Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 5

[DFW HOYA]

The Patriot League enters Week 5 with a combined 5-20 record out of conference. Rankings after week 4:

1. Colgate (3-0). They haven't mailed the title to Hamilton yet, but it's probably packed in the box.
2. Lehigh (1-3): Engineers allowing 32 points a game.
3. Holy Cross (1-3): The Yale win may diminish as Ivy contenders emerge.
4. Fordham (0-4): No rushing game in 2018.
5. Bucknell (0-4): 76 yards rushing in last two games.
6. Lafayette (0-4): Six points per game on offense won't cut it, unless Lafayette plays...
7. Georgetown (1-3): Hoyas 1-20 since Sept. 2016 vs. teams not named Marist.

This week's games, with Fordham and Lehigh on bye.

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3)
Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2)
Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4)
Georgetown (1-3) at Brown (0-2)

[World]

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3)
Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2)
Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4)

Georgetown (1-3) atBrown (0-2) TIE GAME

[bonarae]

Holy Cross
Colgate
CCSU
Georgetown

[PAllen]

HC, CCSU, Brown, and I'll go out on a limb and say Colgate picks up one more OOC win for the conference.

[Go Green]

Colgate over W&M. Red Raiders maintain respectability for PL.


CCSU over Lafayette. Pards may not win a game.



Holy Cross over Bucknell. Yesterday's debacle said more about Dartmouth than HC.

Georgetown over Brown. Last Saturday's debacle said more about Dartmouth than Georgetown.

[Go...gate]

William & Mary is going to be ready for us after two tough losses to very strong FBS and FCS teams. I am very concerned.

[TribeNomad1]

William & Mary is going to be ready for us after two tough losses to very strong FBS and FCS teams. I am very concerned.

Watch the film......

[Doc QB]

Instead of creating a separate thread for, “is this the WORST the Patriot League has been since I-AA” akin the Ivy and its thread regarding their solid start, I pose this league-wide question to ponder....

Is our problem really all AI, roster caps, redshirts? NEC passing us by? Ivy aids packages more generous than ever supplanting FBS/CAA full rides? Tougher schedules? Or is it really just more simple than that? We have competed much more successfully in years past without scholarships. We are playing the same teams, minus a FBS game here or there. One man’s educated opinion:

Its coaching. Pure and simple. Excluding HC, Fordham, and even LC, with new regimes (or for LC a sophomore campaign for Garrett) you have guys at Colgate, LU, and Bucknell awhile now. As an admitted homer with almost 40 years of Lehigh experience as son of football alum, player, Football Partnership regular, I think it is I all coaching. Better coaches recruit better talent (scholarship or need based era), develop it, and game plan better. Better coaching is how we did it at LU in parts of the 90’s under essentially two regimes with one commonality...they were just better than what you see now.

Hanks Small (my time in pads) HC/OC in late 80’s early 90’s, only won one PL title, his offenses put up huge numbers. He left to Wake Forest and did the same for them (huge number on O as an OC, but poor Jim Caldwell defenses). He had some guys on his staff who were real quality assistants. Pete Guinta was a position coach who left for long career in NFL. Dave Steckel, who left to be Toledo, then Missouri DC, now runs Missouri State as head man. Kevin Higgins, became LU head man, Detroit Lions assistant, Citadel, now at wake forest. Dave Clawson, left for Villanova as OC, then Fordham as HC, then Richmond as HC, then Tenn OC, then wake forest head man. John Bonamego, was the RB coach for Hank, left and is now HC at Central Michigan.

Higgins becomes HC after Hank, keeps Clawson, adds Andy Coen (who leaves as Oline coach to OC at UPenn, then LU’s head coach), Dave Cecchini (left for Harvard, Citadel, back to LU...but sadly at Valpo now), Pete Lembo (who later followed him as HC, then Elon where he did well, Ball State as head man, then maryland).

Andy gets the HC gig, and when we were solid, had Cecchini as OC, Dave Kotulski as DC (who left from Stanford and then Vandy). This is all from memory in talking with my dad over a bourbon yesterday at my son’s youth football game.

Point is, when LU was solid from 90 thru 98, then again in mid 2000’s, we had guys who could just flat out coach. And the proof is their career trajectories. And further proof is that I just don’t see those same guys on the staff there now. And the results show it. Current OC Brisson has been exposed this season, as not having his two standout WRs, but still left with his all league QB and All American RB cant get the job done.

What says the board about their school and staff? Agree? To me, its all about the coaching.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross had a lot of talent on the field in the 80s but they also had tremendous coaching...many went on to higher college, NFL jobs and some are still there today.

Speculation, but I'm guessing we paid our assistant coaches a lot more then than we do today...respective to other FCS programs anyway.

Chesney is a work in progress obviously but I like what I've seen from him both on and off the field so far. Some of his staff came ovah from Assumption, a couple are Gilmore holdovahs and some came in new this year. We lost our new OC late in preseason this year who took a job with the LA Rams...if there's been grumbling from the HC faithful it has been mostly what we've been doing (or not doing) offensively.

We've been pretty much prohibitive underdogs in our 4 games this year....be interesting to see how we do in the PL games from a coaching standpoint.

[Pard4Life]

Every team except Colgate could end the year with a losing record.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Every team except Colgate could end the year with a losing record.

For the second straight year.....

[kdinva]

Bucknell 17 at Holy Cross 27
Colgate 28 at William & Mary 24
Central Connecticut State 26 at Lafayette 19
Georgetown 14 at Brown 21

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lafayette beating CCSU at home would now be considered an upset. Discuss.

[DFW HOYA]

What says the board about their school and staff? Agree? To me, its all about the coaching.

Georgetown is usually the exception to every PL question and this is no exception. There are some days where you look at the GU box score and think that if Bob Stoops or Les Miles came out of retirement to coach Georgetown, they'd still finish at the bottom of the standings.

While the offensive coaches over the years have been an undistinguished group (excepting Dave Patenaude, now at Temple), Georgetown's defensive coaches have earned a reputation for doing a lot with a little, which goes back to Bob Benson's days as head coach/DC, and from which Rob Sgarlata has followed the same approach. But defense doesn't win games.

On September 24, 2016, Georgetown was 3-0 and defeated Columbia 17-14. Sgarlata's record was 10-15. Since then, Georgetown's record is 2-21 and he is now 12-36, the lowest winning percentage in school history.

[RichH2]

Holy Cross had a lot of talent on the field in the 80s but they also had tremendous coaching...many went on to higher college, NFL jobs and some are still there today.

Speculation, but I'm guessing we paid our assistant coaches a lot more then than we do today...respective to other FCS programs anyway.

Chesney is a work in progress obviously but I like what I've seen from him both on and off the field so far. Some of his staff came ovah from Assumption, a couple are Gilmore holdovahs and some came in new this year. We lost our new OC late in preseason this year who took a job with the LA Rams...if there's been grumbling from the HC faithful it has been mostly what we've been doing (or not doing) offensively.

We've been pretty much prohibitive underdogs in our 4 games this year....be interesting to see how we do in the PL games from a coaching standpoint.

Agree on Scot. He can manage an offense well enough. He lacks the ability to adapt or create from what I've seen this year. Andy to often takes the path of least resistance in hiring assts. His loyalty ,while admirable, is also counterproductive too often.
Coaching,at least at Lehigh, is indeed a factor. That said the other factors also have to be counted. PL by laws are a major restriction on league's ability to compete OOC. Schollies were necessary to expand our pool of players beuond our disappearing niche preschollie.
None of us did it particularly well at the start. We are paying the price now .

[Go Green]

Lafayette beating anyone at home would now be considered an upset. Discuss.

FTFY.

[van]

I think Lehigh D scores a safety and beats bye 2-0, Mish punts 11 times in the game

[RichH2]

I think Lehigh D scores a safety and beats bye 2-0, Mish punts 11 times in the game

Priceless.xlolx

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette beating CCSU at home would now be considered an upset. Discuss.

