AGS Poll Results - Week 7 - 10/16/2017

[AGSPoll]

AGS Poll Results - Week 7 - 10/16/2017



Rank
Team:
Total Points
First Place Votes
Previous Wk.


1
James Madison Dukes
1912
67
1


2
North Dakota State Bison
1841
4
2


3
South Dakota Coyotes
1750
6
3


4
Jacksonville State Gamecocks
1675

4


5
Wofford Terriers
1582

5


6
Central Arkansas Bears
1525

6


7
Western Illinois Leathernecks
1339

10


8
Eastern Washington Eagles
1315

11


9
Youngstown State Penguins
1295

7


10
Sam Houston State Bearkats
1275

9


11
Elon Phoenix
1174

13


12
Richmond Spiders
926

18


13
North Carolina A&T Aggies
859

17


14
Western Carolina Catamounts
695

20


15
South Dakota State Jackrabbits
694

8


16
Villanova Wildcats
664

12


17
Samford Bulldogs
656

19


18
Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
632

21


19
Stony Brook Seawolves
590

24


20
Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
494

23


21
McNeese State Cowboys
369

22


22
Montana Grizzlies
351

25


23
Weber State Wildcats
343

14


24
New Hampshire Wildcats
265

15


25
Southern Utah Thunderbirds
133

NR

















ORV:





26
Albany Great Danes
119

26


27
Illinois State Redbirds
93

16


28
Northern Iowa Panthers
77

NR


29
Dartmouth Big Green
73

27


30
Grambling State Tigers
65

28


31
Monmouth Hawks
64

29


32
Nicholls State Colonels
61

30


33
Furman Paladins
45

34


34
North Carolina Central Eagles
30

33


35
Kennesaw State Owls
18

39


36
Eastern Illinois Panthers
8

38


37
The Citadel Bulldogs
4

31


38T
Austin Peay Governors
2

NR


38T
Columbia Lions
2

37


40
UC Davis Aggies
1

36










Most Significant Win:
North Dakota State Bison






Most Significant Loss:
South Dakota State Jackrabbits



























Fell Out Of Poll:






Maine Black Bears






Montana State Bobcats






Tennessee State Tigers

[centennial]

SDSU too high. Gotten blown out twice. Should be 20-25.

[Professor Chaos]

The Wedge blog post for the top 25 this week: http://thefcswedge.com/ags-poll/ags-poll-top-25-week-7-results-2/

Teams like Richmond and Western Carolina really were the beneficiaries of a bunch of losses from the teams around them.

I have no idea how Northern Iowa is all the way down at #28 when SDSU is at #15. Either one or both of those is very wrong given what we saw last Saturday.

I don't think UNH deserves to be in the top 25 either. Albany is much more deserving IMO despite them being 3-3 compared to 4-2 for UNH.

[DirtyDukes]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Elon Phoenix
11: Sam Houston State Bearkats
12: North Carolina A&T Aggies
13: Richmond Spiders
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: Western Carolina Catamounts
16: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Montana Grizzlies
20: Illinois State Redbirds
21: Weber State Wildcats
22: McNeese State Cowboys
23: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
24: Villanova Wildcats
25: New Hampshire Wildcats

[Thumper 76]

SDSU too high. Gotten blown out twice. Should be 20-25.

I think you meant shouldn’t be ranked


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[Daytripper]

1: South Dakota Coyotes
2: James Madison Dukes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Wofford Terriers
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: North Carolina A&T Aggies
10: Western Illinois Leathernecks
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Eastern Washington Eagles
15: Weber State Wildcats
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
23: Grambling State Tigers
24: Montana Grizzlies
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

Daytripper

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

[Professor Chaos]

Here's my stab at it:


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Western Illinois Leathernecks
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Eastern Washington Eagles
11: Sam Houston State Bearkats
12: Western Carolina Catamounts
13: Richmond Spiders
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: North Carolina A&T Aggies
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Albany Great Danes
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
21: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
22: Northern Iowa Panthers
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
25: Montana Grizzlies

[centennial]

I think you meant shouldn’t be ranked


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There aren't enough good teams to vote for. Clearly some voters think that they are borderline top 10.

[Professor Chaos]

11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

Care to explain this placement for SDSU when you have UNI unranked?

[RabidRabbit]

SDSU too high. Gotten blown out twice. Should be 20-25.

Agreed. But apparently other voters had trouble finding worthy alternatives. IIRC, I voted them in 19th, UNI at 23. YSU shouldn't lose another game. That's a murder's row the Guins have been through.

[Daytripper]

Care to explain?

My opinion.

[Gangtackle11]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Wofford Terriers
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Western Illinois Leathernecks
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
15: Stony Brook Seawolves
16: Richmond Spiders
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Monmouth Hawks
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
23: Samford Bulldogs
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Gangtackle11

The Most Significant Win: James Madison Dukes
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association

[kdinva]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Western Illinois Leathernecks
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Elon Phoenix
11: North Carolina A&T Aggies
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Richmond Spiders
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Dartmouth Big Green
23: Eastern Illinois Panthers
24: Illinois State Redbirds
25: North Carolina Central Eagles


EDIT; crap, I left out YSU....meant to have them @ #18, bump the others down one.....xshakefistx

[Thumper 76]

There aren't enough good teams to vote for. Clearly some voters think that they are borderline top 10.

I didn’t have any problems.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BisonBacker]

Hello BisonBacker,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 9:13:45

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Wofford Terriers
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Western Illinois Leathernecks
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Richmond Spiders
12: North Carolina A&T Aggies
13: Elon Phoenix
14: McNeese State Cowboys
15: Samford Bulldogs
16: Nicholls State Colonels
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
23: Western Carolina Catamounts
24: The Citadel Bulldogs
25: New Hampshire Wildcats

BisonBacker

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

[Thumper 76]

Hello Thumper 76,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 19:00:03

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Western Carolina Catamounts
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Eastern Washington Eagles
12: Villanova Wildcats
13: North Carolina A&T Aggies
14: Western Illinois Leathernecks
15: Samford Bulldogs
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
18: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
19: Richmond Spiders
20: Weber State Wildcats
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Furman Paladins
23: Montana Grizzlies
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Monmouth Hawks

Thumper 76

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference



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[Professor Chaos]

My opinion.
I mistook NAU for UNI at first. Edited my post. So you think the UNI/SDSU game last Saturday was a complete anomaly then?

[tenNesseeCat]

Holy ****...WCU at 14??? I'll take it!!!

[JSUSoutherner]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Sam Houston State Bearkats
10: Eastern Washington Eagles
11: Villanova Wildcats
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Richmond Spiders
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: New Hampshire Wildcats
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: North Carolina A&T Aggies
20: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
21: McNeese State Cowboys
22: Montana Grizzlies
23: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
24: Nicholls State Colonels
25: Albany Great Danes

JSUSoutherner

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Ohio Valley Conference

[Daytripper]

I mistook NAU for UNI at first. Edited my post. So you think the UNI/SDSU game last Saturday was a complete anomaly then?

Actually, yes. UNI hasn't proven enough to me. Every year they disappoint me. They have to earn my trust back.

[RootinFerDukes]

SDSU is too high at #15. Should be 20ish range IMO.

UNH drops 9 spots after losing to a ranked team in last week's poll? Ouch. That's a bit harsh.

[clenz]

Actually, yes. UNI hasn't proven enough to me. Every year they disappoint me. They have to earn my trust back.

I’m not advocating for voting for uni, I didn’t.

But.

UNI led WIU - your #10 team, with 7 seconds left in the game
UNI beat SDSU by 20 and it was a 4 TD game with like 4 min left at SDSU in their Homecoming.
UNI was a blocked FG with 1 min left away from beating SUU at SUU - SUU is your #25 team

Again, not saying UNI should be ranked....but....your logic is goofy.

[Professor Chaos]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Wofford Terriers
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Western Illinois Leathernecks
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Youngstown State Penguins
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
15: Stony Brook Seawolves
16: Richmond Spiders
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Monmouth Hawks
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
23: Samford Bulldogs
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Gangtackle11

The Most Significant Win: James Madison Dukes
The Most Significant Loss: Youngstown State Penguins
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association
SDSU still at #11 with YSU at #12 and UNI unranked?

Sure seems like SDSU is getting a whole lot more "benefit of the doubt" than most other teams do.

[clenz]

SDSU still at #11 with YSU at #12 and UNI unranked?

Sure seems like SDSU is getting a whole lot more "benefit of the doubt" than most other teams do.

Yup.

And if SDSU is going to get that much, uni should as well.

I didn’t have either in my submission.

[RootinFerDukes]

Actually, yes. UNI hasn't proven enough to me. Every year they disappoint me. They have to earn my trust back.

I'm in the same boat. I won't overreact to one big win. UNI is now on the radar, but I still need to see more wins from them.

[clenz]

I'm in the same boat. I won't overreact to one big win. UNI is now on the radar, but I still need to see more wins from them.

This is the right answer.

UNI fans were a really weird mix of pissed off and happy on Saturday.

The team was saw Saturday is what we expected to see all year. It pissed us off because we haven’t seen that time this year.

[Professor Chaos]

I'm in the same boat. I won't overreact to one big win. UNI is now on the radar, but I still need to see more wins from them.
So you think UNH is better than UNI?

[centennial]

I’m not advocating for voting for uni, I didn’t.

But.

UNI led WIU - your #10 team, with 7 seconds left in the game
UNI beat SDSU by 20 and it was a 4 TD game with like 4 min left at SDSU in their Homecoming.
UNI was a blocked FG with 1 min left away from beating SUU at SUU - SUU is your #25 team

Again, not saying UNI should be ranked....but....your logic is goofy.

UNI is #17 for me. Has played good teams well. OOC was a mess so some voters are apprehensive.

[RootinFerDukes]

So you think UNH is better than UNI?

At this time, it's really splitting hairs. What you can't argue against is that UNH has had more consistency lately in the win column. Both are borderline 20-30 range teams as of the end of this week.

[PantherRob82]

Hello PantherRob82,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 8:44:53

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Villanova Wildcats
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Richmond Spiders
13: Western Illinois Leathernecks
14: Western Carolina Catamounts
15: Samford Bulldogs
16: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17: North Carolina A&T Aggies
18: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
19: Stony Brook Seawolves
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Montana Grizzlies
23: Weber State Wildcats
24: Furman Paladins
25: Albany Great Danes

PantherRob82

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/nqL0VN9f7M_hmwU0IOV0syCCHG5_rqA4BgCGD8v2LKe2DbDasR W6xbFfY0-wMShYrigxV-fZNG0Fex0nVH7TYk4vnC0=s0-d-e1-ft#http://www.anygivensaturday.com/agslogo200.jpg

[Evolution Prime]

1. James Madison
2. North Dakota State
3. Jacksonville State
4. South Dakota
5. Wofford
6. Central Arkansas
7. Youngstown State
8. Eastern Washington
9. Western Illinois
10. Elon
11. Villanova
12. Sam Houston State
13. Richmond
14. Samford
15. North Carolina A&T
16. McNeese State
17. Northern Arizona
18. Montana
19. Delaware
20. Northern Iowa
21. South Dakota State
22. Weber State
23. Stony Brook
24. New Hampshire
25. Illinois State

Sig. Win - Northern Iowa
Sig. Loss - Illinois State

[JSUSoutherner]

23: Eastern Illinois Panthers


No.

[nevadagriz]

1: South Dakota Coyotes
2: James Madison Dukes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Wofford Terriers
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: North Carolina A&T Aggies
10: Western Illinois Leathernecks
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Eastern Washington Eagles
15: Weber State Wildcats
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
23: Grambling State Tigers
24: Montana Grizzlies
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

Daytripper

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Ok I have to ask tripper how come SDSU is ranked above EWU????????

[Catamount87]

What wait. One voter has WCU in at #8, way, way too high and another doesn't even have us ranked at all even though we beat their #14 Samford and took their #5 to overtime?

[KPSUL]

1: South Dakota Coyotes
2: James Madison Dukes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Wofford Terriers
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: North Carolina A&T Aggies
10: Western Illinois Leathernecks
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Eastern Washington Eagles
15: Weber State Wildcats
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
23: Grambling State Tigers
24: Montana Grizzlies
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

Daytripper

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

Weber 15th and So Utah 25th ? Were you aware that they played in Ogden, UT Saturday and So Utah won 32-16 ? Both teams are 4-2 in the same conference.

