Sounds like Division to Division transfers won't be sitting out anymore

[IBleedYellow]

https://twitter.com/ESPN_Schick/status/953671983866277888



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[IBleedYellow]

Will there be less FBS to FCS transfers now? I'd venture to say yes.

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[Professor Chaos]

Obviously this is bad for the FCS in general since the main advantage of transferring from FBS to FCS instead of FBS to FBS is gone but, in principle, I think it's the right move. There will still be transfers from FBS to FBS but instead of getting Bama/Auburn rejects the FCS will get UAB/Southern Miss rejects instead. There also should be a stipulation that coaches/schools can't block a transfer from going anywhere he pleases including schools in the same conference or schools that his outgoing institution will play in the next year or two.

EDIT: Another potential consequence of this for FCS schools is it'll make it more appealing for players to transfer up since they would no longer have to wait until they graduate to transfer up without penalty.

[Nickels]

What's the SLC going to do now?

[RootinFerDukes]

This is very bad for FCS as FBS transfers are part of our recruiting. The quality of the student athlete will continue to suffer.

I agree that if you're going to truly open up transferring, OPEN UP TRANSFERRING. Make it an NCAA violation for a coach to tell a student where he can't transfer. FBS, FCS, intra-conference, D3 to SEC. It doesn't matter. If a guy gets an offer, a guy gets an offer.

Now FBS programs higher up the food chain will try to poach student athletes that are shining at lower level schools. How do NDSU fans feel about that? I hate the idea personally. We're becoming their farm system.

[IBleedYellow]

This is very bad for FCS as FBS transfers are part of our recruiting. The quality of the student athlete will continue to suffer.Speak for yourself.

We don't take many FBS transfers...but this could depleat our depth that we've established.

Kid figures out he's good enough to play for FBS, contacts an FBS school and boom, gone.

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[RootinFerDukes]

Speak for yourself.

We don't take many FBS transfers...but this could depleat our depth that we've established.

Kid figures out he's good enough to play for FBS, contacts an FBS school and boom, gone.

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Yeah that's what I'm saying. We're now just the G5 and P5 farm system. How do you feel about Easton Stick getting poached with a year or two left of eligibility or Tanguay or Cox or Anderson?

[IBleedYellow]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. We're now just the G5 and P5 farm system. How do you feel about Easton Stick getting poached with a year or two left of eligibility or Tanguay or Cox or Anderson?Easton was available to transfer this year and he already didn't. Nebraska and Scott Frost contacted him. He's from Omaha and said no.

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[RootinFerDukes]

Easton was available to transfer this year and he already didn't.

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Yes that's right. He was a Junior this year? I would imagine it'll be more of an issue for underclassmen as a rising senior may feel that transferring with one year left isn't worth the hassle. Then underclassmen don't get as much playing time typically to stand out enough.

We'll have to see. I don't see how this is good in any way for anyone but the P5 at the end of the day. The G5 are winning too as they feel that when an FBS player transfers to FCS, they're being cheated out of an opportunity for "their" players.

[Professor Chaos]

Now FBS programs higher up the food chain will try to poach student athletes that are shining at lower level schools. How do NDSU fans feel about that? I hate the idea personally. We're becoming their farm system.
It'll make a difference but not a huge one IMO. The bigger impact will be the reduction of FBS dropdowns and, due to more FBS kids going to other FBS schools, there probably won't be as many spots as you'd think for FCS "move ups". Or, if there is, that just means there will be more FBS drop downs. There's still the same number of scholarships available for FBS schools so they can't just hoard all the great players.

[Pinnum]

Who will be the first program to form a relationship with P5 team and be a feeder for them?

FCS program with close ties to the P5 school and coaching staff could share the same rulebook and trade players. Be a feeder for the P5 and allow P5 players to transfer down already knowing the system.

Why redshirt at a P5 when you can play FCS for a year or two then transfer for the Spring semester and start in the fall as a sophomore or a junior? If it is a program with an affiliation, the P5 coaches can regularly visit your practices and get to know you.

[BEAR]

Who will be the first program to form a relationship with P5 team and be a feeder for them?

FCS program with close ties to the P5 school and coaching staff could share the same rulebook and trade players. Be a feeder for the P5 and allow P5 players to transfer down already knowing the system.

Why redshirt at a P5 when you can play FCS for a year or two then transfer for the Spring semester and start in the fall as a sophomore or a junior? If it is a program with an affiliation, the P5 coaches can regularly visit your practices and get to know you.

UCA will form a tie with one of the SEC schools out of state because the pigs don't want anything to do with anyone in the state. Which one? Maybe Missouri. Maybe Ole Miss. Who knows. But southern farm teams will be gold for SEC teams... Although UCA has had a great relationship with a certain Michigan team....

[UpstateBison]

This is very bad for FCS as FBS transfers are part of our recruiting. The quality of the student athlete will continue to suffer.

I agree that if you're going to truly open up transferring, OPEN UP TRANSFERRING. Make it an NCAA violation for a coach to tell a student where he can't transfer. FBS, FCS, intra-conference, D3 to SEC. It doesn't matter. If a guy gets an offer, a guy gets an offer.

Now FBS programs higher up the food chain will try to poach student athletes that are shining at lower level schools. How do NDSU fans feel about that? I hate the idea personally. We're becoming their farm system.

I think this is great for the athletes but should be limited to 1 “free” transfer. I don’t think you will have many FCS to FBS but you will have fewer FBS to FCS transfers in my opinion. JMU, JSU and SHSU will have to work a bit harder developing high school recruits.


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[walliver]

It would be a win for the G5, but won't make much of a difference for FCS. Good P5 players not getting enough playing time could easily transfer to the AAC and still get some national attention.

To me, this proposal just shows that the NCAA has "gone pro" and given up on the idea of academics.

I doubt FCS goes the farm team route, as only a small number of players transfer as it is.

[ElCid]

I doubt FCS goes the farm team route, as only a small number of players transfer as it is.

But I think that number will rise now that they have enabled it. It may not be as dire as some predict, but I think we will see some movement we wouldn't see previously. Time will tell.

[Twentysix]

Whose rights are more important, the University and it's fans or the student athletes?

That really seems to be the crux of the ongoing arguments here.

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[IBleedYellow]

Whose rights are more important, the University and it's fans or the student athletes?

That really seems to be the crux of the ongoing arguments here.

