AGS Poll Results - WEEK 8 POLL - 2018 SEASON

[AGSPoll]

10/22/2018

Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes
Previous Wk.


1
North Dakota State Bison
2175
87
1


2
James Madison Dukes
2039

3


3
UC Davis Aggies
1907

5


4
Kennesaw State Owls
1867

4


5
Towson Tigers
1766

8


6
Eastern Washington Eagles
1695

7


7
Weber State Wildcats
1606

10


8
Elon Phoenix
1487

12


9
Illinois State Redbirds
1418

6


10
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
1401

2


11
Stony Brook Seawolves
1266

16


12
Wofford Terriers
1253

14


13
Colgate Raiders
1054

15


14
Northern Iowa Panthers
1031

23


15
Central Arkansas Bears
848

18


16
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
746

24


17
Princeton Tigers
703

19


18
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
624

26


19
McNeese State Cowboys
493

11


20
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
466

9


21
Dartmouth Big Green
391

27


22
Idaho State Bengals
390

21


23
Maine Black Bears
297

13


24
Nicholls State Colonels
280

25


25
North Carolina A&T Aggies
236

28

















ORV:





26
Rhode Island Rams
196

17


27
East Tennessee State Buccaneers
184

20


28
Chattanooga Mocs
141

31


29
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
89

NR


30
Incarnate Word Cardinals
53

NR


31
Western Illinois Leathernecks
46

37


32
Montana State Bobcats
41

30


33
Florida A&M Rattlers
33

33


34
Missouri State Bears
13

29


35
Sam Houston State Bearkats
10

22


36T
Abilene Christian Wildcats
7

NR


36T
Murray State Racers
7

NR


36T
Samford Bulldogs
7

NR


39
Yale Bulldogs
5

NR


40
Monmouth Hawks
3

NR










Most Significant Win:

Northern Iowa Panthers




Most Significant Loss:

Jacksonville State Gamecocks

























Fell Out Of Poll:





34
Furman Paladins





36
Montana Grizzlies





35
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks





32
South Dakota Coyotes

[JSUSoutherner]

20? The ****?

[TheKingpin28]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Towson Tigers
7: Weber State Wildcats
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Idaho State Bengals
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Maine Black Bears
23: Rhode Island Rams
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Biggest Win: UNI
Biggest Loss: JSU

I moved EWU ahead of WSU due to the QB situation with the season ending injury. This is one the first polls that I was not pleased with.

A few notes:

-I still don't understand why people are ragging on ISUo
-ISUr is not a T10 team as of right now
-SDSU at 10 is a complete shocker and above UNI is even more puzzling
-What has Colgate done to warrant #13

[RootinFerDukes]

I think the previous week column is not listed correctly.

[Prime Power]

Hello Prime Power,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 10:42:54

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Elon Phoenix
7: Towson Tigers
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Northern Iowa Panthers
12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
13: Stony Brook Seawolves
14: Princeton Tigers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: Idaho State Bengals
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: Dartmouth Big Green
20: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Florida A&M Rattlers

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Ha!

[Professor Chaos]

Here's the blog post for this week's poll: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-8-top-25-results/



A few thoughts:



Why so high on Central Arkansas? The only team they've beaten to this point that's getting any votes in this AGS poll is Murray State (#36T - 7 points) and it's not like they're blowing teams out Kennesaw St stype. Their FCS loss is to now #35 SHSU. I can see ranking them in the 20s but 15?
Why so low (still!) on Idaho St? Their only FCS loss is in OT on the road to the consensus #3 team (they had a chip shot FG miss that would've won it also) and they beat the consensus #18 team on the road. Are they being punished for losing 2 FBS games?

I was expecting it but I'm still disappointed that SDSU is above UNI. I'd be interested to to hear the justification voters have for that.

[JSUSoutherner]

1. NDSU
2. JMU
3. Kennesaw
4. UC Davis
5. Towson
6. EWU
7. ISUr
8. Weber State
9. UNI
10. Wofford
11. Stony Brook
12. Elon
13. Colgate
14. SDSU
15. Princeton
16. Idaho State
17. Delaware
18. UND
19. UCA
20. ETSU
21. Incarnate Word
22. Dartmouth
23. Chattanooga
24. McNeese
25. FAMU

Win: UNI
Loss: Jax State

[Reign of Terrier]

I think the previous week column is not listed correctly.

Yeah, because it shows 0 movement.

[dbackjon]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State but not SEMO - please explain yourselves - that is a big oversight

[Professor Chaos]

Here's my crack at it (in parentheseis is the difference my rank is from the consensus)

1: North Dakota State Bison (-)
2: James Madison Dukes (-)
3: Towson Tigers (+2)
4: UC Davis Aggies (-1)
5: Elon Phoenix (+3)
6: Kennessaw State Owls (-2)
7: Eastern Washington Eagles (-1)
8: Stony Brook Seawolves (+3)
9: Illinois State Redbirds (-)
10: Weber State Wildcats (-3)
11: Colgate Raiders (+2)
12: Idaho State Bengals (+10)
13: Northern Iowa Panthers (+1)
14: Dartmouth Big Green (+7)
15: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (-5)
16: Delaware Fightin Blue Hens (-)
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (+1)
18: Princeton Tigers (-1)
19: Wofford Terriers (-7)
20: McNeese State Cowboys (-1)
21: Nicholls State Colonels (+3)
22: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (+7)
23: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (-3)
24: Central Arkansas Bears (-9)
25: Maine Black Bears (-2)

[RootinFerDukes]

Here's the blog post for this week's poll: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-8-top-25-results/



A few thoughts:


Why so high on Central Arkansas? The only team they've beaten to this point that's getting any votes in this AGS poll is Murray State (#36T - 7 points) and it's not like they're blowing teams out Kennesaw St stype. Their FCS loss is to now #35 SHSU. I can see ranking them in the 20s but 15?
Why so low (still!) on Idaho St? Their only FCS loss is in OT on the road to the consensus #3 team (they had a chip shot FG miss that would've won it also) and they beat the consensus #18 team on the road. Are they being punished for losing 2 FBS games?
I was expecting it but I'm still disappointed that SDSU is above UNI. I'd be interested to to hear the justification voters have for that.



2 losses vs 3 losses? Granted if their FBS game wasn't cancelled, both could be 3 losses and voters wouldn't give them as much leniency.

[JSUSoutherner]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State but not SEMO - please explain yourselves - that is a big oversight
Those that voted for Jacksonville State or SEMO- please explain yourselves- that is the dumbest **** I've ever seen.

[TheKingpin28]

2 losses vs 3 losses? Granted if their FBS game wasn't cancelled, both could be 3 losses and voters wouldn't give them as much leniency.

Head to Head and if you watched them both play ISUb, you'd be in agreement that there is no logical reason for SDSU to be above UNI.

[Reign of Terrier]

Jacksonville State and Maine don't deserve to be ranked. We're at the point in the season where 3 total losses looks bad and 2 FCS losses is questionable, pending on who they are to and in what manner (for example, SDSU still deserves ranking).

That's not to say that 2 FCS/3 total losses are always bad, but that if those teams are truly of high quality, they'll make their way back in the poll in the final 2 weeks when they finish 7-4/8-3

[McNeese72]

Y'all are fricking crazy keeping McNeese in the poll. We will be lucky to win another game this season as long as our offense and our offensive line is MIA.

Doc

[Professor Chaos]

2 losses vs 3 losses? Granted if their FBS game wasn't cancelled, both could be 3 losses and voters wouldn't give them as much leniency.
Yeah, that's gotta be the justification but it's just lazy reasoning IMO. UNI played Iowa who's now ranked around 16th in the FBS polls I believe. They shouldn't be punished for that loss. If voters think that SDSU would've beaten Iowa St had that game been played maybe they can justify it in their own heads but that's very shaky reasoning to begin with and SDSU isn't doing much right now to back that up.

[Prime Power]

Here's the blog post for this week's poll: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-week-8-top-25-results/



A few thoughts:



Why so high on Central Arkansas? The only team they've beaten to this point that's getting any votes in this AGS poll is Murray State (#36T - 7 points) and it's not like they're blowing teams out Kennesaw St stype. Their FCS loss is to now #35 SHSU. I can see ranking them in the 20s but 15?
Why so low (still!) on Idaho St? Their only FCS loss is in OT on the road to the consensus #3 team (they had a chip shot FG miss that would've won it also) and they beat the consensus #18 team on the road. Are they being punished for losing 2 FBS games?

I was expecting it but I'm still disappointed that SDSU is above UNI. I'd be interested to to hear the justification voters have for that.


Because who below them is more deserving other than Idaho State? They all have flaws.

[dbackjon]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State or SEMO- please explain yourselves- that is the dumbest **** I've ever seen.


When you get to lower 10, SEMO's resume isn't too different than others, crabby.

[grizband]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Towson Tigers
7: Weber State Wildcats
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Idaho State Bengals
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Maine Black Bears
23: Rhode Island Rams
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Biggest Win: UNI
Biggest Loss: JSU

I moved EWU ahead of WSU due to the QB situation with the season ending injury. This is one the first polls that I was not pleased with.

A few notes:

-I still don't understand why people are ragging on ISUo
-ISUr is not a T10 team as of right now
-SDSU at 10 is a complete shocker and above UNI is even more puzzling
-What has Colgate done to warrant #13
Possible explanations (though I don't necessarily agree):
1. ISUo doesn't have name recognition to overcome to FBS losses. Conversely, a victory over Liberty and a 5-2 record would have vaulted them up the poll.

2. I had Illinois State ranked number 10, mostly NDSU is that good and losing to them won't penalize a team too far.

3. SDSU and UNI are both difficult to rank: SDSU has a good record, but no significant wins; UNI has a worse record but a win over SDSU.

4. Colgate is ranked that high likely because they are undefeated.

[Professor Chaos]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State or SEMO- please explain yourselves- that is the dumbest **** I've ever seen.
Because I think they're both better than FAMU or Chattanooga.

[JSUSoutherner]

When you get to lower 10, SEMO's resume isn't too different than others, crabby.
They lost to EKU and only beat the worst team in the Valley by 4. I had NO issues finding better teams.


EKU fired their OC this morning.

[Professor Chaos]

Because who below them is more deserving other than Idaho State? They all have flaws.
I'm saying there's plenty of teams above them that are less deserving than Idaho St. I have them at #12 right now.

[Reign of Terrier]

Colgate deserves their high ranking because they've only allowed 23 points scored on them all year.

I know that's a weak schedule they play, but that's impressive. Bama dominates but doesn't always shut out non-SEC opponents.

[TheKingpin28]

Possible explanations (though I don't necessarily agree):
1. ISUo doesn't have name recognition to overcome to FBS losses. Conversely, a victory over Liberty and a 5-2 record would have vaulted them up the poll.

2. I had Illinois State ranked number 10, mostly NDSU is that good and losing to them won't penalize a team too far.

3. SDSU and UNI are both difficult to rank: SDSU has a good record, but no significant wins; UNI has a worse record but a win over SDSU.

4. Colgate is ranked that high likely because they are undefeated.

For reference I had, last week:

ISUo: 13
ISUr: 12
SDSU: 2
UNI: 22
Gate: 19

I thought I was being generous with ISUr at 12, and yet for some reason, people thought they were borderline T5. If people watched that game, NDSU decided not to show up in the 2nd half, and Klieman took his foot off the gas. It wasn't really a game until he stopped playing. I will admit, I was WAY too high on SDSU, but that came from how well they played NDSU on the road. I had UNI in, since they always play a T5 schedule each year and somehow finish .500 or slightly better/worse. Colgate I thought was fair at 19 since they at least leave the Patriot League and sought out, what was supposed to be, a tough/decent CAA schedule and Furman (weather sucks).

[Prime Power]

I'm saying there's plenty of teams above them that are less deserving than Idaho St. I have them at #12 right now.

My bad, I forgot to highlight your view on Central Arkansas. I was saying who is below UCA that is more deserving to be ranked higher than UCA other than Idaho State? I don't see any resumes that are any better than UCA from 15-30.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think the previous week column is not listed correctly.

Ah crap, I made some fixes and forgot to do that resort.

I think it is fixed now.

[ST_Lawson]

Yeah, that's gotta be the justification but it's just lazy reasoning IMO. UNI played Iowa who's now ranked around 16th in the FBS polls I believe. They shouldn't be punished for that loss. If voters think that SDSU would've beaten Iowa St had that game been played maybe they can justify it in their own heads but that's very shaky reasoning to begin with and SDSU isn't doing much right now to back that up.

And considering how SDSU started off the game...forced to punt, gave up a TD on Iowa State's first drive...it didn't look like the kind of game where you were going to see an FBS upset. It seems like in most instances of that, the FCS team starts off strong and holds off the FBS team enough in the second half. SDSU didn't start of strong. Not saying they couldn't have pulled off the upset, but it sure didn't seem likely the way the game had started.

[Daytripper]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Central Arkansas Bears
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: Idaho State Bengals
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Nicholls State Colonels
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

The Most Significant Win: Incarnate Word Cardinals
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

[JSUSoutherner]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Central Arkansas Bears
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: Idaho State Bengals
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Nicholls State Colonels
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

The Most Significant Win: Incarnate Word Cardinals
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

Explain yourself.

[Daytripper]

Explain yourself.

This is my poll.

[Professor Chaos]

My bad, I forgot to highlight your view on Central Arkansas. I was saying who is below UCA that is more deserving to be ranked higher than UCA other than Idaho State? I don't see any resumes that are any better than UCA from 15-30.
Well, to name a few I'll go with Wofford, SDSU, UND, McNeese, and Jacksonville St. I'd also argue them over Dartmouth and Princeton but at least there you can make a decent counter-argument.

[Thumper 76]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Central Arkansas Bears
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: Idaho State Bengals
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Nicholls State Colonels
20: Incarnate Word Cardinals
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

The Most Significant Win: Incarnate Word Cardinals
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

How in the blue hell do you have SDSU at 9 and UNI at 25?!?!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSUSoutherner]

This is my poll.
It's real bad.

[Daytripper]

It's real bad.

I don't really give a **** that you think so.

[Preferred Walk-On]

They lost to EKU and only beat the worst team in the Valley by 4. I had NO issues finding better teams.

EKU fired their OC this morning.

Beat me to it.

Hello Preferred Walk-On:

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 15:50:10.

Your vote is listed below. (Last week's rank is denoted in parentheses.)

1: North Dakota State Bison (1) - Self explanatory.

2: James Madison Dukes (3) - Bye, but moved up a slot due to South Dakota State loss.

