Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 12

[DFW HOYA]

Six PL teams end their season Saturday, though not in the order anyone predicted.

The week 12 lineup includes a friends and family matinee in Lewisburg and a game for pride and playoff seeding at West Point. Perhaps the most interesting game of the week takes place at Mini-Cooper Field, where a resurgent Holy Cross team faces a Georgetown club seeking its second winning season since 1999,. The winner claims second place in a league that, excepting the Red Raiders, no one distinguished themselves in.

Note that the Lehigh-Lafayette game does not contain a "loser leaves town" stipulation for its coaches this year.

Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4), 12
Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), 12
Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1), 12:30
Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayettte (3-7, 2-3), 12:30

[bonarae]

Bucknell - just how hard Fordham fell?
Army - close game perhaps? Colgate was exposed but 'Gate can score another FCS upset (possibly the last) for this season.
Georgetown - this season has been a blur for most of the PL; Hoyas took advantage of the weak L's
Lafayette - Goodbye Coen!

[Ramblin' Man]

Rams
Black Knights
Hoyas
Leopards

[kdinva]

Bucknell 20; Fordham 17
Army 34; Colgate 20
Georgetown 27; H C 21
Lafayette 20; Lehigh 16.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Have two 1 win PL teams ever face off in the final week? Those records are just hideous....

[LehighU11]

Have two 1 win PL teams ever face off in the final week? Those records are just hideous....
Not quite. 1-9 Holy Cross and 0-10 Colgate met in the final week in 1995. HC won and 'gate finished winless.

[Go...gate]

Not quite. 1-9 Holy Cross and 0-10 Colgate met in the final week in 1995. HC won and 'gate finished winless.

And Ed Sweeney, Colgate's coach, was dismissed the next day with a record of 6-26-1.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not quite. 1-9 Holy Cross and 0-10 Colgate met in the final week in 1995. HC won and 'gate finished winless.

Great research! xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Fordham
Army
Georgetown
Lafayette

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

I would like to see and pick the Rams, the Cadets, the Crusaders and Engineers to win.

[PAllen]

Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4), Bucknell 14-6
Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), Colgate (why not?) 34-31
Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1), 12:30, Georgetown 27-24
Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayettte (3-7, 2-3), 12:30, Lehigh 28-17 (and Coen resigns during the post game press conference siting health reasons and wanting to spend more time with his family)

[carney2]

A merciful end to this travesty.

Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4), 12 - If they both lose, it would be proof that there is a God and that justice prevails.

Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), 12 - This observer still has that nagging feeling that the 'gaters are beneficiaries of a cream puff schedule and are just not as good as some/most believe. I hope I'm wrong, but this looks like the first of two big whoopings.

Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1), 12:30 - Both teams deserve the win, but only one will prevail. Cross is the wave of the future, and the future begins now.

Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayette(3-7, 2-3), 12:30 - Without help from anyone, the Steamy Pile has turned this gimme game into a competitive match-up. They deserve to lose. They will lose.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

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Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), 12 - This observer still has that nagging feeling that the 'gaters are beneficiaries of a cream puff schedule and are just not as good as some/most believe. I hope I'm wrong, but this looks like the first of two big whoopings.




In analyzing this matchup, I think a bit of caution and skepticiam is warranted. However, if one wanted to take the other side of this bet, "This observer" may be one of the best contrarian indicators that could influence an astute betting man.

[Pards Rule]

So both Coen and Susan gone after this year?? Wow a two fer in Patriot! Has that ever happened in a single year? Wheres that researcher here earlier??

[LehighU11]

So both Coen and Susan gone after this year?? Wow a two fer in Patriot! Has that ever happened in a single year? Wheres that researcher here earlier??
HC and Colgate both hired new coaches after their dreadful 1995 seasons.

To open the first season of the Colonial League in 1986, Bucknell, HC, and Lehigh all hired new coaches after rough 1985 campaigns. Fordham--still at D3--brought in a new coach that year, too.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

HC and Colgate both hired new coaches after their dreadful 1995 seasons.

To open the first season of the Colonial League in 1986, Bucknell, HC, and Lehigh all hired new coaches after rough 1985 campaigns. Fordham--still at D3--brought in a new coach that year, too.

This league has seen its share of good and bad coaches.

Top 5 Coaches in PL History?
1. Biddle
2. Duffner
3. Higgins
4. Clawson
5. Moorhead

Lembo probably next?

Then a pretty big dropoff imo to Russo, Coen, Gadd, Tavani?

[PAllen]

This league has seen its share of good and bad coaches.

Top 5 Coaches in PL History?
1. Biddle
2. Duffner
3. Higgins
4. Clawson
5. Moorhead

Lembo probably next?

Then a pretty big dropoff imo to Russo, Coen, Gadd, Tavani?

Dunlap?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Dunlap?

He coached 2 years in the Colonial League era, went 11-11. Perhaps on a slight technicality due to overall body of work prior?

[RichH2]

This league has seen its share of good and bad coaches.

Top 5 Coaches in PL History?
1. Biddle
2. Duffner
3. Higgins
4. Clawson
5. Moorhead

Lembo probably next?

Then a pretty big dropoff imo to Russo, Coen, Gadd, Tavani?

While Duffner was a good coach, he came in with a huge edge with a scholly squad vs need aid teams.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

While Duffner was a good coach, he came in with a huge edge with a scholly squad vs need aid teams.

I thought about that but his overall success can't be ignored.

Final National Rank
'86 - #5
'87 - #3 (widely regarded as one of the best FCS/1-AA teams ever)
'88 - #19
'89 - #4T
'90 - #8
'91 - #3

[Pards Rule]

This league has seen its share of good and bad coaches.

Top 5 Coaches in PL History?
1. Biddle
2. Duffner
3. Higgins
4. Clawson
5. Moorhead

Lembo probably next?

Then a pretty big dropoff imo to Russo, Coen, Gadd, Tavani?

Im more inclined to up Russos stock in that he really turned around, for a number of years, a moribund program. Lost it in his last few years.

[RichH2]

Im more inclined to up Russos stock in that he really turned around, for a number of years, a moribund program. Lost it in his last few years.

Agree on Russo. He and Lembo should slide into top 10.

[ColgateTD]

Bucknell 17, Fordham 10 - Bison defense makes the difference.
G'town 21, Holy Cross 14 - I see a winning season for the Hoyas.
Pards 13, Ngineers 10 - Low scoring rivalry game for #154.
Colgate 17, Army 14 - Gate's defense shows it's for real; Keep the faith, I say.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Im more inclined to up Russos stock in that he really turned around, for a number of years, a moribund program. Lost it in his last few years.

I feel like Russo and Tavani had similar tenures at Lafayette. Both took over a struggling program and was able to reach a pretty high ceiling. Tavani was able to sustain a longer run of success imo. Russo seemed to have a good team then a bad team then a decent team and so on....

[Franks Tanks]

Frank can’t hold Russo’s jock.

From 81 to 94ish Bill was a highly respected coach. It’s easy to forget as his last few years were mediocre, but Bill was a very good offensive mind. It was 100% his offense. He called the plays, installed the scheme, designed the blocking schemes and route trees. Especially in the 80’s young coaches wanted to come to Easton to learn under Bill. Guys like Tim Murphy, Jack Siedecki and Steve Spagnolo to name a few.

Russo’s running game was predicated on a run play nobody else ran. Called the grace and G (one was given to the FB and the other the TB out of the eye). It was a down block and trap playside that was the bread and butter play for guys like Marsh, Costello and Priest. He also ran the old Joe Gibbs counter tre. His run game was nasty, mean and brutal and he crushed it when he had the proper personnel. He paired his power run game with a big play downfield passing game. However, he never really adapted. When he had a so-so line his offense wasn’t very effective, and toward the end of his tenure he just lost steam. He wasn’t getting the players he needed due to admin issues, and the fact that he just wasn’t recruiting as vigorously.