[caribbeanhen]

Delaware over Richmond in a lot of the polls Wows
I wouldn't be thinking that way just yet
I guess will know on Saturday

[caribbeanhen]

1: South Dakota Coyotes
2: James Madison Dukes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Central Arkansas Bears
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Wofford Terriers
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: North Carolina A&T Aggies
10: Western Illinois Leathernecks
11: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Eastern Washington Eagles
15: Weber State Wildcats
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: New Hampshire Wildcats
22: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
23: Grambling State Tigers
24: Montana Grizzlies
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

Daytripper

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

no Richmond but New Hampshire ranked?

[KPSUL]

I’m not advocating for voting for uni, I didn’t.

But.

UNI led WIU - your #10 team, with 7 seconds left in the game
UNI beat SDSU by 20 and it was a 4 TD game with like 4 min left at SDSU in their Homecoming.
UNI was a blocked FG with 1 min left away from beating SUU at SUU - SUU is your #25 team

Again, not saying UNI should be ranked....but....your logic is goofy.

Sometimes we can be a little tough on our own teams - UNI is the only 3-3 team that deserves to be ranked.

[clenz]

At this time, it's really splitting hairs. What you can't argue against is that UNH has had more consistency lately in the win column. Both are borderline 20-30 range teams as of the end of this week.
UNH is 4-2
UNI is 3-3

Okay, more consistency by 1 game, I guess I'll give you that

UNH has played
Maine - who is 2-3 with wins over partial scholarship Bryant who is 2-4 and Rhode Island who is 1-5
Georgia Southern - who is winless in the FBS and not even competitive in anything
Holy Cross - LOST TO HOLY CROSS who is 2-5 just fired their coach mid season
Bryant - who is 2-4 and partial scholarship...Maine's best win
Rhode Island - who is 1-5
Stony Brook - The only truly good team they've played and they lost by 2 scores

UNI has played
Iowa State - who is 4-2 and ranked 28th in the FBS right now actually
Cal Poly - they are bad, no question
Southern Utah - top 25 team on the road - lost by 3 on a last second field goal
Southern Illinois - a win and SIU is 3-3 and just beat Illinois State by a ton
Western Illinois - top 10 team and had a lead with 7 seconds left in the game
South Dakota State - top 20 team that UNI beat by 20 on the road

If we are looking at schedules the 3-3 is every bit as good, if not better than that 4-2.

If we look at the Massey Composite rankings
UNH ranked 45th
UNI ranked 15

SOS numbers per Massey
UNH 184th
UNI 104th

Sagarin numbers
UNH - 164th (39th in FCS) with SOS of 210
UNI - 95th (7th in FCS...way too high of course) with an SOS of 107

Again, I'm not advocating for UNI to be ranked, nor am I saying UNH shouldn't be. It's just funny to see the standard UNI is held at compared others right now (specifically by voters out east) because of polls that happened 5-6 years ago when all of our players were in middle school

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah, seems like UNI has the perpetually overrated stigma attached to them now so they are being held to a higher standard by some voters than other marginal teams. I guess in the end you gotta rank someone 20-25 even if you think no one is worth but some of those marginal teams (like UNI) may not have as many warts this year as some voters think.

[mango433]

Yup.

And if SDSU is going to get that much, uni should as well.

I didn’t have either in my submission.

This is correct. SDSU doesn't deserve to be ranked. They haven't beat one good team.

[clenz]

Yeah, seems like UNI has the perpetually overrated stigma attached to them now so they are being held to a higher standard by some voters than other marginal teams. I guess in the end you gotta rank someone 20-25 even if you think no one is worth but some of those marginal teams (like UNI) may not have as many warts this year as some voters think.
The overrated tag of the ags era is also interesting.

If you look at what UNI has achieved vs the drops they take at the end of the season after a playoff loss you really wonder about it.

05 was national runner up
07 was a quarterfinal loss to the national runner up
08 was a semi-final loss to the national champion
11 was a quarterfinal loss to Montana in Montana
14 was a quarterfinal loss to the national champion
15 was a quarterfinal loss

Crazy to see a team with 6 quarter final, or deeper, runs in a decade be called the single most overrated program of the AGS era.

I haven't looked but I'd bet UNI took a pretty massive tumble from week 10/11 to the final poll those years because it was a reaction to "Oh...there goes UNI again". Conversly UNI started those following years rated highly - coming off those seasons anyone would be. 06 was bad. 09 was still 7-4 but not great. If one starts, on average, at #5 and finishes, on average, around 15 that is a 10 spot average drop.

Looks like a "SUPER OVERREATED BECAUSE OF A 10 SPOT DIFFERENCE", yet the true reality isn't quite as damming.

Oh well.

[caribbeanhen]

I don't vote but if I did northern Iowa would be in the top 25

New Hampshire would be out

[KPSUL]

I guess in the end you gotta rank someone 20-25 even if you think no one is worth but some of those marginal teams (like UNI) may not have as many warts this year as some voters think.

EXACTLY! And that answers your question about UNH being ranked 20 something on AGS. 18th in the coaches and stats polls was not reasonable - based largely on past success and probably on an FBS win, that is now not impressive since Georgia Southern hasn't won a game. You could take teams 21- through 29 and pick the names out of a hat rather than using our submissions and end up just as accurate or fair.

[kalm]

UNH is 4-2
UNI is 3-3

Okay, more consistency by 1 game, I guess I'll give you that

UNH has played
Maine - who is 2-3 with wins over partial scholarship Bryant who is 2-4 and Rhode Island who is 1-5
Georgia Southern - who is winless in the FBS and not even competitive in anything
Holy Cross - LOST TO HOLY CROSS who is 2-5 just fired their coach mid season
Bryant - who is 2-4 and partial scholarship...Maine's best win
Rhode Island - who is 1-5
Stony Brook - The only truly good team they've played and they lost by 2 scores

UNI has played
Iowa State - who is 4-2 and ranked 28th in the FBS right now actually
Cal Poly - they are bad, no question
Southern Utah - top 25 team on the road - lost by 3 on a last second field goal
Southern Illinois - a win and SIU is 3-3 and just beat Illinois State by a ton
Western Illinois - top 10 team and had a lead with 7 seconds left in the game
South Dakota State - top 20 team that UNI beat by 20 on the road

If we are looking at schedules the 3-3 is every bit as good, if not better than that 4-2.

If we look at the Massey Composite rankings
UNH ranked 45th
UNI ranked 15

SOS numbers per Massey
UNH 184th
UNI 104th

Sagarin numbers
UNH - 164th (39th in FCS) with SOS of 210
UNI - 95th (7th in FCS...way too high of course) with an SOS of 107

Again, I'm not advocating for UNI to be ranked, nor am I saying UNH shouldn't be. It's just funny to see the standard UNI is held at compared others right now (specifically by voters out east) because of polls that happened 5-6 years ago when all of our players were in middle school

And they're not the only CAA team you can draw this comparison to.

There appears to be quite a bit of regionalization and ignoring of schedule strength going on in all the polls.

[KPSUL]

I don't vote but if I did northern Iowa would be in the top 25

New Hampshire would be out

Fair enough! I didn't vote for Delaware for the past 6 seasons until Oct 8th.

[KPSUL]

I think I'm posting this mainly to show Go Green Dartmouth is getting some love from their NH brethren. I think the team would fare better in the polls if you gave'em a real nickname rather than just a color.

Hello KPSUL,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 8:07:13

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Western Illinois Leathernecks
8: Sam Houston State Bearkats
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Elon Phoenix
11: North Carolina A&T Aggies
12: Richmond Spiders
13: Samford Bulldogs
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: Western Carolina Catamounts
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: Youngstown State Penguins
20: Dartmouth Big Green
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

KPSUL

The Most Significant Win: James Madison Dukes
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Colonial Athletic Association

[clenz]

And they're not the only CAA team you can draw this comparison to.

There appears to be quite a bit of regionalization and ignoring of schedule strength going on in all the polls.
Yeah.

I think, and I can check, I had as many/more Big Sky and CAA teams than I did MVFC teams.

[BisonTru]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Youngstown State Penguins
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Western Illinois Leathernecks
10: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
11: Elon Phoenix
12: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
13: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Sam Houston State Bearkats
16: Western Carolina Catamounts
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Montana Grizzlies
19: Richmond Spiders
20: Samford Bulldogs
21: Weber State Wildcats
22: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23: North Carolina A&T Aggies
24: Northern Iowa Panthers
25: UC Davis Aggies

BisonTru

The Most Significant Win: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
The Most Significant Loss: Illinois State Redbirds
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

So I'm the lone vote for UC Davis. I guess the other 5 or so posters dropped them for their poor showing against bye.

[kalm]

Yeah.

I think, and I can check, I had as many/more Big Sky and CAA teams than I did MVFC teams.

And I probably have less BSC teams lol.

To copy Kingpin's post in the other thread, I think there are 3 Valley teams and one CAA that are rock solid right now.

After that, there's simply not enough quality wins or history out there to firmly establish the rest for sure. (Apologies to JSU, UCA, Wofford, and SHSU).

Again, SoS is under-evaluated. Give UNI or ISUo (for example) NCAT's schedule and the record is probably similar. Yet NCAT is top 10 in some polls.

Is there anyone else I can piss off?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

UNH is 4-2
UNI is 3-3

Okay, more consistency by 1 game, I guess I'll give you that

UNH has played
Maine - who is 2-3 with wins over partial scholarship Bryant who is 2-4 and Rhode Island who is 1-5
Georgia Southern - who is winless in the FBS and not even competitive in anything
Holy Cross - LOST TO HOLY CROSS who is 2-5 just fired their coach mid season
Bryant - who is 2-4 and partial scholarship...Maine's best win
Rhode Island - who is 1-5
Stony Brook - The only truly good team they've played and they lost by 2 scores

UNI has played
Iowa State - who is 4-2 and ranked 28th in the FBS right now actually
Cal Poly - they are bad, no question
Southern Utah - top 25 team on the road - lost by 3 on a last second field goal
Southern Illinois - a win and SIU is 3-3 and just beat Illinois State by a ton
Western Illinois - top 10 team and had a lead with 7 seconds left in the game
South Dakota State - top 20 team that UNI beat by 20 on the road

If we are looking at schedules the 3-3 is every bit as good, if not better than that 4-2.

If we look at the Massey Composite rankings
UNH ranked 45th
UNI ranked 15

SOS numbers per Massey
UNH 184th
UNI 104th

Sagarin numbers
UNH - 164th (39th in FCS) with SOS of 210
UNI - 95th (7th in FCS...way too high of course) with an SOS of 107

Again, I'm not advocating for UNI to be ranked, nor am I saying UNH shouldn't be. It's just funny to see the standard UNI is held at compared others right now (specifically by voters out east) because of polls that happened 5-6 years ago when all of our players were in middle school

You do however have the same coach and the players matter less because they have changed over time and yet UNI does have this rep for a reason. Not saying they won't break out of it once in a while but you have to understand that there is a certain amount of consistently being overvalued that voters will look at. Your reasoning above is sound, no argument there. Just saying that rep does have something to do with UNI and other teams ranking both to the good and to the bad at times.

[BisonFan02]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Eastern Washington Eagles
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Youngstown State Penguins
9: Western Illinois Leathernecks
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Samford Bulldogs
13: Elon Phoenix
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Villanova Wildcats
16: Western Carolina Catamounts
17: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
18: Richmond Spiders
19: McNeese State Cowboys
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Northern Iowa Panthers
22: North Carolina A&T Aggies
23: Dartmouth Big Green
24: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
25: Southern Utah Thunderbirds

BisonFan02

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: Illinois State Redbirds
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[Schism55]

Freaking LOL at Daytripper and JSUsoutherner having NDSU as the most significant win AND dropping them in the poll.
Maybe time to pump the brakes on the paint huffing fellas ;)

[clenz]

You do however have the same coach and the players matter less because they have changed over time and yet UNI does have this rep for a reason. Not saying they won't break out of it once in a while but you have to understand that there is a certain amount of consistently being overvalued that voters will look at. Your reasoning above is sound, no argument there. Just saying that rep does have something to do with UNI and other teams ranking both to the good and to the bad at times.Certainly. I'm not arguing UNI should be ranked. If UNI beats YSU this week, I might find a spot about 23 for them. No one has railed against Farley harder than I, especially the last few weeks. There's a Fire Farley thread on PantherNation I'm leading the charge on. I understand what the perception of UNI is.

