Is this the best the Ivy League has been overall since going 1-AA/FCS?

[Sader87]

Curious to hear from our Ivy posters here but from an outsider's view, I think it is.

Very impressed with Dartmouth today. They had size, speed, depth etc...we were completely over-matched in every phase of the game.

It seems that every school in the Ancient VIII, even long suffering Columbia, has really improved their game, their recruiting etc.

I know the Ivies have had good teams in the FCS-era: UPenn in the 80s, Harvard the last 10 years or so etc....but I don't think it's been this strong overall since it went FCS in 1982.

[bonarae]

I agree.

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[Go...gate]

Top to bottom, probably yes.

[World]

It appears so.....

[cx500d]

I wasn’t aware they played in FCS


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[Go Green]

We're doing well OOC.

Dartmouth has more guys who had scholarship offers on the roster likely since the 1970s. I suspect that might be true for most Ivy teams.

[Son of Eli]

Harvard was in a league of their own from 2000 until a couple of years ago. Now the rest of the league has caught up to their tactics, which are national recruiting bolstered by generous needs based financial aid funded by huge endowments. It’s a recipe that has more than overcome the old obstacles of lack of athletic scholarships and the Academic Index. Furthermore, the Academic Index itself has been eroded by changes to SAT scoring and general grade inflation. The result is the highest quality Ivy League football since 1981.

[Little Stevie]

yes.

[DFW HOYA]

On first appearances, sure, but look at the teams the Ivy has played after two weeks:

Wins over:
Monmouth (#199 in Sagarin ratings)
Lehigh #204
Holy Cross #205
San Diego #207
CCSU #211
Butler #227
Bucknell #235
Georgetown #239 (two wins)

Losses to:
Delaware #146
Cal Poly #188

[Sader87]

The Ivies really should ramp up their scheduling to match their improvement in overall talent....my fear is that they seem to be so insular, they won't do so.

[cx500d]

The Ivies really should ramp up their scheduling to match their improvement in overall talent....my fear is that they seem to be so inbred, they won't do so.


FYP

[Go...gate]

The Ivies really should ramp up their scheduling to match their improvement in overall talent....my fear is that they seem to be so insular, they won't do so.

The scheduling doesn't look to be getting much better going forward. The Harvard approach seems to be increasingly the norm.

[Son of Eli]

On first appearances, sure, but look at the teams the Ivy has played after two weeks:

Wins over:
Monmouth (#199 in Sagarin ratings)
Lehigh #204
Holy Cross #205
San Diego #207
Butler #227
Bucknell #235
Georgetown #239 (two wins)

Losses to:
Delaware #146
Cal Poly #188


Not that it changes your underlying point, but you forgot the win over CCSU #211.

The two losses you mentioned were by the worst ranked Ivy teams, Cornell #216 and Brown #236.

[Sader87]

Yale vs Maine and Mercer will be interesting barometers this year.

[Son of Eli]

Also Harvard vs Rhode Island.

[World]

On first appearances, sure, but look at the teams the Ivy has played after two weeks:

Wins over:
Monmouth (#199 in Sagarin ratings)
Lehigh #204
Holy Cross #205
San Diego #207
CCSU #211
Butler #227
Bucknell #235
Georgetown #239 (two wins)

Losses to:
Delaware #146
Cal Poly #188


Speaking of Sagarin Ratings, here are the Ivy FCS rankings

8. Princeton
38. Dartmouth
42. Harvard
43. Yale
52. Penn
58. Columbia
85. Cornell
105. Brown


https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/

[Ivytalk]

FYP
Go swim in your own shallow gene pool, ya hoser.

[Go Green]

Speaking of Sagarin Ratings, here are the Ivy FCS rankings

8. Princeton
38. Dartmouth


I know this sounds disrespectful to the other Ivy teams--especially Harvard, given that Dartmouth hasn't beaten them in forever...

But I think that the winner of the Dartmouth-Princeton game will get the Ivy title.

[Ivytalk]

The Ivies really should ramp up their scheduling to match their improvement in overall talent....my fear is that they seem to be so insular, they won't do so.
*insulah

- - - Updated - - -


I know this sounds disrespectful to the other Ivy teams--especially Harvard, given that Dartmouth hasn't beaten them in forever...

