Patriot League Pick 'Em - Week 3

[TheValleyRaider]

Surprised not to see this thread yet, but wanted to make sure we have a space for our usual chatter. Keep us out of other people's threads, you know? Or at least as much as possible.

Rough weekend for the League, no question. Ivies get started this week as well, though not quite the IL-PL Challenge slate of season's past

COLGATE @ Furman

Yale @ HOLY CROSS

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth

BUCKNELL @ Penn

LEHIGH @ Navy

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE

Game of the Week: Raiders in SC to face a SoCon power, two teams hanging around the edge of the Top 25. You got a better option?

[bonarae]

COLGATE @ Furman

Yale @ HOLY CROSS

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth

BUCKNELL @ Penn

LEHIGH @ Navy

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE

[Go Green]

Rough weekend for the League, no question.

Doesn't look like it gets any easier this week.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Doesn't look like it gets any easier this week.

I agree. After 1-6 last week 1-6 or 0-7 seems very possible. Not good. The league is on pace to be as bad or worse than last year in the OOC...

[TheValleyRaider]

Gotta get my picks in as well. Comments about it not being a great weekend stand, though I did go 4-2, so hurrah for me. 10-2 on the season. I'm usually one of the optimists, but it's hard to improve that record with this slate of matchups.

Colgate at Furman Colgate I am hesitant about this one, given our three previous meetings with the Paladins have been noncompetitive beatdowns. This is probably some kind of matchup problem for us, but does feel a little different given Furman's performance so far this year. Defense is in pretty good shape so far this year, so hopefully the offense starts to gel more consistently down in South Carolina. Hurricane willing, of course.

Yale at Holy Cross Yale This is quite an opening slate for Chesney and the Crusaders, facing 2 league title favorites and a solid Power 5 FBS. Results haven't been unexpected so far, though the Saders showed some fight in Hamilton. On the plus side, they finally get a game in Worcester. The other hand? They're still not at the level of an Ivy favorite, not one expected to be as strong as old Eli.

Georgetown at Dartmouth Dartmouth I can't say with complete confidence that Campbell was G'town's last, best chance at another win this year (they still have the entire PL slate in front of them), but it doesn't look great from here, starting with the Big Green. Hoyas have wanted Ivy matchups, and so they're going to get one. Dartmouth isn't quite the contender they were in previous years, but mid-level Ivy is better than low-level Patriot.

Bucknell at Pennsylvania Pennsylvania Bucknell followed up a decent showing in Week 1 with a dismal response in Week 2. The endemic lack of offense will continue to bite this team, though they may pull a Georgetown and drop big points on some unsuspecting and overmatched team. That will have to be in the future, as Penn is not overmatched here.

Lehigh at Navy Navy The Mountain Hawks dip their taloned toes into the FBS pool, which feels like the appropriate metaphor given the opponent is Navy. Annapolis is a nice town to visit, and the gameday experience at the Academy is fun for players and fans. Well, not the part where Lehigh gets run over by a much better team, but the real victory will be the memories they make along the way.

Stony Brook at Fordham Stony Brook I wasn't surprised to see the Rams go down on Saturday, but not like that, given the fight they showed against Charlotte. Comments stand about Fordham's ability to make noise in the League race (whatever that is worth), but I doubt we see that in this matchup. The Seawolves are probably better than the Spiders, which is not a great sign. A bounceback from the Rams? Sure. Actually winning? Well, I'll be pulling for them.

Monmouth at Lafayette Monmouth The home team has won every meeting in this series, all two of them, with the Hawks winning in NJ last season (the Pards' victory was in 2002). So, the game being in Easton is a nice plus for Lafayette. Okay, fine, so it's the only plus here. Fringe playoff contender against a fringe bottom-dweller doesn't usually end well for the latter, wherever the game is being played.

[ngineer]

Colgate/Furman should be a close shave. Will any fur be left after the Paladins get "pasted"....Raiders, 28-24

Crusaders feeling 'cross' after last week's debacle and Yale looking to start strong on its season. Yale is a lock, 35-14

Hoyas make a long trek in to Indian country. Georgetown feeling Green after Saturday. Dartmouth 38-17

The Penn is mightier than the Bison chips. Hopefully, the mess is cleaned up on Franklin Field's artificial turf before the following week. Penn 41-17.

Lehigh limps into Annapolis a single dimension team without Bragalone. Maybe an a "new and improved" D for Lehigh, but they will get swept out by the Navy Tide. 45-21.

Fordham seeking some pebbles of granite after getting chisled last week. SBU has the bigger stones in the brook. 49-19

Leotards look for a run in their stockings and might consider just taking a pass this week and sleeping in. Might be more productive. Monmouth 36-6

[DFW HOYA]

Hoyas have wanted Ivy matchups, and so they're going to get one.

Georgetown is absent from a lot of Ivy future schedules. Cornell and Columbia in 2019, then just Columbia in 2020 and 2021, and that's it for now.

[PAllen]

While Gate has the best shot of them all, especially with the chance of weather keep the score down, I've gotta go against the PL across the board again.

[LU808]

Navy 45 - lehigh 9

[Pard4Life]

Colgate/Furman should be a close shave. Will any fur be left after the Paladins get "pasted"....Raiders, 28-24

Crusaders feeling 'cross' after last week's debacle and Yale looking to start strong on its season. Yale is a lock, 35-14

Hoyas make a long trek in to Indian country. Georgetown feeling Green after Saturday. Dartmouth 38-17

The Penn is mightier than the Bison chips. Hopefully, the mess is cleaned up on Franklin Field's artificial turf before the following week. Penn 41-17.

Lehigh limps into Annapolis a single dimension team without Bragalone. Maybe an a "new and improved" D for Lehigh, but they will get swept out by the Navy Tide. 45-21.

Fordham seeking some pebbles of granite after getting chisled last week. SBU has the bigger stones in the brook. 49-19

Leotards look for a run in their stockings and might consider just taking a pass this week and sleeping in. Might be more productive. Monmouth 36-6

So Lehigh will score more points on Navy than St. Francis and Nova? And without your RB?

[Go Green]

Georgetown is absent from a lot of Ivy future schedules. Cornell and Columbia in 2019, then just Columbia in 2020 and 2021, and that's it for now.

Any insight on why that is? Dartmouth seemed to enjoy visiting DC a few years back.

[van]

6-0 last week, 10-2 for the year, seems this weeks picks are pretty easy

COLGATE @ Furman, gate already has one win over purple and their D should shut down anything Furman can muster

Yale @ HOLY CROSS, opening week and Eli might be a little shaky but they should handle Cross with ease

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth, no idea what Green has this year but pretty sure Hoyas cupboards are pretty thin

BUCKNELL @ Penn, Buffs are offensively challenged and their D can't score enough either

LEHIGH @ Navy, bit of a mismatch, hope for injury free day as OL is already depleted

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM, Rams not showing much and no match for a strong CAA team

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE, dumpster fire continues in Easton

[Go Green]

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth, no idea what Green has this year

Short answer- excellent defense, excellent receivers, excellent O-Line.

Questions at QB, RB, and TE. If we can get decent production from those areas, we will be in the Ivy hunt.

[van]

Short answer- excellent defense, excellent receivers, excellent O-Line.

Questions at QB, RB, and TE. If we can get decent production from those areas, we will be in the Ivy hunt.

in that case it will be a long day for Hoyas

[carney2]

I thought I turned this assignment over to DFW. Apparently not.

COLGATE @ Furman - Furman has been blown out twice and is apparently starting a freshman QB. Not your Grampa's Paladins.

Yale @ HOLY CROSS - The Crossers continue their stroll through the Valley of the Shadow of Death.

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth - No contest.

BUCKNELL @ Penn - Bucky's D will not do him all that much good here.

LEHIGH @ Navy - With No Bragalone to run the clock, the pant loads will be hard pressed to score.

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM - If it weren't for Georgetown and Lafayette, we'd all be looking for the Rams at the bottom of the toilet.

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE - THE question is, Can the Leopards score an offensive TD? Unless a Monmouth DB or two trip over their shoelaces, the answer is No.

[DFW HOYA]

I'll catch up this evening, thanks.

[Go Green]

in that case it will be a long day for Hoyas

If its good weather (and at present, that's the forecast) in Hanover for Saturday, I can see Georgetown's QB giving them enough offense to make the score respectable for the Sunday papers. It was raining last Saturday in DC against Campbell and I think that he wasn't able to get going. He has a big arm, that's for sure.

But I don't think the game will ever be in doubt. Dartmouth should win easily.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Florence might win the Colgate/Furman game and maybe even the Lehigh/Navy game, though there is no word yet. Any stray thought of moving the game to Hamilton?

[Bluefish845]

Colgate
Yale
Dartmouth
Penn
Navy
Stony Brook
Monmouth

12-1 in PL Pick'em

[carney2]

A multiple choice quiz for Patriot League football aficionados:

The most useless creature on the planet is

A. a Lafayette offensive lineman.
B. a Lafayette running back.
C. a Lafayette quarterback.
D. a Lafayette receiver.
E. all of the above.

Not to worry, John Garrett is an offensive genius and a molder of great quarterbacks.

[Go Green]

Colgate
Yale
Dartmouth
Penn
Navy
Stony Brook
Monmouth



Maybe we should ask if anyone is NOT agreeing with the above picks? Best I can tell, we all seem to be making the same predictions here...

:)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A multiple choice quiz for Patriot League football aficionados:

The most useless creature on the planet is

A. a Lafayette offensive lineman.
B. a Lafayette running back.
C. a Lafayette quarterback.
D. a Lafayette receiver.
E. all of the above.

Not to worry, John Garrett is an offensive genius and a molder of great quarterbacks.

At least their Lafayette degree will be able to be useful when Lehigh grads determine whether they should be hired or not.

[PAllen]

Maybe we should ask if anyone is NOT agreeing with the above picks? Best I can tell, we all seem to be making the same predictions here...

:)

If they play, Furman wins. Other than that, yeah, we agree.

[Lehigh'98]

H. Cross and Colgate pull the upsets this week.

[Gangtackle11]

Colgate
Yale
Dartmouth
Penn
Navy
Stony Brook
Monmouth

[van]

H. Cross and Colgate pull the upsets this week.

how can a gate win be an upset, Furple has been creamed both weeks

Cross beating Eli is more than an upset, would need an investigation to follow up on that

[TheValleyRaider]

how can a gate win be an upset, Furple has been creamed both weeks

Furman also ate our lunch in Hamilton last year, and got another two big blowouts within the last decade

I see their performance so far this year, but are the two teams we've beaten by one possession really better than the Paladins?