3: UC-Davis Aggies (4) - Continued winning AND dominated Cal Poly similarly to North Dakota State and Eastern Washington (with Gage Gubrud). Moved up a spot due to the SDSU vacancy.

4: Towson Tigers (5) - Took care of business again. Best win to date is still Stony Brook (see explanation provided in Week 6 for why Towson is just behind UC-Davis, if you care).

5: Kennesaw State Owls (6) - Didn't lose. Didn't win either. See SDSU vacancy for moving up one spot.

6: Weber State Wildcats (12) - Beat Eastern Washington last week, and did not have a letdown this week. Just needed to see two games removed from the Northern Arizona debacle before moving above EWU.

7: Eastern Washington Eagles (9) - Fell behind Weber State, but only because they did not play (and Weber State took care of business and won the head-to-head).

8: Elon Phoenix (10) - Took care of Richmond, although not as handily as others have. Kept above Northern Iowa and South Dakota State due to the equity built up with a win over James Madison.

9: Northern Iowa Panthers (15) - If Northern Iowa does not lose to Montana, where would they be? Not counting the game at Iowa, Northern Iowa has really only played three bad quarters of football this year. And yes, they should be ranked above Northern Arizona. ;)

10: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (2) - Cannot say I am surprised with Northern Iowa's victory over South Dakota State (especially in Cedar Falls). Looks like another second round playoff game for the Jackrabbits in the FargoDome could be looming if they don't show up at Illinois State.

11: Idaho State Bengals (13) - Played FBS Liberty very tough. Moved up two spots due to Illinois State loss and Jacksonville State vacancy.

12: Illinois State Redbirds (7) - I know the final score @ North Dakota State was 14-28, but at 28-0, the Bison put it on cruise control. Illinois State will still be a tough out for whoever draws them, and #10 and #12 may get swapped (and then some) pending next week's outcome.

13: Stony Brook Seawolves (14) - Manhandled Rhode Island, but only moved up one spot, as this voter did not have Rhode Island even ranked last week (and quite honestly was not sure why Rhode Island was even in the Top 25, let alone #17, in last week's AGS poll...cough, first game of season, cough, Delaware debacle).

14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (16) - Only losses were Washington (FBS) and Idaho State (ranked #21 in last week's AGS Poll despite taking #5 AGS-ranked UC-Davis to the limit). After Idaho State loss, UND has manhandled three straight opponents the way a Top 15 team should. If they are for real, then they should get to 8-3, even with a loss to Weber State, which is nowhere close to a given at this point.

15: McNeese State Cowboys (11) - Incarnate Word? This voter will likely get dinged for only dropping McNeese State to #15, but was the highest ranked Southland team previously. Although other Southland teams moved ever-so-slightly up the rankings, could not really justify dropping McNeese State below them...yet.

16: Nicholls State Colonels (18) - Moved up due to vacancies, but they also were on Bye.

17: Central Arkansas Bears (23) - Took care of business (which cannot be said for a number of Top 25 teams this week). Next up...McNeese State, Lamar, and Incarnate Word. The next few weeks will clarify the Southland.

18: Montana State Bobcats (17) - I agree with most AGS posters that Montana State does not really have an outstanding win. They don't have an outstanding loss either. They only lost to Weber State by 10 (tied after the 3rd quarter), and I am keeping them in the poll until after the Idaho State game next week, as they did not warrant a drop. Hell, Montana got Top 25 ranking even after losing to two common opponents, including Portland State, so I think Montana State can have a stay of execution.

19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (8) - Jacksonville State still ranked?...Southeast Missouri State not? Saw a lot of discussion about this in last week's AGS Poll Results thread (not sure why there) after I submitted my poll. The general synopsis by AGS posters: Southeast Missouri State could/should be ranked and Jacksonville State should not (either option for SEMO, as long as JSU is not ranked). Well, I respectfully disagree. Not one, not two, but three common opponents thus far (Eastern Kentucky, Tennessee Tech, and Austin Peay). SEMO is 2-1 vs these three, whereas JSU is 3-0. Furthermore, JSU's victories over these opponents have been more convincing. I think I remember some discussion about teams occasionally being forgiven for having a bad game. Head-to-head is great, but I think we have graduated to the point in the season where the body of work also matters. So one rebuts with "JSU's body of work sucks" and they have not beaten anybody. Well, SEMO not only lost to EKU (JSU beat them 56-7), but they also beat Southern Illinois by only 4 points (while giving up 44 points to the Salukis). That was actually the deciding factor for me (SIU is just plain bad this year). Furthermore, if JSU reduces the 9 turnovers in their two losses, perhaps we are talking about an undefeated team (I know, "if ifs and buts were candies and nuts...")? This voter has no problem if people dropped JSU out, a slight problem if SEMO is ranked (given they did not even receive a single vote in last week's poll), and disagrees that SEMO jumps JSU...at least yet. Too bad SEMO does not play Kennesaw State to really prove something, and if JSU wins that matchup, will there be any AGS retractions...asking for a friend. ;)

20: Wofford Terriers (NR) - Nice recovery after last week. Wofford re-enters this voter's poll, and East Tennessee State drops out (basically a swap).

21: Colgate Raiders (21) - Same story every week. Keep winning (or in this case, not losing), and you get to stay.

22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (NR) - After a rough start to the season (Rhode Island loss), have beaten everyone on schedule not named North Dakota State. Even though Delaware beat New Hampshire this past weekend, warranted move into Top 25 due to vacancies. Showdown with Towson next.

23: Dartmouth Big Green (25) - Still undefeated, but also still untested.

24: Princeton Tigers (NR) - See Dartmouth above.

25: Incarnate Word Cardinals (NR) - This spot was difficult. Considered Southeast Missouri State, Monmouth, Florida A&M, East Tennessee State, Samford, Mercer, and even Alcorn State. Yikes! Gave the nod to Incarnate Word, as their win was probably the biggest upset of the group above. Really, clenz probably summed this choice up best with his pointed response to the NAU/UNI thread last week.

Most significant win: Northern Iowa Panthers - Just finished taking two of three games vs. the Dakotas, with really only one bad quarter of football in that stretch. This win was huge for helping to ensure 7 DI wins, as well as garnering a signature FCS win.

Most significant loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks - Talk of JSU's inflated ranking became justified with this loss. Also, a top 8 seed (even if it was previously based on reputation only) now appears to be lost.

Which conference does your team play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[dewey]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State but not SEMO - please explain yourselves - that is a big oversight

I bet it is simply name recognition. I have SEMO above JSU.

Dewey

[ST_Lawson]

How in the blue hell do you have SDSU at 9 and UNI at 25?!?!?

This is your mind on drugs...

[dewey]

Yeah, that's gotta be the justification but it's just lazy reasoning IMO. UNI played Iowa who's now ranked around 16th in the FBS polls I believe. They shouldn't be punished for that loss. If voters think that SDSU would've beaten Iowa St had that game been played maybe they can justify it in their own heads but that's very shaky reasoning to begin with and SDSU isn't doing much right now to back that up.

I would understand the argument of SDSU being higher because of the Montana loss for UNI but SDSU had a game against Indiana State in which they barely escaped.

Dewey

[JSUSoutherner]

I don't really give a **** that you think so.
SDSU at 9 and UNI at 25?

Surely you at least have the ESPN app downloaded.

[Thumper 76]

SDSU at 9 and UNI at 25?

Surely you at least have the ESPN app downloaded.

Has to be a troll post. Has to be. Otherwise he’s 100% slot voting and couldn’t justify moving SDSU down that many slots when he didn’t have UNI in at all......


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[Prime Power]

Well, to name a few I'll go with Wofford, SDSU, UND, McNeese, and Jacksonville St. I'd also argue them over Dartmouth and Princeton but at least there you can make a decent counter-argument.

Well uhhh ummm Wofford and SDSU are already ranked ahead of them so not sure what you mean? UND yeah maybe that's debatable. JSU has 2 FCS losses to UCA 1. McNeese lol...no, guess we will find out this weekend. Dartmouth who knows.....Princeton I have higher so yeah.

- - - Updated - - -


Has to be a troll post. Has to be. Otherwise he’s 100% slot voting and couldn’t justify moving SDSU down that many slots when he didn’t have UNI in at all......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bingo

[dewey]

Let's take a look at the schedule so far from UNI and SDSU.

SDSU 4-2 (No FBS game)
@ Iowa State - game cancelled due to severe weather.
Montana State - W 45-14
Arkansas-Pine Bluff W 90-6
@ NDSU L 21-17
Indiana State W 54-51 OT
Youngstown State W 36-7
@ UNI L 24-9

Northern Iowa 4-3 (1 FBS loss)
@ Montana L 26-23
@ Iowa L 38-14
Hampton W 44-0
@ Indiana State W 33-0
NDSU L 56-31
@ South Dakota W 42-28
SDSU W 24-9

I could understand an argument for each team being ahead of the other one but they should be within a couple of spots within each other. Anything else seems wrong IMHO.

Dewey

[JSUSoutherner]

19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (8) - Jacksonville State still ranked?...Southeast Missouri State not? Saw a lot of discussion about this in last week's AGS Poll Results thread (not sure why there) after I submitted my poll. The general synopsis by AGS posters: Southeast Missouri State could/should be ranked and Jacksonville State should not (either option for SEMO, as long as JSU is not ranked). Well, I respectfully disagree. Not one, not two, but three common opponents thus far (Eastern Kentucky, Tennessee Tech, and Austin Peay). SEMO is 2-1 vs these three, whereas JSU is 3-0. Furthermore, JSU's victories over these opponents have been more convincing. I think I remember some discussion about teams occasionally being forgiven for having a bad game. Head-to-head is great, but I think we have graduated to the point in the season where the body of work also matters. So one rebuts with "JSU's body of work sucks" and they have not beaten anybody. Well, SEMO not only lost to EKU (JSU beat them 56-7), but they also beat Southern Illinois by only 4 points (while giving up 44 points to the Salukis). That was actually the deciding factor for me (SIU is just plain bad this year). Furthermore, if JSU reduces the 9 turnovers in their two losses, perhaps we are talking about an undefeated team (I know, "if ifs and buts were candies and nuts...")? This voter has no problem if people dropped JSU out, a slight problem if SEMO is ranked (given they did not even receive a single vote in last week's poll), and disagrees that SEMO jumps JSU...at least yet. Too bad SEMO does not play Kennesaw State to really prove something, and if JSU wins that matchup, will there be any AGS retractions...asking for a friend. ;)


You clearly did your homework but I have to ask, when you were pouring over the stats from our SEMO and NC A&T match ups did you happen to notice our rushing numbers?

Go check them out again you'll see the turnovers aren't our only issue.

[Professor Chaos]

Well uhhh ummm Wofford and SDSU are already ranked ahead of them so not sure what you mean? UND yeah maybe that's debatable. JSU has 2 FCS losses to UCA 1. McNeese lol...no, guess we will find out this weekend. Dartmouth who knows.....Princeton I have higher so yeah.
Sorry, I meant those are teams ranked ahead of Idaho St that should be behind them IMO.

As for teams ranked behind UCA that should be ahead of them I'd say Delaware, UND, and Dartmouth for sure (in addition to Idaho St). I'd also argue Princeton at this point as well. There are still several others I ranked ahead of them (McNeese, Nicholls, Jacksonville St, SEMO) as well that I think are too close to call right now so I think you could justify them as high as 20 or 21 but that's about it.

[Preferred Walk-On]

You clearly did your homework but I have to ask, when you were pouring over the stats from our SEMO and NC A&T match ups did you happen to notice our rushing numbers?

Go check them out again you'll see the turnovers aren't our only issue.

I did, and the rushing numbers for SEMO (and NC A&T, I had to go and check this one) were bad. I don't care who you are, 5 turnovers makes it terribly difficult to win a game. Just thought it was interesting that the two losses were games in which JSU could not hang on to the ball.

But as a Bison fan, I also understand that turnovers are not the only issue and a rushing game can be very important (even deadly with a good defense), but JSU did have 27 first downs to SEMO's 15 and 422 yd to SEMO's 289. This discrepancy is often only neutralized by turnovers and/or lack of TOP (lack of rushing). So if turnovers were not the issue in these two games, does JSU win either or both of them (asking someone who would know, as I only saw the NC A&T game and not the SEMO game)? Without turnovers, is JSU a Top 25 team? Top 20? I think it is difficult to argue that turnovers are in a team's DNA, but two games of TOs can happen.

The flip side is "Is SEMO really a Top 25 team?" That is why I reasoned through it the way I did.

[Preferred Walk-On]

For what it's worth, JSU did drop 11 spots in my poll.

[POD Knows]

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 9:57:32

Your vote is listed below.
() AGS POLL

1: North Dakota State Bison (1)
2: James Madison Dukes (2)
3: UC Davis Aggies (3)
4: Towson Tigers(5)
5: Kennesaw State Owls (4)
6: Eastern Washington Eagles (6)
7: Weber State Wildcats (7)
8: Elon Phoenix(8)
9: Illinois State Redbirds (9)
10: Northern Iowa Panthers (14)
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (10)
12: Stony Brook Seawolves (11)
13: Colgate Raiders (13)
14: Wofford Terriers (12)
15: Central Arkansas Bears (15)
16: Idaho State Bengals (22)
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (18)
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (16)
19: Princeton Tigers (17)
20: Western Illinois Leathernecks (31)
21: Chattanooga Mocs (28)
22: Incarnate Word Cardinals (30)
23: McNeese State Cowboys (19)
24: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks (34)
25: Florida A&M Rattlers (33)

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Incarnate Word Cardinals
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[UNDBIZ]

I moved EWU ahead of WSU due to the QB situation with the season ending injury. This is one the first polls that I was not pleased with.

WSU's #2 QB getting hurt made you move them down?

[RootinFerDukes]

Sorry to keep pointing things out Ursus, but this looks suspect to me in terms of their rank last week:



35
Sam Houston State Bearkats
10

NR


36T
Abilene Christian Wildcats
7

22

[POD Knows]

Those that voted for Jacksonville State or SEMO- please explain yourselves- that is the dumbest **** I've ever seen.I got SEMO in mine because there is nobody behind them that deserves and they bitch slapped a top 15 team (allegedly)

[POD Knows]

Jacksonville State and Maine don't deserve to be ranked. We're at the point in the season where 3 total losses looks bad and 2 FCS losses is questionable, pending on who they are to and in what manner (for example, SDSU still deserves ranking).

That's not to say that 2 FCS/3 total losses are always bad, but that if those teams are truly of high quality, they'll make their way back in the poll in the final 2 weeks when they finish 7-4/8-3This, I dropped both Maine and JSU out of mine.