But I think that the winner of the Dartmouth-Princeton game will get the Ivy title.
And you may well be right!

[bulldog10jw]

But I think that the winner of the Dartmouth-Princeton game will get the Ivy title.

Certainly possible. Not surprised you would think that.

[Go...gate]

I remember that last I-A season (1981). Yale went 9-1 and defeated Air Force on ABC-TV. Received votes in the AP and UPI Top 20 - may have even made it to #20 late in the season before being upset by Princeton in an all-time classic at Palmer Stadium.

That Yale team was awfully good.

[bulldog10jw]

I remember that last I-A season (1981). Yale went 9-1 and defeated Air Force on ABC-TV. Received votes in the AP and UPI Top 20 - may have even made it to #20 late in the season before being upset by Princeton in an all-time classic at Palmer Stadium.

That Yale team was awfully good.

Navy, not Air Force, although Yale did beat Air Force in 1980

[Sader87]

Yale beat HC 29-28 at Fitton in 1981....just a tremendous game...one of the best I've seen in person.

[The Boogie Down]

Navy, not Air Force, although Yale did beat Air Force in 1980

1981 featured a very good Navy side. I was just old enough to watch/follow football back then but remember Navy being on TV often. They lost to Michigan and Ohio State by a combined 8 points and beat many of the then "weaker" Eastern Indies like BC and Syracuse but, as was always the case back then, got killed by Notre Dame. They also came up short (while again on national TV) against one helluva Yale team. Maybe the last great Ivy team?

[bulldog10jw]

Yale beat HC 29-28 at Fitton in 1981....just a tremendous game...one of the best I've seen in person.

That 1981 game was the only time I've been to Fitton. Great game, great atmosphere.

[Sader87]

Is there anyway the Ivies can play an FBS school and have it count as a "bowl countah" game? It just seems ridiculous that FBS schools can count games against certain FCS schools due to scholarship equivalences that don't invest anywhere near the $$$ and resources a Yale, Harvard or Princeton do for football.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Is there anyway the Ivies can play an FBS school and have it count as a "bowl countah" game? It just seems ridiculous that FBS schools can count games against certain FCS schools due to scholarship equivalences that don't invest anywhere near the $$$ and resources a Yale, Harvard or Princeton do for football.

I'd pay to watch Princeton beat Rutgers this year!

[Pard4Life]

I'd pay to watch Princeton beat Rutgers this year!

No question that that would actually happen. Rutgers plays Monmouth in 2020 and Princeton clobbered them. Rutgers is a joke.

[Pard4Life]

Best Ivy team I've seen is 2004 Harvard. Ironically led by tonight's starting MNF QB.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Best Ivy team I've seen is 2004 Harvard. Ironically led by tonight's starting MNF QB.

Clifton Dawson was also a monster! That 2004 team definitely could have matched up and beaten JMU, Montana etc. that year. Not saying they would but the horses and coaching was there. 2003 Penn was also really good; 10-0 and a final Top 10 TSN ranking iirc.

College Game Day went to Franklin Field right around that time. I know I was still at Temple when it happened. Harvard and Penn had some very worthy teams capable of winning the national title imo. It's a damn shame they were never given the chance.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.thecrimson.com/photos/2002/11/18/122050_1669.jpg

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I remember that last I-A season (1981). Yale went 9-1 and defeated Air Force on ABC-TV. Received votes in the AP and UPI Top 20 - may have even made it to #20 late in the season before being upset by Princeton in an all-time classic at Palmer Stadium.

That Yale team was awfully good.

My memory of Palmer Stadium is watching Keith Elias clown Lehigh in the early 90's. I can still picture it pretty well. By that point the endzone section of the horseshoe was condemned/closed off iirc.

The Ivy League has great football. I've always enjoyed Lehigh's games/association with the league, especially Princeton and Penn. I've said before the real sleeping giants in FCS are the Ivies. If Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Penn wanted to put just a little more into football they'd end NDSU's run. Hopefully the PL steps up their game and re-instill the competitive balance.

History has shown when Lehigh is at the top of their game they dominate the Ivies. From '98 to '05 and '10 through '13 they had nearly flawless records against the Ancient 8. I'm not sure if that will happen again but losing by 20+ each game can't keep happening either.