[RichH2]

Much as I would love to dive into this quagmire of gloom, I'll wait a bit to see if Navy game is actually on.

[ColgateTD]

COLGATE @ Furman, gate already has one win over purple and their D should shut down anything Furman can muster

Yale @ HOLY CROSS, opening week and Eli might be a little shaky but they should handle Cross with ease

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth, no idea what Green has this year but pretty sure Hoyas cupboards are pretty thin

BUCKNELL @ Penn, Buffs are offensively challenged and their D can't score enough either

LEHIGH @ Navy, bit of a mismatch, hope for injury free day as OL is already depleted

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM, Rams not showing much and no match for a strong CAA team

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE, dumpster fire continues in Easton

Ditto.....But "Florence" wins over "Gate/Furman" if the weather predictions are correct..

[Go...gate]

Florence might win the Colgate/Furman game and maybe even the Lehigh/Navy game, though there is no word yet. Any stray thought of moving the game to Hamilton?

We have home and home games scheduled with them in '20 and '21. Might make sense to play in Hamilton Saturday and just play those later games in Greenville.

- - - Updated - - -


how can a gate win be an upset, Furple has been creamed both weeks

Cross beating Eli is more than an upset, would need an investigation to follow up on that

It would definitely be an upset.

[DFW HOYA]

A day delayed, but here goes:


Colgate at Furman - Greenville figures to be south of the brunt of the hurricane by Saturday, but I would not be surprised to see the game canceled. If not, Colgate is one PL team that doesn't mind traveling on the road and meets a Furman team that has not scored a point in the first three quarters this season. The Paladins are averaging less than 60 yards a game in the air and that has to change because the Colgate run defense could really lock them down.


Yale at Holy Cross: Yale is aiming at an undefeated season for the first time in 50 years and the challenge starts Saturday. HC is better than the outcome at BC suggests, but Yale dominated the Purple last year (32-0) and should be favored to do so again. As Lee Corso might say, Yale wins, "but closer than expected!"


Georgetown at Dartmouth: The Indians return six starters on defense and if they put pressure on Georgetown QB Gunther Johnson, the Hoyas will struggle to get yards. Georgetown doesn't have the depth to play from behind so it needs to strike early; otherwise, the GU defense won't win this game on its own.


Bucknell at Pennsylvania: Penn has more talent and a home field advantage. The Bison will play with spirit and will still lose by seven.


Lehigh at Navy: No Bragalone? No chance. the Engineers will have a hard time controlling Navy on either line of scrimmage, and LU is likely to start a three game road trip at 1-2.


Stony Brook at Fordham: Rams, in the upset.


Monmouth at Lafayette: Hawks, not an upset. Lafayete could be staring at 0-5 heading into PL play without some marked improvement on the ground.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Furman/Colgate has just been cancelled. So the winner of that game was "Florence".

[Go Green]

Furman/Colgate has just been cancelled. So the winner of that game was "Florence".

Then the PL may very well be 4-16 for the year after Saturday...

[TheValleyRaider]

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx
(https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx)
Colgate donating the htel rooms and team meals to people needing the during the storm

Sucks to lose a game, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Free bye week I guess. Next up, Homecoming against Lafayette

[RichH2]

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx
(https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx)
Colgate donating the htel rooms and team meals to people needing the during the storm

Sucks to lose a game, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Free bye week I guess. Next up, Homecoming against Lafayette

Very well done by Colgate.

[ngineer]

So Lehigh will score more points on Navy than St. Francis and Nova? And without your RB?
I think there will be a lot of passing in this game and Navy's D has not been all that great. I think Villanova may be better than Navy.

[Go...gate]

Sorry to see our game cancelled, but absolutely the right thing to do.

So I will be rooting for Lehigh and Princeton Saturday! Go Engineers and Tigers!

- - - Updated - - -


I think there will be a lot of passing in this game and Navy's D has not been all that great. I think Villanova may be better than Navy.

I think Lehigh could do some damage against the Navy.

[Bill]

Sorry to see our game cancelled, but absolutely the right thing to do.

So I will be rooting for Lehigh and Princeton Saturday! Go Engineers and Tigers!

- - - Updated - - -



I think Lehigh could do some damage against the Navy.

Go..gate,
I agree! Lehigh could definitely do some damage against many of the Navy's football teams. Unfortunately, they'll be playing the US Naval Academy...and will have no chance of doing any damage against themxlolx

Is there a wise-ass emoji? I would have inserted that there.

[PAllen]

I think last year's team would have had a much better shot against this Navy squad than this year's version Engineers. Last year's team was at least capable of a LU/Towson esque first one to not score loses type contest. Neither squad had a D that could stop Navy, and this year's O isn't good enough to score on every possession.

[RichH2]

I think there will be a lot of passing in this game and Navy's D has not been all that great. I think Villanova may be better than Navy.
I think you are right. I watched Navy-Memphis a couple of times. Navy pass D is very soft. If OL can give Brad some time, he could have a good day. Perry will be a challenge for our D.

[Go...gate]

Go..gate,
I agree! Lehigh could definitely do some damage against many of the Navy's football teams. Unfortunately, they'll be playing the US Naval Academy...and will have no chance of doing any damage against themxlolx

Is there a wise-ass emoji? I would have inserted that there.

The Naval Academy's football team has a pretty porous defense, so, as I said, Lehigh could definitely do some damage.

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross 23, Yale 20

Dartmouth 21, Georgetown 16

Bucknell 24, Pennsylvania 21

Navy 49, Lehigh 27

Stony Brook 31, Fordham 21

Monmouth 30, Lafayette 23

Bonus Pick: Butler 26, Princeton 24

[carney2]

Monmouth 30, Lafayette 23




I always enjoy your picks, but I've got to ask how much thought went into this one. Lafayette could not score 23 points against the East Brunswick Middle School JVs, let alone a legitimate FCS playoff contender. We're not talking about a Low-O team here, we're talking No-O. You'll see it for yourself next week on the Tundra.

[DFW HOYA]

I always enjoy your picks, but I've got to ask how much thought went into this one. Lafayette could not score 23 points against the East Brunswick Middle School JVs, let alone a legitimate FCS playoff contender. We're not talking about a Low-O team here, we're talking No-O. You'll see it for yourself next week on the Tundra.

Agreed. Excepting the Lehigh game, the Leopards have scored a total of 20 points in its last five games dating back to last season.

[Pards Rule]

And Colgate will get an extra week of rest and prep for the following week's Lafayette game because the game at Furman was cancelled....

[The Boogie Down]

Stony Brook at Fordham: Rams, in the upset.

Maybe you're drinking while writing or maybe I'm drinking while reading but, either way, only lots of alcohol can make the above statement true.xdrunkyxxbeerchugxxdrunkyx

[Go...gate]

I always enjoy your picks, but I've got to ask how much thought went into this one. Lafayette could not score 23 points against the East Brunswick Middle School JVs, let alone a legitimate FCS playoff contender. We're not talking about a Low-O team here, we're talking No-O. You'll see it for yourself next week on the Tundra.

I thought they would lose but that their offense might break out a bit. It really is that bad?

[RichH2]

As has been the PL story for the last couple of years, we just cant wait for the OOC to end. :)

Dartmouth by less than you would expect.
Yale is too much for a rebuilding Holy Cross.
Bucknell in another baseball score game
Navy hopefully in a shoot out.
Stony Brook close over Fordham
Monmouth over Pards. Pards will score a TD, I think. :)

[LU808]

Navy 49 Lehigh 12

[van]

Navy 49 Lehigh 12

while that is possible, I am more convinced that we can hang with the midshipmen if the OL improves enough to give Mayes time to throw, big question for me is how long it takes for the D to adjust to the option, as Suits said, we have no scout O that can run the option remotely as well as Navy runs it

[RichH2]

while that is possible, I am more convinced that we can hang with the midshipmen if the OL improves enough to give Mayes time to throw, big question for me is how long it takes for the D to adjust to the option, as Suits said, we have no scout O that can run the option remotely as well as Navy runs it

Odds are that Navy will eat up large chunks of time running. If we we can get some stops, we have a chance. Agree if OL can give Brad time we can score. We must open up the O. We are not Hawaii with the run and shoot or Memphis with speed burners. Even Navy's soft pass D can defend that vanilla O.

[Leopard Loyalist]

I will join the (mostly) unanimous selections.

Yale @ HOLY CROSS

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth

BUCKNELL @ Penn

LEHIGH @ Navy

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE

[DFW HOYA]

The Massey Ratings picks are not promising.

Yale vs Holy Cross (Yale, 81% likelihood of winning)
Monmouth vs Lafayette (Monmouth, 89%)
Bucknell vs Penn (Penn, 93%)
Stony Brook vs Fordham (Stony Brook, 94%)
Georgetown vs Dartmouth (Dartmouth, 97%)
Lehigh vs Navy (Navy, 100%)

[maninthehighcastle]

COLGATE @ Furman

Yale @ HOLY CROSS

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth

BUCKNELL @ Penn

LEHIGH @ Navy

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE

[ColgateTD]

https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx
(https://gocolgateraiders.com/news/2018/9/12/colgate-furman-football-canceled.aspx)
Sucks to lose a game, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

We didn't lose this game. It was cancelled.....yuk-yuk

[kdinva]

Yale 31 @ Holy Cross 17
Georgetown 24 @ Dartmouth 27
Bucknell 17 @ Penn 27
Lehigh 13 @ Navy 54
Stony Brook 27 @ Fordham 21
Monmouth 31 @ Lafayette 13

[hawkineer]

Odds are that Navy will eat up large chunks of time running. If we we can get some stops, we have a chance. Agree if OL can give Brad time we can score. We must open up the O. We are not Hawaii with the run and shoot or Memphis with speed burners. Even Navy's soft pass D can defend that vanilla O.
I am not convinced that this receiving corp cam get any separation even if Mayes is given time. Troy and Gatlin had a lot to do with Mayes effectiveness last year. This group got almost none last week.

[RichH2]

I am not convinced that this receiving corp cam get any separation even if Mayes is given time. Troy and Gatlin had a lot to do with Mayes effectiveness last year. This group got almost none last week.
True. Starters are all quick and athletic but not tall or with exceptional flat out speed. Nova D played 20 yds in relying on their Dline to pressure Mayes. Most of our pass O was short to medium shots in front of DBs. OC ran a vanilla O as he did vs SFU. No crossing patterns,flares or stop and goes. Not sure why. The few long passes were simple flies by outside receivers. Our guys are fast enough but not any faster than the Nova kids. No running attack made us one dimensional so regardless of what we called Nova usually could keep 7 back.