[Sammy94]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Weber State Wildcats
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Colgate Raiders
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: North Carolina A&T Aggies
20: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Dartmouth Big Green
23: Idaho State Bengals
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Maine Black Bears

Sammy94

The Most Significant Win: Stony Brook Seawolves
The Most Significant Loss: McNeese State Cowboys
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southland Conference

[TheKingpin28]

WSU's #2 QB getting hurt made you move them down?

Considering their starter, Constantine, had 3 picks and only 167 yards and was struggling the entire game, yeah, it makes sense. Jenks is the better athlete as he is more of a dual threat but Constantine is more of a pocket passer. He has only thrown 816yds in 6 games. That is not going to work when their opponents have damn near the double passing offense and WSU only has 934 rushing yds in 7 games.

[POD Knows]

I am just throwing this out, why in the **** is NCAT ahead of FAMU in this poll?

[TheKingpin28]

I am just throwing this out, why in the **** is NCAT ahead of FAMU in this poll?

Cause JSU xcoffeex

[Professor Chaos]

14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds

Alright, I'm going to pick on you for this one. Both these teams have 3 point losses to teams that aren't awful but are teams they probably should've beaten but Illinois St also has a convincing FBS win and I'd argue more impressive wins otherwise as well. What's the reasoning for UCA being above them? I think it's a little unfair to punish Illinois St for having an extra FCS loss when they played the unanimous #1 team in the FCS right now when UCA hasn't played a team that is currently ranked yet.


I am just throwing this out, why in the **** is NCAT ahead of FAMU in this poll?
It was like that last week too in the ORV. I guess you could make the argument that A&T's two quality wins over JSU and East Carolina are better than FAMU's one quality win over A&T. But there's a 200 point spread between FAMU and A&T so it seems like A&T is getting a lot more benefit of the doubt than FAMU is getting.

[POD Knows]

Cause JSU xcoffeexYea, good one, it is lazy BS, I am not saying that FAMU necessarily needs to be in the top 25 but my guess is a lot of people never look past the 25 or 30 teams in their "queue'. The JSU loss to SEMO hurts NCAT and I am sure you probably agree with that.

[TheKingpin28]

Yea, good one, it is lazy BS, I am not saying that FAMU necessarily needs to be in the top 25 but my guess is a lot of people never look past the 25 or 30 teams in their "queue'. The JSU loss to SEMO hurts NCAT and I am sure you probably agree with that.

As it should, but I have to believe that people remembered that they beat JSU and that was a "good enough reason" to vote for them. I don't know why people would think that and I am not saying FAMU is T25 material, but there is no way in hell with that ugly loss to Morgan St that NCAT deserves to be ranked. I kept both of them out but on my watchlist as I believe, should the bubble continue to collapse, one of them, and dear god, do I say both of them, could find a way in to the T25 if they win out.

[JSUSoutherner]

Lol @ people saying JSU Is bad and then labeling them as a quality win for SEMO and A&T.

[Professor Chaos]

Lol @ people saying JSU Is bad and then labeling them as a quality win for SEMO and A&T.
I'm sure you disagree but I don't think JSU is as bad as those of you who dropped them out of the T25 are claiming. As far as I can tell turnovers sealed their fate in both their losses this year. They look to me like a top 10 team talent wise who doesn't know how to take care of the ball consistently so they can beat almost anyone in the country and also lose to a lot of teams they should wipe the field with.

FWIW I had SEMO on my watchlist of 15 teams outside my poll ballot last week (same place I had NC A&T both last week and this week) so I don't think JSU's 2 losses are that awful but they don't have anything in terms of wins to prop themselves up with. I have SEMO at #22 and JSU at #23 this week. I can see the argument against ranking them but you really don't need to be "that good" to get into that 20-25 range IMO.

[MSUBobcat]

Considering their starter, Constantine, had 3 picks and only 167 yards and was struggling the entire game, yeah, it makes sense. Jenks is the better athlete as he is more of a dual threat but Constantine is more of a pocket passer. He has only thrown 816yds in 6 games. That is not going to work when their opponents have damn near the double passing offense and WSU only has 934 rushing yds in 7 games.

As bad as Constantine was/is, Jenks is not a dual threat QB. He averages 30.8 yards/game of TOTAL OFFENSE, with a whopping 2.7 yards/rush and 2.4 yards/pass attempt. In fact, BBQ doesn't have much of an offense in any aspect. 266 yards/game isn't going to get it done against many playoff teams. They managed 250 yards against USD, who dropped out of the poll altogether, and 275 against a Gubrud-less EWU (one could assume at least a few less yards due to EWU holding the ball longer if Gubrud was available). Nuts and bolts of it is.... if you're basing ANY of Weber's ranking on it's offense, they shouldn't be in your top 20. The defense is fairly stout however.

Next week will show if WSU is a paper tiger, IMO. They benefitted BIGLY by Gubrud not playing. Instead of moving up a few spots by beating EWU, they would have fallen to 18-20 after being boat raced. WSU's 2 biggest tests remaining are on the road (UND and ISU-o). I can see a team in everyone's top 10 not even making the playoffs after finishing 7-4. They only beat the Bobcats by 10 and our QB play is f'ing pathetic. The only thing the defense doesn't know is.... which way is Troy running it.

[F'N Hawks]

As bad as Constantine was/is, Jenks is not a dual threat QB. He averages 30.8 yards/game of TOTAL OFFENSE, with a whopping 2.7 yards/rush and 2.4 yards/pass attempt. In fact, BBQ doesn't have much of an offense in any aspect. 266 yards/game isn't going to get it done against many playoff teams. They managed 250 yards against USD, who dropped out of the poll altogether, and 275 against a Gubrud-less EWU (one could assume at least a few less yards due to EWU holding the ball longer if Gubrud was available). Nuts and bolts of it is.... if you're basing ANY of Weber's ranking on it's offense, they shouldn't be in your top 20. The defense is fairly stout however.

Next week will show if WSU is a paper tiger, IMO. They benefitted BIGLY by Gubrud not playing. Instead of moving up a few spots by beating EWU, they would have fallen to 18-20 after being boat raced. WSU's 2 biggest tests remaining are on the road (UND and ISU-o). I can see a team in everyone's top 10 not even making the playoffs after finishing 7-4. They only beat the Bobcats by 10 and our QB play is f'ing pathetic. The only thing the defense doesn't know is.... which way is Troy running it.

I saw your coach fired the OC because the linebacker you have playing QB isn't throwing it well enough.

[Thumper 76]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Weber State Wildcats
8: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: Colgate Raiders
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: North Carolina A&T Aggies
20: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Dartmouth Big Green
23: Idaho State Bengals
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Maine Black Bears

Sammy94

The Most Significant Win: Stony Brook Seawolves
The Most Significant Loss: McNeese State Cowboys
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Southland Conference


What’s with SHSU fans keeping SDSU over UNI? Y’all know something I don’t?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MSUBobcat]

I saw your coach fired the OC because the linebacker you have playing QB isn't throwing it well enough.

No, he's still employed (for some ****ing reason). And it was the RB who sometimes plays LB that can't throw the damn ball. Those 2 ugly INT's directly cost MSU the game.

I'd be very surprised if UND doesn't win by double digits. Weber shouldn't score more than 14 points.

[JSUSoutherner]

I'm sure you disagree but I don't think JSU is as bad as those of you who dropped them out of the T25 are claiming. As far as I can tell turnovers sealed their fate in both their losses this year. They look to me like a top 10 team talent wise who doesn't know how to take care of the ball consistently so they can beat almost anyone in the country and also lose to a lot of teams they should wipe the field with.

FWIW I had SEMO on my watchlist of 15 teams outside my poll ballot last week (same place I had NC A&T both last week and this week) so I don't think JSU's 2 losses are that awful but they don't have anything in terms of wins to prop themselves up with. I have SEMO at #22 and JSU at #23 this week. I can see the argument against ranking them but you really don't need to be "that good" to get into that 20-25 range IMO.

Watch some of the Murray game this weekend and then come back and let me know if you still think JSU could beat "almost anyone in the country"

[Cocky]

Great to see people lobbying against their team.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Watch some of the Murray game this weekend and then come back and let me know if you still think JSU could beat "almost anyone in the country"

Could they beat some teams in the AGS Top 25?

[F'N Hawks]

No, he's still employed (for some ****ing reason). And it was the RB who sometimes plays LB that can't throw the damn ball. Those 2 ugly INT's directly cost MSU the game.

I'd be very surprised if UND doesn't win by double digits. Weber shouldn't score more than 14 points.

UND had two WR's just get hurt. It's going to be ugly up front. This isn't Sac State.

First one to 17 wins it.

[Preferred Walk-On]

I'll take either JSUSoutherner's, Cocky's, or anyone very familiar with JSU this season's response (about how JSU would perform against this week's AGS Top 25).

[Cocky]

Trying to be as honest as possible, I dont see a sure win. T = tossup. Talent doesnt make a team. Our talent would be greater than several if not most in the T25.


I'll take either JSUSoutherner's, Cocky's, or anyone very familiar with JSU this season's response (about how JSU would perform against this week's AGS Top 25).




1

North Dakota State Bison
L




2
James Madison Dukes
L




3
UC Davis Aggies
L




4
Kennesaw State Owls
L




5
Towson Tigers
L




6
Eastern Washington Eagles
L




7
Weber State Wildcats
L




8
Elon Phoenix
L




9
Illinois State Redbirds
L




10
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
L




11
Stony Brook Seawolves
L




12
Wofford Terriers
T




13
Colgate Raiders
T




14
Northern Iowa Panthers
L




15
Central Arkansas Bears
T




16
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
L




17
Princeton Tigers
L




18
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
L




19
McNeese State Cowboys
T




20
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
466

9


21
Dartmouth Big Green
L




22
Idaho State Bengals
L




23
Maine Black Bears
T




24
Nicholls State Colonels
T




25
North Carolina A&T Aggies
L

[JSUSoutherner]

Great to see people lobbying against their team.

I'm not going to sit here and prop up a team that can't help themselves.

I'll be pleased as punch if they go and prove me wrong but right now my confidence that they will is pretty low.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Sorry to keep pointing things out Ursus, but this looks suspect to me in terms of their rank last week:



35
Sam Houston State Bearkats
10

NR


36T
Abilene Christian Wildcats
7

22




Yeah, I got ya. I missed a step in the sorting process and it threw the last week stuff way off and I was trying to fix it back up but didn't spend a lot of time on it. I'll look at it closer and redo it soon though. AND, I appreciate the pointing out to help me keep things in line RFD.

I think I got it fixed now. xlolx

[Sammy94]

What’s with SHSU fans keeping SDSU over UNI? Y’all know something I don’t?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I use the same reasoning why I have JMU over Elon. I think SDSU is the better team.

[World]

Beat me to it.

Hello Preferred Walk-On:

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 15:50:10.

Your vote is listed below. (Last week's rank is denoted in parentheses.)

1: North Dakota State Bison (1) - Self explanatory.

2: James Madison Dukes (3) - Bye, but moved up a slot due to South Dakota State loss.

3: UC-Davis Aggies (4) - Continued winning AND dominated Cal Poly similarly to North Dakota State and Eastern Washington (with Gage Gubrud). Moved up a spot due to the SDSU vacancy.

4: Towson Tigers (5) - Took care of business again. Best win to date is still Stony Brook (see explanation provided in Week 6 for why Towson is just behind UC-Davis, if you care).

5: Kennesaw State Owls (6) - Didn't lose. Didn't win either. See SDSU vacancy for moving up one spot.

6: Weber State Wildcats (12) - Beat Eastern Washington last week, and did not have a letdown this week. Just needed to see two games removed from the Northern Arizona debacle before moving above EWU.

7: Eastern Washington Eagles (9) - Fell behind Weber State, but only because they did not play (and Weber State took care of business and won the head-to-head).

8: Elon Phoenix (10) - Took care of Richmond, although not as handily as others have. Kept above Northern Iowa and South Dakota State due to the equity built up with a win over James Madison.

9: Northern Iowa Panthers (15) - If Northern Iowa does not lose to Montana, where would they be? Not counting the game at Iowa, Northern Iowa has really only played three bad quarters of football this year. And yes, they should be ranked above Northern Arizona. ;)

10: South Dakota State Jackrabbits (2) - Cannot say I am surprised with Northern Iowa's victory over South Dakota State (especially in Cedar Falls). Looks like another second round playoff game for the Jackrabbits in the FargoDome could be looming if they don't show up at Illinois State.

11: Idaho State Bengals (13) - Played FBS Liberty very tough. Moved up two spots due to Illinois State loss and Jacksonville State vacancy.

12: Illinois State Redbirds (7) - I know the final score @ North Dakota State was 14-28, but at 28-0, the Bison put it on cruise control. Illinois State will still be a tough out for whoever draws them, and #10 and #12 may get swapped (and then some) pending next week's outcome.

13: Stony Brook Seawolves (14) - Manhandled Rhode Island, but only moved up one spot, as this voter did not have Rhode Island even ranked last week (and quite honestly was not sure why Rhode Island was even in the Top 25, let alone #17, in last week's AGS poll...cough, first game of season, cough, Delaware debacle).

14: North Dakota Fighting Hawks (16) - Only losses were Washington (FBS) and Idaho State (ranked #21 in last week's AGS Poll despite taking #5 AGS-ranked UC-Davis to the limit). After Idaho State loss, UND has manhandled three straight opponents the way a Top 15 team should. If they are for real, then they should get to 8-3, even with a loss to Weber State, which is nowhere close to a given at this point.

15: McNeese State Cowboys (11) - Incarnate Word? This voter will likely get dinged for only dropping McNeese State to #15, but was the highest ranked Southland team previously. Although other Southland teams moved ever-so-slightly up the rankings, could not really justify dropping McNeese State below them...yet.

16: Nicholls State Colonels (18) - Moved up due to vacancies, but they also were on Bye.

17: Central Arkansas Bears (23) - Took care of business (which cannot be said for a number of Top 25 teams this week). Next up...McNeese State, Lamar, and Incarnate Word. The next few weeks will clarify the Southland.

18: Montana State Bobcats (17) - I agree with most AGS posters that Montana State does not really have an outstanding win. They don't have an outstanding loss either. They only lost to Weber State by 10 (tied after the 3rd quarter), and I am keeping them in the poll until after the Idaho State game next week, as they did not warrant a drop. Hell, Montana got Top 25 ranking even after losing to two common opponents, including Portland State, so I think Montana State can have a stay of execution.

