of EWU's FCS losses were to playoff teams, while NAU lost to 2 FCS playoff teams and a non-playoff team. Point is... the results of the past 2 playoffs actually slightly favor the conference that you constantly talk smack about. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The SoCon hasn't made it past the quarterfinals since 2012 when GaSo, who left the next year, made it. Since GaSo and Appy left, the SoCon has been even weaker than the BSC. Oh the irony. xcoffeex

[Reign of Terrier]

The butthurt is strong with this one. You'd almost think that a conference talking all this smack about losing to San Diego would have vastly outperformed the other conference in the playoffs in those years. But even with the 2 losses to USD, the Big Lie has slightly outperformed the other conference. In 2016, the BSC went 2-4 against nonconference foes and the last conference team was bounced in the semifinals, while the SoCon went 1-3 against nonconference and only made the quarterfinals. Edge - Big Sky. In 2017, both the BSC and the SoCon went 1-2 against nonconference opponents and lost in the quarterfinals. Edge - neither. And EWU arguably should have been in over NAU as they finished with the same records and had a FBS loss, but all 3 of EWU's FCS losses were to playoff teams, while NAU lost to 2 FCS playoff teams and a non-playoff team. Point is... the results of the past 2 playoffs actually slightly favor the conference that you constantly talk smack about. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. The SoCon hasn't made it past the quarterfinals since 2012 when GaSo, who left the next year, made it. Since GaSo and Appy left, the SoCon has been even weaker than the BSC. Oh the irony. xcoffeex

Only 3 Big Sky teams have won a playoff game since 2015.

4 teams in the Southern Conference have done that. 5 if ETSU pulls the upset on Saturday.

The Big Sky is pretty good at the top every year, definitely better than the Socon (but if Wofford goes on a run this year...who knows), but the Socon is more balanced to where those third and fourth place teams don't disappoint. Unless it's Samford. The Big Sky's third/fourth team in usually lays an egg. If not that team, than at least one that makes the field has a head-scratching loss.

[UpstateBison]

Only 3 Big Sky teams have won a playoff game since 2015.

4 teams in the Southern Conference have done that. 5 if ETSU pulls the upset on Saturday.

The Big Sky is pretty good at the top every year, definitely better than the Socon (but if Wofford goes on a run this year...who knows), but the Socon is more balanced to where those third and fourth place teams don't disappoint. Unless it's Samford. The Big Sky's third/fourth team in usually lays an egg. If not that team, than at least one that makes the field has a head-scratching loss.

I will be more impressed if a SoCon team can beat a non-SoCon team in the round of 16.

[cx500d]

Only 3 Big Sky teams have won a playoff game since 2015.

4 teams in the Southern Conference have done that. 5 if ETSU pulls the upset on Saturday.

The Big Sky is pretty good at the top every year, definitely better than the Socon (but if Wofford goes on a run this year...who knows), but the Socon is more balanced to where those third and fourth place teams don't disappoint. Unless it's Samford. The Big Sky's third/fourth team in usually lays an egg. If not that team, than at least one that makes the field has a head-scratching loss.

Well they aren’t playing San Diego this year....

[Reign of Terrier]

I will be more impressed if a SoCon team can beat a non-SoCon team in the round of 16.

Well that's a high and specific criteria. To fulfill it, the Socon has to either beat a seeded team that isn't in their conference or be a seeded team themselves. Beating a seeded team is usually hard when you're not a seeded team, and having it OOC makes it harder because of regionalization. Socon has won lots of OOC playoff games in the last few years. This includes those from the Big Sky, Big South, MVFC, CAA, and Patriot League.