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I mean let's be honest here. The players get locked into this when they sign LOIs. It's definitely in the players best interest that they are able to move more freely. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Bisonator]

Would suck to see a great player transfer to another school but if he doesn't want to be here don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

[Twentysix]

Would suck to see a great player transfer to another school but if he doesn't want to be here don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!Agreed, I think a lot of people are underestimating the kind of loyalty that is, and can be, developed by coaches and programs. The great programs already have the loyalty, this is just another thing for lacking universities to develop. Realistically, this will make NDSU better. This also means fcs players can transfer without sitting. Goddert and Weinke could have been champions. ;)

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[Twentysix]

I think it's really funny that after 20 posts no one even acknowledged that this opens up a basically non-existent fcs to fcs xfer. It's almost like all the players in the fcs wouldn't rather play for one team specifically ;).

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[WestCoastAggie]

Team’s APR numbers will tank because of this rule, if these teams try to get too caught up in the transfer game.

[Pinnum]

I think it's really funny that after 20 posts no one even acknowledged that this opens up a basically non-existent fcs to fcs xfer. It's almost like all the players in the fcs wouldn't rather play for one team specifically ;).

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It would be interesting to see how this impacts the likes of PFL and NEC. Schools that have less scholarship investments into their programs may see their top players leaving for other schools that are able or willing to give more scholarships and/or aid.

[TheKingpin28]

It would be interesting to see how this impacts the likes of PFL and NEC. Schools that have less scholarship investments into their programs may see their top players leaving for other schools that are able or willing to give more scholarships and/or aid.If you can't afford D1 football, you should not be in D1 football. I know the argument is, what about the PFL, well they still give academic scholarships and find a way around it, (I talked to their old coach [San Diego] of almost 30 years and he said that is how they get around it) while still covering flights and transportation.

Savannah St.

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[centraljerseycat]

Wow where is KC Keeler going to find quarterbacks now????

[IBleedYellow]

I think it's really funny that after 20 posts no one even acknowledged that this opens up a basically non-existent fcs to fcs xfer. It's almost like all the players in the fcs wouldn't rather play for one team specifically ;).

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99% of the players that will want to come here we won't want. How many grad transfers have we had? ONE? From UNI? Because he liked Coach Klieman.

[RootinFerDukes]

I mean let's be honest here. The players get locked into this when they sign LOIs. It's definitely in the players best interest that they are able to move more freely. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Yeah the argument can be made that coaches can leave a job overnight (literally in our case with Withers). Regular students can transfer schools with few restrictions as to where.
Why can’t student athletes?

[Professor Chaos]

Team’s APR numbers will tank because of this rule, if these teams try to get too caught up in the transfer game.
They were talking about it on the NDSU radio station today and one suggestion they heard that I liked was only allowing a penalty free transfer if the student-athlete meets certain academic requirements (something like a 2.5 GPA). That would hopefully curb some of the APR hits this could cause.

[Twentysix]

99% of the players that will want to come here we won't want. How many grad transfers have we had? ONE? From UNI? Because he liked Coach Klieman.Idk at this point ndsu football is the strongest championship brand in any sport. I think you are underestimating the willingness of a sophomore AA at a no name fcs school. ;) Time will tell.

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[Outsider1]

They were talking about it on the NDSU radio station today and one suggestion they heard that I liked was only allowing a penalty free transfer if the student-athlete meets certain academic requirements (something like a 2.5 GPA). That would hopefully curb some of the APR hits this could cause.


I would be more for it with something like this and only a one time freebie, then with set transfer penalties after that. I could see this as somewhat beneficial to FCS programs if it is better thought out; there could be FCS to FCS transfers even if there will be less FBS to FCS. If student athletes are truly important to the NCAA that would happen. Unfortunately, student athlete really only means something to that student athlete. I don't think the majority of athletes now see themselves as students first anymore. Why would the NCAA?

[KPSUL]

Wow, what a hardship. Teams will now have to recruit the players that fit best in their program, develop those players to their full potential, truly get players to commit to their education, and build mutual loyalty and trust with each player. In other words, what should have been already happening.

Trying to market your school as a P5 farm program would be an embarrassment. Of course, every team will lose an occasional star player to an FBS program, but FCS programs that have successfully built their programs from the ground up, and never brought in a truck load of transfers in the past, will be hurt far less by this rule change. First because they have never relied on transfers to field successful team, and secondly, they have recruited and developed players who are more committed to their school and have not had to fear getting displaced by a transfer student.

[Bisonator]

Idk at this point ndsu football is the strongest championship brand in any sport. I think you are underestimating the willingness of a sophomore AA at a no name fcs school. ;) Time will tell.

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The problem is most can't seem to pick up our system in a year. Look at our current FBS transfer, didn't contribute much this year at all.

[KPSUL]

They were talking about it on the NDSU radio station today and one suggestion they heard that I liked was only allowing a penalty free transfer if the student-athlete meets certain academic requirements (something like a 2.5 GPA). That would hopefully curb some of the APR hits this could cause.

I believe that NDSU will get hurt less by this change than most FCS teams. The Bison have football program, not a team. The have the system in place that is high functioning. Yes they've brought in some talented FBS transfers, but they are not as reliant on this players the way most every opponent they have faced in the National Championship has been. This rule change will effect the SHSUs, JMUs and Ill. States of the FCS world more than it will NDSU.

[saxbison]

99% of the players that will want to come here we won't want. How many grad transfers have we had? ONE? From UNI? Because he liked Coach Klieman.

I agree with your general statement, but Koonce was also a grad transfer from SMU.

[Grizzlies82]

This will likely affect every FCS team. Like it or not, to a degree they are subject to becoming FBS farm teams. No, players won't be jumping up en mas yet FCS teams will be subject to losing the cream of the crop.

Players who shone early in their careers such as E. WA's Cooper Kupp will be getting constant calls from USC, UDub, ect... to jump up to the PAC 12. An exceptional athlete at NDSU will potentially hear from Michigan, Penn St., Ohio St., etc... Not every student would choose to make a change. However, it is going to be one heck of a hard decision for them to stay put when the phone rings. Guaranteed, several FCS teams will lose their "star" player to the big boys. The FCS team finds that diamond in the rough player, and the big dogs will be there to gather them up once they're discovered.