I'm also aware of how borderline silly that perception is. It's crazy to think that UNI is 124-61 (68%) over the AGS era with 7 quarterfinal, or deeper, playoff appearances (that's an average of one every other year) and are the most overrated program. I get that is based on poll performance, but I guess I'd argue that UNI is punished harder than others for losses. Look at 2007. UNI went 12-1 with the loss to UD in the quarters. UD was national runner up. UNI finshed 4th in the poll. SIU finished 3rd. SIU was 12-2 with a loss to UD in the playoffs and a head to head loss to UNI. It's crazy that UNI's average poll finish is 13.1 between 2005 and 2016 and they are considered the most overrated program in the FCS.

FWIW, if you want to talk about consistency of UNI vs UNH over that same time frame...UNH is 126-57 (68%). So UNH has 2 more wins and 4 fewer losses. I, for one second, won't believe there is a massive gulf between the two programs with consistency, especially when SOS comes into play.

I get the perception. I get the history. I understand all of that. I can't fault anyone for thinking what they do.

What I can do is point out the logic flaw when it comes to the 2017 season and going "UNI is 3-3 so they HAVE TO BE WORSE than a team that is 4-2. Everyone has their own methodology, and that's what makes the AGS poll so accurate is taking that many different views, but there are a number of posters that will not vote for a team that isn't over .500 and have said overall record will always be considered before SOS driven results. There is a segment that would vote for Campbell, San Diego, Jacksonville and Butler a head of teams like YSU, UNI, Sac State, UC Davis, etc... because of the record. That's their right. They should be able to vote that way. Their logic flaws should also be able to be pointed out. Just as my logic flaws should be.

Again, UNI isn't a top 25 team. Not arguing they are. My issue is someone saying SDSU, SIU, UNH, etc... are clearly more deserving when if you look past the actual record there is a real debate to be had. That's all.

[caribbeanhen]

Fair enough! I didn't vote for Delaware for the past 6 seasons until Oct 8th.

Don't blame you one bit

[Daytripper]

Freaking LOL at Daytripper and JSUsoutherner having NDSU as the most significant win AND dropping them in the poll.
Maybe time to pump the brakes on the paint huffing fellas ;)

I didn't drop NDSU. They were my number three last week also....

[JSUSoutherner]

Freaking LOL at Daytripper and JSUsoutherner having NDSU as the most significant win AND dropping them in the poll.
Maybe time to pump the brakes on the paint huffing fellas ;)

Salty?

The reason I put NDSU as the most significant win wasn't because it's the most impressive win. I look at it more as which win taught us the most about each team. We learned a lot about the Bison this weekend after seeing them beat up on the little sisters of the poor all season. After seeing them be tested I gave USD the nod because I like what I've seen from USD more but I think NDSU's win was the most significant because we finally know what the Bison actually have.

It says "significant" not "impressive".

[clenz]

Salty?

The reason I put NDSU as the most significant win wasn't because it's the most impressive win. I look at it more as which win taught us the most about each team. We learned a lot about the Bison this weekend after seeing them beat up on the little sisters of the poor all season. After seeing them be tested I gave USD the nod because I like what I've seen from USD more but I think NDSU's win was the most significant because we finally know what the Bison actually have.

It says "significant" not "impressive".
Nailed it.

A couple years ago I dropped a team 12 spots while putting it as my most significant win.
I've moved teams up 7-10 spots in a loss as well.

[Daytripper]

Salty?

The reason I put NDSU as the most significant win wasn't because it's the most impressive win. I look at it more as which win taught us the most about each team. We learned a lot about the Bison this weekend after seeing them beat up on the little sisters of the poor all season. After seeing them be tested I gave USD the nod because I like what I've seen from USD more but I think NDSU's win was the most significant because we finally know what the Bison actually have.

It says "significant" not "impressive".

Couldn't have said it better myself....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Salty?

The reason I put NDSU as the most significant win wasn't because it's the most impressive win. I look at it more as which win taught us the most about each team. We learned a lot about the Bison this weekend after seeing them beat up on the little sisters of the poor all season. After seeing them be tested I gave USD the nod because I like what I've seen from USD more but I think NDSU's win was the most significant because we finally know what the Bison actually have.

It says "significant" not "impressive".
xdrunkyxxthumbsupx

[kalm]

Salty?

The reason I put NDSU as the most significant win wasn't because it's the most impressive win. I look at it more as which win taught us the most about each team. We learned a lot about the Bison this weekend after seeing them beat up on the little sisters of the poor all season. After seeing them be tested I gave USD the nod because I like what I've seen from USD more but I think NDSU's win was the most significant because we finally know what the Bison actually have.

It says "significant" not "impressive".

I can see ranking USD above the Bison but I'd also like to point out those little sisters of the poor for NDSU include TWO top 10 teams. Better SOS than JMU.

[Go Green]

UNH drops 9 spots after losing to a ranked team in last week's poll? Ouch. That's a bit harsh.

See what Holy Cross did on Saturday?

Surprised anyone voted for UNH at all.

[Go Green]

There aren't enough good teams to vote for.

Dartmouth says "hi!"

:)

[Yote84]

I’m not advocating for voting for uni, I didn’t.

But.

UNI led WIU - your #10 team, with 7 seconds left in the game
UNI beat SDSU by 20 and it was a 4 TD game with like 4 min left at SDSU in their Homecoming.
UNI was a blocked FG with 1 min left away from beating SUU at SUU - SUU is your #25 team

Again, not saying UNI should be ranked....but....your logic is goofy.

I wouldn't be surprised to see UNI win out. And that includes beating USD and NDSU. Not sure where the NDSU game is at though.

[JSUSoutherner]

I can see ranking USD above the Bison but I'd also like to point out those little sisters of the poor or NDSU include TWO top 10 teams. Better SOS than JMU.
Now it includes two.

Before this weekend the only team they played that has a pulse is EWU. I think EWU is overrated this year so I don't value that win as much as I do the YSU win. The EWU win hinted at what NDSU would be whereas YSU confirmed it. Hence the most significant win.

[clenz]

I wouldn't be surprised to see UNI win out. And that includes beating USD and NDSU. Not sure where the NDSU game is at though.
NDSU is a road game. That one isn't likely.

Remaining UNI goes

v YSU
@NDSU
v USD
@ MOSO
v ISUb

IF...big if...UNI plays like they did Saturday they get a minimum of 3 of those with 4 being extremely possible. Will that get a playoff bid? Don't know. 4 will, 3 likely won't.

UNI could also go 2-3 down the stretch.

[PantherRob82]

Dartmouth says "hi!"

:)
Winner of your game on Saturday gets a vote for me.

[dustinthorn93]

What I came up with for a poll..

1. James Madison Dukes
2. North Dakota State Bison
3. South Dakota Coyotes
4. Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5. Wofford Terriers
6. Western Illinois Leathernecks
7. Eastern Washington Eagles
8. Central Arkansas Bears
9. Youngstown State Penguins
10. Sam Houston State Bearkats
11. Elon Phoenix
12. Richmond Spiders
13. Southern Utah Thunderbirds
14. Northern Iowa Panthers
15. North Carolina A&T Aggies
16. Villanova Wildcats
17. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18. Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
19. Western Carolina Catamounts
20. Samford Buldogs
21. Montana Grizzlies
22. Weber State Wildcats
23. Stony Brook Seawolves
24. New Hampshire Wildcats
25. McNeese State Cowboys

Not perfect, but pretty decent.

[kalm]

Now it includes two.

Before this weekend the only team they played that has a pulse is EWU. I think EWU is overrated this year so I don't value that win as much as I do the YSU win. The EWU win hinted at what NDSU would be whereas YSU confirmed it. Hence the most significant win.

Yeah, but that's not what you said. NDSU's schedule is backloaded for sure but before this weekend, JMU's opponents were 8-17 including a Massey 325 in NSU and 255 in ETSU. Applying your reasoning, USD is a clear cut #1 and NAU should be a top 10.

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah, but that's not what you said. NDSU's schedule is backloaded for sure but before this weekend, JMU's opponents were 8-17 including a Massey 325 in NSU and 255 in ETSU. Applying your reasoning, USD is a clear cut #1 and NAU should be a top 10.

It is what I said. Read my post.

I said I wasn't convinced by NDSU because their competition had been weak until the YSU game. I said nothing about top 10 wins or the rankings of their opponents or the rank of their SOS. I said I wasn't sure what to make of them based the games they had played. I said YSU addressed that.

[TheKingpin28]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: James Madison Dukes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Western Illinois Leathernecks
7: Elon Phoenix
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Western Carolina Catamounts
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Richmond Spiders
14: Samford Bulldogs
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
23: McNeese State Cowboys
24: Weber State Wildcats
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

Fire away.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Brutally tough!

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Central Arkansas Bears
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Youngstown State Penguins
9: Western Illinois Leathernecks
10: Eastern Washington Eagles
11: North Carolina A&T Aggies
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Richmond Spiders
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Dartmouth Big Green
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: McNeese State Cowboys
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
22: Western Carolina Catamounts
23: Villanova Wildcats
24: Kennesaw State Owls
25: Monmouth Hawks

Go Lehigh TU owl

The Most Significant Win: Stony Brook Seawolves
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits

[TheKingpin28]

And I probably have less BSC teams lol.

To copy Kingpin's post in the other thread, I think there are 3 Valley teams and one CAA that are rock solid right now.

After that, there's simply not enough quality wins or history out there to firmly establish the rest for sure. (Apologies to JSU, UCA, Wofford, and SHSU).

Again, SoS is under-evaluated. Give UNI or ISUo (for example) NCAT's schedule and the record is probably similar. Yet NCAT is top 10 in some polls.

Is there anyone else I can piss off?

I am just "replying" to this, so you can see where my poll lies, and why I "bracketed" the teams I did.

[UNIFanSince1983]

I honestly don't get Illinois State receiving more votes than UNI. Neither should be ranked, but if you look at the last two weeks one team looks MUCH better than the other.

Last week ISU lost at SIU 42-7. Three weeks ago UNI won at SIU 24-17. UNI loses at the last second to highly rated WIU, and then beats highly rated SDSU at their house by 20. We won't see it on the field, but it appears to me UNI is better than ISUr at this point. Maybe neither should be ranked, but ISUr should certainly not have more votes than UNI.

[kalm]

I am just "replying" to this, so you can see where my poll lies, and why I "bracketed" the teams I did.

Thanks.

Hello kalm,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 7:06:17

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Western Illinois Leathernecks
8: Youngstown State Penguins
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Richmond Spiders
16: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Weber State Wildcats
19: New Hampshire Wildcats
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Illinois State Redbirds
23: Albany Great Danes
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Nicholls State Colonels

[dbackjon]

Hello BisonBacker,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 9:13:45

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Wofford Terriers
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Western Illinois Leathernecks
10: Youngstown State Penguins
11: Richmond Spiders
12: North Carolina A&T Aggies
13: Elon Phoenix
14: McNeese State Cowboys
15: Samford Bulldogs
16: Nicholls State Colonels
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Stony Brook Seawolves
22: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
23: Western Carolina Catamounts
24: The Citadel Bulldogs
25: New Hampshire Wildcats

BisonBacker

The Most Significant Win: North Dakota State Bison
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
No NAU?

[mvemjsunpx]

(previous week in parentheses)


1. James Madison (1)
2. North Dakota St. (2)
3. South Dakota (3)
4. Western Illinois (5)
5. Central Arkansas (4)
6. Jacksonville St. (6)
7. Sam Houston St. (8)
8. Youngstown St. (7)
9. Eastern Washington (11)
10. Elon (12)
11. Northern Arizona (13)
12. Wofford (14)
13. Richmond (15)
14. Delaware (16)
15. Stony Brook (17)
16. North Carolina A&T (18)
17. Western Carolina (19)
18. Samford (20)
19. South Dakota St. (9)
20. Weber St. (10)
21. Montana (21)
22. Albany (23)
23. Nicholls St. (NR)
24. McNeese St. (NR)
25. New Hampshire (25)

W - Northern Iowa
L - Illinois St.



Dropped - Illinois St. (22), Villanova (24)

[BisonBacker]

No NAU?

I debated and struggled with not including them. They are knocking on the door and with another Win will be in. But it's a legitimate critic of my poll.

[TheKingpin28]

Thanks.

Hello kalm,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 7:06:17

Your vote is listed below.