Go away. You have your own fire to worry about.

[ngineer]

Instead of creating a separate thread for, “is this the WORST the Patriot League has been since I-AA” akin the Ivy and its thread regarding their solid start, I pose this league-wide question to ponder....

Is our problem really all AI, roster caps, redshirts? NEC passing us by? Ivy aids packages more generous than ever supplanting FBS/CAA full rides? Tougher schedules? Or is it really just more simple than that? We have competed much more successfully in years past without scholarships. We are playing the same teams, minus a FBS game here or there. One man’s educated opinion:

Its coaching. Pure and simple. Excluding HC, Fordham, and even LC, with new regimes (or for LC a sophomore campaign for Garrett) you have guys at Colgate, LU, and Bucknell awhile now. As an admitted homer with almost 40 years of Lehigh experience as son of football alum, player, Football Partnership regular, I think it is I all coaching. Better coaches recruit better talent (scholarship or need based era), develop it, and game plan better. Better coaching is how we did it at LU in parts of the 90’s under essentially two regimes with one commonality...they were just better than what you see now.

Hanks Small (my time in pads) HC/OC in late 80’s early 90’s, only won one PL title, his offenses put up huge numbers. He left to Wake Forest and did the same for them (huge number on O as an OC, but poor Jim Caldwell defenses). He had some guys on his staff who were real quality assistants. Pete Guinta was a position coach who left for long career in NFL. Dave Steckel, who left to be Toledo, then Missouri DC, now runs Missouri State as head man. Kevin Higgins, became LU head man, Detroit Lions assistant, Citadel, now at wake forest. Dave Clawson, left for Villanova as OC, then Fordham as HC, then Richmond as HC, then Tenn OC, then wake forest head man. John Bonamego, was the RB coach for Hank, left and is now HC at Central Michigan.

Higgins becomes HC after Hank, keeps Clawson, adds Andy Coen (who leaves as Oline coach to OC at UPenn, then LU’s head coach), Dave Cecchini (left for Harvard, Citadel, back to LU...but sadly at Valpo now), Pete Lembo (who later followed him as HC, then Elon where he did well, Ball State as head man, then maryland).

Andy gets the HC gig, and when we were solid, had Cecchini as OC, Dave Kotulski as DC (who left from Stanford and then Vandy). This is all from memory in talking with my dad over a bourbon yesterday at my son’s youth football game.

Point is, when LU was solid from 90 thru 98, then again in mid 2000’s, we had guys who could just flat out coach. And the proof is their career trajectories. And further proof is that I just don’t see those same guys on the staff there now. And the results show it. Current OC Brisson has been exposed this season, as not having his two standout WRs, but still left with his all league QB and All American RB cant get the job done.

What says the board about their school and staff? Agree? To me, its all about the coaching.

From LU's perspective, I tend to agree. I saw some horrendous tackling yesterday at Franklin Field by the secondary--reaching, grabbing and throwing their bodies at runners without wrapping up. I also agree the OC has become exposed by loss of the two stellar WRs. Not ONE friggin screen pass to Brags when the scene was set up with the big rush they were getting on Mayes. As for Mayes, he doesn't have a QB coach. Body language is bad--gets upset and then presses. Locks on his receiver (though I will acknowledge that he didn't have much time to 'look off' the safeties). I appreciate the frustration he must be feeling, but his head needs to be cleaned out. He has an excellent arm, but being a QB is more than being a thrower. The staff is primarily a bunch of D3 guys who have suddenly been elevated to a platform they are not ready for. Granted, the OL has been severely handicapped by numerous injuries, but we were running effectively against Penn. It was the pass blocking that sucked. Why we didn't run Dom more early in the game, I don't know. Princeton on the horizon almost feels like Navy they way we played Saturday. The League is a dumpster fire....

[Go...gate]

I think Lehigh D scores a safety and beats bye 2-0, Mish punts 11 times in the game

Bye has its usual tough squad.

[ngineer]

I have to take the Crusaders only because they have shown a little more life than the Chips. Holy Cross 27-17.

Colgate at Bill & Mary should be good. While I think the Raiders are fully capable of winning, something in me senses that The Tribe will be extra hungry. I'll go with the "home field 3", William & Mary, 31-28.

Can Laughyette get any kind of running game? CCSU showed more mettle this past week and I can't see them losing. CCSU 38-13.

Will there be more than 100 in the stands? Tape of the Harvard/Brown game last week was downright embarrassing with a virtually empty stadium. Does it count if no one shows up? Bruins, 9-6.

Lehigh and Fordham are off contemplating the lint in their navels. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Go away. You have your own fire to worry about.

Let me rephrase this somewhat: As much as an upset it would be for Lafayette to beat CCSU at home, it would also be considered an upset for Lehigh to beat Princeton on the road in two weeks. As recently as three years ago, Lehigh and Lafayette would have been favored in those games. Discuss.

[PAllen]

Bye has its usual tough squad.

I hear they haven't lost a game in over 100 years.

[van]

From LU's perspective, I tend to agree. I saw some horrendous tackling yesterday at Franklin Field by the secondary--reaching, grabbing and throwing their bodies at runners without wrapping up. I also agree the OC has become exposed by loss of the two stellar WRs. Not ONE friggin screen pass to Brags when the scene was set up with the big rush they were getting on Mayes. As for Mayes, he doesn't have a QB coach. Body language is bad--gets upset and then presses. Locks on his receiver (though I will acknowledge that he didn't have much time to 'look off' the safeties). I appreciate the frustration he must be feeling, but his head needs to be cleaned out. He has an excellent arm, but being a QB is more than being a thrower. The staff is primarily a bunch of D3 guys who have suddenly been elevated to a platform they are not ready for. Granted, the OL has been severely handicapped by numerous injuries, but we were running effectively against Penn. It was the pass blocking that sucked. Why we didn't run Dom more early in the game, I don't know. Princeton on the horizon almost feels like Navy they way we played Saturday. The League is a dumpster fire....

well said Rich

[The Boogie Down]

Lehigh and Fordham are off contemplating the lint in their navels. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Can't speak for Lehigh, and I'm certainly no Fordham homer (since Week 1 I've been saying that this team is seriously lacking in talent), but I'm looking forward to the bye. Not just because we can't lose this week but b/c it gives our new freshman QB (Tim DeMorat) an extra week to prepare for the second half of the year. Despite the loss to CCSU this DeMorat looks like the real deal. Strong arm, quick release, ability to scramble and, for a freshman at least, decent enough decision making. By NOOO-OOOO means am I comparing him to Mike Nebrich or Kevin Anderson but, for the first time this year, I'm optimistically looking forward to Ram games.

[Lehigh'98]

A lot of talk about the league being terrible. It is, no doubt, terrible. We have never been a powerhouse league though. At our absolute best, the top 2-3 teams could compete on a national level and give anyone in FCS a good game, maybe win. The bottom of the league has always been and still is atrocious. If Lehigh were still good, it would still be same ole Patriot League for the most part (yes the bottom is worse than normal lately). We have steadily declined the past 5 years and right now, there is no end in sight. Coen is low energy and the team/staff reflects that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A lot of talk about the league being terrible. It is, no doubt, terrible. We have never been a powerhouse league though. At our absolute best, the top 2-3 teams could compete on a national level and give anyone in FCS a good game, maybe win. The bottom of the league has always been and still is atrocious. If Lehigh were still good, it would still be same ole Patriot League for the most part (yes the bottom is worse than normal lately). We have steadily declined the past 5 years and right now, there is no end in sight. Coen is low energy and the team/staff reflects that.

I'm not so sure about that. If Fordham had been in a barn-burner with UNC-Charlotte and Holy Cross were somewhat competitive with BC for a quarter (or even Dartmouth), the overall health of the PL I think wouldn't be questioned. Although I do agree that, if Lehigh beat Penn, or Holy Cross made it a game with Dartmouth, or Fordham would have dispatched CCSU, we'd more be talking about "same ol' PL".

