Wake up, Council of Ivy Group Presidents

[Go...gate]

It is a damn shame that Princeton and Dartmouth will not get the opportunity to participate in the FCS Playoffs.

Both teams are extremely strong and, IMO, would be very tough competitors.

[BisonFan02]

It is a damn shame that Princeton and Dartmouth will not get the opportunity to participate in the FCS Playoffs.

Both teams are extremely strong and, IMO, would be very tough competitors.

But then Harvard/Yale wouldn't end the year.

[Laker]

There is no reason why the Ivy should not participate in the FCS playoffs. None at all. They are involved in the other NCAA playoffs so this is totally unfair to the football players. They have no defense at all for not allowing it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Absolutely! I'd love to see Princeton and Dartmouth get in this year. Both would have legit chances to make it to Frisco with the proper route!

[CHIP72]

While we're at it, we should also get on the Ivy League powers that be for not allowing Ivy League football teams to play more than 10 regular season games. I can understand not wanting to play a 12 game schedule, but the teams should be allowed to play at least 11 regular season games.

Getting back to the playoff argument, the Ivy League presidents' argument against playoff participation is so bogus. Players on football teams probably would have their class schedules LESS disrupted by playoff participation (and football participation in general) because unlike most sports the players only play once per week and almost always play on a non-school day/day when no classes are held.

[POD Knows]

Absolutely! I'd love to see Princeton and Dartmouth get in this year. Both would have legit chances to make it to Frisco with the proper route!
No they wouldn't, but you can always dream I suppose.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

No they wouldn't, but you can always dream I suppose.

They would. Great talent, coaching and depth out the ass because of huge roster sizes. These teams are the real deal.

[POD Knows]

They would. Great talent, coaching and depth out the ass because of huge roster sizes. These teams are the real deal.Pretty easy to make a bold statement like yours when there is no way to prove it. Not buying it.

[Professor Chaos]

While we're at it, we should also get on the Ivy League powers that be for not allowing Ivy League football teams to play more than 10 regular season games. I can understand not wanting to play a 12 game schedule, but the teams should be allowed to play at least 11 regular season games.

Getting back to the playoff argument, the Ivy League presidents' argument against playoff participation is so bogus. Players on football teams probably would have their class schedules LESS disrupted by playoff participation (and football participation in general) because unlike most sports the players only play once per week and almost always play on a non-school day/day when no classes are held.
This exactly!

IMO this is done because the Ivy League brass thinks they are in a different league than the rest of us plebes in the FCS due to their academic name recognition. Think I'm full of ****? Prove me wrong.

I would absolutely love to see Princeton (and Dartmouth) in the FCS playoffs this year given the **** they're going to have so scrape off the bottom of the barrel to set the 24 team field. Beyond that to deprive the student-athletes on those football teams the opportunity to compete in the postseason that student-athletes in every other sport that the Ivy League sponsors get is a traveshamockery!

[MTfan4life]

If players at elite academic schools like Johns Hopkins and MIT can manage just fine with postseason football, why is it that the likes of Princeton, Harvard, and the rest of the Ivy League can't?

[JayJ79]

Pretty easy to make a bold statement like yours when there is no way to prove it. Not buying it.
I suspect that the I.L. specifically avoids scheduling games against the power teams of the FCS just so that they can keep pretending like this.

[POD Knows]

I suspect that the I.L. specifically avoids scheduling games against the power teams of the FCS just so that they can keep pretending like this.
Yep, it is what it is.

[DFW HOYA]

If players at elite academic schools like Johns Hopkins and MIT can manage just fine with postseason football, why is it that the likes of Princeton, Harvard, and the rest of the Ivy League can't?

This is why.

https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=600/mh=800/cr=n/d=5w54w/konqr61tkqesxrse.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I suspect that the I.L. specifically avoids scheduling games against the power teams of the FCS just so that they can keep pretending like this.

That's a narrative that is not true! I'm not saying everyone is scheduling elite teams left and right but they do step out. Yale finished in the middle of the pack and beat CAA Champ Maine by 3 TDs and SoCon Mercer. Cornell played Delaware and Top 10 Colgate. Brown and Harvard played 6-5 CAA URI. There's plenty of other examples going back. Dartmouth beat UNH and Towson in the same season recently.

[Professor Chaos]

That's a narrative that is not true! I'm not saying everyone is scheduling elite teams left and right but they do step out. Yale finished in the middle of the pack and beat CAA Champ Maine by 3 TDs and SoCon Mercer. Cornell played Delaware and Top 10 Colgate. Brown and Harvard played 6-5 CAA URI. There's plenty of other examples going back. Dartmouth beat UNH and Towson in the same season recently.
Pretty much all your examples are CAA and Patriot League. Mercer... ok you got me there. Yale played Cal Poly a few years back... you got me there. Outside of that when has any Ivy League team ventured out of the northeast for OOC games?

That's not to say that they need to. With their current setup there's no reason to challenge yourself out of conference but I think their current setup is what frustrates most of us when we want to see how their best stack up against teams that aren't in the northeast.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile...

This is the number one reason why I've almost switched to ETSU, Stony Brook and Albany (alma maters of a few of my cousins). But my history of following the IL on AGS is so strong I couldn't really let it go...

Change.org petition coming? Or can you think of any other petition site appropriate?

[Go...gate]

I posted a similar comment on the Ivy VoyForums Board, which has so far elicited the following responses:

(1) "We have the Ivy and Big 3 crowns. The Lambert Cup is meaningless to either team who loses. Little comparable competition. May all three have joyful celebrations with ample drink and couldas/shouldas."

(2) "The only trophy that matters is currently in the Princeton locker room".

My goodness.