[carney2]

I thought they would lose but that their offense might break out a bit. It really is that bad?

Worse. At Delaware I believe that the longest offensive series lasted 5 plays.

[PAllen]

Looks like I'll be in Annapolis for this one. Got tickets for the family from a friend in section 26.

[Go...gate]

Looks like I'll be in Annapolis for this one. Got tickets for the family from a friend in section 26.

It is a great place to watch a football game. Have a great time!

[van]

Looks like I'll be in Annapolis for this one. Got tickets for the family from a friend in section 26.

good, looking forward to an eyewitness report on the game

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'll be at The Big House for Michigan-SMU with one eye on the PL scores.

Yale 34 HC 20
Dartmouth 24 Georgetown 10
Penn 27 Bucknell 13
Navy 42 Lehigh 17
Stony Brook 38 Fordham 17
Monmouth 42 Lafayette 10

[Bill]

I sit at 11-2 on the year - which is great - but the bad news is a trained circus animal can just pick against the PL so far...

Here we go:

Yale @ HOLY CROSS

GEORGETOWN @ Dartmouth

BUCKNELL @ Penn

LEHIGH @ Navy

Stony Brook @ FORDHAM

Monmouth @ LAFAYETTE

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As tempting as it is to take Holy Cross with the best shot at an upset, I will take "everyone who is facing off against a Patriot League team for $200, Alex".

Only lost 1 game so far this season.

Also, here's my Lehigh/Navy breakdown and prediction:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/09/2018-week-3-navy-game-breakdown-and.html

[Pard4Life]

Odds are that Navy will eat up large chunks of time running. If we we can get some stops, we have a chance.

You have no chance.

[Pard4Life]

As tempting as it is to take Holy Cross with the best shot at an upset, I will take "everyone who is facing off against a Patriot League team for $200, Alex".

Only lost 1 game so far this season.

Also, here's my Lehigh/Navy breakdown and prediction:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/09/2018-week-3-navy-game-breakdown-and.html

Yes HC only PL team with a chance. This league is pathetic right now. Colgate only team worth anything. Worst that the PL has been since mid-1980s pre-Gordie??

[Sader87]

HC battled back after a brutal start...21-0 1st 5 or so minutes....28-14 at H.

[DFW HOYA]

Halftime:

Georgetown 0
Dartmouth 20

Indians moving with ease. Hoyas have one first down and minus-four yards rushing.

[Sader87]

Yes HC only PL team with a chance. This league is pathetic right now. Colgate only team worth anything. Worst that the PL has been since mid-1980s pre-Gordie??

There was no Colonial/Patriot League pre-Gordie btw

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yale 28 Holy Cross 21 late 4th
Penn 27 Bucknell 3 early 2Q

[RichH2]

Navy 28 Lehigh 7 early 2nd

[Southsider]

Lehigh radio guys are giddy just being there. Really sad. Right now team is worse. Another turnover

[Southsider]

31-7. Offense really letting this team down. Mayes has had more balls batted down at the line of scrimmage the last few years than any LU QB in memory.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Holy Cross beats Yale in OT!

[bulldog10jw]

Congrats to Holy Cross. They deserved the win.

[Southsider]

Way to go Cross! Looks like they have a coach with some fire in his belly. Would he like living in the Lehigh Valley?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As tempting as it is to take Holy Cross with the best shot at an upset, I will take "everyone who is facing off against a Patriot League team for $200, Alex".

Only lost 1 game so far this season.

Also, here's my Lehigh/Navy breakdown and prediction:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2018/09/2018-week-3-navy-game-breakdown-and.html

Got to learn to listen to those nagging gut feelings more often, well done Holy Cross

[Pard4Life]

So that comeback against an Ivy: the most un-Holy Cross like finish imaginable?

- - - Updated - - -


Got to learn to listen to those nagging gut feelings more often, well done Holy Cross

You quoting yourself now LFN?

[Southsider]

LU offense is offensive to anyone who follows this team. Very poor performance for 3 straight games. Navy’s points are not a surprise. Lack of grit on LU O is!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

LU offense is offensive to anyone who follows this team. Very poor performance for 3 straight games. Navy’s points are not a surprise. Lack of grit on LU O is!

Could the loss the Cech and Folmar be catching up? They were obviously two great OC's. I

[Southsider]

Could the loss the Cech and Folmar be catching up? They were obviously two great OC's. I

If you are a good coach, you are not at LU! This is getting really sad. All the ingredients for a solid program in place, except the commitment from admin and PL

[RichH2]

Brisson is not either of them. He has opened the playbook a bit but Mayes is shaky.Too many bad decisions.
Southsider entitled to be disappointed but given what we have on the field he probably should tone it down. The O is missing 3 OL and the starting WR and RB. Mayes has not stepped up tho. Pressing too much. Bad reads and bad decisions.

[CHIP72]

It would be nice if Lehigh could do something when I’m in attendance. It was 14-7 with Lehigh at about the Navy 30 yard line when I got here and the Midshipmen have dominated by a 20-0 count since...

At least Temple whipped Maryland, with an assist from the Terps, who played terrible on both sides of the ball, especially on offense. (Incidentally, I left that game to come to Annapolis right after Temple returned an interception for a TD with about 5 minutes left in 4th quarter.)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Southsider]

Brisson is not either of them. He has opened the playbook a bit but Mayes is shaky.Too many bad decisions.
Southsider entitled to be disappointed but given what we have on the field he probably should tone it down. The O is missing 3 OL and the starting WR and RB. Mayes has not stepped up tho. Pressing too much. Bad reads and bad decisions.

While I am only listening on radio, after watching Coen’ s teams over the years, I just know they are like deer in the headlights. They don’t know how to step up. That is sad. That doesn’t mean I expect a win every time out, but show some fire. And with that, another PICK!!!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It would be nice if Lehigh could do something when I’m in attendance. It was 14-7 with Lehigh at about the Navy 30 yard line when I got here and the Midshipmen have dominated by a 20-0 count since...

At least Temple whipped Maryland, with an assist from the Terps, who played terrible on both sides of the ball, especially on offense. (Incidentally, I left that game to come to Annapolis right after Temple returned an interception for a TD with about 5 minutes left in 4th quarter.)

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Great win for the Owls! Didnt see that one coming!

[CHIP72]

Great win for the Owls! Didnt see that one coming!

Yeah, neither did I...until I did!


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[CHIP72]

This has been an absolutely pathetic performance by Lehigh. Yeah, I don’t expect the Mountain Hawks to win, but I do want them to fight and compete. They are playing like a bunch of beached whales that are totally helpless.

If Lehigh is going to be THIS uncompetitive against DI-A/FBS teams, then they shouldn’t play those games, paycheck or not.


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[Lehigh Football Nation]

Guys, I'm starting to think Lehigh's not going to win this one.

[RichH2]

O has played slow today and out of sync. Navy game speed tells the tale . Allen has been a true bright spot. Given O problems and turnovers our D has fought fairly well.

[CHIP72]

They just showed the stats at the stadium; Lehigh’s offense has actually been decent, with 304 yards. Unfortunately, Navy has gained 545 yards, including 417 yards rushing. Of course, Lehigh’s turnovers haven’t helped either.


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[Go Lehigh TU owl]

They just showed the stats at the stadium; Lehigh’s offense has actually been decent, with 304 yards. Unfortunately, Navy has gained 545 yards, including 417 yards rushing.


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Lehigh never had a chance in this game. The only question going in was just how bad they would lose. I don't see how these game are enjoyable for players that are true competitors. No one likes to be embarrassed on national tv.

[RichH2]

Mayes finished 19 of 31 158 yds. 3 INTs. Not terrible stats albeit not a good performance from Brad today.

[Lehigh'98]

Great win for the Owls! Didnt see that one coming!

Side note, is Durkin still suspended at Maryland?

[Lehigh'98]

Nice job Holy Cross. How did you pull off that comeback?

[Doc QB]

Mayes finished 19 of 31 158 yds. 3 INTs. Not terrible stats albeit not a good performance from Brad today.

Yes, that is terrible. I expect more. And so should we all.

[Southsider]

Mayes finished 19 of 31 158 yds. 3 INTs. Not terrible stats albeit not a good performance from Brad today.

R2, Mayes is just not the guy. Someone on the LU board noted how is sulks coming off the field when things don’t go well. He’s right. A Sr QB needs to inspire and lead. He does not. And the batted down balls??? D is doing fine. O needs to get off their asses. Oh, and did I forget new leader at the top!

[CHIP72]

Mayes finished 19 of 31 158 yds. 3 INTs. Not terrible stats albeit not a good performance from Brad today.

To be fair to Mayes, I think at least one of the INTs was tipped by his receiver on a reasonably accurate throw.

Incidentally, I sat directly behind Mayes’ cousin, and talked with her a decent bit.


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[CHIP72]

Side note, is Durkin still suspended at Maryland?

Yes. Matt Canada (who coincidentally was a candidate for the Temple head coaching job after Matt Rhule went to Baylor), is Maryland’s interim head coach.


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[RichH2]

R2, Mayes is just not the guy. Someone on the LU board noted how is sulks coming off the field when things don’t go well. He’s right. A Sr QB needs to inspire and lead. He does not. And the batted down balls??? D is doing fine. O needs to get off their asses. Oh, and did I forget new leader at the top!

You really have it wrong. Mayes is emotional and fiery. He is harder on himself than anyone else. Yes, he should have done better. He didnt. That was why he was frustrated and angry. He knows O should have been better.

[Lehigh'98]

You really have it wrong. Mayes is emotional and fiery. He is harder on himself than anyone else. Yes, he should have done better. He didnt. That was why he was frustrated and angry. He knows O should have been better.

The thing about Mayes is he might have the most raw talent as any qb in Lehigh history. His arm is incredible. What I fear is he may have needed a good coach to really have him reach his max potential and we have failed him there. Even last year with all the weapons, I always felt we could have been better in many games on O. Really seems we may have missed a golden opportunity these past few years with him.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You really have it wrong. Mayes is emotional and fiery. He is harder on himself than anyone else. Yes, he should have done better. He didnt. That was why he was frustrated and angry. He knows O should have been better.

Season starts next week. This week was a glorified scrimmage. Mayes should have played better against 'Nova but that's done with. A win over Penn is needed. This is a good barometer game. Win that and head into to the bye at 2-2 before a potential showdown with Princeton.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The thing about Mayes is he might have the most raw talent as any qb in Lehigh history. His arm is incredible. What I fear is he may have needed a good coach to really have him reach his max potential and we have failed him there. Even last year with all the weapons, I always felt we could have been better in many games on O. Really seems we may have missed a golden opportunity these past few years with him.