[Go Green]

Tom Gilmore was promoted to outside linebackers coach at Wake Forest yesterday.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Tom Gilmore was promoted to outside linebackers coach at Wake Forest yesterday.

Wake Forest has 4 former head football coaches with Patriot League ties on its staff. Head coach Dave Clawson (Fordham), Kevin Higgins (Lehigh), Tom Gilmore (Holy Cross), and Dave Cohen (Hofstra's former head coach, ties to Lafayette and Fordham).

Additionally Higgins (HC), Clawson, and Gilmore all spent time on Lehigh's staff at one point (as Doc QB pointed out).

[Pards Rule]

Lafayette beating CCSU at home would now be considered an upset. Discuss.

Sad but true. Last time CCSU was in Easton, PA was Sept 12, 1981, Bill Russo's first game in charge of Leopards, a 51-0 funtime, and first start for Frank Novak. I enjoyed it immensely! BTW a backup QB threw a TD with 9 seconds left for the Leopards...who was it?

[Southsider]

Sad but true. Last time CCSU was in Easton, PA was Sept 12, 1981, Bill Russo's first game in charge of Leopards, a 51-0 funtime, and first start for Frank Novak. I enjoyed it immensely! BTW a backup QB threw a TD with 9 seconds left for the Leopards...who was it?

Kirchoff? Up big with 9 secondsleft? Who would let the kid throw��

[CHIP72]

I think Lehigh D scores a safety and beats bye 2-0, Mish punts 11 times in the game

Good thing that game wasn't in 2017 considering Lehigh's defense last year!

[CHIP72]

Kirchoff? Up big with 9 secondsleft? Who would let the kid throw��

It definitely wasn't Tom Kirchhoff because he was close to me in age (I remember hearing/reading about him when I was home for college visits), and I was in elementary school in 1981.

[ngineer]

Wake Forest has 4 former head football coaches with Patriot League ties on its staff. Head coach Dave Clawson (Fordham), Kevin Higgins (Lehigh), Tom Gilmore (Holy Cross), and Dave Cohen (Hofstra's former head coach, ties to Lafayette and Fordham).

Additionally Higgins (HC), Clawson, and Gilmore all spent time on Lehigh's staff at one point (as Doc QB pointed out).

And what does one devine from this?????

[DFW HOYA]

And what does one devine from this?????

Unless you're Dick Biddle or Frank Tavani, the PL is a stop, not a destination.

[PAllen]

And what does one devine from this?????

We used to have good coaches.

[LehighU11]

And what does one devine from this?????
That coaches across the Patriot League have become complacent in recent years and are content with a "tenured" coaching position?

Coen (Lehigh, 13 years), Tavani (Lafayette, 17 years), Gilmore (HC, 14 years), and arguably Susan (Bucknell, 9 years) have stuck around longer than their predecessors (except for Tavani). Each has seen their later years become increasingly unsuccessful.

[TheValleyRaider]

The horror, the horror. Another rough week for the League, though I managed to pull out a 4-2 mark. 19-5 for the season to date.

Bucknell at Holy Cross Holy Cross Look, a League game not involving Colgate. Holy Cross couldn't follow up their first big win with another Ivy victim, and Dartmouth won pretty definitively. Speaking of definitive, the Bison loss to Villanova certainly qualifies, especially in terms of confirming what we usually know about Bucknell. Beating the Big Green may be a step too far, but I think the Crusaders get on the board in the League by outscoring the Bison at home.

Colgate at William & Mary Colgate Smooth sailing on Homecoming sees the Raiders go 2-0 in the League, and one again try to head south. No hurricanes coming this time, just a meeting with a tough, if reeling, Tribe team. The Raiders' schedule has not looked too daunting record-wise to this point. W&M was always likely to be the 2nd best CAA team Colgate faced, but with the Raiders lingering around the edges of the polls, this is their last real chance for a notable nationwide win.

Central Connecticut State at Lafayette Central Connecticut State CCSU made a statement against the Rams in the Bronx. Lafayette also made a statement on the road last week, but of a very different type. Their effort against Monmouth does lead me to believe potential surprises lurk below the surface with this team, but I'm not fool enough to pick them here.

Georgetown at Brown Brown Didn't see any of it, but from some commentary it sounds like Brown hung tough against Harvard last Friday. Brown is nowhere near the top of the Ivy League, but that's 3 matchups this year for the Hoyas. Don't see how this one will be much different from the last two.

[RichH2]

Unless you're Dick Biddle or Frank Tavani, the PL is a stop, not a destination.

That has been the standard for a long time. At least since to early 60s. We will always be a stop for most able coaches. Some will find a home here with various shelf lives. It is the nature of our league. One we have to live with and constantly adapt to. I would rather have an excellent coach for 4 or 5 years than a dud for an eternity.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Unless you're Dick Biddle or Frank Tavani, the PL is a stop, not a destination.

Coen at this point would fall into that category. He was, according to Richmond folks, a hot name for their job in 2011. In hindsight where would Lehigh be if he left and Cecchini was promoted to the head gig? I think Coen would have made a really good OL coach at a P5 program. Beyond that, better have money to pay for topshelf assistants if he's going to be your head guy.

[DFW HOYA]

That has been the standard for a long time. At least since to early 60s. We will always be a stop for most able coaches. Some will find a home here with various shelf lives. It is the nature of our league. One we have to live with and constantly adapt to. I would rather have an excellent coach for 4 or 5 years than a dud for an eternity.

I think there is something to be said for constancy to purpose, as I'm an alumnus of a school with just four university presidents since 1969, four head football coaches since 1970, and four head basketball coaches since 1972.

Coaches do come and go but it's the institution that drives program success. It's why Lehigh and Colgate have higher aspirations, and why Fordham has the money but not always the will to be a football school.

Conversely, it's why Lafayette is where it is, why Holy Cross continues to look in the rear view mirror a little more than they should, why Bucknell struggles in anonymity and why Georgetown politely ignores the fact that everyone left the non-scholarship room and they didn't.

[CHIP72]

That has been the standard for a long time. At least since to early 60s. We will always be a stop for most able coaches. Some will find a home here with various shelf lives. It is the nature of our league. One we have to live with and constantly adapt to. I would rather have an excellent coach for 4 or 5 years than a dud for an eternity.

In some cases a school can have both. Look at Lafayette, not only with football but also men's basketball. Frank Tavani did an excellent job at Lafayette for most of his first 10 years as the football coach, and then hung on for another 7 seasons. Fran O'Hanlon was really good the first 5 years he was at Lafayette, but the Leopards' basketball program has been mediocre for most of the last 18 years, almost never overachieving and often underachieving. The same may be true at Lehigh with both Andy Coen (football) and Brett Reed (basketball), though the multi-season drop off with both teams isn't as obvious as it is at Lafayette.

[RichH2]

I think there is something to be said for constancy to purpose, as I'm an alumnus of a school with just four university presidents since 1969, four head football coaches since 1970, and four head basketball coaches since 1972.

Coaches do come and go but it's the institution that drives program success. It's why Lehigh and Colgate have higher aspirations, and why Fordham has the money but not always the will to be a football school.

Conversely, it's why Lafayette is where it is, why Holy Cross continues to look in the rear view mirror a little more than they should, why Bucknell struggles in anonymity and why Georgetown politely ignores the fact that everyone left the non-scholarship room and they didn't.

Certainly true. One constant Lehigh has had is a supportive administration. We had our experiment with deemphasis after Leckonby. It didn't work well. Dean Sterrett has done a remarkable job as AD. He is a patient administrator but Andy may be pushing that envelope this year with another losing season. Altho that has been his history at Lehigh. Alternating cycles of winning and losing seasons.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

In some cases a school can have both. Look at Lafayette, not only with football but also men's basketball. Frank Tavani did an excellent job at Lafayette for most of his first 10 years as the football coach, and then hung on for another 7 seasons. Fran O'Hanlon was really good the first 5 years he was at Lafayette, but the Leopards' basketball program has been mediocre for most of the last 18 years, almost never overachieving and often underachieving. The same may be true at Lehigh with both Andy Coen (football) and Brett Reed (basketball), though the multi-season drop off with both teams isn't as obvious as it is at Lafayette.