[bonarae]

I posted a similar comment on the Ivy VoyForums Board, which has so far elicited the following responses:

(1) "We have the Ivy and Big 3 crowns. The Lambert Cup is meaningless to either team who loses. Little comparable competition. May all three have joyful celebrations with ample drink and couldas/shouldas."

(2) "The only trophy that matters is currently in the Princeton locker room".

My goodness.

Their POV is vastly different from ours. xsmhx

[Sader87]

Good for them....the FCS playoffs are a joke....not worth the process.....

[Go...gate]

Their POV is vastly different from ours. xsmhx

Makes me a little sad. This is like the on-going debate some of us have about OOC games - why not test oneself against the best possible competition? Here, it is not about playing FBS teams but rather the best FCS teams!

- - - Updated - - -


Good for them....the FCS playoffs are a joke....not worth the process.....

Nonsense. If HC had "evah" won a playoff game, you might feel differently.

[Sader87]

FCS playoffs are hot garbage...one of the worst NCAA lies told to its membahs.....bowl game against the Ivies in Bermuda please

[Go...gate]

FCS playoffs are hot garbage...one of the worst NCAA lies told to its membahs.....bowl game against the Ivies in Bermuda please

On this one, let us agree to disagree.

[Sader87]

Absolutely no one cares.....a PL-IL bowl trumps the FCS playoffs every way to Sunday

[Go...gate]

Absolutely no one cares.....a PL-IL bowl trumps the FCS playoffs every way to Sunday

Wrong. No one in Worcester may care, but many of us do.

[grizband]

Wrong. No one in Worcester may care, but many of us do.
What do you mean? Worchester is everyone...xrotatehx

[caribbeanhen]

It is a damn shame that Princeton and Dartmouth will not get the opportunity to participate in the FCS Playoffs.

Both teams are extremely strong and, IMO, would be very tough competitors.

could not agree more, I caught a Princeton game early this season and it was a real eye opener, Dartmouth as well...... big shame, I think both are top 10 easy

[Ivytalk]

We have this same tired discussion two or three times a year, especially when one or two Ivies have really strong teams. It came up when Harvard and Penn were atop the IL also.The same ideas keep cropping up, and the same people (almost) chime in. Let me offer one clue: THE KEY IVY STAKEHOLDERS DON’T CARE. Not the players, not the coaches, not the athletic departments, not the administration, not the young alums. And the older alums — the ones who actually used to go to football games — are dying off with their Greatest Generation cohort. Most of the players pay lip service to playoffs or to 11-Game seasons, but they are not storming the battlements, occupying the dean’s office, or THREATENING TO WITHHOLD DONATIONS unless they get their way. They’ll bond with their team brothers, go to occasional team reunions, and toddle off to Wall Street with sheepskin in hand.

My advice? Stop yer handwringing and enjoy Selection Sunday. Take it from this old-ish Ivy alum: the only people who get lathered up about this topic are right on this board.

[Herder]

Good for them....the FCS playoffs are a joke....not worth the process.....

Says who? A non competitive team like HC, typical.

[CID1990]

FCS playoffs are hot garbage...one of the worst NCAA lies told to its membahs.....bowl game against the Ivies in Bermuda please

Yeah ESPN will be chomping at the bit

:dunce:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Good for them....the FCS playoffs are a joke....not worth the process.....


Pfft...keep waiting for your next Gordie Lockbaum to come along....xcoffeex

- - - Updated - - -


Says who? A non competitive team like HC, typical.

This here.

[woffordgrad94]

I don’t really know exactly how the Ivies would do in the playoffs, but they do deserve a chance, especially if you are going to put Pioneer League teams in there. I personally think they would have a chance to do pretty well some years, and this year is definitely one of them since the field is not going to be extremely strong overall. The academic excuse does not make sense as they let every other sport participate in its postseason. Princeton and Dartmouth are definitely more deserving than whomever turns out to be the final two at-large selections today.

[nickp]

Long overdue for Ivy League football to join the FCS Playoffs party

[Laker]

Their POV is vastly different from ours. xsmhx

People like them who suffer from rectal-cranial inversion generally do have a different view!

[BisonBacker]

They would. Great talent, coaching and depth out the ass because of huge roster sizes. These teams are the real deal.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29519&stc=1

[ccd494]

Says who? A non competitive team like HC, typical.

I agree with him and my school is going to the playoffs.

[BisonFan02]

This is why.

https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=600/mh=800/cr=n/d=5w54w/konqr61tkqesxrse.jpg

Already said that.

[BisonBacker]

I agree with him and my school is going to the playoffs.

https://www.facebook.com/ForAmerica/videos/270932390228786/UzpfSTUyODQyMDcxMzoxMDE2MTI0Njk5NTM2NTcxNA/
https://www.facebook.com/ForAmerica/videos/270932390228786/UzpfSTUyODQyMDcxMzoxMDE2MTI0Njk5NTM2NTcxNA/https://media.giphy.com/media/bLsOywHkX668U/giphy.gif

[woffordgrad94]

FCS playoffs are hot garbage...one of the worst NCAA lies told to its membahs.....bowl game against the Ivies in Bermuda please
I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But most everyone else disagrees with it. The playoffs are great. No one would go to neutral site FCS bowl games. Let’s see...the Tropical Breeze Bowl- Wofford vs. Weber State in Miami...it wouldn’t draw flies.

[Laker]

Any real competitor wants to compete, not just sit in their room.

[woffordgrad94]

https://www.facebook.com/ForAmerica/videos/270932390228786/UzpfSTUyODQyMDcxMzoxMDE2MTI0Njk5NTM2NTcxNA/
https://www.facebook.com/ForAmerica/videos/270932390228786/UzpfSTUyODQyMDcxMzoxMDE2MTI0Njk5NTM2NTcxNA/https://media.giphy.com/media/bLsOywHkX668U/giphy.gif
Now THAT brings back memories of my high school days!