1: North Dakota State Bison
2: James Madison Dukes
3: South Dakota Coyotes
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Western Illinois Leathernecks
8: Youngstown State Penguins
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Richmond Spiders
16: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Weber State Wildcats
19: New Hampshire Wildcats
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Illinois State Redbirds
23: Albany Great Danes
24: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
25: Nicholls State Colonels

That is the only team that I am wondering why they are in the poll? The other ones could be argued as semantics and moved a few spots here and there but after getting curbed stomped at the Walkup Skydome and then just toyed with at Saluki Stadium, how do you justify the vote for ISUr? When I say, "how do you justify the vote for ISUr," I am asking, why you think they are in the top 25 when UNI and Samford have, IMO, probably done more to deserve it, not that, you are wrong and I am right.

[ElCid]

Certainly. I'm not arguing UNI should be ranked. If UNI beats YSU this week, I might find a spot about 23 for them. No one has railed against Farley harder than I, especially the last few weeks. There's a Fire Farley thread on PantherNation I'm leading the charge on. I understand what the perception of UNI is.

I'm also aware of how borderline silly that perception is. It's crazy to think that UNI is 124-61 (68%) over the AGS era with 7 quarterfinal, or deeper, playoff appearances (that's an average of one every other year) and are the most overrated program. I get that is based on poll performance, but I guess I'd argue that UNI is punished harder than others for losses. Look at 2007. UNI went 12-1 with the loss to UD in the quarters. UD was national runner up. UNI finshed 4th in the poll. SIU finished 3rd. SIU was 12-2 with a loss to UD in the playoffs and a head to head loss to UNI. It's crazy that UNI's average poll finish is 13.1 between 2005 and 2016 and they are considered the most overrated program in the FCS.

FWIW, if you want to talk about consistency of UNI vs UNH over that same time frame...UNH is 126-57 (68%). So UNH has 2 more wins and 4 fewer losses. I, for one second, won't believe there is a massive gulf between the two programs with consistency, especially when SOS comes into play.

I get the perception. I get the history. I understand all of that. I can't fault anyone for thinking what they do.

What I can do is point out the logic flaw when it comes to the 2017 season and going "UNI is 3-3 so they HAVE TO BE WORSE than a team that is 4-2. Everyone has their own methodology, and that's what makes the AGS poll so accurate is taking that many different views, but there are a number of posters that will not vote for a team that isn't over .500 and have said overall record will always be considered before SOS driven results. There is a segment that would vote for Campbell, San Diego, Jacksonville and Butler a head of teams like YSU, UNI, Sac State, UC Davis, etc... because of the record. That's their right. They should be able to vote that way. Their logic flaws should also be able to be pointed out. Just as my logic flaws should be.

Again, UNI isn't a top 25 team. Not arguing they are. My issue is someone saying SDSU, SIU, UNH, etc... are clearly more deserving when if you look past the actual record there is a real debate to be had. That's all.

I have watched Clenz all day lamenting N Iowa's perception and I can feel for him. UNI is a good team with a tough schedule every year. It is really hard to vote for a 2-4 or 1-5 or 3-3 team who has close loses to good teams. Especially when they might beat other 4-2 team that is getting into the top 20-10. But given the choice of playing a so-so schedule, personally I will take UNIs challenge of a good SOS each year. You just have to win if you are going to do that. I would be questioning their schedule more if you want more early wins. It's a crap shoot otherwise. They have been on the short side of the stick the last few years. Timing seems to be everything.

[kalm]

That is the only team that I am wondering why they are in the poll? The other ones could be argued as semantics and moved a few spots here and there but after getting curbed stomped at the Walkup Skydome and then just toyed with at Saluki Stadium, how do you justify the vote for ISUr? When I say, "how do you justify the vote for ISUr," I am asking, why you think they are in the top 25 when UNI and Samford have, IMO, probably done more to deserve it, not that, you are wrong and I am right.

Fair question and I think you can easily make a case for either to be ahead of the Redbirds.

In their defense, the EIU win is looking better at this point and I think NAU is under-rated. No bad losses but you can also make that case for UNI and Sammy.

[Houndawg]

This is the right answer.

UNI fans were a really weird mix of pissed off and happy on Saturday.

The team was saw Saturday is what we expected to see all year. It pissed us off because we haven’t seen that time this year.

Very similar to our season so far

[PantherRob82]

Fair question and I think you can easily make a case for either to be ahead of the Redbirds.

In their defense, the EIU win is looking better at this point and I think NAU is under-rated. No bad losses but you can also make that case for UNI and Sammy.

are you saying Illinois State has no bad losses? Because both of the last 2 games we’re bad losses.

[TheKingpin28]

Fair question and I think you can easily make a case for either to be ahead of the Redbirds.

In their defense, the EIU win is looking better at this point and I think NAU is under-rated. No bad losses but you can also make that case for UNI and Sammy.

If NAU is under-rated would that make ISUr overrated? Just remember this, EIU almost lost to ISUb. ISUb barley lost to Liberty who got beat by 3rd year program Kennesaw St. I guess I just do not see how the EIU win looks good when thinking about how they barely beat ISUb which is a middle of the road team in the FCS.

[Houndawg]

Certainly. I'm not arguing UNI should be ranked. If UNI beats YSU this week, I might find a spot about 23 for them. No one has railed against Farley harder than I, especially the last few weeks. There's a Fire Farley thread on PantherNation I'm leading the charge on. I understand what the perception of UNI is.

I'm also aware of how borderline silly that perception is. It's crazy to think that UNI is 124-61 (68%) over the AGS era with 7 quarterfinal, or deeper, playoff appearances (that's an average of one every other year) and are the most overrated program. I get that is based on poll performance, but I guess I'd argue that UNI is punished harder than others for losses. Look at 2007. UNI went 12-1 with the loss to UD in the quarters. UD was national runner up. UNI finshed 4th in the poll. SIU finished 3rd. SIU was 12-2 with a loss to UD in the playoffs and a head to head loss to UNI. It's crazy that UNI's average poll finish is 13.1 between 2005 and 2016 and they are considered the most overrated program in the FCS.

FWIW, if you want to talk about consistency of UNI vs UNH over that same time frame...UNH is 126-57 (68%). So UNH has 2 more wins and 4 fewer losses. I, for one second, won't believe there is a massive gulf between the two programs with consistency, especially when SOS comes into play.

I get the perception. I get the history. I understand all of that. I can't fault anyone for thinking what they do.

What I can do is point out the logic flaw when it comes to the 2017 season and going "UNI is 3-3 so they HAVE TO BE WORSE than a team that is 4-2. Everyone has their own methodology, and that's what makes the AGS poll so accurate is taking that many different views, but there are a number of posters that will not vote for a team that isn't over .500 and have said overall record will always be considered before SOS driven results. There is a segment that would vote for Campbell, San Diego, Jacksonville and Butler a head of teams like YSU, UNI, Sac State, UC Davis, etc... because of the record. That's their right. They should be able to vote that way. Their logic flaws should also be able to be pointed out. Just as my logic flaws should be.

Again, UNI isn't a top 25 team. Not arguing they are. My issue is someone saying SDSU, SIU, UNH, etc... are clearly more deserving when if you look past the actual record there is a real debate to be had. That's all.

Nobody said SIU was more deserving, even though, as you say, there is debate to be had.

[kalm]

If NAU is under-rated would that make ISUr overrated? Just remember this, EIU almost lost to ISUb. ISUb barley lost to Liberty who got beat by 3rd year program Kennesaw St. I guess I just do not see how the EIU win looks good when thinking about how they barely beat ISUb which is a middle of the road team in the FCS.

Again, fair points. I didn't say the EIU win looked good just that it looked better.

[kalm]

are you saying Illinois State has no bad losses? Because both of the last 2 games we’re bad losses.

I meant they haven't lost to bad teams...nit picker!

[cx500d]

Here are the correct answers:
1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Richmond Spiders
12: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: Monmouth Hawks
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Weber State Wildcats
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

cx500d

The Most Significant Win: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[BisonTru]

Here are the correct answers:
1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Youngstown State Penguins
6: Wofford Terriers
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Elon Phoenix
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Richmond Spiders
12: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Stony Brook Seawolves
18: Samford Bulldogs
19: Monmouth Hawks
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Weber State Wildcats
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
25: Northern Iowa Panthers

cx500d

The Most Significant Win: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

Southern Utah below Weber State and no Eastern Washington at all. xeyebrowx

[cx500d]

Southern Utah below Weber State and no Eastern Washington at all. xeyebrowx


GDAMMIT...Second week in a row I left out EWU. I had them in there, but I must have inadvertently deselected them when I was reshuffling....

[mvemjsunpx]

I meant they haven't lost to bad teams...nit picker!

SIU certainly isn't a good team, and ISU lost to them by 35.

[BisonTru]

Based off AGS here is how the selection would go.



Seeds







1
James Madison
CAA





2
North Dakota St
MVFC





3
South Dakota
AL #1





4
Jacksonville St
OVC

Teams



5
Wofford
Southern

CAA
6


6
Central Arkansas
Southland

MVFC
5


7
Western Illinois
AL #2

Big Sky
2


8
Eastern Washington
Big Sky

SoCon
3






Southland
3


At large



OVC
1


3
Youngstown St


Big South
1


4
Sam Houston St


Patroit
1


5
Elon


NEC
1


6
Richmond


Pioneer
1


7
Western Carolina






8
South Dakota St






9
Villanova






10
Samford






11
Northern Arizona






12
Stony Brook






13
Delaware






14
McNeese St














Big South
Monmouth






Patroit
Colgate






NEC
Duquesne






Pioneer
San Diego














First Four Out
Montana







Weber St







New Hampshire







Southern Utah














Next Four Out
Albany







Illinois St







Northern Iowa







Nicholls St








The Big Sky only getting two teams, but they have 3 teams in the first four out.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

GDAMMIT...Second week in a row I left out EWU. I had them in there, but I must have inadvertently deselected them when I was reshuffling....

I did this too. Doh! This year has had me messed up more than most with my ballots. Other than the top 5 or so, there are a lot of fluctuations from week to week. Those that did well OOC are stinking it up in conference play, and vice versa. Lots of weird stuff to track. Collectively we somehow get it done though I guess.

EWU should get a bump for sure next week unless they lose.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I did this too. Doh! This year has had me messed up more than most with my ballots. Other than the top 5 or so, there are a lot of fluctuations from week to week. Those that did well OOC are stinking it up in conference play, and vice versa. Lots of weird stuff to track. Collectively we somehow get it done though I guess.

EWU should get a bump for sure next week unless they lose.

I did not catch cx's which sucks but I did catch yours and you did not reply so your ballot was pulled from the vote.

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I did not catch cx's which sucks but I did catch yours and you did not reply so your ballot was pulled from the vote.

Understood. Timing gets tricky being on the other side of the planet. I did check my e-mail to make sure everything was fine, but your message came in after. I'll keep trying to improve my attention to detail. xdrunkyx

[POD Knows]

Flame away losers

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 11:19:30

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Richmond Spiders
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Western Carolina Catamounts
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Samford Bulldogs
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Northern Iowa Panthers
25: McNeese State Cowboys

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference


I wanted to drop SDSU farther but they have way too much talent to be as bad as they appear to be, I hope they prove me wrong and are as bad as they appear to be. I think I got Weber too high as well but we will see. Thought about SUU, just couldn't pull the trigger yet.

[kalm]

SIU certainly isn't a good team, and ISU lost to them by 35.

I can see reading comprehension has taken a hit around here. xlolx I didn't define SIU as a good team either.

Yes, ISU's loss by 35 to SIU was a bad loss to a not good team. They also have a bad 3 score loss to a good NAU team. In those two games they are -8 in turnover margin with 5 of those being Jacob Kolbe picks. Spack is a really good coach so we'll see if he can turn that around.

(vindictively hoping now that ISUr, SIU, and and NAU all go on a streak:D)

[kalm]

Flame away losers

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 11:19:30

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Richmond Spiders
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Western Carolina Catamounts
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Samford Bulldogs
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Northern Iowa Panthers
25: McNeese State Cowboys

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference


I wanted to drop SDSU farther but they have way too much talent to be as bad as they appear to be, I hope they prove me wrong and are as bad as they appear to be. I think I got Weber too high as well but we will see. Thought about SUU, just couldn't pull the trigger yet.

Pretty solid work there, Podly.

[Professor Chaos]

I can see reading comprehension has taken a hit around here. xlolx I didn't define SIU as a good team either.

Yes, ISU's loss by 35 to SIU was a bad loss to a not good team. They also have a bad 3 score loss to a good NAU team. In those two games they are -8 in turnover margin with 5 of those being Jacob Kolbe picks. Spack is a really good coach so we'll see if he can turn that around.