[World]

My memory of Palmer Stadium is watching Keith Elias clown Lehigh in the early 90's. I can still picture it pretty well. By that point the endzone section of the horseshoe was condemned/closed off iirc.

The Ivy League has great football. I've always enjoyed Lehigh's games/association with the league, especially Princeton and Penn. I've said before the real sleeping giants in FCS are the Ivies. If Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Penn wanted to put just a little more into football they'd end NDSU's run. Hopefully the PL steps up their game and re-instill the competitive balance.

History has shown when Lehigh is at the top of their game they dominate the Ivies. From '98 to '05 and '10 through '13 they had nearly flawless records against the Ancient 8. I'm not sure if that will happen again but losing by 20+ each game can't keep happening either.

Yep, Princeton's RB Keith Elias was very special. Still remember a tremendous game in which he rushed for about 285 yards....

[ngineer]

I am waiting with anticipation the Lehigh/Princeton game in ten days. Usually a very competitive game, this has all the makings of a blood bath.

[Son of Eli]

Recent article from Lehigh Football Nation explains the rise of Ivy Football over the last 10 years.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/10/how-ivy-league-is-able-to-break-ncaas.html

[RichH2]

Recent article from Lehigh Football Nation explains the rise of Ivy Football over the last 10 years.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/10/how-ivy-league-is-able-to-break-ncaas.html
He nailed it. The odd fact I've noticed over the last few years is the ability of Ivies to admit some players that Lehigh offered but could not get admitted.Perhaps merely that the Ivy had a low band slot available while Lehigh didnt. Still the first time that I have ever seen that.
Ivy amped up their already formidable recruiting in response to PL starting scholarships. IVy always had 2 or 3 top teams . Now they are competitive top to bottom. It is a shame they are following Harvard's OOC scheduling.

[Ivytalk]

Recent article from Lehigh Football Nation explains the rise of Ivy Football over the last 10 years.

https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/10/how-ivy-league-is-able-to-break-ncaas.html
Informative, yes, but it contains some vintage PL whinery.xpeacex

[RichH2]

Informative, yes, but it contains some vintage PL whinery.xpeacex
You rather miss the actual point Ivy. Ivy recruiting is an at base an arms race inside The IL given its parochial insular nature. He is noting the impact of that arms race particularly for those of us that schedule Ivy OOC games. Most PL fans relish Ivy games which have become fewer and fewer over the last 5 years as well as less competitive. For good or ill PL fans tend to gauge our teams against the Ivies and CAA teams. FBS games have become a more recent and rather daunting measure. :)
The point for us is what do we need to do now to become competitive with these games. When the PL adopted scholarship aid the Ivies reacted by amping up their recruiting. What options exist for the Pl to respond and will our Presidents decide to actually act. Some of those restrictions are holdovers from our IVY Lite inception. Our AI,while not identical to the Ivy model has become more of an issue as admission requirements have risen substantially in the PL over the last decade. The recruiting gap for us consisting of prospects not quite up to Ivy standards no longer exists in any meaningful sense. That pool is has become a minor source for recruits. While we still compete for many of the same recruits , our main competition for prospects is with the Academies,CAA and G5 FBS teams. That competition brings up our other restrictions on redshirting and PL caps on aid and roster size. PL has continued the same rules as enacted in our IvyLite phase.
The PL recruiting landscape presents an untenable situation for any consistent league wide competitive improvement. LFN correctly notes the current imbalance for us versus the Ivies. The point is not that the Ivies are doing anything wrong or unethical. They are merely employing their advantages to out recruit most FCS schools and a good number of FBS teams. It is what it is. The question for us is what ,if anything, can we do to improve ourselves.

[Go...gate]

Princeton's team is certainly very strong, and Dartmouth's squad looks very good as well. Columbia struggled to beat Marist and Brown was hammered by URI. Cornell pulled a nice upset over Harvard. Penn had a close road win over Sacred Heart.

[Go Green]

Dartmouth #3, Princeton #7 in Hero's poll:

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-rankings

[caribbeanhen]

I think the Delaware domination over Ivy Cornell is helping Delaware in the computer polls

after seeing Cornell for a few plays, I said they were so much better than Laffy .... not close

and after seeing Yale whip Maine,

adn how pedestrian Harvard looked vs Rhode Island, I had a pretty good feeling Cornell was going to beat Harvard