Look, if your leading criteria for a good team is how far they reach in the playoffs (semis, finals, etc), I'll admit the Socon won't pass that test. The problem with single elimination tournaments is that they are great at determining who the best team is but not who the second best (or third best or fourth best...etc) team is. Here's a random assortment of teams that have beaten a nonconference team in the round of 16 since 2014:

New Hampshire
Chattanooga
Coastal Carolina
Sam Houston State
Villanova
Charleston Southern
Jacksonville State
Colgate
Weber State
Kennesaw State
NDSU
UNI
SDSU
EWU
Youngstown State

This measure is kind of arbitrary and I don't see why you would value it. It says more about the matchups teams get than the quality of the teams/programs/conferences. Charleston Southern's only win in the playoffs was against a non-conference team in the round of 16. The Big South has *more teams* (3) with wins in the round of 16 against OOC opponents than the Socon (1). Does that mean that the Big South is a better playoff team? No. It just means they are more likely to not play conference opponents in the round of 16 because they're usually a one bid league. Same for the Patriot league. It's telling that the team in the socon that has accomplished that is Chattanooga, who is more of a geographic outlier in the socon and thus plays more diverse teams.

Bottom line: this criteria isn't useful and embodies moving the goal post to exclude the success of teams like Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel.

[cx500d]

C’mon now. Let’s not kid ourselves about San Diego and the PFL because they knocked off a couple of Big Lie Teams in the past 2 years. That fact informs us a lot more about the Big Lie than it does San Diego.

If San Diego doesn’t get the PFL autobid, they are NOT in the Playoffs. Stetson was a 2 loss Team this year and not even ‘on the bubble.’ No PFL Team will ever receive an At-Large bid, unless they add scholarships. San Diego squeaked by 6-5 Davidson 2 weeks ago and gave up about 900 yards in the process. Davidson has been one of the worst college football teams, at any level, for many years. They had to schedule #FakeTeam College of Faith a couple of years ago just to get 1 win in like a 3 year span. The Toreros also barely edged out 6-5 Dayton, who lost to Drake and Marist.

Love how the Committee saved the Big Lie a 3rd straight year of an embarrassing 1st round loss to San Diego by seeding all of the BLC Teams. Nothing against Nicholls, but I am SO pulling for the San Diego Team that barely beat Davidson & Dayton to beat Nicholls and go up to Cheney and cut EWU in the 2nd round.

GO TOREROS!!
Me too! I hope San Diego isnt looking past nicholls; they probably have to have some sort of game plan to ensure they get by the #1 slc team

[UpstateBison]

Well that's a high and specific criteria. To fulfill it, the Socon has to either beat a seeded team that isn't in their conference or be a seeded team themselves. Beating a seeded team is usually hard when you're not a seeded team, and having it OOC makes it harder because of regionalization. Socon has won lots of OOC playoff games in the last few years. This includes those from the Big Sky, Big South, MVFC, CAA, and Patriot League.

Look, if your leading criteria for a good team is how far they reach in the playoffs (semis, finals, etc), I'll admit the Socon won't pass that test. The problem with single elimination tournaments is that they are great at determining who the best team is but not who the second best (or third best or fourth best...etc) team is. Here's a random assortment of teams that have beaten a nonconference team in the round of 16 since 2014:

New Hampshire
Chattanooga
Coastal Carolina
Sam Houston State
Villanova
Charleston Southern
Jacksonville State
Colgate
Weber State
Kennesaw State
NDSU
UNI
SDSU
EWU
Youngstown State

This measure is kind of arbitrary and I don't see why you would value it. It says more about the matchups teams get than the quality of the teams/programs/conferences. Charleston Southern's only win in the playoffs was against a non-conference team in the round of 16. The Big South has *more teams* (3) with wins in the round of 16 against OOC opponents than the Socon (1). Does that mean that the Big South is a better playoff team? No. It just means they are more likely to not play conference opponents in the round of 16 because they're usually a one bid league. Same for the Patriot league. It's telling that the team in the socon that has accomplished that is Chattanooga, who is more of a geographic outlier in the socon and thus plays more diverse teams.

Bottom line: this criteria isn't useful and embodies moving the goal post to exclude the success of teams like Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel.

Have you had success if you can't regularly beat a non-conference team in the round of 16?

[Reign of Terrier]

Have you had success if you can't regularly beat a non-conference team in the round of 16?

Not when you're not scheduled to play them. You're moving the goal posts. The correlation between a good conference/team and that specific measurement is spurious.

Do you think the Big South is a more consistent playoff conference than the Socon?
Do you think Colgate is more consistent in the playoffs than any Socon team?
What about Jacksonville State?
Weber State?

You can't regularly beat them if you don't regularly play them.