(vindictively hoping now that ISUr, SIU, and and NAU all go on a streak:D)
I honestly don't think SIU is much worse than NAU based on what I've seen from both so far.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I honestly don't think SIU is much worse than NAU based on what I've seen from both so far.



This here

[GoBlueHens83]

Flame away losers

Hello POD Knows,

We have received your AGS Top 25 vote on 10/15/2017 11:19:30

Your vote is listed below.


1: James Madison Dukes
2: South Dakota Coyotes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Youngstown State Penguins
7: Central Arkansas Bears
8: Western Illinois Leathernecks
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Elon Phoenix
12: Richmond Spiders
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: North Carolina A&T Aggies
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
20: Western Carolina Catamounts
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Samford Bulldogs
23: New Hampshire Wildcats
24: Northern Iowa Panthers
25: McNeese State Cowboys

POD Knows

The Most Significant Win: Northern Iowa Panthers
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference


I wanted to drop SDSU farther but they have way too much talent to be as bad as they appear to be, I hope they prove me wrong and are as bad as they appear to be. I think I got Weber too high as well but we will see. Thought about SUU, just couldn't pull the trigger yet.

Good overall. But shouldn't these two be switched?

[Mayville Bison]

1: South Dakota Coyotes
2: James Madison Dukes
3: North Dakota State Bison
4: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Western Illinois Leathernecks
8: Eastern Washington Eagles
9: Youngstown State Penguins
10: Sam Houston State Bearkats
11: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
12: Elon Phoenix
13: Samford Bulldogs
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Villanova Wildcats
16: Richmond Spiders
17: North Carolina A&T Aggies
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: Western Carolina Catamounts
20: Montana Grizzlies
21: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
22: Weber State Wildcats
23: Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
24: McNeese State Cowboys
25: Nicholls State Colonels

Mayville Bison

The Most Significant Win: Southern Utah Thunderbirds
The Most Significant Loss: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
Which Conference Does Your Team Play in?: Missouri Valley Football Conference

[PantherRob82]

Good overall. But shouldn't these two be switched?

I don’t always think the winner has to be placed above, but when you have them back to back and the game was so recent.

[ElCid]

I don’t always think the winner has to be placed above, but when you have them back to back and the game was so recent.

Exactly. You have to take a lot else into account when this type of thing happens. Like home/away and the luck factor. Or other intangibles. Any injuries, how many road games in a row, weather, etc. There are lots of factors at work here. Just because a team beats another it does not mean they are better overall, but just for that one game, on one day. I am sometimes surprised when people are adamant about ranking teams based on one h2h regardless of other factors. It may very well be warranted, but not always.

[dbackjon]

I honestly don't think SIU is much worse than NAU based on what I've seen from both so far.

Debatable. NAU didn't play two cupcakes like SIU did in OOC (SIU played two of the worst teams in FCS in MVSU and SEMO), while NAU played WIU (5-1) and ISUr (4-2))

Also a reason why NAU should be ranked well ahead of Montana - Montana's OOC was even worse (if possible - Valpo and Savannah State.

[Professor Chaos]

Debatable. NAU didn't play two cupcakes like SIU did in OOC (SIU played two of the worst teams in FCS in MVSU and SEMO), while NAU played WIU (5-1) and ISUr (4-2))

Also a reason why NAU should be ranked well ahead of Montana - Montana's OOC was even worse (if possible - Valpo and Savannah State.
I think NAU is better than SIU but I don't think it's by any big margin. I had NAU at #20 in my last poll ballot and SIU is just on my watch list.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is I don't think you can look at Illinois St's loss to SIU being any worse than their loss to NAU. Both were butt kickings that shouldn't happen if Illinois St is supposed to be a top 25 and playoff team this year (which it sure doesn't look like they are right now).

[GoBlueHens83]

Exactly. You have to take a lot else into account when this type of thing happens. Like home/away and the luck factor. Or other intangibles. Any injuries, how many road games in a row, weather, etc. There are lots of factors at work here. Just because a team beats another it does not mean they are better overall, but just for that one game, on one day. I am sometimes surprised when people are adamant about ranking teams based on one h2h regardless of other factors. It may very well be warranted, but not always.

I don't disagree with any of that. But when you have them one after another, 2 weeks after the game, loser ranked higher it looks odd.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Understood. Timing gets tricky being on the other side of the planet. I did check my e-mail to make sure everything was fine, but your message came in after. I'll keep trying to improve my attention to detail. xdrunkyx

It does not count as a miss though just so we don't have a misunderstanding there. You can also just give me premissoun to fix what looks like an error as a default if you don't reply after a couple of hours or whatever as well and I will just do that for you....if I catch it which is doesn't always hapen so it is still important for you to compare to your spreadsheet.

[dbackjon]

I think NAU is better than SIU but I don't think it's by any big margin. I had NAU at #20 in my last poll ballot and SIU is just on my watch list.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is I don't think you can look at Illinois St's loss to SIU being any worse than their loss to NAU. Both were butt kickings that shouldn't happen if Illinois St is supposed to be a top 25 and playoff team this year (which it sure doesn't look like they are right now).

Gotcha

[Twentysix]

1: James Madison Dukes
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Jacksonville State Gamecocks
4: South Dakota Coyotes
5: Wofford Terriers
6: Western Illinois Leathernecks
7: Sam Houston State Bearkats
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Eastern Washington Eagles
10: Elon Phoenix
11: North Carolina A&T Aggies
12: McNeese State Cowboys
13: Western Carolina Catamounts
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Richmond Spiders
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Weber State Wildcats
18: New Hampshire Wildcats
19: Samford Bulldogs
20: Stony Brook Seawolves
21: Montana Grizzlies
22: Dartmouth Big Green
23: Eastern Illinois Panthers
24: Illinois State Redbirds
25: North Carolina Central Eagles


EDIT; crap, I left out YSU....meant to have them @ #18, bump the others down one.....xshakefistx

What? YSU @18?? they took your #2 to overtime and have otherwise dominated. They have some losses, but they look top 10 to me.

But what do I know, I don't vote :p.

[UNIFanSince1983]

What? YSU @18?? they took your #2 to overtime and have otherwise dominated. They have some losses, but they look top 10 to me.

But what do I know, I don't vote :p.

Lest we forget that is 2 spots behind a team they absolutely dominated just a couple weeks ago.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

What? YSU @18?? they took your #2 to overtime and have otherwise dominated. They have some losses, but they look top 10 to me.

But what do I know, I don't vote :p.

I have YSU in my Top 10 but they need to win some games. If they lose to UNI to fall to 3-4 I might drop them darn near out of my poll. Then if they win out and finish 7-4 they'll probably work their way near my Top 10 given their then body of work.

This really is a monster game for YSU. The Panthers will be gunning for them in the dome....

I don't like Pelini but I do pull for YSU. I'm still hoping to get to a game out there this year.

[Coyote Fan]

What? YSU @18?? they took your #2 to overtime and have otherwise dominated. They have some losses, but they look top 10 to me.

But what do I know, I don't vote :p.

I would hardly say they dominated other then the NDSU game considering they lost 2 other games. Maybe a loss counts as a domination, who knows.

[dbackjon]

What? YSU @18?? they took your #2 to overtime and have otherwise dominated. They have some losses, but they look top 10 to me.

But what do I know, I don't vote :p.

YSU has three wins

1) Robert Morris
2) Central Connecticut State
3) SDSU

Yes, they have three close losses to good teams, but hard to say they have any quality wins.

MVFC fanboys will argue SDSU is a quality win, at 4-2, same as ISUr, but they have played a fairly soft schedule to date (Duquesne, Drake, and only decent non-con a 4-point win over 2-4 Montana State)

[TheKingpin28]

YSU has three wins

1) Robert Morris
2) Central Connecticut State
3) SDSU

Yes, they have three close losses to good teams, but hard to say they have any quality wins.

MVFC fanboys will argue SDSU is a quality win, at 4-2, same as ISUr, but they have played a fairly soft schedule to date (Duquesne, Drake, and only decent non-con a 4-point win over 2-4 Montana State)

Besides blatant homerism, no one would argue ISUr as a "quality win" as of right now. SDSU, has gone bipolar on us so there is honestly no way to judge how they are right now.

[semobison]

YSU has three wins

1) Robert Morris
2) Central Connecticut State
3) SDSU

Yes, they have three close losses to good teams, but hard to say they have any quality wins.

MVFC fanboys will argue SDSU is a quality win, at 4-2, same as ISUr, but they have played a fairly soft schedule to date (Duquesne, Drake, and only decent non-con a 4-point win over 2-4 Montana State)

And they lost to:
1. FBS Pitt in OT.
2. #3 USD on a last second FG.
3. #2 NDSU in OT.

I wouldn't call that a soft schedule. At some point they need to start winning but looking at those close losses to very good teams puts them in at least the top 10 IMO.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Besides blatant homerism, no one would argue ISUr as a "quality win" as of right now. SDSU, has gone bipolar on us so there is honestly no way to judge how they are right now.


SDSU cannot run the ball or stop it.

They way they look now, no way they beat the Bison, USD or Ill State.

Now things could change. We'll see.

[dbackjon]

Besides blatant homerism, no one would argue ISUr as a "quality win" as of right now. SDSU, has gone bipolar on us so there is honestly no way to judge how they are right now.

The way they have played last two games, agreed. But are they really that much different than the cup-cake inflated 4-2 of SDSU?

[dbackjon]

And they lost to:
1. FBS Pitt in OT.
2. #3 USD on a last second FG.
3. #2 NDSU in OT.

I wouldn't call that a soft schedule. At some point they need to start winning but looking at those close losses to very good teams puts them in at least the top 10 IMO.

So style points for losing?

[wcugrad95]

If a team plays a really tough schedule and loses every game by 1 point, are they a good team or a winless team? I guess technically they could be both, but I think in the end you have to win some games. And if I am ranking what is more important, quality wins have to trump any kind of loss by a wide margin. One of the other posters commented about them dropping down now with the opportunity to win some tough games and move up, and that seems pretty reasonable.

[TheKingpin28]

SDSU cannot run the ball or stop it.

They way they look now, no way they beat the Bison, USD or Ill State.

Now things could change. We'll see.

When have they been able to play football? :D


The way they have played last two games, agreed. But are they really that much different than the cup-cake inflated 4-2 of SDSU?

I honestly do not believe ISUr is a quality win and if SDSU does not murder Missery State, well then I think they have some bigger issues to worry about.

[dbackjon]

If a team plays a really tough schedule and loses every game by 1 point, are they a good team or a winless team? I guess technically they could be both, but I think in the end you have to win some games. And if I am ranking what is more important, quality wins have to trump any kind of loss by a wide margin. One of the other posters commented about them dropping down now with the opportunity to win some tough games and move up, and that seems pretty reasonable.

That's reasonable.

Similarly, ranking NAU 15-18 right now is good. NAU has games against UC-Davis, Montana, Southern Utah (plus Mt State and Idaho State) left, plenty of opportunity to move up if they win.

[centennial]

Agreed. But apparently other voters had trouble finding worthy alternatives. IIRC, I voted them in 19th, UNI at 23. YSU shouldn't lose another game. That's a murder's row the Guins have been through.


So style points for losing?

This is ridiculous. They are national runners up. Almost best 2 top 3 teams and a P5 team. They would be easy favorites vs NAU.

[semobison]

So style points for losing?

Results are important. It's not always that you lost but how and who you lost to. It's why NC A&T is not in the top 5,

[clenz]

Results are important. It's not always that you lost but how and who you lost to. It's why NC A&T is not in the top 5,
YSU would run through NCAT's with an average MOV of 40.

Does that make YSU a better than than they are with their current resume?

Nope. Why should it cause them to be ranked higher/lower?

[caribbeanhen]

I don't disagree with any of that. But when you have them one after another, 2 weeks after the game, loser ranked higher it looks odd.

yes sir that's a no-brainer just put the winner on top of the loser

[Professor Chaos]

So style points for losing?
Yep. Until they lose to someone they shouldn't (like UNI this weekend) they've done everything I'd expect a top 5-10 team to do with their schedule.

[Cocky]

And they lost to:
1. FBS Pitt in OT.
2. #3 USD on a last second FG.
3. #2 NDSU in OT.

I wouldn't call that a soft schedule. At some point they need to start winning but looking at those close losses to very good teams puts them in at least the top 10 IMO.
Pitt sucks
SD beat Bowling Green who sucks, Drake who is 3-3, ND who is 2-5, WIU who has beaten UNI and ISUb who is ISUb.
NDSU who has beaten EWU and teams who would struggle in the OVC, Southland and SOCON.