Russo was also a bad little dude. He was a maniac in a good way. The foulest mouth I’ve ever heard. He would kick your ass and then make you fell like a million bucks. The kind of guy who made you want to run though a wall, who would later give you a hug. He was also just about the funniest and craziest dude you’ve ever met.

One little secret about Russo that few know is that he didn’t really give a crap what you did off the field. Sure he cared that you had decent grades, but he seldom talked about school. He frankly let guys run wild and I think he secretly loved the out of control dudes. This came to a head a bit at the end of his tenure when the losses piled up, and attitudes around campus changed, and I think partially resulted in him leaving in 99. He wasn’t going to change, and wasn’t gonna allow anyone to tell him how to run his program.

[bonarae]

Meanwhile... (I can't find the general FCS over FBS scalp thread for this year ATM)

Over at the FCS discussion group on FB, seems that Army may win due to Colgate not being exposed much to the triple option as some Southern FCS teams also do.

Will this also be a problem for 'Gate come playoff time? xchinscratchx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Frank can’t hold Russo’s jock.

From 81 to 94ish Bill was a highly respected coach. It’s easy to forget as his last few years were mediocre, but Bill was a very good offensive mind. It was 100% his offense. He called the plays, installed the scheme, designed the blocking schemes and route trees. Especially in the 80’s young coaches wanted to come to Easton to learn under Bill. Guys like Tim Murphy, Jack Siedecki and Steve Spagnolo to name a few.

Russo’s running game was predicated on a run play nobody else ran. Called the grace and G (one was given to the FB and the other the TB out of the eye). It was a down block and trap playside that was the bread and butter play for guys like Marsh, Costello and Priest. He also ran the old Joe Gibbs counter tre. His run game was nasty, mean and brutal and he crushed it when he had the proper personnel. He paired his power run game with a big play downfield passing game. However, he never really adapted. When he had a so-so line his offense wasn’t very effective, and toward the end of his tenure he just lost steam. He wasn’t getting the players he needed due to admin issues, and the fact that he just wasn’t recruiting as vigorously.

Russo was also a bad little dude. He was a maniac in a good way. The foulest mouth I’ve ever heard. He would kick your ass and then make you fell like a million bucks. The kind of guy who made you want to run though a wall, who would later give you a hug. He was also just about the funniest and craziest dude you’ve ever met.

One little secret about Russo that few know is that he didn’t really give a crap what you did off the field. Sure he cared that you had decent grades, but he seldom talked about school. He frankly let guys run wild and I think he secretly loved the out of control dudes. This came to a head a bit at the end of his tenure when the losses piled up, and attitudes around campus changed, and I think partially resulted in him leaving in 99. He wasn’t going to change, and wasn’t gonna allow anyone to tell him how to run his program.

Great perspective on Russo! He did have some good years and was solid from '81 to '94 but overall it was a lot of 6-5, 5-6, 5-4-2 type seasons. I'll take a Lafayette grads word he belongs above Tavani. I was going by Tavani's run from 2004-2009. Russo never put together anything quite like that. Russo's two best teams were '81 (his 1st) and '88 imo. 1992 had some good to great individual talent like Marsh/Kirchoff etc but the PL overall was slipping post HC scholarships. To be fair, I did have Russo listed ahead of Tavani. xlolx

Russo's overall record at Lafayette was 103-98-4, 40-29-1 in the PL
Tavani 84-107 overall, 48-55 in PL

Definitely advantage Russo

[Pards Rule]

Great perspective on Russo! He did have some good years and was solid from '81 to '94 but overall it was a lot of 6-5, 5-6, 5-4-2 type seasons. I'll take a Lafayette grads word he belongs above Tavani. I was going by Tavani's run from 2004-2009. Russo never put together anything quite like that. Russo's two best teams were '81 (his 1st) and '88 imo. 1992 had some good to great individual talent like Marsh/Kirchoff etc but the PL overall was slipping post HC scholarships. To be fair, I did have Russo listed ahead of Tavani. xlolx

Russo's overall record at Lafayette was 103-98-4, 40-29-1 in the PL
Tavani 84-107 overall, 48-55 in PL

Definitely advantage Russo

Yeah I agree, advantage Russo. Give Frank credit for that amazing run 04-09, with hard fought and competitive playoff games vs Delaware, App State and UMass, not so much UNH as they limped into that game 5-6. Hard to believe 20 seasons already Russo gone. I remember him at the end of that final game at Goodman, a near major upset of a far superior Lehigh squad, a 14-12 loss, standing in the locker room end zone all alone just contemplating on a career basically finished at that moment. He is in Asheville NC now, running around the country in finer weather in his RV.

[Franks Tanks]

Great perspective on Russo! He did have some good years and was solid from '81 to '94 but overall it was a lot of 6-5, 5-6, 5-4-2 type seasons. I'll take a Lafayette grads word he belongs above Tavani. I was going by Tavani's run from 2004-2009. Russo never put together anything quite like that. Russo's two best teams were '81 (his 1st) and '88 imo. 1992 had some good to great individual talent like Marsh/Kirchoff etc but the PL overall was slipping post HC scholarships. To be fair, I did have Russo listed ahead of Tavani. xlolx

Russo's overall record at Lafayette was 103-98-4, 40-29-1 in the PL
Tavani 84-107 overall, 48-55 in PL

Definitely advantage Russo

Agree his penchant for putting up some mediocre records between really good years is an issue, and not really sure why that was the case. I think it’s just that his run game was hard to run with inexperienced or less talented linemen. He didn’t change his scheme much to account for players that were unable to execute as well as needed I suppose. He wanted to beat you up, and throw it over the top, and was probably too stubborn to deviate much.

[Franks Tanks]

Meanwhile... (I can't find the general FCS over FBS scalp thread for this year ATM)

Over at the FCS discussion group on FB, seems that Army may win due to Colgate not being exposed much to the triple option as some Southern FCS teams also do.

Will this also be a problem for 'Gate come playoff time? xchinscratchx

Army is a clinic on the TO this year. They have some really good FB’s, but no real game breakers at RB or QB. They are however ridiculously efficient and have been able to posses the ball for obscene lengths of times. Against Air Force that had a 13 minute 22 some play TD drive. They just get the ball and don’t give it up. I think Colgate will give them a very competitive game, but still see something like 28-7, with a solid statical advantage in favor or Army. However, if Colgate can get a few turnovers and a few big plays things may get very interesting.

[PAllen]

Meanwhile... (I can't find the general FCS over FBS scalp thread for this year ATM)

Over at the FCS discussion group on FB, seems that Army may win due to Colgate not being exposed much to the triple option as some Southern FCS teams also do.

Will this also be a problem for 'Gate come playoff time? xchinscratchx

Not being tested might certainly be a problem. Increased game speed has bitten Lehigh more than a few times in past playoff appearances (I'm not talking about the recent fiascos)

[ngineer]

1. The Pitiful Bowl should be a nail biter. Actually Bucknell more 'ewe' than Fordam. Rams 24-10

2.'gate might be able to finish the season unblemished. Not easy in Michie. I expect a low scoring defensive struggle with perhaps a turnover making the difference. Hoping for the Raiders to hold up the PL's honor. Colgate 16-13,

3.Georgetown must be sky high with a shot to finish #2 in the League. Gotta be stoked and I expect them to come through. Hoyas rock on, 24-20.

4. If Lehigh cannot acquit themselves well at Fisher Field, then Coen should be gone. I have no clue what is going to show up on Saturday. The Lehigh seniors have never lost to Laughyette. Likewise, the Leotard seniors have never beaten Lehigh. Which is the greater motivator? My sense, from a psychological sense is that, that edge goes to the spotted pussies. However, if Lehigh loses, it will be the worst record turned in by a Brown & Team in 50 F***ing years!!! Motivation not to be joined in that infamy? Or will there be motivation enough, in playing for the guy strapping it up next to you? The Mountain Hawks have not shown emotion/commitment this year. I am concerned as to whether they can just 'turn it on' for the final game. I Never want to lose to the bastards on College Hill, but I don't know if this year's team wants anything, other than for the season to be over. I hate to say it, but based on this year's 'body of work', Laughyette's "body" is more "impressive". While my heart is always with my alma mater, I hope I am wrong, but my pick is Laughyette, 38-27.