Then there is the issue of FCS to FCS poaching. The wailing will be loud if say No. Iowa starts stock piling the best players off the mid tier to bottom dwellers of the MVFC teams. I am not predicting that precisely happens but some version of it will. "Why return there to play on a 3-8 team again. Come to us and contend for championships..." Fact is, the existing rules served a purpose to prevent all of this. They ought to retain them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I kind of like it! It might help a program like Temple, Memphis, Boise State get 2-3 high level P5 transfers who want to play and showcase their NFL talent.

The PL schools don't often take transfers so it won't have much of an affect. Lehigh almost never takes them which has been foolish imo....

[cx500d]

I agree with your general statement, but Koonce was also a grad transfer from SMU.
Was he a grad transfer?

[IBleedYellow]

I agree with your general statement, but Koonce was also a grad transfer from SMU.

Did you go to UND? Or did you have bad reading comprehension before you went to college?

[TheKingpin28]

Was he a grad transfer?Yeah. Got his bachelor's in 2 years and went for his masters. That is someone who truly took advantage of the education system provides for athletes.

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[IBleedYellow]

Yeah. Got his bachelor's in 2 years and went for his masters. That is someone who truly took advantage of the education system provides for athletes.

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Lol Damnnnnn. 2 years for a bachelors. I ain't even mad, I'm impressed.

[TheKingpin28]

Lol Damnnnnn. 2 years for a bachelors. I ain't even mad, I'm impressed.Graduating with a free master's and a championship ring is a hell of a steal. Now he plans to go to law school. Kid is extremely smart.

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[kdinva]

Yeah. Got his bachelor's in 2 years and went for his masters.

sounds like a Liberty on-line education.... xrotatehx

[Bisonator]

Graduating with a free master's and a championship ring is a hell of a steal. Now he plans to go to law school. Kid is extremely smart.

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That's good because he isn't making it as a punter.;)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It would be interesting to see how this impacts the likes of PFL and NEC. Schools that have less scholarship investments into their programs may see their top players leaving for other schools that are able or willing to give more scholarships and/or aid.

If you want a peek into the future, look at NEC hoops, where the First Team All-NEC essentially becomes a recruiting list for richer programs. It sucks and it isn't what college athletics should be about.

[Pinnum]

If you want a peek into the future, look at NEC hoops, where the First Team All-NEC essentially becomes a recruiting list for richer programs. It sucks and it isn't what college athletics should be about.


Exactly!

[ElCid]

Whose rights are more important, the University and it's fans or the student athletes?

That really seems to be the crux of the ongoing arguments here.

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Yeah, but we are talking about rules here, not "rights." In any event, rights could mean anything that anyone wanted them to, whether those rights are legit or not. A student athlete could be abused by any number of schools who want them, and the student's right go an actual education could be seriously jeopardized. Talk of rights would turn this issue on its head.

[Yote 53]

This will likely affect every FCS team. Like it or not, to a degree they are subject to becoming FBS farm teams. No, players won't be jumping up en mas yet FCS teams will be subject to losing the cream of the crop.

Players who shone early in their careers such as E. WA's Cooper Kupp will be getting constant calls from USC, UDub, ect... to jump up to the PAC 12. An exceptional athlete at NDSU will potentially hear from Michigan, Penn St., Ohio St., etc... Not every student would choose to make a change. However, it is going to be one heck of a hard decision for them to stay put when the phone rings. Guaranteed, several FCS teams will lose their "star" player to the big boys. The FCS team finds that diamond in the rough player, and the big dogs will be there to gather them up once they're discovered.

Then there is the issue of FCS to FCS poaching. The wailing will be loud if say No. Iowa starts stock piling the best players off the mid tier to bottom dwellers of the MVFC teams. I am not predicting that precisely happens but some version of it will. "Why return there to play on a 3-8 team again. Come to us and contend for championships..." Fact is, the existing rules served a purpose to prevent all of this. They ought to retain them.

Already happens. USD lost Andrew Van Ginkel after his breakout freshman campaign. Last saw him in the Big Ten Championship making big sack plays for Wisconsin. You don't think a kid like that would have made a difference for USD this past season? The Coyotes would have, arguably, the best offensive player in the country on one side of the ball and the best defensive player in the country on the other.

This rule will simply accelerate what already happens by making it easier. AVG transferred to a JUCO at semester and immediately picked up scholarship offers from every P5 program in the Midwest. Under this new rule a player wouldn't even need to do that, could transfer at semester from his FCS school right to his P5 school in time for Spring Ball. You don't think this would have a devastating effect on the FCS? Players aren't that attached to their schools after one single semester. Player movement would be high. The freshman All-America team will become nothing more than a P5 recruiting service list.

The only way a program could combat freshman transfer and protect themselves from being depleted is to automatically redshirt every freshman they bring in. No matter what. After two years at a school players set down roots, it gets harder to leave.

[Yote 53]

sounds like a Liberty on-line education.... xrotatehx

Sounds like he took a lot of AP classes while in high school and walked onto campus as a sophomore/junior with 5 years of playing eligibility.

[Thumper 76]

Yeah, but we are talking about rules here, not "rights." In any event, rights could mean anything that anyone wanted them to, whether those rights are legit or not. A student athlete could be abused by any number of schools who want them, and the student's right go an actual education could be seriously jeopardized. Talk of rights would turn this issue on its head.

So why should the rules trump an athletes right to go to any school he chooses? Why is he penalized? If a school pulls an athletes scholarship what’s their penalty? A kid should be able to transfer just like any other student, whether it makes us as fans happy or not about what it does to the team shouldn’t affect that. Yeah I don’t love the idea, there’s a possibility we could have had Weineke and Goedert leave us with this rule change, but are we setting rules to make fans happy or to look out for athletes?


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[Anthony215]

If anything this will just make coaches more hesitant at the FCS level to play true freshmen as I can't see FBS coaches risking a full ride scholarship on a freshman who redshirted at the FCS level or put up good numbers in 3-4 games and then was buried down the depth chart. Also I think you'll see more FCS to FCS transfers than you'll see FCS to FBS transfers simply due to the new early signing day happening in December, most coaches will have few if any scholarships open for a January enrollee transfer especially those kids participating in the FCS championship game who wouldn't be able to sign a LOI until their season was over.

[PurpleStreamers]

sounds like a Liberty on-line education.... xrotatehx

Just wanted to slow clap this post. (Also trying to avoid being a Decemberist this year).