Your measure isn't about quality, it's about geography.

[MSUBobcat]

Well that's a high and specific criteria. To fulfill it, the Socon has to either beat a seeded team that isn't in their conference or be a seeded team themselves. Beating a seeded team is usually hard when you're not a seeded team, and having it OOC makes it harder because of regionalization. Socon has won lots of OOC playoff games in the last few years. This includes those from the Big Sky, Big South, MVFC, CAA, and Patriot League.

Look, if your leading criteria for a good team is how far they reach in the playoffs (semis, finals, etc), I'll admit the Socon won't pass that test. The problem with single elimination tournaments is that they are great at determining who the best team is but not who the second best (or third best or fourth best...etc) team is. Here's a random assortment of teams that have beaten a nonconference team in the round of 16 since 2014:

New Hampshire
Chattanooga
Coastal Carolina
Sam Houston State
Villanova
Charleston Southern
Jacksonville State
Colgate
Weber State
Kennesaw State
NDSU
UNI
SDSU
EWU
Youngstown State

This measure is kind of arbitrary and I don't see why you would value it. It says more about the matchups teams get than the quality of the teams/programs/conferences. Charleston Southern's only win in the playoffs was against a non-conference team in the round of 16. The Big South has *more teams* (3) with wins in the round of 16 against OOC opponents than the Socon (1). Does that mean that the Big South is a better playoff team? No. It just means they are more likely to not play conference opponents in the round of 16 because they're usually a one bid league. Same for the Patriot league. It's telling that the team in the socon that has accomplished that is Chattanooga, who is more of a geographic outlier in the socon and thus plays more diverse teams.

Bottom line: this criteria isn't useful and embodies moving the goal post to exclude the success of teams like Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel.

No snark: What successes? Wofford has missed the playoffs in '13, '14 and '15, went 2-1 in '16 and 1-1 in '17, losing in the quarterfinals both years. They also MADE the quarterfinals by beating El Cid and Furman, respectively. Furman made the playoffs in '13 and '17 and went 1-1 both years and lost in the 2nd round. Citadel went 1-1 in '15 and 0-1 in '16, losing in round 2 both years including hosting after a bye week in '16. Of the 3, Wofford has the most "success" with the 3 yr run they are on, going 3-2 and making the quarters, though both years was by beating other SoCon teams in the 2nd round. Furman has gone 2-2. El Cid has went 1-2. The only time they've made it past round 2 was when it was 2 SoCon teams playing each other. In the last 5 seasons, those teams have won first round games and only won a 2nd round game when it was 2 SoCon teams, thus impossible for one to NOT advance. MSU didn't even do THAT good, but if they had, I wouldn't be here touting them as successes either.

[FUBeAR]

losing to San Diego...with the 2 losses to USD...In 2017, both the BSC and the SoCon went 1-2 against nonconference opponents and lost in the quarterfinals. Edge - neither....the results of the past 2 playoffs actually slightly...
So we agree, Big Lie & SoCon are about the same, except Big Lie Teams lose to non-Scholarship PFL Teams at Home in the 1st round of the Playoffs.

To be fair though....Below is a list of all the times a SoCon Team has lost to a non-Scholarship PFL Team in the Playoffs and below that list is a list of all the times that a SoCon Team has EVER lost to a non-Scholarship PFL Team (as far back as FUBeAR can remember)





















.


So...what in the heck warrants the Big Lie having 3 seeded Teams in 2018??.

UCD’s FBS win over 1-10 San Jose State which is lower-rated than Playoff-pretender UIW? C’mon...

[Reign of Terrier]

No snark: What successes? Wofford has missed the playoffs in '13, '14 and '15, went 2-1 in '16 and 1-1 in '17, losing in the quarterfinals both years. They also MADE the quarterfinals by beating El Cid and Furman, respectively. Furman made the playoffs in '13 and '17 and went 1-1 both years and lost in the 2nd round. Citadel went 1-1 in '15 and 0-1 in '16, losing in round 2 both years including hosting after a bye week in '16. Of the 3, Wofford has the most "success" with the 3 yr run they are on, going 3-2 and making the quarters, though both years was by beating other SoCon teams in the 2nd round. Furman has gone 2-2. El Cid has went 1-2. The only time they've made it past round 2 was when it was 2 SoCon teams playing each other. In the last 5 seasons, those teams have won first round games and only won a 2nd round game when it was 2 SoCon teams, thus impossible for one to NOT advance. MSU didn't even do THAT good, but if they had, I wouldn't be here touting them as successes either.