[Kramden]

How many wins, besides the 5 won by Colgate in 2003 and 2015, have the Patriot Leage gotten in the FCS/1-AA playoffs?

[Pard4Life]

How many wins, besides the 5 won by Colgate in 2003 and 2015, have the Patriot Leage gotten in the FCS/1-AA playoffs?

Lehigh has won a few. So has Fordham.

Lafayette has come close - replay did not exist but we had a INT not called while tied 20-20 late at App State in 2005.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How many wins, besides the 5 won by Colgate in 2003 and 2015, have the Patriot Leage gotten in the FCS/1-AA playoffs?

Lehigh
24-23 @ Richmond in 1998
37-7 @ Western Illinois 2000
24-21 OT Hofstra 2001
14-7 @ Nothern Iowa 2010
41-39 1st Round Bye then @ Towson 2011

It took Lehigh 3 undefeated ('98, '00, '01) regular seasons and a 10-1 team in 1999 (lost in the 1st round at Hofstra) to get a home playoff game in 2001. Had the committee not been so ridiculous I think they make a deeper run one of those years. Lehigh lost to eventual champ UMass 27-21 in 1998 quarters. Had first and goal with a minute left and couldn't get in. Lost 14-13 to eventual champ JMU in 2004. The infamous 7th and goal JMU TD late in the game.

Fordham
2002, 29-24 @ Northeastern
2013, 37-27 Sacred Heart
2014, 44-22 Sacred Heart

[Go...gate]

Dunlap?

Yes. The Championship trophy is named after him.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This league has seen its share of good and bad coaches.

Top 5 Coaches in PL History?
1. Biddle
2. Duffner
3. Higgins
4. Clawson
5. Moorhead

Lembo probably next?

Then a pretty big dropoff imo to Russo, Coen, Gadd, Tavani?

How is Moorhead anything but No. 1 on this list?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

How is Moorhead anything but No. 1 on this list?

Moorhead won 1 PL title and I think in some ways didn't maximize the Rams run due to a bit of an indifference to defense. He might very well prove to be the PL with the highest career ceiling but when going by a combination of best and most accomplished PL coach I think 5th is probably right. I think Clawson's tenure was more impressive. He literally built that program from a trash pile into a Top 25 force.

When factoring in the scholarship advantage Moorhead's resume is that of poor man's Duffner. Don't get me wrong, Moorhead a is great coach and might go on to kill at the FBS level but he really didn't do anything "next level" at Fordham. It was a good run but....? It's no where close to the resumes Biddle, Duffner and Higgins put together.

Biddle is #1 and that's not even debatable imo....

[PAllen]

Lehigh
24-23 @ Richmond in 1998
37-7 @ Western Illinois 2000
24-21 OT Hofstra 2001
14-7 @ Nothern Iowa 2010
41-39 1st Round Bye then @ Towson 2011

It took Lehigh 3 undefeated ('98, '00, '01) regular seasons and a 10-1 team in 1999 (lost in the 1st round at Hofstra) to get a home playoff game in 2001. Had the committee not been so ridiculous I think they make a deeper run one of those years. Lehigh lost to eventual champ UMass 27-21 in 1998 quarters. Had first and goal with a minute left and couldn't get in. Lost 14-13 to eventual champ JMU in 2004. The infamous 7th and goal JMU TD late in the game.

Fordham
2002, 29-24 @ Northeastern
2013, 37-27 Sacred Heart
2014, 44-22 Sacred Heart

To be fair, word was that the committee wanted to award Lehigh a higher seed in 1998, but the school didn't bid the minimum (or whatever the requirement was back then).

[Pards Rule]

Frank can’t hold Russo’s jock.

From 81 to 94ish Bill was a highly respected coach. It’s easy to forget as his last few years were mediocre, but Bill was a very good offensive mind. It was 100% his offense. He called the plays, installed the scheme, designed the blocking schemes and route trees. Especially in the 80’s young coaches wanted to come to Easton to learn under Bill. Guys like Tim Murphy, Jack Siedecki and Steve Spagnolo to name a few.

Russo’s running game was predicated on a run play nobody else ran. Called the grace and G (one was given to the FB and the other the TB out of the eye). It was a down block and trap playside that was the bread and butter play for guys like Marsh, Costello and Priest. He also ran the old Joe Gibbs counter tre. His run game was nasty, mean and brutal and he crushed it when he had the proper personnel. He paired his power run game with a big play downfield passing game. However, he never really adapted. When he had a so-so line his offense wasn’t very effective, and toward the end of his tenure he just lost steam. He wasn’t getting the players he needed due to admin issues, and the fact that he just wasn’t recruiting as vigorously.

Russo was also a bad little dude. He was a maniac in a good way. The foulest mouth I’ve ever heard. He would kick your ass and then make you fell like a million bucks. The kind of guy who made you want to run though a wall, who would later give you a hug. He was also just about the funniest and craziest dude you’ve ever met.

One little secret about Russo that few know is that he didn’t really give a crap what you did off the field. Sure he cared that you had decent grades, but he seldom talked about school. He frankly let guys run wild and I think he secretly loved the out of control dudes. This came to a head a bit at the end of his tenure when the losses piled up, and attitudes around campus changed, and I think partially resulted in him leaving in 99. He wasn’t going to change, and wasn’t gonna allow anyone to tell him how to run his program.

FT, I heard where Russo was offered other slots in the 80s, as Columbia HC (is that right?) and what others, if any?

[RichH2]

FT, I heard where Russo was offered other slots in the 80s, as Columbia HC (is that right?) and what others, if any?

There were a few other names floating around back then PR. Dont recall them all but I do remember Army was mentioned.

[Franks Tanks]

FT, I heard where Russo was offered other slots in the 80s, as Columbia HC (is that right?) and what others, if any?

I’m sure he had chances to leave when he was younger, but I don’t know any specifics. He was the national 1-AA coach of the year 30 years ago so he had to draw some attention.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I’m sure he had chances to leave when he was younger, but I don’t know any specifics. He was the national 1-AA coach of the year 30 years ago so he had to draw some attention.

He had to have had some pretty good offers. He beat Holy Cross, finish 8-2-1, won the league then have your star QB on the cover of SI's college football preview edition the next season? Definitely a peak period for the Russo stock....

[ColgateTD]

Bracketology has Colgate seeded 4th in the playoffs with a bye week and facing the winner of Maine-Stony Brook. Yay!

[carney2]

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Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), 12 - This observer still has that nagging feeling that the 'gaters are beneficiaries of a cream puff schedule and are just not as good as some/most believe. I hope I'm wrong, but this looks like the first of two big whoopings.




In analyzing this matchup, I think a bit of caution and skepticiam is warranted. However, if one wanted to take the other side of this bet, "This observer" may be one of the best contrarian indicators that could influence an astute betting man.

I think I've just been insulted.

[carney2]

I feel like Russo and Tavani had similar tenures at Lafayette. Both took over a struggling program and was able to reach a pretty high ceiling. Tavani was able to sustain a longer run of success imo. Russo seemed to have a good team then a bad team then a decent team and so on....

Correct. Both were full of pi$$ and vinegar for a number of years, but eventually got worn down by a disinterested and uncooperative administration.

[DFW HOYA]

Correct. Both were full of pi$$ and vinegar for a number of years, but eventually got worn down by a disinterested and uncooperative administration.

Garrett does not seem to be in the mold of either of them. Is he already resigned to what he can do?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Colgate is a great Patriot League team, but Army... is a different sort of challenge. Especially with only four days to prepare.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh
24-23 @ Richmond in 1998
37-7 @ Western Illinois 2000
24-21 OT Hofstra 2001
14-7 @ Nothern Iowa 2010
41-39 1st Round Bye then @ Towson 2011

It took Lehigh 3 undefeated ('98, '00, '01) regular seasons and a 10-1 team in 1999 (lost in the 1st round at Hofstra) to get a home playoff game in 2001. Had the committee not been so ridiculous I think they make a deeper run one of those years. Lehigh lost to eventual champ UMass 27-21 in 1998 quarters. Had first and goal with a minute left and couldn't get in. Lost 14-13 to eventual champ JMU in 2004. The infamous 7th and goal JMU TD late in the game.

