Georgetown Final Four = Football Improvement?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

With Georgetown making it to the Final Four, I'm thinking that some of the monetary problems occurring at Georgetown's athletic department may be alleviated.

Can someone who knows more than I do explain how Georgetown's Final Four helps the athletic department? Presumably there will be more sponsorship deals, prize money for making the Final Four, more alumni giving, etc.

Could this be the event that awakens the "sleeping giant" in Georgetown football?

[appfan2008]

I doubt it... DC and Georgetown dont care about football

[89Hen]

I doubt it... DC and Georgetown dont care about football
xcoolx

[youwouldno]

Oh it's going to mean a ton of $$$. Don't look for any of that to go towards anything football-related.

[89Hen]

With Georgetown making it to the Final Four, I'm thinking that some of the monetary problems occurring at Georgetown's athletic department may be alleviated.
AFAIK the two are unrelated. It's not the AD, it's the school in general not wanting to pay for things on 'credit'. They've built a ton of new buildings on campus all of which have to be paid for. I don't think G'town making it to the FF will have much of an impact on football at all.

[WUTNDITWAA]

I doubt it... DC and Georgetown dont care about football

DC cares about football. In fact, the passion for the Redskins is what stunts FB growth at any of the area colleges.

[andy7171]

I doubt it... DC and Georgetown dont care about football
Don't care about FCS football, true. Most big cities don't.

[putter]

Each win makes more money for their conference and then the teams split up the pot. I think Montana's win last year was worth $125k to the Big Sky.

[LBPop]

While you might think I know about this stuff, I'm still having trouble accepting the reality of how little money this football program has. Having said that, I'm going to speculate that increased enthusiasm in sports at Georgetown will increase alumni contributions. While the administration will probably not divert NCAA tournament money to football, some contributions to the athletic department could probably find their way to football.

DFW is the real expert here and my guess is that he will see the title of this thread and weigh in with some real insight...not my guesses/speculation.

[appfan2008]

DC cares about football. In fact, the passion for the Redskins is what stunts FB growth at any of the area colleges.
that is exactly what i meant... I know they love redskins but fcs just aint their thing

[LBPop]

that is exactly what i meant... I know they love redskins but fcs just aint their thing

Like most fans, the folks in DC like to back a winner. I have maintained since I became a Hoya Dad that if this team started winning, it would become kind of a "boutique" team in the area and get some support from the community. The location is wonderful, the nearby post-game locations for celebrations/lamenting losses are plentiful, and the city is generally proud of having a school of this quality within its boundries. All they need to do is win. Saying that reminds me of the old Steve Martin routine:

"How to Earn a Million Dollars and pay no taxes. First, you earn a million dollars..."

:D

[DFW HOYA]

Lots of interesting comments, here, let me see if I can answer some.


Can someone who knows more than I do explain how Georgetown's Final Four helps the athletic department?

The farther a team goes in the NCAA tournament, the more "credits" it accumulates which, over a six year period, are returned to the schools as checks by the NCAA. The revenues from this year's run will therefore be spread out over a six year period.

When the Hoyas regularly made the NCAA's (18 bids between 1979-97), much of that revenue went towards upgrading all the sports; though, for most of the time, football's budget was somewhat capped due to its playing level. Football stands to be an indirect beneficiary of basketball's success, but it is by no means the only sport needing help.

Georgetown often succeeds despite itself. This is a school with a top 10 track program, but no track. A nationally regarded crew team without a boathouse. Teams share locker room space because there isn't enough for everyone. Even basketball lacks a practice facility and must share time in the gym with other sports. The school offers fewer scholarships of any kind than any Big East school and that's a huge problem when the cost of a year's education is hovering at $47,000 a year.

Football gets criticized here by our PL brethren for being behind the curve financially, but its budget has roughly tripled in the last five years, and no other sport at Georgetown can say as much. The school president (a walk-on QB in 1976) has been very supportive of football, but there are certainly a lot of needs that must be addressed as well. Some of Georgetown's biggest football donors live in the Atlanta area so their voices will be heard this weekend as well.


In fact, the passion for the Redskins is what stunts FB growth at any of the area colleges.

Sunday with the Redskins aren't holding back anyone on a Saturday. One thing that does hold back attendance is the lack of local kids at these schools. What's the percentage of McNeese kids that grew up within an hour of campus? What about YSU or UDel? Georgetown draws proportionately fewer alumni from the local area than most colleges --for example, only 3% of students come from DC and more kids come from California than Maryland and Virginia combined. By contrast, 76% of Maryland's students are in-state residents.