Do you see similar traits in Coen and Dunphy at this point? Both have had great moments but as time went on the two seem to lack the mojo needed get their program over the hump? Dunphy's downfall started with the 20 loss season in '13-'14. He was never able to build the program to a consistent level within the AAC after that, let alone a consistent Top 25 force. His disdain for AAU/"handler type recruiting and too much loyalty to average assistants hurt him in the long run. The last two seasons Dunphy seemed "distant" at times like Coen? Sometimes I forget Coen is only 54. Pete Carroll will have more energy at 75 than Coen will at 55.

Who knows where Temple hoops will be under McKie but the time had come for a change. Coen, like Dunphy is great a guy with a history of success but at some point the program loses its energy and an overhaul is needed. Hopefully Coen and his staff can right the ship and grind out a winning season. If Lehigh finishes under .500 this year Coen will have 7 winning seasons and 6 losing seasons in 13 years as head coach. Biddle had 3 losing seasons at Colgate in 18 years as head coach. 2 of which came in his last 3 years

[Pards Rule]

Kirchoff? Up big with 9 secondsleft? Who would let the kid throw

No frosh quarterback Scott Bailey. Not sure if he had any other in game action and I think he left the team, replaced by Dean Rivera the next year as Novak backup. It was reported in the Easton Express (now Express-Times) the day after that a CCSU player yelled after the game "Hey Russo, do you want us to hang around for more practice?!". In the postgame interview, Russo defended Bailey saying he did what he was taught on a CB blitz, throw the ball to the receiver on that side. Not sure why a pass play was called in the circumstance. Maybe supposed to be a quick out and give Bailey some throws? Kirchoff (RIP from ALS) was early 90s QB, getting game MVP for the 1992 win over Lehigh.

[carney2]

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3) - Not sure that I like either of these teams, but one of them has to win.

Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2) - It's all Mary this year down in Virginia.

Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4)- Only the Hoyas stand between the Pards and a "perfect" season. Rumors are circulating that Garrett has lost the staff, and is on the verge of losing the team.

Georgetown (1-3) at Brown (0-2) - Don't know how bad the Brownies are, but I doubt if they're this bad.

[van]

21-4 for the year

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3); home field advantage for Crossers

Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2); Gaters are building momentum

Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4); CCSU is pretty solid, Pards are not

Georgetown (1-3) at Brown (0-2); Hoyas are better Bears, but not by much

[Sader87]

A big game (as "big" as it could I suppose) for HC and Chesney. First game they are favored all year and Homecoming...a poor showing by the Saders may stall the momentum Chesney is trying to establish for the program.

[Gangtackle11]

Bucknell @ Holy Cross - I’ve seen enough of Bucknell.

Colgate @ W&M - Haven’t seen W&M yet, but they barely beat Bucknell. Good enough for me.

CCSU @ Lafayette- I have a sneaking suspicion that Bucknell is better than the Leopards. I’ll go with the Blue Devils.

Georgetown @ Brown - who cares. I have no idea. Bucknell starts with a B. So does Brown. Give me the Hoyas then.

[Go...gate]

Certainly true. One constant Lehigh has had is a supportive administration. We had our experiment with deemphasis after Leckonby. It didn't work well. Dean Sterrett has done a remarkable job as AD. He is a patient administrator but Andy may be pushing that envelope this year with another losing season. Altho that has been his history at Lehigh. Alternating cycles of winning and losing seasons.

In the case of Lehigh and Colgate, thank God for Fred Dunlap!

[RichH2]

In the case of Lehigh and Colgate, thank God for Fred Dunlap!

Yup.

[Sader87]

Where have you gone Eddie Anderson? Sader Nation turns its lonely eye towards you...woo, woo, woo...xdrunkyx

[Leopard Loyalist]

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3)
Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2)
Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4)
Georgetown (1-3) at Brown (0-2)

[Bluefish845]

Holy Cross
Colgate
Central Ct
Brown

[ngineer]

Unless you're Dick Biddle or Frank Tavani, the PL is a stop, not a destination.

Coen may start to be considered in this genre. Indeed if the season goes on like it is, and we end up sub .500, and he's not let go, then he will seem to be set for life. The alumni following is rumbling and grumbling, but I am not sensing the 'fire' attitude that existed back in 2009 that resulted in the termination of Trey Brown as OC and they brought in Cecchini. Princeton may be a blood bath if the team does not get its collective heads turned around. If it is, the only thing that should save Coen would be winning the PL, and at present, I don't see that occuring with Colgate appearing a good head above the crowd.

[ngineer]

That has been the standard for a long time. At least since to early 60s. We will always be a stop for most able coaches. Some will find a home here with various shelf lives. It is the nature of our league. One we have to live with and constantly adapt to. I would rather have an excellent coach for 4 or 5 years than a dud for an eternity.xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

Coen may start to be considered in this genre. Indeed if the season goes on like it is, and we end up sub .500, and he's not let go, then he will seem to be set for life. The alumni following is rumbling and grumbling, but I am not sensing the 'fire' attitude that existed back in 2009 that resulted in the termination of Trey Brown as OC and they brought in Cecchini. Princeton may be a blood bath if the team does not get its collective heads turned around. If it is, the only thing that should save Coen would be winning the PL, and at present, I don't see that occuring with Colgate appearing a good head above the crowd.

Are we being serious?

The only thing that should save Coen is a PL championship? He has won two championships in a row. He is no way getting fired this year or next unless he comitts a crime.

[Bill]

It's hard to believe, but I'm 22-3 on the year so far. Draft Kings is threatening to not allow me to bet anymore in NJ.

Bucknell at Holy Cross
Colgate at William & Mary
Central Connecticut State at Lafayette
Georgetown at Brown

[DFW HOYA]

Are we being serious?
He is no way getting fired this year or next unless he comitts a crime.

Losing to Georgetown would certainly stir up heat.

[Go Green]

Losing to Georgetown would certainly stir up heat.

If Georgetown beats Brown, I do not expect Phil Estes to be retained.

[Doc QB]

And if Coen were to be let go, who do you get? If as above, Brown loses to the Hoyas, and Estes is let go, who ya gonna get? I wonder aloud to those who follow this board and PL/Ivy threads, who gets a head coaching shot? Who are the candidates, the Chesney types, the position guys at FBS programs, CAA coordinators that we take a shot at? I for one, if Coen were to be let go, do not want to go the Fordham route and get an Ivy guy. That is not a slight on the Ivy league, who is collectively kicking our tails this season, but I would want a CAA guy, coordinator type, or lower level FBS guy to get his first gig.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

And if Coen were to be let go, who do you get? If as above, Brown loses to the Hoyas, and Estes is let go, who ya gonna get? I wonder aloud to those who follow this board and PL/Ivy threads, who gets a head coaching shot? Who are the candidates, the Chesney types, the position guys at FBS programs, CAA coordinators that we take a shot at? I for one, if Coen were to be let go, do not want to go the Fordham route and get an Ivy guy. That is not a slight on the Ivy league, who is collectively kicking our tails this season, but I would want a CAA guy, coordinator type, or lower level FBS guy to get his first gig.

When Princeton canned Roger Hughes, they went an unconventional route and found Bob Surace, a former Princeton football alum who was at the time working in the NFL (I think with the Bengals). Hard to argue with Surace's success at Princeton overall (bringing a sub-par program to a consistnt Ivy League title contender with two co-IL championships), and he surrounded himself with some excellent go-getter assistants. His former OC, James Perry, is now head coach at Bryant.

Of course, Princeton also opened up their pocketbooks in the financial aid arena overall (for all students) and don't saddle themselves with silly roster restrictions for home games. What this means is that next Saturday against Lehigh, Princeton will most likely suit up over 100 athletes on their sideline that are getting some sort of financial aid to go to Princeton (though not everyone will be playable). Lehigh will travel 60 players.