Folmar was a great catch but we all knew he was short lived. To get a PSAC Head Coach to come in as an OC was a big catch after Cech. Perhaps all these D3 assistants are taking their toll. Coen is and always will be the Mack Brown of the PL.

[ngineer]

The outcome was pretty much as expected...but with 5 turnovers, that really unbalances things. With the five starters out on the O, I don't care what anyone says, mentally it will have an effect on players who already know what they are up against. I think Mayes is very hard on himself and makes pressing errors. I agree that after Folmar left, we were left without a coach who is QB focused. Mayes has not had a QB 'guru' that our prior QBs did (Folmar and Cecchini--yes Cecchini was a WR when he played, but by that reason he was also focused on the QB and lengthy time as an OC in several programs. Hopefully we get some guys back next week and beat Penn which will be a spark for the balance of the season. A lot of young guys are getting baptised right now and it can pay off down the road.

[Bill]

yes Cecchini was a WR when he played, but by that reason he was also focused on the QB and lengthy time as an OC in several programs.

All - Yes, but the importance of Hank Small (and Peter Giunta, to a lesser extent) cannot be understated. I saw the cerebral nature of how Hank worked from both the player perspective and coaching perspective - and it was incredible. Hank would routinely stop practice to ask the DEFENSIVE scout teams why they reacted certain ways and what they saw! - all to benefit the O, the QB's, and how to best serve the players. Hank was not the best HC, but I would match his 80's & 90's offensive prowess with anyone in the nation at any level. Chick learned that system - and it has paid - and continues to pay dividends for him and the others who learned from Hank.

[Sader87]

Don't you Lehigh guys have your own board?

No offense, but the last 5 pages of this thread or so have been kvetching about Lehigh...that can't be done on your own board?

[Bill]

Don't you Lehigh guys have your own board?

You mean this isn't all about us? xsmiley_wix

[Sader87]

The Holy Cross board is the most active PL football board by far....but we only chime in here at AGS ovah league issues etc.....much of the Engineer chattah here is more apropos on your own board imo

[Southsider]

The Holy Cross board is the most active PL football board by far....but we only chime in here at AGS ovah league issues etc.....much of the Engineer chattah here is more apropos on your own board imo

Yea, but I like one stop shopping��
(https://www.hardx.com/en)

[Southsider]

The thing about Mayes is he might have the most raw talent as any qb in Lehigh history. His arm is incredible. What I fear is he may have needed a good coach to really have him reach his max potential and we have failed him there. Even last year with all the weapons, I always felt we could have been better in many games on O. Really seems we may have missed a golden opportunity these past few years with him.

You guys are both right. But that’s what has been digging at me for years with this program. We all see the shortcomings with the program (lack of good coaches, roster limits, etc) but the decline is allowed to continue with little action to fix. Lastly, LU should match up well with a program like Navy, the difference is they have the leadership qualities needed to succeed. Well; there’s always next week!

[Doc QB]

Don't you Lehigh guys have your own board?

No offense, but the last 5 pages of this thread or so have been kvetching about Lehigh...that can't be done on your own board?

Sure sader...I watched the leopard D blow a W to should be PL football membah Monmouth. Gave up 20 unanswered points I think. How’s that?

[Neighbor2]

Lehigh's been a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" football program for several years now. Hard not to be dismayed when it seems no effort is being made by the administration to reverse course. I feel bad for the players, frankly. This is a task for the paid employees to handle. Taking much too long.

[carney2]

On the faint chance that someone on this board has interest in anything not pertaining to Lehigh, I will give a brief summary of Lafayette's surprisingly close game with Monmouth. The Leopards could have won. Please note the use of the term could have, not should have. In truth, Monmouth has the better team, but kept shooting themselves in the foot with penalties at critical times. On the other side, the Leopards have a fast receiver or two. One of them, Nick Pearson, got behind the defense, I believe, three times. The QB overthrew him each time. O'Malley, the sophomore QB from California, cannot figure out that on throws like that you have to put some air under the ball and let the receiver run under it. This same receiver got loose on a shorter pass and had an open field ahead of him when he tripped over a yard line stripe - twice. Other than that Monmouth moved the ball pretty easily, while Lafayette's offensive movement came in fits and spurts. The Lafayette defense played well except in the last two minutes of the first half when they went into some sort of a cockamamie "prevent" befuddle that allowed Monmouth to drive the field and score a touchdown that turned things from 20-9 to 20-15 and probably was the deciding moment of the game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Don't you Lehigh guys have your own board?

No offense, but the last 5 pages of this thread or so have been kvetching about Lehigh...that can't be done on your own board?

Are you new here?

Of course, if you INSIST on going to a Lehigh-themed board... http://www.lehighsportsforum.com

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh's been a "woulda, coulda, shoulda" football program for several years now. Hard not to be dismayed when it seems no effort is being made by the administration to reverse course. I feel bad for the players, frankly. This is a task for the paid employees to handle. Taking much too long.

Yeah, I really feel bad for the players, who have two Patriot League championship rings, two FCS Playoff trips, and just came home from a game a Navy. Wow, feel really sorry for them.

I'm not saying that there can't be improvement, but geez, grow just a wee bit of perspective.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh is the Patriot League. Haven't you learned that Sader? When Lehigh is down, so is the rest of the league. 😒

[RichH2]

Lehigh is the Patriot League. Haven't you learned that Sader? When Lehigh is down, so is the rest of the league. 😒

See P4L gets it. :)

[DFW HOYA]

The rankings after Week 3:

1. Colgate (2-0): Red Raiders could be 6-1 heading into November.
2. Holy Cross (1-2): Crusaders picked up PL's only win this week.
3. Lehigh (1-2): Engineers lose to a solid Navy team. Games with two Ivies will be more telling.
4. Fordham (0-3): Better than their record indicates.
5. Bucknell (0-3): Probably not better than their record indicates.
6. Lafayette (0-3): The losing continues for at least two more weeks.
7. Georgetown (1-2): Had more turnovers than first downs vs. Dartmouth.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The rankings after Week 3:

1. Colgate (2-0): Red Raiders could be 6-1 heading into November.
2. Holy Cross (1-2): Crusaders picked up PL's only win this week.
3. Lehigh (1-2): Engineers lose to a solid Navy team. Games with two Ivies will be more telling.
4. Fordham (0-3): Better than their record indicates.
5. Bucknell (0-3): Probably not better than their record indicates.
6. Lafayette (0-3): The losing continues for at least two more weeks.
7. Georgetown (1-2): Had more turnovers than first downs vs. Dartmouth.

Very fair!

[van]

The rankings after Week 3:

1. Colgate (2-0): Red Raiders could be 6-1 heading into November.
2. Holy Cross (1-2): Crusaders picked up PL's only win this week.
3. Lehigh (1-2): Engineers lose to a solid Navy team. Games with two Ivies will be more telling.
4. Fordham (0-3): Better than their record indicates.
5. Bucknell (0-3): Probably not better than their record indicates.
6. Lafayette (0-3): The losing continues for at least two more weeks.
7. Georgetown (1-2): Had more turnovers than first downs vs. Dartmouth.

Buffs may actually be better than their record, can't dismiss how good their D is

[PAllen]

My eyewitness observations from the game in Annapolis:

"This is crazy." "This is dumb." "This is nuts." "Why are we even here?" - Statements from players I overheard during pregame warmups.

The Navy players are not that much bigger or more talented than Lehigh's

#6, #26, & #43 - The only 3 players on the field with any bounce in their step during pregame warmups, the rest of the team was walking through the motions, lots players hanging heads and shaking heads. These three also played their butts off throughout the game and made plays.

Pooch kick to the 30 on the opening kickoff sent the message to everyone in the stadium, including the team, that we were ready to roll over and die.

Instructions to the kick returner had him calling for the fair catch before the kickoff was even kicked (kickoff following 1st Navy TD). I'm fine with calling for a fair catch on most of the kicks that were made, but calling for it before the kick is lame.

Followed up fair catch with a run into the middle. Again, we're ready to roll over.

Tremendous individual effort by #26 for the answering score - That was the quietest I have ever heard that stadium in 3 games there. The Brigade was stunned. The Lehigh sideline had a little bounce, but many still stood around in a stupor.

15-20 seconds - How long it took to get the offensive plays in all game long. Watching the exchange between the assistant with the headset, the guy upstairs, and the players signalling the play was embarrassing.

Mayes was totally psyched out - The very few times he actually wanted to get into a rhythm, the coaches couldn't get a play into him (see above). His body language was horrific from the get go. He should have been subbed early.

My takeaways: Games at Navy are always fun and a much different atmosphere than elsewhere in college football. This year's Navy squad is not that good. Our pre-Coen playoff teams would have won this game. Also, we should be playing this type of opponent every year and need a staff that wants to take on that type of challenge. Finally, this staff has to go. Not only did they not have this team ready, they had them psyched out before the game even began. This isn't the Horseshoe, Death Valley, or The Big House, this was a half empty Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium. How you can't get a team excited about this type of game and still call yourself a D-I coach is beyond me. If Sterrett hasn't been on the phone with a certain little town in northern Indiana already, then he needs to go too.

I'll tune in for the Lafayette game, and maybe a few others, but until this staff is replaced, I'm done. My kids asked after the game why we can't go to a Lehigh game. I tried to find ways around telling them, that Goodman is incredibly boring compared to N-MC Mem. Stadium, that the team is pretty bad and that the entire program seems OK with being mediocre at best.

[PAllen]

To be fair to Mayes, I think at least one of the INTs was tipped by his receiver on a reasonably accurate throw.

Incidentally, I sat directly behind Mayes’ cousin, and talked with her a decent bit.


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Nope, that throw was behind the receiver. All of those INTs were on Mayes including the throw late, low, slow, and across the middle. Honestly, Navy should have had two more picks.

[Southsider]

My eyewitness observations from the game in Annapolis:

"This is crazy." "This is dumb." "This is nuts." "Why are we even here?" - Statements from players I overheard during pregame warmups.

The Navy players are not that much bigger or more talented than Lehigh's

#6, #26, & #43 - The only 3 players on the field with any bounce in their step during pregame warmups, the rest of the team was walking through the motions, lots players hanging heads and shaking heads. These three also played their butts off throughout the game and made plays.

Pooch kick to the 30 on the opening kickoff sent the message to everyone in the stadium, including the team, that we were ready to roll over and die.

Instructions to the kick returner had him calling for the fair catch before the kickoff was even kicked (kickoff following 1st Navy TD). I'm fine with calling for a fair catch on most of the kicks that were made, but calling for it before the kick is lame.