19: Jacksonville State Gamecocks (8) - Jacksonville State still ranked?...Southeast Missouri State not? Saw a lot of discussion about this in last week's AGS Poll Results thread (not sure why there) after I submitted my poll. The general synopsis by AGS posters: Southeast Missouri State could/should be ranked and Jacksonville State should not (either option for SEMO, as long as JSU is not ranked). Well, I respectfully disagree. Not one, not two, but three common opponents thus far (Eastern Kentucky, Tennessee Tech, and Austin Peay). SEMO is 2-1 vs these three, whereas JSU is 3-0. Furthermore, JSU's victories over these opponents have been more convincing. I think I remember some discussion about teams occasionally being forgiven for having a bad game. Head-to-head is great, but I think we have graduated to the point in the season where the body of work also matters. So one rebuts with "JSU's body of work sucks" and they have not beaten anybody. Well, SEMO not only lost to EKU (JSU beat them 56-7), but they also beat Southern Illinois by only 4 points (while giving up 44 points to the Salukis). That was actually the deciding factor for me (SIU is just plain bad this year). Furthermore, if JSU reduces the 9 turnovers in their two losses, perhaps we are talking about an undefeated team (I know, "if ifs and buts were candies and nuts...")? This voter has no problem if people dropped JSU out, a slight problem if SEMO is ranked (given they did not even receive a single vote in last week's poll), and disagrees that SEMO jumps JSU...at least yet. Too bad SEMO does not play Kennesaw State to really prove something, and if JSU wins that matchup, will there be any AGS retractions...asking for a friend. ;)

20: Wofford Terriers (NR) - Nice recovery after last week. Wofford re-enters this voter's poll, and East Tennessee State drops out (basically a swap).

21: Colgate Raiders (21) - Same story every week. Keep winning (or in this case, not losing), and you get to stay.

22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens (NR) - After a rough start to the season (Rhode Island loss), have beaten everyone on schedule not named North Dakota State. Even though Delaware beat New Hampshire this past weekend, warranted move into Top 25 due to vacancies. Showdown with Towson next.

23: Dartmouth Big Green (25) - Still undefeated, but also still untested.

24: Princeton Tigers (NR) - See Dartmouth above.

25: Incarnate Word Cardinals (NR) - This spot was difficult. Considered Southeast Missouri State, Monmouth, Florida A&M, East Tennessee State, Samford, Mercer, and even Alcorn State. Yikes! Gave the nod to Incarnate Word, as their win was probably the biggest upset of the group above. Really, clenz probably summed this choice up best with his pointed response to the NAU/UNI thread last week.

Most significant win: Northern Iowa Panthers - Just finished taking two of three games vs. the Dakotas, with really only one bad quarter of football in that stretch. This win was huge for helping to ensure 7 DI wins, as well as garnering a signature FCS win.

Most significant loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks - Talk of JSU's inflated ranking became justified with this loss. Also, a top 8 seed (even if it was previously based on reputation only) now appears to be lost.

Which conference does your team play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference



Well there you go

so you considered Monmouth for #25?

[Preferred Walk-On]

Well there you go

so you considered Monmouth for #25?

That is what it has come to. :)

[BisonTru]

My Poll




1
North Dakota St


2
James Madison


3
UC Davis


4
Towson


5
Illionis St


6
Colgate


7
Elon


8
South Dakota St


9
Eastern Washington


10
Northern Iowa


11
Dartmouth


12
Kennesaw St


13
Princeton


14
Delaware


15
Weber st


16
Stony Brook


17
North Dakota


18
Central Arkansas


19
Idaho St


20
Wofford


21
Western Illinois


22
Montana St


23
Chattaanoga


24
Nichols St


25
SE Missouri St

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Great to see people lobbying against their team.

If we're honestly giving our assessment then so am I. I do it all the time if I think people are missing something on my team and overvaluing them. It is sort of how we can have a more thought out poll instead of some homer crap.

[dbackjon]

Yea, good one, it is lazy BS, I am not saying that FAMU necessarily needs to be in the top 25 but my guess is a lot of people never look past the 25 or 30 teams in their "queue'. The JSU loss to SEMO hurts NCAT and I am sure you probably agree with that.


I always check the standings before I vote - teams can sneak up (especially in the "lower" conferences) and are worth a second look

[BisonTru]

Playoff breakdown of the poll:


1
North Dakota State Bison
MVFC Auto



2
James Madison Dukes
CAA Auto



3
UC Davis Aggies
Big Sky Auto



4
Kennesaw State Owls
Big South Auto



5
Towson Tigers
AL1



6
Eastern Washington Eagles
AL2



7
Weber State Wildcats
AL3



8
Elon Phoenix
AL4



9
Illinois State Redbirds
AL5



10
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
AL6



11
Stony Brook Seawolves
AL7



12
Wofford Terriers
Southern Auto
*ETSU/Mercer/Wofford all tied in conference


13
Colgate Raiders
Patroit Auto



14
Northern Iowa Panthers
AL8



15
Central Arkansas Bears
Southland Auto
*McNeese/IW/UCA are all tied in conference


16
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
AL9



17
Princeton Tigers
No playoffs



18
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
AL10



19
McNeese State Cowboys
AL11



20
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
AL12*
*Assuming Murray St gets the auto


21
Dartmouth Big Green
No Playoffs



22
Idaho State Bengals
AL13



23
Maine Black Bears
AL14



24
Nicholls State Colonels
First team Out



25
North Carolina A&T Aggies

















ORV:




26
Rhode Island Rams




27
East Tennessee State Buccaneers




28
Chattanooga Mocs




29
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks




30
Incarnate Word Cardinals




31
Western Illinois Leathernecks




32
Montana State Bobcats




33
Florida A&M Rattlers




34
Missouri State Bears




35
Sam Houston State Bearkats




36T
Abilene Christian Wildcats




36T
Murray State Racers




36T
Samford Bulldogs




39
Yale Bulldogs




40
Monmouth Hawks

[World]

That is what it has come to. :)

Ok thanks

So you considered Monmouth at #25

yet for #24 and #25 you stated this:


23: Dartmouth Big Green (25) - Still undefeated, but also still untested.

24: Princeton Tigers (NR) - See Dartmouth above.



Do you understand that your #24 Princeton completely and utterly destroyed the Monmouth team that you were considering for almost the same ranking at #25 by a score of 51-9?

[Thumper 76]

I use the same reasoning why I have JMU over Elon. I think SDSU is the better team.

Well, can’t say I agree, the resume doesn’t back it up but your reasoning is yours and I appreciate a response.


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[WileECoyote06]

Cause JSU xcoffeex

If by that you mean Jackson State. I agree. xsmiley_wix

[SU DOG]

I don't know what gives with JSU, maybe injuries and turnovers IDK, but if my team had to play one game for something significant and we had to have the win, I would choose SEMO rather than facing the Gamecocks. I still don't think that SEMO is top 25 worthy. I'll have to admit that I had JSU all the way up to #5 last week and that was obviously embarrassingly way too high. I dropped them 10 places which may still be too high, but they could still be the OVC winner. Saturday, IMO, they play a better team than SEMO, at Murray, so maybe that will tell us something.

My own team has had a somewhat similar season. Last week we beat a team(Furman - injury problems I admit) that had just beaten ranked Wofford by 20 points. No, I still didn't put us in my top 25, but now that we seem to have taken the handcuffs off of Hodges' passing game and realized we are not a running team, Samford looks like a different animal. We have a BYE Saturday, then Wofford comes to town. A win in that one and I will be including the Bulldogs somewhere on my ballot.

Man, voting right now, for honest folks, is really a laborious task.

[TheKingpin28]

As bad as Constantine was/is, Jenks is not a dual threat QB. He averages 30.8 yards/game of TOTAL OFFENSE, with a whopping 2.7 yards/rush and 2.4 yards/pass attempt. In fact, BBQ doesn't have much of an offense in any aspect. 266 yards/game isn't going to get it done against many playoff teams. They managed 250 yards against USD, who dropped out of the poll altogether, and 275 against a Gubrud-less EWU (one could assume at least a few less yards due to EWU holding the ball longer if Gubrud was available). Nuts and bolts of it is.... if you're basing ANY of Weber's ranking on it's offense, they shouldn't be in your top 20. The defense is fairly stout however.

Next week will show if WSU is a paper tiger, IMO. They benefitted BIGLY by Gubrud not playing. Instead of moving up a few spots by beating EWU, they would have fallen to 18-20 after being boat raced. WSU's 2 biggest tests remaining are on the road (UND and ISU-o). I can see a team in everyone's top 10 not even making the playoffs after finishing 7-4. They only beat the Bobcats by 10 and our QB play is f'ing pathetic. The only thing the defense doesn't know is.... which way is Troy running it.I have been giving their defense the reason why they were hanging on. Ever since Cantwell graduated, that offense plummeted. Also, not having 10 worthy teams for the T10 is another case for why they get to stay.

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[POD Knows]

I have been giving their defense the reason why they were hanging on. Ever since Cantwell graduated, that offense plummeted. Also, not having 10 worthy teams for the T10 is another case for why they get to stay.

Sent from my SM-J727V using TapatalkUND is going to roll Weber State at El Forko Grande this weekend.

[JSUSoutherner]

I don't know what gives with JSU, maybe injuries and turnovers IDK, but if my team had to play one game for something significant and we had to have the win, I would choose SEMO rather than facing the Gamecocks. I still don't think that SEMO is top 25 worthy. I'll have to admit that I had JSU all the way up to #5 last week and that was obviously embarrassingly way too high. I dropped them 10 places which may still be too high, but they could still be the OVC winner. Saturday, IMO, they play a better team than SEMO, at Murray, so maybe that will tell us something.

My own team has had a somewhat similar season. Last week we beat a team(Furman - injury problems I admit) that had just beaten ranked Wofford by 20 points. No, I still didn't put us in my top 25, but now that we seem to have taken the handcuffs off of Hodges' passing game and realized we are not a running team, Samford looks like a different animal. We have a BYE Saturday, then Wofford comes to town. A win in that one and I will be including the Bulldogs somewhere on my ballot.

Man, voting right now, for honest folks, is really a laborious task.

We will dump truck Murray and SEMO will probably lose. We will make the playoffs of the autobid and and get bounced like usual.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Ok thanks

So you considered Monmouth at #25

yet for #24 and #25 you stated this:


23: Dartmouth Big Green (25) - Still undefeated, but also still untested.

24: Princeton Tigers (NR) - See Dartmouth above.



Do you understand that your #24 Princeton completely and utterly destroyed the Monmouth team that you were considering for almost the same ranking at #25 by a score of 51-9?

Considered, did not put (and quite honestly was just to fill #25). If you are arguing the description for Princeton of "still untested" and using Monmouth as the example for not, then clenz's quote applies here. Interestingly, #25 is not #24 or #23 (and it is possible there is distance between these). If this is the only nitpick, I'll take it. ;)

BTW, I would like to see that Incarnate Word v. Princeton matchup.

[Reign of Terrier]

I am the biggest critic of Chris Hatcher and Samford but I think they deserve to be ranked.

Yes, they are 4-4, but everyone they lost to is in contention for a playoff spot at this moment. They have a bye week this week and get Wofford at home, a game that's always been a challenge to the Terriers.

Samford has problems closing games that count when their favored but is great when they're the underdog. I believe that may be because Hatcher thinks running the ball is a good idea sometimes, when if he just let's Hodges YOLO it all over the yard, their offense is at their best.

Also: the socon may not have the highest ceiling of the "power 5" conferences, but it has a much higher floor than the CAA, Southland and Big Sky

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[TheKingpin28]

UND is going to roll Weber State at El Forko Grande this weekend.As long as the school to the north has a pulse, I completely agree with you

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[Catbooster]

I am the biggest critic of Chris Hatcher and Samford but I think they deserve to be ranked.

Yes, they are 4-4, but everyone they lost to is in contention for a playoff spot at this moment. They have a bye week this week and get Wofford at home, a game that's always been a challenge to the Terriers.

Samford has problems closing games that count when their favored but is great when they're the underdog. I believe that may be because Hatcher thinks running the ball is a good idea sometimes, when if he just let's Hodges YOLO it all over the yard, their offense is at their best.

Also: the socon may not have the highest ceiling of the "power 5" conferences, but it has a much higher floor than the CAA, Southland and Big Sky

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All of our losses are to top 10 teams. Doesn't mean we should be ranked.

[SU DOG]

I am the biggest critic of Chris Hatcher and Samford but I think they deserve to be ranked.

Yes, they are 4-4, but everyone they lost to is in contention for a playoff spot at this moment. They have a bye week this week and get Wofford at home, a game that's always been a challenge to the Terriers.

Samford has problems closing games that count when their favored but is great when they're the underdog. I believe that may be because Hatcher thinks running the ball is a good idea sometimes, when if he just let's Hodges YOLO it all over the yard, their offense is at their best.

Also: the socon may not have the highest ceiling of the "power 5" conferences, but it has a much higher floor than the CAA, Southland and Big Sky

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Thanks YT, agree 100%. We have 3 games left. We could go 3-0 or 0-3, the way the SoCon is this year. Of course, we HAVE to win all 3 to even have a hope for Playoffs.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

yt, I think you have to win at least one of the four you've lost (as a team) to be considered right now. You can't be .500 at this point and really think they are being overlooked. Now they have a few more weeks to put this stink of a win/loss balancing act behind them and gain some recognition again.

[Catbooster]

Mine for this week:


1
North Dakota State Bison


2
James Madison Dukes


3
Towson Tigers


4
UC Davis Aggies


5
Kennesaw State Owls


6
Eastern Washington Eagles


7
Illinois State Redbirds


8
Weber State Wildcats


9
Stony Brook Seawolves


10
Elon Phoenix


11
Wofford Terriers


12
Northern Iowa Panthers


13
Idaho State Bengals


14
South Dakota State Jackrabbits


15
Colgate Raiders


16
Rhode Island Rams


17
Delaware Fighting Blue Hens


18
North Dakota Fighting Hawks


19
Central Arkansas Bears


20
Incarnate Word Cardinals


21
Western Illinois Leathernecks


22
North Carolina A&T Aggies


23
McNeese State Cowboys


24
East Tennessee State Buccaneers


25
Dartmouth Big Green

[SU DOG]

yt, I think you have to win at least one of the four you've lost (as a team) to be considered right now. You can't be .500 at this point and really think they are being overlooked. Now they have a few more weeks to put this stink of a win/loss balancing act behind them and gain some recognition again.

Exactly the reason we are not yet included in my ballot.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Exactly the reason we are not yet included in my ballot.

Peeking over the fence is where I think Samford is in most people's mind much like yours.