[LUHawker]

Are we being serious?

The only thing that should save Coen is a PL championship? He has won two championships in a row.

Sorry, but that is a "tallest midget" argument.

[Go Green]

His former OC, James Perry, is now head coach at Bryant.



Perry is to Brown what Buddy Teevens is to Dartmouth. I'm sure if Brown does make a change, Perry is at the top of their wish list.

But if Estes starts winning again, all power to him.

[RichH2]

[QUOTE=Doc QB;2681168]And if Coen were to be let go, who do you get? If as above, Brown loses to the Hoyas, and Estes is let go, who ya gonna get? I wonder aloud to those who follow this board and PL/Ivy threads, who gets a head coaching shot? Who are the candidates, the Chesney types, the position guys at FBS programs, CAA coordinators that we take a shot at? I for one, if Coen were to be let go, do not want to go the Fordham route and get an Ivy guy. That is not a slight on the Ivy league, who is collectively kicking our tails this season, but I would want a CAA guy, coordinator type, or lower level FBS guy to get his first gig.[/QU

You may be right Doc given the current landscape of college football.Likely it would be preferable to get a HC familiar with recruiting at the level Lehigh needs. That said our history has been most successful with HCs all from lower levels of football. Leckonby, Dunlap,Higgins Lembo and Coen. How woould the men before Coen have done under the same circumstances? An interesting question. Dont know the answer. The abilities to teach players and manage the program are paramount. Recruiting well has become at least as important. Given PL restrictions there is no leeway for mistakes in recruit evaluation. None. Look at Lehigh this year. OL lost Hawkinson and Schulz to retirement due to injury. Then we lost the starting Ts Curlin and Motley to injury. D is relatively healthy compared to last year's raft of injuries. A perfect storm, no doubt, but it highlights the issue for Lehigh and the PL. There is no leeway. Aside from Andy's apparent lack of involvement ( if actual), the delay in acclimating to schollie recruiting is our major issue right now. Nick's clas and the current seniors have some top talent just not enough.
Recruiting has improved. Has the coaching? I am undecided but I think not.

[Franks Tanks]

Sorry, but that is a "tallest midget" argument.

Agree, but still nuts to think a coach coming off two consecutive league championships and playoff berths will be fired at Lehigh. Coen has two to three poor years in him before he gets the boot. This is the Patriot League not the SEC!

By the way I agree with you guys about Coen. He is low energy, seems to be rather hands off schematically and doesn’t seem to do anything extremely well. He still wins enough that he isn’t going anywhere in the near future.

[maninthehighcastle]

Bucknell (0-4) at Holy Cross (1-3)
Colgate (3-0) at William & Mary (1-2)
Central Connecticut State (2-2) at Lafayette (0-4)
Georgetown (1-3) at Brown (0-2)

[Franks Tanks]

Agree Estes appears to be on thin ice. Brown is a difficult job, he has been there forever, and has had some great years. Does seem like it’s time for a change in Providence however.

Billy O’Brien will most likely be looking for a new job soon ... ha.

[Go Green]

Agree Estes appears to be on thin ice. Brown is a difficult job, he has been there forever, and has had some great years. Does seem like it’s time for a change in Providence however.
.

Estes' career has been pretty similar to John Anderson's.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/11/18/sports/scouting-052868.html

[Go...gate]

Coen may start to be considered in this genre. Indeed if the season goes on like it is, and we end up sub .500, and he's not let go, then he will seem to be set for life. The alumni following is rumbling and grumbling, but I am not sensing the 'fire' attitude that existed back in 2009 that resulted in the termination of Trey Brown as OC and they brought in Cecchini. Princeton may be a blood bath if the team does not get its collective heads turned around. If it is, the only thing that should save Coen would be winning the PL, and at present, I don't see that occuring with Colgate appearing a good head above the crowd.

That would be a shame. Lehigh is one of the PL's flagship schools and should have as good a coach and program as they possibly can. Why isn't Sterrett more aggressive on this?

[RichH2]

That would be a shame. Lehigh is one of the PL's flagship schools and should have as good a coach and program as they possibly can. Why isn't Sterrett more aggressive on this?

I call it the Lembo Syndrome. Alumni disappointed expectations.
Coen is 83-59 with 5 PL titles and 7 winning seasons in 12 years. His record tho has been somewhat cyclical. By year
1. W
2. L
3. L
4. L
5. W
6. W
7. W
8. W
9. L
10. W
11. W
12. L
Certainly his record is good. Ah but blown out in the playoffs 2 years in a row. Bad defense for 4 years. Enough for many to call for his head. I do wonder whether it is a Coen problem or more a PL problem. Either way it is an issue that has to be faced and dealt with now before it becomes a habit that we cant get out of. I went thru those recoveries too many times over the years. Lets not repeat it.

[Gate83]

I call it the Lembo Syndrome. Alumni disappointed expectations.
Coen is 83-59 with 5 PL titles and 7 winning seasons in 12 years. His record tho has been somewhat cyclical. By year
1. W
2. L
3. L
4. L
5. W
6. W
7. W
8. W
9. L
10. W
11. W
12. L
Certainly his record is good. Ah but blown out in the playoffs 2 years in a row. Bad defense for 4 years. Enough for many to call for his head. I do wonder whether it is a Coen problem or more a PL problem. Either way it is an issue that has to be faced and dealt with now before it becomes a habit that we cant get out of. I went thru those recoveries too many times over the years. Lets not repeat it.

You guys should appreciate what you have. If you're winning the league regularly playoff performance is a cherry on top, not the metric.

[RichH2]

You guys should appreciate what you have. If you're winning the league regularly playoff performance is a cherry on top, not the metric.

Not anymore at least for us. Last year's title tells more about the level of play in the PL now than it merits a sense of accomplishment. An 0-5 OOC with blowout losses and the worst D in the FCS and then an embarrassment in the playoffs carries much more weight for us right now. As much as D has improved this year, the O is a mess. So fans are upset.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not anymore at least for us. Last year's title tells more about the level of play in the PL now than it merits a sense of accomplishment. An 0-5 OOC with blowout losses and the worst D in the FCS and then an embarrassment in the playoffs carries much more weight for us right now. As much as D has improved this year, the O is a mess. So fans are upset.

There is this sort of fine line between playing a tough team well in a loss and the types of losses we had last season. There was zero bad faith in losing 24-0 in the Fargodome to a national-championship Bison team with your best receiver sitting at home in 2011. But giving up 50+ points to both UNH and Stony Brook in consecutive years was pretty tough sledding for Lehigh fans, especially when the offense was putting up a fair number of points.

[LUHawker]

I call it the Lembo Syndrome. Alumni disappointed expectations.
Coen is 83-59 with 5 PL titles and 7 winning seasons in 12 years. His record tho has been somewhat cyclical. By year
1. W
2. L
3. L
4. L
5. W
6. W
7. W
8. W
9. L
10. W
11. W
12. L
Certainly his record is good. Ah but blown out in the playoffs 2 years in a row. Bad defense for 4 years. Enough for many to call for his head. I do wonder whether it is a Coen problem or more a PL problem. Either way it is an issue that has to be faced and dealt with now before it becomes a habit that we cant get out of. I went thru those recoveries too many times over the years. Lets not repeat it.

Technically, Coen has had 5 PL titles, but the co-title in his first year ended with a thumping by Lafayette and therefore no playoffs. It took until 2010 before things improved. 2010-11 were very good including playoff wins and exciting, competitive football - even in the losses. After that was the slide into defensive ineptitude for 5 years. Let's also not forget the Yankee Stadium debacle. Overall, Coen's teams have been adequate. I'd say he's had 4 good years in his 12: 2010, 1011, 1012 and 2016. Last year's PL title was mostly because the league as a whole was so bad. The year before, Lehigh was dominant in the league, but as the playoffs proved, Lehigh (and the PL) was and is not ready to be in the national conversation.