Followed up fair catch with a run into the middle. Again, we're ready to roll over.

Tremendous individual effort by #26 for the answering score - That was the quietest I have ever heard that stadium in 3 games there. The Brigade was stunned. The Lehigh sideline had a little bounce, but many still stood around in a stupor.

15-20 seconds - How long it took to get the offensive plays in all game long. Watching the exchange between the assistant with the headset, the guy upstairs, and the players signalling the play was embarrassing.

Mayes was totally psyched out - The very few times he actually wanted to get into a rhythm, the coaches couldn't get a play into him (see above). His body language was horrific from the get go. He should have been subbed early.

My takeaways: Games at Navy are always fun and a much different atmosphere than elsewhere in college football. This year's Navy squad is not that good. Our pre-Coen playoff teams would have won this game. Also, we should be playing this type of opponent every year and need a staff that wants to take on that type of challenge. Finally, this staff has to go. Not only did they not have this team ready, they had them psyched out before the game even began. This isn't the Horseshoe, Death Valley, or The Big House, this was a half empty Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium. How you can't get a team excited about this type of game and still call yourself a D-I coach is beyond me. If Sterrett hasn't been on the phone with a certain little town in northern Indiana already, then he needs to go too.

I'll tune in for the Lafayette game, and maybe a few others, but until this staff is replaced, I'm done. My kids asked after the game why we can't go to a Lehigh game. I tried to find ways around telling them, that Goodman is incredibly boring compared to N-MC Mem. Stadium, that the team is pretty bad and that the entire program seems OK with being mediocre at best.

PAllen is spot on! Coen was already beat in the the pre game radio interview. SAD.

[Lehigh'98]

PAllen is spot on! Coen was already beat in the the pre game radio interview. SAD.

*** General PL post before I ramble about Lehigh. First signs of life we have seen from the comatose Leopards in a long time. Perhaps something to build on. Also, can someone please explain how HC pulled that comeback off?

Ok, Southsider, this is what bothers me most about Lehigh last 2-3 years. There is absolutely no swagger or attitude. No believing they can beat better teams. We used to have ‘it’, now it’s long gone.

[ngineer]

You guys are both right. But that’s what has been digging at me for years with this program. We all see the shortcomings with the program (lack of good coaches, roster limits, etc) but the decline is allowed to continue with little action to fix. Lastly, LU should match up well with a program like Navy, the difference is they have the leadership qualities needed to succeed. Well; there’s always next week!

How can we match up in football with 60 versus 85 scholarships? They also have a fairly deep pocket for whatever they want. 20 years ago when the Academies were getting beat by us and other 'small schools' and getting the bejeezus kicked out of them by big one, the 'Brass' laid down that law...they were NOT going (then) 1-AA and made a major emphasis on that. We, nor any of the other PL schools will ever do that.

[RichH2]

[/B][/U]How can we match up in football with 60 versus 85 scholarships? They also have a fairly deep pocket for whatever they want. 20 years ago when the Academies were getting beat by us and other 'small schools' and getting the bejeezus kicked out of them by big one, the 'Brass' laid down that law...they were NOT going (then) 1-AA and made a major emphasis on that. We, nor any of the other PL schools will ever do that.

Impossible to match up with them. Academies bring in 50 to 60 kids every year now.. A number are sent to MAPS for another year prior to entering Academy. Navy having a down year. Not hardly.

[Go...gate]

Congratulations to Holy Cross on the kind of victory that turns a season around!

[Go...gate]

Lehigh never had a chance in this game. The only question going in was just how bad they would lose. I don't see how these game are enjoyable for players that are true competitors. No one likes to be embarrassed on national tv.

As the Engineer players how they felt.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

As the Engineer players how they felt.

If any of them "enjoyed" losing 51-21 while having the ball rammed down their throat for 60 minutes their scholarships should be revoked! By the sounds of things Mayes clearly had a ton of "fun" in his 3 INT performance. Competitors and winners don't enjoy getting their ass kicked, I'm sorry. Maybe the Colgate kids do. That's cool for them.

This game was never going to be a contest from the time it was scheduled, and it wasn't. Lehigh got a nice paycheck for an ass kicking. Holy Cross had theirs last week. Colgate gets to wait until game 11 for theirs!

[Go...gate]

If any of them "enjoyed" losing 51-21 while having the ball rammed down their throat for 60 minutes their scholarships should be revoked! By the sounds of things Mayes clearly had a ton of "fun" in his 3 INT performance. Competitors and winners don't enjoy getting their ass kicked, I'm sorry. Maybe the Colgate kids do. That's cool for them.

This game was never going to be a contest from the time it was scheduled, and it wasn't. Lehigh got a nice paycheck for an ass kicking. Holy Cross had theirs last week. Colgate gets to wait until game 11 for theirs!

I'm not at all interested in what YOU believe your players think. Ask them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not at all interested in what YOU believe your players think. Ask them.

Ask them if they enjoy getting their ass kicked? Honestly I have no idea how you believe in this fantasy that the outcomes of these FCS-FBS games don't matter. If any player told me they had a great time after losing badly I'd laugh in their face. No joke. I just can't get onboard with that type of thinking in any way shape or form.

[Go...gate]

Ask them if they enjoy getting their ass kicked? Honestly I have no idea how you believe in this fantasy that the outcomes of these FCS-FBS games don't matter. If any player told me they had a great time after losing badly I'd laugh in their face. No joke. I just can't get onboard with that type of thinking in any way shape or form.

Fine. But you don't speak for the many players who do.

[Gater]

Ask them if they enjoy getting their ass kicked? Honestly I have no idea how you believe in this fantasy that the outcomes of these FCS-FBS games don't matter. If any player told me they had a great time after losing badly I'd laugh in their face. No joke. I just can't get onboard with that type of thinking in any way shape or form.

Temple fan, you are wrong. You didn't play football at Lehigh's level so you don't know. I played for Colgate. We lost almost all of the games we played against 1-A teams back in the day. Those games are some of my best memories of playing. We lost to Rutgers, Syracuse, and Duke in front of up to 40,000 people. You can't understand what it is like to be on the field with that kind of noise and energy. You can't imagine what it is like to shut up 40,000 Army fans as you eek out a win. If you don't schedule those games you can't win those games. You also CANNOT be good at the FCS level. The best FCS teams play FBS teams. They create a grey area between the best FCS teams and the mid-level FBS teams when they are recruiting so you can get players who want to do more than play local FCS teams every week.

If you can get any poster who ever played for an FCS/I-AA team against FBS/I-A teams to say they wish they wouldn't have played FBS/I-A teams, I will say you are 1,000% right. Any poster. Create a poll. Take a vote. While you're at it, I hope you raise a stink every time your team (Temple) plays Penn State. Temple has won four of the 45 games they have played against Penn State. I hope you tell the players they have no business playing Penn State and that they should be embarrassed and that they should only play Akron.

The best teams in FCS play FBS games. If you want Lehigh to be good. If you want them to win a national championship. If you really cared about Lehigh football you would want them to play FBS teams. It's what the best FCS teams do. Simple as that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Temple fan, you are wrong. You didn't play football at Lehigh's level so you don't know. I played for Colgate. We lost almost all of the games we played against 1-A teams back in the day. Those games are some of my best memories of playing. We lost to Rutgers, Syracuse, and Duke in front of up to 40,000 people. You can't understand what it is like to be on the field with that kind of noise and energy. You can't imagine what it is like to shut up 40,000 Army fans as you eek out a win. If you don't schedule those games you can't win those games. You also CANNOT be good at the FCS level. The best FCS teams play FBS teams. They create a grey area between the best FCS teams and the mid-level FBS teams when they are recruiting so you can get players who want to do more than play local FCS teams every week.

If you can get any poster who ever played for an FCS/I-AA team against FBS/I-A teams to say they wish they wouldn't have played FBS/I-A teams, I will say you are 1,000% right. Any poster. Create a poll. Take a vote. While you're at it, I hope you raise a stink every time your team (Temple) plays Penn State. Temple has won four of the 45 games they have played against Penn State. I hope you tell the players they have no business playing Penn State and that they should be embarrassed and that they should only play Akron.

The best teams in FCS play FBS games. If you want Lehigh to be good. If you want them to win a national championship. If you really cared about Lehigh football you would want them to play FBS teams. It's what the best FCS teams do. Simple as that.

Thanks for adding reputation to this user

[Go...gate]

Go Lehigh TU Owl, you want to see a true mismatch that should not be played?

Check this one out - between two Power 5 teams, NEITHER of which belong in FBS.

Makes Lehigh - Navy look highly competitive.

In fact, I bet that Lehigh could give Rutgers a hell of a game right now.

And the rout was far worse than the score indicated.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=401012822

[Go...gate]

Temple fan, you are wrong. You didn't play football at Lehigh's level so you don't know. I played for Colgate. We lost almost all of the games we played against 1-A teams back in the day. Those games are some of my best memories of playing. We lost to Rutgers, Syracuse, and Duke in front of up to 40,000 people. You can't understand what it is like to be on the field with that kind of noise and energy. You can't imagine what it is like to shut up 40,000 Army fans as you eek out a win. If you don't schedule those games you can't win those games. You also CANNOT be good at the FCS level. The best FCS teams play FBS teams. They create a grey area between the best FCS teams and the mid-level FBS teams when they are recruiting so you can get players who want to do more than play local FCS teams every week.

If you can get any poster who ever played for an FCS/I-AA team against FBS/I-A teams to say they wish they wouldn't have played FBS/I-A teams, I will say you are 1,000% right. Any poster. Create a poll. Take a vote. While you're at it, I hope you raise a stink every time your team (Temple) plays Penn State. Temple has won four of the 45 games they have played against Penn State. I hope you tell the players they have no business playing Penn State and that they should be embarrassed and that they should only play Akron.

The best teams in FCS play FBS games. If you want Lehigh to be good. If you want them to win a national championship. If you really cared about Lehigh football you would want them to play FBS teams. It's what the best FCS teams do. Simple as that.

Thank you, Gater.

[Neighbor2]

Some of you are being too harsh on Go Lehigh TU owl. I read his comment as claiming match-ups like this must be very frustrating for players on the FCS level. Particularly players from Patriot League schools. The same Patriot League with structural shortcomings all of you regularly acknowledge. Rules, regulations, and in some cases, administrative indifference to the whole thing.