[Reign of Terrier]

All of our losses are to top 10 teams. Doesn't mean we should be ranked.Yeah but Samford has been to the playoffs the last couple years. Right now the bubble for ranking is pretty soft. There's obviously good reason to not rank Samford. All I'm saying: keep them in mind, especially if they beat Wofford in 2 weeks.

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[World]

Considered, did not put (and quite honestly was just to fill #25). If you are arguing the description for Princeton of "still untested" and using Monmouth as the example for not, then clenz's quote applies here. Interestingly, #25 is not #24 or #23 (and it is possible there is distance between these). If this is the only nitpick, I'll take it. ;)

BTW, I would like to see that Incarnate Word v. Princeton matchup.

ha!

that is a 4-5 TD win for Princeton minimum

[Reign of Terrier]

yt, I think you have to win at least one of the four you've lost (as a team) to be considered right now. You can't be .500 at this point and really think they are being overlooked. Now they have a few more weeks to put this stink of a win/loss balancing act behind them and gain some recognition again.Oh yeah, I agree. I said in the other thread that 2 losses is kind of bad right now, so 4 is terrible.

But if Samford beats Wofford in two weeks they should be ranked. If not, they should not.

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[Cocky]

Playoff breakdown of the poll:


1
North Dakota State Bison
MVFC Auto



2
James Madison Dukes
CAA Auto



3
UC Davis Aggies
Big Sky Auto



4
Kennesaw State Owls
Big South Auto



5
Towson Tigers
AL1



6
Eastern Washington Eagles
AL2



7
Weber State Wildcats
AL3



8
Elon Phoenix
AL4



9
Illinois State Redbirds
AL5



10
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
AL6



11
Stony Brook Seawolves
AL7



12
Wofford Terriers
Southern Auto
*ETSU/Mercer/Wofford all tied in conference


13
Colgate Raiders
Patroit Auto



14
Northern Iowa Panthers
AL8



15
Central Arkansas Bears
Southland Auto
*McNeese/IW/UCA are all tied in conference


16
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
AL9



17
Princeton Tigers
No playoffs



18
North Dakota Fighting Hawks
AL10



19
McNeese State Cowboys
AL11



20
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
AL12*
*Assuming Murray St gets the auto


21
Dartmouth Big Green
No Playoffs



22
Idaho State Bengals
AL13



23
Maine Black Bears
AL14



24
Nicholls State Colonels
First team Out



25
North Carolina A&T Aggies

















ORV:




26
Rhode Island Rams




27
East Tennessee State Buccaneers




28
Chattanooga Mocs




29
Southeast Missouri State Redhawks




30
Incarnate Word Cardinals




31
Western Illinois Leathernecks




32
Montana State Bobcats




33
Florida A&M Rattlers




34
Missouri State Bears




35
Sam Houston State Bearkats




36T
Abilene Christian Wildcats




36T
Murray State Racers




36T
Samford Bulldogs




39
Yale Bulldogs




40
Monmouth Hawks





Tru dont believe we will be in if Murray is the Auto. We would have at least 3 losses and probably a fourth to KSU. JSU could get a bid with a loss to KSU and Murray win, which, if they dont lose, SEMO would get the Auto. A four loss JSU team is not deserving of a playoff bid. Talent might be better than some bubble teams but reward them for their efforts.

[Wildcat1997]

Abilene Christian getting some votes? Wow I'm pretty surprised. IMO we don't deserve to be in the top 25 but we don't have a terrible resume either. One problem is we don't have many good wins. We do have a convincing win against Nicholls, but other than that we've only won against a D2 team, HBU and SELA. Also we have a bad loss against SFA. But to be fair most teams have bad losses here and there. Other than that we've lost a competitive game against Baylor and close games to a top 25 McNeese team and a UIW team that somehow has a very real chance of making the playoffs. Hopefully we can finish this year off strong although it'll be tough against the likes of Sam and UCA.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Oh yeah, I agree. I said in the other thread that 2 losses is kind of bad right now, so 4 is terrible.

But if Samford beats Wofford in two weeks they should be ranked. If not, they should not.

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Yes, they seem to have that Bear Front down against you fairly well and do some good squeeze/scraping so we'll see how it works this year.

[Preferred Walk-On]

ha!

that is a 4-5 TD win for Princeton minimum

Maybe, but we'll never know.

Wouldn't that be the ****s if UIW somehow makes the playoffs? If they win their next three games (which they likely won't), they would win the Southland auto-bid and be in.

[Preferred Walk-On]

Trying to be as honest as possible, I dont see a sure win. T = tossup. Talent doesnt make a team. Our talent would be greater than several if not most in the T25.

I appreciate your candor. Personally, I believe that until JSU plays Kennesaw State, we really don't know how good/bad either team is. If your synopsis is true, and Kennesaw State is Top 5, then KSU should boat-race JSU. I really don't believe this will happen. Thanks for the response though.

[BisonTru]

Tru dont believe we will be in if Murray is the Auto. We would have at least 3 losses and probably a fourth to KSU. JSU could get a bid with a loss to KSU and Murray win, which, if they dont lose, SEMO would get the Auto. A four loss JSU team is not deserving of a playoff bid. Talent might be better than some bubble teams but reward them for their efforts.

Yeah the OVC gets interesting now. I had to give the auto to someone and Murray is in the lead. I think the OVC is probably a one bid conference but JSU has enough history to be in consideration for an at large.



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[Preferred Walk-On]

23: Dartmouth Big Green (25) - Still undefeated, but also still untested.

24: Princeton Tigers (NR) - See Dartmouth above.

25: Incarnate Word Cardinals (NR) - This spot was difficult. Considered Southeast Missouri State, Monmouth, Florida A&M, East Tennessee State, Samford, Mercer, and even Alcorn State. Yikes! Gave the nod to Incarnate Word, as their win was probably the biggest upset of the group above. Really, clenz probably summed this choice up best with his pointed response to the NAU/UNI thread last week.


World, just checking to see if there is a team in bold that would not be beaten by Princeton by 4-5 TD (Monmouth and Incarnate Word have been eliminated due to reality or your prediction).

If there isn't, then you could simply swap Incarnate Word or Monmouth (or anyone else), and their placement behind Princeton is spot on. If there is someone there that would not get boat-raced by Princeton, then I guess that coveted #25 spot should have been that team, and Princeton is still untested, unfortunately.

Looking forward to two weeks from now for the Ivy League championship game (and yes, I am hoping both teams are still undefeated). Definitely rooting for Princeton until then, and unfortunately, I just really don't have much of a vested interested beyond that. And no, I am not trying to start an Ivy-playoff discussion, it is just that it is all hypotheticals beyond that.

[Sammy94]

Well, can’t say I agree, the resume doesn’t back it up but your reasoning is yours and I appreciate a response.


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Your reasoning is probably more in line since they are MVFC teams. I would think you had more insight.

[Sammy94]

Maybe, but we'll never know.

Wouldn't that be the ****s if UIW somehow makes the playoffs? If they win their next three games (which they likely won't), they would win the Southland auto-bid and be in.

Maybe not. They have a money game with Iowa State Dec 1.

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah the OVC gets interesting now. I had to give the auto to someone and Murray is in the lead. I think the OVC is probably a one bid conference but JSU has enough history to be in consideration for an at large.



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The only scenario where the OVC gets an at large is if us and SEMO both win out.

[mvemjsunpx]

This was definitely one of those "complete reassessment" kinda weeks.


(last week in parentheses)


1. North Dakota St. (1)
2. Towson (4)
3. Kennesaw St. (2)
4. James Madison (5)
5. UC Davis (6)
6. Eastern Washington (7)
7. Weber St. (12)
8. Idaho St. (10)
9. North Dakota (16)
10. Stony Brook (17)
11. Illinois St. (14)
12. Northern Iowa (NR)
13. South Dakota St. (3)
14. Delaware (19)
15. Elon (8)
16. Princeton (20)
17. Colgate (21)
18. Dartmouth (22)
19. Wofford (NR)
20. Central Arkansas (NR)
21. East Tennessee St. (NR)
22. Missouri St. (13)
23. Southeast Missouri St. (NR)
24. Florida A&M (24)
25. North Carolina A&T (25)

W - Northern Iowa
L - McNeese St.


Dropped - McNeese St. (9), Jacksonville St. (11), Maine (15), Rhode Island (18), Nicholls St. (23)

[Preferred Walk-On]

Maybe not. They have a money game with Iowa State Dec 1.

I think they would still have the best conference record, AND they would have beaten both of the teams tied with them currently for first place in the conference. If McNeese State won out, they should lose the tiebreaker with Incarnate Word (or is there not a tiebreaker based on head-to-head)? Does the FBS (Iowa State) game play a role in any tie-breaking scenario? It is completely possible that I am missing something.

[Sammy94]

I think they would still have the best conference record, AND they would have beaten both of the teams tied with them currently for first place in the conference. If McNeese State won out, they should lose the tiebreaker with Incarnate Word (or is there not a tiebreaker based on head-to-head)? Does the FBS (Iowa State) game play a role in any tie-breaking scenario? It is completely possible that I am missing something.
That
The problem is the FBS game is during the FCS playoffs. Reality is they won’t win both or either @Nicholls or @ UCA and will be out of the playoff picture as quickly as they entered it.

[Preferred Walk-On]

That
The problem is the FBS game is during the FCS playoffs. Reality is they won’t win both or either @Nicholls or @ UCA and will be out of the playoff picture as quickly as they entered it.

Ah, yes. That playoff game on Dec 1 with an FBS game on Dec 1 could be a bit tricky. Maybe a Northern Iowa, Iowa State double-header? How about Fri night @ UNI (on ESPN), and Sat @ Iowa State?

Of course, this is assuming: (1) UIW were to have the resume to make the playoffs (beating Nicholls, Sam Houston State, and Central Arkansas), (2) UIW were to win their Thanksgiving weekend playoff game, and (3) the committee decided to funnel the winner of that game to UNI.

One can dream, can't they? ;)

[Preferred Walk-On]

That
The problem is the FBS game is during the FCS playoffs. Reality is they won’t win both or either @Nicholls or @ UCA and will be out of the playoff picture as quickly as they entered it.

Perhaps Princeton could sub in for UIW @ Iowa State, unless their finals are the week after Thanksgiving?

[Thumper 76]

Hello Thumper 76,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 22:21:28

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: UC Davis Aggies
4: Kennesaw State Owls
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Towson Tigers
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Colgate Raiders
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Idaho State Bengals
16: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: Chattanooga Mocs
19: Rhode Island Rams
20: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Nicholls State Colonels
23: Dartmouth Big Green
24: Incarnate Word Cardinals
25: Maine Black Bears

Thumper 76

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference




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[UpstateBison]

First year voter and much tougher than I ever thought it would be after this week. The one thing I will say is that I think we are much tougher on our own conference teams. I know I am.


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[Professor Chaos]

Jacksonville State and Maine don't deserve to be ranked. We're at the point in the season where 3 total losses looks bad and 2 FCS losses is questionable, pending on who they are to and in what manner (for example, SDSU still deserves ranking).

That's not to say that 2 FCS/3 total losses are always bad, but that if those teams are truly of high quality, they'll make their way back in the poll in the final 2 weeks when they finish 7-4/8-3


I am the biggest critic of Chris Hatcher and Samford but I think they deserve to be ranked.

Yes, they are 4-4, but everyone they lost to is in contention for a playoff spot at this moment. They have a bye week this week and get Wofford at home, a game that's always been a challenge to the Terriers.

Samford has problems closing games that count when their favored but is great when they're the underdog. I believe that may be because Hatcher thinks running the ball is a good idea sometimes, when if he just let's Hodges YOLO it all over the yard, their offense is at their best.

Also: the socon may not have the highest ceiling of the "power 5" conferences, but it has a much higher floor than the CAA, Southland and Big Sky

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
xeyebrowx

[Cocky]

The only scenario where the OVC gets an at large is if us and SEMO both win out.

Not sure if we win out and get passed over for the playoffs, the long term effects to our program could be a positive. Being left out could put some needed pressure on everyone involved. A slap in the face would be great for the JSU program.

[Reign of Terrier]

xeyebrowxKeep scrolling, I addressed this.


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[LehighU11]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Towson Tigers
4: Weber State Wildcats
5: UC Davis Aggies
6: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Kennesaw State Owls
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Wofford Terriers
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Dartmouth Big Green
14: Princeton Tigers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: Northern Iowa Panthers
17: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
18: Maine Black Bears
19: Central Arkansas Bears
20: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: Idaho State Bengals
25: Incarnate Word Cardinals

[JSUSoutherner]

Not sure if we win out and get passed over for the playoffs, the long term effects to our program could be a positive. Being left out could put some needed pressure on everyone involved. A slap in the face would be great for the JSU program.

I don't think one season is enough to get anyone who needs to go out the door.

[World]

Perhaps Princeton could sub in for UIW @ Iowa State, unless their finals are the week after Thanksgiving?

ha!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Kennesaw State Owls
5: Towson Tigers
6: UC Davis Aggies
7: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Princeton Tigers
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Colgate Raiders
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Northern Iowa Panthers
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Nicholls State Colonels
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Maine Black Bears

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: McNeese State Cowboys
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

[McNeese75]

ha!

that is a 4-5 TD win for Princeton minimum

In your dreams troll boy

[World]

In your dreams troll boy

Oh, wait that is what unranked Incarnate Word did to YOUR team:

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/401030188

[caribbeanhen]

I got SEMO in mine because there is nobody behind them that deserves and they bitch slapped a top 15 team (allegedly)

Dartmouth beats your last 10 teams POD

[McNeese75]

Yep and they would beat your teams over ranked ass as well xcoffeex

[caribbeanhen]

Yep and they would beat your teams over ranked ass as well xcoffeex

so you have Dartmouth ranked over Delaware?

[POD Knows]

Dartmouth beats your last 10 teams PODBull****, prove it.

[dewey]

Here is my poll. Critique as needed.

Hello dewey,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 23:53:14

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Towson Tigers
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Weber State Wildcats
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Kennesaw State Owls
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Idaho State Bengals
15: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
16: Central Arkansas Bears
17: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Dartmouth Big Green
21: Colgate Raiders
22: Princeton Tigers
23: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Maine Black Bears

dewey

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Catbooster]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Kennesaw State Owls
5: Towson Tigers
6: UC Davis Aggies
7: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Princeton Tigers
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Colgate Raiders
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Northern Iowa Panthers
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Nicholls State Colonels
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
25: Maine Black Bears

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: McNeese State Cowboys
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Patriot League

Not sold on our neighbors in Pocatello?

[geaux_sioux]

UND is going to roll Weber State at El Forko Grande this weekend.
Stop. We don’t need your reverse psychology.