I don't think that PL coaches as a whole have truly adapted to the scholarship recruiting era and recruiting and coaching matters even more at the PL level - look at Joe Morehead for proof. I hope Lehigh turns it around this year and Andy decides he needs a change of scenery. God knows the fans do!

[ColgateTD]

Holy Cross
CCS
Brown
Colgate

[van]

I call it the Lembo Syndrome. Alumni disappointed expectations.
Coen is 83-59 with 5 PL titles and 7 winning seasons in 12 years. His record tho has been somewhat cyclical. By year
1. W
2. L
3. L
4. L
5. W
6. W
7. W
8. W
9. L
10. W
11. W
12. L
Certainly his record is good. Ah but blown out in the playoffs 2 years in a row. Bad defense for 4 years. Enough for many to call for his head. I do wonder whether it is a Coen problem or more a PL problem. Either way it is an issue that has to be faced and dealt with now before it becomes a habit that we cant get out of. I went thru those recoveries too many times over the years. Lets not repeat it.

no question it is a good PL record over this time period, essentially the same winning % as Gate and Fordham (significantly bolstered by Moorhead & scholarship years) while the rest of the league had losing records over that time period so compared to peers it is quite good, however the last 4 years have seen a regressive trend for both Lehigh and arguably the entire league, in my opinion there are many complex reasons for this, none of which are likely to be addressed any time soon and addressing them one at a time will take quite a while

[RichH2]

no question it is a good PL record over this time period, essentially the same winning % as Gate and Fordham (significantly bolstered by Moorhead & scholarship years) while the rest of the league had losing records over that time period so compared to peers it is quite good, however the last 4 years have seen a regressive trend for both Lehigh and arguably the entire league, in my opinion there are many complex reasons for this, none of which are likely to be addressed any time soon and addressing them one at a time will take quite a while
Probably true van but IMO most of the reasons are interrelated. Basically, it all boils down to coaching ability and the regressive PL rules.For Lehigh, its our D. The base issue was a series of poor DCs together with horrendous recruiting particularly for the DL.It is only this year and to a lesser extent last year that we have improved the talent level on D appreciably. The new DC,while inexperienced, is a great recruiter and has built a good staff. The addition of the ex DC at Holy Cross has been a major benefit. He has improved the D schemes and play substantially.
Our OC while also an excellent recruiter has fallen short this year. His inexperience has been highlighted by the inablility of the offense to score. The raft of injuries to the OL has no doubt hampered the offense but that alone does not account foe the anemic playcalling so far this year.
PL rules are a major factor for the league and particularly for us this year. We have for a number of reasons a roster of 78. Our present caps on rosters and schollies give PL coaches absolutely no leeway for error in recruiting or for injuries. Add in the facts of no redshirting and that we award 4 year scholarships and you have a recurring problem that cannot be accounted for by coaches. To build a full roster a coach would have to award 35 to 40 partials and hope that some develop into contributors over time. He has to rely on 20 to 25 full rides and hope that not to many get injured. We see how that policy has worked. PL and Lehigh are totally noncompetitive in OOC schedules.
The time is now for both PL and Lehigh to act.

[van]

we all would like action but the hurdles are pretty steep;

60 vs 63, this is the item with the most bang for the buck in my opinion, means 3 more ladies schollies too, probably half the league feels they can't afford it

roster limits, how many walk ons are going to ride the pine at $60K per year? just don't see it being much help

AI, likely to be dropped when hell freezes over, doubt that even aggravated alums want to see this watered down

red shirts, many hurdles here, how many frosh can you bank with rosters in the 80's? lack of 5 year programs at several schools, spreads schollies over 5 years instead of 4, would give coaches additional flexibility but by no means a panacea

competition for scholar athletes; Ivies have thrown down the gauntlet and have the will power and finances to skim the cream of the crop and maintain large rosters

competition for non-scholar athletes; NEC raising the bar, CAA raising the bar

tuition cost; if we are selling soap for $65K a bar and CCSU has a somewhat different brand of soap for say $30K or U Albany or Stony Brook has a somewhat different brand for say $20K or UNH etc etc etc how much soap do we expect to sell?

administration support for athletics; big divergence throughout the league

[PAllen]

Probably true van but IMO most of the reasons are interrelated. Basically, it all boils down to coaching ability and the regressive PL rules.For Lehigh, its our D. The base issue was a series of poor DCs together with horrendous recruiting particularly for the DL.It is only this year and to a lesser extent last year that we have improved the talent level on D appreciably. The new DC,while inexperienced, is a great recruiter and has built a good staff. The addition of the ex DC at Holy Cross has been a major benefit. He has improved the D schemes and play substantially.
Our OC while also an excellent recruiter has fallen short this year. His inexperience has been highlighted by the inablility of the offense to score. The raft of injuries to the OL has no doubt hampered the offense but that alone does not account foe the anemic playcalling so far this year.
PL rules are a major factor for the league and particularly for us this year. We have for a number of reasons a roster of 78. Our present caps on rosters and schollies give PL coaches absolutely no leeway for error in recruiting or for injuries. Add in the facts of no redshirting and that we award 4 year scholarships and you have a recurring problem that cannot be accounted for by coaches. To build a full roster a coach would have to award 35 to 40 partials and hope that some develop into contributors over time. He has to rely on 20 to 25 full rides and hope that not to many get injured. We see how that policy has worked. PL and Lehigh are totally noncompetitive in OOC schedules.
The time is now for both PL and Lehigh to act.

Our OC can't even get the play call in time. OCs need to be 1-3 plays ahead, not 1 play behind. I agree that PL rules aren't helping, but this coaching staff is atrocious and headed in the wrong direction.

[CHIP72]

Do you see similar traits in Coen and Dunphy at this point? Both have had great moments but as time went on the two seem to lack the mojo needed get their program over the hump? Dunphy's downfall started with the 20 loss season in '13-'14. He was never able to build the program to a consistent level within the AAC after that, let alone a consistent Top 25 force. His disdain for AAU/"handler type recruiting and too much loyalty to average assistants hurt him in the long run. The last two seasons Dunphy seemed "distant" at times like Coen? Sometimes I forget Coen is only 54. Pete Carroll will have more energy at 75 than Coen will at 55.

With regard to Fran Dunphy, IMO the issue is his age, not his lack of ability to put a team over the top. Dunphy had a great run at Penn, and his teams were still at or near the very top of the Ivy League when he took the Market-Frankford Line and Broad Street Line to move from Penn to Temple in mid-2006. But Dunphy is getting up in years, and in my observation many coaches start falling off quality-wise when they reach about age 70 (or in Dunphy's case, a little before that). Look at Dunphy's predecessor with the Owls, John Chaney; from the time he came to Temple in fall 1982 until spring 2001, Chaney's Temple teams made the NCAA Tournament 17 times in 19 seasons (with one of the misses occurring in Chaney's very first season). However, during the last five seasons of Chaney's tenure, the Owls failed to make the NCAA Tournament every year. Chaney, who was born in January 1932, turned 70 years old in the first of those five consecutive no-NCAA Tournament seasons.

In football, Joe Paterno is an obvious example; Penn State was very strong most years between the 1968 and the mid-1990s during Paterno's tenure; Paterno (born in December 1926) was in his late 60s in the mid-1990s. However, starting in the late 1990s Penn State pretty much never was able to win big games, and then in the 2000-2004 period the Nittany Lions suffered 4 losing records in 5 seasons, something that happened only once in Paterno's first 34 seasons (1966 to 1999) as Penn State's head coach. It wasn't until he became a figurehead and allowed (or was forced to have) his assistant coaches do most of the heavy lifting that Penn State became good again, and even then they rarely won big games.