Playoff success and defining it isn't just about how many wins you rack up, but who they are against. Wofford and the SC socon teams have been screwed by geography in the last couple years. We have the wins and the variety of teams with a win, but because of geography the wins are less than they could be and have limited the amount of teams we could possibly beat.

Historically, Wofford has beaten 4 teams from OOC in the round of 16 (we are 4-2 with no bad showing in the round of 16). We just haven't played an OOC in the round of 16 since 2012 (New Hampshire, who we pummeled). The Citadel hasn't played one playoff game outside of SC in the 25 years, and not a single round of 16 game outside of the Charleston area. In the last 6 years or so, Furman has won their first round game and then got sent to Fargo and Wofford. Chattanooga has regularly won OOC games in the playoffs against the MVFC, Big Sky, and Patriot League. Samford lays an egg, but we all know that!

I "tote" Wofford's success (I disagree with that characterization) because we're legitimately a top 15 FCS program. We are in the top 16 current teams in terms of playoff success, with our first appearance coming in 2003, later than anyone ahead of us except NDSU and many teams behind us. We're pedantically splitting hairs about really good teams on this board (which is good! I love the conversation), but at least we have the wins. I can understand being critical of Wofford for not having too many OOC wins over the last few years, but it's not our fault we get put in the same bracket as a Socon team, Big South team or NDSU. And yeah, we've lost to some MVFC teams, but those games were all competitive.

Anyway, it's a valid criticism that Wofford's lost close games to MVFC teams and got blown out by NDSU last year. It's not a valid criticism to say we haven't done anything in the playoffs, because we've done more than most teams and we've done pretty much as much as you'd expect from a top 10 team.

It's not our fault that our conference is strong enough and close enough together that we get matched up with rematches in the round of 16.

[MSUBobcat]

So we agree, Big Lie & SoCon are about the same, except Big Lie Teams lose to non-Scholarship PFL Teams at Home in the 1st round of the Playoffs.

So...what in the heck warrants the Big Lie having 3 seeded Teams in 2018??.



Apparently the committee felt the Big Sky conference having 3 seeds was more warranted than Furman even making the playoffs......xcoffeex

As much as I love drinking the tears of the butthurt crybabies, I need to get payroll processed for my company so I can try to cut out of here early. Happy holidays! xdrunkyx

[Redbird 4th & short]

Save your outrage for scumbag u then, not uni.

100% agreed, there are at least 4 teams in these playoffs that would not even be in bubble discussion if they played in MVFC .. yet they are in playoffs. Zero question ... MVFC deserved 4 teams and only got 3.

Don't agree with auto-bids getting in from every conference. This is D-I FCS college football ... there are only 24 playoff spots out of 100+ playoff eligible teams. I say pick the best 24 teams ... look at emergence of Kennesaw, Colgate, and San Diego is recent years from weak conferences ... just dominate weak teams consistently, schedule some tough OOC games .. you should have to earn your way into a 24 team field. It's not like basketball with 68 teams (roughly half at large and half autobid - it is just not likely that a top 25 or even a top 50 team will get screwed out of a bid with 68 teams. In FCS system with 24 bids and 10 auto, top 20 teams can get left home. It's playoffs ... it's about rewarding the best teams with a shot post season. Players, coaches, and even fans deserve a fair shot. Pick the best 24.

But the chicken is right .. this year, there is truly only 1 weak autobid. In past years, very good teams had to stay home due to 3 to 4 weak autobids and the usual 2 to 3 weak at large bids.

[Reign of Terrier]

The more I look at Kennesaw's opponents and actually dissect how bad they were, the less I feel like they deserved a seed.

[uni88]

I'm outraged that this thread has more traction than the Lamar v. UNI thread.

[FUBeAR]

Apparently the committee felt the Big Sky conference having 3 seeds was warranted...