[caribbeanhen]

Bull****, prove it.

well that will have to wait a few weeks until Dartmouth beats Princeton and Princeton will be in your top 15 by then, its early and that is all I got right now

[kalm]

I am the biggest critic of Chris Hatcher and Samford but I think they deserve to be ranked.

Yes, they are 4-4, but everyone they lost to is in contention for a playoff spot at this moment. They have a bye week this week and get Wofford at home, a game that's always been a challenge to the Terriers.

Samford has problems closing games that count when their favored but is great when they're the underdog. I believe that may be because Hatcher thinks running the ball is a good idea sometimes, when if he just let's Hodges YOLO it all over the yard, their offense is at their best.

Also: the socon may not have the highest ceiling of the "power 5" conferences, but it has a much higher floor than the CAA, Southland and Big Sky

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

“Much higher”? Based on what? Narrow losses in conference and wins over Shorter?

Please list the signature OOC wins for the SoCon. Two of your teams got dominated by CAA opponents. The best hat hanger is close loss to FSU I guess?

The last winless BSC team just destroyed NAU (yeah jnjuries, but still) who beat a top 10 FCS the week before and an FBS by 20 earlier in the season. Another bottoms dweller, PSU, beat a ranked Montana at home who has a win against UNI.

A bottom half of the CAA Nova has a win against a decent Temple.

I’d like to see a list of OOC signature wins from the OVC and SLC as well.

I’m not sure all three shouldn’t be 1 bid conferences. Perhaps the SLC if Nicholls finishes runner up with their win over KU or if JSU finishes second with a win over KSU but otherwise....xcoffeex

[Ivytalk]

Hell has frozen over. Three Ivies in the top 40, two in the top 25.

[kalm]

Hell has frozen over. Three Ivies in the top 40, two in the top 25.

Meh...there's 3 directional schools in the top 25 and 5 in the top 40.


:D

[POD Knows]

Stop. We don’t need your reverse psychology.No, I actually mean this, I don't want you to win but I think you will.

[POD Knows]

well that will have to wait a few weeks until Dartmouth beats Princeton and Princeton will be in your top 15 by then, its early and that is all I got right nowI really don't care that they will beat each other, we have no point of reference on any of these Ivy's. I got Princeton in my poll by default. First time I have ever had an Ivy in my poll, and probably the last. We have no idea how good or how bad they are.

[Cocky]

“Much higher”? Based on what? Narrow losses in conference and wins over Shorter?

Please list the signature OOC wins for the SoCon. Two of your teams got dominated by CAA opponents. The best hat hanger is close loss to FSU I guess?

The last winless BSC team just destroyed NAU (yeah jnjuries, but still) who beat a top 10 FCS the week before and an FBS by 20 earlier in the season. Another bottoms dweller, PSU, beat a ranked Montana at home who has a win against UNI.

A bottom half of the CAA Nova has a win against a decent Temple.

I’d like to see a list of OOC signature wins from the OVC and SLC as well.

I’m not sure all three shouldn’t be 1 bid conferences. Perhaps the SLC if Nicholls finishes runner up with their win over KU or if JSU finishes second with a win over KSU but otherwise....xcoffeex

I listed the OOC wins for the OVC somewhere. Weve got two wins against Morehead!!! Did have a win again the MVC albeit SIU. Almost forgot the signature win against Mississippi Valley State

[Thumper 76]

Stop. We don’t need your reverse psychology.

As an SDSU fan I can tell you this, better get used to that xlolx


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[POD Knows]

As an SDSU fan I can tell you this, better get used to that xlolx


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI picked your guys over ISUr in the MVFC pick 'em, Don't let me down. xlolx On the UND thing, they are playing pretty well, the game is at UND although the jury is out as to whether or not that is an advantage but I think they will beat Weber State. That is a serious prediction.

[LehighU11]

I really don't care that they will beat each other, we have no point of reference on any of these Ivy's. I got Princeton in my poll by default. First time I have ever had an Ivy in my poll, and probably the last. We have no idea how good or how bad they are.
The insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has regularly scheduled a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.

[geaux_sioux]

I picked your guys over ISUr in the MVFC pick 'em, Don't let me down. xlolx On the UND thing, they are playing pretty well, the game is at UND although the jury is out as to whether or not that is an advantage but I think they will beat Weber State. That is a serious prediction.

The last few years home games have been more treterous than road. We seem more focused and ready to go on the road.

[POD Knows]

Their insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has usually schedules a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.
Not buying it, I would however agree that the IL is deeper than the conferences you referenced. The Big South is a one trick pony, NEC and PFL, pretty weak, the Patriot, with the exception of Colgate, is a train wreck. Monmouth shouldn't have been in the playoffs last year, they got boat raced by a very average UNI team. Could Dartmouth and Princeton beat the bottom half of the AGS top 25, I literally have no idea but my guess is that they could pick off a few.

Also, thanks for the analysis, I might reference this again after this weekend if these also rans from the other conferences keep crapping the bed.

[Reign of Terrier]

“Much higher”? Based on what? Narrow losses in conference and wins over Shorter?

Please list the signature OOC wins for the SoCon. Two of your teams got dominated by CAA opponents. The best hat hanger is close loss to FSU I guess?

The last winless BSC team just destroyed NAU (yeah jnjuries, but still) who beat a top 10 FCS the week before and an FBS by 20 earlier in the season. Another bottoms dweller, PSU, beat a ranked Montana at home who has a win against UNI.

A bottom half of the CAA Nova has a win against a decent Temple.

I’d like to see a list of OOC signature wins from the OVC and SLC as well.

I’m not sure all three shouldn’t be 1 bid conferences. Perhaps the SLC if Nicholls finishes runner up with their win over KU or if JSU finishes second with a win over KSU but otherwise....xcoffeexThere is absolutely nothing impressive about wins of the bottom 6 or 7 of the CAA. Okay, Villanova beating Temple is impressive but the remaining wins of them and other teams are wins against (basically) Patriot league teams and each other.

If you're going to frame this in terms of OOC, yes the socon will not win this, but if you want to dumb down the discussion to preclude the possibility and make it boring, fine. OOC wins are only one variable among many.

The bottom of the Big Sky is pretty terrible. I'm not even going to debate that. Every conference beats up each other, but the aggregate performance of the bottom of the Big Sky is pretty laughably bad

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[Mayville Bison]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: UC Davis Aggies
4: Towson Tigers
5: Kennesaw State Owls
6: Weber State Wildcats
7: Eastern Washington Eagles
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Colgate Raiders
15: Stony Brook Seawolves
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: Idaho State Bengals
19: Chattanooga Mocs
20: McNeese State Cowboys
21: Nicholls State Colonels
22: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
23: Princeton Tigers
24: Dartmouth Big Green
25: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

Mayville Bison

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[POD Knows]

The last few years home games have been more treterous than road. We seem more focused and ready to go on the road.Yea, it kind of seems like that, it gave me a little pause in my prediction, I think UND wins 13-7 or something like that. It will be an ugly offensive game maybe.

[World]

The insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has regularly scheduled a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.


Well said

[kalm]

There is absolutely nothing impressive about wins of the bottom 6 or 7 of the CAA. Okay, Villanova beating Temple is impressive but the remaining wins of them and other teams are wins against (basically) Patriot league teams and each other.

If you're going to frame this in terms of OOC, yes the socon will not win this, but if you want to dumb down the discussion to preclude the possibility and make it boring, fine. OOC wins are only one variable among many.

The bottom of the Big Sky is pretty terrible. I'm not even going to debate that. Every conference beats up each other, but the aggregate performance of the bottom of the Big Sky is pretty laughably bad

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

You said "much better". What else do you base it on if the conference has a poor OOC showing? The bottom of the Southern was competitive with the middle and top half? xlolx And I didn't say the bottom of the CAA was "impressive" did I? However there's not much difference between beating PFL teams and the MEAC and DII's that the SoCon plays. Both conference's OOC's are relatively weak compared to the Valley and BSC.

Perhaps the reason the bottom of the CAA and Big sky are terrible is that the rest of the conference is better than the top of the SoCon?

What metrics are better in comparing two conferences than H2H which the SoCon loses badly to the CAA and quality wins and/or losses OOC?

Regarding the BSC, the bottom of every conference looks bad. But as mentioned PSU won at WGS against a then ranked Montana who's still in the running for a playoff spot. Aside from UNC's blowout out of NAU, they also lost by 3 to top 15 McNeese. SAC, SUU, and Poly are playing some poor football but they too have moral victories as impressive as anything the bottom of the SoCon has.

Are we supposed to be impressed because WCU and The Citadel played other middling teams like Furman and Mercer tough?

xlolx

[GoBlueHens83]

The insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has regularly scheduled a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.

So Yale beating Maine, who was without their starting QB if I am remembering correctly, and losing all their other games against CAA teams puts them on par with winning CAA teams? What?

[caribbeanhen]

The insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has regularly scheduled a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.

great summary, the main reason I got onboard the Ivy train this year is the "eye test" Dartmouth actually looks like a good football team with talent...... it's a shame they don't participate in the playoffs. I think they could do some serious damage, POD is a smart guy and he knows this, admitting it in public will not come easy for him...

I truly believe Dartmouth would beat Kennesaw State

[ksu_owls]

I truly believe Dartmouth would beat Kennesaw State

Are they really that good? I haven't ever watched an Ivy game.

[Reign of Terrier]

You said "much better". What else do you base it on if the conference has a poor OOC showing? The bottom of the Southern was competitive with the middle and top half? xlolx And I didn't say the bottom of the CAA was "impressive" did I? However there's not much difference between beating PFL teams and the MEAC and DII's that the SoCon plays. Both conference's OOC's are relatively weak compared to the Valley and BSC.

Perhaps the reason the bottom of the CAA and Big sky are terrible is that the rest of the conference is better than the top of the SoCon?

What metrics are better in comparing two conferences than H2H which the SoCon loses badly to the CAA and quality wins and/or losses OOC?

Regarding the BSC, the bottom of every conference looks bad. But as mentioned PSU won at WGS against a then ranked Montana who's still in the running for a playoff spot. Aside from UNC's blowout out of NAU, they also lost by 3 to top 15 McNeese. SAC, SUU, and Poly are playing some poor football but they too have moral victories as impressive as anything the bottom of the SoCon has.

Are we supposed to be impressed because WCU and The Citadel played other middling teams like Furman and Mercer tough?

xlolx

To be clear, The socon has less teams than the Big Sky, Southland, CAA and MVFC. That's an overlooked fact, which influences the overall records of these teams, which influences playoff positioning and SOS.

Our top tier is not on par with the CAA and MVFC. Wofford's probably an at-large in the CAA and you have to roll the dice in the MVFC to figure out anyone outside of NDSU and SDSU making the playoffs. If you took out the bottom 4 or so teams in the CAA, Southland, and Big Sky and made the remaining teams all play each other, you would see similar conference standings as you see in the Socon. Because those conferences are bigger and have lesser quality teams at the bottom and more quality teams at the top, the middle and top tiers get an advantage of a diluted in conference schedule. That's what I mean when I say the Socon has a higher floor.

Half of the socon is at .500 or better. Of the teams that aren't, Furman is a completely different team with their Redshirt senior playing QB than when their freshman QB with only one year of high school QB experience is playing. Give them a game at Colgate and a healthy QB against Samford and they're probably 4-2 right now with a more respectable showing at Elon. The Citadel will likely finish 7th in the Socon and they gave Towson a better (or at least comparable) game than ranked Stony Brook did. They're 2-4 right now, but 3 of their losses have come by a touchdown or less.

Western Carolina and VMI aren't great and I think it's futile to argue who would win among the bottom 2 of each conference, but the bottom 5 in the socon are *easily* better on average than the bottom 5 in the CAA, Southland and Big Sky. Even then VMI was competitive in three of their losses in the fourth quarter.

And if you just look at the general success these teams have in the playoffs compared to those conferences, The Socon has had more teams win a playoff game in the last 4 years than the Southland or Big Sky. the CAA and MVFC are a cut above, but the size of the CAA hides the poor quality of the lower tier.

[Birdman_]

Are they really that good? I haven't ever watched an Ivy game.

I'd imagine the point is less about Dartmouth, and more about how KSU is overrated. Honestly though, I have no idea how we'd fare against any of these teams - we're just now starting to introduce some variety into our schedule.

[World]

great summary, the main reason I got onboard the Ivy train this year is the "eye test" Dartmouth actually looks like a good football team with talent...... it's a shame they don't participate in the playoffs. I think they could do some serious damage, POD is a smart guy and he knows this, admitting it in public will not come easy for him...

I truly believe Dartmouth would beat Kennesaw State


good stuff

Pay attention to the result of the Princeton/Darmouth game in 2 weeks

[Bison56]

good stuff

Pay attention to the result of the Princeton/Darmouth game in 2 weeks

Why?

[Reign of Terrier]

The insular schedules of the Ivies, who play just 10 total games with 3 OOC, does make it tougher to evaluate some of their teams. Harvard has regularly scheduled a PFL, weaker PL, and then one other weaker team. Princeton regularly has Lehigh on their schedule with 2 weaker opponents, but this year's game against Lehigh doesn't tell much as Lehigh is awful and has given up. Yale, on the other hand, routinely schedules tough opponents. They beat Army in 2014 and have beaten decent Lehigh teams in recent years.

However, there is solid evidence that the Ivy has become much stronger in recent years--particularly 2018--besides simply observing the fall of the Patriot League. The Ivy League is 18-6 OOC this season. 3 of those 6 losses came in their openers. Ivy teams start play in week 3, so their opponents already have 2-3 games under their belt by then. 4 of the 6 losses have come against top 25 teams at the time of the game (Delaware, Colgate, Rhode Island 2x), while Yale has the lone top 25 win from a decisive 35-14 victory over Maine. Dartmouth throttled NEC 1st place (and likely this year's autobid) Sacred Heart 42-0, while mid-tier Ivies Cornell and Penn also beat Sacred Heart.

This shows that the Ivy League is not only better and deeper than the Big South, NEC, and Patriot League, but that their mid-tier to top-tier teams are on par with winning CAA and SoCon teams.