The players can't fix this situation. Recruits, however, can avoid it.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Temple fan, you are wrong. You didn't play football at Lehigh's level so you don't know. I played for Colgate. We lost almost all of the games we played against 1-A teams back in the day. Those games are some of my best memories of playing. We lost to Rutgers, Syracuse, and Duke in front of up to 40,000 people. You can't understand what it is like to be on the field with that kind of noise and energy. You can't imagine what it is like to shut up 40,000 Army fans as you eek out a win. If you don't schedule those games you can't win those games. You also CANNOT be good at the FCS level. The best FCS teams play FBS teams. They create a grey area between the best FCS teams and the mid-level FBS teams when they are recruiting so you can get players who want to do more than play local FCS teams every week.

If you can get any poster who ever played for an FCS/I-AA team against FBS/I-A teams to say they wish they wouldn't have played FBS/I-A teams, I will say you are 1,000% right. Any poster. Create a poll. Take a vote. While you're at it, I hope you raise a stink every time your team (Temple) plays Penn State. Temple has won four of the 45 games they have played against Penn State. I hope you tell the players they have no business playing Penn State and that they should be embarrassed and that they should only play Akron.

The best teams in FCS play FBS games. If you want Lehigh to be good. If you want them to win a national championship. If you really cared about Lehigh football you would want them to play FBS teams. It's what the best FCS teams do. Simple as that.

I get that playing in the atmosphere and potentially being on a larger broadcast is a great experience. Especially when you're a member of a team at a lesser school who's lucky to in front of 3,000 people in their own stadium. As a player for a lesser program you got to enjoy a day that is nothing like you are accustomed to. It still doesn't change the fact you were brought in to be the sacrificial lamb and have no chance to win. If the players really don't care about the outcome then fine. To me that's weird.

The best teams in FCS also redshirt, have larger rosters, no AI and some even offer COA among other things. The FBS games are just a small part of what makes them successful. Hell, this is the second year in a row NDSU is not playing FBS games. Until PL starts evening the playing field with their "peers" in FCS I'll continue to think these FBS games against better opponents are a joke.

[PAllen]

I get that playing in the atmosphere and potentially being on a larger broadcast is a great experience. Especially when you're a member of for a lesser school who's lucky to in front of 3,000 people in their own stadium. As a player for a lesser program you got to enjoy a day that is nothing like you are accustomed to. It still doesn't change the fact you were brought in to be the sacrificial lamb and have no chance to win. If the players really don't care about the outcome then fine. To me that's weird.

The best teams in FCS also redshirt, have larger rosters, no AI and some even offer COA among other things. The FBS games are just a small part of what makes them successful. Hell, this is the second year in a row NDSU is not playing FBS games. Until PL starts evening the playing field with their "peers" in FCS I'll continue to think these FBS games against better opponents are a joke.

NDSU is not playing FBS schools because the FBS schools don't want to schedule the loss. We've won and been competitive in these types of games when we had much less institutional support than we do today. In none of those cases did the team head into the game with a lambs to the slaughter mentality.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

NDSU is not playing FBS schools because the FBS schools don't want to schedule the loss. We've won and been competitive in these types of games when we had much less institutional support than we do today. In none of those cases did the team head into the game with a lambs to the slaughter mentality.

When was the last time Lehigh played an 8 win type FBS team? They beat a dreadful Buffalo team in 2002 and lost by 20 or so to a FBS starter in UConn (who did win 9 games) more recently.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I get that playing in the atmosphere and potentially being on a larger broadcast is a great experience. Especially when you're a member of a team at a lesser school who's lucky to in front of 3,000 people in their own stadium. As a player for a lesser program you got to enjoy a day that is nothing like you are accustomed to. It still doesn't change the fact you were brought in to be the sacrificial lamb and have no chance to win. If the players really don't care about the outcome then fine. To me that's weird.

The best teams in FCS also redshirt, have larger rosters, no AI and some even offer COA among other things. The FBS games are just a small part of what makes them successful. Hell, this is the second year in a row NDSU is not playing FBS games. Until PL starts evening the playing field with their "peers" in FCS I'll continue to think these FBS games against better opponents are a joke.

Dude, every FCS team that is brought in is considered a "sacrificial lamb" by the team scheduling them. Think Arkansas paid to bring in North Texas because they thought they would lose?

In this area of FCS vs. FBS games, Lehigh has been way behind the curve even in their own league. It's no novelty for Colgate or Fordham to play an FBS school, they've scheduled multiple ones over the last 3-5 years. You have to start somewhere, or else you'll never play anybody. That's what this game was - a test and will be a memory to every underclassman on this team as to what it takes to compete in FBS and also the higher levels of FCS.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Dude, every FCS team that is brought in is considered a "sacrificial lamb" by the team scheduling them. Think Arkansas paid to bring in North Texas because they thought they would lose?

In this area of FCS vs. FBS games, Lehigh has been way behind the curve even in their own league. It's no novelty for Colgate or Fordham to play an FBS school, they've scheduled multiple ones over the last 3-5 years. You have to start somewhere, or else you'll never play anybody. That's what this game was - a test and will be a memory to every underclassman on this team as to what it takes to compete in FBS and also the higher levels of FCS.

North Texas is a FBS Sun Belt team. Arkansas is arguably the worst team in the SEC so any wins are hard to come by at this point. Nebraska loss to Troy this past weekend cost them 1.5 million iirc.

I get the experience and all that. I still don't understand how and why the outcome doesn't matter. Navy beat Colgate (PL Champ) 48-10 in '15, Fordham 52-16 (8 win Ram team) in '16 and now Lehigh 51-21. The PL teams (even good ones) clearly aren't competitive with the Middies right now.

I think it's awesome Lafayette plays Army the week before Lehigh. The Black Knights are going to beat the hell out of them. The 'Pards should enter Goodman pretty beat and perhaps down a few players due to injury.

[RichH2]

North Texas is a FBS Sun Belt team. Arkansas is arguably the worst team in the SEC so any wins are hard to come by at this point. Nebraska loss to Troy this past weekend cost them 1.5 million iirc.

I get the experience and all that. I still don't understand how and why the outcome doesn't matter. Navy beat Colgate (PL Champ) 48-10 in '15, Fordham 52-16 (8 win Ram team) in '16 and now Lehigh 51-21. The PL teams (even good ones) clearly aren't competitive with the Middies right now.
Dont find that at all shocking, Sure results matter but how much can they in a mismatch game? Navy is not a bottom feeder FBS program. They may not be a top 20 FBS team but they are a very good team running a rarely seen triple option O. Could Lehigh have played better? Yup. Andy may have emphasized the FBS experience to the players implying that they couldnt succeed but should still learn from the experience. Certainly the way he played it in the media.An error in my opinion. The differences between Lehigh and Navy are game speed and Perry.
Would a healthy OL have made a difference? Absolutely. Still an L but a more competitive game.
The key factor now is did the game help to make us a better team. Penn will tell the tale.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

North Texas is a FBS Sun Belt team. Arkansas is arguably the worst team in the SEC so any wins are hard to come by at this point. Nebraska loss to Troy this past weekend cost them 1.5 million iirc.

I get the experience and all that. I still don't understand how and why the outcome doesn't matter. Navy beat Colgate (PL Champ) 48-10 in '15, Fordham 52-16 (8 win Ram team) in '16 and now Lehigh 51-21. The PL teams (even good ones) clearly aren't competitive with the Middies right now.

I think it's awesome Lafayette plays Army the week before Lehigh. The Black Knights are going to beat the hell out of them. The 'Pards should enter Goodman pretty beat and perhaps down a few players due to injury.

I'm not exactly sure why Lafayette fans aren't more excited to play Army and emphasizing the whole experience of it. Maybe it's because it's not the first time they've played recently and maybe because they think Lafayette has other more pressing problems, but in theory it should work the same for them. FBS games show how far a program needs to go to get to that level.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not exactly sure why Lafayette fans aren't more excited to play Army and emphasizing the whole experience of it. Maybe it's because it's not the first time they've played recently and maybe because they think Lafayette has other more pressing problems, but in theory it should work the same for them. FBS games show how far a program needs to go to get to that level.

Get to what level? Why does a FCS team need to get a FBS level? The PL is among the worst conferences in FCS!! How about worrying about winning more games against your peers? The league has gone 2-10 the last two weeks in the OOC!!

Army did beat Lafayette 62-7 in 2015 and blew out Fordham 64-6 last year. West Point is a great place for a game but watching your team get embarrassed on the field is never fun.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Get to what level? Why does a FCS team need to get a FBS level? The PL is among the worst conferences in FCS!! How about worrying about winning more games against your peers? The league has gone 2-10 the last two weeks in the OOC!!

Army did beat Lafayette 62-7 in 2015 and blew out Fordham 64-6 last year. West Point is a great place for a game but watching your team get embarrassed on the field is never fun.

They don't necessarily need to get to the FBS "level" however they should want to be tested to be the best they can be as a unit. That can be as an FCS program under FCS rules.

You complain about the PL being one of the worst conferences in FCS, then want to cry and go home when the PL tests their programs against tough programs.

I remember talking to Chris Lum at one of those Patriot League media days. We talked briefly about the FCS playoff game at Delaware. He said to me that their big takeaway from that game was, beyond a few mistakes (for which he blamed himself) that the distance between Delaware and Lehigh was not all that far off. That season, Lehigh made the playoffs, traveled to Towson as an underdog, and upset the Tigers 40-38. Point being, these games that challenge these teams are a really big positive.

I understand there is a balance that needs to be struck between experiences like that and injuries. I remember Chad Schwenk's career ended after getting injured at UConn, and I believe that injury is a major reason why Lehigh hasn't scheduled a game like that since. Personally I think it is a good thing to have a few games like this a season. I think playing 3 of them a year is crazy, but one? That's a great thing.

[van]

Get to what level? Why does a FCS team need to get a FBS level? The PL is among the worst conferences in FCS!! How about worrying about winning more games against your peers? The league has gone 2-10 the last two weeks in the OOC!!

Army did beat Lafayette 62-7 in 2015 and blew out Fordham 64-6 last year. West Point is a great place for a game but watching your team get embarrassed on the field is never fun.