[ElCid]

So why should the rules trump an athletes right to go to any school he chooses? A student can go to any school, just not play sports without rules. Why is he penalized? Penalties are in the eye of the beholder. If a school pulls an athletes scholarship what’s their penalty? If a student gets his scholarship pulled, there is a reason. Why should the school be penalized for following their rules. Don't like their rules? Don't go there to begin with. A kid should be able to transfer just like any other student, (They can, just not play sports because of the dangers of abuse) whether it makes us as fans happy or not about what it does to the team shouldn’t affect that. Yeah I don’t love the idea, there’s a possibility we could have had Weineke and Goedert leave us with this rule change, but are we setting rules to make fans happy or to look out for athletes? Looking out for the athletes how? To get playing time at a "better venue" or an education...the later being the purpose for college. Don't want an education? Start a professional farm league.


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The arguments you make are all made from a position that sports are above an education. Many might not agree with the rules, but these rules are their to protect the student as well as schools. Students could easily become nothing more that a commodity with no care to their education. We may be there already with the slipshod education some of these athletes get. A school invests in a student by giving them a scholarship. If a student decides to jump ship for their own purposes, the schools loses their investment. Are contracts next? I jest, but these types of arguments lead down a dark road.

[Twentysix]

The arguments you make are all made from a position that sports are above an education. Many might not agree with the rules, but these rules are their to protect the student as well as schools. Students could easily become nothing more that a commodity with no care to their education. We may be there already with the slipshod education some of these athletes get. A school invests in a student by giving them a scholarship. If a student decides to jump ship for their own purposes, the schools loses their investment. Are contracts next? I jest, but these types of arguments lead down a dark road.

Why? What if the player wants to transfer to a higher ranked academic school and still play football. It doesn't have to be sports OR an education, it can be both and the student can be the one who holds the power, there is no good reason to give the institution control rather than the student.

We clearly see this very differently, because I completely disagree with your point of view in both posts.

I'd much rather play football for and go to school at UCLA than San Diego. Both my academic prospects and my sports prospects would be infinitely better at UCLA. Now a freshman or sophomore might get that opportunity when it wasn't one out of high school.

Same thing for Indiana State vs Indiana or Indiana State vs Notre Dame. Also now as a student playing for JMU I can decide to transfer to William and Mary for academic reasons without giving up football.

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[ElCid]

Why? What if the player wants to transfer to a higher ranked academic school and still play football. It doesn't have to be sports OR an education, it can be both and the student can be the one who holds the power, there is no good reason to give the institution control rather than the student.

We clearly see this very differently, because I completely disagree with your point of view in both posts.

I'd much rather play football for and go to school at UCLA than San Diego. Both my academic prospects and my sports prospects would be infinitely better at UCLA. Now a freshman or sophomore might get that opportunity when it wasn't one out of high school.

Same thing for Indiana State vs Indiana or Indiana State vs Notre Dame. Also now as a student playing for JMU I can decide to transfer to William and Mary for academic reasons without giving up football.

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Those examples are all for the high road. Rules are made for the low road.

[RootinFerDukes]

Teams with coaching changes will also be hurt. I would say they rely on transfers more often to fill roster and depth holes. When HCs turn over, as is JMU's case with 3 coaches in five years, some current players turn over for whatever reason. Some recruits bail as they're getting picked off by their second tier offers or even last minute swoop ins from FBS who give them a PWO but wouldn't commit to giving them a scholarship previously.

A variety of reasons, but transfers help to fill gaps sometimes during coaching changes and even in the 1 or 2 years following. The programs with 5, 10+ year tenured coaches may not be relying on transfers as much.

[RootinFerDukes]

Part of transfers is your geographic region in the country too. Why do SHSU and JMU have many transfers? SHSU has, what like 7+ FBS programs just in state? What's a kid going to look at when he doesn't want to lose a year of eligiblity? "Hey if i'm going FCS, may as well go to a good program. Oh man, this one's even in state so my family can see me play". Boom done. Transferred.

North Dakota, New Hampshire? They're not quite as rich with P5 or even G5 within their region. FCS is a hard sell to a kid, going states away for FCS is probably an even harder sell.

I don't get why some on here are on a transfer athlete high horse all the time. "My school doesn't WANT transfers." Yep, not ever potentially the other way around.

[TheKingpin28]

Part of transfers is your geographic region in the country too. Why do SHSU and JMU have many transfers? SHSU has, what like 7+ FBS programs just in state? What's a kid going to look at when he doesn't want to lose a year of eligiblity? "Hey if i'm going FCS, may as well go to a good program. Oh man, this one's even in state so my family can see me play". Boom done. Transferred.

North Dakota, New Hampshire? They're not quite as rich with P5 or even G5 within their region. FCS is a hard sell to a kid, going states away for FCS is probably an even harder sell.

I don't get why some on here are on a transfer athlete high horse all the time. "My school doesn't WANT transfers." Yep, not ever potentially the other way around.

The reason NDSU does not want transfers as the culture that is built from that 1st day on campus is "You chose us, so we choose you." Why would any school want to say to a kid who has worked their ass off to finally get playing time, "oh by the way, we know you worked hard but this kid was a P5 guy so he HAS to be better." Notice how schools who build their program from the bottom up, generally do better than those who do not? NDSU takes 1-2 a year and it is usually ones who were already recruited by NDSU not the other way around. Also, most of the time, these transfers do not pan out in the Bison system, so it is not like it worked out like what was hoped.

[IBleedYellow]

I don't get why some on here are on a transfer athlete high horse all the time. "My school doesn't WANT transfers." Yep, not ever potentially the other way around.

You don't get it. NDSU fans think that what we do is the best. Since the results show it, we clearly can't be wrong! Right? Slight sarcasm here. But that's the general train of thought.


Also, I know NDSU has been burned by FBS transfers before... actually our punter this year was a FBS transfer.

God I hope we have a better punter.

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[ST_Lawson]

We've had pretty good luck with transfers, especially back in the late '90s and early '00s. The best RB in school history, Aaron Stecker, was a starting RB at Wisconsin until he lost the starting job to eventual Heisman winner Ron Dayne (Stecker ended up with the longer NFL career though). Lots of our better defensive players from that era were also transfers from FBS.