Fordham
2002, 29-24 @ Northeastern
2013, 37-27 Sacred Heart
2014, 44-22 Sacred Heart

Northeastern had football... forgot about that...

[LehighU11]

Northeastern had football... forgot about that...
Northeastern had a team the last time Lafayette had a winning season.

[TheValleyRaider]

4-0 last week, looking good down the stretch run. 37-13 for the season, just one more week to go.

Fordham at Bucknell Fordham Definitely a rough-looking matchup, but a certain amount of intrigue. At this point, the Rams have a few close losses, leading me to think they might be better than their record suggests. The Bison, meanwhile, have only once come close to victory since their (now rather stunning) upset of Holy Cross, which makes me think they are exactly as good as their record suggests.

Colgate at Army Colgate It will be interesting to see how Colgate plays this one, knowing the playoffs are around the corner. I expect the starters will stay in unless the game gets out of hand. If the Raiders get a win along the Hudson, it will require the offense to be efficient and finish drives. Army will shorten the game, meaning our chances will be few and far between. Probably will not benefit from special teams and opponent mistakes the way they have in other games.

Holy Cross at Georgetown Holy Cross This is a contest between head and heart. It would be nice to see Georgetown finish above .500, for the players and some of their fans. HC, meanwhile, has been looking good down the stretch. Is it enough for them to be a challenger in 2019? We won't find out this weekend, but I think the Crusaders pull this one out in DC.

Lehigh at Lafayette Lafayette Neither team is coming in strong, just 5 wins combined on the season, only 2 total in the last 3 weeks. In spite of the idea that anything can happen in a rivalry, the better team usually wins. But who actually is that? Rumblings about both coaches makes this matchup feel even more volatile. The start strikes me as most important here, whoever can get out in front will probably win in the end. Taking the home team, but who really knows.

[Go...gate]

There were a few other names floating around back then PR. Dont recall them all but I do remember Army was mentioned.

Princeton in 1984-85, before the late Ron Rogerson got the job.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is a great Patriot League team, but Army... is a different sort of challenge. Especially with only four days to prepare.

Yes. I love the Red Raiders, but I'm a realist.

[Sader87]

Army is going to kill Colgate and Holy Cross is going to kill GTown....could not care less about the 2 other games.

[Bill]

As we wrap up a Luca Brasi - like Patriot League season (with all apologies to Colgate), I stand at an insane 43-8 on the year. Yes, I haven't picked with spreads, but I will never see this level of success again.

Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4)
Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0)
Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1)
Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayette (3-7, 2-3)

Please, make it stop!
Bonus fact of the day: My dad was on the 1965 Red Raider squad that defeated Army...the picture of the scoreboard hung on his office wall until the day he retired! I do hope Colgate can pull another one out. Besides, it will be fun having Citdog come in here and tell us how bad Hudson High is anyway.

[Fordham]

Bonus fact of the day: My dad was on the 1965 Red Raider squad that defeated Army...the picture of the scoreboard hung on his office wall until the day he retired! I do hope Colgate can pull another one out. Besides, it will be fun having Citdog come in here and tell us how bad Hudson High is anyway.

Very cool, Bill! Would be great if you had a pic of that shot to upload here

[Go...gate]

As we wrap up a Luca Brasi - like Patriot League season (with all apologies to Colgate), I stand at an insane 43-8 on the year. Yes, I haven't picked with spreads, but I will never see this level of success again.

Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4)
Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0)
Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1)
Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayette (3-7, 2-3)

Please, make it stop!
Bonus fact of the day: My dad was on the 1965 Red Raider squad that defeated Army...the picture of the scoreboard hung on his office wall until the day he retired! I do hope Colgate can pull another one out. Besides, it will be fun having Citdog come in here and tell us how bad Hudson High is anyway.

Colgate 29, Hudson High 28. Arguably Hal Lahar's greatest win at Colgate.

[Pards Rule]

Lehigh has won a few. So has Fordham.

Lafayette has come close - replay did not exist but we had a INT not called while tied 20-20 late at App State in 2005.

I have to watch that again on DVD...Wasnt there a "successful" onside kick by Pards that was waved off on a bogus offsides too?

[Pards Rule]

Northeastern had a team the last time Lafayette had a winning season.

I watched a dismal day at Fisher with Northeastern whomping Pards in Sept 1996, 36-6. First time I ever left a Pard game early.

[Pards Rule]

Princeton in 1984-85, before the late Ron Rogerson got the job.
Makes sense as he beat Princeton handily in 1982 for first win in a long time over Tigers AND that game Nick Kowgios ('84) set a school record with 269 yards rushing, broken by one Ross Scheuerman (304) on Nov. 22, 2014. Wow wonder why he didnt consider Army? Had quite a few competitive battles up there, including 1982 & 1988.

[Pards Rule]

Northeastern had football... forgot about that...

so did Hofstra!!

[Bill]

Very cool, Bill! Would be great if you had a pic of that shot to upload here

I'm working on getting an image of that sent to me now. Of course, I'll ask my Mom to do it :)

[carney2]

This week's odds:

Army 10 over Colgate
Fordham 1 1/2 over Bucknell
Lafayette 5 over Lehigh
Holy Cross 9 1/2 over Georgetown

[Pards Rule]

This week's odds:

Army 10 over Colgate
Fordham 1 1/2 over Bucknell
Lafayette 5 over Lehigh
Holy Cross 9 1/2 over Georgetown

So they come up with a spread this week for Army but not last week??

[carney2]

So they come up with a spread this week for Army but not last week??

Just another sign of the regard for Lafayette athletics.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This week's odds:

Army 10 over Colgate
Fordham 1 1/2 over Bucknell
Lafayette 5 over Lehigh
Holy Cross 9 1/2 over Georgetown

Fearless Prediction: Lehigh +5

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This week's odds:

Army 10 over Colgate
Fordham 1 1/2 over Bucknell
Lafayette 5 over Lehigh
Holy Cross 9 1/2 over Georgetown

Army and Fordham cover. I'll take Georgetown and Lehigh with the points but both lose.

[centraljerseycat]

As Villanova and Richmond further decline to irrelevancy in the CAA, wonder if it's time to reconsider the Patriot League....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As Villanova and Richmond further decline to irrelevancy in the CAA, wonder if it's time to reconsider the Patriot League....

The better question is, whether the Patriot League will do enough so that Villanova and Richmond could actually join?

[RichH2]

The better question is, whether the Patriot League will do enough so that Villanova and Richmond could actually join?

+1. PL has historically made little if any effort to accommodate CAA teams.xconfusedx

[UNHWildcat18]

well Lehigh didn't find their groove last week xlolx

Arm- won't have a problem
Fordham- idk who cares bucknell could win too, I guess
Holy Cross-wins by a FG
LEHIGH- lafayette finds a way to muck things up

[Lehigh'98]

Army is going to kill Colgate and Holy Cross is going to kill GTown....could not care less about the 2 other games.

Say it ain't so Sader. Plot twist, Lafayette lets us win by 50 this year to save Coen's job.

[RichH2]

Say it ain't so Sader. Plot twist, Lafayette lets us win by 50 this year to save Coen's job.

Certainly could happen. Pards are almost as screwed up as Lehigh. Not sure whether the W goes to the team that screws up the least or the most.xconfusedxxdontknowx

[Kramden]

I wish the PL would eliminate Football and Colgate joins the CAA.

[DFW HOYA]

I wish the PL would eliminate Football and Colgate joins the CAA.

The CAA already has 12 schools and there is no certainty Colgate would be the first choice to expand. It also begs the question that the NEC could not absorb the other six schools, the Big South would be a logistical nightmare for schools like Holy Cross, and the Pioneer rules would not allow the PL schools to stay in that league.

