Green Bay considering starting FB

[Laker]

Green Bay could be looking at the Pioneer if they start football.

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2018/10/23/uwgb-ad-charles-guthries-first-year-football-part-future/1739232002/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I love the idea, but I'm sure University of Wisconsin has already sent the Men in Black to erase any thoughts of adding a second Division I football program in the state.

Having said that Wisc-GB football would be a complete natural for the PFL

[Laker]

I love the idea, but I'm sure University of Wisconsin has already sent the Men in Black to erase any thoughts of adding a second Division I football program in the state.

Having said that Wisc-GB football would be a complete natural for the PFL

Yes, I'm afraid that like Minnesota and Nebraska the big boys in Wisconsin don't want anyone else to share the attention.

[Silenoz]

I mean, do Pioneer League teams actually get any attention? Or any FCS team for that matter...



And what's the deal with all these programs trying to add non-schollie teams? As if our level doesn't already have enough problems with a wildly uneven field.

[Professor Chaos]

Yes, I'm afraid that like Minnesota and Nebraska the big boys in Wisconsin don't want anyone else to share the attention.
As an NDSU fan I love that mentality. :D

[Laker]

I mean, do Pioneer League teams actually get any attention? Or any FCS team for that matter...

And what's the deal with all these programs trying to add non-schollie teams? As if our level doesn't already have enough problems with a wildly uneven field.

IMO some football is better than no football. Some teams have moved from the Pioneer to scholarship football, and I'd rather have Presbyterian go there than to drop the sport. Too many schools have dropped the sport. It is a first step.

[Laker]

As an NDSU fan I love that mentality. :D

Timmy Brewster's mentality is that he didn't need to recruit the Dakotas or out state Minnesota. How anyone could name a building after Joel Maturi who gets the blame for hiring him is incredible.

[Professor Chaos]

Timmy Brewster's mentality is that he didn't need to recruit the Dakotas or out state Minnesota. How anyone could name a building after Joel Maturi who gets the blame for hiring him is incredible.
Yep, as an NDSU fan I loved Brewster... wasn't a big fan of Kill/Claeys. I'm getting more a "Brewster vibe" from the Fleck-ster.

[DFW HOYA]

In a perfect world, the Pioneer commissioner would take a regional visit to four candidate schools (UW-GB, UW-Milwaukee, Marquette, Loyola-Chicago) and pitch a three year plan:

1. Club team with recruited players, a staff of 2-3, and an eight game club schedule
2. Club team with ten game schedule, a D-III game and maybe a PFL game as well
3. Play a PFL schedule and sub-DI for the rest (the Davidson approach)

Even if one or two joined, it maintains the midwestern footprint and makes divisional play more likely.

But that would take effort and the PFL leadership is not likely to respond.

[Laker]

Yep, as an NDSU fan I loved Brewster... wasn't a big fan of Kill/Claeys. I'm getting more a "Brewster vibe" from the Fleck-ster.

Brewster couldn't have coached the Gophers to the top half of the MVFC. A carload of us went up to St. John's to watch them practice in the preseason. You could see right away why he got them out of the Twin Cities. The had no running game, and looked terrible in practice. He came over to us afterwards and started spreading it really thick.

I haven't bought into the rowing the boat yet either. Kill was a common man- I loved talking to him. Too bad about his health.

[UNHWildcat18]

Anyone else kinda sick of teams trying to move or start up at FCS? I don' think the FCS needs anymore teams.......

[dbackjon]

Anyone else kinda sick of teams trying to move or start up at FCS? I don' think the FCS needs anymore teams.......


Nope - the more football the better.

[Laker]

Anyone else kinda sick of teams trying to move or start up at FCS? I don' think the FCS needs anymore teams.......

I'd love to see Vermont bring back football. The old Yankee Conference.

[Model Citizen]

I love the idea, but I'm sure University of Wisconsin has already sent the Men in Black to erase any thoughts of adding a second Division I football program in the state.