[BisonBacker]

FCS playoffs are hot garbage...one of the worst NCAA lies told to its membahs.....bowl game against the Ivies in Bermuda please

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29520&stc=1

[woffordgrad94]

Absolutely no one cares.....a PL-IL bowl trumps the FCS playoffs every way to Sunday
Where would you play this bowl? It better be in the Northeast...then it might get 1000 people. I’m starting to think you’re trolling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3n0vBcW5fc

[JSUSoutherner]

Absolutely no one cares.....a PL-IL bowl trumps the FCS playoffs every way to Sunday
Oh, look, a fan of a school I forgot was D1 doesn't like the playoffs.

I'm shocked.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Pretty easy to make a bold statement like yours when there is no way to prove it. Not buying it.


......WHICH......IS EQUALLAH TRUE....TUH YER STATEMENT....."NO DEY WOODN'T"......BRAWK!

[PAllen]

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But most everyone else disagrees with it. The playoffs are great. No one would go to neutral site FCS bowl games. Let’s see...the Tropical Breeze Bowl- Wofford vs. Weber State in Miami...it wouldn’t draw flies.

To be fair, in the grand scheme of things, nobody goes to FCS playoff games either.

[JSUSoutherner]

......WHICH......IS EQUALLAH TRUE....TUH YER STATEMENT....."NO DEY WOODN'T"......BRAWK!
If they want respect they have to earn it. In the playoffs.

Until then, they can sit TF down.

[PAllen]

If they want respect they have to earn it. In the playoffs.

Until then, they can sit TF down.

You do realize that the Ivy League doesn't need, nor do they care about your respect, don't you?

[JSUSoutherner]

You do realize that the Ivy League doesn't need, nor do they care about your respect, don't you?
Then they have the right to remain completely irrelevant if that is their choice. But as soon as they start coming in with the UCF type "we went undefeated hurhur we're the best hurhur" garbage they will be welcomed to piss into the wind.

[BisonFan02]

I care about the Ivies just about as much as the MEAC and SWAC......at least the MEAC has an outside shot at getting at large bids. The Ivies play glorified intramurals....argue against playoffs because it's a financial loser to them using academics and time as strawmen....but dont take that March Madness money away. xlolx

[POD Knows]

I care about the Ivys just about as much as the MEAC and SWAC......at least the MEAC has an outside shot at getting at large bids. The Ivies play glorified intramurals....argue against playoffs because it's a financial loser to them using academics and time as strawmen....but dont take that March Madness money away. xlolxYep, they are whores wearing fancy ties. **** em.

[dbackjon]

The NCAA should make a rule that if you don't participate in EVERY post-season you are eligible for, NONE of your teams can participate in the Post-Season.

[semobison]

Why are the Ivies on the ballots in FCS polls? That should be the first step. If they don't want to join the party remove their teams from FCS ballots. FCS, Football Championship Subdivision! The championship is won on the field, in a tournament.
I voted for Princeton and Dartmouth only because they are on the ballots, and IMO probably shouldn't be. Removing them may sting a little and actually wake up the Ivy League administration.

[CHIP72]

Then they have the right to remain completely irrelevant if that is their choice. But as soon as they start coming in with the UCF type "we went undefeated hurhur we're the best hurhur" garbage they will be welcomed to piss into the wind.

You do realize there's a difference between Central Florida's/FBS' playoff situation and the Ivy League's/FCS' playoff situation, right?

[JSUSoutherner]

You do realize there's a difference between Central Florida's/FBS' playoff situation and the Ivy League's/FCS' playoff situation, right?
Yeah, the difference is the Ivies have an easier route to prove themselves than UCF. The Ivies are at the mercy of their own ego whereas UCF has a legit excuse.

[TheKingpin28]

Yeah, the difference is the Ivies have an easier route to prove themselves than UCF. The Ivies are at the mercy of their own ego whereas UCF has a legit excuse.

This and more of this

[MacThor]

The Ivies and UCF are almost the opposite situation. UCF is saying "we want to prove it on the field, but you won't invite us to your little exclusive party." The Ivies are saying "We're too exclusive to attend your big tent party and prove it on the field."

[Go...gate]

Any real competitor wants to compete, not just sit in their room.

You hit it on the head. Thank you.

[DFW HOYA]

The NCAA should make a rule that if you don't participate in EVERY post-season you are eligible for, NONE of your teams can participate in the Post-Season.

Why? The post-season is not the regular season and it's entirely at a school's discretion. Rest assured that if BYU was playing in the national semifinal and it fell on a Sunday, they'd decline.

But this issue is not at a coach's or school's discretion--it's the conference.

[Go...gate]

Bob Surace, Princeton's Head Coach, provided his thoughts:

https://www.trentonian.com/sports/kyle-franko-princeton-football-won-t-get-to-play-for/article_dec3953e-eacd-11e8-bda4-0fb7df11d9e5.html

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bob Surace, Princeton's Head Coach, provided his thoughts:

https://www.trentonian.com/sports/kyle-franko-princeton-football-won-t-get-to-play-for/article_dec3953e-eacd-11e8-bda4-0fb7df11d9e5.html

That's an awesome read!! Surace held NOTHING back!

Favorite quote

"Robin Harris and the administration have done a great job, but if you don't get football in the playoffs, it's a black mark on her legacy," Surace said. "Yale should have went last year, we should have went the year before, they would have figured out the three-way tie or maybe multiple teams would have went.

[BisonFan02]

That's an awesome read!! Surace held NOTHING back!

Favorite quote

They clearly don't wanna compete.

[Son of Eli]

They clearly don't wanna compete.


Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

[BisonFan02]

Not true. The prblem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

I was being sarcastic towards our favorite Holy Cross fan here.

[JSUSoutherner]

Not true. The prblem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

"What playing Alabama would do to their mental health"

What a joke.

[EdubAlum]

Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

Well here is the thing. Nobody wants to be destroyed by Alabama, but if you're an Ivy League school, you REALLY don't want to get destroyed by Directional State University.

[Go...gate]

Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)

“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

Ouch. Stupid is as stupid does.

[DFW HOYA]

“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

With logic like that, she probably also believes that forest fires can be prevented with frequent raking.

[TheKingpin28]

Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

I want to take a shot at this, but it's not for this board. xsmhx

[Bisonoline]

Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”

She may be highly educated but shes not very smart.

[Go Green]

Best I can tell, only one Ivy president has ever come out and said "let's let football go to the playoffs" -- former Dartmouth President (and current World Bank President) Kim.

Current Dartmouth President Hanlon hasn't said such, but I'm guessing he'd be fine with playoffs.

The outspoken opponents of playoff participation have since retired from their presidencies. Their replacements haven't said much on the topic. Possible they are all just as clueless as Cornell's Pollack.

If so, then perhaps some education may yield some progress.

[Son of Eli]

Best I can tell, only one Ivy president has ever come out and said "let's let football go to the playoffs" -- former Dartmouth President (and current World Bank President) Kim.

Current Dartmouth President Hanlon hasn't said such, but I'm guessing he'd be fine with playoffs.

The outspoken opponents of playoff participation have since retired from their presidencies. Their replacements haven't said much on the topic. Possible they are all just as clueless as Cornell's Pollack.

If so, then perhaps some education may yield some progress.

I agree that things have changed a lot since Robin Harris became commissioner, partly due to her excellent stewardship. The Ivy League is competing at a much higher level on the field while other sport’s post season rules, such as basketball, have been liberalized. And as you said we also have a new council of presidents. However, I’m afraid Robin Harris hasn’t yet realized there is an opportunity to revisit this issue.

Hopefully Surace’s strong comments will wake her up. As you pointed out on the Voy Board Harvard, Yale and Princeton drive the boat. If Surace convinces Princeton’s president there is a good chance of a change I believe Yale’s president would at least be open minded to the discussion, if not leaning in favor of it.

[cx500d]

Well here is the thing. Nobody wants to be destroyed by Alabama, but if you're an Ivy League school, you REALLY don't want to get destroyed by Directional State University.

Citadel has no problem with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Professor]

I guess you are entitled to your opinion. But most everyone else disagrees with it. The playoffs are great. No one would go to neutral site FCS bowl games. Let’s see...the Tropical Breeze Bowl- Wofford vs. Weber State in Miami...it wouldn’t draw flies.

The Celebration Bowl proves you wrong and has better TV ratings than any FCS playoff game. Championship included

[woffordgrad94]

Not sure if that is a good comparison professor. The HBCUs typically get better attendance than a lot of the other FCS programs and they have dabbled in bowls a while. The Heritage Bowl existed before the Celebration did. Schools like Wofford do not have the same national name recognition or appeal and bowls wouldn’t work as well for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bisonator]

**** em!

I wouldn't bother ranking them in polls. They mean nothing to me. Same with the MEAC and SWAC. They want to do their own thing so be it.

[Bisonator]

Not true. The problem is inertia fueled by ignorance of the issue. Martha Pollack, President of Cornell, actually thinks FCS playoff participation would mean Cornell would possibly play Alabama. Here is the quote from the Cornell Daily Sun:

”As the interview drew to a close, The Sun brought up how the Ivy League is the only Football Championship Subdivision Division I conference in which there is no postseason play and whose champion must decline its automatic bid into the NCAA playoffs. The feeling among Ivy league head coaches like Cornell’s David Archer ’05 is that the annual push from the coaches to permit the champion to accept the bid is “dead on arrival” when it reaches the presidents’ desks.Pollack said that she has never been presented with the proposition, but she was worried that it would mean Cornell would have to play against No.1 ranked Alabama. (A hypothetical change would have the Ivy champion competing with the FCS’ best, the likes of North Dakota State. Alabama, who competes in the Southeastern Conference, is the current No. 1 ranked team in the Football Bowl Subdivision.)
“I watch our Cornell team, and I think they’re great fun to watch, but then I think of Alabama and I’m worried what playing them will mean for our players’ mental health,” she quipped.”
These people are supposed to be the brightest minds in education? Yikes!xlolx

[dbackjon]

Why? The post-season is not the regular season and it's entirely at a school's discretion. Rest assured that if BYU was playing in the national semifinal and it fell on a Sunday, they'd decline.

But this issue is not at a coach's or school's discretion--it's the conference.


Fairness to the student-athlete. Either you are opposed to ALL Post-season, or none. Ivy's stance on picking and choosing what post-seasons to compete in is hypocritical.

[Laker]

Fairness to the student-athlete. Either you are opposed to ALL Post-season, or none. Ivy's stance on picking and choosing what post-seasons to compete in is hypocritical.

Exactly. How can you justify having allowing all the other sports except football compete in the post season?

[SUPharmacist]

These discussions of the Ivy League always amuse me. They can choose to do whatever they want. I get the irritation some feel when they are ranked highly or at the claims of how well they will do in the playoffs. However, normally most of the individuals on this board who argue about how well they would do or who they should be ranked over are not IL posters. Generally I see a lot of IL posters stating how they would like to participate in the playoffs, or that so and so is a great team and I would love to give them the chance to prove themselves.

To some of our Patriot League fans who see the need to carry the jock straps for the Ivies, what gives? Your league participates in the playoffs and has had the occasional great run. I am looking forward to seeing how Colgate does this year. If you think the Ivies are so wonderful and want to be like them and only be able to debate how well your teams would do, then lobby your Presidents to leave the playoffs. Although, I do not think any IL-PL bowl games will be forthcoming.