[RichH2]

I wish the PL would eliminate Football and Colgate joins the CAA.

Bah Humbug! Mr.Scrooge. xrolleyesx

[Bill]

Very cool, Bill! Would be great if you had a pic of that shot to upload here

Here it is - straight from my Dad's house...1965
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29488&stc=1

[Sader87]

Holy Cross would go FBS independent if it left the Patriot League.....don't think it might not either.....the PL has been a disaster overall for Holy Cross

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross would go FBS independent if it left the Patriot League.....don't think it might not either.....the PL has been a disaster overall for Holy Cross

HC does have the football facility to move to FBS.

If PL football were to fold (which I do not for a moment believe will ever happen), Colgate would become an FCS Independent.

[DFW HOYA]

HC does have the football facility to move to FBS.

No, it does not. Fitton Field is well under the minimum 30K requirement and the Crusaders are not even close to the 17K paid attendance requirement.

[Sader87]

Just sayin'.....Holy Cross football doesn't start and end with the Patriot League.....Holy Cross football has been hampered by the Patriot League in many ways....it will go on with or without this ferkukta league....

[PAllen]

HC does have the football facility to move to FBS.

If PL football were to fold (which I do not for a moment believe will ever happen), Colgate would become an FCS Independent.

As would Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh which is why I don't see it happening

[Go...gate]

No, it does not. Fitton Field is well under the minimum 30K requirement and the Crusaders are not even close to the 17K paid attendance requirement.

A look at the MAC, its facilities and actual attendance would indicate otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -


Just sayin'.....Holy Cross football doesn't start and end with the Patriot League.....Holy Cross football has been hampered by the Patriot League in many ways....it will go on with or without this ferkukta league....

??????

[Go...gate]

Just sayin'.....Holy Cross football doesn't start and end with the Patriot League.....Holy Cross football has been hampered by the Patriot League in many ways....it will go on with or without this ferkukta league....

After all, you guys coulda been in the Big East.

[PAllen]

After all, you guys coulda been in the Big East.

Or the AAC, or something.

[LehighU11]

FBS schools with enrollments under 10,000, excluding the service academies: UL-Monroe (9,290), Wake Forest (7,440), Rice (7,022), and Tulsa (4,352).
Holy Cross' enrollment: 2,787.

Rice is far closer to dropping FBS football than Holy Cross is to moving up. Like Lafayette, they've also had a study. Dropping down to DII/DIII and/or dropping football altogether were deemed feasible options. If Rice can't make it in the FBS in Texas, how could HC ever expect to make a go of it in the Northeast? We've heard too many declarations of the death of HC football and of football in the Northeast for me to believe in either's resurrection.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FBS schools with enrollments under 10,000, excluding the service academies: UL-Monroe (9,290), Wake Forest (7,440), Rice (7,022), and Tulsa (4,352).
Holy Cross' enrollment: 2,787.

Rice is far closer to dropping FBS football than Holy Cross is to moving up. Like Lafayette, they've also had a study. Dropping down to DII/DIII and/or dropping football altogether were deemed feasible options. If Rice can't make it in the FBS in Texas, how could HC ever expect to make a go of it in the Northeast? We've heard too many declarations of the death of HC football and of football in the Northeast for me to believe in either's resurrection.

You forgot one that messes up your theory: Notre Dame (8,576)

[DFW HOYA]

Rice is far closer to dropping FBS football than Holy Cross is to moving up. Like Lafayette, they've also had a study. Dropping down to DII/DIII and/or dropping football altogether were deemed feasible options. If Rice can't make it in the FBS in Texas, how could HC ever expect to make a go of it in the Northeast? We've heard too many declarations of the death of HC football and of football in the Northeast for me to believe in either's resurrection.

The Rice study was nearly 10 years ago. Ironically, one of its options (which was rejected) was joining the Patriot League.

Rice's problem is more nuanced than that of Holy Cross--it has a 72,000 seat stadium with 60,000 empty seats every week, it doesn't have the enrollment or clout to get into a major conference and while it has gone to a bowl game or two in recent years, Conference USA is so far flung that it's not a good solution for building a program. It would be like HC playing in the Pioneer.

Rice could be competitive in the AAC with regional opponents like Houston, Tulane and SMU. But the AAC already has a team in Houston.

By the way, dropping football would even be worse. What conference would they play basketball and their other sports in? Rice averaged 2,295 a game in a 5,000 seat gym. If you think alumni are discouraged by C-USA, try playing in the Summit League with Oral Roberts and Nebraska-Omaha.

[LehighU11]

You forgot one that messes up your theory: Notre Dame (8,576)
That's Notre Dame's undergrad count (still 3x as high as HC). Total enrollment is closer to 12,300.

[Gate83]

The Cross leaving the PL is always an amusing topic. Besides being the fever dream of 10 posters on Crossports, is anyone else listening?

If they did leave for football I'd advocate throwing them out for everything else. Their other sports teams generally suck & it's not like their academic reputation helps anybody. Go play hoop in the MAAC & follow UMass in football, have fun!

[DFW HOYA]

A look at the MAC, its facilities and actual attendance would indicate otherwise.


MAC schools buy back their own tickets to get to the 15,000 average requirement. By this approach, and with 2018 attendance Holy Cross would have needed to buy 47,386 seats at the general admission price of $18 each, or spend $852,948, assuming Fitton could hold 30,000 people.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

MAC schools buy back their own tickets to get to the 15,000 average requirement. By this approach, and with 2018 attendance Holy Cross would have needed to buy 47,386 seats at the general admission price of $18 each, or spend $852,948, assuming Fitton could hold 30,000 people.

There couldn't have been more than 3k at the Ball State-WMU game last night. Weeknight games are tough enough and they added a 6 pm kickoff iirc in Municie, IN?!...yikes!! I'm glad Temple got out of the MAC before these weeknight games got increasingly popular.

No one in the PL needs to jump ship. The league as whole just needs to get better aka Fordham and Lehigh. Time will tell regarding Holy Cross and Lafayette. The Crusaders have shown some improvement this year but I'm not sure if Chesney will be there long enough to build the program beyond a good season or two. Lafayette's athletics as a whole remain dreadful. I've given up on Bucknell and I'll wait and see what the facility improvements at Georgetown look like.

[DFW HOYA]

I've given up on Bucknell and I'll wait and see what the facility improvements at Georgetown look like.

A far cry from what was originally proposed. I think there are some who just want to put something up and be done with it.

(Visiting crowds: prepare to bring folding chairs to sit on the east side.)

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

A far cry from what was originally proposed. I think there are some who just want to put something up and be done with it.

(Visiting crowds: prepare to bring folding chairs to sit on the east side.)

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

There's some promise there. Like I said, I'll wait until the finished product to pass final judgment. There's no reason the Hoyas can't be a topshelf need based program capable of competing within a middle tier (hopefully?!?!) scholarship conference. They're a win a way from a solo second place finish as it is.

The new Georgetown stadium has similar characteristics to the current version of Memorial Stadium at the University of North Dakota.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29491&stc=1

[PAllen]

The Rice study was nearly 10 years ago. Ironically, one of its options (which was rejected) was joining the Patriot League.

Rice's problem is more nuanced than that of Holy Cross--it has a 72,000 seat stadium with 60,000 empty seats every week, it doesn't have the enrollment or clout to get into a major conference and while it has gone to a bowl game or two in recent years, Conference USA is so far flung that it's not a good solution for building a program. It would be like HC playing in the Pioneer.

Rice could be competitive in the AAC with regional opponents like Houston, Tulane and SMU. But the AAC already has a team in Houston.

By the way, dropping football would even be worse. What conference would they play basketball and their other sports in? Rice averaged 2,295 a game in a 5,000 seat gym. If you think alumni are discouraged by C-USA, try playing in the Summit League with Oral Roberts and Nebraska-Omaha.

Was that the big announcement that never happened?