[Derby City Duke]

I don't think there is one-size fits all solution across the subdivision -- historically, apparently, NDSU hasn't been a big believer/player in the FBS transfer market. It's worked very well for them. They've had a very stable coaching situation for a long time (4 coaches in last 30 years) with Klieman on the staff for 3 years prior to becoming the HC. SHSU on the other hand, while having only 4 coaches in the last 35 years, has had 3 in the last 13. JMU has had 3 in the last 5 years. Agreeing with RfD that staff changes have great impact early in a new HC's tenure. Why do most school's get new HCs? What they were doing either didn't work or wasn't quite getting it done postseason-wise. Allows a coach to accelerate a culture shift within the program.

In JMU's case the transfers, for the most part, have been depth builders -- there were some exceptions Darrious Carter and Terrence Alls for example this year (Alls was really the #4 receiver last year behind Taylor, Ravenel, and Davis). Little and Word were both LBs from UVa -- didn't play all that much this year. Hyman (WR from Kansas) was a spot player who played well when given the opportunity. Marshall was probably #3 on the depth chart until Johnson went down in game #3 (his performance vs. ECU notwithstanding -- their defense was probably one of the 2 worst we faced all year).

It will be interesting to see how K.C. Keeler and Mike Houston are using transfers 5-6 seasons down the road (if they are still at their schools).

[RootinFerDukes]

It will be interesting to see how K.C. Keeler and Mike Houston are using transfers 5-6 seasons down the road (if they are still at their schools).

I don't remember exactly, but it seemed like Mickey Matthews, who was ultimately at 15 year HC, grabbed one or two transfers per season tops? He didn't seem to bring them in nearly as much as the last two coaches have. Perhaps it's a combination of, he wasn't looking for transfers as aggressively and maybe we've become more of a name in FCS in our region thanks to Mickey's tenure and FBS transfers usually have us at the top of their lists if they are considering transferring to FCS and live in the mid-Atlantic.

I am hoping to see Mike Houston stay for an extended period of time and then we SHOULD be relying on transfers much less often unless you just get an absolute slam dunk talent that you can't pass up. Either way, Mike Houston has said we get a significant amount of transfer requests and only the best talent and character players in areas where depth is needed end up getting accepted. He said we're turning away many transfer requests a year.

[KPSUL]

Part of transfers is your geographic region in the country too. Why do SHSU and JMU have many transfers? SHSU has, what like 7+ FBS programs just in state? What's a kid going to look at when he doesn't want to lose a year of eligiblity? "Hey if i'm going FCS, may as well go to a good program. Oh man, this one's even in state so my family can see me play". Boom done. Transferred.

North Dakota, New Hampshire? They're not quite as rich with P5 or even G5 within their region. FCS is a hard sell to a kid, going states away for FCS is probably an even harder sell.

I don't get why some on here are on a transfer athlete high horse all the time. "My school doesn't WANT transfers." Yep, not ever potentially the other way around.

You guys have players from Pitt, Rutgers, and Northwestern on the roster. And for that matter, UNH recruits players from Maryland and Virginia, so I'm sure geography doesn't preclude FBS transfers from traveling 700 miles. Right, wrong or indifferent, the reason UNH gets no FBS recruits is that Coach McDonnell simply does not want to go that route. JMU is an attractive option for FBS recruits for a bunch of reasons, and your last two head coaches go after them in a big way.

[kperk014]

Agreed, I think a lot of people are underestimating the kind of loyalty that is, and can be, developed by coaches and programs. The great programs already have the loyalty, this is just another thing for lacking universities to develop. Realistically, this will make NDSU better. This also means fcs players can transfer without sitting. Goddert and Weinke could have been champions. ;)

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So you really think if Alabama or Ohio State or Georgia had a specific opening to fill and called a kid at NDSU, that he would say "No, sorry. I don't want to play in front of 100,000 people on nation-wide and sometimes world-wide tv." I think people should be a little more realistic about the allure of P5.

[Twentysix]

So you really think if Alabama or Ohio State or Georgia had a specific opening to fill and called a kid at NDSU, that he would say "No, sorry. I don't want to play in front of 100,000 people on nation-wide and sometimes world-wide tv." I think people should be a little more realistic about the allure of P5.I mean I had heard that just happened with Nebraska and Easton Stick. He still plays for NDSU. Or were you not looking for tangible examples?

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[kperk014]

I mean I had heard that just happened with Nebraska and Easton Stick. He still plays for NDSU. Or were you not looking for tangible examples?

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I meant a power program. Nebraska.... haha

[RootinFerDukes]

I mean I had heard that just happened with Nebraska and Easton Stick. He still plays for NDSU. Or were you not looking for tangible examples?

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Not realistically the example we're giving here. He would have one year of eligibility left? Obviously the fewer years of eligibility remaining, the harder it is to poach a player. Was he being guaranteed a starting QB spot? If not, I certainly don't blame him for passing on Nebraska compared to starting at NDSU.

Player relationships with their coaches are going to be even more critical to prevent poaching. The starting QB for EWU was poached by Oregon a few years back, so I'd imagine those situations will become more common with fewer restrictions on transferring in place.

[RootinFerDukes]

The tricky part with the best P5 programs wanting the best FCS talent is they're fighting a media and public perception battle. How bad would Alabama, Oklahoma or Ohio State get railed by the media if they grabbed NDSU, JSU or JMU's top starting QBs? "You are starting a D2 player?!?!" Twitter explodes.

The realistic suitors will be mid to low end P5 and all of the G5.

[Professor Chaos]

I meant a power program. Nebraska.... haha
Power programs haven't, and likely never will, go the transfer route very often. And if they're looking to supplement they'd probably try to weaken a rival over trying to raid an FCS team.

[ElCid]

Not realistically the example we're giving here. He would have one year of eligibility left? Obviously the fewer years of eligibility remaining, the harder it is to poach a player. Was he being guaranteed a starting QB spot? If not, I certainly don't blame him for passing on Nebraska compared to starting at NDSU.

Player relationships with their coaches are going to be even more critical to prevent poaching. The starting QB for EWU was poached by Oregon a few years back, so I'd imagine those situations will become more common with fewer restrictions on transferring in place.