The Ivies, like the HBCU's, have chosen what works for them. If they are happy and it makes sense to the schools, players, fans and donors, great. If not, then those same groups need to change it. Hearing complaints from me or anyone else outside of their bubble will not and should not carry any weight.

As for those posters from any fanbase claiming their team or any team who makes a choice not to participate in the playoffs is better than or deserves a higher ranking than a team that does participate, I have a little story. I had a friend in high school whom discussions with would seem to indicate a great level of intelligence. He would insist how smart he was and how below him school was and choose not to show up or complete course work. Eventually he realized he would not graduate if he didn't put in a bare minimum of effort and just showing up. This drove him nuts, and made him insist even more how intelligent he was. Of course no one believed him since he had no proof that he could complete anything. After hearing his schtick one too many times, I told him what I will now tell you, "**** you moron."

[ccd494]

To some of our Patriot League fans who see the need to carry the jock straps for the Ivies, what gives? Your league participates in the playoffs and has had the occasional great run. I am looking forward to seeing how Colgate does this year. If you think the Ivies are so wonderful and want to be like them and only be able to debate how well your teams would do, then lobby your Presidents to leave the playoffs. Although, I do not think any IL-PL bowl games will be forthcoming.

I'm not a Patriot League fan, but I guess I carry some water for the "better off without playoffs" argument. I don't see how playoffs make things better, be it in the FCS, or FBS, or professional sports. I'll use this year's FBS season as an example. Everyone is laser focused on the four teams who will make the playoffs, and the stasis at the top, and have declared this a "bad" season. There are 3 power schools who are undefeated! UCF hasn't lost in what, a decade? Michigan and Ohio State are playing a de facto Big Ten title game this weekend. Everyone is so focused on Clemson-Alabama-Notre Dame-Michigan that zero attention gets paid elsewhere. Kentucky and Army are ranked teams! A really fun Washington State team could win the Pac-12! Oklahoma might win the Big XII despite not getting a stop since August!

Those things are all really fun, but they are getting dwarfed in a "Alabama vs. Clemson is inevitable, this sucks" sense of malaise. And for what purpose? A multi-billion dollar corporate event that feels sterile and antiseptic to crown one true champion? College football is fun because of the atmosphere and the pageantry. The NFL is boring because it feels like an overproduced made for TV spectacle. I like going to college games because of the energy and the wackiness you may see, and the pure visceral reactions to playing rivalry games. Why are we trying to make it the NFL? Why not embrace the weirdness of possibly ending the season with multiple undefeated teams? Why do we need to take the delightful chaos and unnecessarily create artificial order?

The FCS is the same way. I'd be thrilled to end the season and call Maine the CAA champ and send them to a bowl against the champ of the SoCon or MVFC or Big Sky. We don't need 50 bowl games at the FCS level, just grab the conference champs, let them get a trip somewhere warm, have one more week of fun, and call it good. Fun, relaxing and warm > NCAA rigidity and cold weather.

[Professor]

I'm not a Patriot League fan, but I guess I carry some water for the "better off without playoffs" argument. I don't see how playoffs make things better, be it in the FCS, or FBS, or professional sports. I'll use this year's FBS season as an example. Everyone is laser focused on the four teams who will make the playoffs, and the stasis at the top, and have declared this a "bad" season. There are 3 power schools who are undefeated! UCF hasn't lost in what, a decade? Michigan and Ohio State are playing a de facto Big Ten title game this weekend. Everyone is so focused on Clemson-Alabama-Notre Dame-Michigan that zero attention gets paid elsewhere. Kentucky and Army are ranked teams! A really fun Washington State team could win the Pac-12! Oklahoma might win the Big XII despite not getting a stop since August!

Those things are all really fun, but they are getting dwarfed in a "Alabama vs. Clemson is inevitable, this sucks" sense of malaise. And for what purpose? A multi-billion dollar corporate event that feels sterile and antiseptic to crown one true champion? College football is fun because of the atmosphere and the pageantry. The NFL is boring because it feels like an overproduced made for TV spectacle. I like going to college games because of the energy and the wackiness you may see, and the pure visceral reactions to playing rivalry games. Why are we trying to make it the NFL? Why not embrace the weirdness of possibly ending the season with multiple undefeated teams? Why do we need to take the delightful chaos and unnecessarily create artificial order?

The FCS is the same way. I'd be thrilled to end the season and call Maine the CAA champ and send them to a bowl against the champ of the SoCon or MVFC or Big Sky. We don't need 50 bowl games at the FCS level, just grab the conference champs, let them get a trip somewhere warm, have one more week of fun, and call it good. Fun, relaxing and warm > NCAA rigidity and cold weather.

But what difference is there between the domination of Alabama on the FBS level and NDSU on the FCS level. Everyone knows NDSU is going to be there.

[bulldog10jw]

[QUOTE"Robin Harris and the administration have done a great job, but if you don't get football in the playoffs, it's a black mark on her legacy," Surace said. "Yale should have went last year, we should have went the year before, they would have figured out the three-way tie or maybe multiple teams would have went. ]

Grammar police alert.

Should have gone?

[ccd494]

But what difference is there between the domination of Alabama on the FBS level and NDSU on the FCS level. Everyone knows NDSU is going to be there.