[PAllen]

MAC schools buy back their own tickets to get to the 15,000 average requirement. By this approach, and with 2018 attendance Holy Cross would have needed to buy 47,386 seats at the general admission price of $18 each, or spend $852,948, assuming Fitton could hold 30,000 people.

So one guarantee game. Got it.

[Colgate Raider Redux]

Holy Cross would go FBS independent if it left the Patriot League.....don't think it might not either.....the PL has been a disaster overall for Holy Cross

If Sader87 exhibits this kind of hubris as HC "approaches" a 5 win season for the first time since the 2015-16 season, what will he be like in 202_ when the saders "approach" their second .500 season in 9 plus years ? #Big Time

[ngineer]

A far cry from what was originally proposed. I think there are some who just want to put something up and be done with it.

(Visiting crowds: prepare to bring folding chairs to sit on the east side.)

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

What is that planned capacity, 6-7,000? Very much like Fordham's stadium with the visitors at one end. At least no track around it! And, I do detect lights! Heck of an improvement if it comes to fruition.

[DFW HOYA]

What is that planned capacity, 6-7,000? Very much like Fordham's stadium with the visitors at one end. At least no track around it! And, I do detect lights! Heck of an improvement if it comes to fruition.

3,250 on the seats, 750 on the end zone (which apparently counts for seating).

[Leopard Loyalist]

"We must all hang together or we will all hang separately" may be as true of PL football as of the 13 colonies. As has been said over and over, a few things need to be fixed, however....
Meanwhile back to predictions:
Fordham (1-9, 1-4) at Bucknell (1-9, 1-4), 12
Colgate (9-0, 6-0) at Army, (8-2, 1-0), 12
Holy Cross (4-6, 3-2) Georgetown (5-5, 4-1), 12:30
Lehigh (2-8, 1-4) at Lafayettte (3-7, 2-3), 12:30

[Sader87]

Holy Cross, like the Ivies, could go FBS tomorrow if it chosed to do so....it may very well down the line as FCS football is pretty much on life support in general.

[DFW HOYA]

Holy Cross, like the Ivies, could go FBS tomorrow if it chose to do so....it may very well down the line as FCS football is pretty much on life support in general.

This is not a realistic statement. Below are the NCAA requirements for such membership (empahases added).

An institution classified in Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) shall meet all the Division I membership requirements set forth in NCAA Division I Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:

1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20.Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams(males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams.

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule [B]and play at least five regular season home contests against FBS opponents.

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a [B]minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/Division%20I%20Forms/2010-11%20FBS%20Forms/Football%20Bowl%20Subqa%2012%208%2010.pdf

[Pards Rule]

A far cry from what was originally proposed. I think there are some who just want to put something up and be done with it.

(Visiting crowds: prepare to bring folding chairs to sit on the east side.)

https://facilities.georgetown.edu/sites/facilities/files/styles/rotator_image_overlay_unit_profile/public/cooper_field_-_abbreviated_ogb_presentation_floor_plans_12.21.20 16_page_01.jpg

When is this supposed to start and then open? Georgetown and Fordham are the only current Patriot League schools I have not seen a game at their stadium. Actually, never seen Georgetown play in person period. Why not add a modicum of seats on visitors side? There seems to be room? Nothing of architectural significance seems to be in play on that side?

[PAllen]

This is not a realistic statement. Below are the NCAA requirements for such membership (empahases added).

An institution classified in Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) shall meet all the Division I membership requirements set forth in NCAA Division I Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:

1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20.Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams(males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams.

2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Football Bowl Subdivision. Institutions shall schedule [B]and play at least five regular season home contests against FBS opponents.

3. Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.3]

4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(a)]

5. Annually offer a [B]minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.7.4-(b)]

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/AMA/Division%20I%20Forms/2010-11%20FBS%20Forms/Football%20Bowl%20Subqa%2012%208%2010.pdf


Buffalo, BC, UConn, UMass, Syracuse, Army, Navy, Temple, Rutgers would all be easy gets for home and home, or 2 for 1 games. The "home" games could always be played at Gillette if a big crowd was expected. I don't think HC is that far away from the $4M mark now and certainly wouldn't be hard to reach. If the Ivies went FBS (which yes, they could in a heartbeat if they wanted), then I would expect HC to be an FBS independent within 5 years.

[RichH2]

Bucknell over Fordham. Bison have the D at least between these two
Army over Colgate. Expect Raiders to make it a tough battle. Hope they can get W but not a probable outcome.
Hoyas over Crusaders. Not a rational pick but hopeful the GU can win out.
Lehigh over Lafayette . An even less rational pick but what the hell.xthumbsupx xrotatehx

[Go...gate]

Buffalo, BC, UConn, UMass, Syracuse, Army, Navy, Temple, Rutgers would all be easy gets for home and home, or 2 for 1 games. The "home" games could always be played at Gillette if a big crowd was expected. I don't think HC is that far away from the $4M mark now and certainly wouldn't be hard to reach. If the Ivies went FBS (which yes, they could in a heartbeat if they wanted), then I would expect HC to be an FBS independent within 5 years.

Yes, though Columbia, Brown and Dartmouth would have to "up-size" their facilities a bit.

[Go...gate]

As would Bucknell, Lafayette and Lehigh which is why I don't see it happening

I have always wondered if the most logical move would be for this "Core Four" to strike a new football scheduling arrangement with the Ivy League as Notre Dame has with the ACC.

[van]

Bucknell - Buffs have some QB play now and the D is always good
Army - although I expect a close game based on Gate D which is very solid against the run
Georgetown - Hoyas usually have depth issues by this time of year but seem to be pretty solid this year
Lehigh - game should rightly end in a tie but nowadays that does not happen so I will go with a dubious homer pick

[Go...gate]

Fordham 20, Bucknell 16

Army 35, Colgate 17

Georgetown 22, Holy Cross 20

Lafayette 26, Lehigh 23

Bonus Pick:

Princeton 37, Pennsylvania 21

[Sader87]

How does Coastal Carolina get around the FBS stadium size requirement?

[Go...gate]

How does Coastal Carolina get around the FBS stadium size requirement?

That stadium requirement is a paper tiger.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How does Coastal Carolina get around the FBS stadium size requirement?

This is why their FBS membership was, and continues to be, a complete farce.

[Go...gate]

As Villanova and Richmond further decline to irrelevancy in the CAA, wonder if it's time to reconsider the Patriot League....

We would be happy to have one or both of you. It would be a win-win for all parties.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

We would be happy to have one or both of you. It would be a win-win for all parties.

Not in the PL's current state. Both of those programs have won national titles recently and generally beat up on PL competition. Perhaps their administrations would have enough guts to ruffle some feathers in Green Pond?

[Go...gate]

Not in the PL's current state. Both of those programs have won national titles recently and generally beat up on PL competition. Perhaps their administrations would have enough guts to ruffle some feathers in Green Pond?

They would push all of us to get better, IMO. Competition improves the breed.

[DFW HOYA]

I have always wondered if the most logical move would be for this "Core Four" to strike a new football scheduling arrangement with the Ivy League as Notre Dame has with the ACC.

And the other three are on their own?

[ming01]

Colgate-Army total is 37. Spread is 11 currently.

[Go...gate]

And the other three are on their own?

Yes. That way, if the other three wanted to go in a different direction (which they seem to want to do), they would be free to chart their own course. Sometimes, it certainly seems like they want a divorce from the rest of the FB members. It gets very discouraging. I have been around since the beginning of the PL and think very highly of it and the benefits it has provided to most of its schools. But some of the members act like they are doing the league a favor.

[DFW HOYA]

Yes.

While you're doing away with us riff-raff, why not have the Core Four play each other twice a year? No need to play outside the family... xlolx

[Go...gate]

While you're doing away with us riff-raff, why not have the Core Four play each other twice a year? No need to play outside the family... xlolx

Did you read the whole post? The point I am making is that all the bitching should stop.