I watched this weekend and although the score was very lopsided, as a Lehigh alum I was far from embarrassed, I just wish we would have not had all the turnovers, could have been much closer score without the turnovers, I was more upset at getting blown out of last 2 playoff games than being bested by Navy

[RichH2]

I watched this weekend and although the score was very lopsided, as a Lehigh alum I was far from embarrassed, I just wish we would have not had all the turnovers, could have been much closer score without the turnovers, I was more upset at getting blown out of last 2 playoff games than being bested by Navy
+1

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I watched this weekend and although the score was very lopsided, as a Lehigh alum I was far from embarrassed, I just wish we would have not had all the turnovers, could have been much closer score without the turnovers, I was more upset at getting blown out of last 2 playoff games than being bested by Navy

Absolutely! In all honesty the Navy game could have been worse! I was fearful of a 77-17 type final before the season started given how bad the defense has been in recent years. 51-21 gets swepted under the rug pretty quickly. Hell, I drove 5 hours to Harrisonburg in 2015 and 7 hours to New Hampshire in 2016 to watch Lehigh lose by wider margins then they did on Saturday. The issue I have with the FBS games is they're never in doubt. At least Lehigh was the favorite in the UNH debacle and should have fared better against JMU (who Colgate beat in the Playoffs without Lee).

[LUHawker]

I watched this weekend and although the score was very lopsided, as a Lehigh alum I was far from embarrassed, I just wish we would have not had all the turnovers, could have been much closer score without the turnovers, I was more upset at getting blown out of last 2 playoff games than being bested by Navy

I was at the game and it was much worse than 51-21. Yes, the turnovers hurt, but Navy should have - literally should have - scored 3 more TDs if they had a guy that could make a pass and Mayes also threw a couple of balls that the DBs were so shocked came right at them, were dropped. Let's not kid ourselves it was a tremendous shellacking.

I was at the game and it was embarrassing.

[carney2]

I'm not exactly sure why Lafayette fans aren't more excited to play Army and emphasizing the whole experience of it. Maybe it's because it's not the first time they've played recently and maybe because they think Lafayette has other more pressing problems, but in theory it should work the same for them. FBS games show how far a program needs to go to get to that level.

Generally, it's pointless to play any of these games. Lehigh proved that on Saturday in a "Why was this game scheduled?" "Did they even show up?" blowout at Navy. In Lafayette's case your "more pressing problems" pretty much hit this nail on the head. A team/program that is not even competitive with Sacred Heart should not be involved in these godawful mismatches.

[PAllen]

Dude, every FCS team that is brought in is considered a "sacrificial lamb" by the team scheduling them. Think Arkansas paid to bring in North Texas because they thought they would lose?

In this area of FCS vs. FBS games, Lehigh has been way behind the curve even in their own league. It's no novelty for Colgate or Fordham to play an FBS school, they've scheduled multiple ones over the last 3-5 years. You have to start somewhere, or else you'll never play anybody. That's what this game was - a test and will be a memory to every underclassman on this team as to what it takes to compete in FBS and also the higher levels of FCS.

I guarantee Allen will remember his run down the sideline in front of a hushed Brigade of Midshipmen for the rest of his life. That single play might just be the highlight of his football career.

[PAllen]

I was at the game and it was much worse than 51-21. Yes, the turnovers hurt, but Navy should have - literally should have - scored 3 more TDs if they had a guy that could make a pass and Mayes also threw a couple of balls that the DBs were so shocked came right at them, were dropped. Let's not kid ourselves it was a tremendous shellacking.

I was at the game and it was embarrassing.

It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing because the team came to lose. What I saw (other than Perry running) was a much smaller talent gap than I expected. Lehigh needs to play more of these until it stops being an embarrassment and we can get back to hanging with low to mid tier FBS schools. That's how you get better, and that's how you don't get shocked by the FCS "Big Time" come playoff time.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing because the team came to lose. What I saw (other than Perry running) was a much smaller talent gap than I expected. Lehigh needs to play more of these until it stops being an embarrassment and we can get back to hanging with low to mid tier FBS schools. That's how you get better, and that's how you don't get shocked by the FCS "Big Time" come playoff time.

I simply don't think playing FBS games is going to significantly improve Lehigh's program or anyone in the PL for that matter. IMO, the best way to improve the programs within the league is by allowing redshirting, reworking the AI and/or expanding the rosters. Then there's the COA issue. The PL programs are battling an uphill battle trying to be competitive within own subdivision. I just think it's delusional to try be competitive with decent FBS games with so many self imposed league restrictions. The results clearly indicate, so far, they can't compete! Hell, Bucknell will play Temple next year without a single 5th year player and very little overall institutional support.

[LUHawker]

It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing because the team came to lose. What I saw (other than Perry running) was a much smaller talent gap than I expected. Lehigh needs to play more of these until it stops being an embarrassment and we can get back to hanging with low to mid tier FBS schools. That's how you get better, and that's how you don't get shocked by the FCS "Big Time" come playoff time.

I agree with all this. I'll also add that in terms of physical size, other than a couple of positions, Lehigh was right there. Navy certainly had more speed, but I don't think we were outmatched in terms of size.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I simply don't think playing FBS games is going to significantly improve Lehigh's program or anyone in the PL for that matter. IMO, the best way to improve the programs within the league is by allowing redshirting, reworking the AI and/or expanding the rosters. Then there's the COA issue. The PL programs are battling an uphill battle trying to be competitive within own subdivision. I just think it's delusional to try be competitive with decent FBS games with so many self imposed league restrictions. The results clearly indicate, so far, they can't compete! Hell, Bucknell will play Temple next year without a single 5th year player and very little overall institutional support.

You and PAllen are completely talking past each other. A program that wants to get better doesn't have to choose between scheduling challenging games and analyzing what the AI, roster sizes, or simple talent assessment, etc. do for Lehigh's competitiveness or overall Patriot League competitiveness. They are more than capable of doing both at once.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

In 2016 JMU was "embarrassed" by North Carolina 56-28. Must have been a pretty good experience, though, because they won 26 straight games after that, a pair of CAA titles, made the FCS National Championship Game twice, winning once.

I don't know what will happen with Lehigh the rest of the season but there are a whole lot of people here that need to simply get a grip. Stop freaking tossing the words "embarrassed" around. You obviously don't know what it means.

[RichH2]

I agree with all this. I'll also add that in terms of physical size, other than a couple of positions, Lehigh was right there. Navy certainly had more speed, but I don't think we were outmatched in terms of size.

Agree on talent levels and size overall. Game speed a killer. Realistically this was an L going in with no Brags,Christiano or a whole OL. If as PAllen noted players came in with a down attitude, the fault lies with Andy. I dont know how he treated this game with the team but if at all similar to his public commentsI am not surprised. An error in judgment. Not saying he should pump the team with unrealistic expectations. Mistake tho to take winning completely off the table.

[Sader87]

I contend that HC playing BC last week prepared them for their win ovah Yale this past Saturday.

It was a tremendous atmosphere at BC....probably the best overall atmosphere for a HC game since the 1980s.

[Lehigh'98]

I contend that HC playing BC last week prepared them for their win ovah Yale this past Saturday.

It was a tremendous atmosphere at BC....probably the best overall atmosphere for a HC game since the 1980s.

Your QB and WRs had some really impressive TD connections against Yale.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I agree with all this. I'll also add that in terms of physical size, other than a couple of positions, Lehigh was right there. Navy certainly had more speed, but I don't think we were outmatched in terms of size.

Navy is never going to win the eye test when it comes to their players. They're successful because Niumatalolo has instilled incredible discipline to go along with their system. It's why they can have success against power programs. With that said, the academies have been able to admit more bigger kids in recent years. Overall they are still undersized.

Monken has really righted the ship at Army with the same formula. They took down Hawaii this past weekend. The Black Knight program that Fordham beat is long gone.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I contend that HC playing BC last week prepared them for their win ovah Yale this past Saturday.

It was a tremendous atmosphere at BC....probably the best overall atmosphere for a HC game since the 1980s.

I'll contend the week 1 game at Colgate helped more. The Crusaders fell behind early and came up just short in their comeback attempt. In the loss Chesney and his staff showed their ability to adjust at halftime against a quality team.

HC has the best coach in the league and it's not close imo.

[crusader11]

HC has the best coach in the league and it's not close imo.

Would not surprise me if Chesney is coaching at an AAC / MAC level school in the next five years. And, if that's the case, it means he's turned HC around and won a PLC or two. In fact, think I saw a tweet over the weekend where a UMass fan was already clamoring for Chesney to be their next coach.

If you look at Chesney's career, he's done nothing but win at places not exactly known for winning -- Salve Regina and Assumption.

[LehighU11]

Like someone else pointed out, I agree that the talent gap was much smaller than expected. Perry is a game changer, and he made pre-season AAC West favorite Memphis look foolish in Week 2. Lehigh's defense showed up ready to play and had one of their best performances since 2014 on Saturday. Navy's 55 points were more attributable to Lehigh's offensive blunders and the defense not getting a rest. The triple option is hard enough to contain, and having your offense hand over the ball on the first (twice) or second play (once) of a drive will leave any team spent. That said, Allen was a true bright spot on O. LU's ground game is in good hands for years to come.

On another note, so many PL fans bemoan the waning interest in our programs and ponder how we can improve attendance. I was pleasantly surprised by how well Lehigh fans traveled to Annapolis for the game. There were busloads from the Lehigh Valley, organized tailgates outside the stadium, and plenty of Lehigh fans tailgating in the Truman Park and Ride down the road. My section at the 50 yard line was split between LU and Navy fans. The visiting side concourse was covered with brown and white. I have to imagine that a large number who planned to attend were kept away by Florence. For programs that have seen large drops in attendance over the past decade, games against relevant FBS schools like Army, Navy, Syracuse, BC, and UConn do make sense. Scheduling Drake, CCSU, Monmouth, Bryant, and Liberty hasn't moved the needle. Though perhaps it's time to put Drake back on the schedule--maybe enough students could be fooled into attending a Patriot League football game under the guise of a concert.

Last week, Holy Cross fans shared their moment of pride and reminder of the glory years (before they coulda, woulda, shoulda been in the Big East) in renewing their rivalry with BC. HC probably struggled more than LU, albeit against a tougher opponent. This week, they put a quick end to talks of Yale going 10-0. It seems that the previous week's challenge, as well a new and energized coach, have the Crusaders back on track.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh-Navy just made SVP's "bad beats" due to LU's back door cover. Pretty hilarious take by him and Stanford Steve....

[Go...gate]

Some of you are being too harsh on Go Lehigh TU owl. I read his comment as claiming match-ups like this must be very frustrating for players on the FCS level. Particularly players from Patriot League schools. The same Patriot League with structural shortcomings all of you regularly acknowledge. Rules, regulations, and in some cases, administrative indifference to the whole thing.

The players can't fix this situation. Recruits, however, can avoid it.

Many recruits WANT those matchups.

[Go...gate]

You and PAllen are completely talking past each other. A program that wants to get better doesn't have to choose between scheduling challenging games and analyzing what the AI, roster sizes, or simple talent assessment, etc. do for Lehigh's competitiveness or overall Patriot League competitiveness. They are more than capable of doing both at once.