That's part of my point. Focusing on just who makes it to the championship game just creates an artificial feeling of inevitability that makes the whole season less fun. If the playoffs/championship game/champion itself are just a death march to a result that was preordained, it will make the whole season seem bad. My team went 7-1 and won its conference! That should be nothing but an unequivocally awesome season. Wrap a bow on it, call it great, start planning Thanksgiving dinner.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

These discussions of the Ivy League always amuse me. They can choose to do whatever they want. I get the irritation some feel when they are ranked highly or at the claims of how well they will do in the playoffs. However, normally most of the individuals on this board who argue about how well they would do or who they should be ranked over are not IL posters. Generally I see a lot of IL posters stating how they would like to participate in the playoffs, or that so and so is a great team and I would love to give them the chance to prove themselves.

To some of our Patriot League fans who see the need to carry the jock straps for the Ivies, what gives? Your league participates in the playoffs and has had the occasional great run. I am looking forward to seeing how Colgate does this year. If you think the Ivies are so wonderful and want to be like them and only be able to debate how well your teams would do, then lobby your Presidents to leave the playoffs. Although, I do not think any IL-PL bowl games will be forthcoming.

The Ivies, like the HBCU's, have chosen what works for them. If they are happy and it makes sense to the schools, players, fans and donors, great. If not, then those same groups need to change it. Hearing complaints from me or anyone else outside of their bubble will not and should not carry any weight.

The reason why Patriot League schools "carry the jock straps of the Ivies" is the same reason why, say, a fan of a SWAC team might pipe up when someone says NCAT shouldn't be listed in the Top 25. Patriot League and Ivy League schools frequently play each other out-of-conference and in many ways consider themselves peer schools. This takes on even more critical importance now that the FCS Playoff subcommittee appears to be inventing rules on the fly that wins over non-autobid conferences somehow are not considered or are of lesser consideration that those over autobid conferences, which is an utterly bat**** rule. (A loss to 10-0 Princeton, one of the best FCS teams in a generation, isn't considered, but a win over Butler is?)

I think most fans of Patriot League schools would be fine with the Ivy League joining the playoffs, but for us it is more of a factor of decades of having to carry their water for them because they refuse to represent themselves within the subdivision of FCS generally. You can see the attitude here by people, not putting them in their T25 ballots, and to a degree I understand. When is an NDSU fan going to have time to study Princeton's 10-0 team, when there is no way they will be playing them?

This puts Patriot League schools in an awkward position of having to constantly convince the FCS world at large that Dartmouth is a great team and would definitely give Maine a good game at worst (and I think they would beat them). It's like today's polarized environment in politics: I know Dartmouth is one of the top teams in the nation (I have Princeton at No. 2 behind NDSU, and I have Dartmouth in my Top 10), because I've seen both teams actually play, but many do not, and are convinced they suck without trying to encounter any evidence to change their minds.

The Ivies' football path has been fundamentally hypocritical over a generation, and has only become more hypocritical over time. Additionally, the Ivy League does itself no favors and doesn't really try to ingratiate themselves within the rest of the FCS community, something that is infuriating for the Patriot League, because the Patriot League does and lives in the world of the subdivision in which they compete. In some ways they do straddle both "leagues", but when push comes to shove, they are FCS schools. I think the history of the league shows that.

To the Patriot League, the calculus is interesting: The Ivies are tough, but if the games are essentially not going to count (which the FCS subcommittee appears to be saying), and the Patriot League are going to have to spend half the season trying to convince the rest of FCS that the games are hard, is it worth all the trouble, just to preserve some long-term rivalries? There isn't an easy answer. Lehigh has played Princeton for over 100 years, and abandoning that isn't something undertaken lightly. But if Lehigh gets a home-and-home with Delaware and beats them every once in a while, that will mean a hell of a lot more to their FCS standing than any win over Columbia, no matter how good they actually are.

If the Ivies actually did their job and made even a half-assed attempt to present themselves as a part of FCS, it would make the Patriot League's life easier, because voters in North Dakota would know Princeton has a good team. Participating in the playoffs is one part of that, but it's actually so much more.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That's part of my point. Focusing on just who makes it to the championship game just creates an artificial feeling of inevitability that makes the whole season less fun. If the playoffs/championship game/champion itself are just a death march to a result that was preordained, it will make the whole season seem bad. My team went 7-1 and won its conference! That should be nothing but an unequivocally awesome season. Wrap a bow on it, call it great, start planning Thanksgiving dinner.

Beating Towson 40-38 in the playoffs in 2011 is one of my most treasured Lehigh football memories. That they lost the following week to NDSU took no luster off the season at all, and with their best player suspended, still gave NDSU a good fight. I will die on that hill. That was a tremendous experience for those players, the coaches and even the fans. If you take that away, you lose something.

[Seahawks Fan]

On this one, let us agree to disagree.

I agree with Go...gate. The FCS playoffs are a true example of how to pick a champion.

[DFW HOYA]

To the Patriot League, the calculus is interesting: The Ivies are tough, but if the games are essentially not going to count (which the FCS subcommittee appears to be saying), and the Patriot League are going to have to spend half the season trying to convince the rest of FCS that the games are hard, is it worth all the trouble, just to preserve some long-term rivalries? There isn't an easy answer. Lehigh has played Princeton for over 100 years, and abandoning that isn't something undertaken lightly. But if Lehigh gets a home-and-home with Delaware and beats them every once in a while, that will mean a hell of a lot more to their FCS standing than any win over Columbia, no matter how good they actually are.

Amidst the annual airing of grievances over the Ivy League, this is the salient issue. If Ivy teams are treated as sub-Division I for the purposes of the playoffs, (e.g., a win over Presbyterian will count more than a win over Princeton), as many as four PL schools have a serious decision on its hands. If playing an Ivy opponent is going to limit at-large consideration, do these schools drop these series as a matter of competitive preservation?

While we don't see it now, there will come a point when one or more PL schools will be at-large contenders. If a de facto rule like this is enforced, it puts pressure on the schools and ultimately the league itself to whether it can sustain a base that may have no at-large opportunities.