And GU is certainly not riff-raff (no need or invitation for you to put words in my mouth), but, notwithstanding the excellent year GU has had in the conference, they certainly lag everyone else from a standpoint of financial commitment and facilities.

[DFW HOYA]

Did you read the whole post? The point I am making is that all the bitching should stop.

And GU is certainly not riff-raff (no need or invitation for you to put words in my mouth), but, notwithstanding the excellent year GU has had in the conference, they certainly lag everyone else from a standpoint of financial commitment and facilities.

I get it, but your original response was simply "Yes."

(Who's the third, Bucknell or HC?)

[PAllen]

I get it, but your original response was simply "Yes."

(Who's the third, Bucknell or HC?)
Again, this is all the hypothetical that HC goes FBS independent.

[Go...gate]

I get it, but your original response was simply "Yes."

(Who's the third, Bucknell or HC?)

The three in question are GU, Fordham and Holy Cross.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not sure it was mentioned....or anyone cares but Fordham at Bucknell was moved from 12 to 1:30 to give crews additional time to cleanup the snow.

[Sader87]

The thing is, Patriot League football has done almost nothing for the overall bettahment of Holy Cross football in 30 years.

We (I) come across as bittah, I know....but Holy Cross fans have had really very few positives (if any) with football while associated with the league. It effectively ended our football rivalry with BC, our program went from the very top of the 1-AA/FCS level to essentially one of its level's bottom-feedah's, interest in the program has waned considerably etc etc etc...there has just been very few positives (in terms of overall program success anyway) while being associated with the Patriot League.

I know it comes across as being petty, ungrateful etc....but that's where many of us are coming from when it comes to Holy Cross and Patriot League football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The thing is, Patriot League football has done almost nothing for the overall bettahment of Holy Cross football in 30 years.

We (I) come across as bittah, I know....but Holy Cross fans have had really very few positives (if any) with football while associated with the league. It effectively ended our football rivalry with BC, our program went from the very top of the 1-AA/FCS level to essentially one of its level's bottom-feedah's, interest in the program has waned considerably etc etc etc...there has just been very few positives (in terms of overall program success anyway) while being associated with the Patriot League.

I know it comes across as being petty, ungrateful etc....but that's where many of us are coming from when it comes to Holy Cross and Patriot League football.

When BU restarts football and you have a built-in rivalry with the Terriers, everything will be different. Either that or when UMass finally decides to go the Idaho route.

More seriously, the issue for the Cross is really one of geography.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham
Army, hope it's close
Holy Cross
Lafayettte 27, Lehigh 24

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/11/rivalry154-game-breakdown-and-fearless.html

[Pard4Life]

Not sure it was mentioned....or anyone cares but Fordham at Bucknell was moved from 12 to 1:30 to give crews additional time to cleanup the snow.

You should have started that post with "Not that it event matters..."

o/u attendance in the stands? I say 200...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fordham 24 Bucknell 13; the Bison D is not very good this year
Army 30 Colgate 10; The Raiders need Breneman to be 100% to have a chance. Army will eat Attwood up.
Georgetown 23 Holy Cross 21; some how, some way the Hoyas a find a way at home...

Lafayette 31 Lehigh 17; Lehigh is terrible. Their defense continues to be horrific while the entire offense goes M.I.A at times. Lafayette showed more fight last week than Lehigh has all season. The Mountain Hawks claim to fame is beating Bucknell. Southern Columbia HS would beat the Bison by 10 points. Fingers crossed for big changes in the coming weeks....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You should have started that post with "Not that it event matters..."

o/u attendance in the stands? I say 200...

Basically all the top high school programs in Central PA have state playoff games tomorow. 200 could be an honest figure if you don't include "essential personnel".

[Pards Rule]

Up already and ready to watch #154 in Easton. PA.

[RichH2]

Up already and ready to watch #154 in Easton. PA.
Lets hope for a good game today. Both teams need one.xcoffeex

[carney2]

The thing is, Patriot League football has done almost nothing for the overall bettahment of Holy Cross football in 30 years.

We (I) come across as bittah, I know....but Holy Cross fans have had really very few positives (if any) with football while associated with the league. It effectively ended our football rivalry with BC, our program went from the very top of the 1-AA/FCS level to essentially one of its level's bottom-feedah's, interest in the program has waned considerably etc etc etc...there has just been very few positives (in terms of overall program success anyway) while being associated with the Patriot League.

I know it comes across as being petty, ungrateful etc....but that's where many of us are coming from when it comes to Holy Cross and Patriot League football.

And he continues to live in the past.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Really looking forward to 'Gate-Army. I'm interested to see how 'Gate's offense fairs against a legit defense.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Fun fact: Colgate and Army share the 1916 National Championship!

[RichH2]

Fun fact: Colgate and Army share the 1916 National Championship!

A cool factoid. Thanks.

[Sader87]

Gate QB not playing....Army is going to roll

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Gate QB not playing....Army is going to roll

Yeah this might get ugly. I don't think they had much of a shot with Breneman but at least he could keep the Army D somewhat honest. Attwood has no arm.

'Gate D getting shredded to start...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

7-0 Army 8:14 1Q

Not a good start for Colgate. Attwood has to do something...

[ColgateTD]

Army 7, Gate 0 a few minutes into 1st Q. Atwood starting at QB

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh defensive TD on the first play from scrimmage!!

7-0 Lehigh 14:42 1Q

[ColgateTD]

Army 14, Gate 0 about 8 min to go in the 2nd Q

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh puts together a good drive but it stalls at the Lafayette 3. Settle for a FG

10-0 Lehigh 8:33 1Q

[ColgateTD]

Lehigh puts together a good drive but it stalls at the Lafayette 3. Settle for a FG

10-0 Lehigh 8:33 1Q

Army 14-0 at the half.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Georgetown 21 Holy Cross 5 8:24 2Q

[Sader87]

24-5 H GTown...nightmare of a 1st H....credit GTown D but just everything about this game: facilities, officiating, broadcast etc reeks of small-time football

[ColgateTD]

Colgate recovers fumble and scores. Army 14, Gate 7 in 3rd Q.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fordham 7 Bucknell 0 start 2Q

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham 7 Bucknell 0 start 2Q

Attendance:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/bucknell_404.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Guess the attendance:

http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/images/bucknell_404.jpg

Pard4Life might have hit the number!! Wow!!!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The Hoyas are putting in on the Crusaders!!

31-5 5:02 3Q

[Sader87]

31-12 now....bizarre game, the GTown O has done next to nothing yet have 31 points

[van]

31-12 now....bizarre game, the GTown O has done next to nothing yet have 31 points

and they are in the Big East xsmiley_wix

[ColgateTD]

Army 21, Gate 14 with 2+ minutes left. Holland is a monster today, showing he is THE MAN in this game.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Army 21, Gate 14 with 2+ minutes left. Holland is a monster today, showing he is THE MAN in this game.

Nah, our fullback Woolfolk is THE MAN!

[Sader87]

Blocked punt TD, 2 pt'er no good.... 31-18 now....14 left

[ColgateTD]

Army scores with 2 minutes left. Gate down 28-14. Looks like its over, but the Raiders acquited themselves well. Holland must have over 200 yds.

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Blocked punt TD, 2 pt'er no good.... 31-18 now....14 left

C'mon Crusaders!

[ColgateTD]

Army wins, 28-14. Nothing to be ashamed of by the Raiders. Army is tough and should destroy Navy. Now it's on to the FSC playoffs for Gate..

[Sader87]

Another blocked punt TD....31-25 now

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Another blocked punt TD....31-25 now

Two blocked punt TDs? What is this? 1930s football?

[Sader87]

Two blocked punt TDs? What is this? 1930s football?

Did it against BC too lol

[Sader87]

HC 32-31 undah a minute

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

HC 32-31 undah a minute

Wow!! What a comeback and what would be a heartbreaking loss for the Hoya team and program...