You can even turn to baseball and look at legendary manager Connie Mack, who had managed the Philadelphia A's through a couple of dynastic periods (1910-1914, when they won 4 AL pennants and 3 World Series in 5 years, and 1929-1931, when they won 3 AL pennants and 2 World Series in 3 years at a time the Yankees had both Ruth and Gehrig playing/still playing at near their prime levels). (The A's also had many bad seasons between the two dynasty periods, mainly due to Connie Mack not having outside income besides owning and managing the A's and him valuing his owner hat more than his manager hat.) The A's remained a top team in their second run until 1932 (won over 60% of their games and finished second to the Yankees that year), but then through a combination of Mack selling his players off due to the Depression and his advancing age (he was born in December 1862 and turned 70 years old prior to the 1933 season) that the A's started becoming a down and out team again. Mack officially managed the A's through 1950 (when he was 87 years old!), but after 1933 only had three winning seasons (1947 to 1949) the remainder of his career, and often had teams well below .500. (The A's inability to develop a farm system, due in large part because of Mack's coming of age at a different time in baseball history, his innate conservatism, and his lack of non-baseball income, was also a big factor in the A's lack of success during the last 1 1/2+ decades of Mack's managerial tenure.)

Dunphy is a little younger than the three men mentioned above in terms of experiencing his career downturn; he actually turns 70 years old next week (DOB: 10/5/1948). However, his career success pattern isn't unlike the aforementioned coaches, particularly Chaney and Paterno. To me Dunphy has been a really good coach in his career, but IMO he's passed his prime and has reached the end of his time as a good coach.

RE: Andy Coen - I think the issues with him are a little different. IMO he's been a good coach but never a really good coach, and he's either hit a rough patch or has worn out his time at Lehigh. I'm unsure which of those two scenarios is actually occurring with Coen.

Just my 2 (or 20) cents.

[RichH2]

A temporary detour back to the actual thread topic. Go figure.

Holy Cross. Buckies will put up a tussle but they cant score.
Pards over. CCSU. Kinda a hopeful pick. Blue Devils arent very good. May be Pards only shot at an OOC W.
Brown. Brown is a bit of a mess. Hoyas arent but they arent very deep or talented either.
Colgate over Mary. Bill not around yet this year. Gate has an excellent shot at a W.

[Go...gate]

William & Mary 28, Colgate 24

Central Connecticut 26, Lafayette 10

Holy Cross 30, Bucknell 14

Georgetown 16, Brown 13

Bonus Pick: Hun School 22, Haverford School 16

Nice win by Princeton over Columbia!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Georgetown - coin-flip
CCSU - The Blue Devils good enough to beat up on winless PL teams
Holy Cross - Bucknell is terrible
Colgate - Colgate and the PL needs this one. The Tribe are not good.

[ngineer]

Maybe there should be a Patriot League Symposium and have everyone (all Presidents, AD's and staff, coaches and interested alumni) gather for a full day soul searching and trying to figure out "What the F*** are we Doing and Where the F*** are we Going". We could have "T-Sessions", burn incense, and hum to the sitar....and smokes if you got 'em.xblahxxbangxxbangxxchinscratchxxchinscratchxxh ugxxprayxxviolinxxbeerchugxxslapfightxxarguexxpopc ornxxbabycryxxshakingmadxxdizzyxxdeadhorsexxhomerx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Crossers
CCSUers
Hoyas
and The Pantsless Griffins

[Go...gate]

Georgetown - coin-flip
CCSU - The Blue Devils good enough to beat up on winless PL teams
Holy Cross - Bucknell is terrible
Colgate - Colgate and the PL needs this one. The Tribe are not good.

From your lips to God's ears.

[PAllen]

Maybe there should be a Patriot League Symposium and have everyone (all Presidents, AD's and staff, coaches and interested alumni) gather for a full day soul searching and trying to figure out "What the F*** are we Doing and Where the F*** are we Going". We could have "T-Sessions", burn incense, and hum to the sitar....and smokes if you got 'em.xblahxxbangxxbangxxchinscratchxxchinscratchxxh ugxxprayxxviolinxxbeerchugxxslapfightxxarguexxpopc ornxxbabycryxxshakingmadxxdizzyxxdeadhorsexxhomerx

Or we could just hire good coaches.

[RichH2]

Maybe there should be a Patriot League Symposium and have everyone (all Presidents, AD's and staff, coaches and interested alumni) gather for a full day soul searching and trying to figure out "What the F*** are we Doing and Where the F*** are we Going". We could have "T-Sessions", burn incense, and hum to the sitar....and smokes if you got 'em.xblahxxbangxxbangxxchinscratchxxchinscratchxxh ugxxprayxxviolinxxbeerchugxxslapfightxxarguexxpopc ornxxbabycryxxshakingmadxxdizzyxxdeadhorsexxhomerx

Plain to see you've never been to a Concil of Presidents meeting. They cover lots of deep and important issues. Athletics? Well not so much actually. What's the pointnof football schollies? Where are we going and how best do we get there? Great questions. Half of the Presidents would opt to drop merit aid altogether. So back to square one, how do we again create a situation to compel them to go along? Academics dislike confrontation. So first step will likely be tabling issue to an ad hoc committee to study the issue and hire an outside consultant.
Not a pretty picture. I like your scenario much better. Oh well.

[Pard4Life]

William & Mary
Holy Cross
Brown
Lafayette... yes Pards win their first game

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Holy Cross 7 Bucknell 6 7:34 2Q

The Crusaders offense is struggling. Bucknell has made some big plays but have had to settle for 2 FGs. I'm loving both team's uniforms. The all purple looks super clean while Bucknell's have a retro look.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Brown 21 Georgetown 0 6:46 2Q

Yuck

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What was I thinking, picking the Hoyas?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In Patriot League play, will we just be able to declare any team that is able to score 24 points the automatic winner? I am starting to have doubts that any PL offense will average scoring more than 20 points per game.

[aceinthehole]

Lafayette beating CCSU at home would now be considered an upset. Discuss.


CCSU remains an enigma, but we are listed anywhere from 10.5 to 13.5 point favorites for tonight

Because you just never know what Central team shows up any any given week, I'd probably take the points ...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Bison!! The move to Bitikofer(spelling?) has made a difference for the Bison offense. To be fair, it couldn't have been much worse. Still, two ugly showings in a row at home for HC. Chesney's streak of winning seasons might soon be coming to an end.

Bucknell 19-7 11:06 4Q

[RichH2]

TD Bison!! The move to Bitikofer(spelling?) has made a difference for the Bison offense. To be fair, it couldn't have been much worse. Still, two ugly showings in a row at home for HC. Chesney's streak of winning seasons might soon be coming to an end.

Bucknell 19-7 11:06 4Q

Well Susan has his D. He may have found a QB.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

HC defense notches a safety

19-9 8:10 4Q Crusaders about to get the ball back

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Crusaders!! Did this game change in a hurry!!

19-16 Bison 6:57 4Q

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Bucknell goes into Worcester and shocks Holy Cross! Bitikofer definitely gave the Bucknell offense a spark and the Crusaders bland offense played right into Bison D's favor.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Get used to 19-16 Patriot League scores

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cornell is beating Sacred Heart 43-17, just started the 4th Q. Just... putting that out there.

[DFW HOYA]

Brown 21 Georgetown 0 6:46 2Q

Yuck
Final: 35-7. An offensive coordinator that used to work at Clemson saw the Hoyas manage 72 yards passing ... against Brown.

[TheValleyRaider]

Underway in Williamsburg

[TheValleyRaider]

Strip sack and fumble recovery sets up Colgate in W&M territory. Matthews punches it in!

7-0 Colgate
10:08 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate nearly goes the length of the field, but stopped deep in W&M territory. Puzzi's short FG attempt is up and good

10-0 Colgate
1:36 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

Tribe picks up a 3rd down conversion to end the quarter. Colgate offense has looked incredibly efficient so far, would love to keep the good momentum going through the next quarter

Colgate 10
William & Mary 0
End 1st

[TheValleyRaider]

First play of the quarter sees the WR fumble and Colgate recover. Raiders get into the red zone and stall, Puzzi's FG up and good

13-0 Colgate
11:18 2nd

[TheValleyRaider]

W&M strings a drive together, getting some big plays to get deep into Colgate territory. FG attempt, though, is no good. Raider ball

13-0 Colgate
5:20 2nd

[TheValleyRaider]

Game has slowed considerably, as a Colgate drive ends further out. The 44 yd FG is good from Puzzi!