Division level won't matter, as FCS is already considered "D2" by most people. No threat to a Big Ten program.

La Crosse, Stout, Stevens Point, Eau Claire, River Falls, Whitewater, and Platteville are all UW schools that play non-scholarship football. Green Bay would just be one more.

[Model Citizen]

Here's a more speculative PFL candidate: Dixie State University of St. George, Utah.

They are a 28-schollie D-II program. DSU is supposedly getting wooed by the D-I WAC. Football has a 10k stadium (Big Sky is out).

[Model Citizen]

It's been a long time since I've heard anything on Chicago State football. Probably for the best...

[Laker]

Here's a more speculative PFL candidate: Dixie State University of St. George, Utah.

They are a 28-schollie D-II program. DSU is supposedly getting wooed by the D-I WAC. Football has a 10k stadium (Big Sky is out).

The problem is- what FCS football conference would they join?

[Laker]

It's been a long time since I've heard anything on Chicago State football. Probably for the best...

How are they still open? Did they get more funding? And more students?

[Model Citizen]

But the president of Augustana U in South Dakota is on record that their Division I "study" is on. I look for a move up announcement within a year.

[Model Citizen]

The problem is- what FCS football conference would they join?

As with Presbyterian (and maybe Augie), I would think they'd drop scholarships and join the Pioneer.

[Laker]

But the president of Augustana U in South Dakota is on record that their Division I "study" is on. I look for a move up announcement within a year.

MSU higher ups say they are gone.

Bemidji State higher ups say they are gone.

Sioux Falls friends of mine say they are gone.

A Morningside coach told me Friday that they are gone.

It is just the timing of the announcement that is left.

[Model Citizen]

I believe D-II move ups have to be invited to a basketball conference. However, they aren't required to have a conference affiliation in football.

[Laker]

I believe D-II move ups have to be invited to a basketball conference. However, they aren't required to have a conference affiliation in football.

I think Liberty took care of that, didn't they?

Some D2 women's hockey schools moved up to D1 this year since the NCAA has no D2 hockey tournament.

[ST_Lawson]

How are they still open? Did they get more funding? And more students?

New students: http://www.csu.edu/news/documents/CSU_Enrollment_Press_Release.pdf
Funding...only as much as any state university in IL is getting. Greater than $0, but a lot less than we were getting prior to a few years ago.

How are they still open?...I don't see them closing anytime soon assuming we continue to have a state budget of some kind. I don't see how they're supporting DI athletics though. 90% of their students live off campus. They're practically a community college that offers bachelors and a few masters degrees.

EDIT - more info...
They averaged 449 people at men's home games (not technically last in DI, but close) and 167 people at women's home games (that is last in DI...they'd be somewhere in the middle of DII). Last year, combined, their Men's and Women's basketball teams went 4-58, with only two of those wins being over DI schools.
I can't see a possible football team being any better.

[JacksFan40]

Augustana, Green Bay, Presbyterian, Dixie State. Man the PFL is really trying to get bigger, going to have to force division play and maybe return to the PFL Championship Game.

[Model Citizen]

Don't know if the league is really trying to get bigger. This is a conference run by Patty V, after all. She'll deny any involvement.

There are simply a lot of schools wanting to move up to D-I and make a name for themselves in college hoops. Even the existing D-I schools know that football is America's Game...that's what Carrie Underwood told me.

[UNHWildcat18]

Nope - the more football the better.

I'd like to say I agree, but I'd rather see less teams call themselves D1 that join with stadiums under 4k that don't go fully scholarship. we have enough cupcakes at the D1 level that aren't committed, we don't need more.

I guess I sound like a P5 guy being like do we really need teams like umass moving up to FBS.....

[ST_Lawson]

I'd like to say I agree, but I'd rather see less teams call themselves D1 that join with stadiums under 4k that don't go fully scholarship. we have enough cupcakes at the D1 level that aren't committed, we don't need more.