[Sader87]

HC wins 32-31....the most bizahhh game I've evah seen

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

With Holy Cross's win the Patriot League officially has one team with a winning record for a second straight year. :( That's obviously not good!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

https://i.imgflip.com/2mtmk8.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/2mtmk8)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

Perhaps this too??
https://hickmanlawoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/asleep-at-the-wheel.jpg

[Sader87]

Hats off to GTown's D today....but HC should have won that game by 2 TD's at least...HC offense was horrific for much of that game....

[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Did it against BC too lol

You are Beamer Ball on steroids.

[Sader87]

I think Wade played hurt....threw funny (and at GTown players) all game.

GTown lack of depth doomed them....again a scholarship issue. Hats off to them again though for going 4-2 in the league with the lack of support they have.

[Go...gate]

Army wins, 28-14. Nothing to be ashamed of by the Raiders. Army is tough and should destroy Navy. Now it's on to the FCS playoffs for Gate..

Agreed. Colgate has nothing to be ashamed of.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Fordham 17 Bucknell 14

Who's more likely to be gone after this year? Coen, Hunt or Susan?

[PAllen]

Fordham 17 Bucknell 14

Who's more likely to be gone after this year? Coen, Hunt or Susan?

Hopefully Come, but probably Hunt, though it might take a UNC type gig to get him to move

[Go...gate]

Hopefully Coen, but probably Hunt, though it might take a UNC type gig to get him to move

Don't think Hunt will leave. Did Coen save his job by beating Lafayette?

[TheValleyRaider]

Who's more likely to be gone after this year? Coen, Hunt or Susan?

Hunt's been at Colgate since 1995 (24 years) as an assistant or head man. I'd never say never if a big offer came, but what would that offer really be? I can't speak to Hunt's greater ambitions, but is something like UConn really that tempting?

[ngineer]

Don't think Hunt will leave. Did Coen save his job by beating Lafayette?

That's what everyone is waiting to see. I think Sterrett will have his annual meeting with Coen within the coming week or two and then we will know. IF a move is going to be made it will have to be very soon.

[DFW HOYA]

Who's more likely to be gone after this year? Coen, Hunt or Susan?

It's the PL, so the correct answer is "probably none."

If Hunt gets a call from UConn, you pick up the phone. He doesn't have to go, but he should take the call. For all its faults, the PL is seen as a place for up and coming coaches (Moorhead, Clawson, Lembo, etc.) so he's got that going for him.

Coen is a wild card--did he just have an off year or, like Frank Tavani, has begun to wear out his welcome?

Susan is 38-61 in the last four years. Not the place to be for a 63 year old head coach.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Hunt's been at Colgate since 1995 (24 years) as an assistant or head man. I'd never say never if a big offer came, but what would that offer really be? I can't speak to Hunt's greater ambitions, but is something like UConn really that tempting?

I'm sure he'll get some calls regarding HC and coordinator positions. UConn has come up obviously. But there's always a potential OC or DC gig at Syracuse or if Leipold leaves Buffalo plus whoever else reaches out to him.

[RichH2]

Don't think Hunt will leave. Did Coen save his job by beating Lafayette?

That's what everyone is waiting to see. I think Sterrett will have his annual meeting with Coen within the coming week or two and then we will know. IF a move is going to be made it will have to be very soon.

I wouldnt be shocked if Andy were promoted to an asst AD position by Sterrett rather than fire him.

[Go...gate]

I'm sure he'll get some calls regarding HC and coordinator positions. UConn has come up obviously. But there's always a potential OC or DC gig at Syracuse or if Leipold leaves Buffalo plus whoever else reaches out to him.

One other that just occurred to me: Rutgers. The Big Ten would be tempting, and he might very well be a good fit.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

post season awards

OPOY? Holland
DPOY? Wheeler
COY? I still lean towards Sgarlata.

I will say next year should be real interesting. Colgate will be hit VERY hard by graduation. Holy Cross is on the rise although the narrative would be different if they didn't come back from 31-5 today. Given the 2019 schedule a winning record will be tough. I trust Fordham to turn it around under Conlin. He has the support. I think Lehigh will rebound quickly with the right staff. Georgetown should actually be petty good if Johnson gets some help on offense. Bucknell and Lafayette look like complete train wrecks.

[Go...gate]

post season awards

OPOY? Holland
DPOY? Wheeler
COY? I still lean towards Sgarlata.

I will say next year should be real interesting. Colgate will be hit VERY hard by graduation. Holy Cross is on the rise although the narrative would be different if they didn't come back from 31-5 today. Given the 2019 schedule a winning record will be tough. I trust Fordham to turn it around under Conlin. He has the support. I think Lehigh could rebound quality with the right staff. Georgetown could actually be petty good if Johnson gets some help on offense. Bucknell and Lafayette look like complete train wrecks.

Colgate will be rebuilding next year. Hopefully it will be a routine thing.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Colgate will be rebuilding next year. Hopefully it will be a routine thing.

Colgate is having the type of year Lehigh could have had in 2016 with a little more refinement. The Raiders won't drop off the cliff but they're going to regress to maybe fringe Top 25. If Hunt returns they'll be the preseason favorite by default imo. I think it will be wide open. I will say with confidence the PL will have more than 1 team with a winning record in 2019. That can't go on for a 3rd year. I really think Fordham will take a big step forward in year two under Conlin. Chesney is a helluva coach but HC's schedule is insane. I know you're all about competition but you still need to win games. The HC program really could use a winning season. Georgetown likely plays a modest schedule which should give them a shot at 6 or 7 wins. I like where the Hoyas are headed with the updated facility. Lehigh will be a huge wildcard.

[Go...gate]

Colgate is having the type of year Lehigh could have had in 2016 with a little more refinement. The Raiders won't drop off the cliff but there's no NDSU or JMU in the PL right now. If Hunt returns they'll be the preseason favorite by default imo. I think it would be wide open. I will say with confidence the PL will have more than 1 team with a winning record in 2019. That can't go on for a 3rd year. I really think Fordham will take a big step forward in year two under Conlin. Chesney is a helluva coach but HC's schedule is insane. I know you're all about competition but you still need to win games. The HC program really could use a winning season. Georgetown likely plays a modest schedule which should give them a shot at 6 or 7 wins. I like where the Hoyas are headed with the updated facility. Lehigh will be a huge wildcard.

Assuming that a new coach and staff are in place, Lehigh could bounce right back to the top of the conference. It Coen returns, can the existing problems be addressed?

[ngineer]

[QUOTE=ngineer;2712431]

I wouldnt be shocked if Andy were promoted to an asst AD position by Sterrett rather than fire him.

Not shocking at all should some kind of change like that occur.

[Ivytalk]

Don't think Hunt will leave. Did Coen save his job by beating Lafayette?

That's what everyone is waiting to see. I think Sterrett will have his annual meeting with Coen within the coming week or two and then we will know. IF a move is going to be made it will have to be very soon.
Speaking of Sterrett, he’s about 65. When will he start collecting Social Security?

I probably told you, ng, that Joe came to my HS in 9th grade from Georgia and was our QB before becoming a Lehigh Lifer. He was in my class. We only overlapped for one year, because my family moved to TX that summer.

[ColgateTD]

Hunt's too straight up a guy - like Robert Mueller. He's wedded to this team and institution. Besides he's commited to these players that have been recruited. Unless he's warned incoming frosh that he might be leaving in 3-4 years, I don't see him moving on.

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=ngineer;2712431]
Speaking of Sterrett, he’s about 65. When will he start collecting Social Security?

I probably told you, ng, that Joe came to my HS in 9th grade from Georgia and was our QB before becoming a Lehigh Lifer. He was in my class. We only overlapped for one year, because my family moved to TX that summer.

Sterrett is in his lat 50s. Graduated from LU in 80.

[Southsider]

[QUOTE=Ivytalk;2712736]

Sterrett is in his lat 50s. Graduated from LU in 80.

Actually, he graduated in ‘76. So, makes him 64ish.

[ngineer]

[QUOTE=RichH2;2712999]

Actually, he graduated in ‘76. So, makes him 64ish.

Correct. Joe QB'd the team after McQuilken.