For the record YSU is in my top 10 but justifying a lower ranking woulf be easy.

[Professor Chaos]

Pitt sucks
SD beat Bowling Green who sucks, Drake who is 3-3, ND who is 2-5, WIU who has beaten UNI and ISUb who is ISUb.
NDSU who has beaten EWU and teams who would struggle in the OVC, Southland and SOCON.

For the record YSU is in my top 10 but justifying a lower ranking who be easy.
You'll always end up with a bunch of garbage wins when you get into the 3rd level of they "only" beat Team X who only beat Team Y who only beat Team Z. It's easy to argue YSU as high as #5 too.

[semobison]

Pitt sucks
SD beat Bowling Green who sucks, Drake who is 3-3, ND who is 2-5, WIU who has beaten UNI and ISUb who is ISUb.
NDSU who has beaten EWU and teams who would struggle in the OVC, Southland and SOCON.

For the record YSU is in my top 10 but justifying a lower ranking who be easy.

Sooo...your saying...not sure what your saying...NDSU and USD not top 5?? IMO who and how Y-town lost to tells me more about them than how and who they beat!

[Cocky]

Sooo...your saying...not sure what your saying...NDSU and USD not top 5?? IMO who and how Y-town lost to tells me more about them than how and who they beat!
Saying you can justify anything. Rank them where you believe they belong.

[Thumper 76]

YSU has three wins

1) Robert Morris
2) Central Connecticut State
3) SDSU

Yes, they have three close losses to good teams, but hard to say they have any quality wins.

MVFC fanboys will argue SDSU is a quality win, at 4-2, same as ISUr, but they have played a fairly soft schedule to date (Duquesne, Drake, and only decent non-con a 4-point win over 2-4 Montana State)

This MVFC fanboy **** is total crap. The MVFC fanboys have SDSU lower than people from other conferences on average. I know cause I’ve been watching since I think SDSU at 15 is stupid as hell. In the poll at all is stupid but at least debatable. So shove that up your pipe and smoke it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kemo]

This MVFC fanboy **** is total crap. The MVFC fanboys have SDSU lower than people from other conferences on average. I know cause I’ve been watching since I think SDSU at 15 is stupid as hell. In the poll at all is stupid but at least debatable. So shove that up your pipe and smoke it.


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SDSU wasn't in my Top 25 this week. Anyone who saw that game on Saturday would likely feel the same.

[POD Knows]

Good overall. But shouldn't these two be switched?i don't know. Maybe. I thought about dropping Weber in back of both of them initially. There are a lot of teams bunched up from the 10 spot to 25

[PantherRob82]

SDSU wasn't in my Top 25 this week. Anyone who saw that game on Saturday would likely feel the same.
You guys did look awful.

[Thumper 76]

You guys did look awful.

Yeah, yeah that’s putting it mildly. The first possessions of the game really tell the story of the whole game IMO. I guess I could see how someone could MAYBE think it was a game where everything that could go wrong did and it’s not a true showing of SDSU as a team, but not to me. This team needs to do some soul searching. They have the talent to be a serious national championship contender and have yet to show it (unless someone really thinks SIU is a mid teens team).

The first half of the game:

SDSU goes 3 and out
UNI goes 3 and out
SDSU fumbles the punt
UNI drives 15 yds and kicks a fg
SDSU throws an INT that’s returned to the 3
UNI scores a TD
SDSU goes 3 and out and smashes a 30 yd punt
UNI drives 48 yds for a TD
SDSU fumbles the kickoff
UNI turns over on downs
SDSU goes 73 yds for a TD, but misses the xp
UNI fumbles
SDSU misses a fg
UNI punts
SDSU drives down and muffs the snap on a fg
UNI kneels to end the half

Gee, can’t imagine why folks didn’t want to sit through a pretty damn vicious wind and freezing rain to watch the second half and Hobo Day festivities happening all over town.....

I just don’t think anyone really knows how truly awful SDSU was in that game, but especially the first half. Does anyone honestly look at that without the name SDSU in there and think that’s a top 25 team? Replace it with someone like Idaho St or Georgetown and see if you’re thinking that’s worthy of the top 25. On the bright side Goedert turned 4 receptions into 120 yds and a TD. Not bad for a TE.

So really UNI probably should have been up by more, but SDSU basically gift wrapped that game for them in the first half. Like I said before, I’m not sure what the hell I watched this last Saturday, but it sure didn’t look like football. But I’m just the sandbagging Jackrabbit fan right?


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[Houndawg]

I honestly don't think SIU is much worse than NAU based on what I've seen from both so far.

They've shown well in 4/6 games. Mediocre against a mediocre UNI, not a good loss at home, and blown out by SDSU. The scores don't all reflect it but we're better on defense - actually have a pretty good back seven, our issue is that our DL is three freshman and a sophomore, with three more freshmen in the rotation. Nick Hill is doing a good job.

[kalm]

Yeah, yeah that’s putting it mildly. The first possessions of the game really tell the story of the whole game IMO. I guess I could see how someone could MAYBE think it was a game where everything that could go wrong did and it’s not a true showing of SDSU as a team, but not to me. This team needs to do some soul searching. They have the talent to be a serious national championship contender and have yet to show it (unless someone really thinks SIU is a mid teens team).

The first half of the game:

SDSU goes 3 and out
UNI goes 3 and out
SDSU fumbles the punt
UNI drives 15 yds and kicks a fg
SDSU throws an INT that’s returned to the 3
UNI scores a TD
SDSU goes 3 and out and smashes a 30 yd punt
UNI drives 48 yds for a TD
SDSU fumbles the kickoff
UNI turns over on downs
SDSU goes 73 yds for a TD, but misses the xp
UNI fumbles
SDSU misses a fg
UNI punts
SDSU drives down and muffs the snap on a fg
UNI kneels to end the half

Gee, can’t imagine why folks didn’t want to sit through a pretty damn vicious wind and freezing rain to watch the second half and Hobo Day festivities happening all over town.....

I just don’t think anyone really knows how truly awful SDSU was in that game, but especially the first half. Does anyone honestly look at that without the name SDSU in there and think that’s a top 25 team? Replace it with someone like Idaho St or Georgetown and see if you’re thinking that’s worthy of the top 25. On the bright side Goedert turned 4 receptions into 120 yds and a TD. Not bad for a TE.

So really UNI probably should have been up by more, but SDSU basically gift wrapped that game for them in the first half. Like I said before, I’m not sure what the hell I watched this last Saturday, but it sure didn’t look like football. But I’m just the sandbagging Jackrabbit fan right?


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Christian's rushing attempts are down this year. He has 36 compared with 131 total last season. Understandable as he has weapons to throw to and Mangarelli in the backfield but that changes the dynamics of the offense a bit. I remember when Montana State did something similar with Denarius McGhee. Duel threat cornerbacks succeed based on unscripted scrambling capabilities to buy more time or move the chains with their legs. They do it for the first 2 years but by the time they're juniors they are tired of getting hit. They're encouraged to have more patience and slide within the pocket rather than escape but that is a different game that doesn't always lead to the same offensive output.

Not blaming this mentality one bit (it makes sense) or know if that's the case with SDSU this year, just throwing it out there.

[clenz]

Yeah, yeah that’s putting it mildly. The first possessions of the game really tell the story of the whole game IMO. I guess I could see how someone could MAYBE think it was a game where everything that could go wrong did and it’s not a true showing of SDSU as a team, but not to me. This team needs to do some soul searching. They have the talent to be a serious national championship contender and have yet to show it (unless someone really thinks SIU is a mid teens team).

The first half of the game:

So really UNI probably should have been up by more, but SDSU basically gift wrapped that game for them in the first half. Like I said before, I’m not sure what the hell I watched this last Saturday, but it sure didn’t look like football. But I’m just the sandbagging Jackrabbit fan right?


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Look at the second half of the game. SDSU had 176 yards on 5 possession. 145 came on the two TD drives. One was a two play 76 yard drive where UNI busted coverage on Dallas twice.

That second drive was Dallas picking up 45 yards on back to back plays and another 15 was a pass interference penalty. 60 of the 69 yards came on a penalty and 2 passes. That was also when the score was 38-12 and UNI was doing UNI things with prevent defenses. It was at that point I was sure SDSU would still win.

UNI also went into full prevent mode on offense in the second half. Had 207 yards of offense, but it was nothing but runs. UNI ran 21 plays in the third quarter - 17 were runs. In the 4th it was 19 runs in 23 plays. 45 total plays 36 runs. You were there, I wasn't. I didn't really watch it out of protest, which you are aware of. I've watched parts on replay since.

It was a monsoon, so neither offense could do what they do best. SDSU still had 280 yards passing, but it was on 14-35 passing. Big plays due to a combo of broken converge and the SDSU guys being play makers.

I'm not too concerned about the SDSU offense. UNI held SDSU to 52 yards rushing, but when you're down 17-0 in the first 10 minutes of a game and by 4 scores in the second half, running doesn't become a thing that is pressed. Thought it was at 2.5 YPC. Credit to UNI's staff for going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 hybrid. That clearly caused issues for the SDSU offense. They took the two freshman off the field in place of JRs and SRs. The 3-4 was really a 3-3-5. That 4th backer many times was a SR safety playing a nickle hybrid look from what i've read.

I think SDSU can recover quite well, but something about the Jacks just doesn't feel right - even on offense - when watching them. It doesn't really feel like SDSU of the last two years.

[ST_Lawson]

It was a monsoon, so neither offense could do what they do best.

Ok, so time to schedule "fun" weather for when SDSU comes to Macomb.

SDSU fans - you don't mind another blizzard do you? ;)

[semobison]

This MVFC fanboy **** is total crap. The MVFC fanboys have SDSU lower than people from other conferences on average. I know cause I’ve been watching since I think SDSU at 15 is stupid as hell. In the poll at all is stupid but at least debatable. So shove that up your pipe and smoke it.


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What is more amusing is it is coming from a fan whose team is in the Big Lie. We all know about their playoff success!

[Grizalltheway]

What is more amusing is it is coming from a fan whose team is in the Big Lie. We all know about their playoff success!

Yeah because the MVFC has had so much playoff success outside of NDSU.

[Professor Chaos]

Yeah because the MVFC has had so much playoff success outside of NDSU.
4 different MVFC teams not named NDSU have made the quarterfinals or later in the last 2 playoffs. Two of them were knocked out in the quarters by NDSU.

[Grizalltheway]

4 different MVFC teams not named NDSU have made the quarterfinals or later in the last 2 playoffs. Two of them were knocked out in the quarters by NDSU.

That's great, but it's still not on the same level as the CAA during their run of dominance.

[skinny_uncle]

It's nice to know we still have three top 10 teams left on our schedule.

xwhistlex

[skinny_uncle]

Yeah because the MVFC has had so much playoff success outside of NDSU.

Yep. SIU and YSU are the only other Valley shcools with national title trophies in their trophy case. WKU did win a title before they left for the SunBelt.

[Professor Chaos]

That's great, but it's still not on the same level as the CAA during their run of dominance.
Who was trying to compare it to that? I'm saying it's a blind claim that NDSU is the only MVFC team to have success in the playoffs recently. 2011-2013 you would have a point. 2014-now not so much.

[RootinFerDukes]

That's great, but it's still not on the same level as the CAA during their run of dominance.

Numbers for current programs only.

CAA: 5 championships across 4 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.
MVFC: 10 championships across 3 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.

Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, no other MVFC programs have won a title other than them. Youngstown State and Illinois State were runner ups.
Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, Richmond, Villanova and James Madison have won titles, while Delaware and Towson were a runner ups.

To summarize, MVFC recently: 3 teams getting to the title game. CAA recently: five teams getting to the title game.

Its compounded by the fact that no MVFC team has beaten NDSU in the playoffs to date.

[RootinFerDukes]

Yep. SIU and YSU are the only other Valley shcools with national title trophies in their trophy case. WKU did win a title before they left for the SunBelt.

I didn't realize WKU is a former MVFC member. The geographic footprint has really changed over the decades. Any other former MVFC teams win or get to the title game I missed?

[BisonFan02]

Numbers for current programs only.

CAA: 5 championships across 4 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.
MVFC: 10 championships across 3 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.

Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, no other MVFC programs have won a title other than them. Youngstown State and Illinois State were runner ups.
Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, Richmond, Villanova and James Madison have won titles, while Delaware and Towson were a runner ups.