The generic Multi-Sport Field isn't (yet) a destination. There are probably 60 surface parking spaces left on campus, the bleachers are spartan at best, and it's not family friendly. But it's a huge improvement from where it was before, as anyone who ever saw a game atop "the roof" (Kehoe Field) can attest.

But LBPop has it right, though--winning solves a lot of these issues, plain and simple. The extra checks can't hurt, either.

[*****]

can't help it, I am still hearing that a capella Georgetown fight song (http://guhoyas.cstv.com/genrel/090905aaa.html)... "there goes old Georgetown, straight for a touchdown..."

[89Hen]

Like most fans, the folks in DC like to back a winner.
Understatement of the year Pop. I think the abundance of choices that are considered "local" teams is actually a detriment to the sports scene here. If you go someplaces in the south, the coverage is all about a couple teams, win or lose. Here they (the media and fans) jump on and off of bandwagons so quickly it will make your head spin.

DC's "local" teams that have had their day in the sun over the last 10-15 years...

Washington Redskins - always #1
Washington Nationals - new kid in town
Washington Wizards - playoff team as of recent
Washington Capitals - out now, but made the Cup finals not that long ago
Baltimore Orioles - were the darlings before the Nats
Baltimore Ravens - when the Skins are bad they pick up a lot of press
Maryland Terrapins - Men's and Women's bball titles, Orange Bowl, lacrosse
Georgetown Hoyas - Final Four fever this year (also their 100th anniversary year)
George Mason Patriots - the FF darlings last year
Virginia Tech Hokies - Beamer ball
Virginia Cavaliers - Made a great run this year in the regular season
Navy Midshipmen - Lacrosse champs, bowl bound the last couple
George Washington Colonials - had a couple good years in mbb

What is sickening to me is that they Washington Post and the whole area will embrace a team doing well and act like they've always loved and promoted them, then as soon as the run is over, back page one paragraph. A good example of this is when UVA beat FSU in football back in mid-90's. I still have the newspaper somewhere... front page, giant headline, color photo... VT was back page news. Fast forward a couple years and they're like UVA who... we're all about the HOKIES and Terps! xnonono2x

[89Hen]

BTW, quite timely... guess who called Mrs89 (a G'town Law grad) last night to solicit for the annual drive? xeyebrowx A big xthumbsupx for them though, striking while the iron is hot. She calls down the hall while on the phone and asks, "OK if we give to the G'town annual fund again this year?" to which I reply... "Of course, since they made the final four." ;)

[LBPop]

Lots of interesting comments, here, let me see if I can answer some.


Whew! You sure did. Thanks for enlightening all of us. xthumbsupx

[LBPop]

BTW, quite timely... guess who called Mrs89 (a G'town Law grad) last night to solicit for the annual drive? xeyebrowx A big xthumbsupx for them though, striking while the iron is hot. She calls down the hall while on the phone and asks, "OK if we give to the G'town annual fund again this year?" to which I reply... "Of course, since they made the final four." ;)

Now we just have to get you back for one more football game before LBKid graduates. Five opportunities in 2007 and a couple of comped tickets can be arranged. xnodx

[89Hen]

Now we just have to get you back for one more football game before LBKid graduates. Five opportunities in 2007 and a couple of comped tickets can be arranged. xnodx
I'll make it to one. :)

[Pard4Life]

For the sake of Lafayette football, I hope Georgetown remains where it is... we don't need another titan rival.. xrotatehx

[MplsBison]

Is scholarship football at Georgetown ever going to be a possibility?

Probably would mean cutting some other men's sports.

[aceinthehole]

Lots of interesting comments, here, let me see if I can answer some.



The farther a team goes in the NCAA tournament, the more "credits" it accumulates which, over a six year period, are returned to the schools as checks by the NCAA. The revenues from this year's run will therefore be spread out over a six year period.

When the Hoyas regularly made the NCAA's (18 bids between 1979-97), much of that revenue went towards upgrading all the sports; though, for most of the time, football's budget was somewhat capped due to its playing level. Football stands to be an indirect beneficiary of basketball's success, but it is by no means the only sport needing help.

Georgetown often succeeds despite itself. This is a school with a top 10 track program, but no track. A nationally regarded crew team without a boathouse. Teams share locker room space because there isn't enough for everyone. Even basketball lacks a practice facility and must share time in the gym with other sports. The school offers fewer scholarships of any kind than any Big East school and that's a huge problem when the cost of a year's education is hovering at $47,000 a year.

Football gets criticized here by our PL brethren for being behind the curve financially, but its budget has roughly tripled in the last five years, and no other sport at Georgetown can say as much. The school president (a walk-on QB in 1976) has been very supportive of football, but there are certainly a lot of needs that must be addressed as well. Some of Georgetown's biggest football donors live in the Atlanta area so their voices will be heard this weekend as well.