I need to get payroll processed for my company so I can try to cut out of here early. Happy holidays! xdrunkyx
So...you’re the guy responsible for cutting those checks to the Members of the Playoff Selection Committee on behalf of the Big Lie Conference. Well, they certainly earned ‘em this year. Do you handle the payments from the Southland Conference as well?

[MSUBobcat]

Playoff success and defining it isn't just about how many wins you rack up, but who they are against. Wofford and the SC socon teams have been screwed by geography in the last couple years. We have the wins and the variety of teams with a win, but because of geography the wins are less than they could be and have limited the amount of teams we could possibly beat.

Historically, Wofford has beaten 4 teams from OOC in the round of 16 (we are 4-2 with no bad showing in the round of 16). We just haven't played an OOC in the round of 16 since 2012 (New Hampshire, who we pummeled). The Citadel hasn't played one playoff game outside of SC in the 25 years, and not a single round of 16 game outside of the Charleston area. In the last 6 years or so, Furman has won their first round game and then got sent to Fargo and Wofford. Chattanooga has regularly won OOC games in the playoffs against the MVFC, Big Sky, and Patriot League. Samford lays an egg, but we all know that!

I "tote" Wofford's success (I disagree with that characterization) because we're legitimately a top 15 FCS program. We are in the top 16 current teams in terms of playoff success, with our first appearance coming in 2003, later than anyone ahead of us except NDSU and many teams behind us. We're pedantically splitting hairs about really good teams on this board (which is good! I love the conversation), but at least we have the wins. I can understand being critical of Wofford for not having too many OOC wins over the last few years, but it's not our fault we get put in the same bracket as a Socon team, Big South team or NDSU. And yeah, we've lost to some MVFC teams, but those games were all competitive.

Anyway, it's a valid criticism that Wofford's lost close games to MVFC teams and got blown out by NDSU last year. It's not a valid criticism to say we haven't done anything in the playoffs, because we've done more than most teams and we've done pretty much as much as you'd expect from a top 10 team.

It's not our fault that our conference is strong enough and close enough together that we get matched up with rematches in the round of 16.

For being so wordy in your posts, I'm a bit surprised you don't know when to use "tout" vs. "tote". But I digress.

Again, the disagreement is about this supposed "strength". The ONLY 2nd round wins in the last 5 years were by default (2 SoSoCon teams playing each other). PERHAPS Wofford ('16 & '17), Furman ('17) and El Cid ('16) could have won a 2nd round game had they not been paired together, but it's all speculation. What we know for sure is that the team that did move on to the quarters was stopped there. I don't see how that shows strength of conference. xtwocentsx

[MSUBobcat]

So...you’re the guy responsible for cutting those checks to the Members of the Playoff Selection Committee on behalf of the Big Lie Conference. Well, they certainly earned ‘em this year. Do you handle the payments from the Southland Conference as well?

You still cryin'? It's Thanksgiving, bud. Buck up.

[Reign of Terrier]

For being so wordy in your posts, I'm a bit surprised you don't know when to use "tout" vs. "tote". But I digress.

Again, the disagreement is about this supposed "strength". The ONLY 2nd round wins in the last 5 years were by default (2 SoSoCon teams playing each other). PERHAPS Wofford ('16 & '17), Furman ('17) and El Cid ('16) could have won a 2nd round game had they not been paired together, but it's all speculation. What we know for sure is that the team that did move on to the quarters was stopped there. I don't see how that shows strength of conference. xtwocentsx

And I would agree, however the teams that made it to the quarterfinals were matched up with NDSU and Youngstown the one year they went on a run.

Succinctly, at worst you can say that we don't know how good the socon is in the playoffs. I agree with that statement. But you can't say we're bad, especially relative to other conferences. Wofford is 6-2 in the round of 16 (losses to the #1 seed in 2008 and the infamous "no kneel" game at UNI in 2011) and 4-2. Furman has probably won more games.

[MSUBobcat]

And I would agree, however the teams that made it to the quarterfinals were matched up with NDSU and Youngstown the one year they went on a run.