Exactly.

[Go...gate]

They don't necessarily need to get to the FBS "level" however they should want to be tested to be the best they can be as a unit. That can be as an FCS program under FCS rules.

You complain about the PL being one of the worst conferences in FCS, then want to cry and go home when the PL tests their programs against tough programs.

I remember talking to Chris Lum at one of those Patriot League media days. We talked briefly about the FCS playoff game at Delaware. He said to me that their big takeaway from that game was, beyond a few mistakes (for which he blamed himself) that the distance between Delaware and Lehigh was not all that far off. That season, Lehigh made the playoffs, traveled to Towson as an underdog, and upset the Tigers 40-38. Point being, these games that challenge these teams are a really big positive.

I understand there is a balance that needs to be struck between experiences like that and injuries. I remember Chad Schwenk's career ended after getting injured at UConn, and I believe that injury is a major reason why Lehigh hasn't scheduled a game like that since. Personally I think it is a good thing to have a few games like this a season. I think playing 3 of them a year is crazy, but one? That's a great thing.

Three of those games is too much. One or two is sufficient.

[Go...gate]

It was embarrassing. It was embarrassing because the team came to lose. What I saw (other than Perry running) was a much smaller talent gap than I expected. Lehigh needs to play more of these until it stops being an embarrassment and we can get back to hanging with low to mid tier FBS schools. That's how you get better, and that's how you don't get shocked by the FCS "Big Time" come playoff time.

Just like in any other field of endeavor.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Dream on.

Then who's the best coach in the league? Chesney's track record is ridiculous! The guy has never had a losing record in 8 years of coaching! His last 3 years at Assumption he won 11, 9 and 11 games. He tacked on 3 playoff wins for good measure.

There's no one in the league with a resume like that. Coen (.592 winning %) is ok but far from spectacular. Hunt (.571 winning %) seems to be similar. Susan should, and I think will be fired. Garrett is 3-11 so far and Conlin is 0-3 with no previous HC experience. Sgarlatta has no chance.

[Go...gate]

I contend that HC playing BC last week prepared them for their win ovah Yale this past Saturday.

It was a tremendous atmosphere at BC....probably the best overall atmosphere for a HC game since the 1980s.

Glad to hear this.

[Go...gate]

Then who's the best coach in the league? Chesney's track record is ridiculous! The guy has never had a losing record in 8 years of coaching! His last 3 years at Assumption he won 11, 9 and 11 games. He tacked on 3 playoff wins for good measure.

There's no one in the league with a resume like that. Coen (.592 winning %) is ok but far from spectacular. Hunt (.571 winning %) seems to be similar. Susan should, and I think will be fired. Garrett is 3-11 so far and Conlin is 0-3 with no previous HC experience. Sgarlatta has no chance.

Chesney is coaching at Division I now. Assumption and Salve Regina are fine, but this is a much faster and tougher track.

Coen and Hunt are the best coaches in the league and I believe Garrett has a lot of potential upside if Lafayette will stop trying to drown in two inches of water.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Just like in any other field of endeavor.

Do you also limit yourself relative to your competition with self imposed restrictions like the PL does to make things harder? I think if you tried to survive in the real world as the Patriot League, NEC and PFL do as they are presently constructed relative to the top of FCS you would be mightily disappointed at the end of the day.

I know some of you love these games and want to aspire to FCS greatness via the scheduling of them. Yet not one of you have come up with an educated answer on how the PL can overcome its self imposed restrictions to be competitive with the best of FCS, let alone solid FBS teams. There's no precedent for it happening. At least not that I'm aware of.

What type of bid is Colgate putting together to host a playoff game?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Chesney is coaching at Division I now. Assumption and Salve Regina are fine, but this is a much faster and tougher track.

Coen and Hunt are the best coaches in the league and I believe Garrett has a lot of potential upside if Lafayette will stop trying to drown in two inches of water.

Good coaches are good coaches. Plenty of elite coaches currently in FCS and FBS have come out of the D2 ranks. Curt Cignetti at Elon was a home run out of IUP last year.

[Go...gate]

Do you also limit yourself relative to your competition with self imposed restrictions like the PL does to make things harder? I think if you tried to survive in the real world as the Patriot League, NEC and PFL do as they are presently constructed relative to the top of FCS you would be mightily disappointed at the end of the day.

I know some of you love these games and want to aspire to FCS greatness via the scheduling of them. Yet not one of you have come up with an educated answer on how the PL can overcome it's self imposed restrictions to be competitive with the best of FCS, let alone solid FBS teams. There's no precedent for it happening. At least not that I'm aware of.

What type of bid is Colgate putting together to host a playoff game?

You and I have both agreed that there are things the league should do to enhance competition. I'm not big on red shirting, but perhaps a reasonable limit would work. To me, the most absurd thing is the roster limits.

Two games in, who knows that Colgate will win? Lehigh is the defending champion and I still think Fordham will get it together. That said, I strongly believe that the mistakes made by David Roach in connection with the 2012 Wagner game will not recur. That was one of the things that (rightly) cost him his job.

[Go...gate]

Good coaches are good coaches. Plenty of elite coaches currently in FCS and FBS have come out of the D2 ranks. Curt Cignetti at Elon was a home run out of IUP last year.

Agreed. But even Division I FCS is a big step up from D-II. Chesney also has never had the academic limitations he has now.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Agreed. But even Division I FCS is a big step up from D-II. Chesney also has never had the academic limitations he has now.

Mike Houston went from a D2 private liberal arts school, Lenoir Rhyne to a state supported military school in the The Citadel to James Madison and won at a high level (3 national title game appearances, 1 national title) at all of them. Outside of adding a HBCU gig to his resume, Houston can't get a broader spectrum of experience than that. The best coaches adapt. Chesney is that good.

[Go...gate]

Mike Houston went from a D2 private liberal arts school, Lenoir Rhyne to a state supported military school in the The Citadel to James Madison and won at a high level (3 national title game appearances, 1 national title) at all of them. Outside of coaching a HBCU you don't get much more diverse than that. The best coaches adapt. Chesney is that good.

Turning a struggling program around in a year or two is not easy. Bob Surace had been in the NFL and it still took two horrendous seasons before he began to right the ship at Princeton.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Turning a struggling program around in a year or two is not easy. Bob Surace had been in the NFL and it still took two horrendous seasons before he began to right the ship at Princeton.

Joe Moorhead took over a team that went 1-10 and went 6-5 in his first year. Dick Biddle took over an 0-11 Colgate squad and went 6-5 in his first year. The special ones have "IT". I'm not calling for HC to go 9-2 but a significant improvement will be noticed. Taking over a struggling PL team is not quite the same as taking over a dumpster fire in the SEC. There's wins to be had with basic competence.

The biggest issue at HC has been the administration. Crusader sports have been terrible across the board.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Some of you are being too harsh on Go Lehigh TU owl. I read his comment as claiming match-ups like this must be very frustrating for players on the FCS level. Particularly players from Patriot League schools. The same Patriot League with structural shortcomings all of you regularly acknowledge. Rules, regulations, and in some cases, administrative indifference to the whole thing.

The players can't fix this situation. Recruits, however, can avoid it.

Exactly! I get the experience aspect from a players standpoint. No one can argue a game at West Point, Annapolis or the Carrier Dome is more exciting than a game at Goodman Stadium, Andy Kerr or even the Tub at this point. For the players it has to be a helluva lot cooler. As a fan it certainly is! Hell, the college football junkie in me took me to Ann Arbor Michigan this past weekend just so I could check The Big House off my bucket list. My whole point is given the self imposed restrictions these kids have no real chance to be competitive with decent FBS teams. I don't care what anyone on here says, to a man no one likes losing 64-6, 62-7, 51-21 and 62-14.

Has a PL team ever beaten a FBS opponent with a winning record?

I've never been opposed to scheduling FBS games as whole. I've been extremely consistent on my stance. I liked HC-UConn and Colgate-Buffalo last year, Fordham-Charlotte this season and Fordham-Ohio in the near future. I said before the season started in another thread that I would have loved for Lehigh to play Rutgers this year instead of Navy! My point all along has been schedule within your means as PL programs. The league is struggling to compete with much of FCS right now. The OOC record the last 2-3 years clearly indicates that. To me the priority has be trying to improve the league relative to the rest of FCS. What can be done to overcome hurdles? Is it even feasible as a new decade dawns to be competitive with the top of FCS?

[Go...gate]

Exactly! I get the experience aspect from a players standpoint. No one can argue a game at West Point, Annapolis or the Carrier Dome is more exciting than a game at Goodman Stadium, Andy Kerr or even the Tub at this point. For the players it has to be a helluva lot cooler. As a fan it certainly is! Hell, the college football junkie in me took me to Ann Arbor Michigan this past weekend just so I could check The Big House off my bucket list. My whole point is given the self imposed restrictions these kids have no real chance to be competitive with decent FBS teams. I don't care what anyone on here says, to a man no one likes losing 64-6, 62-7, 51-21 and 62-14.

Has a PL team ever beaten a FBS opponent with a winning record?

I've never been opposed to scheduling FBS games as whole. I've been extremely consistent on my stance. I liked HC-UConn and Colgate-Buffalo last year, Fordham-Charlotte this season and Fordham-Ohio in the near future. I said before the season started in another thread that I would have loved for Lehigh to play Rutgers this year instead of Navy! My point all along has been schedule within your means as PL programs. The league is struggling to compete with much of FCS right now. The OOC record the last 2-3 years clearly indicates that. To me the priority has be trying to improve the league relative to the rest of FCS. What can be done to overcome hurdles? Is it even feasible as a new decade dawns to be competitive with the top of FCS?

See my post above. Don't know how much you heard about Rutgers - Kansas, but it made Lehigh - Navy look like the Rose Bowl. The Engineers, Crusaders or Red Raiders could have given RU a competitive game last Saturday.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

See my post above. Don't know how much you heard about Rutgers - Kansas, but it made Lehigh - Navy look like the Rose Bowl. The Engineers, Crusaders or Red Raiders could have given RU a competitive game last Saturday.

his week Rutgers is losing 35-6 to Buffalo at the half! They're as bad as they ever were in the 90's! That athletic department is a complete mess!!

[Go...gate]

his week Rutgers is losing 35-6 to Buffalo at the half! They're as bad as they ever were in the 90's! That athletic department is a complete mess!!

I have been watching RU athletics over six or seven decades, going back to when, for all intents and purposes, they WERE in the Patriot/Ivy League. My father earned one of his graduate degrees from RU and he went even further back than I do.

Believe me when I tell you it could not get much worse.