Big Sky: 0-1
Big South: 1-0
CAA: 1-3 (all CAA opponents were ranked top 25)
NEC: 4-0
PFL: 3-0
PL: 8-2
SoCon: 1-0

Dartmouth 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 41-0 Georgetown, 34-14 Holy Cross, 42-0 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place). Wins over Penn, Yale, and Columbia are all by 3+ scores.
Princeton 6-0, 3-0 OOC: 50-7 Butler, 51-9 Monmouth (5-2 to date, 2017 playoff team), 66-7 Lehigh . 35+ point wins against Columbia and Brown. Close win at Harvard.
Yale 4-2, 2-1 OOC: Lost 18-21 in opener to Holy Cross. Won 35-14 vs. Maine (top 25 team, 4-3, 3-1 CAA) and 35-28 vs. Mercer (currently 4-3, 3-1 in SoCon). Yale put up more points on Maine than either (albeit lousy) FBS opponent Maine faced.
Cornell 3-3, 1-2 OOC: Lost 27-10 in opener at Delaware (top 25 team), 31-0 at Colgate (top 25 team). Won 43-24 vs. Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place).
Penn 4-2, 3-0 OOC: 34-17 Bucknell, 30-10 Lehigh, 31-27 Sacred Heart (NEC 1st place)
Harvard 3-3 2-1 OOC: Lost 16-23 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 36-14 San Diego (PFL 1st place, 2017 playoff win) and 33-31 vs. Holy Cross.
Columbia 3-3, 3-0 OOC: Won 41-24 vs. CCSU, 23-15 Georgetown, 34-24 Marist.
Brown 1-5, 1-2 OOC: Lost 15-44 at Cal Poly in opener, 0-48 vs. Rhode Island (top 25 team). Won 35-7 vs. Georgetown.

Good post and I typically agree with it. The problem is that we still don't know how good Mercer is. They lost their starting QB against the Citadel, who is a good team even at 2-4 (3 games lost by a TD or less) and that was a very comparable game.

But then again, The socon is probably one of the most balanced leagues from 1-7

[ksu_owls]

I'd imagine the point is less about Dartmouth, and more about how KSU is overrated.

;) I figured that much. People forget how impressed they were with KSU's trip to the quarters. This year's more experienced team wins that game against SHSU. They definitely still would have been punched in the mouth pretty hard by NDSU, but I do think we have a legit shot at the semis. In a world were the Ivy teams played in the playoffs, I don't think Dartmouth makes it that far which also implies I think KSU is better.... but it's one opinion -vs- another around here and only time will tell for KSU in the playoffs this year. We'll never know how far Dartmouth could make it.

[World]

;) I figured that much. People forget how impressed they were with KSU's trip to the quarters. This year's more experienced team wins that game against SHSU. They definitely still would have been punched in the mouth pretty hard by NDSU, but I do think we have a legit shot at the semis. In a world were the Ivy teams played in the playoffs, I don't think Dartmouth makes it that far which also implies I think KSU is better.... but it's one opinion -vs- another around here and only time will tell for KSU in the playoffs this year. We'll never know how far Dartmouth could make it.

Again, pay attention to the results of the Princeton/Darmouth game in 2 weeks

[Bison56]

Again, pay attention to the results of the Princeton/Darmouth game in 2 weeks
Again, why?

[Cocky]

Are they really that good? I haven't ever watched an Ivy game.

Dartmouth and Princeton have solid teams. Believe a KSU vs either would be a good close game. This isnt a knock on KSU because either would play most FCS quality teams close.

[World]

Dartmouth and Princeton have solid teams. Believe a KSU vs either would be a good close game. This isnt a knock on KSU because either would play most FCS quality teams close.

I would agree on this

[Reign of Terrier]

Dartmouth and Princeton have solid teams. Believe a KSU vs either would be a good close game. This isnt a knock on KSU because either would play most FCS quality teams close.

When you realize that the FCS is really NDSU, JMU, and a random school (This year is it EWU? Weber? maybe UCD? Towson?) and then everybody else, it's a lot more predictable. I think that "random school" in years past would have been the national champ in an otherwise competitive field. The mid-tier of the subdivision is pretty well matched with each other. At some point, I'm going to look through playoff brackets and see if the FCS has grown less competitive at the top. It's an interesting hypothesis.

[grizband]

When you realize that the FCS is really NDSU, JMU, and a random school (This year is it EWU? Weber? maybe UCD? Towson?) and then everybody else, it's a lot more predictable. I think that "random school" in years past would have been the national champ in an otherwise competitive field. The mid-tier of the subdivision is pretty well matched with each other. At some point, I'm going to look through playoff brackets and see if the FCS has grown less competitive at the top. It's an interesting hypothesis.
Without doing much research, just my own observations of following FCS football closely since 2000, the top tier seems to have grown less competitive. Even considering we've only had 2 champions in the past 8 years, the other teams competing for the semi-finals every years appears stagnant over the past few years (aside from the one outlier you mentioned earlier).

[JSUSoutherner]

Again, why?
Cause it's the Bubble Battle.

The winner gets to claim they are the toughest nobody of them all. It's what happens when you play the same 10 teams every year for 15 years.

[caribbeanhen]

When you realize that the FCS is really NDSU, JMU, and a random school (This year is it EWU? Weber? maybe UCD? Towson?) and then everybody else, it's a lot more predictable. I think that "random school" in years past would have been the national champ in an otherwise competitive field. The mid-tier of the subdivision is pretty well matched with each other. At some point, I'm going to look through playoff brackets and see if the FCS has grown less competitive at the top. It's an interesting hypothesis.


FCS conferences put to musical groups

Paul McCartney and Wings - MVFC meaning the Bison and who the heck are the Wings anyway

Smokey Robinson and the Miracles = the MEAC because it will be a miracle if they ever win a playoff game

Benny and the Jets - the Big Sky.... I dont know who Benny is because this was a song not a group

Siouxsie and the Banshees - this is the North Dakota and the Independents

Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods - gotta be the Ivies because Bo looked so Biff singing Princeton dont be a hero no playoffs and come back to me

KC and the Sunshine Band = this is Sammy Houston and the rest of the Southland

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is the Ohio Valley because they always end the season broken hearted

George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers is none other than the CAA because it sounds cool

who is missing

SWAC - Known as the BB King Muddy Waters of Itta Bena half time show football conference

Patriot - Billy Joel and living here in Allentown..... closing all the factories down talent moved out of town, Patriot fans are a throwback to better times

Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we're living here in Allentown

[kalm]

To be clear, The socon has less teams than the Big Sky, Southland, CAA and MVFC. That's an overlooked fact, which influences the overall records of these teams, which influences playoff positioning and SOS.

Our top tier is not on par with the CAA and MVFC. Wofford's probably an at-large in the CAA and you have to roll the dice in the MVFC to figure out anyone outside of NDSU and SDSU making the playoffs. If you took out the bottom 4 or so teams in the CAA, Southland, and Big Sky and made the remaining teams all play each other, you would see similar conference standings as you see in the Socon. Because those conferences are bigger and have lesser quality teams at the bottom and more quality teams at the top, the middle and top tiers get an advantage of a diluted in conference schedule. That's what I mean when I say the Socon has a higher floor.

Half of the socon is at .500 or better. Of the teams that aren't, Furman is a completely different team with their Redshirt senior playing QB than when their freshman QB with only one year of high school QB experience is playing. Give them a game at Colgate and a healthy QB against Samford and they're probably 4-2 right now with a more respectable showing at Elon. The Citadel will likely finish 7th in the Socon and they gave Towson a better (or at least comparable) game than ranked Stony Brook did. They're 2-4 right now, but 3 of their losses have come by a touchdown or less.

Western Carolina and VMI aren't great and I think it's futile to argue who would win among the bottom 2 of each conference, but the bottom 5 in the socon are *easily* better on average than the bottom 5 in the CAA, Southland and Big Sky. Even then VMI was competitive in three of their losses in the fourth quarter.

And if you just look at the general success these teams have in the playoffs compared to those conferences, The Socon has had more teams win a playoff game in the last 4 years than the Southland or Big Sky. the CAA and MVFC are a cut above, but the size of the CAA hides the poor quality of the lower tier.

How does more teams influence SoS? What about geography influencing SoS? It ain't easy scheduling OOC in the West...especially winnable home games. You're pretty much reduced to home and homes with the Valley or other Big Sky teams you don't have on the conference schedule, or two FBS games.

Doesn't more teams cut both ways? Sure you might be able to skip a couple of the better teams in a given year, but you also may not. Case in point, NAU is basically playing 4 playoff caliber teams in conference plus EWU and and FBS out of conference. There's nothing close to that schedule in the SoCon. SUU is doing something similar plus Arizona and Oregon State.

Half the SoCon is .500 or better because of your OOC schedule and math.

So...what do you base "easily better" on exactly?

BTW, playoff results if looked at objectively including home games and SoS aren't as clear cut in supporting your argument either although I will admit the SoCon has had a resurgence the last couple of years. What I'd point to is Weber State who had to face a very solid WIU in the first round last year, followed by BSC Champ SUU, followed by JMU. Everyone had UNH in the top 10 heading into this season because they returned some starters and won two games in the playoffs last year. They barely beat CCSU who was missing key players and then upset an over-rated UCA. They were exposed by SDSU. Who you play, and where, in the playoffs matters if you want to be objective about results.

[katss07]

So Sam has a chance to prove themselves over these final weeks. Not sure if they get in at 8-3 but...since ACU and UIW are now “quality FCS teams” (didn’t think I’d say that for a few more years minimum) maybe the Kats can gain some votes back. Still not optimistic.

Honestly I’m happy to see the Cardinals and Wildcats doing well. Also happy to see JSU’s reign of terror over in the Other Valley Conference. Can’t wait to see what happens when they play Kennesaw...or more specifically what doesn’t happen. I like to see underdogs like SEMO making a headline.

[ST_Lawson]

Patriot - Billy Joel and living here in Allentown..... closing all the factories down talent moved out of town, Patriot fans are a throwback to better times

Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we're living here in Allentown

Ok, now that one is really accurate.

When I was doing drum and bugle corps (like, summer professional marching band), almost every year we'd have a show at J. Birney Crum Stadium and the morning of the show, we'd always get woken up with that song.

[Reign of Terrier]

FCS conferences put to musical groups

Paul McCartney and Wings - MVFC meaning the Bison and who the heck are the Wings anyway

Smokey Robinson and the Miracles = the MEAC because it will be a miracle if they ever win a playoff game

Benny and the Jets - the Big Sky.... I dont know who Benny is because this was a song not a group

Siouxsie and the Banshees - this is the North Dakota and the Independents

Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods - gotta be the Ivies because Bo looked so Biff singing Princeton dont be a hero no playoffs and come back to me

KC and the Sunshine Band = this is Sammy Houston and the rest of the Southland

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is the Ohio Valley because they always end the season broken hearted

George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers is none other than the CAA because it sounds cool

who is missing

SWAC - Known as the BB King Muddy Waters of Itta Bena half time show football conference

Patriot - Billy Joel and living here in Allentown..... closing all the factories down talent moved out of town, Patriot fans are a throwback to better times

Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we're living here in AllentownI am much too young for these metaphors

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[POD Knows]

I am much too young for these metaphors

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk:D I am an older dude and he lost me with this one.

[Reign of Terrier]

How does more teams influence SoS? What about geography influencing SoS? It ain't easy scheduling OOC in the West...especially winnable home games. You're pretty much reduced to home and homes with the Valley or other Big Sky teams you don't have on the conference schedule, or two FBS games.

Doesn't more teams cut both ways? Sure you might be able to skip a couple of the better teams in a given year, but you also may not. Case in point, NAU is basically playing 4 playoff caliber teams in conference plus EWU and and FBS out of conference. There's nothing close to that schedule in the SoCon. SUU is doing something similar plus Arizona and Oregon State.

Half the SoCon is .500 or better because of your OOC schedule and math.

So...what do you base "easily better" on exactly?

BTW, playoff results if looked at objectively including home games and SoS aren't as clear cut in supporting your argument either although I will admit the SoCon has had a resurgence the last couple of years. What I'd point to is Weber State who had to face a very solid WIU in the first round last year, followed by BSC Champ SUU, followed by JMU. Everyone had UNH in the top 10 heading into this season because they returned some starters and won two games in the playoffs last year. They barely beat CCSU who was missing key players and then upset an over-rated UCA. They were exposed by SDSU. Who you play, and where, in the playoffs matters if you want to be objective about results.It's easily better because every team except VMI and maybe Western at bottom and Wofford at the top are a score away from having very different records. Chattanooga lost 1 game by 3 (could be 6-1!). Citadel lost 3 games by 7 or less. Mercer lost 2 games by 7. Samford lost 2 games by 6 or less.

The outliers are Wofford, Furman, Western and VMI. Furman, as we have already discussed is a different team without their senior QB. Ironically, the biggest blowout in the top 7 was Furman over Wofford, and Wofford has beaten every other team they've played in conference by double digits.

Even then, our doormats are a little more competitive with the middle and top tier than the other aforementioned conference bottom feeders (I glanced at them earlier and don't have the scores of said conferences memorized). As bad as Western's defense is, they were 2 scores away from being top tier in the conference in 2 games. VMI was competitive in the fourth quarter with 4 teams. I know everyone has moral victories for their bottom feeders, but this wasn't the case last year with the exact programs.

Looking at just the teams a schedule has played and not the manner and consistency of those games, is the equivalent of just giving away a participation trophy.

Maybe the style of football the socon plays makes it more competitive. We have 3 teams that run some sort of option or multiple option look, 3 that run an air raid or spread, and another 3 that run pro sets. Maybe this diversity creates varying paces and closer games because defenses have to adjust week to week. From what little I've seen of the Big Sky, Southland and CAA is that it's more pro or spread oriented, which makes teams more liable to score a lot of points. Maybe.

But at the end of the day, games are just closer, on average, in the socon. Or at least it looks that way from a glance. I concede that our scheduling isn't great, but I don't know how you can conclude that OOC is inflating our record. Socon records look like this:

Wofford 5-1
ETSU 4-1
Mercer 3-1
Furman 2-2
Samford 3-2
Chattanooga 3-2
Citadel 2-3
Western 1-4
VMI 0-6

OOC wins are only really inflating ETSU, Western, ans Chattanooga. Wofford thus far has only been inflated by 1 game.

But even then, Chattanooga has a quality win against Samford and a bad but not terrible showing against Wofford. ETSU has beaten Chattanooga. And you could go on.

My theory is if you switched the schedules and records with names on here (replace ETSU with Samford and Chattanooga with Furman) we would be having a much different conversation. Between the start up programs (ETSU and Mercer) either predictably improving or no longer being start ups or the fact that some people have short attention spans (Chattanooga beat an MVFC team I think a couple years ago in the playoffs!), people just assume the socon is bad. OOC is part of it, but it's not the whole story.

This isn't about me defending Wofford. Wofford is a perrennial quarterfinalist that will make the playoffs at 8-3 (or better) because we're good to win or be competitive in at least a first round game (unless we draw NDSU). Wofford doesn't need to be defended. So my motive isn't justifying Wofford's position. We'll get in and prove it on the field (usually).