I guess I sound like a P5 guy being like do we really need teams like umass moving up to FBS.....

I'm pretty much the same way. More fully-funded full-scholarship football...ok. More DI schools starting up non-scholarship football teams that really should be DII/DIII football teams...no.
If a school like Valpo, for example, could stay DI in most sports but have their football team at like DII...that would make more sense. I understand why they can't and why the "Dayton Rule" is in place, but I think it's dumb that a win over Valpo would count for more than a win over a DII MN State or NW Missouri State...both of which would absolutely destroy Valpo head to head.

https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=300937&oid0=8361&h=0&s1=300937&oid1=4882
https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=300937&oid0=8361&h=0&s1=300937&oid1=5684

Now if one of those two wanted to move up and bump up their budgets to DI level, either could be reasonably competitive in the MVFC (for example) in very short order. That's essentially what you saw with the Dakota teams (some more successful than others, obviously, but none of the 4 are flat-out bad teams). That I'd be ok with.

[UNHWildcat18]

I'm pretty much the same way. More fully-funded full-scholarship football...ok. More DI schools starting up non-scholarship football teams that really should be DII/DIII football teams...no.
If a school like Valpo, for example, could stay DI in most sports but have their football team at like DII...that would make more sense. I understand why they can't and why the "Dayton Rule" is in place, but I think it's dumb that a win over Valpo would count for more than a win over a DII MN State or NW Missouri State...both of which would absolutely destroy Valpo head to head.

https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=300937&oid0=8361&h=0&s1=300937&oid1=4882
https://www.masseyratings.com/game.php?s0=300937&oid0=8361&h=0&s1=300937&oid1=5684

Now if one of those two wanted to move up and bump up their budgets to DI level, either could be reasonably competitive in the MVFC (for example) in very short order. That's essentially what you saw with the Dakota teams (some more successful than others, obviously, but none of the 4 are flat-out bad teams). That I'd be ok with.

Exactly for example UNA going full scholly and wanting to build a new or expand their 10k stadium. OKAY GREAT
Merrimack, 3k stadium, probably wont use all 45 scholarships and 18 aids that NEC members use to get to 63. Is it really doing anything for the FCS to be D1...... besides adding another game for the NEC schools.
Maybe I'm a jerk for that opinion but whatever.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If we don't have more non-scholarship programs, who will the "non-scholarship" Ivies play out-of-conference?

[DFW HOYA]

If we don't have more non-scholarship programs, who will the "non-scholarship" Ivies play out-of-conference?

At this point, whoever they want. They could go even back to an eight or nine game schedule if they saw fit.

[dgtw]

The only thing I ever saw about Chicago State was something I posted when the AD threw out the idea at a meeting and I don’t think it went any further.

That AD (who was also the basketball coach) is now gone. The new AD is former Notre Dame and Chicago Beat Chris Zorich. So he might be in favor of the idea. But I agree they don’t need to do something like that and dropping athletics altogether isn’t a bad idea.


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[KnightoftheRedFlash]

Brewster couldn't have coached the Gophers to the top half of the MVFC. A carload of us went up to St. John's to watch them practice in the preseason. You could see right away why he got them out of the Twin Cities. The had no running game, and looked terrible in practice. He came over to us afterwards and started spreading it really thick.

I haven't bought into the rowing the boat yet either. Kill was a common man- I loved talking to him. Too bad about his health.

Jerry Kill always seemed like a class act.

[Thumper 76]

Division level won't matter, as FCS is already considered "D2" by most people. No threat to a Big Ten program.

La Crosse, Stout, Stevens Point, Eau Claire, River Falls, Whitewater, and Platteville are all UW schools that play non-scholarship football. Green Bay would just be one more.

Growing up in Wisconsin, you couldn’t be more wrong. There’s a reason all the UW schools with football are DIII. Many of them could damn near jump straight to FCS without having to do much of anything to their stadiums. The lack of scholarships might be what allows this to happen. If that happens it would instantly vault UWGB to the top of the Pioneer. Lots of talent in WI that leaves because there’s only one local option higher than DIII.