To summarize, MVFC recently: 3 teams getting to the title game. CAA recently: five teams getting to the title game.

Its compounded by the fact that no MVFC team has beaten NDSU in the playoffs to date.

Regionalization

[kalm]

Numbers for current programs only.

CAA: 5 championships across 4 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.
MVFC: 10 championships across 3 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.

Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, no other MVFC programs have won a title other than them. Youngstown State and Illinois State were runner ups.
Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, Richmond, Villanova and James Madison have won titles, while Delaware and Towson were a runner ups.

To summarize, MVFC recently: 3 teams getting to the title game. CAA recently: five teams getting to the title game.

Its compounded by the fact that no MVFC team has beaten NDSU in the playoffs to date.

Right. So take away the Fargo Division of the MVFC and they have around the same number of semifinal appearances, the same amount of title game appearances, and one less title than the Big Lie over the past decade.

GATW was just stirring the pot.

[RootinFerDukes]

Regionalization only applies to north and south dakota exclusively. They don't bother to do it to ANY of the other 48 states.

[Reign of Terrier]

Regionalization: Like that one time Wofford won the Socon autobid and got sent to undefeated Montana; or when they finished 9-2 in the Socon and got sent to #1 seed James Madison

the playoff committee has a long tradition of being a joke; success in the playoffs says more about a team than a conference (lest I remind everyone that Jacksonville State is probably the only OVC team to win a playoff game in the last 15 years, and win many they have)

[kalm]

Regionalization only applies to north and south dakota exclusively. They don't bother to do it to ANY of the other 48 states.

I get the tongue in cheek but regionalization has benighted the CAA in getting home games against weaker conferences in the early rounds and also games against a down Southland Conference before last season.

[Professor Chaos]

Right. So take away the Fargo Division of the MVFC and they have around the same number of semifinal appearances, the same amount of title game appearances, and one less title than the Big Lie over the past decade.

GATW was just stirring the pot.
Take away EWU and no Big Sky teams have made it past the round of 16 since 2012. The CAA is definitely the exception in terms of number of different programs that have been successful over the last few years. All the other conferences have their 1 or 2 big dogs but the MVFC comes closest to the CAA in terms of number of programs that have gone deep in the playoffs.

[JSUSoutherner]

Regionalization: Like that one time Wofford won the Socon autobid and got sent to undefeated Montana; or when they finished 9-2 in the Socon and got sent to #1 seed James Madison

the playoff committee has a long tradition of being a joke; success in the playoffs says more about a team than a conference (lest I remind everyone that Jacksonville State is probably the only OVC team to win a playoff game in the last 15 years, and win many they have)

EIU 2013

[Grizalltheway]

Right. So take away the Fargo Division of the MVFC and they have around the same number of semifinal appearances, the same amount of title game appearances, and one less title than the Big Lie over the past decade.

GATW was just stirring the pot.

I'm bravely fighting the twin injustices of conference homerism and coattail-riding. No need to thank me.

[kalm]

I'm bravely fighting the twin injustices of conference homerism and coattail-riding. No need to thank me.

It's an uphill battle my friend.

[semobison]

Right. So take away the Fargo Division of the MVFC and they have around the same number of semifinal appearances, the same amount of title game appearances, and one less title than the Big Lie over the past decade.

GATW was just stirring the pot.

Since 2011 NDSU, UNI, SDSU, WIU, ISUr, ISUb and YSU have won playoff games. How many Big Lie teams have won in the playoffs in this time period?

[Bison56]

Mine is bigger than yours.

[Reign of Terrier]

EIU 2013

Beating a conference opponent *definitely* doesn't count

[Professor Chaos]

Beating a conference opponent *definitely* doesn't count
Hey now... Tennessee St earned a hard fought playoff victory against non-scholly Butler for the right to face EIU.

[wcugrad95]

I know the SoCon isn't in this debate, but historically speaking it was an absolute beast back "in the day" (80s through late 2000s). Some of the main teams like Georgia Southern (6 total tiles and 2 while in SoCon) and Appalachian State (3 back-to-back-to-back) are now gone, but other teams like Furman (1 National Championship and 2 other title-game appearances), Wofford/Citadel/UTC (multiple playoff wins), and even WCU (title-game appearance a zillion years ago) have some long-standing success at the FCS level.

Specific to more recent times, SoCon teams winning playoff games since 2011:
2011 - Georgia Southern (2; lost in Semis)
2012 - Georgia Southern (2; lost in Semis) and Wofford (1)
2013 - Furman (1)
2014 - UTC (1)
2015 - UTC (1) and Citadel (1)
2016 - Wofford (2) and UTC (1)

No recent championship appearances, but still that is 5 different teams with at least 1 playoff win in that time. The conference has a perception of being down because we don't have App State or GSU winning titles, but I'd say the conference is about as balanced as it has been in some time and a 5-3 kind of record in the SoCon is not way off from a similar kind of record in the "power" conferences. I typically see the SoCon listed as the 3rd or 4th toughest conference, so why would our 3rd and 4th place teams not also be considered for playoff berths if the 4th and 5th and even 6th place teams are getting consideration from these other conferences?

[JSUSoutherner]

I know the SoCon isn't in this debate, but historically speaking it was an absolute beast back "in the day" (80s through late 2000s). Some of the main teams like Georgia Southern (6 total tiles and 2 while in SoCon) and Appalachian State (3 back-to-back-to-back) are now gone, but other teams like Furman (1 National Championship and 2 other title-game appearances), Wofford/Citadel/UTC (multiple playoff wins), and even WCU (title-game appearance a zillion years ago) have some long-standing success at the FCS level.

Specific to more recent times, SoCon teams winning playoff games since 2011:
2011 - Georgia Southern (2; lost in Semis)
2012 - Georgia Southern (2; lost in Semis) and Wofford (1)
2013 - Furman (1)
2014 - UTC (1)
2015 - UTC (1) and Citadel (1)
2016 - Wofford (2) and UTC (1)

No recent championship appearances, but still that is 5 different teams with at least 1 playoff win in that time. The conference has a perception of being down because we don't have App State or GSU winning titles, but I'd say the conference is about as balanced as it has been in some time and a 5-3 kind of record in the SoCon is not way off from a similar kind of record in the "power" conferences. I typically see the SoCon listed as the 3rd or 4th toughest conference, so why would our 3rd and 4th place teams not also be considered for playoff berths if the 4th and 5th and even 6th place teams are getting consideration from these other conferences?

Wofford only won 1 game last year.


Beating a conference opponent *definitely* doesn't count

[Reign of Terrier]

Wofford only won 1 game last year.

Wofford's won 3 playoff games since 2011. We beat the Citadel and Charleston Southern in 2012; We beat New Hampshire in 2012.

We've only been one and done twice (knock on wood); one was the infamous no-knee game (that team was statistically our worst playoff team) in 2011, the other was against #1 seed/ranked JMU in 2008.

So on average, when we make the playoffs we win more games than the rest of the OVC has won (sans JSU) in the last 15-20 years. I didn't bring up Wofford originally, just have to point out the technicality. It was a huge meme on the board 5-6 years ago about how the OVC and MEAC were just bad at winning playoff games.

[Mayville Bison]

I'm bravely fighting the twin injustices of conference homerism and coattail-riding. No need to thank me.

MVFC playoff records since 2010 including NDSU
OVC 5-0 100%
Big South 3-0 100%
Pioneer 2-0 100%
NEC 1-0 100%
SoCon 8-2 80%
Southland 4-1 80%
CAA 6-3 67%
Big Sky 7-5 58%
MVFC 7-7 50%
Patriot 1-1 50%
Total 44-19 70%

MVFC playoff records since 2010 not including NDSU
OVC 4-0 100%
Big South 1-0 100%
Pioneer 1-0 100%
SoCon 4-2 67%
Big Sky 5-4 56%
CAA 2-2 50%
MVFC 2-2 50%
Southland 1-1 50%
Patriot 0-1 0%
Total 20-12 63%

70% win percentage with NDSU compared to 63% win percentage taking out all NDSU games. Seems pretty damn good for a conference that you claim to be coat-tail riding, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument.

[JSUSoutherner]

Wofford's won 3 playoff games since 2011. We beat the Citadel and Charleston Southern in 2012; We beat New Hampshire in 2012.

That means Wofford is 2-2 since 2011.

[Reign of Terrier]

That means Wofford is 2-2 since 2011.

3-2 if you go back a single year to 2010 and we're serious about winning/losing to conference opponents.

I can remember who we beat too;)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Regionalization: Like that one time Wofford won the Socon autobid and got sent to undefeated Montana; or when they finished 9-2 in the Socon and got sent to #1 seed James Madison

the playoff committee has a long tradition of being a joke; success in the playoffs says more about a team than a conference (lest I remind everyone that Jacksonville State is probably the only OVC team to win a playoff game in the last 15 years, and win many they have)

It doesn't always work that way, it works in the way that it fits the rules they are given the best. In any instance where you try and do the brackets yourself on the same rules they are given you will come up with similar results...so stating they are a joke is pretty off base considering they do what they can with they are given as reles and so forth.

Now we get to play in fantasy land and state that we want this and we want that and figure out how they don't know what they are doing based on that of course.

[cx500d]

Yeah because the MVFC has had so much playoff success outside of NDSU.

Our third place team went to the natty last year...I’ll state went to the natty two a couple years ago... just sayin


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[JSUSoutherner]

3-2 if you go back a single year to 2010 and we're serious about winning/losing to conference opponents.

I can remember who we beat too;)

Wouldn't mind a rematch.

[Grizalltheway]

Our third place team went to the natty last year...I’ll state went to the natty two a couple years ago... just sayin


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I'm not saying they haven't been more successful than the Big Sky as a whole, just that it's not like it's 4 MVFC teams in the semis ever year. And the team I actually care about has done pretty well against teams not named NDSU in the regular season and playoffs.

[cx500d]

I'm not saying they haven't been more successful than the Big Sky as a whole, just that it's not like it's 4 MVFC teams in the semis ever year. And the team I actually care about has done pretty well against teams not named NDSU in the regular season and playoffs.

Well yeah, thats what happens with regionalization and we end up playing each other yet again in the tourney...Ask SDSU

[grizband]

Imagine how much playoff success Montana and SDSU could have....if they didn't have to play each other, funneled into NDSU, every year xlolx

[TheKingpin28]

Imagine how much playoff success Montana and SDSU could have....if they didn't have to play each other, funneled into NDSU, every year xlolx

Don't let the CAA or other groups see this. It will be ridiculed with resentment.

[Gangtackle11]

Don't let the CAA or other groups see this. It will be ridiculed with resentment.

Go take Fido for a walk.

[DirtyDukes]

Numbers for current programs only.

CAA: 5 championships across 4 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.
MVFC: 10 championships across 3 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.

Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, no other MVFC programs have won a title other than them. Youngstown State and Illinois State were runner ups.
Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, Richmond, Villanova and James Madison have won titles, while Delaware and Towson were a runner ups.

To summarize, MVFC recently: 3 teams getting to the title game. CAA recently: five teams getting to the title game.

Its compounded by the fact that no MVFC team has beaten NDSU in the playoffs to date.

Man I've always been trying to place you but somehow reading that post made me realize exactly who you are. How have I missed it all these years?!@?!

[PantherRob82]

Man I've always been trying to place you but somehow reading that post made me realize exactly who you are. How have I missed it all these years?!@?!

its Ralph. xlolx

[DirtyDukes]

its Ralph. xlolx

This Ralph?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3m7antwCeNhaU/giphy.gif

[BEAR]

This Ralph?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3m7antwCeNhaU/giphy.gif

No...that's Ralphie....xthumbsupx

[Professor Chaos]

Did someone say Ralphie???

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IM-A-BISON.gif

On a semi-related note I never have figured out why a team named the Buffaloes has a Bison for a mascot.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Did someone say Ralphie???

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/IM-A-BISON.gif

On a semi-related note I never have figured out why a team named the Buffaloes has a Bison for a mascot.

Possibly because a Bison is an American buffalo. So they are really the same thing.

[JSUSoutherner]

Possibly because a Bison is an American buffalo. So they are really the same thing.

#ThingsYou'dThinkABisonFanWouldKnow

[Serpentor]

Buffalo... bison... they're all just overgrown moo cows...

[Cocky]

Quit the arguing, everyone knows the OVC is the toughest, roughest and most badass conference around.

[Grizalltheway]

Buffalo... bison... they're all just overgrown moo cows...
At least it's a real animal...