Succinctly, at worst you can say that we don't know how good the socon is in the playoffs. I agree with that statement. But you can't say we're bad, especially relative to other conferences. Wofford is 6-2 in the round of 16 (losses to the #1 seed in 2008 and the infamous "no kneel" game at UNI in 2011) and 4-2. Furman has probably won more games.

As usual, you are a reasonable poster. I don't believe the SoCon is a BAD conference in any way, shape, or form. I wouldn't call it a really good one either. I acknowledge that the teams that bounced Wofford were really good, so the losses weren't anything to hang your head over. Wofford seems to be top dog in the SoCon of late and they have a potential game against a team that many seem to question to quality of, so both will have an opportunity to prove themselves on the field (assuming a Wofford win over Elon of course). I think that will be a fun game to watch and wish the Terriers luck (I get bitter over new FCS teams having success right away; I'm petty like that :D)

[Reign of Terrier]

As usual, you are a reasonable poster. I don't believe the SoCon is a BAD conference in any way, shape, or form. I wouldn't call it a really good one either. I acknowledge that the teams that bounced Wofford were really good, so the losses weren't anything to hang your head over. Wofford seems to be top dog in the SoCon of late and they have a potential game against a team that many seem to question to quality of, so both will have an opportunity to prove themselves on the field (assuming a Wofford win over Elon of course). I think that will be a fun game to watch and wish the Terriers luck (I get bitter over new FCS teams having success right away; I'm petty like that :D)

Good stuff. I just have to fend off the Socon from criticism that I don't think is fair and yours wasn't one of themxthumbsupx

[MSUBobcat]

Good stuff. I just have to fend off the Socon from criticism that I don't think is fair and yours wasn't one of themxthumbsupx

No sir. I think the top teams of the SoCon and Big Sky are pretty equal and would have some pretty good games, if we were to ever see them. My issue is with couple whiny Furman posters. Which is truly odd, because I agree that Furman should be in over Lamar and UIW and I don't think ANY conference should ever get 3 seeds out of 8 possible. So I agree with their argument in principle, but disagree with A) their tact and B) how it's the BSC's fault. Hence why I'm a bit..... ruder to a couple posters than the rest of AGS.

[HAL_9000]

100% agreed ... with one correction .. both Southland teams were 6-4 against D-I.

As for UNI, I posted earlier in this thread .. UNI at 6-5 played #1 SOS in FCS per Massey.

And yes, the swing in attitude with Southland is "shocking" and "suspicious" .. in 2017, McNeese at 8-2 (D-I) against 86th ranked SOS wasn't good enough. But this year, same conference, with UCA and SHSU fading to mediocrity, suddenly Lamar at 6-4 against 71st ranked SOS is good enough ... why .. how ? And IW is also 6-4 against 39th ranked SOS, and no wins against playoff teams .. in fact lost to Lamar, who shouldn't be in playoff.

Somebody complained very loudly and successfully on Southland's behalf . They have a really down year from a year ago, and get more teams this year ?? Somebody got to somebody. What did Southland do exactly to improve their standing this year over last year ?? Nothing, they did worse and got more teams.

Then there is ETSU at 7-3 against against 68th ranked SOS .. only 1 game against a playoff team (8-3 Wofford) which they lost by 13. They got destroyed by #40 Tennessee (5-6) by 56. For comparison, UNI lost to #24 Iowa (7-4) by 24. And despite playing 68th ranked SOS, they only put away 1 team all year. They barely beat 4 weak teams .. 1-10 VMI by 3, 3-8 WCU by 2, 5-6 Mercer by 3, 4-6 Citadel by 3, then 6-5 Chattanooga by 3. They only managed to put away 1 team all year .. Gardner Webb by 45. How is this a "playoff resume" ?

So UNI's 6-5 against #1 SOS compares very favorably to those 3 teams for starters. .. I think difference in SOS is worth much more than 1 loss.

And I would have taken ISUb at 6-4 against 24th ranked SOS over all 3 of those teams. And then 6-4 Furman would also have made much more sense than Lamar ... and been right in thick of bubble with ETS and IW. I know they lost at ETSU, but one game does not decide a playoff team. Furman did better than ETSU against rest of field.

Great post! well said.