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[ST_Lawson]

Growing up in Wisconsin, you couldn’t be more wrong. There’s a reason all the UW schools with football are DIII. Many of them could damn near jump straight to FCS without having to do much of anything to their stadiums. The lack of scholarships might be what allows this to happen. If that happens it would instantly vault UWGB to the top of the Pioneer. Lots of talent in WI that leaves because there’s only one local option higher than DIII.


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UW-Whitewater, for example, if they were allowed to add scholarships, would probably be relevant in the MVFC the first year after the transition.
Beautiful stadium (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9d/b0/f2/9db0f220736579b97ee300de509e782b.jpg) that holds 13.5k (officially) with a record of just over 17.5k, and plenty of room to expand/add on to it. They've pretty much "maxed out" what a football program can do in DIII (6 national championships in the last 11 years, currently 8-0 this season). The school's not "huge", but it has more students than half the schools in the MVFC. Fairly centrally located between Milwaukee and Madison and not far from Chicago and Rockford.

There's others, but that's kinda the most "obvious" example.

We're a big beneficiary of Wisconsin talent leaving for nearby schools. For example...most MVFC team fans are familiar with our QB Sean McGuire (from Franklin, WI...35 miles from Whitewater) and our WR Isaiah Lesure (Mt. Horeb, WI...55 miles from Whitewater). Not saying we couldn't have still gotten them here, but throw in a quality MVFC team less than an hour from both of those guys...idk if they come to Western. I know NDSU (and probably most of the Dakota schools) get a lot of players from Wisconsin.

I don't know if the UW system would even let them have football at all...they don't want another DI program in the state...no matter the subdivision or level of scholarships.

[TheKingpin28]

Growing up in Wisconsin, you couldn’t be more wrong. There’s a reason all the UW schools with football are DIII. Many of them could damn near jump straight to FCS without having to do much of anything to their stadiums. The lack of scholarships might be what allows this to happen. If that happens it would instantly vault UWGB to the top of the Pioneer. Lots of talent in WI that leaves because there’s only one local option higher than DIII.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI thought one of them was D2?

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[Thumper 76]

I thought one of them was D2?

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When you find which one that is let me know xlolx


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[AmsterBison]

I wish Marquette would bring back football.

[Model Citizen]

Oshkosh and La Crosse were briefly D-II in the 1970s.

[Thumper 76]

Oshkosh and La Crosse were briefly D-II in the 1970s.

Off the top of my head the ones that should be at least DII but probably FCS are Oshkosh, La Crosse, Whitewater, and Eau Claire. The rest of the UWs (with football) could be DII pretty easy as well. 0% chance that Madison would allow any more DI programs in the state than they already have for b-ball competition, never mind football.


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[dbackjon]

I thought one of them was D2?

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UW-Parkside is D2, but they don't have football.

[Bluefish845]

St. Lawson: "They've pretty much "maxed out" what a football program can do in DIII (6 national championships in the last 11 years, currently 8-0 this season)." Interesting choice of words here and reminds me of a similar team in the FCS.....

[TheKingpin28]

UW-Parkside is D2, but they don't have football.Ok that's what I was thinking. Wasn't aware they didn't have football.

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[ST_Lawson]

St. Lawson: "They've pretty much "maxed out" what a football program can do in DIII (6 national championships in the last 11 years, currently 8-0 this season)." Interesting choice of words here and reminds me of a similar team in the FCS.....

Yes, essentially they're the NDSU of D3.
If it weren't for the UW system not allowing them to have scholarship football, they'd probably be FCS by now. With NDSU it's geographic limitations (mostly) keeping them at this level. Only close conferences are P5 and they're not jumping straight to that level. Also Fargo isn't a big enough media market to move the needle for most FBS conferences.


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