16-0 Colgate
0:44 2nd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Game has slowed considerably, as a Colgate drive ends further out. The 44 yd FG is good from Puzzi!

16-0 Colgate
0:44 2nd

Keep it up!!'Gate seems to be on complete command...but it's only two possessions xsmiley_wix

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Dear lord, that last sequence by Lafayette before the half.

[aceinthehole]

CCSU -17
Lafayette -14

Halftime

Central hits a 50-yd FG as time expires to end the half.

[TheValleyRaider]

Strange sequence at the end of the half. W&M runner inexplicably not ruled down, picked up 15 more yards to set up a short field for the Hail Mary. Long review reverses the call, deep pass caught at around the 10, clock runs out before W&M can snap the ball for the spike (apparently there is a rule there must be 3 seconds at least to have a spike, or something like that).

Anyway, Raiders get into the half. Offense was efficient early on, but has slowed a bit, especially in the red zone. Really need to turn these drives into TDs. Defense has played well, but benefited greatly from Tribe mistakes. Will need a good effort to finish this one off. Raiders get the ball to start the 2nd half.

Colgate 16
William & Mary 0
Halftime

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So Lafayette sacked the CCSU QB, CCSU calls their final time out with I think 17 seconds left. Why, I asked? Only bad things can happen here, a hail mary, a fumble - best case a short gain? CCSU answers why. CCSU QB delivers a shovel pass, and then the RB... escapes some tackles and gets out of bounds with 5 seconds left in the half. Goes like 30-35 yards on his run to set up a 50 yard FG try. He makes it.

How do you give up a play like that? How do you give up enough space to allow him to get into FG range?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

CCSU's away uniforms are really nice. I love the classic stripes on the pants. Good uniform day...lol

[TheValleyRaider]

Raiders go down the field for a score to start the half

23-0 Colgate
10:14 3rd

[aceinthehole]

CCSU's away uniforms are really nice. I love the classic stripes on the pants. Good uniform day...lol

Not a fan of our CENTRAL "tramp stamp" on the pants. Plus, we always look so sloppy with different color undershirt, socks, etc.

But I do like the classic striping on the CCSU pants and jersey slevees - that is a good look.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

TD Lafayette. A nice long sustained drive to take back the lead.

Lafayette 21, CCSU 17, 4:23 left, 3Q

[TheValleyRaider]

W&M drives deep into Colgate territory again, but is stopped on 4th down! The shutout holds for now

23-0 Colgate
2:49 3rd

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

TD Lafayette. A nice long sustained drive to take back the lead.

Lafayette 21, CCSU 17, 4:23 left, 3Q

This is the best I've seen O'Malley play since?...ever?

[aceinthehole]

CCSU's tackling is absolutely atrocious, and we are give the Leopards QB all day to pick us apart. Very disappointing play from the Blue Devils on both sides of the ball.

Central Conn. - 17
Lafayette - 21

Late in Q3

[TheValleyRaider]

Tribe has the ball on the Colgate side of the field as the clock expires

Colgate 23
William & Mary 0
End 3rd

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Tribe has the ball on the Colgate side of the field as the clock expires

Colgate 23
William & Mary 0
End 3rd

Great work by Colgate here. How many consecutive scoreless quarters is this now? Obvs at least 7.

[TheValleyRaider]

Daramy-Swaray ends another W&M drive with a pick!

23-0 Colgate
8:05
4th

[TheValleyRaider]

Great work by Colgate here. How many consecutive scoreless quarters is this now? Obvs at least 7.

Last score given up, a FG with 4:16 to go in the 2nd quarter to UNH

Last TD given up, HC with 6:59 to go in the 4th. Crusaders got 2 TDs in that quarter, the only TDs given up by Colgate so far this year

[Go...gate]

This is the best I've seen O'Malley play since?...ever?

Go Pards!

[Go...gate]

Colgate 23, W & M 0, 5:42 left in the game.

[TheValleyRaider]

Raiders get the ball back with just under 5 to play, looking to kill the clock.

There's the knee, that will do it

Colgate 23
William & Mary 0
Final

[Go...gate]

Colgate 23, W & M 0, final.

Colgate moves to 4-0, 2-0 in the Patriot League.

[TheValleyRaider]

Good performance early on offensively, but things slowed down, especially in the 2nd half. Definitely took the air out of the ball some too.

Defense played well enough, W&M is just not very explosive. Benefited from a few turnovers, and it's another shutout on the scoreboard.

Back home for Bucknell next

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Congrats to Colgate. I am impressed.

[RichH2]

Colgate 23, W & M 0, final.

Colgate moves to 4-0, 2-0 in the Patriot League.

Great W.

[RichH2]

CCSU ties it up 24-24.About 2 left.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Colgate 23, W & M 0, final.

Colgate moves to 4-0, 2-0 in the Patriot League.

Great win! Colgate did exactly what a Top 25 team should against a down Tribe team!

Not sure the last time the PL posted a 20+ point victory over a CAA team? Fordham against URI in 2003?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lafayette recovers a CCSU fumble! The Leopards will win!!

Congrats to Bucknell and Lafayette on their first wins! It's amazing what decent QB play will do for an offense...

[Pards Rule]

O'Malley with over 300 yards passing.. Congrats to our Pat brethren Colgate with a huge win over CAA

[TheValleyRaider]

Go Leopards

[aceinthehole]

Congrats Lafayette.

CCSU is flat out awful again this year.

Since CCSU upset #13 Towson to open the 2014 season, the Blue Devils are 3-17 vs. non-conference FCS opponents :(

[Go...gate]

This is Colgate's first win against William and Mary since September 1987, when Colgate prevailed, 19 - 7 at Andy Kerr Stadium.

[RichH2]

O'Malley with over 300 yards passing.. Congrats to our Pat brethren Colgate with a huge win over CAA

Kudos Pards. Nice clutch W.

[Go...gate]

Kudos Pards. Nice clutch W.

Congratulations to Lafayette on a nice win!

[ColgateTD]

Let's give a shout out to the Pards - nice going!

[the last indian]

Way to go spotted ones. You have had enough anguish for several seasons.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TheValleyRaider]

Just saw this note: this is the first time Colgate has gotten back-to-back shutouts since....1966

[Go...gate]

Just saw this note: this is the first time Colgate has gotten back-to-back shutouts since....1966

Yep. That 1966 team, coached by the late Hal Lahar, finished 8-1-1 with four shutouts, over Boston University, Columbia, Princeton and Bucknell.

[Pards Rule]

Im assigning Patriot League title this year to Gate and rooting for them in the playoffs!

[Pards Rule]

Yep. That 1966 team, coached by the late Hal Lahar, finished 8-1-1 with four shutouts, over Boston University, Columbia, Princeton and Bucknell.

Good stat! Did Lafayette get maybe a FG against that team?

[Bill]

Yep. That 1966 team, coached by the late Hal Lahar, finished 8-1-1 with four shutouts, over Boston University, Columbia, Princeton and Bucknell.

Wow - I think my Dad was on that team! I will have to double check which years he was there...

[Sader87]

The tie for Colgate '66 was with HC. 14-14 in Hamilton...a good HC team that beat BC that year.

[bulldog10jw]

Yep. That 1966 team, coached by the late Hal Lahar, finished 8-1-1 with four shutouts, over Boston University, Columbia, Princeton and Bucknell.

One of only 3 Colgate teams in the 60's that didn't play Yale. Instead, Yale played Rutgers in a driving rainstorm, lost 17-14, and Brian Dowling tore up his knee and missed the rest of the season.