We had a DB bolt for Miami his 5th year. He was AA for two years. Difference being, he had graduated and gotten his ring. He did the graduate thing at Miami. Started a good amount of games down there including the Orange bowl game, but had an injury for a few. I think it may have been easier for him considering our coaching situation the last few years. He played under three coaches. I am sure he also wanted some additional exposure his last year. I am sure we will see him on Sundays. As a fan, I wish he had stayed, but I can understand his decision. He was pretty dang good. But spending fours years in Charleston is quite enough for some folks. I think most will stay for their 5th year though.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm not sure if this is the same transfer rule overhaul proposal that prompted the tweet in IBY's initial post but Yahoo's Pat Forde has an article up regarding something proposed by the Big 12 going up for vote to the NCAA membership this year that sounds very similar.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ncaa-must-back-revolutionary-athlete-transfer-proposal-220528626.html

Essentially the highlights are:

Schools cannot place any restrictions on where an outgoing student-athlete may transfer to.
Student-athletes can transfer and gain immediate eligibility at their new institution regardless of level if the school they're leaving received a postseason ban in the past year.
Student-athletes can transfer and gain immediate eligibility at their new institution if their head coach has left or been removed in the past year. The exception is they cannot transfer to their outgoing coach's new institution without having to sit out a year.


So it seems like this wouldn't be nearly the sweeping change as was originally thought and, in fact, just adds some common sense logic into the transfer rules that should only benefit the student-athletes. xtwocentsx

[kperk014]

Let's say sophomore Walter Payton has just stunned America as a freshman at Jackson State. Do you believe the elites wouldn't notice that?

UNA signed a linebacker named Ronald McKinnon. He had all the skills, instincts and intangibles you would want in a middle linebacker except for one. Neither Alabama, Auburn or any other SEC team came calling because he weighed only 190 pounds. Who would have thought he would blossom into a 230 pound stud who would dominate D2 for 4 years, enter the pros and in his second season unseat LSU's Eric Hill for the MLB spot for the Cardinals. He would go on to start for ten years in the NFL. Meanwhile NONE of the linebackers at Alabama or Auburn made it in the pros.

On that same team they also had a skinny 6-6 220 pound freshman defensive end named Israel Raybon, an agile athlete who matured into a dominating 6-7 300 pound defensive end/tackle. He played in the East-West Shrine Game and was named the MVP of the Blue-Gray game.

Along side him in that game was UNA teammate Marcus Keyes, an athletic 6-3 315 pound defensive tackle who joined Raybon in the NFL draft. Unfortunately Keyes was in an automobile wreck and suffered an NFL career ending neck energy. Raybon was a bit of an enigmatic free spirit who frustrated coaches in Pittsburgh and Carolina with flashes of what he could do but inconsistencies doomed him to the XFL.

If rules had been different, I think there's no way we hang onto all three of those guys.

[Twentysix]

I'm not sure if this is the same transfer rule overhaul proposal that prompted the tweet in IBY's initial post but Yahoo's Pat Forde has an article up regarding something proposed by the Big 12 going up for vote to the NCAA membership this year that sounds very similar.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ncaa-must-back-revolutionary-athlete-transfer-proposal-220528626.html

Essentially the highlights are:

Schools cannot place any restrictions on where an outgoing student-athlete may transfer to.
Student-athletes can transfer and gain immediate eligibility at their new institution regardless of level if the school they're leaving received a postseason ban in the past year.
Student-athletes can transfer and gain immediate eligibility at their new institution if their head coach has left or been removed in the past year. The exception is they cannot transfer to their outgoing coach's new institution without having to sit out a year.


So it seems like this wouldn't be nearly the sweeping change as was originally thought and, in fact, just adds some common sense logic into the transfer rules that should only benefit the student-athletes. xtwocentsxThere is zero chance that this isn't what this thread had been speculating on. This is a way more plausible change. To bad too, we could have raided the FCS.

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[RootinFerDukes]

That is excellent news when I saw it. Yes, that is just common sense that benefits the student athlete and that should be the point.

I just think you shouldn't touch the "moving down a level" transfer rule for immediate eligibility. The reality is you need to incentivize some student athletes to consider the level and I see that as a good thing honestly.

[kperk014]

There is zero chance that this isn't what this thread had been speculating on. This is a way more plausible change. To bad too, we could have raided the FCS.

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But what's best for the athlete is rarely what's best for the sport. There are millions of us who no longer watch basketball at the college or pro level. In our day we were able to form attachments to players all over the country because they stayed in school for 3 or 4 years. Then you watched the NBA draft intently to follow the players into the NBA. I last watched the draft several years ago. Due to the one and dumbs I recognized maybe 7 or 8 players. The rest were no-names and foreigners so we weren't going to follow that bunch into the NBA.

In the glory days of college and pro basketball, the players stayed 3 or 4 years. Shaq stayed 3 years, Patrick Ewing stayed 4 years, Michael Jordan stayed 3 years, The Admiral David Robinson stayed 4 years, the Human Highlight Reel stayed 3 years, Tim Duncan 4, Ralph Sampson 4 (can you imagine a 7'4" center who could shoot and run like a guard in today's game?) Kareem stayed 4 years, Walton Stayed 4 years, Steve Nash 4, David Thompson stayed 4 years, Christian Latener 4, Danny Manning 4, Barkley stayed 3 years and on and on. It made college basketball better, it made the players better players when they got to the NBA. The quality of college basketball really began to drop about 15 years ago and reached a level that us older fans could do without. Of course the drop in that level also caused a drop in the NBA. There were about 7 teams in the NBA in the 80s and 90s that were never able to win it all but would roll to a championship now because of the breakdown caused by players going to the NBA who weren't taught how to play the game in college. Talent isn't everything.

Football at both levels is being damaged as well though not to the extent of basketball. We will never again see REAL powerhouse teams due to the flood of players abandoning their teams short of their senior seasons. The "Greatest Teams Ever" will remain the teams before this era. Teams like the Hurricanes of 2001, Nebraska of 95, Alabama of 1992 and 1979, the Oklahoma and Miami teams of the mid-80s. Not only did those teams have great underclassmen but more importantly they had great senior classes.

Just as free agency has made the quality of pro football a mere shadow of what it was, giving unfettered transfer ability to college players will take a huge chunk out of the quality of football. Unlike basketball, it takes a while to put a team together, to get the chemistry and cohesiveness that makes for top quality football. Look at the NFL. There used to be multiple teams with good to great offensive lines. You can count the number of teams with decent offensive lines on one hand now. Why? Because just as the line is beginning to gel, a couple of them will abandon their teammates. Once again, the poor quality of play there and especially at the QB position makes it hard for us who aren't used to such ineptness continue to watch. The rules have been changed so much over the last 40 years to give the advantage to the offense that EVERY QB should be throwing for 4,000 yards and 50 TDs a year yet they don't.