[RichH2]

Amidst the annual airing of grievances over the Ivy League, this is the salient issue. If Ivy teams are treated as sub-Division I for the purposes of the playoffs, (e.g., a win over Presbyterian will count more than a win over Princeton), as many as four PL schools have a serious decision on its hands. If playing an Ivy opponent is going to limit at-large consideration, do these schools drop these series as a matter of competitive preservation?

While we don't see it now, there will come a point when one or more PL schools will be at-large contenders. If a de facto rule like this is enforced, it puts pressure on the schools and ultimately the league itself to whether it can sustain a base that may have no at-large opportunities.
That issue is already on the horizon. Ironic that Ivies started to drop PL teams because of merit aid and now we may have to drop them for irrelevance. I doubt Lehigh will ever drop Princeton but that does not apply to the rest of the Ivies.

[Professor]

That's part of my point. Focusing on just who makes it to the championship game just creates an artificial feeling of inevitability that makes the whole season less fun. If the playoffs/championship game/champion itself are just a death march to a result that was preordained, it will make the whole season seem bad. My team went 7-1 and won its conference! That should be nothing but an unequivocally awesome season. Wrap a bow on it, call it great, start planning Thanksgiving dinner.

So its about the journey and not the actual winner?

[Go...gate]

That issue is already on the horizon. Ironic that Ivies started to drop PL teams because of merit aid and now we may have to drop them for irrelevance. I doubt Lehigh will ever drop Princeton but that does not apply to the rest of the Ivies.

Same with Colgate and Cornell, though I think Colgate will still play whatever Ivies they can schedule.

[Son of Eli]

Exactly. How can you justify having allowing all the other sports except football compete in the post season?


To avoid playing Alabama and getting our psyches hurt. xlolx

[Go...gate]

Grammar police alert.

Should have gone?

Surace clearly did not major in English at Princeton. :Dxrotatehx

[Sader87]

HC passed on being eligible for the then 1-AA playoffs in order to play BC on the last weekend of the season in 1984....won't be an issue moving forward but I obviously agreed then and now with the decision. A generation and a half ago true but I think that's still the general mindset of many who follow HC i.e the playoffs really aren't the be all and end all for a football season...playing our historic rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, BC etc) on a Fall day is what matters most.

[TheValleyRaider]

Same with Colgate and Cornell, though I think Colgate will still play whatever Ivies they can schedule.

Can't speak for beyond 2019, but Cornell and Dartmouth are listed for 2019. Would have been an interesting matchup with the Big Green this year

[RichH2]

The reason why Patriot League schools "carry the jock straps of the Ivies" is the same reason why, say, a fan of a SWAC team might pipe up when someone says NCAT shouldn't be listed in the Top 25. Patriot League and Ivy League schools frequently play each other out-of-conference and in many ways consider themselves peer schools. This takes on even more critical importance now that the FCS Playoff subcommittee appears to be inventing rules on the fly that wins over non-autobid conferences somehow are not considered or are of lesser consideration that those over autobid conferences, which is an utterly bat**** rule. (A loss to 10-0 Princeton, one of the best FCS teams in a generation, isn't considered, but a win over Butler is?)

I think most fans of Patriot League schools would be fine with the Ivy League joining the playoffs, but for us it is more of a factor of decades of having to carry their water for them because they refuse to represent themselves within the subdivision of FCS generally. You can see the attitude here by people, not putting them in their T25 ballots, and to a degree I understand. When is an NDSU fan going to have time to study Princeton's 10-0 team, when there is no way they will be playing them?

This puts Patriot League schools in an awkward position of having to constantly convince the FCS world at large that Dartmouth is a great team and would definitely give Maine a good game at worst (and I think they would beat them). It's like today's polarized environment in politics: I know Dartmouth is one of the top teams in the nation (I have Princeton at No. 2 behind NDSU, and I have Dartmouth in my Top 10), because I've seen both teams actually play, but many do not, and are convinced they suck without trying to encounter any evidence to change their minds.

The Ivies' football path has been fundamentally hypocritical over a generation, and has only become more hypocritical over time. Additionally, the Ivy League does itself no favors and doesn't really try to ingratiate themselves within the rest of the FCS community, something that is infuriating for the Patriot League, because the Patriot League does and lives in the world of the subdivision in which they compete. In some ways they do straddle both "leagues", but when push comes to shove, they are FCS schools. I think the history of the league shows that.

To the Patriot League, the calculus is interesting: The Ivies are tough, but if the games are essentially not going to count (which the FCS subcommittee appears to be saying), and the Patriot League are going to have to spend half the season trying to convince the rest of FCS that the games are hard, is it worth all the trouble, just to preserve some long-term rivalries? There isn't an easy answer. Lehigh has played Princeton for over 100 years, and abandoning that isn't something undertaken lightly. But if Lehigh gets a home-and-home with Delaware and beats them every once in a while, that will mean a hell of a lot more to their FCS standing than any win over Columbia, no matter how good they actually are.

If the Ivies actually did their job and made even a half-assed attempt to present themselves as a part of FCS, it would make the Patriot League's life easier, because voters in North Dakota would know Princeton has a good team. Participating in the playoffs is one part of that, but it's actually so much more.

The writing on the wall. While I enjoy playing Princeton ,the PL has to shed the Ivy Lite baggage we've carried for far too long. Agree age old rivalries are part of our tradition but we can no longer hang on to rules that we adopted to imitate the Ivies. As the last few seasons have shown we no longer have the luxury to do so if we seriously claim to be seeking better OOC results and national relevance.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The writing on the wall. While I enjoy playing Princeton ,the PL has to shed the Ivy Lite baggage we've carried for far too long. Agree age old rivalries are part of our tradition but we can no longer hang on to rules that we adopted to imitate the Ivies. As the last few seasons have shown we no longer have the luxury to do so if we seriously claim to be seeking better OOC results and national relevance.