Sunday with the Redskins aren't holding back anyone on a Saturday. One thing that does hold back attendance is the lack of local kids at these schools. What's the percentage of McNeese kids that grew up within an hour of campus? What about YSU or UDel? Georgetown draws proportionately fewer alumni from the local area than most colleges --for example, only 3% of students come from DC and more kids come from California than Maryland and Virginia combined. By contrast, 76% of Maryland's students are in-state residents.

The generic Multi-Sport Field isn't (yet) a destination. There are probably 60 surface parking spaces left on campus, the bleachers are spartan at best, and it's not family friendly. But it's a huge improvement from where it was before, as anyone who ever saw a game atop "the roof" (Kehoe Field) can attest.

But LBPop has it right, though--winning solves a lot of these issues, plain and simple. The extra checks can't hurt, either.

A great post with some real insight! I'm in DC and your post ring very true (as does 89s post about front runners). The transient nature of most DC residents (most who have graduated from another school) also doesn't help to support G-town.

Just a question, do you think the fiscal/facility situation is similar at the other non-Big East football schools in the BE, such as Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, 'Nova, DePaul, Marquette? I would guess these schools have similar issues, as they are also smaller private institutions and in a major metro area.

Not to derail this thread, but does the basketball money offset the need to seperate from the BE-Football schools that have more resources, such as UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, etc.?

Just wondering from your perspective (and G-Town's), is the BE split that has been debated by many really on the horizon in the next few years?

[andy7171]

Is scholarship football at Georgetown ever going to be a possibility?

Probably would mean cutting some other men's sports.
Patriot League teams don't give "scholarships", they have a more PC name for it.
Athletic Tuition Assistance?

[MplsBison]

Right, so they'd have to move out of the PL for football.

[LBPop]

Patriot League teams don't give "scholarships", they have a more PC name for it.
Athletic Tuition Assistance?

I understand your implied sarcasm here, but I can tell you that this seemingly minor distinction has cost one family that I know pretty well a bunch of money.

[89Hen]

I understand your implied sarcasm here, but I can tell you that this seemingly minor distinction has cost one family that I know pretty well a bunch of money.
You just earn too much to qualify for assistance. :p

[LBPop]

You just earn too much to qualify for assistance. :p

Ah, so we're taking shots, are we?;)

The real question about earning "too much" is according to whom? The formula is a disaster, but don't get me started. Of course you know that my point is that with a scholarship program, Bill Gates' kid would get money. Now there's an image for you...Bill Gates' kid in a football uniform. xlolx

[89Hen]

Must be Catholic accounting. I heard that to get assistance for HS around here we should buy a second home. xconfusedx

[andy7171]

I understand your implied sarcasm here, but I can tell you that this seemingly minor distinction has cost one family that I know pretty well a bunch of money.
I'm just having fun.
xsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

Understatement of the year Pop. I think the abundance of choices that are considered "local" teams is actually a detriment to the sports scene here. If you go someplaces in the south, the coverage is all about a couple teams, win or lose. Here they (the media and fans) jump on and off of bandwagons so quickly it will make your head spin.

DC's "local" teams that have had their day in the sun over the last 10-15 years...

Washington Redskins - always #1
Washington Nationals - new kid in town
Washington Wizards - playoff team as of recent
Washington Capitals - out now, but made the Cup finals not that long ago
Baltimore Orioles - were the darlings before the Nats
Baltimore Ravens - when the Skins are bad they pick up a lot of press
Maryland Terrapins - Men's and Women's bball titles, Orange Bowl, lacrosse
Georgetown Hoyas - Final Four fever this year (also their 100th anniversary year)
George Mason Patriots - the FF darlings last year
Virginia Tech Hokies - Beamer ball
Virginia Cavaliers - Made a great run this year in the regular season
Navy Midshipmen - Lacrosse champs, bowl bound the last couple
George Washington Colonials - had a couple good years in mbb

What is sickening to me is that they Washington Post and the whole area will embrace a team doing well and act like they've always loved and promoted them, then as soon as the run is over, back page one paragraph. A good example of this is when UVA beat FSU in football back in mid-90's. I still have the newspaper somewhere... front page, giant headline, color photo... VT was back page news. Fast forward a couple years and they're like UVA who... we're all about the HOKIES and Terps! xnonono2x

I remember that game in 1995 - a titanic upset!

[DFW HOYA]

Is scholarship football at Georgetown ever going to be a possibility? Probably would mean cutting some other men's sports.