I guess in 5 or 6 years everyone will be used to it and ineptness will be considered top quality and then it won't matter.

[Professor Chaos]

But what's best for the athlete is rarely what's best for the sport. There are millions of us who no longer watch basketball at the college or pro level. In our day we were able to form attachments to players all over the country because they stayed in school for 3 or 4 years. Then you watched the NBA draft intently to follow the players into the NBA. I last watched the draft several years ago. Due to the one and dumbs I recognized maybe 7 or 8 players. The rest were no-names and foreigners so we weren't going to follow that bunch into the NBA.

In the glory days of college and pro basketball, the players stayed 3 or 4 years. Shaq stayed 3 years, Patrick Ewing stayed 4 years, Michael Jordan stayed 3 years, The Admiral David Robinson stayed 4 years, the Human Highlight Reel stayed 3 years, Tim Duncan 4, Ralph Sampson 4 (can you imagine a 7'4" center who could shoot and run like a guard in today's game?) Kareem stayed 4 years, Walton Stayed 4 years, Steve Nash 4, David Thompson stayed 4 years, Christian Latener 4, Danny Manning 4, Barkley stayed 3 years and on and on. It made college basketball better, it made the players better players when they got to the NBA. The quality of college basketball really began to drop about 15 years ago and reached a level that us older fans could do without. Of course the drop in that level also caused a drop in the NBA. There were about 7 teams in the NBA in the 80s and 90s that were never able to win it all but would roll to a championship now because of the breakdown caused by players going to the NBA who weren't taught how to play the game in college. Talent isn't everything.

Football at both levels is being damaged as well though not to the extent of basketball. We will never again see REAL powerhouse teams due to the flood of players abandoning their teams short of their senior seasons. The "Greatest Teams Ever" will remain the teams before this era. Teams like the Hurricanes of 2001, Nebraska of 95, Alabama of 1992 and 1979, the Oklahoma and Miami teams of the mid-80s. Not only did those teams have great underclassmen but more importantly they had great senior classes.

Just as free agency has made the quality of pro football a mere shadow of what it was, giving unfettered transfer ability to college players will take a huge chunk out of the quality of football. Unlike basketball, it takes a while to put a team together, to get the chemistry and cohesiveness that makes for top quality football. Look at the NFL. There used to be multiple teams with good to great offensive lines. You can count the number of teams with decent offensive lines on one hand now. Why? Because just as the line is beginning to gel, a couple of them will abandon their teammates. Once again, the poor quality of play there and especially at the QB position makes it hard for us who aren't used to such ineptness continue to watch. The rules have been changed so much over the last 40 years to give the advantage to the offense that EVERY QB should be throwing for 4,000 yards and 50 TDs a year yet they don't.

I guess in 5 or 6 years everyone will be used to it and ineptness will be considered top quality and then it won't matter.
Did you read the article I posted earlier?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ncaa-must-back-revolutionary-athlete-transfer-proposal-220528626.html

Or is your rant unrelated to the transfer rule changes? Because you're making a lot out of a few simple changes. In general I agree that pro defections to the NBA/NFL aren't good for college basketball/football but I don't agree with pressuring kids to stay in school because their predecessors did when they have the ability to warrant it and pro teams are willing to give them the financial security that few 19-21 year olds will ever have. The job of college is to prepare a person for their profession. If a college athlete has prospective employers who deem him employable who are we to tell him he should put the good of the sport in front of what's best for him personally? Sure, he gets a free education essentially but that's peanuts in comparison to what he'd make in the pros.

Your beef shouldn't be with the NCAA, it should be with the NBA and NFL. I'd love to see the NBA adopt a policy that allows a prospect to declare for the draft out of high school but to stipulate that if he decides not to he cannot declare again for 2 years. The one-and-done rule is just bad for both sides. For the NFL I think their mandate that players have to wait 3 years after graduating high school to be draft eligible is fine but I'd like to see them adopt the NBA's policy of allowing players to "test the waters" by working out for NFL scouts and getting a legit draft grade after which they can decide to pull their name from the draft and return to school if they'd like. I think too many guys are convinced to leave early by agents feeding them bull**** that they'll be a first or second day draft pick when they end up being undrafted and throwing away a free degree for an undrafted free agent contract with very little, if any, guarantees relative to the value of their scholarship.

[kperk014]

Oh I do blame the pro leagues. We always act like we're worried about the "student" athletes yet we permit 19 year olds to be thrown into a life of debauchery that is known as pro sports. It's an adult league with adult misbehavior. The nba and mlb won't even consider putting a 21 and older rule in that would help with the athlete's safety and at the same time, upgrade the quality of all sports. Of course, if they tried there would be charges of racism, violation of the civil right to be corrupted by greedy agents etc.

As surveys have shown, most people don't like watered down sports and unsavory players. I was reading a study the other day about a big decline in interest of sports in general in this country. Granted it isn't just about the quality being watered down and boys on their knees but that IS a lot of the reason. Call it a rant if you want. I call it a FACT.

[TheKingpin28]

Oh I do blame the pro leagues. We always act like we're worried about the "student" athletes yet we permit 19 year olds to be thrown into a life of debauchery that is known as pro sports. It's an adult league with adult misbehavior. The nba and mlb won't even consider putting a 21 and older rule in that would help with the athlete's safety and at the same time, upgrade the quality of all sports. Of course, if they tried there would be charges of racism, violation of the civil right to be corrupted by greedy agents etc.

As surveys have shown, most people don't like watered down sports and unsavory players. I was reading a study the other day about a big decline in interest of sports in general in this country. Granted it isn't just about the quality being watered down and boys on their knees but that IS a lot of the reason. Call it a rant if you want. I call it a FACT.One of the reason I love the NHL is that out of the 4 major sports, they are the most physically gifted and talented and yet play an 82 game season, get their ass tosses around like a rag doll, play up to 110 games potentially (playoffs included but no all-star or pre-season) and the max contract is around 10 million a season.