But Lehigh plays two NEC teams (Wagner and Sacred Heart) next year right? Along with UC Davis and Villanova? The 5th game escapes me but I'm pretty sure it's not an Ivy. I'm confident most Lehigh fans would gladly trade those two NEC games for two IL opponents. Colgate fans were worried their IL days were over but they keep Cornell and pick up a Dartmouth program that is rolling right now. They'll be really good again next year.

[RichH2]

owl
I am not saying dump all Ivies. Given the current state of PL football any claim to national relevance is fantasy for all but Gate. If indeed Ivy games are non counters for the committee, we have to anticipate limiting those games in the future if the PL wants national relevance again.

[Go Green]

Can't speak for beyond 2019, but Cornell and Dartmouth are listed for 2019. Would have been an interesting matchup with the Big Green this year

Do you expect a dropoff for 2019?

Dartmouth loses a few starting OL, one starting DL and spare parts. Assuming all our guys with a potential medical fifth year of eligibility return, we should be competitive next season.

[TheValleyRaider]

Do you expect a dropoff for 2019?

Dartmouth loses a few starting OL, one starting DL and spare parts. Assuming all our guys with a potential medical fifth year of eligibility return, we should be competitive next season.

14 starters graduating (per https://gocolgateraiders.com/documents/2018/11/13//Colgate_FB_Game_Notes_Army_.pdf?id=8398), including 3 WR, TB, 2/3 DL, 3/4 LB, 3/4 DB, so there will be some dropoff from this year. Depth has gotten some experience this year, which helps, but that's a lot of talent and a lot of leadership gone.

Definitely wish we could have seen you guys this year, all things considered

[Laker]

To avoid playing Alabama and getting our psyches hurt. xlolx

Accept a challenge and schedule UCF.................:D

[Herder]

HC passed on being eligible for the then 1-AA playoffs in order to play BC on the last weekend of the season in 1984....won't be an issue moving forward but I obviously agreed then and now with the decision. A generation and a half ago true but I think that's still the general mindset of many who follow HC i.e the playoffs really aren't the be all and end all for a football season...playing our historic rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, BC etc) on a Fall day is what matters most.

Next thing it sounds like you are about to say, “it’s not about winning, it’s about playing and having fun. It’s about participating.”

[Ivytalk]

These discussions of the Ivy League always amuse me. They can choose to do whatever they want. I get the irritation some feel when they are ranked highly or at the claims of how well they will do in the playoffs. However, normally most of the individuals on this board who argue about how well they would do or who they should be ranked over are not IL posters. Generally I see a lot of IL posters stating how they would like to participate in the playoffs, or that so and so is a great team and I would love to give them the chance to prove themselves.

To some of our Patriot League fans who see the need to carry the jock straps for the Ivies, what gives? Your league participates in the playoffs and has had the occasional great run. I am looking forward to seeing how Colgate does this year. If you think the Ivies are so wonderful and want to be like them and only be able to debate how well your teams would do, then lobby your Presidents to leave the playoffs. Although, I do not think any IL-PL bowl games will be forthcoming.

The Ivies, like the HBCU's, have chosen what works for them. If they are happy and it makes sense to the schools, players, fans and donors, great. If not, then those same groups need to change it. Hearing complaints from me or anyone else outside of their bubble will not and should not carry any weight.

As for those posters from any fanbase claiming their team or any team who makes a choice not to participate in the playoffs is better than or deserves a higher ranking than a team that does participate, I have a little story. I had a friend in high school whom discussions with would seem to indicate a great level of intelligence. He would insist how smart he was and how below him school was and choose not to show up or complete course work. Eventually he realized he would not graduate if he didn't put in a bare minimum of effort and just showing up. This drove him nuts, and made him insist even more how intelligent he was. Of course no one believed him since he had no proof that he could complete anything. After hearing his schtick one too many times, I told him what I will now tell you, "**** you moron."
Well said. One of the few rational posts on this thread.

[Ivytalk]

Grammar police alert.

Should have gone?
It’s Princeton, after all. Rich kids who couldn’t get into either Harvard or Yale.xsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

14 starters graduating (per https://gocolgateraiders.com/documents/2018/11/13//Colgate_FB_Game_Notes_Army_.pdf?id=8398), including 3 WR, TB, 2/3 DL, 3/4 LB, 3/4 DB, so there will be some dropoff from this year. Depth has gotten some experience this year, which helps, but that's a lot of talent and a lot of leadership gone.

Definitely wish we could have seen you guys this year, all things considered

As well as Princeton. Their offense against our defense would have been a hell of a match-up.

[Bisonoline]

HC passed on being eligible for the then 1-AA playoffs in order to play BC on the last weekend of the season in 1984....won't be an issue moving forward but I obviously agreed then and now with the decision. A generation and a half ago true but I think that's still the general mindset of many who follow HC i.e the playoffs really aren't the be all and end all for a football season...playing our historic rivals (Harvard, Dartmouth, BC etc) on a Fall day is what matters most.

If thats all you can ever hope for then thats all you will ever be.

[Sader87]

If thats all you can ever hope for then thats all you will ever be.

The FCS playoffs are just not that important for a variety of reasons....believe me, life will go on and in most cases, very well for Holy Cross football players without playing in the FCS playoffs.

[Bisonoline]

The FCS playoffs are just not that im4 (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?218927-Fourth-United-States-Federal-Government-National-Climate-Report/page4)portant for a variety of reasons....believe me, life will go on and in most cases, very well for Holy Cross football players without playing in the FCS playoffs.

You----Dont talk for the players.