But having watched Socon football for over 10 years, I can tell you the conference is at its most balanced it's ever been. The ceiling isn't as high, but the floor is higher. Anyone on the top 7 can beat anyone if the right things happens and the games are relatively close this year. I can't say that about other conferences.




Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[caribbeanhen]

I am much too young for these metaphors

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

most of that is that 70s generation, anyone under 45 is not going to most of that but dont tell me youve never heard of any of those bands, good lord son

[Vandal03]

This week I paid close attention to strength of schedule when voting to reward teams with difficult schedules. Before the season began I could not have imagined voting UC Davis #2.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Elon Phoenix
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Kennesaw State Owls
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Wofford Terriers
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
15: Idaho State Bengals
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Princeton Tigers
20: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
21: Maine Black Bears
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
25: North Carolina A&T Aggies

Vandal03

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

[ElCid]

FCS conferences put to musical groups

KC and the Sunshine Band = this is Sammy Houston and the rest of the Southland


Man, I always viewed SHSU as like Mick Jagged and the Rolling Stones......

I can't get no satisfaction, I can't get no satisfaction
'Cause I try and I try and I try and I try
I can't get no, I can't get no


Plus you forgot the SOCON and Big South.

Big South could be Creedence Clearwater Revival. Never had a #1 hit but made the top 40 a bunch...there's a Bad moon a'rising.

And the SOCON. Dare I say they are the Beatles. Old band, lots of number 1 hits, but where also, a bunch a members thought they could do better on their own and left. LOL.

But, Here comes the Sun....

Little darling, it's been a long cold lonely winter
Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun
Here comes the sun, and I say
It's all right

[ST_Lawson]

most of that is that 70s generation, anyone under 45 is not going to most of that but dont tell me youve never heard of any of those bands, good lord son

I'm 40 and the only one I didn't know was Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods, but my parents were never really into disco or the real "pop-type" stuff. I grew up listening to The Beatles, Zepplin, Stones, The Who, Aerosmith, Fleetwood Mac...that kind of stuff (I know, some of that was a bit earlier than the mid-70's, but most of them were putting stuff out into the 70s or even 80s.

[Vandal03]

FCS conferences put to musical groups

Paul McCartney and Wings - MVFC meaning the Bison and who the heck are the Wings anyway

Smokey Robinson and the Miracles = the MEAC because it will be a miracle if they ever win a playoff game

Benny and the Jets - the Big Sky.... I dont know who Benny is because this was a song not a group

Siouxsie and the Banshees - this is the North Dakota and the Independents

Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods - gotta be the Ivies because Bo looked so Biff singing Princeton dont be a hero no playoffs and come back to me

KC and the Sunshine Band = this is Sammy Houston and the rest of the Southland

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is the Ohio Valley because they always end the season broken hearted

George Thorogood and the Delaware Destroyers is none other than the CAA because it sounds cool

who is missing

SWAC - Known as the BB King Muddy Waters of Itta Bena half time show football conference

Patriot - Billy Joel and living here in Allentown..... closing all the factories down talent moved out of town, Patriot fans are a throwback to better times

Well we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line
Well our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow
And we're living here in Allentown

Most of the FCS schools are the band that plays at small county fairs or on the local indyrock station. A few schools like NDSU and JMU are Green Day when they released Kerplunk or Macklemore performing at the Mariners’ 2010 opening day. My Idaho Vandals are the Pete Best of college football.

[Cocky]

This week I paid close attention to strength of schedule when voting to reward teams with difficult schedules. Before the season began I could not have imagined voting UC Davis #2.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Elon Phoenix
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Towson Tigers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
8: Weber State Wildcats
9: Kennesaw State Owls
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Wofford Terriers
13: Northern Iowa Panthers
14: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
15: Idaho State Bengals
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Central Arkansas Bears
18: Dartmouth Big Green
19: Princeton Tigers
20: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
21: Maine Black Bears
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: Chattanooga Mocs
24: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
25: North Carolina A&T Aggies

Vandal03

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference




Im confused are we voting for the best team or the hardest schedule?

[JSUSoutherner]

So Sam has a chance to prove themselves over these final weeks. Not sure if they get in at 8-3 but...since ACU and UIW are now “quality FCS teams” (didn’t think I’d say that for a few more years minimum) maybe the Kats can gain some votes back. Still not optimistic.

Honestly I’m happy to see the Cardinals and Wildcats doing well. Also happy to see JSU’s reign of terror over in the Other Valley Conference. Can’t wait to see what happens when they play Kennesaw...or more specifically what doesn’t happen. I like to see underdogs like SEMO making a headline.
Oh I'm sure you're loving it. I'm sure you'd be talking mad **** too if your team hadn't gotten dump trucked by Lamar.

[katss07]

Oh I'm sure you're loving it. I'm sure you'd be talking mad **** too if your team hadn't gotten dump trucked by Lamar.
We can suck...TOGETHER!xhypedxxhugx

[I Bleed Purple]

Just to clarify something that I saw in the first post of this thread, the Weber QB that dislocated and broke his ankle was the backup QB. At least, he'd taken fewer snaps than the other one.

[Bison56]

I'm 40 and the only one I didn't know was Bo Donaldson and the Heywoods, but my parents were never really into disco or the real "pop-type" stuff. I grew up listening to The Beatles, Zepplin, Stones, The Who, Aerosmith, Fleetwood Mac...that kind of stuff (I know, some of that was a bit earlier than the mid-70's, but most of them were putting stuff out into the 70s or even 80s.

That is the only one I didnt recognize either.

[TheRevSFA]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: UC Davis Aggies
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Towson Tigers
7: Weber State Wildcats
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Stony Brook Seawolves
11: Idaho State Bengals
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Incarnate Word Cardinals
18: McNeese State Cowboys
19: Abilene Christian Wildcats
20: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
21: Princeton Tigers
22: Maine Black Bears
23: Rhode Island Rams
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Biggest Win: UNI
Biggest Loss: JSU

I moved EWU ahead of WSU due to the QB situation with the season ending injury. This is one the first polls that I was not pleased with.

A few notes:

-I still don't understand why people are ragging on ISUo
-ISUr is not a T10 team as of right now
-SDSU at 10 is a complete shocker and above UNI is even more puzzling
-What has Colgate done to warrant #13

ACU?

[WestCoastAggie]

When you realize that the FCS is really NDSU, JMU, and a random school (This year is it EWU? Weber? maybe UCD? Towson?) and then everybody else, it's a lot more predictable. I think that "random school" in years past would have been the national champ in an otherwise competitive field. The mid-tier of the subdivision is pretty well matched with each other. At some point, I'm going to look through playoff brackets and see if the FCS has grown less competitive at the top. It's an interesting hypothesis.

This is true on all levels of NCAA Football. The amount kids playing the sport dwindling is affecting everyone.

[WileECoyote06]

When you realize that the FCS is really NDSU, JMU, and a random school (This year is it EWU? Weber? maybe UCD? Towson?) and then everybody else, it's a lot more predictable. I think that "random school" in years past would have been the national champ in an otherwise competitive field. The mid-tier of the subdivision is pretty well matched with each other. At some point, I'm going to look through playoff brackets and see if the FCS has grown less competitive at the top. It's an interesting hypothesis.

You get what you pay for. xthumbsupx

[The Yo Show]

Been meaning to post this, sorry it is two days late to be shown, been crazy busy lately. Either way, despite being late I fully envision plenty of criticism. But that's good it will give me more to think about and consider during my voting for this week.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Weber State Wildcats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Illinois State Redbirds
7: Towson Tigers
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Kennesaw State Owls
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Northern Iowa Panthers
13: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Chattanooga Mocs
16: Colgate Raiders
17: Rhode Island Rams
18: Maine Black Bears
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Princeton Tigers
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
23: Dartmouth Big Green
24: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
25: North Carolina A&T Aggies

The Yo Show

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[clenz]

I have no issue if someone wants to justify SDSU over UNI.

I have an issue with anyone saying SDSU is anything more than 2 or 3 spots higher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

Hello dbackjon,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 17:29:03

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: UC Davis Aggies
3: Kennesaw State Owls
4: James Madison Dukes
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Towson Tigers
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Colgate Raiders
10: Illinois State Redbirds
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Central Arkansas Bears
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Northern Iowa Panthers
15: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16: Idaho State Bengals
17: Princeton Tigers
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
20: Southeast Missouri State Redhawks
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
23: Dartmouth Big Green
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: Incarnate Word Cardinals

dbackjon

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

[kalm]

It's easily better because every team except VMI and maybe Western at bottom and Wofford at the top are a score away from having very different records. Chattanooga lost 1 game by 3 (could be 6-1!). Citadel lost 3 games by 7 or less. Mercer lost 2 games by 7. Samford lost 2 games by 6 or less.

Are we still arguing which conference's bottom dwellers are better? xlolxCompetitiveness is not necessarily the same as quality. What if they're all having close losses to mediocre teams?

The outliers are Wofford, Furman, Western and VMI. Furman, as we have already discussed is a different team without their senior QB. Ironically, the biggest blowout in the top 7 was Furman over Wofford, and Wofford has beaten every other team they've played in conference by double digits.

Every conference has outliers. Cal Poly lost by one score to Weber. NAU got blown out by a winless UNC.

Even then, our doormats are a little more competitive with the middle and top tier than the other aforementioned conference bottom feeders (I glanced at them earlier and don't have the scores of said conferences memorized). As bad as Western's defense is, they were 2 scores away from being top tier in the conference in 2 games. VMI was competitive in the fourth quarter with 4 teams. I know everyone has moral victories for their bottom feeders, but this wasn't the case last year with the exact programs.

Single game outcomes. Grambling nearly picked off and FBS recently. A terrible Idaho State beat Nevada last year.

Looking at just the teams a schedule has played and not the manner and consistency of those games, is the equivalent of just giving away a participation trophy

How about looking at both?
xcoffeex

Maybe the style of football the socon plays makes it more competitive. We have 3 teams that run some sort of option or multiple option look, 3 that run an air raid or spread, and another 3 that run pro sets. Maybe this diversity creates varying paces and closer games because defenses have to adjust week to week. From what little I've seen of the Big Sky, Southland and CAA is that it's more pro or spread oriented, which makes teams more liable to score a lot of points. Maybe.

The Big Sky has 4 teams ranked in the top 20 in rushing and 7 in the top 50. Cal Poly is a pure TO attack, and PSU runs mostly option.

But at the end of the day, games are just closer, on average, in the socon. Or at least it looks that way from a glance. I concede that our scheduling isn't great, but I don't know how you can conclude that OOC is inflating our record. Socon records look like this:

Wofford 5-1
ETSU 4-1
Mercer 3-1
Furman 2-2
Samford 3-2
Chattanooga 3-2
Citadel 2-3
Western 1-4
VMI 0-6

OOC wins are only really inflating ETSU, Western, ans Chattanooga. Wofford thus far has only been inflated by 1 game.

It depends on who you play OOC

But even then, Chattanooga has a quality win against Samford and a bad but not terrible showing against Wofford. ETSU has beaten Chattanooga. And you could go on.

Again...mediocre teams playing it tight with other mediocre teams. No different than the Big Sky.

My theory is if you switched the schedules and records with names on here (replace ETSU with Samford and Chattanooga with Furman) we would be having a much different conversation. Between the start up programs (ETSU and Mercer) either predictably improving or no longer being start ups or the fact that some people have short attention spans (Chattanooga beat an MVFC team I think a couple years ago in the playoffs!), people just assume the socon is bad. OOC is part of it, but it's not the whole story.

Chatty destroyed Weber a couple of years ago but you're still focusing mostly on what happens within the conference. Hey, look! The NEC is beating each other up! They all must be good!

This isn't about me defending Wofford. Wofford is a perrennial quarterfinalist that will make the playoffs at 8-3 (or better) because we're good to win or be competitive in at least a first round game (unless we draw NDSU). Wofford doesn't need to be defended. So my motive isn't justifying Wofford's position. We'll get in and prove it on the field (usually).

But having watched Socon football for over 10 years, I can tell you the conference is at its most balanced it's ever been. The ceiling isn't as high, but the floor is higher. Anyone on the top 7 can beat anyone if the right things happens and the games are relatively close this year. I can't say that about other conferences.

Of course you can say that about other conferences. ISUb took SDSU to overtime. In Eastern's title run we had close games with several bottom dwellers. Upsets happen in every conference. Do more happen in the SoCon? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the conference as a whole or the bottom dwellers are superior.

BTW, good discussion, YT. I truly appreciate it. xthumbsupx

[kalm]

Hello kalm,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/21/2018 16:39:15

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: UC Davis Aggies
4: Towson Tigers
5: Weber State Wildcats
6: Illinois State Redbirds
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
10: Kennesaw State Owls
11: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
14: Wofford Terriers
15: Colgate Raiders
16: McNeese State Cowboys
17: Maine Black Bears
18: Northern Iowa Panthers
19: Idaho State Bengals
20: Nicholls State Colonels
21: Missouri State Bears
22: Central Arkansas Bears
23: East Tennessee State Buccaneers
24: Montana State Bobcats
25: Jacksonville State Gamecocks

kalm

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Big Sky Conference

[Derby City Duke]

My streak of weeks being happy with my poll ends at one.

Would've posted this yesterday when I got my email back from Ursus, but at 6:30 last night Mrs. DCD and I decided to go to Elton John's Farewell Yellow Brick Road concert at KFC Yum! Center (show started at 8). We got tickets, parked and got into the cponcert in under 90 minutes! Awesome show -- the man can absolutely tear up a piano keyboard. If you like his music and he's coming anywhere near you -- go see him. Heck, percussionist Ray Cooper is almost worth the price of admission.

Back to my poll -- selected Rhody for biggest loss mostly because they got curb-stomped in a game that was critical to their playoff hopes.

After 13, it was like deciding which leftover to eat -- all kind of blah and mostly a case of which one would least screw up my digestive tract...


Hello Derby City Duke,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/22/2018 7:11:42

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: UC Davis Aggies
4: Towson Tigers
5: Kennesaw State Owls
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Stony Brook Seawolves
8: Elon Phoenix
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: Northern Iowa Panthers
11: Weber State Wildcats
12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
13: Wofford Terriers
14: Central Arkansas Bears
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: Princeton Tigers
17: Colgate Raiders
18: North Dakota Fighting Hawks
19: Western Illinois Leathernecks
20: Nicholls State Colonels
21: Murray State Racers
22: Idaho State Bengals
23: Samford Bulldogs
24: North Carolina A&T Aggies
25: East Tennessee State Buccaneers

Derby City Duke

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Rhode Island Rams