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[kperk014]

One of the reason I love the NHL is that out of the 4 major sports, they are the most physically gifted and talented and yet play an 82 game season, get their ass tosses around like a rag doll, play up to 110 games potentially (playoffs included but no all-star or pre-season) and the max contract is around 10 million a season.

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I became a hockey fan in the mid '90s. Before then I would have told you you were crazy if you said I would like hockey. Well, after my first visit to a minor league hockey game, I was HOOKED. It took me about 34 years but I was hooked. I tell people you get to watch boxing, wrastlin (I am in the South you know :D), speed skating, figure skating and football-style hitting all in comfortable seats inside a warm building. Another BIG plus for me: the players rarely are out causing trouble such as the nfl and nba favorites of assault, rape, sodomy, theft, armed robbery, using drugs, dealing drugs and disrespecting the fans who've made them rich. Hockey has moved into a solid second behind college football for me. You can have the other pro leagues. Quality of play is bad to go along with the scumbags who play it. I know they all aren't scumbags but there's enough that I don't watch anymore.

[TheKingpin28]

I became a hockey fan in the mid '90s. Before then I would have told you you were crazy if you said I would like hockey. Well, after my first visit to a minor league hockey game, I was HOOKED. It took me about 34 years but I was hooked. I tell people you get to watch boxing, wrastlin (I am in the South you know :D), speed skating, figure skating and football-style hitting all in comfortable seats inside a warm building. Another BIG plus for me: the players rarely are out causing trouble such as the nfl and nba favorites of assault, rape, sodomy, theft, armed robbery, using drugs, dealing drugs and disrespecting the fans who've made them rich. Hockey has moved into a solid second behind college football for me. You can have the other pro leagues. Quality of play is bad to go along with the scumbags who play it. I know they all aren't scumbags but there's enough that I don't watch anymore.I could watch hockey all day and never get bored. College football is slightly behind it but not by much. After that it goes Premier Legaue/MLB/NFL and everything after that is practically off my radar.

Been a hockey fan since I could remember so probably 22 years or so.

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[clenz]

Oh I do blame the pro leagues. We always act like we're worried about the "student" athletes yet we permit 19 year olds to be thrown into a life of debauchery that is known as pro sports. It's an adult league with adult misbehavior. The nba and mlb won't even consider putting a 21 and older rule in that would help with the athlete's safety and at the same time, upgrade the quality of all sports. Of course, if they tried there would be charges of racism, violation of the civil right to be corrupted by greedy agents etc.

As surveys have shown, most people don't like watered down sports and unsavory players. I was reading a study the other day about a big decline in interest of sports in general in this country. Granted it isn't just about the quality being watered down and boys on their knees but that IS a lot of the reason. Call it a rant if you want. I call it a FACT.
Um....baseball does it the right way.

You can go out of HS, but if you don't you have to be 3 years out of HS....which is basically a 21 year old rule.

Nice try. Most of your post is mostly junk but that was especially garbagey...

[grizband]

Um....baseball does it the right way.

You can go out of HS, but if you don't you have to be 3 years out of HS....which is basically a 21 year old rule.

Nice try. Most of your post is mostly junk but that was especially garbagey...
The NFL also has the 3 years out of highschool rule.

[clenz]

The NFL also has the 3 years out of highschool rule.
I just find the whole "exposing young adults to the world of pro sports" thing stupid.

19 year olds can enter the work force in any other profession that allows them to and they don't complain. The debauchery of pro sports happens in, well, pretty much every field in some form.

We should ban everyone from working until they are 22 years old, no matter the job!!!!

[grizband]

I just find the whole "exposing young adults to the world of pro sports" thing stupid.

19 year olds can enter the work force in any other profession that allows them to and they don't complain. The debauchery of pro sports happens in, well, pretty much every field in some form.

We should ban everyone from working until they are 22 years old, no matter the job!!!!
I've always found it odd as well. Colin Cowherd is noted for stating he didn't graduate college (I believe he had one semester remaining), because his adviser told him to take work if offers were available. Athletes in individual sports (tennis, golf, etc) don't have to wait until a specific age to compete professionally, which lends itself to one conclusion: the amount of money made in college football and college basketball. The powers that be don't want to risk losing all this income, by allowing their top stars to go pro early. Now, very few (if any) 18/19 year olds would be physically ready to play in the NFL, but that age group has been successful in the NBA.

[ST_Lawson]

I just find the whole "exposing young adults to the world of pro sports" thing stupid.

19 year olds can enter the work force in any other profession that allows them to and they don't complain. The debauchery of pro sports happens in, well, pretty much every field in some form.

We should ban everyone from working until they are 22 years old, no matter the job!!!!

And 18-year-olds can pick up a weapon and be shipped overseas to fight and die, but god forbid they get exposed to sex, drugs, and other irresponsible/fun uses of money at that age.

[Bisonoline]

And 18-year-olds can pick up a weapon and be shipped overseas to fight and die, but god forbid they get exposed to sex, drugs, and other irresponsible/fun uses of money at that age.

Yep I have never been able to understand that bull**** reasoning.

[kperk014]

Would you send YOUR 19 year old out with a bunch of drug using would be felons as they try to nail every skanky they can get their hands on? Dumb question. Of course YOU would. LOL

[kperk014]

Then NO ONE should complain or worry about these kids when they end up in rehab or prison.

[kperk014]

Hope a dumbell like you never had any kids. If you do you probably supply them with weed and hookers. So much for junk, eh boy.

[kperk014]

But MANY more have been unsuccessful. The nba history books are littered with them. You should check it out. Young boy gets money for the first time in his life and is sent out on the road 7 or 8 months into the wilderness of big cities with people who could care less about him and all kinds of bad people trying to get their hooks into them. Yeah, that's a smart thing. Did you ever watch the espn show called Broke. Most of that esteemed cast left school early or didn't go at all. They were dead meat but that's great, right? Funny, why does the nfl and nba try so hard to give advice to those kids about the dangers awaiting them out there if there's nothing to worry about. You fellows are so naive. I'll bet you let your 13 year old daughters go out with 19 year old dropouts.

[Twentysix]

Hope a dumbell like you never had any kids. If you do you probably supply them with weed and hookers. So much for junk, eh boy.Oh god not Marijuana. Please only fill them up full of liquor. We can't possibly have them use a LEGAL drug. Give them a bottle of gin and a cigar instead, that way they won't OD on Marijuanas.

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