[Professor Chaos]

Possibly because a Bison is an American buffalo. So they are really the same thing.
No such thing as an American buffalo, only an American bison.

These are buffalos:

http://famouswonders.com/wp-content/gallery/ngorongoro-crater/3-buffalos.jpg

[UNIFanSince1983]

The American bison (Bison bison), also commonly known as the American buffalo or simply buffalo

I mean you are right, but I think popular nomenclature would say that is wrong.

[JSUSoutherner]

Quit the arguing, everyone knows the OVC is the toughest, roughest and most badass conference around.
Troof.

JSU and Austin Peay in Frisco.

#Bookit

[clenz]

The American bison (Bison bison), also commonly known as the American buffalo or simply buffalo

I mean you are right, but I think popular nomenclature would say that is wrong.
It's like people that think mountain lions, panthers, cougars, pumas and catamounts are all different and that there is such a thing as a black panther.

They aren't. It's the exact same thing known by a different name.

Also, no such thing as a black panther. I have grown to dislike our mascots. "Black panthers" are melanistic jaguars. They aren't even actually black. It's a jaguar with very dark fur and pending the light they look black.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rz9WQCy7BLQ/TY3aEkBKmLI/AAAAAAAAjmg/FJX4ays32bI/s1600/melanism.jpg


Panthers/cougars/mountain lions/pumas/catamounts come in one color and one color variation only - tan. One could say that since it's just a melanin genetic vairation they do exist, but there has never been a verified melanistic panther. They have all been either large house cats or jaguars.

The face of a panther vs face of a jaguar
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213412/4387857------+%23+-++0000000000000000+cougar+vs+leopard+_..png


Significant difference.

Also significant size difference. Jaguars are MUCH bigger, stockier and have more muscle. Their claws and fangs are about and inch or two longer as well.


A bison and a buffalo are different. However, for every day lehman language they are considered the same name in the Americas. It's the same reason melanistic jaguars are called panthers. People are too dumb to know the difference, so it became a thing before people could educate anyone.

[JSUSoutherner]

It's like people that think mountain lions, panthers, cougars, pumas and catamounts are all different and that there is such a thing as a black panther.

They aren't. It's the exact same thing known by a different name.

Also, no such thing as a black panther. I have grown to dislike our mascots. "Black panthers" are melanistic jaguars. They aren't even actually black. It's a jaguar with very dark fur and pending the light they look black.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Rz9WQCy7BLQ/TY3aEkBKmLI/AAAAAAAAjmg/FJX4ays32bI/s1600/melanism.jpg


Panthers/cougars/mountain lions/pumas/catamounts come in one color and one color variation only - tan. One could say that since it's just a melanin genetic vairation they do exist, but there has never been a verified melanistic panther. They have all been either large house cats or jaguars.

The face of a panther vs face of a jaguar
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213412/4387857------+%23+-++0000000000000000+cougar+vs+leopard+_..png


Significant difference.

Also significant size difference. Jaguars are MUCH bigger, stockier and have more muscle. Their claws and fangs are about and inch or two longer as well.


A bison and a buffalo are different. However, for every day lehman language they are considered the same name in the Americas. It's the same reason melanistic jaguars are called panthers. People are too dumb to know the difference, so it became a thing before people could educate anyone.

Black Panthers aren't a thing?

Then how do you explain this?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/1a9cb5e160c6747b216c492cc6ffd352.jpg

[clenz]

Numbers for current programs only.

CAA: 5 championships across 4 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.
MVFC: 10 championships across 3 programs. 5 programs have reached the title game at least once.

Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, no other MVFC programs have won a title other than them. Youngstown State and Illinois State were runner ups.
Since NDSU has joined the MVFC, Richmond, Villanova and James Madison have won titles, while Delaware and Towson were a runner ups.

To summarize, MVFC recently: 3 teams getting to the title game. CAA recently: five teams getting to the title game.

Its compounded by the fact that no MVFC team has beaten NDSU in the playoffs to date.
What's funny is how easy this is to spin with 1 result

NDSU doesn't score with 27 seconds left in the title game vs ISU and all of a sudden the MVFC has 10 titles across 4 programs to the CAAs 5's titles across 4 programs.

It's also very clever to leave WKU out of it.

It's also very clever that many CAA fans - specifically Superman who leads this charge - include titles won by the A10 or Yankee conference yet will fight tooth and nail that the CAA IS NOT the same conference as the A10 and Yankee. I've had that battle many times.

If that is the case the CAA has 3 titles between 3 programs.

So the MVFC/Gateway has 11 titles by 4 programs. The CAA has 1 titles by 3 programs.

AND

The MVFC is the only conference to hold both spots in the title game, so even if the MVFC team that won that title lost that game it becomes 11 titles from 5 programs.

[clenz]

Black Panthers aren't a thing?

Then how do you explain this?


It's like a Bearkat. Doesn't really exist but people talk like it does.

[TheKingpin28]

its Ralph. xlolx

Many keks were had.

[TheKingpin28]

Quit the arguing, everyone knows the OVC is the toughest, roughest and most badass conference around.

0/10

weak bait is weak

[BisonTru]

It's like a Bearkat. Doesn't really exist but people talk like it does.

What about this beautiful creature?

http://kids.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/kids/photos/animals/Mammals/A-G/binturong-climbing.adapt.945.1.jpg

[clenz]

What about this beautiful creature?

http://kids.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/kids/photos/animals/Mammals/A-G/binturong-climbing.adapt.945.1.jpg

That’s a binturong, also known as a bearcat, which is stupid because it’s not a member of the feline or bear family. It’s actually a civet and closely related to meerkats and mongooses.

They live only in SE Asia.

A bearkat is completely made up

[Bison56]

Troof.

JSU and Austin Peay in Frisco.

#Bookit

Why would 2 teams go to Frisco to watch the championship game?

[JSUSoutherner]

Why would 2 teams go to Frisco to watch the championship game?
Cause we already bought our tickets. xnodx

[ST_Lawson]

No such thing as an American buffalo, only an American bison.

Correct answer right here.
When European settlers first came to North America, they saw the Bison out on the prairies and thought that they looked like they'd be related to the water buffalo or african/cape buffalo, so they called them buffalo or American buffalo. However, upon further examination, it was realized that they are much more closely related to the European bison/wisent. They're not a member of the buffalo family, but are actually bison.

However, this doesn't quite work the same way with "bison":
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
(that's a grammatically correct sentence btw)

[Serpentor]

A bearkat is completely made up

So are dragons and Jersey devils, and still sports teams have those as mascots...

[clenz]

So are dragons and Jersey devils, and still sports teams have those as mascots...
Wait...

Do you think it's the "New" "Jersey Devils"?

Please tell me that's what you think.

[Serpentor]

Wait...

Do you think it's the "New" "Jersey Devils"?

Please tell me that's what you think.

Yes, sounds like something that doesn't really exist but people who live in the New Jersey Pine Barrens talk like it does.

[Grizalltheway]

Wait...

Do you think it's the "New" "Jersey Devils"?

Please tell me that's what you think.

The Jersey Devil did in fact originate in New Jersey, not the island in Europe.

[clenz]

The Jersey Devil did in fact originate in New Jersey, not the island in Europe.
So what team is using Jersey Devil as a mascot?

[JSUSoutherner]

So what team is using Jersey Devil as a mascot?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Devil

[clenz]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Devil
So...none?

There was one team that did...that was located in Jersey. When it comes to Team names it's Location Nickname thus Jersey Devils was the Devils of Jersey. It was a great plan on it, but it wasn't using it. Just as the New Jersey Devils presently.

[JSUSoutherner]

So...none?

There was one team that did...that was located in Jersey. When it comes to Team names it's Location Nickname thus Jersey Devils was the Devils of Jersey. It was a great plan on it, but it wasn't using it. Just as the New Jersey Devils presently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_Devils

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/f5121ea4ca662d732e3e97513ebbe47f.jpg

[clenz]

They are not the "New" "Jersey Devils"

They are the "New Jersey" "Devils".

Great play on the name, but not the Jersey Devils

Now, if they were the Newark Jersey Devils we'd have a different conversation.

[JSUSoutherner]

They are not the "New" "Jersey Devils"

They are the "New Jersey" "Devils".

Great play on the name, but not the Jersey Devils

Now, if they were the Newark Jersey Devils we'd have a different conversation.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/f8388c66fa6747b535bab7aa7217dede.jpg

[Grizalltheway]

Yeah, no ****. Calling them the New Jersey Jersey Devils would be a bit clunky.

[clenz]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171019/f8388c66fa6747b535bab7aa7217dede.jpg
So...you're saying the same **** over and over and it's still wrong.

They aren't the Jersey Devils.

The answer to my question is still - no one.

[JSUSoutherner]

Yeah, no ****. Calling them the New Jersey Jersey Devils would be a bit clunky.

Maybe it should be the Buffalo Buffalo Bills too.

[clenz]

Maybe it should be the Buffalo Buffalo Bills too.
Again, paying homage with the name is not the same thing as making that the name.

[JSUSoutherner]

Again, paying homage with the name is not the same thing as making that the name.

The whole reason they are the New Jersey Devils is because of the Jersey Devil.

I don't understand how you think they can be something else.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Whether they are the Jersey Devils or just the Devils they are both as made up as a Bearkat.

[mvemjsunpx]

Maybe it should be the Buffalo Buffalo Bills too.

Actually, it would be the Orchard Park Buffalo Bills. xcoffeex

[Gangtackle11]

New Jersey Devils play in Newark.

Thus its really the Newark Jersey Devils.

Stop the Madness!! xpeacex

[dbackjon]

Yeah, no ****. Calling them the New Jersey Jersey Devils would be a bit clunky.

What do you want for Christmas?

The new jersey of the new jersey jersey devils, mom

[JSUSoutherner]

Actually, it would be the Orchard Park Buffalo Bills. xcoffeex

You're right!

Orchard Park Bills
East Rutherford Giants
East Rutherford Jets
Arlington Cowboys
Landover Redskins
Santa Clara 49ers
Glendale Cardinals
Carson Chargers

[Grizalltheway]

What do you want for Christmas?

The new jersey of the new jersey jersey devils, mom
Major Major Major Major.

[dbackjon]

You're right!

Orchard Park Bills
East Rutherford Giants
East Rutherford Jets
Arlington Cowboys
Landover Redskins
Santa Clara 49ers
Glendale Cardinals
Carson Chargers

Cardinals are Arizona Cardinals, so they are good.

[JSUSoutherner]

Cardinals are Arizona Cardinals, so they are good.

Good catch. That's why I left the Patriots off. New England and all rather than Boston. My bad.

[dbackjon]

Good catch. That's why I left the Patriots off. New England and all rather than Boston. My bad.

All good.

And soon it will be the Inglewood Rams and Chargers

[POD Knows]

San Diego 1904 FC, greatest freaking sports team name ever.

[TheKingpin28]

I'm just glad that we are finally talking about some hockey. :D

[Bisonoline]

San Diego 1904 FC, greatest freaking sports team name ever.

You lost me?

[Schism55]

San Diego 1904 FC, greatest freaking sports team name ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_pMYJdzFAo

[ST_Lawson]

I'm just glad that we are finally talking about some hockey. :D

hah....keee?.....I don't understand.

[dewey]

hah....keee?.....I don't understand.

Ice is only good for two things. Ice fishing and drinks.

Dewey

[cx500d]

Ice is only good for two things. Ice fishing and drinks.

Dewey

It's fun to do donuts in a car, truck, or snowmobile.

[dewey]

It's fun to do donuts in a car, truck, or snowmobile.Correct. 3 things ice is good for. Like Lawson said the hawww keee is not one.

Dewey

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Thumper 76]

Correct. 3 things ice is good for. Like Lawson said the hawww keee is not one.

Dewey

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

You shut your mouth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheKingpin28]

Correct. 3 things ice is good for. Like Lawson said the hawww keee is not one.

Dewey

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

xflaggedx

[POD Knows]

You lost me?Did you ever see the movie Anchorman? This is the new team name for the soccer club in San Diego


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AIwaSD9Sco

[UNIFanSince1983]

I'm just glad that we are finally talking about some hockey. :D

Well here is a UND fan posing as a NDSU fan.

For shame!

[POD Knows]

You lost me?Oh ****, I see your confusion, I posted my comment on the wrong thread. WTF.

[TheKingpin28]

Well here is a UND fan posing as a NDSU fan.

For shame!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HGMIbA0L1A