Anything's a possibility, but Georgetown is not in the business of cutting sports to do so. Its 27 teams is the most in the Big East, but georgetown subscribes more to the "Athletics for All" philosophy than dropping down to the NCAA minimums to float one or two big sports.


Just a question, do you think the fiscal/facility situation is similar at the other non-Big East football schools in the BE, such as Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, 'Nova, DePaul, Marquette? I would guess these schools have similar issues, as they are also smaller private institutions and in a major metro area. Not to derail this thread, but does the basketball money offset the need to seperate from the BE-Football schools that have more resources, such as UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, etc.? Just wondering from your perspective (and G-Town's), is the BE split that has been debated by many really on the horizon in the next few years?

The issues at Georgetown are different than those at all of the schools you cited except Villanova, which happens to be the other I-AA/FCS school in the mix. The other schools offer a limited number of sports, and thus focus more of their budgets solely to basketball, which tends to make them more money. At Georgetown, basketball is about 20% of the overall budget, so there's more to pay for.

I don't think anyone on the "basketball" side of the BE fence things they can't compete with Louisville, WV, etc. This year is a good example of that--teams were evenly matched at the top, middle, and bottom among the two camps. Those that do argue for a split tend to be from places like Lousiville and UC, which would rather see similar schools to them (Memphis and ECU) instead of the Hall and PC.

Overall, the schools seem to get along, and the TV money/exposure is a big plus. Rest assured Georgetown doesn't get the same level of recruits and attendance as an A-10 or CAA school and its range of athletic programs certainly doesn't fit those leagues either.

[ngineer]

A great post with some real insight! I'm in DC and your post ring very true (as does 89s post about front runners). The transient nature of most DC residents (most who have graduated from another school) also doesn't help to support G-town.

Just a question, do you think the fiscal/facility situation is similar at the other non-Big East football schools in the BE, such as Providence, Seton Hall, St. Johns, 'Nova, DePaul, Marquette? I would guess these schools have similar issues, as they are also smaller private institutions and in a major metro area.

Not to derail this thread, but does the basketball money offset the need to seperate from the BE-Football schools that have more resources, such as UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, etc.?

Just wondering from your perspective (and G-Town's), is the BE split that has been debated by many really on the horizon in the next few years?

I think the basketball money situation is one of the keys to keeping Villanova from the Patriot League, which wants an 'all sport' school joining as opposed to another 'associate' member.

[igo4uni]

"OK if we give to the G'town annual fund again this year?" to which I reply... "Of course,

As long as you have your checkbook out, UNI will gladly take your tainted East Coast money!!!!xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx xcoolx :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Mr. C]

Understatement of the year Pop. I think the abundance of choices that are considered "local" teams is actually a detriment to the sports scene here. If you go someplaces in the south, the coverage is all about a couple teams, win or lose. Here they (the media and fans) jump on and off of bandwagons so quickly it will make your head spin.

DC's "local" teams that have had their day in the sun over the last 10-15 years...

Washington Redskins - always #1
Washington Nationals - new kid in town
Washington Wizards - playoff team as of recent
Washington Capitals - out now, but made the Cup finals not that long ago
Baltimore Orioles - were the darlings before the Nats
Baltimore Ravens - when the Skins are bad they pick up a lot of press
Maryland Terrapins - Men's and Women's bball titles, Orange Bowl, lacrosse
Georgetown Hoyas - Final Four fever this year (also their 100th anniversary year)
George Mason Patriots - the FF darlings last year
Virginia Tech Hokies - Beamer ball
Virginia Cavaliers - Made a great run this year in the regular season
Navy Midshipmen - Lacrosse champs, bowl bound the last couple
George Washington Colonials - had a couple good years in mbb

What is sickening to me is that they Washington Post and the whole area will embrace a team doing well and act like they've always loved and promoted them, then as soon as the run is over, back page one paragraph. A good example of this is when UVA beat FSU in football back in mid-90's. I still have the newspaper somewhere... front page, giant headline, color photo... VT was back page news. Fast forward a couple years and they're like UVA who... we're all about the HOKIES and Terps! xnonono2x
Being that you are such a BIG soccer fan, I can't believe you didn't include D.C. United on your list. Didn't they win several MLS titles? And isn't wundekind Freddie Adu one of their players?
:D xlolx xnodx xrotatehx :) xrolleyesx :p xcoolx xeyebrowx xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Being that you are such a BIG soccer fan, I can't believe you didn't include D.C. United on your list. Didn't they win several MLS titles? And isn't wundekind Freddie Adu one of their players?
You are correct, I missed them. I guess it is a little different because they have gotten fairly consistent coverage since they've been in existance. Decent, not great.

Freddy has left United. He's actually a local kid, went to a school a mile from my house and I've actually run into him before.